1 00:00:01,439 --> 00:00:05,839 Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thanks for coming to Middle 2 00:00:05,879 --> 00:00:09,199 Earth with us. We got a nice spicy review and 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,320 in the Lord of the Rings vein, I am one 4 00:00:11,359 --> 00:00:14,519 of your hosts at the Hammer Hand Kirkland Patzer. 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: Hello, I am the Shield Maiden Dylan Muss. 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 7 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 2: I don't know if I can claim that I'll allow 8 00:00:22,519 --> 00:00:24,519 you to have it today, but yes, ladies and gentlemen, 9 00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:25,960 it's just Dylan and I for this. 10 00:00:27,199 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: Honestly, I feel like it's a much anticipated review, At 11 00:00:30,719 --> 00:00:32,880 least for myself. I was very much looking forward to 12 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,200 this movie ever since we first heard about it. I 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,000 feel like we kept getting some deats just through the grapevine, 14 00:00:39,079 --> 00:00:42,679 slowly but surely, and yeah, it's finally here, Dylan and Iron. 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,719 You'll hear our thoughts shortly. But before we get in 16 00:00:45,759 --> 00:00:49,159 all that, we got a couple of things to plug well. 17 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaking of reviews we got, this is just like the 18 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,439 month of reviews. It feels we got Creature Commandos. Taylor 19 00:00:55,479 --> 00:00:58,479 and I are dropping those every week, along with Star 20 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,759 Wars Skeleton Crew. I think both of those are on 21 00:01:04,079 --> 00:01:06,200 episode four now, so it's yeah, they're kind of going 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,000 ou at the same pace. We have Craven review just 23 00:01:10,079 --> 00:01:15,120 dropped that was that was a time and then we're 24 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,079 we haven't released the first episode for Dexter schedules ended 25 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,200 up getting it all just jam packed. It's you know, 26 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,560 it goes to show how busy our month is. We 27 00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:25,799 don't even have time to all jump on the first episode, 28 00:01:25,799 --> 00:01:27,799 but we'll be jumping at least some of us on 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,599 next week's episode. Will be dropping our thoughts. For episode 30 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,959 one and two, it'll probably just be me and Taylor. 31 00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:36,879 I think you're yeah, I don't pull the pin on 32 00:01:36,879 --> 00:01:37,120 that one. 33 00:01:37,159 --> 00:01:38,159 Speaker 2: I don't think I'll be joining. 34 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:40,799 Speaker 1: That's fair. We're so jamming. 35 00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:44,519 Speaker 2: Maybe i'll dex what was the old Blood Red Blood? 36 00:01:44,519 --> 00:01:48,920 What the heck was the last show? Yeah? Where I 37 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,159 joined for the finale only I don't know. Okay, maybe 38 00:01:51,159 --> 00:01:53,159 I'll do that surprise pick where I just binge the 39 00:01:53,159 --> 00:01:55,719 show for my holiday break and then join you guys 40 00:01:55,719 --> 00:01:56,799 for the finale. I don't know. 41 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: Perfect well, we'll have you, uh, if you want to 42 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,000 go in, come in at anytime. But we also got 43 00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:05,400 what if is going to be coming out? I believe 44 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,599 the week of Christmas that'll be. I think we're just 45 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,439 going to be doing like a Collaboration room. 46 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, once again the daily drops, so I guess it'll 47 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,240 be finished until the new year. So maybe just reviewed. 48 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,879 Speaker 1: After what else? I feel like I'm missing. 49 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 2: September five, you did a solo review, Yes, September five. 50 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,599 Speaker 1: I don't forget what it's interested in that movie, and 51 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:24,840 a lot of people know about that one. 52 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:27,159 Speaker 2: But you've got to go galled from Rings of Power 53 00:02:27,159 --> 00:02:30,159 in there, so the Rings connection in the weirdest way possible. 54 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: If you love that one character from Rings of Power 55 00:02:33,439 --> 00:02:35,400 that we did that one. He's a very minor character 56 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:35,960 in the movie. 57 00:02:36,039 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 2: And then yeah, on Tuesday, Side Quest Tuesday, you're gonna 58 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,439 get two episodes this week. You're gonna get Lord or 59 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,319 Lord of Indiana Jones, I don't know where that came from. 60 00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:45,520 And the great Circle review from me and Taylor. And 61 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,080 then we also have Game Awards recap, talking about the announcements, 62 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,840 talking about the awards a little bit and all that. 63 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,840 So good Side Quest double double hitter next week. 64 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:57,199 Speaker 1: Nice yes, And then newscasts you know it's we we 65 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,639 just did a juicy one and then sounds like we 66 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,400 got a lot of juicy stuff piling up, and I 67 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,039 think we're gonna be doing another newscast this next week, 68 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,080 So it's we're ending off the year with a with 69 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,120 a big bang, that's for sure. And yeah, the best 70 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,280 place to get all that content is on our Patreon 71 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,759 where you can get everything early, ad free, exclusive, exclusive, 72 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:23,800 We got exclusive content for you also exclusive, yes, and yeah, 73 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,000 it's just the best place to support us. Thank you 74 00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:28,039 for the banner. We got our patron producers at the 75 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,560 highest here, we got Aaron Braden, April of Darkness, Jack Grant, 76 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,919 Mud Sam, Super Bad, Mic Good, God Loves Me sixty nine, 77 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,719 Jeremy Renner, and our newest one, Charlie Randall. So thank 78 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:41,039 you to all of our supporters. If you listen to 79 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,719 us anywhere, we all we love you, but definitely are 80 00:03:44,199 --> 00:03:46,319 our patrons and at the highest tier with the most 81 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,919 support for us, our patron produces. Absolutely, we are a 82 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,560 indie you know we're we're indie podcast studio. I know 83 00:03:53,599 --> 00:03:55,960 it doesn't really like I feel like indy for me. 84 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:02,280 I just think it's the background, right, it's the squares 85 00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:04,400 we were commenting on the off screen before we started. 86 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,680 But it's a yeah, nice professional but I think that's 87 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,759 kind of the main meat and potatoes. We got our bread, 88 00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:14,800 we got our butter. We're here to talk, Yes, a 89 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,920 Middle Earth Lord of the Rings, War of the Row 90 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:22,040 here him. And they're definitely piggybacking on the Lord of 91 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,560 the Rings title. There's a lot of you know, we 92 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,399 get live action shots and the trailers of characters that 93 00:04:28,439 --> 00:04:32,000 aren't even in this movie. When this movie started, it 94 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,639 just said the Lord of the Rings, you know. A 95 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,639 couple seconds later then it comes in with the sub 96 00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:38,439 title the War of the Row herem, and you know 97 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,480 a couple other things that are kind of nods towards 98 00:04:40,519 --> 00:04:42,040 the Lord of the Rings, And it just feels like 99 00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:44,639 it's really like wanting to carry that wave of the 100 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,360 marketing sphere. I get it. I totally understand it, but 101 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:53,360 you know, just story wise, it seems a little bit unnecessary. 102 00:04:53,399 --> 00:04:54,600 But here we are, Dylan, we got War of the 103 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,959 Row here him. How did First of all, I want 104 00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:00,240 to hear your thoughts non spoilers, but also just careious 105 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,439 what the theater like vibe was like. Was was there 106 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,000 a lot of Lord of the Ring heads in there? 107 00:05:05,079 --> 00:05:08,920 Was it pretty jam packed? Was it just a ghost town? 108 00:05:08,959 --> 00:05:11,480 Nobody was even there to I don't know knew this 109 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:12,160 was coming. 110 00:05:11,959 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: Up yeah, no one. No one dressed up in a 111 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,439 wizard costume, which I feel like is not an uncommon 112 00:05:16,439 --> 00:05:19,160 thing when you go to when you when even when 113 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,360 I went to the Rings of Power, like they had 114 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,319 the first two episodes in theaters, a couple Gandalf dressed 115 00:05:24,399 --> 00:05:26,399 up people there, right, you always get you always get those, 116 00:05:26,519 --> 00:05:28,839 but none this time. I did go at a weird 117 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,439 time of day. I when at like the three pm 118 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,319 showing on on the the opening night Thursday, so it 119 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:34,800 was pretty quiet. I think there was like five or 120 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,439 six people in my theater. There's more people at my 121 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:38,079 Craven Theater than Lord of the Rings. 122 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:39,439 Speaker 1: So that's of course don't like that. 123 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,639 Speaker 2: Now we want to see but hopefully the show the 124 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,360 actual like you know, six seven pm show was a 125 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,240 bigger hit at the theater, but it was also in 126 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,160 like a smaller auditorium. It's funny at my theater that 127 00:05:49,199 --> 00:05:51,920 I don't always go to, there are ten auditoriums, and 128 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:53,879 up until this week, I'd only ever been in two 129 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,160 of the two of the auditoriums, there's like one the 130 00:05:57,199 --> 00:05:59,399 smaller one where you know bo Is Afraid and like 131 00:05:59,439 --> 00:06:01,800 other movies go there, and then like the May like 132 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,439 number ten, the big one for like any big Marvel 133 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:07,560 whatever else I see. And then for whatever reason this week, 134 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,600 I finally was in two other auditoriums, both Craven and 135 00:06:11,439 --> 00:06:13,519 Lord of the Rings. We're like in different ones. Lord 136 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,199 of the Rings one was weird, like my seat with 137 00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:17,199 like right next to the bar that people walk in, 138 00:06:17,199 --> 00:06:20,040 which was like covering part of the screen. So it's 139 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,040 not ideal myke I, no wonder they don't use this 140 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,000 auditorium as often or thankfully I don't have to use 141 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,120 it as much, but it's kind of a different experience there. 142 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,120 So yeah, unfortunately, not a lot of people to cheer 143 00:06:30,199 --> 00:06:33,079 along with. There was one character that popped up that 144 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:35,399 made this one guy chuckle a lot, which in turn 145 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,680 made me chuckle a lot, So we'll talk about that 146 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,600 when we get to the spoiler section of it. Yeah, 147 00:06:41,079 --> 00:06:44,079 it's first of all, it's funny that this is like technically 148 00:06:44,079 --> 00:06:46,120 the fourth like animated Lord of the Rings movie, you know, 149 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,199 because we had the two Lord of the Rings animated 150 00:06:48,199 --> 00:06:50,199 ones back in the day and then the Hobbit animated one. 151 00:06:50,959 --> 00:06:52,959 So it's it's weird to think about this as like, oh, 152 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,639 we've already got these before kind of you know, in 153 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,360 a very this is more studio ghibli anime sort of 154 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,120 way than like those ones were, which don't even know 155 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,720 what you'd call those style weird rodoscoping all that, like 156 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,560 strange stuff that would occur back then. But yeah, War 157 00:07:07,639 --> 00:07:09,920 of Rohrem As you said, I feel like the hype 158 00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:12,480 for this one, he was climbing a little bit for me. 159 00:07:12,519 --> 00:07:15,040 When I first saw the trailer at home, I was 160 00:07:15,079 --> 00:07:16,519 not super into it, and then it was some other 161 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,120 movie I saw back in September October where I got 162 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,680 a trailer for this on the big screen, and then 163 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,120 I got a lot more excited for it. So I'm like, 164 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,199 I think this movie is very beautiful, and I think 165 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:25,879 it'll be just cool to be in the theater for 166 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,839 this one, and I'm glad I did see it. I 167 00:07:29,879 --> 00:07:32,360 don't even know how to describe my hype level or 168 00:07:32,399 --> 00:07:34,480 like how I feel about it overall. I don't want 169 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,240 to call it mixed. I think I overall enjoyed the movie. 170 00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:38,160 I had a good time. I liked it. I just 171 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,839 don't think it was necessarily great. It didn't climb you 172 00:07:42,839 --> 00:07:44,519 know that Lord of the Rings ranking of course, it's 173 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,399 very hard to climb high in those I just love 174 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,680 those original original trilogy so much, but I really liked 175 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,759 the Pocket of Time. I guess that this is said 176 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,120 and this is like a couple hundred years before the 177 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,519 events of like Fellowship and stuff, and there are some 178 00:07:57,519 --> 00:08:00,920 some loose or other non loose connections to those movies, 179 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,879 but mostly it's just a little standalone story. I think 180 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:06,839 the animation looks great. The music was of course really 181 00:08:06,959 --> 00:08:09,600 solid as well. Like all the performances are solid. There's 182 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:11,519 one thing that kind of throws throws it off a 183 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,160 little bit, which I'll once again talk about in the spoilers. 184 00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:17,680 I think some of the characters are interesting here. Villain 185 00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:21,560 stuff is a little weak, and we can break that down. 186 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,120 I feel like that's a weird thing with Lord of 187 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,720 the Rings, where like, in general, most of the villains 188 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,120 and like any Lord of the Rings thing, not dynamic characters. 189 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,199 They're very flat. They're just evil. They just want to 190 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:33,879 see the world burn and that's it. So it's weird 191 00:08:33,879 --> 00:08:35,639 to like come into this and be like, oh, that's 192 00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:37,879 maybe my criticism a bit with a villain here, But 193 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:39,639 it's like that's kind of how Lord of the Rings 194 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:42,240 villains always are but I'm just maybe more connected with 195 00:08:42,279 --> 00:08:44,279 those other ones that they have a better allure to them. 196 00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:47,360 But I think maybe my favorite part about this, and 197 00:08:47,639 --> 00:08:49,440 what I found really interesting, is kind of just the 198 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,480 framing device of this being like a myth or a 199 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,399 fable that's being told like a campfire story or like 200 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,919 a childhood of bed a bedtime story for kids, and 201 00:08:58,919 --> 00:09:00,320 not that there is kid's movie, I mean, just in 202 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,000 terms of that framing of it. I kind of with 203 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,440 all the events in this felt like I don't think 204 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,639 that's actually what happened, but I think this is an 205 00:09:07,639 --> 00:09:10,240 interesting way that like the story has changed over the 206 00:09:10,279 --> 00:09:12,720 decades of people talking about this story two hundred years 207 00:09:12,799 --> 00:09:15,399 later and kind of filling in the blanks here there 208 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,200 or maybe exaggerating certain things or forgetting about certain things. 209 00:09:18,639 --> 00:09:20,840 Even though the movie really only kind of bookends that 210 00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:22,879 part of it. It's not like there's a narrator Aowin 211 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,279 like talking through all the events of it. She kind 212 00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:28,080 of just like introduces and exits the story, right, But 213 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,399 I don't know, I found that part of it really intriguing, 214 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,639 and it felt very separate from other Lord of the 215 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,840 Rings stuff in that way, and that it just felt 216 00:09:34,879 --> 00:09:37,399 I had like a different tone and a bit of 217 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,279 a like greater than what's actually there sort of vibe 218 00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:43,879 to it, if that makes sense. So yeah, I like 219 00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:46,960 this movie. I don't know if it's one I'll revisit 220 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:48,720 a whole lot, but I'm glad I did see it here, 221 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,559 and I'm excited to break down some of the stuff 222 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,600 in the spoiler discussion with you. But yeah, what do 223 00:09:53,639 --> 00:09:55,919 you think of this one and how is your theater experience? 224 00:09:56,639 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I was very much looking forward to 225 00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:01,600 this one. That's what I was already saying since it 226 00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:05,600 was first announced, and I was pleasantly surprised that. I 227 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,240 mean I saw this Friday. I want to say my 228 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,759 show was like six fifty or like seven like around 229 00:10:10,799 --> 00:10:12,919 like you know, the hot hour to go see movies, 230 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,720 and my theater was way more jam packed than it 231 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:18,879 was for Craven So that made me smile. And similar 232 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:21,320 to your story where like, yeah, we probably have like 233 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,799 ten screens or whatever, like at at the theater, the 234 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,600 Extreme theater that's like the one where you go see 235 00:10:27,639 --> 00:10:30,440 you know, the Marvel releases. So I saw Endgame Infinity 236 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,360 War like I got a lot of just memories in 237 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:35,080 that one. It's a special theater for me. But I 238 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,559 also saw Venom two in there, which was awful, and 239 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,200 then like it's mostly like that, and then like one 240 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,159 set theater for like the niche films, and then this week, 241 00:10:44,279 --> 00:10:46,559 like you like, I went into two different theaters that 242 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,159 I feel like I don't normally go into, and one 243 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,519 was for Craven, which you know was the time, and 244 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,559 then one was for this one. But I really really 245 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,360 liked this movie. I think this was really really solid story. 246 00:11:00,879 --> 00:11:03,360 I will say, like I definitely have some issues with it, 247 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,320 but for just being a story told in the Lord 248 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:07,759 of the Rings world, like I thought, I thought it 249 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,519 was excellent. I thought I thought they did such a 250 00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:13,320 great job with it. And I think going into it, 251 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,679 like I just wanted like a really stellar story, to 252 00:11:16,799 --> 00:11:19,360 like something on par with because I knew this was 253 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:20,919 gonna be a war movie, Like I wanted to at 254 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,200 least get some semblance of like like Two Towers Helm's 255 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,559 Deep Battle, Like I don't want to be the exact 256 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,279 same thing, but like I still want to get that 257 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,000 energy because there's just something really epic and fantastical about 258 00:11:33,039 --> 00:11:35,320 the like the wartime stuff in these Lord of the 259 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,320 Rings adventures even Rings of Power, like in certain sequences, 260 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,720 they definitely capture that same energy, so I wanted stuff 261 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,279 like with that. I think something else that was really 262 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,879 intriguing for me coming into the story was because I 263 00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:51,639 really was limited, like I never did research on like 264 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,559 what helm hammer hamm or like the history of the 265 00:11:53,639 --> 00:11:56,480 Rohan Kings, So I was coming into this very very blind, 266 00:11:56,519 --> 00:11:58,320 which I feel like Lord of the Rings. You know, 267 00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:00,639 I'm not the I'm not the most well read person 268 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:01,840 when it comes to Lower the Rings, but I feel 269 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,039 like it's definitely like my favorite piece of media, So 270 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,000 I know some things when it comes to certain characters 271 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,600 and ancient lords and just the gods and stuff like that, 272 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,159 but I'm really really blind coming into this film. So 273 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,799 the whole legend of what helm hammer Hand was because 274 00:12:17,799 --> 00:12:20,600 they mentioned him in the events of Two Towers when 275 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,600 they actually go to Helm's Deep, like there's a reason 276 00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:25,080 why it's called Helm's Deep, and they mentioned some things 277 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,279 about the old King's like helm hammer Hand. So I 278 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,279 was really intrigued about the whole legend of what the 279 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,840 character was. And I think they totally did a good 280 00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:36,639 job at just like like showcasing like why he's named 281 00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:38,639 helm Hammer hand. I thought that was really great. But 282 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,960 he's also a flawed character, which I wasn't expecting. I 283 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,799 think I was expecting him to be like a perfect king, 284 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,080 kind of like King Elisar is, like you know, Ara Gorn, 285 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,159 how he's just like the perfect representation of like what 286 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:54,039 male masculine, like like proper male masculinity should be. So 287 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,360 I think I was expecting him to just be a 288 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,159 perfect leader, and he definitely isn't, but it doesn't bring 289 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,519 down the quality of it because people aren't perfect and 290 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:04,759 makes for a more intriguing character. So I really liked 291 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,200 pretty much everything that was around him, even though I 292 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,679 disagreed with some of the decisions that he made. I 293 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,200 really liked the character, really really loved our lead, Hara. 294 00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:16,399 I thought she was just fantastic. Went and saw this 295 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,159 with two friends and then Shay as well. And one 296 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,919 of our favorite like animes that we've that we watched together, 297 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,000 like one that we watched together like early in the 298 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,879 dating era, would have been Yona of the Dawn, which 299 00:13:28,879 --> 00:13:31,120 it's funny because like even people that love anime, it's 300 00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:33,159 kind of like a niche anime. It only did one season, 301 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,000 even though like set up for another season. It's just 302 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:37,240 the studio, like they just didn't make a lot of money, 303 00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:39,039 so they just didn't keep going. But it's just such 304 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,519 a really intriguing story and a very similar type of 305 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,559 story to this, where like she's like a princess who 306 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,960 isn't able to be a warrior, she's got red hair, 307 00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:51,559 she's like interesting family dynamics where like ended up like 308 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,919 really hating people that were close to her as a child. 309 00:13:54,039 --> 00:13:56,799 So it's like super super similar hitting points. So her 310 00:13:56,879 --> 00:13:58,120 and I were kind of looking at each other while 311 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,679 we were watching it, and I think for that reason, I 312 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,440 just ended up really liking the character and the side 313 00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:05,200 characters around them. I like them for the most part. 314 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,960 I think the villain was probably the weakest for me, 315 00:14:08,039 --> 00:14:10,399 but I think you totally nailed it with just the 316 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:15,320 observation of like other villains throughout, like the lowder Rings realm, 317 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,120 like they're definitely not dynamic, and especially something like sour On, 318 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,799 where he's just kind of representing evil right like he 319 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,360 doesn't he just wants destruction. Same thing with more goth 320 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,440 Like the main threats have always been that, and I 321 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,799 think I think it's more so just about the characters 322 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,600 opposing this like ultimate evil and hatred in the world, 323 00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:34,960 and for like, it just works so well there where 324 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:38,360 is this this character should be more dynamic, but I 325 00:14:38,759 --> 00:14:40,759 just found him more like comedic because he's just so 326 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,960 pathetic in some of the whiny decisions that he's making. 327 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,240 I just kept chuckling with this character, just complaining about things. 328 00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:49,879 I don't know. It was kind of funny for me. 329 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,159 But yeah, and I also really liked what you mentioned, 330 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,159 just the framing of the story and how this is 331 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,759 very much set up as just telling the tale right 332 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,039 of how Helm's deep God its name, and the way 333 00:15:02,039 --> 00:15:04,919 that it's set up with I can't remember the actor's name, 334 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,080 but Aowin from the classic Miranda Auto Miranda Auto. Yeah, 335 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,480 so getting her voice as kind of our narrator to 336 00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:14,039 introduce us to the story and pop in every once 337 00:15:14,039 --> 00:15:15,519 in a while. I think I was expecting her to 338 00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:18,600 be more of a narrator throughout, but she's kind of 339 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,480 selective of the things that she comes in to say. 340 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:25,360 But just the way that it's set up, I feel like, yes, 341 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,600 it definitely feels fantastical with some things that happened, but 342 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:30,559 I think I almost would have wanted it to be 343 00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:33,399 more in the fantasy realm because it is set up 344 00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:35,600 that way. So it's it feels like they really still 345 00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:38,080 wanted to make it, make it grounded and believable. And 346 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,399 I mean, it's a Lord of the Rings. It's a 347 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,720 fantasy world. You know. There's there's orgs, dragons, and trolls 348 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,679 in this in this universe. Like it's it's hard to 349 00:15:44,679 --> 00:15:47,320 make that realism. But I feel like there's just a 350 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,000 certain part of the story where it goes it goes 351 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,840 like as if it is like a like a spiritual 352 00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:57,559 thing type happening, and then you know, something else to reveal. 353 00:15:57,639 --> 00:16:00,200 But I think I just would have expected more of 354 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,360 that in there, like more. I don't know, I don't 355 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,320 even know what I would have wanted more, but. 356 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: I know what you mean. It's like this is an 357 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,519 anime and you would kind of have those expectations of crazy, 358 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,960 huge fights. But I think it's one of the things 359 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,519 that surprised me is even though this is called war 360 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,639 the Row here and like scale's pretty small, surprisingly just 361 00:16:17,679 --> 00:16:20,200 in every battle a couple of them get a little 362 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,000 bit bigger. But even then it feels much more restrained 363 00:16:23,039 --> 00:16:24,879 than some of these other things, which is not what 364 00:16:24,919 --> 00:16:27,799 I've would have expected, given that, you know, animation maybe 365 00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:30,720 makes it a lot more possible to do to ratchet 366 00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:34,399 up that scale tenfold, but they didn't go for that stuff. 367 00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:36,559 They kept it more grounded totally. 368 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,399 Speaker 1: So Yeah, overall, I really really enjoyed it. I'm really 369 00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:44,000 glad that this, you know, is a thing. Like I'm 370 00:16:44,039 --> 00:16:47,840 glad we got this and hopefully we get more stories 371 00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:49,639 like this. And a lot of the rings around, like 372 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,600 Rings of Power came out, and although I wasn't the 373 00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:54,000 hottest on that show, like, it's still really well made 374 00:16:54,039 --> 00:16:56,919 and I still enjoyed aspects to it. But I like 375 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,000 that we're just kind of we're not just sticking to like, Okay, 376 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,519 now that we're doing the Rings of Power stuff with 377 00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:05,039 the Second Age, let's just only tell Second Age stories. 378 00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:07,680 Like there's so much on either side of like the 379 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,599 chronological order of things that you can really just pick 380 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,680 and choose anywhere to tell a tale. And here we are, 381 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,359 you know, a couple hundred years before the events of 382 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,440 the war the Ring, and yeah, it's really cool to 383 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,720 see kind of what the politicking and is like and 384 00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:24,039 just kind of the state of even other threats, right, 385 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,720 like Mordor is still a thing in this story, even 386 00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:29,160 though we're not really dealing with sourn and orcs. But like, 387 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,480 it's kind of cool how we at least are touching 388 00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:35,039 upon the idea that like that's still out there. It's 389 00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:37,319 not a threat by any means that like the row 390 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,279 herem are dealing with right now, but it's still a 391 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:42,680 part of the world. So yeah, I just liked all 392 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,400 of the world building stuff. The score was phenomenal too. 393 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,079 I feel like there's there's some recycle that row Hearum theme, 394 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,079 but man, that's amongst like my favorite theme in the 395 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,079 entire Lord of the Rings Peter Jackson trilogy. So I'm 396 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,119 such a sucker when that comes in. You just hear 397 00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:58,680 like the I don't know if it's like a violin 398 00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:01,559 or something, but it's just gets me goosebumps and just 399 00:18:01,599 --> 00:18:05,559 seeing etter ass it's I love it. So yeah. Animation 400 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,559 was beautiful and yeah, really really solid. I liked it 401 00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:13,240 a lot. Right on you no more spoiler freeze thoughts. 402 00:18:13,279 --> 00:18:14,920 You're ready to jump in the juice? 403 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm ready to venture into the juice. 404 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: Territory jumping in the juice, all right, ladies and gentlemen, 405 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,039 we're gonna be taking our first ad break and we'll 406 00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:25,880 be back to unfold this story. So you're back, we're back, 407 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,920 dying us. Where do you want to go? 408 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: Maybe we can start with with our boy wolf, because 409 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,359 that's kind of the inciting event happens pretty quick in 410 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,200 this movie, which I think is it's funny how that 411 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,119 just feels so separate from what we expect from Lord 412 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,000 of the Rings now, because that original trilogy, you know, 413 00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:43,920 it takes a long time for things to get going, 414 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,200 or a lot of different things happen. It's a whole journey, right, 415 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,799 And same thing with the Hobbit moves because they split 416 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:51,039 those into three, and then with Rings of the Power, 417 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,839 Rings of Power, you're getting a whole season of these 418 00:18:54,839 --> 00:18:56,240 things that we're building up to a lot. And so 419 00:18:56,279 --> 00:18:58,920 it takes a long time for things to happen, right, 420 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,599 And we have these like separate act breaks within these movies. 421 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,279 But then there's kind of this overall act three act 422 00:19:04,319 --> 00:19:06,720 structure whatever for the whole trilogy as a whole. But 423 00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:09,759 since this is one movie that isn't super duper long, 424 00:19:10,599 --> 00:19:12,400 it's it kind of has to get into the things 425 00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:14,079 pretty quick, and I feel like because we don't have 426 00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:15,799 a lot enough all right, we don't have as much 427 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,039 as much time for like the classic Lord of the 428 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,400 Rings travel sequences or like the smaller Slice of Life 429 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,640 moments where it really kind of just kicked more into 430 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,200 high year pretty quick. And that happens very soon in 431 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,200 this movie where we got Helm hammer Hand and the 432 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,000 rest of his family chilling at at Rass and then uh, 433 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,480 the other I guess they called them the wild Man. 434 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,039 I don't know if there if you have the name 435 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:40,480 of that Dundlings, Yeah, the Dunlans. They come by pretty 436 00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:42,640 quick to discuss some things that doesn't all go well, 437 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:47,000 leads to a fight. Hammer Hand kills that king accidentally 438 00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:49,000 not accidentally? Do you think he was trying to go 439 00:19:49,079 --> 00:19:50,599 for the kill there? And then like that kind of 440 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,640 gets right into what leads Wolf down this dark path 441 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,079 to go and attack Rohan with the exception of I 442 00:19:57,079 --> 00:19:59,519 guess it's that, but then also the fact that he 443 00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:03,160 was kind of denied by Hara, Like those two things 444 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,039 are what lead to why he does this stuff. But yeah, 445 00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:08,319 we kick it off pretty quick there, but I don't 446 00:20:08,319 --> 00:20:09,839 know what do you think that that element of it? 447 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I was very shocked to just I 448 00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:15,079 guess the speed of how it got going. You know, 449 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,440 as soon as they're introduced, you just get the vibe like, Okay, 450 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,640 these are gonna be the villains of the movie. They 451 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,799 just come in looking like villains, they're talking like villains. 452 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,400 It's it's set up exactly how this is gonna be 453 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,640 the villains. Yeah, I think it seemed a little bit goofy, 454 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,160 just because I had never seen something like that in 455 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,720 the Little Rings you know, where a king is just 456 00:20:31,759 --> 00:20:34,000 like let's go bar fight out in the street. Let's 457 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,799 just take off my rings. We'll just fucking fisty cuff it. 458 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,160 I was. I was like, okay, we're really doing this, 459 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,160 And then it was like pretty much comedic. How quickly, 460 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,079 like just noodle neck frekka I think was the king 461 00:20:46,519 --> 00:20:50,319 King's name, right, Yeah, like yeah, just noodle necked. And 462 00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:52,359 it's like, man, this is like just showcase, so like 463 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,960 this is your king. This is how weak or people 464 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,279 were like, man, how weak and soft is Wolf gonna be? 465 00:20:57,319 --> 00:20:59,359 You know, like like the next leader. Then it's funny, 466 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,839 like it seemed like a mental was just extremely fragile 467 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,440 the entire movie, where he's just extremely unconfident with everything 468 00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:09,119 that was that he was kind of doing. Like he's 469 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,759 a good strategist, I guess, but just like the way 470 00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:13,559 that he carried himself, he's just so pathetic. So right away, 471 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,839 it just it I didn't really get like the like 472 00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:21,920 intimidation factor from the character. Like I like it. I 473 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,359 get how he's strategic and like able to kind of 474 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,799 fool people, but he just he seems like a weak 475 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,559 villain in the sense that he's just he's just not 476 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,119 really headstrong, Like he just sounds like he just seems 477 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,440 like a kid that has the power, but he's just 478 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,160 like whiny and like, I need to get this because 479 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,640 I'm upset because this person wronged me. And it's just 480 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,359 reminds me of you know, like a certain Game of 481 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,680 Thrones character, like a Jeoffrey comparison stuff like that. So 482 00:21:46,319 --> 00:21:49,759 even like Joaquin's character from Gladiator one, right like like. 483 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:51,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good comparison because I feel 484 00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:54,039 like when it comes down to whether you want to 485 00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:56,160 call them villains or just anti heroes. In Lord of 486 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,440 the Rings, there's kind of like two boxes where there's 487 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,640 like the weasly characters. Yeah, got a DNA thor or 488 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,880 worm tongue or even like the alum, I would stick 489 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,160 stick in that bucket. And then there's like the other 490 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,240 side of it, where like the big, imposing, super bad 491 00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:12,279 guys that once again like don't really have dynamic nature 492 00:22:12,279 --> 00:22:14,039 to them. They're just big and strong and scary, and 493 00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:15,720 I feel like, yeah, they're trying to get a little 494 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,559 bit with the king, but like everyone's making fun of him, 495 00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:20,079 so it's like, Okay, I'm not finding this guy too imposing, 496 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,279 but he goes down pretty quick. And so to have 497 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,039 like the lead villain of this be that kind of 498 00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:27,839 Weasley type, that's kind of against type for Lord of 499 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,559 the Rings, right, like those are those are more like 500 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,839 usually the smaller villains or like the little the Stepping 501 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,160 Stones did like the bigger villains. So it's interesting to 502 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,680 shift that and make that kind of like the main 503 00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:40,359 antagonist of the whole movie. And you're right, like he 504 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,440 kind of has like a kylo ren energy to him, 505 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,160 and like he's kind of like an in Cell type, right, 506 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,279 like just like pissed that this girl didn't want to 507 00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:49,759 marry him pretty much, and that's like what fuels his 508 00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:53,160 hatred originally, and then obviously his father dying, that's more justified. 509 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,400 I'll be with you there, buddy, Like that's that was 510 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,000 kind of savage what happened to him there, But yeah, 511 00:22:58,079 --> 00:23:00,400 it was weird to have that kind of type villain 512 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,759 be the lead of this. And yeah, to some extent, 513 00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:06,200 it's like why it's interesting that he's able to even 514 00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:08,839 have the charisma somehow, but we don't really see that 515 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,880 charisma to at least lead these people, and maybe it 516 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,839 just really comes down to like the promise of power 517 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,400 like that even happens near the end of the movie 518 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,759 when like a lot of the people are like, we 519 00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:19,839 don't want to build this tower anymore. Man, We're done 520 00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:21,880 with this, Like you're not paying us, you're not feeding us, 521 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,680 We're just pissed off. Everyone's dying to the Wraith and 522 00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:26,359 then he just like throws a bag of gold on 523 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,160 the ground. He's like, if you want more of this, 524 00:23:28,279 --> 00:23:30,759 it's in that castle there. And so obviously he knows 525 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:32,920 like what these people want, how to fuel them. But 526 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,599 then even at the end, they're like his kind of 527 00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:37,640 strategic partner guy, the guy with like the really short 528 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,720 buzzed hair, he kind of even goes against him, and 529 00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:44,839 obviously he ends up killing him and then he commands 530 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,759 the rest of the army to go. But like the commander, 531 00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:49,160 like he just even he has lost faith in Wolf 532 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,160 by the end of it, which makes sense because they've 533 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,079 been like in this long cold winter where there are 534 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,039 just no progress is being made. But yeah, I guess 535 00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:58,480 that's really what it comes down to, is that he 536 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,319 he knows, like in their heart of hearts, what these 537 00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:02,480 people want, and for these people, it's just greed, it's 538 00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:04,359 just money, it's just power. And so like, I guess 539 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,799 that's how he was able to command these legends, and 540 00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:09,160 I'm sure that's what he did to I forget the 541 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,599 name of the other guy, but like who was part 542 00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:14,680 of the other faction that betrayed Rohan right which that battle, 543 00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:16,640 Like I feel like that was maybe one of the 544 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,319 story elements that was a little underbaked in terms of 545 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,799 one even knowing who that guy is in the first place, 546 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,640 or knowing how his connection with Rohan was. But I 547 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,079 felt like when he was a bit of a double agent, 548 00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:28,200 it was a little underwhelming. And then he kind of 549 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,039 just dies in that moment too, like in that Rohan battle. 550 00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:33,240 But I'm sure he kind of pleaded to him in 551 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,079 that same way of knowing what that guy wanted in 552 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,200 terms of the power, and that's how how he was 553 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,680 able to turn him to work for him. 554 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: Lord Thorn, that's what you're talking about, Okay, Yeah, the 555 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,839 one that he was supposed to, you know, show up 556 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,119 guard the flank with his three hundred men, but completely betrayed. Yeah, 557 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,559 I know. I feel like that type of villain too. 558 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,039 It's it's well, it's extremely frustrating, and it should be 559 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,400 right to have a character like that who's like clearly 560 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,000 not as strong and like honorable as someone like a 561 00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:06,359 helmhammer hand would be. So like, if that's your villain, 562 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,160 you just clearly want to hate that guy and then 563 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,519 like typically that just gets me going. But it's also 564 00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:13,240 like a good villain to have because you get that 565 00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:17,359 reaction out of the audience. But like sometimes it's like, well, 566 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,480 how does this guy like always just one up like 567 00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:21,920 our our heroes? Right? But I think in this set, 568 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:25,440 in this specific story, it actually worked really well because 569 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,640 of the fact that they were caught off so like 570 00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:31,960 caught off guard by the Lord Thorn betrayal. They're basically 571 00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:34,359 just on the run, like running, they're trying to evact 572 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,960 like ed east to get the I guess it's not 573 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,559 Helm's Deep as the Hornberg at the point of this story, 574 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,319 but right, just to confuse me. 575 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:43,039 Speaker 2: So much, I'm like, is there another place that looks 576 00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:46,079 exactly not thinking that, like, oh, there's a guy named Helm, 577 00:25:46,079 --> 00:25:49,000 they're probably gonna name it after I was definitely confused 578 00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:50,079 there for twenty minutes. 579 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's funny. So yeah, it's just like the the 580 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,839 rushness of all these events. It's just they can never 581 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,000 really be settled, and like they're not. It's like they're 582 00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:02,119 planning for this invasion right, Like it's not like they're 583 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,960 stalking helms Deep. They're just getting there and hopefully it's 584 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,079 fully stalked and ready to go, and they have to 585 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,160 just be hiding in this cave for essentially like the 586 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,039 whole winter where it's cold, people are starving, like you 587 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,519 just lost like a bunch of princes for like, it's 588 00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:18,400 just the morale is really low, so it would make 589 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,000 sense why they are on the back foot. So I 590 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,279 really liked that side of the villain. But I think 591 00:26:24,319 --> 00:26:27,680 it was just I don't know, cause like I don't 592 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,759 think I would change really anything about it. It's just 593 00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:32,559 all the moments when he's like whining about hera and 594 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,480 like there's like a moment when everyone's like evacing. It's 595 00:26:36,519 --> 00:26:38,160 at the end, it's a nice climax when she's wearing 596 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,799 like then his bride gownge she gets out there and 597 00:26:39,839 --> 00:26:42,319 he's like, you think I'm gonna take you back? Now, 598 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,920 It's like, oh my god, this guy is just actually 599 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,599 so pathetic because in the back of my mind, I'm 600 00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:48,519 sure she's like yeah, yeah, and he'd be like okay, yeah, 601 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:51,480 I'll take you back because he's just so insecure and 602 00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:55,000 in all those moments. But it made it entertaining, and 603 00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:59,079 I guess it just leaned into the archetype of Yeah, 604 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,480 that in Cell character who's super just unconfident and has 605 00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:05,200 I don't know, just just not not the signs of 606 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,960 a good honorable man. I mean, he he had a 607 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:08,640 deal with Harra, she beat him fair and square, and 608 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,720 he's still invades like he's just doing all of the 609 00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:14,119 evil acts of what a weak character would do. And 610 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,599 the General, oh I just said General Tark that was. 611 00:27:19,519 --> 00:27:23,279 Speaker 2: His name of you know, the is like commander. 612 00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: His commander guy that tells him to just fuck off 613 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,759 at the end, essentially like I'm not going to do that. 614 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,079 And yeah, then he bit the bullet for it. Then 615 00:27:30,079 --> 00:27:32,480 he bit the bullet for it. Yeah, got stabbed. This 616 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:35,079 guy is just always stabbing people in the back and 617 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:36,920 never an honorable fight. 618 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:40,279 Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, yeah, I And then I guess we 619 00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:44,200 could jump over to maybe talk about Helm hammer Hand 620 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,559 and the crew a little bit. My one nippick here 621 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,880 is so Helm is voiced by Brian Cox, who's you know, 622 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,359 great iconic voice, really fitting for the role. Uh though, 623 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,279 my one issue with it is that he is like 624 00:27:57,319 --> 00:28:00,559 American and has an American accent, and the rest of 625 00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:02,440 his family and everyone else in Rohan has like a 626 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,359 British accent presumably or it sounds like it at least, 627 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,319 and so it was really like it might sound like 628 00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:09,000 a nitpick, but it actually took me out of the 629 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,079 movie in quite a few different moments when he just 630 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,920 sounds different than everyone else like I. And also maybe 631 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,720 part of it is because he is like a recognizable 632 00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:21,000 voice and I could pinpoint who it was during the movie, 633 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,680 and everyone else was like people that I have maybe 634 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,599 I've heard them before, but like I can't recognize any 635 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,039 of their voices. So it kind of stood out to me, 636 00:28:28,079 --> 00:28:29,599 but it also just felt weird that he had a 637 00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:31,799 different accent than the rest of his family, Like I 638 00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:34,039 feel like he should he should not. That doesn't really 639 00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:36,000 make sense to me. But I think in terms of 640 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,880 the actual performance itself, Brian Cox, I mean, he just 641 00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:42,599 he's so good at doing the old man being imposing stuff, 642 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,519 like he's been doing a lot a lot of that lately, 643 00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:46,759 giving back to like the villain he played an X 644 00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:48,359 Men back in the day. Like, I feel like he's 645 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,519 just so good at that kind of thing. So I 646 00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:52,839 do like the casting there. I just maybe the accent 647 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,480 part of it threw me off. Threw me off a 648 00:28:55,519 --> 00:28:55,920 little bit. 649 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like for me it didn't bother me 650 00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:04,279 that much because helm Hammerhan, he like feels different than 651 00:29:04,319 --> 00:29:06,599 everyone else. He almost like feels like a Krados right 652 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,640 where like Krados amongst like a bunch of good soldiers, 653 00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:11,559 it's like you got jacked men, but then you got 654 00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:14,799 like a demi god who's just like clearly something different. 655 00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:18,000 And helm Hammerhan has that to him, And I feel 656 00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:20,640 like coming into the movie, like I want that character 657 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,960 to be like that, Like he's helm Hammerhan, he shouldn't 658 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,359 be like a gream of warm tongue looking motherfucker, like 659 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,480 he should feel like a powerful, godlike character. And I 660 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,240 think the fact that he did talk different and just 661 00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:34,960 like carry himself differently, it just leaned into that more 662 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,680 for me. So I really wasn't bothered by it that much. 663 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,759 And yeah, I'm I just I love his gravitas of 664 00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:43,279 his voice, like he's just got that that, like you said, 665 00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:46,839 like the old man like wisdom like to him. So 666 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,920 I did like the casting, but definitely a fair fair 667 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,599 point because he did feel very different than everyone else, 668 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,359 especially like, yeah, they got like the you know, we 669 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,480 all speak English, but there's something a little bit fancier 670 00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:03,599 about but the London English over the pond where the 671 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:04,799 derivative version. 672 00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. So it sounds like you're a big 673 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,880 fan of the character of Helm and the kind of 674 00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:13,039 flow and you want to talk more about that. 675 00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, I think, like I was saying the 676 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,279 spoiler free section, I was hoping for, like like the 677 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,400 legendary character, and I think you very much get that. 678 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,279 I mean, he one shot the opposing king with a punch. 679 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,880 I don't think he was trying to kill him. I 680 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,599 think definitely the king was egging him on, and he 681 00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:30,799 probably wasn't pulling a punch as much as he probably 682 00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:33,839 should have, but I think just the way that he reacted, 683 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,680 he was equally as surprised that he'd like He's like, 684 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,160 I just punched like one punch, really like like that's it, 685 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,440 and like I think how it happened, it was just 686 00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:45,079 kind of comedic for me because I'm like, holy fuck, 687 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,880 Like that's really what's gonna set us off, this one 688 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,480 punch that the guy can't take, And he was like 689 00:30:50,599 --> 00:30:53,160 he delivered two punches against Helm, and then Helm just 690 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,400 throws the one, and I guess you have to know, 691 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,680 you know, if you're carrying loaded weapons all the time, 692 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,559 you got to know when to yeah, put on the 693 00:30:59,559 --> 00:31:05,519 same So yeah, I really liked him being also because 694 00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:08,440 he is such a bron character, Like he's so strong, 695 00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:12,799 physically imposing and like he just commands respect. I think 696 00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:16,079 because of the legend around him of just being this 697 00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:19,079 guy that's never lost a battle, like just rides out 698 00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:21,119 like he's not like he hides in his throne and 699 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,079 war like he's going out there. So I liked all 700 00:31:24,119 --> 00:31:27,240 of that stuff, and I did like how he kind 701 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,160 of was a meathead though, like like he was just 702 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,799 stupid in the sense of not listening to Hara because 703 00:31:31,839 --> 00:31:33,880 he's like, no, you're my precious little girl, like like 704 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,160 that's not gonna be it, Like the way to go 705 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,839 about it to the point at the at the end 706 00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:40,799 when he's basically saying he's goodbye to her, Like I 707 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:43,160 liked how he did realize that and like did was 708 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,880 able to admit that he was wrong, and he's like 709 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,240 I should have listened to you. It just it just 710 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,200 felt like a nice growth of the character because it 711 00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:53,720 seemed like he's very stubborn in his ways of like, no, 712 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,359 this is the old way. You know, men are the 713 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,960 are the fighters. Women you're gonna be just baby basically 714 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,799 a baby maker in on door, like just just just 715 00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:05,200 spreading the line like that's gonna be it. And again, 716 00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:07,960 like it's a flawed trait, Like I'm glad that, you know, 717 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,720 like Eric Gorn doesn't have that when we have that 718 00:32:09,839 --> 00:32:13,880 character later on. But it's believable because because sometimes characters 719 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,279 are flawed in that way. And the one decision that 720 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,240 I think was just so stupid and unforgivable and like 721 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,039 just a dumb move was sending away the cousin character. 722 00:32:26,079 --> 00:32:30,519 I can't remember his name, Lord Friget. Maybe I saw 723 00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:31,960 that on the IMDb, but I wasn't sure if that 724 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,000 was the same character. But he just seemed like an 725 00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:37,279 extremely loyal character, and like, I get he's mad that 726 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:39,359 that his daughter was in danger, but it just seems 727 00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:41,920 so unjustified to just banish this guy because of like 728 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,400 that decision. It just seemed like a big jump and 729 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,480 not really that believable. So, although I don't blame him 730 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,960 that much for like some of the other dumb decisions 731 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,400 that he made, I think that one was just clearly 732 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,920 an idiotic move. And then like he's going into war 733 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,079 and he's just banishing all these soldiers and this guy 734 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,799 who he even said, like even if Dowami like, I'm 735 00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:03,160 always loyal, I'm always gonna be there. So I kind 736 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,319 of assumed he was gonna be like our Gandalf appearance 737 00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:07,720 at the end, you know, uh, when the row here 738 00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:09,680 and looked to the east on the seventh day or 739 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,559 whatever the hell the line is. I kind of assumed 740 00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:13,519 that was gonna be it with the character, But it 741 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,599 just seemed a little bit of a jump to just 742 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,839 banish him that quickly. And yeah, so so that I went, 743 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,640 I wasn't that big of a fan with but yeah, 744 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,880 I liked how he was also just basically defying the 745 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,039 os and being this wraith, you know, like like we 746 00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:29,039 didn't really talk about that sequence too much yet, but 747 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,160 I liked how for a part of me, I like 748 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,640 believed that he was not just a man, like I 749 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,880 thought he was like a actual wraith or something along 750 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,960 those lines, Like I thought maybe he did die and 751 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,720 this is just like his spirit coming alive, so uh, 752 00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:46,119 and it's believable because he's helm hammerhand, you know. And 753 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,480 I love the way that it was shown through uh, 754 00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:52,359 like the Dunlin or like the Wild Men's Fear, right, 755 00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:54,279 it's like a Ghost of Shushima thing where it's like 756 00:33:54,359 --> 00:33:56,880 this thing we like, you can kill a man, but 757 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,240 you can't kill like a like an angry spirit, and 758 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,440 like they are really leaning into that. It's similar actually 759 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,839 how uh like Shadow of mortor games kind of go 760 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,880 about right, like they're like you're actually getting in the 761 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,880 heads of the Rachai where they're terrified of this this 762 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,880 this ghost that's just hunting down Orichai and Mordor. So 763 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,199 I think I'm also just a sucker for that type 764 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:20,239 of like storytelling, whether it's Ghost of Tsushima, Shadow of 765 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,280 mordor The Northman is kind of like that as well, 766 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,199 if you had seen that movie. So I'm just a 767 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,599 really big sucker for I think those like legendary vengeance 768 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:34,039 stale tales. Batman's I guess is a little bit like that. 769 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I like all the points you bring up 770 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,159 with Helme. I think it's it is fun to have 771 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,400 a flawed character like that, who, as you said, like 772 00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:44,119 very meat heead really put all of his eggs in 773 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:45,880 the basket. That that guy was not going to betray him, 774 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,159 which maybe just shows that he wasn't thinking critically about 775 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,280 the situation or didn't have like the backup plans. He 776 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,679 was just so overconfident. And the fact that they even 777 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,000 like I guess it's probably good to separate the battle 778 00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:58,880 from the doorstep of like the houses in the town. 779 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:00,960 But then also because that it meant that they were 780 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,239 slower to respond to uh when the flank actually happened 781 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,519 and all that. But yeah, like a lot of mistakes, 782 00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:11,079 and I think it's good that he has like the 783 00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:14,519 humility of it too, like he accepts his his failures 784 00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:17,920 at the end, and he's trying his best to redeem them, 785 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,840 but it's it's it's funny thing about like Helm's Deep 786 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,599 and him being it being named after him, this legendary fighter, 787 00:35:24,639 --> 00:35:27,920 but it's like, man, it's also his fault that so 788 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,760 many people died, and like the his sons, tons tons 789 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,559 of other people. I'm sure a lot of people die 790 00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:36,800 just like from hunger and stuff behind those walls too, 791 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,639 and it's like that's all all his fold And maybe 792 00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:41,400 that seems like a bit over zealous, just because that 793 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,280 one guy did betray them, Like without without that betrayal, 794 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,400 presumably that fight would have been okay, But it just 795 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,559 seems like, I mean, also one, I feel like ediras 796 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,960 one of the hardest places to defend, Like that is 797 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,679 not a good that is not a good stronghold. Like 798 00:35:55,679 --> 00:35:57,239 if you are the king of that place, you want 799 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,719 to be playing a good political game, Like you don't 800 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,159 want to be getting betrayed because you were just done 801 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,800 for if someone wants to go for you. Because it's 802 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,239 funny a lot of this movie how it mirrors the 803 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,320 events of like the Lord of the Rings trilogy and 804 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,880 the kind of utter ass and that sort of stuff, 805 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,519 retreating to Helms Deep with the people and parts of 806 00:36:14,519 --> 00:36:17,000 it getting kind of burnt down, and then like as 807 00:36:17,039 --> 00:36:18,880 you mentioned, like coming in from the east all that 808 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,280 kind of stuff. I feel like there's a lot of 809 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,199 similarities there that were kind of running back some of 810 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,159 that stuff. But I think it also just strategically makes sense. 811 00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:27,119 That's like a way better place to defend and save 812 00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:29,800 your people, presumably I don't know for how long you could, 813 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,679 because I don't know how they get food in there, 814 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,920 Like it doesn't seem like they kind of just have 815 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,639 to rely on the reserves. But then, yeah, talking more 816 00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:40,079 to like that that element of the like the wraith 817 00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:42,400 or the larger than life. It's funny with Lord of 818 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,199 the Rings, like where things feel unrealistic for what's capable 819 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,880 in that world. We talked about that even with Rings 820 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,480 of Power season two when they went through the woods 821 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,000 and there was like those wraith creatures. 822 00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: And I was talking about barrel whites. 823 00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like for that to me, that seems a 824 00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:58,639 little like unrealistic for Lord of the Rings. But it's like, man, 825 00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:01,920 there's so many other There's a rogs and dragons and 826 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,599 like at some point, you know, people shooting fireballs a 827 00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:07,400 little bit, all the powers that the wizards have. And 828 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,480 it's funny like where that line is, because even though 829 00:37:09,519 --> 00:37:11,920 it is a high fantasy world, it feels fairly grounded 830 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,480 at times. And I think for me that's where the element, 831 00:37:14,559 --> 00:37:17,239 the framework of this being the fable or the myth 832 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,719 urban legend, even that's where it like it works perfectly 833 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,320 because I think the way I'm seeing this is like, 834 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,960 I'm not looking at this movie as like, here's a 835 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,239 one to one retelling of how these events occurred. It's 836 00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:31,679 it's Aowen and others telling this story two hundred years later, 837 00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:33,639 or think about that anytime. It's not like they have 838 00:37:33,679 --> 00:37:35,840 a printing press. It's not like they record the events 839 00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:38,400 printed and that's what people are reading two hundred years later. 840 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,079 It's like one guy tells the story this way, and 841 00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:43,199 then the son who tells that story to their son 842 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,719 tells a little bit differently. Here there, maybe they add 843 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,960 little flair and like Aowin. Aowin has a character like 844 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,199 I guess presumably when she's telling the story. I guess 845 00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:55,199 it would probably be before she goes on and becomes I 846 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,239 am no Man and stabs the witch King and all 847 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,519 that stuff, but maybe it's after I'm not sure when 848 00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:01,719 Aoin's telling the story, but it makes sense that she 849 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,800 would put so much of a highlight on hera as 850 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,480 a character, because that character mirrors a lot of what 851 00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:08,280 she is as a person. So she's the one telling 852 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,760 the story, of course she would kind of highlight that thing. 853 00:38:11,159 --> 00:38:14,360 But then also like the whole part of Helm, it's like, 854 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,800 I don't know if I believe that he did all 855 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,239 that on the rampart, fighting on hundreds of people. I 856 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,760 don't think I believe that he died frozen like a 857 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,880 fucking statue to the gods on the rampart. I'm guessing 858 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,559 he was like on the ground, like bleeding out and 859 00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:28,960 frozen that way. But then like the people on the wall, 860 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,960 they look him as like, man, he did it, he sacrificed, 861 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,079 he did great on that rampart. Yeah, and they tell 862 00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:35,119 that story, and then over the decades it could tell 863 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,039 different different ways until the point now where it seems like, 864 00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:39,719 as you mentioned, like he seems like a cradle's like 865 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,440 demigod type. And I think that's really interesting because I 866 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,800 think that's just a fun way to think about, like, well, 867 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,199 he was good enough that they named this place after him, 868 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,159 but like how good was he actually? And I think 869 00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:51,599 that part of it, and like I feel like that's 870 00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:53,639 even within the movie itself of like the whole Raith 871 00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:56,320 thing that kind of shows like the stories that people 872 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,800 tell to justify what they're seeing and the only way 873 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,719 they getting capsule like how strong this guy was is 874 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,800 that he was a wraith. He wasn't actually, or maybe 875 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,920 he was, who knows, but like that's how they saw it, 876 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,159 and I feel like that's just kind of the whole 877 00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:10,199 movie as well, is like how this story changes from 878 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,639 perspective perspective someone telling it and then, as I mentioned again, 879 00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:15,639 two hundred years is a long ass time for a 880 00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:18,320 story to change over the over the decades, right. 881 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, one hundred percent. I love I love that 882 00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:24,440 because I completely agree in the sense of, like you 883 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,840 actually have Ao Win come in and say like and 884 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,559 they didn't defeat him, it was the the elements that 885 00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:32,119 had I'm like, Okay, it probably took some fucking slashes 886 00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:34,079 to the to the wrist, although you know, like maybe 887 00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:39,840 not one one probably yeah, yeah exactly, yeah exactly, But 888 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,199 it's just so much more symbolic, right that he's he's 889 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,360 he stood there at the gates like holding the hammer, 890 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,480 and it's just like, okay, yeah, that's a lot more 891 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,920 of a just just tale to tell like your kids, 892 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,199 especially like for in the sense of like propaganda of 893 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,119 supporting Rohan, you know, like like just just that whole thing. 894 00:39:58,199 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 2: So yeah, and like even like the revisionist true that 895 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,599 he's a great king, it's like he made tons of flaws. Yeah, exactly, 896 00:40:03,639 --> 00:40:05,880 you probably had more negative traits than good traits, you know, 897 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,559 but like obviously look back on him and history is 898 00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:09,519 told by the winners and that. 899 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: Whole kind of thing. No exactly, So I think for me, 900 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,800 I almost wanted like more of that because because they 901 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,320 were touching upon it being a story toll through a 902 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,840 o N And I completely agree with what you're saying 903 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,039 of just the way that it's passed down through generations 904 00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:26,920 and then it goes from one bard that wants to 905 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,639 add a little bit of spice on it, you make 906 00:40:28,679 --> 00:40:31,000 something a little bit more exciting. So I think I 907 00:40:31,039 --> 00:40:33,639 just would have wanted more of that fantasy side of it. 908 00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:36,159 But I don't know, I also really liked what I got, 909 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,320 And even even with talking about the like the whole 910 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,639 Wraith thing, and you know there's there's not many of 911 00:40:42,639 --> 00:40:44,320 them in this movie, but we we actually see some 912 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,440 Orcs appear here, and did you yeah that I I 913 00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:51,480 didn't see it at the time, and then Tyler told 914 00:40:51,519 --> 00:40:53,920 me after the movie, and that's so awesome. I love it. 915 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,719 Billy Boyd and Dominic Monahan super cool. 916 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 2: I love that little Camio role for them. 917 00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:02,599 Speaker 1: I love it. Soon and like when when the orcs 918 00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:05,400 were introduced, of course you know they're looking for rings, 919 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,800 which is it's kind of funny in hindsight, like that 920 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,599 was like shown in the trailer right when they're like 921 00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:13,199 talking about rings, and its like, I get it. I 922 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:14,920 get it. You know, some people might not know what 923 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,960 the fuck this movie is. It's already doing really bad 924 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,280 at the box office, which isn't, I guess too surprising 925 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,079 for a niche Lord of the Rings tail. But I 926 00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:23,519 get it that you would at least want to tie 927 00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:25,360 it in that sense. And I feel like for the 928 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,280 most part, the linking to the Lord of the Rings event, 929 00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:30,480 it really didn't bother me, like at all. There's there's 930 00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:32,159 one thing that I kind of rolled my eyes at 931 00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:35,079 the very very end when they're kind of describing the 932 00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:36,199 name of a certain wizard. 933 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 2: But yeah, very Hobbit strider. Like I know you have 934 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,039 to watch this movies, but it was like, okay, a 935 00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:42,960 little too close to a thing that people don't really 936 00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:43,960 love about the Hobbit. 937 00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:47,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, but like for the like vast majority, you know, 938 00:41:47,159 --> 00:41:49,320 like Sourmon like appears in here, and I'm like that's 939 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,800 kind of cool. I like it that he's taken over, 940 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,920 Like it's not overstaining, it's welcome. And even the thing 941 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,760 with the rings, like it wasn't a plot point. It's 942 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,239 just like, yeah, we're looking for rings, and it makes sense, 943 00:41:57,679 --> 00:42:00,719 you know, chronological wise, like more Door is starting to 944 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,039 look for rings, they're starting to look for for what 945 00:42:03,199 --> 00:42:05,679 was lost to them. So I liked all of that. 946 00:42:06,119 --> 00:42:07,440 But anyways, getting back to what I was saying, like 947 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,480 when we're hearing about the Raiths, people are getting chopped up, 948 00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:13,159 ripped apart, and then we find Orcs and I'm like, oh, 949 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,599 that's such a wild spin if it's actually Orcs this 950 00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:17,719 whole time like just taking people out, and it makes 951 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,679 sense how they're ripping them apart, right, Like it's a 952 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:20,440 very orcish thing. 953 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Big Troll one, Yeah, it's like I could 954 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,000 easily see that being mistaken for helm when the visibility 955 00:42:26,079 --> 00:42:28,079 is as bad as it is. Right, Yeah, even that 956 00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:30,599 did happen, partially, I don't even actually know. Yeah, well 957 00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:31,280 they're they're. 958 00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 1: Like they're like robbing the bodies right for rings, So 959 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,199 it makes sense that they're finding people, murdering them and 960 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,400 then and then looting them for for rings. So when 961 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,800 that would happen, I'm like, oh, man, like it's actually 962 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,599 just orcs the whole time that that's kind of fun 963 00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:46,400 that it feels like the wraith of helm hammer Hand. 964 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,599 And then two minutes later, like we actually have helm 965 00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:51,559 hammer Hand being essentially the wraith. He's got like his 966 00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:53,679 his horn. I actually I can't remember does he have 967 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,960 the horn or like what is making the noise because 968 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,199 they're hearing, Like, yeah, he does have it, Okay, I 969 00:42:59,199 --> 00:43:02,679 couldn't remember. And then yeah, he's just dismantling people with 970 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,559 his hands, and it's like, okay, it's actually him. But 971 00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:07,880 also like we we're just talking about this is also 972 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,360 a story that we're being told like through a wind, 973 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,880 so maybe this isn't exactly what happened. And yeah, I 974 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,719 liked everything that was happening, though, I didn't mind the 975 00:43:18,119 --> 00:43:20,519 ring appearance with the orcs there, and I did end 976 00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:23,679 up liking the idea of just helm hammer hand essentially 977 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,039 is that badass that we think he is, that just 978 00:43:26,119 --> 00:43:28,719 ripping people apart. And I found it kind of funny 979 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,480 when he is like running with Hara to get into 980 00:43:31,519 --> 00:43:34,719 the city gates and like the hinge just is not working, 981 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,159 you know, it's frozen, like we just can't get the 982 00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:37,920 door up. When he's like, okay, hold on, he just 983 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,880 opens the door like buy hands, and I'm like, this 984 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,119 is just this is so wild, like like this is 985 00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:45,960 the most impenetrable gait in the world, but the king 986 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,840 can just open it with his bare hands. But hey, 987 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,039 maybe it's a legend, maybe it never happened, but fuck 988 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,039 for what was shown, it looked like it like he 989 00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:55,320 could be doing that. And then he's just gonna. 990 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,800 Speaker 2: I wonder if he was just gonna grab Harah and 991 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,400 just chuck her. He's so strong he could. 992 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. 993 00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:07,599 Speaker 2: Even little things like like of Hara has like anime 994 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,559 like fire emblem red hair. You know, people don't have 995 00:44:10,559 --> 00:44:11,800 that kind of red hair. But I feel like that's 996 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,719 the perfect thing of the story of like, oh she 997 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,119 had red hair like the fire of a phoenix rise 998 00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:17,760 and again, and that seems like the kind of thing 999 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,440 that we get exaggerated in a story, and so I 1000 00:44:19,519 --> 00:44:21,199 kind of feel like that's another little thing too. And 1001 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,880 even like I don't know when she led that oliphont 1002 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,800 into the woods, didn't octopus like we've seen octopuses like 1003 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,199 that before, but did it eat the oliphont hole? I 1004 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,280 don't know, Maybe she just lost the oliphont when she 1005 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,039 was walking around the woods. You know, Like little things 1006 00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:35,679 like that, you can kind of think about what would 1007 00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:37,679 the actual thing have been, or like how much of 1008 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:42,039 this is exaggerated? But I did find that like that 1009 00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:44,159 could be annoying to some people, ambiguity of it, and 1010 00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:45,880 you could just look at it very literally if you want, 1011 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,400 But for me, I think that's kind of half the 1012 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,920 fun of this movie is is just looking at like 1013 00:44:50,119 --> 00:44:52,960 how tails are told, and it's such an interesting part 1014 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:53,239 of it. 1015 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: So yeah, and it's fun that it's it's surrounding the story, right, 1016 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,679 So if you if you have any like grievances with 1017 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,960 someone little niitpick thing, it's like, well, it's a Bard's tale, right, 1018 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,920 Like it's not actually the story of it, So Yeah, No, 1019 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,239 I think it was a good decision to do that actually, 1020 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,400 and not just a reason to have someone like Aoin 1021 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,960 come into Naria. Like it actually would make sense because 1022 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,320 she could just be telling the story to you know, 1023 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,400 fair Mere later on when they're going to getting married. 1024 00:45:18,679 --> 00:45:21,880 He's curious about the story of helm hammer Hands. 1025 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 2: So I like it. Yeah, And I do like, as 1026 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,559 you said, the connections. I do think the gandalfh one's 1027 00:45:28,559 --> 00:45:30,880 a little it's a little cheesy. I didn't I wasn't 1028 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,000 too bothered by it. I just don't think we needed it. 1029 00:45:33,039 --> 00:45:35,280 After like like the sarmone thing, that was cool. It's 1030 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,119 fun to just want to see him in this art style. 1031 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,840 But then also like, obviously he's not evil yet, so 1032 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,840 he's just like greeting the king. Hey, how's it going. 1033 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,840 You know, sure, we'll have a couple hundred years of 1034 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,920 great peace and working together here. So I like that. 1035 00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:50,480 I think my favorite one though, is just like the 1036 00:45:50,599 --> 00:45:53,519 naming of Helm's Deep I think is so cool because 1037 00:45:53,519 --> 00:45:55,480 that is just my favorite thing of Lord of the 1038 00:45:55,559 --> 00:45:58,280 Rings is that battle is so iconic, and so that's 1039 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,280 something I'm gonna thin about every time I'm watching that movie. Now, 1040 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:01,920 I was thinking back on this, and I think this 1041 00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:04,199 is like a fun like I guess this is technically 1042 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:05,920 pretty cool. I don't really think of it that way, 1043 00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:08,199 but it is. And I feel like that's like a 1044 00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:11,119 fun framing for watching this movie. And I guess you 1045 00:46:11,159 --> 00:46:13,639 also have Hobbit in terms of prequel type stuff, So 1046 00:46:13,679 --> 00:46:15,199 now we have a lot of options in terms of 1047 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:16,599 what do you want to watch before you watch Lord 1048 00:46:16,639 --> 00:46:18,480 of the Rings. You're probably just gonna go watch Lord 1049 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,360 of the Rings. But I do think this is this 1050 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,280 is I mean even brings the Power now too. It's 1051 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,239 we're always going backwards, right, So I think this one 1052 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,400 is a cool, kind of separate way to get in there. 1053 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,000 And yeah, I thought the connections were mostly tasteful. 1054 00:46:30,519 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. 1055 00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:32,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1056 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: The one I rolled my was with was Gandalf, and 1057 00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:37,440 I had no issues with like where she was going 1058 00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:39,440 and like it makes sense, like Okay, a wizard wants 1059 00:46:39,519 --> 00:46:41,920 to talk to me about something, and like it's okay, 1060 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,639 that's kind of fun, Like I like it until he's like, oh, yeah, 1061 00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:46,760 what's his name? Oh he goes by many names, and 1062 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,800 it's like, okay, they're going a little bit too far here. Yeah, 1063 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,760 and then ten seconds later, he's like, his name's Gandalf. 1064 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,480 It's like, holy fuck, Okay, there's many the one that 1065 00:46:53,519 --> 00:46:54,000 I think of. 1066 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 2: I was like, are they gonna say grand Elf? I 1067 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,119 was like, I don't want to go there. The power 1068 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,320 that would have been a bit extra cheesey, would have 1069 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,760 been maybe too synchronous, deed with rings of power which 1070 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,239 probably had no relation to each other. 1071 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, I was trying to like think of like 1072 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,280 what the Rohrem people would have been like referring to him, 1073 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,559 because people Gondor, I think they call him m Nathanir 1074 00:47:17,679 --> 00:47:19,800 or something like that, Like they have a different name 1075 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,360 for him, Mithrandier, that that's what it is. And then 1076 00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:25,719 of course you know the possessed they had and King 1077 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,360 calls him gandal storm Crow. So like I was curious 1078 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,079 if they're going to be saying something of that sort. 1079 00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:33,719 I mean, it's pretty obvious who it is, even if 1080 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,599 you aren't that well deeped in the Tolkien lore, Like 1081 00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:39,000 I think you could imagine Scandalf, like we just saw Sourman, 1082 00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:40,760 so we know that the Astari are kind of here. 1083 00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:45,000 But yeah, I definitely rolled my eyes at that one. 1084 00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:47,119 It just seemed like the one that really overstayed. It's 1085 00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:50,519 welcome compared to the other ones. But just just because 1086 00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:52,400 we were talking about like some of the actually, let's 1087 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,199 take quick ayd break before we keep going. We right back, 1088 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,760 all right, we are back the location where I wanted 1089 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,199 to go next. It was kind of in the dairy 1090 00:48:02,199 --> 00:48:06,480 air of Helm's Deep and just weird ways to start 1091 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,239 that sentence, but just piggybacking on what we were talking about, 1092 00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,400 like the fantasy side of it, and it's kind of fun. 1093 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,199 I never really thought about this now until we were 1094 00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:19,079 having this conversation of just what is believable when it 1095 00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:21,840 comes to like Lord of the Rings of like being like, oh, well, 1096 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,960 now they got ghosts in here, and they kind of 1097 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,360 always had stuff like that, right, And it's just the 1098 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,039 stuff that's the most palatable, I guess, like it just 1099 00:48:29,079 --> 00:48:31,599 doesn't really bug us as much. But something like for 1100 00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:34,360 when Hara her plan is essentially to take like the 1101 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,840 armor of helm Hammer hand and just scale an ice 1102 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,000 wall to go up to where like a great eagle 1103 00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:42,559 is staying, which is like a big gamble, extremely hard 1104 00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:45,960 to do, extremely dangerous. Yeah, and she's like the leader 1105 00:48:46,039 --> 00:48:48,960 of the Rohan people, so can't really afford to just 1106 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,760 lose her in the in this moment, but yeah, she 1107 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,840 does that, and then she is able to converse well 1108 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,840 one way with the with the Great Eagle, which Tyro 1109 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,840 and I were kind of talking on it, that was Guahir, 1110 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,280 which is like the like the King of the Eagles. 1111 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,920 Speaker 2: He did seem exceptionally bigger. But once again, is that 1112 00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:09,000 fable or is that like the actual tale, but he 1113 00:49:09,039 --> 00:49:12,119 did seem distinct from eagles that we've seen in the 1114 00:49:12,159 --> 00:49:13,239 other northern stuff. 1115 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm under the impression it's not just because if 1116 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,960 I remember correctly, in like the book with the Fellowship, 1117 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,880 like where Gandalf actually is like saved by the eagle, 1118 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,039 he like kind of takes them to like the eagle 1119 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,079 HQ more or less like it's just where like a 1120 00:49:30,119 --> 00:49:31,760 bunch of other eagles are, and it just seemed like 1121 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,840 this one's really on its own and just like on 1122 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,440 like a random spot in the mountains. So I just 1123 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,400 don't think it really is Guaher. I feel like Guahi 1124 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,960 would be more in like a palace of eagles, not 1125 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,159 that they have like big architecture like that, but just 1126 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,320 I don't know, maybe a round more eagles because he 1127 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,840 is like the king of them, so gotcha, But no confirmation. 1128 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,400 I really don't know for sure, but just the fact 1129 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,159 that she's going through all these things and then like 1130 00:49:53,159 --> 00:49:55,400 delivers it, and then the eagle is what transports the 1131 00:49:55,519 --> 00:49:58,360 armor to this other guy and then that's what started. 1132 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,679 It's like that could be another thing that's just is 1133 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,239 that really what happened or is it just like maybe 1134 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,320 maybe they sent a pigeon or something, you know, to 1135 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,639 like say we need help. But it's just so much 1136 00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:11,519 more mythological and like legendary, just the idea of like 1137 00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:14,480 from the villain's perspective, they turn around and they just 1138 00:50:14,519 --> 00:50:17,079 see helmhammer hand like blowing his horn. It's like, this 1139 00:50:17,159 --> 00:50:19,440 guy will not die. He was just punching us out 1140 00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:21,519 last night and froze to death, and here he is 1141 00:50:21,559 --> 00:50:24,000 on a horse like behind us. Like I just love 1142 00:50:24,159 --> 00:50:26,559 all of that stuff. So but that's another one that 1143 00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:28,880 you could make the argument of, like I don't know 1144 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,800 if that happened exactly. However, if you think of like 1145 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,880 Return of the King, Ericorn went in and just spoke 1146 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,320 to the dead and brought out like an evil undead 1147 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,719 army to just take out the bad guys at the 1148 00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:44,360 War of the Pelnor Field, so I you know, it 1149 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,800 could be completely accurate what actually happened. 1150 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, at least in this too. Like one 1151 00:50:49,039 --> 00:50:50,960 another moments, I really like I think it's even the 1152 00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:53,239 opening of the movie is when Harro is just like 1153 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,800 riding through, riding through the planes. She has like some 1154 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,480 meat and she's just kind of tracking following these eagles. 1155 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,000 Eventually gets to a bit of an outcropping little hill situation, 1156 00:51:03,519 --> 00:51:05,519 tosses it to one of them and like seems like 1157 00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:07,920 they're gonna have a nice not embrace. I was about 1158 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,840 to say embrace. They're not gonna hug each other, but 1159 00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,320 at least like acknowledge each other. And then he kind 1160 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,559 of like, ah, this box then flies away. She's like, oh, okay, 1161 00:51:15,639 --> 00:51:18,039 that happened. And then she flies back or she rides 1162 00:51:18,079 --> 00:51:20,360 back rather to Rohana, and everyone kind of choows her 1163 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:21,800 out for doing that because that was a very risky 1164 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,079 thing to do. But to me, like that, I guess 1165 00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:26,880 that makes that thing more believable or realistic at the 1166 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,239 end that like one, she's already met this eagle before 1167 00:51:29,639 --> 00:51:33,159 and she has shown like she has so kindness to it. 1168 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,320 She fed it and like didn't try to attack it 1169 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,079 in that moment. It wasn't some trap. So I think 1170 00:51:38,119 --> 00:51:40,480 that makes it a little bit more believable and maybe 1171 00:51:40,519 --> 00:51:43,400 slightly less risky for her because she feels like, Okay, well, 1172 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,599 last time I interacted with this, Well, I guess she 1173 00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:47,719 wouldn't know if it's the exact same one, but at 1174 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,920 least last time she didn't get killed by it, so 1175 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,760 maybe maybe she could talk her way through it. And 1176 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,199 and I think it's also part of that is she 1177 00:51:54,199 --> 00:51:55,880 gives them a lot of respects. She doesn't like treat 1178 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,559 them like they's some beast, right like she knows or 1179 00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:01,000 she she at least has heard rumors. They can understand 1180 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,599 human tongue, and so she can at least like reason 1181 00:52:03,639 --> 00:52:06,000 with it or try to. But I really like that 1182 00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:07,639 because I think the eagles, once again, are one of 1183 00:52:07,639 --> 00:52:09,880 those things as a kid that I was like, oh, yeah, 1184 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:11,679 they're just cool eagles, but like, I never really thought 1185 00:52:11,679 --> 00:52:13,599 more deeply about it, And it's more with rings of 1186 00:52:13,679 --> 00:52:15,559 power and more discussions with you that like, oh yeah, 1187 00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:17,519 these eagles have a lot more going on to them 1188 00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:19,400 and the lore and they're a lot smarter and wiser 1189 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,199 and have their own societies and the kingdoms, as you 1190 00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,599 mentioned to some extent, and so I think it makes 1191 00:52:23,639 --> 00:52:27,440 a lot more sense or makes more sense. I just 1192 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,000 think it was a cool thing to see in this 1193 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,519 and I think it fit the anime aesthetic too. It 1194 00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:33,400 just feels like a ghibli thing to have these majestic 1195 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,719 eagles flying around. So I really like that that angle 1196 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,639 of it, and that feels like the perfect thing too. 1197 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,159 We need some backup. There's very little options we have 1198 00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:44,320 here backed in this corner of helms Deep, and the 1199 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,000 eagles are one of the very few. So I think 1200 00:52:46,039 --> 00:52:47,199 that was it was a cool moment. 1201 00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:50,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. They're like the ancient ally right of the good 1202 00:52:50,679 --> 00:52:53,199 guys and definitely one of like the older species. And 1203 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,440 I love what you said how she shows the respect 1204 00:52:56,519 --> 00:52:58,840 that basically they're due, you know, thinking about like Harry 1205 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:04,039 Potter and the hippogriff versus uh, how how Malfoy handled 1206 00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:07,800 the situation. Yeah, So I think that's a big aspect 1207 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,039 to it, and just the idea of them being this 1208 00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:14,000 really ancient species that they really don't need to help 1209 00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:17,800 like these you know, like kingdoms rise and fall and 1210 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,000 that like the eagles just outlive them all. But at 1211 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,679 the same time, like there was no thing. 1212 00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:26,599 Speaker 2: Like time or lifespan wise, because obviously in Lordtherns is 1213 00:53:26,639 --> 00:53:29,719 crazy elves can live forever. Yeah, our clientic kind of 1214 00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,559 more standard timeline, Like I don't know, I'm guessing eagle 1215 00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:35,280 lifespans like at least a couple hundred years, but I'm thinking, like, 1216 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,800 is this king eagle that you're talking about just have 1217 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,360 they been just around for hundreds or thousands of years? 1218 00:53:41,199 --> 00:53:43,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not. I'm not too sure, like I like 1219 00:53:43,199 --> 00:53:47,840 going here. Yeah, So first thing I see, which I 1220 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,719 don't know the credibility of this, but it just says 1221 00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,480 an eagle's lifespan is at least sixty five hundred years, 1222 00:53:52,519 --> 00:53:56,119 which makes sense because Ghir has just been their leader 1223 00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,159 since like essentially the first age, which is like he 1224 00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:02,840 was helping the elves fight like the minions of more 1225 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,440 Gooth and stuff like that. So they are an extremely 1226 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,400 ancient species. I just wasn't sure if that was like 1227 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,920 the lifespan or just the species overall, but they very 1228 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,320 much feel like definitely at least like gandalf age I 1229 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,079 would imagine, which is like unknown. So but yeah, I 1230 00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,079 never really thought about that too much, just because you know, 1231 00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:25,880 we don't really like they are a key piece to 1232 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,960 the whole adventure of the Lord of the Rings, but 1233 00:54:28,599 --> 00:54:30,559 very much we don't spend time with like there's not 1234 00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:34,320 a chapter on the Eagles and discussing stuff like that. 1235 00:54:34,519 --> 00:54:36,920 But and I think for me that also adds to 1236 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,159 their intrigue is just the mystery factor to them and 1237 00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:45,400 really just like the most ancient good and like there's 1238 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,079 well regarded people can like really converse with them, like 1239 00:54:48,119 --> 00:54:49,960 the Wizards, right, like they say that the Wizards can 1240 00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,599 actually have back and forth conversations with them. Yeah, big 1241 00:54:54,679 --> 00:54:55,840 big people fan for sure. 1242 00:54:56,199 --> 00:54:59,880 Speaker 2: And even like the slight minor connection with Hera and 1243 00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:03,000 Gandalf in this, like I assume prior to the events 1244 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,079 of this that Gandalf has already interacted with eagles, but 1245 00:55:06,159 --> 00:55:09,239 if he hasn't, and like Haro was retelling what happened 1246 00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,639 to him and explaining everything and mentioned like the eagles 1247 00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:15,199 came to save save us and help us, like I'm 1248 00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:17,480 sure that would, I don't know, give him a bit 1249 00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:19,719 more faith in wanting to trust them, and ends up 1250 00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,079 being they end up being like a big crucial part 1251 00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:25,800 of saving the day in one recovering him from Helm 1252 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,400 or from Eisngard, but then also obviously at the very 1253 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,440 end of Mount Doom, So I don't know, I like 1254 00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:33,679 that like minor connection there too. I'm sure he was 1255 00:55:33,679 --> 00:55:35,599 already can noodling with the eagles prior to that, but 1256 00:55:35,679 --> 00:55:39,199 if he hadn't been, that's that's a nice little way 1257 00:55:39,199 --> 00:55:41,239 you can kind of connect those things a little through line. 1258 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's awesome. I just fully further clicked down 1259 00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:49,000 on the Great Eagles, and yeah, mortals as elves, it 1260 00:55:49,039 --> 00:55:51,840 looks like they were, it says, devised, but kind of 1261 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,239 created by Manway, which is like the leader of the Valar. 1262 00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,480 He's like the king of the Valar, which are like 1263 00:55:56,679 --> 00:56:00,719 the gods essentially, it's like it's like a room, you know, 1264 00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,320 and then like the Valars, which are like his children, 1265 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,079 so a ruse like the one being. And it says 1266 00:56:07,119 --> 00:56:09,440 that the eagles were the messengers of man Way, so 1267 00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,199 very much been around since the dawn of time, very 1268 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,079 much immortal. So yeah, yeah, that eagle that she spoke 1269 00:56:16,119 --> 00:56:18,440 to probably you know, been around since like the first age, 1270 00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,480 which is pretty I don't know, it's not really like 1271 00:56:20,519 --> 00:56:22,800 it doesn't matter. That character was probably not even thought 1272 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,599 of originally in Tolkien. It was just out of the story. 1273 00:56:24,639 --> 00:56:26,559 But for me, like, I'm just like I love that. 1274 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,519 I love just thinking about the history of these worlds. 1275 00:56:29,559 --> 00:56:35,920 So uh yeah, we're talking about Helm. You don't talk 1276 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:37,639 about the rest of the family like we're talking about Hara. 1277 00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:41,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I've really anything brothers, to be honest, 1278 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:43,559 I Halleth. 1279 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,920 Speaker 1: That was like basically Karl Urban's character from Two Towers, 1280 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,159 Like he's like the big like brawn that I'm just like, man, 1281 00:56:51,159 --> 00:56:53,599 there's always like a son of Rohan that looks like this, 1282 00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,320 and he reminded me of yes, Karl Urban's character Aowen 1283 00:56:58,119 --> 00:57:03,559 or not Aowen Uh yeah, Amir. And also there's a 1284 00:57:03,639 --> 00:57:08,039 character in Warhammer, my favorite Hyel's character, Ali Star of 1285 00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,800 the Great Lions or like al Star of the White Lions, 1286 00:57:11,079 --> 00:57:13,000 and he has like a giant axe like that, and 1287 00:57:13,039 --> 00:57:14,920 he's just he's just a badass, so very much the 1288 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:15,760 same energy. 1289 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,559 Speaker 2: There always love an ax User, It's fire armblem. It's 1290 00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:20,400 always one of my favorite unit types. 1291 00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm glad we got to see him pop off a 1292 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,400 little bit before you know, he took the Arrow to 1293 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:24,719 the Throat wild Way. 1294 00:57:24,519 --> 00:57:26,440 Speaker 2: To Go, But that was a brutal shot man. 1295 00:57:27,639 --> 00:57:29,920 Speaker 1: The one that really goby though was Hama. That was 1296 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,880 like the the the other younger brother, like with the 1297 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,599 lute or whatever he had. He just just seems so 1298 00:57:34,639 --> 00:57:36,360 much more so you always have the buff brother and 1299 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:37,079 the artist brother. 1300 00:57:37,119 --> 00:57:37,920 Speaker 2: It's just like Craven. 1301 00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:40,039 Speaker 1: It's just like Craven, just like Craven. 1302 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:41,239 Speaker 2: You're totally right. 1303 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,039 Speaker 1: Oh no, there's more similarities to this movie Craven than 1304 00:57:44,039 --> 00:57:47,440 I would have hoped. But yeah, no, I I really 1305 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,400 liked Hama and just the idea of like the horse 1306 00:57:50,519 --> 00:57:52,840 just getting like absolutely gassed. We never see that, yeah, 1307 00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,119 really in movies much, especially in Lord of the Rings 1308 00:57:55,119 --> 00:57:57,519 when a lot of these horses are just asked like. 1309 00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,000 Speaker 2: A humanized the horses. Yeah, I appreciate it. 1310 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,880 Speaker 1: I was so sad though, like when the horse was 1311 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:04,960 just like can't keep going. I'm like, oh no, this 1312 00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:07,079 is this is heart wrenching, like for the horse, for 1313 00:58:07,159 --> 00:58:10,079 this guy. And I just like the scene too when 1314 00:58:10,159 --> 00:58:12,039 you could just hear like the hooves getting closer and 1315 00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:14,440 he's just like drawn his bow. It's like a last 1316 00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,920 stand sort of thing. So yeah, I really liked that scene, 1317 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,320 as sad as it was, and it was just I 1318 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,519 think I like the chemistry. We don't get a lot 1319 00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:25,000 of it, but amongst all the siblings we get some 1320 00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:28,119 of that. I don't know, like they seem really close, 1321 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,920 even though like Hara feels like the black sheep just 1322 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,320 because she's not a guy. I guess like she can't 1323 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,079 be a soldier through the eyes of her father. But 1324 00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:40,079 I just like the family dynamic there, and it's one 1325 00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:41,400 of those things where I'm like, man, if this was 1326 00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,239 like a show, you know, like drawn out of our 1327 00:58:43,239 --> 00:58:44,960 whole season, Like I just would have loved to see 1328 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,840 some of those character bonding moments because they just seemed 1329 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,320 really close. And I knew the sons were gonna die, 1330 00:58:51,639 --> 00:58:54,280 you know, fairly soon. They lasted maybe longer than I 1331 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,280 would have expected, and they went out, Yeah they went 1332 00:58:58,280 --> 00:58:58,840 out too soon. 1333 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,119 Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think I've much to 1334 00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:02,800 add on them. One character, though, I did really like 1335 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,199 I believe her name is Olwin. She was the kind 1336 00:59:05,199 --> 00:59:09,199 of shield maiden. Yeah, she assisted there, helps break Hara 1337 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,280 out of imprisonment when she's when she's locked in there. 1338 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,000 But that was another cool way that I think they 1339 00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:17,320 touched on, just kind of the history and the fable, 1340 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,920 the myth of everything, or even like that opening sequence 1341 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,400 in the Rohan House or not the opening sequence, but 1342 00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,280 early on in the movie, and they're like talking about 1343 00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,679 all like the banners that represent the different nations and stuff, 1344 00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:29,719 and they have the shield Maiden one and the King's like, yeah, 1345 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,400 should we take that down? Like those those guys have 1346 00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:32,960 been around, they haven't been around for a while. I 1347 00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,440 don't think they're relevant anymore. But then like, oh, there's 1348 00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,920 still a couple that are kicking around. And like, even 1349 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,880 though she's like an old lady in this, I thought 1350 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,360 she was so cool. I don't know if I could 1351 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,119 really explain, like personality wise, why I liked her so much. 1352 00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:47,159 I just thought she was so cool. I like her 1353 00:59:47,199 --> 00:59:49,440 she was talking about I forget. She had a really 1354 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,320 cool line about like the shield Yeah it's not broken, 1355 00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,960 but it's broken in something like that. I thought that 1356 00:59:56,039 --> 00:59:58,400 was really really nice, and obviously that kind of connected 1357 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,079 her to Hara at the end too kind of be 1358 01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:02,760 came the I don't know the remainder of like the 1359 01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,400 shield Maidens. But yeah, I really liked that character. 1360 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,039 Speaker 1: I'm really glad she didn't die too, Like it's the 1361 01:00:08,119 --> 01:00:10,559 character I would have expected to have that heroic sacrifice 1362 01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:13,599 at the end. But yeah, it was a nice little 1363 01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,199 cute sendoff, right when like you're no longer bound to me, 1364 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:18,840 it's like, all right, so where are we going? Like 1365 01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,039 she's just going as a friend essentially. So yeah, I 1366 01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:24,760 really love that character. And it was also an interesting 1367 01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,679 character to have in the dynamic of like, let's let's 1368 01:00:28,679 --> 01:00:31,559 say Helm and Harah, Like there's some tension there where 1369 01:00:31,679 --> 01:00:34,239 Helm just wants her to basically be like a baby 1370 01:00:34,239 --> 01:00:36,480 maker and like, you know, you don't belong anywhere near 1371 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,960 to the battlefield, but he clearly has so much respect 1372 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,119 and like admiration for Olwin, which is kind of like 1373 01:00:42,159 --> 01:00:44,960 a similar situation where Okay, well she's a female, right 1374 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,239 and she's one of your best soldiers you have, and 1375 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,960 you clearly understand that because you had the moment like 1376 01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,880 what you just highlighted when she told him that she 1377 01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,719 wanted a new shield and it's like, now your shield's 1378 01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,840 not broken and just broken in and just like sees 1379 01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,199 her in the sense of like trusting her to guard 1380 01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:03,599 his daughter, right like his most prized possession in the 1381 01:01:03,679 --> 01:01:07,480 entire world, and he has Olwen in that role, And yeah, 1382 01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,639 she's just such a strong character, and I really liked 1383 01:01:11,639 --> 01:01:14,159 her throughout the whole film, and I'm glad that we 1384 01:01:14,159 --> 01:01:16,199 didn't lose her for many different reasons, but also just 1385 01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:20,039 like Harah is very alone, like through like losing basically 1386 01:01:20,039 --> 01:01:22,760 their whole family and only a couple of days, right, 1387 01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,000 like like it really, yeah, well we get some time 1388 01:01:25,039 --> 01:01:25,760 skips later on. 1389 01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,639 Speaker 2: It's hard to know how much time passes in this movie. Yeah, 1390 01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:29,880 in general. 1391 01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:33,159 Speaker 1: And like adding onto that, I feel like sometimes that 1392 01:01:33,159 --> 01:01:35,039 can be jarring, but for me, it really didn't bother 1393 01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:37,199 me at all. Like it's like, okay, Winter's coming, and 1394 01:01:37,199 --> 01:01:40,000 then we get a scene where snow's there, and it's just, yeah, okay, 1395 01:01:40,039 --> 01:01:43,039 we're we're weeks in or something. And you even get Hara 1396 01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:45,440 that gets like scratched by Wolf, and then like the 1397 01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,639 next time we see her when it's snowy, like it's gone, 1398 01:01:47,679 --> 01:01:49,800 so it's like, okay, like starting to heal up a 1399 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,480 little bit. And I don't know, it's just I'm glad 1400 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,199 we didn't get like a five years later Ben or something. 1401 01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,119 Speaker 2: We don't need that kind of stuff. You can kind 1402 01:01:57,119 --> 01:01:59,440 of we as the viewer, will fill in the gap. 1403 01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,159 You don't need to treat us like babies, you. 1404 01:02:01,119 --> 01:02:04,719 Speaker 1: Know, yeah, exactly, don't spoof feed us Scandal's name at 1405 01:02:04,719 --> 01:02:05,519 the end of the movie. 1406 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:11,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I guess it's the thing in general, 1407 01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:14,559 Like I feel like this the scale of this movie 1408 01:02:14,679 --> 01:02:16,760 really surprised me, and the scale of the of the 1409 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,519 battles and whatnot. Just the the row here battle there 1410 01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:23,920 or or the run in Rohan by ed ter Ass 1411 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,079 like pretty small scale battle. Like we did get some 1412 01:02:26,119 --> 01:02:28,719 Olephonts in there, so that's like the biggest scale element 1413 01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,639 of it. But I think that's just like naturally, what's 1414 01:02:30,639 --> 01:02:33,079 gonna happen when with a battle between men in these movies, 1415 01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:35,440 Like it's naturally when we get into Orcs and the 1416 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,400 stuff they're doing, Elves or even like you know, the 1417 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,800 dwarves can build some crazy shit. That's where you get 1418 01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,400 like some bigger scale stuff going on. But even like 1419 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,639 the Helm's Deep, like it's it's hard to call it 1420 01:02:47,639 --> 01:02:49,800 the it's like a Battle of Helm's Deep proto version, 1421 01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,039 but it's like it's so much smaller scale, but there's 1422 01:02:52,039 --> 01:02:53,719 not a lot of battling going on. It's really just 1423 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,440 like the army outside building this tower for months and 1424 01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,000 months and months and then we have like a final skirmish, 1425 01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,159 but like even that's pret small scale. Feels like there's 1426 01:03:01,199 --> 01:03:03,800 only like one hundred two hundred people involved in this 1427 01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,639 whole thing, and so it was a little bit different 1428 01:03:06,639 --> 01:03:09,239 once again, like very surprising for me, like just animated. 1429 01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:10,519 I thought they were gonna go all out with some 1430 01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:12,800 of these things, but even like calling to the war 1431 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,480 wro here and it feels like a little over zealous 1432 01:03:15,519 --> 01:03:17,239 to call it that's a good movie title. I guess, 1433 01:03:17,239 --> 01:03:18,960 you know, that's the kind of thing that they would 1434 01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,199 call something if they want to get people to go 1435 01:03:20,239 --> 01:03:22,079 to the theaters. I mean, doesn't look like that really 1436 01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:24,840 worked necessarily, But yeah, that was something that surprised me 1437 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,079 in general. And I feel like Helm's deep. Obviously nothing's 1438 01:03:27,079 --> 01:03:29,119 going to compare to that battle from Two Towers. That's 1439 01:03:29,159 --> 01:03:32,039 just iconic. I love seeing the snowy setting for it though. 1440 01:03:32,039 --> 01:03:34,440 I thought that was really fun. And then just that 1441 01:03:34,519 --> 01:03:36,239 like the building the siege tower. That was cool, but 1442 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:37,480 it was like that was kind of the whole thing. 1443 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,719 I didn't expect that that would be what we spend 1444 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,360 most of the time doing there, Like I thought that 1445 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,039 would just be one phase of it, but that was 1446 01:03:43,119 --> 01:03:45,599 kind of the whole plan was just this one tower. 1447 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,239 Speaker 1: No, yeah, that's I completely agree with you where I 1448 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,320 think coming into I would have expected just all out 1449 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:54,320 action throughout the whole thing. But it's like the best 1450 01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,119 parts about this movie aren't the action really, Like it's 1451 01:03:57,199 --> 01:04:00,719 actually like the human character moments in in like the 1452 01:04:01,079 --> 01:04:04,840 siege that's going on. So I yeah, I was surprised 1453 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:09,039 by that, and I really did admire actually like the 1454 01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:11,679 length of time, like the whole siege took. And I 1455 01:04:11,679 --> 01:04:14,159 feel like growing up just because of things like Helm's 1456 01:04:14,159 --> 01:04:16,320 Deep or like other movies I've seen, you just kind 1457 01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,039 of assume sieges are just like like a one day thing, 1458 01:04:19,159 --> 01:04:21,360 like you just kind of go there, you attack the gate, 1459 01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,400 you know, you light the gate on fire, you get in, 1460 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,679 you win or you lose, and you know, of course 1461 01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:29,639 now just I'm addicted to things like Warhammer and like 1462 01:04:29,679 --> 01:04:33,719 sieging is a big aspect to it, and siegen is horrible. 1463 01:04:34,119 --> 01:04:36,840 It's horrible for defenders and it's horrible for attackers. But 1464 01:04:37,119 --> 01:04:39,760 I think it's just horrible because both sides are gonna 1465 01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:41,840 lose a lot of men and it takes so much 1466 01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,880 resources to get just into the gates. Let alone, like 1467 01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,199 take it over. And even if you have like ten 1468 01:04:47,239 --> 01:04:51,400 to one, like just ratios, like I feel like it 1469 01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,000 doesn't really matter sometimes, like especially if you have a 1470 01:04:54,039 --> 01:04:57,480 location like Helm's Deep, that's just so you're like rats 1471 01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,559 in the mountain, Like it's just so hard to flush 1472 01:04:59,639 --> 01:05:01,679 them out and to actually get in there. And I 1473 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:05,119 like that. Literally they just spent like months, well I 1474 01:05:05,119 --> 01:05:08,000 guess not months, but weeks upon weeks just building these 1475 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,320 like big siege engines to get in there, because that's 1476 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,840 kind of like how it was, like, you know, this 1477 01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:14,440 is this is Lord of the Rings, but still just 1478 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,599 like ancient siegeing. It was a long drawn out problems 1479 01:05:17,719 --> 01:05:18,519 all feels. 1480 01:05:18,239 --> 01:05:21,199 Speaker 2: A lot bigger than it did in Two Towers. 1481 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,559 Speaker 1: As well, for sure, Yeah, absolutely sure when you see 1482 01:05:23,559 --> 01:05:28,400 that engine just being risen up by the drummer building 1483 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,880 out front. Yeah, but and like I like the siege 1484 01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,079 like thing, Like at first I thought it was just 1485 01:05:34,119 --> 01:05:35,920 gonna be a siege tower like what they had in 1486 01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,639 Helms Deep when they just pushed them and then you know, 1487 01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,480 the gate comes down. But I was never would never 1488 01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:44,039 have expected this is just like giant bridge that they 1489 01:05:44,119 --> 01:05:45,480 just drop onto it and then they. 1490 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,719 Speaker 2: Just cool drummer, just being on top of that, drumming 1491 01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,079 till his death as he crashes into the wall, the 1492 01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:54,960 first one to like hit the siege ball crazy. I 1493 01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:56,800 loved that. It was just so metal. 1494 01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,639 Speaker 1: It felt like, yeah, it felt like Mad MAXI. Yeah, 1495 01:06:00,679 --> 01:06:03,599 you get like the Crazy Boys. That's how it felt. 1496 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:05,639 But I liked it. It was something new and different, 1497 01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:07,440 and like when they started raising it, I'm like, what 1498 01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:09,719 the fuck even is this thing? It's just a giant ladder. 1499 01:06:10,039 --> 01:06:12,800 But no, it was a big bridge, and you know, 1500 01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,639 they lived on fire. It took a while to burn, 1501 01:06:14,679 --> 01:06:17,119 but yeah, it took really long time to build. 1502 01:06:17,679 --> 01:06:21,880 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah. I think the only character that I 1503 01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,920 haven't mentioned yet. This was a funny sequence when when 1504 01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,679 Helm kind of gets to the gate at first, is 1505 01:06:29,719 --> 01:06:32,679 before he's turned to the Wraith and all that, they 1506 01:06:32,719 --> 01:06:34,440 take him to like the infirmary and they're trying to 1507 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,320 heal him up, and he's just he's just passed out 1508 01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,079 and they're like, I don't know, he's he's alive, but 1509 01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:40,039 he's just all waking up that kind of thing. And 1510 01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:42,000 you have like an old lady, like an old hag 1511 01:06:42,079 --> 01:06:44,559 type in there, and she's like walking around and She 1512 01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:47,599 just had like a very like that kind of crackly 1513 01:06:47,679 --> 01:06:50,000 old voice, and that was what was making the other 1514 01:06:50,039 --> 01:06:53,039 guy in the theater crack up laughing, Like anytime she spoke, 1515 01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:55,559 he just started laughing. And then I started laughing too, 1516 01:06:55,599 --> 01:06:57,840 because I was like, this was maybe a little absurd, 1517 01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:00,239 but yeah, that was it. That was a funny a 1518 01:07:00,239 --> 01:07:01,800 funny character throwing there. 1519 01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,519 Speaker 1: I didn't love her too much. I feel like she 1520 01:07:04,599 --> 01:07:06,079 was just kind of there to like fill us in 1521 01:07:06,119 --> 01:07:08,800 some history, right with like the bride dress and just 1522 01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,559 being this kooky old lady in the in the tower 1523 01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:15,280 because like she has she has her moments just being 1524 01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,960 like very bizarre. And then at the end there's like 1525 01:07:18,199 --> 01:07:20,880 kind of a heartwarming moment when she like gives the child, 1526 01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,360 like the the device you know that supposedly Harra thought 1527 01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:25,840 she was just gonna burn it, but she ended up 1528 01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,719 passing it on. So there was some surprising amount of 1529 01:07:29,719 --> 01:07:33,559 heart with the character that just seems crazy when she introduced, like, 1530 01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:35,400 I feel like all the scenes with her, I just 1531 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:36,679 didn't know what I was gonna get. It was just 1532 01:07:36,719 --> 01:07:38,360 a wild card. And then I was surprised at the 1533 01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:39,880 end when she had that one with a little with 1534 01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,280 the little one. But yeah, yeah. 1535 01:07:43,199 --> 01:07:45,519 Speaker 2: That kid, by the way, felt a lot. He kind 1536 01:07:45,519 --> 01:07:48,760 of felt like the merry equivalent of this kind of 1537 01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,039 being like the squire type boy being there, like he 1538 01:07:51,079 --> 01:07:52,880 doesn't really get on the battlefield in that same way. 1539 01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:55,760 But uh yeah, I felt like another comparison point. 1540 01:07:56,679 --> 01:07:58,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know he was. He was a hard worker, right, 1541 01:07:58,360 --> 01:07:59,760 he was like his first day of job, and then 1542 01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:01,079 he had no idea this was gonna be. 1543 01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,039 Speaker 2: He carried that gear up like to her in the 1544 01:08:04,039 --> 01:08:07,440 first place, right, the Elms Elms armor set. 1545 01:08:08,239 --> 01:08:10,239 Speaker 1: Haarah gave him a nice hug at the end, so 1546 01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:12,159 they bond a little bit. I like the moment too, 1547 01:08:12,159 --> 01:08:15,679 when he was just like super nervous, like his first 1548 01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,399 day being like the banner boy, and then he's like 1549 01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:19,600 going through and he's like trying to learn all these 1550 01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,760 and then like half like it's just like gone, it's 1551 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:23,279 like scratched out. He doesn't even know what it is. 1552 01:08:23,319 --> 01:08:26,319 And then that's kind of Hara's moment of appearance. 1553 01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,359 Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know if I have much else 1554 01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,800 on the other characters that we didn't hit, but I 1555 01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:35,720 think we got all of them. Is there anything else 1556 01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:38,399 on on Hara like about that character that we haven't 1557 01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,640 discussed yet that you enjoyed. 1558 01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,920 Speaker 1: I think I think for me, I mean, I just 1559 01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,079 I really like the character. Like I think she was 1560 01:08:47,319 --> 01:08:50,520 really really well easy to root for. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 1561 01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,840 She she's our hero of the story and very deserving 1562 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,880 of our of our support because I feel like she 1563 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,600 keeps like getting especially early on in the story when 1564 01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,680 her father's just kind of saying you don't belong anywhere here. 1565 01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,520 It's very easy to just be like defeated and like 1566 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,199 oh my god, like my life sucks, and just like whining. 1567 01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:11,399 But she never really like has time to do that 1568 01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:13,760 because by the time like she's feeling sad, that's when 1569 01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,159 she finds out like the lord Thorn symbol and then 1570 01:09:16,199 --> 01:09:18,439 she realized I've been betrayed, and she's just like right 1571 01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,199 away like getting on like the action and it's like, okay, 1572 01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:23,960 King's down here, so let's evac everyone. Like I don't 1573 01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:25,600 have time to go out in the battlefield as for 1574 01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:27,159 permission to do this, Like I just have to do 1575 01:09:27,199 --> 01:09:30,399 the things necessary. And she's just a great leader, right 1576 01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,319 Like great leaders. There's a great quote where great leaders 1577 01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,479 they don't choose to lead, they answer the call when 1578 01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,560 when they're called upon. Probably paraphrase that terribly, but still 1579 01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,960 it's pretty much what she did, and like she didn't 1580 01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:45,279 really have time to do all these things. It's just yeah, no, 1581 01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:47,920 evac everyone, we're doing this right now. And she's just 1582 01:09:48,399 --> 01:09:51,520 really solid leader in pretty much a similar vein for 1583 01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:53,800 me of like what Aragorn is right, Like he just 1584 01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,840 exudes the leadership and like, man, I've never been in 1585 01:09:57,840 --> 01:09:59,479 a fight in my life, but like I would follow 1586 01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,399 that guy at their Black gide Like if he gave 1587 01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:08,319 me a quote, you would up as the drummer boy, 1588 01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:10,760 I'm going up. If that guy gives me a speech, 1589 01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,119 I'm going like you just you just poorly boosting the 1590 01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:16,159 whole morale of everyone. And I think she symbolized that, 1591 01:10:16,319 --> 01:10:19,000 and I I loved her look again, I love the 1592 01:10:19,079 --> 01:10:21,680 character Yona from Yona the Dawn and very very similar 1593 01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:26,560 and it's just iconic appearance as well, Like even with 1594 01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,399 like the bride dress that she has at the end, 1595 01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:32,680 I thought that, yeah, no, it was great. Look. I 1596 01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,039 kind of forgot about the look. I remember the showcasing 1597 01:10:35,079 --> 01:10:37,640 that other than the trailer or like one of the screenshots, 1598 01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,319 but yeh, I just looked really cool. It looked ethereal honestly, 1599 01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:44,520 like it looked ghostly. Yeah, and then paired with her 1600 01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:48,359 with her just powerful red hair. It was great image. Again, 1601 01:10:48,399 --> 01:10:51,479 like not really easy to capture on live action, So like, 1602 01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,880 I'm glad that they really made are heroin like like 1603 01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:57,399 just stand out and in an anime way you know 1604 01:10:57,439 --> 01:10:59,600 that you can't normally do with live actions where you 1605 01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,880 can't do Yeah, and it may so Yeah, they definitely 1606 01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,840 like like even to some extent, Helm, you know, like 1607 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,800 the way he looks is a bit exaggerated, and then 1608 01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:11,640 obviously the King of the wild Men, like his his look. 1609 01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:15,720 Speaker 2: Is very like. Yeah, they've really felt like fire up 1610 01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:17,359 the villains the whole way through, like they had the 1611 01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:20,159 same color palette that a lot of them do. But yeah, 1612 01:11:20,199 --> 01:11:22,319 I feel like they did that sparingly in terms of 1613 01:11:22,319 --> 01:11:26,079 making characters look just like a regular Rohan kid and 1614 01:11:26,119 --> 01:11:28,239 then like making certain ones stand out and then obviously 1615 01:11:28,279 --> 01:11:30,760 talk about like the Eagle being bigger than we're used 1616 01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:32,840 to and stuff. But I think you're right, like Harad 1617 01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,079 definitely stands out in the crowd, Like if she was 1618 01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:37,520 the Wreswaldo of this would be easy to pick her out. 1619 01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:39,760 And I think that was really crucial, especially when she 1620 01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,239 has the dress at the end obviously that makes her 1621 01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:43,399 pop even more. 1622 01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:50,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm I think I'm noteless over here. 1623 01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,560 I think I'm noteless too. Actually, yeah, we hit all 1624 01:11:55,640 --> 01:12:02,000 my main points any means. Yeah, yeah, no, I I'll 1625 01:12:02,039 --> 01:12:05,319 go first. I guess I really really enjoyed this. I'm 1626 01:12:05,319 --> 01:12:08,920 glad this came out. Although maybe I wasn't a fan 1627 01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:14,239 with certain characters' decisions overall, like like the vanishing of 1628 01:12:14,279 --> 01:12:16,760 the One Gentleman, it just seemed like a like a 1629 01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:20,039 weak decision and like not really fully justified. But whatever, 1630 01:12:20,079 --> 01:12:21,800 we got the movie that we got, and I ended 1631 01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:23,640 up liking the whole story for the most part, and 1632 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,479 really liked what you said about just the framing of 1633 01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,239 it of being like a mythological type tale and not 1634 01:12:30,319 --> 01:12:33,520 really necessarily it's all like it's being set up of 1635 01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:35,800 like this is gonna be a one to one representation 1636 01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:38,800 or not. Like there's some ambiguity there and some gray area, 1637 01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,079 and I think it just really worked. And yeah, it 1638 01:12:42,119 --> 01:12:44,119 was two hour run time. I liked it a lot. 1639 01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,319 I think I could have taken honestly, Yeah, I think 1640 01:12:47,319 --> 01:12:48,760 it was I think it was really good run time, 1641 01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:51,560 especially for an animated film. It felt really really nice 1642 01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:55,920 paced wise, and yeah, no, I loved it. I think 1643 01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,119 I'm gonna give it. They might give it a nine 1644 01:12:58,159 --> 01:12:58,560 out of ten. 1645 01:12:58,880 --> 01:12:59,199 Speaker 2: Nice. 1646 01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, like one mark off just with some of like 1647 01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:07,000 the weird decision making there. Wolf was just so pathetic. 1648 01:13:07,039 --> 01:13:09,119 We don't really I don't know. I didn't keep talking 1649 01:13:09,159 --> 01:13:11,840 to him or I didn't keep going on about him 1650 01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,319 after we initially mentioned him, but just all of the 1651 01:13:14,359 --> 01:13:16,760 patheticness of what that character was is it was just 1652 01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,800 so goofy for me. But it but it fit, you know. 1653 01:13:19,079 --> 01:13:22,479 I like tell you brought up just the Weasley type 1654 01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,359 of archetype villains that we have in Lord of the 1655 01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:29,479 Rings and he definitely fit that category. Yeah no, I 1656 01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:32,199 I think it was solid and great score, as I 1657 01:13:32,199 --> 01:13:34,920 had already mentioned. And I want more of these Lord 1658 01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:36,760 of the Ring tails. We'll see what happens. 1659 01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,000 Speaker 2: I don't think we're gonna get them, unfortunately, based on 1660 01:13:39,239 --> 01:13:41,800 I think we're just gonna get as much like nostalgia 1661 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:45,520 bait as possible. Whoever, whatever actors will come back for 1662 01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,079 live action. They're gonna go that route and try and 1663 01:13:48,079 --> 01:13:49,840 make a profit, which makes sense. They have to run 1664 01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:52,880 a business. It's too bad. I hope this movie climbs 1665 01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,159 over the holiday break. I mean, there's so much competition 1666 01:13:55,199 --> 01:13:57,840 out there, so it's rough. Maybe it has a good 1667 01:13:58,159 --> 01:14:01,399 run on streaming, who knows, but yeah, hopefully hopefully it 1668 01:14:01,399 --> 01:14:03,600 can make some more money because this opening weekend projection 1669 01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:05,600 that we've seen is pretty I think it was even 1670 01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:08,239 worse than Craven right, which is like not good. Yeah, 1671 01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:10,960 so yeah, hopefully hopefully climbs. 1672 01:14:11,279 --> 01:14:14,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, not too too surprising. I think for me, like 1673 01:14:14,039 --> 01:14:16,239 best case scenario that could happen is just more people 1674 01:14:16,279 --> 01:14:19,159 get the like the possibility to use the rights of 1675 01:14:19,199 --> 01:14:20,560 Lord of the Rings, because then you can just get 1676 01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:23,239 more creative studios of doing and like you can even 1677 01:14:23,319 --> 01:14:25,239 market it at being not attached to Lord of the 1678 01:14:25,279 --> 01:14:27,960 Rings at all. But it's just a tale of Middle Earth. 1679 01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:30,920 I would love to see a future where that kind 1680 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:32,800 of happens, but it seems like right now it's being 1681 01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,319 kind of held close to the chest with whoever's couple 1682 01:14:35,359 --> 01:14:35,960 is right, So. 1683 01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:37,720 Speaker 2: I mean we're still gonna get some movies, but yeah, 1684 01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:40,039 we might just not get more like this unfortunately, So 1685 01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,560 can I enjoy it? Well, it's yeah, I'm gonna give 1686 01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:44,640 you a little bit lower than you I can. I 1687 01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:46,239 think I can give it an eight. I think I 1688 01:14:46,279 --> 01:14:48,399 was somewhere between like the seven and eight range, but 1689 01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:50,640 I'm gonna veer on the high side of that because 1690 01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,680 I really enjoyed this convo. I think there's some things 1691 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,560 that I ended up like I I at the start 1692 01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:56,920 of this, I was like, I don't think I'll rewatch 1693 01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:58,680 to this movie much, but I think after this discussion 1694 01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:01,119 it would be one that put on. It's just like, 1695 01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:03,119 you know, if I want Lord of the Rings, that's 1696 01:15:03,119 --> 01:15:05,039 a commitment. Because I can watch all these three movies. 1697 01:15:05,039 --> 01:15:08,239 They are long extended editions. Hopefully there's like maybe I 1698 01:15:08,239 --> 01:15:10,359 don't know, I don't know if there's normally extended editions 1699 01:15:10,359 --> 01:15:11,960 for animated movies. I feel like if they're gonna go 1700 01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,239 through the work of animating something, they get it in 1701 01:15:14,279 --> 01:15:16,359 the movie. But yeah, I feel like this one is 1702 01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:18,079 like a bit easier just the one and done kind 1703 01:15:18,079 --> 01:15:20,159 of watch, and so I'd probably put it on maybe 1704 01:15:20,159 --> 01:15:21,439 around the winter time. I feel like this is a 1705 01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,640 very wintery movie, with like the long snowy sequence in 1706 01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,920 Helms Deep there, which was really cool to see. So yeah, cool, 1707 01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:30,479 I'm gonna drop a nice, nice cool eight eight out 1708 01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:31,960 of ten on this puppy here. 1709 01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,039 Speaker 1: Nice I like it. Yeah, like our average eight and 1710 01:15:35,079 --> 01:15:39,199 a half. It's very good, beautiful. All right, ladies and gentlemen, 1711 01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:42,520 thanks for sticking through the whole review. Hope you enjoyed 1712 01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,880 the movie like we did, and hope you enjoyed the 1713 01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,840 the review even more so. Stay tuned the feedst a 1714 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:48,680 lot of stuff coming out. 1715 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:50,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess we should have plucked at the beginning 1716 01:15:50,199 --> 01:15:52,239 that we did in a retrospective for every single Lord 1717 01:15:52,279 --> 01:15:54,000 of the Rings move that exists, and we have reviews 1718 01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:55,760 for all Rings of Power. So if you want more 1719 01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:58,399 Middle Earth, boy, do we got you covered? Go check 1720 01:15:58,399 --> 01:15:59,000 out all that. 1721 01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:02,840 Speaker 1: Stuff place to be Absolutely yes, I apologize for something 1722 01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,880 on that one, but yes, it's a good time and 1723 01:16:06,159 --> 01:16:12,640 until next time, byebye. I would say just leave studio 1724 01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:13,479 instead of and stream