Speaker 1: Hi, James Miller from Cleveland, Ohio, and I played picking
that golf course.
Speaker 2: This is golf Smart number one thousand and six.
Speaker 3: Let's make it kind of resemble a wedge, because if
we're gonna putt with a wedge, we wanted to feel
like it, which is why you have the perpendicular lines
to the target line. Those are paying homage to the
grooves of a wedge. And then the shape of it
all was trying to get a visual of a wedge.
We actually created the name because one we're going to
spoil your opponent's game, but two we needed something that
ended an ler, so we were working with industrial design firm.
We all liked spoiler and that's why we went with Spoiler. Well,
once we figured out the face was actually getting the
role that we wanted, then it was just all about design.
How do we make it look like a mallet but
resemble a wedge, Because if we're going to say that
we created this from putting with a wedge, like we
want it to look a little bit like a wedge.
Speaker 2: Get a lead edge, roll with the spoiler putter. It's
like putting with a wedge. With inventor Dan Lanblan, this
is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great
golf minds to help you lower your score and raise
your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to
the Golf Smarter Podcast.
Speaker 3: Dan, Hey, Fred, thanks glad to be here.
Speaker 2: Glad to have you on to talk about your new invention.
Is it an invention a product? It's a product. I
guess it's an invention because it's something that's out there
a lot, but no one's done it like this before.
Speaker 1: That's right, right.
Speaker 3: We think it's We think it's pretty new. I mean,
you know, yes, we're a copycat. I don't think we
are at all from where and how we design this thing.
And so I think it's truly an innovation and hopefully
the way that putters and everybody's going to start moving
all right.
Speaker 2: Now, you gave away the secret. So we are talking
about putters today and Dan and his dad have invented
are created a new design for a putter. It's called
Spoiler Golf and the key on this is the ler
and spoiler stands for lead edge role.
Speaker 3: Glad you picked up on that. A lot of people
do not pick up on that at all.
Speaker 2: It took me a long time to figure it out. No,
it did not at all. No, No, because I got
the postcard from you, and it's like l E R
l E R. And then I started seeing a lead. Okay,
great lead edge roll, but still to some people that's
kind of confusing. So explain how you got to the
point where you just you and your dad thought this
could be a good idea to create a different type
of putter unlike anything else based on the way your
dad puts.
Speaker 3: Right, Absolutely, yeah, no, and I'd say it's probably maybe
only just right now do we actually think it's a
good idea because we've had a year of selling the product,
and we've had good market adoption and we out of
everything last year. Oh wow, congratulates you very much, and
so so that was cool. So then it was like, okay,
now we can take a breath, because before it was
all pretty much an idea.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It was during COVID. I was living up in Philly
at the time with my wife. COVID hit right, and
then someone in our apartment building got COVID right, And
this was very early on, so it was like to me,
it was that's my death worn I'm done. Like we
needed to get out of here because we're close to somebody.
So we went down to South Carolina, where my dad
was at the time, just to get away for a
couple of weeks. Well that ended up being a year, right,
as we all know what happened with COVID and whatnot
and a lot of changes in life and things during
that time. Well, we went down to South Carolina. Yeah,
my dad was living there with my mom at the time,
and you know, he was playing golf because that's pretty
much all you could do right at the time. And
you know, some courses were closed, but his was luckily
open so he could play.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was a great COVID was a great
time for podcasting, but yeah, a great.
Speaker 3: Time, wonderful time for golf, and I guess a wonderful
time for golf ideas too. So during that time, while
we were down there, my dad was putting with his
wedge and you know, he had told me, and you know,
he he doesn't golf as much as he used to,
but you know, at the time he was probably about
a ten handicaps. He's a pretty good golfer, and he
was telling me that, you know, hey, you need to
start putting with your wedge because I swear it puts
a better roll on the ball. I'm like, well that's dumb,
because it's harder to hit the ball, and I have
a putter, Like the putter is going to be better
than it wedges, I'm going to try and belly a
wedge right. So sometimes people will use a wedge and
try and belly the golf ball right, just from a
practice standpoint, just to work on contact location, try and
work on their angle of attack, try and work on
getting their risk quiet, try and work on just getting
a nice rhythm with right with their stroke. Because if
you don't do those things, not hit the ball in
the equator. If you don't hit the ball in the equator,
it will not roll properly. However, when you do put
with a wedge and belly a wedge with the leading
edge of a wedge hence lead edge roll, when you
belly it with the lead edge of a roll, it
does actually put a better roll on the golf ball.
And I'm sure maybe you have tried time to time,
or you haven't. You had your putter in your hand,
or you left your putter at the cart, or you
broke it or whatever, and so you had to putt
with a wedge, like more often than not, when you
just grab the wedge and hit it, it goes in right.
And I'm not going to say that they all go
in or anything like that, but there is some science
behind it as to why it creates more forward roll
earlier in the putt, So it helps the ball actually
stay online better and start online better. Because it's rolling
forward earlier, any deviation in the green isn't going to
maneuver that ball offline. And then because you have less scared,
less hopping less backspin, you have a better chance to
gauge your distance control because we're removing a lot of
that known that happens earlier in the putt.
Speaker 2: Let me stop you for a second and break down
this concept of a proper role versus traditional putters. Explain why,
what the difference is, how it starts from a traditional putter,
and where it goes to on the spoiler golf PLA.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, and I think this is something that like
a lot of amateurs, I'll say most amaters probably don't
even know this. I didn't know a lot about this
until I dove in to working on putters. I think
there's probably a lot of pro golfers that don't know
this much detail. But like when you hit a putt,
the ball does not stop rolling immediately. It does not
just roll right. There's different forces in physics, right, putting
different forces on the ball. The ball's going to scad
for probably the first twenty percent. It could even have
backspin or hop a lot, you know, depending on your
loft or angle of attack right, and so's it's not
a smooth role. It's not until there's an a friction
between the putting surface and that golf ball to slow
down any hopping backspinner skid to then the ball starts
actually rolling forward in rolls like we would think of roll. Right,
it's just rolling purely forward. But it's generally twenty percent
of your putt is in that skid hot backspin phase
before the ball enters into true forward roll.
Speaker 2: And that is on all traditional flat edged putters.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is on every pocket.
Speaker 2: So the ball doesn't just start rolling when you hit it. It
skids skits absolutely right, and a lot of that.
Speaker 3: You know, if you just think of it from a
common sense, the harder you hit it right, it's going
to skid more. The harder you hit it because it's
a smaller ball, it's got a lot of force being
applied to it. It can't just roll immediately, right, It's
got to skid a little before it can start rolling
because you're just applying so much force in to that ball.
And so when you have a flat face, I'm trying
to use this other arm, but bear with me because
I've got the rotator cuff injury. Right when you hit it,
it's not going to go perfectly forward with a flat face.
And really, with a conventional flat face putter, it has
a little bit of loft on it, right, So if
you hit a ball, really what it's going to do
is shoot it up in the air and get it
back spinning a little bit before then it starts rolling forward.
Speaker 2: And what is the impact of that roll when it
skips or backspin or slides. What how does that impact
the way your putt is going to be rolled?
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, what you're saying there, well, it impacts it
in that that skid will vary. So it's you know,
on average twenty percent, but based on the different turf conditions,
whether you have ball marks or weeds or anything on
the grass, that will always be different. It might only
skid for eighteen percent, but you might be on a slower,
shaggyar green and it might skid for twenty four percent, right,
And if it's skidding in different amounts, then you can't
really judge and gauge how hard to hit that ball. Moreover,
if it's skidding and it hits a deviation in the green,
it has more chance and the higher probability to skip
it off of line because it's just skidding and it
can kind of go wherever where if it has true
for a role, if it goes through a ball mark,
it just rolls right through it and it'll stay online better.
So there are true advantages to getting the ball rolling
with more for ad roll and earlier in the putt
as early as you can, which is why when we
started putting with a wedge, we realized the ball was
rolling earlier. You can literally just feel and see the
ball has a different role to it, And anytime we
put a putter in people's hand, they're like, yeah, I
don't know what it is, but it's definitely a different role.
And that's the role that it's just rolling earlier in
the putt. And so we've been able to kind of
cut down that skid percentage and get the ball having
more forward role earlier in the putt by designing this
lead edge role face into our putters on spoiler putters.
Speaker 2: The way you and I connected on this is you
referred to me by one of our favorite guests on
the show, Joe Hallett, PGA Master professional based out of Nashville, Tennessee.
How did you get to Joe and how did you
get him so excited about this putter?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And as you know, because I'm sure he sees a
lot of different products, oh.
Speaker 3: My god, everything right, He's had world number ones playing
under him on the LPGA. Like the man has seen
everything and knows a lot about the golf swing, the
golf ball, golf equipment, you name it, he knows it.
We were fortunate enough to meet him through one of
our partners. You know, our business is super super small, right,
We just launched last January. We had a wonderful first year.
I pretty much run everything day to day, right, Anything
that you see it has to do a spoiler golf like,
I'm doing it, even shipping clubs out, inventory management, marketing, website,
you name it. I'm doing all. But I have three
other partners. Four other partners actually that help us from
a strategic standpoint. One of those those gentlemen named Dick Horton.
The other two are Mark Singer. He helps us from
a marketing standpoint. And then my father, Jeff Landman, was
actually the right the one who came up with the
idea of let's put the leading edge right of a
wedge on a putter because that's the way I play
it exactly because I think it's better. And I was like, well,
I don't know about that, but over time he's proven
that it is better. And so Dick Horton was with
Tennessee PGA for a very very long time. He's actually
a member of the Hall of Fame Tennessee. And he
introduced us to Joe Hollett, who's at Vanderbilt Legends Club,
and you know what, we thought we were going to
have to go in and sell him on the idea.
You know, he was at the time, he was the
PGA Tour I mean the PGA coach and teacher of
the Year, so I mean he was voted as the
best teacher in the USA during that year. And so
when we got to meet with him, obviously we're floored.
We're a new company and we have a very different product,
Like what is he going to think about it? And
immediately he fell in love with it. He was like,
I have people put with a wedge all the time.
I know exactly what you're doing here. He's like, however,
the issue is when I have people put with a wedge.
They put with a wedge, but they put the putter
in their hand and it just feels different because it's
now a putter in their hand, it's not their wedge,
so it doesn't have the same feel waiting, right, toe hang, etc.
And so when he saw our putter, he was like, yes,
this is this is genius, you know, and you know,
it's obviously great to hear some validation from somebody who
understands the space and could do something with So from
a training standpoint, Joe absolutely loves this club because it
forces you to truly think about ball roll and not
so much about your stroke, and then you can truly
feel what it feels like to get pure forward role
on the ball, to truly just think about focusing on
your contact and putting a good role on the ball
and just letting everything else go. And that's what he
uses this for with a lot of his players, and
so they'll take in the bag and they'll do all
their practice sessions and all their training sessions with spoiler.
They might go back to their other putter, but at
least now they understand the proper way in which they
should put and how that ball should come off of
their face.
Speaker 2: Fascinating, fascinating. So he sees it is like a training aid.
Speaker 3: He sees it as a training aid. And you know,
you and I were talking a little bit before we
jumped on air. There's another company.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I'm from Nashville, Tennessee originally, and so I knew them well,
Seymour Putters, right.
Speaker 2: Sure, we've featured them many times.
Speaker 3: Seymore Putter started the same way. I mean, they were
a training aid, or they were a putter with a
training portion to it. And then realized, Hey, I'm making
all my putts using this training aid, So why don't
I go ahead and just put it in the bag. Right,
our putters are We don't market it as a training aid.
It is fully USGA conforming and it is a gamer
and it is a putter that puts a better role
on the ball to give every golfer a relative advantage
over their playing partner and to truly help them experience
pure role on the greens. Like, that's what we're trying
to do, and we don't we don't care if you're
using it as a gamer or if you're using as
a training aid. If it helps you understand and apply
a proper, more pure for roll on your ball, then
we've done our job. And that's what we try to
just preach day in and day out, like even you know,
as little as like every time we sell a putter,
we tell every single customer they can send us a
video of them putting with our putter whenever they want,
however many times they want, and we will analyze it,
send them tips, feedback, et cetera. Because we want to
make sure people are putting better, not just buying a
better putter. We're truly hoping they buy a better putter
to become better putters on the green and that's what
we're here to do. We're not truly just trying to
sell a product. We're trying to help people, Yeah, get
better at putting by selling the product.
Speaker 2: Yeah wow, Okay, so this audience knows very well and
if you've looked through my feeds on the various podcast episodes.
You know that I've done a lot with Sam Hunter
Lab Golf, and I'm a big fan of their science
behind their putters.
Speaker 3: Me too.
Speaker 2: And I actually when I received your spoiler putter, spoiler
golf putter, I wrote to Sam.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, he and I have strange text threads
go very you know, infrequently, but still, and he said,
I think it's a wonderful training.
Speaker 3: Aid good.
Speaker 2: He said that you guys, you guys reached out to
him at one point, but he he he what basically
what he says, I really appreciate that they have the
balls to think outside the box and try new things. Yeah,
nothing but respect for those.
Speaker 3: Guys I appreciate too, because we've we've exchanged some messages
back and forth, Sam, right, just because you know, I
knew of the lab before we ever got in the
right into sure, because we just like so we spent
a couple of years, you know, R and D and prototyping,
et cetera. Launched last year, but before that time, you know,
I heard you know, rumblings of Lab because they were
finally starting to grow when Sam took over, Right, he
was doing a very good job marketing getting the word out,
and it was amazing, right. I was like, this is
so cool and to me, the cool part and again
this is before we ever got into creating our own
part of company was right. It's a small company doing
something in a space that is dominated by giants, right,
and so like, I have just admiration and respect for
what Sam's done, what Lab's done, what those guys have
done over there, because it's it's amazing, and I mean
I hear some of the numbers. I don't know if
they're real or not, but it sounds like they're running
an incredible, incredible business, which they should be because they're
pushing the envelope right, and they've got cool technology and
it works. And you know, we're trying to do something
different in the space too. Ours is I would say
a little bit more different just because it looks I mean, hit,
I guess the DF looks very, very different, you know,
and so it's a very very two.
Speaker 2: That's point one. But then the three is getting high adoptions.
Speaker 3: Absolutely have three, absolutely, and so we're trying to do
something different in the space too, because we aren't expecting
to appeal to you know, one hundred percent of right golfers.
I want twenty percent of golfers to be raving fans
of their spoiler putter.
Speaker 2: That's a huge number.
Speaker 3: It's a huge number, right, but of the right that
and I'll say twenty percent of the entire right golfing population,
but of people who hear about us, Like, I just
want those twenty people to absolutely love us. And if
eighty percent think that we're the dumbest thing that's ever
been built or created or designed or the ugliest putter,
makes no sense, Like, Okay, that's fine, I get it.
That's why there's so many options out there. I mean,
if you look at the putter world, like the number
of putters out there is putter companies is really mind
blowing if you really dig into it, Like there are
so many mom and pops that I'll see and see
shops right there doing but most of them to me
are more of like an art form, and they're very
pretty and they're nice, but there's not a lot of
difference in what they're trying to achieve. And when we
looked at this space, it was there's a lot about
MOI and creeping your face square and these are very
important things. But it's like nobody's talking about the role
of the ball. All that matters is what the ball
does after you hit it. Who cares what's happened up
until that point. If we can get a really, really
good role, well now, right now we're cooking with gas
because now we have a lot more possibilities because we've
figured out how to get that ball rolling earlier in
the space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know the thing that's you need, Like
we're right now as we record this. This morning was
the playoff between Rory McElroy and JJ spawn for the championship,
the players Championship, and they had to have that Monday
morning playoff because they finished too late yesterday. But what
you know, I've interviewed so many people that have developed
and introduced new products, but going back to lab Golf
for a moment, it's one of the few interviews that
I've done, one of the few products we've exposed that
you're getting that kind of exposure, JJ Spahn, right, using
the DF three, it's like that's going to sell putters. Yeah, right,
And we've always known on this show. We've always known
if you get it in the hands of somebody on
the tour you're going to start selling product, and otherwise
even great ideas can just languish along.
Speaker 3: Here because you need that validation from kind of that
third party that is, you know, has respect from the consumer, right,
which you know in this space is yes, a pro
golfer of some sort, right, And so I mean we're trying.
Speaker 2: And who succeeds, especially if they have success, you know,
playing against Rori at a three whole yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, playing it to a three whole playoff, like you've
you've yet with this product. And I felt that farm today.
It's because he had sucked. He putted great the first
three days he did.
Speaker 2: And what was interesting at the end of day one
the three guys at the top on Thursday, who are
all tied at six hunderd. We're all lab golf buttons.
But that's not what you want to tell you.
Speaker 3: I'm all right, But like I said, I think they've
they've done it, and they've also helped pave the way
for other small companies to like to say, look, hey,
there are quality products out there that don't come from Callaway, Taylor,
may Dry, Puma, Cobra like they make great stuff too, right,
but you know there's new stuff I just think that
smaller companies can be can take more risk, right because
bigger companies aren't going right, They've got their cash, how
they know what's working. There's no sense for them to
truly you know, test new orders until they know that
there's a market for it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We're out there trying to say, hey, is there a market?
And I think think what happens with us and we
see is when we tell people, hey, have you ever
putted with a wedge? And when it's like you get
the tinkers and the real golfers go, oh, now I
get it. I put with a wedge all the time.
Like I'm amazed at how many emails I get for
orders that are this is genius. I put with a
wedge all the time. I can't wait to get this.
When can I get it? And like I didn't think
I'd get that many, but it's like I swear every
one in five emails right about it is like, hey,
I'm I get it. I put with a wedge. I
want to use this. I was like, oh, I didn't
know there was that big of a population out there
putting with a wedge, but hey, great to hear. And
I think once people start using the putter and they
feel that role and they actually feel the difference, it
starts to become a little bit more addictive over time,
Like I want to I want to chase that role,
So I'm gonna use that putter. I'm going to continue
to chase that role and chase that role.
Speaker 2: Dan, I really appreciate you letting me try out the
putter before we got to have this conversation because it
helps me tremendously. I'm holding it up here now and
for those who, well, nobody's gonna be seeing this, but
you are. So anyway, this is the lead edge, and
this is what it looks like. It has a unique style.
Talk about the design on this and how you came
up with this design. One of the things that I've
always loved about Lab Golf is that even before Lab Golf,
I was using Seymour putters, and before that I was
using I even forget what I was using, but I've
always liked center shafted putters. I immediately, you know, I
didn't grow up playing golf, so I didn't get the
traditional stuff immediately. So I've always like a center shafted
putter and the way the ball comes off of it,
and I feel like it reduces the amount of mishits
because there's not so much space between where all the
weight's coming through for the shaft. And so in practicing
with this and hitting some putts with it, I definitely
notice the role was really coming right off. As soon
as the strike happened, it starts rolling and that, you know,
give me a nice, true role. But it did lose
a lot of power on mishits, Like if I tried
to hit it off the toe, you're gonna lose inches,
you know, or feet depending on.
Speaker 3: How far it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so where did let's talk about what the design
is on this putter?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So, I mean obviously we talked a little bit
about you know, it was putting with a wedge, which
was the inspiration for why we designed right. So that's
you know, first and foremost we had to have the
leading edge. The first buttter I don't have one with
me right now, was a prototype we actually have. If
you think of like the leading edge of a wedge
and how small it is, and it's like a couple
of millimeters, that's how big the leading edge on our
first butter was. So if you want to talk about
a training aid and actually I'm going to give Joe
Hallett one of our old prototypes because he was like,
from a training standpoint, I would love to see that thing.
It was hard to hit the middle of the ball
every time with it just like it is, which is
why we've made that face a little bit wider. And
you know, I will say that we've got a blade
coming out in June, which we've actually made the face
even a touch wider on the blade to give it
a little to bit more forgiveness than we have on
the mallet. So I'm going to have the greatest forward
role and the purest roll out there. The blade's going
to still have very very very good for a role,
but it's going to have a touch more forgiveness, so
it's going to have a touch less of that forward
role on it. But anyway, to go back to the design,
it was the leading edge of a wedge, so that
had to be the first part right the face we
had to design and figure out at what height we
should have that face right, which was a lot of
testing and working with focus groups to literally figure out
how how do people hover their putter on average when
they're taking a stroke? Right, So where's the impact or right,
So it was you know, and then figuring out, okay,
how much diameter do we need to hit right the
equator of the ball on a consistent basis right, And
so that was a lot of trying to figure out
the front, leading edge and the face of the putter.
Once we figured that out, the rest was all right,
how do we now create a putter right, a mallet putter,
you know, And I think we've got about forty eight
hundred MOI, which is you know, it's it's it's good.
But we weren't trying to create the highest MOI putter.
Like we're not out there trying to say that we
have the most forgiving or the highest MOI. We're saying
we've got the best role and that's what we want
MOI being moment of a nerve threat, which is right,
going to help keep the face stable, especially if you're
going to hit it off the toe or off the heel.
So we're probably right in the middle of mois. You know.
I think there's putters out there, like cure putters, perhaps
their whole thing is and I think they're almost at
like eighteen or twenty thousand, like it's really high, omi
like it is a very stable face and they put
a good roll on the ball too. The rest of
our putter design was's make it kind of resemble a wedge, right,
because if we're gonna put with a wedge, we wanted
to feel like it, which is why you have the
kind of perpendicular lines right to the target line. Those
are you know, just paying homage to the grooves of
the putter there right, or the grooves of a wedge.
And then the shape of it all was trying to
get you know, all right, it kind of comes back
and trying to just get the visual of a wedge.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: When we did that, we were doing some and they
were didn't have like the hole in the back where
I quote unquote you know people call the back the spoiler,
which I understand that's the name of it. We actually
created the name because spoiler was one, we're going to
spoil your opponent's role or your opon I mean to
spoil your opponent's game. But two we needed something that
ended in L E R. Right, because as you and
so we were working with an industrial design firm, we
all liked spoiler and that's why we went with spoiler.
It just so happens that we had, you know, the
entire thing when we made our first one. You know,
I think it was like five hundred grams of steel, right,
because we didn't have this hole cut out in the
middle or any of it carved out here, so it
was jagged. It was hard. This bottom part would get
caught on the grass all the time because it wasn't
We didn't smooth it out, We didn't round anything out.
And then we went in right and started tweaking it
to figure out well. Once we figured out the face
was actually getting the role that we wanted, then it
was just all about design, right, how do we make
it look like a mallet but resemble a wedge, because
if we're going to say that we we created this
from putting with a wedge, like, we want it to
look a little bit like a wedge. And then it
was getting the waiting right. You know, we've got about
twenty degrees of tow hang here. Where you say you
like center shafted, I assume if here's a center shaft,
generally now you're lyingle balanced, but before it was probably
face balanced. And in our idea and our theory is
for a pure and proper role. We want to not force,
but we want to encourage. We want to encourage golfers
to truly let the face rotate and let that toe
release a little bit to help put a better role
on that golf ball and right, and that's all just
that's a lot of personal preference. You know, all of
us were heel shaft I grew up with a heel
shafted and I used to I grew up and I
grew up right when I started when I was seventeen.
But you know, I liked using I was an art
major in college too, so it was like, I'm creative
in my process and the way I play. I don't
like to be very scientific with things or detail oriented.
So I was using a blade, you know, like Phil
used to use.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It was just like no line on it, just the
old school blade, and I could just see a line,
feel it and go. And I always always knew that
if I would release the toe like the it just
felt like it started on line and went exactly where
I want. And so that's the theory for why all
of ours right now we don't have a center shafted model.
They're all heel shafted. Because we'd like to encourage a
little bit of that toe release that then helps get
that ball rolling even that little bit more. And right,
that's a little bit of torque, But I think that's
good because we want the ball coming off as hot
as possible, right, and it comes off hot on this
face and that's I think for me it makes sense, right,
and for a lot of people who use this butter
it makes But if you like a really soft buttery
feel coming off, you know where you bar, you feel
it like we're probably not the putter for you then,
which is okay. But I think it's better to have
a smaller stroke with a hotter ball coming off than
having to take a larger stroke and not even have
the ball come the same distance because you just have
more variability in your stroke for issues to pop up. Right.
Speaker 2: So, well, yeah, the thing that that lie angle balance
is they're trying to eliminate the torque, right, get that
out of your system. But you're saying saying, no, no, no,
this is this is built into it. We want to
because the normal stroke for ninety nine percent of golfers
has got that torque in there, and LAB is trying
to say you don't really need it. You're saying, no, no, no,
this is this is built into this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we think it's actually we're trying to use
it to our advantage and to help create that role, right,
But they're using it, you know, trying to take it
out to try and keep that face stable. So we're
both going after different goals, not ones right or the other.
But it's just we like the way that it feels
and we want people to be able to feel where
the face is throughout the stroke so they know that
if they need to correct it, they can, but they
can also release that toe and know when it's time
to release that toe. And we're not talking about you know,
full shutdown of it, but it's just a tiny bit
of release that I think is just a natural tendency
for when we're putting the ball. Like even when you're
bowling right, you're not going to roll it straight ahead?
Are you going to roll it? You're gonna put a
little bit of spin and that thing comes out and
it's beautiful and starts rolling and you know, we'll slides
for a while first on whatever they put on those alleys. Yeah,
so that that's where we're coming from. That said, we
are working on designing a center shafted putter. You know,
I don't. It won't be lyingle balanced, it will be
face balanced, assuming we like it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We always design everything the prototype and make sure it's
got the roll and fits within our the system theory,
and then we'll release it. But we've had a lot
of customers that are just used to us center shafted putter,
and you know a lot of that is what people
did growing up. And if you saw a lookdown, you
saw center shafted all the time. Like to me, it
is very very very hard for me to putt with
a center shafted like I I just struggle with it.
I can't see my lines. I can't, you know. But
you put in anything heel shafted and I'm like, right now,
I feel good. Let's do that. You know, whether it's
a mallet or.
Speaker 2: Or a blade, is there a fitting process that you
need to go through or is this like I would
I usually use a thirty three inch putter, And you say, great,
we'll send you one.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We we would love to get to a point
to have a fitting process, and you know that is
in the plans at some point. Right we launched this
is just our second year in business, so we're trying
to kind of start as as smart and focused as
we can. Right last year it was just one club,
one color, two shaft links, that's it. This year we're
going to have you know, we've got our silver mallet,
We're coming out with our black Stealth edition move before
and thirty five inch. Yeah, the black is awesome. Oh
I bet it looks like we need to order more
of those already, so because we've been pre ordering them
and I'm amazed how many pre orders we we've already
had as well, so it's been a good start to
this year. So we'll have those in thirty four and
thirty five inch as well and left hand. And then
we've got the Blade coming out later this year, which
will be thirty four and thirty five inch and left
handed as well. And so we're trying to keep our
skews as limited as we can right now, because I've
just seen too many companies get so excited about trying
to appease everyone, which I want to do at some point.
But our whole deal still is in the face technology
and the design of the lead edge roll face, and
so to us that's the most important thing, and we
want to deliver that to people straight out of the box,
ready to go. And if it's straight out of the
box ready to go, they can make modifications however they want,
right pull the shaft, put your own shaft in, put
a new grip on it, change the li angle if
you'd want. But right now, everything's just thirty four to
thirty five inches seventy degrees because again all the technology
for us is in the head. We will move along
to where we are going to have more optionality once
we can get our operations right, really really clean when
it makes sense. But there's just we can't bankrupt ourselves
right now. You know, we're still in a big hole
from R and D that we've got to stretch out
of a little bit before we can start adding on
more services. And you know, hopefully after this year that
that'll be the time if we if we hit the
goals that we think we're going to hit this year,
then we'll be able to invest in kind of a
larger right inventory, larger operation, more customizations and that should
hopefully be coming next year.
Speaker 2: Then very cool. And what are the costs retail?
Speaker 3: For the costs right now, we've got some pre order
pricing going on, so it's a little bit off, but
generally they started about three eighteen for the silver mallet,
three twenty eight for the stealth mallet, and then I
think the blade's going to come in. We're still doing
final costs, but it'll be right around three hundred for
the blade when it comes in. Those are costs, and
you know, we know that, you know, most people want
to putt with a putter before they buy one, and
you know, and most people will go to Golf Galaxy
right or Dicks or wherever and roll them right and
they have everything there you can imagine you can roll
before you you ever buy it. So we offer thirty
days right money back guarantee too, so if people don't
love it, you know, they can send it back and
we'll give them their money back, because again we want
we want people to love this. We don't want to
just shove it down people's throat and if they don't
like it, not enjoy it, like there's it's a.
Speaker 2: Lot of money. Yeah, let's redo it. And is this
in uh internationally this order with the or nationally with
the with the return policy as well? What's that with
the return policy as well?
Speaker 3: International, it is, the only difference is that the customer
then has to pay for the return the customer's player
return shipping anyway, But it's only fifteen dollars in the US.
If it's international, it can be anywhere more forty to them.
I mean we've sent some that it was one hundred
and twenty dollars shipping, right, and then they have to
be duty and vat on top of that too to
get it.
Speaker 2: So after I received it, did some putting with it
in my practice yard here my practice putting green in
my yard, and got some feel for it, which was
kind of which was really fun. And then I did
an ab back and forth with the DF three and
and you know, it was like, oh, I can definitely
see a difference here. And then hearing you say and
and Sam saying oh it's great for training, it's like, yeah, okay,
this is going to get a lot more time out
there for that. But this weekend when I went and
played golf, I brought it with me, right, and I
walked out on the practice putting green and I talked
to a couple of golfers and here, I'll let you
hear the conversation. Here's the first one, Can I stop
you for a second?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: Sim My name's Fred, Hi Fred, Tom, Tom, Good to
meet you. Tom. I host a podcast called The Golf
Smarter Podcast, interviewing a guy who just invented a new
style putter. This is called the spoiler in the L
E R. And spoiler stands for a lead edge roll. Okay,
So it's based on the concept of some people putt
with their wedge because because it gets.
Speaker 1: A good something I've never been able to do.
Speaker 2: What kind of putter do you use?
Speaker 1: This is Wilson eight eighty eight two Classic Classic Blade.
Speaker 2: Huh yeah? How long you been using it?
Speaker 1: That is probably my fifth or sixth season of it.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So what I'd like you to do is
just take a couple putts with your potter first from
this distance and this is about nine feet, okay, go
ahead and take a couple putts with your putter first,
little editing here, good distance, a little bit low. Nice,
great putt. Oh and it just slipped out. All right. Now,
Let's give you some strokes with the spoiler and see
how that feels.
Speaker 1: Fascinating.
Speaker 2: WHOA did I ask you what you're indexes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fifteen teen okay.
Speaker 2: And how's your putting generally.
Speaker 4: Depends on how much I'm playing, Okay, not playing as
much as i'd like to. I'm working on something. I'm
pretty happy with my putting. Actually, So that's straight back,
straight through.
Speaker 2: It's up to you.
Speaker 4: It feels like it's going to be heavier at impact,
but then it kind of isn't. That was a wipe,
interesting though. It feels softer than you expected. Yeah, let
me give it. Give it another one absolutely if you want.
Are you a straight back, straight through kind of guy? No,
I tend not to be. I used to put with
them out before I started putting with that.
Speaker 2: Uh huh. How would you describe your putting? That one
go in?
Speaker 1: That felt good? It looked great, right, and this had
a nice release on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you will try one of the longer putt.
Speaker 1: Sure, that sounds like fun.
Speaker 2: Okay, you pick it. Want to just go downhill to
this one here?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Or this one over here?
Speaker 1: That's good? With this one?
Speaker 2: That's o good one too. Twenty twenty seven feet downhill.
It's gonna break probably right to left, so he doesn't
go straight back straight through. That's coming up a little
bit short, kind of goes out and in and slides
across the that that's really good. Just went past the
hole on the low side.
Speaker 4: It feels like it's only hitting the top half of
the ball, which is a little different, very different.
Speaker 2: For Yeah, it's a different feeling.
Speaker 1: It's interesting.
Speaker 2: It's cool, interesting idea. Yeah, it is cool.
Speaker 1: I'd like a little more weight at the bottom, I guess. Okay,
that'd be my feedback.
Speaker 2: Okay, cool, Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you bet.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's awesome that I love it. People are just
intrigued by it. That makes my day. Yeah, that's enough
for me where it's like, okay, cool, Yeah that is different.
It works, but it's not enough for me.
Speaker 2: There's another guy out there and here's what he here's
that session that one went. What's your name, Mike? Thank you, Mike.
Let's do this. Let's take like a ten foot putt. Okay,
take three putts with your putter from that ten feet
and even a six foot part seven foot putt?
Speaker 3: Here?
Speaker 2: What do we have here? This is about eight and
a half feet. You practiced here before, you know, Okay,
just ring the left side of your first one with
your your own putter. What kind of putter. Now you're
putting with a blade. This is a ping answer. And
how long have you been putting with this? Oh?
Speaker 1: Probably ten years?
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: This is called the spoiler and spoiler okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The l E R is lead edge roll okay,
which is spoiled lure. You said it's about the same
way as your ping answer.
Speaker 1: My grip is thick. Yeah, so this is not ideal.
Speaker 2: Short put the good line on that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go a little longer putt. How's that?
Speaker 2: Okay? How did that feel?
Speaker 1: That felt fine? It's different. Yeah, obviously you.
Speaker 2: Know the point of the lead edge on like people
putting with their wedges, it starts rolling immediately. With most putters,
it slides a little bit. Yeah. So this is about
twenty seven feet uphill, break right to left. Look at this.
Whoh your first putt really nice, just on the high
side of the hole. Passed it by about eighteen inches.
Good line on this one, a little bit short by
about three.
Speaker 1: Feet, and I still didn't hit it.
Speaker 2: A little bit short again, low side. What's your index? Mike?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 2: Right now?
Speaker 5: It's fifteen okay, Yeah, how's your putting? Usually my putting
is inconsistent at best, but you're still putting with the
same putter after ten years. Yes, it's what did they
say about insanity?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You're going to figure out at some point.
So any reviews, what do you what you're con.
Speaker 1: I like it. The only thing I would change is
the grip.
Speaker 5: Is the grip really? Let me try this. I would
like to try putting that off the fringe.
Speaker 2: Oh that's an interesting idea. Yeah, because of that lead
edge being high.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so even into the ruff a little bit, can
you put it?
Speaker 2: So let's take a little more level here. Okay, that's interesting.
He's like, there's the first cut and then the rough
and he's about three inches into the rough. Yeah, and
the ball bounced up out of the rough on that
first one came up short about four.
Speaker 1: Or five feet. It does bounce, bounces up.
Speaker 2: Interesting, And this is about a fifteen foot put That's
real good. That's real good.
Speaker 1: Once you get used to it. I think it's fine.
Speaker 5: I what I'm trying to do is put that club,
my regular putter under it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you don't have to do that with this.
Let me try.
Speaker 2: That's not a putt that you have frequently in your game.
You're just short of the green at a fifteen index. Yeah,
I have a lot of puts from off the green.
Speaker 1: It definitely gets true.
Speaker 2: Yeah it does. Look at this oh.
Speaker 1: Just a little too firm and just under the hole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one popped up. Take your putter off the
green and show me what happens with this one.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was your best put off from off the
green because that's your putter. All right.
Speaker 2: Nice to meet, great to meet you, Thanks so much.
So I found that absolutely fascinating. Did these two random?
I literally random? I just walked them excuse me? Can
I talk to you? And never saw these guys before,
but they both they were both intrigued by it. They
both liked it. I loved the idea of the second guy.
I think it was Mike taking it off into the rough.
It's like, oh wait a minute, that makes a lot
of sense because you know this, you know, if you're
putting with a wedge, you want to strike the ball.
And even as I was watching the Players Championship this weekend,
whole seven.
Speaker 3: Three time, they'd all rolled Lucas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it rolled and stop right at the edge.
Speaker 3: Now that is I was waiting for Brad.
Speaker 2: That's hell for all.
Speaker 3: If you need a spoiler. He just didn't say it
if on are because he knows it's out there. He's
commented on it before. But yeah, it's great for right
up there, right up against like the Yeah, I would
first cut and the green like that is. It's wonderful
there out of the rough. It does take some getting used.
You actually to me, I have to play it a
little further back in my stance just because I want
to try and kind of really want to make certain
that I'm hitting either the top of the ball or
right at the equator. If you hit under a leath
it a little bit, it'll do what it sounds like
that second gentleman did pop up a little bit before
it starts rolling there, because I mean, it's definitely a
smaller leading edge on it on that on that face,
so you need to be very conscious of where your
contact point is on the golf ball. It's really fun
though that they yeah, that he wanted to go do that,
because a lot of people will send us messages as
well or call us and ask Kate, how does it
work off the green. I'm like, it works tremendously well, right,
You just need to play around with it. And I
think it's the same with you know, with any putter,
really like you need to get comfortable with it. Ours
definitely looks different, but I promise it rolls or rolls
better than anything else out there.
Speaker 2: As did I represent it? Well?
Speaker 3: What's that?
Speaker 2: I mean? You heard me representing your putter to these
other people that are right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like, did I miss any point?
Speaker 3: No? And I I I actually I appreciate when people
know nothing about it too and then just roll it right.
And because to me, that's a lot of the reason
why we haven't even approached like big box retailers or anything,
because it's hard if you see this sitting on the
ground somewhere and golf, the alex here, PGA superstoreg what's that? Yeah,
and write it off as a gimmick. And so you know,
we're doing a lot right now to make certain that
we're not written off as a gimmick. We didn't build
this to just be different for the hell of being different.
We did it because there's.
Speaker 2: I can't afford that.
Speaker 3: No, And this is a business. It's a business, and
it it truly rolls the ball better and it just
looks different. But that's how we got to that end result.
So you know, a lot of it is we've got
to make sure that we're kind of still controlling the
message to the consumer, which is why we do everything
D two C right now.
Speaker 2: And direct to consumer. That's exactly what Still.
Speaker 3: We get to a point where we're a little more mainstream.
I went down the PGAHO this year. We didn't have
a booth, but you know, went down out, yeah, and
I wanted to meet with people, and I had some
meetings set up and some vendors and some manufacturers that
I needed to meet with down there. So I went
and met there, and you know, when I talked to
a few people like, yeah, I'm Danni with spoiler often
I've never heard of it, never heard of it. And
I was like, well, like these are the people of
golf and they haven't heard of it. But you know,
if you like, we sold out last year. Our Instagram account,
you know, went from zero to almost thirty thousand followers.
Speaker 2: In a year.
Speaker 3: Given a lot of tracks, We've had a lot of
a lot of videos that have got millions of views,
and so I think people, I think more people have
heard of us than truly have, you know, So it's
still there's a long way to go until we can
get right enough people to hear about us, to give
us a try, and and again once they give us
a try. If everyone doesn't love it, I'm okay, but
I want to make sure that the ones that do
love it. And last year, if it's any indication, I mean,
we had very very very low return rates, like you know,
single less low single digits, and you know we we
expected a lot more than that for being a very
new product, different product and only about online. So we
feel good with where we are right now. But it's
a matter of getting it out there. Like you didn't
just on a green I mean I do that all
the time, right, give me your feedback because that's the
other thing too, Like all last year to me was
it was a huge focus group, right, you know, we
bought our inventory, and then it was let's learn as
much as we can. You know, what's the feedback, the
grip feedback. I heard that a million times. We have
brand new, thicker, nicer grips custom work work for us.
This year. We got the same thing with the head cover.
We got new brand new head covers coming out that
are nicer, leather, more heavy duty, better stitching, the grip
is probably twice as big, and like I said, it's
going to have our logo on it, so it's all
custom for us. So you know, we're making small improvements
like that, you know, until and we'll continue to listen
to customer too. Like the center shafted that I won't
be a huge fan of, but maybe it'll change my mind.
Speaker 2: Is there any incentive that you can provide to the
Golf s Murder community, you know what I mean? Like
you're getting your the word out there. You've got an
interest of a lot of people who are now listening.
Do you have any incentive for them to come to you?
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely no, and thank you for having me on
this podcast. It's I've listened to it a bunch. Obviously
Joe introduced me to you. But yeah, for any any
lesser of golf Smarter, you know, if they want to
make a purchase. We've been waiting to be in stock.
Ran out of stock last year. We ran into some
issues with tariffs and things all right, So.
Speaker 2: We're now talking in mid March here, so by the
time people hear this, you'll probably have things hopefully back
in stock.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, tomorrow, we'll be back in stock.
Speaker 2: Oh all right. So then by the time this thing publishes,
you've got stock. All right.
Speaker 3: So so for any Golf Smarter listener out there, yeah,
we can do ten percent off. For anybody who wants
to give this a try. I'll send I'll send you
the code, Fred and you can do with it as
you will, but it'll be golf Smarter ten They can
use it when they go.
Speaker 2: Just make it golf smarter.
Speaker 3: Just make it easy, all right. Let's just we're going
to make the code golf Prter Moody, who yeah, hears
about us through this podcast and wants to give us
a try, so.
Speaker 2: On the coupon code. So just go to spoiler golf
dot com when you check out, check out, check out
the whole site, and when you're checking out, put in
golf Smarter and you'll be getting ten percent office right,
you're Spoiler Golf button.
Speaker 3: Absolutely and training it and hopefully you're back. Yeah. And
how people want to use it, We're all here for it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, take one home and check it out and you
got a thirty day You got a thirty day money
back here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, awesactly want people to love it.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day.
Speaker 2: Fabulous, Dan, Thank you so much. I'm really impressed. I'm
excited for you guys. I hope this works way beyond
your expectations too, and anything that we can do to
give you a little bit of a push, I'm happy
to do it. Thank you, man, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Appreciate taking the time and always
fun chatting with you.