WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.679 --> 00:00:05.679 Welcome to tiff Talks Tech, the podcast where we unravel 2 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:09.279 the mysteries of multi family marketing tech, making it not 3 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:14.519 just understandable, but dare I say, enjoyable. I'm your host, Tiffany, 4 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.399 a season multi family marketer turn tech expert, here to 5 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.480 guide you through your daily tech challenges with ease and 6 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:22.480 a sprinkle of fun. 7 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:31.320 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of tif Talks Tech. Today. 8 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:34.359 I am excited because I am joined by Jake Zacharia, 9 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:37.000 who's a VP of marketing at one app, and today 10 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:40.159 we're going to be talking about solving systemic problems with 11 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:44.880 risk mitigation technology. So before we really dive in, Jake, 12 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:47.560 can you share a little bit about your background and 13 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.119 multifamily and how you got to where you are right now? 14 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:53.840 Only Yeah, I am again. My name is Jake zach Arya, 15 00:00:54.079 --> 00:01:00.880 and I've been in multifamily for oh goshen years now, 16 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:05.799 and I started as a leasing consultant I had and 17 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:08.840 this is back in the day before you know, everyone 18 00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:12.079 was searching for their apartment on the internet. Everyone came 19 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:15.079 with the like the book, and I got to spend 20 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:16.799 a lot of time with them, so that that was 21 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:18.760 like my favorite part about starting in the industry is 22 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:22.560 I really got to be connected with with residents and 23 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:26.079 it was also like, you know, devastating when they weren't 24 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.359 able to move into the community with you. I advanced 25 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:34.719 through the through my career in love like training and marketing. 26 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:39.719 Most recently, I found myself as the VP at one 27 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:42.319 app and or VP of marketing at one app and 28 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:46.760 hoping to kind of just you know, tell stories at 29 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:50.640 the intersection of you know, like resident outcomes, like optimal 30 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.519 resident outcomes and like operator performance. 31 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:54.959 Yeah, that's awesome. 32 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:57.159 I want to go back to what you said before, 33 00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:59.439 like back in the day when they had the book. 34 00:01:59.599 --> 00:01:59.760 You know. 35 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.000 It's it's so funny. I was asking my boss the 36 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:03.480 other day. I was like, what did you guys do? 37 00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:05.920 Because I've only been in the industry for ten years, 38 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:07.599 I'm like, what did you guys do before email? 39 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:09.520 What did you guys do before iOS is? What did 40 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:10.039 you guys do? 41 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:12.199 And She's like, well, there was this big book and 42 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:13.680 I'm like, oh wow, that's crazy. 43 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:16.520 Yeah. I mean it was wild though, because like people 44 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:18.520 would come in like you get the book that is 45 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.080 a really fit book, and you'd get it at the 46 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:22.479 grocery store like a little yeah, you know cart in 47 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:24.159 front of the grocery store and then it would come in. 48 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:26.919 But like all of the prices, all the floor planes, 49 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.280 all the data really like it was all out of 50 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:31.680 date by the time they got it, so you had 51 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:35.080 to like go through everything. Now we have like up 52 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:37.879 to the minute, I mean, like you can choose your apartment, 53 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:41.159 do the entire application without even seeing anything, all online 54 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:43.919 everything from when I started, and again it was only 55 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:47.840 nineteen years ago, but it felt like it feels like eons. Yeah, 56 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:51.840 technologically because I mean you had to spend forty five 57 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:56.800 minutes to an hour with Phil Renter with a with 58 00:02:56.840 --> 00:02:59.840 an applicant because that was where they got all there 59 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:02.919 and like how's the community, Like what floor planned? Let 60 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.240 me take a look at them, and the whole application process, 61 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:07.800 like you get to go through everything manually, all like 62 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:08.919 real discussions. 63 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:12.159 Yes, absolutely, And I know things have changed so much 64 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.840 over time and since you've been in the industry for 65 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:18.759 so long, But what's the big problem we're trying to 66 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:20.960 solve when it comes to housing accessibility? 67 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:23.000 And over time has that been an issue? 68 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:25.800 Yeah? I think that's one of the things that drew 69 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:30.000 me to one app right, is that that's the main 70 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.960 conversation that we're having. That's the main story that we 71 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:36.520 want to tell is how that's impacting both sides of 72 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.360 the equation. Right, So, like the big problem that we're 73 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:42.759 trying to solve, you know, at least from our perspective 74 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:44.719 and the way I see it right now, one of 75 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:48.919 the easiest lifts is that we have capable renters that 76 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:54.319 are being denied because we're using outdated criteria credit and 77 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.199 you know, things just haven't moved. Like when I started, 78 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:02.199 you would only really ever take somebody's W two pay 79 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:05.800 stubs to verify their income, and now we've got you know, 80 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:09.800 side gigs and you know, you've got a personal business 81 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.400 that you're running or ten ninety nine income or gig work. 82 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:17.000 You know, like all of that creates a lot of 83 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:20.079 stress on both sides for the renter to verify all 84 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:24.879 that stuff, but also for the management team to like 85 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.480 understand if if it's enough, did to calculate the right 86 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.000 way all that kind of stuff. So, I think the 87 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:35.360 big problem that we're trying to kind of like help 88 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:39.680 solve with housing accessibility is there's things that take a 89 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:43.160 long time, like building more houses, building more apartments, building 90 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:48.040 or creating laws that like kind of make support systems. 91 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:50.639 Those all take like a really really long time, but 92 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:52.680 what we can do in the short term is kind 93 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.079 of take a look at how can we give approval 94 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:58.639 assistance that creates more access for both, like creates access 95 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:02.279 for renters to have more availability of housing and to 96 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.839 create more access for property managers to have, you know, 97 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:09.480 a wider availability of quality renters for their community. 98 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:10.680 Yeah, it's so true. 99 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:13.959 I'm gonna shamelessly plug Umbrella because you mentioned like there's 100 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.959 so many different avenues that people are having their income 101 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:18.399 come from. 102 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:19.639 So that's one of the things I know. 103 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:21.720 I work for a fraud solution and that's one of 104 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:23.000 the things that we always look at. 105 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:25.279 But I always say, like our two. 106 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:28.720 Solutions kind of go hand in hand because we identify 107 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.079 the fraudulent ones, the ones that are just trying to 108 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:33.759 get by. But a lot of the time people are 109 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:37.560 just kind of increasing their income to make it look 110 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:40.040 like they have enough to rent there because rents are 111 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:43.360 getting so high and they really can't afford it. And 112 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:45.879 I know that that's kind of the point where you 113 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.079 guys come in, right and you help support them so 114 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:51.399 that they can still get into that apartment, right. 115 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.000 Yeah, that I mean, that's that's one of the you know, 116 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:56.000 as our as the shame most plug for one app 117 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:58.800 is like we are that like least support system, right, 118 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:02.399 we want we want the renter to feel like they 119 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:05.959 have a support system so that they don't have to 120 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:09.879 engage in fraud or fudge the numbers a little bit 121 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:12.680 or you know like try you know, go through these 122 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:15.279 jump through these hoops to try and fit in. Our 123 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:17.959 data shows and our system shows that they can have 124 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:22.120 support to be a a quality and successful renter without 125 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:24.639 having to engage in them and those kinds of activities. 126 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:26.560 So we just and we want to be able to 127 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:28.759 do that in a way that helps the management teams 128 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:33.279 not have to change their criteria because we know, we 129 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:35.399 know it's been it was put there for a reason 130 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:38.519 to protect themselves, but we don't you know, that's a 131 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:40.480 longer conversation is going to take a lot longer. We 132 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:43.480 can solve that by just being that that pipeline in 133 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:47.560 the middle that connects people who we feel our quality 134 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:51.480 renters with DMCs in a way that they don't have 135 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:55.519 to increase their risk and the renters don't have to 136 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:59.040 engage in fraud or ask for government support or ask 137 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:01.160 for family to coast any of that kind of stuff, 138 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.160 Like we can just solve both sides of the equation. 139 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:08.160 Yeah, absolutely from your perspective, what are one of the 140 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.600 are some of the most overlooked and maybe even misunderstood 141 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.000 barriers that are keeping people from getting approved right away? 142 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:17.079 And always said income can be a big one, but 143 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:18.000 is there anything else? 144 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.839 And I think income turns out to be like the 145 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:24.279 underlying cause that causes a lot of problems on the 146 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:26.480 other side. Right, So it's like if rents are going 147 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:30.279 up and wages aren't, then that puts immense amount of 148 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.279 pressure on the availability of free cash to do things 149 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.639 like pay the bill. So you know, like your credit 150 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:40.120 doesn't look good because you know, you didn't have enough 151 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:42.519 income at one point or you don't have enough income 152 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.160 to overcome that. But there's also other factors too that 153 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:49.199 are related to that, you know, thin or no credit, 154 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:54.160 Like you know, you uh came around out of college 155 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:56.680 and you don't really have very many, you know, experiences 156 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:58.839 where you've been able to prove that you'll pay the bill. 157 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:02.600 So credit going by credit is a very difficult factor 158 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.720 for that person. Gig income I mentioned that earlier. That's 159 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.759 another one that's really difficult, and also just not understanding 160 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:12.480 what the criteria actually is. I think that's one of 161 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:17.519 the things that we found a huge challenges not understanding 162 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.120 that criteria, how you fit in that critic because every 163 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:22.759 community is different, every company is different. Right, you can 164 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:25.959 be in one area and apply to fifty different apartment 165 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:30.240 communities and have vastly different results in that small little neighborhood, 166 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.200 and that right there is like application FEEB You're like 167 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:36.279 just spending all this money over and over again, and 168 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:39.320 the stigma that comes with that multiple denials and you 169 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:43.159 don't really have any information why. So we want a 170 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:48.240 world where that renter has more support to you know, 171 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:50.960 for based on their real income, based on like a 172 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:53.879 real picture of their credit, or to have support where 173 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:56.879 they're lacking that information, but also then just to have 174 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:01.320 like a predictable promise to reduce those barriers for them 175 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:02.720 and the management. 176 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:03.399 Side too totally. 177 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.480 And I know a lot of the time those denials 178 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.799 and that stigma, it's all framed is that's the renter's problem. 179 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:14.440 But what effect does that have on property managers and 180 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.000 owners in the long run? 181 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:20.120 I mean, it's two sides seeing the equation. So like 182 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.440 I think, if we're sitting in a vacuum and we're 183 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.600 only having conversation with other property managers, the conversation evolves 184 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:28.840 to be like, oh, it's a renter problem. But what 185 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:32.519 a lot of a lot of managers and owners don't 186 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:38.320 see is each avoidable denial turns into more vacancy days. 187 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:41.639 You have to spend more marketing dollars to get another 188 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:43.720 person to come in the door. You already have someone 189 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:45.799 come in and you deny them. Now you got to 190 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:48.360 pay more money to get another person in and you 191 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:50.480 have to have you have to pay more, you know, 192 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.000 more staffing costs for them to do the other things 193 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.279 when you already had somebody who could have been a 194 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:59.879 good renter to begin with come in the door. You again, 195 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.080 you're more occupy or vacancy days, more money you spent 196 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:08.240 on marketing, and just like longer drawn out periods where 197 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:11.320 you're not dealing with you're not getting the bonus of 198 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:12.200 that occupancy. 199 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:12.879 Yeah. 200 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:17.080 Absolutely, kind of thinking through the broader economic trends. 201 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:18.799 And that impact it. 202 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:23.000 What are the things that impact this issue, like inflation, 203 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:28.039 wage stagnation, rising rents, all that stuff. What really drives 204 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:30.600 the issue when it comes to approval challenges. 205 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:34.840 Yeah, well, like I think this the standards tightened because 206 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:38.200 there were a lot I mean like that you you 207 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:42.679 mentioned inflation and waging stagnation and some of these broader 208 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:45.600 economic trends, but there's a lot of other impacts that 209 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:49.039 have happened recently that again created a lot of downward 210 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:54.320 pressure on the economy, like COVID and the whole situation 211 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:56.840 around that, and all of the losses that were experienced 212 00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:59.279 on like both sides of the equation. Again, you know 213 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.919 that that put owners, people who owned these properties and 214 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:06.000 people who manage these properties in a really tough position 215 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:10.120 to how do we mitigate against a future situation where 216 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.799 we lose some of you know, you know, lose in 217 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:17.279 that situation again, So they they tightened standards and they 218 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:20.799 elevated their rental criteria. But it but again it just 219 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.960 doesn't match the real income patterns or like the reality 220 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:28.720 is that the there's two sizes of this equation and 221 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:33.480 the managers are trying to mitigate risk by tightening these standards, 222 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:39.159 but the renters don't have a situation that enables them 223 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.519 to dig out of the same kind of losses as 224 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:46.480 easily or as quickly. You know, they're they're they're like 225 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:48.200 trying to balance like how do I how do I 226 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.240 get people too to move into my apartment community without 227 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.200 being at risk for eviction or not paying the bill 228 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:57.440 or any of that kind of stuff. 229 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:01.679 Yeah, Yeah, you mentioned risk mitigation, and you can kind 230 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:06.440 of sound like a cold financial concept, but it's also 231 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:08.840 the thing that can keep people housed. So what does 232 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:12.480 effective risk mitigation look like in practice? 233 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.879 Yeah, I think I think risk mitigation can sound pretty cold, 234 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:24.200 but we're looking for a dignified way to allow renters 235 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.840 to do the thing that is like absolutely required. They're 236 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:30.159 getting sheltered, nobody's going out and buying, Like we're not 237 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:35.159 denying people from buying porsches, we're denying people from housing. 238 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:39.720 And that's like a human requirement, like it's a it's 239 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.559 a thing we need to survive. So what we're trying 240 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.480 to do is try to find the balance between the 241 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:51.480 very real need to mitigate risk on the manager side 242 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:57.600 in multi family with providing a dignified way to give 243 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:04.360 people approvals and not just consistently denied denials. Should be 244 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:07.879 like our lap choice for risk mitigation. There should be 245 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:10.639 a whole slew of that, but again, you know, that 246 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:13.720 just opens the door to more more challenges. The government 247 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:18.639 has stepped in and created deposit caps and you know, 248 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.200 a fees that they can't charge and all this kind 249 00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:23.480 of stuff, and again that puts downward pressure on the 250 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.879 manager side. So it really is a tough conversation of 251 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.279 how you can get more approvals that benefit both sides 252 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.759 of the equation in a dignified way that that also 253 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.240 again doesn't increase risk for the PFC. 254 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:38.279 Right absolutely. 255 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.159 All that kept coming to mind when you and I 256 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.919 were talking about this behind the scenes is like, I 257 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:49.080 know somebody who was a victim of domestic abuse and 258 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:52.440 their partner had gone and ruined like they were not 259 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:54.320 paying the rent when they thought they were paying the rent, 260 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:57.279 So her credit was shot and she needs a place 261 00:13:57.320 --> 00:13:58.399 for her and her kids to live. 262 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.200 And if she had a solution like this, she wouldn't be. 263 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:05.320 Getting denial after denial for her and her family because 264 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:08.480 she's out of that situation. She personally is not a risk, 265 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:11.960 but had no idea that she was being taken advantage of. 266 00:14:12.039 --> 00:14:16.240 So it's like stories like this are the reason. 267 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:19.759 Why solutions like yours are really amazing and really come 268 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:22.799 in and bridge that gap for the people who need 269 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:23.399 it the most. 270 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:26.440 Yeah, and you know that it's a really sad story 271 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:30.279 and shows you something that's almost completely out of someone's control. 272 00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:33.159 You know, right, Nobody wants to get into a car accident, 273 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:36.240 nobody wants to be a victim of domestic abuse, nobody 274 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:40.360 wants to lose their job. These situations that are outside 275 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:45.480 of our control happen. We we wanted to be a 276 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:48.720 kind of like a fintech prop tech kind of solution 277 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:52.639 that again doesn't just support the renter because they do 278 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:54.519 need that support, but we want to we want to 279 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:57.000 do it a way that balances the needs of the 280 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:00.480 management side too. And I think that's where, you know, 281 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:04.039 the broadening description of kind of like what technology can 282 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:08.360 do is to come in and disrupt in a positive way, 283 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:11.600 in a way that that balances the equation, but also 284 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:13.840 is one of those very rare kind of like win 285 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.799 win win situations, Like you know, renter wins, the property 286 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:19.279 manager wins, and we win because we get to be 287 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:22.639 a in a business that is expanding access to housing. 288 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:25.960 So very very few times in my life have I 289 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.399 ever seen an actual win win win situation. Yeah, and 290 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:33.000 we get to work for that. But again, I think 291 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:35.799 that that all goes back to making sure that you're 292 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.000 finding a solution or a workflow that allows you to, 293 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.399 you know, solve your problems with dignity in a dignified 294 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.840 way for all parts of the equation, and not just 295 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:47.840 to point the finger at someone and say it's your 296 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.919 problem or you're the fault, but really just say, like, 297 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:53.759 this is a problem, we need to solve it because 298 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:56.600 it's causing challenges on both sides. Yeah. 299 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.840 Absolutely, And like you said, tech is it is one 300 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.559 of the pieces of the puzzle. Are there other pieces 301 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:04.759 that really have to be in place in order for 302 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:06.600 actual progress to happen. 303 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.120 Well, I think again we need to have a larger 304 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:13.639 conversation about like what does that housing workflow look like, 305 00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:17.399 how are we getting people access into housing that exists, 306 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.080 how are we filling up those units. For the management side, 307 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.679 we need to have those top level kind of like 308 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:29.200 government changes for zoning and policies and laws that again 309 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.159 are are factoring in both sides the equation. And until 310 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.919 we can get there, we're coming up with a solution 311 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.840 that supports the least, that supports both sides from that way. 312 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.399 But I think the first part for real progress to 313 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:45.879 happen needs to be that we need to start having 314 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:51.279 this conversation and including the renters or advocates for renters 315 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:53.720 in that equation, because we can't do that in a 316 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:56.000 vacuum in the multi family industry. We can't go to 317 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.679 conferences and just talk about risk mitigation. We have to 318 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.279 go to those conversas and talk about risk mitigation with 319 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.559 renters and understand how, because it's a symbiotic relationship, we're 320 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.599 here together. We don't exist in the multi family industry 321 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.079 without renters, and they don't have housing without us to 322 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.319 provide it for them. So how do we change that 323 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:21.359 conversation to make real progress and understand what the real 324 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:22.720 levers are that we can pull. 325 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.480 Yeah, and since we are talking about you know, standing 326 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.640 behind the renter really advocating for them, we also know 327 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.039 that the other side of it is the operator, and 328 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.079 we don't want to put them in a worse position. 329 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.680 Can you dive into a little bit how your solution 330 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.279 really helps prevent that and it doesn't put them in 331 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:39.839 a worse spot. 332 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:41.359 I know you said it's a win win win. How 333 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:42.400 is it a win win win. 334 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:47.440 Yeah, so the renter you know, obviously gets the support 335 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:50.440 and we can get to help them get like approval assistance. Right, 336 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.160 So we can do that, but it doesn't mean none 337 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.720 of that means anything if the operators or the managers 338 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.839 and the owners feel like they're getting the short end 339 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.799 of the stick. So we wanted to find a way 340 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:07.519 that helped mitigate their concerns, their pains, and their their 341 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.599 risk without you know, having you know, just like a 342 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.480 bad taste in their mouth from this this solution. So 343 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:18.839 we worked so that managers can keep the criteria and 344 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:23.319 even add like portfolio level support so they can take 345 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:25.960 this and use it at one property that they're struggling with, 346 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.799 they can use it across their entire organization. But you 347 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:34.079 need to find a way that allows the managers to 348 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.720 not have to change their entire business model just to 349 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:42.680 accept right and to give them predictable at positive results. Right. 350 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:45.279 So that's another thing that we're pretty proud of is 351 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:49.480 like high high percent, like high ninety or low nineties 352 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.480 percent of successful renters that make it to the end 353 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:56.519 release without any problems at all. It's the proof. The 354 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:58.640 proof is in the pudding that like we gave you 355 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:00.599 a renter, and we showed you and they were a 356 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:04.440 successful renter, like low nineties percent of success without having 357 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.640 any any problems or claims or defaults. And then when 358 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.400 there are defaults to like to come in and have 359 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:15.440 quick reimbursements for any of those losses. So if they 360 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.240 lost out on rent, they lost out on damages or 361 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:20.640 legal fees. For the very small number of people that 362 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:23.519 do have those defaults, then we come in and we 363 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.519 fulfill that promise. We make them whole, and we do 364 00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:30.279 it quickly, so we don't play the insurance game, because 365 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:32.319 we're not insurance, but we don't play the insurance game 366 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:36.200 where we delay and defend and deny or you know, 367 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.359 any of that kind of stuff. So you'll get it. 368 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:42.240 You'll get reimbursements within ten business days or for those claims. 369 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.839 And we also do it in a way where it 370 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:48.880 literally costs the property nothing, so they don't have to 371 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.799 pay for the portfolio insurance policy, they don't have to 372 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.200 pay out these fees, they don't whatever. They just refer 373 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.839 people to us, We run them through our criteria. If 374 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.079 they are a good fit for us, the renter pays 375 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.079 the fee and and then we support their lease, you know, 376 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.640 up to twenty four months. So that's kind of again 377 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:06.839 like making it so the property manager doesn't have to 378 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.440 doesn't have to change anything about the way they do business, 379 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:13.759 but also doesn't have to worry about some future you know, 380 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.880 other shoe to drop because they didn't read the fine print. Right, 381 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:20.839 We support the lease, we give them good renters, and 382 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.640 then if something happens where there's a default, we come 383 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.440 in and we fulfill our promise to support that lease. 384 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:27.839 Yeah, I love it. 385 00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:29.920 I want to switch you gethers just a little bit 386 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:35.000 and talk about risk mitigation holding the hand of fraud prevention. 387 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:36.960 I know you and I kind of chatted about this 388 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:39.480 and not to just sit here and shameless sleep up. 389 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:44.480 But housing accessibility can it can go hand in hand 390 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.359 with broad prevention, even though a lot of the time 391 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.160 it can be seen as opposite priorities. 392 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:52.079 How do you see them working together? 393 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.880 So I think that risk mitigation and fraud prevention are 394 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:02.000 literally complementary topics. Yeah, because the only reason that people 395 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:05.119 engage in fraud is because they don't have a solution 396 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:08.519 available to them to do the right thing right right. 397 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.519 And there's I'm sure there's probably people out there who 398 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:14.000 believe you know they're no, you know they're engaging in 399 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:16.079 fraud because they're bad people. And I'm sure there are 400 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:19.839 bad actors out there, a small, small percession person, but 401 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:23.680