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Speaker 1: How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads?

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Speaker 2: Easy?

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Speaker 1: Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You

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get access to a private RSS feed where all the

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you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign

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up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey,

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dot ed rockers, it's another geek out?

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Speaker 2: Is that down again?

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Speaker 1: I'm Carl and that's Richard. Hey, mostly Richard's stuff in

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this show, I'm gonna be asking dumb questions and agreeing

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with him. We're disagreeing. I doubt I'll disagree that much.

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Speaker 2: You try. But you know I work pretty hard to

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be pretty middle of the road on a lot of

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this stuff.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yes, you do, Yeah, and work hard you do.

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So this is our annual space geek out, right.

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Speaker 2: Richard, Yes, it's time for the space geek out. It's

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been a good year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but before we do that, let's do a little better.

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No framework awesome?

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Speaker 2: All right? Man?

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Speaker 1: What got Okay? Well, our friend Brian McKay sent me this.

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Speaker 2: That guy again, I know that guy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he sent us this. Basically it's called suno s

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uno dot com and you can essentially create your own

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song music with lyrics with the vocalist just by creating

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a prompt.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, and Brian really loves this because you know,

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he doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Have because he's not you who could make a song.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't have a recording studio. He can't lay

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down tracks, you know. So so I kind of see this.

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Speaker 2: Or incredible experience and expertise and making music, you know,

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years of effort.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so at first I was At first, I was,

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you know, like you, I had a negative reaction, like

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you know. Also, it didn't help that he was saying

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all the recording companies are out of business.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, which is daft not true.

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Speaker 1: Well, they're already screwed, you know, they're.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, mostly scumbacks, right like the

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artists are. So we're gonna have a hard time being

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unhappy about it when those guys are done, because they

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have been providing value for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And I also think that, you know, when you have

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these things out there and people are hearing them and

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then learning that they're AI generated or whatever, they tend

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to swing back the other way. They want to go

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out and see live music that's done by real people,

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and they want to you know, engage with their favorite

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bands and stuff all over again. And it's kind of

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like what happened with Vinyl, right, you know, people come

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back to the stars.

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Speaker 2: I think the Vinyl thing is bizarre to me because

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it's an it's not that good a reproduction of music,

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per se.

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Speaker 1: No, but it's the romance of it that people like.

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The ritual.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the ritual. Yeah, I'm with you. And you know,

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I think part of it is that in contemporary music

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these days, with the Spotify's and so forth, music is

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totally background. And if there's any person who taught me

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about music being listened to, it was you, because.

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Speaker 1: I, oh, really, and you've been a listener of music

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for a long long time though.

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Speaker 2: Sure, sure, but I've never What I learned from you

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was like, you never want to be background music. If

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I'm playing, it's you want to listen to me? Yeah,

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you don't want to listen to me. I'm not going

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to play, right, And I realized I don't play music

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all the time because I tend to play music to

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listen to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And that's a dying practice. I think there

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are less people with really good Hi fi systems and

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speakers where they go into a dark room and they

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put on an album or something and just listen. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's very rare and imdally I don't

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have that kind of gear, you know. I think my

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best sounding system is my Bow's earbuds. Yeah yeah, because

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they're they're super local and they they're noise suppressing, so

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I just hear the music.

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Speaker 1: So the way I and as I said before, my

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first reaction was like, you know.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: But the way I look at it now now that

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I've had some time because he first told me about this,

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you know, way earlier in the year, The way I

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look at it now is sort of like the evolution

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of the cassio keyboard, you know, and maybe.

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Speaker 2: Right right, which was a joke and then became an instrument, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And maybe garage band, you know, where people who don't

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really know how to play or do anything can put

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together music. And I just see it as sort of

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an evolution of that so that the people who aren't

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musicians can get the same sort of satisfaction, right that

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somebody who writes and record as a song would.

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Speaker 2: Have, you know, admittedly without the work, but also a

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limited ability to do anything about it too. So yeah,

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it's a toy, but it's a toy that leads to

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more creativity. I think that's cool.

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Speaker 1: But if you listen to some of the songs just

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on son dot com, you'll think, what that sounds like

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a professionally recorded wow song? Yeah that how can that

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not be a human? But so I don't know like

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where they're getting their samples from and how they're redoing things.

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Speaker 2: That's always the question, isn't Yeah, yeah, I can't tell

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you how people have now sent me copies of of

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AI generated podcasts where the male voice sounds like me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like I haven't. I haven't received one of those yet,

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but you can easily make one.

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Speaker 2: I mean yeah, so but I am I. Is it

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likely that my voice has been sampled? Yeah? Pretty likely?

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Probably thousand hours out there, you know, like, yeah, what

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are you gonna do? Right? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: Right? Anyway? So that's it, thanks Brian, and we'll have

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more from him, I'm sure in subsequent episodes. So you

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got a comment, Richard, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Grabbed a comment off of a geek out. Actually I

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went back to the Interplanetary Transport System. Geekout. That's thirteen

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sixty four, the one we did back in twenty sixteen,

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which was when Elon started talking about the vehicle that

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would become Starship.

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Speaker 1: Elon the next president of the United States.

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Speaker 2: I thought he was a Speaker of the House. I'm sorry, oh,

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well whatever, whatever. But yeah, you know, he had this

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whole idea of the its and being on having a

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million pede on Mars by twenty fifty, which all of

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which I think is a kind of an insane idea

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and you know, questionably and smart, but it he focused

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on the real problem, which is less expensive lift the space,

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which is what SpaceX has been doing all along, right,

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like right before SpaceX it was about twenty thousand akilo

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to lower th arbit and then I mean today, I

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think a Falcon nine is maybe eighteen hundred dollars a kilo,

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and Starship at being fully reusable could be under one

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hundred dollars. Is astonishing.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: If it works, it's making progress, but it's not there

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without scorching the earth, blowing holes in the ground or

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any of those fun things. Yeah, like if they're working

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that stuff out, yeah, way sure, lots of comments on

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that show, and admittedly these are a few years ago,

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but the comment I grab is from James O'Sullivan who says, Hi,

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Richrid and Carl, longtime listener, first time caller, great show.

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As always, you pair have been keeping me entertained and

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educated on my commutes since the early hundreds.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay of episodes, right, So okay, it occurred to me

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that there doesn't have to be any single launch missions.

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When a payload requires all the fuel to achieve orbit,

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that vehicle just be parked and then provided a sufficient

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fuel leftover. You know, you can park the launch vehicle

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away a bit and then maybe this is all science fiction,

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but a tanker mission could be used to refuel the

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vehicles and then you can do subsequent fly from there,

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which is exactly what's being proposed, right, even for the

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upcoming lunar missions or a star is that they want

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to build a tanker solution with starship to do these things.

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You know, the vast majority of fuel gets consumed trying

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to get into orbit and it limits missions. In fact,

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this will come up a few times in the geek

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Out today, right, And so solving the tanking problem something

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that's never been done. We've never transferred fuel between the

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vehicles before in orbit will be an interesting challenge, and

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certainly in the cars it's.

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Speaker 1: A challenge if you think about it, because all right,

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you take all this fuel to get off the ground,

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so the tanker also has to get a lot of

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fuel to get off the ground, and how much of

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it is left by the time they get to the

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to the you know.

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Speaker 2: The fully loaded fueled starship stack as it stands today

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is about five thousand metric tons and it gets about

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one hundred potentially one hundred metric tons to orbit, which

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is actually credible. So yeah, so it could do to

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be able to fully fuel the thing to be, the

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tankers will not be able to transport that much fuel

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when in the original the current set of proposals for

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the starship based moon Lander, there's between like four and

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sixteen refuelings of that lander once they get into orbit

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before it can fly to the Moon.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk on a previous space geek out about

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having a solar powered station on the Moon that would

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generate fuel, so that could be like a dock to

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jump off to Mars or something like that.

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Speaker 2: There's a few options there. I mean One of the

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issues here is that chemical fuel is very heavy for

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its total power. Like a nuclear fueled rocket or operating

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rocket would only have to carry propell and it wouldn't

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also need the oxidizer, so that gets more efficient. We've

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talked about electrical energy systems, so hal effect thrusters where

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you're only carrying a little bit of fuel and you're

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using electricity to accelerate that fuel turn it into a plasma.

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It's not a lot of thrust, but it's very efficient,

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and you could offload that energy generation with microwaves. So

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between the Earth and the Moon, you could reasonably use

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a microwave relay system to operate that. There's all kinds

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of interesting ideas in this space.

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Speaker 1: Microwaves are great, just don't get in the middle of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends on the frequency of the microwave. Most

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of the time microwaves won't affect people at all. It's

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just if you happen to use the microwave frequency at

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tuned to water, it'll burn you, but just burn Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I guess I was thinking of microwaves for power, right,

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I mean, they have to be a pretty high whatever

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it is watts, volts amps in order to work over

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long distances, and those things would fry you if you

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happen to walk onto it.

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Speaker 2: Or they'd pass right through you, one or the other, right, Like,

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it depends on the frequency, whether not they're interact with

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yourselves or not. Photons are funny that way. You know

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you have estrinos going through all the time.

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Speaker 1: Well I knew that. I just thought microwaves were a

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particular wavelength that was very small all that been focused

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and therefore could be really damaging.

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Speaker 2: The microwave band is larger than you think, So it depends.

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The answer is it depends. But yeah, in general, don't

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hang out with micro.

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Speaker 1: This is why I like talking to you, Richard, because

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you know, I clear up these misnomers that.

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Speaker 2: It's more complicated than you think, and so is everything,

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right Like, that's sort of the reality of it. So, James, Hey,

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thanks so much for your comment, admittedly a few years ago,

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but still relevant today. And a copy of music Cobey

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is on its way to you, And if you'd like

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a copy of music Code, I read a comment on

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the website at dot NetRocks dot com or on the facebooks.

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We publish every show there, and if you comment there

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and I read on the show, we'll send you copy

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music co buy.

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Speaker 1: Music to code by is your friend for coding. You

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should not code without it. Go to music to code

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by dot net if you don't, in fact, win a

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free copy. But you can do that also by getting

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on the social media's where we've been on ex Twitter

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for a long time. Of course, we're on Blue Sky

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and we're I'm astaed on and I think even on threads,

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but I'm not really paying attention to threads, are you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I check threads that I post on threads,

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but yeah, and it's got a lot more users in

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Blue Sky, but not at the same level of engagement.

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Speaker 1: And I think we're on Instagram too by nature of

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the fact that we have dot net rocks on.

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Speaker 2: Facebook, right sort of. Yeah, I really have never paid

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because always some p Instagram is very picture centric and

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that's not what a podcast is. Yeah, all right, so

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do you want to do the history thing.

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Speaker 1: Let's do the history thing just really briefly. So this

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is episode nineteen thirty, and this is when the Great

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Depression was really in full swing.

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Speaker 2: Get going, right, Yeah, So.

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Speaker 1: In twenty nine the you know, more than four million

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people were unemployed as a result of the crash, and

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notable events included the discovery of Pluto yeah by Arizona scientists,

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and the first US Census question regarding radio ownership, reflecting

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the growing interest in communication technology. Cool what else you

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got for nineteen thirty.

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Speaker 2: The year that sliced bread was invented? Really true? Yeah? Yeah?

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Is that that late?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 2: I wonder why trying to get be more efficient with bread?

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Funny that, And you know, discovering Pluto's not a trivial problem.

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He kind of got lucky that he took to Tombak,

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took two pictures of the same area in space and

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saw it and saw Pluto moving through it because it's

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very dim and not gravitationally irrelevant and not a planet,

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never rt a planet, a dwarf planet.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard Neil de grass Tyson defend his

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vote on because everybody blames him for killing Pluto right now,

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it wasn't his fault, it was it wasn't his fault

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at all. And he said that there's there's thousands of

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Pluto sized asteroids floating around the Sun that you know,

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we don't call planets because they're not a planet.

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Speaker 2: Well, an there's Pluto. It was Sedna that was really

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the problem, because Sedna, as the calculations came in, was

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going to is larger than Pluto. And so it would

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have if if Pluto is a planet, then said as

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a planet, and at least three or four more, and

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then you get into the smaller ones and the ones

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we haven't seen yet and so forth.

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Speaker 3: It gets hard.

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Speaker 2: So it's not in the ecliptic plane. It transitions across

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some of the the across Neptune's orbit. Yeah, it's a

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dwarf planet. It's fairly All of these definitions are arbitrar.

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Speaker 1: So I thought planet meant wanderer, and.

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Speaker 2: Well that's what the That was the literal translation from

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the grind.

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Speaker 1: And if it orbits around the sun, right, isn't it

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a planet?

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Speaker 2: Well, that means all of the Trojan asteroids and all

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of the debris and the asteroid belt and so forth,

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Like now you get into millions of objects.

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Speaker 1: Right, so I guess at some point you have to

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say it's the size that matters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like it can. And so they've started to fabricate

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a more elaborate description of planets, like clearing your orbital

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playing like that kind of thing and all with degrees

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of issue essentially. But Pluto was absolutely an odd duck

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when you look at its behavior, it doesn't behave the

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same as the other eight planets.

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Speaker 1: But man, those close up images that we came up with.

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Speaker 2: Were beautiful, total miracle, right that way, more interesting than

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anybody ever expected. Astonishing. Really, it was supposed to be

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just a nice ball, totally uninteresting, and we were wrong

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again again. It's a great thing about exploration. You find

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new things, and we found new things.

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Speaker 1: Okay, man, you have the floor.

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Speaker 2: Well, so this is the fourth year in a row

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of a record number of space flights for the world,

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two hundred and fifty one launches, with two hundred and

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forty four successful, five flat out failures, and two partial failures.

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Speaker 3: And we can talk a little bit about those.

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Speaker 1: And that's all over the world, right.

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Speaker 2: All the way around the world. But of that, to

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be clear, one hundred and thirty six of them are

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SpaceX so more than half. Right, Like, it's astonishing. Their

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goal was to fly one hundred and forty four times

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this year. Then they raise it to one hundred and

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forty eight. But now they looks like it's actually gonna

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one hundred and thirty six. Yeah, you know, he's not

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quite done yet. Every time I start thinking ill of Elon,

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I think about SpaceX and then yeah, and admittedly he's

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just one person in this equation and certainly a driving force. Yeah,

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but they're Glenn Shotwell is an extraordinary woman and really

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runs that company well. And there's a huge number of

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engineers creating miracles, you know, making a tremendous program.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic.

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Speaker 2: So the Falcon nines now had over four hundred flights,

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putting it into the league almost by itself only so

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used playing them.

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Speaker 1: Wow. And the Falcon nine is the one that can

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land vertically.

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Speaker 2: It lands. It's yeah, that's landed its booster now over

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three hundred times.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: They've also had a record this year of fastest turnaround

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for a booster. They reflew it two weeks later.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And that included several days transport by barge. She got

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it back into shape and fluid again.

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Speaker 1: So take that Space Shuttle.

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Speaker 2: So if you figure there were one hundred and twenty

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two Falcon nine flights, how many boosters do you think

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there are to fly one hundred and twenty two times

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a year?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Double that. Yeah, there's only eighteen in rotation. What because

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they because they keep reusing them, right, wow, So yeah,

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eighteen boosters currently. Sometimes they throw them away, sometimes they fail,

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but and they old. This year they set a record

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two boosters have set a record now of twenty four flights.

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That's amazing, including at one point they a few times

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this year they flew three times on the same day too,

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because they've got two pads in Florida, one pad into

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California and they use them all on the same day.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, And at the point where we're recording this,

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which is sort of mid December because it comes out

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right after Christmas, there's still more six more flights planned

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for the end of the year to get to that

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one hundred and thirty six. They also flew two Falcon

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heavies this year, and there were five Starship flights this year. Now,

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one of the reasons that SpaceX flies so much compared

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to the rest of the world is of that one

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hundred and twenty two Falcon nine flights, ninety of them

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we're Starlink three more expected in December, So they are

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their own biggest customer, I mean, arguably just the starlink

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flights alone are more flights than the rest of the

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world combined just a few years ago.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Right.

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Speaker 1: Every once in a while, I see somebody post a

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picture on Facebook of the path of the starlinks going by,

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and they're like, anybody know what this is?

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Speaker 2: It's more starlinks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So they they used to fly as many as sixty

379
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satellites per launch, but as they've been coming making them

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bigger to do more, they are typically given flights only

381
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twenty two of the version two starlinks. They're also they

382
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fly the limit of Falcon nine every time with these. Right,

383
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,160
it's a maximum PAYLOAOD about seventeen metric tons. So they've

384
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been pushing Falcons over and over again, so they know

385
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so much about There's now four million subscribers to starlink.

386
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I'm one of them. It's available in ninety countries because

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they limit the downlink locations, all that's gradually changing. This

388
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year's Starlink completed the first constellation of what they're calling

389
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direct to sell, So if you're a T Mobile customer,

390
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you can sign up for the beta program. This is

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in the US only to do text messaging via Starlink.

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Speaker 1: It went to space.

393
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Speaker 2: It went literally went to space, as.

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Speaker 1: Luis k says, So I wanted to know you have starlink.

395
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What is your bandwidth like?

396
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Speaker 2: About four hundred megabits down and two and one hundred

397
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up at twenty milliseconds.

398
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Speaker 1: It's not bad.

399
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Speaker 2: It's not bad. I mean that's totally more than you'll

400
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,359
get at your average hotel. Yeah, or and anything other

401
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,039
than fiber. Really you're not going at any more than that.

402
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,160
So it's as good as any cable connection and things

403
00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:23,920
like that. I was. I was in the first ten thousand.

404
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,519
It was one of the original beta testers because I'm

405
00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:27,359
so far north, so they were very interested in my

406
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,400
location and so I was able to get in early.

407
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,240
And I use it as a backup because I do

408
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,319
have a gigabit fiber surection here and we have regular

409
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power outages and I can keep the star Link up.

410
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It doesn't only consumes about seventy five watts that I

411
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went operating, so it's pretty good.

412
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Speaker 1: When we do the energy geek out, I will ask

413
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you about Wait a minute, is the energy geek out

414
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coming before this?

415
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Speaker 2: No, it's after. Yeah.

416
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Speaker 1: When we do that one, I will ask you again

417
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about failover from generate from electricity to generator power because

418
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I think there may be maybe some advances in.

419
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Speaker 2: That, but yeah, I'm looking at some changes from the coastplace. Yeah,

420
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,359
cool file things on a couple of things left on startlink.

421
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There's sixty seven hundred satellites in the network now as

422
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of twenty twenty four. That's three times more than all

423
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the other satellites combined. So SpaceX rat flies the largest

424
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fleet of satellites by miles, and their goal is to

425
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have twelve thousands, so more than to double that.

426
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Speaker 1: Are people still complaining about them polluting the night sky,

427
00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:34,680
you know, astronomers and things.

428
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Speaker 2: But they're also working hard to have less pollution, so

429
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,519
their machines are less reflective. They're flying them in a

430
00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:46,200
different orientation to minimize the effect for the most part,

431
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:48,839
software and correct for a lot of the problem should

432
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,240
it fly through the field of view during a long observation,

433
00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:56,160
so it's not going to go away. This is you know,

434
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there are other companies and other countries wanting to build

435
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,960
networks like this. Yeah, you know, they lowering of the

436
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,920
price of space flight, which is what Falcone's really done,

437
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,480
which facilitates starlink because these satellites only last for about

438
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,680
five years at best. Oh really, Yeah, they're in such

439
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,039
a low orbit to have that short ping time. They

440
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,480
low latency, and they just the atmosphere's always dragging on them.

441
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Speaker 1: Do they when they're done, do they fall out of

442
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:22,799
space or do they have a they burn up? Yeah,

443
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:25,000
but do they have a control burnt? Do they do?

444
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They fly them down into the water at a place

445
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where now.

446
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Speaker 2: But they're small enough that they so they can land anywhere. Yeah,

447
00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:32,799
they fully burn up. Nothing makes it to the right.

448
00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:35,960
Oh they're small, okay, right, and they have no real

449
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strong structural members, so yeah, they fully burn up. Wow,

450
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:40,880
they're just a little asteroid. Well but you get the

451
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,559
idea that it means they have to keep continuous to

452
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launching them because they're losing them right right. But if

453
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they go, if they fly in a higher orbit, then

454
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the ping time gets longer and the network's not as good. Right.

455
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Speaker 1: It wasn't the goal of starlink to bring Internet access

456
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,960
to places and countries that are remote, you know, African

457
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countries and places where they just don't have the infrastructure.

458
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Speaker 2: But so far the network because it requires immediate downlinking.

459
00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:08,839
You have to have permission to downlink in that country.

460
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,960
And so there's many countries that still allcovered because they're

461
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,279
not offering that. But part of the expansion of the

462
00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:17,720
network the higher shells is to start doing laser relay,

463
00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:20,759
which gets us closer to that whole doctor No effect. Yes,

464
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lasers in space. So the point being that you can

465
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take the connection from the satellite and then relay to

466
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another satellite far enough away that it can downlink somewhere

467
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else so that you don't have to put a lot

468
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:33,799
of downlink notes.

469
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Speaker 1: And information travels pretty fast by laser, does it? Lasers

470
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quick quick, kind of like light.

471
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of exactly like life. There's another network

472
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,400
that's being built by SpaceX for the Department of the

473
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:52,559
Defense called star Shield, and Elon sort of acknowledged he

474
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:57,160
got into a situation around the Ukraine conflict where Ukraini

475
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:02,119
military was counting on starlink this and you know, his

476
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:07,240
relationship with Putin was a problem, and so the DoD

477
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,319
is now paying for a separate network called Starshield that

478
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,640
is military controlled, because he wants Starlink to stay a

479
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,680
civilian network and stay out of that whole problem.

480
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:17,799
Speaker 1: Space Well, Elon's kind of making the budget, so he

481
00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:19,119
should be able to get that money.

482
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean there's a whole argument

483
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,480
here that this is the militarization of space because spaceflight

484
00:24:25,519 --> 00:24:28,480
has gotten so much cheaper. You're also seeing like the

485
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,079
Chinese military is working on rapid iteration and recoverable spacecraft too.

486
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,359
Like right now we only have really one spacecraft that lands.

487
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,160
We have another one that's landed once Starship, but New

488
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,240
Glenn is coming and supposed to be able to land,

489
00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:46,000
and the Chinese government is an experimented with a couple

490
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:46,759
of different landings.

491
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:47,759
Speaker 1: New Glen is what.

492
00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:51,799
Speaker 2: Let's talk about that in a minute, because let's wrap

493
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,480
up with SpaceX first, because the new landing vehicle is Starship, right,

494
00:24:56,839 --> 00:25:01,160
So this is what I referred to in the comment

495
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,319
with the Interplanetary Transport System. It's what evolved into what

496
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,839
is now known as Starship. It's supposed to be a

497
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,519
fully reusable rocket. So I already know how to land boosters,

498
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,920
so they made a much larger booster. So where the

499
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,319
Falcon nine is a three point seven meter diameter or

500
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,440
roughly you know, eleven foot across rocket, this is a

501
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:27,960
nine meter rocket, so thirty foot across. It's enormous. Yeah,

502
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,519
I think Saturn five sides, except it's taller, and of

503
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:35,079
course so the lower stage does it's two and a

504
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,240
half minute burned and would turn around in land, but

505
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:39,400
instead of putting legs on it, because it's so heavy,

506
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:40,960
the legs would be really hard. They're going to do

507
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,759
this crazy They've now done this crazy things where they

508
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:50,720
catch the booster in flight capture of what they call chopsticks,

509
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:57,960
steel arms. God, it would be ridiculous except that it works. Yeah,

510
00:25:58,039 --> 00:26:01,279
in October and on Ift they did it. So I

511
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:05,599
mean they flew four times this year, right Once in

512
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,279
March it was only the third flight, which it was

513
00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:11,279
the first time they actually got the Starship up to orbit,

514
00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:13,079
although it had a malfunction once it got there and

515
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,599
broke up, probably was an explosion. Then in June was

516
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,720
the first complete flight. So this was the booster took

517
00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:22,079
off and then turned around and flew back and landed

518
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,119
so precisely in the ocean that they had put a

519
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,759
camera on a boy and the landing was completely in

520
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:31,480
that shot. Wow, and Starship did its re entry. And

521
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:33,799
this has always been the question mark. You know, it's

522
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:36,319
one thing to get for the booster to come back,

523
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,720
so it's not going that fast, but once you get

524
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,799
to orbit and you're moving twenty five thousand miles an hour,

525
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,359
now you have to slow down again. And so they

526
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,079
had but Starships so big. Normally, when a vehicle re enters,

527
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,759
like even the Space Shuttle in re entry, the plasma

528
00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:57,519
field that's created by re entry completely blocks all communications.

529
00:26:57,799 --> 00:27:01,640
But Starship is so big the backside of the vehicle

530
00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:04,279
is not in a plasma envelope, and so they have

531
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:10,720
real time video via starlink for the entire re entry,

532
00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:12,079
never seen before.

533
00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:12,799
Speaker 1: Wow.

534
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,799
Speaker 2: And on Ift four, which was a really fun one,

535
00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:18,680
they had a camera on one of the flaps to

536
00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:20,720
sort of watch because it was taking the most heat

537
00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:23,640
and it started to burn through. So the heat shields

538
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,039
had blown off there and there's literally flames going through.

539
00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:29,759
You can see this. It's almost becoming X ray is glowing,

540
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,960
white hot pieces flying off of it.

541
00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: Wow.

542
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: And we were expecting at any moment the signal was going

543
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,359
to cut out, and then all of a sudden, it

544
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,240
finished its re entry, went through the transonic regime and

545
00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:43,839
did that pivot to land on its tail in the ocean,

546
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,519
and it worked even with it all partly burned up.

547
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:50,039
It's still phrase function. We called it a little flap

548
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:54,519
that could you know, it was just hanging in there somehow,

549
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,759
and so that I sort of spoke to the resilience

550
00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:02,359
of the And so the October flight where they caught

551
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,440
the booster was also the one where it didntny. The

552
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,519
heat shield system has been vastly improved. And this last flight,

553
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:12,799
just in November, they changed up the times so they

554
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:14,559
were flying in the afternoon seat of the morning, so

555
00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:17,519
that it would be daylight when they landed the Starship

556
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:19,200
so they could see it, and this time they had

557
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,359
a very precise landing. There's a bunch of things that

558
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,720
happened this last flight. Ay the booster did not make

559
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,720
its landing. They canceled it the last second it was

560
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:29,599
on its way. It probably could have done it, but

561
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,079
there was damage to the launch pad it did the

562
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,440
the antenna had been damaged, so there was signal problems,

563
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,599
so they out of abundance of caution, they didn't land.

564
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,839
They just dropped it in the ocean, but it probably

565
00:28:40,839 --> 00:28:43,000
could have landed. But Starship was the breakthrough on this

566
00:28:43,079 --> 00:28:46,119
last flight where they finally ReLit a raptor engine in orbit,

567
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,079
which they'd never done before. There's no way to really

568
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,240
test that. You just have to do it. And it

569
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:55,000
did a precision landing, same trick boy with a camera

570
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,960
and it landed right in front of the boy. We

571
00:28:57,279 --> 00:28:59,759
could see the landing. We also saw like the.

572
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,559
Speaker 1: That's booey for our American listeners, there.

573
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,519
Speaker 2: Are booie if you're not poying correctly.

574
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,839
Speaker 1: Now you pronounce it correctly for a Canadian.

575
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:10,359
Speaker 2: And right away the fact that it was daytime in

576
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,200
that we could see a bunch of things, one of

577
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,440
which was the whole bunch of heat shields that popped

578
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,759
off right at the interface point between the fuel tanks

579
00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:21,079
and the payload bay, which arguably is the weakest part

580
00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:24,160
of the ship. So there was The theory now is

581
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,720
there was enough flex in the kick turn so it's

582
00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:29,640
falling on its belly to slow down, it's ready to fall,

583
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,279
and then when it goes to land it has to

584
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:33,240
fire its engines and pivot to land on its tail,

585
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:36,000
which is insane. Yeah, but that's what it does.

586
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: It's amazing though, but.

587
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: I think there was enough flex in the ship when

588
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,279
that happened that it actually blew all the heat tiles

589
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:43,000
off along that flex line.

590
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:45,319
Speaker 1: So you know, this is not only an amazing feat

591
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:49,079
of engineering, but of imagination. Yeah, you know, somebody had

592
00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:52,039
to imagine that this could be done, and then other

593
00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:54,680
people had to go away and crunch the numbers and

594
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,000
try and find a way to build it. Try to

595
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,240
find a way to build it. Yeah, just the imagination.

596
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: Is off the I mean to make a ship out

597
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,680
of stainless steel instead of out of ultra light aluminum

598
00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:08,160
and so forth. Like, there's a lot of interesting decisions

599
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,960
made here to make a more reusable spacecraft, and there's

600
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,119
still problems that aren't solved. Right. The next lunch supposed

601
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,279
to be in January, and it's pretty much fallen the

602
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:22,079
same flight profile as the last one, so the FAA's

603
00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:24,119
already got permission, they'll probably go ahead. But they are

604
00:30:24,119 --> 00:30:26,359
actually using a larger version of Starship on this next

605
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,799
flight because they've realized they need more space. But one

606
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:33,680
of their next goals, either that flight or the one after,

607
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,759
will be to try and catch Starship too. Wow, that

608
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:40,000
would make a fully reusable system that you got both

609
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:42,920
vehicles back, nothing thrown away, no disposable.

610
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,079
Speaker 1: So that's exciting really.

611
00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's progress, and it's you know, there was

612
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,240
an amazing They're all amazing to watch, every one of them.

613
00:30:51,319 --> 00:30:55,240
But they when it finally is fully working, a lot

614
00:30:55,279 --> 00:30:58,559
of things change. Space flight drops by another order of magnitude.

615
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: So that means that there is going to be more flights,

616
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,200
but also flights for different purposes than we're seeing now. Right, Yeah,

617
00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:08,400
maybe even more space travel tourism.

618
00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:10,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, tourism becomes a lot more feasible. Now you're talking

619
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:14,559
about a ticket to space in the one hundred thousand

620
00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:16,759
dollars range instead of I mean, right now, you can

621
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:19,319
get a crew dragon flight for about twenty five million bucks.

622
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,000
It's one hundred million roughly to fly, so you need

623
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:26,279
four seats so you know, save up. But bab, we

624
00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:28,000
could get it down to around the hundred grand range.

625
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,680
That opens it's a trip of a lifetime for a

626
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:33,839
lot more people, yep, than it is just billionaires. Right. Sure,

627
00:31:34,319 --> 00:31:37,880
That's not the only new rocket the United Launch Alliance,

628
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,640
the guys who were flying the Atlas five in the

629
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,440
Delta four finally flew their Vulcan rocket, which was the

630
00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:46,559
replacement for both. The development for that rocket started back

631
00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:48,640
in twenty fourteen, and it really was intended to be

632
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,039
a replacement for Autlas five because the Atlas five's rocket

633
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:55,920
depended on the Russian RD one eighty engine, and I

634
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,319
don't know if you noticed, but the relationship with the

635
00:31:57,359 --> 00:32:00,400
Russians a little it's a little cold right now, tricky,

636
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,200
a little tricky, so they wanted to move away from that.

637
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,839
So this is an all domestic rocket in the US.

638
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,319
Methane engine the B E four built by Blue Origin,

639
00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:13,440
and it's been literally a decade of development, but their

640
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,640
first flight was in January this year and it was perfect.

641
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,200
The rocket worked flawlessly and no, nothing recoverable yet, so

642
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,799
it was a fully thrown away a rocket, which is hard.

643
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:26,000
They're talking about coming up with strategies to recover the

644
00:32:26,039 --> 00:32:28,880
booster or at least the engines, but nothing's been done

645
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,759
there yet. It had a payload on it, the Peregrin Lander,

646
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:33,119
which is supposed to go to the Moon, which is

647
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,480
very cool for a first flight. Normally for a first

648
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:38,799
flight you fly a billet, a concrete or if you're Elon,

649
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:44,119
you fly a sports car. Yeah all right, that was

650
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,200
so cool. Yeah, I like that, Elon, Can we have

651
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,000
that back?

652
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: That was the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life.

653
00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:52,319
Speaker 2: And I climb my sports car.

654
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: I wish my father was alive to see that. He

655
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,519
would have got a real kick out of it.

656
00:32:56,559 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: But it was you need you need a DeVault payload,

657
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,440
and so Fallulcan actually had a working payload. It was

658
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,119
the Peregrine Lander and it was supposed to land on

659
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,000
the Moon, but the lander had malfunctions, had fuel leak problems,

660
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:08,640
and so it didn't have enough fuel to actually make

661
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,119
the landing. So they did go around the Moon and

662
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,119
then let it cut fly back to Earth and reander.

663
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,839
They had a second flight of Vulcan this year as well,

664
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,359
in October to complete their certifications, and it had a malfunction.

665
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:26,079
One of the solid rocket boosters on the side of

666
00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:30,200
the rocket blew its gnawsele off, which would normally be

667
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,440
a loss of rocket like that should have been a

668
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,319
complete failure, and it wasn't. The control systems off Vulcan

669
00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:39,519
are strong enough that it actually compensated for the loss

670
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:42,640
of thrust from the damaged booster and it made it

671
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,960
to its orbit anyway. Now, it was supposed to be

672
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,640
a certifying flight for national asset flights for spice satellites,

673
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,799
military satellites and things like that, So normally it should

674
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,519
it had to be a perfect flight, and it wasn't.

675
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,319
But on the other hand, it's like, this is almost

676
00:33:57,359 --> 00:34:00,519
better that it had this kind of a failu and

677
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,559
still got to fit to orbit. Like it's astonishing what

678
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,359
they pulled out there. And this is a big, big

679
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,639
rocket there. You know, where the Falcon nine will do

680
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,719
seventeen metro tons to lower thorbit, this is twenty seven

681
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,000
metro tons to lower thorpe. So it's a pretty capable rocket.

682
00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:20,960
It's expensive, and United Launch Alliance has its own problems,

683
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,000
like there's this there's a rumor going around that it

684
00:34:23,079 --> 00:34:27,239
might actually be for sale. This was the collaboration between

685
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,159
Lockheed Martin and Boeing that was formed to operate the

686
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,800
Space Shuttle, and then it took and it got Delta

687
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,000
four in Atlas five, and now it's over to Vulcan.

688
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:39,000
So it's a question of whether it makes sense. Another

689
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,920
thing that Vulcan is supposed to fly but has never

690
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,039
flown is Starliner.

691
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: Okay, Spacelink, Starship, Starliner, star Live, many names all right, Starliner.

692
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:58,960
Back in twenty fourteen when NASA was NASA now commercialized

693
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,679
resopplya the Space day, right, that was crewed. That was

694
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,239
the Cargo Dragon and the Signess vehicles. So instead of

695
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,159
paying cost plus for every flight of supply to the

696
00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:13,039
space station, now they were paying by the kilogram, so

697
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,519
fixed cost flights essentially. And then that incentivizes the company

698
00:35:17,519 --> 00:35:19,039
to get more and more efficient so they can keep

699
00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:22,840
more of that money. And so you had two companies today.

700
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,159
The Signa spacecraft is own by Northrop Grumman and SpaceX

701
00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:28,880
has the Cargo Dragon. They do resupply to the space station.

702
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,760
So in twenty fourteen they say, let's do this for

703
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,800
cruise now, and we don't have the space Shuttle anymore.

704
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: We have it for a few years. They intended to

705
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,239
have this ready by twenty eleven when they last shuttle

706
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,719
aanded and they didn't. But let's go a flat rate

707
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,400
to fly cruise into space. And so they put out

708
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,719
two companies one Boeing one and SpaceX. Now the time,

709
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,599
SpaceX is still the new guys, right, So they got

710
00:35:51,639 --> 00:35:54,280
a deal for two point six billion dollars to develop

711
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,800
and fly crew Dragon for six flights to the space station,

712
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,880
and Boeing at the same time got same kind of deal,

713
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,519
but it builled Starliner and fly six flies to space station.

714
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:07,320
But they got four point two billion. They got almost

715
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,800
double the money. Wow. But the point was they were

716
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,119
the conservative choice, right, like, this was going to be

717
00:36:14,159 --> 00:36:17,360
the safe way to get cruise back into space halfway

718
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,199
up the dar blew off of way worse. So there's

719
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,360
both vehicles supposed to be operational twenty nineteen. SpaceX was

720
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,320
a little bit late, but Starship or a star Liner

721
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,599
far later. Their first unmanned test flight was in twenty nineteen.

722
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,039
It was a partial failure, is the way they phrased it.

723
00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:40,719
You're talking about Starliner Starliner. Yes, it got to orbit,

724
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,000
but it got to orbit so badly it couldn't make

725
00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:44,960
it to the space station. I mean it's really a

726
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,480
failure because they NASA ordered the flight reflown and it

727
00:36:48,519 --> 00:36:52,320
was mostly software problems at the time that caused the

728
00:36:53,079 --> 00:36:55,960
thrusters to misfire, burn off too much fuel, and so

729
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,519
I know it was written in JavaScript something or to

730
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,599
the lowest bidder whenever language it was in. So then

731
00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:06,199
they they it took them two years to get ready

732
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:08,679
for the next test flight in twenty twenty one, but

733
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,119
that didn't work out. That was in March of twenty one,

734
00:37:11,199 --> 00:37:13,960
so they deleted till April, then Hey deleted August. Then

735
00:37:14,159 --> 00:37:17,119
they scrubbed it for the year, and it wasn't until

736
00:37:17,159 --> 00:37:19,079
May of twenty two they tried to fly again, and

737
00:37:19,119 --> 00:37:22,000
that time again unmanned. They made it to the space

738
00:37:22,039 --> 00:37:24,239
station with a small payload. They had about two hundred

739
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,280
and fifty kiloads. I think we talked about this last

740
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,039
year too. Yeah, and then they actually took the same

741
00:37:29,039 --> 00:37:31,079
a ount of spplies back down. So this year was

742
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:33,599
the next flight. So that one was that last on

743
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,920
Man one was in twenty two. So this year they

744
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,280
finally flew a test crew. This is the same thing

745
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,519
that's the crew Dragon did. But in June they flew

746
00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:45,159
Canita Williams and Butch Wilmore up to the space station successfully,

747
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,280
but they had problems on the way. They had helium

748
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,480
leaks in the pressurization system, they had more thruster issues,

749
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:55,400
and so they're still there. They are still there. Yeah,

750
00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:58,639
Cedi and Butcher's supposed to spend eight days and they

751
00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:01,920
delayed departure while they were studying the problem. Now this

752
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,599
is a legit thing. Most of the issues were in

753
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:07,880
the trunk portion of Starliner, which is the part thrown away,

754
00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:11,320
So there was no way. The problems aren't necessarily in

755
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,000
the star Liner itself but in the trunk, and so

756
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:14,920
they wanted to actually do as much testing as can,

757
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,800
but as they couldn't properly characterized all the problems, eventually

758
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:19,840
NASA says, now you.

759
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 3: Can't fly astronauts back on them.

760
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not worth their risk.

761
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: So what's interesting about those two is that their attitude

762
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:31,760
is like, this is great. We get to do more science,

763
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,519
We get to hang out with these people.

764
00:38:33,599 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: They get to hang out in the space, right, like.

765
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 1: You get to hang out in space. This is not

766
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:38,599
a problem for them.

767
00:38:38,639 --> 00:38:41,039
Speaker 2: These guys had been to the space station before, right,

768
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:42,719
They knew what they were doing, and they never expected

769
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,519
to fly again. They figured these days were the last

770
00:38:44,519 --> 00:38:45,599
time they were ever going to go in space in

771
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:48,159
their lives. They are having the time of their lives.

772
00:38:48,199 --> 00:38:50,360
They are astronauts are crazy.

773
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: Well, you know, their bones are atrophying and everything, but

774
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:54,079
that doesn't matter.

775
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 2: But this is our last flight in space anyway, right,

776
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,320
But this is the crazier part. So in September, when

777
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,440
they decide, okay, we going to bring Starliner back empty.

778
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,639
The thing is that every astronaut on the space station

779
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,760
has to have an evacuation vehicle. They had if there

780
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,119
was a you know, if they had lost pressure or something,

781
00:39:10,159 --> 00:39:12,159
they had to evacuate. How these guys are going to

782
00:39:12,199 --> 00:39:17,159
get off? And so the initial plan. But what they

783
00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:20,440
did was they modified the Crew Dragon nine mission to

784
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,519
actually only fly with two people, so they could bring

785
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:24,000
the two down, but they couldn't bring it up there

786
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,679
while Starliner was still there. So for two weeks. The

787
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,119
solution for their departure was to strap themselves to the

788
00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:37,320
cargo palette of Crew Dragon eight. The cargo palette, yes,

789
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:40,920
so crew Dragons are set up to carry four, they

790
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,000
could carry more. They have a cargo palete area under

791
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,599
the seats that carries more than enough weight. So literally

792
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:49,840
their goal if there was an emergency evacuation those two

793
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,280
weeks is they would go into Crew Dragon eight, strap

794
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,360
themselves to the cargo pilot, and hope for the best.

795
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

796
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,119
Speaker 2: Anyway, a couple of weeks later later in September, Crew

797
00:40:00,199 --> 00:40:02,480
Dragon nine comes up with only two astronauts on it,

798
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,639
and that's the two seats for them, and they're still there.

799
00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:08,639
They're supposed to return in March, which will be a

800
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,360
ten month stay for Butchercineta and obviously their last ones.

801
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: And I fought Elon offered to send a rescue to that.

802
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,199
Speaker 2: He did, And that's effectively what they did by taking

803
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:20,440
the two crew members off of Crew nine, which are

804
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,199
supposed to fly with four. That's the solution. Here's the

805
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:30,159
interesting situation for Starliner now it's twenty twenty four, presuming

806
00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:33,199
next year, in twenty twenty five, they actually get operational

807
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,320
and can start flying missions, which is not true. It's

808
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,440
probably going to be longer than that. They can't complete

809
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,280
their contract. Their deal for four point two billion included

810
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,199
six flights to the station, and you only get one

811
00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:46,159
a year, and the station only lasts till twenty thirty,

812
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,880
so they get up a run in twenty twenty five.

813
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,360
They can't fly enough flights, So.

814
00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:52,679
Speaker 1: Do they have to give some money back.

815
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 2: They might have to give some money back or they're

816
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,320
not going to be paid all of that money in

817
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,679
the first place. But this has been such a debacle

818
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,599
for Boeing. They've kicked in a couple billion of their

819
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:01,679
own cash already.

820
00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: Well, it's not the only problem Boeing has had in

821
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:04,880
the last year.

822
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,599
Speaker 2: It is symptomatic of the way Boeing has been for

823
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:09,639
a while with a bunch of things.

824
00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 3: No tools about it all, right.

825
00:41:13,679 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: Can wrap up the rocket conversation with the failures this year.

826
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,480
You know, there was a whole lot of successful flights.

827
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,519
Most of them are not particularly interesting. One of them,

828
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,280
mostly me is that actually one of the Falcon nine flights,

829
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,239
the Starling flight, failed. It had a leak in the

830
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:33,159
second stage engine enough that it didn't get to full orbit.

831
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,440
They deployed the Starlink satellites anyway, but for the most

832
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,320
part they all burned up. They just didn't make it up.

833
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,480
The other interesting failure was the Japanese space program has

834
00:41:43,519 --> 00:41:46,679
a new rocket called Kiros. I'm probably mispronouncing that name.

835
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,440
They had their first flight in March. It exploded five

836
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,320
seconds after launch, and then they tried again in December

837
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,480
and it flew a little bit longer than tumble out

838
00:41:56,519 --> 00:41:58,880
of control and exploded as well. So just a reminder,

839
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:07,039
space flight is hard, right, Yes, other crewed flights besides,

840
00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:11,119
you had you had Crew Dragon eight in note in March,

841
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,639
which was the one that was going to be the

842
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,880
temporary rescue vehicle. Crew nine. Dragon nine was in September.

843
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,440
That's the one that's actually going to bring them back.

844
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,559
Those are the crews for the space station. The only

845
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:24,079
way to get there there was an axios mission to

846
00:42:24,199 --> 00:42:27,960
the ISS, which is a tourist flight to the space

847
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,519
station in January that came back down in February. They're

848
00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:32,719
only up there for a couple of weeks. And then

849
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,280
one more crew flight and that was Polaris Dawn. So

850
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,599
this is Jared Isaacman and Jared Eisaman had the Inspiration

851
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,480
four flight a couple of years ago, which was the

852
00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:47,239
first commercial tourist flight ever where he flew four of

853
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,679
them went out. And Jared is this billionaire that's been

854
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,719
facilitating these and he had another flight. This is Polaristan

855
00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:56,880
and Polaristan is where he did a spacewalk, two of them.

856
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,880
Actually I thought that was Richard Branson. Richard Branson's got

857
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:02,679
urging galactic and they only do suborbital flights.

858
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: But I thought he brought some friends up into space.

859
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,519
Speaker 2: He did on the spaceship too, but they can only

860
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:11,639
do They're only up for two minutes, right, They don't

861
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:14,199
get up to orbit. They get above the carbon line,

862
00:43:14,199 --> 00:43:16,840
but they can't they don't have orbital capabilities. But at

863
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,599
Jared Isaacman is a billionaire. He made his money in

864
00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:23,440
a company called Shift four, which is a payment processing company.

865
00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:26,400
His story is pretty interesting, like he was sixteen years

866
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,239
old when he formed the company in nineteen ninety nine

867
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,000
and twenty years later listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

868
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,199
Along the way, he formed a company called DrAk And International,

869
00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:39,280
where he owns a collection of fighter jets and he

870
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,559
provides adversary training for air forces. So remarkable guy and

871
00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:47,559
now is currently proposed by the Trump administration to be

872
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:48,840
the new NASA administrator.

873
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:49,280
Speaker 1: Wow.

874
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: But he's also done a spacewalk right by the way,

875
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,159
when POLARISTAM was doing that in September, we broke the

876
00:43:56,199 --> 00:43:57,960
record for the most number of people in orbit.

877
00:43:58,039 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: Wow.

878
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,119
Speaker 2: There were the four people at Roma, there were three

879
00:44:01,159 --> 00:44:04,079
people in the Chinese Space station, and there were twelve

880
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:09,320
on ISS, including Butch and the Insignia. Although shortly after

881
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,840
that the next Soyuz came up and took three back down.

882
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,920
So yeah. Jared Eisiman also proposed to do a mission

883
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,960
to Hubble, to do a servicing mission on Hubble.

884
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: Okay, now, I thought Hubble was completely out of commission.

885
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:26,159
Speaker 2: Nope, Hubble's working. It's just crippled, right. It's running out.

886
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,880
Its pointing systems are starting to wear out. The gyroscopes

887
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,239
are wearing out, and so he proposed to replace those

888
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,119
gyroscopes to do a mission. They win. The last shuttle

889
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,840
left Hubble. They put a docking mount on it. It's

890
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,960
not quite a standard because it was before the standard

891
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,760
was fully established, but that was fixable. And so they

892
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,679
were playing with the idea of is there a way

893
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,599
to send a crew dragon up there and connect up

894
00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:58,159
and maybe swap the gyroscopes out and NASA has NASA

895
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,920
turned that down. They considered the risks too high. It's

896
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,159
a completely experimental mission. And Hubble is still usable, admittedly

897
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:08,559
in a reduced state, and they're running out of money

898
00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:12,039
to fund Hubble anyway, I could cost money to keep

899
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:14,760
the crews working on it and so forth. And the

900
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,719
Nancy Roman Space Telescope is about to go up and

901
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,880
it will be better than Hubble in every respect. And

902
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,840
we have JWST already.

903
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,599
Speaker 1: So am it? What's this new one? Nancy?

904
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 2: Who the Nancy Roman Space Telescope? So, and it was

905
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,199
originally called w first it's in more of as a

906
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,000
low infrared or high infrared satellite, but it'll take opticals

907
00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:34,360
as well.

908
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:35,599
Speaker 1: How's it compared to JWT.

909
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 2: JWST is a different creature. JWST is in which directions.

910
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,079
It's in the deep infrared rather than in the optical range.

911
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,760
And it's meant to see very very far away in

912
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,559
a narrow field of space, where the w first or

913
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:50,599
the Rancy Roman is designed to have a much wider

914
00:45:50,599 --> 00:45:53,239
field to see much more than Hubble can. Okay, it's

915
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,320
a lot more advanced technology. Ruble's very old, right, I

916
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,880
mean it's been around since the eighties for crying out Loud. Oh,

917
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:02,800
arguably when they lose control of it, they'll leave it

918
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,480
in that orbit. Like you know, starship could go pick Hubble.

919
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 1: Up, drag it back home.

920
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,639
Speaker 2: Well, it would fit inside of the of the payload bay.

921
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,599
That's nuts, Yeah, And I mean that would be the

922
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:18,119
great outcome was that thing should be in the Smithsonian

923
00:46:18,159 --> 00:46:19,079
for Crying Out Loud.

924
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely hanging up right next to the Spirit of Saint.

925
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 2: Louis Darren Wright. And also at that point it will

926
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,920
have been like thirty or forty years in space. But

927
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,719
it's in a high enough orbit it'll stay up there

928
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,360
for a long long time, so it's it's worth retrieving.

929
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,519
It's just not any But the interesting thing now is

930
00:46:35,679 --> 00:46:37,840
the guy who proposed the mission and was turned down

931
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:41,960
maybe the next NaSTA administrator. So who knows what happens

932
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:42,199
with that?

933
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: Who knows?

934
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:47,599
Speaker 2: Right, I haven't talked about Blue Origin yet, sure, normally

935
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:49,800
I don't talk about rockets that haven't flown, but they

936
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,599
look like they're really really close. Finally, after all these years,

937
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,199
you know, they've been talking. He's you know, Jeff Bezos

938
00:46:58,199 --> 00:47:01,519
has never flown anybody into He's just flown a whole

939
00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:04,599
bunch of New Shepherd missions, which are our suborbital flights.

940
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:06,360
They get above the carbon line, but they don't stand over.

941
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,079
They don't go fast enough. The rocket's tiny comparison, but

942
00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:13,039
he's been working on this six meter rocket, so not

943
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:17,280
as big as Starship, but big with a landable first stage.

944
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:22,880
That's the proposal at a disposable upper stage. And they

945
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,880
kept they were very secret for many, many years, but

946
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,519
they now today when we're recording this, have our rocket

947
00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:31,360
on the pad, a fully assembled new glenn Is at

948
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,320
Kennedy Space Center, and so far they've done some tanking tests,

949
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,920
but they haven't done a static fire yet. The FAA

950
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,159
has not published a launch window for it yet, so

951
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:42,760
we don't know if they don't have permission yet or

952
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,480
they just don't want to publish exactly when they're going

953
00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:46,960
to fly. But generally by the point by the time

954
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,840
you're doing tanking tests, you're about ready to fly. So

955
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,599
they may fly before the end of the year, it

956
00:47:52,599 --> 00:47:55,800
may not. It's very close. The other vehicle it's really

957
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,440
close to flying now is one called dream Chaser. This

958
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:04,559
is Sierra Space. This was another one of the competitors

959
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:07,119
for the commercial resupply of the Space station, and it's

960
00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:11,159
a little space plane, and they finally have a completed

961
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,519
vehicle that's going through testing. The first flight should be

962
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:18,079
in May of twenty twenty five, and they could win

963
00:48:18,119 --> 00:48:20,559
a contract to actually do resupply to the space station.

964
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,639
Plus they can recover payloads better than SpaceX Camp. The

965
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,679
cargo Dragon is a ballistic capsule, so their landing's fairly

966
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,119
rough and it lands in the ocean, so it's there

967
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:35,719
for a while before they can pull it out and

968
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,239
do all the things where Dream Chaser actually lands like

969
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,880
an airplane, so you could put it down on a

970
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,960
runway much gentler, less g loads on it and get

971
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:45,880
supplies out of it. So there's a case for this thing.

972
00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:48,360
They'd like to build a crew one, but who knows

973
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,000
when that's ever going to happen. Right now, the testing

974
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:53,360
shows that it's a cargo space plane that should last

975
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,800
at least fifteen missions, so fairly reusable. And they've got

976
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,400
a second one under construction. Now they're calling Reverence cool.

977
00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:04,519
All right, should we take a break and then we'll

978
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:05,239
talk about the moon.

979
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a quick break and we'll be right

980
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:11,119
back with more space geeking out with Richard Campbell after

981
00:49:11,119 --> 00:49:15,280
these very important messages, be right back. Did you know

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995
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It's dot NetRocks the geek Out edition Space geek Out

996
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:28,039
twenty twenty four. You know you're waiting for him, right absolutely?

997
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 2: Second half. I did put out any asks for questions.

998
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,719
Folks said things I should address, and Jay responded when

999
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,280
he asked how realistic is the twenty twenty six schedule

1000
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,519
to get back to the Moon? And my answer to

1001
00:50:41,519 --> 00:50:44,400
that is not realistic at all.

1002
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,079
Speaker 1: I just want to know, like, of all the things

1003
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:50,599
to do in space, why go back to somewhere where

1004
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:52,159
we have been already and know a.

1005
00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:55,079
Speaker 2: Lot about We only know a little bit about about

1006
00:50:55,079 --> 00:50:58,119
the Moon, But don't we know enough? Nope, there's lots

1007
00:50:58,159 --> 00:51:02,079
more to know. The main thing is we I mean,

1008
00:51:02,199 --> 00:51:06,320
arguably the missions in the late sixties early seventies, which

1009
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,440
were military missions, even if they wrapped them in a

1010
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,239
science wrapper, like eleven of the twelve people that landed

1011
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,480
on the Moon were test pilots, one was a geologist,

1012
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,840
Jack Schmidt, right, the only scientist to ever set foot

1013
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,239
on the Moon, and they all landed roughly all on

1014
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,480
the near side of the Moon, and all roughly equatorial.

1015
00:51:26,639 --> 00:51:28,800
Because of the limitations of the vehicle. The vehicle was

1016
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,360
very dangerous. The Apollo system had many failure modes that

1017
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,079
were not survival, so continuing those flights after they'd accomplished

1018
00:51:35,079 --> 00:51:38,320
their goal was questionable. So the reason to go back

1019
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,679
to the Moon now is A, we can do it

1020
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,559
much shaper. B. There's a lot of research to be done,

1021
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,400
and we've proven pretty categorically that there's water ice in

1022
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,079
shaded areas on the poles, and that sets us up

1023
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:52,119
for making a lot less expensive to be on the Moon.

1024
00:51:53,079 --> 00:51:55,800
So back in twenty seventeen, I did a geek out

1025
00:51:56,079 --> 00:51:58,280
about building a based on the Moon based on the

1026
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,320
ease of papers and so forth, which NASA liked enough

1027
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:02,599
that they asked me to come and speak to them

1028
00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:04,039
about their own stuff, which is weird.

1029
00:52:04,119 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was truly mind blowing.

1030
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,199
Speaker 2: But the point was what had been proposed and which

1031
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,880
still makes sense, is equivalent of like Antarctic style missions,

1032
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,719
but on the Moon, to put scientists on for a period.

1033
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,800
The current periods like forty two days at a time,

1034
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,360
So that's a day cycle, night cycle, day cycle on

1035
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,880
the Moon to do experiments on the surface, and there's

1036
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,119
a bunch of interesting things to do. Obviously, the water

1037
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:31,239
ice is number one. If you can get water ice.

1038
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: You said forty two days or forty two hours, forty

1039
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,559
two days a day cycle, a night cycle, in a

1040
00:52:36,639 --> 00:52:37,119
day cycle.

1041
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 2: So if you're standing on the equator of the Moon,

1042
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,079
you will have fourteen earth days of sunlight on you

1043
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,960
and because of how it rotatescause of how it rotates, yeah, yeah,

1044
00:52:50,639 --> 00:52:52,559
and so you had alloys up the end up with

1045
00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:55,119
forty two days. So you you know, you're there long

1046
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,400
enough to really do a lot of experimentation, right, you

1047
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,360
know the long again. We only ever had one scientist

1048
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,360
on the moon, jash Smitt. He had three six hour

1049
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,480
shifts on the moon. He found more things, more important

1050
00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:09,519
things on the Moon than the rest of them. Com mind,

1051
00:53:10,079 --> 00:53:12,639
because he's actually a scientist. Like what would happen if

1052
00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:15,679
you allowed scientists to actually work in an extended period?

1053
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 1: And so you certainly don't want to be on the

1054
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,519
dark side or in the dark at all, because one

1055
00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:23,280
it's darker than dark is dark.

1056
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 2: It's pretty damn dark.

1057
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 1: And number two, it's actually freezing.

1058
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 2: It's very cold, very very cold. But the suits will

1059
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,480
protect you. The intent is you would do a full

1060
00:53:33,559 --> 00:53:34,599
dark cycle too.

1061
00:53:34,639 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: Wow, I can't imagine.

1062
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,559
Speaker 2: That would only be fourteen earth days in the darkness, right,

1063
00:53:39,679 --> 00:53:42,280
Like you ask a guy who's up in long ear

1064
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,400
bin in this falbarred islands, they do four months of.

1065
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: Dark, right, But I mean there is ambient light. There

1066
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,719
is no ambient light on the space side.

1067
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,079
Speaker 2: Oh, there's absolutely ambient light. There's still stars.

1068
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:55,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose.

1069
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 2: Right, but in fact you'll get you out. And by

1070
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,199
the way, no astronaut is really ever seen them from

1071
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:02,760
the surface of the Moon because they were only there

1072
00:54:03,119 --> 00:54:04,800
for three days in daylight the whole time.

1073
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I imagine the stars must look amazing.

1074
00:54:08,119 --> 00:54:11,159
Speaker 2: There must be astonishing, without a doubt. What you won't

1075
00:54:11,159 --> 00:54:13,519
see in the sky would be, you know, the.

1076
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: Moon, the moon. You might see the Earth.

1077
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 2: But you will see the Earth and it will be

1078
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:21,559
like and it reflects more light than the than the

1079
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:23,320
Moon does, so you'll probably get quite a bit of

1080
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,719
light from that. But it's certainly part of the whole experience.

1081
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:29,480
So twenty twenty four, there was a bunch of missions

1082
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,880
in the Moon. I mentioned one of them already, the

1083
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,440
Percan mission in January, which didn't make it to the Moon.

1084
00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:40,000
Then the Japanese, also in January, landed the first Japanese

1085
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,880
spacecraft the Moon. Ever, it's called Slim. It didn't land well.

1086
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:48,360
They dropped a couple of little rovers and then as

1087
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,360
they went to land it tipped over on its side,

1088
00:54:51,199 --> 00:54:53,719
solar panels down, so it only lasted for a few hours.

1089
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: Hey for efvert.

1090
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,119
Speaker 2: Those little rovers were able to take pictures and show

1091
00:54:57,159 --> 00:54:59,639
that one of the engine nozzles was missing, so that's

1092
00:54:59,679 --> 00:55:02,320
probably why it tipped over. It blew an engine.

1093
00:55:02,039 --> 00:55:03,199
Speaker 3: Nozzle lot, which is unfortunate.

1094
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: Well, I fully expect that the Japanese will be doing

1095
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:10,840
amazing things on the Moon.

1096
00:55:11,079 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: I imagine, yeah, they'll keep trying. I mean again, it

1097
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,000
worked for a while, and their little rovers worked great.

1098
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,400
Twenty in February, Nova Sea landed on the South Pole,

1099
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:22,400
one of the first few. It was line of South Pole.

1100
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,840
The Indians got their first. It landed badly too. It

1101
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,079
had a little bit too much lateral coming down and

1102
00:55:28,119 --> 00:55:31,280
it snapped a leg and tipped over. Although in that case,

1103
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,760
it landed on its side solar panels up, so we

1104
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,239
still have able to do a bunch of missions successful.

1105
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,159
Who had the most success on the Moon. In twenty

1106
00:55:39,199 --> 00:55:44,159
twenty four China. China launched a pair of communication satellites

1107
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:47,039
to add to their existing communication satellite that covers the

1108
00:55:47,079 --> 00:55:48,920
far side of the Moon because they have a series

1109
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:50,800
of additional missions on the far side of the moon,

1110
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,440
Changes six, seven, and eight. And then they flew Chang

1111
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,360
E six which landed on the Apollo basin which is

1112
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,079
on the far side of the Moon. And not only landed,

1113
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,920
this was a talk about a complicated spacecraft. So this

1114
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:08,199
had an orbiter, a lander with a rover, and an

1115
00:56:08,159 --> 00:56:12,920
ascent stage four pieces wow. And within a couple of

1116
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,079
days of landing they picked up samples from the lunar

1117
00:56:16,119 --> 00:56:18,159
surface and put it in the ascent stage, which then

1118
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:22,079
went back up into space, connected up with that orbiter

1119
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,360
and flew back to Earth and re entered successfully re

1120
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:29,440
entered a capsule successfully into the Mongolian desert, so they

1121
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,840
have the first new samples from the Moon since the seventies,

1122
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,280
God bless them. And then the arbiter they changed its

1123
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,159
orbit into a stable Orbits is going to be there

1124
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:42,280
for forever. So huge accomplishments on the Moon for China

1125
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,199
so far, and they're on they've got a plan to

1126
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,199
put humans on the Moon as well, which means we

1127
00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:53,559
should probably talk about the NASA Moon missions.

1128
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 1: Let's do it.

1129
00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 2: That's the Artemis missions, right arm being the sister to

1130
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,639
Apollo yep, if you catch the meeting. So there's been

1131
00:57:01,679 --> 00:57:03,840
one Artimist flight so far, was in November twenty two.

1132
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,239
It was unmanned where they flew in Oryan capsule to

1133
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,719
the Moon and they did a bunch of gravitational tricks there,

1134
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,239
things they'd never done before. As much as it looks

1135
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,840
like a basic mission, they did advance the science. They

1136
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,079
validated a bunch of order models and so forth. The

1137
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:21,159
second flight, Artemist two, is supposed to be the first

1138
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:23,760
man flight. It's a replay of Apollo eight. They're just

1139
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:25,760
going to fly around the Moon and back again, lots

1140
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,480
of systems to validate. Four people supposed to be on that,

1141
00:57:28,519 --> 00:57:32,920
including one Canadian. Was originally planned for twenty twenty three,

1142
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,199
and then they bumped out the twenty twenty four which

1143
00:57:35,199 --> 00:57:37,559
would have been this year, and then in September twenty four,

1144
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:41,199
they said no sooner than September twenty twenty five, and

1145
00:57:41,239 --> 00:57:43,000
then a month later said, as she'll be April of

1146
00:57:43,039 --> 00:57:46,639
twenty twenty six. One of the problems they had and

1147
00:57:46,719 --> 00:57:49,440
been reviewing for a while was that the heat shield

1148
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:53,000
on Artist one, which functioned and made it back on

1149
00:57:53,039 --> 00:57:55,639
the surface, had a lot more damage on it than expected.

1150
00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:58,239
It had big chunks blown out of it, actually, and

1151
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,000
it's taken them a long time to come to this conclusion,

1152
00:58:00,159 --> 00:58:03,400
but they finally figured out that it was the skip effect.

1153
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:06,599
So this vehicle. The problem here is that when you

1154
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:09,159
fly back from the Earth to the Moon the Moon,

1155
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,079
the Earth grabs you and accelerates you. So you leave

1156
00:58:13,239 --> 00:58:16,119
the Earth going towards the Moon and maybe twenty seven

1157
00:58:16,159 --> 00:58:18,880
twenty eight thousand miles per hour just enough to get there,

1158
00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:21,000
and you're slowing down the whole time you get there.

1159
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,159
But just before you would start falling back to Earth,

1160
00:58:23,199 --> 00:58:25,039
the Moon grabs you and you start to accelerate towards

1161
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:27,480
the Moon. But when you're flying back from the Moon

1162
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:29,239
to the Earth, it doesn't take a lot of thrust

1163
00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:31,519
to leave the Moon, so you're only moving about three

1164
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:35,599
thousand miles an hour, but as you fall towards the Earth,

1165
00:58:35,639 --> 00:58:38,159
you start accelerating and accelerating, and by the time you

1166
00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:43,159
get back to the Earth you're moving about forty thousand Yeah,

1167
00:58:43,199 --> 00:58:45,840
this is the problem, right, It's like you're going. This

1168
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,920
is why we've never ever put anything back into orbit

1169
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,079
around the Earth from the Moon. All we've done is

1170
00:58:51,119 --> 00:58:53,480
do direct re entry. But you go in so fast.

1171
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:55,440
If you came in too steeply, you'd just burn up.

1172
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:57,920
And so one of the things they did for the

1173
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,159
apoll Miisians and the experiment and they were doing, or

1174
00:59:00,199 --> 00:59:02,760
they first rhyme mission, is that it is skip re entry.

1175
00:59:03,159 --> 00:59:05,440
So they actually go into the atmosphere the Earth to

1176
00:59:05,559 --> 00:59:09,480
accelerate and then come back out of the atmosphere, let

1177
00:59:09,519 --> 00:59:11,719
the heat shield cool down, and now they've slowed down

1178
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,199
enough that they fall back in again.

1179
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,679
Speaker 1: That makes sense, bouncing sield atmosphere before.

1180
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 2: You effect on it, but not too many. And I

1181
00:59:18,519 --> 00:59:20,360
want to make it so vigorous as like a boying.

1182
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,599
It's not that kind of bounce. It's a skim in

1183
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:24,480
to slow down and then cool.

1184
00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:26,159
Speaker 1: It's like skipping stones on the walls.

1185
00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 2: The problem here is then the heat shield on Theryon's

1186
00:59:30,039 --> 00:59:32,400
much larger than the Apollo capsule. It's a much bigger vehicle,

1187
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,559
and it's new material, and it appears that the cooling

1188
00:59:36,639 --> 00:59:41,519
of the material from that skip created bubbles that then

1189
00:59:41,519 --> 00:59:44,079
when they heat it back up again, they burst and

1190
00:59:44,199 --> 00:59:46,679
blue chunks out of the heat shield. Oh, so the

1191
00:59:46,719 --> 00:59:49,199
heat shield needs to be revised. It's probably the pacing

1192
00:59:49,239 --> 00:59:52,920
item now and they but they feel like it probably

1193
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,159
would have worked anyway. But yeah, they're definitely going to

1194
00:59:55,199 --> 00:59:56,760
correct it, and that's why they pushed out to April

1195
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,000
twenty six. Okay, and then that leaves us with Artemis three,

1196
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,400
which is supposed to be the return landing on the Moon,

1197
01:00:03,639 --> 01:00:06,440
currently scheduled for September twenty twenty six. So back to

1198
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:10,119
Jay's question, how realistic is twenty twenty six, Well, considering

1199
01:00:10,159 --> 01:00:14,039
they're going to do the the two flight in twenty

1200
01:00:14,039 --> 01:00:15,719
twenty six, there's no way they're going to land on

1201
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,679
the Moon in twenty twenty six. The lander's not ready.

1202
01:00:18,719 --> 01:00:21,599
That's a modified version of Starship And maybe'll we run

1203
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:24,920
anyway twenty six, Probably not. These are all unmanned flights, right, No,

1204
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,480
these will be manned, will be manned, and Artemist three

1205
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,320
will be manned, No kidding, Yeah, an Armist three was

1206
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,519
originally going to be a Lunar Gateway mission. The original

1207
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:35,000
proposal was that they build a space station in arbit

1208
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:37,320
around the Moon. There was a bunch of reasons why

1209
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:38,159
that was a good idea.

1210
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,039
Speaker 1: The Chinese missions weren't manned, though, were they.

1211
01:00:41,199 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 2: Nope, nobody else is. Nobody's falling back to the Moon yet. Okay, theory,

1212
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,400
the first time we're going to get anywhere near the

1213
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,480
Moon again will be in twenty six with Artemis two.

1214
01:00:48,519 --> 01:00:50,440
In theory, I don't know if it's actually gonna happen.

1215
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:51,679
It's been delayed a bunch.

1216
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,719
Speaker 1: So off the top of your head, what are the

1217
01:00:53,719 --> 01:00:57,239
countries that have had manned landings on the Moon.

1218
01:00:57,239 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: Well, there's only one, the only the US has been.

1219
01:00:59,280 --> 01:00:59,599
Speaker 3: To the Moon.

1220
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:01,559
Speaker 1: I thought, I thought the Russians were too.

1221
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 2: Russians wanted to, but they never got there. Their moon

1222
01:01:04,039 --> 01:01:06,719
rocket may never guid into orbit. They only had four

1223
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:08,880
attempts with the end one and they all exploded. And

1224
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,800
then they stopped because the Americans already already done it.

1225
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,599
Huh okay, so yeah that's it then, And the Russians,

1226
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:18,599
you know, are kind of out of money right now,

1227
01:01:18,599 --> 01:01:22,280
they've been fighting an unnecessary war of their own making

1228
01:01:23,559 --> 01:01:26,719
that has debilitated their economy.

1229
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,559
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's sad. It's sad. And now they're wasting,

1230
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,159
not wasting, but they are wasting North Korean troops. They're

1231
01:01:34,199 --> 01:01:38,400
just throwing them in and busting them out bodies.

1232
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 2: Just it's horrible, totally unnecesary when you could be working

1233
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,639
on something interesting like actually going to the moon. But

1234
01:01:43,679 --> 01:01:45,880
the Chinese are all in, They're working hard to get

1235
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,559
to the moon. The big thing about these artemist flights

1236
01:01:48,599 --> 01:01:50,840
is it's a space launch system. Right. This is We've

1237
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,159
talked about this on many geek outs. The space launch

1238
01:01:53,199 --> 01:01:58,719
system is basically modified Space Shuttle parts. Lately, I've been

1239
01:01:58,719 --> 01:02:00,760
saying this would be a really cool rocketed in nineteen

1240
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,639
ninety nine, but in twenty twenty four, it's really archaic.

1241
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,280
It's also catastrophically expensive.

1242
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:08,679
Speaker 1: So why are they doing it?

1243
01:02:08,719 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 2: What current calculation is two and a half billion dollars

1244
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:12,760
of flight?

1245
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: Why are they doing it so seriously when you have

1246
01:02:15,079 --> 01:02:20,079
SpaceX out there that clearly has is cost effective and tirable.

1247
01:02:20,199 --> 01:02:23,639
Speaker 2: Well, now we get into you know the reality of NASA,

1248
01:02:23,679 --> 01:02:26,760
which is NASA as a government agency and Congress holds

1249
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:27,440
their purse strings.

1250
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it needs to exist because of all the

1251
01:02:29,519 --> 01:02:30,800
people that work there.

1252
01:02:30,599 --> 01:02:34,039
Speaker 2: Right well, and yeah, the reality is even NASA didn't

1253
01:02:34,039 --> 01:02:38,519
want SLS, but the Congress did you know, NASA cleverly

1254
01:02:40,199 --> 01:02:42,400
to keep the Space Shuttle flying even with all the

1255
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,599
problems with special had made sure that every state in

1256
01:02:44,639 --> 01:02:47,920
the Union did something related to Space Shuttle, which means

1257
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,800
they had all these Congress people who cared about NASA.

1258
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,000
And when the Space Shuttle had to end, and it

1259
01:02:54,039 --> 01:02:56,360
did make sense to end it, we had serious problems

1260
01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:00,320
that was going to kill more people, they did want

1261
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,079
to lose those jobs, and so Congress continued to fund

1262
01:03:03,519 --> 01:03:06,679
an alternative to Shuttle using those technologies. The big requirement

1263
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,719
was you shuttle technologies so that all of those workers

1264
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,119
in all of those states would keep working. But it

1265
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:17,840
makes it really expensive, and they're only barely funded it efficient, right,

1266
01:03:18,039 --> 01:03:20,039
They only funded it enough to keep the people working.

1267
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:23,440
It was almost an accident. They actually succeeded in building

1268
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,960
a vehicle, but it keeps going on, right, because they

1269
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,480
don't have enough funding to quickly build a mobile launcher.

1270
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,440
They've tripled the budget on the mobile launcher. That's not

1271
01:03:32,519 --> 01:03:34,559
the procket. This is the thing that holds a rocket,

1272
01:03:35,039 --> 01:03:38,039
which current expectation is a billion one point eight billion

1273
01:03:38,039 --> 01:03:40,480
to build. To finish the mobile launcher, it's supposed to

1274
01:03:40,519 --> 01:03:42,360
be a few hundred million. It's still too much, but

1275
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,800
it's just incredibly inefficient, and you're right. With Starship coming up,

1276
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,639
it's becoming sillier and sillier. But it's not that easy

1277
01:03:50,679 --> 01:03:52,880
to cancel. Like my concern with a guy like Jared

1278
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:57,280
Eisenman being the administrator is he's a tech billionaire. He

1279
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,920
made his money being at the top of a company

1280
01:04:00,039 --> 01:04:04,320
you had complete control over, and NASA is not that. Right.

1281
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:09,360
You have to negotiate with Congress for your budget, right,

1282
01:04:09,559 --> 01:04:11,760
you have to work out that relationship. And NASA has

1283
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,920
never been able to cancel us the less themselves. Every

1284
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,400
time they tried, the Congress put it back in the budget.

1285
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,079
So how do you change that? That's a very difficult thing.

1286
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,519
Now you can make fun of NASA for the tactic

1287
01:04:24,559 --> 01:04:26,639
around the Space Shuttle, but it's also how the station

1288
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,960
got built. The reason the International Space Station exists is

1289
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,599
that it had multiple countries involved. So now an administration

1290
01:04:34,679 --> 01:04:37,320
can't just cancel it. They have agreements with other countries,

1291
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,239
and that got the station done, and we might as

1292
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:45,480
well talk about the station, Okay, you know, continuously inhabited

1293
01:04:45,519 --> 01:04:48,519
since November of two thousand, so twenty four years straight.

1294
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:50,559
It's been about two hundred and eighty people that have

1295
01:04:50,639 --> 01:04:54,280
visited the station over that time. It's supposed to be

1296
01:04:54,320 --> 01:05:00,559
operated until twenty thirty, which point it'll be deorbited minus

1297
01:05:00,599 --> 01:05:01,320
a couple of years.

1298
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,079
Speaker 1: I have an app on my phone that every once

1299
01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:05,239
in a while alerts me that the space station is

1300
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,679
going to be overhead, and I go outside and look,

1301
01:05:07,679 --> 01:05:11,039
and it's just amazing to think that this thing that

1302
01:05:11,119 --> 01:05:15,599
looks like a shooting star going across the sky is

1303
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:19,159
traveling at sixty thousand miles an hour and there's people

1304
01:05:19,199 --> 01:05:19,519
on it.

1305
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe fifty six to ten. Yeah, I found it

1306
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,920
with six of the ten people. No, it's about twenty

1307
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,000
six thousand miles an hour, but oh, okay, six to

1308
01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:29,639
ten people on it, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it

1309
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:32,840
is extraordinary. But they I mean, the issue here Russia

1310
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,000
says that they're going to pull out in twenty twenty eight.

1311
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:37,559
But I don't know that kind of broke. I don't

1312
01:05:37,599 --> 01:05:39,320
know what they're going to keep doing. But the reality

1313
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:40,880
is that the older parts on the space station are

1314
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,679
starting to wear out. There's a persistent air leak on

1315
01:05:43,719 --> 01:05:46,079
this Vezda module, which was the second, one of the

1316
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:48,920
first modules up there. They have been able to fix it.

1317
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,639
They're finding microfractures many of the older parts, especially the

1318
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:54,159
docking ports space chunk.

1319
01:05:54,719 --> 01:05:58,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, little particles hit the space station can ripple in it.

1320
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 2: That's an issue, but it hasn't been a big issue

1321
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,519
lately for whatever reason. But just wear and tear. Space

1322
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:07,239
is hard on parts. Those parts have been up there

1323
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,079
for a long time. They weren't ready to be up

1324
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:11,000
there much longer. Right, twenty thirty is kind of the

1325
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:12,480
outer edge of as long as it's going to be.

1326
01:06:12,719 --> 01:06:14,239
Speaker 1: I think it was last year you told me they

1327
01:06:14,239 --> 01:06:17,840
were working on a new station to replace the.

1328
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,239
Speaker 2: ISS more than one. Let's get there, all right. Cool.

1329
01:06:22,599 --> 01:06:24,800
This year they did issue the contract for deorbiting the

1330
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:26,559
space station. Because it takes a few years to build

1331
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:30,480
a deorbit it's not surprisingly SpaceX won that contract. Current

1332
01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:34,000
estimates about eight hundred and fifty million to deorbit the station.

1333
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:37,960
The reason is it weighs four hundred metric tons. It

1334
01:06:38,039 --> 01:06:41,559
is really really big. That's nearly a million pounds. The

1335
01:06:41,639 --> 01:06:44,199
original plan back in the nineties when they were planting

1336
01:06:44,199 --> 01:06:46,199
to doing this, is that they would use three of

1337
01:06:46,239 --> 01:06:50,400
the Russian Progress spacecraft working together to diorbit it. That

1338
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,000
plan would never work. Actually there's not enough ports, it's

1339
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,079
not lined up correctly, and the Russians.

1340
01:06:54,719 --> 01:06:56,719
Speaker 1: Aren't and it's kind of Russia. Yeah.

1341
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So SpaceX is propose is this thing they called

1342
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,559
the USD orbit Vehicle. It's a modified Dragon. Are you surprised?

1343
01:07:03,599 --> 01:07:06,840
I don't think you're. Still it would be launched on

1344
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,639
a fulcon heavy because it's really quite bulky. Thirty metric

1345
01:07:10,719 --> 01:07:13,400
tons of fuel onboard, so six times what a normal

1346
01:07:14,719 --> 01:07:17,440
crew Dragon or cargo Dragon would carry. So it's a

1347
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,639
normal command module, be still a cargo Dragon, but the

1348
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,679
trunk is much bigger and full of fuel and thrusters

1349
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,800
forty six Draco thrusters on instead of sixteen, and so

1350
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,880
it would just have this huge, powerful burn that would

1351
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,400
last for quite a while. To deorbit it safely, it's

1352
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,920
such a big thing that it would be very dangerous

1353
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,559
not to deorbit it under control, and the space station

1354
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:45,000
cannot be unmanned, right, it needs continuous tending. That's just

1355
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:48,800
the way it was built. And so it's lots of

1356
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:50,480
folks are saying, like, why would you throw this away?

1357
01:07:50,559 --> 01:07:52,199
Why not put it up in a parking orbit. Well,

1358
01:07:52,239 --> 01:07:55,239
you put them in a parking orbit. It's very expensive

1359
01:07:55,239 --> 01:07:59,079
to do that, and then you want not ever going

1360
01:07:59,119 --> 01:08:00,719
to be really able to use it because you're going to

1361
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,760
quickly lose control of it. Risk of explosion is high.

1362
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,119
There's a lot of pressure vessels and things like. It's

1363
01:08:06,239 --> 01:08:07,360
dangerous to have it up there.

1364
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,039
Speaker 1: And also if it just eventually falls to Earth, there's

1365
01:08:10,039 --> 01:08:12,199
no telling where it will fall where we turn up

1366
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,079
and four hundred what is it, four hundred metric tons

1367
01:08:16,159 --> 01:08:19,560
metric tons? Yeah, four hundred metric tons hitting the Earth

1368
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:20,399
would be a bad thing.

1369
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, a bunch of it burn up, but a bunch

1370
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:26,600
of it wouldn't. When they diorbited mirror. You know, many

1371
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,239
parts made it into Point Nemo, that a spotless in

1372
01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:33,039
the Pacific where they drop this stuff. There's also a

1373
01:08:33,079 --> 01:08:35,520
question of why not take it apart. It's like, well,

1374
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:38,359
you know, the space station was designed to be assembled,

1375
01:08:38,399 --> 01:08:41,720
but it was not designed to be disassembled, right, so

1376
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,159
many many one of the things is that one of

1377
01:08:44,159 --> 01:08:46,760
the effects when you have very tight seals of metal

1378
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,800
in space is they weld together, so they're very likely

1379
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:51,319
not to come apart, even if you wanted it to.

1380
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:56,079
Much less, after they initially connect those pieces together, they

1381
01:08:56,119 --> 01:08:57,880
add a bunch of other connections on top of that

1382
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,640
to hook everything up, so they very difficult.

1383
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: All right. So just one thing that's in the back

1384
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:04,319
of my mind that maybe you can do as an

1385
01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:09,920
aside here is enumerate all of the different SpaceX rockets,

1386
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,720
because I'm totally confused with all these names and their sizes.

1387
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,159
So starting at the very smallest one is the Falcon Well.

1388
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 2: Really there's only two. It's really Falcon nine is really

1389
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:20,960
the only Falcon nine.

1390
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:22,319
Speaker 1: But then there's the Falcon Heavy.

1391
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:26,279
Speaker 2: Falcon Heavy's just three Falcon nine strapped together more right.

1392
01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:29,720
And then there's Starship Starship, which is the big mother, yeah,

1393
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,239
which is his experiment to make a fully reusaal space.

1394
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,279
Speaker 1: And that's the one that really hasn't got off the

1395
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:36,319
ground yet because it's been just so no, it's flown

1396
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:38,680
six times, but it's never Wait a minute, well, what

1397
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,039
was the one that just kind of destroyed the landing pit?

1398
01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:46,920
That was the first flight of Starship. Oh okay, all right,

1399
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,640
and they repaired the pad and continue flying. They're up

1400
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,119
to six flights though. Okay, so there's those three.

1401
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:55,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And admittedly Heavy is just a variant of

1402
01:09:55,399 --> 01:09:56,079
Falcon nine.

1403
01:09:56,159 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 1: Okay, but it's three times as big.

1404
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:00,319
Speaker 2: But this, you know, this deorbit vehicle would be unique.

1405
01:10:00,319 --> 01:10:02,960
It would fly on Heavy and it's just a deorbit

1406
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:03,560
the space station.

1407
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 1: Okay, now, yeah, thanks for comparing that up. I got confused.

1408
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,359
It's like alphabet soup. We did talk last year about

1409
01:10:10,199 --> 01:10:14,039
Axiom Space. Now, Axioum Space has been flying tourist flights

1410
01:10:14,079 --> 01:10:15,960
to the space station. They've had three of them as

1411
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,119
of this year. And they intended to build a intend

1412
01:10:19,159 --> 01:10:22,720
to build a space station, a commercial space station up there,

1413
01:10:23,159 --> 01:10:26,680
and they were going to dock it to the International

1414
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,199
Space Station as they were a stumbling it and then

1415
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,800
when it was got to a certain size, they would

1416
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:31,520
detach and.

1417
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:35,279
Speaker 2: Fly off on their own. And this scout formalized back

1418
01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:39,199
in twenty twenty one when NASA established the Commercial LEO

1419
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,199
Destination program. So NASA said, hey, we're getting out of

1420
01:10:42,279 --> 01:10:46,880
the lower orbit space station business. We're going we want

1421
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,039
to rent time on space stations if commercial will build them,

1422
01:10:51,119 --> 01:10:53,319
and they offered up some money to basically do their

1423
01:10:53,359 --> 01:10:55,279
research to figure out what kinds of space station is.

1424
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,960
In twenty twenty three, there were eleven teams that applied

1425
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,079
and that really came down that consulted down into three plans.

1426
01:11:02,239 --> 01:11:03,399
One of them is the one I just told you

1427
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:06,800
about the Axiom station. So their original plan was to

1428
01:11:07,359 --> 01:11:11,199
this is another billionaire. Their original plan who who to

1429
01:11:12,319 --> 01:11:15,159
dock a component? Dock the components to the space station

1430
01:11:15,199 --> 01:11:16,800
as they're assembling them, so they didn't need their all

1431
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,359
their own propulsion. It makes the system simpler. And then

1432
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:24,359
once they're fully assembled takeoff. They have money problems, not

1433
01:11:24,399 --> 01:11:27,840
surprising like most space companies do. And so while their

1434
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,640
original plan was to fly five modules space station, so

1435
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:33,279
that was a control module, they call the PPTM, a

1436
01:11:33,399 --> 01:11:37,079
payload power thermal module, then a habitat, then an air lock,

1437
01:11:37,319 --> 01:11:40,119
then a second habitat, and then a research and manufacturing

1438
01:11:40,159 --> 01:11:42,560
module which would also have this great couple on it.

1439
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 3: So having good views.

1440
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,199
Speaker 2: Now literally this month in December, they've said, okay, we're

1441
01:11:48,239 --> 01:11:52,000
going to fly the PPTM to the space station in

1442
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,359
twenty twenty seven, and then in twenty twenty eight will

1443
01:11:55,359 --> 01:11:58,680
fly the HAVE one and then we'll detach from the

1444
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,159
space station. Will be a controllable space station on them.

1445
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:04,760
We'll finish the rest later. And there's also a proposal

1446
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:06,880
they might be able to take Canada Arm to with them,

1447
01:12:08,239 --> 01:12:10,479
which is the arm system that's on the space station,

1448
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,159
which is still perfectly functional and while it's large, it

1449
01:12:14,199 --> 01:12:18,079
could be left in space and usable, or they go bankrupt,

1450
01:12:18,079 --> 01:12:21,119
the l whole thing falls apart. They've been con The

1451
01:12:21,239 --> 01:12:24,239
argument against Axiom is that they've been operating like their

1452
01:12:24,319 --> 01:12:27,079
NASA with that guaranteed budget, so they've been spending more

1453
01:12:27,079 --> 01:12:30,359
than they needed to. They're overstaffed, they've been contracting out

1454
01:12:30,359 --> 01:12:34,920
their construction. They're using tails to build their space station components,

1455
01:12:35,039 --> 01:12:37,439
which admittedly those guys know how to build spacetation components.

1456
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:39,760
They build a bunch of the International Space Station. But

1457
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:41,520
I don't think they have enough money to fund everything,

1458
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,079
and they're tourist flights don't even pay for themselves. They

1459
01:12:45,079 --> 01:12:48,920
haven't paid SpaceX for their flights so far. They're in trouble.

1460
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,079
The other proposal is Orbital REEF. This is the partnership

1461
01:12:54,079 --> 01:12:57,640
between Blue Origin, Sierra Space, Boeing and a few others.

1462
01:12:58,319 --> 01:13:01,479
This is the space station dependent on New Glen, so

1463
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,439
the component, the core component would be six meters because

1464
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:09,119
that's how big New Glen is. Their design would come

1465
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:11,439
out almost the same size as the International Space Station,

1466
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,520
but in much fewer pieces. Their crew transport would be

1467
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:19,119
dream Chaser and star Liner. Star Liner being the thing

1468
01:13:19,119 --> 01:13:19,840
that doesn't work.

1469
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't work and.

1470
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:26,399
Speaker 2: Almost at the point of flying cargo, but has naturally

1471
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:27,479
flown into space yet.

1472
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,159
Speaker 1: So we're not too hopeful about this one.

1473
01:13:30,399 --> 01:13:34,800
Speaker 2: This one, I mean, Blue Origin has deeper pockets. Uh,

1474
01:13:35,079 --> 01:13:38,039
and if New Glenn's works, which is a big mask,

1475
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,319
it's at least more possible. They certainly have a good

1476
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:43,800
crew with them. There was some argument that there was

1477
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,239
a conflict between them and Sierra Space, but officially they're

1478
01:13:46,239 --> 01:13:50,359
saying it's still all good. The third proposal, this is

1479
01:13:50,399 --> 01:13:54,840
all of the commercial projects, is called star Lab, and

1480
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,760
that's Lockey Martin with Nanoax, also part of Voyager Space.

1481
01:14:00,079 --> 01:14:01,880
Lockey Martin seems to have ducked out of this over

1482
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,479
the past couple of years and Airbs has taken their place,

1483
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:08,479
and Northrop grum And join them. So Airbus has an

1484
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:10,960
aerospace group which we don't. That's where are and space

1485
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:14,199
comes from, or are they're involved with. Northrop Rumman now

1486
01:14:14,279 --> 01:14:17,000
owns the Sickness spacecraft which does the resupply of the station,

1487
01:14:17,079 --> 01:14:20,800
so that's a fliable component. But they've committed to using

1488
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,880
Starship to fly star Lab. They only and this is

1489
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:28,319
a much smaller space station and midtedly the ISS arguably

1490
01:14:28,399 --> 01:14:33,199
is too big. That it's about four hundred and fifty

1491
01:14:33,279 --> 01:14:36,359
or nine hundred square meters inside, and that's big enough

1492
01:14:36,359 --> 01:14:38,159
to eluse stuff all the time. They spend a lot

1493
01:14:38,159 --> 01:14:40,800
of time looking for things in the space station, and

1494
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,319
so Starlab in some ways I think is the most

1495
01:14:43,359 --> 01:14:45,359
practical in the sense that they're just talking about a

1496
01:14:45,399 --> 01:14:49,279
two piece module. A service module has propultional in power,

1497
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:51,720
and then an inflatable halb module that inflates up to

1498
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:53,680
eight meters in diameter. So that's pretty big. It'd be

1499
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:54,760
about half the size of.

1500
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 1: It's like a bouncy castle in space.

1501
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,279
Speaker 2: More or less. But there's a problem when you get

1502
01:14:59,279 --> 01:15:01,800
that largely. Can't leave that volume empty because if you

1503
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,960
can't reach a handle to pull yourself around, you can

1504
01:15:05,039 --> 01:15:05,840
get stranded.

1505
01:15:06,239 --> 01:15:10,079
Speaker 1: Stranding without a way, you can't really swim in nothing.

1506
01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:12,840
Speaker 2: Nope, they can't swim. You can't like blow air like,

1507
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:15,399
none of that works, right, and so they'd have to

1508
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:19,479
fill the interior in like we complain that the space

1509
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:23,079
that the International Space Station is a bit of a

1510
01:15:23,159 --> 01:15:25,800
rabbit warren because all those modules had to fit inside

1511
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,159
of Shuttle. But they were a thing of three and

1512
01:15:28,199 --> 01:15:30,439
a half meters across. But that meant that you always

1513
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:34,079
have a handhold. Yeah, right, and that's good. So you

1514
01:15:34,159 --> 01:15:36,680
mean none of these guys were talking about launching earlier

1515
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:38,920
in twenty twenty seven or twenty twenty eight. They don't

1516
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:39,720
have enough money.

1517
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: But are they at least trying to make them expandable.

1518
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,239
I mean, one of the benefits of the ISS was

1519
01:15:45,239 --> 01:15:47,960
it's modular, and they all yes.

1520
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 2: Well, and so and so was mirror. All of these

1521
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:51,800
have multiple docking points that they could add more to.

1522
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and all the other countries could get involved and

1523
01:15:55,119 --> 01:15:57,640
put in their modules and whatever. That's the whole idea.

1524
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,359
Speaker 2: So those are the three from the commercial pro rams

1525
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:04,359
so far. There's one other that just recently showed up,

1526
01:16:04,359 --> 01:16:11,279
and it's called vast So a cryptocurrency billionaire by the

1527
01:16:11,359 --> 01:16:15,439
name of Jed Micaleeb started the company in twenty twenty one,

1528
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:19,119
did not submit for the commercial project. He's basically funding

1529
01:16:19,159 --> 01:16:24,119
this himself, but he's shooting low in that sense. His

1530
01:16:24,199 --> 01:16:28,600
initial products called space Haven one, and they've actually bent metal.

1531
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:34,079
They're in qualifications for their first components small enough to

1532
01:16:34,119 --> 01:16:38,439
fly on a Falcon nine next year, supposedly, so only

1533
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:40,359
about eighty square meters, so about the tenth the size

1534
01:16:40,359 --> 01:16:42,680
of the space station. This is little, but to keep

1535
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:46,000
it simple, he's going to do crew transport with crew Dragon,

1536
01:16:46,039 --> 01:16:47,920
but the crew Dragon will also be the life support

1537
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:50,560
and the communication systems and so forth, so sort of

1538
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:54,479
a man tended little orbiter that you put your crew

1539
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,560
Dragon onto and then you pressurize it and operate it

1540
01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:59,319
and so forth, so you don't have to put all

1541
01:16:59,319 --> 01:17:01,800
that stuff in, and then he wants to build bigger

1542
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,920
ones from there. So I mean, I'm always worried about

1543
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,359
billionaires in general with this stuff, because they're you know,

1544
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:11,119
kind of come and go on it. But at least

1545
01:17:11,119 --> 01:17:14,359
his goals are pretty simple. But he's had very little time.

1546
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,279
It's only been a couple of years, so at least

1547
01:17:18,319 --> 01:17:20,520
his goal space is small, so it's worth paying attention

1548
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,720
to ask, but again nothing flowing yet. There is another

1549
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:27,359
space station, right, there's the Chinese one, Tianggong. I didn't

1550
01:17:27,359 --> 01:17:29,880
even know that, Yeah, Tiangong. The first components went up

1551
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:31,880
in twenty twenty one, and then crews went on there.

1552
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:33,880
They added more modules in twenty twenty two. It's been

1553
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:37,279
continuously crude since twenty twenty two. It's all Chinese, though

1554
01:17:37,279 --> 01:17:39,520
it's all Chinese. Only Chinese have been on it. So

1555
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,039
there's three modules. There's been seven resupplies and seven crew

1556
01:17:43,119 --> 01:17:45,159
rotations on it. It's about one hundred metric tons, so

1557
01:17:45,159 --> 01:17:47,399
about a quarter of the sizes of the International Space Station.

1558
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:51,279
It's very much like Mirror was with a three module designed.

1559
01:17:51,279 --> 01:17:52,880
There's a fourth module is supposed to be coming in

1560
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,880
twenty twenty six, which is a telescope similar to Hubble.

1561
01:17:56,159 --> 01:17:59,199
No kidding, yeah, wow. So we don't know a lot

1562
01:17:59,239 --> 01:18:01,920
about it because it's Chese don't publish a lot of things.

1563
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,000
They keep in the solves. But they have been talking

1564
01:18:04,039 --> 01:18:07,640
to a few other countries about being involved, one of

1565
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:12,000
the not US centric countries for the most part, because

1566
01:18:12,039 --> 01:18:13,600
of course, one of the reasons they built this is

1567
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:17,000
because the Chinese weren't allowed to participate with NASA, right,

1568
01:18:17,039 --> 01:18:19,000
so they they built an alternative and they are you.

1569
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:22,359
Speaker 1: Know, the countries Russia, China and North Korea, they're all

1570
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,760
kind of getting together and trying to see how they

1571
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,680
can support each other against the great evil West.

1572
01:18:30,319 --> 01:18:33,359
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they don't necessarily get along all that. Well,

1573
01:18:33,359 --> 01:18:37,199
they're other than disagreeing with the West, they're not the same. Right.

1574
01:18:38,159 --> 01:18:40,920
You know, there's this idea of bricks that doesn't almost

1575
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,159
make sense. Anyway, let's move past the space station's definite.

1576
01:18:44,199 --> 01:18:47,840
We'll get into the other exploration of the Solar System.

1577
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,960
And it was a comment off of the interwebs from

1578
01:18:51,039 --> 01:18:53,720
Jordan Maxwell. He said, hey, what will starship do for

1579
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:57,800
outer planetary exploration? Can we do direct emissions? And when

1580
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:01,560
he's talking, Jordan hits on a point with a mission

1581
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:05,000
that flew this year called Europa Clipper. So Europa Clipper

1582
01:19:05,239 --> 01:19:11,279
is a spacecraft flying to Jupiter specifically to explore Europa.

1583
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:13,800
It's not going to orbit Europa. The radiation is too

1584
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:15,520
strong there, so it's just going to fly in and

1585
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:19,159
out around Jupiter, get itself out of the radiation belt, parodrectally,

1586
01:19:19,159 --> 01:19:21,960
but make a series of close passes on Europa.

1587
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:25,039
Speaker 1: And Europa is one of Jupiter's moons. That's, yeah, probably

1588
01:19:25,039 --> 01:19:27,840
the most interesting body in the Solar System other than Earth.

1589
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,119
Speaker 2: Don't you think I'm you know when you think I

1590
01:19:30,159 --> 01:19:32,920
would also put in Settleists in that list around Saturn,

1591
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:37,239
the one that our friend Rob Connery wrote about.

1592
01:19:38,239 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 1: I haven't read that book, by the way, but I

1593
01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:40,680
would love to.

1594
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great book because it's also an ice

1595
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:45,840
it's in. What we're finding is that there is a

1596
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:50,239
few of these planetoids or moons that have liquid water

1597
01:19:50,399 --> 01:19:53,840
under an ice cap, under an icy surface, and so

1598
01:19:54,039 --> 01:19:59,079
the radiation regime is very severe, but the moons are

1599
01:19:59,079 --> 01:20:02,000
being kept warm by tidal flexing. So because they're so

1600
01:20:02,039 --> 01:20:05,119
close to a gas giant, either Jupiter or our Saturn,

1601
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:09,119
that stress keeps them warm. It's like the same way

1602
01:20:09,159 --> 01:20:11,000
when you keep bending a piece of metal back and forth,

1603
01:20:11,039 --> 01:20:11,640
it warms up.

1604
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:13,439
Speaker 1: When you move water it warms up.

1605
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're flexing the whole core of the planet.

1606
01:20:16,359 --> 01:20:19,399
And so Europa is one of these. It's also one

1607
01:20:19,399 --> 01:20:22,840
that Arthur C. Clark wrote about for in his book

1608
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,079
twenty ten, where he said attempt no landing here.

1609
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:25,600
Speaker 1: Ye.

1610
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:31,960
Speaker 2: So the other interesting moon would be Titan, which is different. Again,

1611
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:36,199
it's also around Saturn. Saturn Europa's up there. You know,

1612
01:20:36,319 --> 01:20:39,159
you've got Calisto, Ande Gandamat as well in the Jupiter system.

1613
01:20:39,199 --> 01:20:41,600
Speaker 1: But some of these, a lot of these have liquid

1614
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:45,439
methane atmospheres, right, so they're liquid, but they're not water.

1615
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:48,279
Speaker 2: Titan does. Europa is an ice ball, so doesn't look

1616
01:20:48,319 --> 01:20:52,000
like as much atmosphere at all. That the action should

1617
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,199
be under the ice. And so the proposal is we

1618
01:20:54,199 --> 01:20:56,159
can learn enough about it and get good pictures to

1619
01:20:56,159 --> 01:20:59,199
figure out what to land that we'd land something there

1620
01:20:59,239 --> 01:21:01,479
and melt through the ice and put a submarine down.

1621
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,560
Speaker 1: Last pictures of fish within a machine gun.

1622
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,359
Speaker 2: You something like that. I would think, I think we're

1623
01:21:07,399 --> 01:21:12,359
shooting for bacteria, but you know, anything to find life

1624
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:15,600
somewhere else. So originally this is one of the most

1625
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:19,840
expensive missions ever. It's huge. Outer planet exploratory spacecraft are small.

1626
01:21:20,279 --> 01:21:22,439
This one's five and a half metric tons. It's big,

1627
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,039
so big, and so it was supposed to fly. They

1628
01:21:25,079 --> 01:21:27,439
spent five billion on this thing, or four billion to

1629
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:31,000
build it, plus a budget of over a billion for operations.

1630
01:21:31,039 --> 01:21:32,560
Speaker 1: Now, who's they, Who's doing this?

1631
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 2: Is NASA okay, although it has with involvement from Issa

1632
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:37,960
and Jackson a few others as well. But this is

1633
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:41,039
one of the largest missions ever built to the Outer

1634
01:21:41,119 --> 01:21:45,600
Solar System, and originally it was planned to fly on SLS,

1635
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:48,399
the same rocket to fly it is supposed to fly

1636
01:21:48,399 --> 01:21:50,359
the ARTEMISS missions because it was so heavy and it

1637
01:21:50,359 --> 01:21:53,760
would be a direct flight. So SLS at the time

1638
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:56,920
was expected to have enough power to fly Europa Clipper

1639
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:59,439
directly to Jupiter in about three years.

1640
01:22:00,079 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 1: To stop at Mars, for example, we.

1641
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 2: Didn't have to do any slingshots right and launch in

1642
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:10,479
twenty twenty four, arrive in twenty twenty seven. But at

1643
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,600
two and a half billion dollars a lunch plus, you're

1644
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,159
going to be late. Because they build them slow slowly.

1645
01:22:16,039 --> 01:22:19,079
They switched to a Falcon Heavy, so instead of two

1646
01:22:19,079 --> 01:22:20,960
and a half billion dollars, they spent one hundred and

1647
01:22:21,079 --> 01:22:26,039
eighty million dollars, so less than percent of the cost.

1648
01:22:27,079 --> 01:22:30,159
But and this was a Falcon Heavy doing full push,

1649
01:22:30,399 --> 01:22:33,760
no reusable, no recoverable cores. They burnt up every bit

1650
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:37,520
of fuel to get Europa Clipper on its way. But

1651
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:40,479
it doesn't have enough thrust and so now it's going

1652
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:44,079
to take six years to get to Jupiter, including a

1653
01:22:44,119 --> 01:22:46,439
fly by of Mars and twenty twenty five and a

1654
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:48,319
fly by of Earth in twenty twenty six to get

1655
01:22:48,359 --> 01:22:51,319
additional boost to get it out to Jupiter by twenty thirty.

1656
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:56,680
So would Starship make a difference. Yes, Remember this is

1657
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:59,720
a vehicle. It only weighs five point seven metric tons

1658
01:23:00,239 --> 01:23:02,920
and Starship is supposed to lift one hundred metric tons.

1659
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,119
So you could put a big old kickstage plus that

1660
01:23:05,199 --> 01:23:08,960
thing in there and get it directly to Jupiter. Although

1661
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:15,159
all of this conversation about refueling might open the door

1662
01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:18,079
to like right now, they're only talking about taking those

1663
01:23:18,079 --> 01:23:22,520
tankers flying like the Lunar Lander into orbit, which is

1664
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:25,000
a kind of starship, and then flying tankers up to

1665
01:23:25,039 --> 01:23:27,399
it and refueling it till there's enough fuel in it. Yeah,

1666
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:30,199
but why not actually builds a refueling depot.

1667
01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we were talking about the very beginning.

1668
01:23:32,199 --> 01:23:34,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, a refueling depot where the tanker would go there

1669
01:23:34,399 --> 01:23:36,119
and well, now you could have all kinds of spacefts

1670
01:23:36,279 --> 01:23:39,199
go up, take up fuel from the from the refueling depot,

1671
01:23:39,239 --> 01:23:40,079
and then go out.

1672
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 3: Where they want.

1673
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:44,760
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a queue in software. Right.

1674
01:23:45,159 --> 01:23:49,399
It's a place where you could have asynchronously flights bringing

1675
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:52,880
fuel up and then flights filling up from it.

1676
01:23:53,159 --> 01:23:55,079
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, Well, and you could get to a place

1677
01:23:55,159 --> 01:23:57,359
where that's another commercial product in space.

1678
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1679
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,600
Speaker 2: Hey, we want methane and liquid oxygen, and at this

1680
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:02,880
depot you can fly them from the Earth, which will

1681
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:04,680
cost you a certain amount from low with orbit. But

1682
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:07,640
if you could say, extract those resources from the Moon

1683
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:09,600
and bring it back yeah, same, you.

1684
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:11,600
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was talking about before. When we

1685
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:15,199
have some sort of solar power, solar powered factory on

1686
01:24:15,279 --> 01:24:18,760
the Moon that produces fuel somehow.

1687
01:24:18,319 --> 01:24:20,079
Speaker 2: It's one of the possibilities, and then we just need

1688
01:24:20,119 --> 01:24:21,880
to build a refueling depots. The other problem is when

1689
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:25,239
you're trying to transfer fuel, which again we've never done. Yeah,

1690
01:24:25,359 --> 01:24:27,840
is that in free fall the liquid's not sitting by

1691
01:24:28,279 --> 01:24:31,640
the drain port. Yeah, right, you have to accelerate the vehicle.

1692
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:32,399
Speaker 1: That's to be pumped.

1693
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:35,079
Speaker 2: Well you can't. That can't even be pumped. It has

1694
01:24:35,119 --> 01:24:36,560
to actually be settled. Yeah.

1695
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about that kind of fuel.

1696
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:41,199
Speaker 2: If the liquid's floating around in the tank, how is

1697
01:24:41,239 --> 01:24:44,159
the pump even going to pull on it, right, you're right, yeah, yeah.

1698
01:24:44,199 --> 01:24:48,800
So your solution then is to accelerate the tank. Just

1699
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,279
give it a little thrust, right, Okay, you'll always see

1700
01:24:51,319 --> 01:24:53,479
when a rocket does a relight on an engine, little

1701
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:55,319
vern air thrushs will kick in first, and it's to get

1702
01:24:55,319 --> 01:24:57,199
all the fuel to settle to the bottom of the tank, right,

1703
01:24:57,239 --> 01:24:59,399
so they can start the engine. The problem is it

1704
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,000
changes arbit when you do that. Yeah.

1705
01:25:01,199 --> 01:25:03,359
Speaker 1: Fortunately, space is a big place and you have some

1706
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:04,600
room to wiggle around.

1707
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:06,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can wiggle around, but also you got

1708
01:25:06,239 --> 01:25:08,199
to find things right, that's true.

1709
01:25:08,279 --> 01:25:09,439
Speaker 1: Now, where did I put that?

1710
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:14,359
Speaker 2: So one of the proposals is here somewhere. So one

1711
01:25:14,359 --> 01:25:18,119
of the proposals would be to build a rotating fuel depot.

1712
01:25:18,319 --> 01:25:22,039
So you dock to a ring and then you spin

1713
01:25:22,119 --> 01:25:23,960
it up enough to settle the fuel. Then you pump

1714
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:28,319
it and then you spin it down and you can

1715
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:29,279
undock again.

1716
01:25:30,239 --> 01:25:33,399
Speaker 1: Physics, it's not just a good idea, it's the law.

1717
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 2: Kind of the law, all right. So that's the Europa

1718
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,680
Clipper mission. Another mission, another mission that launched this year

1719
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:43,840
was the Hera mission. This is the follow on to

1720
01:25:44,039 --> 01:25:47,800
the Dart mission, which was the asteroid redirect mission, so

1721
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:52,439
Hara another Greek another, although it's an acronym. Okay, So

1722
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:56,359
if you remember back in twenty two, I was actually

1723
01:25:56,399 --> 01:25:58,119
twenty one when it launched, but twenty two when they

1724
01:25:58,159 --> 01:26:03,319
actually impact. There was this binary asteroid system, Dimorphose and

1725
01:26:03,399 --> 01:26:08,479
Dittymouse or diddy Moon, where the DART mission hit the

1726
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:10,399
smaller moon that was in orbit of the bigger moon

1727
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:14,560
or the bigger asteroid. The orbital period before they started

1728
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:17,199
was eleven point nine hours and their goal was to

1729
01:26:17,199 --> 01:26:19,239
try and change it by a minute. They were hoping

1730
01:26:19,239 --> 01:26:22,880
for seventy three seconds, and the actual result was thirty

1731
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:26,800
two minutes. So they really moved thematic change. They moved

1732
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:28,159
it far more than expected.

1733
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:32,159
Speaker 1: Well that's good news because you know, if we find

1734
01:26:32,199 --> 01:26:33,119
a satellite.

1735
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:35,159
Speaker 2: It open some possibility. But we're still trying to find

1736
01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:37,840
out why. So there's been a lot of observery. One

1737
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:41,159
of the reasons they'd picked Dimorphos is that it passes

1738
01:26:41,159 --> 01:26:43,039
close enough to the Earth that the telescope is going

1739
01:26:43,079 --> 01:26:44,720
to look at it. Yeah, so they've been collecting as

1740
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:46,920
much information as they can and there's a huge tale

1741
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:49,039
of debris. One of the things we've come to realize

1742
01:26:49,079 --> 01:26:52,760
is that Ditimos was a rubble pile. It was not

1743
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:56,680
a solid asteroid. It was a conglomerate of little pieces,

1744
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:59,199
and so when they hit it, those little pieces sprayed

1745
01:26:59,199 --> 01:27:02,039
out for tens of thousands of kilometers.

1746
01:27:02,319 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 1: Wow.

1747
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,600
Speaker 2: And so Hara is the emission that should get there

1748
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:08,960
in twenty six to go take a look at it.

1749
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:11,520
And by the way, the Hara mission is a typical

1750
01:27:12,079 --> 01:27:16,720
outer outer planet's spacecraft. It's about one metric ton like

1751
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:19,560
Europea clippers, almost six metric tons like this is that's

1752
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:22,760
really really big. Yeah, this is the normal size. So

1753
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:24,279
it's got a couple of cubes, thatt and so forth.

1754
01:27:24,319 --> 01:27:28,239
But it's going to go back there and get additional information, image,

1755
01:27:28,279 --> 01:27:31,159
more detail the state after the impact, and we're going

1756
01:27:31,199 --> 01:27:35,560
to learn more about protecting our planet from asteroid impacts. Yeah.

1757
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: I mean, if there's anything that should unite the countries

1758
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:38,720
of the world, it's that.

1759
01:27:39,359 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that thing that way, you know, why

1760
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:44,199
did the dinosaurs die out? Didn't have a space program?

1761
01:27:44,399 --> 01:27:48,439
That's right, you know, this makes the difference. Don't be

1762
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:52,399
like the dinosaurs. The Parker Solar Probe is going to

1763
01:27:52,399 --> 01:27:55,920
make its closest pass on the Sun in on the

1764
01:27:56,319 --> 01:27:59,720
on Christmas Eve this year what solar probe the Parker

1765
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:02,359
Solar pro So this is okay that this is a

1766
01:28:03,039 --> 01:28:05,880
exploratory vehicle for getting close to the Sun. It's the

1767
01:28:06,119 --> 01:28:08,640
it's the closest approach to the Sun we've ever done.

1768
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:12,680
It's also the fastest moving spacecraft because you really have

1769
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:16,159
to change your doubt ear vector to get closer to

1770
01:28:16,199 --> 01:28:16,520
the Sun.

1771
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got it. It's like it's like putting your

1772
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:19,640
hand in a pizza oven.

1773
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:20,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's moving.

1774
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:21,279
Speaker 1: Only have so long.

1775
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's uh, we'll we'll see what we learn.

1776
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:26,399
We're learning more about the Sun all the time. We

1777
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:30,079
had an interesting sun yere, right, I remember we Oh, yes,

1778
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:32,880
so we were at the solar maximum. And so we've

1779
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:34,760
had a couple of big coronal mash to charges and

1780
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:37,439
so people have seen aurora that never thought they'd ever

1781
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:38,039
see aurora.

1782
01:28:38,119 --> 01:28:41,199
Speaker 1: I could not believe that I went to bed early

1783
01:28:41,359 --> 01:28:43,960
on the night that there were there was the aurora

1784
01:28:44,079 --> 01:28:46,960
in New London, Connecticut. Like I literally could have gotten

1785
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,279
my car driven five minutes and seen it.

1786
01:28:49,399 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 2: And we saw it here. We laid on the deck

1787
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:56,479
looking straight up. It was over us. So jealous, but

1788
01:28:57,039 --> 01:28:59,760
apparently we're not done, like, oh no, there's going to

1789
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:01,720
be more. Our events though, will be more, Yeah, without

1790
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:04,399
a doubt. By the way, that shortened the lifespan of

1791
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:05,800
a whole lot of starlink satellites.

1792
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:07,319
Speaker 1: Oh interesting.

1793
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:10,560
Speaker 2: So when CME show and these choral mass ejectionally show up,

1794
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:14,439
they energize the atmosphere, and the atmosphere expands, and so

1795
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:16,880
it increases the drag for low orthopities. It's also why

1796
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:22,239
we lost Skylab when we did. Remember the original Skylab

1797
01:29:22,319 --> 01:29:26,119
was the original US space station, built out of an

1798
01:29:26,359 --> 01:29:29,359
upper stage of a Saturn five back in the seventies.

1799
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:31,880
Speaker 1: Seventy seven, seventy six, seventy.

1800
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:34,319
Speaker 2: Seven, something like that. Yeah, And the intent had been

1801
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:38,399
to get back there with the Space Shuttle to save it,

1802
01:29:39,079 --> 01:29:40,960
but it re entered in seventy nine, and the Shuttle

1803
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:42,000
didn't go up till eighty one.

1804
01:29:42,079 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 1: I remember.

1805
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,600
Speaker 2: One of the reasons was there was a solar maximum

1806
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:48,439
that expanded the atmosphere and increased the drag on skylabs.

1807
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:49,199
Speaker 3: They lost them.

1808
01:29:49,279 --> 01:29:52,800
Speaker 1: So we had a blizzard here in Connecticut in nineteen

1809
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:55,640
seventy eight, the Blizzard of seventy eight. It was a

1810
01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:59,079
big one, and I remember we had no school. There

1811
01:29:59,159 --> 01:30:01,079
was literally five feet of snow.

1812
01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:01,640
Speaker 2: Wow.

1813
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:05,199
Speaker 1: And so my brother and our friends got together and

1814
01:30:05,239 --> 01:30:09,520
we built what we called Skylab, which was just this snow.

1815
01:30:10,279 --> 01:30:12,720
I don't know what to compare it to. It had

1816
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,640
tunnels and they had places where snowballs could go down in.

1817
01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:19,159
It had compartments. I just remember this as a kid,

1818
01:30:19,239 --> 01:30:22,640
and it's great. When you said Skylab, it took me

1819
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:24,520
right back to being a kid because that was in

1820
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:25,319
the news.

1821
01:30:25,159 --> 01:30:26,680
Speaker 2: And that was that was in the news then because

1822
01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:28,359
they were going to lose it. I think there was

1823
01:30:28,399 --> 01:30:31,119
nothing they could do about it. I was a huge

1824
01:30:31,159 --> 01:30:33,920
space station. If you go to Houston, there's a model

1825
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:35,560
of it that you can walk around in full scale.

1826
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:39,359
The test unit. Wow. One more mission to mention, and

1827
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:44,359
that is ingenuity. This was the little helicopter on Mars. Okay,

1828
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:47,199
so back at twenty one when the Perseverance land or

1829
01:30:47,279 --> 01:30:49,000
landed me on Mars, the last thing we've sent up

1830
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:52,960
to Mars, and it had an experimental little guy. It's

1831
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,399
like four pounds and little rover experiment. Can we make

1832
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:59,000
something fly on Mars? The roaders have to move really fast,

1833
01:30:59,079 --> 01:31:01,880
is because the atmosphere pressure is extremely low. It was

1834
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:04,239
only supposed to fly four test missions, but it worked

1835
01:31:04,359 --> 01:31:08,239
perfectly solar powered, so they just landed to recharge and

1836
01:31:08,279 --> 01:31:10,479
fly it again, and it basically could scout ahead of

1837
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:13,880
the rover. It lasted three years. It flew seventy two missions.

1838
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:16,800
Speaker 1: Well, the rover lasted a lot longer. Whatever the opportunity,

1839
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:18,680
a lot longer than they thought, a lot long enough.

1840
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:21,760
And Perseverance will last many more years. It's radio thermal

1841
01:31:22,119 --> 01:31:26,880
is powered like it'll be great, brilliant. But in January

1842
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:30,760
this year we lost Ingenuity to an accident caused by

1843
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:34,119
confusion in its flight computer. They were flying ahead of

1844
01:31:34,199 --> 01:31:38,079
Perseverance over some really simple terrain and it uses an

1845
01:31:38,119 --> 01:31:41,279
optical reader to figure out its orientation, and the train

1846
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:44,000
was so featureless it got confused as to where it was,

1847
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:47,199
and so it tried to land and it landed moving

1848
01:31:47,239 --> 01:31:50,119
too quickly, and the rotors hit the ground, and some

1849
01:31:50,239 --> 01:31:54,319
jobscript programmer didn't do the right lamb to expression, and.

1850
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 2: They fixed a bunch of problems in Ingenuity. Along the way,

1851
01:31:58,039 --> 01:32:00,239
they learned more about flying on Mars. Though.

1852
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:04,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, by the way, I'm not disparaging JavaScript. It's

1853
01:32:04,119 --> 01:32:06,680
just an easy target. It's the language you love to

1854
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:08,880
hate because we all have to use it.

1855
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:12,039
Speaker 2: All right, never mind, it's not you know that. Now

1856
01:32:12,039 --> 01:32:14,479
there's going to be more flyers on Mars withoutout a doubt.

1857
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:18,520
There's a mission being developed called dragon Fly, which is

1858
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:23,119
actually a flyer for Titan the Moon. Because the atmospheric

1859
01:32:23,119 --> 01:32:25,399
pressure on Titan is really high and the gravity is

1860
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:29,199
really low, you could flap your arms with you know,

1861
01:32:29,279 --> 01:32:31,720
plastic wings on and fly there. I mean you freeze

1862
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,119
to death because it's negative two hundred degrees there, but

1863
01:32:34,199 --> 01:32:36,199
you could fly yourself on Titan.

1864
01:32:36,479 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: Wow.

1865
01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:38,600
Speaker 2: They yeah, they're going to make a flyer for Titan

1866
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:41,439
called Dragonfly. It's apparently going to fly in twenty twenty

1867
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:44,960
eight on a Falulcon heavy. Wow. That's pretty good. All right.

1868
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:49,920
So last last thing, Yeah, James Webb Space the same

1869
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:52,079
we wrapped up last time with James Web.

1870
01:32:52,159 --> 01:32:56,399
Speaker 1: Now, those who don't recall the history of dot Net

1871
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:59,840
rocks with the James web telescope, we actually went there. Yeah,

1872
01:33:00,199 --> 01:33:03,800
it was launched. We met with the crew, and we

1873
01:33:04,239 --> 01:33:08,560
met with some of the people at NASA there that

1874
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:10,560
and we got to see it, you know, in the

1875
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:12,119
clean room in person.

1876
01:33:12,199 --> 01:33:13,720
Speaker 2: They would have let us in the clean room, which

1877
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:14,439
is no fun.

1878
01:33:14,239 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 1: But no, but we got just you know, there's a

1879
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,800
room with great big windows where you can look down

1880
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:21,640
in the clean room and everybody's.

1881
01:33:21,359 --> 01:33:22,640
Speaker 2: We saw James Webb in person.

1882
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:23,199
Speaker 3: It's true.

1883
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:29,039
Speaker 1: And that is where Richard ingratiated himself to the people

1884
01:33:29,079 --> 01:33:32,119
at NASA that called him back to talk to their

1885
01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:38,359
various organizations, because Richard knew a lot about what all

1886
01:33:38,399 --> 01:33:42,720
these different sections of NASA was doing, and they all

1887
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:45,279
didn't really talk to each other all that much. Right,

1888
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:47,840
They like the way I tell stories, So, oh, come on,

1889
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:49,680
you are being so modest, my friend.

1890
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:51,279
Speaker 2: It was good. It was really a lot of fun.

1891
01:33:51,359 --> 01:33:52,520
Speaker 1: It was really great fun.

1892
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:57,039
Speaker 2: So let's catch up on James web Flew Christmas Time

1893
01:33:57,079 --> 01:33:59,159
twenty twenty one. So it's been up there a few years.

1894
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:04,119
In fact, they are currently taking their fourth cycle proposals, right,

1895
01:34:04,199 --> 01:34:06,560
so if you want to use James Web you basically

1896
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:09,279
after there's every so often they make a propos they

1897
01:34:09,279 --> 01:34:12,079
may open up a window for proposals. That proposals window

1898
01:34:13,239 --> 01:34:17,840
just closed. There was a lot of proposals. A total

1899
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:21,960
of seventy eight thousand hours of officeration time has been

1900
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:26,319
requested for twenty twenty five. Considering there's only eight thousand,

1901
01:34:26,359 --> 01:34:28,680
seven hundred and sixty hours in a year and they've

1902
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:30,760
asked for seventy eight thousand. That's a problem.

1903
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:33,600
Speaker 1: That's a little bit of a problem, a math problem, actually.

1904
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:38,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's this is how popular this this spacecraft is, right,

1905
01:34:38,119 --> 01:34:42,239
I mean, it's teaching us amazing things. They're also taking

1906
01:34:42,279 --> 01:34:45,520
requests for a Hubble, but now they're starting to limit

1907
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,840
the mission the uses of Hubble based on budget that

1908
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:51,520
they can't afford to have as big a cro on

1909
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:53,680
Hobble as it's getting so old. There's not enough money

1910
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:55,720
to fully utilize Hubble even with its problems.

1911
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:59,079
Speaker 1: So Richard, I know that you probably subscribe to JWT

1912
01:34:59,319 --> 01:35:03,159
images that come down. What is the most fascinating picture

1913
01:35:03,239 --> 01:35:03,720
you've seen?

1914
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:07,479
Speaker 2: Well, there's so many things to talk about in that space,

1915
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:10,399
like it has it made better images, but if you

1916
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:12,760
had to pick one, I don't know, like the better

1917
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:15,640
images of the of the horsehead Nebulam, Yeah, that have

1918
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:18,960
so much depth they're unbelievable. But to me it's actually

1919
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,720
the science that it's doing. Yeah. You know, we talked

1920
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:25,560
about the crisis in cosmology last time, which is that

1921
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:27,920
we have two different strategies for measuring the age of

1922
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:30,720
the universe, and they're not the same and initiation, and

1923
01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:32,560
we thought James Web would bring this together, and then

1924
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:34,119
for a while that it looked like it pulled it apart.

1925
01:35:35,279 --> 01:35:40,680
There's an image that shows an ancient, ancient galaxy like

1926
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:43,479
in the first few hundred million years of the existence

1927
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:46,560
of the universe. But because James Web was so sensitive,

1928
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:49,239
they're actually able to get some of a spectrographic analysis

1929
01:35:49,239 --> 01:35:53,560
of it. And the galaxy is too big and too

1930
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:58,560
developed for the model of our understanding of the universe. So,

1931
01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:01,760
you know, we thought that the universe would it came

1932
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:05,560
into existence a particular way that as it expanded in

1933
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:08,600
the inner and the temperature started to decrease, it started

1934
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:11,800
forming up into galaxies, but those initial galaxies would be

1935
01:36:12,159 --> 01:36:17,199
short lived, very large hot stars. But the pictures don't

1936
01:36:17,239 --> 01:36:18,039
line up with this.

1937
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:23,359
Speaker 1: So it's really challenging our assumptions of how the universe

1938
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:27,479
started and how it's we've actually reached, and how it's aged.

1939
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:31,399
And we recently discovered that it's accelerating faster than we thought, right.

1940
01:36:31,239 --> 01:36:35,159
Speaker 2: That it's at well a weird why is it accelerating

1941
01:36:35,359 --> 01:36:40,279
at all, and b why is it increasing the acceleration? Right,

1942
01:36:40,319 --> 01:36:42,439
there's a theory that's been bouncing around that's starting to

1943
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:45,800
get a little bit more attraction now. And it's even weirder,

1944
01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:46,159
is it?

1945
01:36:46,199 --> 01:36:47,239
Speaker 1: The dark matter theory?

1946
01:36:48,079 --> 01:36:51,039
Speaker 2: So the dark matter theory exists because of general relativity.

1947
01:36:51,079 --> 01:36:54,880
We've pretty much proved that general relativity is correct, right,

1948
01:36:54,960 --> 01:36:58,960
that it explains how gravitation works, except that there's not

1949
01:36:59,319 --> 01:37:04,079
enough measureable matter for general relativity to make sense. The

1950
01:37:04,119 --> 01:37:07,920
galaxy should fly apart. You can't see enough matter to

1951
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:11,159
make it make sense, and so dark matter was created

1952
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:14,680
as the offset. Now it's not a little correction, it's

1953
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:17,640
not like a couple percentage, it's like sixty percent. Yeah,

1954
01:37:17,760 --> 01:37:23,039
more than all that know matter? Right, And so one

1955
01:37:23,079 --> 01:37:25,520
of the theories that's been flying around is this idea

1956
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:29,439
that black holes gain mass as.

1957
01:37:29,239 --> 01:37:32,119
Speaker 1: They age, and that the oh that makes sense because

1958
01:37:32,159 --> 01:37:35,039
they're eating things, aren't they Well.

1959
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:41,520
Speaker 2: Generally speaking, they're not. Everything gets stuck in the accretion disk.

1960
01:37:42,079 --> 01:37:44,880
As the material starts to accelerate towards the speed of light,

1961
01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:47,039
it can never actually get there, so it gets hung

1962
01:37:47,079 --> 01:37:48,119
up in the accretion dish.

1963
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:50,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't the mass of a black hole increase because

1964
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:54,079
it's I mean, something that is consuming more stuff and

1965
01:37:54,159 --> 01:37:58,199
packing it into denser and denser spaces would tend to

1966
01:37:58,359 --> 01:37:59,279
increase in mess.

1967
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:02,279
Speaker 2: It doesn't actually consume anything. They're all trapped in the

1968
01:38:02,279 --> 01:38:02,960
accretion disk.

1969
01:38:03,359 --> 01:38:05,800
Speaker 1: I don't understand, but I guess I'm going to take

1970
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:06,520
your word for it.

1971
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:12,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's complicated, and it's losing Hawking show that there's

1972
01:38:12,119 --> 01:38:16,520
hawking radiation, which is missions from the black hole. So

1973
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:21,720
it should be losing mass. But they're thinking that as

1974
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:24,319
you get to the older and older parts of the universe,

1975
01:38:24,399 --> 01:38:27,920
you're looking further and further away ten eleven, twelve billion

1976
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:32,279
light years away. Those are some of the oldest bits

1977
01:38:32,319 --> 01:38:36,079
of matter in the universe, and so they've gained more

1978
01:38:36,119 --> 01:38:39,119
mass than anything else would. It's one way to address

1979
01:38:39,159 --> 01:38:42,920
the acceleration problem, but it might also address the mass problem.

1980
01:38:43,159 --> 01:38:44,600
See one of the issues you hear with the age

1981
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:45,199
of the universe.

1982
01:38:45,359 --> 01:38:48,600
Speaker 1: It's almost it's almost reverse of what we understand.

1983
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:52,319
Speaker 2: Yes, you would think as things got older they would lose,

1984
01:38:52,359 --> 01:38:55,279
but they don't seem to be. So that schis them

1985
01:38:55,279 --> 01:38:58,680
that crisis in cosmology because we use two different strategies right.

1986
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:02,520
One is that we use local stars that we can

1987
01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:06,800
measure precisely, because that's what our telescopes can do to

1988
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:08,520
calculate the age of the universe. And the other is

1989
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:12,159
that we use these much older structures. And so the

1990
01:39:12,279 --> 01:39:15,960
argument now is that as the older structures are different

1991
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:18,800
than what we think, that they've been aging in a

1992
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:22,800
weird way, and so that an error creeps into general

1993
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:26,079
relativity as we get into the older parts of the universe. Okay,

1994
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:30,720
so it's helping us to change our understanding of gravitation.

1995
01:39:31,119 --> 01:39:32,880
Speaker 3: With these observations from James Webb.

1996
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:37,359
Speaker 2: There were predictions from this, but they, you know, without

1997
01:39:37,399 --> 01:39:40,439
any evidence, it was hard to deal with. Going back

1998
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:42,800
to the eighties, there were proposals for these kinds of things,

1999
01:39:43,119 --> 01:39:45,119
but back in the eighties you only had things like Hubble,

2000
01:39:45,560 --> 01:39:47,800
and Hubble couldn't see far enough back. Right, So we

2001
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:49,840
finally have an instruance seeing far enough back that we

2002
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:53,439
might be confirming some of these ideas.

2003
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:57,039
Speaker 1: You said, eleven twelve billion years, But how old do

2004
01:39:57,119 --> 01:40:00,039
they anticipate or how old do they believe? That the

2005
01:40:00,039 --> 01:40:00,840
Big Bang.

2006
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 2: Is thirteen point eight all right, so it's it is

2007
01:40:04,119 --> 01:40:07,560
jwt able to see back that far, or is twelve

2008
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:10,880
billion about the well closest that can get. No, we

2009
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:13,840
get we get closer because there's a point at which

2010
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:16,319
the universe existed for a while before we could actually

2011
01:40:16,359 --> 01:40:20,720
form anything like. These numbers get complicated and you know

2012
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:24,640
we're in the error probability error zone here too. But yeah,

2013
01:40:25,319 --> 01:40:27,279
we're starting to see you back that far.

2014
01:40:27,439 --> 01:40:29,880
Speaker 1: It's really just amazing. I mean, it's a time machine,

2015
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:31,880
the JWT really.

2016
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:34,920
Speaker 2: That's that's its job. So there's yeah, there's an argument.

2017
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:38,920
The jades GS, which is the oldest galaxy we've seen,

2018
01:40:40,279 --> 01:40:42,760
was formed two hundred and ninety million years after the

2019
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:47,600
Big Bang. So thirteen point four thirteen point five billion, wow,

2020
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:50,079
so that is way way back there. Like we have

2021
01:40:50,119 --> 01:40:53,840
an instrument now, we have a set of eyes that

2022
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:55,960
is impossibly old.

2023
01:40:56,079 --> 01:41:00,399
Speaker 1: Here's another thing, because the universe is expanding, is it

2024
01:41:00,439 --> 01:41:03,840
possible and we see something that old that it is

2025
01:41:04,039 --> 01:41:09,560
closer now? And then could you focus the telescope on

2026
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:13,560
where you expect it to be now or after a

2027
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:16,039
certain amount of period and be able to track it

2028
01:41:16,079 --> 01:41:16,640
through time.

2029
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:18,960
Speaker 2: Well, you're always looking back in time when you're looking

2030
01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:20,319
back to these things anyway.

2031
01:41:20,520 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 1: Right, But the amount of time you look back depends

2032
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:23,880
on how far you're looking.

2033
01:41:24,359 --> 01:41:26,600
Speaker 2: But you're missing a key part to this, which is

2034
01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:29,000
that with the acceleration of the universe, it means there

2035
01:41:29,119 --> 01:41:32,359
is light that will never reach us. So we can't

2036
01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:35,439
see to the edge of universe because there's no edge.

2037
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:38,960
Speaker 1: Okay, but let's see the one that you the galaxy

2038
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:43,399
that you just mentioned. Because we're looking that far back, right,

2039
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:47,000
is it possible to focus the telescope on another part

2040
01:41:47,039 --> 01:41:50,159
of space where we think that galaxy may have traveled too,

2041
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:55,520
because it's expanding, and actually see the same galaxy, but

2042
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:58,319
because it's in a different time, it'll be different.

2043
01:41:58,359 --> 01:42:01,119
Speaker 2: Well, we can't. We only see it in one place.

2044
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:03,600
What will happen as time goes by is eventually we

2045
01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:05,640
won't see it at all as it gets past the

2046
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:07,000
visual horizon for us.

2047
01:42:07,079 --> 01:42:09,000
Speaker 1: But what about things that are coming towards us?

2048
01:42:09,359 --> 01:42:12,159
Speaker 2: Nothing is everything's move expanding away from us. The universe

2049
01:42:12,199 --> 01:42:12,800
is getting.

2050
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:15,359
Speaker 1: Bigger, Everything is expanding away from everything else.

2051
01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:19,640
Speaker 2: That's correct, Yeah, right, Other than in the local system,

2052
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:20,760
nothing is getting closer.

2053
01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:22,319
Speaker 1: I'm going to pour another glass of wine.

2054
01:42:23,359 --> 01:42:26,920
Speaker 2: You're probably the right thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. When

2055
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:29,039
it comes to the vast majority of the universe. From

2056
01:42:29,079 --> 01:42:31,960
any point in the universe looking out at the universe,

2057
01:42:32,039 --> 01:42:33,000
it is expanding away from it.

2058
01:42:33,079 --> 01:42:36,119
Speaker 1: I just think of galaxies and as spirals, right, yes,

2059
01:42:36,399 --> 01:42:40,760
and those spirals are moving within themselves, and then the

2060
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:45,800
entire spiral is moving away. However, and Rameda and the

2061
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:49,600
Milky Way are moving toward each other, well, that's and

2062
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:53,640
will collide. So that blows that theory that everything is

2063
01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:54,760
moving away from each other.

2064
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:58,319
Speaker 2: Well, only in the local system. Right as soon as

2065
01:42:58,359 --> 01:42:59,640
you get a little bit further away that as soon

2066
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:01,520
as you get to the point where things are accelerating,

2067
01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:02,640
they're all moving away.

2068
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:03,840
Speaker 1: It's fascinating.

2069
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:06,399
Speaker 2: And they're getting you know, there's an argument that they're

2070
01:43:06,399 --> 01:43:09,319
getting faster than the speed of light that eventually the

2071
01:43:09,399 --> 01:43:12,159
light never reaches you, these things will start to wink out.

2072
01:43:12,239 --> 01:43:15,439
Speaker 1: The calculations just are mind boggling. I just didn't I

2073
01:43:15,479 --> 01:43:19,399
didn't pay enough attention in class in college for that.

2074
01:43:19,439 --> 01:43:21,199
Speaker 2: Well, and a lot of this is new science. It

2075
01:43:21,239 --> 01:43:23,239
wasn't in class. You know, when we were in class,

2076
01:43:23,279 --> 01:43:31,000
there were nine planets. Yeah, wow, there's more, but I'm

2077
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:33,199
not going to do it. We've been doing almost more

2078
01:43:33,239 --> 01:43:34,079
than an hour and a half.

2079
01:43:34,159 --> 01:43:38,159
Speaker 1: Okay, but you know, we should pick this up somewhere

2080
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:42,079
on the twitters and on the Mastadons and on the

2081
01:43:42,119 --> 01:43:46,680
Blue Skies and maybe even on the facebooks. So I'm

2082
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:49,279
sure people have questions, Richard, and I'm hoping that they

2083
01:43:49,319 --> 01:43:50,159
will last them well.

2084
01:43:50,159 --> 01:43:52,279
Speaker 2: And if you write those comments, you write those comments,

2085
01:43:52,279 --> 01:43:53,159
I do answer them.

2086
01:43:53,319 --> 01:43:55,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, very good, Thank you, Richard.

2087
01:43:55,199 --> 01:43:57,079
Speaker 2: There you go, dude. Talk to you next week for

2088
01:43:57,239 --> 01:43:58,439
energy Energy.

2089
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:00,920
Speaker 1: It's going to be good, all right, free, It's time

2090
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:03,800
for a nice whiskey for sure, and job love. Then,

2091
01:44:03,960 --> 01:44:05,680
thank you, all right, We'll see you next time on

2092
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:28,399
dot nevrocks. Dot net Rocks is brought to you by

2093
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:33,199
Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio,

2094
01:44:33,279 --> 01:44:37,760
video and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut,

2095
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:42,800
and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

2096
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:45,119
Visit our website at d O T N E t

2097
01:44:45,359 --> 01:44:49,359
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2098
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:53,199
mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

2099
01:44:53,239 --> 01:44:56,640
back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand

2100
01:44:56,640 --> 01:44:59,319
and two. And make sure you check out our sponsors.

2101
01:44:59,439 --> 01:45:02,279
They keep us in business. Now go write some code.

2102
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,439
See you next time you got tread.

2103
01:45:05,279 --> 01:45:12,560
Speaker 2: Middle, Vans Dow, the mcc summons home.

2104
01:45:13,039 --> 01:45:15,319
Speaker 1: Then my Texes lie red