Speaker 1: Welcome to tiff Talks Tech, the podcast where we unravel
Speaker 1: the mysteries of multi family marketing tech, making it not
Speaker 1: just understandable, but dare I say, enjoyable. I'm your host, Tiffany,
Speaker 1: a season multi family marketer turn tech expert, here to
Speaker 1: guide you through your daily tech challenges with ease and
Speaker 1: a sprinkle of fun.
Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of tif Talks Tech. Today.
Speaker 1: I am excited because I am joined by Jake Zacharia,
Speaker 1: who's a VP of marketing at one app, and today
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about solving systemic problems with
Speaker 1: risk mitigation technology. So before we really dive in, Jake,
Speaker 1: can you share a little bit about your background and
Speaker 1: multifamily and how you got to where you are right now?
Speaker 3: Only Yeah, I am again. My name is Jake zach Arya,
Speaker 3: and I've been in multifamily for oh goshen years now,
Speaker 3: and I started as a leasing consultant I had and
Speaker 3: this is back in the day before you know, everyone
Speaker 3: was searching for their apartment on the internet. Everyone came
Speaker 3: with the like the book, and I got to spend
Speaker 3: a lot of time with them, so that that was
Speaker 3: like my favorite part about starting in the industry is
Speaker 3: I really got to be connected with with residents and
Speaker 3: it was also like, you know, devastating when they weren't
Speaker 3: able to move into the community with you. I advanced
Speaker 3: through the through my career in love like training and marketing.
Speaker 3: Most recently, I found myself as the VP at one
Speaker 3: app and or VP of marketing at one app and
Speaker 3: hoping to kind of just you know, tell stories at
Speaker 3: the intersection of you know, like resident outcomes, like optimal
Speaker 3: resident outcomes and like operator performance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: I want to go back to what you said before,
Speaker 1: like back in the day when they had the book.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's so funny. I was asking my boss the
Speaker 2: other day. I was like, what did you guys do?
Speaker 1: Because I've only been in the industry for ten years,
Speaker 1: I'm like, what did you guys do before email?
Speaker 2: What did you guys do before iOS is? What did
Speaker 2: you guys do?
Speaker 1: And She's like, well, there was this big book and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it was wild though, because like people
Speaker 3: would come in like you get the book that is
Speaker 3: a really fit book, and you'd get it at the
Speaker 3: grocery store like a little yeah, you know cart in
Speaker 3: front of the grocery store and then it would come in.
Speaker 3: But like all of the prices, all the floor planes,
Speaker 3: all the data really like it was all out of
Speaker 3: date by the time they got it, so you had
Speaker 3: to like go through everything. Now we have like up
Speaker 3: to the minute, I mean, like you can choose your apartment,
Speaker 3: do the entire application without even seeing anything, all online
Speaker 3: everything from when I started, and again it was only
Speaker 3: nineteen years ago, but it felt like it feels like eons. Yeah,
Speaker 3: technologically because I mean you had to spend forty five
Speaker 3: minutes to an hour with Phil Renter with a with
Speaker 3: an applicant because that was where they got all there
Speaker 3: and like how's the community, Like what floor planned? Let
Speaker 3: me take a look at them, and the whole application process,
Speaker 3: like you get to go through everything manually, all like
Speaker 3: real discussions.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, And I know things have changed so much
Speaker 1: over time and since you've been in the industry for
Speaker 1: so long, But what's the big problem we're trying to
Speaker 1: solve when it comes to housing accessibility?
Speaker 2: And over time has that been an issue?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that's one of the things that drew
Speaker 3: me to one app right, is that that's the main
Speaker 3: conversation that we're having. That's the main story that we
Speaker 3: want to tell is how that's impacting both sides of
Speaker 3: the equation. Right, So, like the big problem that we're
Speaker 3: trying to solve, you know, at least from our perspective
Speaker 3: and the way I see it right now, one of
Speaker 3: the easiest lifts is that we have capable renters that
Speaker 3: are being denied because we're using outdated criteria credit and
Speaker 3: you know, things just haven't moved. Like when I started,
Speaker 3: you would only really ever take somebody's W two pay
Speaker 3: stubs to verify their income, and now we've got you know,
Speaker 3: side gigs and you know, you've got a personal business
Speaker 3: that you're running or ten ninety nine income or gig work.
Speaker 3: You know, like all of that creates a lot of
Speaker 3: stress on both sides for the renter to verify all
Speaker 3: that stuff, but also for the management team to like
Speaker 3: understand if if it's enough, did to calculate the right
Speaker 3: way all that kind of stuff. So, I think the
Speaker 3: big problem that we're trying to kind of like help
Speaker 3: solve with housing accessibility is there's things that take a
Speaker 3: long time, like building more houses, building more apartments, building
Speaker 3: or creating laws that like kind of make support systems.
Speaker 3: Those all take like a really really long time, but
Speaker 3: what we can do in the short term is kind
Speaker 3: of take a look at how can we give approval
Speaker 3: assistance that creates more access for both, like creates access
Speaker 3: for renters to have more availability of housing and to
Speaker 3: create more access for property managers to have, you know,
Speaker 3: a wider availability of quality renters for their community.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna shamelessly plug Umbrella because you mentioned like there's
Speaker 1: so many different avenues that people are having their income
Speaker 1: come from.
Speaker 2: So that's one of the things I know.
Speaker 1: I work for a fraud solution and that's one of
Speaker 1: the things that we always look at.
Speaker 2: But I always say, like our two.
Speaker 1: Solutions kind of go hand in hand because we identify
Speaker 1: the fraudulent ones, the ones that are just trying to
Speaker 1: get by. But a lot of the time people are
Speaker 1: just kind of increasing their income to make it look
Speaker 1: like they have enough to rent there because rents are
Speaker 1: getting so high and they really can't afford it. And
Speaker 1: I know that that's kind of the point where you
Speaker 1: guys come in, right and you help support them so
Speaker 1: that they can still get into that apartment, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that I mean, that's that's one of the you know,
Speaker 3: as our as the shame most plug for one app
Speaker 3: is like we are that like least support system, right,
Speaker 3: we want we want the renter to feel like they
Speaker 3: have a support system so that they don't have to
Speaker 3: engage in fraud or fudge the numbers a little bit
Speaker 3: or you know like try you know, go through these
Speaker 3: jump through these hoops to try and fit in. Our
Speaker 3: data shows and our system shows that they can have
Speaker 3: support to be a a quality and successful renter without
Speaker 3: having to engage in them and those kinds of activities.
Speaker 3: So we just and we want to be able to
Speaker 3: do that in a way that helps the management teams
Speaker 3: not have to change their criteria because we know, we
Speaker 3: know it's been it was put there for a reason
Speaker 3: to protect themselves, but we don't you know, that's a
Speaker 3: longer conversation is going to take a lot longer. We
Speaker 3: can solve that by just being that that pipeline in
Speaker 3: the middle that connects people who we feel our quality
Speaker 3: renters with DMCs in a way that they don't have
Speaker 3: to increase their risk and the renters don't have to
Speaker 3: engage in fraud or ask for government support or ask
Speaker 3: for family to coast any of that kind of stuff,
Speaker 3: Like we can just solve both sides of the equation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely from your perspective, what are one of the
Speaker 1: are some of the most overlooked and maybe even misunderstood
Speaker 1: barriers that are keeping people from getting approved right away?
Speaker 1: And always said income can be a big one, but
Speaker 1: is there anything else?
Speaker 3: And I think income turns out to be like the
Speaker 3: underlying cause that causes a lot of problems on the
Speaker 3: other side. Right, So it's like if rents are going
Speaker 3: up and wages aren't, then that puts immense amount of
Speaker 3: pressure on the availability of free cash to do things
Speaker 3: like pay the bill. So you know, like your credit
Speaker 3: doesn't look good because you know, you didn't have enough
Speaker 3: income at one point or you don't have enough income
Speaker 3: to overcome that. But there's also other factors too that
Speaker 3: are related to that, you know, thin or no credit,
Speaker 3: Like you know, you uh came around out of college
Speaker 3: and you don't really have very many, you know, experiences
Speaker 3: where you've been able to prove that you'll pay the bill.
Speaker 3: So credit going by credit is a very difficult factor
Speaker 3: for that person. Gig income I mentioned that earlier. That's
Speaker 3: another one that's really difficult, and also just not understanding
Speaker 3: what the criteria actually is. I think that's one of
Speaker 3: the things that we found a huge challenges not understanding
Speaker 3: that criteria, how you fit in that critic because every
Speaker 3: community is different, every company is different. Right, you can
Speaker 3: be in one area and apply to fifty different apartment
Speaker 3: communities and have vastly different results in that small little neighborhood,
Speaker 3: and that right there is like application FEEB You're like
Speaker 3: just spending all this money over and over again, and
Speaker 3: the stigma that comes with that multiple denials and you
Speaker 3: don't really have any information why. So we want a
Speaker 3: world where that renter has more support to you know,
Speaker 3: for based on their real income, based on like a
Speaker 3: real picture of their credit, or to have support where
Speaker 3: they're lacking that information, but also then just to have
Speaker 3: like a predictable promise to reduce those barriers for them
Speaker 3: and the management.
Speaker 2: Side too totally.
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of the time those denials
Speaker 1: and that stigma, it's all framed is that's the renter's problem.
Speaker 1: But what effect does that have on property managers and
Speaker 1: owners in the long run?
Speaker 3: I mean, it's two sides seeing the equation. So like
Speaker 3: I think, if we're sitting in a vacuum and we're
Speaker 3: only having conversation with other property managers, the conversation evolves
Speaker 3: to be like, oh, it's a renter problem. But what
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of managers and owners don't
Speaker 3: see is each avoidable denial turns into more vacancy days.
Speaker 3: You have to spend more marketing dollars to get another
Speaker 3: person to come in the door. You already have someone
Speaker 3: come in and you deny them. Now you got to
Speaker 3: pay more money to get another person in and you
Speaker 3: have to have you have to pay more, you know,
Speaker 3: more staffing costs for them to do the other things
Speaker 3: when you already had somebody who could have been a
Speaker 3: good renter to begin with come in the door. You again,
Speaker 3: you're more occupy or vacancy days, more money you spent
Speaker 3: on marketing, and just like longer drawn out periods where
Speaker 3: you're not dealing with you're not getting the bonus of
Speaker 3: that occupancy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, kind of thinking through the broader economic trends.
Speaker 2: And that impact it.
Speaker 1: What are the things that impact this issue, like inflation,
Speaker 1: wage stagnation, rising rents, all that stuff. What really drives
Speaker 1: the issue when it comes to approval challenges.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, like I think this the standards tightened because
Speaker 3: there were a lot I mean like that you you
Speaker 3: mentioned inflation and waging stagnation and some of these broader
Speaker 3: economic trends, but there's a lot of other impacts that
Speaker 3: have happened recently that again created a lot of downward
Speaker 3: pressure on the economy, like COVID and the whole situation
Speaker 3: around that, and all of the losses that were experienced
Speaker 3: on like both sides of the equation. Again, you know
Speaker 3: that that put owners, people who owned these properties and
Speaker 3: people who manage these properties in a really tough position
Speaker 3: to how do we mitigate against a future situation where
Speaker 3: we lose some of you know, you know, lose in
Speaker 3: that situation again, So they they tightened standards and they
Speaker 3: elevated their rental criteria. But it but again it just
Speaker 3: doesn't match the real income patterns or like the reality
Speaker 3: is that the there's two sizes of this equation and
Speaker 3: the managers are trying to mitigate risk by tightening these standards,
Speaker 3: but the renters don't have a situation that enables them
Speaker 3: to dig out of the same kind of losses as
Speaker 3: easily or as quickly. You know, they're they're they're like
Speaker 3: trying to balance like how do I how do I
Speaker 3: get people too to move into my apartment community without
Speaker 3: being at risk for eviction or not paying the bill
Speaker 3: or any of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, you mentioned risk mitigation, and you can kind
Speaker 1: of sound like a cold financial concept, but it's also
Speaker 1: the thing that can keep people housed. So what does
Speaker 1: effective risk mitigation look like in practice?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think risk mitigation can sound pretty cold,
Speaker 3: but we're looking for a dignified way to allow renters
Speaker 3: to do the thing that is like absolutely required. They're
Speaker 3: getting sheltered, nobody's going out and buying, Like we're not
Speaker 3: denying people from buying porsches, we're denying people from housing.
Speaker 3: And that's like a human requirement, like it's a it's
Speaker 3: a thing we need to survive. So what we're trying
Speaker 3: to do is try to find the balance between the
Speaker 3: very real need to mitigate risk on the manager side
Speaker 3: in multi family with providing a dignified way to give
Speaker 3: people approvals and not just consistently denied denials. Should be
Speaker 3: like our lap choice for risk mitigation. There should be
Speaker 3: a whole slew of that, but again, you know, that
Speaker 3: just opens the door to more more challenges. The government
Speaker 3: has stepped in and created deposit caps and you know,
Speaker 3: a fees that they can't charge and all this kind
Speaker 3: of stuff, and again that puts downward pressure on the
Speaker 3: manager side. So it really is a tough conversation of
Speaker 3: how you can get more approvals that benefit both sides
Speaker 3: of the equation in a dignified way that that also
Speaker 3: again doesn't increase risk for the PFC.
Speaker 2: Right absolutely.
Speaker 1: All that kept coming to mind when you and I
Speaker 1: were talking about this behind the scenes is like, I
Speaker 1: know somebody who was a victim of domestic abuse and
Speaker 1: their partner had gone and ruined like they were not
Speaker 1: paying the rent when they thought they were paying the rent,
Speaker 1: So her credit was shot and she needs a place
Speaker 1: for her and her kids to live.
Speaker 2: And if she had a solution like this, she wouldn't be.
Speaker 1: Getting denial after denial for her and her family because
Speaker 1: she's out of that situation. She personally is not a risk,
Speaker 1: but had no idea that she was being taken advantage of.
Speaker 2: So it's like stories like this are the reason.
Speaker 1: Why solutions like yours are really amazing and really come
Speaker 1: in and bridge that gap for the people who need
Speaker 1: it the most.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know that it's a really sad story
Speaker 3: and shows you something that's almost completely out of someone's control.
Speaker 3: You know, right, Nobody wants to get into a car accident,
Speaker 3: nobody wants to be a victim of domestic abuse, nobody
Speaker 3: wants to lose their job. These situations that are outside
Speaker 3: of our control happen. We we wanted to be a
Speaker 3: kind of like a fintech prop tech kind of solution
Speaker 3: that again doesn't just support the renter because they do
Speaker 3: need that support, but we want to we want to
Speaker 3: do it a way that balances the needs of the
Speaker 3: management side too. And I think that's where, you know,
Speaker 3: the broadening description of kind of like what technology can
Speaker 3: do is to come in and disrupt in a positive way,
Speaker 3: in a way that that balances the equation, but also
Speaker 3: is one of those very rare kind of like win
Speaker 3: win win situations, Like you know, renter wins, the property
Speaker 3: manager wins, and we win because we get to be
Speaker 3: a in a business that is expanding access to housing.
Speaker 3: So very very few times in my life have I
Speaker 3: ever seen an actual win win win situation. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: we get to work for that. But again, I think
Speaker 3: that that all goes back to making sure that you're
Speaker 3: finding a solution or a workflow that allows you to,
Speaker 3: you know, solve your problems with dignity in a dignified
Speaker 3: way for all parts of the equation, and not just
Speaker 3: to point the finger at someone and say it's your
Speaker 3: problem or you're the fault, but really just say, like,
Speaker 3: this is a problem, we need to solve it because
Speaker 3: it's causing challenges on both sides. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And like you said, tech is it is one
Speaker 1: of the pieces of the puzzle. Are there other pieces
Speaker 1: that really have to be in place in order for
Speaker 1: actual progress to happen.
Speaker 3: Well, I think again we need to have a larger
Speaker 3: conversation about like what does that housing workflow look like,
Speaker 3: how are we getting people access into housing that exists,
Speaker 3: how are we filling up those units. For the management side,
Speaker 3: we need to have those top level kind of like
Speaker 3: government changes for zoning and policies and laws that again
Speaker 3: are are factoring in both sides the equation. And until
Speaker 3: we can get there, we're coming up with a solution
Speaker 3: that supports the least, that supports both sides from that way.
Speaker 3: But I think the first part for real progress to
Speaker 3: happen needs to be that we need to start having
Speaker 3: this conversation and including the renters or advocates for renters
Speaker 3: in that equation, because we can't do that in a
Speaker 3: vacuum in the multi family industry. We can't go to
Speaker 3: conferences and just talk about risk mitigation. We have to
Speaker 3: go to those conversas and talk about risk mitigation with
Speaker 3: renters and understand how, because it's a symbiotic relationship, we're
Speaker 3: here together. We don't exist in the multi family industry
Speaker 3: without renters, and they don't have housing without us to
Speaker 3: provide it for them. So how do we change that
Speaker 3: conversation to make real progress and understand what the real
Speaker 3: levers are that we can pull.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and since we are talking about you know, standing
Speaker 1: behind the renter really advocating for them, we also know
Speaker 1: that the other side of it is the operator, and
Speaker 1: we don't want to put them in a worse position.
Speaker 1: Can you dive into a little bit how your solution
Speaker 1: really helps prevent that and it doesn't put them in
Speaker 1: a worse spot.
Speaker 2: I know you said it's a win win win. How
Speaker 2: is it a win win win.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the renter you know, obviously gets the support
Speaker 3: and we can get to help them get like approval assistance. Right,
Speaker 3: So we can do that, but it doesn't mean none
Speaker 3: of that means anything if the operators or the managers
Speaker 3: and the owners feel like they're getting the short end
Speaker 3: of the stick. So we wanted to find a way
Speaker 3: that helped mitigate their concerns, their pains, and their their
Speaker 3: risk without you know, having you know, just like a
Speaker 3: bad taste in their mouth from this this solution. So
Speaker 3: we worked so that managers can keep the criteria and
Speaker 3: even add like portfolio level support so they can take
Speaker 3: this and use it at one property that they're struggling with,
Speaker 3: they can use it across their entire organization. But you
Speaker 3: need to find a way that allows the managers to
Speaker 3: not have to change their entire business model just to
Speaker 3: accept right and to give them predictable at positive results. Right.
Speaker 3: So that's another thing that we're pretty proud of is
Speaker 3: like high high percent, like high ninety or low nineties
Speaker 3: percent of successful renters that make it to the end
Speaker 3: release without any problems at all. It's the proof. The
Speaker 3: proof is in the pudding that like we gave you
Speaker 3: a renter, and we showed you and they were a
Speaker 3: successful renter, like low nineties percent of success without having
Speaker 3: any any problems or claims or defaults. And then when
Speaker 3: there are defaults to like to come in and have
Speaker 3: quick reimbursements for any of those losses. So if they
Speaker 3: lost out on rent, they lost out on damages or
Speaker 3: legal fees. For the very small number of people that
Speaker 3: do have those defaults, then we come in and we
Speaker 3: fulfill that promise. We make them whole, and we do
Speaker 3: it quickly, so we don't play the insurance game, because
Speaker 3: we're not insurance, but we don't play the insurance game
Speaker 3: where we delay and defend and deny or you know,
Speaker 3: any of that kind of stuff. So you'll get it.
Speaker 3: You'll get reimbursements within ten business days or for those claims.
Speaker 3: And we also do it in a way where it
Speaker 3: literally costs the property nothing, so they don't have to
Speaker 3: pay for the portfolio insurance policy, they don't have to
Speaker 3: pay out these fees, they don't whatever. They just refer
Speaker 3: people to us, We run them through our criteria. If
Speaker 3: they are a good fit for us, the renter pays
Speaker 3: the fee and and then we support their lease, you know,
Speaker 3: up to twenty four months. So that's kind of again
Speaker 3: like making it so the property manager doesn't have to
Speaker 3: doesn't have to change anything about the way they do business,
Speaker 3: but also doesn't have to worry about some future you know,
Speaker 3: other shoe to drop because they didn't read the fine print. Right,
Speaker 3: We support the lease, we give them good renters, and
Speaker 3: then if something happens where there's a default, we come
Speaker 3: in and we fulfill our promise to support that lease.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: I want to switch you gethers just a little bit
Speaker 1: and talk about risk mitigation holding the hand of fraud prevention.
Speaker 1: I know you and I kind of chatted about this
Speaker 1: and not to just sit here and shameless sleep up.
Speaker 1: But housing accessibility can it can go hand in hand
Speaker 1: with broad prevention, even though a lot of the time
Speaker 1: it can be seen as opposite priorities.
Speaker 2: How do you see them working together?
Speaker 3: So I think that risk mitigation and fraud prevention are
Speaker 3: literally complementary topics. Yeah, because the only reason that people
Speaker 3: engage in fraud is because they don't have a solution
Speaker 3: available to them to do the right thing right right.
Speaker 3: And there's I'm sure there's probably people out there who
Speaker 3: believe you know they're no, you know they're engaging in
Speaker 3: fraud because they're bad people. And I'm sure there are
Speaker 3: bad actors out there, a small, small percession person, but
Speaker 3: they are more than likely the exception to the rule.
Speaker 3: Most people want to do the right thing. They want
Speaker 3: to apply, they want to get an approval. They want
Speaker 3: the leasing consultants to tell them congratulations, you approved. That
Speaker 3: was not my favorite part of the job when I
Speaker 3: was a leasing consultant because I just spent like forty
Speaker 3: five minutes an hour with someone and then when they
Speaker 3: got approved, I was like, congratulations, you just got approve.
Speaker 3: Welcome home. Like that's the best result. That's exactly what
Speaker 3: everyone wants. So if they if they're not, if they
Speaker 3: know they're not going to get that, then they're going
Speaker 3: to do everything they can to get that feeling, to
Speaker 3: get that status, to get that approval. So I think
Speaker 3: what we can do is, you know, risk mitigation solutions
Speaker 3: tech solutions and fraud prevention tech solutions, both in the
Speaker 3: property tech space for multifamily can work together. You can
Speaker 3: use them in tandem, and I think I think managers
Speaker 3: should use them in tandem, right like you should mitigate
Speaker 3: risk and prevent fraud. But that can't be the only
Speaker 3: solution is to deny and prevent people from getting in.
Speaker 3: You should give them a solution that allows to get
Speaker 3: in on their own merits or in a qualified way.
Speaker 3: You can write with the risk mitigations, that is it.
Speaker 3: We can approve more qualified renters and give them better signals,
Speaker 3: but we don't have to. That's not excluding fraud prevention. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of adding that third option.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking about the workflow, and like the workflow
Speaker 1: that we typically recommend is that you have somebody come
Speaker 1: in the office, you verify their ID and make sure
Speaker 1: that that ID is legitimate, And so I think about that,
Speaker 1: like before they even tour, you checking that to make
Speaker 1: sure they're real, and then the income fraud will come
Speaker 1: in later, but you know that that's a real person
Speaker 1: and you've already jumped over that hoop. So then by
Speaker 1: the time you've toured and you're going through the income
Speaker 1: piece and you might be seeing things pop up with that,
Speaker 1: you've already taken out one piece of that and you're
Speaker 1: diving into the next. So I do think they really
Speaker 1: go hand in hand because as you go through the
Speaker 1: steps of the fraud prevention. You are then going through
Speaker 1: the steps of getting that person home to where they
Speaker 1: need to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So I want to talk about, you know, changing
Speaker 1: industry mindsets. There's a stigma around risky renters. How can
Speaker 1: we start to rethink what risky actually means?
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I love this question because again I think
Speaker 3: it's one of those side effects, those like negative side effects,
Speaker 3: having the conversation in a vacuum. We call them risky
Speaker 3: renters now, and that's that's not what it is. Risk
Speaker 3: is a concept, and we don't avoid risk by denying.
Speaker 3: We manage risk by finding solutions that help us achieve
Speaker 3: our financial goals without exposing us to the negative side
Speaker 3: of that possibility. So we want to reduce risk, we
Speaker 3: want to manage risk, but we can't avoid risk. So
Speaker 3: I think rethinking that starts, you know, a conversation has
Speaker 3: to start again about like reframing what that looks like.
Speaker 3: It's not like people aren't trying to engage in fraud.
Speaker 3: They're trying to get into an apartment. So if you
Speaker 3: give them a way to engage or to engage positively,
Speaker 3: to get in that into that approval, then that's managing
Speaker 3: the risk. Your fraud prevention does the same thing. You're
Speaker 3: managing risk by reducing the number of opportunities that somebody
Speaker 3: has to give you fake documents or appear as someone
Speaker 3: else or whatever it is. But I think the other
Speaker 3: thing too is to like make sure that whatever solutions
Speaker 3: that you're looking at are also helping you achieve your goals.
Speaker 3: So you can't think of it like insurance because I've
Speaker 3: got somebody who defaults on their lease, and yeah, you've
Speaker 3: got the insurance that backfills, but then you've got six
Speaker 3: months to go before you even get that payout, or
Speaker 3: they like, oh no, you forgot to put a period
Speaker 3: at the end of this sentence in my document, so
Speaker 3: the whole plan is denied. You know, type of thing
Speaker 3: like you need to work with high quality, high value
Speaker 3: partners who are going to help you manage your business,
Speaker 3: but are doing it in a dignified way, because again
Speaker 3: that shows that you, as the manager, are trying to
Speaker 3: have this good relationship by managing that risk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Are there any assumptions that you hear often about why
Speaker 1: people are getting denied?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you think that any of those assumptions you hear
Speaker 1: may not actually be the full story for sure.
Speaker 3: I mean I've heard it my whole career. Is that
Speaker 3: if we lower the criteria, if we loosen the criteria,
Speaker 3: it's going to cause more bad debt, it's going to
Speaker 3: cause more defaults, it's going to cause more evictions. We're
Speaker 3: going to letting in, you know, bad renters in. And
Speaker 3: the data just doesn't support that. You can go through
Speaker 3: and see numerous studies that have been done for decades
Speaker 3: now that show that like a majority of Americans are
Speaker 3: one financial disaster away from being in a situational homeless situation. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so they like a car accident, you have a medical episode,
Speaker 3: you lose your job, like all those things are completely
Speaker 3: out of their control. And that's not a bad renter.
Speaker 3: That's a renter that something happened. So loosing the criteria
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you're going to have more bad debt. It's
Speaker 3: not going to mean that you have more evictions because again,
Speaker 3: we're talking about introducing a solution that like that mitigates
Speaker 3: again because we're talking about change management too. We're not
Speaker 3: just talking about how to solve this problem, we're also
Speaker 3: talking about how to change mindsets that I've heard for
Speaker 3: for nineteen years now, is that if you loose in
Speaker 3: the criteria or you lower the criteria, that you're going
Speaker 3: to have more bad debt, you're going to carry more
Speaker 3: bad debt, you're gonna have more fictions or whatever. But
Speaker 3: this is a way, at least one app is a
Speaker 3: way that you can keep those standards. You could add
Speaker 3: these support and that helps change the conversation to bring
Speaker 3: managers and multi family industry back to the table to
Speaker 3: start having a real conversation about why the system is
Speaker 3: a little outdated. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, if we don't address these issues in the next
Speaker 1: ten years, what does it look like if we don't
Speaker 1: try to get rid of the systemic approval barriers that
Speaker 1: exist today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you're going to have if we don't
Speaker 3: try to remove some of these systemic barrier approval barriers.
Speaker 3: What we're looking at is a world where fewer people
Speaker 3: are in apartments having to pay a higher rent amount
Speaker 3: to meet than the needs and the goals of the
Speaker 3: owners of those property owners. So rent is going up,
Speaker 3: occupancy is going down, which again every renter then that
Speaker 3: moves out or has a financial issue is going to
Speaker 3: cause even larger swings and occupancy and vacancy laws to
Speaker 3: be lots more marketing spend to get people because they're
Speaker 3: gonna be a lot pickier. They're paying more or rent
Speaker 3: for this apartment, and they're going to be pickier, you know,
Speaker 3: So you're gonna have to use at spend a lot
Speaker 3: more money to convince them. And I think the longer
Speaker 3: tail of that is it creates these like larger equity
Speaker 3: gaps that it keeps more people in unstable housing situations,
Speaker 3: so more people renting from somebody who rents from somebody who.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's another thing you're even thinking about, is like, yeah,
Speaker 3: like the second level of fraud. I mean, you've got
Speaker 3: the one level. The first level of fraud that most
Speaker 3: managers think about is like someone's defrauding me to try
Speaker 3: and get in the apartment. But then you're gonna have this,
Speaker 3: You're going to create a situation where someone can't get
Speaker 3: in there, but somebody who can get in there will
Speaker 3: get in there, and then they'll turn around and release
Speaker 3: that apartment to someone else A and.
Speaker 1: B without approval or like even thinking about so getting
Speaker 1: roommates without having them on the lease. Like people are
Speaker 1: going to try to cram into apartments. If they can't
Speaker 1: afford it, then they're going to try to, you know,
Speaker 1: do what they can.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean you think if we think that managers
Speaker 3: have a tough time trying to find someone's chihuahua that
Speaker 3: they hide in the closet every time they have a
Speaker 3: maintenance agreement, I mean they're going to be literally hiding
Speaker 3: three or four people in each bedroom where they're like
Speaker 3: stacked up with bump beds because that's how it what
Speaker 3: it costs to you know, to rent the unit or
Speaker 3: or whatever. And again those are those are long tail
Speaker 3: extrapolations of like what role will be. But it's absolutely
Speaker 3: a very real future on the horizon. If we don't
Speaker 3: have these conversations, if we don't start solving these problems.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, for people listening, who we're going to industry,
Speaker 1: what's one stuff they could do today to help.
Speaker 2: Make a difference and make things a little more accessible.
Speaker 3: I think it would be honestly to start pushing to
Speaker 3: have those conversations internally just and then and all so externally,
Speaker 3: So we need to have the conversations in our management teams.
Speaker 3: So we need to come to like a very real,
Speaker 3: like idea. We cannot we cannot paint a picture where
Speaker 3: the renter is the bad person. We have to paint
Speaker 3: a picture where we are in a symbiotic relationship and
Speaker 3: we need the renter. We need the renter to be supported.
Speaker 3: And then we need to have external conversations in our
Speaker 3: trade shows and conferences, and we also need to have
Speaker 3: more legislative conversations where we are supporting the renter, where
Speaker 3: we are creating you know, governmental change and legislative change
Speaker 3: that that that allows the renter and the property owner
Speaker 3: and manager to come to the table with with equal
Speaker 3: standing and equal footing. If we're if we don't see
Speaker 3: this this relationship is as equal in symbiotic, we fall
Speaker 3: into this again. This like little echo chamber where we're
Speaker 3: painting some the picture of someone else is the bad guy,
Speaker 3: and that's the literal person we need for our business
Speaker 3: to say afloat, that's just it's wild. So I think
Speaker 3: the biggest impact is just to have those conversations internally, eternally,
Speaker 3: and then again in a legislative capacity so that we
Speaker 3: could try to solve this problem together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I love it.
Speaker 1: Well, before we close out, I do have a bonus
Speaker 1: question for you, and this is something I ask every
Speaker 1: single one of my podcast guests. It does not have
Speaker 1: to be related to this topic, but do you have
Speaker 1: a tech tool that you love in your everyday life
Speaker 1: they use all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Actually it is related to work, and it is
Speaker 3: related to visit. I was literally just having a conversation
Speaker 3: with one of my favorite people in our team advocating
Speaker 3: for it, and it is Fellow. It's a meeting AI
Speaker 3: note taking software solution. So I literally use it like
Speaker 3: every workday. It connects with your Google calendar, so like
Speaker 3: everytime you have a meeting, it'll connect. It allows you
Speaker 3: to like get the agenda. You can like type the
Speaker 3: whole agenda in and then it's got an AI note
Speaker 3: taker that will help like pick out the action items
Speaker 3: that maybe you've forgotten your notes to the end, so
Speaker 3: like you never forget the thing that you like agreed
Speaker 3: to do or somebody told you needed to happen, Like
Speaker 3: you always get that like follow email that says hey,
Speaker 3: remember to do this thing. So it's saved my life
Speaker 3: so many times. Love it. It's one of my favorite
Speaker 3: things I advocated to.
Speaker 2: I love it. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining Where can people
Speaker 1: go to learn more about what you're doing and connect
Speaker 1: with you directly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if anybody wants to connect with me directly,
Speaker 3: you can go to pretty much any of the platforms.
Speaker 3: I'm most most often on LinkedIn and you can just
Speaker 3: search my like user name or whatever it's j Z
Speaker 3: Jake z or you can search my name Jake zach Arya.
Speaker 3: And I'm also helping run our company page for one app.
Speaker 3: You can go and follow us on LinkedIn and kind
Speaker 3: of learn a little bit more about our solution and
Speaker 3: how we're helping to create a barrier free housing future.
Speaker 2: Love it, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it, and hope everybody got something from this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you for the time, Thanks.
Speaker 4: For joining Tift Tech. Tune in next time for more
Speaker 4: candid conversations, actionable advice, and a whole lot of tech talk.
Speaker 4: In this fast paced world of multifamily marketing, understanding tech
Speaker 4: should not be a challenge. It should be a conversation