Speaker 1: This is that Bigfoot podcast where hoaxes di loud, myths
get crushed and the truth doesn't need permission. We don't
do blurry, we don't do polite. We cut through crap
and call it like it is. If you're here for
feel good folklore, keep scrolling. But if you're fed up
with the fake and hungry for real answers, let's go
that Bigfoot podcast. We're not just hunting sasquatch. We're breaking
the illusion wide.
Speaker 2: Open, doctor Hogan Chirou. I presume what's going on man now?
Speaker 3: Much just hanging in there. It seems like we're going
to have a late fire season out here this year.
Hopefully it doesn't keep me from getting in the woods.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2: I am good man, dealing with the insurance company, trying
to get my seventy five thousand dollars bill, taking care
of from my surgery up in Pennsylvania. Everything you'd want
to deal with on a random Wednesday morning.
Speaker 3: It makes update that much more interesting, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, I feel like I'm getting humped in so many
different ways that I didn't expect when I woke up
this morning. Not my favorite way to spend the day,
but it is what it is, but we're not here
to talk about that. We're here to talk about Bigfoot.
We're not going to bore you guys with my horrible
seventy five thousand dollars bill. If you would like to
help contribute to that, you can send me something through paypout.
And I'm just kidding. We're here to talk about Bigfoot, man,
let's get into it. Everybody loved the episode that we
put out last week over here on that Bigfoot podcast
got some rave reviews from our conversation. I thought it
was a great conversation. But it doesn't really matter what
we think. It's all about what you guys think. We
do this show for you, the audience, so we appreciate
the feedback and the Apple podcast reviews. If you've not
done that, you need to do it. We would appreciate
a five star rating and a review if you feel
so inclined. It literally takes two minutes you do it
right there on Apple podcast, and it goes a long
way with helping people find the show. I want more
people listening to us, so if you would do that,
we would appreciate it. It only takes a couple of seconds.
But enough of that. Let's get into what we're going
to talk about today. We've got a couple of things
that are on the agenda for us. One thing that
I am excited to talk about, and I was glad
to hear that you wanted to talk about, was this
face of nef face of a Sasquatch video from Mike
up in Ontario, Canada from I guess you would call
it Sasquatch Ontario. Infamy is what I would call it,
more so than fame. But according to his eighty SI
thousand subscribers, I would say it's fame for them he
put out this video. I don't know, it's been like
two years ago now. Immediately my response was, this is
one of the most ridiculous things I have ever personally
seen in the Bigfoot community or outside at Frankly, was
what was clearly to me a Halloween mask that had
been doctored in some way, was painted, it looked like
some fake eyes had been added to it. I don't know,
did you see these when they first come out? When
did you first get introduced to this Sasquatch Ontario Mike
Patterson bullshit.
Speaker 3: I think it may have been about a year ago
that I came across it just randomly. It cracks me
up that you said that, because that was six or
seven months before I heard you ever say anything about it.
When I came across about a year ago. That was
the first thing I thought. I thought it was actually
a joke. I thought it was one of those joke
videos where people say we found Sasquatch and then they
have their best friend in a suit run across the
camera or something. That's what I thought it was, because
not only like you, was that that looks like a mask.
The features on it. It looks like a bad Halloween
Sasquatch mask. I mean, at least with those other videos
from North of the Border that appear to be faked.
At least with those they tried to make it look
like what people describe Squatch is looking on with NFF,
it looked like it was the cousin that no one
ever talked about, or something like.
Speaker 2: I just went what.
Speaker 3: I'm glad that I've gotten a chance to hear you
talk about your personal odyssey on this unintended I'm hoping
that you'll share that with the audience, fill us in
about what you've done, because I love the way that
you with the extra mile of not just calling it
out and saying no, that's obviously a mask everyone can see,
and you have basically people take sides you with the
extra mile, which I'm all about, as we've talked about
the last time about get the evidence, get the data,
get the proof if it's out there.
Speaker 2: I saw your Facebook post about it.
Speaker 3: But maybe you can update the audience on where you
are with that whole process and phill Us in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has definitely been a process. And let me
take you back to the beginning for you guys who
have no clue what we're talking about, at least in
relation to the mask. I think everybody who listened to
the show knows about Mike Patterson and his Sasquatch Ontario
YouTube chain. He and Dwyane. It's like a twelve year
hoax at this point that they've perpetuated. A couple of
years ago, Mike came out with these photos of this
ridiculous dark figure mask thing sitting on top of a
fence with what looks like some sort of material laying
in front of it. You'll typically see them side by side.
He claims it's two photographs or two images that were
taking seconds apart. One of them shows some of the
teeth on this mask, which are pretty white, and then
the other one, the mouth is covered up with what
Mike claims to be Nefatillah's arm. He's got his arm
laid up on this fence. He's saying, you're looking across
the arm, and that's why you see a difference in
the mouth. I just took the image in my iPhone
when they first came out a couple of years ago,
and I lightened the contrast. Took me about four seconds.
I lightened the contrast, and it's clear to see that
what he claims is a face of a sasquatch is
nothing more than a mask sitting on top of something
in this picture with a fence, and there's this lattice
and some white blanket or something, and then there's like
a shovel leaned up against the thing. Here's the thing
that got me. Mike claimed that he didn't take these photographs.
His partner, his research partner aka the voice of Nefatilla, Dwayne,
took the photos and he said he took them seconds apart.
But you can see clearly that things in the photograph
that are supposedly allegedly seconds apart have been moved. The
white blanket is twice the size that it was. It's
unfolded to twice its size in one of the photos,
and then it's smaller in the second photo. What the
fuck was neft doing laundry folding this thing at the
same time the photos were taken, I don't know. Made
no sense to me as an investigator. That's the first
thing that stuck out to me, other than the obvious
ridiculousness of this alleged photograph of this face that's nothing
more than a mask that's clearly been manipulated.
Speaker 3: The domestic kid in Sasquatch. That's what happened, Brian. He's
doing laundry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was able to fold it, and he had
it folded one way, and he took a photo a
second or two later, and it's folded a different way.
So I digress it. But that's basically what happened. In
a nutshell, I lightened it up and I called him
out and said, this is complete bullshit, dude, this is
clearly a mask. Of course, Mike did his typical attack
on me. I'm not enlightened. I'm an idiot. He can't
believe that I was ever a police officer who would
ever trust me on a nine to one one call,
because clearly my observation skills are off because I think
this is a mask, but it's clearly the face of Nefatia.
Okay whatever, Mike and I have her back and forth.
I searched for days, and I'm not talking about this
all night or anything like that. I wasn't sitting up
obsessing about it, but over the course of probably three
to five days, I was doing searches in my spare
time to try to find this mask. Because if you
watch the video that Mike did about this when he
brought these amazing images of sasquatch to the world, Mike
says in his video, Hey, I know there'll be people
who say this as a mask. I challenge anybody to
try and find the mask because it doesn't exist. This
is a real sasquatch, so there is no mask to
be found here, right, So he makes this challenge in
his video again, as an investigator looking at this, there's
no reason for someone who has nothing to hide to
draw attention to the fact that people are going to
say this is a hoax. That was a little odd
to me, but people accepted the challenge because what happened
is and what sort of set this in motion for
me at least with the mask and the recreation photos
that we're talking about is I don't know. It's probably
a couple of months ago at this point. I don't
spend a whole lot of time on Reddit. I've said
this about Reddit plenty of times, and I'll say it
even to this day. Reddit is the bunghole of all
social media. I stay away from it as much as
pot possible, but I do still get the notifications from
the r bigfoot subreddit, and somebody had posted somebody being
your local gay cryptid is this screen name or account
name on Reddit? Which I thought was interesting. We'll maybe
talk a little bit more about that later. But he
did a post saying, Hey, I think I found the
mask that was used in the Sasquatch Ontario Mike Patterson
Dwayne Scott photos. I click on it and lo and behold,
by god, this guy has a matchnd at Chicken Dinner.
I will post these photographs over on the blogs. If
you guys want to see and follow along in real time,
head over to Parandormworldproductions dot com. Check out the blog
at the top of the page and you can see
all these photographs that I'm talking about. I look at
this mask. It is not black. Nef's face is black
in these photographs. It became apparent to me clearly that
it would have to be altered in some way, which
would make sense if you're investigating this and looking into it,
you would challenge people to find the exact mask, because
you know that's not possible because they've altered this mask
to change its appearance to take these photographs. So I
looked at the mask and everything matched. The unique forehead,
the brow ridge, the ears, the nose, the teeth, the mouth,
everything matched almost perfectly. The only problem is the mask
was lighter in color. It was more of a cream colored,
lighter color with some black speckled in right. So it
was clear that they had to alter this in some
way and paint it. People were postulating that it was
shoe polish, and they were coming up with all these
ideas of how they could do this. It was all
speculation at that point because I didn't have a physical
mask in my hand, so I click on We had
the Facebook marketplace link in this reddit post to a
guy who ding ding ding Ding lives miles from where
Dwyane and Mike Patterson are up in Ontario, Canada. Boy,
is that a red flag or a green flag? I
guess it depends on who's keeping score here, but it
was a green flag for me. I'm thinking, hoh shit,
we might have a match here. So I immediately reach out
to the cellar and say, hey, is this still available?
They wanted a four bucks US for the mask, and
they had additional Halloween masks besides this one, completely different.
They had nothing to do with this mask. They were
just a lot of masks that they had for sale
and buy a lot, two or three a collection, right.
So I reach out to the guy. His girlfriend actually
responds to me and says, Hey, my boyfriend's dealing with this.
It's his listing. He's out of town for work for
a couple of weeks. But we're not shipping the mask.
You have to pick it up locally here in Canada.
And I'm thinking, fuck, I'm not gonna be able to
do that. I'm not flying to Canada and doing this
whole excursion to go and buy a four dollar mask.
I don't want it that freaking bad, I thought the
photographs would be enough. The side by side comparison should
be enough for Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles to see
that it's the same mask. Right, But we know how
people are, we know how the community is. Mike immediately
came out firing at me, saying I had created an
artificial intelligence and AI imaged mask based on Neff's face
to try to discredit him. That was his line, and
then he personally attacked me. I've shared that stuff on
social media publicly. He went for the gay card. He
started calling me all kinds of names and using gayslers
and shit that I've never heard before in my fifty years.
He was really making me cry. It was all I
could do to get up in the morning.
Speaker 3: I was worried about you there. You're so fragile about
that stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm a very fragile guy when it comes to those things.
I've never heard anybody say anything like that. In my
sixteen years in law enforcement on the streets of Atlanta.
I've never had my feelings hurt like Mike hurt my feelings.
Speaker 3: By the way, folks, let's hope sarcasm can come through
in this media.
Speaker 2: So he attacks me personally I put that out there,
and he blocks me on the all social media, so
I can't see anything he's posting. He's clearly still talking
about me on his social media because people are sending
it to me. At this point, I really don't care.
I'm just trying to get the mask because I know
this is not the mask I e. The exact one
that they used, obviously, but it was an exact match,
meaning this is a mass produced product in Canada that
he could have gotten his hands on. This just happens
to be another one. In fact, when I reached out
to this guy, he actually messaged me back when he
got back in town and said, hey, I know you
spoke to my girlfriend. I'm willing to ship you the
mask if you'll pay extra pay for the shipping and
then make it worth my while. I think one hundred
and fifty dollars US later, he was satisfied and he
mails me the mask. Okay, I'm happy. Can I just say,
really quickly about the mask?
Speaker 3: You saying I'm not going to fly to Canada, how
hilarious it would have been if you had flown there,
got the mask from the guy, and then gone a
couple of miles to Mike's place and shut up with
the mask on your face lives streaming it for the world.
Speaker 2: I got back from a trip I don't know. I'd
been to Gatlinburg or Florida, I don't know where I was.
I'd been to a speaking gig somewhere, and I came
back from that and it was waiting on me. I
couldn't wait. If you follow me on Facebook or you
are friends with me on Facebook, my Facebook profile picture
is me wearing the mask before it was ever altered.
So that's out there for everybody to see. And again
I'll post it over on the blog for you guys
to check out. So I get the mask obviously. If
you follow me at all, you know we talked a
little bit about my medical procedure. I had an emergency
surgery while I was up at a speaking gig up
in Pennsylvania earlier this last month. So I've had a
lot of care to do. This is a very busy
time for us. There's a lot of travel and it's
been raining. I think we talked that in the last episode.
It's been raining here. It's raining right now as we're
recording this. There's been a ton of rain. I need
to do this outside right a. I had to alter
the mask. I had to figure out a way to
paint it very similarly to what they did. Honestly, the
only thing I could figure out to make it look
similar to what they did with the shiny face. I
tried shoe pilish, I tried other products. I had to
use a black sharpie and color it in by hand
to make it the right color.
Speaker 1: We've got to pay some bills, but don't go anywhere.
That Bigfoot podcast will be right back after this.
Speaker 2: Then I had to order eyes, I believe. I ordered
some fake eyes from Amazon. Had to figure out how
to tape them in there so they could stick out
enough to be seen in the photographs. I'll be honest,
it wasn't as easy as I thought it was going
to be. To recreate these photos, I pulled out an
old iPhone on five s that we have, one of
the tiny little Tictac iPhones with a shitty camera. Because
I had no idea what kind of camera they used.
I didn't know how far away he was. I didn't
know if he used a flash. I didn't know if
they used lighting. I certainly didn't know the type of camera.
So I had to do a lot of experimentation. So
after all that was said and done, I guess it
was last week sometime I did the actual photo shoot
and I got pretty damn close.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 2: I think they look pretty good. If you guys haven't
seen him again, check out the blog over on Paranormal
World Productions dot com. They looked pretty good, right. I
used a black background to make it even darker. I
got far enough away, I used my flash. I didn't
use the flash. I lightened it. I did this, but
I ultimately ended up just using a flash on my
new iPhone. I have a sixteen Pro. I think it
is the flash there from a certain amount of distance
away looked pretty good. I was satisfied with those. So
those are the ones that I ended up posting that
before and after the comparison shots so you can see it.
And people immediately started responding. I don't think anybody at
this point has come out in defense of these photographs
that Mike has put out there. Everybody has said, hands down,
absolute match. You got this guy into story pretty much.
Here's the thing that bothers me, here's the thing that's
so hard for me when it comes to the community.
I did a post over on Reddit. I think as
of this morning, it's at forty thousand views on Reddit.
The majority of the people are saying, hands down, yeah,
we've known for years this guy was a hoaxer. We
knew when those came out that it was a mask.
My response to all of those has been, look, I
get what you're saying. I'm clearly not talking to you.
You aren't my audience. The eighty suidd thousand people that
are drinking Mike Patterson's kool aid on his YouTube channel
are my target audience right now. I am talking to
the people who believe the bullshit that he's been perpetrating
and perpetuating for the last twelve years. That's my audience here,
and I want this spread far and wide. I went
live on every branch of social media that we have
because I wanted people to share this. I want Mike
to see it, I want Dwayne to see it, and
I want the people that believe his bullshit to see it.
Because if I can change ten minds, I've done my
job here. Because it's not obvious to everybody, to you,
to me, to the majority of critical thinkers that are
involved in this subject, Yeah, it's pretty clear, but to
these people it's not, and those are the people that
I'm trying to I don't want to say save, but honestly,
that's what I'm trying to do, is get the information
out to these people. So thank you to everybody who
shared this. Thank you to everybody who's viewed it on Reddit.
Please share it far and wide. I'm hoping by now
Mike Patterson's seen it. I haven't heard from Mike. I
figured I would get a personal attack, but the last
thing he put out about it was a video addressing
the photographs that I had put out before I did
the recreation. He doesn't call me out by name, but
he says, somebody has created an AI mask and clearly
fucking wearing it in a photograph on my Facebook. It's
not made by AI. It is real, it exists, and
it is what you used to fake these photographs. So
I guess my question to you is, just as a person,
a critical thinker, obviously you have a PhD, you're a doctor,
you're well educated, you're a man of the world. Is
it not the most frustrating thing in the world to you,
Because I feel like the community just dismisses these things
whole cloth. I said to people, Yeah, we've known Mike
has been a hoaxer, but when have you ever seen
anybody find the mask that he used and then recreate
the hoax to prove without a shadow of a doubt
that it's a hoax. That's a rare thing that happens
in this community, and when it does not just because
I did it. I'm not looking for praise here. I'm
not looking for adulation. I'm not looking for my ego
to be stroked. I'm simply saying acknowledge that someone went
the extra mile to prove a hoax, because it rarely,
if ever happens outside of maybe a finding bigfoot, recreation
or something that might have said, yeah, this is probably
not a bigfoot. But when does that ever happen? And
why is it so difficult for this community to not
be negative about the hoax are being revealed and the
person who went the extra mile. It's almost like I'm
getting more shit online for going the extra mile and
proving the hoax than he did for hoaxing the stuff
in the first place. Where are you on this whole
thing within the community of they're attacking people who are
going out doing the extra mile, spending their hard earned
cash and their time to prove this guy is nothing
more than a hoaxer.
Speaker 3: First, I know you didn't do it for any kind
of praise, but I do want to again thank you
for going the extra mile, because again, that's my whole
approach to life really is. You get presented with anything,
go the extra mile to figure out if it's factual,
if it's real, if it holds water. So I appreciate that. Also,
the recreation you did to me looking at the two
side by side to put it in I think the
right context, those pictures side by side could have been
used in the same advertisement for that mask during Halloween
from Spirit Halloween or any of those big Halloween online
stores or anything like that. That's how close those two
were so well done with that. I think of those
eighty thousand followers, some probably follow him for the see
what kind of ridiculous hoax he comes up with next, Right,
it's the Rubbernecker train wreck sort of crap, So some
of them probably that. But I also think this whole
people resisting. I think this is a natural reaction for humans.
From my perspective, I think this may be something that
is especially strong in the cryptid world because most of
the people who are interacting online or whatever the case is,
have not had an experience themselves. They believe this. It's
a belief, and so I think of it along the
same lines. And I'm not trying to say that Sasquatches
their religion, but I think of it in the same
lines of belief systems. And when people don't have the
facts in front of them, so whether or not they
think this is a hoax or not, they go, oh, yeah,
we all know whisper to ourselves, that's just bullshit over there.
I think there's a maybe even a subconscious fear that
if you get one crack in the wall, the whole
thing comes tumbling down. They worry that, oh, what's going
to happen next? Is somebody going to show that the
Freeman footage is not real?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: And then are they going to go to Patterson Gibblin Again.
It's almost like a belief system because a lot of people,
I think, either came into it going oh yeah, there's bigfoot, yeah,
with no evidence, or they want to believe so strongly
that they're not worried about the evidence. And I think
that's part of The reason why you and I connected
is that you and I both came into this thing
where we're.
Speaker 2: Like, Sasquatch sounds awesome.
Speaker 3: I would love it if there's a Sasquatch, but we
both came into a very skeptical I know we talked
a little bit last time, a little bit on how
we're in different places along this journey. I think that's
probably why you're getting the pushback, is because you're willing
to go that extra mile and say no. And as
I heard you say, even if if the Patterson Gimlin
film is not real, that doesn't mean Sasquatch is not real.
And I think people really can't divorce those two because
those are the only things they have to hang their
hats on. They're gonna push back against any kind of effort.
I've seen the online responses when people have called the
Todd standing stuff out and people are just, oh, no, man,
he spends all day out there. Those things are real. Again,
it's apples and oranges. They could be real. Even if
they're not real, that doesn't mean that Sasquatch is not real.
I hope that's one of the things that can be
a change within the community because I know, we want
to talk about the crossover gorilla trail cam footage. There's
a great example. There were these stories for decades about gorillas,
about these huge primates in Africa in the west, and
they were folklore stories from locals in Africa. There were
people who believed it outright because they wanted to believe
there were these giant monsters in the quote unquote dark
continent as they called it back then. The sea change
was when people said, I'm open to the idea that
they're there, and when we get evidence of it, all
start believing it. And it doesn't have to necessarily be
Every single person has their own personal interaction. It's what
we've talked about before about replicable studies, things where you
can rely on the objectivity that's been put into it,
the safeguard, the bumpers that have been put onto the
observations of things.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's my take on it is.
Speaker 3: I think they're just like there's this deep seated fear
that may not even be.
Speaker 2: Conscious about your walls, this house of cards potentially, or
let's take the Jenga and you're pulling a block out
of their jinga structure of what it's based on I'm
glad you brought up about the Patterson Gimblin film because
I have said that multiple times talking about that because
so many people that is their holy grail when it
comes to evidence for the existence of these creatures. Anyone
who says it's not real is threatening that for them.
I said, look, they could be completely full of horseshit. Patterson, Gimlin,
Bob Hieronymous, this guy Philip Morris who said he made
the suit. Maybe everybody there was in on this hoax.
Maybe it was this huge elaborate hoax that was created.
And if that's the case, it doesn't mean that Bigfoot
can't be real. Those things can exist simultaneously and both
to be true at the same time. This can be
a hoax. Todd Standing's footage can be a hoax. The
Freeman footage could be fake. All these things could be happening,
and Sasquatch could still be real, but people don't want
to hear that. I think that's what's happening in a
lot of cases here. But there's still so many people
in the community who seem to be so desensitized with
Oh yeah, I've known that's fake for years. Let's move on. Okay,
just because you know it's fake. Plenty of other people
believe that it's real, and in my opinion, if someone
is willing to go the extra step to do the
recreation and to prove it's hard to prove a hoax.
People I think have been trying to do it. With
Todd standing in his footage for years, I have said
that I think all of his videos are fake. I
don't think any of that shit is real. I can't
prove that. There is no physical way. It is so
hard for anybody to prove a negative. How do you
prove something doesn't exist? How do you do that? What's
the process for saying Bigfoot doesn't exist? Here's the proof
it doesn't exist in and of itself, the statement doesn't
even make sense. It's the same way with this hoax.
Unless Todd comes out and says, you know what, folks,
I just feel like I need to do a deathbed
confession before I go out. All that shit was made up.
That was animatronic. I painted my dad's face with black
shoe polish and he crawled around on the ground and
I found him. Unless he does that, it's physically impossible
to prove it. But the mistake that Mike Patterson and
Dwayne made were using something that was mass produced that
someone had the astute ability to scour the internet. I
don't know if they use Google lens or what they use,
but I credit whoever. This guy is your local gay cryptid.
He's on Facebook as well, because he's messaged me on
Facebook and on Reddit. Is clearly a real person who
found this listing to his credit or her credit up
in Canada. And then I took the ball from there
and ran with it. I reached out and got it.
I had the means to purchase it. I had the
time to wait to get it. I had the time
to put into altering it to make it match. I
had the time and the ability to go out and
buy things. I had to go out and spend twenty
fucking dollars on some lattice from Low's to get it
home and make this look as real or as close
to the original as possible. And it's so funny. People
have commented, Hey, your shit looks more real than his his.
If it posted those pictures that you created that looks
more like a real sasquatch than what Mike put out there,
maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation. I appreciate that.
I'm not going in the business of hoaxing bigfoot faces.
That's not my intention here, folks. This was a one
time deal for just Mike. If it ever comes up
again and I have the ability to prove that somebody's
lying about their evidence, I'm going to do that. Yeah,
it's just this overwhelming thing in the community. Instead of
responding to my Reddit thread, literally, somebody said to me,
I don't think anybody should be wasting their time on
this guy or trying to disprove his evidence. It's clearly
a mask. No, it's not. Go to his YouTube channel
and look at how many views. Yeah, that video has.
Look at the comments. The hundreds are, possibly thousands of
comments that this guy has on this particular video. I
think it's been viewed like one hundred and twenty thousand times. Again,
people say, what's he getting out of this hoax? Why
would he hoax that it's money? It is money.
Speaker 1: We've got to pay some bills. But don't go anywhere.
That Bigfoot podcast will be right back after this.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the algorithm is doing with his videos,
but I said this before. I've talked to people who
have big accounts, and I know about what they make
off of their YouTube videos. Some people make as little
as six bucks per thousand views. Some people make twenty
dollars per thousand views on these videos. You do the math.
Multiply twenty dollars times one hundred and twenty thousand. That's
your motivation. He's making money off of hoaxing these videos
about nef talking, farting into a microphone, singing, and now
the face of nef Right. Every video he posts is
content for him that he gets paid because he created it.
That's the motivation. If we were in court and we
were trying to prove the motive for said crime, his
motivation is fame amongst his followers. His ego is stroked
because they support him wholeheartedly. And on top of that, oh,
by the way, he's able to pay a few bills
with the money that he's making off of this eighty
SOMEI thousand. I think it's close to eighty one thousand
subscribers on YouTube. Again, I don't begrudge anybody for making
money off of this subject. It's my full time job.
It's how I pay my bills and support my family.
But I'm not lying to people faking evidence, and I'm
not taking advantage of people's gullibility. And that's the problem
that I have with Mike in a nutshell.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that wraps up that my component really well.
There's an interesting part there that I've been wanting to
talk a little bit more about the whole fame component
because I'm the skeptic, and when I'm at a conference,
whenever I'm interacting with folks who are either knowers or believers,
I often get the pushback of why would these people
claim to see what they saw? They're not getting famous
off of it or anything. It can't be that. I
would push back against that really strongly because everything is
context specific, right, Everything that we deal with is within
our little fish pond. That had a pretty small Bigfoot conference,
the one I was at Oakridge this summer. The speakers
there were being fond of like the rolling Stones were
hanging out great for I'm not begrudging that. I'm not
saying they shouldn't be, but I'm saying, just from an
observational perspective, you mentioned egos, they're getting some serious serotonin
releases in their brain. They're looked at as an authority
figure in the community that they're in. So when people say, oh,
you're not getting famous off this. No, you're not getting
Hollywood famous, office, you're not getting pop star famous, you're
not Taylor Swift, but you're getting bigfoot famous off this.
If you're Mike, you mentioned it as eighty thousand followers,
he gets to use that as a sort of bragging point,
a feather in his cap or where he stands. That
automatically makes him one of those authority figures who's a
player in the bigfoot world, who has to be considered
whenever you're talking about these things. And for me, I say,
that's why those folks need to be scrutinized when they
put something out to the public. Even more if it's
Johnny's Bigfoot page and his mom and his cousin follow
him and that's it, then it put out whatever you want. Yeah,
no one should bother to take the time because he
got his cousin to put a suit on and run
down the road. But when it's someone who has that
kind of cachet within the community. And I bring this
from the scientific community, You've go to a scientific conference,
grad students get up where they're presenting these hypotheses that
they're testing right now in their dissertations, and nobody really cared.
They may find it interesting, they may have talked to
them afterward, they may think that grad student is particularly bright,
whatever the case, but they don't really care about what
they're talking about until there's a mountain of data or
that person has the reputation of who they move the
new You get one of the sort of academic famous
people up on the stage presenting and they present the
same hypothesis. If you could replicate that, you would have
hand shooting up right their academic rivals. You would have
a lot of scrutiny over it, because there's a lot
of weight to what they say. And that's why I
think when those people all due respect, when those people
say no, one should waste their time on this guy,
because we all know that he's been a hoaxer. Like
you said, no, that's bullshit. Not everybody knows. Again, if
the Sasquatch community is going to move into being a
scientific community, being about objective data, being actually to show
facts beyond beliefs, then you have to call out any
kind of claim. You have to investigate it further. You
said it yourself. When we were talking about your personal
experiences last year, you said, hey, I haven't seen all
the video footage. The jury is still out. Basically, you
know what you saw. But you're saying if there's something
where there was a trick of lights, there was this,
there was that, then you'll accept that's the case. That's
the approach that I hope more of the community can
start to adopt instead of the kind of entrenched belief
component everyone say, oh, science got that wrong. Yeah, that's
what science tries to do all the time. Science is
constantly trying to get things wrong because that's how you
learn what's right. And that also means that you're open
to new data. That's why, like I said, I never
say never when it comes to biology, because new data
can always to be presented. I'm always open to hearing
that what Mike presented is not new data, and that
needs to be very clear, and you made it really
clear it's not new data.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said that, because that is the
other thing that I've said so many times. Part of
the reason that I think a lot of academics shy
away from bigfoot as a subject or sasquatch research as
a subject is because of some of the ridiculous things
that are out there, and the more popular that these
people that are hoaxing these ridiculous videos and photographs or
whatever they're hoaxing Bigfoot speaking to Mike and farting into
microphones and shit like that, the more it's pushed out
there in these algorithms, it floats its way to the top.
So if an academic says, I've always been interested in Bigfoot,
I've got my PhD in primatology and anatomy, I want
to go into this and look at it as a
serious subject. Let me go out there and see what
evidence is out there. Right now, they do a Google search,
and these ridiculous as photographs of this bad Halloween mask
are the first thing that he comes in contact with
or she comes in contact with as a scientist, and
they see all the comments and the laughing emojis, and
then they go to Todd Standings videos and go, oh
my god, this is the best thing out there besides
the Patterson Gimlin film or the Freeman footage, which a
lot of people have the opinion that's faked as well.
Whether you're talking about video one or video two, that
may in and of itself cause that person or many
scientists to say, you know what, this is some kakamami bullshit.
I am not getting involved in this. These people are
clearly batshit crazy. I'm out of here now. Has that
happened maybe? Could it happen? Sure, But it's another piece
of the puzzle why I think it's important for people
when you can go the extra mile, prove its hoax,
toss that shit out with the bathwater, and move on,
as you said, to try to move the needle on
the research. So if there's no other reason to do
something like I did and prove that someone hopes some
kind of evidence that's out there in front of the masses.
By the way, Sasquatch Ontario YouTube channel eighty one thousand,
eight hundred subscribers. As of right now when we record this,
the Face of nef Sasquatch People video from two years
ago has one hundred and sixteen thousand views. Sasquatch Contact
the Voice of Nefatilla from Sasquatch Ontario on their YouTube
channel three years ago one hundred and twenty six thousand views.
That's a lot of freakin eyeballs on those two videos alone.
And those two videos are both one hundred percent nothing
but horseshit. I have proven that the mask is one
one hundred percent faked, hoaxed, altered. It's a mask, hands down.
I can't do anything other than point you to the
YouTube channel that's devoted to this hoax, where Dwayne has
admitted that he is the voice of Nefatilla. Those two
things should be nails in the coffins done. But there's
still almost a quarter of a million views between those
two videos for people that have eaten it up hook
Line and Sinker, So that in and of itself, if
there were just those two videos to deal with, they've
been proven that they're hoaxes, but it doesn't matter. Those
eyeballs have still consumed it, and there's plenty of people
who will die thinking that it's one hundred percent real.
Speaker 3: It's something that's important for people to think about. You
mentioned the monetary component him getting money off of these views.
It's a perpetuating sacle because the more views he gets,
the more money he gets, which means the more videos
he can produced, the more notoriety he gets. Even if
it's negative. There are folks who believe that no publicity's
bad publicity. Even if it's negative, there are people who
are gonna want him to come speak at a conference
just because it's this tension in the air. Mike's gonna
present his controversial videos and talk about it, and you get.
Speaker 2: A question him.
Speaker 3: This is for the reasoning why you need to scrutinize
these things, because you're adding fuel to the fire. If
you just oh, yeah, he's getting views and he's getting clicks,
he gets more money, he gets more notoriety, instead of
the community being able to say, if you have some
real evidence, bring it forward. If you don't, then just
go do something else. Start making AI videos of fasquatch
drinking beer, running through the woods eating squirrels because they said, yes,
go ahead, go all in on the fake stuff.
Speaker 2: Make it a joke.
Speaker 3: Those videos get massive views, and if that's what you're
in it for. But if you're in it for trying
to figure out the biological reality of this organism, where
it fits in, what's actually going on with it, then yeah,
you need to call out the fake stuff, and you
need to, like you said, throw it out with the
bathwater and move on.
Speaker 2: I agree, enough airtime for Mike and his bullshit photographs
and my wonderful recreation. Again, if you guys want to
see those photos, either check it out on my social
media over on Facebook. I've got it on Instagram, and
I have it on the blog. Head over to the
website check it out there. But I want to be
respectful of everybody's time, including yours. Before we get out
of here, let's talk about you mentioned it a little
while ago about the gorillas. Give everybody the dime store
tour of what we're talking about here. What you know
about them, what's been happening, what's new about this elusive
grid gorilla over in Africa. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Actually, I have a friend I was in grad school
with who studied the crossover gorilla. They're an isolated population
of western lowland gorilla in a forested area that's really
cut off from continuous forest. And let's be clear, they're
not a separate species of gorilla, although conservationists might harve
it up that way because conservation laws allow you to
then protect organisms better and things like that. Technically there
are subspecies, but what's important is this is a population
that was known from gorilla tracks, from genetic evidence, from
hair sightings. A few people have video it's not as
blurry as most of the sasquatch video that we see.
But that's where kind of some parallels are is that
for a long time it was known by these things
and known by all the locals that there were gorillas
in this area. I would say that the difference is
there was clear genetic evidence because you had other gorilla
populations to compare it to, So you had the gorilla
genome already sequenced from Western Lowland populations that are in
big continuous sports. You find these equal samples, you collect them,
you get them analyzed, you're able to say, okay, that's
absolutely gorilla. It looks like it's the same species of
gorilla as Western Lowland, but has some markers that are
slightly different, so it's a subspecies. Like I said, there's photos,
there's video. Most of those are published in academic journals,
are shown at conferences. This is the first time that
they've gotten them on a trail cam where it's clear
that there's a big as ape right there. So that's
really exciting because first it's more publicly known, so it
brings more attention to the subject. It's also exciting I
think for field researchers because it shows that their efforts
to do things that are non invasive observations like field
camps and things like that are working.
Speaker 1: We've got to pay some bills, but don't go anywhere.
That Bigfoot podcast will be right back after this.
Speaker 3: I think for the bigfoot world it's exciting because it
gives that hope keep collecting the data you may get
rather than just what looks like a furry arm or
some blurry Oh look it's hidden behind a tree or whatever.
If the sasquatches don't short out the trail cameras, you
may get one on a trail camp.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think it's interesting.
Speaker 3: I love the media these days for clicks and everything
like that talking about monetizing things because it's not as
unheard of.
Speaker 2: It's not like no one had ever.
Speaker 3: Seen across River gorilla, and it's not like there was
an already photo evidence of them. It's just a matter
of this a really small population that is skiddish around humans,
typically probably because they've been hunted. To get them on
a trail cam, you start to be able to know
their movement patterns a little bit. Makes it really exciting,
especially for the scientists.
Speaker 2: Symbol Yeah, I thought it was interesting. I didn't think
there was a smoking gun there, because, like you said,
it wasn't like they discovered some new species of gorilla
that had never been seen before. But I thought it
was interesting in conjunction with some of the things we've
talked about with Bigfoot in the past and even today
about the evidence that people are collecting. It was very
similar to what happened with the Western Lowland gorillas when
they were discovered initially. That in and of itself being
caught on a trail cam is something interesting to me
because I don't know how many times this has been attempted,
but it's not been very successful in a lot of
larger primates and even larger mammals in general, to catch
them on trail cams, although it does happen on occasion,
and I think it's very similar to what we experience
or what we've seen in the Bigfoot community over the years,
is there are a ton of people who try to
put out trail cameras. I've seen personally some amazing footage
of what I believe to be a Sasquatch on trail
cameras that nobody will ever see because these people are
not going to release it. They show it to people
at conferences or people in confidence when they're talking about
the subject, and they know they're in an area where
they're not going to be laughed at. But by and large,
they're not putting this on the six o'clock news in
their local town saying hey, I caught this on trail cams.
I got one in Sam Squatches in the backyard. They're
not doing that right because they know they're going to
be laughed out of church and out of the grocery store,
and people are gonna be stopping when they're pumping their
gas at the quick Trip saying, hey, ain't you that
boy caught that thing over on that trail cam at
Sam Squatch. I don't blame them for not leasing that information.
Bigfoot Billy exactly. He gets a new tag from the
local tag off as I'm bigfoot Billy because everybody knows
I think that goes on. I don't think it's rampant
in the community, but there are some people out there
who have some footage that I believe to be genuine
that we'll probably never see. So I think things like
this and that's why I wanted to touch on it before
we get out of here may help people say yeah,
I've got some footage, or maybe we might go back
to trail cams, because the thing in the community. Now,
you talk to people. I guarantee seven out of ten
people that I talked to about the subject, they clearly
have no frickin clue. They just assume because they've heard
this over the years, or they've been told stories, or
they've heard podcasts where they say, don't put up trail
cameras it runs the bigfoot off. Is that happening? Do
they see an ir Is it one of those things
that could prevent activity? Possibly, but we don't know that.
And if a gorilla is caught on a trail camera,
clearly I'll post these photos as well on the blog
with everything else, so you guys can see it for yourself,
see it with your own eyes. It's a real photograph
of this very elusive type of gorilla in this area.
It can be done with them. Is it possible we
can get a photograph of a bigfoot or a sasquatch
on trailcam? I think so. I don't think it's one
of those things that we should just dismiss as a
community whole cloth, because that's the thing people say it's
a double edged sword. Skeptics come and say, where's the
photographs you have bigfoot on your property that you have
cameras out? No, why don't you have cameras out because
Joe from the local Bigfoot research group said I shouldn't
put cameras out because of it are run to sam
squatches off. Okay, we're definitely not going to get into
trailcam video or steal photos. If every Yahoo that's in
the community believes that Bigfoot can manipulate the cameras or
they avoid the cameras, it just doesn't make sense that
as a community we wouldn't use all the tools of available. Again,
I think it goes to that's one of those things
that scientists may look at and go The first thing
I would do if I were trying to find some
large undiscovered primate in this general area is set up
camera traps. If you don't have to have it manned,
you can go check the cameras at your leisure. You
should capture something if you're seeing this evidence, if you're
seeing footprints and you've gotten a hair sample, and there's
this big turd over here that you think the sasquatch
left behind. Put a fucking trail camera up there, and
maybe you'll catch Sam Squatch on the trail cam. But
nobody's doing that because now the general consensus in the
community is they hide from trail cameras, they avoid trail cams,
they see an IR, none of which has ever been
proven because nobody knows. So why not do that. That's
all I'm gonna say about that. If you guys think
you have activity, put a trail camera out. I've done
it here on my property. I've never captured anything on
the trail camp, but I've at least tried it. Do
it in your research here. You may get lucky. You
may be the next big discovery. Who knows. I think
we've beaten that horse to death. I don't want to
get into the videos and stuff that we were going
to talk about today. We'll save that for the next episode.
There is some stuff that we want to talk about
as far as videos and some of the AI stuff
that's going around, some of this evidence that people are
claiming to be Bigfoot. I want to get in your knowledge,
training and experience and breaking some of this stuff down
and why it's probably not a Bigfoot and it's most
likely AI, but we'll do that on the next episode
of the show. If you guys want to hear something
specific from us, shoot me an email Brian at Paranormalworldproductions
dot com. We'll add it to the hopper and maybe
talk about it on a future show. You can always
leave us a voicemail. The button's right there on the
website in the contact section. We love to get those
voicemails and maybe we'll play them on the show on
a future episode. If you want to be a part
of the show, Hogan, any last words from you man
that you want to leave with the good people in
Bigfoot World.
Speaker 3: I'm curious about what you've got coming up in the
near future.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that I've got a shameless plug.
The documentary that we were filming when I had my
encounters last summer is coming out in a couple of weeks.
It's going to debut in the United Kingdom and I
think nineteen or twenty theaters, so it's actually going to
be in cinemas as they call them. Over across the Pond.
I shared a post that Daniel put out yesterday or
day before yesterday. Some people have said they've clicked the
link and it's not working. It really doesn't matter because
it's not even in the United States at this point.
It'll be here a couple of weeks after that, so
just stay tuned. We'll certainly announce it. We're planning on
getting the group together. It'll probably be me, Ryan RPG, Golumbeski, Daniel,
his dad, Craig. We may get Bobo involved. We're going
to try to get as many people that were involved
in the project on and talk a little bit about that,
talk about the premiere and when it's going to be
in the US. It's going to be in theaters here
in a limited engagement stateside after this happens over in
the United Kingdom over the next couple of weeks. I'm
not going to talk specifically about who's distributing the film
because I don't know that's public knowledge, but it'll eventually
end up outside of the theaters, very much like you
expect any other movie. It'll come to some streaming platform
or platforms eventually, but all that's happening in the next
couple of weeks. I'm imagining, as I've said before, it
will probably hit streaming platforms at some point in time
before the end of the year, hopefully sooner rather than later.
We'll make more announcements as that's coming out, But I
do have a camp out that's scheduled here next week
as we record this on September twelfth, thirteenth, and fourteenth.
It's about two to three hours away from us here
and our property in North Carolina. But I'm actually going
to do a post about that here shortly, so if
you follow me on Facebook, Instagram and check out our
Bigfoot Encounters and Field Research group on Facebook, I'll do
a post over there as well. I think we've got
four spots left before that's completely full. It's a great place.
I've interviewed at least one guy who's had an encounter
just yards away from where we're going to be camping.
It's going to be an amazing weekend. If nothing else,
we'll get out in the woods and have a good
time with everybody, and then we'll sit around the campfire
and tell some tales and have a good time. All
your food is included, all your drinks are included in
the price that you'll see. If you're interested in that,
you can head over to Ncigfoot Adventures dot Com. I'll
link to that in the show notes if you want
to be involved in that. If we get this out
before then that's really it for me.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 2: That's all I have is the big announcement for the
documentary coming out. I've been waiting for this for over
a year. I'm excited for that. I've seen the full
finished documentary. We actually showed it up in Pennsylvania before
I had to leave and promptly go to the hospital
a couple of weeks ago. It's great, man. I've really
enjoyed the reaction that people have had to the film.
I hope everybody that's listening is interested, will go check
it out. Excellent. There you have it, folks. Until next time,
we'll see you, guys. Take care of all.
Speaker 4: I can't out. I can't, I can't give out. I
can