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Speaker 1: At the same time that we're all being worked by

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this system. And I don't necessarily think of this as

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a grand conspiracy. I just think of it as the

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way the market moves. But but I, you know, I

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really think everybody can feel it, right. You just can

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sense this dissatisfaction in people around that stuff. The algorithm

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is getting people down, and I feel like there's an

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allergic reaction that people are kind of developing to this

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stuff that hasn't fantasticized to regulation yet, but I feel

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like it's certainly there culturally, and like kids right now

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are the term that people are more using. For AI

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and for older people who over rely on it is clanker.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network, where

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you get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else

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to thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial

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Survival Network now more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork

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dot com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial

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Survival Network now more than ever.

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Speaker 3: Anyway. Welcome to Financial Survival Network. I'm your host, Carrie Lutz.

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With us now is Jacob Ward, author of recent book

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The Loop, How technology is creating a world without choices.

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Little ominous title there, Jacob, Like you've been a reporter,

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a journalist your entire life career, many different news organizations.

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I thought the whole purpose of technology was to increase

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our choices, to make our lives richer, to give us

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opportunities that we never had before.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny carry well, first of all, thanks

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so much for having me and I and I yeah,

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I you know that there there are these moments and

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I haven't I feel like I should coin a phrase

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for these moments where there's this there's this intermediary moment

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where technology does tend to do that right where it

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has in the past. On that I was thinking, you know,

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I was around for the early days of the Internet

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when it was still migrating from being an entirely academic,

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you know, plaything to something that anybody who the dial

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up connections could start to play around with. And that's

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that was the early days of bloggers and the rest

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of it. And suddenly you're in this world where you know,

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there really was this promise of like, wow, the information

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of the world at your fingertips. And I remember at

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that time thinking to myself, Man, when I have kids

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they're going to be in this position to just develop

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any taste they want in any form of entertainment. They're

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going to have, you know, really specific taste in you know,

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Kurdish folk music or you know, tango or who knows

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what they're going to be into, because they're going to

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have the choice any choice they possibly want. Right today.

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I just recently took a trip to Portugal, and when

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I go, it used to be that when I would

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go on trips, I like that I always want to

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bring back what kids are wearing for my kids, to

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sort of point it out to them, you know. And

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and I go to I'm on the subway in Lisbon,

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and I'm looking around, and every single one of those

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kids is wearing exactly the same thing as my kids

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wear back at home. And that's the TikTok effect, right

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because the trends are being consolidated and commercialized so quickly

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now that it's not cool to be into Kurtish folk music.

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You know, there's a there's a I'm sure a corner

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of the internet for everything, and I've talked to lots

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of people for whom it is a place to curate

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your own tastes. But if you go with the flow

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of modern technology and where it's pushing us. It doesn't

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let kids develop their own taste and stuff. It tries

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to shape their taste where wherever it can. And that's

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why I ended up writing The Loop. Was this worry

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I had that that there's huge behavioral science findings over

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the last fifty sixty years that are showing us just

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how shapable we are. And then at the same time,

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I was you know, this was pre transformer models, pre CHGBT.

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I was looking at all these companies who are looking

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using early machine learning models to try to spot the

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patterns and people's behavior and shape those patterns wherever they could.

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And I just thought, oh, there's a real problem coming here.

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And so I wrote the book and then and I

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published it, and literally nine months later chat gipt came out,

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and I've been spending the last few years just watching

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my thesis come to life basically, and I'll tell you

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carry is it's one thing, you know, you think you

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want to be right when you write a book, but

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this is an instance in which I wish I had

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not been as right.

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Speaker 3: So so interesting because I got like a line of

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t shirts that I just created using the AI, and

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my biggest hit is don't let the algorithm get you down.

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Speaker 1: Right, right? I mean, this is the thing is that

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at the same time that we're all being worked by

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this system. And I don't necessarily think of this as

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a grand conspiracy. I just think of it as the

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way the market moves. But but I, you know, I

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really think everybody can feel it, right. You just can

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sense this dissatisfaction in people around that stuff. The algorithm

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is getting people down, and I feel like there's an

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allergic reaction that people are kind of developing to this

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stuff that hasn't fantasticized to regulation yet, but I feel

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like it's certainly there culturally. And like kids right now,

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are they? The term that people are more more using

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for AI and for older people who over rely on

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it is clanker. So when when a when a piece

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of AI makes something people think is stupid, they're like, stupid, clanker,

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don't do that, you know what? Or or fake videos

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of somebody the guilty look at this clanker. Oh yeah,

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totally right. And so I feel like there's something that's

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something great in kids that they're seeing this clearly, you know,

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I love it.

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Speaker 3: I love it. Yeah, it's you know, kids don't do

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homework anymore.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And like the thing is, when you work with the AI,

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it adapts to you and speaks in your voice. There's

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virtually no way that it can be tected. And then

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you could put it through multiple ais called stacking, and

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no one will ever be able to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: So that's right, we did. Why you have teachers having

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to go back to nineteenth century techniques like having you

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write it out in long hand in class? Right, there's

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no there. They can't even take advantage of this technology

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in any sort of productive way. They have to just

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like go back to like lamplight kind of teaching techniques. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And you know, look, they stopped teaching cursive writing in

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school like twenty years ago, So what the heck is

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the point of all this?

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Speaker 1: Right? Right? Right?

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Speaker 3: They should have never done that, just like they shouldn't

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have allowed calculators into the classroom. But you know they

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didn't consultant.

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Speaker 1: Me, right, yeah, exactly. I know they didn't call either

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of us. I don't know why that was. Yeah, So

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I worry a lot about this, this you know, tendency

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that we've had. I was just on a I'm here's

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what your opinion is about this. This is on this

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podcast the other day with a couple of people who

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are former Uber and former Google people, and the former

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Uber guy god Nam Chris sad very angry at the

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whole notion that I was proposing, which is that we

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should have been more careful, and that we should in

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general be more careful. And you know, this notion for instance,

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that you know, before releasing a large language model, you

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should have had a large language model detector, right, you

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shouldn't have You shouldn't have put it out there until

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we could have reliably detected what's AI generated. And it's

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the kind of thing that he that made him crazy.

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He just was so upset at that notion. He said,

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you know, the whole point of innovation is to move fast,

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break things, and figure it out later. That's how we

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get great ideas, you know. And he's just absolutely you know,

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I really he was just fuming about this, this concept,

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and and I just kept trying to say, but shouldn't

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there be a limit here, shouldn't there be some consideration

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ahead of time, you know? And and he did not

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seem to feel that way. And I think that his

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opinion is not uncommon, and I wonder what you think

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about that.

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Speaker 3: You know, I used to have that same opinion. But

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the problem is every technology can be used for evil.

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It's going to be implied.

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Speaker 1: And what for you was the turning point when did

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you what technology or what moment made you reconsider that?

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Do you think?

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Speaker 3: You know? I think I think when I look at

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modern weaponry and it's got all these chips in it,

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and you know, it just really said, we're getting like

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too far ahead here. I feel like it's out of control.

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And now that the AI is designing the success of

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hardware generations, you see it in video. Their AI is

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designing those chips. No human can do it. And then Tesla,

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that company is completely AI generated. Their products are being generated,

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maybe not wholly, but more more by the AI than

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by humans. And you know, it's like the AI has

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to fake empathy. Oh yeah, humans either have it or

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they don't. But you know, it just seemed to me

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that but the toothpaste is out of the tube, whereas

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I like to say, the junie, the genie is out

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of the toothpaste tube and there's no putting it back.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I hear so many people say that,

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but I have to say, like Carrie, we're we're really

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good at putting toothpaste in tubes, like we're you know,

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we as a country we do that pretty well, you know,

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like we've You and I would be sitting here smoking

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cigarettes together if it weren't for you know, people thinking

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it through. And you know, people hate to hear that comparison.

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They think, oh, well, cigarettes is they're you know, very different.

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I think, I don't know, man, Like, definitely they were

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bad for us. They felt really good to use. They

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were you know, you you you literally couldn't go anywhere

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without smoking. It was in every movie, plant nice, airplanes, everywhere.

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And this is the thing that bothers me about how

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we think about about AI is is you know what

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I keep trying to remind people is like, it's not

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going to feel good to make the right choice around

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this technology. It's going to feel bad. It's going to

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feel like you don't want to do it, you know,

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to use this stuff less or any of that thing.

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And that's the thing with cigarettes. If you ask somebody

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in nineteen fifty seven, hey do you like smoking, they'd say,

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I love smoking. It feels great. You know, it's not

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until nineteen sixty five that they start to regulate against it,

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and you and you had to do it on the

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basis of what we could see empirically was happening to

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people's bodies. And in this case, I think we're going

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to see empirically what's happening to people's brains. And there's

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going to have to be a shift. But it's not

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going to come from people just saying no, I'm gonna

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quit smoking on my own, you know. Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 3: It's one of those things where the benefits are so

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great though, And I know that.

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Speaker 1: Is the argument that I keep hearing, right, the benefit

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the democratizing of superpowers is how people describe it, right that. Yeah,

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and I get it. I hear that, But I just

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feel like, I don't know. I had a piece up

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on the ripecurrent dot com about just give it to

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scientists for a while, Like, let's give it to people

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whose job it is to make good use of it.

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Let's not use it to make like porn girlfriends yet,

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you know, let's not use it to do this other

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crap yet, Let's just give it to like climate scientists,

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social scientists, Like, let's let them use it for five years,

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then the rest of us can get a license to

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do it. But I just think, man, we're moving too fast.

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Speaker 3: It seems to me, Yeah, that's the thing. We're going

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at such a speed. There isn't a feedback loop built

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into this to actually judge the impact on society, And

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is it something we should put limits on? And we're

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counting on the companies pedaling it actually put the limits

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on it. And that's like expecting big pharma to.

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Speaker 1: Actually want to cure you as the car companies are

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going to do the seat belts on their own. And Ralph, yeah,

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never had had to get involved. That's exactly right. I

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think that's right. I mean, you mentioned the title of

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my book, and it is a dark setup, right, the loop,

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how AI screening roll without choices. But the other part

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of that is and how to fight back. And I

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would argue that there are some things coming that I

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do feel like, even though this thing moves really fast,

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there is some We've talked already about the cultural allergy

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that I think we're seeing. I'm also seeing places in which,

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you know, I think one of the big things is

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going to be in this country. We're very good at

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regulating about death, and we're good at regulating about financial loss.

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We're not great at other forms of harm, right, and

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even addiction, we don't tend to regulate well, you know,

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we do okay, but not great. You know, we are

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legalizing gambling across the country on your phone, you know,

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like there's all kinds of places in which we really

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are happy to let people, you know, burn themselves on

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the fire. But I do think that more and more

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you're seeing in court places where companies are beginning to recognize, oh,

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we actually have some liability here, and at the very

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least they're starting to settle. So I've been covering a

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lot of these social casino games. These are simulators online

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that simulate casino games, blackjack and so forth, and people

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are increasingly beginning to sue because huge numbers of people

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are losing their life savings to these games. It costs

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money to play, but you can win no real money back,

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So it's the definition of a loser's game. And it's

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typically like elderly folks, a lot of elderly women that

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get ensnared by this stuff, right, And initially they would

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just get laughed out of court, But now class actions

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are starting to go forward that are succeeding at least

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in scoring big settlements, like half billion dollar settlements, because

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you can tell that these companies don't want to reveal

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the mechanism. They don't want to go through discovery.

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Speaker 3: And exactly in.

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Speaker 1: Early twenty twenty six, we're we're going to see two

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big court cases against the social media giants that I

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think are also going to show that you're going to

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get discovery. You know, this is going to have to

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You're gonna Zuckerberg and Massia are going to have to

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go on the stand. And I think we're going to

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start to see the mechanism by which companies are messing

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with our choices. And I like to believe that there

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is an era coming when it's life liberty, the pursuit

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of have and something about agency. You know that there's

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going to be something about being free to make your

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own choices. You know, there's a Duke law researcher named

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Nita Farahani who calls a cognitive liberty. And I like

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to think that we're on a path toward, at the

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very least winning legal judgments and some settlements on that basis.

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And I hope that can somehow change things.

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Speaker 3: And I'm going to take this opportunity to mention what

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I was alluding to before. But sovereignty is really what

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we're sovereignized south the world over there. That's right, that's right.

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And look my channel here on this site that you're

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going to be watching this. I don't want to name

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the name because then the algorithm will pin it and

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further suppress it. I've been suppressed for thirteen years because

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some professor once upon a time came up a list

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with a list of one hundred and forty sites that

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she determined where disinformation or misinformation. And finally I just

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said I'm not taking it anymore, and I sent off letters.

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Physical you want to get a response, don't send an email.

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Send a letter that somebody has to tear open and

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actually scan into the thing to read it. And they

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let one of my videos go. I guess I had

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on for thirteen years, twenty four interviews, never did more

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than one to nine thousand views. The one time they

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let it go, I got one hundred and fifty thousand views,

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twenty six hundred new subscribers, and the over one thousand

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dollars in revenue. So that's proof it's smoking gun. Because

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it happened within days after my letters. They immediately rolled

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back the algorithm, so I never had another one of

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those happen again. I got to prove because AI helped

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me prove exactly what they're doing. I have six AIS.

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So I'm starting an action down here in Florida because,

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like you said, put Zuckerberg there, put the Sundar there,

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and put to the other people there, because they're all

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doing it, even though now they say they're not doing

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it by viewpoint, politics, whatever. My big crime is that

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I'm into Bostrian economics, free market economics, and believe in

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protecting your wealth with gold and silver. That's what their

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own AI told me. That's my crime. And I feel

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like Kafka GPT because I've been accused of a crime

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that I don't know what it was, and I'm being

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punished for it without ever having had a trial or

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face any allegations.

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Speaker 1: Well, and this is going to be the big quote, Like,

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if what I'm describing comes to pass, it's going to

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be a huge controversy and a huge point of debate

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because there's for every instance in which you know somebody

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is clearly being manipulated by let's say, a big casino company.

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There's going to be these much squishier places, right, and

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there's going to be this gray area that we're going

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to have to sort out in which there's your instance,

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but then there's I don't know Andrew Tait, right, who

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I would argue, is is doing true damage to the

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minds of young people, right, young men? And so what like,

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how are we going to adjudicate that I don't know, right?

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And you look at at China, which has you know,

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one of the things that bothers me the most about

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the rhetoric that we follow here in this country about

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China and needing to compete with them in AI is

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that somehow they don't regulate, which is crazy to me.

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That's the most regulated. It's crazy how much they regulate.

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Like if you are the CEO of an AI company

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and the AI is used to make fun of Jijinping,

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you the CEBO are personally liable for that. It's not

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even you know, not only do they not have a

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section two thirty that BBO goes to jail, right, So

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to my mind, like the regulation is enormous on the

341
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other and I think so I've every in my weaker moments,

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I think, well, maybe that's what kind of the thing

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we need, is that kind of liability. But then I

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also go well yeah, But then at the same time

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they you know, something like deep seek. The AI model

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that they made im cheap there has to be has

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to conform to communist central authority teachings, right, socialist teachings,

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and so what do you I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: How to how to sort of Yeah, that's boomed for

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that reason because it AI has to function on truth,

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and when you give it these conflicting missions, it starts hallucinating.

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And yeah, try looking up Tieneman Square and they'll have

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a picture with a May Day parade there. It's not

354
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going to mention anything about the ten one thousand people.

355
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It just slaughtered back whenever that was I don't remember,

356
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so long ago in the eighties, and you know the

357
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revisionist history and all that. So it's definitely problematical. But

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on the other hand, so our awareness has been outstripped

359
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by the ability of bad actors to take advantage of

360
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our biomechanical, biochemical makeup. Is what we're talking about, is

361
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the dopamine loop dating apps do you think dating apps

362
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really want you to find your true love, right, No,

363
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they want you to become just like Big Pharma. They

364
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want you to become a lifetime subscriber. And I wrote

365
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a book, let's say you know, under a pseudonym Johnny Depp,

366
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The Complete Guide to Dating App Hacks. And basically it's like,

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originally the algorithm, I used to work for the algorithm,

368
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but now the algorithm works for me. I don't pay

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for any of them, and it keeps sending me and

370
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sending me and sending me. So you can manipulate it,

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but you got to be aware that it's happening. These

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people like who become compulsive online gamblers. It's just like drugs, right,

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It's just like crack. It's the dopamine loop. And you know,

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when we were growing up, we didn't know anything about neurotransmitters,

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serotonin and all the others.

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Speaker 1: We did know to prosecute drug dealers, yeah, you know,

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but we didn't know the mechanism as well as we do.

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Speaker 3: Now that's right, we prosecute them, but then we have

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three letter agencies that are among the biggest smugglers of

380
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drugs in the world. So it's complicated. So in any event,

381
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when we're moving ahead, you and I have this conversation.

382
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In five years, neither of us are doing any work

383
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anymore because the bots are all doing it in our names.

384
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Where are we going to be here, Jacob?

385
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Speaker 1: I know, well, this is the big question, right, I mean,

386
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we're you know, there's this quote from Dario Amedai, the

387
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found of Anthropic, in which he says that we're going

388
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to you know that he says you should He literally

389
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says out loud, you should be worried about what we

390
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are making. He told Axios, and he said, you know,

391
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we could cure cancer, we could create enormous wealth, and

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twenty percent of people could be out of work, and

393
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you know, you know, and I know you think that's

394
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a conservativestment, right, it could be fastly more than that.

395
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I mean. At the same time, you've got Sam Altman

396
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saying on a podcast last year that he and his

397
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tech CEO buddies have a bet going about who's going

398
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to have the first billion dollar one person company, right,

399
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And that that's another one where I just think, well,

400
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who's going to work for? How are we going to

401
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feed our families? If if a single person controls that

402
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percentage of the GDP, And so I really do think

403
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we're in a place where we're gonna have to get

404
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to a We're very quickly gonna have to get to

405
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a place where we're gonna have to reassess the value

406
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of human beings because it used to be that you

407
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assessed them on their productivity, you know, and their contribution

408
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to GDP, And now I really don't know. I think

409
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Andrew Yang turns out to have been kind of ahead

410
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of his time on what he was thinking about.

411
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Speaker 3: Yeah, they say, how we're it's calm, there, it's coming.

412
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There's no choice. They either have to start a ward

413
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to get rid of a bunch of people like eighty percent,

414
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or they're gonna have to pay them. But on the

415
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other hand, Elon Musk warned about it too, like five

416
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six years ago. You don't hear him talking about it anymore.

417
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That AI was the greatest threat to humanity around, and

418
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you know that was really before chat GPT came out

419
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before the others. I think it's a challenge. But on

420
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the other hand, the current economic system has created huge injustices, imbalances,

421
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incorrect valuations between relative work. Who can say that the

422
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guy who's sweeping the airport bathroom is not as valuable

423
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as some performer on stage. It's getting paid tens of millions.

424
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Speaker 1: I mean teachers, right, like a preschool teacher. Why aren't

425
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they making the same as a doctor. It makes no

426
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It is absolutely outrageous, right, and yet you know we're

427
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going to enter this way. You know, for me, I

428
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,799
just worry about the you know, I'm trying to focus

429
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:42,119
on like one day at a time. I'm one of

430
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,000
the things that I think is coming. For instance, I

431
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,079
had somebody, a very smart thinker about this named Molly

432
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,519
Kinder who's at the Brookings Is Dude. She's been talking

433
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a lot about how she worries that AI is going

434
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:57,480
to be he's going to do to non college educated

435
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:03,559
women what offshore were outsourcing offshore did to non college

436
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,880
uscated men in the United States, because she says that,

437
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,640
you know, women with a high school education, if they

438
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,759
needed a secure middle class existence, then they got into

439
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:14,079
clerical work, bookkeeping admin.

440
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Speaker 3: All of that is eelephone operator.

441
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Speaker 1: Telephone out right exactly, that's all gone. And the wiping

442
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,440
out of those jobs, which is absolutely what these folks

443
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,759
are all on a path to do, is a huge problem.

444
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I mean in some countries, right, India has outlawed self

445
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driving vehicles because a huge percentage of men in that

446
00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:40,119
country make their living as professional drivers. Right, they recognize,

447
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,039
like there is a really you know, even though this

448
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,920
thing could work, we aren't going to let it go

449
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,200
forward because of the destabilizing effect that's going to have

450
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on this country. And we just aren't there yet, I

451
00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:50,519
think as.

452
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Speaker 3: A notion, and you mentioned driving, the largest job category

453
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,480
in the United States is driver over ten million people,

454
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and that's truck drivers, limo drivers.

455
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Speaker 1: I don't think that wow wow, Right, So.

456
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 3: That's ten million people. And I'm telling you maybe six

457
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,279
months to a year away from it, right, right, maybe

458
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:16,000
a little more. It's happening.

459
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: And the incredible I mean, as researcher after researcher will

460
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:25,480
tell you, there is no more dangerous thing than a

461
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:30,279
young unemployed generation. Like there's you know, seen especially of men, right,

462
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:33,720
they're just it is an incredibly dangerous and destructive force.

463
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're back to like clockwork orange and nineteen

464
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,559
eighty four and uh, I know what was the other one.

465
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,039
I can't even remember, right exactly, I mean, but they are.

466
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Speaker 1: But there are these examples in which people really have

467
00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:51,519
taken a forward looking view and said, Okay, we're going

468
00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:54,160
to change this around. You know, Germany has an incredible

469
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,680
apprenticeship program for young people to get into chips and

470
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the rest of it. You know, they they you know,

471
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:01,799
there's a reason that. I mean, if you look at

472
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,160
like the soccer leagues in those countries, you know they

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00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:08,440
the development process, the developmentally, I mean, the reason that

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00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,160
a country of only eighty million people is like a

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00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:15,960
world conquering dominant force in soccer. One of the reasons

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00:27:16,079 --> 00:27:19,680
is the every town has a development league, you know,

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00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:24,200
that is funded by you know, a common pool of money.

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00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,200
And we just I think in this country, this idea

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00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,680
that like bootstraps are going to get us there. We're

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00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,559
about to find out that is not true and we're

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00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:32,839
going to need a whole other development system. And I

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00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:34,319
don't know what it's going to be, but if we

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00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,400
don't get back into a world of apprenticeships and residencies

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00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:41,240
or whatever we want to call it, yeah, I think

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00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,880
we're gonna be in real trouble, real quick.

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00:27:43,559 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: Agreed. Agreed. So again, the book is the Loop. How

487
00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:52,759
AI is creating a world without choices and how to

488
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:56,640
fight back it's on Amazon. I just ordered a copy

489
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,559
of it myself, just to let you know. It's on

490
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,400
sale thirty seven percent off at least on my thing here. Sorry,

491
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,440
you're not going to get your fair royalty.

492
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:07,559
Speaker 1: I's all right, I'll take you all of sixty one.

493
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,400
I don't even feel like you have to read it.

494
00:28:09,519 --> 00:28:10,640
Just buy it, that's all I care.

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00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,799
Speaker 3: Hey, well that's it. It'll look great on your bookshelf.

496
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, There you go.

497
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:17,319
Speaker 3: I try to read every book I buy because I

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00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:23,960
feel like I'm into optimization, being a good steward of assets,

499
00:28:24,279 --> 00:28:28,079
not wasting. Well, it's impossible to keep up with it

500
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,440
every with everything, and of course your website here, we

501
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,720
would be remiss if we didn't mention that is theripcurrent

502
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,599
dot com see all the latest episodes. And if you

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00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,960
got a question for Jacob myself klatcarrieluts dot com our

504
00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:48,240
site Financial Survival Network dot com, Carrie LUTs dot com.

505
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,480
That both take you to my substack, Jacob bet a pleasure.

506
00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:54,200
I'm really happy we connected to this again.

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00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: Cheers, Thanks Garry, take.

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00:28:55,599 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: Care, Thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network

509
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:04,039
your solution to today's trying times For the latest, go

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to Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network now more

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than ever