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So go to 42 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:54.879 chumpacasino dot com and play over one hundred casino style games. 43 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:57.400 Join today and play for free for your chance to 44 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:01.799 redeem some serious prices. Jump chump a casino dot com. 45 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:06.599 No necessary quitted terms and condition of secret deals. 46 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:18.919 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 47 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:22.039 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 48 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:29.400 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 49 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:33.120 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 50 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:37.400 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 51 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:41.240 host journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 52 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:57.560 Good Evening. Violent crimes in America have become an epidemic 53 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:01.599 within the past decade or so, with more juvenile offenders 54 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:05.319 taking to the streets. Homicide and murder rates have skyrocketed 55 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.120 as science does their best to study the minds of 56 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:14.360 America's most horrific killers. Amanda Setan would like to invite 57 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:17.080 you to delve into the world of crime and forensics 58 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:20.599 as she provides an analysis of those violent crimes committed 59 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:25.800 by juvenile offenders, mothers, husbands, roommates, ex football players, and 60 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:28.319 one of the most famous sadistic serial killers of the 61 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:32.840 nineteen seventies. The book explores the substantial problem the United 62 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:37.159 States of America's facing with violent crimes not just committed 63 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:42.599 by adults, but juveniles offenders as well. The book that 64 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:46.159 we're profiled in this evening is Violent Crimes in America 65 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:49.439 and the forensic disciplines used to solve them with my 66 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.159 special guest, journalist and author Amanda Setan. Welcome to the 67 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:56.199 program and thank you for agreen to this interview. Amanda Setan, 68 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.280 thank you for inviting me. Thank you very much much. 69 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.599 A very provocative book, and let's get right to that 70 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:07.400 without getting too much away. Maybe you can maybe it's 71 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.120 probably because of your background, but I don't want to 72 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.840 put words in your mouth. Tell us exactly why what 73 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.160 compelled you to write this book at this time? What 74 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.360 brought you to the writing of Violent Crimes in America. 75 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:29.240 When I first enrolled into my bachelor's degree, I had 76 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:34.240 a strong interest in homeland security, and throughout my studies 77 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:38.600 I delved a little bit into the area of forensics 78 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:42.399 that they had used in order to track down terrorists 79 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:46.000 and or solve the terrorist crimes that have taken place 80 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.680 not just in America but across the world. And with 81 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:54.120 delving into the world of forensics, it became rather interesting 82 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:58.240 with all the unsolved murders and cases that have been 83 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:01.639 going on, more specifically in the past decade, or so, 84 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:06.800 and so I decided that it would be interesting to 85 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:12.160 obtain the master's in forensics. And with starting the masters 86 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:16.920 in Forensics, I realized that forensics is a very interesting 87 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:21.560 category of science that is very young and a lot 88 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:26.120 of it is very unknown. Misconceptions often occur, and so 89 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:29.800 I felt that by writing a book, I would be 90 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:32.920 able to portray some of those misconceptions in the reality 91 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.560 behind forensics to make it easier for people to understand. 92 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:41.720 Oh great, Okay, well that's a great segue. So let's 93 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:45.439 get into exactly what forensic what you mean by when, 94 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:51.040 what's the definition of in your mind, what forensic disciplines are, 95 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:54.639 and then tell us about just go through a couple 96 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.279 of the myths that people really do believe that about 97 00:05:58.319 --> 00:05:59.439 forensics itself. 98 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:05.360 Well, I believe that forensic discipline is the application of 99 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:12.959 science and opinion put together in order to create the 100 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:17.920 outcome of various different testing and the applications that they 101 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:22.000 would use in court. Some of the common misconceptions that 102 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:27.279 are used are the CSI effect, where victims and family 103 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:30.879 members often believe that the police can solve a crime 104 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:34.759 in an hour, where realistically it can take weeks, weeks, months, 105 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:37.519 and years and sometimes I never solved it at all. 106 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:43.600 And the other one is the biggest one that I had, 107 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.800 was that they're not able to get DNA out of 108 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:52.000 fire victims or victims that have been submerged in water. 109 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:55.079 So I felt that it was important to bring to 110 00:06:55.079 --> 00:07:00.199 the forefront that they are able to extract DNA from 111 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:02.600 those types of victims. 112 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:08.120 Now, is there some hindrance? Is there some issue? I mean, 113 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:12.800 I have heard about that water would destroy DNA or 114 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:16.959 because of the composition. So tell us really what the 115 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:21.600 truth is regarding DNA and being submerged or in water 116 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:22.639 for a length of time. 117 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:26.600 Well, the problem with the victim being submerged in water 118 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:31.920 is you have the fear of fish and other sea 119 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:35.959 creatures eating away the soft tissue that would be needed 120 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.800 in order to abstract that DNA. But they have found 121 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:44.639 with finding victims and water that they are able to 122 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:50.120 abstract it out of the bones themselves instead of needing 123 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:53.720 the typical soft tissue that one would typically find. 124 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.920 I see, And what about what was the why did 125 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.600 people believe I guess the serial killer might there might 126 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:05.680 be a myth among serial killers as well that they 127 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.879 just burned the body. But what I had read was 128 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:12.680 that it's too low a temperature to destroy the body. 129 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:15.399 So again just what you said, as long as there's bones, 130 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.000 then there's possibility of DNA regardless of fire. 131 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:23.759 Exactly they had There was a case out in California 132 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:27.000 of what they believe was caused by a group of 133 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.800 gang members. But they had cut the foot off of 134 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.559 a teenager with a machete and they had burnt it 135 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.960 in the backyard, and when police had located the flood 136 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:41.279 they had, they were actually able to extract DNA from 137 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:44.759 the charm remains, which ultimately led to them being able 138 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:47.200 to identify the teenager. 139 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.320 Now, of course everyone's heard of DNA, and DNA is 140 00:08:54.360 --> 00:09:03.000 a godsend to police and prosecutors and officials in law 141 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:06.360 and security in every country. But what are some of 142 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:10.519 the other some of the other things that are involved 143 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:13.919 in forensics, some of the other disciplines themselves, not disciplines, 144 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.720 but some of the other we'll say skills that are 145 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:18.879 involved in forensics. 146 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:23.679 Well, with forensics being such a wide area of science, 147 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.639 it really comes down to these special skills that the 148 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:34.840 scientists and experts hold themselves, such as you have a pathologist, 149 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:38.960 you have a biologist, you have a psychologist, and they 150 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:42.840 are just simply a pathologist, a biologist, and a psychologist 151 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:47.159 until it comes down to a crime. Then that's where 152 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:50.000 the forensic actually comes into play. That's where they use 153 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:57.080 their expertise in order to basically say that the likelihood 154 00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:01.399 of this happening is great. So a biologist would or 155 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:06.159 a botanist would study plants, whereas a psychologist would study 156 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:09.320 the mind of the criminal and see the likelihood of 157 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.240 them actually being able to commit that crime. 158 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:16.679 Now do we have issues in terms of again you 159 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:19.200 say about the CSI effects, everybody thinks in an hour 160 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.240 that something gets solved and that inevitably everything will get 161 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:27.600 solved because they have these wonder kinds of science and 162 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:34.519 these incredible labs. My question is is with the budget constraints, 163 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:41.519 is every jurisdiction equipped with the kind of forensic abilities 164 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:45.600 basically the budget to be able to conduct forensic testing 165 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:51.240 very much not very much like CSI, But is that 166 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:58.159 sort of considerate on these kinds of budgets for being 167 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:02.759 able to have full forensic testing that's necessary for all 168 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:05.799 kinds of crimes that might warrant it. 169 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:11.720 Money is definitely an issue, especially when it comes to 170 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:17.440 smaller towns such as the small town in Utah with 171 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:22.200 the mother who had killed her seven children. The States 172 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:25.039 did not have the money nor the technology in order 173 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:27.320 to test the DNA and the remains of the children 174 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:29.879 found in the garage, so they had to send the 175 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:34.240 remains to the federal lab of the FBI in order 176 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:37.559 to obtain DNA to try to figure out that caut 177 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:43.080 the manner of death, which is a huge problem with 178 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:47.759 smaller crime labs, smaller cities, cities that have a lower budget. 179 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:54.840 So really that can cause cases to go hold, cases 180 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:59.720 to be unsolved, and ultimately criminals walking free because they 181 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.960 do not have the time, energy, money, and the manpower 182 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.799 that it takes to put the science behind their crimes 183 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:11.120 and solve them. 184 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:15.919 So it's so science and forensic testing and laboratories and 185 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:19.000 those kinds of budgets are even more than just personnel 186 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:27.120 would normally be in equipment exactly. Okay, Now, tell us 187 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:31.240 about some of the cases that you decided to write 188 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.039 about in your book, and tell us I think the 189 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:39.000 audience is interested in this most stadistic serial killer of 190 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:42.879 the nineteen seventies, who it is and why did you 191 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:47.039 write about this particular serial killer. What was it about 192 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:52.559 their signature, their characteristic, about their crime itself, their murder itself. 193 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.200 What was it that you wanted to convey? Why did 194 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.159 you pick this particular killer. 195 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:06.840 Well, America has seen hundreds of sadistic serial killers over 196 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:09.720 the past forty fifty years, but I felt that one 197 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:13.360 of the most interesting the study would be Ted Bundy. 198 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:17.159 And it's not mainly because he was a serial killer. 199 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.559 It was the manner of which he committed his crimes 200 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.960 and the excuses and or reasoning behind his crimes that 201 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:28.840 he had used and that he was so forthcoming to 202 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:37.799 explain during his interviews before his execution. And in researching Bundy, 203 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:42.279 it interested me because he had stated that from a 204 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.960 young age he had been addicted to violent pornographic images 205 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:53.519 and he had an issue with his mother rejecting him 206 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:57.399 throughout life. He was rejected, he was a failure in school, 207 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:01.559 and so he really went back on that pornographic material 208 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:05.600 in order to gain some control back in his life, 209 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:13.720 which ultimately led to him killing dozens of women across America. 210 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:21.360 So this is an issue where has come up in 211 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:24.919 because there's been endless conversation about Ted Bundy and how 212 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.960 forthcoming he actually was and why he was not forthcoming originally, 213 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.000 and a lot of people know about Ted Bundy. This 214 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:39.679 program we've done, Kevin Sullivan examined Ted Bundy. I first 215 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.679 interviewed Anne Rule, who worked of course at the Crisis 216 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:46.480 Hotline next door to next to Ted Bundy. And it's 217 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:52.159 great that the revelations that he did have, but I've 218 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.639 what I as not issue, but some people have issue 219 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:01.679 with the drawing too much emphasis from that. Certainly he 220 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.279 did view violent pornography and certainly a lot of serial 221 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.360 killers would would say that same sort of thing. But 222 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:12.120 at the same time, if you look at Ted Bundy 223 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:19.320 and the life that he was dealt, he at a 224 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:24.279 time when he was enjoying great success, almost self sabotaged 225 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.039 himself and considering the things that you know, his mother 226 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:30.600 telling me has adopted all these things and finding out 227 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:35.799 the truth, does it really still explain Ted Bundy? And 228 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:38.799 sorry for getting away from you with Ted Bundy, But 229 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:41.879 what did you really what could you really conclude from 230 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:45.759 Ten Bundy looking at the research that you did for 231 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.960 this book, well, the research. 232 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:52.279 Briand Ted Bundy, obviously there was a lot of that. 233 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:55.480 A lot of people have their basic opinions on him, 234 00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:01.679 including experts. The bottom line is we do not know 235 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:06.320 for sure whether or not the violent pornographic material and 236 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:12.440 or videos were truly the cause of his violent crimes, 237 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.559 which could also be said about the drug and alcohol 238 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:20.320 addition that he claimed that he had. But we can 239 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:24.440 say that it definitely did have a play in his 240 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:29.480 behavior and it may very well have been the cause 241 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.159 of him committing his first crime. But after committing that 242 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:37.840 first crime, he could very well have just gained control 243 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.519 back into himself and he needed to keep feeding into 244 00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:44.120 that in order to keep feeling like he's in control 245 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:46.919 since a good portion of his life he had not been. 246 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.720 Yeah, I mean, there's always the argument though, that people 247 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:57.759 watch violent movies and aren't violent, or if they would 248 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:02.720 be hard pressed to blame their violent behavior, they're murderous 249 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:07.720 behavior on watching murderous movies, because otherwise we have a 250 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.839 I mean, it would be never mind epidemic all the 251 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:13.920 people that are playing violent video games and watching violent movies. 252 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:16.960 I mean, it's in a sort of American pastime. There's 253 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:22.559 almost now the murder comedy, you know, a lightheighted murder mystery, 254 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.039 or so it's I think there's something to be said 255 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:31.880 that the desensitize being desensitized and being conditioned. If somebody 256 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:34.279 were to look at violent child porn at a young age, 257 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.640 at least they believe that there's other people that think 258 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.880 like they do. Is it a break from reality? Do 259 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.880 they think that this actually occurs? But still does not 260 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:49.880 really explain ted Bundy, I mean over and beyond one 261 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.359 external thing being the creator of that. And I hate 262 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.519 to argue about one thing creating this, but I've looked 263 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:02.400 at a lot of serial killers as well, and I 264 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:07.440 think everyone can say safely that, given that they share 265 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:13.279 certain characteristics, despite that, there's no real explaining how people 266 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:15.759 have the capability to kill ten or twelve or eight 267 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.920 or people in this kind of manner. Wouldn't you agree? 268 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:22.759 I do agree with you, But I think that the 269 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.839 same thing could be said about you know, Dahmer and Caacy, 270 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:29.160 the Son of Sam, all the way down to the 271 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.839 Green River Killer. They could sit there all day and 272 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:37.079 say that they had addiction problems, but millions of Americans 273 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:39.880 and people all over the world suffer from addiction problems, 274 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.839 and they don't go on mass murder sprees. 275 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:48.880 Right, That's my point. Yeah, there's something unique about and 276 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.519 I think that's why people are so fascinated by people 277 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:53.920 that not only serial killers. I mean, you don't have 278 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:56.680 to kill a bunch of people to be, you know, 279 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.640 to terrorize people, like you say, there are terrorists there. 280 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:02.880 People have traumatized people and they're never the same for 281 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:05.000 the rest of their lives. And your book is not 282 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.359 just talking about murder and serial killing, talking about violent 283 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:14.359 crime and the trends that are there. So what did 284 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.599 you see in terms of the most disturbing trend You've 285 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:22.160 talked about murder rates skyrocketing. From everything I've read, they 286 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.000 seem to be downplaying that violent crime is on or 287 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:29.599 murder is down from traditionally, say nineteen ninety or so. 288 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:33.920 Tell us what you did find the most disturbing trends 289 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:35.599 in your research for this book. 290 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:41.519 The biggest trend that seems to be skyrocketing across America's 291 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:48.319 violent crimes where juvenile offenders are the ones being blame 292 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:54.960 for it. Juveniles are taking away from the typical vandalism 293 00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:00.319 and stealing and they're committing horrific crimes such as rape, murder, 294 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:02.720 all the way down to killing their own parents and 295 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:03.799 their children. 296 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.319 And what's the trend in terms of are the perpetrators 297 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:15.079 getting younger, are the crimes more savage, is it more 298 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:19.000 a pack mentality, gang mentality, or are those in those 299 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:19.720 trends as well. 300 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:25.920 I don't really quite think the gang mentality is quite 301 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.279 bland for this. It is true the gang still do 302 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.839 exist and they are quite bad, But in this case, I 303 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:35.160 do believe they're getting younger children to be accused of 304 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.480 murder all the way down to the age of eight. 305 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:43.359 An example, you have two twelve year olds and Waukeshaw, 306 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:47.720 Wisconsin who have just recently been arrested and charged with 307 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:52.039 attempted murder for stabbing their friend nineteen times because they 308 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:59.759 were addicted to some cult behavior. But again, I do 309 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.720 not believes that this is gang related. I just believe 310 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:06.720 that parents are not involved in their children's lives as 311 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.240 much as they used to be. They're not there for 312 00:21:09.319 --> 00:21:12.079 their titsulate they used to be, and juveniles are getting 313 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:16.799 a common sense that committing these crimes are almost a 314 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:21.400 way of showing who they are, what they're capable of, 315 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.920 and they're not really taking in the consideration the consequences 316 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.000 of their actions. 317 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:37.000 Yeah, you talk about how you're talking about the juveniles. Also, 318 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:43.039 you did extensive research regarding juveniles and talked about the 319 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:46.839 juvenile spends more time than the adult, that there's been 320 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.319 changes in the judicial system as well that have not 321 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:53.920 helped the juvenile as well. Tell us a little bit 322 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:56.519 more about all of the things. Are some more of 323 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.839 the things that you've found. In terms of what you 324 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.319 went in here, you wouldn't have assumed any of this, 325 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.440 So tell us what you did really find regarding the 326 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:13.599 differences now as previously regarding juveniles. 327 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:16.119 Well with the juvenile course, with them being as young 328 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.279 as it really is, it's only roughly about one hundred 329 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:24.680 and fourteen years old, the differences in the penalty phrase 330 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:28.240 of the crimes that they had committed has changed drastically 331 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:33.880 since they went from reform poems to placing juveniles and 332 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:39.000 juvenile detention centers. The problem that has been found with 333 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:44.279 this is that juveniles do spend more time on average 334 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:49.839 in a correctional facility than their adult counterparts, such as 335 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:55.079 a fourteen year old gets in trouble for raping a 336 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:59.319 fellow high school student and they get placed into juvenile 337 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.200 detentions until the age of twenty one, where they had 338 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:04.759 then moved to an adult prison, where they will sit 339 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:07.200 on average another four to six years before they were 340 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:12.599 are reliefed on probation. Their adult counterpart can sit anywhere 341 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:17.480 from no jail time at all with probation or supervision 342 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:21.880 all the way up to a max of twenty five 343 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.000 years to life depending on the aggravating factor. But six 344 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.759 times out of ten, the juvenile is going to spend 345 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:33.079 at least three to five more years in prison than 346 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:36.279 an adult that had committed the same crime. 347 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:45.119 And the programming that could possibly possibly rehabilitate someone that 348 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:49.759 will say that could be rehabilitated based on community support 349 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:52.559 and just getting to them, I guess young right at 350 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:55.559 least that's there are cases of this anyway, and that's 351 00:23:55.559 --> 00:24:00.799 the idea. Well, what about where's the programming go is it? 352 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:06.119 Is it prioritized towards the youth offender with the with 353 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.839 the distinct uh reasoning behind that to intervene at this 354 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:12.559 young age tell us about programming. 355 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.359 Well, through my research, I have concluded that they do 356 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:24.319 have rehabilitation programs for juveniles, both within the juvenile detention 357 00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:29.200 center and correctional facilities and in the community. But when 358 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.119 they placed the juveniles in the community rehabilitation programs. It's 359 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:36.279 more more of the burden has put on the parents 360 00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:41.119 than the actual juvenile themselves, whereas in the correctional facility, 361 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.039 the juvenile has to take responsibility for those actions and 362 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.599 they must complete the rehabilitation program in order to be released. 363 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:55.279 Right, You said too that judges have lost their discretionary 364 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:01.920 abilities to to have discretion on w which juveniles would 365 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:05.240 warrant in cases of murder and serious rape and robbery 366 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:10.200 where they would be put up to adult court. Now, 367 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:13.359 what's that from? Is that from sort of a continuum 368 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:18.799 of the mandatory minimum and restrict sort of sentencing that's 369 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.799 strict sentencing with guidelines. Tell us how that comes to be. 370 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:30.640 Yeah, the new truth and Sentencing laws does allow judges 371 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:38.799 and jurisdictions to sentence juveniles that have committed crimes such 372 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:43.039 as serious rape, aggravated assaults, murder, and stuff like that. 373 00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:47.599 So we tried as an adult, which then allows them 374 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:53.079 to try them and sentence them to the max as 375 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:59.599 opposed to where they're charged as a juvenile. They would 376 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.519 so long as a juvenile facility, and then they would be 377 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.599 released back into the community where they would require undergoing 378 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.680 treatment and rehabilitation services through the community. 379 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:19.759 What else did you find with your research with juveniles 380 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:21.640 that was particularly disturbing. 381 00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:29.000 I think the biggest thing that was disturbing me through 382 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:33.039 researching juveniles is the manner in which they are treated. 383 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:40.039 They are almost treated as an epidemic or applying that's 384 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.480 going through the court system that needs to be dealt with, 385 00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:45.160 but they don't want to deal with it on the 386 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.359 level of dealing with a child. They just want to 387 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.480 deal with it on the level of them committing the 388 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:54.519 same crime as an adult without taking to regard the 389 00:26:54.559 --> 00:27:02.480 juveniles and more rehabilitative than adults are later. And I 390 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:08.799 also think that with juveniles, they have lost sense or track, 391 00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:11.799 if you will, of what to do with them because 392 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:14.359 the crimes are getting more severe, they're starting at a 393 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:19.200 younger age, and they're really losing track of what punishment 394 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:24.799 and or rehabilitative services really work in order to prevent 395 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:34.359 them from continuing on with their criminality later in life. 396 00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:40.559 What have you concluded at least how would you address this? 397 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:43.599 What would you address first, and how would you address it. 398 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:51.160 I am a big supporter of taking juveniles and looking 399 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.759 at their circumstances and really going on a case to 400 00:27:54.839 --> 00:28:01.640 case basis. I am a big supporter of maximum penalties 401 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:05.880