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Dogmanencounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Hey everyone, I hope
you're having a great night, and of course, thank you
so much for joining us for another livestream episode of
the show. I really appreciate it. I had originally planned
to bring Carrie back on this week for a Q
and A show, but poor Carrie is really catching it. Unfortunately, adamily,
remember passed away, so now she had to travel out
of state to tend to that to deal with that. Unfortunately,
of course she's going to be in our prayers. We
want nothing but the best for her. But when I
found out that she wasn't going to be able to
record the show this week, and understandably so, I reached
out to you a good man I know named Brian
Terrell with Red Dirt Cryptids. He's been on the show
before on episodes four sixty and four ninety two. I
asked him about coming on to do a live stream
tonight and luckily he agreed, so without any further ado,
let's bring him in here. Now, Brian, thanks so much
for coming back. We really appreciate you doing this.
Speaker 1: Well, I always enjoy Kevin and hanging out with you
for a while.
Speaker 2: Well it's fun, haven't you. It always is, Brian. For
anyone who missed those two shows, episodes four sixty and
four ninety two, please tell them about yourself and also
tell them about Red Dirt Cryptids.
Speaker 1: Well, I for a long time, you know, I had
no idea what I'd seen. I just kind of called
it the wolf Dog, and it wasn't until somewhere around
twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. I kept hearing, you know, people
talking about this dog man thing on podcasts, and I
really didn't know, you know, what they were talking about.
I thought they were talking about some kind of centaur
type creature was half man, half dog or something. But
when I finally got to see a picture of it,
it just it hit me like a ton of bricks.
I realized that I'd seen one of those years ago,
you know, ten years prior. And then it really when
I really started doing my research and dig it into them,
I realized I had seen two of them, but one
was very much different than the other. But so I
started red Dirk cryptied investigations originally just for the people
of northwest Oklahoma who had crypted encounters you know, bigfoot,
dog man, you know, anything else that they happened to
have seen. You know. I started out just for them,
but it quickly spread and next thing you know, I
was talking to people from all over the state, and
eventually I ended up working parts of southern Kansas from
time to time as well. You know, we we do
a lot, me and my team. I've got several guys
that go out with me, Jeff Hatfield, Coleman Natchley, Eric Schrader,
and occasionally we have Scottie Rottimaker from Kansas with us too.
But we're always, you know, keeping our ear to the
ground and looking for case files, and we try to
go out and do field work, try to find ends
of these creatures. But we also interview eyewitnesses and talk
to them, and you know, probably a lot like you, Vic,
I spent a lot of time on the phone talking
to people who have had the majeebers scared out of them,
you know. But the one thing that I think that
I do that's a little bit different from everybody else
is I actually document all of these case files that
I get a chance to and I write them all
down and I put them on a public I wouldn't
call it a website, it's a it's actually an app
that I give people the link to for free. You
everybody out there has access to all of my case files,
and as far as I'm concerned, they're they're not really
my case files. They belong to the people, So throw
them out there. They're there for people that need them.
And every you know, every couple of months, I sit
down and add more case files to them as they
come in. And you know, it seems like here in Oklahoma,
they just they just keep coming in. You just kind
of got to know where to look. I've started learning
how to search social media and find, you know, people
that have had these encounters, and you know, I'm not shy.
I hit them up on you know, Facebook, Messenger, and
I reach out to them. Sometimes people just call me
directly because they they know they'll start, you know, googling Oklahoma,
you know, Wearwolf or something, and I guess I pop
up somehow. But and I get a lot of case
files from you, Vig. So I appreciate that because your
work has really aided my work. You know, that's an understatement.
A lot of case files I have you listed as
the investigator. So, but that's kind of me in a nutshell,
That's that's kind of what I do. I'm just a
simple guy trying to find some answers. I don't have
all the answers, but I guess nobody really does.
Speaker 2: You're right, none of us do. And of course I'm
glad to send eye witnesses your way. You're one of
the good ones.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it. You have sent a few to me.
Speaker 2: I'm glad to do it. I really am. Brian. A
lot of people who have never been to Oklahoma. I
don't know about the unique topography your state has. Please
expand on that for us.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Oklahoma has got to be one of the
weirdest states in the Union. We've got deserts, we've got maces,
We've got mountains, not big mountains, but you know, we've
got rivers, swamps, bayous. We've got farm land like you
would not believe, which I believe is a great contributor
to our population. You know, it's just you go from
one corner of the state to the other, and the
extremes of the type of you know, mountainous terrain and
stuff that we have is just it's insane. And then
when you throw you know, our panhandle in you know,
no man's land, then you got another, you know, completely
different type of topography there too. It's it's diverse. We've
even got salt flats here and deserts. It's it's really
strange when you really sit down and look at it.
You know, we've got nice, clear, beautiful creeks and rivers
over in parts of eastern Oklahoma, and over in western Oklahoma,
you know, we got muddy rivers, and I mean it's
like everything is different whenever you travel around. It's like
very few, even the animals, you know, Like I'll get
down to southwestern Oklahoma and I'll hear birds that I'm like,
I don't know what bird that is. That's really weird,
you know. So it's very different, very unique and diverse,
so very very strange.
Speaker 2: Really, it's not lost on a lot of people who
are in the crypto community that these guys in Sasquatch
they like to travel in creeks because the creeks will
hide their presence. Creeks have cut into the ground, and
they're lower than the surrounding earth normally, so even in
broad daylight, they can travel those creeks and not be seen.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: Oklahoma offers that on steroids. A lot of people when
they first travel to your state, they look across an
expanse and they think it's just flat ground, nothing but
flat ground out there. But if you go out there
and take a closer look, what are they going to find?
Speaker 1: Oh man, all those rivers. We've got a ton of
rivers and we've got a ton of likes. I read
somewhere a long time ago that Oklahoma has more miles
of shoreline than Florida does. It's just something that, you know,
one of those things that everybody in Oklahoma kind of knows.
They teach you when you were a kid in school
growing up. We've got a ton of water and it
flows and it's all over. I live in Garfield County
and I think it may actually be the only county
that doesn't have a major river flowing through it. I mean,
we've got a lot of creeks and stuff, but we
don't have any major rivers. But yeah, it's it's literally everywhere,
and you know, it all flows from you know, the
northwestern part, and it just kind of cuts down at
a forty five degree ankle a lot of times, and
it all kind of ends up dumping into the Mississippi.
You know, we got the Red River, the North Canadian River,
South Canadian River, Cimarron River, the Arkansas River. I mean,
there's so many of them. I don't even know, you
know how many rivers there are. There's just none of them.
And every single river, of course, is completely surrounded by
it's vegetation, old forest growth. You know, there's a ton
of cover for them. And when you get up into
northwestern Oklahoma, you know, we've got all the farm lands
and everybody kind of pictures that as being you know,
I think they used to call it the Great American Desert,
but it ain't that Great American Desert anymore. It's very
heavily wooded and there's a lot of cover for them.
But on top of having cover, they also have access
to the large deer population here, which is a great
food source. And of course now we've got these hogs
in the last fifteen twenty years, which is I guess
an unlimited supply of bacon. So you can't argue with that.
Speaker 2: Now, you can't all that cover the food supply, all
the moving water when wor could a dog me and want? Unfortunately, yeah,
not good. Plus the hogs of course, not good at all.
All right, Brian flunderstand you've got some case files that
you're willing to share with us tonight. Please do that now.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I once I got in here and
started looking at you know, some of my case files
have to you ask me. You know, there's a lot,
and you know, I really started sitting down and looking
at him after we talked, and so I actually did
punch some numbers. You know. I've got one is that
I've got like three hundred and ninety two case files
in the Red Dirt Crypto database. There two hundred and
forty of those, of course are sasquatch. The lions share
is sasquatch, but seventy eight of those is dog man.
That's twenty percent of the case files that I have
are dog men, and seventy four of them are others
like unknown, like it couldn't be identified whether it was
a sasquatch or dog man, so it could have been
either or you know, and so's that's nineteen percent of
them right there, so the number of dog man reports
could go up dramatically from twenty percent. The weird thing
that I got to notice, and I could see at
first glance, was that almost all of the seventy eight
dog man encounters except for two or Class A signings,
I think that's kind of unusual. I guess you don't
get a whole lot of Class B dog man sightings.
And I think the reason is is because those sightings
get reported as sasquatch. You know, you see something big
and harry moveing through the woods. I think those those
class ps are I mean, it kind of makes you
wonder how many of those class piece that Squatch reports
are actually dog man reports. So it's kind of some
food for thought. The first one that I got here
is from the fall of two thy ten, and I
actually went out and did an interview with this young man.
I call him a young man. He was I think
sixteen years old in twenty ten. He wished to remain anonymous,
and of course we always respect that, but you know,
he works in the family business, and you know, his
dad is a respected businessman in the community, so he
obviously had concerns like a lot of people do. But
when he was sixteen years old. He was sitting in
his bedroom and it was a nice day and he
had his window open, and he lived in. His bedroom
was one of those bedrooms that's up above the garage,
and he was up there and he was just kind
of sitting there and something told him that something was wrong.
It was nighttime, and so he sat up and he
was kind of looking around and he immediately looked out
the window and he the way he kind of described
it to me was is that he knew that something
was out there before he even saw it. And he
said he really couldn't explain how he knew it, but
he just knew it. And sure enough, pretty soon this
creature came out and into the light and started walking
up his driveway. Now he lives out in the country,
and it was a pretty nice looking house and the
driveway was there and it was kind of a long driveway. Well,
this thing comes into the light from the house and
it's sniffing around and it's acting like it's looking for something.
And basically what he's seeing is is this giant black
wolf walking around on all fours. And his pickup truck
had had a halfton dodge pickup truck, and it was
not parked on the driveway, but it was parked on
some gravel just off the driveway. And he said he
was just like Mesmerie watching the thing, and it walked
up and it started sniffing his truck, like sniffing the
tires like a dog would, you know, dogs will do
that kind of stuff. And basically he said that it
was really really black and he couldn't see a whole
lot once it got closer to the house. But he
said that all of a sudden, he something alerted this dog,
and it stood up on its hind legs, you know,
and he knew that this thing was big, you know,
before he could tell that it was. He said that
the back of this thing was even with the edge
of the bed of his pickup truck, you know, which
depending on the making, model or whatever. You know, that's
that's probably coming up to your belly button at least,
you know, if you're a six foot tall guy. But
he said it was a halftime pickup truck. I can't
remember off the top of my head, but he said
it was a four wheel drive or not. But you know,
but you know, you're talking just a few inches whatever
this thing was, was pretty substantially big. He said. When
it stood up, its head was a lot taller than
the cab of the truck. And of course this kind
of freaked him out, but he said at that point,
he said, it kind of looked around back and forth,
and then it took off and it ran off. He
never saw it yet, and I think he said he
said something about it to his parents, but he wasn't
really sure what he said. Like a lot of people,
you know, they see this and they don't really know,
you know, what was that that I saw, Like, I
didn't know what it was that I saw whenever I
first saw it. I didn't know it had a name.
I didn't know there was a breeding population of these things.
So that was I'm sure it was. It was very
traumatic for him, and to this day he's still, you know,
real skittish about talking about it with the you know,
the wrong people around, you know, because he's worried that
it's going to affect his livelihood, you know, like a
lot of people. So that happened in the fall of
twenty ten, and that was in northeastern Oklahoma, and I
went out and interviewed this guy. I think it was
like about a year ago now. So, and there is
a there is a YouTube video where we actually interview
the guy, but he's always off camera. So and the
guy was very sincere, very honest. You know, the guy
was just I don't know, he just felt like it
was his duty to let other people know, you know,
what he'd seen, because you know, I think it bugged
him enough that he thought that people needed to be warned,
if you know what I mean. My next one that
I plucked out happened in twenty thirteen in north central Oklahoma.
This lady reached out to me. She wanted to be
anonymous too. She's a Native American woman, and she was
very close. I'm very close to the intersection of Highway
four twelve and I thirty five, which is west of Enid,
north of Paris, east of Enid, north of Perry, you know,
kind of north of still Water area. But she was
driving home at about one o'clock in the morning, and
she said that she saw this thing coming at her
car as she was driving down four twelve highway, and
she said she saw it coming, and she said she
tried to veer out of the way or something, but
she didn't have time, and believe it or not, this
thing ran her car and it hit the She was
driving a four door and it hit the door right
behind her door, put a big dent in it. I
asked her if she had pictures of it, and she
said she did on her old phone, but her old
phone took a you know, you know what they do,
and she said she didn't have that photo anymore. But
the thing actually part of it actually went underneath her
rear driver's side tire, and she said that she went
up and over the thing. Of course, she was at
highway speeds, and she said that she almost lost control
of her vehicle and it scared her. She thought she
was going to wreck, and she said she was all
over the road and she's thinking this thing is going
to get her, you know. But then at the light,
very last minute, she got the car under the under
control and then she just kept going. And of course,
being Native American, you know, she was obviously disturbed. She
kind of knew what these things were. She went and
talked to some people about it, but she kind of
got the opinion that it was some type of bad
spirit that was, you know, wanting to punish her in
some way. And so she didn't talk about it for
a long time until she started learning too about you know,
this is a sub type of cryptid that's out there,
and this woman was like really traumatized by this. She
went home. She at first she didn't think it was
a flesh and blood creature. She was under the impression
that it was some kind of spiritual or paranormal you know,
demon sent to punish her for It's kind of funny.
She was coming home from the casino and she thought
that she was being punished for going to the casino,
which is kind of funny in its own way. But
I'll tell you what wasn't funny was listening to her
tell the story. I mean, this woman was literally, you know, terrified,
and she was and when she told the story, you know,
she was just reliving it, and it was it was
just to me, it was just captivating. I mean, I
would have loved to have had an audio recorder running
while she was telling the story. I mean, she was
literally about on the edge of her seat, you know,
when she was practically in tears. And this had happened,
you know, this had happened ten years prior, and it
was still really impactful. And you know, and creating all
this emotion in her, you know. And I mean I
really kind of felt bad for the lady and I
you know, I tried to talk to her like we
always do. I mean, there's you know, sadly, you know,
there ain't nobody that you can reach out to when
you see one of these creatures. You know, you can't
call your priest, you know, you can't you know, talk
to your buddies about it. You're probably gonna you know,
sometimes even talking to your spouse about it is a
terrible idea. You know. The only people that you can
really confide as people that you find out have actually
had the same encounter, you know. So but anyway, my
heart kind of goes out to that lady. I'll never
forget her in her story, but that was to me,
that was just I've got so many questions with this report,
like why did it hit her car? What was it
trying to do? What was the purpose? Did it try
to get run over? I mean, I have no idea.
And there's literally nothing out there either in that one
particular location, there's no rivers or anything out there. There's
a little airport right there, but now there's a casino
right there at the intersection of four to twelve and
I thirty five. But back then it wasn't anything there,
you know, so I don't really know what was going
on there. That report leaves you with, you know, more
questions than you had before, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeahless that normally goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like every case file opens up five more questions.
You know. Let's see, my next one is case about
three fifty two. Let me see I set these things aside.
Oh gosh, yes, this was a This was a very
interesting one. I had this young man reach out to me,
and at the time he reached out to me, I
think he was seventeen years old. And all I'll say
is is that he he lives in southwestern Oklahoma, and
he helps his grandparents run a cattle ranch and they've
had a series of very peculiar events, including you know,
cattle mutilations and stuff, of which he sent me pictures of.
And it's very strange too, because it was like some
of these casts that were killed, it's like they weren't
even eaten upon. They were just it was almost like
they were just killed for sport or something, which is
you know, odd behavior. To begin with. But he had
two visual encounters that were pretty scary, pretty scary. The
first encounter that he had was he was he wrote
a four wheeler from the farmhouse and he did this
during the daytime, got up early in the morning, and
he said, one winter it was really really cold, and
this was in twenty twenty two, so it wasn't even
that long ago. It was November twenty twenty two. He
wrote his four wheeler out to go check and make
sure that the water trought have one of those big
twelve foot water troughs with the solar pump, and you know,
basically he had to go make sure that everything was
still working and that the cows could get water. And
so he goes over there and he goes through a
cattle guard and he opens up the gate and he
goes in and rides over there, and sure enough, the
pump is actually working. He said, they've been having trouble
with the pump. And he noticed whenever he went through
there was a corral of sorts right there by the
gate where he went in, and he noticed what he
thought was a black cow laying down with its back
facing him in the on the outside of the crowd
on the other side of it, but he didn't think
much of it just looked like a black cow, and
so he just kind of, you know, and he was
in a hurry. You know, he's you know, seventeen sixteen
years old the time, and you know, he had better
things to do than to fool around. So he went
over there and checked it, and he came back and
he when he came back, he shut the gate behind him,
and he noticed that that cow was gone. And so
he pulled out of the cattleguard and turned to his right,
and he was going to go that way. But when
he turned out on the road, and that's when he
saw it, the thing apparently changed positions. It was now
in the middle of the road and it was standing
in the middle of the road, and it was facing
him like at a three quarters angle. He said, he
stopped and he was very shocked. You know, he didn't
know what he was looking at. He said, the thing
was very large. But he said, the thing him and
this thing just kind of had like a standoff, you know,
staring at each other. And he said, really not sure
how long it was on, but eventually the thing kind
of did like a like a half lunch at him,
you know, like like it was trying to instigate something,
you know. And he said when that happened, it like
snapped him out of it. And he was like, you know,
I got to get the hell out of here. So
he floored it and kind of spun the thing around
and he took off going the other way and went
the long way around. But he said that he thought
the thing was going to get him, but it never
got him. And I guess several months later, maybe a
year later, I'd have to check the file. He said
that he was pulling out of the gate again, same place,
and he looked up on the hill and he said
he saw the thing standing up there, and he looked
at it and they made eye contact, and then all
of a sudden, it just took off like a rocket, okay,
and it starts coming down this hill. It's charging him,
and he's freaked out, you know, and he's like, oh crap,
you know. So he takes off and he he's just
gunning it. And apparently he'd been having some problems with
the brakes on his four wheeler, and but he was
going so fast an accelerated rate because of his adrenaline
and everything that he took a curve too fast and
without his brakes he wasn't able to slow down. He
actually ended up wrecking his like I say wrecking. He
went off into the ditch and got stuck right and
he was just he thought to himself, He's like, this
is it. This thing's going to kill me. And he said,
whenever he ran off into the ditch, he got up
and he looked in there to see what it was doing,
see if it was, you know, about to pound thought
him whatever. He said, the thing just stopped, looked confused,
looked left and right, and ended up just kind of
casually walking off, like you know, this isn't any fun anymore,
you know. So he he was. He was very convincing,
very convincing, nice young man, I think, you know. I
follow him on we're friends on Facebook, and he's fixing
to go to college.
Speaker 3: I think, and he shows cattle. It seems like a
very nice, well rounded young man. And he seemed like
he had nothing but sincerity in him, you know. And
he also mentioned that he had from time to time
sasquatch on his property out there too, but.
Speaker 1: He didn't have any fear of them. It's like they
were no big deal. So but again, you know, when
you sit down and you listen to the story, right
and you hear him say it, You're like, well, why
didn't that dog man attack him? You know, why did
it had him? You know, why did it stop? Why
didn't it catch him the first time? You know, what
was it doing in the corral? Was it in there sleeping?
You know? Again I do not, but you know, it's
like most of your stories, VIC, I mean, they usually
end up with you know, no harm coming to the eyewitness,
you know, with every opportunity to do it, to catch him.
So I don't know, this stuff is so fascinating. That
was Southwestern Oklahoma twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: So so goodness, that's the pattern instead of them following through.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have any case files, and what do we know?
It wouldn't It kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it.
And keep in mind something that I think people need
to realize. These are just the case files that people
have come forward on. I mean, there's there's got to
be a lot more that people just aren't talking about.
I mean, to me, it's just really really fascinating. We
really have no idea how many, what the population is,
or anything, because you know, it's such a it's still
to this day, even though we've come a long way,
it's still a taboo subject. So, especially in Oklahoma, we're
very conservative. I guess you'd say, now, you and I
have talked before about you know, how there's no real
paranormal side of most of these case files. How you know,
there's no no indication really that these dog man creatures
are supernatural, paranormal or whatever. I actually forgot about this
case file until I started going through them, and I
took this one back in August of twenty twenty four,
So it's been since the last time I sat out
and talked to you. But I had a lady reach
out to me, and this situation actually happened in Edmund, Oklahoma,
which is suburban. Edmund is a really big town just
on the north side of Oklahoma City. It's actually, I
guess you could say it's a suburb of Oklahoma City,
but Edmund is its own town and its own right,
you know. But there were two witnesses back in two
thousand and nine that saw a dog man a werewolf
type creature emerge from a flash of green light and
this was at Coltrane in Simpson, Yeah, prior, and that
was in the summer of two thousand and nine. Two
people saw it. They were married at the time, but
she said that they were actually divorced now. But she
said that this thing was like twenty to thirty feet
away from him and it just flash of light green.
The thing was standing there. She says. You didn't see
it step out of a portal or anything. She just
said that there was a flash of light. They turned
and looked and the thing was standing right there where
the light was. Is that a portal? I don't know.
I don't know. But anyway, this, uh, there was two
people that actually saw this, and they may not like
each other anymore, but they both back each other up
on what they saw that night, which I think is
kind of funny. A weird note about this is they
said that this where wolf was standing up right, but
they said that it had blue healer colored fur, you
know that gray color. I don't know. Do you get
a whole lot of reports of them with blue healer
type fur.
Speaker 2: No, I can't think of any that have come in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of makes you wonder. What I mean,
is this is this a typical dog man. They said
it had spiky hair on the back of its neck
and red eyes. You know, which you know this that
kind of stuff is it is fairly common to get reported.
But you know, I just think it's very very odd
that you know, we would get something like that. I mean,
I don't know, but to the best of my knowledge,
this report right here, and it's a case pout three
seventy eight. We're a wolf and Edmund, Oklahoma. That is
the closest thing that I've ever had for a case
file where something could have involved a portal. So I
don't know. Again, here we have more questions, more questions.
Speaker 2: That's how it normally goes. Just when you think you
know enough about dog men to know to have a
clue where the guardrails are, another report comes in that
just blows you right over the guardrail that you're closest to.
Speaker 1: Yes, give me more guardrail because this is it's getting
out of control. I do have another report from Edmund
to Oklahoma. This one actually happened in January of twenty
twenty four. This wasn't very long ago, but this one
didn't involve any portals or anything. But it is fairly
close to the same area. And this one's pretty weird
too in its own right. I'll just read the eyewitness
report to you because it was very, very brief. This
one reached out to me a messenger wanted to remain anonymous,
which is kind of funny. Most people that have dog
man encounters, it seems like they want to remain anonymous
to it. I would say, to a higher percentage than
sasquatch or Bigfoot believers. But I think it has something
to do with the fact that bigfoot is becoming more
acceptable polite society, I guess. But I'll just read this
out to you to hear. The young woman who was
a bakery worker twenty two years old in Edmund, Oklahoma,
had a strange encounter on the eleventh of January twenty
twenty four, at three o'clock in the morning. She was
driving to work bank reyworker makes sense, she saw a
strange looking dog on top of the water tower. It
was near Eyres and Blackwelder and there is a tall,
possibly four story high water tower. She said, at first
it was on four legs, and then it stood up
and she noticed it had a caneine head. She said,
there's a stop sign right there at the location. She
described the creature as being roughly six foot tall. It
had a really long snout, and it looked shaggy in nature,
but slender. The eyewitness drove a but lost sight of
the creature. She looked back several times again. This is
one of those same stories that we get a lot.
She didn't know what she saw. She described this thing
as a as a were wolf, you know, but she
felt like it was her duty, like somebody needed to know,
you know, which is I think it's pretty common. I
think a lot of people feel a need to tell
somebody what they saw. But then after they they do that,
then they just they just want to fade away and
go back to their normal lives. I don't know. But
what on earth would it have been doing on top
of a small water tower, I mean, was it, I
don't know, keeping an eye on everything or something, or
even better, how did it get up there?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: I don't know. So another one that came in recently.
This one actually happened on July twenty ninth of twenty
twenty three, And this one actually came to me through
another a fellow bigfoot researcher. His name is Brian Hulin.
He's with the Southern Bigfoot Alliance. He was in contact
with a young woman who had encountered a possible white
dog man right off of the right, off the side
of the road in I forty, and it was actually
really close to the Arkansas line, and she was actually
on her way to Arkansas. And I'll just this very
short report because it was a roadside encounter, of course,
but this woman wanted to remain anonymous. The anonymous young
woman who was driving down I forty extremely close to
the Arkansas state line on July twenty ninth, twenty twenty three,
had a roadside encounter with a creature whose description could
possibly meet a white dog man. This encounter happened in
broad daylight. Multiple cars appeared to her as having seen it.
She said the creature appeared to be eating something on
the ground off the side of the highway, possibly roadkill.
The eyewitness speculated that it was roadkill, but didn't see
it for sure to conferment. It was on all fours
and it looked up from its meal and looked at
the eyewitness. The eyewitness said that it was possibly twenty
to thirty yards away. She gave the following description that
it had white fur all over and it was extremely large,
and she said its head looked like a polar back.
Now that struck me as odd. We don't have We
have very few bears in Oklahoma. We do have small
black bears, but our black bears are about the size
of a large dog. So I can't help but wonder
if it was, you know, a canine look. But because
of the whiteness of the thing, spur that she interpreted
it as a polar bear. Kind of hard to say anyway.
She said that it looked like a polar bear's head,
except it had a very thick coat of hair around
the back half of its neck. She said that the
back half of the creature looked a lot like a
dog with its the shape of its legs. The eyewitness
reached out to my friend Brian, who relayed the report
to us. I thought that was kind of entering. I
thought it was worth documenting because we don't get a
whole lot of white dog man reports, and I am
assuming that that's what we're that's what we're probably looking
at here. Do you get very many white dog man
reports at all?
Speaker 2: Not many, but they do come in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of hard to say. I mean, I
didn't get to question the lady directly, but the guy
that relayed all the information to me, of course, he's
a bigfoot investigator, so he knew what kind of questions
to ask, so I feel and he was very confident
in this young you know, in her sincerity. So it's
kind of funny. She said she didn't know what she
had seen, and she just knew that her friend had
dealt with Bigfoot, so she felt like she needed to
reach out to him. You know. The funny part about
this report is if that young woman would not have
been friends with Brian Hulan, we probably never heard about this.
I mean, it probably never would have saw the light
of day. But now it's documented where other people can
get their hands on it. So the next one I
got is a case file two seventy nine. This one
happened in July of twenty twenty two. Now this one
actually may have have been in Texas, but it did
happen at Lake Texoma. It happened at Mill Creek, which
is actually on the south side of Texoma. And for
those of you that don't know, Lake Texoma is part
of the border between Oklahoma and Texas, and this lady
that reached out to me. She said that there was
three people in the car, but only two of them
saw it. It was her and her nephew. They both saw
the thing. And this Mill Creek area is kind of
like one of those typical lake communities where they have
a boat ramp and you know, there's there's trailer houses,
lake houses out there, and I think there's a restaurant
out there and stuff, and and this thing was basically
lurking around this this little lake type community at night,
and her and her nephew both saw the thing. And
then when they went back the next day and they
were looking at it in the daylight, they realized that
even though the thing looked huge, it was actually standing
in the bar ditch, which made it actually shorter than
it was in real life. So it was actually taller
than they realized when they when they were actually looking
at it, which I thought was kind of weird. But
she gave a really decent description, and I just think
that the whole thing was very interesting. There's not a
whole lot of food sources out there other than the lake.
I mean, I did consider that, and there is a
restaurant there, and I thought crossed my mind that maybe
this this creature was dumpster diving in the area at night,
just kind of passing through, hitting a few dumpsters or
maybe even trash cans. You know. It did happen in July,
so that's prime time for link activities. So hard to say,
but that one maybe in Texas, but we'll still claim it. Right. Oh,
let's see here. Oh this one, this one's so funny.
So this is case Foul three twenty one. And this
one here was actually came out because I just happened
to run into a guy. And so I was out
at one of my research areas in northwestern Oklahoma, and
I was out there by myself, which I'm probably not
supposed to do. And I was at this one area
and I was looking for prints in the marshes and stuff.
And this guy pulls up in a pickup truck and
starts getting out some fishing poles and stuff. So I
kind of walked over there and I was kind of
visiting with him, you know, because that's usually where you
get your best lead, is from the local boat, the
local boys, you know. And you know, I started out
with you know, regular pleasantries and stuff, and eventually, you know,
I slipped in the question, it's so, have you ever
heard of anything weird or seen anything weird out here?
You know? And he's like, well, what do you mean.
I don't know, like big foot or anything like that.
And he goes, nope, and he said, I've never seen
a bigfoot out here, but I have seen a choop
of combra. And I was like, what, you know, because
I don't have anything that I would consider to be
a cheop of combra report in Oklahoma. So I was
just at first, I was just like, oh, this is awesome.
This is awesome. So I asked I like, you know,
I mean, I was giddy, you know, and I was like, well,
tell me about it. What happened? I was like, well,
where did you see this? He goes, oh, We're on
the road over here, and I was I mean, he
was literally talking like two and a half miles down
the road, you know. And apparently, according to him, he
was riding his pickup truck and him and his daughter
were going to go fishing and probably at the same place.
Apparently he lived right down there. But he said that
this cheop cabra crossed the road in front of them
and scared his daughter. And I guess his daughter was
like six years old or sometimes. I'd have to read
the case file. He was telling me all about it,
but he said that it and I asked him to
describe it, you know, and you try to do, you know,
get down to some details and stuff. And it's very
hard to try to get people to accurately describe stuff
sometimes because as an investigator, you don't want to plant
ideas in their head. You want us to know what
they really saw. And if you start saying stuff like
did it have great, big, huge years, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, and you know, did it have you know,
fangs that stuck out everywhere?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, you as an investigater, you need to
be very careful not to lead the eyewitness or else
you could taint or contaminate your own you know, case file,
you know, your own story. And so I was trying
to be real, real vague, but I was like, well
tell me, tell me what you saw. And basically what
he was describing was a juvenile dog man. And I
thought that that was so so funny that he interpreted
a juvenile dog man as a chupicabra and kind of
made me reflect and because what he was called a
chupacabra was basically, you know, a black wolf type dog
with thin hair. You know, a lot of them don't
have the bushy hair some of them did, you know,
they're it's like he fight like chiuahwah hair or something.
I guess. I'm sure you get reports of that too.
Speaker 2: Right, Sometimes they do, but not all that.
Speaker 1: Often, okay, But he said that, you know, this one
didn't have a whole lot of hair on its body,
but around its neck and everything, and on top of
its head it had a lot of bushy hair. And
he actually described it like a lion's mane. But he
said it was only like three or four foot tall,
and it was in the middle of the road. But
it scared his daughter so bad she didn't want to
go fishing that day. So but he to this day.
It makes you wonder and reflect on chewpacabras as a whole.
You know, we don't have a whole lot of chupacaba
reports here in Oklahoma, but you know, when you get
further south and you get down into Mexico, it makes
you wonder, are they reporting juvenile dog men? Is that
what they're seeing? I mean it kind of makes you reflect.
I mean, you know, unlike Bigfoot. You know, if you
see a dog man from three or four hundred yards away,
are you going to recognize that as a dog man
or are you just going to call it a dog?
You know, It's kind of the further out you get,
the harder it is to judge, you know, how big
you know a creature is the only way that you
would know for sure is if you saw this dog man,
you know, walking upright, you know. So I think that
a lot of people probably see these creatures, especially at
a distance, and they don't really realize that it's it's
a cryptid at all. They just think it's a domestic
caneine or something. But you know, you think about it.
Even their prints. I mean, the young ones could leave
their prints everywhere and people wouldn't be able to tell
the difference, you know, I mean, who knows how many
times we've walked across the dog men prints and they
just appear to be regular canine prints, you know. I mean,
they're really not going to get your attention unless they're
over five inches in diameter, right, I mean they'd have
to be bigger than that. Well, what percent of the
dog man population is actually the really really big ones,
you know, the ones that you hear about are mainly
not that big. You know, they're seven foot range? When
what would you say the average height for some of
the reports you've taken off the top, I mean, just
off the top of your head.
Speaker 2: I'd say the average height is around seven feet. Eight
footers come in fairly often, but definitely not like the
seven footers, So I'd say the average is normally right
around seven.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting to. I mean,
get a whole lot of you know, these ten footers
and stuff you know that you that you know they
you tell hear tail about, but I don't know. And
I guess you've got to ask yourself if you've got
one that stands up and it's seven foot tall and
it's coming in at three point fifty three hundred and
fifty pounds, I mean, what size diameter a footprint is? That?
Is that beast gonna leave? I mean, we really don't know.
Nobody does, and well, I mean I'm not gonna say nobody.
There's there's probably people out there that have that that expertise,
but I'm definitely not one of them. And I think
the general consensus is is, you know, we just don't know, so,
but there have been reports. I took a report a
couple of years ago from a guy from south of Tacumsa, Oklahoma,
who his neighbor had taken a picture of a nine
inch dog track, and I was like, well, you know,
is there any way you could get that for me?
And he was like, well, i'll go ask, I'll go,
I'll see if I could get him to send it
to me. And you know, of course, I'm like on
the edge of my seat, you know, a nine inch
canine track, you know, and and he masters me while
he said he doesn't have it anymore, which is usually
how things go. I mean, I see that as a tragedy,
you know that somebody would lose a photo or you know,
that kind of evidence. But at the end of the day,
that's the way most people are. Most people take a
picture and they think it's kind of interesting, and those
pictures will just sit on their phone, and you know,
and then they drop their phone in the toilet or
in the lake or something like that, and that's gone
forever and they really don't realize what they got. They
don't know that maybe they should share that with investigators,
and they don't have a clue. They just don't know.
And and then by the time you find out, it's
too late, so or maybe we were being snookered the
whole time. It's hard to say, yeah, it's possible.
Speaker 2: One thing that doesn't help is most of the general
public has no idea how big a normal kydid print
can be. They don't realize that they'll see a four
inch print and say, well, that's got to be a
dog me in print because it's so much bigger than
their dog's prints are. But yes, the biggest print that's
ever been found was from at least by on the
wolf side of things, was a print that was five
inches wide by six inches long. Unlike dogs, wolves have
prints that are elongated. But you have found a nine
inch or that kind of cuts down on the possibilities,
doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and and there you go again. I
mean it's you know, people don't notice, you know, I
would argue that your average Joe might actually overlook a
six inch canine print, you know, just think, oh, that's
a really big dog, you know, I I don't know.
I mean it, I just don't. To me, it's just
unfathomable that somebody could look at a at a at
a print like that and not realize that you're looking
at something extremely special. But you know, a lot of
people they just don't put two and two together, you know,
or maybe they think that somebody is just messing with
them or something. I mean, it's it's kind of hard
to say what they're thinking. When when dog Man is
not even on your radar, then how would you know,
you know, you just you just don't. You don't know
till it's too late and you get rid of it.
But yeah, a five inch dog or canine print is
a very huge wolf. But anything over than that, anything
under than that could be domestic too. I run across, uh,
you know, four inch dog prints all the time, and
sometimes I wonder about them. I found four inch canine
prints that have like you can kind of tell that,
you know, you know, how some of the dog man
prints are going around on the internet. How they have
like elongated foot portion at the back of them, I
don't know. I've often speculated that maybe you know that
part of it only shows up on the dog man
when they're walking by pevally. At least, it's kind of
my theory. I think that, you know, it's possible that
when they're walking quadrupedaly that it just looks like a
regular canine print when they walk. But I could be wrong,
and I would absolutely love for anybody to enlighten me
with some evidence to the contrary. So anyway I can
keep going, I can keep doing. I have a twenty
twenty three encounter from an area close to law in Oklahoma.
This is I'm trying to remember. I had this guy
reached out to me and hit me up on Facebook Messenger,
and he was a truck driver and he wanted to
remain anonymous like most people. And this guy has basically
was running into him, seeing him in broad daylight out
in fields when he was coming and going from this
place of employment. He said he could see him running
across the running across the fields at high rates of speed,
and he was shocked at how fast these things were.
And he said that they were they were black, and
and he said that there was just nothing out there.
There was mesquite trees, and you know, and they've got
little maces and buttes and and and all kinds of
different stuff, and he he did mention that he was
working at a landfill, which I thought was interesting because
I've always I've always found the landfills to be a
possible hot spot, you know, because it is a huge
food resource for animals. I've noticed that if you go
out and you look around landfills and the surrounding areas,
there's a lot of animal traffic like coyotes and stuff
coming through, and they're usually coming back and forth from
the landfill area. As a matter of fact that I've
had some people give me, you know, sasquatch reports from
landfills too, So I think that both sasquatch and dog
man could probably get a lot of nutrition from a landfill,
and possibly even as long as there's a clean water source,
they it might not have to actually leave the area.
They could probably stay there a year round and just
go in in the middle in the middle of the night.
I would love to find somebody that you know, actually
worked at a at a landfill that was frequented by
these things, and maybe if they had like security cameras
and stuff. I would be willing to bet you that
we've got video footage of these things on film going
into some of these landfills, but just nobody knows to look.
You know. It's like most security footage. Nobody ever looks
at it unless something comes up missing or stolen or damaged.
And unless that happens, nobody's going to look at it.
Who's to say how many different bigfoots and even dog
Man that we have on film and we have no
idea that it's there because nobody takes the time to
review it. Oh wow. But I did think that this
was kind of unusual. He said that he would see
him running quadrupedally and bipedally both, so two different times
he saw. It's kind of an interesting story. Now, the
next one that I'm going to talk about is the
one of the picture that I sent you, okay, and
because I was curious if you had ever seen that picture,
because that I have seen that picture. I've seen it
on the internet before, and every time i've seen it,
it has been one of those situations where people don't
know where the picture came from. And the story that
I got was that sometime after two thousand and three,
and I am currently this is one of my case
files that I'm currently looking for more information on it's
case file number two eighty eight. It's called Treasure Hunter
gets followed by dog Man in the Witchitam Mountains. And
the way I understand it is this guy. And for
those of you that don't know, the Witchita Mountains have
long rumored to have, you know, statues of gold and
stuff from clear back in the day with the Spanish
and stuff. And then there's like there's stories of cowboy
loot and hidden over there in the Wichita Mountains. And
you know, if you've ever been out there, you know
that you know, you could stash a body somewhere, and
the rocks over there, nobody hauld ever find it. I mean,
it's just it's like a big maze out there. But
there's been all these rumors about treasure and everything else,
and so there's people that go out there and they
kind of wander around they look for treasure. Well, this
guy was one of them, and he was out there,
and he was way in the back, and I'm not
exactly sure, but I kind of got the impression that
he was well I guess I probably shouldn't say exactly
what location he was out, but anyway, he was he
was looking for treasure and he was looking through some
rock formations and stuff for some some caves or some mines,
let's just put it that way. And he suddenly noticed
that something was following him, that there was some kind
of creature in the brush and it was making little
noises and it wasn't being very discreet, breaking branches and
stuff like that. Well, this guy didn't know anything about
dog Man. He had no idea, but he had watched
Finding Bigfoot, right, and so he basically had an idea
that you know that you know this this could be
a sasquatch or something. So he gets on the phone
as he's hiking out, and he says, he calls this
guy because he knows this guy that's a bigfoot person.
I don't know who this person was. I wish I did,
but he calls this person on the phone and the
guy goes, well, yeah, it kind of sounds like bigfoot behavior.
He goes, well, why don't you hang up the phone
and take a picture, you know, start filming, And so
the guys like that's a good idea. So he hangs
up the phone with his friend and he basically starts
taking pictures of this thing that's behind him. And that
picture that I sent you was the only one that
actually showed anything. And as you can see from the picture,
you know, it's got very call prominent anubis looking can
nine ears and you can kind of see it's kind
of got sloping shoulders. You know, I don't know, it
just oozes anubis to me. I don't know about you. Now.
It's not the best picture. You can't see any eyes
or any face definition, but you can definitely get the
opinion that it is something canine from distance. And supposedly
this guy got out in his truck and you know,
was driving away, and I guess he sent that picture
to his bigfoot Betty, and his bigfoot Betty was like,
that's that's beyond my pay grade. He said, I think
what you got there is a dog man, you know.
And of course, you know, the bigfoot guy didn't know
what to do with it, and it just kind of
fizzled from there. I would love to talk to this guy.
If you want to see the picture, it's well, I mean,
you know, if you want to post it in the
notes or something, you're more than welcome to. But if not,
you can go to my case files and you can
find two eighty eight and the photo is actually listed
there on the case file, so.
Speaker 2: Sure to interrupt you there, Brian, But if you can
send me a link to that to take people directly
to that case file on your site, then i'll post
that in the description for tonight's show.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, and I'll warn you that some people, it'll
just depending on what what kind of device you're using,
it'll just let you see them all and you don't
have to do anything. Some people actually have to go
in and create an account with It's called Airtable. It's
kind of like it's spreadsheet type thing, kind of like Excel,
but this one's free, and you know, I'm a teacher,
so it's in my pay range. But yeah, we store
everything in there, so you might actually have to create
an account, give them your email address and create a
password or whatever. It's super easy. But once you do that,
it'll let you in and stuff. There is a link
to all my case files on my Facebook page under
the featured section. But yeah, i'll send you I'll try
to send you a link to that so you can
to that specific case file, so that you know, anybody
that's specifically curious. It is an interesting photo, although it's
it's like most cryptid photos. It leaves a lot to
be desired of it.
Speaker 2: It does, but it's a photo. They got a photo
of something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it wasn't what he wasn't what he thought
he had, So anyway, that kind of cracks me out,
But yes, I would love to have more information on that.
So case found number three fifty eight another white dog man.
I had a young lady reach out to me. Her
name is Amanda, and when she was young down in
Seminole County, which is kind of south central Oklahoma, back
in the winter of nineteen ninety eight, her and her
friend and their mothers had a counter and basically the
girls were inside a house and they basically the mother
saw this what she described as a white or a
light gray colored werewolf standing outside their house looking through
the window. And there was multiple people in the house
that saw it. I think both adult women saw it,
and the two girls both saw it. And the weirdest
part about it is is they think it had been
in the area for a while because the two girls
had actually had an encounter wish something that they couldn't
see earlier that day out in the woods. I guess
they were out playing in the woods so but anyway,
that's the case Fye number three point fifty eight, and
I guess this thing was standing up by and it
was looking at them, you know, and of course I'm
sure that there was at that point there was pandemonium
that came out in there. And of course you know,
that was in nineteen ninety nine, and you know, poor man,
that she was fifteen years old at the time, but
she remembers it very very well. And I can't help
but wonder if she did she ever want to go
spend the night with that girl. And I don't know,
but she she was very genuine, very real, kind of
a country girl, down to earth, very what's the word sincere,
but you know, I would say uncomplicated. You know, she
just seemed like a normal, good old country girl. And again,
this is another one of those situations where it's like
people are like, you know, I need to reach out
and tell this guy and so he can document this stuff,
because somebody's got to know about this stuff, you know,
somebody's got to find out somebody or somebody needs to
do something. I don't know that I'm going to be
able to do anything about this, but maybe eventually if
we get enough case files and we get enough data,
you know, we might be able to do something crazy
like patternum or or predictum or something like that. I mean,
there's just there's so many, you know, and there's there's
so many that are recently, you know. I remember wasn't
too terribly long ago. And you know, you put me
in touch with that that young man that was a
medical lab assistant who got chased down the highway by
that dog man in Oklahoma. You remember that.
Speaker 2: I don't remember that now.
Speaker 1: Oh it was. It was one of yours. Uh, his
name was Matt. He was from Cushing, and it was
episode four seventy three. I've got it right here in
my notes. But I actually reached out to you, and
you put me in contact with him because he had
no interest in being anonymous, and so I spent some
time talking to him on the phone, and he was
very sincere. You know. The funny thing was he struck
me as the type of guy who he'd never had
a clue that dog men were a thing until this
happened to him, you know. And I was shocked at
how little he knew about dog men. I mean, he
wasn't well versed in it. He didn't know, but you know,
some of the things that he was describing really aligned
with what it was, and he was just very I
don't know, he was curious. He was like, what was that? What?
You know, he just I don't know, it was very
He struck me as a very sincere young man, you know,
and I was impressed with this story, and you know,
of course it kind of it kind of messed with
my head a little bit because I used to drive
that same road back when I was going to college.
So just I mean, it's just there's so many of
them recently, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that really does bring it close to home when
you find out that here you're driving a road where
an actual encounter happened. It does make the hackles stand up. Brian,
I'll tell you what, We're an hour and fifteen in,
so time.
Speaker 1: It fines.
Speaker 2: I hate that go. I hate the idea of bringing
this to an end. You're doing such an amazing job.
Would you be open to coming back because the people
in the chat they can't get enough of you. I'm
sure the listeners can't get enough of you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously don't know me.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm just blown away by the job you've been doing.
I really am. I'm behind. If I was to sit down,
if I had time to sit down all weekend, I
could probably plug in twenty more case files. Of course,
not all of them are dog Man, you know, but
there's there's a.
Speaker 1: I'm just one. I'm just one guy. That's that's trying
to trying to put the information out there. I mean
it's everywhere. It's it's you know, just go to show
these local Just go to your local uh you know cryptid,
you know, Facebook pages and just type in go to
the search bar and type in dog man. I mean
it'll pull up every time somebody says dog man in
that Facebook page for the last five years. It blow
your mind. They're everywhere. I literally do not have enough time.
You know, I wish I had money. I would hire staff.
I mean it's literally at that point. It's a good thing.
I'm a teacher and I have a lot of debt,
a lot of time off. So anyway, yeah, I'd be
more happy to come back. I can tell I've got
a lot more case I mean, I've got you know,
seventy eight case files. You know that's that's just dog men.
Speaker 2: So well, yeah, that's a lot. But then again, you've
been doing this for a while and people know about you,
so no wonder you have seventy eight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the sad part is I'm always thinking about all
the ones that I'm not getting are the ones that
I missed, And you know, I think everybody's story needs
to be heard. I mean, we've got some of the
oldest dog man reports around. There was reports in the
sixteen hundreds by common Cero's that came to western Oklahoma
and they were reporting seeing what they called lobosomes out there.
They were writing about them in their journals. You know,
I don't know, you know how I do?
Speaker 2: I know all too well. Well, i'd be remiss, Brian
if I didn't ask you to promote your documentaries, promote
your YouTube channel, and also to please promote Red Cryptid
Investigations again before we go, so please take your time.
Speaker 1: Well, I you know, we have a YouTube channel, and
the YouTube channel kind of started out as just a
place for me to document my evidence that I was
that I was you know, gathering and stuff videos and
stuff like that, and it just kind of started morphing
into something and people started subscrib in, and you know,
so now it's kind of like the Adventures of the
Red Dirt Cryptid investigations. We do interviews and sometimes we
take you along for expeditions. We're currently working on a
documentary and this one is actually a Sasquatch documentary that
we're going to be done filming by the time summer
rolls around. We've got one more place that we're going
to go and then we're gonna we're gonna shut it
down and we're just gonna put that put that documentary out.
This fall, we're going to start working on a dog
man documentary and we're looking forward to that so we
can definitely if you guys have any information, you know,
or dog man evidence or something, we would love to
take a look at it and you can help us
out with that because, as you guys know, finding man
evidence is very very hard. It's easy to stumble on
bigfoot evidence, but dog man evidence is a lot more elusive,
you know. But that's us. We're our primary place. I mean,
we're everywhere. We're on TikTok and Instagram and x and
stuff like that, but YouTube is still kind of our home.
So if you need to reach out to me, you
can always go hit me up on Facebook, Messenger, and
send me a send me a message, or you can
hit us up on the email at Red Dirt Cryptids
at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Well that makes it really easy, Brian. Like I told
you before several times, you're one of the good ones,
and of course I wish nothing but the best for you.
Please remember with that in mind, if I can ever
help you in the future, let me know I'll be
there for you.
Speaker 1: Thanks buddy, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: It goes two ways, it really does. Thanks again so
much for your time. Like I said, and hope you
have a great night.
Speaker 1: You too, have a good bugs.
Speaker 2: Count on it. Thank you. Well, that's another one in
the books. Everyone, thanks again so much for tuning in.
I really do appreciate it. If you've had a dogman
encounter that you need help dealing with, or if you'd
like to come on the show and share it with
everyone listening, please go to Dogmanencounters dot com and submit
a report. If you do that, then I'll contact you
and schedule a phone consultation with you. If you've happened
to have a sasquatch sighting and we'll like to come
on one of my two Bigfoot podcasts. All you would
need to do is to go to my Bigfoot sighting
dot com and submit a guest request, And if you
do that then I'll be in touch. But having said that,
thanks again so much everyone for listening in. Have a
great night. I really appreciate its
Speaker 1: English