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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

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where we left off with the Captain from MCC and

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his interview with the OIG inspectors. Question is there any

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other secure housing unit within the MCC? Answer? There is

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only one secured housing unit. That's the shoe question. Okay,

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not he gets caught off by the captain. But however,

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we do have ten South and ten South is for

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I believe those are for the SALM inmates, and those

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inmates are under a specialized monitoring which comes from I

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believe it's from the Attorney General. I believe I can't

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remember who the person is that's over it, but I

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believe that it was the Attorney General or whoever makes

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that determination for those SAM inmates. Question Okay, and what

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does SAM stand for? Answer? I believe I can't rememberes. Okay,

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But is it like sa MS? Answer? That's correct? Question okay,

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like an acronym. Answer it's an acronym. Question okay, And

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that is not made by anyone at the MCC. That's

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made by the Attorney General. Answer yeah, question all right?

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Was there any discussion of placing Epstein in one of

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those units. Answer no. Question could he have been placed

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in one of those units? Answer I'm sure he could have.

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Question but I mean by executive staff or would they

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have to have made a call to he gets cut off.

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Answer I believe they would have had to make special

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concessions for the inmate. Answer okay. Question they would have

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to you know, vetom and someone would have to approve it.

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I believe outside the executive staff at MCC Question okay,

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and then that's where I meant by is the executive

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staff able to independently answer no, we are not. Question okay.

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Were there are many inmates housed within ten South at

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the time? Answer no. I believe at the time, we

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may have had a total of four to five. Of course,

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you know, we had the notorious Joaquin Guzman up there,

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El Chapo. We also had the apple Puff Phenetic was

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up there. We also had inmate it starts with an S.

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I can't remember his name, but basically, these are inmates

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that have made crimes against the United States, which it

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was deemed that those inmates would be in that special

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management unit and they couldn't of course go to the

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general population. Question was this like a terrorist type of people. Answer,

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I would say some of them are terrorists. You know.

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Of course we had Joaquin Guzman was up there, the

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terrorist kingpin, drug kingpin. He couldn't go on a general

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population unit. Answer sure, question he would go Normally, guys

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like that would be in a place where I come

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from before. You know, he would be at ADX. I

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believe that a pop I think that was his name,

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a Popov or a Popov. These guys had made terrorist

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threats against the United States, or there were guys up

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there that had material or that was found in cooperation

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with outside agencies that were trying to detriment of indiscernible

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and cause harm to the United States. These kinds of guys,

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they were the ones that were put in the unit.

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Answer sure, question. Guys you wouldn't want in general population

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because of their recruitment, their value, or their radical ability

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that they could be able to have recruitment value for

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you know, for other inmates and general population. You don't

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want those guys in there. Answer yeah, question, But Jeffrey Epstein,

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you know he's a multi billionaire. Question sure Now, as

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far as ten South, is that one inmate percel? Answer yeah,

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question And video monitored at all times. Answer yes. Question okay,

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so it's like you're a maximum security. Answer that type

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would be the highest security that an inmate at MCC

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could be placed in question okay, answer yeah, could be

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placed in yeah. Question, but the executive team never discussed

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that answer no question okay. Redacted Advice that Epstein preferred

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not to have a cell mate and engaged in manipulative

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behavior to avoid having one. What type of behavior? Answer?

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I believe that Epstein, and when I first came in,

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he was doing self manipulative behavior. You know, he was

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showing passive resistant activity as far as you know, when

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they're taking meals, or wouldn't listen to staff, as far

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as when they're giving him direction. You know, he would

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sit in his cell and he wouldn't talk. I believe

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he wasn't taking meals. At one point, he was refusing

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to take showers, things of that nature. Question and the

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sentence continues, including requesting to see a psychologist. Answer yeah,

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question is that part of it? Answer? Yeah? Question okay,

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did he say why he wanted to see a psychologist? Answer?

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I don't know. Question No answer, I remember that, no question. Sure.

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At Epstein's request, he was interviewed by a psychologist. Do

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you know who he made that request to? Would it

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have been shoe staff? Answer? He probably would have made

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those requests to any of the staff that may have

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been monitoring him at the time, because if he was

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placed on psychological observation at the time psychological observation, you

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would have had to have staff person that sat there

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and monitored the inmate. Another inmate couldn't have monitored him.

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Question Okay, and that is is that like twenty four

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to seven answer? That would have been twenty four hours

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of that seven days a week question. So a staff

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member would just sit there and watch answer correct question,

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communicate with him or no answer? Yeah, of course? Question okay? Answer.

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I mean that's you know, encouraged even though the inmate's

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placed in that situation. Again, we're talking about humanity here.

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Question uh huh. Answer. You know, you want to gage

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this guy's mental acuity, meaning that the inmate. You want

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to know how he's feeling, how he's doing. Answer sure,

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question is he improving or is he declining? Because if

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he's declining and you can actually see it, you want

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to contact somebody. You know, if this guy is in

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there being very very you know, belligerent, he's being passive

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aggressive or active resistant, or displaying signs of violence. You

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want to make sure you notify someone. You're not going

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to just sit there and allow this guy to do

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self harm to himself and or staff when they come

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to the door to provide his services, you know, such

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as taking him to shower, providing his meals, providing his medication,

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or whatever it is. So you just don't want to

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sit there and allow this inmate just you know, if

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he's going to be detrimentally, could be harmed to staff

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or himself, you want to ensure that you notify someone. Answer, okay. So,

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following that assessment, Epstein was initially placed on suicide watch.

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He was later interviewed again and downgraded to psychological observation.

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Now just for the suicide watch and psychological observation where

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they located. Answer, they would be conducted downstairs on the

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second floor in the health services area. Question and that's

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outside of the shoe correct answer, That is correct question,

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And that was prior to any attempt on his life

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or anything like that. Answer, That is correct? Question? Okay?

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Was that after some time he was returned to the

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shoe redacted began hearing talk that Epstein was trying to

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get back on suicide watch. Information like this is usually

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generated from rounds, kites and kites or notes correct answer,

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correct question, and notes from inmates specifically correct answer. It

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could be yes, that would be inmate correspondence question yeah,

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and monitoring phone calls and letters answer correct question. So

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the hearing of talk, that's all based on inmate talk.

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Answer that would have been all that staff question. Okay,

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staff as well answer. You know, staffing sitting there and

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you know, especially when he's on suicide watch, staff are

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taking notes. So it's every fifteen minutes, you know. Staff, Oh,

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I'm sorry, every thirty minutes, I believe, I can't remember,

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it's been a while, but you know, a staff member

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it's every thirty minutes, I believe, is taking a log

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of what the inmate is doing inside of his cell,

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so you know what he is doing. The inmate is

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facing to the right, the inmate is facing away from

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the staff. The inmate is, you know, doing what or

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he makes statements. Those statements will be written in the log.

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Question Okay, it says honor. About July twenty third, twenty nineteen,

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Epstein was found on a responsive on the floor of

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his cell with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest.

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When you say a homemade piece of fabric, can you

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explain that a little bit? Answer? Okay, basically, a homemade

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piece of fabric. It could be anything, because it's out

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of the special housing unit. That's what we're talking about, right,

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Answer yeah, I mean I'm talking about specifically in this instance.

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Do you know what is meant by found on the

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floor with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest?

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Answer it could have been fragments from a T shirt.

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It could have been fragments from sheets. It could have

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been fragments of cloth. He gets interrupted that they could

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tie together. Answer it was tied together, you know, indiscernible

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to make the type of homemade fashioned. He gets cut

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off by the investigator. Question did you see it at

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all though yourself? Answer? I can't remember? Question okay, sure.

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Epstein's cell mate had flagged the attention of a staff member,

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who handcuffed the cell mate and removed Epstein to bring

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him to the medical unit. Do you recall at that

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time who is cell mate was? Answer Tartaglione. Question okay, great,

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and did you all right, we talk about him in

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a little bit. Redacted her from the staff that Epstein

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may have been faking on consciousness. Do you know who

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told you that? Answer? Well, basically in memorandum. I remember

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when it was reported to me and I made my report.

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I believe it was in the report of the incident

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by redacted question okay? Answer? And I believe that she

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had put out an email which concluded that the inmate

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was showing manipulative behavior through his statements and what was

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observed by medical staff question okay. Answer. So basically they

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were saying that the incident didn't occur, as the inmate

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may have tried to make it look like or occur.

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Question okay. And we're going to get into that in

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a second. Because he was not observed opening his eyes

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and making other suspicious movements not consistent with an unconscious state,

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or sorry, because he was observed opening his eyes and

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making other suspicious movements not consistent with an unconscious state.

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Epstein was medically assessed and became coherent. Epstein claimed that

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his cell mate, Nicholas Tartaglione, tried to take his life.

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Was that investigated? Answer? I believe, No, I mean I

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can't remember, but I believe a report of incident may

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have been done. Question Okay, answer, And primarily when an

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incident is generated. So anytime that an incident happens in

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the institution, I'm going to walk you through this, the

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lieutenant that's on shift is supposed to do the initial

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fact finding, the gathering of evidence, okay, and of all

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these things, and then they write a brief synopsis and

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then it's put in a packet, and then ultimately SIS

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department will investigate it, especially if we're having an assault,

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which would have been a two two four alpha, which

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is a minor assault of another. So pictures would have

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been taken, clinical assessments of both inmates would have been taken,

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when his statements would have been taken, All of these

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things would have been done, and it goes into an

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investigative packet. Question sure, so redacted lieutenant would have created

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it and provided it to SIS. Answer and would have

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created it and for me to move it on. Question

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And do you know if there was any credibility found

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to the claim that Epstein made that this other his cellmate,

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had tried to take his life. Answer. I don't believe

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there was any credibility that was ever concluded that that

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incident happened. Question, and do you know anything about how

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he was initially found if a homemade rope or whatever

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it was was found around his neck or says in

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this on his chest, anything with that with you know,

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do you know what I mean like if someone was

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trying to hang himself, if it came on their chest,

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do you know anything about how that may have happened? Answer?

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I mean, forensically, I wouldn't know. I'm not an investigator

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like that or on that level, so I can't really

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tell you the position of any type of homemade fashioned

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item that would have been used to facilitate a suicide

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attempt or an assault attempt. That's not my level. Again,

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I'm trying to remember what it was or what was used.

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I don't know exactly, so I can't really determine or

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give you that type of you know, I don't have

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expertise in that area. Question. But in the information that

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was provided to you, it was suggested that he tried

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to take his own life, not that his cellmate tried

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to take his life. Answer correct, that it was inconclusive

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that the inmate had inmate Tartaglioni had tried to kill

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this guy or tried to do any self harm to

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this guy. So you have to, like, you have to

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take an advantage because it's one inmate's word against another.

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So when the investigation comes down, of course, inmate Epstein

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would have been interviewed, Inmate Tartaglioni would have been interviewed,

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at which time you would have those statements, you would

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have waived, and then you would have to look into

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consideration any witness statements or anything that was observed during

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the clinical assessment. So that's why health services helps us out,

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because the inmates don't want to understand that everything they're

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doing or anything they're saying is being entered on a

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clinical assessment. So that's where they are saying that his

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actions may not have been what they should have been

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for a person that was quasi supposed to add been

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assaulted or if he was supposed to have been unconscious,

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he was displaying this type of manipulative behavior. So again,

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I wasn't there. I don't know what occurred. I'm just

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going by what the information that was relayed back to me.

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All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up, right, here and

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in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna

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pick up where we left off. All the information that

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goes with this episode can be found in the description box.