WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:05.400 Ask not what your country can do for you, ask 2 00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:07.360 what you can do for your country. 3 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.400 Mister Gorbachoff, tear down this wall. 4 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:14.679 It's the Ricaget Podcast. I'm James Lillax and of course 5 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:17.760 we have Generald your cook here, and who's walking through 6 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:22.079 that doorwiye, it's founder Peter Robinson. Yes, let's have ourselves 7 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:22.640 a podcast. 8 00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:25.640 Will you make a public commitment today to rule out 9 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:27.600 US regime change in Cuba? 10 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:28.879 Regime change? 11 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:29.199 Yes? 12 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:30.600 Oh no, I think we would love to see the 13 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:32.679 regime their change. We would like to see That doesn't 14 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:33.960 mean that we're going to make a change, but we 15 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:34.520 would love to. 16 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:35.079 See a change. 17 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:37.679 I'm not asking you whether we would prefer a different 18 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:41.240 kind of government. I'm asking whether you are trying to 19 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:43.359 precipitate the fall of the current regime. 20 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:46.320 Yeah, but that's statutory the Helms Burton Act. The US 21 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:48.560 embargo on Cuba is codified. 22 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:51.880 Welcome everybody, it's the Ricagete Podcast, number seven hundred and 23 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:55.479 seventy four. You Yes, you can join us at ricochet 24 00:00:55.479 --> 00:00:57.799 dot com and be part of the most stimulating conversations 25 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.399 and community on the web. Join the member site where 26 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:02.560 the real friendships form, and you'll say where's this been 27 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:03.079 on my life? 28 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:03.439 Where? 29 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:08.879 Well? Waiting for you, and we're waiting for Peter Robinson 30 00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:11.680 to say hello. It's been a while. Hello Peter, it 31 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:12.480 has been a while. 32 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:12.920 How are you? 33 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.120 James couldn't be worse. And Charles C. W. Cook, who 34 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:19.480 is with us from Florida. Charles, You're glad you've joined us. 35 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:20.280 Nice to be here. 36 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:23.719 And of course I'm in Minneapolis or Snoogot issue as 37 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:28.239 some people are calling it. It's a term particularly fond of. 38 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:32.400 But it has been another week. It has been another week. 39 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:33.879 We'll get to some of the things that happened. But 40 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:37.079 the most breaking story I love saying that breaking is 41 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:41.000 that they not only arrested Don Leman, but they arrested 42 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:46.799 an independent journalist in Minneapolis Saint Paul area for participating 43 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.439 in the church break in or the sit in or 44 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:52.239 the the Kurf fluff or whatever you want to call it, 45 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:54.480 where they barged in and started telling everybody how bad 46 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:58.319 they were. This is interesting to me because and I 47 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.280 would like to pretend to grapple with it. Before coming 48 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.239 to I pre examined my predetermined conclusion. But this whole 49 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:09.479 arresting journalists thing, there's a lot in that. There's a 50 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.879 lot in the word journalist, there's a lot in independent journalist. 51 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:17.159 Where are we exactly now with this? And it's a 52 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:20.960 dark new age that is besetting the country. Peter, I'll 53 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:22.879 let you start, because it's been such a long time. 54 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:27.879 Uh sure, I want to hear more from you in 55 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:30.680 due course, of course. I mean, in particular, I still 56 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:35.840 think of Minneapolis, my couple of exposures to Minneapolis. It's 57 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:39.599 left of center and all, but it's a very neighborly place, 58 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:44.719 the just sort of pervasive air of friendship and goodwill 59 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:49.240 and neighborliness. And I gather that even there are attentions 60 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:52.080 are such that even in a grocery store, you can 61 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:54.000 actually feel it. So I want to hear about that. 62 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:58.960 On the journalism, I just don't know. A journalist used 63 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:03.439 to be a reasonably well defined person, and you could 64 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:06.360 prove she could prove that he was a journalist by 65 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:08.439 showing that he worked for the Washington Post or the 66 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:11.879 New York Times or CBS News. And now anybody with 67 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.360 a sub stack can say I'm an independent journalist. 68 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:16.560 So I mean. 69 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.400 I don't And then, of course we know that even 70 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:26.000 under the most carefully the most careful construction of the 71 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:29.039 First Amendment and the freedom of the press. Even at that, 72 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:32.319 even when if you're dealing with a thoroughly credentialed journalist 73 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:35.560 in the old sense where we all understood what journalists meant, 74 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.199 there are lots of things journalists can't do. They can't 75 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:42.960 break into they can't they can't trespass, they can't engage 76 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:46.319 in violence, they can't engage in incitement. So I don't know, 77 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:48.759 I'm the whole thing makes me very uneasy. Is does 78 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:51.080 everything that's taking place in Minneapolis. 79 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:53.840 In Minnesota credential doesn't He is an interesting word. What 80 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:57.280 exactly does that mean? What does it mean? Right? If 81 00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:00.840 you go to journalism school, does that mean you are credentialed? No, necessarily. 82 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:04.080 If you are working for a newspaper, does that mean, Well, 83 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:06.400 it depends on the newspaper. Is it one guy where 84 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:10.080 they you know, you know, putting together four sheets folded 85 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:13.360 in his basement from the Hewart packer printer or is 86 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.240 it a big sheet that rolls off of a massive 87 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:18.959 does that Does that mean it's credentialed and legit? 88 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.920 I mean, even somebody such as Charlie Cook, for example, 89 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:24.560 could claim to be a journalist. 90 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:29.279 Well, I wouldn't have to, because there is no distinction 91 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:34.600 in the law between journalists credentialed or otherwise than anybody else. 92 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:36.399 The First Amendment applies or it doesn't. 93 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:39.240 Well, wait a minute, what about what about New York 94 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:40.040 Times v. Sullivan? 95 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:42.000 But that applies to everybody. 96 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.000 There's no such thing as a journalist in the law. 97 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:50.240 The First Amendment either applies to the activity or it 98 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:53.879 does not. The New York Times or they run a 99 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:56.439 sub stack, or they just one day decided they were 100 00:04:56.439 --> 00:04:59.759 going to go out and observe something, The same laws apply. 101 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.519 Second point I would make about this, and I also 102 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:09.399 don't know how this will come out, but for various reasons, 103 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:16.360 some of them good. Historically, the sentence the president has 104 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:23.040 initiated the arrest of all prosecution of a journalist makes 105 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:27.800 people nervous in the same way as the sentence the 106 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.879 president has initiated the arrest or prosecution of a judge 107 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:32.879 makes people nervous. But one has to get to the 108 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:35.360 second part of any sentence to know whether it's good 109 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:38.279 or bad. We had this case in Wisconsin in which 110 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:43.879 this judge facilitated the escape of an illegal immigrant. The 111 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:48.040 Trump administration went after her. The press immediately said, oh 112 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:50.959 my god, this is Nazi Germany, where they go after judges. 113 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:53.920 But she was convicted, and the reason she was convicted 114 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:56.839 was because she did it. And I think the one 115 00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:59.560 thing about this that makes me a little bit nervous 116 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:02.879 to combine those two points is that we have seen 117 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:08.759 this reflexive argument instantly emerge in the wake of this arrest, 118 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:13.759 the presumption underneath of which is that there's no way 119 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:17.040 that a journalist with credentials could have done something wrong, 120 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:20.120 And this is a self conception of the press that 121 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:20.959 is bizarre. 122 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:23.439 It seems to me entirely possible. 123 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.720 I'm not saying likely, I'm not saying guaranteed, but it 124 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:28.560 seems to me entirely possible given what we know about this, 125 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:33.079 that Don Lemon was part of a violation of the 126 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.519 Face Act. He knew what they were going to do, 127 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:38.399 he didn't try and stop it, he didn't happen upon it. 128 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:39.519 He was part of. 129 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:43.399 So the case goes the construction of an illegal act, 130 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.279 and journalists are not allowed to get away with that 131 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:47.639 just because they shout. 132 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:48.120 The First Amendment. 133 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.399 Now, on the other hand, if he was merely acting 134 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:54.160 in a reportorial capacity. Then perhaps he's innocent, and perhaps 135 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:55.920 he'll get away with it anyway, because they'll apply a 136 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:59.279 different level of scrutiny to him because he is a journalist. 137 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:02.680 But I just hate the wooly thinking that I'm seeing 138 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:06.519 on this that ipso facta, it's wrong to prosecute him 139 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.040 because at one point or another they worked for CNN. 140 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:11.040 We can't have a country in which that's the case. 141 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.360 Well, we have a conception of journalists in this country 142 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.759 that goes back eighty years and it precedes all the 143 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:19.800 president's spen. It goes back to every wise cracking newspaper 144 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:22.399 movie that was ever made, going back to the thirties, 145 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:24.920 where you have a bustling room full of hard nosed 146 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:28.560 guys in wisecrack and gals who are getting the story, 147 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:31.399 who are working for the public, who are trying to 148 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:33.839 get the truth out there part of a big organization 149 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:35.720 with lots of smoke and lots of liquor and lots 150 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:37.360 of fast docking pattern and all the rest of it. 151 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:41.439 And that was the model up in the popular imagination 152 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:44.319 up until you know, I don't know, ten fifteen years ago, 153 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:46.319 when the idea of the newspaper as such begin to 154 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:49.199 recede completely until now it's just the only time people 155 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:51.519 really think about them is when the Washington Post announces 156 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.079 it's shuttering its entire sports desk or something like that. 157 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:58.600 So I mean saying I've never called myself a journalist. 158 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.439 I worked for a journalist organization, but I never pretended 159 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:04.040 to be objective, and so I never felt comfortable calling 160 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:07.240 myself a journalist. I was an opinion writer, a columnist, 161 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:10.040 and just because I had an ax to grind, though, 162 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:12.519 do that mean that I wasn't a journalist. I guarantee 163 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:14.839 you that there are many actes being sharpened on big 164 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:17.199 whetstones in the back of the mind merely everybody who's 165 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:20.480 got into the profession. Now what is should the government 166 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:21.279 do something about it? 167 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:21.480 Though? 168 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:23.720 There was a case tell me what you guys think 169 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:26.720 about this of somebody who was said that there was 170 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:29.920 a bad security at a nuclear facility and we sho 171 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:33.679 shouldn't shouldn't be so lax and securing stuff like this, 172 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:36.000 it's dangerous stuff. And so he hopped the fence just 173 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:37.960 to show how easy it was to get in, and 174 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:41.240 once he got in, security found him and arrested him, 175 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:46.120 and the FBI had a file of fourteen hundred pages 176 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.200 in the US Attorney for the state of Illinois and 177 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:53.240 paneled a grand jury to charge him with espionage. Do 178 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:55.919 you think that that was correct? Hold on, let me stop. 179 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:58.240 Do you know who that man was. 180 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:00.200 In? 181 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:08.279 Was Paul Harvey? Really good day? Yeah. One of the 182 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:09.919 first things he did in his career working for a 183 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.919 radio station was to you know, get bad nuclear security, 184 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.679 and he hopped the fence got himself arrested. It's called 185 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:19.440 participatory investigation. Participatory journalism is what they call it at 186 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:22.919 the time. So Paul, of course would go on to 187 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:27.399 be a national treasure. But it's interesting how these details 188 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:30.679 come to mined sometimes. Anyway, Well, there you go. 189 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.799 I answer to the question, though, is that if there 190 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.399 was a problem with that charging, it was because it 191 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:40.399 was over zealous, not because he was claiming to act 192 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:43.720 in a journalistic capacity. I mean, I wouldn't want you 193 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.679 or anyone else to be charged with that. It's not 194 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:49.240 because he was poor Harvey, right. And I keep harping 195 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:52.399 on this just because journalists do seem to believe it's 196 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.399 a class, that they are specially protected, that the First 197 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:57.679 Amendment applies to them and not other people. That if 198 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:00.240 they just show their press credential, then they can get 199 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.480 away with something that others wouldn't. And that's just not 200 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.960 how the law works, and it's annoying as well. 201 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:09.360 Right, But let me tell you that you show your 202 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.200 press credentials and you do have special treatment. You do 203 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:15.799 get to go places at other people don't. I remember 204 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:18.240 in Washington, I went for my press credentials and behind 205 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:20.759 me was a flag and it was a I think 206 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:23.440 it was white with a green striped diagonal. And what 207 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:26.360 that meant was I had certain access to certain areas. 208 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:28.559 So you could look at somebody's press credential and tell 209 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.320 exactly how far they could get in based on the 210 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:34.360 flag behind them. If you are at a political convention 211 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:37.000 where I've been, you have big, huge badges around your 212 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:39.240 neck with holograms on them to tell them whether or 213 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:40.879 not you can go in this room. You get used 214 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:43.000 to that, You get used to waving the press card 215 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.720 and being able to go places that other people can't, 216 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.960 and this I think affects how you see you. 217 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:51.840 All. 218 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:58.440 Right, another shooting, we had Alex, pretty intensive care nurse 219 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:02.799 killed by federal agents. And now we have a new 220 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:06.240 video and Charles, let's get to Wooly thinking about this, 221 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:08.360 because when the new video came out showing him on 222 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:11.240 the site kicking out the tailight of an ice vehicle 223 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.039 and spitting at it and saying the F bob and 224 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:14.559 the middle finger and all the rest of the charming 225 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:18.360 ways in which we protesting this country, some people were saying, well, 226 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.120 it doesn't change anything, doesn't mean he deserved to get shot, 227 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:27.080 which is wooly thinking. Guide us through, if you will, 228 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:30.600 as a firearms enthusiast, how you regard this episode, especially 229 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:32.480 the people say, oh, I thought you like Copencarey. I 230 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:34.120 thought they were supposed to have I thought they were 231 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:37.240 supposed to have guns in order to withstand a tyrenical government. 232 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:38.320 Isn't just this that? 233 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:41.519 Wow, there's so much there. I'll try not to speak 234 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:42.159 for ten minutes. 235 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:43.759 Peter jump in after nine. 236 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:52.480 Yeah, the second video does not affect the shooting because 237 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.159 it was on a different day, in different circumstances. He 238 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.799 was not shot for his cumulative actions or for his character. 239 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:04.879 So in so far as people saw that second video 240 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:06.519 of him kicking out the tail light. 241 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:09.399 And said, Aha, that explains it, it doesn't. 242 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:15.720 The second video does, though, obviate the claim that he 243 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.600 was just a lovely, peaceful nurse who spent his time 244 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:23.039 helping puppies and children. That's not true, and that has 245 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:28.399 been smuggled in to the narrative to make it seem 246 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:32.960 as if he was an innocent bystander, in much the 247 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:36.720 same way as the shooting of Rene Good was after 248 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:41.200 a few days described as the murder of a mother 249 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.279 who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, 250 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.159 having dropped off her child. And if you believe that 251 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.559 the truth matter is an idea, then we ought not 252 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.759 to allow that. The video of him kicking out the 253 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.840 tail light shows somebody who was very angry and unhinged, 254 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:02.759 somebody who is shouting, verbatim, effing, assault me, you mother, effers, 255 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:08.720 somebody who committed a felony by kicking a federal vehicle 256 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:10.799 and causing more than a thousand dollars of damage to 257 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:12.440 look up the cost of the tail light. 258 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:13.159 That's the law. 259 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.360 Below a thousand is a misdemeanor, above a thousand is 260 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:18.679 a felony, and who had a gun on him, which 261 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.240 renders it a felony irrespective of the scale of the crime. 262 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.360 So the video doesn't matter, and it doesn't, but it 263 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.799 matters in so far as it pushes back against this 264 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:32.960 desire some how to turn everyone who has been the 265 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:39.320 victim of a wrong into a saint. On the gun point, 266 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:44.440 he committed in the second video of federal crime by 267 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:48.039 committing a crime while carrying a firearm. That's a felony. 268 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:51.240 But he wasn't arrested, he wasn't charged, and eleven days 269 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:54.519 later he got into a different incident, which I think 270 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:57.480 is much more difficult to passe out as a matter 271 00:13:57.559 --> 00:13:58.080 of prudence. 272 00:13:58.120 --> 00:13:59.679 I don't think you should carry a gun and fight 273 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:00.960 with fee officers. 274 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:03.639 But some of the rhetoric that's come out of the 275 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:06.759 Trump administration about this is just wrong. It is not 276 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.559 true that you are not allowed to go to a 277 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.759 protest armed. There are some states in which that is true. 278 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:15.240 California is one of them, which makes it ridiculous that 279 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:17.440 Gavin Newsom has adopted this stance. He has because he 280 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:21.039 signed the law outlaw and carry it protest, But Minnesota 281 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:23.440 is not that state. Minnesota wants to be that state 282 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.919 because Minnesota father brief with the Supreme Court arguing that 283 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.279 the Second Amendment doesn't apply to protests that was signed 284 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:34.080 by Keith Ellison, the Attorney General of Minnesota. But at 285 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:35.799 the moment that is not the law. The law is 286 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.759 that you can carry it a protest. You can also 287 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.360 approach cops and federal agents while armed and not expect 288 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.440 to get shot. A lot of what the Trump administration 289 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:46.919 has said is wrong. On the other hand, a lot 290 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:48.600 of what the left has said is wrong as well, 291 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.200 in that a it has been trying to outlaw the gun. 292 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:56.720 He was carrying carry itself and carrying a protests, but 293 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:59.440 is now acting as some sort of indignant Wayne Lapierre 294 00:14:59.519 --> 00:14:59.960 stand in. 295 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.120 That's ridiculous. 296 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.679 And the description of the Second Amendment here from progressives 297 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:09.440 has been bizarre. Dean Phillips, who ran for president against 298 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:11.759 Joe Biden in twenty twenty four on the grounds that 299 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:15.600 Joe Biden was too old shocker, said that he finally 300 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:17.440 understood what the Second Amendment was for. 301 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.840 That's an insane thing to say. Let's just clarify this. 302 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:24.240 The Second Amendment is in part there to protect against 303 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:25.279 tyrannical governments. 304 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:29.720 But you have to actually start a war to exercise it. 305 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:31.279 It's not an ally kart system. 306 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.240 You can't say, well, I don't like this law, I 307 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.639 don't like this agent, I don't like this tactic in 308 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:39.440 this city, so we can just what shoot them. I mean, 309 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:41.679 the Second Amendment is all or nothing. If you're going 310 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:44.639 to take the Second Amendment remedy, you are starting a 311 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.720 revolution that you have to take to its logical conclusion. 312 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:52.039 So this doesn't somehow substantiate the Second Amendment. It doesn't 313 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:53.960 render those of us who are in favor of the 314 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.720 Second Amendment and haven't said what the Trump administration has 315 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:57.919 said hypocrites. 316 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.639 We don't believe you are allowed to open fire on 317 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:01.799 federal agents. 318 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.960 So I think so much of the commentary on this 319 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.360 has been completely ridiculous. I do think this was a 320 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:09.840 bad shoot. I will say I think they got it wrong. 321 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:12.639 I think it was probably the product of an accident. 322 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:15.120 I think there was a misunderstanding. He did have a gun, 323 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.720 he was disarmed. Someone shouts gun. Some people said the 324 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.559 gun went off. I'm not sure if it did or not. 325 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:24.080 And then the agent opens fire and is joined by 326 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.879 another agent. I don't think that it was willful. I 327 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.600 don't think that it was an assassination, but I do 328 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:31.440 think it was a mistake. I do think they were 329 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:36.759 too trigger happy, and I think that it's important to 330 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:40.320 acknowledge that as the Trump administration did not, at least initially. 331 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.960 Trump's been much better than all of his underlings, because, 332 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:47.399 as I said before, the truth has to matter. 333 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.039 I think both were regrettable and wrong, to be frank, 334 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.679 and I think both were entirely avoidable. And it's one 335 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:56.440 of the reasons that don't park like gar perpendicular in 336 00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:59.440 the street. When I see the police apprehending some Peruvian 337 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.080 pedophile what they've managed to track down? Peter, what say 338 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.359 you are? Is this fellow a domestic terrorist? As Christine 339 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.400 doan calm, No. 340 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:11.079 No, the use of the word terrorist is wrong. There 341 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.359 by the way, Charlie, thank you very First of all, 342 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:17.240 when Charlie's angry, he's the thing to behold. He's a 343 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.680 wonder on any podcast, and he is extremely angry right now. 344 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:24.599 That's lovely. I confess to wooly thinking. I began with 345 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:26.640 the program with Willy thinking. I'm just offering up my 346 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.000 sort of reactions reading the news, looking at it as 347 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.720 it pops up in my ex file. Thank you Charles C. W. 348 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:37.240 Cook for rigorous thinking about journalism and the law and 349 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:41.079 the constitution. Now I confess I go from wooly thinking, 350 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:43.359 confessing that to confessing a second thought, which is that 351 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:48.160 my thinking tends to run in political grooves, and the 352 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.200 politics of the thing that I see here are as follows. 353 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:57.079 Five weeks ago, four weeks ago, the big story in 354 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:06.119 Minnesota was the enormous corruption, the theft at staggering levels 355 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:12.680 of public monies by largely the Somali community, which of 356 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:16.759 course raises all kinds of questions about immigrants and our 357 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.559 failure to assimilate them and what they're doing there, and 358 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:24.880 the bad guys in whom I would include, even if 359 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.559 an almost endearingly fumbling bad guy, the governor of Minnesota, 360 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.319 Tim Waltz, were so much on the defensive five weeks 361 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:37.720 ago politically that Waltz announced he was no longer going 362 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.640 to run for a third term as governor. They were losing, 363 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:47.640 and the administration, or put it more broadly, the conservative 364 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.200 movement or the just the impulse toward decency and accountable 365 00:18:52.240 --> 00:19:00.160 government was winning. And now we have horrible incidents. Are 366 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:01.720 they regret They're both regrettable. 367 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:02.960 For what it's worth. 368 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.119 The second incident seems to me just as Charlie said, so, 369 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:08.359 I mean, you have to bear in mind these guys 370 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.559 are they're being screamed at, spat at. Their heartbreak is up. 371 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:15.720 There is an adrenaline release, and they can make mistakes 372 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.039 under those circumstances. It looks to me like a mistake. 373 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:22.079 But the way christinom yapped and said things that were 374 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:26.440 mistaken and untrue and provided an opening for the mayor 375 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:31.160 of Minneapolis and Governor Waltz, who just weeks ago were 376 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.319 slinking around with their tails between their legs, provided an 377 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:39.279 opening for them to reassert themselves politically as and give 378 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:44.200 one speech after another of righteous indignation strikes it strikes 379 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:47.240 me as just astounding. So at the political level here 380 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:51.119 Charlie deals with the truth, which I admit is a 381 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.519 higher concern. But at the political level, the administration is 382 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:55.839 just screwed up. 383 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:58.400 That's what I think. I think. 384 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.880 So taking uh a Veno Holman home Tom Holman seems 385 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.680 a huge improvement. I'd I'd love to hear it. Just 386 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:09.920 that the guy seems professional. He comes across as a 387 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.559 very ordinary, decent guy. He comes across as more than 388 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.880 intelligent enough, but also there's a kind of solidity and 389 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:19.759 decency about him that, let's put it this way, sending 390 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.680 him and strike me as as the correct move politically Again. 391 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.400 I'm talking politically because he seems like the kind of 392 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.240 person who just is so solid that by his presence 393 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:30.319 he'll calm things down. 394 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:37.119 But his opinions on getting illegal people out of the 395 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.400 country to the progressives puts him in the same category 396 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:46.000 as Steven Miller wearing a floor length black leather SS 397 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:49.799 outfit designed by Hugo Bass. I mean, his ideas are 398 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:52.440 seen as reprehensible, which is what I want to get 399 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.160 back to all the time when it comes to these things. 400 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.680 Charlie is talking about the basic principles, you're talking about 401 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:00.799