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<v Speaker 1>This is Later with Lee Matthews the Lee Matthews Podcast

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<v Speaker 1>More what You Hear Weekday Afternoon's on the Drive.

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<v Speaker 2>Jim Sullivan has spent twenty six years writing about music

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<v Speaker 2>for the Boston Globe. His works also appeared in USA Today, Boston,

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<v Speaker 2>Harold Trouser Press, The Boston Phoenix. I thought the Globe

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<v Speaker 2>and the Phoenix were competitors, Jim Sullivan.

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<v Speaker 3>There they were. The Phoenix went down in the mid

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<v Speaker 3>twenty fifteens, I think it was. I wrote for the

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<v Speaker 3>Globe from seventy nine to two thousand and five. I

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<v Speaker 3>left then and after that I did some freelancing for

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<v Speaker 3>other outlets. So yes, I became a competitor of my

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<v Speaker 3>old workplace.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh there was a joke that went around and if

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<v Speaker 2>you well, did you read it, then the Phoenix will

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<v Speaker 2>know it was in the Phoenix. That's why I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>read it. It had been in the Globe, I would

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<v Speaker 2>have read it. Maybe you've heard that bandid about.

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<v Speaker 3>I will say this, well, just quickly. One good thing

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<v Speaker 3>about Phoenix was I think because they had some very

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<v Speaker 3>good writers. I think it pushed us at the Globe

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<v Speaker 3>to be better and to write more. Yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 3>and to cover more things that were off the beaten trent.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, it was a good competitive relationship there.

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<v Speaker 3>As a matter of fact, even when I was with

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<v Speaker 3>the Globe, I played with the Phoenix softball team, so

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<v Speaker 3>you know there was a lot, a lot of a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of camaraderie out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Jim Sellivan's written a new book, and I love

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of stuff. The backstage and beyond complete forty

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<v Speaker 2>five years of rock chats and rants, and it is

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<v Speaker 2>out now everywhere where you get books. You've put together

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<v Speaker 2>all of these conversations you've had with many of these

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<v Speaker 2>artists over the years, and I imagine it must have

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<v Speaker 2>been difficult to narrow down.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was. I mean there's I think there's seventy

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<v Speaker 3>two chapters all told in this ebook that just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>out an expanded version of the first two volumes, and

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<v Speaker 3>you know there are outtakes. I mean there's a Pink

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<v Speaker 3>Floyd chapter that I didn't write yet, could have. There's

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<v Speaker 3>an Ram chapter haven't done yet. And when I was

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<v Speaker 3>thinking about adding things, it was sort of like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>who haven't I done that? I want to get in here. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>Ringo was one of them the time I spent with him,

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<v Speaker 3>Kiss Stevie Wonder, the Rascals, Judy Collins, Enya Rayuchi, Sakamoto suicide,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, there were you know. So it was like

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<v Speaker 3>once I got done the the first two, the hardcover books,

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<v Speaker 3>it was like and we were doing the e book,

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<v Speaker 3>my publisher, editor Ira Robins, said, you know, I do

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<v Speaker 3>you want to add anything? And I was like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>we can do that, can't we? And I said, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>let me do it. So yeah, I spent a month

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<v Speaker 3>or so and you know, made those choices and there

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<v Speaker 3>could be more to go.

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<v Speaker 2>Any of these people when you were sitting down to

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<v Speaker 2>talk to them where they were reluctant to speak. You

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to name names, but I mean I know

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<v Speaker 2>what it's like to be on a press junket with

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<v Speaker 2>with some of these people and they're like some of

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<v Speaker 2>them are really into it and really understand the role

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<v Speaker 2>that it plays, and some of them just could care less.

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<v Speaker 3>No, none of these really were press junkets. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>these are all one on one situations. And I think

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<v Speaker 3>what happened was, I mean I did this for quite

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<v Speaker 3>some time and with a lot of these people, established

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<v Speaker 3>a connection maybe early on at a level of trust,

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<v Speaker 3>and as you can see in the book, these things

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<v Speaker 3>are more conversations than they are interviews, I guess. I

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<v Speaker 3>mean there are interviews obviously, and they've done for a purpose,

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<v Speaker 3>and they're transactional, no question about it. But we get

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<v Speaker 3>into things. I did so with Bowie, I did so

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<v Speaker 3>with Bryan Ferry, Robert Fripp, you know, where I'd throw

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<v Speaker 3>something out, they throw something back, and sometimes it would

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<v Speaker 3>go off track in terms of not just talking about

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<v Speaker 3>their music or their ways album or tour, but into

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<v Speaker 3>something very interesting that both of us would pursue. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's one of the strengths of the book

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<v Speaker 3>is that there are stories here that are not just

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<v Speaker 3>what you would read in a maybe a standard kind

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<v Speaker 3>of QA with a rock star, if you will.

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<v Speaker 2>Jim Sullivan's backstage and beyond complete forty five years of

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<v Speaker 2>rock chats and so this is complete. Was there is

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<v Speaker 2>this a more complete version than a previous version?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it just means this. There were two books that

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<v Speaker 3>came out last year, Volume one, Volume two roughly divided

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<v Speaker 3>into eras, and this was the opportunity to add to it, basically,

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<v Speaker 3>to give if you will, more value for money for

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<v Speaker 3>the e book and uh, you know, I had more material.

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<v Speaker 3>And for the reason I stopped the first time was,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I and I were talking about this and

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<v Speaker 3>he said, my god, well you've written some great stuff here,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's so big it's kind of like a doorstop.

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<v Speaker 3>So we broke it off into two books, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>at one point he said, okay, we probably got to

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<v Speaker 3>stop now because it's getting, you know, getting to be big,

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<v Speaker 3>and we did. And then it was because it's an

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<v Speaker 3>e book here with the added chapters, you know, that's

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<v Speaker 3>not a limitation how big it is. And I just said, well,

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<v Speaker 3>I've got more great stuff. I'm going to go for it.

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<v Speaker 3>I've got a Ringo star sitting here that we haven't

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<v Speaker 3>got into. And that was fun. I had done what

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<v Speaker 3>was really a fairly brief interview with Ringo, but I

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<v Speaker 3>expanded that to talk. I raised the question with Ringo

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of For many years, people considered him the

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<v Speaker 3>lucky beetle. He was only an average drummer, and Ringo's

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<v Speaker 3>and never averaged him. No, not average, and I kind

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<v Speaker 3>of asked a lot of other drummers about Ringo's talent

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<v Speaker 3>as a drummer. Chris Franz I know was in there

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<v Speaker 3>from talking heads, and they were very good about explaining

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<v Speaker 3>how good Ringo was with what he did, and that

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<v Speaker 3>to me was fascinating. I mean it's, you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>inner workings of what other musicians think about Ringo stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And you have lots of other stories. Were a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of these stories already electronically transformed. You have to go

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<v Speaker 2>back to some of your notebooks.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I went back to notes previous stories. I reworked

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of things that had shown up in certain

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<v Speaker 3>other forms, you know, in brief maybe or just not yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>just not as complete as what you'd have here. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think what I did too for these books is

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<v Speaker 3>admittedly I put myself in the stories more than I

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<v Speaker 3>would have as a journalist writing for a newspaper and magazine,

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<v Speaker 3>because there were a lot of interpersonal relationships, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think part of what I wanted to do was to

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<v Speaker 3>show how those relationships developed, how the conversations worked, and

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<v Speaker 3>how I made some of the choices I made to

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<v Speaker 3>ask or not ask things. I remember when I had

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<v Speaker 3>dinner with Tina Turner and was doing a story about

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<v Speaker 3>her life and what was ahead of her. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>I made the conscious choice not to ask about the

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<v Speaker 3>iconteena days because it had been covered so many times

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<v Speaker 3>and so well, and I didn't want to drag her

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<v Speaker 3>back into that. So that's an omission in the chapter.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's fine. You can see you can read or

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<v Speaker 3>see plenty about that. And you know, that was just

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<v Speaker 3>one of the you know, sort of writer's choices about

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<v Speaker 3>things to do or not do, and that was what

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<v Speaker 3>I did not do. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>I was about to say, a lot of these are

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<v Speaker 2>no longer with us, and there may be words that

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<v Speaker 2>they say in these conversations that nobody's heard before.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly, there there are. I think I mean this,

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's some pretty great insight into you know,

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<v Speaker 3>it was a time, you know, when artists were more

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<v Speaker 3>free about what they wanted to say. I think that's

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<v Speaker 3>tightened up considerably over the years. I think artists have

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<v Speaker 3>more handlers, they had more PRP. I was fortunate. I

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<v Speaker 3>mean I got a lot of you know, backstage access

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<v Speaker 3>and a lot of free wheeling back and forth, sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>with a glass of booze two for them for me. Uh.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know there was a casualness to it that.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, it was professional certainly, I'm writing, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>there's no question that this is not just a fan conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean I have a certain agenda. But you know

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<v Speaker 3>it was it was not scripted, and it was not

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<v Speaker 3>limited to time, and a lot of it happened sort

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<v Speaker 3>of impromptu after the gig. Do you have time, Yeah, sure,

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<v Speaker 3>come back. And you know some good things come out of.

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<v Speaker 2>That backstage and beyond. Jim Sullivan is the author and

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<v Speaker 2>the book is out now. Everywhere you get to e books,

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<v Speaker 2>it's electronic books and uh, lots and lots of writing.

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<v Speaker 2>You must have had one hell of a warehouse to

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<v Speaker 2>keep all these notebooks.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh. The basement is full of the note the computer,

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<v Speaker 3>the computer. I mean, let's face it, a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>them were bounced over to the computer, so that made

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<v Speaker 3>life a little easier than ferreting through the basement notebooks.

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<v Speaker 3>But they were used to and uh, you know, I

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<v Speaker 3>kind of wish I'd been a little bit more orderly

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<v Speaker 3>about what I kept and where I kept them. But

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<v Speaker 3>I dug out what I needed to dig out.

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<v Speaker 2>Was there one? Was there?

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<v Speaker 3>One?

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<v Speaker 2>Was there? One? Big surprise? When you were putting all

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<v Speaker 2>this together.

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<v Speaker 4>Trying to think, I guess talking to I don't know.

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<v Speaker 4>I picked Motorhead for an example.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess no surprise exactly, but I've sort of forgotten

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<v Speaker 3>about all exchanges we've had over the years, me and Lemmy,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, they were just you know, to kind

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<v Speaker 3>of put them end to end and saying, yes, here,

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<v Speaker 3>here we were at this situation, in that situation, and

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<v Speaker 3>stringing them all together and putting you know, a complete

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<v Speaker 3>package together what Motorhead and Leming mean to the world. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>so that was kind of fun to go. Yeah, we

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<v Speaker 3>had some depth there, and you know, there may be

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<v Speaker 3>the perception among Motorhead and Lemmy that he wasn't that right,

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<v Speaker 3>and he was. He was terrific. He was sharp, he

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<v Speaker 3>was witty, he was terrific. And you know, sometimes people

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<v Speaker 3>think bands like Motorhead, heavy rock bands, whatever you want

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<v Speaker 3>to call him, you know, not the brightest lights on

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<v Speaker 3>the planet. But Lenny really was. He was a joy

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<v Speaker 3>to be with and just funnyest.

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<v Speaker 2>Health And it will be a joy and funny as

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<v Speaker 2>hell read for you, especially if you love this backstage

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like I do. Jim Sullivan's Backstage and Beyond available

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<v Speaker 2>everywhere you get your ebooks, and we thank you for

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<v Speaker 2>joining us.

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<v Speaker 3>Jim, thank you. I appreciate the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to Later with Lee Matthews, the Lee

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<v Speaker 1>Matthews Podcast, and remember to listen to The Drive Live

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<v Speaker 1>weekday afternoons from five to seven and iHeartMedia presentation