Speaker 1: I was listening to the story about It was the
story of a family in Washington and the little boy
called the big Foot the cowboy man, and he had
apparently it had made an effort to steal this kid.
And it hit me. My children were in that play
pen behind me. It was nothing but a mosquito net
with it could have crept up behind me and taken
both of my children, and.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't know.
Speaker 3: His father just got like a Mustang or something from Wyoming, Okay.
He had it out in the corral because he couldn't
put it in the barn with in the stalls with
the other horses. It would kick and made all the
other horses nervous. At a seminal Indian work in the
horse trying to break it. Every day they had it
out in the corral. The skunky snunk up behind his
horse and grabbed it bonnets, hindquarters. This particular horse that
kicks out, jumps over the corral, runs to the picture,
you know, to get away. At this point, the ranchers
out there just blessed away with the thirty thirty suncavee
one at the swamp.
Speaker 2: I went up there one day after that or two
days after that, I went up there and sat in
the silence up there, and I'm telling you, man, it
was free. It was crazy, you know it was. There
was a crazy vibe up there.
Speaker 4: Still.
Speaker 2: I did what I could to kind of get things
under control. But I told her, I said, you need
to get off this problem. I feel like, no matter
how strong you are, it's almos like standing in the ocean.
You can't stand still without moving your feet. You're going
to get knocked over eventually. No matter how strong whatever,
you can't withstand a barrage of of weird spiritual energy.
Speaker 5: Well is up, everybody? Look com paranormal honesty. I am
your host Wayne, joined as always by my partner, and
I'm the lovely and talented miss Tiffany. What's up man?
Speaker 4: Not too much? I feel like I'm short. I think
how I think my chairs lowered to I just realized
that I've been in here with you for how long?
Are I just not realize that I'm really short? But
that's okay. I'm here.
Speaker 5: You are really short.
Speaker 1: I am really.
Speaker 4: I think I need to put myself up or something,
and I think my chair is low.
Speaker 5: Why don't you grow a little bit? Well?
Speaker 4: I'm fun sized. Okay, I quit growing at.
Speaker 5: Five fool, well is about that I am.
Speaker 4: He has to look down on me, and he's always like,
oh my god, you're so short.
Speaker 5: I'm like, shut up, everybody, thank you so much for
hanging out with us tonight. Uh doing a little bit
doing something a little bit different. Tonight. We have no
guests lined up. We are going to be covering a
missing person's case. This one. You eat you guys that
have all of us for a while now. You you
know that we like to talk about missing person cases
every once in a while, but I don't think that
we've ever done a live show dedicated to just missing people.
But this one tonight, guys, it's it's creepy, it's haunting,
it's horrifying. Something happened to these young ladies overseas and
Panama that ten years later, we're still trying to get
to the bottom of. You know, we just don't know.
So many people have covered this case, and I've known
ever since that we started doing the missing person's case
files that eventually I was going to cover this case,
but I wanted to save it for something like this,
like a special. I didn't want to do like a
thirty minute video on it where you know, we just
talk about it. Something happened to these young ladies in
the prime of their life. It's it's horrifying being I'm
a father. I've got two daughters. I've got a daughter
that's around the age of these young ladies when they
went missing, and I just could not imagine. I can't
imagine what their parents went through, what they're still going
through ten years later, with zero answers. Something happened to
these young ladies. And we're not going to get to
the bottom of it because no one's been able to yet.
We're not going to do it on this show, but
I hope one day that that family will get some answers.
What did you think about this case?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I concur because both of our older children are
in the same age range of these two young ladies.
So it's there's a lot of red flags and there's
a lot of room for speculation, there's a lot of
room for theories. But the fact of the matter is
is out of all the speculation and all the theories,
we have no conclusion none at all.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I mean very well said. So we Uh,
I've got a video that we it's not a video.
I'm gonna play the audio because the last time we
tried to play the video on a live show, we
got penalized. So hopefully if I just play the audio,
you guys get the same effect just listening to it
instead of actually seeing it without getting in trouble. So
hopefully we can do that.
Speaker 4: It's Chris Kramer, and listen, Foon.
Speaker 5: Listen for him. That's right. But yeah, these two ladies
were in their early twenties when they decided that they
became really good friends. They wanted to do some traveling
and that's what they kind of bonded over. They saved
up their money and they wanted to go on this
trip to Panama. They were going over there. I mean,
these ladies, they weren't just going over over there at
a party. They were going over there to volunteer their time.
They were going to help teach like students and just
they were learning Spanish and they just seemed like really
really awesome young ladies. They really did. Their lives were
cut tragically short. Do you want to talk a little
bit about the case, Tiffany.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's like Wayne said, they were going
over there to teach I think they were teaching the
students English, but I know that they themselves were also
going over there to learn some Spanish. And I mean
they had the purest of intentions going over there. I mean, yes,
they're in their twenties. Yes, that's when you party and
you do stupid stuff, but I mean these were solid
minded women essentially, and they go on a hike and
that was the last anybody's seen of them. They were
staying with a host family and they didn't come back home.
Speaker 5: Yeah, tragically they didn't. There's so many, so many things
that happened in this story. I'm gonna go ahead and
go ahead and put it out there myself. I don't
think this was an accident. I think these ladies were
met without play in one way or another. We're gonna
be talking about a couple of different things that might
have happened to them. I've got about a twenty five
minute clip that I'm going to play for you guys
that will do a much better job than Tiffany and
I in like breaking you in to this case, bringing
you in from the ground level and giving you a
full idea. So I'm going to play that. It's not
a video it's completely audio, so you guys let me
know if you can hear it. Okay, But after that
is over, Tiffany and I will be back to talk
about what we think happened. And you guys be coming up.
If you have heard about this case, if you have
any opinions, please be ready to let us know what
you think. But I'm going to go ahead and start
the clip.
Speaker 7: On the morning of the first of April twenty fourteen,
two young women decided to hike up to a popular
tourist spot on the famous Pianist to Trail. They were
never seen alive again. Were there deaths the result of
a tragic accident, or is there more to this mystery
that meets the eye? What happened to the lost girls
of Panama? It is said that every year, in those
first few weeks, when the rains begin to fall over
the rolling hills of the Green Mountain Highlands, that if
you listen very closely, you will hear the echoed cries
of Leschicus Hollandsas it is nothing more than a local superstition,
But for the people of a small town nestled in
a valley on the southern flank of the continental divide,
those cries are both clear and dominous. The name of
this small town is Bokeetae, and it belongs to a
region of Panama which has often been described as Little Switzerland.
Its stunning pine forests, crystal clear lakes, and steep pastures
are highly reminiscent of those Swiss landscapes, presenting an idyllic
beauty which seems to reinforce Panama's very distinction of being
Central America's safest nation. For how could anything bad happen
in amongst all that splendor? At least, that is the
impression two young women had when they decided to visit
this part of the world. Lizana Frown and Chris Kramersh
had saved up for months to take the holiday of
a lifetime, a six week long tour of the tropical
paradise that is the Isthmus of Panama. Their stay was
to be more than a simple vacation, as they planned
to learn fluent Spanish and partake in volunteer work whilst
they were there. As they boarded their flight on the
fifteenth of March twenty fourteen, they no doubt did so
with the feeling of excitement and anticipation, oblivious to the
tragedy that awaited them. Two weeks after landing at Tokiomen
International Airport, they would hike up into the heavenly cloud
forests of the Green Mountain Highlands and never return. It
would be months before any trace of them was found,
and those traces would leave behind a truly haunting mystery
which divides opinion to this day. Found in amongst their
recovered belongings was a camera which would provide a tiny
window into their final days and leave us wondering was
it just a tragic accident or did something far more
sinister occur? It is not a question we can answer,
but one we can at least elaborate upon. So let
us go back to where it all started, with two
young ladies who would later become known as Les Chicas
houlendesas the Dutch Girls, Lisanna and Chris. Lizana Frown was
born on the twenty fourth of September nineteen ninety one.
Standing at six feet tall, she was described as athletic
and adventurous. She was a keen member of her college
volleyball team and had also dabbled in more extreme endeavors
such as mountaineering. And skydiving. Lizana was also highly intelligent,
having graduated from Saxeon Universe with a degree in applied psychology.
During her studies, she had developed a passion for amateur
photography and had purchased a camera so that she could
further indulge in her newfound hobby. As she had spent
her whole life in Ameshfort, a municipality in Utrecht Province
of the Netherlands, she longed to travel the world, and
it was through this desire that she befriended a young
lady named Chris Kramers. Chris was born on the ninth
of August nineteen ninety two, and where Lazana was a
bit of an introvert, Chris was the exact opposite. Her
outgoing nature was reflected in her love of the arts.
She was an amateur actress and was on the verge
of graduating in art history at the University of Utrecht.
Friends and relatives spoke highly of her open, friendly nature
and her great sense of humor. She was the kind
of person that would do anything for anyone if they
were in need. Chris met Lasana whilst working part time
at a cafe in Amishfort, and the pair bonded quickly
due to their mutual interest in traveling. As friends, they
soon became inseparable, and they planned to take a trip
to Central America as soon as they had saved up
enough money. But as they were penniless students, they had
to cut their respective living costs, and so moved into
an apartment together to help raise those funds. Within six months,
they had booked their flight to Panama and kissed their
families goodbye with an unspoken promise to return. Of course,
they couldn't have known that they would break that promise
just as completely as they would break the hearts of
those they loved. Two weeks of their holiday sightseeing and
taking part in leisure activities before moving on to the
real purpose of their trip. As mentioned previously, they wanted
to learn fluent Spanish and had applied for jobs in
order to accomplish this quickly. It just so happened that
a school in the small town of Bouquetta in West
Panama had been looking for volunteer social workers to help
out with the children's studies. This had all been arranged
when they first booked the holiday, and they were under
the impression that they were due to start their jobs
at the school on the thirty first of March twenty fourteen. However,
when they arrived on this date, they were told rather
bluntly that they were seven days early. Now at a
loose end, and with the whole week to kill, they
decided to explore the Green Mountain Highlands and Vulcan Baru
National Park, which were just as stone's throw away from Bokeeta.
They had it in mind to hike up to the
Continental Divide, a point which separates the watersheds that flow
into the Pacific Ocean to the south and Caribbean Sea
to the north. At one thousand, eight hundred and fifty
metres above sea level, the Mirror Door or Lookout sits
right on the cusp of the Continental Divide and offers
stunning three hundred and sixty degree panoramas which stretch all
the way to the horizon. The main route lead up
to the Mirrodor is known as the Pianist Trail, which
is highly popular with tourists not only for its population
of tropical birds and its breathtaking vistas, but also because
the trail cuts through the region's famous cloud forests. These
are dense woodlands, most of which are quite literally situated
inside the cloud layer due to their altitude, which gives
them an almost ethereal appearance. It is no wonder that
this turned out to be Chris and Lausanna's first port
of call. Unfortunately for them, it would also be their last.
On the morning of the first of April, they were
seen having brunch at around ten a m with two
other men, also Dutch nationals, whom they had befriended shortly
after arriving in Baqueta. This was the last time anyone
decisively recalled seeing them. A few people told police that
they thought they had seen them on the Pianista trail
later that day, but these reports were unconfirmed. In any case,
they made a final post on Facebook stating their intention
to walk around Bakhetti and then set off for the
Mirrordor as soon as they had finished their meal. Along
the way, they were accompanied by a dog named Blue,
the household pet of the family they were lodging. With
time stamps on recovered photos, when matched by location, suggested
that they made excellent time and that they had arrived
at the Continental Divide by one pm that afternoon. The
pictures also indicated that the weather was bright and sunny,
and views from the Mirrordor were clear and far reaching.
What was obvious was that the two women had dressed
and packed relatively light, definitely not intending to take an
extended hike. The first signs that something was up emerged
later that evening, when Blue returned home by himself. Chris
and Lisana were nowhere to be seen. The next day,
they failed to show up for a pre booked appointment
with a local tour guide, which raised further alarm within
the community. Meanwhile, back in the Netherlands, the girl's families
had stopped receiving text messages, which had been a daily
occurrence up until that point. On the third of April,
residents from the town began a ground search for the
two young women, whilst local authorities made aerial sweeps. The
participation of local authorities is actually a point of contention
amongst investigators. Whilst official search and rescue teams are adamant
that their involvement began on the third, many stakeholders, including townsfolk,
flatly reject this claim and instead state that they did
not get involved until many days later on the sixth. Coincidentally,
This is also the date on which police detectives, dog
teams and the girls' families arrived from the Netherlands to
assist in the search. Despite the concerted effort by hundreds
of people, as well as the offer of a thirty
thousand dollars award by family members, nobody found a single
trace of the two young women. After ten days the
official search which came to an end, but many townspeople
still took it upon themselves to continue looking. It was
all to no avail. Chris and Lasanna had seemingly vanished
into thin air. Ten weeks passed by, and long after
all other searches had ceased, a member of the indigenous
Ngobi tribe walked into Bouqueta carrying Lizana's blue backpack and
some of the girl's other belongings. She handed it in
to the local police department, saying that she had found
it on the bank of a river near her village
of Alto Romero. It was close to a rice paddy
where she had been working, and she indicated that it
had not been there the day before. This suggested it
had washed up on the river bank sometime during the
previous evening when authorities checked the contents of the backpack.
They found two pairs of sunglasses, a water bottle, eighty
three dollars in cash, Lizana's passport, her camera, two pairs
of bras, and both women's mobile phones. Everything was dry
and the camera and phones were still in working order,
somewhat contradicting the possibility that the backpack had been washed downstream.
Authorities immediately began an extensive search of the area and
located Chris's gene shorts about a mile upstream from where
the backpack was discovered. Some people say that they were
found zipped and neatly folded on top of a rock,
whilst others contend that they were found floating in the
river itself. One of Chris's empty boots was also located
in the same area. If the discovery of clothing and
apparel had been a reason to panic, nothing would bear
the families for what came next. Over the next two months,
up to thirty three bone fragments were found scattered over
a small area, including a piece of Lazana's pelvis, as
well as one of her boots with her foot bones
still inside. Fragments of Chris's bones were also found relatively
close by, along with those of three other unidentified individuals.
This came as something of a shock to those close
to the case, and suspicions of foul play began to
weigh heavily on everyone's minds. In the meantime, police had
been checking the contents of both the phones and the camera.
It was discovered that between the dates of the first
and third of April, the girls had made a total
of seven failed attempts to call emergency services, the first
call being placed only a few hours after they had
reached the mirror door on the day of their hike,
at sixteen thirty nine in the afternoon. After the third
of April, the phones were only ever powered on to
carry out signal checks. No further attempts to call emergency
services were made. It is believed that Lazanna's phone ran
out of battery on the fifth, as it was not
turned on again after this date. On the sixth, Chris's
phone was powered on, but the access pin was entered
incorrectly for the first time. In fact, a total of
seventy seven attempts to access the phone were made between
the seventh and tenth of APIs, but all were unsuccessful.
This phone was switched on again on the eleventh for
a signal check, and was left active for just over
an hour before being switched off for the final time.
The phones were not accessed again after this date. The
most chilling aspect of the entire case, however, would be
the one hundred or so photographs that were found on
Lazana's camera. The first eleven images were ordinary enough. Taken
on the first of April, they showed the girls walking
along the trail, taking selfies and generally enjoying the hike.
But as the afternoon wore on, the last few of
these images begin to exhibit a different mood. Pictures taken
from behind Chris show her looking back at Lasana with
an uncertain expression. The camera was not used again from
the second to the seventh of April, but in the
early hours of the eighth, between one am and four
am in the morning, more than ninety photos were taken
in complete darkness. Neither of the women are featured in
these images, apart from a close up of Chris's strawberry
blonde hair with what looks like dried blood on her skin.
What they do show are snapshots of the dark jungle interior,
most of which are aimed at nothing in particular, although
a few of them do seem to have a purpose
in mind. Some show twigs and reflective materials laid out
in deliberate patterns, others with plastic bags hooked onto branches.
One is even believed to have been taken from the
top of a ravine, looking down upon a body lying
at the bottom, but it is far too dark to
be conclusive even after enhancement. All in all, the images
add a somewhat bizarre element to the case, but unfortunately
they present far more questions than they do answers. So
what happened to these two young women during the days
after they went missing. The most prominent theory is that
they took a wrong turn whilst on the Continental divide,
and instead of heading back down towards Bouchetae on the
south side, they moved into the much deeper wilderness to
the north. Once they realized they had become lost, they
tried calling emergency services but were unsuccessful. They probably continued
moving downhill in this direction, hoping they would find their
way out or stumble upon a settlement. But unknown to
Chris and Lisana, the only thing that awaited them was
even more notoriously difficult to rain, with a lot of
almost impassable ravines. It is believed that on the fifth
of April, Chris suffered a terrible, perhaps even fatal accident.
The fact that the person who tried to access her
phone on the sixth did not know the pin suggests
that this was probably Lisanna. Chris must have been either
unconscious or dead at this point, otherwise she would have
been able to just tell her friend what the PIN
number was. There is a possibility that Lizana stayed with
the dead or dying Chris for some time, not wanting
to leave her alone. When she at last decided to
move on, she placed markers indicating where Chris's body was
located in case she made it out alive and had
to guide rescuers back in to retrieve her body, and
this was believed to be the purpose of the nighttime photos.
Either that or she was using the flash as a
light source as she walked through the forest in darkness,
which would have been highly dangerous. In any case, Luzanna
probably survived a few more days. This was supported by
the fact that Chris's phone was powered on again on
the eleventh However, she must have eventually succumbed to starvation
or dehydration soon afterwards, or suffered an accident of her own.
The bones found inside her boot indicated that she had
broken her foot at some point, suggesting she had suffered
a trip or fall. The bodies of the two women
were then at the mercy of scavengers, and their remains
were more than likely washed downstream towards Altromero. Despite being
a relatively plausible explanation, there are a number of issues
with this theory. First of all, how could the girls
have taken a wrong turn whilst on the continental divide.
The north facing slopes are much steeper than the south
and it would have been obvious that this was not
the way they had come. Secondly, from the mirror dor,
the Pianista trail is easily recognizable, and you can even
see the town of Buketay lying in the valley below
from this altitude, So why did they travel in the
opposite direction? Could they have been forced into going this way?
Foul play has never been ruled out of this case,
and although evidence regarding their phone usage seems to contradict
the involvement of a third party, there are other possibilities.
A kidnapper would never have allowed the two women to
keep hold of their phones, so it is unlikely that
they were ever abducted, But what if they had been followed.
According to an article published in twenty sixteen by The
Daily Beast, there is apparently a tour guide in Buketay
who many locals suspect as having something to do with
the deaths of the two women. He was not named,
but it is known that he had met with Lazanna
and Chris less than twenty four hours before they disappeared.
He had offered them a full tour package, including a
guided Hi cup to the Continental Divide, plus an overnight
stay at his ranch on the other side of the mountains.
For reasons known only to themselves, the girls declined his
offer and decided to walk the Pianista trail alone. This
particular tour guide has a reputation in the town for
being overly friendly towards female tourists. In fact, even some
hikers who have visited the region mentioned on Reddit when
discussing this case, that this same tour guide had behaved
inappropriately towards their own girlfriends, petting them and touching them.
Could this man have taken Chris and Lausanna's rejection as
a slight. Could he have followed them up the Pianista
trail and have scared them into seeking another route down?
After all, he was the one who first discovered their remains,
and what's more, they were located less than half a
mile from his ranch. Fish and is regarding a third
party do not end there. When forensics examined Lisanna's backpack,
they discovered more than thirty sets of fingerprints on it.
Whilst it is possible that the lady who found the
bag may have passed it around her village before handing
it in to police, this was never confirmed. Another unusual
aspect is the lack of grease on the backpack and
items of recovered clothing. As a body decomposes, grease evacuates
the soft tissues and soaks into whatever the cadaver is wearing,
and one would expect this to have been found on
the girl's apparel if they had died as the result
of an accident. There were also questions raised over the
condition of some of the remains. Chris's bones looked as
if they had been bleached, which was not in accordance
with the rate of decay and seemed unlikely given the
covering of the forest canopy. However, this depends entirely on
where her bones were located. If they had been washed
up on the bank of a river, for instance, which
received more sunlight, it is not incomprehensible for them to
have been bleached in the intense rays over a period
of months. On the other hand, there were no markings
on the bones whatsoever. If the bodies had fallen victim
to scavengers after death, teeth marks and other minuscular brasions
would have been detected under a microscope, but there were none.
The lack of any big bones is also troubling for
many investigators. Why didn't they find any significant remains? As
one of the most prominent guides in Buchette was quoted
as saying, there are no animals up there that would
eat a skull, so where are the rest of Chris
and Lusanna's bodies? Other pertinent questions regarding the deletion of
a picture on the camera also points to the possibility
of something more sinister. Image five oh nine, which sits
in between the final daytime photo taken on the first
and the first nighttime photo taken on the eighth seemed
to be missing, but it's on clear whether this was
deleted by one of the girls or another party later on,
perhaps to hide something. It should come as no surprise
that many people in the town suspect to cover up,
as tourism accounts for almost four billion dollars a year
eighteen percent of Panama's GDP Residents insist that the accident
scenario has been overly pushed by local authorities rather than
one involving foul play in order to protect that income.
Especially since the deaths of Chris and Lsana, it is
now believed that there may be a serial killer at
large in the area. There have been up to twenty
five deaths and disappearances in the region which remain unsolved,
two thirds of which have occurred over the last three years.
This makes one wonder who the other three individuals were
whose remains were found along with the girls, but authorities
simply explain this by saying that the terrain on that
side of the divide is very dangerous. Even the indigenous
peoples are wary of traversing that part of the region,
and many have died crossing the monkey bridges which Chris
crossed the ravines. There are many more theories out there,
of course, Some believe the girls were eaten by pygmy
cannibals or killed for their organs by traffickers. Some even
favor a supernatural explanation and have noted similarities with missing
for one one cases. But as it stands, the deaths
of Chris Kramer's and Zanna Frown were more than likely
a tragic accident, although it seems that there are far
too many questions hanging over this case to conclude this
with any certainty. Too many bizarre elements, such as while
Lizanna took those photos at night and not in the daytime,
what was she trying to tell us? Was she simply
trying to find her way in the dark, or possibly
even scare off wild animals. Was she so sleep deprived
and dehydrated by this time that she was possibly hallucinating?
And was it even her who took the photographs at all? Fortunately,
we'll probably never know why Chris and Lazana decided to
pass over to the other side of the divide. Maybe
they took a wrong turn, maybe they were forced, or
maybe they just felt over confident and wanted to explore Further,
simply put, what we have here is a case of
two young women getting lost in the jungle, desperately needing
assistance and never receiving any One can only imagine the
fear and dinner turmoil they must have felt, wandering through
the untamed lands of a foreign country in the dead
of night, starving and dehydrated, and panicking at every sound,
and that is terrifying enough. The world has lost two
more bright and beautiful human beings in Chris Kramer's and
Lizanna frown. We can only wonder what they might be
doing now, what they might have achieved in their lives
if only they had turned back towards Bouqueta on that
fateful afternoon. Our hearts go out to their families. May
they forever rest in peace.
Speaker 5: Stay tuned for more Paranormal Odyssey. There you go. For
those of you that weren't familiar with this case, you
are a little bit more now. It's just heartbreaking. I
believe Troy asked at some point during the video which
one was which Lesanne I think was the taller, the
six foot tall, and then Chris was the shorter one.
Either way, both young, very smart, very pretty personable, young
women that were taken. I mean the lots of someone's eyes.
Their parents loved them, you know, they did their siblings,
if they had any I mean boyfriend. I know I
think Lessay had a boyfriend. What's going through his mind
while all that's going on? You know what's happening to
my girlfriend? It's it's just heartbreaking. I mean, my daughter
Sydney is I mean, she was born in twenty she's
twenty four now, she just turned twenty four. I cannot
imagine being forced to live this life knowing that something
happened to her and I couldn't help her, and I
don't even know what happened to her. It's it's awful.
It's terrifying. Tiffany, I know you looked into it a
lot in preparation for this. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4: Well, there were some things that were mentioned on there.
I mean that you have brought up, but I hadn't
found when I was researching it, Like with the you know,
you had talked before the show about the tour guide
and you know he was a little bit two. I
mean I could see them saying, no, fam, We're we're good,
We're gonna go on this way. Maybe he did spook
them into going the wrong way and he could have
just followed him anyway. I mean, but again, my daughter
too was born in two thousand. She turned twenty four
in August, so Kaylee's twenty five. I mean, it's there's
there's a lot more questions than there are answers. But
what I did find is I think it was Lessan's
parents actually went to Panama and they took some of
the Dutch National Guards with them. Nobody could find them.
There are two women who posted an article in twenty
twenty three that they were planning on going up there
to look for the rest of their remains. I on
their own dollar, We're just gonna go because there's supposed
to be a dam in that river that they were
talking about. And they're like, well, if any of their
remains are still there, they're going to be right there
at the dam. So they were actually planning on going
up there. I didn't find if they did or not,
but they were planning on going up there. But there's
so many questions, like with the backpack, why why does
anybody think that you can put a waterproof, a non
waterproof book bag into a river and have the dry backpack,
the camera that's not damaged, the phones that are not damaged,
and what the hell is it with the seventy seven
incorrect access codes?
Speaker 5: That's it, that's it. You just right on the fucking nose, Tiffany,
You just hit it. Why why was a set over
seventy attempts to enter this young lady's passcode for her phone?
And you and I talked about this. It's one of
the things that we talked about before we came on.
If your best friend and you do y'all know each
other's passcodes? Most of the time, I would say, yes,
y'all know each others. So if you're incapacitated, if there
was an accident and you fail and you're unconscious, I
think that your friend knows that your knows your passcode
and able to get help. Why Why does someone take
seventy something attempts and never does get access to it?
That is but again, everybody, Yeah, that's not everybody. I
can't speak for everyone. I mean, some people are really
really private with their stuff. But I'm thinking girls, best friends,
they don't care to share their past code, right right?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I know everybody everybody, of course, I mean we're family.
But I mean, I don't ever have anything to hide
and just pick up my phone or in my passcode
and you know, do what they need to do. But
you know, if they're if they're you know, bunking together
and they're splitting the costs, and you know, I would
think or I would like to think that they would
have shared each other's passcode just in case something happens.
But they were not prepared to stay out there for
any length of time. I mean, they'd planned on being
back at their host house by that evening. I mean,
they only had one bottle of water between the two
of them, and no doubt, I mean the reason why
the phones were being turned off was just to conserve battery,
and then they only, you know, only turned it on
to try to call none one one repeatedly.
Speaker 5: There are a couple of theirs that are bouncing around
the video that we shared with you. The clip that
we shared with you guys didn't really go into They
did a little bit about the tour guide. I have
looked in a little bit about this tour guide. This
dude was creepy as fuck. I mean, I think he
had a record. He was known for making advances toward women,
and if this guy had anything to do with it,
I don't think anything good would have come from that.
Speaker 4: No, one hundred percent not. And if he has a
record and he is known to do that, why are
you letting him work for you? Why are you letting
him be a tour God? That's creepy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, and again, this isn't the US. I mean,
we do vet our employees a little bit better. But yeah,
you're exactly right. Another thing I heard, and Tiffany, I
don't know if you heard any of this in your research.
Supposedly there's a gang that operates over there, and one
of them, I don't know which one. I think Lesane
had the boyfriend she was committed to, so I don't
think it was her, But the other one, Chris, may
have had something to do with. She may have met
this gentleman over there that she was had felt a
connection to or whatever. But he was a gang member
and it's reported now there are police and detectives and
people that have looked into this, that have followed up
to this that say that one of them had some
kind of dealings with this person that was a reported
gang member, and it's believed that they ran into this
person or another member of the gang on the trail.
They went back with them to a party and advances
were made towards one of them which were refuted that
she didn't want anything to do with it, and that
didn't end well, and both of them ended up dead.
I have I wish that I would have written down
where I heard this, But someone has followed this lead
over there and they said that a person, that a
young man that first came out with this story ended
up dead due to mysterious circumstances. That led to another
young man who in turn ended up dead due to
mysterious circumstances murdered. Both of these guys were murdered, and
it was said that they had information about these two women.
Did you hear any Did you find anything like that?
I know, Again, again, all of the studying, all of
the looking, in the researching that I have done, which
is quite a bit, I only saw that in a
couple places. But people are more scary than cryptids. People
are more scary than ghosts than paranormal stuff. I would
rather deal with any of that than a crazy person exactly.
And I think that that's what happened to these young ladies.
Speaker 4: Well, let's look at the let's look at the bones. Okay,
So Chris Kremer, it was her pelvis that was found.
It was said to have been bleached. So but in
that time period, like it said, it would not have
been able to have been bleached the way that they're saying. Yeah,
Lesand's foot was found. Her boot was found, and then
her foot was found in her boot. So from what
I heard, they found her boot and her foot in
the Okay, this is the jungle guy. So the jungle.
They found her foot behind a like behind a bush,
kind of situated behind a tree. First off, it's the jungle.
Are you just gonna have some kind of radar detection
that goes off and says, hey, there's a shoe every
you're just get a foot in it. No, But it
was like I think I've read somewhere it was like
a cli cut.
Speaker 5: Yeah I read that too.
Speaker 4: It was not jagged, it was not not surgical.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's like you know, and I think it
was Mike who had said did he have an operating
room in his basement? This tour guide? I mean, how
do you get a clink surgical precision clean cut. I
don't get that part at all. And the and the pictures,
the five oh nine, okay, five o nine had been deleted,
and when they took the SD card out, it showed
that it still had some data on it. So from
what I heard is when you take the SD card out,
there's some some data still on it. However, it looked
to have been deleted by a computer. Mm hmm, there's
no computer. They didn't have a computer.
Speaker 5: Were walking around with a computer.
Speaker 4: Right exactly when it's like Chris said, the bleach bone
sounds like a serial killer, you know, pour some asset
on it.
Speaker 5: But I stop thinking has happened. Something happened to these
young ladies, and someone out there knows the truth. And
this one, I don't a lot of the things that
we covered, Tiffany. I think I have this feeling we
will never know the answer this one. I think I
feel like we will eventually.
Speaker 4: I think so someone.
Speaker 5: Knows what happened and they will come forward.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so. I think there's like these two
women who are invested enough in this case to go
and look for the rest of their remains. I mean,
who's to say, I mean, they could find them and
you know, it could be solved then, but there's so
many like the what was that one hundred pictures or
ninety pictures that were taken? You know, if Chris died
April fifth and Lysanne didn't, because there's speculation that they
were taking the picture was taking the pictures either to
at night to alert somebody of their whereabouts because the
flash was going.
Speaker 5: Off, or to see where they were going, or to
scare something off.
Speaker 4: Right, There's just so many what ifs, There's so many questions.
Speaker 5: Can you just imagine take a second, everybody, take a
second and imagine put yourself in their shoes, how terrified
you would be. I mean, there's been times here in Tennessee, Georgia,
you know, in my surrounding areas that I've been camping
and I've been scared. But could you could you imagine
being in a place that you're not familiar with, the woods,
the jungle, and someone's trying to bring you horm Just yeah,
it sounds ritual. I mean, it's terrifying. Guys. I hate,
I hate that these young ladies went through that. I
can't stand it. Well, I mean, and again, let's look
at this, these two ladies they were young, they were
pretty they were foreign, they weren't you know, uh, they
weren't used to the area. They were new to the area.
So and I think they come from pretty well to
do families. They're getting attention. What's the people that are
over there that aren't getting attention? How much is going
on over there? Because there's been talk of a serial
killer operating over there. So the locals that didn't come
from wealthy families, that weren't you on vacation, that are
just disappearing. Is what's going on over there?
Speaker 4: Right? And it is so foreign and it is you know,
it's like you know, it's a jungle. It's like you know,
and you can have storms there and flash flooding and
an instant I mean, so who's to say that that
didn't happen. Let's just hypothetically speak. Let's just hypothetically speak. Okay,
it's raining and there's a flash flood. Okay, they could
have gotten injured that way because some of the bones
were broken. Okay, so this could have caused the painting,
This could have caused the numerous phone calls to General
one and only one of those phone calls connected for
two seconds and then it cut off because of the reception.
There was no there was no reception, but okay, so
but it still leaves open the fact that somebody had
to have had their phone that wasn't them who was
trying to get into it. And then you know, I
don't know, I just don't know. There's so many what ifs.
Speaker 5: That so many what ifs. I mean, like we said earlier,
we're not going to come to an answer on this show.
This show is just to raise awareness, to get more
people talking about it. If enough people talk about it
and raise hell about it, maybe we'll get answers. So
we're doing our little part.
Speaker 4: We're trying.
Speaker 5: I'd love to go to some of these questions that
we have highlighted. First one going to Goo goo to
ninety nine. Think you think you thank you buddy? That
is mister Gary Blaylock, Mike Wolf. Does anyone find it
strange there were other Dutch nationals there at the same time.
Speaker 4: I mean, they could have been in there for the
same reasons that these two girls were. Maybe volunteer opportunities.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I don't I don't know. Is that
a tourist destination?
Speaker 4: I think I think it. It does have the touristy
you know thing I mean, because it's it's like a
whole other world that you.
Speaker 5: Could experience, yeh, be straight.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's what they were saying on the article
that you played, is you know, there's a lot of
hush hush going on because of the supposed serial killer,
and tourists aren't going to want to come and do
everything gets swept under the rug.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Miss Chris Blaylock. Why would her foot bone still
be in her boot? Was that her foot bone? Or
was it her foot? Was it the foot?
Speaker 4: It was who from ankle to two?
Speaker 5: It was like push and everything.
Speaker 4: Yes, because they did upon you know, looking through you know,
throughout the area.
Speaker 5: Stay tuned for more paranormal odyssey.
Speaker 4: There were pieces of flesh that were found. Some of
them were the sands and some of them were chrises.
But yes, it was our whole foot.
Speaker 5: So flesh and everything. Yes, Yeah, I don't know real quick,
my good buddy, Miss Crystal Blevins became a po freak tonight.
Thank you very very very very much, ma'am. Thank you
glad to have you. Mike Wolf. Did they check that
tour guide's basement for an operating room? Might be selling
off body parts. I might watch so many horror movies,
but I mean it happens. I mean people sell off
body parts at organs and.
Speaker 4: Shit black market man kidneys, livers, spleens.
Speaker 5: But to answer your question, No, I don't know what
was checked. I'm sure the authorities looked into him. I
would hope anyway, Alex, are they just throwing the word
cannibal out there or are they actually cannibals out there?
Great question. I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know that either. I don't know if
there's actually because I was like, you know me, I
was like digging into like the dark side of this,
not the you know what. When you're a researcher, you
have to look at everything, right, So I was like,
what kricktens being them on?
Speaker 5: All right, Alex, again, this is what we just talked about.
That her foot was cut off, like bone was cut
or was there meat on the foot bone while other
bones are meat free and bleached. That's the same question,
had Alex. I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Lessan's foot was in her boot and it did
half pieces of flesh on it. It was like it
was cut from the ankle. And then I think I
think the rest of it were just bones that they found.
Speaker 5: Crystal says, let her freak flag fly. That's why Ram fly.
We are glad to have you all right, real quick,
I do, Oh my gosh, this is a new one.
But you guys have been showing up and showing out
tonight since we talked about our good friend Chris hitting
us with a hondo. Uh. Joe Pat hit us with fifteen.
Speaker 4: Oh thank you.
Speaker 5: Our brand new member Stormy Stormy hit us with.
Speaker 4: Twenty Oh thank you, Stormy.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, and I were awesome, awesomebody. Mister
Troy hit us with another fitty.
Speaker 4: Oh thank you'all. You're so cool.
Speaker 5: Thank you guys so very much. You are helping us
out in ways that you just cannot know. We appreciate
it so much. We love y'all very much.
Speaker 4: Yes, now, can we talk about the resolves that we
have made as the dynamic duo for next year?
Speaker 5: We're talking about you don't play dumb. I wasn't paying
attention to hit again.
Speaker 4: I said, can we talk about what we're playing in
for next year?
Speaker 5: Yes? Yes, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 4: Okay, So all right, so we were going through our
shows and you know, you know, we were just kind of,
you know, messioned minds and thoughts, and you know, we
were looking back at the beginning of this year and
the amount of shows and it just kind of dwindled down.
Now I had all that happen in November and I
could not mentally do one hundred and ten percent like
I normally do. And then we were sicking in December,
and then Wayne was out of town, so we only
did four shows in December, and I was like, that's crap.
We can't do that to our people. So we sat
down and we talked, and what we are planning to
do is we are wanting to do six to eight
shows every month and then two eight shows, Yes, six
to eight live shows every month, and then two members
only per month, as well as doing the side episodes
of Spooky Sundays and the Missing Persons, and we are
working on another giveaway.
Speaker 5: Yeah for our members. Yes, we are very, very very
excited about that New Year's resolutions that we have come
up with. So again we are wanting for starting January first,
moving forward, six to eight live shows a month, at
least two members only live shows every month, and we
are planning a new giveaway Alex says, best dollar ninety nine. Ever,
I agree with you so much, buddy. Let's see what
ghost Bate says, add in a live paranormal we can
do that.
Speaker 4: We can do that, and that's I was muted. So
I was excited, and nobody heard how excited that was.
Speaker 5: Christa and I have been talking behind scenes about doing
her taking me on my very first paranormal investigations, and
we have worn out some places and we've come up
with the idea of Corpsewood Manor in Georgia, North Georgia.
So I think we're going to do that and we
we may as well film it and thank you if
we can.
Speaker 4: I think you should. And Alex said that he would
make a donation for they give away.
Speaker 5: Okay, awesome, let me know what you got, Alex.
Speaker 4: But yeah, so I talked to Zach about this.
Speaker 5: Wayne is going no, Ruby, Ruby has a home right here.
Ruby is not going anywhere. But thank you, mister Robert.
I love you, buddy.
Speaker 4: So what I was saying before Wayne had a freak
out is that I had talked to Zach about it,
and you know, all this fun stuff happens away from
where I am. Okay, I'm in Virginia. Wayne's in Tennessee.
All of our members are like right here together, and
I'm like way over here. So I am planning on
traveling more to be a part of things that you
guys have going on in Tennessee.
Speaker 5: Here, you sign you up, We'll get you set up
for a member of Manimal Research.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying. So there's a lot of a lot
of cool things that are gonna start happening in twenty
twenty five, and I'm so stoked about it.
Speaker 5: Joe Pat, why are you calling me out? Dude.
Speaker 4: He's not wrong.
Speaker 5: He's not wrong at all. That's what Crystal Blevin is
trying to get me out of because she ain't afraid
of shit. Go out here.
Speaker 4: He ain't wrong, it would be. Yeah, It's just a
lot of cool stuff, and I'm so excited. I was
so excited to be able to come on tonight and
tell you guys, and you know, be like, hey, look,
this is really cool. This is what we're gonna do.
So and be waiting for the next instance have spooky
Sundays because that was recorded today.
Speaker 5: Yes it was. It will be released by a podcast
probably tomorrow. I'm gonna do my best to get it
out tomorrow. But yeah, all of that said, we just
got a few days left in four We will see
you all again before the end of the year, yes,
but we just want to talk a little bit about
next year.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 4: And we're already I mean talking about next year, talking
about January. I mean, I have two on the calendar
already working on the third, so we're getting them.
Speaker 6: All right.
Speaker 5: All right, let's get out of here, madam say you're
good beast.
Speaker 4: Thank you all again for your support and for your
cash apps and your venmos and your everything, because we
can't we can't do what we do without you. I mean,
we would just fall apart. So I appreciate you so
much and all that you do and for all the
love and support that you show us. And yeah, we'll
see you next time.
Speaker 5: You guys are loved so so much more than you know.
You are appreciated so much more than you know. Thank
you everyone that is able to help, and that does
everyone that's not, We understand, and we love you. Just
being here is enough. We appreciate that. Please tell everyone
about the show and the best thing you can do
to help us if you want help us grow the
show now share it, tell everybody about it, tell them
how much fun you have while you're here, and just
help us keep growing. That will be the best thing
you can do for us. But until we talk again,
y'all take care of yourselves, take care of each other.
Bye bye, Hey, guys, thanks so very much for checking
out this episode of Paranormal Odyssey. Love you guys so
much all the continued support. I want to ask everyone
please take just a second, go rate and review the
show wherever it is you get your podcasts. I also
like to remind everyone about Paranormal Odyssey Live, which can
be found every Tuesday evening eight pm over on YouTube,
as well as every other Saturday Tiffany and I do
and after our show at ten pm over on YouTube. Guys,
please go check that out hit that subscribe button if
you are new over there. We would appreciate that so much. Also, guys,
if you would please head over and check out our website,
Paranormalworldproductions dot com. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 8: Guys, they say you don't gotta go, but your causday
and I don't want to feel world of its statiste.
Speaker 6: Chop this chop that chid.
Speaker 8: Everything came right back ride back joy for me, need enjoy.
Speaker 6: Staying right come it right away. Stasst ssssssssstists games stssssssst
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