Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
an idea.
Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.
Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I
tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not because.
Speaker 2: I put my hand on a book and made a.
Speaker 1: Wish and working together for a more rational world.
Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
Truth Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.
Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2: I almost had to start this show late because an
I amuse myself by the way, there was a lawnmower
going next door. The reason the lawnmower was going next
door is because of me, and I must tell you
this story as I wait for the switchboard to populate.
So there's this empty lot right next to our home
and the builder or the owner of the lot doesn't
like to mow it. And I get it. We've had
a lot of rain and sometimes the grass gets tall
and its first world problems. Totally, I'm not that person,
but it was insane. It was like three feet tall
and out of control and so and this is a
chronic thing. And so I went on the neighborhood's Facebook page,
and the neighborhood does have like a community page, and
I posted an image which I had photoshopped. So I
went out with my phone. I took a picture of
the overgrown lot, and I came back here into photoshop
and I put a bunch of Riesei's monkeys photoshopped an
entire troop of Reesei's monkeys that were all frolicking around
this overgrown lot in the grass and the weeds. It
was actually pretty impressive. I was pretty happy with my work,
considering I did it on the fly. And I posted
it and I tagged the lot owner because I'm a
jerk apparently, and I said, I'm not saying that the
lot next door is overgrown and out of control, but
a troop of Riese's monkeys has taken up residence there
and all the screeching is making it hard to sleep
at night. Everybody had a big laugh first thing. This morning,
mowers are out there. That's just awesome. And honestly, in
this sounds kind of well, maybe it doesn't. Maybe you
get this another reason I don't like for them to
let it overgrow. It is because we have a ton
of bunnies in the neighborhood, a lot of rabbits. They're everywhere.
They like to get in our little garden and they
live behind the trees and they're frolicking here and there.
And you know, some people say they eat the plants. Hell,
I don't care. They're bunnies. They're little rabbits, so cute.
But the rabbits like to take up residents and in
the tall grass, and so when they wait till it's
three plus feet, sometimes the bunnies cannot get out of
the way of the mower. And I'm going to spare
you the details. But it's as bad as you would think,
because I stumble upon the aftermath when I'm walking Linus.
Totally gruesome, totally avoidable. So part of me is like,
save the bunnies. Moh the damn lawn occasionally. Anyway, that's
my first world problem and easy amusement today. So if
you ever need someone to photoshop some reesius monkeys into
your neighborhood, just call me. If I'm not busy, if
I'm not too big, I will do that. I have
been reading and by the time this show airs, the
headline will be a few days old. I've been reading
about our director of the National Institute of Health who
has been swimming with his family in fecal water. It's awesome.
It's awesome. What better metaphor could there be for our times?
As posted on NBC News on the twelfth of May,
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior posted
photos of himself and his grandchildren swimming in waters known
to be contaminated during a Mother's Day hike in Rock
Creek Park. In one of the photos from Sunday, Kennedy
is seen fully submerged in the water with his grandchildren
swimming in spite of an ongoing National Park Service advisory
against coming in contact with the water in the Washington
d C. Park quote due to high bacteria levels. The
same notice as swimming and waiting are not permitted due
to health risks. Stay out of the water to protect
stream banks, plants, and animals, and keep you and your family,
including pets, safe from illness. Rock Creek has high levels
of bacteria and other infectious pathogens that make swimming, waiting,
and other contact with the water hazard to human and
pet health, and there are photos of our FK Junior
and his grandchildren swimming in fecal matter. What better metaphor
for our times? FYI, Because of popular demand, that drawing
that I did for the Recovering from Real re Leigion
fundraiser last year, the drawing of my cat that Matt
Dillahunty tattooed to his leg when we reached a fundraising goal,
it is now merchandise. Somebody's like, put that on a
T shirt and I would buy it. And I couldn't
believe it. This was months ago. Are you kidding me? Yes? Please,
I must have this. They said, Well, I have made
an update finally to the Thinking Atheist store, the online store.
Go to the Thinkingatheist dot com and you'll see the
store tab and so I've added some stuff to it.
I've got the Thinking Atheist logo mug. The slogan says,
assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. I have T shirts.
There is a sweatshirt and oh my god, look at it.
It's cat and you can get the shirt in gray
or in white. I cannot believe people want to buy it,
but of okay, I made it available and it's on
a mug. Now you know, some people are like, well,
I'm going to pay eight bucks for a mug or
ten bucks and these are fourteen fifteen, sixteen. I can't
remember what the prices are. I ain't getting rich on
the store, you know what I'm saying. But the nature
of the beast is is that the provider, the fulfillment house,
takes their cut and then then the rest goes to me.
So there's like a wholesaler retailer retailer kind of thing.
So you know, it's not are they super cheap?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Are they super expensive? Note, but you have to think
of it in terms of supporting the channel and the
work and getting some swag along the way. So here
I am showing you. I've got the mugs, I've got
t shirts, I've got cat I've got a tote bag.
Oh look a mousepat stainless steel water bottle and all
that the Thinkingatheist dot com and then you click the
store tab. I didn't put the thing thinking Atheists on
the products themselves. And it's not because I'm a coward.
It's strategic because I like the idea of the logo
and the slogan as conversation starters. I've had people who
have contacted me, and they said, look, my religious parents
came over and we had coffee, and I served them
coffee in a thinking Atheist mug with your logo on
one side the thinking person icon with the A in it,
and then the other side it said assume nothing, question everything,
and start thinking. And my religious family members said, wow,
that's awesome. I think we should all be thinking. So
they were drinking heathen brew. I just thought that was awesome.
I just thought that was awesome. So anyway, the Thinkingatheist
dot com and then click on the shop icon taking
your calls on whatever subject is on your mind. The
number is in the show titled just dial me up
or use the weblink and let's talk. I've got nine
zero four Juno. Welcome Juno. Can you hear me?
Speaker 4: Yes? I can. How you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm well, let's talk what's on your mind?
Speaker 3: So I spent a lot of time yesterday on Blue Sky,
consuming far too much political content and had a bit
of a revelation this morning as a result of that,
and I'm hoping you can poke some holes in my hypothesis.
Speaker 4: My idea is.
Speaker 3: Well, for me, the standard for holding a public office
is being able to demonstrate empathy at that scale. So
if you want to be a mayor, you need to
be able to demonstrate having empathy for your entire city.
If you want to be president, then you need to
be able to hold the entire nature in.
Speaker 4: Your heart at once.
Speaker 3: The revelation I had this morning was that I hold
the same standard to claims of deities, because to me,
the Christian God at the very least does not demonstrate
empathy for his creation. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. I'm not sure if gods would be
required to be empathetic. Isn't our history or mythology rather
filled with the stories of angry gods?
Speaker 3: True? Yeah, and that's basically you know, a reason I
am an atheist. Yes, And I was really just hoping that,
you know, I gonna have somebody to bounce the idea
off of, to like find the hold and because it
feels too simple, you.
Speaker 2: Know, Oh, I think it's probably one piece of the
much larger puzzle. But would I expect a benevolent father
to act with benevolence? Would I want empathetic behaviors and
attitudes from an all powerful greed maure? Yeah, I certainly would.
I would take that over the cruelty and the vengefulness
and the judgment and the bigotry and the jealousy and
the hate and all that stuff. So, I mean, I
don't know that your position is flawed. I think it's
probably a much broader question. But this is certainly a
piece of that conversation. Sure, fair enough, all right, I think,
thanks Juno. Yep, all right, We'll see you soon. Thanks.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 2: Was it Elon Musk who said that empathy was a problem.
We see the oligarchs who were saying that. This is
an article from March of this year. Americans are still
in the dark about the scope and scale of what
Elon Musk is doing with DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency,
which isn't an official department, by the way, which is
working to drastically shrink the size of government by aiming
to cut a trillion or more dollars in government spending.
By the way, Sentences like that are examples of how
the media is failing us. That is from CNN. I'm sorry,
drastically shrink the size of government. I mean, this is messaging, right,
It's not about shrinking government. This is taking a machete
to critical civil service jobs. Science universities, the stuff that
societies need to function without consideration, and then wielding a
chainsaw on a stage wearing Hollywood sunglasses, gleefully saying that
you have you and your unelected dogebro minions who have
no security clearances and are largely acting in the shadows.
You've just given them access to six trillion dollars in
treasury funds and the social security information of three hundred
and sixty million American citizens. So I'm screaming at news
outlets like CNN, going Jesus Christ, do your job. They're
not working to drastically shrink the size of government with cuts.
This is a coup. It's a power grab. It is
a blatant violation of our norms, our laws, our constitution.
As the invertebrates in Congress sit there and allow it
all to take place. Do you guys see that four
hundred million dollar plane that Katar just gave to Donald Trump?
The memes are awesome, and Colter, conservative fire brand, goes
on social media and says, well, nobody griped whenever the
president was given the gift of the Statue of Liberty
my friends, and somebody rightly responded, Yeah, but he didn't
take the Statue of Liberty with him when he left office, right,
and that was a gift to the nation, not to
one dude. Meanwhile, Trump is telling everybody that austerity should
be the order of the day. Why should your children
play with thirty dolls when you could cut back with
the rising costs of everything from groceries to other items
to your mortgage everyday bills. Why in the world should
your children have thirty dolls when they could play with
only two. It's time for you to cut back. Oh
what a lovely half a billion dollar plane that is Jesus,
this blows my mind. Caitlin at nine seven zero, Hi,
are you there?
Speaker 4: Yes? In here?
Speaker 2: Welcome? What's on your mind?
Speaker 5: I guess what I'm struggling with right now is that
even if people who disagree with what's going on don't
talk about it. I live in kind of a wealthy,
white suburban town.
Speaker 3: And nobody ever wants to discuss what's going on.
Speaker 4: It brings me down.
Speaker 5: They tell me they don't watch the news.
Speaker 2: Hang on, I'm hearing that there is an echo on
the haulers, So I'm going to make a switch here.
Can you still hear me?
Speaker 4: Caitlin, it's a kid.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe that's better for everybody. My apologies.
Speaker 5: It sure seems like we're leading to a place that
the only option is violence. And I'm not under any
illusions that we would win that kind of scenario.
Speaker 4: I know that you just give a good speech about
what you do.
Speaker 3: To find hope, but are you having any success building
community with people who do want to take more action
or that are even willing discuss what's going on.
Speaker 2: I found what you have found. There are some people.
I always reference my tennis team because outside of the
thinking atheist community, my tennis community is who I see
the most of because I'm on like five teams, you know,
and I'm always on the court, and it's small talk.
We don't talk about the heavy stuff when we're waiting
to go out and warm up and play the match.
But I am well aware that there are magas all
over the place, and they used to be a little
more bold and vocal. And I don't think I'm projecting
when I say that they've gone strangely mute, like they're uncomfortable.
They're like, well, I can't really defend the guy. The
guy says, well, I don't know if I'll defend the Constitution, right,
he says In the ABC News interview, He's like, I
don't know. I mean, that's a lawyer thing. The man
took his oath, the presidential oath, to defend the constitution,
he tells the Atlantic. I run the country and the world.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: In the wake of a lot of this type of stuff,
I have noticed that the magas in my circle have
become a little less vocal. Self care remains a challenge,
which is why people need to go right now and
find the speech that I just released to YouTube called
Dissent is Our Duty. I took about ten minutes and
detailed some reasons to be encouraged. And these aren't fabricated.
They're not false. It's not pie in the sky, but
they are genuine things that are happening throughout the United
States that do give us reason to think that maybe
it's not all going to get flushed down the toilet.
Maybe there is some reason to hope. And in the meantime,
I think being an activist and fighting for what we
think is right and speaking out for the good, I
think that's good medicine. Just don't forget self care. Caitlin
don't forget to take care of you. Okay, too true.
Speaker 5: And I appreciated that speech, and I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2: I hope you have a good rest of your day.
You bet, you take care of yourself, Kaitlyn, Bye bye.
I enjoy doing live presentations. Something unique about having that
immediate feedback with a live audience. You know, if I
say something here, then I might get an email within
the hour or the next day. If I say something
that I think is funny, I don't know if anybody
else is laughing at all. I mean when you hear
about the recis monk who have been photoshopped in the
field next to me, I may be cracking up, but
I don't know if anybody else is. Maybe I'm just
amusing myself. But if I do the material, or if
I show something, if I'd have shown that photo to
a live audience, I would immediately know how it went over.
So anyway, I really do enjoy the chance plus to
connect with people. Speaking of conventions, I am going to
be on the road, helelp me pull up my own
calendar because I can never remember Seth Andrews dot come.
I am going to be speaking at Wichita Oasis going
to Kansas on June the first, that's a Sunday morning
at eleven. I'll be at the Nanocon event in Nashville,
the Nashville Nuns Conference July twenty sixth. Baja Cohn August eighth, ninth,
and tenth in Sarnia, Ontario. And I mentioned earlier that
getting through customs in to Canada and back was the
easiest I've ever gotten through customs. So if you're heading
from the States to Canada for the event, don't sweat
it all right. I wouldn't want to be somebody else
coming down here. But if you're in the States going
to Canada and back, I wouldn't sweat that at all.
That was piece of cake. And I'm looking forward to
going back to Sarnia, one of my favorite events of
the year. Details on these and other events the Thinkingatheist
dot com slash events Okay and beautiful people. We have
many more calls to take and many more conversations to have,
and we will continue right after this. Appreciate your support
so much on Patreon. Thank you for I don't know
whatever your partnership entails, whether it's a buck a show
or a buck a month, whatever, if you would like
to s bored me and the work Patreon dot com
slash Seth Andrews six one two. I don't see a name.
Who's this?
Speaker 4: This is a Seth Nelson Seth. You will believe it
a fellow Seth.
Speaker 2: There used to not be very many of us. I've
met more and more as I've gotten older, and I've
seen a few famous Seth's out there. Seth Rogan, Seth Myers,
et cetera. What's on your mind, Seth? What do you
want to talk about?
Speaker 4: Well, first, I would like to talk a little bit
about Trump. And I found a very really good article
that shared a Facebook that was called the Warning Was Real.
Trump's Executive Order confirms the move towards martial law by
Tony Pentomali and I just want to read the last
paragraph because I had something to say about it. He says,
Trump counts on your passivity. He counts on your fatigue.
That's why he moved in burst a flurry of orders,
each more authoritarian than the last, until the norm becomes submission.
We must not submit. The first time around, Trump tested
the waters by Faye Square, Portland Muslim band family separation.
This time he isn't testing, he's executing. The streets are
being militarized, Civilian oversight is being gutted, law enforcement is
being deputized as the federal government's domestic army, and the
groundwork for invoking the Insurrection Act is already finished. If
Trump formally declares it, there will be no need for
panic because the tanks, the raids, the silencing, the descent,
and the crushing of opposition will already be in place.
That is not a future threat, This is a present reality.
Sneak resist now, not next month, not after the next outrage,
not after the next court loss. Now. Now, I would
disagree with one thing. I think protesting is speaking won't
do much of anything now because people are already being
punished for descent. It's essentially thought crimes. Especially with Trump's
anti Christian bis initiative. People are being sent to a
foreign consecration camp with no due process for protesting genocide
and gaza. And yeah about due process. Freedom, speech is gone,
freedom assembly is gone, freedom the press is gone. I mean,
if people don't believe that we are dealing with focal
o flaxis government being put in place, you're delusional, because
we're looking at the form of it, the squash descent
to punish anyone who doesn't fall in mine. And as
much as I'd like to see Trump die before its terminal,
I don't think we can wait for that. And no
people who say, oh, we should kill him, no one
tyrants death isn't going to help. There needs to be
a clean swip of the entire house full of traders
to our country, Trump, beth Elon, RFK, et cetera, the
majority of the Drumans administration and the Christian nationalist people
in power. I think we need to find a way
to sentence them all the death, the way the treaders
have often been dealt with in history, send a message,
if not by our own country. Let's get some black
ops soldiers from any allies we have left, or just
from the Simony and Adam take care of it. We
can't let this get any further. Trump is so found
that Putin, he's setting us up to be taken over
by Putin.
Speaker 2: All right, let me jump in. I have to strongly
stand against any call for assassinations. This is not how
we solve the problem. It's no different than Roger Stone
saying that you know the enemies of Trump should be assassinated.
That's not our solution. And I resist any call to
go out and execute the entire freaking Republican Party, or
the sick of fans, or the mags or whatnot. I
think they have sacrificed their humanity. We can sacrifice ours.
I want to know, from your perspective, if the free
press is under attack, and if descent is being squashed,
why would the free press speaking freely and protest in
the streets not be a message of defiance against the tyrants.
Wouldn't that type of protest and dissent be important?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm not saying it's not important. That's not
my issue. I'm just saying that if it's being punished,
then how can we then what it feels like this
set isn't enough, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think lawlessness is the answer. I mean,
some people think we need to storm the best steel.
I myself think that is I just don't think we
beat them by becoming them. And this is a hot
button conversation. A lot of people are like, well, they're
in the gutter. We're going to have to get in
the gutter to deal with them one on one. To
I face to face. I just I resist the idea
that as we have been condemning all of the violence
against our fellow human beings, that then we begin to
excuse it in our own camp. And I think there
is merit to nonviolent protest. I think when sixty Minutes
does a fearless expose of the protection racket that's being
run by the Trump administration, even as CBS is being
sued by the Trump White House, that defiance is important,
and I think it gives courage and power to other
disseminators of information and investigative reporters out there. I think
when five million people show up for the April fifth
Hands Off demonstration, there is messaging taking place. This impacts
the perspectives and perhaps empowers other people to stand up
at the local, regional, state, and national level. I think
it sends a message to their elected representatives, holy shit,
you better not ignore us. I mean, we've seen the
people at the town hall meetings, the Republicans, the mag is,
the Trump sick of fans come out and they try
to sell the party line, and even his own constituents
or her own constituents are standing up and going this
is a bunch of bullshit, and they're doing it so
much that the elected representatives are walking out of the
room because they can't handle it or don't want to.
And I think there is merit to that make them squirm,
make them uncomfortable. I think there is such a thing
as good trouble. I don't think assassinating the people we
oppose is going to fix it.
Speaker 4: That's just me, I'm hearriet, I just I just feel
it's really hard to feel like the protest is going
to help when they're actively you know, no, I get it,
just when they can actively punish it, when they can
actively find you out and go and go, oh, nope,
you're going to jail.
Speaker 2: Well, let me say this much in my defense, if
I may, I have seen enough of a resistance at
the judicial level to make me think that perhaps the
courts aren't going to totally fail us, that they may
come in and begin doing a proper defense of the
letter of the law. Even the Supreme Court. But John
Roberts at the Helm is starting to shift a little bit.
You can see there's some resistance. There's infighting within Maga
cult and to a degree that infighting that internal civil
war may actually help us. I know there's a lot
of stuff that is happening, but I sure would like
to see more of it. I'd like to see it louder.
I don't want to see us go out and set
fire to the houses of those we oppose. I just
don't think that's the solution to our problem. The challenge is,
I don't know what the solution is. It's messy, it's sticky.
I wish I had a better answer for you. But
that's just my perspective, and I know our audience welcomes
yours as well and shares your frustration.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you for talking to me.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry if I come across as kind of
sounding like I'm like some kind of violent line lunatics. No, no, no, no,
I get it.
Speaker 2: I mean I feel it. Some people have said somebody
needs to take Donald Trump out. Remember when he was
at that big outdoor events and the bullet grazed to
bosedly grazed his ear. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but
even now, that story just doesn't wash. Like his ear
healed up within twenty four hours, there's something wrong with it.
And then he's you know, selling shot glasses with bullets
in him. Meanwhile, no one's talking about the firefighter who
took a bullet and died at the scene. It's the
whole thing's obscene. But there were a lot of folks
that were like, man, just a few inches and we'd
have been rid of him. And I'm like, no, no,
he would have been a martyr.
Speaker 4: And then yes, that is something I genuinely thought myself,
is that it is if you take him. That's one
of the things I worried about, is because there's so
many people on the MAGA side that just worship this
guy that we would make him out of him if
he's gone. Well, but I do still wonder why did
the guy bother to double tap? He would he would
have he would have done it.
Speaker 2: I'm uncomfortable one of us is getting a visit from
the Secret Service before this is all over. Dude, I'm
one of those guys who thinks, is it James Fell
who said cholesterol you have one job? That's how I
feel about it. You know, when he's doing a live
press conference, all of a sudden, you know, he grabs
his chest and it's over. If it had if it's
going to happen. I think it has to happen that way.
You just reminded me of a piece that James published
that I'm going to have to read for everybody. Just
know that a lot of folks share your frustration. I'm
this is a forum where you con vent in safety anytime.
Speaker 4: Okay, seth okay, yeah, I just I'm just saying, like,
if the guy actually wanted to succeed, why he could
have Why did he only fire one?
Speaker 2: I get it, I get it, all right, all right,
that's all right, all right, thanks for Collins. We'll see
you later.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm you know, I'm not that guy, and I
know the emotional part of us, you know, I know it.
Just it would feel good. Let me find that post
by James Fell. Okay, yes, here it is. Oh I
must read this for you. It'll take me probably ten minutes.
But it's written with such James Fell type verbiage that
I think you will be interested in it. It posted
May the thirteenth, nine forty five a m. On his
Facebook page. It's titled when he Dies, he said. Eloquent
quotes tend to find their way to more famous mouths
and are often altered in the process you've likely read
I've never wished a man dead, but I have read
some obituaries with great pleasure and seen it attributed to
Mark Twain. The original quote did not arise until more
than two decades after Twain's death, and reads I have
never killed anyone, but I have read some obituary notices
with great protraction. It was written by Clarence Darrow, the
lawyer who defended John Scopes for teaching evolution back in
nineteen twenty five. The adapted version is far more relatable.
Most people have never killed a fellow human, so it
sets few a part to assert this. But in our
highly divisible society, many a pearl clutcher wishes to proclaim
that they've never wished anyone dead. I've wished him dead
every fucking day for the last decade, and I will
dance a motherfucking last boy Scout jig when it finally happens.
What happens after he dies depends on both the how
and the when. Let us begin with when don't hold
your breath despite being demented as fuck and incapable of
spewing more than a semicogent word salad and frequently doing
the lowie body lean. He appears relatively hail When humans
have access to the best healthcare on the planet, we
don't die easy. He's still ambulatory and can still cheat
at golf. Expecting him to drop dead in the next
year is the most wishful of thinking. They'll pump him
full of drugs to keep his cholesterol in, blood pressure
and check, and he'll likely keep on destroying democracy for
years to come. In my non medical, but unfortunately experiential opinion,
he appears at least five years away from becoming undeniably
enfeebled to the point of needing long term care, at
which point he'll probably last another five or so years.
Sorry to be the bearer Vadnue, but I expect it
will be another decade before he finally kicks. But what
if it happened sooner. I know plenty of people would
love the two Amo sexuals to security of the free state,
the motherfucker, but the fallout would be a nightmare. Do
you want a martyr, because that's how you get a
martyr and a civil war. The killer could have Maga
tattooed on his eyeballs and the cult would still say
he was a Democrat. The cult is violent and deranged.
It wouldn't be an organized state versus state, let's use
capital letters civil war, but rather an ongoing and horrific
uprising that would give the new couchfucker in chief overwhelming
authority to militarily oppress everyone. The cult already considers him
a demigod, getting jfkaid with having standing next to Jesus
and proclaiming a new Holy Quaternity root for KFC not
two two three. We want McDonald's doing the job, not Macbeth.
A lightning bolt during a live speech would be nice
if we're looking for a lottery win. Marjorie Taylor Green
would surely blame the Jewish space laser, but it would
be nonetheless poetic. I myself would like a massive schemic
event that didn't kill him, but seriously gort his ass,
unable to walk or speak, but just flail and drool.
It would go a long way to breaking the spell
as he withered. Considering how much suffering he has caused.
I don't blame those who wish suffering be returned upon him,
but his lingering moment is not my motivation. As I mentioned,
it's about breaking the spell and not making him a martyr,
a dead before he hits the ground. Heart attack might
do partial work of martyring him, as the cult would
likely proclaim that we were the cause of it by
being so mean to him. He gave his life for
the office, and those dirty demon rats did everything they
could to prevent him from making things greatly racist again,
and his tremendous, bigly heart finally could take no more
giving and giving and giving, and it gave out. Some
would surely proclaim it was poison, but it wouldn't lead
to war the way an assassin's bullet would. I'll take
the massive mitocardial infarction, but a stroke would be better.
A lingering enfeeblement would help shut the followers the fuck
up more than a quick death. If you believe me, morbid,
I care the square roots of fuck all. James Fell's
writing style, it reminds me of Sybe Relliant. It just
makes me laugh. He's one of the the worst men alive,
and the world will be a better place when he's
gone because there isn't another cult leader ready to take
his place, and he didn't build a structure to last
beyond himself. L Ron Hubbard was a cult leader, but
he built scientology to last beyond his death and created
a system that keeps people locked into it. Same for Mormonism.
Joseph Smith created a church before being martyred, so there
was a powerful leader in Brigham Young waiting in the
wings to keep it going. MAGA may be a cult,
but Project twenty twenty five isn't a holy book, and
there's no church or initiation or rituals to continue to
bind people together beyond his death. It's just red hats
and a stupid four word saying that loosely binds people
together via shared hatreds. The real power is in the
worshiping of one man. So long as he's not made
a martyr, the cult won't last long past his demise
or significant debilitation. The GOP remains beholden to his every
whim because of the power of the cult, Every lawmaker
craves the retention of their power and their privilege more
than anything else, and defying the cult leader incurs the
wrath of the followers, resulting in political death. His followers
won't care near as much if lawmakers defy a newly
installed captain guyliner because they don't worship him. The perceived
strong man who is seen as both an every man
as well as an exceptional man is rare. Indeed, such
a leader is viewed as a man of the people,
and to go against him is to be an enemy
of the people. Such rulers are uncommon, but when they arise,
they can bind tens of millions together in a com
and hateful cause. Currently, there is no number two piece
of shit to whom the torch can be passed, no
institutionalization of this cult of hatred to keep them all
in Thrall. Things will not miraculously be all better if
the fatty deposits in his blood vessels suddenly stop the
transport of oxygen to his brain, but they would still
be better. Some proclaim things would not improve at all,
or perhaps even get worse under the reign of Vladimir
Futon creating his own Ottoman empire. But I don't see it.
Worm Tongue doesn't have legions of adoring fans who are
sofa king willing to taze their balls to death while
storming the capitol in his name, then neither does anyone else.
Speaking of January sixth, what would have been most preferable
was him rotting in a prison cell. But the ass
dragging Merrick Garland due processed America right out of due process.
The power of the hate cult is what got us
into this mess. America was never great. It experiences varying
degrees of in shitification, and right now it's at peak
shitty and getting more excremental each day. A couple of
clogged arteries could set the nation on a path towards
something a bit less made of poop. Come on, cholesterol,
James Fell, he cracks me up. He's got a book
that came out a few years ago where he chronicles
various moments in history in his own unique and often
profane way. In the book is appropriately titled On this
day in History, shit went down. And I would have
paid real money to be given the chance to narrate
that sucker, because I would have totally void for him.
I should have volunteered. I'm sure I don't even know
who he had narrated, but you know, that sounds like
a project I'd like to be a part of because
it's fun to read. As you can tell, I really
enjoy myself when I read his material on the show,
Him and the Sybabe. Can I link that I'll throw
it in the throw it in the chat, and I'll
mail try to remember to go back and put it
in the show notes when in the broadcast goes out,
Robert has posted and eurysm twenty twenty eight. Yeah, I
think that's a better solution. I've got four three four.
Thank you so much for calling the show. Who's this?
Speaker 4: Hey said?
Speaker 5: This is Tim. I actually talked to you a couple
of weeks ago. I'm so happy that I got this
part of the show because it kind of falls into
line of what you guys were talking about. I told
you while back, I came from someplace that was very conservative,
that made Oklahoma looks secular. Actually live in Lynchburg, Virginia.
I grew up literally next door to Jerry Folwell. I
knew him on a first name basis, all that kind
of stuff. And I think of like Trump. And I'm
going to push back on a little of something you
said in the last time we talked, where you said
I asked you about Mosca, Menicome and knowing the enemy,
and I'm going to push back. I don't necessarily know
if Trump is the enemy. I think Trump is more
of the mouthpiece of the enemy. Which is bad ideology.
And I think growing up I was in IFB church
and we had a lot of splits in church. The
way you get the split is not by going after
the pastor. It's by picking off the low hanging fruit
and getting people on your side and hey, the pastor
is wrong on this. And I think that that would
be in addition to peaceful protest. I think that would
be a great way. I know you've helped me come
out and tell my family I'm an atheist, and my
wife said, I'm an atheist. I mean many different things.
I think that we need to have conversations with people
because them isn't necessarily the person, it's the idea. I mean,
look at Chay Gavara, like you said about if somebody
was to do something to the president. You can kill
a man, you can't kill an idea. And I just
wanted to see what your thoughts were on it.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure I understand which part you're pushing
back on. What was the statement I made when you
disagree with your statement?
Speaker 5: When you got off, I said, you know I talked
to you about Naska and Menicum and knowing thy enemy
and your ending of it. You were talking about is
Trump my enemy? And you kind of seem to go
back and forth, and your final statement was Trump is
your enemy. And when I said, you really made me
think about it, like, you know, well, is this person
really my enemy? I think he's just a mouthpiece. I
think he's just the person that's out there spewing ideas,
and it's the people that give him the power. It's not.
I mean, Jerry fall would would have been nothing if
his church was small. So I feel like we can
combat the ideology more than we can necessarily combating the people.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I can divorce the two. If I'm
a person who is bigoted because I have anti LGBT ideas,
then if I may be a toxic person, I may.
Maybe I'm brainwashed. There could be a number of reasons
that I have the belief that I have. But if
you know I am an agent of anti democracy, if
I am a proponent of cruelty and all those types
of things because I have bad ideas, then I, as
a human being, must be opposed. I mean that is
that fair?
Speaker 5: I think that I think that sometimes and I've noticed
this with people, is we tend to talk past each other,
and instead of going after the big topics, you know,
start challenging people in the small ones that jet from
cutter is do you feel like that's a good idea?
Should we take something like that?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 5: And sometimes you can slowly bring people around. If you
just drop a frog in hot water, they jump right
back out. You got to you can't just go in
there and say, well, you know, Trump's a terrible person.
But I've even noticed in my community Lynchburg, Virginia, the
most Christian place you can be, I've even noticed some
people opening up to well, I don't really like this,
you know, and I, yeah, that's not a great idea,
And I think that's how we open the door. But
I think that a lot of times when we go
for the real, hard hitting issues, we talk past each other.
And I feel like we need to start with those
small issues where people aren't so defensive, and work our
way up to those bigger and bigger issues, because a
lot of times when you hit a hard issue with
somebody and I don't like Trump, their immediate reaction is
to get defensive and feel like you're attacking them personally.
But if you start with how do you feel about
this particularly anti Christian bias policy or this do you
feel like Christians are persecuted? And by the way, I'm
also the guy that wrote you letter. I'm pushing for
this all across the internet. The Young Holy Trinity needs
to be in the White House face.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you and I agree. I think you know.
I gave a speech last year about how identity beliefs
and people hold on to many of these ideas for
emotional reasons, Identity branded onto them, often from youth. People
can be the proponents of bad ideas while also be
the victims of bad ideas. And I've been doing a
little bit of the same. When Donald Trump said he
didn't know if he would defend the Constitution, that was
actually a question that I asked of someone who was
a Trump supporter, and it was a way in. It wasn't,
oh my god, this man's an enemy of the Constitution.
I said, did you hear that interview that he did
on ABC where he said he didn't know if he
would defend the United States Constitution while the presidential oath
says that this is one of his main jobs. Did
you see that and what's your perspective? And it shifts
the burden onto them without making them feel unsafe.
Speaker 5: I think you and I agree, oh absolutely, one hundred percent.
One that I've used just in the last day or
two is the suspension of habeas corpus. Most people have
no idea what that is, and they're looking at it
from this perspective of who we want to use this on? Immigrants? Yeah,
but that applies to us too, and it's one of
those you know, where does the madness stop at that point?
And sometimes you can bring people around on those small ideas.
And I think we as individuals, yes, protest is good, civilized, peaceful,
Let's get on the media. Let's let the media know
there is another side out there. But I also think
it can start with just talking to somebody, one person.
If we can get one person more on our side,
you know.
Speaker 4: Think about it.
Speaker 5: If everybody out there who's on the opposition of the
Republican Party, if we can at every five people, you
get one more person, well that's enough to sway the
balance of power. So I think that one of the
things we could do is just try to be more
willing to approach people and talk to things about it.
Speaker 2: If you can convert one in five. I want your autograph.
Speaker 4: I know that was a.
Speaker 2: Run for you need to run for some high office
or starter religion ors. You've got more power than I've
ever seen, but I appreciate your kindness. Kindness is not weakness,
Consideration is not being a sellout. And you know, a
lot of times I think the high profile public figures
deserve when we go hard after him. And I think
there's utility in ridiculing people in power who are using
that power to oppress. We're essentially stripping them of the
seriousness that they want to embrace for themselves. But in
the one on ones, I agree, I don't walk in
and say fuck you, maga. If the goal is to
try to open their minds or bring them out of
the cult, it's going to cause them to double down, lockdown,
fight flight, or freeze. We have to provide more of
a I know people hate it when I say this,
but we have to create an atmosphere where there is
a little more safety, where they can have those moments
of consideration while being confronted with opposing ideas. And so
I mean there's merit to that. So I think you
and I largely line up on that.
Speaker 5: My friend, well, growing up in an IFB church, you know,
we were taught homosexuality was wrong. I met a guy
who was homestid. The guy's great, He's a wonderful human being,
and I realized that the only reason I felt that
way is because that's what I was raised in. That's
what my parents taught me to be. I mean, you
can probably relate to this. I know a lot of
people that are racist just because their family is racist.
They can't provide a good reason for not liking a
group of people. And I think that that's part of
the problem is a lot of these people have been
indoctrinated in this idea, coming up. These young voters, you know,
the twenty somethings, the thirty somethings were raised by people
that had this ideology. But when you approached them directly,
they can't really give you a good reason other than
this is the way I was raised.
Speaker 2: It's an identity, it's unconsidered, and it's often human nature.
Tribalism is links back to our primate past. We are
all meat covered skeletons. Who are you know, for better
and worse? Evolutionarily linked to our primate past. And I
think understanding tribalism and how that type of thing happens
is important, and I think it will help tool us
up for conversations we're having with other tribes as well.
I appreciate your call, my friend. It was some pleasure
to speak to you again.
Speaker 4: Keep doing the good work, sir.
Speaker 2: All right, thanks for calling. I'm releasing a video maybe
next month or the month after with Drew McCoy, who
is the host of Genetically Modified Skeptic, and he has
been speaking a lot about how he approaches believers with
kindness whenever possible. And you know, Drew's got this really relaxed,
kind of an easy way about him. You know, he
puts people at ease, at rest, he makes them feel calm.
And some people oppose his approach because they think it's weak,
and we were talking about that, and I just don't
think kindness is weakness. Often kindness is strength. I'm not
saying we sing kumbbai Ya with racists, but I do
think we have to walk in as creatures of consideration
to figure out, well, how did this happen? What is
their background, what are the gears in the machine, How
do we fix the machine? How can we empower them?
To do some self reflection because it has happened. You're
listening to somebody who came out of a Fox News
rush Limbaugh and Coulter Jesus is a capitalist conservative evangelicalism
and I escaped. Maybe there's hope for other people as well.
That's all I'm saying. And I think it's fair. Okay,
this seems like an appropriate time to get into some
of the science regards beliefs in the brain. We've been
talking a lot about why we bring facts to people
and people just don't care. There is a professor at
the University of Connecticut, doctor Keith Belizi. He is a
professor of gerontology in the Department of Human Development and
Family Sciences, and he pends an article for the college
called Cognitive Biases and Brain Biology help explain why facts
don't change minds. So I'm going to read that for
you in just a second. From the University of Connecticut,
Professor of Human Development and Family Sciences, doctor Keith Belizi
wrote a piece about beliefs the brain and why facts
just seem to bounce off people when we are bringing
good data to them and then we get mad frustrated.
Maybe it's the word why isn't this making a dent?
He wrote a piece called Cognitive biases and brain biology
help explain why facts don't change minds? Let me read this,
we'll get some science. Doctor Belizi says this facts First
is the tagline of a cn IN branding campaign, which
contends that once facts are established, opinions can be formed.
The problem is that while it sounds luckiable, this appealing
assertion is a fallacy not supported by research. Cognitive psychology
and neuroscience studies have found that the exact opposite is
often true. When it comes to politics. People form opinions
based on emotions such as fear, contempt, and anger, rather
than relying on facts. New facts often do not change
people's minds. I study human developp in public health and
behavior change. In my work, I see firsthand how hard
it is to change someone's mind and behaviors when they
encounter new information that runs counter to their beliefs. Your worldview,
including beliefs and opinion, starts to form during childhood as
you're socialized within a particular cultural context. It gets reinforced
over time by the social groups you keep, the media
you consume, and even how your brain functions. It influences
how you think of yourself and how you interact with
the world. For many people, a challenge to their worldview
feels like an attack on their personal identity and can
cause them to harden their position. Here's some of the
research that explains why it's natural to resist changing your
mind and how you can get better at making these shifts.
In an ideal world, rational people who encounter new evidence
that contradicts their beliefs would evaluate the facts and change
their views accordingly, but that's generally not how things go
in the real world. Partly to blame is a cognitive
bias that can kick in when people encounter evidence that
runs counter to their beliefs. Instead of reevaluating what they've
believed up until now, people tend to reject the incompatible evidence.
Psychologists call this phenomenon belief perseverance. Everyone can fall prey
to this ingrained way of thinking. Being presented with facts,
whether via the news, social media, or one on one
conversations that suggest their current beliefs are wrong, causes people
to feel threatened. This reaction is particularly strong when the
beliefs in question are aligned with your political and personal identities.
It can feel like an attack on you if one
of your strongly held beliefs is challenged. Confronting facts that
don't line up with your worldview may trigger a backfire effect,
which can end up strengthening your original position and beliefs,
particularly with politically charged issues. Researchers have identified this phenomenon
in a number of studies, including ones about opinions toward
climate change mitigation policies and attitudes toward childhood vaccinations. There's
another cognitive bias that can get in the way of
changing your mind, called confirmation bias. It's the natural tendency
to seek out information or interpret things in a way
that supports your existing beliefs. Interacting with like minded people
and media reinforces confirmation bias. The problem with confirmation bias
is that it can lead to errors in judgment because
it keeps you from looking at a situation objectively from
multiple angles. A twenty sixteen Gallup poll provides a great
example of this bias. In just one two week period
spanning the twenty sixteen election, both Republicans and Democrats drastically
changed their opinions about the state of the economy in
opposite directions, and There's a chart that is posted in
the article rating the economy before and after the twenty
six election. Before Donald Trump was put in office, most
Republicans said the economy was getting worse. As soon as
he was elected, they said it was getting better. And
there was a somewhat similar reverse effect with the Democrats. Yeah,
doctor Belize writes, but nothing was new with the economy.
What had changed was that a new political leader from
a different party had been elected. The election outcome changed
survey respondents interpretation of how the economy was doing. A
confirmation bias led Republicans to rate it much higher now
that their guy would be in charge. Democrats the opposite.
Cognitive biases are predictable patterns in the way people think
that can keep you from objectively weighing evidence and changing
your mind. Some of the basic ways your brain works
can also work against you on this front. Your brain
is hardwired to protect you, which can lead to reinforcing
your opinions and beliefs even when they're misguided. Winning a
debate or an argument triggers a flood of hormones, including
dopamine and adrenaline, in your brain. They contribute to the
feeling of pleasure you get during sex, eating, roller coaster rides,
and yes, winning an argument. That rush makes you feel good,
maybe even invulnerable. It's a feeling many people want to
have more often moreover, in situations of high stress or distressed,
your body releases another hormone, cortissoul. It can hijack your
advanced thought processes, reason, and logic, what psychologists call the
executive functions of your brain. Your brain's amygdala becomes more active,
which controls your innate fight or flight reaction when you
feel under threat. In the context of communication, people tend
to raise their voice, push back, and stop listening when
these chemicals are coursing through their bodies. Once you're in
that mindset, it's hard to hear another viewpoint. The desire
to be right, combined with the brain's protective mechanisms, make
it that much harder to change opinions and beliefs, even
in the presence of new information. In spite of the
cognitive biases and brain biology that make it hard to
change minds, there are ways to short circuit these natural habits.
Work to keep an open mind, allow yourself to learn
new things, search out perspectives from multiple sides of an issue.
Try to form and modify your opinions based on evidence
that is accurate, objective, and verified. Don't let yourself be
swayed by outliers. For example, give more weight to the
numerous doctors and public health officials who describe the preponderance
of evidence that vaccines are safe and effective, and what
you give to one fringe doctor on a podcast to
suggest the opposite. Be wary of repetition, as repeated statements
are often perceived as more truthful than new information, no
matter how false the claim may be. Social media manipulators
and politicians know this all too well. Presenting things in
a non confrontational way allows people to evaluate new information
without feeling attacked. Insulting others and suggesting someone is ignorant
or misinformed, no matter how misguided their beliefs may be,
will cause the people you're trying to influence to reject
your argument. Instead, try asking questions that lead the person
to question what they believe. While opinions may not ultimately change,
the chance of success is greater. Recognize we all have
these tendencies and respectfully listen to other opinions. Take a
deep breath and pause when you feel your body ramping
up for a fight. Remember it's okay to be wrong
at times. Life can be a process of growth. And
again that's the article by doctor Keith Belizi of the
University of Connecticut, Cognitive biases and brain biology help explain
why facts don't change minds, And being along with you
on the front lines of many of these conversations and
having felt the frustrations of the brick wall brains, I
understand why you might not even want to start. I
found myself thinking nothing's going to make a dent. I've
for ten years have said, well, this will be the
breaking point, and it just wasn't. You know, oh, this
will cause people to wake up from the coma, and
it just wasn't.
Speaker 4: And so I get it.
Speaker 2: If you decide not to engage and perhaps focus on
other targets, for lack of a better word, other opportunities
out there. But if you do find yourself, if I
find myself in direct proximity to somebody who is holding
onto a horrible idea, maybe there's some information here about
brain science that might help us not only influence someone
else's thinking toward better perceptions, better ideas, but maybe even
make us more self reflective. We are all flawed, fallible
human beings, and we can all be wrong. In being
aware of that, I think is probably one of the
best defenses. Okay, a bonus show is coming up here
later this week. I recently guest hosted, or I was
a guest on the God Awful Movies broadcast with No Illusions.
He then right, and Eli Bosnik and these guys irreverently
review Christian movies, and Christian movies are not as bad
as you think they're worse. I mean, they're just so
bad they're actually epic. And the GAM the God Awful
Movies guys review Christian movies, and they were up to
like show five hundred, and they invited me back for
a nineteen eighty classic called The Second Coming, an apocalypse
film that again featured bunch of stuffy preachers selling fear,
and so we aired that show. I guess it's been
a couple of months, and I asked the guys if
I could rebroadcast it here because we have a lot
of audience members who haven't heard of GAM or haven't
yet been over there, and I just thought it'd be
fun to signal boost it. So you may have already
heard it on the other channel, but in a few
days for free to everybody, patrons, etc. It's going to
go out on this channel and it's big fun and
so that's coming up in just a few days. Just
something extra to listen to. And I will see you
back here officially next week. Be safe, take care, see
you soon.
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