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Speaker 1: The countdown is on to fight time.

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Speaker 2: This is Big Fight Weekend now here is your host,

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DJ Leaves.

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Speaker 1: Believe it or not.

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Speaker 2: It is the first weekend in December, the final month

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of the year, and we've got action all over the

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place from Phoenix to Puerto Rico and even Rayfield has

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down on the list a Bulgarian heavyweight. About that we

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shall discuss. It is the Big Fight Weekend preview podcast.

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Speaker 1: Hello, I am the somewhat competent.

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Speaker 2: Host, TJ Reeves. He is our insider. Fight Freaks United

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is the substack and the newsletter. Hello Big Dan Rayfield,

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who is very anxious to not only preview these fights

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but also talk Hall of Fame Hall of Fame announcement

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already for this week. How you feeling as we head

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into the weekend? I cannot believe. I really can't believe

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that we're almost to the end of twenty twenty four.

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But here we go with the final month of the year.

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Speaker 1: TJ.

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Speaker 3: It happens every year, so what's sort to be surprised about?

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Speaker 2: This is true, It's just a matter of how fast

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we've kind of gone along.

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Speaker 1: With this year. That's true. They said it wouldn't last.

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Speaker 2: Here we are here. We are about to conclude a

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third year together. Thank you for finding us. Make sure

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you rate us in review us and a lot of

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you have been doing that. Keep the ratings and reviews coming,

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the five star reviews. Help take thirty seconds and do that.

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That helps with the algorithms with everybody finding us, and

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also follow and subscribe. We preview going into the weekend,

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usually Thursday night into Friday. We recap Sunday and a Monday,

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depending on schedules, etc. On how we get it done.

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We've we've done a diligent job of that through the

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first eleven months of the year and really the three

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years that we've been doing this.

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Speaker 1: So we keep it up. If you like it, say so.

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We love that. And by the way, again give Dan.

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Speaker 2: A subscription if you want the I mean tremendous stuff

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I got to say on the substack about the Hall

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of Fame and the end depth stuff I was reading

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earlier today. Your Show and Tell is always tremendous with

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your stuff besides social media, I love it and we

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do nostalgia on these podcasts. So again, subscribe to his

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Fight Freaks Unite substack. Am I done with the commercials?

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Speaker 1: I think I am.

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Speaker 2: We're let's get let's get into it where we've got

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several interesting main event fights, really co mains event, if

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you will, for the top rank show in Phoenix. All right,

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you have previewed thoroughly through the voice of Emanuel Navarate,

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this fight with Oscar Valdez. It is a rematch, it's

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the WBO Junior Lightweight Championship, it's the top rank main

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event in Phoenix. Here we go with fight weekend thoughts

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on what's about to unfold here, we've been waiting a

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little bit for this. It's now about it's now about

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to happen.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think what's going to unfold is violence. It's

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gonna be violence. I mean, that's the end of the story.

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Both of these fighters, of Valdez and Navarette, I've been

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in bombs away kind of fights. Our first fight was

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that kind of fight. Now, I've actually seen comments TJ

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from folks who say, well, I really want to see

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the rematch. I don't really need to see the rematch.

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And I understand that the first fight, although a really good,

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exciting fight, and maybe it didn't live up to being

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the fight of the year. Maybe it didn't live up

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to Barrera Morales, which is how was sort of positioned

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and promoted, and both Baron Morales was there, were there

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to be a part of the promotion. But it was

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still one hell of a fight, and yeah, okay, and

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Matt never Ate was the clear winner. There's nobody disputing that.

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Even oscar val Does doesn't dispute that right. But the

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reason it's happening is because never Ata, he moved up

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to the one hundred and thirty five pound weight class,

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got whipped by Denny's Barentchik in an attempt to win

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the title of the WBO in that weight division and

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try to become a four time or rather a four

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division world champion.

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Speaker 2: And we should add look slow and out of the

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shape terrible, and I remember saying to you he should

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go back down to one thirty get in shape.

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Speaker 3: But the point of it is, though, when he took

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the opportunity to try to go for the thirty five

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pound title, at that point that title was not active

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and so therefore the WBO allowed Oscarvella that does to

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fight for the interim title. He looked really sharp and

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good against Liam Wilson in a knockout victory that took

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place in March. Now, remember Liam Wilson had given a

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really hard, tough fight, you know against Neverette that was

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like no joke of a fight.

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Speaker 1: I mean he really needing knocking him down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So it was if the guy that's got the

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belt is moving up, having the guy that's been a

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title holder in two weight divisions against the guy that

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gave the champ a lot of troubles and Valdez who

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gave him a tough fight in the first fight. They

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matched up for the interim title, and I think most

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people figured, you know what, win or lose, because Emmanuel

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never write he's always got the issues making weight that

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whatever happened, he was going to stay one hundred and

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thirty five pounds. He was the favorite against Brentchick. He

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lost a fight, and he decided, and I think the

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right decision. He made the right decision to come back

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to one thirty where he's probably better served. He also

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can make a lot more money with the title in

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that weight class, and he ken just fighting a regular

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contender at one thirty five without a title fight, and

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so it was the mandated fight. One thing I do

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like about the WBO is when they do do an

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interim title, which is not too often, but they try

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to clean it up, you know, as soon as possible.

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So all things considered, this is a very good rematch.

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Two Mexican warriors. Two guys are gonna come to fight.

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Can't imagine is being a bad fight. Uh, And we're

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gonna find out what Naverette can do well. Listen, He's

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not had the best to run recently. He's got a

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loss to Barentchik, who was you know, a much better

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than him on that night he had to draw against

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contests out in the previous fight.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And then before that was the Valdez fight. So he's

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oh one and one in his previous two and Oscar Valdez,

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although he did lose the fight against uh Navarette the

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first time around, he looked really good in the Leam

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Wilson fights. So I think this is a good fight.

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I mean, I wouldn't sh be shocked if if Valdez

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won the fight, and I wouldn't be shocked if Naverette

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won the fight. But I know it will be a

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good fight to watch and the winner, obviously he's gonna

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have this title and is going to be a great

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in a great position and you know, has a chance

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I think in the future to maybe match up with

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the winner of the undercard fight, which we'll talk about.

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But I'm excited. I mean, look, I think it's a

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good matchup. But I'm actually for me, this is the

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action wise, probably the best fight of the weekend.

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Speaker 2: And I always enjoy navaraate in the Baranchiic fight. Again,

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he looks slow to me et cetera, But.

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Speaker 3: I who's a scientistic kind of mover box.

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Speaker 2: But I like Navarate throwing bombs. I like keep throwing

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bombs from different angles. Let's see if we get back

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to that. The only thing and I don't want to

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go down a rabbit hole. We don't know this, and

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we rarely say this, but he's had problems previously, by

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his own admission, making one thirty. I wonder as we

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go Thursday night into Friday, are we going to have

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any weight drama here with him. We don't know that,

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hopefully not reporting that. I'm just speculating that. You wonder

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how hard it was for him to make one thirty.

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I guess we're about to find out.

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Speaker 1: Who knows?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, even when he's had the struggles,

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he has still made it, and for Oscar Valdez it

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shouldn't be any problem. He's he's in the perfect weight

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class for his size. So look, I expect, I expect

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a good, rugget, tough fight like we simply like we

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typically will get between we got the first time, and

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like we've seen in typical fights involving either Oscar Valdez

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or a angel never at te they match up very

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well together. And you know, I have to admit, I mean,

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I can't help but be a fan of Oscar Valdezz

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for a long time. He's as exciting a fighter, as

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honest a fighter as you'll see in terms of the

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way he goes about his business in the ring, just

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trying to just push forward and win under any circumstances.

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I've seen him with some brutal injury in the fight

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against Scott Quigg that I covered. That was an amazing situation,

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brought the bust of jaw. You know, tremendous amateur, two

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time Mexican Olympian, being a good world champion in two

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way classes and in terms of outside the ring, just

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an extremely likable person his whole team and family. Just

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a good dude.

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Speaker 2: And again hear more from Navarat through the interpreter. You

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talked with him one on one. That's on the pod

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feed immediately before this podcast. If they want to hear

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a few minutes of Emanuel navaraate chilled as you said.

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He was in a reclining position when you were talking

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to him a little bit there, but it was good stuff,

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all right. So immediately preceding that fight is the cofeature

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or if not, the co main event, and it is

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the featherweight world title rematch for Rafael Espinosa who upset

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Roba C. Ramirez. What a good distance back. Now they

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finally get together for various reasons. This is taken a

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little bit, but they now get together.

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Speaker 1: For the rematch.

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Speaker 2: When Ramirez was kind of a rising star for Top

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Rank who had garnered a world title, made a defense

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and then Esponosa upset him. Rematch time, Big Dan and

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Phoenix on this card Saturday Night, give me a little more.

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, without having to sell it because

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no one's paying me to do so. I wish they

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were clearly this could be the main event. I mean,

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this is a great way for Top Rank to end

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its year in terms of United States fights. They still

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involved with the Tyson Fury fight a new sick. They're

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still obviously involved with the in a way fight that

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takes place Christmas Eve, but in terms of their their

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domestic slate of fights on ESPN, this is the finale

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of the year and for them to offer these two

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rematch title fights is excellent because Ramirez against Espinoza certainly

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could have could be the main event. The way it was, frankly,

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the first time that they had a fight against each other,

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that was one year ago when they fought the first

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time around, it was almost one year to the day.

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That took place on December ninth of twenty twenty three.

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This will be on December seventh, twenty twenty four. They

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originally contemplated doing a rematch in the summer, but the

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way it was explained to me by top Rank was

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it Espino's on his team. They wanted to have an

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interim fight. They wanted to make one defense before they

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agreed to do their rematch. So he fought and defeated

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Sergio Chirino in the fourth round back in June, in

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the same month you had Robas Ramirez. He got his

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so called tune up fight. He won that fight, and

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now it took a little while to get the rematch

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all squared away, but it's done and it will take

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place on Saturday. And you know, we have no idea

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what to expect in this fight, Like we may not

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know who's gonna win Valdez agan'st naverette, but we kind

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of know the styles of what's going to happen. It's

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gonna be probably an action tack fight. Not to say

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that this won't be that, but I just have no

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way to put my finger on this fight. And the

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one thing about it is in terms of Robasi Ramirez,

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a very talented fighter, two time gold medal winner for Cuba.

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You know, one of the biggest accolades he had or

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you know, coming out of the amateurs with all those

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accolades that people thought stardom. You know, lost his pro

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debut in a big upset and obviously lost the fight

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against Espinosa. But even in fights he has won besides

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when he won the title, he's been very inconsistent. It's

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been maddening. You'll see him fight one time he looks

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absolutely sensational, like he did against the Isaac Dogbay for example,

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where when he went to Japan and defended the title

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against Shimizu back you know, a July of twenty three.

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And then there's other times where he just looks extremely

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inconsistently look great against Abraham Nova, other fights he just

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sort of looked he wins, but he looks like he's

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going through the motion. So I don't know which guy's

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showing up. And even though he fought his ass off

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against Espinoza in a tremendous battle and ended up being

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a majority decision one of the most dramatic, exciting fights

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of twenty twenty three, both fighters were on the deck.

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Speaker 2: Espinosa was in big trouble early in the fight and

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you might have thought it was going to get stuck.

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He showed a ton of heart and came back and

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dropped Robas Ramirez.

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Speaker 3: Well, that was the drama of the fight, was that

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knockdown in round twelve. So it turned out to me

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majority decision. Without that knockdown, you know, you know, he

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probably he loses the fight, or at least maybe it

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turns out to be a drum right in any event,

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he he uh, he scored that very dramatic knockdown. He

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ends up winning the world title in a big upset.

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Now he was twenty five and oh going into the fight,

255
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But all twenty five and oh's are not created equal.

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I mean, he was as unknown and as obscure as

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there can be. Now that doesn't necessarily mean you're no good,

258
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just means that nobody had ever saw him before, if

259
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against anybody of any consequence. They hand picked him, you know,

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he was with ZANDF for promotions. They went down the

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they found a guy that was, you know, in the

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lower part of the ratings, and they signed him up.

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What was supposed to be, you know, a pretty straightforward

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kind of victory against a hard charging kind of guy,

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but he totally he totally turned the tables. And I mean,

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for my money, in that particular fight, you have maybe

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the upset of the year. You have one of the

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fights of the year. You have like the emergence of

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the year in terms of Espinosa making a name for himself.

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And now we go into the rematch and the one

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thing that is so stark about Espinosa is for a

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guy that fights in the one hundred and twenty six

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pound way class, dude, he's six foot one. I mean,

274
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he's a monster. He's got longer each long arms, he's tall,

275
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and you know he towers over not just against so

276
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you know, he looked good against Cherino in the title defense.

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He wiped him out in the fourth round and dropped

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him like three times. But you know, it was pretty

279
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,120
clear that Chrino was not a very h skillful fight

280
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or really had too much confidence going on. But Ramirez

281
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a different ballgame. Now we'll see if for Robac, if

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he learned his lesson from the first fight, if he

283
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can make adjustments to that height and to the unusual

284
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angles that that he was throwing with from the you know,

285
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because Espinosa has got such long arms. But again, who

286
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knows this one? To me? I think both these fights

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are toss up fights where either guy can win for

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a variety of reasons. We talked about, Yeah, I mean

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love well, it's going to make it's going to make

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our bet US show on Friday pretty interesting.

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Speaker 2: Very nice plug Warnstern time on the bet US platforms

292
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because I agree with you and it's just kind of interesting.

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Speaker 1: And then we'll move on.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned about Ramirez being you know, hot and cold

295
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good one night. You've often talked about how he lost

296
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the opening fight of his career in a four round

297
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fight which was shocking what she did.

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Speaker 3: What she did Avenge by the way, correct.

299
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Speaker 1: But that still was surprising.

300
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Speaker 2: But the first fight with Espinoza was kind of a

301
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microcosm of his career in that he was very good

302
00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:33,399
early in the fight and then what the heck happened

303
00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:35,360
in the back half of the fight, including getting knocked down.

304
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So there's some unknown here, uh, with him and how

305
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,799
he's going to handle a big guy fighting at one

306
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twenty six, a big in terms of height and reach

307
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at one twenty six, and uh, let's see what happens.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's a really good double header. I'm

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j one of the highest compliments that I can pay

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to a boxing card is why I say to you,

311
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this can easily have been like an HBO double header.

312
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That's what this could be. That's the type of fight

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it was.

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Speaker 2: And this in this day and age, in this day

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and age, it could easily be on pay per view

316
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and it's not, and we're happy for that.

317
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Speaker 3: When Top Rank was doing a business for many years

318
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,519
with HBO, this was exactly the kind of doubleheader they

319
00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:17,440
would serve up. And so to me, two very interesting fights,

320
00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:20,639
two very interesting rematches, two fights where I really couldn't

321
00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:23,000
tell you for sure who wins the fight, and as

322
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,480
I mentioned, not completely out of the realm of possibility,

323
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,120
and that fact depending on if you know who the

324
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,159
winners are. I think there's a very good chance at

325
00:14:30,159 --> 00:14:32,759
the winners of these two bouts at some point in

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twenty twenty five fight each other, where the winner of

327
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the fifth featherweight fight fights the winner of the thirty

328
00:14:37,799 --> 00:14:39,360
pound fight for their their title.

329
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Speaker 2: And by the way, good chance it's going to be

330
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electric in the building because Phoenix is a great Mexican

331
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American fight town with the Mexican fighters, and three of

332
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,879
the four have ties as Mexicans in this so it

333
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,759
should be loud and energy. From that, Let's see, let's

334
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see what it looks like for the teacher.

335
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Speaker 3: It starts late, so I'm gonna have to be up

336
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,960
late because the main event, the main car rather the

337
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,960
first two fights, the undercard co feature with Robasi and

338
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,879
Espinosa doesn't come on the air till ten thirty PM.

339
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Speaker 2: So you understand the college football ESPN partnership, and that's

340
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,159
the recedence, and they're trying to push it a little back,

341
00:15:17,159 --> 00:15:20,559
but still get some coffee, Big Dan, get some caffeine.

342
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Speaker 1: I'm getting old, so I understand that hour right right now.

343
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Speaker 2: I get ridiculed by my sixteen year old twins right now,

344
00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:28,799
and I'm like, your father's not sixteen, your father's not

345
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,120
twenty six anymore on run around doing this stuff.

346
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Speaker 3: That said, if my biggest complaint is it's at ten

347
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,639
thirty instead of maybe an hour earlier, I'm okay with that.

348
00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:38,440
Speaker 1: At you, oh you were always up for boxing after dark.

349
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:39,840
That was not on at.

350
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Speaker 3: Six as a long time ago.

351
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Speaker 1: No, it was a while ago, all right, But wait,

352
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:43,960
there's more.

353
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Speaker 2: There's another world title fight, and this one on to

354
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,240
Zone the Matchroom de Zone show in San Juan, Puerto Rico,

355
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:53,360
where Australian Liam Parro. When last we saw him in

356
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,200
Puerto Rico, he pulled the upset of Supero Mattias. Why

357
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,679
not go to Puerto Rico and defend against Richardson Hitchins.

358
00:15:59,799 --> 00:16:02,440
I'm half jokingly saying this. We'll get into the nuts

359
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,679
and bolt of the fight, but give me this one

360
00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:07,919
more time. On why this is in Puerto Rico and

361
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,720
not say in the United States. Aparo has been saying

362
00:16:10,759 --> 00:16:13,480
all week he wants to fight in Australia. Apparently there

363
00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:16,799
wasn't enough, as you like to say, commercial value in

364
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,240
it being there. But Puerto Rico it's interesting, but go ahead.

365
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:21,759
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, one thing about it is

366
00:16:21,799 --> 00:16:24,639
they got a very heavily Puerto Rican flavored undercard, so

367
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that will drop in a lot of the local folks

368
00:16:27,159 --> 00:16:29,279
that are gonna come out to see the show in

369
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,440
San Juan and Puerto Rican fighters or otherwise. You know,

370
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,440
there's a great boxing culture in Puerto Rico. It's a

371
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,799
wonderful place to go to. Five been to Puerto Rico

372
00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:40,679
for boxing part covered Miguel Cota fight. They're great fans,

373
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,480
great hospitality, very excited folks. So yeah, okay, fine, the

374
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,200
main event may not be Puerto Rican related, but the

375
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,919
Puerto Ricans they at least know Parro to some degree

376
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,360
because he did upset their hometown guy Mattias, who is

377
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,279
Puerto Rican when they fought to fight back in June

378
00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,960
he won the title. So I think it's a map

379
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,480
that Matchroom Boxing has a good relationship with the folks

380
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,039
from Universal Promotions in Puerto Rico, and they decided this

381
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,319
was a fight to go. They weren't going to go

382
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,680
to Australia for different reasons. Hitchins is an American fighter

383
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,839
from New York has by background fought for the Haitian

384
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,359
Olympic team, but there was really no marketplace, I don't

385
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,079
think for this fight in the United States anyway, and

386
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,440
so they'll they'll put on a good card with a

387
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,480
bunch of Puerto Rican undercard fights and have the title fight. No,

388
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,240
for my purposes, there's gonna watch it on his own.

389
00:17:28,799 --> 00:17:30,839
It's to me, it's irrelevant if the fights in Puerto Rico,

390
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,480
or it's in New York, if it's in California or

391
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,920
wherever it is, or Australia. But the main thing about

392
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,039
the fight is it is it should be a competitive fight.

393
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,160
I think it's a mandatory defense. Richardson Hitchin earned the

394
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,440
fight in the eliminator, where he beat Gustavo Lemos in

395
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,200
his last fight back in April at one. Obviously we

396
00:17:48,279 --> 00:17:50,240
know Lemos went down to one thirty five in his

397
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,880
next fight and got destroyed by Keyshawn Davis. But nonetheless, Hitchins,

398
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,400
who was an Olympian, as I mentioned, undefeated, spent the

399
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,680
first several years of his career fighting under the Mayweather

400
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,519
Promotions banner. They were not keeping him busy enough. He

401
00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:05,119
ended up signing with Matt Troum. They brought him along.

402
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,160
He's got some solid wins. He blew away he should

403
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:09,880
have been a knockout, but they didn't stop the fight.

404
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,880
But he won literally one hundred to eighty eight and

405
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,640
all three scorecards against John Bowser, who was undefeated and

406
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,480
some considered I'm a prospect. He whipped up on by

407
00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:21,880
a shutout on two scorecards and gave up one round

408
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,039
on a third against the well traveled former title challenger

409
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,319
Jose Zapeta. Then he had to win clear but close

410
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,359
against Lamos, and now he gets the title fight against Liamparo.

411
00:18:32,559 --> 00:18:35,000
They were talking about doing interim fights and then it

412
00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:36,799
got to a certain point they're like, screw it, let's

413
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:39,319
just go right to the mandatory. And I'm glad they

414
00:18:39,319 --> 00:18:42,079
did that. No reason to build that fight up. But Parro,

415
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,200
who's twenty five and zero with fifteen knockouts from Australia

416
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,720
in his prime, comes off his biggest win by far

417
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,359
and away against Sabrill Matias. But he showed something in

418
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,039
the previous fight where he got the knockout in the

419
00:18:54,039 --> 00:18:57,240
six round against Montana Love. In the fight before that,

420
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,440
you had two really unknown undefeated Australians. He was taken

421
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,200
on his country and Brock Jarvis, a toss up fight

422
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,799
because no one knew either guy knocked him in the

423
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:05,319
first round.

424
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,160
Speaker 2: And by the way, I can add that I actually

425
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,839
saw Liam Paro in person on the Jake Paul Tyron

426
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,759
Woodley undercart in Tampa, and I didn't really you had

427
00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:15,839
educated me a little bit about him.

428
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 1: I didn't know a lot about him, and he almost

429
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:18,200
lost that night.

430
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 2: He got a split decision in Tampa that night and

431
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,000
didn't look I watched some of the fight. I gotta

432
00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:26,319
confess I did not intently watch the whole fight, but

433
00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:29,599
he didn't look great that night. But man, he dominated

434
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,640
Mattias the Arena sat Stone silent. The last time we

435
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,200
saw Paro put it on him.

436
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,440
Speaker 3: The fight that you mentioned on the under part of

437
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,440
that Jake Paul fight when twenty twenty one, and around

438
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,960
this time in twenty twenty one, so three years ago,

439
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,759
he got knocked down in the first round. He was

440
00:19:43,759 --> 00:19:46,240
taken on the undefeated Yomar Alamo, who has been in

441
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,640
the ring with some good opponents. So to me, and

442
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,079
I'm not I don't disrespect Limparo. Anybody that go out

443
00:19:52,079 --> 00:19:54,160
there and beat Sabrial Mattias the way he did and

444
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,440
score a big knockout like he did against Montana Love,

445
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,839
you got to give him some credit. But I don't know.

446
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,039
I kind of feel like he's he's maybe a little overrated.

447
00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:04,440
And I don't mean to say that like to be

448
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,759
a dick about it. I just like, like, if you

449
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,519
if you're gonna get the props, let me see you

450
00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:11,880
do it again. Ok, you got. I can't I can't

451
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:12,960
take that away from you, the.

452
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: Validation you're looking for. The validation.

453
00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 3: But if you go out there and you beat a

454
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,519
very solid, good quality amateur, outstanding boxer with some dog

455
00:20:21,559 --> 00:20:24,839
in him in a Richardson Hitchins, like, I'll actually that'll

456
00:20:24,839 --> 00:20:26,759
be impressed. Not that he's looking to impress Dan Rayfil.

457
00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:28,519
He didn't give a fuck about me. I'm just saying

458
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,759
from my perspective, Uh, you know, let me see, let

459
00:20:31,759 --> 00:20:34,839
me see it again, so like we'll see if Richard's

460
00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:37,400
and Hitchin it has got the skills and is you know,

461
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,519
I think fearless in that sense, like if he can

462
00:20:39,559 --> 00:20:43,319
take care of it. One thing a doubt Borrow is

463
00:20:43,559 --> 00:20:45,039
if you if you went to Puerto Rican and beat

464
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:47,079
the Puerto Rican. He's not worried about going to Porto

465
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:48,720
Rican to fight the New Yorker. That's you know, that's

466
00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:49,440
that's old hat.

467
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: I mean.

468
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 3: Although that said, I'm assuming given the fact that that

469
00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:56,200
he's American and he comes from another his you know,

470
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,720
his family's from Haiti. The other guys from Australian beat

471
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,160
the hometown guy. I gotta figured that Hitchens is gonna

472
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,920
probably be the crowd favorite anyway. But Paros certainly doesn't

473
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,599
seem to give it dam because he's been traveling, you know,

474
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,480
for these fights. He's only had one fight in Australia

475
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,400
in the last few years. His last fight in Australia

476
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,480
was at Jarvis Fight. Before that, you know, since twenty one,

477
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,119
you know, his fights have been either in Puerto Rico

478
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,799
or in the United States. So look, it's it's a

479
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:23,079
it's a good title fight. Even though the two guys

480
00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:26,759
are largely among the even the diehards, they're they're kind

481
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:29,119
of anonymous, they're not big names. It's not like a

482
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,799
sexy kind of fight. But if you follow it closely,

483
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:35,440
you know it's a nice matchup. It's a mandatory that

484
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,519
that it feels like Hitchens has actually earned the shot,

485
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,480
you know, by beating the types of guys that he

486
00:21:39,519 --> 00:21:42,240
has in recent fights. And we'll see. And the thing

487
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,880
about it also is this the guy that wins. He's

488
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,319
in business. I mean Mattroom Boxing. You know, they work

489
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,599
with Jack Catterall in the way class, you know, even

490
00:21:50,599 --> 00:21:52,559
though they don't promote him currently, but they've got a

491
00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:55,400
relationship with them and Devin Haney, Like, there's gonna be

492
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,759
things that you can maybe do, you know, in a

493
00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:00,240
good way with the winner. So it's important for the

494
00:22:00,279 --> 00:22:03,160
title aspect. But obviously in boxing, we're always looking to

495
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,519
see what the big fight is and the winner fits

496
00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:08,039
into a very stacked division. Maybe there could be a

497
00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:11,160
unification fight with somebody, you know, that remains to be seen,

498
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,200
but there're definitely the opportunities for the winner.

499
00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 2: That is the match Room de Zone main event in

500
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,160
Puerto Rico. I promise we're getting to the Hall of

501
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,000
Fame stuff in a few moments. This first, first, you

502
00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:25,839
put this on the sheet earlier in the afternoon US

503
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:32,279
time from Bulgaria, the home of Kubrat Poulev Poohlev, makmud

504
00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:34,359
Char Rayfield you want me to say it.

505
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: What are we doing here?

506
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: And why does it say on your rundown WBA regular

507
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,160
Heavyweight title.

508
00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:46,759
Speaker 1: I remember vividly and you going on and on about it.

509
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago that they said they were

510
00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:51,599
going to do away with all of this, and obviously

511
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,079
I will say it on the pod they were lying.

512
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,319
They continue to do these regular title fights, secondary title fights,

513
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,079
after they said they were going to get rid of them.

514
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,960
It's two years later, Dan, they okay, first of all,

515
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:07,000
they were lying about they weren't lying.

516
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 3: But I don't need to defend the w b A,

517
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:11,440
who has been the target of my ire in a

518
00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:12,079
major way.

519
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: For I'm just having fun with you. Is it or

520
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:16,559
is it not?

521
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,319
Speaker 2: A secondary title fight for the w b A And

522
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:22,039
they or did they not say they were doing away

523
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:22,759
with them?

524
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:25,599
Speaker 3: So you're not listen. I don't want to argue with

525
00:23:25,599 --> 00:23:27,759
you that they you're not characterizing the right way. They

526
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,119
have been getting rid of them. But ch has the title,

527
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:32,519
so their.

528
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:33,599
Speaker 1: Guys, what title?

529
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 2: This is the whole thing with the lawsuit, and they

530
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,319
screwed up and they didn't make him right way.

531
00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:42,079
Speaker 3: They took him out. They got rid of that belt

532
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,160
and to save themselves. Self preservation is an important factor

533
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,039
for anybody in life. They reinstated him when they lost

534
00:23:50,079 --> 00:23:53,240
a lawsuit. Char got the belt back and now he's

535
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,759
defending against brat Pool, who's been a contender slash, you know,

536
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,640
secondary type of guy for a long time. Uh. You

537
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,640
know the thing about about about about poulev is his

538
00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:07,720
losses have been what you could call good losses. I mean,

539
00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:09,759
if there's such a thing, you know, he got he

540
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:11,519
was unfortunately on the wrong end of the knockout of

541
00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:13,880
the year in twenty fourteen. That's when he challenged, but

542
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,160
Ladimir Klitschko was still, you know, the dominating unified champion

543
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,839
at that point. He then went to a bunch of

544
00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:21,279
fights in a row. He then and during the pandemic

545
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,759
in the in front of like a thousand people instead

546
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:26,079
of fifty thousand people. He went to England to the

547
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,279
Wembley Arena, not the big stadium, and in under COVID rules,

548
00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:32,799
you know, social distancing that in a mandatory fight he

549
00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:35,640
got knocked out by Anthony Joshua in the ninth round,

550
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,759
and he then lost later in a very close fight

551
00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:41,000
that really, frankly could have gone either way. It was

552
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,640
a split decision. He lost a split to Derek Tasa

553
00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:47,119
back in the UK in twenty twenty three. So you

554
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,680
know he's been he's been in the ring with with

555
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,160
uh you know, with with good competition. You know, just

556
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,000
has the three losses. Like I think I said four

557
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,880
loss in four he's only got the three losses. He's

558
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,400
won two in a row. You know, he's older fighter,

559
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,200
he's in his forties, forty three years old, but he's

560
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,000
always in great shape. He's still a draw. You know,

561
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:05,599
we may joke around about it here in America, that's fine,

562
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:08,680
but if you go to Sofia, Bulgaria or anywhere in Bulgaria,

563
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:10,720
the guy's a fucking rocks. I'm not joking. I mean

564
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,920
he's a big deal over there. I mean they don't

565
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,039
have a lot of top superstar athletes you know that

566
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,359
come out of Bulgaria. So in Bulgaria, this is for

567
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,359
them again, this is in their country. This is a

568
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,119
big deal. This is like a big thing for them.

569
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,640
They're like, this is the heavyweight championship of the world.

570
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: Now, char.

571
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,279
Speaker 3: Has been around forever. He's at injuries, he's at issues

572
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:34,480
with purspids and the WBA lawsuits, and all kinds of stuff.

573
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:38,240
He hasn't fought in twenty twenty two. You know, he's

574
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,599
only had three fights in twenty seventeen. You know, he

575
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,160
was the victim that got absolutely destroyed and bloodshed everywhere

576
00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:48,599
when he lost in a WBC heavyweight title shot against

577
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,839
Italian Clitchco. You know, back in this was turned out

578
00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:54,319
to be the final fight of itally Clitchko's career. As

579
00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:56,359
a matter of fact, he was fighting against him. This

580
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,880
is you know, several years ago, you know whatever, Like

581
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,359
I said to you before we started taking this, that

582
00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:04,640
fight by the way, all the way back in twenty twelve,

583
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:06,559
when I fought clitch Goo and suffered his first lesson,

584
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,559
got sliced up and knocked out in the fourth round.

585
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,240
Here's the thing, title or no title whatever. It shapes

586
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,279
up like a fun fight between two like second tier

587
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,440
type heavyweights that might put on a good fight, might

588
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,920
stink it out, who knows. It's on the zone. The

589
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,079
bottom line is the winner's gonna have the DBBA Regular

590
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,160
belt and is gonna be in position at some point

591
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,440
against the winner. Theoretically, anyway, against Fury and USIG number two,

592
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,759
I doubt it's happening anytime soon. But we'll see. But

593
00:26:35,799 --> 00:26:39,039
there's always room in my life for a somewhat evenly

594
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:41,440
matched heavyweight fight. I'm okay with that. I can live

595
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,440
without the belt aspect of it, but we wouldn't be

596
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,079
talking to that's the belt wasn't there. We can make

597
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:45,519
fun of it.

598
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,599
Speaker 2: And that's again in the afternoon coming on to zone

599
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,799
from Bulgaria US time Saturday night. What are they ahead

600
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,720
like seven hours six or seven hours in Bulgaria for Saturday.

601
00:26:57,799 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: So there you go with those.

602
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: You know what I would of a homework assignment for you,

603
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,240
because you do this with your schedule and you can

604
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,359
probably easily find it in your database. Go back to

605
00:27:05,519 --> 00:27:08,279
just this calendar year and see if there or not,

606
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,400
because I remember we talked about two or three of them.

607
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,519
I believe there at least two or three secondary WBA

608
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:16,519
title fights that they still had this year, and I

609
00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:17,039
remember you.

610
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:20,599
Speaker 3: Had for for a long period of time, the WBA

611
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,359
literally had in the in there. Well, now they recognize

612
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,880
eighteen weight classes because they also recognized the bridger weights,

613
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,200
But prior to their recognition of the bridge weights, which

614
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,400
does not have a regular title holder, they used to

615
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,480
have like literally a secondary or an interim virtually every fight,

616
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:36,519
like for seventeen divisions. Every day they light had like

617
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:39,960
thirty eight champions quote unquote champions, and they've done actually,

618
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,400
and I've had this conversation privately with GILBERTA. Mendoza, who

619
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,839
is the president of the WBA. They are now down

620
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,599
to in there, and I'm looking at my chart here

621
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:49,519
because I keep track of this shit. As I say,

622
00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:52,519
I keep track, so you don't have to. They have

623
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,240
a regular title holder in the heavyweight division, and that

624
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:58,039
is only because of the lawsuit. For whatever you think

625
00:27:58,079 --> 00:28:00,519
about that, it's just a fact. They've got David Morrell

626
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,599
is the secondary title holder in the light heavyweight division,

627
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,640
which was a pissed me off because it was unnecessary.

628
00:28:05,759 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: Uh huh, the secondary title fight. Thank you, I get it.

629
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,599
Speaker 3: They have an interim title holder with Caleb plant in

630
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,200
the super middleweight division. That's three like secondary irregulars. They

631
00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:18,680
and then you have to go all the way down

632
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:22,160
to the one hundred and thirty pounds weight class where

633
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,200
Albert Begaziev, who was an Olympic medallist, who has the

634
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,160
interim title in the junior lightweight division, and they also

635
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,079
have an interim title holder in the junior bandamweight division

636
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,960
and that's it. They have only five non full titles

637
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,799
and two of them are regulars and the other three

638
00:28:40,839 --> 00:28:43,680
are interims. So again I'm not excusing it, but it's

639
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,519
a thousand million times better than it once was. And

640
00:28:46,519 --> 00:28:50,279
by the way, they have fewer non full champions than

641
00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:51,640
the WBC does currently.

642
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: Okay, so char who lev Dan will be on it.

643
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:57,200
We will.

644
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,559
Speaker 3: Let's relax about that. I'm not going to be on shit.

645
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:01,599
Speaker 2: Well no, but you'll at least pay attention to what

646
00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:04,400
happens and we'll recap it, particularly if there's a spectacular knockout,

647
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,359
if there's something going on with that. I do know

648
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,480
what was going on on Thursday because I read my

649
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:11,519
Dan Rayphael Substack fight for each United Substack once again,

650
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,359
why are you not subscribing The Hall of Fame election

651
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,920
results announced Thursday, Manny Paciow, Hello.

652
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: Not a surprise.

653
00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: He was on the ballot, had to be, as you said,

654
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,400
we don't know the official results, but I mean, how

655
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,759
is he not a unanimous first ballot Hall of Famer?

656
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 3: Somebody that's an idiot? I mean, okay, fair enough, Dereketer

657
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:32,599
not unanimous?

658
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: How is i agree, and sometimes you see it in

659
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:36,599
the NFL.

660
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: Somebody is not going to vote for Tom Brady when

661
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,039
he's eligible in a couple of years. But in any event,

662
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,359
Paqio leads the class. You wrote a lot about this,

663
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,680
so encapsulate. How about that word for the preview, encapsulate

664
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,359
the Hall of Fame class including those out of the ring,

665
00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:53,640
which is a couple of interesting names.

666
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Well, the marquis had first of all, just

667
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,319
so people understand, in the boxing Hall of Fame, there

668
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:03,279
are a number of different categories. There's the modern men,

669
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,640
which is the marquee category. That's the more recent active

670
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,000
who are now retired. It's a three year waiting period

671
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,400
for men's boxers. There's the same thing now for the

672
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,519
women's boxers, a category that was created about four years

673
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:20,079
ago for modern women's boxers. And then you have old timers,

674
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:23,279
which that says it all. You have non participants, which

675
00:30:23,319 --> 00:30:26,880
is folks who are involved in boxing, a trainer, a referee,

676
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,160
you know, people that are involved, a promoter, a manager,

677
00:30:30,319 --> 00:30:33,160
people are involved with the sport, but not the actual combatants.

678
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,160
Then you have a category called observers that would be

679
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,920
folks that are broadcasters, journalists, people along those lines, statisticians

680
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,400
just you know, different other things in boxing who are

681
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,200
not actually in the ring or part of the actual event.

682
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:51,680
And then you have besides old timers, there's pioneers which

683
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,759
are even way way older. That's you know, for the

684
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,880
historical folks to dissect and to look through. Anyway, there

685
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,200
were seven different categories that were voted on, but the

686
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:03,039
marquee category was the men's modern category, and that was

687
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:05,720
the one where Many Packau, who was among the four

688
00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:09,400
newcomers on the ballot. The other newcomers where Sean Porter,

689
00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:13,480
Luciambute and Mikey Garcia, and none of those three were elected,

690
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:15,599
which didn't surprise me. I didn't vote for either any

691
00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:18,240
of them, not to diss them or disrespect them at all,

692
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,440
because they all were top notch guys in their day.

693
00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:23,160
Just I think clear that based on my vote as

694
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,559
well as the rest of the the folks who vote,

695
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:28,200
and so people also know the voters are the members

696
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,440
of the Boxing Writers Association of which I'm a member,

697
00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:34,200
as well as a quote unquote international panel of historians,

698
00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:36,920
and so we all were on that same page because

699
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,720
those guys did not get in, but Many Packaw when

700
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,960
you look at the ballot when you first get it

701
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,039
is such a slam dunk first ballot guy. You don't

702
00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:46,559
have to spend a lot of time studying the resume.

703
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,640
I covered all those fights, I know, many packs career. Intimately,

704
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,079
I was at virtually every single one. I think I

705
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:53,920
was at almost every single one of his United States

706
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,279
fights except me be you know, one or two at

707
00:31:56,279 --> 00:31:57,960
the very beginning, but I was there for the first one.

708
00:31:58,359 --> 00:32:01,279
And you know, covered some like twenty six many Paco fights.

709
00:32:01,319 --> 00:32:04,440
I mean, you don't have to cover twenty six many

710
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,559
of Pacao fights at ringside to know that this is

711
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:08,160
a Hall of fame or eight weight classes he won

712
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,000
titles in. That's the all time record men or women

713
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,920
from flyweight one hundred and twelve pounds all the way

714
00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:16,119
to junior middle eight one hundred and fifty four pounds.

715
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,119
And to be honest, if he had decided a campaign

716
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,039
in the junior bandonweight or the Bandam weight division, you're

717
00:32:21,079 --> 00:32:23,119
looking at a guy that could have had world titles

718
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,839
and ten weight classes. You know, in a sport where

719
00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:29,839
there are seventeen you know, mostly other than the bridger weights, whatever,

720
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,680
seventeen weight classes. So this is it not, and forget

721
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,680
about the number of titles, because it's about who you

722
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,880
beat to get the titles. Dude, do we really have

723
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,720
to go over this many Paco, who, by the way,

724
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:40,599
still looking, We're going to.

725
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: Talk about one of the guys that he beat on

726
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,680
the Nostalge. You'll late in the show, but may very.

727
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: Well come back at some point. But here's the reality,

728
00:32:47,759 --> 00:32:51,559
Manny Pacyao has more big time wins than just about

729
00:32:51,599 --> 00:32:53,920
anybody that you can think of. I mean, I'll even

730
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,319
say this, this may sound blasphemous to something. We talk

731
00:32:56,359 --> 00:32:58,440
about Sugar Ray Leonard on this show all the time.

732
00:32:58,519 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we are.

733
00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:03,079
Speaker 3: We are in the bag for Sugar Attlantero. We love

734
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,279
Sugar Letter, but his career obviously was cut short by

735
00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:08,279
the injuries, in the layoffs with the retina and this

736
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:12,160
and that. In terms of big wins, many Pacio has

737
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,279
more big wins than just about anybody in modern body

738
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,119
by far and away. I mean, I'm not knocking beating

739
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,119
Herns and Duran and Benitez and Hagler. I mean those

740
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:24,559
are mega wins fair enough, But Manny Paco, are you

741
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,039
kidding me? This guy has checked this out in this

742
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,160
no particular order. He has knockout wins against Miguel CoA

743
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,759
Hall of Famer, Ricky Hat in the Hall of Famer.

744
00:33:33,319 --> 00:33:37,839
He routed Antonio Margarito to win the set to establish

745
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,039
directord at eight weight classes when he obliterated him in

746
00:33:41,079 --> 00:33:42,799
a decision and they should have stopped to fight about

747
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:44,759
five different times, and he messed up his eye for life.

748
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,599
He's two to one and one against Juan Manuel Marquez,

749
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:50,640
who's a Hall of Famer, in four great fights, legit

750
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,279
great fights. He has an easy role past Shane Mosley,

751
00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:55,880
who is maybe not at his best but still beat

752
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,359
him easily. Uh the Hall of Famer. He has two

753
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,640
two wins against Marco Antonio Brera, including the knockout in

754
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,640
the first fight, which is really his breakout victory among

755
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,719
you know in the United States, you know, when he

756
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,920
beat him handily in the Alamo Dome. He has two

757
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,679
wins against one ridiculously heinous controversial loss against Tim Bradley,

758
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:17,880
also a Hall of Famer. By the way, He's two

759
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,360
and one against the great Eric Morales, Hall of Famer.

760
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,639
He has a knockout victory against the great Oscar de

761
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,760
la Hoya in a fight where he was a big underdog.

762
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:27,239
We'll get to that.

763
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: We will further discuss on this pod.

764
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,199
Speaker 3: Sure so, and that's just like and then he has

765
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,280
led Wabba victory, which was an he won his junior

766
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,239
featherweight title of the first fight in the United States

767
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,360
where I was ringside for that fight, and We're all like,

768
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,119
who the hell is this guy? Even though I knew

769
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:41,079
who he was as a former flyweight champion, but he

770
00:34:41,079 --> 00:34:43,679
took the fight on short notice and obliterated the guy

771
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:45,920
who was considered at that moment number one at one

772
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,199
hundred and twenty two pounds. Like he has, he beat

773
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,920
us so many top guys. I didn't even think about this. Also,

774
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,239
he beat Keith Thurman at age forty to become the

775
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,400
oldest welterweight world champion in the in boxing history. I mean,

776
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,880
he's got younger guys like Jesse Vargas. I mean, you know,

777
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,679
Brandon Rios, Chris Algeri. I mean, the number of many

778
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,239
of big names or former champions or top guys is

779
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:11,280
just ridiculous.

780
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:11,639
Speaker 1: You know.

781
00:35:11,679 --> 00:35:13,639
Speaker 3: Obviously he does have the loss to Floyd Mayweather in

782
00:35:13,679 --> 00:35:16,679
their ultimate Summit meeting. By the way, he's also not

783
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,920
only all those accolades. I just mentioned biggest fight in

784
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,480
boxing history in terms of money by a lot. In

785
00:35:21,559 --> 00:35:24,239
terms of Mayweather pack Out, most people would say many

786
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,000
Packau is the greatest, not most. He is the greatest

787
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,320
Filipino fighter. He is the greatest Asian fighter. You can

788
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,000
argue he maybe in that he's in the conversation to

789
00:35:33,039 --> 00:35:36,239
be the greatest Southo boxer. Here's a fighter that turned

790
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,719
professional at one hundred and sixty one hundred and six

791
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,280
pounds and won a title all the way up to

792
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,039
one fifty four, even though in that bout he only

793
00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:46,239
weighed like one forty four. But he went from unknown,

794
00:35:46,679 --> 00:35:52,000
from abject poverty on nobody to become a global icon

795
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,280
and generate hundreds of millions of dollars, make great fights,

796
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,960
bankaball box office superstar, many pay per views over him,

797
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:05,239
million buys and by the way, extremely charitable, humble, as

798
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,239
nice and kind of a guy as you can meet.

799
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,920
I've spent time with Manny Pakyo over the years. I've

800
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,599
gotten to know him, not like we're best friends, but

801
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:14,280
I've spent time in his you know, personally with him,

802
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,760
watch fights with him. I mean, just a wonderful human

803
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,119
being and became a politician in his country, was in

804
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,719
like their equivalent of the House of Representatives, was a

805
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,639
member of the of the Filipino Senate, lost in a

806
00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:28,800
bid for the presidency. And here's the reality. He is

807
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,440
in his forties. He is looking to probably come back

808
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,239
and fight. And because they've lowered the threshold from five

809
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,880
years to three, it's going to be more commonplace to

810
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,840
see fighters fight after they've been elected. But Manny Pacio's

811
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,960
legacy is locked up. And by the way, in addition

812
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,320
to that, three times voted the Boxing Writers Association Fighter

813
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,440
of the Year two thousand and six, two thousand and eight,

814
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,039
two thousand and nine, and voted as the Fighter of

815
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:55,440
the decade. This guy is legacy. Like there's hall of fames,

816
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,039
and in every hall of fame, you got to figure

817
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:58,960
there's the best of the hall of famers and then

818
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,599
there's maybe the weakest of the whole hall of famers.

819
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,719
Manny Pacao is the upper tier, inner circle hall of famers.

820
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,039
He sits with the Robinson.

821
00:37:06,159 --> 00:37:09,079
Speaker 2: You knew without us discussing this where I was going next.

822
00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:11,480
He ought to have like his own wing in the

823
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,320
boxing Hall of Fame. I haven't been in it. On

824
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,039
how big it is, and how many wings they have,

825
00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:19,119
and look, it's almost a disservice for what we're going

826
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:21,960
to talk about next. After that litany that you just

827
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:24,960
went down, you almost wonder, you know, is this a

828
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:27,360
year where he should have been the only modern man

829
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,519
to go in just because everything else is gonna pale?

830
00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 3: More than likely We have discussed this before. I love

831
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,679
the Hall of Fame. I revere the Hall of Fame.

832
00:37:35,679 --> 00:37:37,000
I grew up near the Hall of Fame. I spent

833
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:39,519
time in the Hall of Fame. I visited there way

834
00:37:39,559 --> 00:37:41,519
before I was a boxing writer, just to go because

835
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:43,760
I love boxing. I've gotten to know the folks that

836
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,840
run the Hall of Fame. I respect them, I love them.

837
00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:48,000
It's a wonderful place. I wish every boxing fan you

838
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:51,480
go spend the weekend at Induction weekends in June. You'll

839
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,000
have a great time. The fighters are accessible, it's a

840
00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:56,719
really cool thing to do. The memorabilia showed, the parade,

841
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,599
the inductions, the fistcasting, it's just a beautiful experience. My

842
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,199
one quarrel and I've had the very pleasant and not

843
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,239
like an argument, but the discussion with Ed Brophy, who

844
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:07,679
is the executive director of the Hall of Fame and

845
00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:10,559
has been in that position for many, many years. They

846
00:38:10,599 --> 00:38:13,920
do not base their elections on a vote threshold. In

847
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,079
other words, it's not like in the Baseball of Fame,

848
00:38:16,119 --> 00:38:18,320
where you have to achieve seventy five percent of the vote.

849
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,559
Now just put it in perspective. In the boxing Hall

850
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:22,760
of Fame, it's not on the exact number. There are

851
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,320
about two hundred voters that cast ballots for the modern

852
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,280
men's category every year. They pick the top three vote getters,

853
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,760
or it could be more. If there are ties and

854
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,239
anybody that would achieve over eighty percent of the vote,

855
00:38:35,639 --> 00:38:38,119
so automatically the top three are going to get in.

856
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:40,280
So it's I don't know the answer because they don't

857
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,519
tell us the totals, but one would assume that many

858
00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:45,039
Pacio was a way in excess of the seventy five

859
00:38:45,079 --> 00:38:46,880
percent that would be if it should.

860
00:38:46,679 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 1: Have been unanimous, as we said at the beginning of

861
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:48,800
the conversation.

862
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 3: But I'm making the point here that there are there

863
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,519
are years where I have zero dow out of my

864
00:38:52,559 --> 00:38:54,719
mind that there has been a fighter who has been

865
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,719
elected to the Hall of Fame who may have gotten

866
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,440
less than fifty percent. Let's say so.

867
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,079
Speaker 2: He will the third, let's say, or the second most

868
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:05,440
vote getter that year, right, exactly.

869
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,599
Speaker 3: What Paw though, is among the inner circle, upper level,

870
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,719
superstar tier Hall of famers. Like I said in the

871
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,840
conversation with the Muhammad Alis and the Mayweathers and Joe

872
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,079
Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson and Agler and those types

873
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:21,440
of guys, Sugar Ray Leonard. Now, the next two fighters

874
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,559
that got into the Hall of Fame, one of them

875
00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:25,360
I did vote for, and that is Michael Nunn, who

876
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,440
had not had a fight for like over twenty years.

877
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,679
I think it's been since his last fight. Michael not

878
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,800
Unfortunately for him, he got caught up in a drug

879
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,239
trafficking situation. He spent sixteen years in prison, yep. And

880
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:36,519
I think that might have been while he was kind

881
00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:39,119
of largely forgotten. He never appeared on the ballot until

882
00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:41,039
the last couple of years. I think maybe last year

883
00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:43,639
was the first year. But he belongs in all fam mean,

884
00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:46,280
putting aside whatever happened outside the ring, boxing, you know,

885
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,480
these are not saints. This is about fighting, and as

886
00:39:48,519 --> 00:39:50,320
a fighter, he was a hell of a fighter. Slicks

887
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,639
south Paw, you know, good smile, good personality. Fought a

888
00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:56,239
ton of fights on HBO and Showtime in the late

889
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,679
eighties to early nineties. He was on the Pownerful pound list.

890
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,960
He was the lineal champion in the middleweight division. He

891
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,239
was a lineal champion in the super middleweight division. He

892
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,519
had a very good run when he became the middleweight champion.

893
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:09,440
He knocked out then unbeaten Frank Tate, who if you remember,

894
00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:11,360
was an Olympian, was a hell of a fighter. He

895
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,000
had beaten Michael Nunn in the amateur ranks twice out

896
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,079
of their three fights. So he avenged that in the pros,

897
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:21,039
so to speak, by getting this knockout win to get

898
00:40:21,079 --> 00:40:23,400
the IBF title. And then he made five defenses, all

899
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,880
against good opponents. Jan Roll Dan who was in some

900
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,360
tremendous fights. He fought Hagler and Hearns and was, you know,

901
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,199
a rough, tough guy. Sambo Calumbay was a former champion.

902
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,400
Knocked him in the first round. That was picked as

903
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,679
the nineteen eighty nine Ring Magazine knock Out of the Year.

904
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,039
He beat Iran Barkley. Marlin Starling granted a faded version

905
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:42,800
of the Hall of Famer Donald Curry, but that is

906
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,920
some big time stuff. And when he finally lost the title,

907
00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:47,239
he didn't lose to Obum, I mean he lost to

908
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:48,800
James Tony. He was in the Hall of Fame. Also

909
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,280
was a great fighter too, you know, you can tell

910
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:56,440
because the guys that trained him were top guys also who,

911
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:57,880
by the way, are in the Hall of Fame who

912
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,880
he joins his trainers, the great Angelo Dundee and also

913
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,679
our pal Joe Goosen. Yeah, that's pretty good company. And

914
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,360
then when he won the super middleweight title, he did

915
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,280
it against Victor Cordoba, made you know, four more defenses.

916
00:41:10,679 --> 00:41:15,000
I mean, for that era, late eighties, early nineties, he

917
00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:17,639
was all the famer. Yeah, all doubt about it, all right.

918
00:41:17,679 --> 00:41:19,119
I had no problem with winning for him, and it

919
00:41:19,159 --> 00:41:20,960
wasn't even you know, I spent a lot of time

920
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,159
thinking about it. But when I got the ballot, and

921
00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:25,960
particularly compared to the other the ballot, just so people know,

922
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,760
it was forty two names on the ballot this year,

923
00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:31,800
and of those forty two, pac Yo clearly obviously. And

924
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,880
then once you got to the next batch of guys.

925
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:36,199
To me anyway, Michael Munn was number two in terms

926
00:41:36,199 --> 00:41:38,199
of the guys that I picked, and so he was

927
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,320
involved in. You know he got in now the third

928
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,360
one I got issues with. Let's be honest, Vinniezzians. Vinnie

929
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:53,119
Pez a popular fighter, exciting fighter, certainly gained a tremendous

930
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:55,159
amount of respect from the boxing world and I think

931
00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:58,000
all the sports world went. Six weeks after he won

932
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,559
the WBA Junior Middleway title by knockout against Gilbert Delay,

933
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,960
he was in a very bad car crash. He broke

934
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,519
his neck. He wore the halo. People thought his career

935
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:08,800
was over right and he would never box again. And

936
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,440
because of the inner strength and drive and will of

937
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,599
this man, so you got to respect that. I do

938
00:42:14,679 --> 00:42:18,280
respect it immensely. He overcame that he returned to the

939
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,079
ring when everybody thought his career was over. Fourteen months

940
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:24,400
later he was out after he broke the neck. But

941
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,960
the reality is, if that's your criteria for the Hall

942
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,760
of Fame, then fine, he's a Hall of Famer. But

943
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,960
if you go by what you've actually done in terms

944
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,679
of the wins and losses, and I don't take away

945
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,960
the great story of what he was able to accomplish,

946
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:39,079
you have to respect that. That's a huge thing. But

947
00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:40,840
it's also about wins and losses. At the end of

948
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,519
the day, he won two major world titles in the

949
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:46,360
lightweight division and in the jingior middleweight division. He never

950
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,320
had a successful defense of either title, and in world

951
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,719
title fights he's two and six. And if you take

952
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,079
a look at the record, I mean, you know, he

953
00:42:54,199 --> 00:42:57,639
lost to you know, good guys like Roger Mayweather at

954
00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:00,639
that time. You know, the one title that he that

955
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,039
he won was against Delay, like I mentioned, the the

956
00:43:03,079 --> 00:43:05,599
lightweight title, he beat Greg Halgan, we went too and

957
00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:08,280
one against he lost it to Hagan in the media

958
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,400
rematch and then beat him after that in a trilogy

959
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,320
fight that was not for a title. And so you

960
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,280
really take a look at the record, you know, at

961
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:15,960
the end of his career and lost another super medal

962
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:20,079
title fight earlier than that, he got just annihilated by

963
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:24,480
Roy Jones. Just couldn't even touch him. His big wins

964
00:43:24,559 --> 00:43:27,480
quote unquote big wins. If you consider them big wins,

965
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:29,559
it sounds like a great name. But if you take

966
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:30,840
a look at where he was in his career, this

967
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,840
was a long faded well past his prime, completely used

968
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,400
up Roberto Durant, who we did defeat two times. And

969
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,280
so Paz had had a great fan base in Rhode Island.

970
00:43:42,639 --> 00:43:46,400
He was an exciting fighter, but the the accomplishments of

971
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,280
in the ring, and I'm not talking about coming back

972
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,599
from an incredible thing with the injury. It's it's it's very.

973
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,079
Speaker 2: Not enough meat on the bone for big damn. But

974
00:43:56,079 --> 00:43:56,760
but it's not just me.

975
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,079
Speaker 3: I have to tell you just by the way, just

976
00:43:58,159 --> 00:44:00,800
let me just be clear her. So when the results

977
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:07,000
were announced, I got text messages from other boxing writers

978
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,320
who I've known for many years.

979
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 2: Mm hm.

980
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,199
Speaker 3: One of them was like, Vinnie Paz question, Mark, are

981
00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:15,199
you fucking kidding me? Was one of them. Clearly a

982
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,559
person who is Hall of Fame voter, right, this is

983
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:20,119
that Hall of Fame voter who was like disgusted by that.

984
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,400
And the thing is, and it worked because Paz ran

985
00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:27,719
essentially a campaign, and it worked because enough people voted

986
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,719
for him to get into Hall of Fame. So you know,

987
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,880
I can't knock that if the voters voted. I just

988
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,440
feel like sometimes people that vote are not as educated.

989
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,559
Speaker 2: And again the story Miles Teller played him in the

990
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:41,519
movie I Bleed for This in the movie.

991
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:42,679
Speaker 1: The story is a big story.

992
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,559
Speaker 2: But I understand I am very big and we don't

993
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:47,559
have to go for another fifteen message. I'm very big

994
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:49,599
that it's not the Hall of Fame of very good.

995
00:44:50,519 --> 00:44:52,000
It's not even the hall of fame of good for

996
00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:55,119
a long time. This is supposed to be in all

997
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,880
halls of fame, the best of the best in any sport.

998
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,800
And what you're saying is for what happened in the ring.

999
00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:06,159
Is he one of the best of the best in

1000
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,000
his era, in his divisions? And I think you made

1001
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,719
a pretty good case right there. I do say so,

1002
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,039
mister prosecutor.

1003
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 3: Myself world title fighting never was the fighter of the year,

1004
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,880
never was in a fight of the year. I mean,

1005
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:20,760
and I'm not I'm not trying to dump on him.

1006
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:21,760
Here's the funny thing.

1007
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:23,679
Speaker 1: Is it hall of fame worthy?

1008
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 3: You say no, that The crazy thing about it is

1009
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,360
like before, like I.

1010
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,559
Speaker 1: Got it this way? Can I put it another way?

1011
00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:33,639
Speaker 2: If you just put it as a blank resume, you

1012
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,159
don't know who it is and you don't know about

1013
00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:39,480
the car accident. It's not the part of the n ring,

1014
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,000
is it even? Is he even on the ballot? Is

1015
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:47,880
that blank not not him? Is that blank resume on

1016
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,800
the ballot? He's on the ballot because it's a heartwarming story,

1017
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,719
a courageous story. Yeah, and then he pushed across here

1018
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,159
in twenty twenty four, got in the hole.

1019
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 3: So when when when when I didn't vote for Vinnie

1020
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,559
Pass in other years, like he and his publicists would

1021
00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:04,079
like torment me on social media ba and curse at

1022
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:05,360
me and called me names and this and that. The

1023
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,239
funny thing about is before that, like there were times

1024
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,360
like I was like, I remember one time, very specific,

1025
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,280
I was out of fight in Vegas and I was

1026
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,440
at the Mandalay Bay and me and Max Kellerman and

1027
00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:19,039
Vinnie Paz and and the hooker that he was with

1028
00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:22,840
for the weekend. Literally no exaggeration, beautiful, big kits, the

1029
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,039
whole nine. Anyway, by the way, Vegas, Yes, we were

1030
00:46:27,039 --> 00:46:28,800
in We were in the Mandalay Bay in the in

1031
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,079
the what's what's I forget what it's called Avidellano, which

1032
00:46:31,119 --> 00:46:33,400
is like the hotel that's attached to it. It doesn't

1033
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,679
have the slot machines and the casino and everything. Anyway,

1034
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,480
we hung out for hours, We played pool, we heard stories,

1035
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,400
We hung out at the bar. I mean, and Vinnie

1036
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:41,800
is a great guy to just hang out with, even

1037
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,480
though he was a wild man. If you go back

1038
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,480
another time when uh, when there was one of the

1039
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,039
Canelo fights that took place at the AT and T Stadium,

1040
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,840
Golden Boy and Takat hired me to host like their

1041
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,599
brief fight, like uh like question and answer Q and

1042
00:46:57,639 --> 00:46:59,639
a like a thing for their what they call their

1043
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:02,360
Taka day chat talk or whatever it was. And so

1044
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,599
I moderated a thing that was Oscar de la Jolla,

1045
00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:08,760
Bernard Hopkins, Larry Merchant and anyway, Vinnie Paz was part

1046
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,280
of that that panel. We had a great time doing that.

1047
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,320
So he's a great guy to hang out with. And

1048
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:15,559
you know, even though he apparently hates my guts at

1049
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:18,719
this point, but that's for being giving my honest opinion

1050
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:19,800
that I just don't see it.

1051
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 2: I guess by extension he hates me too right about now.

1052
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,000
But I mean we have we have our opinions, all right.

1053
00:47:26,039 --> 00:47:29,400
So we sufficiently covered the modern man. What else is

1054
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,000
there of note? And I actually have a quick antidote

1055
00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:33,400
on one of the guys that got in the Hall

1056
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,320
of Fame as a non participant, Go ahead, Big Dan.

1057
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,119
Speaker 3: So in the old timer category, which speaks for itself,

1058
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:44,519
it's Colombia's Rodrigo Valdez, former two time middleweight world champion,

1059
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,960
was one of the best middleweights of the seventies. Had

1060
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,360
two fights, although he lost against the great Carlos Monz,

1061
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,079
own had the three fights series with Benny Briscoe where

1062
00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:57,440
he was able to win the world title. You know,

1063
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:59,440
they have a lot of guys on that ball that

1064
00:47:59,519 --> 00:48:01,639
was Actually it's amazing to me actually because you could

1065
00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:04,000
vote for I think up to like three or maybe

1066
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,840
it was five. I only used one of my votes

1067
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,440
in that category and actually voted for Valdez, who I

1068
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:09,800
have voted for in the past, and this year he

1069
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,199
got in. So glad to see that based on the

1070
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:13,880
guys that were he was competing against. And then that

1071
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,119
was that category. And then you want to talk about

1072
00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:18,119
in the modern women's category, which I have a lot

1073
00:48:18,159 --> 00:48:20,480
of problems with and I've been very specific. Yeah, people

1074
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:22,519
can read my piece about that.

1075
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: Folks, not that they're not deserving.

1076
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: You just think that they are doing too many of

1077
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,119
them and running through fighters.

1078
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:30,519
Speaker 3: No, I actually I actually think they're not deserving.

1079
00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 2: They're not right, but they're running through too many fighters

1080
00:48:33,679 --> 00:48:35,360
that are now on a ballot that aren't Hall of

1081
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,679
Fame worthy. Here we go again on you know, and

1082
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,920
then you have I believe for that.

1083
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:42,119
Speaker 3: So for the third year in a row, I sent

1084
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:44,320
back my signed ballot blank. I didn't vote for anybody

1085
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,199
in the women's category, and I voted for them in

1086
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,119
the past. I voted for like Leay Lally and Christy Martin,

1087
00:48:49,199 --> 00:48:51,360
Lucia Reiker, and you know, plenty of the other women

1088
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,719
that had been put in since the category was created

1089
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,480
in twenty twenty. But the women who they're electing, now,

1090
00:48:58,199 --> 00:49:00,679
I'm not disrespecting their their service to the sport, or

1091
00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:03,239
their efforts or their you know what, their training or

1092
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,440
whatever they did, but it's the the accomplishment in a

1093
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,559
sport that's so it was such an its infancy. They

1094
00:49:09,559 --> 00:49:12,360
haven't There's really not there anything there that you never

1095
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,400
even heard of the people that they fought. Frankly, it's

1096
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,119
it's just bizarre to me. But nonetheless, the folks that

1097
00:49:17,159 --> 00:49:19,000
did get in the modern women's cutty, which by the way,

1098
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,159
there must have been a tie among two of those

1099
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,639
ladies or maybe all three, because it's supposed to be

1100
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,199
you can vote for however many, but only two will

1101
00:49:26,199 --> 00:49:29,039
be elected. All three of them were elected, so it

1102
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:31,079
just it just goes to show you. So the three

1103
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:34,280
that were elected where Yessica shav Is from Mexico and

1104
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,119
Sophie Mathis from France and Mary Joe Sanders from Detroit,

1105
00:49:38,199 --> 00:49:40,880
who incidentally you will know as an NFL guy. Her

1106
00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:44,480
father is. The four is the NFL Pro Football Hall

1107
00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:49,079
of Famer, Charlie Sanders, the NFL tight end plight for

1108
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:51,840
the Detroit Lions in Hall of Fame from two uh

1109
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,599
but she and again she got inlected Hall of Fame.

1110
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,199
Chillie fought for five years from two thousand and three

1111
00:49:57,199 --> 00:49:59,559
to two thousand and eight. I mean, in baseball you

1112
00:49:59,559 --> 00:50:00,880
gotta fight. You got to play at least.

1113
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 2: Ten and the other and the other thing is is

1114
00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:05,320
the can can you write the history of the sport

1115
00:50:05,679 --> 00:50:07,679
and leave those people out and you're still good? That's

1116
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,440
another question on Hall of Fame inductions.

1117
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 3: So so I don't even know what I don't even

1118
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,760
know what to do. You want to And the thing

1119
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,320
about the women's category.

1120
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 2: Is, I'll tell you what you're doing by doing it,

1121
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,679
you're cheapening the induction. I'm just saying across the board,

1122
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,519
in any Hall of fame, when you lower a standard

1123
00:50:23,559 --> 00:50:26,679
and put people in that have a borderline or maybe

1124
00:50:26,679 --> 00:50:28,280
not even a borderline case to be in the Hall

1125
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,760
of Fame. You're cheaping it, cheapening it for the greats.

1126
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,280
What are we gonna do when Amanda Serrano and Katie Taylor,

1127
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,079
I'm gonna get or up on the ballot when you're

1128
00:50:36,119 --> 00:50:36,440
doing this.

1129
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 3: Here's my perspective on it. When they created the category

1130
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,239
in twenty twenty, I was really happy because the women

1131
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,800
do deserve have a place in the Hall of Fame.

1132
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,960
They compete, their athletes, they put on fights, they spill blood,

1133
00:50:48,199 --> 00:50:51,039
they give their best efforts, they win championships. Uh, and

1134
00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:53,079
they they're involved in these events. And so I've never

1135
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:55,039
been anti having women in the Hall of Fame by

1136
00:50:55,039 --> 00:50:56,760
no means. That's why I just mentioned why I was

1137
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,079
happy when they created it, and the and the top women,

1138
00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:02,159
uh that you know, let's call it. Since like the nineties,

1139
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,280
Christy Martin or Lucia Ryker Leai ally all those top

1140
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,880
women have now been elected and they've gotten the right

1141
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,559
ones for the most part, in my opinion, then there's

1142
00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:16,960
a lull. Now women's boxing is obviously much bigger today

1143
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,480
than it used to be, so when the time comes

1144
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,679
and you feel or you see the other top women

1145
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,719
of today start to retire and serve the eligibility Claressa

1146
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,159
shields aman de Serrano, like you mentioned, Katie Taylor, Snisa

1147
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,800
Estrada who just retired earlier this year. You know, Cecilia

1148
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,400
Brecooster is on the verge of retirement. You know you

1149
00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:39,280
have and there's others. You have an excellent group of

1150
00:51:39,559 --> 00:51:42,599
Mikhaela Mayer who's now has just won another title. You

1151
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:45,440
have a very good group of women that are worthy

1152
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,840
and are going to be eligible. So my suggestion, and

1153
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,199
I wrote this in my column about who I voted for,

1154
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,280
is maybe they should back off the women's elections for

1155
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,000
a little bit. Do it every other year, maybe only

1156
00:51:56,039 --> 00:51:58,679
have one get elected if you need to have somebody elected,

1157
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,000
and then when a time and the population of candidates

1158
00:52:03,079 --> 00:52:06,599
is increased, then you can certainly raise I was just.

1159
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,519
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking of this while you're saying this, that

1160
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,320
it's almost like when Serrano gets there and goes and

1161
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,400
walks around, she's gonna be going I'm not saying she

1162
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,360
would say this, but it would be easy to go.

1163
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: I'm in the Hall of Fame with who Yeah, and when.

1164
00:52:18,599 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 2: Cecilia Breck, who's who spent ten years as welterweight world

1165
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,199
champion for twenty five world title defenses, goes into the

1166
00:52:26,199 --> 00:52:28,559
Hall of Fame and she's walking around going, I'm in

1167
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:30,079
the Hall of Fame with who who is this?

1168
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: Who is that?

1169
00:52:31,119 --> 00:52:34,599
Speaker 2: I'm joking like, they're also semi serious that. Yeah, that's

1170
00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:35,400
not the same thing.

1171
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 3: The women's category currently as a reach put a thing

1172
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,960
like that. Yeah, So beyond that, now you have also

1173
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,519
the non participants I mentioned you have. This is a noe.

1174
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:46,320
This was one of those guys I marked off on

1175
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,039
my ballot and took me two seconds. Kenny Bayliss, who

1176
00:52:50,199 --> 00:52:52,320
was for a period of time in the two thousands

1177
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,559
and twenty tens, this singular best referee in boxing. And

1178
00:52:56,599 --> 00:53:00,199
you know, I mean people may have had issues with

1179
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,320
certain fights here and there, like you do with any official,

1180
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,199
but buy in marge. Henny Baylis a class guy, Yes,

1181
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:10,639
a phenomenal referee, Calm, under pressure, poised, fair, uh you know,

1182
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,920
stayed out of the way, moved well, didn't get in

1183
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,320
everybody's way. And here's how you know how great a

1184
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,519
referee he was because he caught ALLLL the big assignments

1185
00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:20,679
for a long period of time. Yes, you don't give

1186
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,760
those big, mega pressure fights to just anybody. You have

1187
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,679
to really be calm under pressure. This is in you know,

1188
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,840
in that crucible TJ. The biggest fights in the world,

1189
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:33,559
the highest stakes, the biggest spotlight, the highest pressure. Here

1190
00:53:33,559 --> 00:53:35,519
are just a smattering of the big fights he were.

1191
00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:37,960
Mayweather Pacya. You may have heard of that, the biggest

1192
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,159
fight ever in terms of the attention and the money,

1193
00:53:41,079 --> 00:53:43,880
certainly of his time in thirty two years as a referee,

1194
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,159
Mayweather Oscar de la Hoya A previous biggest fight of

1195
00:53:47,159 --> 00:53:50,360
all time financially. Oh, Mayweather versus Canelo Alvarez, you may

1196
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,559
have heard of those guys. How about Canelo versus Triple

1197
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:55,280
G number one? How about Manny Pacya, Miguel Coto, Manny

1198
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,920
Pakiat Won, Manuel Marquez too, pack ere Ricky hen Bernard Hopkins,

1199
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,760
de la Hoya, how about Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder too.

1200
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,159
You go on and on and on and on. This

1201
00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:08,760
guy was involved in tons and I'm that's just like

1202
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,559
scratching the service of the the biggest ones he did,

1203
00:54:11,599 --> 00:54:15,400
like Shakhor Stevenson against Oscar Valdez a unification, but his

1204
00:54:15,519 --> 00:54:19,800
last significant fight he worked was Dave David Benavitez against

1205
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,719
Caleb Plant. I mean this, Kenny Bayless worked a million

1206
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,440
fights and this is not a reason for the Hall

1207
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,239
of Fame, just a a little fact tooke. He actually

1208
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,360
was the referee and Floyd Maywether's professional debut about that.

1209
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:32,760
So he gets in Hall of Fame.

1210
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: Well, Kenny Bayliss well deserved and he's a great.

1211
00:54:36,679 --> 00:54:40,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, so he gets in. And then you have you

1212
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,800
have the cutman, Al Gavin who worked with Oscar de

1213
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,880
la Hoya and Itali Klitch, gool Lennox, Lewis, Nicky Ward,

1214
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,840
Junior Jones. He trained and cutman for Eric Harding, Kevin Kelly,

1215
00:54:50,159 --> 00:54:52,559
a lot of top guys. He died unfortunately back in four.

1216
00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:54,320
I got to know him a bit at the beginning

1217
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,199
of my career. As sweet a guy as you could

1218
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,559
ever come across from boxing. Uh always had time for everybody,

1219
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:04,039
loved his fighters, loved to to make sure they were

1220
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:06,679
taken care of in the fights with the cuts. Tremendous shop.

1221
00:55:07,039 --> 00:55:09,679
And the other one was another referee that also. You know,

1222
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:11,320
there's been a bunch of referees that have gotten in

1223
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,440
the Hall of Fame and this is a British referee. Yeah, no,

1224
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:18,079
Harry Gibbs, he was involved with a huge amount. I

1225
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:19,960
mean he may not have been the Kenny Baylis of

1226
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,960
his day, but he was involved in you know, he

1227
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:24,599
worked fights and he also acted as a judge also.

1228
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,639
Besides he was more known as a referee, but in

1229
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,840
terms of his judge, you know, he did fights with

1230
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:33,000
going back to like Sugar, Ray, Robinson, Sonny Listen, Ken Buchanan,

1231
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,119
Barry mcgig, a lot of top British fighters. He was

1232
00:55:36,119 --> 00:55:38,880
the referee when Muhammad Ali, Fad Bryan London, Joe Fraser

1233
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,800
against Wilfredo gom Joe Fraser against Joe Bugner, Wilfredo Gomez

1234
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,119
against Carlos Zerraate. He was a judge on Roberto Duran,

1235
00:55:46,199 --> 00:55:51,079
Sugar Ray, Leonard One, Chris Hubank, Nigel Ben Number two,

1236
00:55:51,639 --> 00:55:54,920
Chavez versus Camacho, Zuma, Nelson, Jeff Fannick. I mean, this

1237
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,719
is a very well known experience and respected referee for

1238
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,239
a very long time. Just so you put it in

1239
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,920
context of the timing. He refereed from nineteen fifty eight

1240
00:56:05,159 --> 00:56:07,760
to nineteen eighty six, so he was involved with a

1241
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,760
ton of those type of fights nineteen yeah, a lot

1242
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,400
of big time fights, and then judged after he was

1243
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:19,079
done refereeing, and then in the observer category. Ross Greenberg

1244
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:22,760
from HBO I voted for steadfastly since he's been on

1245
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,239
the ballot. It's well deserved. He was the executive producer

1246
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,760
and later the president of HBO Sports And if you

1247
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:33,039
ever watched HBO boxing, his hand prints, his footprints, his

1248
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,559
ideas are all over that for you know for a

1249
00:56:35,639 --> 00:56:38,320
many many years. Did you like having an unofficial judge

1250
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,360
and Harold Letterman, Well, he's the one that brought Harold

1251
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,159
into HBO. Did you like having the ability to hear

1252
00:56:43,199 --> 00:56:45,239
what the trainers were saying in the corner? He's the

1253
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,280
one that miked up the corners. Did you like having

1254
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,719
copy box stats? He's the one that brought copybox in?

1255
00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:53,480
And on and on. He created the franchise of twenty

1256
00:56:53,519 --> 00:56:55,880
four to seven. He created or was you know, not

1257
00:56:56,039 --> 00:56:57,920
him alone, but a big part of the creation of

1258
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,280
twenty four to seven of Legendary Knights. He's got a

1259
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,280
show full of fifty six Emmy Awards, eight Pea Bodies.

1260
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,760
One of the greatest sports producers in the history of

1261
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,400
sports production in any sport. And then of course you

1262
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,280
know the things he did as the present HBO Sports

1263
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:13,880
And by the way, him and I did not always

1264
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:15,519
see eye to eye. And when he became the president

1265
00:57:15,519 --> 00:57:18,360
of HBO Sports in two thousand, before he left HBO

1266
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,760
in twenty eleven, we had a good relationship, but we

1267
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:23,039
had a lot of scrapes. We a lot of ups

1268
00:57:23,039 --> 00:57:25,360
and downs, but one thing never wavered, and all that,

1269
00:57:25,519 --> 00:57:27,880
I have a mental respect for Ross Greenberg as a

1270
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,280
person and as a as a visionary in terms of

1271
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,400
making incredibly awesome television. I had the occasion to text

1272
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,239
him earlier today congratulate him on his Hall of Fame induction,

1273
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,360
and we had a nice text exchange. So I'm very

1274
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,159
happy he belongs in there. So now he's in there,

1275
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,920
his boss for many years, who he then replaced as

1276
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,920
the president HBO Sports, Set Abraham, is in along with

1277
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,440
lou Debella who also was involved with that group, and

1278
00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:54,159
others from HBO and their announced teams. Now, the next

1279
00:57:54,159 --> 00:57:55,800
one that needs to go in there is Mark Haffett.

1280
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,360
I've been voting for him also, but Ros Greenberg belongs

1281
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,239
in there. I'm happy he's in there. And the other.

1282
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,440
The other one is my good pal Randy Gordon, who

1283
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,519
was acted in a number of capacities as a broadcaster.

1284
00:58:07,639 --> 00:58:09,719
As a journalist, he was the editor in chief of

1285
00:58:09,719 --> 00:58:13,480
the Ring magazine. He's written a thousand things for Boxing Illustrated.

1286
00:58:13,519 --> 00:58:17,599
He's been a broadcaster on ESPN, USA Network, MSG Network

1287
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,280
and then for a period of time. This is not

1288
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,519
why he's in. From nineteen eighty eight to nineteen ninety five,

1289
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,079
he was the chairman of the New York State Athletic Comission.

1290
00:58:24,239 --> 00:58:28,159
He's a tremendous boxing person. He now hosts a boxing

1291
00:58:28,159 --> 00:58:30,760
show called at the Fights on Serrius xmy with my

1292
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,639
good pal Jerry Cooneyony Yep, yep. They've been awesome to

1293
00:58:33,639 --> 00:58:35,760
have me on as a guest many times. I love

1294
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:37,639
Randy Gordon, so I was high texted with him. Also

1295
00:58:37,679 --> 00:58:40,360
congratulated him. So that's that's your non.

1296
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,639
Speaker 1: You got to congratulate him quick.

1297
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 2: Randy Gordon's story because we're going to get to the

1298
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:49,159
nostalgia in a few moments. Young TJ in Tampa when

1299
00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:52,000
the Tuesday night Fight series was going on in the

1300
00:58:52,039 --> 00:58:55,480
mid nineteen eighties and Randy Gordon was part of the commentary.

1301
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,320
I had Actually he was at that time, I think

1302
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,760
the editor of the Ring magazine as well, and he

1303
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,360
had had written some stuff. I wrote to him and

1304
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:10,239
told him what a boxing fan I was, and okay,

1305
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:11,920
maybe he got the letter, maybe he didn't.

1306
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: And I came to Ringside.

1307
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,079
Speaker 2: I don't know how I got ringside close enough to

1308
00:59:17,079 --> 00:59:19,079
be around him and medium, but I knew who he was.

1309
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:21,760
I'd seen him on TV, I'd seen his picture. I'm

1310
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:26,320
introducing myself to Randy Gordon as a middle school TJ.

1311
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,800
This is probably nineteen eighty four eighty five. I'm fourteen

1312
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,880
or fifteen years old. And he looks at me and

1313
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,639
he says, you're the TJ from Tampa, Florida that wrote me.

1314
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:38,280
I read your letter. He goes, I thought it was

1315
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,440
an adult. He goes, this is crazy.

1316
00:59:41,199 --> 00:59:43,159
Speaker 1: And he's telling I think it was al Albert next

1317
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:43,440
to him.

1318
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 2: He goes, this kid wrote me a letter about how

1319
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:47,880
big a fan he is and that he wanted to

1320
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,400
meet me, and now here he is in Tampa, and

1321
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:51,480
I thought it was an adult.

1322
00:59:51,639 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: So it just it struck me. I haven't had a

1323
00:59:54,119 --> 00:59:55,320
chance to tell Randy that story.

1324
00:59:55,519 --> 01:00:02,239
Speaker 2: Forty years later that actually happened at the old Hyatt

1325
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,800
downtown Tampa. They were always having Tuesday night fights because

1326
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,480
your guy from top rank was the matchmaker for all

1327
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,280
those fights. They would fight there like once every two months,

1328
01:00:10,519 --> 01:00:12,480
it seemed like. And Randy Gordon was on the commentary.

1329
01:00:12,519 --> 01:00:14,320
So I got to meet him. I got to talk

1330
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,920
to him. He said, you keep being a fight fan.

1331
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,599
He goes, I was just like you when I was

1332
01:00:18,639 --> 01:00:20,960
a kid. Keep being a fight fan. How about that

1333
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:22,159
from forty years ago.

1334
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,239
Speaker 3: You know, as he was saying to me when we

1335
01:00:25,239 --> 01:00:27,639
were texting, fifty seven years he's been involved in this

1336
01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:28,840
thing pretty much anyway.

1337
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 2: What was the quote about the phone call today from

1338
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,440
the Hall of Famous today, right that they were revealing it.

1339
01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:35,760
What was his quote that's in your sub stack that

1340
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,440
he had gotten phone calls from Bert Sugar and any

1341
01:00:38,519 --> 01:00:42,400
number of big time boxing dignitaries giving him different accolades.

1342
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: But the quote is from today.

1343
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 3: So as you like I said, he'd been the editor

1344
01:00:50,039 --> 01:00:51,840
in chief of The Ring magazine, put in place there

1345
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,599
by Burke Sugar. So his quote was, I've got a

1346
01:00:54,599 --> 01:00:56,559
lot of great phone calls during my career from Burke

1347
01:00:56,599 --> 01:00:58,760
Sugar to be editor of The Ring, to the governor

1348
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,679
of New York to become the Commisson of New York.

1349
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,840
But this is the greatest boxing business call of my

1350
01:01:03,039 --> 01:01:06,000
entire life, talking about when Ed Brophy called him from

1351
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,360
the Hall of Fame to tell him he'd been elected. So, look,

1352
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,079
the Hall of Fame is meaningful to these people. It

1353
01:01:10,119 --> 01:01:12,760
is the charity on top of a long career. It's

1354
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,000
a validation of everything that these folks have done and

1355
01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:17,199
worked for for all the years that they were involved,

1356
01:01:17,199 --> 01:01:19,519
whether you're a fighter or an observer or a non participant,

1357
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:22,599
or a female boxer or what have you. And so

1358
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:25,400
the reaction from these people year in and year out

1359
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,360
is roughly the same that it's like they're they're elated,

1360
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,199
they're overjoyed. I mean, I could, I didn't. The quote

1361
01:01:32,239 --> 01:01:34,840
was was service to the media. But in the terms

1362
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,039
of like when Michael Munn gave his quote about it,

1363
01:01:37,719 --> 01:01:39,559
you know, especially for a guy that hasn't been in

1364
01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:42,119
the ring for you know, twenty years or so and

1365
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:44,639
who did you know, sixteen years or so in prison,

1366
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,119
but always you know, felt like he belonged in the

1367
01:01:48,119 --> 01:01:50,079
Hall of Fame in terms of what he accomplished and

1368
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:52,000
he did, you know, he says He's been waiting on

1369
01:01:52,039 --> 01:01:54,960
this moment for a long time. You know, it's the

1370
01:01:55,039 --> 01:01:57,880
highest he said, this is the highest achievement a boxer

1371
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,599
can have in the sport, and that is true. It's

1372
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,880
it's bigger maybe to some people, than in a gold

1373
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,039
medal in the Olympics. It's bigger than a world championship.

1374
01:02:04,239 --> 01:02:04,840
You go in.

1375
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: Forever, it's forever all time. Yes, So it's a cool thing,

1376
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:09,159
you know.

1377
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 3: And like I said, I know that because I've attended

1378
01:02:11,679 --> 01:02:14,159
the induction ceremonies in the past. I've been there just

1379
01:02:14,239 --> 01:02:17,800
to go when I've covered fights at Turningstone Casino, which

1380
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:19,559
is ten minutes down the road from the Hall of Fame.

1381
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:22,239
As a matter of fact, now the actual induction ceremonies

1382
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,320
take place in the in the Turning Stone as opposed

1383
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,679
to outside the pavilion at the Hall of Fame. You know,

1384
01:02:28,719 --> 01:02:29,920
it's an awesome place to visit.

1385
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: Cool, all right. A couple more real quick things.

1386
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,239
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, you mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, that

1387
01:02:37,559 --> 01:02:41,400
the WBC had acknowledged this that Israel Vasquez was very

1388
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,559
sick with cancer. He did die on Monday at just

1389
01:02:44,679 --> 01:02:49,079
forty six years of age. And we know about the

1390
01:02:49,079 --> 01:02:52,599
epic bouts with Rafael Marquez, which we've talked about over

1391
01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:55,679
the course of this year, some of those anniversaries coming around.

1392
01:02:56,079 --> 01:02:59,039
So just unfortunate, but not unexpected because he had been

1393
01:02:59,159 --> 01:02:59,599
very ill.

1394
01:02:59,599 --> 01:03:02,199
Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, I mean he was only forty six years old.

1395
01:03:02,239 --> 01:03:05,639
And I wasn't sure when they announced the WBC did

1396
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:07,840
that they had created a GoFundMe page to assist with

1397
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:11,679
his situation. I wasn't sure if they were just announcing it.

1398
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,719
And he had been sick for a long time, but

1399
01:03:13,719 --> 01:03:15,440
it was just becoming public or it was sort of

1400
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:17,679
a thing that they found out late. And you know,

1401
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,239
he went very quickly. My understanding is, you know, he

1402
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,079
didn't find out about it a little bit earlier this year,

1403
01:03:22,119 --> 01:03:24,880
so it did still take him very very quickly. He

1404
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,639
had he had a lot of issues though post boxing.

1405
01:03:26,639 --> 01:03:30,639
He had multiple scrolosis, He had lost his eye due

1406
01:03:30,639 --> 01:03:33,320
to surgery that from an eye injury that occurred in boxing,

1407
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:36,360
and he just was not well in general. And uh,

1408
01:03:36,719 --> 01:03:38,320
you know, it's unfortunate, but you want to talk about

1409
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,880
the ultimate warrior. He leaves behind a wife, two children,

1410
01:03:42,519 --> 01:03:47,360
and as as tremendous an action fighter who just gave

1411
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:49,840
every ounce of what he had in the fights. It's

1412
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:53,119
not just the Marquez fights that's that's the series of

1413
01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:55,559
fights that we most remember. But he had other you know,

1414
01:03:55,639 --> 01:03:58,639
colossal kind of collision fights. Also, go to watch the

1415
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:02,079
first sight, which he lost, but he later in the

1416
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:03,920
second fight. But watched the first fight that he had

1417
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,159
against Oscar Lrios. You know, he was in some big

1418
01:04:07,159 --> 01:04:11,559
time action fights. He was a quint essential Mexican warrior.

1419
01:04:11,719 --> 01:04:15,079
You know, you know, throw three to you know, take

1420
01:04:15,159 --> 01:04:18,360
three to land one if you needed to. But the

1421
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,360
Marquez fights, they will stay in the test of time.

1422
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:23,880
They did fight four times. The fourth fight should never

1423
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,199
have happened. Vasquez's way was way faded at that point.

1424
01:04:27,199 --> 01:04:29,000
He got blown out in three rounds. I wish that

1425
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,239
fight would never would happen. It was a big payday

1426
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:32,880
for him. But you know that's not I don't think

1427
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,320
worth it. But the first three fights of that series

1428
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:38,760
were absolutely incredible. The first fight was the fight of

1429
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,079
the year, and that lasted about five months because then

1430
01:04:41,079 --> 01:04:43,320
the second fight happened within the same calendar year of

1431
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,920
two thousand and seven. That was the fight of the

1432
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,199
year in seven. The third fight was the fight of

1433
01:04:48,239 --> 01:04:49,920
the year and eight. That's the one where he won

1434
01:04:50,239 --> 01:04:54,800
by a split decision. Here's the thing, he he they

1435
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,239
were all three of the first three fights were all

1436
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:00,519
for the WBC Junior Featherwaight title of actually was the

1437
01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:03,840
lineal title. He got stopped on a nose injury where

1438
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,199
he couldn't breathe in the first fight. He came back

1439
01:05:06,199 --> 01:05:08,199
and he scored a rousing knockout in the second fight,

1440
01:05:08,519 --> 01:05:11,880
and then the third fight was dead even unbelievable battle

1441
01:05:12,159 --> 01:05:14,400
at the uh. You know, the reason why a lot

1442
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,639
of people call the arena there in Carson, California the

1443
01:05:17,679 --> 01:05:20,079
war Grounds is because of what they did there in

1444
01:05:20,119 --> 01:05:22,599
their first fight, in their third fight, That's where it

1445
01:05:22,639 --> 01:05:25,559
comes from. And the third fight is absolutely sensational. I

1446
01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:29,639
mean they're epic, epic battles and unfortunately, you know, the

1447
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:31,599
fourth fight did happen and he ended up retiring. But

1448
01:05:32,119 --> 01:05:34,119
you want to watch a guy that just gives everything

1449
01:05:34,119 --> 01:05:36,679
of himself Israel Askuz is that guy. And also, by

1450
01:05:36,679 --> 01:05:39,000
the way, ask anybody and I actually had the occasion.

1451
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,199
I spent some time in the telephone earlier today with

1452
01:05:41,199 --> 01:05:44,119
Frank Espinosa. Frank Espinoza, who has a big fight for

1453
01:05:44,199 --> 01:05:46,639
his client, Oscar Valdez, as we talked about, he's the

1454
01:05:46,679 --> 01:05:48,840
manager of Oscar. They fight this weekend, but he also

1455
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,159
was a longtime manager for Israel Vasquez. Uh and you know,

1456
01:05:52,199 --> 01:05:55,960
we reminisced them about Oscar, about an Oscar, about Israel's career.

1457
01:05:57,559 --> 01:06:01,800
Just an all around for as much ferocity and just

1458
01:06:02,039 --> 01:06:05,039
go kick your ass, attitude in the ring. Just a

1459
01:06:05,079 --> 01:06:07,360
total sweetheart outside the ring, like a lot of fighters are,

1460
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:09,480
like they're not, you know, they won harm a fly

1461
01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:10,159
outside the ring.

1462
01:06:10,239 --> 01:06:12,639
Speaker 2: That was sort of like this almost become a different person.

1463
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:14,480
Right when I stepped through the ropes right.

1464
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,079
Speaker 3: Here the bell ring, he'll tear your fucking head off.

1465
01:06:16,119 --> 01:06:20,199
But when it's not going on, nice, relaxed chill. I

1466
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:23,239
didn't get a chance for various reasons that I regret

1467
01:06:23,599 --> 01:06:26,519
did not cover in person anyway, the Marquez fights, But

1468
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:29,000
I was not several of Israel Vasquez's other fights. He

1469
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:30,960
was with Golden Boy for a long period of time.

1470
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:32,960
He fought on a lot of the big undercards that

1471
01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:35,960
they did, so I was present for several of his fights.

1472
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,400
Always a very exciting fighter, and you know, it's just

1473
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,079
a real shame to pass that, you know, and finish

1474
01:06:41,159 --> 01:06:43,880
his career forty four and five with thirty two knockouts.

1475
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:45,840
He has been on the Hall of Fame ballot. I

1476
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,840
do think he is a reasonable candidate based on what's there,

1477
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,480
particularly because his Dan's partner, who always two and two

1478
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:53,480
against Raphael Marquez, is also in the Hall of Fame,

1479
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:57,280
although he's there also because of a long bantamweight title reign.

1480
01:06:57,599 --> 01:07:01,000
But he just had some tremendous fights Ivan Hernandez, the

1481
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,480
Oscar Larrios rematch where he smoked him in three rounds,

1482
01:07:03,679 --> 01:07:06,400
a dramatic victory knockout, which I was there for when

1483
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:09,360
he knocked out Johnny Gonzalez in a title defense. That

1484
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,679
was the fight right before he had the first fight

1485
01:07:11,719 --> 01:07:13,559
against Raphael Marquez. I mean, he was just in a

1486
01:07:13,599 --> 01:07:15,440
lot of great battles, and you know, it's a very

1487
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:16,079
sad situation.

1488
01:07:16,159 --> 01:07:22,679
Speaker 2: Three time cancer unfortunately, just it continues, it continues and continues,

1489
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,480
different situations. Awful hearing this is the same with a

1490
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,480
forty six year old former champ and a great name

1491
01:07:29,559 --> 01:07:32,360
in the two thousands. All right, one more news item

1492
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,760
and then the nostalgia and we'll go quickly through this.

1493
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,880
That Turkey Ala chic and the read season. Folks have

1494
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:42,360
now announced the full card coming for February twenty second.

1495
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:46,079
We already knew about Better Be a Bevil rematch Dubois,

1496
01:07:46,199 --> 01:07:51,360
Joseph Parker, Shakur, Stevenson, Floyd Schofield now confirmed. We talked

1497
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:54,039
a couple of times about Adamas and Hams as Sharaz

1498
01:07:54,079 --> 01:07:56,599
all right, fill out, and we also talked Jang and

1499
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:57,280
Kaby Yell.

1500
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,159
Speaker 1: But fill out a couple of the other part.

1501
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 2: My boy a g cabel a couple of other fights,

1502
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,840
including Virgil Ortiz now has a new opponent and it's confirmed.

1503
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,239
Speaker 1: So go through that real quick before the Nosalgia.

1504
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 3: So all those fights you mentioned, yes, I mean I

1505
01:08:11,079 --> 01:08:15,239
had reported those prior the the other than the Scofield

1506
01:08:15,239 --> 01:08:17,000
than Chakor fight, but the other ones I had reported.

1507
01:08:17,159 --> 01:08:19,920
Shakor member was looking at another opponent. They were hoping

1508
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:21,960
there's a paid a fight could happen. He got injured

1509
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:23,520
on the Latino night, but he still wanted to fight

1510
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,840
on the show. Schofield, you gotta respect the the the

1511
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,039
young guy going after a top name like that, even

1512
01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:31,600
though he doesn't have anything remotely at that level again

1513
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,880
in his resume, but he wants the opportunity and he

1514
01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:37,960
basically I don't know what went on behind the scenes

1515
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:40,159
in terms of how it got done, but he really

1516
01:08:40,199 --> 01:08:42,479
pressed Golden Boy big time to make the fight, and

1517
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,119
they ultimately acquiesced and they made the fight. So that's

1518
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,800
that's of all the fights on the card. While I'm

1519
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:49,880
interested in that fight in terms of what the odds

1520
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,199
will be, that's probably the longest odds fight because the

1521
01:08:52,239 --> 01:08:54,119
other ones are all pretty much even up. But the

1522
01:08:54,119 --> 01:08:56,000
two other fights that I didn't report on him because

1523
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,800
they weren't done. I did report on Virgil Ortiz against

1524
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,319
Boot Tennis. That fight was support agreed to. They were

1525
01:09:01,319 --> 01:09:03,000
exchanging the paperwork, and then there was the whole thing

1526
01:09:03,039 --> 01:09:06,800
about the weight. The the Virgil camp was given paperwork

1527
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:09,439
that said one what are you talking about? It's one

1528
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:11,920
fifty four. Ennis would not do the fight at one

1529
01:09:12,039 --> 01:09:15,760
fifty four now. And I'm not being emotional about this.

1530
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,520
I'm just keeping it real. And I have nothing against

1531
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:19,399
bout Tennis. He's a tremendous fighter. I like him on

1532
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:22,479
a personal basis, good guy to interview, you know, pretty chill,

1533
01:09:23,079 --> 01:09:29,520
enjoy his fights. TJ. This is in my almost twenty

1534
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:33,680
five years of covering professional boxing is as blatant as

1535
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,439
a duck and a dodge as there has been flat out.

1536
01:09:37,079 --> 01:09:40,840
You can give me a thousand different things, this is

1537
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,239
a duck. Two weeks beforehand, he was talking about I

1538
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:45,000
want to go to one fifty four. I want to

1539
01:09:45,039 --> 01:09:47,000
fight the big names. I want to make big money.

1540
01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:49,039
This was a big name. This was a chance for

1541
01:09:49,039 --> 01:09:51,800
an interim title amount of money.

1542
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,359
Speaker 2: Turkey revealed he talked to Ennis and Innis said I

1543
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:58,840
want to fight at one fifty four with Ortiz, and

1544
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,159
that's the reason why they put it in emotion then.

1545
01:10:02,159 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 3: Duck and what drives me crazy? True or even if

1546
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,159
it's not true. He claimed he didn't know about it,

1547
01:10:07,199 --> 01:10:10,840
which I find to be a if you didn't know

1548
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:12,079
about it, well either A you're.

1549
01:10:12,199 --> 01:10:13,039
Speaker 1: Covered it the other night.

1550
01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:15,159
Speaker 2: If I find out about it and you want to fight,

1551
01:10:15,279 --> 01:10:17,319
then say I want the fight or not a foreign

1552
01:10:17,319 --> 01:10:18,039
correct career?

1553
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 1: Right?

1554
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:20,720
Speaker 3: You got to pay attention to her. So anyway, so

1555
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:22,479
and this is out, who knows what he's gonna do.

1556
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,880
So they matched up Virgil Ortiz was Israel Majimov, who's

1557
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,399
coming off of a competitive fight where he lost the

1558
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:32,279
WBA title to Terrence Crawford in August. Now you might

1559
01:10:32,319 --> 01:10:33,800
look and when I first saw them, like, how can

1560
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:34,039
that be?

1561
01:10:34,159 --> 01:10:34,319
Speaker 1: Right?

1562
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 3: Let's remember this fight cards notun till February twenty second.

1563
01:10:38,039 --> 01:10:44,279
On December twenty first, Israel Madjamov has a extremely difficult,

1564
01:10:45,119 --> 01:10:48,680
arguably fifty to fifty fight against Sir hey Boachuk was

1565
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,439
coming off the Fight of the Year candidate, a very close,

1566
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,680
razor close loss against Virgil Ortiz, who he knocked down

1567
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:59,199
two times. And so here you have Israel Majamov's scheduling

1568
01:10:59,279 --> 01:11:02,479
a fight against Book on December twenty first, and his

1569
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:05,039
team has the audacity to then sign for a fight

1570
01:11:05,079 --> 01:11:08,399
in February A. He could easily lose the fight, which

1571
01:11:08,399 --> 01:11:10,520
means it won't happen. And even if he does win

1572
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,479
the fight, there's a very distinct possibility that that fight

1573
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,760
ends with both guys coming out dinged up and injured

1574
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:18,560
in some capacity that they wouldn't be ready for February. Now,

1575
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:20,159
I don't know what the backup plan is, but I

1576
01:11:20,199 --> 01:11:23,520
am sure by those there is a backup plan in place.

1577
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:25,560
They're just not saying who or what it is.

1578
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 2: And again Madromov, Bulletchuck is on the undercart of Usik

1579
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,119
Fury two, so it aligns here. But you're right, I

1580
01:11:32,119 --> 01:11:34,279
mean something could happen here in o'chez's another opponent.

1581
01:11:34,319 --> 01:11:38,399
Speaker 3: True, but if Madromov wins the fight, which is who

1582
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:40,560
knows if he does, and he's not injured and he

1583
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,560
is fighting virgual Orties, it may not be as sexy

1584
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,079
as the NS fight, but that a fight. So that

1585
01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:48,680
fight is I believe it when I see it. I

1586
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,359
think Ortiz will stay in the card. I have a

1587
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,199
very strong suspecially maybe fighting somebody else for the reasons

1588
01:11:53,279 --> 01:11:55,079
I just outlined. And then the other fight, this one

1589
01:11:55,079 --> 01:11:56,640
sort of came out of nowhere. Of being honest, I

1590
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:59,239
had not heard anything about this fight. You have the

1591
01:11:59,399 --> 01:12:02,119
WBO's in term light heavyweight title holder who was waiting

1592
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:04,399
for the opportunity because the big guys are fighting. The

1593
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:08,720
main event is Joshua Bowatzi defending against a former BBA

1594
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:11,800
title or Callum Smith. I suspect they were waiting for

1595
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,079
Callum Smith to come back off of that loss to

1596
01:12:14,159 --> 01:12:17,600
better BF. He won on the undercart in the way

1597
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,479
preliminaries like Deep Deep. I think it was the first

1598
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,119
fight of the night on the Before the Bell show

1599
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:26,279
when Galaii had the fight with Sonny Edwards that he

1600
01:12:26,319 --> 01:12:29,079
appeared on that show last week. So that's so if

1601
01:12:29,079 --> 01:12:31,279
you've got now that's kind of a surprise because Biwatzi

1602
01:12:31,279 --> 01:12:34,239
against Calum Smith in the UK if it happened instead

1603
01:12:34,239 --> 01:12:36,520
of in Saudi Arabia, that's like a big time main

1604
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:38,680
event on Sky Sports and it could probably fill up

1605
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,479
like an arena like the O Tour Manchester or wherever.

1606
01:12:42,119 --> 01:12:44,359
And here it's like the seventh fight down the show.

1607
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:46,079
Speaker 1: Interesting.

1608
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, a stacked, stacked card that we keep talking about

1609
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:50,880
for fIF We gotta wait till February though.

1610
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:52,399
Speaker 3: But by the way, not only is the stacked card,

1611
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:55,760
but Turkey has kept his word and saying he's reducing

1612
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,359
pay per view prices. He says this card, I believe

1613
01:12:58,359 --> 01:13:00,319
he said it's like twenty five ninety nine or twenty

1614
01:13:00,319 --> 01:13:03,880
four ninety nine, something like that. Point is that card

1615
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,439
for twenty five something dollars? That is absolutely amazing in

1616
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:08,600
today's day and age.

1617
01:13:09,359 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 2: And on to the nostalgia. Now, my friend and I

1618
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,239
don't I say this all the time. I had to

1619
01:13:15,279 --> 01:13:17,479
blink when I saw you put it on the nostalgia

1620
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:19,800
that it has been twenty five years. But I do

1621
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:25,399
remember this because I had had Winky Right Ronald Winky

1622
01:13:25,399 --> 01:13:27,119
Wright in the studio with me leading up with this

1623
01:13:27,119 --> 01:13:30,279
Fernando Vargas fight, and that was nineteen ninety nine, the.

1624
01:13:30,399 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 1: Y two K year.

1625
01:13:32,119 --> 01:13:35,520
Speaker 2: December, we were headed towards We thought like the dark

1626
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,640
ages with the Internet's gonna collapse. Remember bank accounts are

1627
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:41,199
going to freeze and whatever with Y two K. But

1628
01:13:41,319 --> 01:13:45,399
December fourth of nineteen ninety nine, Winky Wright fought Fernando

1629
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:50,279
Vargas in an HBO main event, and Vargas retained his

1630
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:54,199
title Rayhaield Wrights in a very close HBO fight. I

1631
01:13:54,239 --> 01:13:56,319
still believe to this day Winky was robbed. I think

1632
01:13:56,319 --> 01:13:59,479
Winky won that fight. But tell me what you remember

1633
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:01,640
and what you wrot call about it on its twenty

1634
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:02,600
fifth anniversary.

1635
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 3: This is a really good fight. I mean it's I

1636
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:06,840
won't say it's a classic, but it's a heck of

1637
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,359
a fight. This was a fight that was sort of

1638
01:14:09,399 --> 01:14:11,039
like a coming out party for Winky, who at that

1639
01:14:11,079 --> 01:14:13,000
point nowt Winky's in the Hall of Fame now well deserved.

1640
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:15,439
But he lost this fight. As as you mentioned, it

1641
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:17,279
was a majority decision. I also happened to think that

1642
01:14:17,319 --> 01:14:20,560
he was a rightful winner. Fernando, though at that time,

1643
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:23,560
was the up and coming superstar. He had the IBF

1644
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:25,760
one hundred and fifty four pound title. Winky was his

1645
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:29,239
mandatory challenger, and he came and he and so nobody

1646
01:14:29,279 --> 01:14:31,520
really Winky was not a well known commodity. Even though

1647
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:35,319
he's from Tampa Payint's Tampa Saint Pete area. He was

1648
01:14:35,359 --> 01:14:37,199
not a guy that had a big profile in the

1649
01:14:37,279 --> 01:14:40,159
United States. He had been fighting largely overseas. This was

1650
01:14:40,159 --> 01:14:43,600
like his first, like you know, big exposure fight on HBO,

1651
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:46,239
and it was turned out to be a very good fight.

1652
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,880
I thought he won. You thought he won. A lot

1653
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:51,640
of people thought he won. What he did do even

1654
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,600
if you if you didn't get to win, he did

1655
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:56,800
end Fernando Vargas's knockout streak he had started his career.

1656
01:14:57,119 --> 01:14:58,840
You know, he was seventeen and o coming to this fight.

1657
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,600
He had knocked out all his opponent. But this is

1658
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:03,960
obviously if you look at for Anando Vargus who happens

1659
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:05,279
to be on the Hall of Fame ballot. I've not

1660
01:15:05,359 --> 01:15:07,039
yet voted for him, nor do I think I ever

1661
01:15:07,079 --> 01:15:08,840
will not because I didn't think he was a heck

1662
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:10,880
of a great fighter to watch. But again I don't

1663
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:13,039
think he had necessarily the overall accomplishment, but he does

1664
01:15:13,079 --> 01:15:16,000
have two big wins. One of them is this Winkie

1665
01:15:16,039 --> 01:15:18,359
Right victory, whether you think it was close or otherwise.

1666
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:21,319
And then he followed this fight up against Quarte, a

1667
01:15:21,319 --> 01:15:23,920
well respected guy who was a long time welterweight champ

1668
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,560
who we defeated in a very clear decision, in a

1669
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:31,159
good fight also, But this was like the classic kind

1670
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:33,439
of HBO boxing. It for dark. They took a guy

1671
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:35,600
and Vargus who was a rising star. They matched him

1672
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:39,520
with a quality mandatory who went on to have several

1673
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,520
fights on HBO, and they made themselves a very good fight.

1674
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,760
And you know, I don't think a lot of people,

1675
01:15:46,119 --> 01:15:48,640
even if you thought he didn't win, Vargas certainly handled

1676
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:50,399
himself well in the fight. He fought a very tricky

1677
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:53,359
southpaw they had to fight. By the way, this was

1678
01:15:53,399 --> 01:15:55,319
not like in a big casino or in a big city.

1679
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:57,199
They did this fight about it, I mean they found

1680
01:15:57,239 --> 01:16:00,199
it in a small casino in Lincoln City, Oregon, or

1681
01:16:00,279 --> 01:16:03,520
andok wins casino. Some casino put up a few dollars.

1682
01:16:03,359 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 1: And they rest there.

1683
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:07,239
Speaker 2: I still remember hearing Winky talk about it a joke

1684
01:16:07,279 --> 01:16:09,359
with Dan Birmingham. They're like, if you knew what we

1685
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:11,520
had to go through to get to that local town

1686
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,279
and that little casino where HBO was going to have this,

1687
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:18,359
it's fascinating because again there's no connection to Vargas being

1688
01:16:18,359 --> 01:16:18,960
from that area.

1689
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:20,319
Speaker 1: Obviously Winky was from St.

1690
01:16:20,359 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 2: Pete, Florida, and they found that area to host a fight.

1691
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 3: What happens is a lot of these smaller casinos they

1692
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,159
wanted to bring in events and get their publicity on

1693
01:16:28,359 --> 01:16:30,960
HBO and see their logo and get their name out there,

1694
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:32,319
and so people.

1695
01:16:32,079 --> 01:16:34,039
Speaker 1: Could gamble, have people come there to gamble.

1696
01:16:34,119 --> 01:16:35,560
Speaker 3: They put up a site fee and they went there.

1697
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:37,439
The promoter took the fight because neither guy at that

1698
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,399
point was a big ticket seller. It was Vargas was

1699
01:16:40,399 --> 01:16:42,760
making his third defense. You know, he was known from HBO,

1700
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,359
and he'd been in the Olympics and everything, had become

1701
01:16:45,399 --> 01:16:48,119
the youngest junior middleway champion in history. And just by

1702
01:16:48,119 --> 01:16:49,560
the way, as far as you and me thinking that

1703
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:51,760
Winky run, I just looked this up. Our old pal,

1704
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,680
the late great Harold Letterman, the unofficial judge in HBO.

1705
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:57,039
He had Winky Wright winning this fight one fifteen to

1706
01:16:57,119 --> 01:16:59,479
one thirteen, So that tells you the kind of close

1707
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:02,000
competitive fight it was. But in the end it didn't

1708
01:17:02,039 --> 01:17:04,640
end up hurting Winky Right too much because ultimately he

1709
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:07,520
did get the opportunity against Sugar Shane Mosley. He became

1710
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:09,680
the undisputed champion, made big money and put on some

1711
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:12,319
big fights, beat Moseley twice, went on and beat Felix

1712
01:17:12,359 --> 01:17:16,119
Trinidad and had some other market tips for Fernando. You know,

1713
01:17:16,199 --> 01:17:17,560
he went on, like I mentioned, he had the quar

1714
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,439
K fight. A couple of fights after that. He had

1715
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:22,239
the massive fight against Felix Tito Trinida that we talked

1716
01:17:22,239 --> 01:17:24,680
about on the Last Best Show. Where was the anniversary?

1717
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 1: Just the anniversary, right right?

1718
01:17:26,039 --> 01:17:29,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, big fights against Oscar de la Joya, had two

1719
01:17:29,319 --> 01:17:31,399
fights against Sugar Shane Moley even though he lost, and

1720
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:33,479
you know, he had a lot of big fights also.

1721
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:36,399
So this is one of those like, oh wow, they

1722
01:17:36,399 --> 01:17:39,600
followed each other when it was not the names weren't

1723
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,560
as big as they became. I guess is the point.

1724
01:17:42,399 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 2: Yep, And I don't again, I can't believe that's nineteen

1725
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:48,640
ninety nine twenty five years ago. So advance forward nine

1726
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:53,720
years to Friday, and that's December sixth of two thousand

1727
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:55,840
and eight, sixteen years ago.

1728
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:56,760
Speaker 1: One.

1729
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 2: Manny Pacquiao, who you spent a lot of time talking

1730
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,359
about his whole Hall of Fame career, got the knockout

1731
01:18:02,399 --> 01:18:06,359
win over Oscar dala Hoya. All right, so tell me

1732
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:09,199
more about what you remember about that night.

1733
01:18:10,079 --> 01:18:12,159
Speaker 3: This is the biggest win of Manny pac Yo's career,

1734
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,439
first of all, in a career of all those big matchups,

1735
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:18,359
big fights, big events that we spoke about, this is

1736
01:18:18,399 --> 01:18:20,439
the big one. This is I think this is the

1737
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:23,920
defining victory of his career. This is as big as

1738
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:25,720
it got for Manny. First of all, he was the underdog.

1739
01:18:26,079 --> 01:18:28,359
People thought he was gonna get I don't want to

1740
01:18:28,359 --> 01:18:30,920
hear the Monday morning quarterback. I know Oscar looked terrible

1741
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:32,840
in the fight. He got beat up real bad, and

1742
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:35,079
it was he was destroyed and stopped in the eighth

1743
01:18:35,119 --> 01:18:38,560
round in the corner, ended up stopping the fight. He

1744
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,680
was the favorite, he was the bigger fighter. Many was

1745
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,960
jumping up from lightweight to welterweight, even though they had

1746
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:47,000
a catchweight of one forty five. I believe it was

1747
01:18:47,079 --> 01:18:50,199
or one forty six. The point here is this Manny

1748
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,239
was in a situation where people thought he was going

1749
01:18:53,279 --> 01:18:57,359
to get killed, like the Filipino like politicians over there

1750
01:18:57,399 --> 01:18:59,560
were like begging him not to do the fight. They

1751
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:01,520
didn't want the fight to happen. They were worried their

1752
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,119
national hero was going to be like disabled in the

1753
01:19:04,119 --> 01:19:06,079
fight and putting the hospital in the fight. That's how

1754
01:19:06,079 --> 01:19:08,960
big of a deal it was. And I mean to

1755
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:11,560
tell the backstory a little bit. I think I've told

1756
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:14,199
this before. The way did this fight ultimately came to

1757
01:19:14,239 --> 01:19:19,119
be was the result of me having a conversation like

1758
01:19:19,159 --> 01:19:21,319
I always did with my good friend Larry Merchant, and

1759
01:19:21,359 --> 01:19:24,560
we would talk about just shoot the shit on different

1760
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:26,640
things in the sport. And at one point we're having

1761
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,399
a conversation and we were talking about what Oscar should

1762
01:19:29,399 --> 01:19:32,359
do next, which was the biggest star in boxing that time,

1763
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,279
and he says he should fight Manny Pacyaw. I was like,

1764
01:19:35,399 --> 01:19:37,479
what are you a crazy old man? He's like, hear

1765
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:39,199
me out, and he went on and explained to me

1766
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:42,039
in detail about all the great fighters who had been

1767
01:19:42,079 --> 01:19:44,800
in smaller weight classes that jumped up considerable weight to

1768
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:47,600
have big events and big fights. He made the case,

1769
01:19:48,039 --> 01:19:50,119
and you know, I just thought he was crazy, and

1770
01:19:50,119 --> 01:19:51,640
we moved on to the next topic and then I

1771
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:54,840
started so whatever. That night, I'm literally I can still remember,

1772
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:57,920
I'm like laying in bed thinking about this. I swear

1773
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,600
to god. I called Larry back the next day. I said, Larry,

1774
01:20:03,119 --> 01:20:05,720
that was amazing. I thought about it overnight. I mean,

1775
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:07,880
I'm paraphrasing what I said to him, but I was like,

1776
01:20:08,079 --> 01:20:09,720
can you say some of that stuff again. I'd like

1777
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:11,159
to take some notes because I'd like to write a

1778
01:20:11,159 --> 01:20:14,319
column about this. And so we went through a bunch

1779
01:20:14,359 --> 01:20:17,000
of that stuff again and I took down some notes

1780
01:20:17,039 --> 01:20:19,920
on it, and I thanked him. And when we and

1781
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,640
Larry had the conversations on a regular basis for years

1782
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:24,840
and years and years and years. When we hung up

1783
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:27,159
the phone, I called Bob Aram, who was Oscar's promoter

1784
01:20:27,199 --> 01:20:29,600
at that time at top right, I said, Bob, hear

1785
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:31,640
me out. I was just talking to Larry Merchant. He's

1786
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:33,760
got an idea for Oscar's fight next fight. What do

1787
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:36,680
you think about this? And I told him, Manny pack yao.

1788
01:20:37,119 --> 01:20:38,560
And there were silence on the other end of the

1789
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:39,760
phone and I didn't know if Bob was going to

1790
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:41,880
scream at me like you're a fucking idiot, or he

1791
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:43,079
was going to embrace it, or.

1792
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:46,319
Speaker 2: Which has which by the way, has happened on one occasion,

1793
01:20:46,359 --> 01:20:47,840
but did not happen on this occasion.

1794
01:20:48,119 --> 01:20:50,800
Speaker 3: So he paused, and I mean it was probably just

1795
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:52,680
a few seconds, but it felt like about ten minutes.

1796
01:20:53,119 --> 01:20:55,760
And he finally you could tell he was like his

1797
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:59,560
mind was like processing this, he says, after like a

1798
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:03,439
long like silence, he says, well, take it. Like he

1799
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:06,720
realized what a fucking huge fight that could be. And

1800
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:09,640
obviously he felt like Oscar could win the fight. Uh,

1801
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:11,439
and would be you know the guy that to uh

1802
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,640
or that that you know, the pacyw. I mean, I'm

1803
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:17,760
sorry he was with Packy. He knew Pakyaw what he'd

1804
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:20,039
been doing, and and even if he didn't win, it

1805
01:21:20,039 --> 01:21:22,600
was still such a great opportunity for such a big megafight.

1806
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:27,760
It didn't happen immediately, but that that was in Bob's mind,

1807
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:30,720
and and it became public with what I wrote about

1808
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,079
it and on ESPN, and it became like a big thing.

1809
01:21:33,319 --> 01:21:35,479
If there was such a thing as as an idea

1810
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,760
going viral, this is before social media. That was sort

1811
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:42,479
of it. They called it like Larry called it like

1812
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,399
like the dream kind of fight, and ultimately when they

1813
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,399
titled the fight, they called it the dream fight or

1814
01:21:47,399 --> 01:21:49,560
the dream match or something like that because it was

1815
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:52,479
Larry's dream. I'm not taking credit for the fight idea.

1816
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:54,760
I'm just the guy that was the conduit and wrote

1817
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:58,000
about it. But ultimately the fight did happen. Keep in mind,

1818
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:01,960
Nanny in in two and eight, he had defeated Juan

1819
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:05,079
Manuel Marquez in their rematch. This was at one hundred

1820
01:22:05,079 --> 01:22:07,439
and thirty pounds in a world title fight. He went

1821
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:09,840
up in weight in his next fight and he took

1822
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,319
on David Diaz, who was the WBC's champion at one

1823
01:22:12,359 --> 01:22:15,479
hundred and thirty five pounds, and he absolutely decimated DZ. Now.

1824
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:17,039
When he went up, a lot of people were worried,

1825
01:22:17,119 --> 01:22:19,159
you know, man, he'd been a flyweight. Can he handle

1826
01:22:19,199 --> 01:22:21,640
the big guy at thirty five? And when he absolutely

1827
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:25,199
destroyed David Diaz, now, it became a thought in many

1828
01:22:25,199 --> 01:22:27,239
people's minds that he could go up another weight division.

1829
01:22:27,239 --> 01:22:29,960
They didn't necessarily think one forty seven for de la Hoya,

1830
01:22:30,199 --> 01:22:32,079
but certainly the idea was there for one forty, but

1831
01:22:32,119 --> 01:22:34,960
he jumped up the two divisions and he absolutely shredded

1832
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,560
Oscar in that fight with as I mentioned, you know,

1833
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:41,239
and as one side of the fight as you could

1834
01:22:41,239 --> 01:22:44,199
possibly imagine. I mean, I can still hear Jim Lampley

1835
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:47,279
call in the fight. You know, you know, you know

1836
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:50,840
about how badly one of the lines in the fight was,

1837
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:53,560
you know, Manny Packett was annihilating Oscar de la Hooya

1838
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,359
and it was a tough call. Tony Weeks the referee,

1839
01:22:55,359 --> 01:22:58,199
as Lampley is explaining, saying what we're all thinking. You know,

1840
01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:00,199
there's a lot of money and a lot of a

1841
01:23:00,239 --> 01:23:01,960
lot of history in Oscar de la Hoy, a lot

1842
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:03,880
of big fights, like he's got to make this decision

1843
01:23:04,199 --> 01:23:07,520
about whether to stop it. And eventually in the corner,

1844
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,039
you know, Oscar kind of slumped over let his trainer,

1845
01:23:10,039 --> 01:23:12,920
who was Nacho Bearistein at the time, make that call.

1846
01:23:13,119 --> 01:23:16,279
As Larry Merchant said, as I remember him saying, you know,

1847
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:20,199
death by a thousand left hands, because Many packedale it

1848
01:23:20,239 --> 01:23:23,000
was like annihilated him with his straight left hand, you know,

1849
01:23:23,039 --> 01:23:26,960
Many being a being a southpaw and just beat the

1850
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,680
living shit out of Oscar, who ended up losing and

1851
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:32,319
then several months later announced his retirement. Never actually did

1852
01:23:32,359 --> 01:23:34,920
come back, but that was the defining fight because that

1853
01:23:35,119 --> 01:23:37,159
was really the David Ds fight. Was a big win,

1854
01:23:37,199 --> 01:23:39,039
but you beat Oscar de Loye and then he went

1855
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:41,640
in a row. He went back to one forty, he

1856
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:43,920
blew away Ricky Hatten in the second round for the

1857
01:23:44,119 --> 01:23:46,800
lineal title at one forty, went back up to welterweight

1858
01:23:47,399 --> 01:23:49,159
at the end of nine and he knocked out in

1859
01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:51,279
a great fight against Miguel Coda to win the WBO

1860
01:23:51,319 --> 01:23:54,039
welterweight title. Then he beat Joshua Claudy, then he beat

1861
01:23:54,039 --> 01:23:56,279
Margarito fifty to fifty four pound title. Then he slaughtered

1862
01:23:56,359 --> 01:23:57,760
Chaine Mosey won.

1863
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:00,279
Speaker 2: Year and a half year period is a Hall of

1864
01:24:00,279 --> 01:24:04,199
Fame career in and of itself there and then he.

1865
01:24:04,279 --> 01:24:06,600
Speaker 3: Then he lost to Tim Bradley in a bullshit call.

1866
01:24:07,159 --> 01:24:09,000
And then it was finally in now Till twenty twelve

1867
01:24:09,039 --> 01:24:12,000
where he got face planted by one Manuel Marquez in

1868
01:24:12,039 --> 01:24:14,680
their fourth fight, And even after that he came back

1869
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:18,000
and beat Rios and Bradley again and Algery and then

1870
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:20,880
finally came the big fight against Mayweather and even after

1871
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:22,920
the Mayweather fight, he had some other big wins against

1872
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:26,119
Bradley again and you know Broner and Thurman and Matisse.

1873
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:29,319
But the Deloya fight was really what started the incredible

1874
01:24:29,359 --> 01:24:33,800
run and it was a huge event. Las Vegas was

1875
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,000
on fire that week in terms of the star power

1876
01:24:36,279 --> 01:24:38,359
and the celebrities that showed up at that fight and

1877
01:24:38,359 --> 01:24:40,399
the I mean I can still like remember walking through

1878
01:24:40,399 --> 01:24:43,199
the casino like on like on the night before the fight,

1879
01:24:43,239 --> 01:24:46,880
and you could not go anywhere. It didn't matter what

1880
01:24:47,079 --> 01:24:49,680
corner of that casino or that that floor you're on.

1881
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:52,439
People were talking about the fight. I mean, it's like

1882
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:53,920
that for a lot of big fights today because I've

1883
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:55,800
been there for so many. Of course, this one in

1884
01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:00,279
particular was the anticipation, even though a lot of people

1885
01:25:00,279 --> 01:25:01,760
thought it was a one sided fight, but you had

1886
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:06,119
such star magnitude. Pacio was this rising star, super exciting.

1887
01:25:06,359 --> 01:25:08,600
Oscar was the king of pay per view, you know,

1888
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,840
the face of boxing for the previous decade, and that

1889
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:14,720
matchup was a hot fight, as they say, and it

1890
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:16,960
turned out to be a devastation and you.

1891
01:25:17,039 --> 01:25:20,199
Speaker 2: Said it, you believe it's Pacquiao's greatest win, and you

1892
01:25:20,239 --> 01:25:22,880
went through the litany of all the fights. When you

1893
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:25,159
were talking about his Hall of Fame induction, how about

1894
01:25:25,159 --> 01:25:28,199
that bringing full circle that almost to the day he

1895
01:25:28,359 --> 01:25:31,000
finds out he's going into the International Boxing Hall of

1896
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:35,279
Fame Pacquiao and others. Wow, all right, it seems like

1897
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:38,319
last week, but earlier in this podcast, we told you

1898
01:25:38,399 --> 01:25:41,359
we have got multiple world title fights, two of them

1899
01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:42,199
in Phoenix.

1900
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 1: We look forward to what's.

1901
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 2: Going to happen with Navarate Valdez and the rematch of

1902
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:53,039
both rematches of robes C. Ramirez and Rafael Espinoza. That's

1903
01:25:53,079 --> 01:25:57,239
the top rank ESPN show. Simultaneous in Puerto Rico, Liam

1904
01:25:57,319 --> 01:26:00,279
Parro defending his one hundred and forty pound time title

1905
01:26:01,279 --> 01:26:05,359
as well against Richardson Hitchens. We'll handicap those fights on

1906
01:26:05,399 --> 01:26:08,520
the bet Us Boxing Show one Eastern time on Friday.

1907
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:12,039
Come find us there and then whatever happens, Big Dan,

1908
01:26:12,079 --> 01:26:14,119
we're here with a recap podcast coming off the weekend.

1909
01:26:14,159 --> 01:26:18,560
Should be quite a weekend, including your heavyweight tilt there

1910
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:19,600
with char and.

1911
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 1: Who Lev and whatever happens with that. I look forward

1912
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:23,399
to all of it. Why don't we.

1913
01:26:23,399 --> 01:26:25,640
Speaker 2: Reconvene on the bet US Show coming up one Eastern

1914
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:26,000
time on.

1915
01:26:25,960 --> 01:26:28,439
Speaker 3: Friday, sound good, that sounds good, and.

1916
01:26:28,359 --> 01:26:31,159
Speaker 2: Then a recap podcast here on this feet follow, subscribe,

1917
01:26:31,239 --> 01:26:33,720
rate US, review US, Apple, Sprinker, Spotify.

1918
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:36,279
Speaker 1: We preview going into the weekend. Recap coming off a

1919
01:26:36,279 --> 01:26:37,279
weekend for Dan Rayfield.

1920
01:26:37,279 --> 01:26:40,119
Speaker 2: I'm TJ Reef. You've been part of the Big Fight

1921
01:26:40,239 --> 01:26:41,399
weekend preview pot