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Speaker 1: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask

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what you can do for your country.

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Speaker 2: Mister Gorbachoff, tear down this wall.

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Speaker 1: It's the Ricaget Podcast. I'm James Lillax and of course

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we have Generald your cook here, and who's walking through

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that doorwiye, it's founder Peter Robinson. Yes, let's have ourselves

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a podcast.

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Speaker 3: Will you make a public commitment today to rule out

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US regime change in Cuba?

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Speaker 2: Regime change?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I think we would love to see the

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regime their change. We would like to see That doesn't

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mean that we're going to make a change, but we

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would love to.

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Speaker 4: See a change.

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Speaker 3: I'm not asking you whether we would prefer a different

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kind of government. I'm asking whether you are trying to

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precipitate the fall of the current regime.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's statutory the Helms Burton Act. The US

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embargo on Cuba is codified.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody, it's the Ricagete Podcast, number seven hundred and

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seventy four. You Yes, you can join us at ricochet

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dot com and be part of the most stimulating conversations

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and community on the web. Join the member site where

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the real friendships form, and you'll say where's this been

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on my life?

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Speaker 4: Where?

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Speaker 1: Well? Waiting for you, and we're waiting for Peter Robinson

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to say hello. It's been a while. Hello Peter, it

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has been a while.

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Speaker 4: How are you?

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Speaker 1: James couldn't be worse. And Charles C. W. Cook, who

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is with us from Florida. Charles, You're glad you've joined us.

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Speaker 5: Nice to be here.

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Speaker 1: And of course I'm in Minneapolis or Snoogot issue as

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some people are calling it. It's a term particularly fond of.

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But it has been another week. It has been another week.

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We'll get to some of the things that happened. But

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the most breaking story I love saying that breaking is

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that they not only arrested Don Leman, but they arrested

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an independent journalist in Minneapolis Saint Paul area for participating

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in the church break in or the sit in or

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the the Kurf fluff or whatever you want to call it,

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where they barged in and started telling everybody how bad

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they were. This is interesting to me because and I

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would like to pretend to grapple with it. Before coming

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to I pre examined my predetermined conclusion. But this whole

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arresting journalists thing, there's a lot in that. There's a

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lot in the word journalist, there's a lot in independent journalist.

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Where are we exactly now with this? And it's a

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dark new age that is besetting the country. Peter, I'll

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let you start, because it's been such a long time.

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Speaker 4: Uh sure, I want to hear more from you in

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due course, of course. I mean, in particular, I still

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think of Minneapolis, my couple of exposures to Minneapolis. It's

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left of center and all, but it's a very neighborly place,

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the just sort of pervasive air of friendship and goodwill

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and neighborliness. And I gather that even there are attentions

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are such that even in a grocery store, you can

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actually feel it. So I want to hear about that.

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On the journalism, I just don't know. A journalist used

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to be a reasonably well defined person, and you could

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prove she could prove that he was a journalist by

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showing that he worked for the Washington Post or the

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New York Times or CBS News. And now anybody with

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a sub stack can say I'm an independent journalist.

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Speaker 5: So I mean.

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Speaker 4: I don't And then, of course we know that even

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under the most carefully the most careful construction of the

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First Amendment and the freedom of the press. Even at that,

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even when if you're dealing with a thoroughly credentialed journalist

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in the old sense where we all understood what journalists meant,

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there are lots of things journalists can't do. They can't

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break into they can't they can't trespass, they can't engage

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in violence, they can't engage in incitement. So I don't know,

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I'm the whole thing makes me very uneasy. Is does

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everything that's taking place in Minneapolis.

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Speaker 1: In Minnesota credential doesn't He is an interesting word. What

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exactly does that mean? What does it mean? Right? If

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you go to journalism school, does that mean you are credentialed? No, necessarily.

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If you are working for a newspaper, does that mean, Well,

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it depends on the newspaper. Is it one guy where

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they you know, you know, putting together four sheets folded

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in his basement from the Hewart packer printer or is

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it a big sheet that rolls off of a massive

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does that Does that mean it's credentialed and legit?

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Speaker 4: I mean, even somebody such as Charlie Cook, for example,

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could claim to be a journalist.

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Speaker 6: Well, I wouldn't have to, because there is no distinction

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in the law between journalists credentialed or otherwise than anybody else.

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The First Amendment applies or it doesn't.

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Speaker 4: Well, wait a minute, what about what about New York

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Times v. Sullivan?

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Speaker 5: But that applies to everybody.

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Speaker 6: There's no such thing as a journalist in the law.

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The First Amendment either applies to the activity or it

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does not. The New York Times or they run a

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sub stack, or they just one day decided they were

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going to go out and observe something, The same laws apply.

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Second point I would make about this, and I also

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don't know how this will come out, but for various reasons,

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some of them good. Historically, the sentence the president has

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initiated the arrest of all prosecution of a journalist makes

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people nervous in the same way as the sentence the

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president has initiated the arrest or prosecution of a judge

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makes people nervous. But one has to get to the

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second part of any sentence to know whether it's good

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or bad. We had this case in Wisconsin in which

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this judge facilitated the escape of an illegal immigrant. The

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Trump administration went after her. The press immediately said, oh

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my god, this is Nazi Germany, where they go after judges.

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But she was convicted, and the reason she was convicted

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was because she did it. And I think the one

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thing about this that makes me a little bit nervous

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to combine those two points is that we have seen

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this reflexive argument instantly emerge in the wake of this arrest,

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the presumption underneath of which is that there's no way

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that a journalist with credentials could have done something wrong,

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And this is a self conception of the press that

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is bizarre.

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Speaker 5: It seems to me entirely possible.

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Speaker 6: I'm not saying likely, I'm not saying guaranteed, but it

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seems to me entirely possible given what we know about this,

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that Don Lemon was part of a violation of the

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Face Act. He knew what they were going to do,

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he didn't try and stop it, he didn't happen upon it.

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Speaker 5: He was part of.

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Speaker 6: So the case goes the construction of an illegal act,

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and journalists are not allowed to get away with that

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just because they shout.

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Speaker 5: The First Amendment.

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Speaker 6: Now, on the other hand, if he was merely acting

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in a reportorial capacity. Then perhaps he's innocent, and perhaps

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he'll get away with it anyway, because they'll apply a

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different level of scrutiny to him because he is a journalist.

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But I just hate the wooly thinking that I'm seeing

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on this that ipso facta, it's wrong to prosecute him

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because at one point or another they worked for CNN.

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We can't have a country in which that's the case.

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Speaker 1: Well, we have a conception of journalists in this country

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that goes back eighty years and it precedes all the

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president's spen. It goes back to every wise cracking newspaper

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movie that was ever made, going back to the thirties,

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where you have a bustling room full of hard nosed

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guys in wisecrack and gals who are getting the story,

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who are working for the public, who are trying to

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get the truth out there part of a big organization

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with lots of smoke and lots of liquor and lots

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of fast docking pattern and all the rest of it.

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And that was the model up in the popular imagination

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up until you know, I don't know, ten fifteen years ago,

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when the idea of the newspaper as such begin to

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recede completely until now it's just the only time people

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really think about them is when the Washington Post announces

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it's shuttering its entire sports desk or something like that.

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So I mean saying I've never called myself a journalist.

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I worked for a journalist organization, but I never pretended

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to be objective, and so I never felt comfortable calling

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myself a journalist. I was an opinion writer, a columnist,

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and just because I had an ax to grind, though,

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do that mean that I wasn't a journalist. I guarantee

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you that there are many actes being sharpened on big

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whetstones in the back of the mind merely everybody who's

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got into the profession. Now what is should the government

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do something about it?

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Speaker 4: Though?

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Speaker 1: There was a case tell me what you guys think

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about this of somebody who was said that there was

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a bad security at a nuclear facility and we sho

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shouldn't shouldn't be so lax and securing stuff like this,

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it's dangerous stuff. And so he hopped the fence just

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to show how easy it was to get in, and

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once he got in, security found him and arrested him,

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and the FBI had a file of fourteen hundred pages

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in the US Attorney for the state of Illinois and

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paneled a grand jury to charge him with espionage. Do

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you think that that was correct? Hold on, let me stop.

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Do you know who that man was.

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Speaker 7: In?

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Speaker 1: Was Paul Harvey? Really good day? Yeah. One of the

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first things he did in his career working for a

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radio station was to you know, get bad nuclear security,

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and he hopped the fence got himself arrested. It's called

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participatory investigation. Participatory journalism is what they call it at

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the time. So Paul, of course would go on to

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be a national treasure. But it's interesting how these details

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come to mined sometimes. Anyway, Well, there you go.

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Speaker 6: I answer to the question, though, is that if there

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was a problem with that charging, it was because it

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was over zealous, not because he was claiming to act

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in a journalistic capacity. I mean, I wouldn't want you

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or anyone else to be charged with that. It's not

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because he was poor Harvey, right. And I keep harping

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on this just because journalists do seem to believe it's

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a class, that they are specially protected, that the First

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Amendment applies to them and not other people. That if

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they just show their press credential, then they can get

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away with something that others wouldn't. And that's just not

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how the law works, and it's annoying as well.

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Speaker 1: Right, But let me tell you that you show your

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press credentials and you do have special treatment. You do

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get to go places at other people don't. I remember

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in Washington, I went for my press credentials and behind

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me was a flag and it was a I think

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it was white with a green striped diagonal. And what

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that meant was I had certain access to certain areas.

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So you could look at somebody's press credential and tell

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exactly how far they could get in based on the

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flag behind them. If you are at a political convention

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where I've been, you have big, huge badges around your

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neck with holograms on them to tell them whether or

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not you can go in this room. You get used

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to that, You get used to waving the press card

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and being able to go places that other people can't,

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and this I think affects how you see you.

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Speaker 2: All.

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Speaker 1: Right, another shooting, we had Alex, pretty intensive care nurse

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killed by federal agents. And now we have a new

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video and Charles, let's get to Wooly thinking about this,

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because when the new video came out showing him on

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the site kicking out the tailight of an ice vehicle

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and spitting at it and saying the F bob and

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the middle finger and all the rest of the charming

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ways in which we protesting this country, some people were saying, well,

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it doesn't change anything, doesn't mean he deserved to get shot,

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which is wooly thinking. Guide us through, if you will,

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as a firearms enthusiast, how you regard this episode, especially

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the people say, oh, I thought you like Copencarey. I

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thought they were supposed to have I thought they were

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supposed to have guns in order to withstand a tyrenical government.

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Isn't just this that?

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Speaker 6: Wow, there's so much there. I'll try not to speak

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for ten minutes.

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Speaker 1: Peter jump in after nine.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the second video does not affect the shooting because

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it was on a different day, in different circumstances. He

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was not shot for his cumulative actions or for his character.

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So in so far as people saw that second video

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of him kicking out the tail light.

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Speaker 5: And said, Aha, that explains it, it doesn't.

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Speaker 6: The second video does, though, obviate the claim that he

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was just a lovely, peaceful nurse who spent his time

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helping puppies and children. That's not true, and that has

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been smuggled in to the narrative to make it seem

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as if he was an innocent bystander, in much the

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same way as the shooting of Rene Good was after

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a few days described as the murder of a mother

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who was in the wrong place at the wrong time,

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having dropped off her child. And if you believe that

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the truth matter is an idea, then we ought not

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to allow that. The video of him kicking out the

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tail light shows somebody who was very angry and unhinged,

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somebody who is shouting, verbatim, effing, assault me, you mother, effers,

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somebody who committed a felony by kicking a federal vehicle

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and causing more than a thousand dollars of damage to

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look up the cost of the tail light.

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Speaker 5: That's the law.

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Speaker 6: Below a thousand is a misdemeanor, above a thousand is

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a felony, and who had a gun on him, which

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renders it a felony irrespective of the scale of the crime.

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So the video doesn't matter, and it doesn't, but it

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matters in so far as it pushes back against this

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desire some how to turn everyone who has been the

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victim of a wrong into a saint. On the gun point,

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he committed in the second video of federal crime by

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committing a crime while carrying a firearm. That's a felony.

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But he wasn't arrested, he wasn't charged, and eleven days

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later he got into a different incident, which I think

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is much more difficult to passe out as a matter

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of prudence.

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Speaker 5: I don't think you should carry a gun and fight

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with fee officers.

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Speaker 6: But some of the rhetoric that's come out of the

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Trump administration about this is just wrong. It is not

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true that you are not allowed to go to a

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protest armed. There are some states in which that is true.

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California is one of them, which makes it ridiculous that

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Gavin Newsom has adopted this stance. He has because he

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signed the law outlaw and carry it protest, But Minnesota

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is not that state. Minnesota wants to be that state

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because Minnesota father brief with the Supreme Court arguing that

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the Second Amendment doesn't apply to protests that was signed

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by Keith Ellison, the Attorney General of Minnesota. But at

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the moment that is not the law. The law is

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that you can carry it a protest. You can also

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approach cops and federal agents while armed and not expect

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to get shot. A lot of what the Trump administration

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has said is wrong. On the other hand, a lot

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of what the left has said is wrong as well,

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in that a it has been trying to outlaw the gun.

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He was carrying carry itself and carrying a protests, but

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is now acting as some sort of indignant Wayne Lapierre

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stand in.

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Speaker 5: That's ridiculous.

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Speaker 6: And the description of the Second Amendment here from progressives

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has been bizarre. Dean Phillips, who ran for president against

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Joe Biden in twenty twenty four on the grounds that

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Joe Biden was too old shocker, said that he finally

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understood what the Second Amendment was for.

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Speaker 5: That's an insane thing to say. Let's just clarify this.

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Speaker 6: The Second Amendment is in part there to protect against

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tyrannical governments.

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Speaker 5: But you have to actually start a war to exercise it.

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It's not an ally kart system.

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Speaker 6: You can't say, well, I don't like this law, I

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don't like this agent, I don't like this tactic in

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this city, so we can just what shoot them. I mean,

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the Second Amendment is all or nothing. If you're going

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to take the Second Amendment remedy, you are starting a

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revolution that you have to take to its logical conclusion.

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So this doesn't somehow substantiate the Second Amendment. It doesn't

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render those of us who are in favor of the

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Second Amendment and haven't said what the Trump administration has

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said hypocrites.

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Speaker 5: We don't believe you are allowed to open fire on

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federal agents.

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Speaker 6: So I think so much of the commentary on this

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has been completely ridiculous. I do think this was a

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bad shoot. I will say I think they got it wrong.

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I think it was probably the product of an accident.

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I think there was a misunderstanding. He did have a gun,

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he was disarmed. Someone shouts gun. Some people said the

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gun went off. I'm not sure if it did or not.

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And then the agent opens fire and is joined by

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another agent. I don't think that it was willful. I

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don't think that it was an assassination, but I do

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think it was a mistake. I do think they were

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too trigger happy, and I think that it's important to

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acknowledge that as the Trump administration did not, at least initially.

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Trump's been much better than all of his underlings, because,

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as I said before, the truth has to matter.

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Speaker 1: I think both were regrettable and wrong, to be frank,

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and I think both were entirely avoidable. And it's one

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of the reasons that don't park like gar perpendicular in

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the street. When I see the police apprehending some Peruvian

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pedophile what they've managed to track down? Peter, what say

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you are? Is this fellow a domestic terrorist? As Christine

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doan calm, No.

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Speaker 4: No, the use of the word terrorist is wrong. There

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by the way, Charlie, thank you very First of all,

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when Charlie's angry, he's the thing to behold. He's a

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wonder on any podcast, and he is extremely angry right now.

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That's lovely. I confess to wooly thinking. I began with

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the program with Willy thinking. I'm just offering up my

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sort of reactions reading the news, looking at it as

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it pops up in my ex file. Thank you Charles C. W.

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Cook for rigorous thinking about journalism and the law and

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the constitution. Now I confess I go from wooly thinking,

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confessing that to confessing a second thought, which is that

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my thinking tends to run in political grooves, and the

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politics of the thing that I see here are as follows.

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Five weeks ago, four weeks ago, the big story in

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Minnesota was the enormous corruption, the theft at staggering levels

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of public monies by largely the Somali community, which of

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course raises all kinds of questions about immigrants and our

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failure to assimilate them and what they're doing there, and

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the bad guys in whom I would include, even if

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an almost endearingly fumbling bad guy, the governor of Minnesota,

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Tim Waltz, were so much on the defensive five weeks

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ago politically that Waltz announced he was no longer going

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to run for a third term as governor. They were losing,

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and the administration, or put it more broadly, the conservative

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movement or the just the impulse toward decency and accountable

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government was winning. And now we have horrible incidents. Are

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they regret They're both regrettable.

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Speaker 1: For what it's worth.

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Speaker 4: The second incident seems to me just as Charlie said, so,

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I mean, you have to bear in mind these guys

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are they're being screamed at, spat at. Their heartbreak is up.

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There is an adrenaline release, and they can make mistakes

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under those circumstances. It looks to me like a mistake.

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But the way christinom yapped and said things that were

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mistaken and untrue and provided an opening for the mayor

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of Minneapolis and Governor Waltz, who just weeks ago were

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slinking around with their tails between their legs, provided an

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opening for them to reassert themselves politically as and give

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one speech after another of righteous indignation strikes it strikes

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me as just astounding. So at the political level here

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Charlie deals with the truth, which I admit is a

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higher concern. But at the political level, the administration is

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just screwed up.

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Speaker 1: That's what I think. I think.

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Speaker 4: So taking uh a Veno Holman home Tom Holman seems

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a huge improvement. I'd I'd love to hear it. Just

386
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that the guy seems professional. He comes across as a

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very ordinary, decent guy. He comes across as more than

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intelligent enough, but also there's a kind of solidity and

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decency about him that, let's put it this way, sending

390
00:20:19,839 --> 00:20:22,680
him and strike me as as the correct move politically Again.

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I'm talking politically because he seems like the kind of

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person who just is so solid that by his presence

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he'll calm things down.

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Speaker 1: But his opinions on getting illegal people out of the

395
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country to the progressives puts him in the same category

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as Steven Miller wearing a floor length black leather SS

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outfit designed by Hugo Bass. I mean, his ideas are

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seen as reprehensible, which is what I want to get

399
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back to all the time when it comes to these things.

400
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Charlie is talking about the basic principles, you're talking about

401
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,799
the politic grooves. I am constantly struggling with how to

402
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argue and discuss this with neighbors, friends, relatives, etc. Who

403
00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:10,519
have a set of assumptions that I don't know what

404
00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:12,720
they are. Sometimes I never hear them. Sometimes they don't

405
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,000
have the assumptions at all. Sometimes they have no predicates whatsoever.

406
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Sometimes they have no thoughts. They haven't thought about immigration

407
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at all. They start with seeing a bad thing. They

408
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start with seeing guys with masks going into a house,

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and they see their fellow Minnesota and standing on the

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street corners being unhappy about it, and from that they

411
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draw the only possible conclusion, which is that the people

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who are protesting are in the right because, as we know,

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in this country, anybody gets out there and protests and

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has signs is correct, has the moral high ground. That's

415
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how it works since nineteen sixty whatever. And that the

416
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bad guys. However, you want to work that argument back,

417
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,759
they're the bad guys. So they are the culmination of badness.

418
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You can't get these people. They don't want to talk

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about where this starts. It starts with the idea of

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a nation of citizenship, of borders, of control, of what

421
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,680
it means to be a citizen, what it means to

422
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be able to say you are a citizen and you

423
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are not. And that may sound unfair to some people.

424
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What is it an accident of birth? No, but this

425
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is how we've operated the state. This is this is

426
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how it is set up. You cannot open the borders

427
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to absolutely everybody, because then you lose your nation. Oh

428
00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:25,359
so you're saying then that once the nation isn't composed

429
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,480
exactly like the demographs of the North Dakota, it won't

430
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be America anymore. That's that's what I'm saying. Yes, that's

431
00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:32,839
why we have to control it. So if we're going

432
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to control it, we have to have a mechanism for enforcement.

433
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If we have to have a mechanism for enforcement, it's

434
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going to have to involve force. How do you how

435
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,839
do you get rid of the Laotian drug dealer or

436
00:22:46,079 --> 00:22:49,440
the guy from Uganda who came here and drove his

437
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car drunk into somebody and killed three people? How do

438
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,200
you go find them and get rid of them except

439
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:56,799
by force? And is it the fact that they have

440
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,480
scary uniforms and they're masked, Is that it if they arrived,

441
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:07,079
you know, in pastoral robes, would that be better? The

442
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,680
argument never happens because it's all focused on big scary

443
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guys doing big scary things to people in our neighborhood.

444
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Our neighbors in our neighborhood now. And also, you know,

445
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I will agree arbitrary detention of somebody who just doesn't

446
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,880
look right. I don't agree with that. And I hear

447
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,440
stories about this. I hear stories about this all the time.

448
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I don't know how true they are, but I hear

449
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,680
stories about this all the time. But the idea that

450
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the enforcement mechanism that we've done for decades, that Obama

451
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did over and over and over again, is somehow now

452
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illegitimate because they're masked, because they're pulling people out of

453
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the houses. And if you try to tell them, well,

454
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they're pulling people's out of the houses because they had

455
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to go get them because the jails let them go,

456
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that's an argument that they don't want to have either.

457
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:51,039
It's just ice out. That's it. It's just ice out,

458
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ice out, ice out, ice out.

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Speaker 6: And this is why, James, I will not have the

460
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conversations you're describing with until we establish as a common

461
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starting point that the federal government gets to execute federal

462
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law even if people don't like it. Because all of

463
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,359
the subsidiary objections that you've mentioned, some of which are true,

464
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some of which I agree with, are in this instance

465
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being used as smoke screens for the actual objection, which

466
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is to immigration law per se. The people who are

467
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,960
pushing back against this are doing so in absolute terms.

468
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,880
They will say, well, I'm upset about the masks, or

469
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I'm upset about this particular incident. And again maybe I'll

470
00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:45,640
agree with them on the tactics from time to time,

471
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but what they really mean and what they always eventually

472
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get to, whether implicitly or explicitly is that Ice should

473
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not be there in the first place, and nobody else

474
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execute the immigration law should be there.

475
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Speaker 5: You see this with Jacob.

476
00:25:01,759 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 6: Frye, the mayor of Minneapolis, who will say things that

477
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,039
are true, for example, that Minneapolis is not obliged to

478
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enforce federal immigration law itself.

479
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Speaker 5: That's true.

480
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:18,559
Speaker 6: Prince of the United States nineteen ninety seven Supreme Court

481
00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:22,559
case justifies that, as does the old Prig case from

482
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:27,440
eighteen forty two. But then he'll say, get Ice out.

483
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,440
Then he'll say, these are our neighbors we benefit from.

484
00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:34,880
He calls them immigrants, but we're dealing here with illegal immigrants.

485
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,079
Speaker 5: Okay, that's a separate.

486
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,759
Speaker 6: Issue, and we resolved this pretty famously in eighteen sixty five.

487
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,039
The federal government gets to execute federal law. We do

488
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,400
not have a country in which, with the state government

489
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:58,160
egging them on, networks of activists are allowed to systematically

490
00:25:58,279 --> 00:26:02,759
prevent the enforcement of duly enacted laws. And those laws,

491
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,559
for what it's worth, those laws are not controversial. We're

492
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:11,079
not talking here about the federal government claiming powers that

493
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,200
Congress hasn't given it. We're not talking here about the

494
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,160
federal government usurping the power of the states in violation

495
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,720
of the Constitution. We're not talking about a law that

496
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:22,519
is vague or that is disputed. We're not talking about

497
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:25,200
a law that is currently in litigation in the Supreme Court.

498
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,119
These laws have been on the books for thirty fifty

499
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,359
seventy eighty one hundred years. Most of the systems that

500
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,880
are being used at the moment by ICE were put

501
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,759
into place in nineteen ninety six in the Clinton administration,

502
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:41,960
and so I have been quite open to criticisms of ICE,

503
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,400
as we've just discussed. I think this was a bad shooting,

504
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:47,680
and I think the renee Good one was probably legally

505
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,319
defensible but morally problematic. But I just am not going

506
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,720
to be distracted by all of the smaller picture questions

507
00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:57,759
to the point of which I lose sight of what's happening.

508
00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:00,839
Speaker 5: I'm not that stupid. I'm not going to be calmed.

509
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 6: They don't want immigration law enforce and that's unacceptable. That's nullification,

510
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,640
and it just cannot stand, and the Trump administration can't

511
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,279
allow it to And there.

512
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: We have the problem. You call them smaller issues, and

513
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,000
to them they are the only issues. The biggest issue,

514
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:18,319
the main primary issue is irrelevant, Peter, do you think

515
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:20,759
that this is because and I don't want to psychoanalyze

516
00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:23,960
too much. Although it's fun, part of it is like

517
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,319
I was something to do. Part of it is a

518
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:27,640
God shaped hole. Part of it is looking for a cause.

519
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,559
Part of it is, you know, people have described all

520
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:32,759
sorts of things to this, but part of it surely

521
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:35,000
stems from the idea that this is an illegitimate nation

522
00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:38,599
to begin with, a nation built on colonialism and plunder

523
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,839
and slavery and smallpox blankets, and therefore the very idea

524
00:27:44,039 --> 00:27:47,119
that it has any right to determine who and who

525
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,480
shall not be here is preposterous. As some of the

526
00:27:50,519 --> 00:27:53,039
Mexican advocates would say, I didn't move the border moved.

527
00:27:53,079 --> 00:27:55,359
The border moved and put me in a different country.

528
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,079
It's all arbitrary. None of these things should really exist

529
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,400
in the first place, so we don't have the moral

530
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:07,240
standing to say somebody is illegal, no human being is illegal. Yeah,

531
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,799
if I'm sure there's an element. You're on the ground there, James.

532
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 4: So you hear what people are saying at Starbucks, you

533
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,400
see what they're saying on the news when they're protesting

534
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,279
and so forth. I'm sure there's an element of the

535
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:22,559
hard left, real hostility towards the nation. It strikes me

536
00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:25,440
if I were trying to be charitable, to put the

537
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,039
most charitable possible construction I could on this, I would

538
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:35,839
say something like, Minnesota is a state heavily settled by

539
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,920
Scandinavians and Germans, and for decade in and decade out,

540
00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:45,160
they were centered in small communities where people went to

541
00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:48,839
church and knew their neighbors. And honestly, this is one

542
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,440
reason why Minnesota has a wealth, used to have a

543
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,240
welfare system, used to be able to pride itself on

544
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:58,640
a welfare system that worked, because there really was a

545
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,079
sense of neighborliness about it. And what is taking place

546
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,359
is when Jacob Fry, who surely knows what he's doing,

547
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:08,880
refers to these immigrants as our neighbors. He is touching

548
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,759
a button and it's a kind of decency button that

549
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,039
a lot of people in Minnesota grew up with, and

550
00:29:16,079 --> 00:29:21,279
they immediately say, wait a minute, neighbors. We pride ourselves

551
00:29:21,599 --> 00:29:24,039
on taking care of our neighbors, on helping each other out.

552
00:29:24,119 --> 00:29:28,519
It's a corruption of a really decent impulse that has

553
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:32,079
deep historical roots in Minnesota, which in some ways makes

554
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:37,119
it even more outrageous. Every word that Charlie uttered is

555
00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:40,920
true and well chosen, and there's not a single member

556
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:47,200
of the administration who's making those arguments at anything like

557
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,160
I am just troubled again and again and again. I'll

558
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,799
say it once and stop saying it, because it's an

559
00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:56,039
observation we've been making for years now when it comes

560
00:29:56,039 --> 00:29:58,759
to Donald Trump and the members of his administration. The

561
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:05,960
inability of the administration to articulate itself even when it

562
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:09,039
is clearly in the right, obviously in the right, even

563
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:12,440
when it is pursuing laws as Charlie pointed out, set

564
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,000
in place systems set in place by Bill Clinton. The

565
00:30:16,519 --> 00:30:21,000
inarticulateness of the administration I find striking again and again

566
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:26,400
and again. With the one reservation, I believe that Tom Holman,

567
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:29,200
now he doesn't put it at the level that Charlie does,

568
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,519
but Tom Holman does make this point, we're here to

569
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,119
enforce the law. He stands on that point again and

570
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,319
again and again. But oh my lord, they have arguments,

571
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,880
as Charlie. Charlie just proved that they're just not making well.

572
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: Rubio made some arguments the other day. Did anybody watch

573
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,519
that went before the Center Foreign Relations Committee. Peter, you

574
00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:55,799
had a gust of something, well.

575
00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, So here I am talking about how

576
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:06,000
inarticulate the Trump administration is, and Marco Rubio is spectacularly articulate,

577
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,160
tough knows his position, is perfectly willing to go up

578
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,519
with people who are former colleagues of his and I

579
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,960
Rubio had had a reputee. I know a couple of

580
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,480
members of the Senate, and Marco Rubio was very well

581
00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:22,480
liked these people off camera. At least these people are friends,

582
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:25,680
even Rand Paul and Marco Rubio and Rand Paul. I'd

583
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,960
like to hear what Charlie makes of this on the law.

584
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,880
But Rand Paul was pushing and pushing and pushing. My

585
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:36,599
inclination is that Rand Paul actually has a very good

586
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,160
point that they're building, that they built much too large

587
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,359
an operation on the slender rationale of a police action,

588
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,599
and that Rand Paul had a better point, had the

589
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,319
better argument, I think than Marco Rubio. But I want

590
00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:50,559
to hear what Charles has to say about that. Even

591
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:55,240
at that Rubio handled himself brilliantly, refusing to concede an

592
00:31:55,359 --> 00:31:58,920
inch to Rand Paul, making the point again and again

593
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,920
and again, that Mudur was illegitimate, that he was a criminal,

594
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,920
that he was a thug, that what we had done

595
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,960
was in the interest of simple decency and hygiene in

596
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:11,519
our own hemisphere. I just thought that it was a

597
00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:13,519
real to it. By the way, I've also over the years,

598
00:32:13,559 --> 00:32:17,480
I've heard people wonder, Honest, I'll just put it. The

599
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,519
people who observe the Senate have wondered from time to

600
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:26,519
time over the years, just how frankly intelligent Marco Rubio is.

601
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,640
He didn't go to Harvard Law School or the University

602
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,799
of Chicago Law School and went to Miami. There's question

603
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:37,440
is Marco Rubio, Mark Rubyo is highly articulate, very shrewd.

604
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:39,880
We are dealing with a very intelligent man here. I

605
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,839
was very impressed.

606
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he drank some water on television.

607
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 6: Well, I was impressed by him too. I think there's

608
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,160
often a difference between who wins debates and who is right.

609
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:58,119
It will not shock you to learn. I suppose that

610
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:00,119
I saw a lot of debates at the AUC for

611
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,559
Jinian in which the side with the better debate is one,

612
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:08,799
even when that side was wrong. I think Marc Rubio

613
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,759
is often right so this isn't a criticism of Marco Rubio,

614
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:16,720
per se. I think in this case it's difficult in

615
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,079
that I am of the view, as I've argued over

616
00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:22,759
and over again, that Congress needs to authorize military action.

617
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,519
I know there are very smart people who disagree with me.

618
00:33:26,799 --> 00:33:29,759
There is a memo I believe it was written by

619
00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:34,200
Bill Barr back in the first Bush administration to justify

620
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,200
the removal of Noriega that is being leaned on by

621
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,079
the Trump administration in this case. Now that doesn't mean

622
00:33:42,079 --> 00:33:44,480
that the memo is correct, but the memo is precedent

623
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:45,640
for now, and.

624
00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 5: It's unlikely that this is justiciable.

625
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 6: That is to say, the Supreme Court's not going to

626
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,400
get involved and determine what the federal government can and

627
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,519
can't do. So ultimately this becomes a political question. I'm

628
00:33:56,559 --> 00:34:01,079
more on Ranpaul's side than Marco Rubio's. But while I

629
00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:04,960
one hundred percent agree with what you said, Peter about

630
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,239
the Trump administration being representing its own case even when

631
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,119
its case is strong, that doesn't seem true. Have applied

632
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:15,400
to Mark Rubio in this instance. He's about as good

633
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,480
and advocate as I've.

634
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 5: Seen in American politics. Recently.

635
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,119
Speaker 4: Ever, Yeah, well I go back a little farther than

636
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:24,480
you do, Charlie, although please don't remind me of that.

637
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:26,360
I would say he's as good as i've seen. Ever.

638
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:31,639
Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that came up, one of

639
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,800
the issues is and I love this because if I

640
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,280
can remember the sequence right, it was Greenland, Venezuela, Cuba,

641
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,440
or was it Cuba Venezuela. Because it's been a busy year.

642
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,519
We dispensed with the Greena situation. I guess we dispensed

643
00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:51,360
with asit Venezuelan situation that's out the table, and now

644
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,719
a nation turns its lonely eyes to Cuba, Cuba, and

645
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,400
we're being told that we should have regime changed there

646
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,480
by the end of the year, which I end is

647
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:02,679
one of those things that makes you sit up, take

648
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,519
notice and think, well, how would that happen? What would

649
00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:09,000
it look like? If indeed there's some sort of benevelment

650
00:35:09,079 --> 00:35:14,199
that keeps Iran from shipping as much as they'd like,

651
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,639
the Venezuelan oil no longer comes, Russian oil doesn't get there,

652
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,320
why the Cuban economy might collapse, you know, as if

653
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,480
it's this sort of robust thing striding the island in

654
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,840
the first place. Do you think this is likely? It's

655
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:32,039
have we gone from the government policy of ah, yeah,

656
00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:33,760
we'd like to see him gone, But you know, what

657
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,920
are you gonna do to actually trying to do something.

658
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,679
As somebody said to me the other day, you know,

659
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,440
if China invades Taiwan, we're going to take Cubea. The

660
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,800
next day, I thought that was interesting. What do you

661
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,599
think of the cuber situation, Charlie Well.

662
00:35:49,679 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 6: I also liked Marca Ruvia's answer on this, which was

663
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,960
that while it might not be the role of the

664
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:59,280
United States to take out the Cuban regime, it would

665
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,880
be good for the United States if the Cuban regime

666
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,039
were gone, because it is a force for evil within

667
00:36:06,199 --> 00:36:10,039
Cuba and within the rest of the world. Of course,

668
00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:13,519
he said it with all of the righteous indignation you'd

669
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:15,800
expect from somebody who is Cuba.

670
00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 5: It parents game from Cuba.

671
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 6: I suspect that we will not take overt actions in

672
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:27,760
the way we did in Venezuela, but I would be

673
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,639
shocked if we were not behind the scenes doing everything

674
00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:35,159
that we can. Also, the action we took in Venezuela

675
00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:37,920
and the pressure we're putting on venezuela is as far

676
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,599
as I understand it related to Cuba, because Cuba relies

677
00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:45,880
heavily on venezuela, especially for energy, and as we're seeing

678
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,519
in Iran in a completely different circumstance, when you do

679
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:54,000
have internal economic pressure, that makes the likelihood of overthrowing

680
00:36:54,039 --> 00:36:58,400
the government higher, although it doesn't necessarily guarantee it. So

681
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:02,639
I think Arka Rubio is a fascinating person. Obviously, he

682
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,760
was my senator for a while here in Florida. He's

683
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,079
been in politics for a long time. We resented career politicians,

684
00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:10,960
but he's a career politician who has learned his trade

685
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,360
and bided his time. He has, in some respects been

686
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,760
a chameleon. In others he's had a core set of

687
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,000
beliefs he's stuck to. He has managed to weather the

688
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,760
Trump administration better than pretty much anyone else, maybe the

689
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,760
Trump years better than anyone else. He was little Marco

690
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,320
and he was beaten round me in twenty sixteen. Then

691
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,920
he didn't run for president again, but he somehow got

692
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,239
himself into a position within the presidency where he holds a.

693
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:40,119
Speaker 5: Whole lot of power, wears a whole lot of hats

694
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:43,480
and is advancing his agenda. So did he really lose?

695
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: It's one of the better memes that's out there is

696
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,559
Rubio is sitting there looking a bit downcast, hands folded,

697
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:52,119
and people have been photoshopping and draping anything around him

698
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,719
with it. Then Isuel and army clothes, you know, Muller clothes.

699
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,840
I just just asserted how many things that he has

700
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,239
on his plate and how many things that he has

701
00:37:59,280 --> 00:37:59,559
to do.

702
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,159
Speaker 4: Here's the way it works. Here's the way it works.

703
00:38:02,199 --> 00:38:04,760
I'm told he goes to the State Department for an

704
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,440
hour or two hours at the most each morning, and

705
00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:09,320
then goes to the West wing of the White House,

706
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,920
which is where he spends the rest of the day.

707
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:14,840
Nearly every day. He is right there, right and nobody

708
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,440
has behaved. Nobody has had that large a brief since

709
00:38:17,639 --> 00:38:23,239
Henry Kissinger on Cuba. Could I just add one note?

710
00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:29,199
My wife is Cuban. I know these people, I have

711
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,599
know many Cubans. Let's put it that way. Here's my

712
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:36,320
one note, just for all our listeners. James probably is

713
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,000
already well aware of this movie. You may be as well, Charlie.

714
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,000
On somewhere online it's available maybe YouTube, maybe on Netflix,

715
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,119
watch Our Man in Havana. Our Man in Havana. It

716
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,679
was filmed in nineteen fifty nine. It's a wonderful dark comedy.

717
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,000
It's slightly anti American. It's based on Graham Green, but

718
00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:00,159
the lead is played by Alec Guinness Noel Coward. It's

719
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:05,119
British production. Noel Coward plays a role Ernie Kovac's Its brilliant,

720
00:39:05,199 --> 00:39:10,320
fast moving, hilarious, witty dialogue. But here's the point. It

721
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,320
was shot very largely on location in Havana, just a

722
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,320
few months before the revolution, just a few months before

723
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,199
Feel came down from the Sierra Maestra mountains and took over.

724
00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:26,119
And so what you will see in the background is

725
00:39:26,159 --> 00:39:30,480
Havana as it actually looked in nineteen fifty nine. And

726
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:34,000
people are well dressed, there is traffic in the streets.

727
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:40,559
It is a bustling, beautiful city. So watch that and

728
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:44,400
then go click around. Look at Havana today on Google

729
00:39:44,559 --> 00:39:49,800
and click under images and just look. Those buildings are

730
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,039
still there. They're in a state of total decay. Many

731
00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:56,960
of the same vehicles, the same vehicles, the same vehicles

732
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,800
are still on the streets, but of course they've been

733
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:05,159
patched together and I mean the failure is total.

734
00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: It's a it's a what you do, what you do

735
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:11,440
with the I mean, I mean what you do to.

736
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 4: The difficulty in thinking about the future of Cuba, not

737
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,039
that any of this can is in Super Bowl, is

738
00:40:21,079 --> 00:40:25,079
that some people have been there suffering for seven decades now,

739
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,880
and there are going to be tensions between those people

740
00:40:29,519 --> 00:40:31,599
and the ones who got to this country and have

741
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,480
done extremely well. Uh So that's going to be kind

742
00:40:36,519 --> 00:40:40,519
of a problem. But if the government changes there, I'm

743
00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:43,719
told that all over Havana there are banks, there are

744
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,880
contracts and safety posit boxes. The Cubans have written day

745
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,880
X is the day the government decisively falls, and X

746
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,519
plus ten. There's going to be ferry service introduced from

747
00:40:55,559 --> 00:40:58,960
Miami to Havana. The Cubans, the Cuban community in Miami

748
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:06,159
has the investment running ready to go. It could happen very, very,

749
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,199
very fast. The question is exactly how, what's the mechanism,

750
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,239
but that it is rotten and disgusting. Anybody can watch

751
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,119
that by anybody can see that for himself by looking

752
00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:21,840
at a wonderful old movie and then comparing the background

753
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,679
shots in that movie with Havana today.

754
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,159
Speaker 1: Yes, and if the people, if they come back from

755
00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:30,639
Miami on the ferry ten days afterwards, reclaim their old property,

756
00:41:30,679 --> 00:41:33,920
they will be regarded as Yankee colonialists who are bringing

757
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,960
Calaby run back to right, as opposed to the people

758
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,679
in the Palestinian camps who have an eternal right to

759
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,519
this house in this olive grove. That those people would

760
00:41:43,559 --> 00:41:46,199
just be going home after the nackbar Peter. It's great,

761
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,599
it's wonderful to look at that old architecture, in those

762
00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:51,440
great old cars. But of course Batista, you know, Batista,

763
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,280
secret police, inequity, all of these things, every single scread

764
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,519
of beauty that you see of civilization there had to

765
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:01,679
be sacrificed in order to down the horrible thing and

766
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,920
institute equity, and they did. Everybody is equally miserable. It's

767
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,119
the same with Iran. The United States has absolutely no

768
00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:11,519
standing whatsoever to criticize what happened because of most of

769
00:42:11,519 --> 00:42:13,480
the day fifty three. You know, we had our hands

770
00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:16,920
in that, and so you know we're eternally tainted for that.

771
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,000
But the fact is is that if you don't get

772
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,960
Iran during the Shaw's reign, and yes, he was fantastically

773
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,519
corrupt and indifferent and a bad leader and all the

774
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:26,800
rest of those things, and screwed the poach and did

775
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,400
a Nicholas the second And I mean, yeah, right, I

776
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,840
get it. But women had the rights that they don't

777
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,719
have now. Women were able to walk around in Western attire.

778
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,239
The cities, even though teh Ran was sort of faphazidly

779
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,280
built and you know, may have had the street grid

780
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,159
of a Roman you know, of Rome in two thousand

781
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,400
BC there are two hundred BC, it still was a

782
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:53,440
fairly enlightened place, proud center of Persian culture. And apparently

783
00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:56,079
they had to sacrifice all of that because of the

784
00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:58,480
sins of the Shaw, because of Western alignment. I mean,

785
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,760
that's sometimes I think how they think about it, is

786
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,679
it when they look at what was lost, they say, yeah,

787
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:08,119
but it wasn't perfect, right, nothing ever is. And the

788
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,880
best that you incrementally work on what you've got then

789
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,519
to do the wonderful, magical, romantic, heart pounding work of

790
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,119
revolution and raise the red banners and storm the barricades

791
00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:21,760
and the rest of it, and build a new world

792
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,599
from ground zero, because it never works. There's one that's worked,

793
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,440
that's here, and we weren't starting from ground zero. We

794
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,000
weren't rewriting human nature, weren't. We were gathering up everything

795
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:34,119
we'd learned from Britain and the Enlightenment and the rest

796
00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:35,760
of it, and we did a pretty damn good job

797
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,199
of it. And everybody else seems to have forgotten the

798
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,400
lessons of that. But I'd like to see it. I

799
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,000
would love to go to Havana some day, but it

800
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:45,639
can take an awful long time to go back there

801
00:43:45,679 --> 00:43:49,239
and fix everything up, because it's all falling apart. FED

802
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,280
chair Kevin Walsh worsh sounds like one of those things

803
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,440
you like. His name is Wash, but you've got a

804
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:02,199
peculiar mid Atlantic accidenth Kevin Walsh nominated to share the FED.

805
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,400
I know nothing about this except that they meet in

806
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:10,320
secret and make arcane pronouncements that make numbers go up

807
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,320
and down. I don't know where we are at the

808
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,079
rate right now, whether it needs to go up or

809
00:44:15,079 --> 00:44:18,480
go down. I read what I read, my eyes crossed,

810
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:23,639
I saw, but Peter, you interviewed him last year. Tell

811
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:24,760
us what this guy's all about.

812
00:44:25,199 --> 00:44:29,079
Speaker 4: More than that, Kevin and I are old friends, so

813
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,440
I don't want to. Kevin is extremely intelligent, and everybody

814
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,440
who's an economist tells me that he really does know

815
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:41,159
his economics. He is, Charlie. This to go back to

816
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:46,119
what we were talking about, this the inarticulousy of the administration.

817
00:44:47,159 --> 00:44:49,119
As Chairman of the FED, he will not strictly be

818
00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:52,199
a member of the administration. But Kevin is wonderfully articulate.

819
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,679
As I just reposted the interview that I did with him,

820
00:44:54,679 --> 00:44:57,480
and I guess it was just about last spring, six

821
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,159
months or so ago, now that he's been nominated the

822
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:05,800
FED chairmanship. Kevin's view, I'm not putting words in his

823
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,480
mouth here. This is in that interview. Kevin's view is

824
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:15,440
that the quantitative easing went too far and lasted too long,

825
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:18,679
and that the and that it was used to underwrite

826
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,199
vast expansions of federal spending under the Biden administration, and

827
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,519
that it is time to reduce slowly, carefully, but to

828
00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:30,440
become very very serious about reducing the Fed's balance sheet,

829
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:33,280
much of which has happened under Jerome Powell. But more,

830
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:42,079
Kevin is also extremely upbeat, optimistic about the economy. His

831
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,159
view is that the Big Beautiful Bill and contained not

832
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,920
widely not headline, but if you read the Big Beautiful Bill,

833
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,679
there are provisions there that cut taxes on corporations in

834
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:01,039
way that make investment much easier, and so he was

835
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:04,280
generally speaking. So I guess I think I can say

836
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,800
this without being accused of putting words in Kevin's mouth.

837
00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:12,280
But at the sort of the high level, his view

838
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:13,840
is that we need to get out of the way,

839
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:20,920
constrain government spending, return the FED to a much more

840
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,280
limited role in the banking system, and that the American

841
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,880
economy is not sick, it's recovering nicely from the disruptions

842
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,920
of COVID, and that we really are on the cusp

843
00:46:34,079 --> 00:46:38,840
of serious growth. That's as I understand Kevin's views.

844
00:46:40,159 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 1: Will we be able to see this interview through a link?

845
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,639
Speaker 4: It's up, it's up, it's up. You can I linked

846
00:46:45,639 --> 00:46:49,039
to it again this morning on x OH fantastic.

847
00:46:53,559 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: Well, gentlemen, before we head out here, some interesting things

848
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,880
that we might want to discuss. Two related stories we're

849
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,800
learning today out of Geneva that the UN chief has

850
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,599
told member states, and I'm quoting here from Reuters, that

851
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,360
the UN is at risk of quote imminent financial collapse,

852
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,400
and he's citing unpaid fees and a strange budget rule.

853
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,679
He's reportedly spoken about the organization's work worsening liquidity crisis,

854
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,400
but this is the starkest warning yet that the UN

855
00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:23,400
financially may collapse. In related news, scientists at MIT have

856
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:29,039
managed to construct a violin out of two atoms, and

857
00:47:29,119 --> 00:47:32,119
I think that's going to be very, very handy to

858
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,320
to to use when we serenade our sadness about this

859
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,039
story about the UN? Is the UN relevant? Is the

860
00:47:38,119 --> 00:47:40,679
UN necessary? If the UN goes away, what do we

861
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,559
do do we have a World Council of Peace with

862
00:47:42,679 --> 00:47:46,039
an emblem that just shows the northern the western hemisphere,

863
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:49,840
what do we do? Do we empty out the UN

864
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,679
and turn it into condos? And I'd like to think,

865
00:47:52,519 --> 00:47:55,480
given the way it sits, the you know, the morning

866
00:47:55,559 --> 00:47:57,599
light and that is going to be beautiful, but it's

867
00:47:57,599 --> 00:48:00,039
probably getting it really hot around eleven o'clock or so

868
00:48:00,039 --> 00:48:03,760
you'd have to bring the windows down. Whither the UN, gentlemen.

869
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 6: I loathe the UN. I think it is pointless and

870
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:13,559
should be disbanded. It is a relic in that it

871
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:19,280
is full of privileged members whose privileged status was the

872
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,599
product of their having been on the right side at

873
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:24,960
the end of World War two, not always at the

874
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:30,079
beginning of World War two Russia and not of much

875
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:36,599
else besides. And it's also full of countries that are

876
00:48:36,679 --> 00:48:39,400
worse than the United States. It's almost all of them are.

877
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,079
And if you have a representative body that is full

878
00:48:42,119 --> 00:48:46,880
of terrible countries or people, that representative body is going

879
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,800
to be malicious.

880
00:48:49,199 --> 00:48:51,119
Speaker 5: And it's full of.

881
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 6: Institutions like the Institution for the Advancement of Women that

882
00:48:57,039 --> 00:49:02,400
are run by Iran or Saudi. I would get rid

883
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:08,760
of it. But I want to emphatically draw a distinction

884
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,320
between the UN and NATO. I think NATO is a

885
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,199
terrific organization. I don't think it has outlived its usefulness,

886
00:49:18,119 --> 00:49:21,119
and I think that it ought to be sustained. I

887
00:49:21,159 --> 00:49:23,960
agree with President Trump that its members ought to pay

888
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,239
more for their own defense and probably criticize America less

889
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:32,639
while benefiting from American military lodges. But UN bad NATO good,

890
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:33,360
is my take.

891
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 4: Well done, Charlie. I would also abolish the UN if

892
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,559
I could. It strikes me as a lot of trouble,

893
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,239
and so second choice would be ignore it, which the

894
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,320
Trump administration is doing a pretty good job of. I think,

895
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,599
just ignore the damn thing up. If they're hard up.

896
00:49:52,039 --> 00:49:56,360
Let them be hard up. NATO has not outlived its usefulness.

897
00:49:56,679 --> 00:49:58,440
What is its usefulness now, Charlie.

898
00:49:59,079 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 6: I think that if you're going to have an alliance

899
00:50:03,159 --> 00:50:07,880
of nations that are better than all the others, and

900
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,400
if you're going to use that alliance as a block

901
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:16,119
against Russia to lesser extent and increasingly China and its

902
00:50:16,119 --> 00:50:20,719
sphere of influence, then you're going to have to have

903
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,480
some sort of organization that manages it. And while I

904
00:50:24,519 --> 00:50:27,360
agree with some of the smaller criticisms of NATO, I

905
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,280
think whatever you end up with is going to look

906
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:36,519
a little bit like NATO, with an agreement to guarantee

907
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:41,440
one another's security, with an ability to speak as one voice,

908
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:47,360
and with an arrangement that is backstopped by the American military,

909
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:52,840
which has its tendrils out into various other countries that

910
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,280
are close, relatively speaking to.

911
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:56,079
Speaker 5: The United States.

912
00:50:56,079 --> 00:50:59,199
Speaker 6: So, you know, while I'm open to reform, I think

913
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:05,039
that the basic logic underneath NATO is still sound.

914
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 4: And how do you so? Irving Crystal. Irving Crystal published

915
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,079
an essay in The New York Times in nineteen eighty

916
00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:17,039
three predicting that European dependence on the United States would

917
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:20,880
infantilize Europe. He didn't use that word, but that was

918
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,920
the argument. And then who's this man who's the former

919
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,480
head of mi I six. I can't remember his name.

920
00:51:28,519 --> 00:51:30,719
I thought you might as a proper Englishman. He's an

921
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,840
establishment figure. But he said during an interview just last year,

922
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,639
yes twenty twenty five, that NATO had infantilized Western Europe,

923
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,280
that they had lost the ability to think clearly and

924
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:46,079
engage in uses of hard power. Hard power was his phrase.

925
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:48,000
So how do you so is that?

926
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:50,079
Speaker 2: Is?

927
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 4: That? Is that fundamental to NATO? Do we simply pay

928
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,119
that price that we're in charge and everybody else suffers

929
00:51:56,119 --> 00:52:00,800
some dependency? Or if they kick up their spend and

930
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,960
actually produce real militaries and the Germans are now sending

931
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:11,000
troops to Lithuania, Can we want allies not vassals?

932
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 5: Do we?

933
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 6: I asked that, because no, I asked that quite seriously,

934
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:21,559
in that I would prefer if Europe were not infantilized.

935
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:24,559
I prefer of Europe were able to defend itself. I

936
00:52:24,679 --> 00:52:28,440
prefer of Europe didn't have a thousand year history of

937
00:52:28,639 --> 00:52:32,559
interonisan warfare. But I will borrow this from rich Larry

938
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:35,679
who said this recently, and I largely agree. If you

939
00:52:36,679 --> 00:52:40,119
told any great nation in the history of the world,

940
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:43,920
all right, here's the deal. You get to be the

941
00:52:44,039 --> 00:52:47,159
richest and most powerful nation in the world, and you

942
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:53,199
also get to effectively control an infantilized Europe, they would

943
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,000
have said, Wow, that's fantastic. I mean, hundreds and hundreds

944
00:52:57,039 --> 00:53:02,159
of years of European history are marked by one country

945
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,960
or another hoping to dominate the continent. It tended to

946
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:11,039
end in a horrible conflict well after nineteen forty five

947
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:11,880
the Americans.

948
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 5: But yeah, we kind of are in charge now. We

949
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:15,960
should be thrilled by that.

950
00:53:16,639 --> 00:53:20,679
Speaker 6: So if the alternative of them not being infantilized is

951
00:53:20,679 --> 00:53:24,000
not on the table, which unfortunately it's not, I think

952
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,840
this is the next best option. It's fantastic for the

953
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,039
United States that we can put our troops wherever we want,

954
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:35,000
that we can count on these other relatively rich nations,

955
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,480
albeit not to do exactly what we want, but to

956
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:41,199
do mostly what we want. I don't think we can

957
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:45,559
improve on that other than to have proper allies in

958
00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:47,159
the way you describe, which I agree.

959
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,639
Speaker 1: Would be preferable, except that eventually you end up with

960
00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:52,559
a thirty five year old single guy living in the

961
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:55,360
sofa in his parents' basement, which is what seems to

962
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,000
be at the end of all this. And I would prefer,

963
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,199
for the sake of Western civilization and itsntinuance, that they

964
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:05,360
actually have more national grit fiber character muscled than they

965
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:06,920
seem to be having now. Now there's just a lot

966
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,360
of fumes of self regard and empty statements because they

967
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,280
can't back up what they do with force. Well, we

968
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,360
live in a post we live in a post force world,

969
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,519
don't we wishould not, shouldn't be settling things by forces?

970
00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:20,599
And absolutely ourchare concept we're beyond that. It's twenty first century.

971
00:54:20,639 --> 00:54:23,559
No human nature hasn't changed, and the iron laws that

972
00:54:23,599 --> 00:54:27,480
governed international relations haven't either. So if they if they

973
00:54:27,559 --> 00:54:30,360
equip themselves more for their defense, that's great. There's only

974
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:31,679
one direction that's pointed.

975
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 5: In, though I'm not sure that's sure.

976
00:54:34,159 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: Well, there is the new German tank production going to

977
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:43,000
be used to, you know, to roll into China when they're.

978
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 5: When when they have the direction.

979
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 6: I agree with you they're fantalized, but I don't think

980
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,559
the trend is to it endless infantalization.

981
00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 5: Producing Eastern Europe.

982
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 6: Is arming itself and spending more on its defense. Trump

983
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,239
has made headway in this area.

984
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 1: Have no I agree. What what I'm saying, though, is

985
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,480
that all of these self defense mechanisms are pointed in

986
00:55:04,519 --> 00:55:07,159
one direction. They're all in response to the existence of

987
00:55:07,159 --> 00:55:07,880
the Russian threat.

988
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:08,159
Speaker 4: Right.

989
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 1: The United States has this vast military apparatus that can

990
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,360
project power at any corner of the globe, which is different,

991
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,079
which means will still be on top. But again, yeah,

992
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:18,400
we would like them to be strong. I read stories

993
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,119
of the Royal Navy in its condition, and you want

994
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:25,760
to weep. The nation that held Trafalgar is a great

995
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,239
emblem of national spirit. Can't get a ship out of

996
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,159
the dry dock, and the Silent Service is sitting there

997
00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:32,239
with its you know, with its wires rotting. It's it's

998
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,639
it's dreadful. On the other hand, as we always say,

999
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,719
you know, if there's one thing that we really need

1000
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,800
more of, its German remilitarization. You just realized how things

1001
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,079
have changed. If things have changed, I mean the friendship to.

1002
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:46,679
Speaker 5: Do it as well. I mean, if you told my

1003
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,519
grandfather that he was and say.

1004
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 1: Italy, Italy, can you get some guys marching in proper

1005
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,960
lockstep down there. For heaven's sakes, I know, I know.

1006
00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:59,119
The more things change, nothing new under the sun, except well, no,

1007
00:55:59,159 --> 00:56:00,840
this isn't new either. I have to remind you the

1008
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,800
Ricochet members do get together in person, in human in

1009
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,880
places where you can actually see each other and laugh

1010
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,320
and talk and hoist classes. Got a couple coming up

1011
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,480
in February. One group are in talks about a meeting

1012
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,519
at in the Detroit area after a Hillsdale College visit,

1013
00:56:13,519 --> 00:56:16,519
and there'll be another media of Florida Space Coast. That's

1014
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:19,800
February sixth, like six to the eighth this year. So

1015
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,360
go to ricochet dot com slash events and you will

1016
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,239
find out where people are meeting in your neighborhood. And

1017
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,239
if there isn't anything in your neighborhood, why don't you

1018
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,800
host him. That's a great thing. They'll show up, they'll

1019
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,280
bring tater tans. And if you think I really want

1020
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,159
to sit around and talk about politics, I experience of

1021
00:56:37,159 --> 00:56:39,440
every Ricochet meet up I've ben we talk about everything,

1022
00:56:39,639 --> 00:56:42,239
but there's a certain like minded nature to it. But

1023
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,400
we talk about everything in the world. And then I

1024
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,920
would ask you also to Peter, am I gonna how

1025
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,559
many stars do I want people to give this podcast? Four? Five?

1026
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,039
Speaker 4: Wait? How many stars are there?

1027
00:56:57,679 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: How many? Now we know whether not Peter was listening

1028
00:57:00,679 --> 00:57:02,239
or had just checked out by the time I got

1029
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,639
to every podcast and told people five.

1030
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 4: I have heard this once or twice. I have discovered,

1031
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,159
by the way my children explain this to me, that

1032
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,000
in any five star system, the only star that counts

1033
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,639
is the fifth star. Everybody assumes that the four stars

1034
00:57:16,679 --> 00:57:18,719
are going to be filled in. So it's important not

1035
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,679
only to fill in five stars, but to fill in

1036
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:23,599
every arm of that fifth star.

1037
00:57:24,719 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: All five, all five.

1038
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 4: With an exclamation point.

1039
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: All I know is that I've been looking for household appliances.

1040
00:57:29,559 --> 00:57:31,119
I go to Amazon and I look for the one

1041
00:57:31,159 --> 00:57:35,239
star reviews because they're the most informative. Yes, how does

1042
00:57:35,239 --> 00:57:38,320
this toaster perform? And there's seven hundred and forty three

1043
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,360
paid you know, a real person who bought this, but

1044
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,079
is actually probably just a digital robotic figure tapping you know,

1045
00:57:45,079 --> 00:57:47,679
a screen somewhere in Shanghai, And when you get down

1046
00:57:47,679 --> 00:57:49,280
to the one percent is where you find the word

1047
00:57:49,559 --> 00:57:54,880
fire in every single view of the toaster. My favorite

1048
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,320
being doesen't toast, and you know when you're a toaster

1049
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,440
and toasting is the entirety of your raise. Old debts

1050
00:58:01,519 --> 00:58:04,480
or a dozen toast is a pretty good one star review.

1051
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,960
But we hope we fulfilled your expectations, folks, and we

1052
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:08,880
deserve those five stars we'd like you to give us.

1053
00:58:09,079 --> 00:58:11,000
We would also like you to go to ricochet dot

1054
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,039
com itself and take a look, because there you will

1055
00:58:13,039 --> 00:58:15,679
see if you haven't already, the member site. Yeah, you

1056
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,719
got to pick a couple of you know, Lira, Denari

1057
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,320
whatever to get to it, but it's worth it because

1058
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,199
when you remember, that means you can comment, which keeps

1059
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,440
Ricochet from being like the cess pools of iniquity and

1060
00:58:27,559 --> 00:58:31,320
screaming and miserable old curmudgeons in their basement pounding out

1061
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,599
stuff on a Cheeto's dame check you know. Uh no,

1062
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:37,599
no that's not us. So go there, give it a try,

1063
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:39,800
and Peter, we hope you will have you back soon.

1064
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 4: I just figured out what Charlie reminds me of. Charlie

1065
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,719
reminds me of the Dalmatian emperors.

1066
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 7: In the elite, in the in the level empire goes

1067
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,679
about seas, these these these caesars, these emperors would come

1068
00:58:53,719 --> 00:58:56,119
from the outskirts of empire and show up and roam

1069
00:58:56,159 --> 00:58:58,599
and say, boys, boys, you've all become a feminis.

1070
00:58:58,679 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: We've got an empire to run in here.

1071
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 5: I'll take it.

1072
00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:05,199
Speaker 1: What emperor would you like to be, Peter?

1073
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:10,079
Speaker 4: What emperor would I like to be? Oh? I thought

1074
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:11,800
Augustus had it pretty well, pretty good.

1075
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: That's what I would figure to it. Yeah, exactly, that's right. Half.

1076
00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 4: Essentially, let's let's Caesar set up the empire, he gets knifed,

1077
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,320
and then Augustus comes along and runs it. That seems

1078
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:22,000
like a good job.

1079
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: Dies in bed, did did I perform my part in

1080
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,639
the play? Well? Yes, I think that he did. And

1081
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:29,360
I like the Roman empire itself.

1082
00:59:29,679 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 2: Oh.

1083
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: I was going to say we end, but then again,

1084
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:32,920
the you know, they did split off and have another

1085
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,480
thousand years in Constantinople. Yes, I'm still calling it that

1086
00:59:36,639 --> 00:59:40,039
because I'm still mad about that. But that's another podcast.

1087
00:59:40,239 --> 00:59:42,119
Thank you for listening. Everybody will see you in the comments.

1088
00:59:42,159 --> 00:59:46,800
At Ricochet four point whatever, by bye bye bye.

1089
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,559
Speaker 4: Ricochet. Join the conversation