Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
where we left off with the Captain from MCC and
his interview with the OIG inspectors. Question is there any
other secure housing unit within the MCC? Answer? There is
only one secured housing unit. That's the shoe question. Okay,
not he gets caught off by the captain. But however,
we do have ten South and ten South is for
I believe those are for the SALM inmates, and those
inmates are under a specialized monitoring which comes from I
believe it's from the Attorney General. I believe I can't
remember who the person is that's over it, but I
believe that it was the Attorney General or whoever makes
that determination for those SAM inmates. Question Okay, and what
does SAM stand for? Answer? I believe I can't rememberes. Okay,
But is it like sa MS? Answer? That's correct? Question okay,
like an acronym. Answer it's an acronym. Question okay, And
that is not made by anyone at the MCC. That's
made by the Attorney General. Answer yeah, question all right?
Was there any discussion of placing Epstein in one of
those units. Answer no. Question could he have been placed
in one of those units? Answer I'm sure he could have.
Question but I mean by executive staff or would they
have to have made a call to he gets cut off.
Answer I believe they would have had to make special
concessions for the inmate. Answer okay. Question they would have
to you know, vetom and someone would have to approve it.
I believe outside the executive staff at MCC Question okay,
and then that's where I meant by is the executive
staff able to independently answer no, we are not. Question okay.
Were there are many inmates housed within ten South at
the time? Answer no. I believe at the time, we
may have had a total of four to five. Of course,
you know, we had the notorious Joaquin Guzman up there,
El Chapo. We also had the apple Puff Phenetic was
up there. We also had inmate it starts with an S.
I can't remember his name, but basically, these are inmates
that have made crimes against the United States, which it
was deemed that those inmates would be in that special
management unit and they couldn't of course go to the
general population. Question was this like a terrorist type of people. Answer,
I would say some of them are terrorists. You know.
Of course we had Joaquin Guzman was up there, the
terrorist kingpin, drug kingpin. He couldn't go on a general
population unit. Answer sure, question he would go Normally, guys
like that would be in a place where I come
from before. You know, he would be at ADX. I
believe that a pop I think that was his name,
a Popov or a Popov. These guys had made terrorist
threats against the United States, or there were guys up
there that had material or that was found in cooperation
with outside agencies that were trying to detriment of indiscernible
and cause harm to the United States. These kinds of guys,
they were the ones that were put in the unit.
Answer sure, question. Guys you wouldn't want in general population
because of their recruitment, their value, or their radical ability
that they could be able to have recruitment value for
you know, for other inmates and general population. You don't
want those guys in there. Answer yeah, question, But Jeffrey Epstein,
you know he's a multi billionaire. Question sure Now, as
far as ten South, is that one inmate percel? Answer yeah,
question And video monitored at all times. Answer yes. Question okay,
so it's like you're a maximum security. Answer that type
would be the highest security that an inmate at MCC
could be placed in question okay, answer yeah, could be
placed in yeah. Question, but the executive team never discussed
that answer no question okay. Redacted Advice that Epstein preferred
not to have a cell mate and engaged in manipulative
behavior to avoid having one. What type of behavior? Answer?
I believe that Epstein, and when I first came in,
he was doing self manipulative behavior. You know, he was
showing passive resistant activity as far as you know, when
they're taking meals, or wouldn't listen to staff, as far
as when they're giving him direction. You know, he would
sit in his cell and he wouldn't talk. I believe
he wasn't taking meals. At one point, he was refusing
to take showers, things of that nature. Question and the
sentence continues, including requesting to see a psychologist. Answer yeah,
question is that part of it? Answer? Yeah? Question okay,
did he say why he wanted to see a psychologist? Answer?
I don't know. Question No answer, I remember that, no question. Sure.
At Epstein's request, he was interviewed by a psychologist. Do
you know who he made that request to? Would it
have been shoe staff? Answer? He probably would have made
those requests to any of the staff that may have
been monitoring him at the time, because if he was
placed on psychological observation at the time psychological observation, you
would have had to have staff person that sat there
and monitored the inmate. Another inmate couldn't have monitored him.
Question Okay, and that is is that like twenty four
to seven answer? That would have been twenty four hours
of that seven days a week question. So a staff
member would just sit there and watch answer correct question,
communicate with him or no answer? Yeah, of course? Question okay? Answer.
I mean that's you know, encouraged even though the inmate's
placed in that situation. Again, we're talking about humanity here.
Question uh huh. Answer. You know, you want to gage
this guy's mental acuity, meaning that the inmate. You want
to know how he's feeling, how he's doing. Answer sure,
question is he improving or is he declining? Because if
he's declining and you can actually see it, you want
to contact somebody. You know, if this guy is in
there being very very you know, belligerent, he's being passive
aggressive or active resistant, or displaying signs of violence. You
want to make sure you notify someone. You're not going
to just sit there and allow this guy to do
self harm to himself and or staff when they come
to the door to provide his services, you know, such
as taking him to shower, providing his meals, providing his medication,
or whatever it is. So you just don't want to
sit there and allow this inmate just you know, if
he's going to be detrimentally, could be harmed to staff
or himself, you want to ensure that you notify someone. Answer, okay. So,
following that assessment, Epstein was initially placed on suicide watch.
He was later interviewed again and downgraded to psychological observation.
Now just for the suicide watch and psychological observation where
they located. Answer, they would be conducted downstairs on the
second floor in the health services area. Question and that's
outside of the shoe correct answer, That is correct question,
And that was prior to any attempt on his life
or anything like that. Answer, That is correct? Question? Okay?
Was that after some time he was returned to the
shoe redacted began hearing talk that Epstein was trying to
get back on suicide watch. Information like this is usually
generated from rounds, kites and kites or notes correct answer,
correct question, and notes from inmates specifically correct answer. It
could be yes, that would be inmate correspondence question yeah,
and monitoring phone calls and letters answer correct question. So
the hearing of talk, that's all based on inmate talk.
Answer that would have been all that staff question. Okay,
staff as well answer. You know, staffing sitting there and
you know, especially when he's on suicide watch, staff are
taking notes. So it's every fifteen minutes, you know. Staff, Oh,
I'm sorry, every thirty minutes, I believe, I can't remember,
it's been a while, but you know, a staff member
it's every thirty minutes, I believe, is taking a log
of what the inmate is doing inside of his cell,
so you know what he is doing. The inmate is
facing to the right, the inmate is facing away from
the staff. The inmate is, you know, doing what or
he makes statements. Those statements will be written in the log.
Question Okay, it says honor. About July twenty third, twenty nineteen,
Epstein was found on a responsive on the floor of
his cell with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest.
When you say a homemade piece of fabric, can you
explain that a little bit? Answer? Okay, basically, a homemade
piece of fabric. It could be anything, because it's out
of the special housing unit. That's what we're talking about, right,
Answer yeah, I mean I'm talking about specifically in this instance.
Do you know what is meant by found on the
floor with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest?
Answer it could have been fragments from a T shirt.
It could have been fragments from sheets. It could have
been fragments of cloth. He gets interrupted that they could
tie together. Answer it was tied together, you know, indiscernible
to make the type of homemade fashioned. He gets cut
off by the investigator. Question did you see it at
all though yourself? Answer? I can't remember? Question okay, sure.
Epstein's cell mate had flagged the attention of a staff member,
who handcuffed the cell mate and removed Epstein to bring
him to the medical unit. Do you recall at that
time who is cell mate was? Answer Tartaglione. Question okay, great,
and did you all right, we talk about him in
a little bit. Redacted her from the staff that Epstein
may have been faking on consciousness. Do you know who
told you that? Answer? Well, basically in memorandum. I remember
when it was reported to me and I made my report.
I believe it was in the report of the incident
by redacted question okay? Answer? And I believe that she
had put out an email which concluded that the inmate
was showing manipulative behavior through his statements and what was
observed by medical staff question okay. Answer. So basically they
were saying that the incident didn't occur, as the inmate
may have tried to make it look like or occur.
Question okay. And we're going to get into that in
a second. Because he was not observed opening his eyes
and making other suspicious movements not consistent with an unconscious state,
or sorry, because he was observed opening his eyes and
making other suspicious movements not consistent with an unconscious state.
Epstein was medically assessed and became coherent. Epstein claimed that
his cell mate, Nicholas Tartaglione, tried to take his life.
Was that investigated? Answer? I believe, No, I mean I
can't remember, but I believe a report of incident may
have been done. Question Okay, answer, And primarily when an
incident is generated. So anytime that an incident happens in
the institution, I'm going to walk you through this, the
lieutenant that's on shift is supposed to do the initial
fact finding, the gathering of evidence, okay, and of all
these things, and then they write a brief synopsis and
then it's put in a packet, and then ultimately SIS
department will investigate it, especially if we're having an assault,
which would have been a two two four alpha, which
is a minor assault of another. So pictures would have
been taken, clinical assessments of both inmates would have been taken,
when his statements would have been taken, All of these
things would have been done, and it goes into an
investigative packet. Question sure, so redacted lieutenant would have created
it and provided it to SIS. Answer and would have
created it and for me to move it on. Question
And do you know if there was any credibility found
to the claim that Epstein made that this other his cellmate,
had tried to take his life. Answer. I don't believe
there was any credibility that was ever concluded that that
incident happened. Question, and do you know anything about how
he was initially found if a homemade rope or whatever
it was was found around his neck or says in
this on his chest, anything with that with you know,
do you know what I mean like if someone was
trying to hang himself, if it came on their chest,
do you know anything about how that may have happened? Answer?
I mean, forensically, I wouldn't know. I'm not an investigator
like that or on that level, so I can't really
tell you the position of any type of homemade fashioned
item that would have been used to facilitate a suicide
attempt or an assault attempt. That's not my level. Again,
I'm trying to remember what it was or what was used.
I don't know exactly, so I can't really determine or
give you that type of you know, I don't have
expertise in that area. Question. But in the information that
was provided to you, it was suggested that he tried
to take his own life, not that his cellmate tried
to take his life. Answer correct, that it was inconclusive
that the inmate had inmate Tartaglioni had tried to kill
this guy or tried to do any self harm to
this guy. So you have to, like, you have to
take an advantage because it's one inmate's word against another.
So when the investigation comes down, of course, inmate Epstein
would have been interviewed, Inmate Tartaglioni would have been interviewed,
at which time you would have those statements, you would
have waived, and then you would have to look into
consideration any witness statements or anything that was observed during
the clinical assessment. So that's why health services helps us out,
because the inmates don't want to understand that everything they're
doing or anything they're saying is being entered on a
clinical assessment. So that's where they are saying that his
actions may not have been what they should have been
for a person that was quasi supposed to add been
assaulted or if he was supposed to have been unconscious,
he was displaying this type of manipulative behavior. So again,
I wasn't there. I don't know what occurred. I'm just
going by what the information that was relayed back to me.
All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up, right, here and
in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
pick up where we left off. All the information that
goes with this episode can be found in the description box.