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Speaker 5: Love Radio, You are now listening to True Murder, the
Speaker 5: most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors
Speaker 5: that have written about them.
Speaker 3: Geesy Bundy Dahmer the Nightstalker VTK. Every week another fascinating
Speaker 3: author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in
Speaker 3: true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and
Speaker 3: author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 7: Good evening, This is your host Danzupaski for the program
Speaker 7: True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history
Speaker 7: and the authors that have written about them. My program
Speaker 7: tonight was going to be with Linda Rosenkrantz and she
Speaker 7: was going to be discussing her book Ripper. However, I
Speaker 7: got a call today from her and she had to
Speaker 7: cancel and we've rescheduled the interview for April twenty eighth,
Speaker 7: So that's in two weeks Linda rosen Krantz will be
Speaker 7: talking about her book Ripper. I've taken this opportunity this
Speaker 7: evening because it's really hard to book anyone else, and
Speaker 7: it really is an opportune time because my book, my
Speaker 7: first book, my true crime nonfiction book, Trophy Kill, Shall
Speaker 7: We Dance?
Speaker 8: Murder?
Speaker 7: The Trial and Revelations of a Psychopathic Killer is released
Speaker 7: once to be released today on the fifteenth, and however,
Speaker 7: there's been a delay at the printing of the printers
Speaker 7: and it will be released However, on Friday. However, if
Speaker 7: you were to go to my website trophy Kill dot
Speaker 7: tv or the publisher's website pro Hiptick and Publishing in Toronto,
Speaker 7: you are able to advance order the book and save
Speaker 7: two or three dollars as a result of this. So
Speaker 7: you can go to trophy kill dot tv for for
Speaker 7: the book if you'd like. And what I'm going to
Speaker 7: do tonight is talk about the book and I'm going
Speaker 7: to open the lines so that if anybody would like
Speaker 7: to call and talk about this. I have had a
Speaker 7: video out posted on YouTube again directing people to the
Speaker 7: website trophy kill dot tv for since May of two
Speaker 7: thousand and eight, for a couple of years, so we
Speaker 7: didn't in some advance promotion of this book for quite
Speaker 7: a while. Let me just introduce the story for those
Speaker 7: people that do not know. I had done an earlier
Speaker 7: program concerning this book, but this will be a little
Speaker 7: bit different. We get people to call in and ask
Speaker 7: questions specifically about the book, things that they are interested
Speaker 7: in knowing about specifically. On July first, two thousand and three,
Speaker 7: the Miramax movie Shall We Dance starring Jennifer Lopez, Susan
Speaker 7: Sarandon and Richard gear was being filmed in Winnipeg. The
Speaker 7: next day, Sidney Tearshuse walked into a police station, claimed
Speaker 7: that he had awoken from a drunken blackout to discover
Speaker 7: a man dead in the bathtub. He maintained he had
Speaker 7: no memory of the killing. Police discovered the victim cut
Speaker 7: into eight pieces, decapitated, disemboweled, sawn in half with all
Speaker 7: of the internal organs missing. The dismembered and mutilated corpse
Speaker 7: was pose crudely re assembled with Susan Sarandon's gold necklace
Speaker 7: found a few feet away from.
Speaker 8: The murder order horror spectacle.
Speaker 7: Through a faithful turn of events, journalist Dan Sapaski has
Speaker 7: an opportunity to correspond with the killer. He gains his
Speaker 7: trust and has eventually sent a series of shocking letters
Speaker 7: and diagrams outlining every graphic and horrific detail of the
Speaker 7: order of the murder, organ removal and sex with the corpse.
Speaker 7: Contacts authorities with the evidence he has and is suddenly
Speaker 7: thrust into the trial as the prosecution star witness testifying
Speaker 7: against the killer, desperate to see him sentenced to life
Speaker 7: in prison. Prosecutors have the burden to prove that Sidney
Speaker 7: had the necessary intent to kill. If they fail, Sidney
Speaker 7: walks the streets again discover the incredible rule that Susan
Speaker 7: Sarandon stole the necklace had in the motive for one
Speaker 7: of the most horrifying murders of all time, Trophy Killed.
Speaker 7: The Shall We Dance Murder? The Trial and Revelations of
Speaker 7: a Psychopathic Killer? And what are included are the killers revelations,
Speaker 7: trial transcripts, and fifteen pages of shocking drawings. So what
Speaker 7: we're gonna do is go to our caller now and
Speaker 7: see what we have and see what this person is
Speaker 7: interested in knowing about this. I have to say, if
Speaker 7: I have to say myself, a very very interesting and
Speaker 7: incredible story.
Speaker 8: Yes, caller, do you good.
Speaker 7: Evening and welcome to the program.
Speaker 4: Hi, my name is John. How you doing, mister Sepanski.
Speaker 8: Oh very good? Thank you.
Speaker 4: First off, I just want to say found out about
Speaker 4: your book from cool video I saw on YouTube a
Speaker 4: few months ago, and then I visited your website. A
Speaker 4: few questions. First of all, it must be nice, so
Speaker 4: this is a question. But first one must be nice
Speaker 4: to have a big budget, very nice video. And is
Speaker 4: there a documentary about the trial.
Speaker 8: Well, that's a good question.
Speaker 7: There is a planned and always was a planned accompanying
Speaker 7: documentary about the trial, about the case itself, and we
Speaker 7: just want to make it simply call it Trophy Kill
Speaker 7: as well. That documentary is still not finished, but we've
Speaker 7: taken the footage from the planned documentary and the video
Speaker 7: that you saw. Like I said at the opening of
Speaker 7: the show, we posted that on YouTube a couple of
Speaker 7: years ago and on my website as well, Trophy Guilt
Speaker 7: dot tv. We also have in the next couple of days,
Speaker 7: as part of our promotion for the book, two more
Speaker 7: videos that are going to be posted on YouTube and
Speaker 7: all kinds of other video sharing sites that are very
Speaker 7: popular these days, and that is one of the ways
Speaker 7: that we're going to be promoting our book. So I'm
Speaker 7: really happy to hear John that you did get to
Speaker 7: see that video on YouTube and that directed you to
Speaker 7: our website.
Speaker 8: What else would you.
Speaker 7: Like to know about?
Speaker 4: Wanted to know why call the book Trophy Kill and
Speaker 4: who came up with the title.
Speaker 7: Well, the book the killer himself, Sidney Teerhuse wanted the
Speaker 7: book to be called Trophy Kill. And the reason why
Speaker 7: pick Trophy Kill wasn't necessarily because he wanted that title,
Speaker 7: but the most important reason was that it's the most
Speaker 7: appropriate title for the book. And I don't want to
Speaker 7: give everything away, but if people were to know what
Speaker 7: a trophy kill is, and I think most people do
Speaker 7: know what the definition of a trophy kill is, a
Speaker 7: controlled kill. It usually refers, it does refer to hunters
Speaker 7: that are that pay to go somewhere and hunt game,
Speaker 7: and and and then are guaranteed that they're going to
Speaker 7: get this what they call trophy kill. Like I said,
Speaker 7: it's the most appropriate title for the book, and it
Speaker 7: just so happens that it is the title that the killer.
Speaker 8: Actually wanted for the book itself. That's that answer to.
Speaker 4: Actually implement that that his victim is is like a
Speaker 4: deer or something he slaughtered like a game.
Speaker 7: Well, I don't want to, I want to. I don't
Speaker 7: want to give everything away from the book itself, but
Speaker 7: he does refer if you read the trial transcripts that
Speaker 7: are on the website itself, he does refer to the
Speaker 7: to the victim as a human trophy. So let's just
Speaker 7: keep it at that. You will you read the actual documents.
Speaker 7: What's interesting that I had the opportunity to purchase the transcripts.
Speaker 7: I was corresponding with the killer himself. So the actual
Speaker 7: documentation is one of the big features of this book.
Speaker 7: The actual authentic documentation is included in this book.
Speaker 4: Well, I see, I know that Susan strandon stolen jewelry
Speaker 4: was found at the crime scene. But while also title
Speaker 4: the book shall We Dance Murders? Like, what does their
Speaker 4: stolen necklace have to do with this story?
Speaker 7: Well, the thing is, as I mentioned before, the jewelry
Speaker 7: was found at the crime scene, very close to the
Speaker 7: victim's dismembered and mutilated body, and very quickly the police
Speaker 7: determined from whatever I'm not sure for what reason, but
Speaker 7: they determined that the necklace had nothing to do with
Speaker 7: the crime scene itself. I won't go into too much
Speaker 7: because that would be another story of what I think
Speaker 7: the reason why the police determined that this necklace and
Speaker 7: the stolen jewelry was not part of the motive for this.
Speaker 7: But in the book, as I've said, what you discovered
Speaker 7: the shocking role that Susan Sarandon's jewelry did have in
Speaker 7: this And I will just tell you that you're going
Speaker 7: to have to read the book if you really want
Speaker 7: to find that out. It's a little too involved what
Speaker 7: it's about, but definitely Susan Sarandon's stolen jewelry is involved
Speaker 7: in the motive for this killing, despite what the police
Speaker 7: determined very very early on. And I won't go around
Speaker 7: to it too much more, but I'm telling you that
Speaker 7: there is a very good reason why the jewelry is stole,
Speaker 7: and it is a very interesting story. How the jewelry
Speaker 7: becomes involved or is involved with the directly with the
Speaker 7: motive for this killing itself interesting.
Speaker 4: And how did you get involved with this case?
Speaker 7: I got involved with this case a gentleman that I
Speaker 7: know was called me from a remand center awaiting some charges.
Speaker 7: And I wouldn't say whether we were close friends, but
Speaker 7: we were associates and I had met him originally in
Speaker 7: thunder Bay. We went to high school together. So this
Speaker 7: is many years later. He had moved to Winnipeg. I
Speaker 7: had relocated to Winnipeg in nineteen ninety four. He had
Speaker 7: relocated I think a few years before, so we had
Speaker 7: bumped into each other a few times and he had
Speaker 7: visited my home and shortly after that he called me
Speaker 7: from the Reman center and said listen, I've been in
Speaker 7: some trouble. These charges are they aren't going to stick,
Speaker 7: and they didn't stick. They were charges that were eventually dropped.
Speaker 7: But the reason why he asked me to call him
Speaker 7: was because I guess that's you know, it's a lonely
Speaker 7: time being incarcerated. I don't know, but I was good
Speaker 7: enough to at least correspond with him. A few months
Speaker 7: after our correspondence began. He'd give me a call, maybe
Speaker 7: once a week or so, and he asked me who
Speaker 7: was in his two guests, who was in the same
Speaker 7: jail range as he was. I had no idea he
Speaker 7: had mentioned the name Sidney Tierhughes. The name didn't click immediately.
Speaker 7: The murder itself had occurred in July, and I was
Speaker 7: speaking to my friend on the telephone about his cellmate
Speaker 7: or his his now roommate here Sidney Tierhues about six
Speaker 7: months later in January. So but when he mentioned that
Speaker 7: this was the person that had cut up the person
Speaker 7: at the Royal Albert, of course I remembered I had
Speaker 7: cut out the clippings from the newspaper. I'd been doing
Speaker 7: a radio show for about three years at that time.
Speaker 7: One of the things I was interested in was the
Speaker 7: law and some of the things I had seen that
Speaker 7: I was opposed to, and so I asked my friend
Speaker 7: if he could ask Sydney Tierhues, the killer if he'd
Speaker 7: be interested in an interview, and to go back just
Speaker 7: a little bit. As soon as the killer was arrested,
Speaker 7: he was granting interviews to the media, particularly the Winnipeg
Speaker 7: Sun in Winnipeg, and of interviews, which, as you may
Speaker 7: know or not know, it's it's kind of unusual for
Speaker 7: somebody to do that. So I recognize this person wanted
Speaker 7: to talk, and as a result, I thought, well, maybe
Speaker 7: this would be a really good opportunity to write a
Speaker 7: book here.
Speaker 8: And it was.
Speaker 7: More intuition than anything else, but I decided to do
Speaker 7: that ask my friend if he could ask Sidney Tierhuse
Speaker 7: if he was interested, and of course he was. So
Speaker 7: that's that's where how I got involved with this case.
Speaker 4: In this story, understand, this murder occurred in Canada, but
Speaker 4: it sounds like an open and shutcase, you know, And
Speaker 4: I'm sure one day he might be released on parole,
Speaker 4: but there's no way he'd be able to get paroleed before.
Speaker 4: He's a very old man, not after admitting to the
Speaker 4: bizarre killing, coming in admitting to it, and you know.
Speaker 7: Well, the thing is, I think you're living in the US.
Speaker 7: You're not familiar with Canadian law.
Speaker 8: We do have completely.
Speaker 4: Difference than like this remand I didn't understand that things
Speaker 4: are a little different. But there's no way he'd be
Speaker 4: eligible for parole because this guy, you know, with all
Speaker 4: the heinous, you know, all the stuff he's done to
Speaker 4: this individual, that there's no way that he'd be out
Speaker 4: till he's an old man because he's what in his
Speaker 4: thirty so he probably you know, for at least thirty
Speaker 4: forty years.
Speaker 7: Well, that's not the way it works, bard me. What
Speaker 7: happens is that the parole is set. There is no
Speaker 7: actual life sentences in Canada. There is no such sentence
Speaker 7: as an actual life sentence without parole, so there's no
Speaker 7: we start off with that. We obviously we don't have
Speaker 7: the death penalty, and a lot of the states in
Speaker 7: the US don't have the death penalty. Lots of states
Speaker 7: in the US aren't actually executing people even though they
Speaker 7: have a death penalty. But the way we start is
Speaker 7: that we we do not have a sentence of life
Speaker 7: without parole we do not have.
Speaker 8: Say, you might may have.
Speaker 7: Heard of of Robert Picton in British Columbia, the pig
Speaker 7: farmer that is accused of killing up to upwards of
Speaker 7: forty nine women. However, he was tried for six women,
Speaker 7: and despite being sentenced for six murders, he still only
Speaker 7: is charged with one. In terms of sentencing only there's
Speaker 7: only there's only a consecutive there is no consecutive sentencing.
Speaker 7: It's called concurrent sentencing.
Speaker 8: So we also have.
Speaker 7: A even voluntary intoxication can result in a charge being
Speaker 7: reduced from first or second degree murder to manslaughter, even
Speaker 7: though manslaughter a life sentence is allowable in following precedent.
Speaker 7: According to what the Canadian law says, a lot of
Speaker 7: these sentences are around four years in total for something
Speaker 7: that maybe would.
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Speaker 7: No, we're just necessarily d void where everybody lost in
Speaker 7: terms conditions eighty plus.
Speaker 8: Be considered murder.
Speaker 7: In the United States, we are having cases where it's
Speaker 7: considered manslaughter because alcohol is involved or provocation is involved.
Speaker 7: And we had just said something that was just changed
Speaker 7: by the conservative government, which is very similar to your
Speaker 7: Republican government, a more conservative government, where that government ended
Speaker 7: the two for one credit for pre trial custody time,
Speaker 7: so a person would spend say three years in custody
Speaker 7: awaiting their trial, that would count as six years. So
Speaker 7: you can see that how you could get easily in
Speaker 7: three or four years somebody released from prison doing their
Speaker 7: full time for a charge that would in the United
Speaker 7: States and other jurisdictions in the world will be considered murder.
Speaker 7: So there is that difference in Canadian laws. So why
Speaker 7: there was this urgency in this desperation for me and
Speaker 7: why I was personally afraid of anything other than this
Speaker 7: person being convicted a second to be murder, is that
Speaker 7: certainly if he was convicted of manslaughter, he would be
Speaker 7: out before he's forty years of age, and he would
Speaker 7: realize that I testified against him and betrayed him, and
Speaker 7: there's much more to the story. Anybody that's capable of
Speaker 7: doing this, in my personal belief, should never be released
Speaker 7: from prison or let alone.
Speaker 8: In a few years. There is no fixing.
Speaker 7: And that's why the title of it. You know, I
Speaker 7: do call talk about the psychopath mind and consider this
Speaker 7: a psychopathic killer. So I'm maybe getting a little bit
Speaker 7: ahead of you some of these questions.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I didn't know that about the Canadian law,
Speaker 4: it's quite different. But did Sidney terryu'se pay for his defense?
Speaker 4: And who was his lawyer?
Speaker 7: Well, in Canadian law unlike again American law, and I'll continue,
Speaker 7: is that in American law, if you do not have
Speaker 7: the funds for defense counsel, then a lawyer will be
Speaker 7: appointed to you. And that lawyer that you're appointed doesn't
Speaker 7: mean you're bound to use that lawyer. But that's the
Speaker 7: way it works. You do not have your personal choice
Speaker 7: of whatever lawyer you want, maybe a lawyer in another state.
Speaker 7: It doesn't quite work that way in the United States.
Speaker 7: Of America where in Canada. The lawyer in this particular case,
Speaker 7: to show you a really good example, has defended more
Speaker 7: killers than anybody else in the English speaking world. And
Speaker 7: he's almost that seven hundred cases, which I don't know
Speaker 7: if you that sounds like a lot of cases, but
Speaker 7: it is to put in perspective, he has the most.
Speaker 7: He has conducted the most and been involved with the
Speaker 7: most murder trials in the English speaking world, which means
Speaker 7: there's not many more people that have ever been involved
Speaker 7: with more murder cases. Now, the government paid for this trial,
Speaker 7: and many and most murder trials are paid by the government,
Speaker 7: so it's a little different rule. And this lawyer being
Speaker 7: that experience. Again, I have a little bit of a
Speaker 7: problem with a lawyer gaining this much experience on the
Speaker 7: public tab. And then another part of the story. Again
Speaker 7: I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, But the
Speaker 7: book does talk about what that lawyer will do in
Speaker 7: his mind, how he defines his obligations as a as
Speaker 7: a lawyer, and specifically, what I talk about is that
Speaker 7: under any type of the the foundation of the law
Speaker 7: itself or a couple of rules, and one of those
Speaker 7: rules is that the defense lawyers not to lie on
Speaker 7: his client's behalf, nor put his client up on the
Speaker 7: stand to lie to perjure himself.
Speaker 4: You're holding out here. You got to you gotta let
Speaker 4: the counter of the bank who is this lawyer and
Speaker 4: give some famous cases he's known for. You can't keep
Speaker 4: us in suspense until the book comes out. Come on
Speaker 4: the public ones to know well.
Speaker 7: The lawyer's name is Greg Brodsky, and Greg Brodsky is
Speaker 7: a well known Winnipeg lawyer, but operates in a couple
Speaker 7: other provinces, and his the case he's well known for
Speaker 7: is is battered Women's syndrome, and that case he's spearheaded
Speaker 7: in Canadian courts, it had been it had been decided
Speaker 7: in American courts.
Speaker 8: I just previous to that.
Speaker 7: I think the case that people would remember the most
Speaker 7: about him, if especially in America, would be that he
Speaker 7: was on He was on the defense for Paul Bernardo
Speaker 7: in his appeal after his murder trial. Carlo Hamlco Paul Bernardo,
Speaker 7: famous Barbie and Ken murder torture couple. Anyway, these guys
Speaker 7: were so.
Speaker 8: Well.
Speaker 7: I mean, I don't have any problem with a lawyer
Speaker 7: defending anyone. Someone has to defend these people, and that's
Speaker 7: the cornerstone of our judicial system. I think people get
Speaker 7: that wrong and don't misunderstand my position. It's just the
Speaker 7: extent what will Again, I don't want to get into
Speaker 7: this dry conversation.
Speaker 8: But it is.
Speaker 7: You know, there is a part of the book we'll
Speaker 7: talk about what his responsibilities are. What I did was
Speaker 7: I was a bit snaky, I got to admit, and
Speaker 7: I was corresponding with the Greg Brodsky's client for a year.
Speaker 7: I had all kinds of information and I was doing
Speaker 7: my radio show and I asked Greg Brosky to come
Speaker 7: on my radio program to interview him. And like he
Speaker 7: asked at the trial, he says, well, you were trying
Speaker 7: to discredit this case. What I was trying to do
Speaker 7: with the information that I had was just find out
Speaker 7: what this whole process was. This was an incredible learning
Speaker 7: experience for me, and so what I wanted to know
Speaker 7: was how if you are not to tell a lie,
Speaker 7: and you're not to let your client tell a lie
Speaker 7: on the stand, then how do you determine the truth.
Speaker 7: Maybe I'm being really simplistic about it, but that's what
Speaker 7: I wanted to know.
Speaker 8: Pardon me that sounds pretty straightforward to me.
Speaker 4: But there's another title of this book, the Trial Revelations
Speaker 4: of a Psychopathic Killer. What did the killer reveal to you?
Speaker 4: And why would he do that?
Speaker 7: I don't want to give everything away, but what he
Speaker 7: did reveal to me was the time of death, the motive,
Speaker 7: as far as I'm concerned, and I did save my
Speaker 7: bit in court about that, where the organs were, with
Speaker 7: the whereabouts of those missing organs, which I thought was
Speaker 7: very important. It also clearly refuted that he couldn't remember
Speaker 7: any details of this surgery. Basically, he revealed evidence to
Speaker 7: me that ended up being corroborating physical evidence or other
Speaker 7: forensic pardon me, other forensic evidence at the trial. The
Speaker 7: information that he revealed to me, as the newspapers, the
Speaker 7: free press, the son, the judge, the crown, everybody admitted
Speaker 7: was the most important part of the trial.
Speaker 4: What was it Rick hearing and reading about all those
Speaker 4: murder and dismemberment details and all that gory.
Speaker 7: Well, I got to say, well, I got to say
Speaker 7: it was real difficult in the year because he would
Speaker 7: call me on the telephone and he would obviously sent
Speaker 7: me letters. There was some information that he might tell
Speaker 7: me on the telephone and I would say, well, you
Speaker 7: should include that in your next letter. Write that down.
Speaker 7: So he really we really did have a book project
Speaker 7: that was going on together. He did realize we were
Speaker 7: writing a book, and the information that he told me
Speaker 7: that ended up being the evidence at the trial because
Speaker 7: I came forward. I came forward and said, this is evidence.
Speaker 7: I'm not going to hold back on this. I'm going
Speaker 7: to bring this evidence to the Crown attorney that the
Speaker 7: prosecutor in this trial because this is evidence. I asked
Speaker 7: a couple of journalists, one journalist that I was very
Speaker 7: friendly with, and they said, you don't have to go
Speaker 7: to the prosecution with this evidence till laughter the preliminary
Speaker 7: is over. However, when I talked to a law professor
Speaker 7: from Toronto and a former Crown attorney, they said, no, no,
Speaker 7: you should. You know, you have the moral obligation to
Speaker 7: bring this stuff forward because it is evidence, because it
Speaker 7: speaks to motive and physical evidence like the whereabouts of
Speaker 7: the organs itself.
Speaker 8: So what was it like?
Speaker 7: It was incredible. I got to admit, in a weird way,
Speaker 7: was exciting to be getting this kind of information because
Speaker 7: I had read these kinds of books not that these
Speaker 7: are the only kind of books I ever read, but
Speaker 7: it was communicating with a genuine psychopath. I mean, slowly
Speaker 7: but surely he revealed himself to have that kind of
Speaker 7: mindset where a psychopath will be talking about something very
Speaker 7: serious and then talk about something that real, insipid, real inconsequential.
Speaker 7: And that's even a poor example, but it took a
Speaker 7: fair amount of time.
Speaker 8: Before the details of the actual.
Speaker 7: Killing came out. Before that, he gave me incredible amount
Speaker 7: of information about his background, about his life. He was
Speaker 7: adopted when he was just an infant, or put into
Speaker 7: foster home, and the people that brought that had him
Speaker 7: into foster home eventually adopted him three years later. But
Speaker 7: he was an Aboriginal Aboriginal man, a young person adopted
Speaker 7: and brought from a small community of about three hundred
Speaker 7: and fifty people where he would have been raised and
Speaker 7: where his family was.
Speaker 8: He instead was.
Speaker 7: Raised by a family named Tyrhuse, which is a Dutch name,
Speaker 7: and these people are not Aboriginal. And he was raised
Speaker 7: in the city, you know, eighth biggest city in Canada,
Speaker 7: Winnipeg is and he come from this little place like
Speaker 7: three hundred and fifty people, a Remote Reserve.
Speaker 8: Ah, I was.
Speaker 4: Just I was I'm sorry to jump to jump for
Speaker 4: the question when you mentioned earlier. Is in the back
Speaker 4: of my mind. I'm sure a lot of other listeners
Speaker 4: are are curious, what did the killer do with the victims?
Speaker 8: Organs, Well, you're gonna have to read the book.
Speaker 7: You're going to have to read the book. I don't
Speaker 7: want I don't want to give that away. But again,
Speaker 7: the actual documentation when it refers to what happened, is
Speaker 7: in the book, and it's very and it and it
Speaker 7: was evidence that was deemed admissible at trial, So that
Speaker 7: information was there. Many of the letters that the letters
Speaker 7: that talk specifically about the murder, which were quite a
Speaker 7: few letters, And what the book features is rather than
Speaker 7: interspersing those letters throughout the book like many books might
Speaker 7: have because they don't have the volume of letters or
Speaker 7: for whatever reason, I've decided to put these letters all
Speaker 7: together and put a special warning on this because I
Speaker 7: think a lot of your listeners. I did a program
Speaker 7: a little a few weeks ago with Stevens Singular who
Speaker 7: did a story abolled BTK. BTK is one of the
Speaker 7: worst criminals in terms of taunting police, taunting the victims
Speaker 7: and then reveling in his revealing of circumstances surrounding the
Speaker 7: murder and the sexual background of what he did with
Speaker 7: these victims, and some of them children. There have been
Speaker 7: other killers as well. That another one was I The
Speaker 7: Creation of a serial Killer by the late great Jack Olsen.
Speaker 7: Basically it almost sounds like an account of the serial
Speaker 7: killer himself. He's the happy faced killer from Seattle. Used
Speaker 7: to drive truck and killed a bunch of women. And
Speaker 7: what he talked about is the sheer callousness, the callousness
Speaker 7: of his it's beyond lack of remorse, his disdain and
Speaker 7: to me, treating these women like garbage, like nothing, like objects.
Speaker 7: And I think the true crime audience that's out there
Speaker 7: has read a few of these books. There are quite
Speaker 7: a few of these killers. However, it's not something to
Speaker 7: brag about because this is this makes it difficult for
Speaker 7: some people. The revelations of this killer are not just random.
Speaker 7: They apply to this victim and I think other and
Speaker 7: he talks about other murders as well. That this is
Speaker 7: These revelations are the most shocking revelations I have ever read.
Speaker 8: And they're very hard.
Speaker 7: They are very hard to read and included our fifteen
Speaker 7: shocking dragons by the Killer depicting the murder. And I
Speaker 7: won't say anymore much more than that. So and this
Speaker 7: is not and I want to stress that this is
Speaker 7: not gratuitous. This is not in there just to shock you.
Speaker 7: This is in there because this was included in the trial.
Speaker 7: It was de seemed necessary in the trial. They have
Speaker 7: something called prejudice. If the information, the evidence is prejudicial
Speaker 7: to the jury, doesn't have any value other than just
Speaker 7: to shock the jury, it wouldn't be in there this.
Speaker 4: You're not a trained professional or a lawyer. It just
Speaker 4: seem like an average joe journalist. But what was it
Speaker 4: like knowing you had to testify against a killer to
Speaker 4: the trial, And how does the prosecution prepare you to
Speaker 4: testify like you're not a professional or anything like?
Speaker 7: What was that like, well, knowing that I have to
Speaker 7: testify against them? Of course, the trepidation is the word
Speaker 7: I would use. I mean, I was, I was scared.
Speaker 7: I mean, at one point the trial was supposed to
Speaker 7: go on in two thousand and six and I had
Speaker 7: a little meltdown. I remember going back home and anyway,
Speaker 7: I won't go into it, but it was like a
Speaker 7: meltdown because I was so stressed about everything. I also
Speaker 7: wanted this not to be a story that was in
Speaker 7: vain that no one would or not enough people would
Speaker 7: know about that. I mean, I did not write this
Speaker 7: story for fame and fortune or for certainly for profit.
Speaker 7: This story is an important story to me. So anticipating
Speaker 7: testifying against this killer with everything that was a stake.
Speaker 7: You got to remember that I was being told by
Speaker 7: a fair amount of people that he was not going
Speaker 7: to be convicted of second to be murder and that
Speaker 7: and I realized.
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Speaker 7: That I could be involved in hurting this case it
Speaker 7: and again I won't go into it. You got to
Speaker 7: read the book. There's an incredible amount of what the
Speaker 7: thing is is that how they prepared me is another
Speaker 7: part of the case. They I don't think they really did.
Speaker 7: They spoke to me a couple of times, but again
Speaker 7: I was feeling all this trepidation and fear, and the
Speaker 7: prosecutor treated me like it's hard to describe. And that's
Speaker 7: why I include the conversations verbatim in the book because it's.
Speaker 8: Hard to describe.
Speaker 7: Right now, when you ask me it's something that you
Speaker 7: need to read for yourself and you tell me exactly
Speaker 7: what was going on there. But I can tell you
Speaker 7: personally that maybe that's not their job. But I didn't
Speaker 7: feel that secure before this trial. The thing that made
Speaker 7: me feel the most secure is that I had advice,
Speaker 7: really good advice from a friend of a friend who
Speaker 7: happens to be a crown attorney in thunder Bay and
Speaker 7: gave me the background on how a murder trial really
Speaker 7: works wow, and how a defense lawyer may go about
Speaker 7: trying to discredit me or trying to question me, trying
Speaker 7: to cross examoy. So I think it just having that
Speaker 7: help that it really made me feel a little bit
Speaker 7: more confident before I went to trial About the case itself,
Speaker 7: I can just say that, but what was it.
Speaker 4: Like to be questioned on the witness stand? What was
Speaker 4: the experience like? And would you say would be more
Speaker 4: questioned or interrogated?
Speaker 7: Well, it's not an interrogation. I wasn't being interrogated, you know.
Speaker 7: An interrogation is what the killer would have went through.
Speaker 7: Across examination is for people that don't know. I mean,
Speaker 7: if you watch Law and Order, there are times and
Speaker 7: they do show many lawyers that will push the envelope
Speaker 7: or their sense of what's ethically allowable is different than
Speaker 7: someone else. So everybody has seen that, I think, at
Speaker 7: least on Law and Order, one of the more popular shows.
Speaker 7: The thing is is that.
Speaker 6: What was he like?
Speaker 4: Were they trying to discredit you on the stand, and
Speaker 4: what did it feel like like?
Speaker 7: Well, the thing is, once I was on the stand
Speaker 7: for about forty five minutes, I thought that the defense
Speaker 7: lawyer wasn't as prepared as he as I thought he
Speaker 7: may have been. So it seemed like instead of the
Speaker 7: slickness of Law and.
Speaker 8: Order, where it's very.
Speaker 7: I would say, what's the word I mean, what I
Speaker 7: would say is that it feels very calculated. On TV,
Speaker 7: obviously they've written a script. In real life, there are
Speaker 7: no oppositions. The crown attorney, the prosecutor did not object
Speaker 7: to the line of questioning that the defense lawyer did.
Speaker 7: It almost seemed like I was on my own. So
Speaker 7: the first forty five minutes, of course I'm sitting on
Speaker 7: the edge of my seat. But a combination of me
Speaker 7: realizing that this is the way it really was, and
Speaker 7: the one thing that the Crown attorney had said to
Speaker 7: me and I think this is very important and I
Speaker 7: will tell you about this, is that the crown attorney
Speaker 7: asked me specifically.
Speaker 8: There was.
Speaker 7: One thing that the killer had sent me in a
Speaker 7: last letter and had it said that everything he had
Speaker 7: told me previously was a lie and was fiction and
Speaker 7: it was just based on the true crime stories of
Speaker 7: John Wayne Gacy, Dennis Nielsen, which is the Jeffrey Dahmer
Speaker 7: of England, Aileen Warnos, the female serial killer in the
Speaker 7: US who killed her clients and robbed them, and Ted Bundy.
Speaker 7: Now he said he put all those stories together and
Speaker 7: made a fictional story. And why he said that was
Speaker 7: that I had notified him that the law had just
Speaker 7: passed preventing criminals from profiting off the nor dery of
Speaker 7: their crime. He hung up on me and sent me
Speaker 7: a letter and said I didn't hear anything about it.
Speaker 7: I think they're just trying to rip me off. By
Speaker 7: the way, everything I've told you is a lie. It's
Speaker 7: just based on serial killer stories. And at trial and
Speaker 7: before the trial, the Crown attorney the day before the trial,
Speaker 7: when I saw her one day before the trial, didn't
Speaker 7: she ask me baron me?
Speaker 4: Didn't Sidney also say that he totally blacked out and
Speaker 4: he couldn't remember anything. But yet he gave you what
Speaker 4: do you see ten fifteen pages of grature, gratuitist violence
Speaker 4: of these acts that he drew out.
Speaker 7: Well, of course, that's the thing I mean. I mentioned
Speaker 7: that the of course, most of the information clearly refutes
Speaker 7: that he had a blackout at all, But that's not
Speaker 7: that's not really that doesn't really describe the revelations, because
Speaker 7: that's that would be easy to say, Okay, he doesn't remember,
Speaker 7: and that's fine, and I knew, I believed in my
Speaker 7: heart of hearts that I would find that out very quickly.
Speaker 8: Or or soon enough.
Speaker 7: But there is no there was no real motivation for
Speaker 7: Sidney to send me the letters that he did and
Speaker 7: tell me about the things that he did, other than.
Speaker 8: He wanted to relive, rehash, revel.
Speaker 7: He wanted to re enjoy what he had done. He
Speaker 7: wanted somebody to know. And when you look at a
Speaker 7: you read all of these books which are about serial killers, Okay,
Speaker 7: the mindset of the psychopathic killer, the mindset of the
Speaker 7: serial killer is that these people eventually want to tell
Speaker 7: somebody more than they want to evade capture. It is
Speaker 7: their demise. However, it is a burning need after a while.
Speaker 7: When you look at the happy faced killer, he had
Speaker 7: to contract police because somebody else. Weirdly enough, it confessed
Speaker 7: to his first murder. He went out of his pattern.
Speaker 4: There's a pattern to all these serial killers.
Speaker 7: Well, the thing is, like you say, Sydney was charged
Speaker 7: with one murder. However, I talk about the serial killer
Speaker 7: profile itself, and in that serial killer profile, all I'm
Speaker 7: saying is that Sidney Teerhuse fits the serial killer profile perfectly,
Speaker 7: like a carbon copy. Now, do I have any evidence?
Speaker 7: Do I have the names of the victims? And do
Speaker 7: I have their remains?
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 7: At the same time, I can tell you, without giving
Speaker 7: you any detail, that I have made advances. We'll say
Speaker 7: I've made inquiries about the possibility that he has killed before.
Speaker 7: I have tried to a certain extent to investigate if
Speaker 7: there is any information about potential other murders. What I'm
Speaker 7: talking about is he fits the serial killer profile exactly,
Speaker 7: and that serial killer profile not every serial killer fits
Speaker 7: that profile. Well, what we're talking about is not a
Speaker 7: profile to predict who we is and to determine to
Speaker 7: here's the crimes, and now I'll find them based on
Speaker 7: this profile. The profile is much better when you do
Speaker 7: it afterwards, when you use the profile to say these
Speaker 7: this killer fits all of these other serial killers. Method
Speaker 7: of operation shares signatures those unique aspects of the murder
Speaker 7: that they continue, They may accelerate a lot of the
Speaker 7: features of the serial killer. The worst of the worst
Speaker 7: are that they want to contact the police. They taunt police,
Speaker 7: They want to taunt the victims, They want to undermine
Speaker 7: their victim try to rationalize their deaths, try to achieve
Speaker 7: their own celebrity from what they're doing, and can't believe
Speaker 7: that people think they're such a bad person. It's an
Speaker 7: incredible psychopathis in credible thing to witness when it's right
Speaker 7: there in front of you. I've had to. I witnessed
Speaker 7: a genuine psychopath. I've accused of one of the most
Speaker 7: horrific murders ever known in the in the taunting, the posing,
Speaker 7: the reassembling of the body, so calmly walking into police
Speaker 7: and saying, hey, listen, I blacked out and I found
Speaker 7: this guy in the bathtub, not preparing the police for
Speaker 7: what they found, which I call a murder horror spectacle
Speaker 7: because even Jack the Ripper didn't take all of the
Speaker 7: organs remove them as just to gain notoriety.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what I was just going to say, Like
Speaker 4: this for him to do this just once the first time,
Speaker 4: to cut up, to execute, and yet Jack the Ripper
Speaker 4: never even took away the organs and then where are
Speaker 4: the organs? And to do all this such a heinous
Speaker 4: crime to cut it off and then say I don't
Speaker 4: remember and then draw, you know, great detail. I understand
Speaker 4: that that Sydney took the stand in the trial.
Speaker 3: What was it like?
Speaker 4: And how did the killer act when when he testified,
Speaker 4: like to be so cold and like I say, the
Speaker 4: reason why I asked that question is to tie it in.
Speaker 4: How could somebody do this just once, you know, execute
Speaker 4: this so perfectly, drawings everything and then come to the
Speaker 4: police station go I blacked out, I can't remember. And
Speaker 4: then when you go in the trial, what did this person?
Speaker 4: What did the person say? What was it like? That
Speaker 4: must have been bizarre.
Speaker 7: Well, the thing is I testified. I testified on a Monday,
Speaker 7: and he testified on a Wednesday. And on the Wednesday,
Speaker 7: his lawyer starts off by examining It's called the direct examination,
Speaker 7: where he asked me him questions the equivalent of not
Speaker 7: very hard questions. He talked about his life growing up,
Speaker 7: and of course that he talked about he well not
Speaker 7: of course, but I guess you don't know. But he
Speaker 7: talked about being abused by his stepbrother or his adopted brother,
Speaker 7: and being also having some kind of sexual relationship with
Speaker 7: his mother.
Speaker 6: And then he.
Speaker 7: Talked about which of course I didn't know, and the
Speaker 7: prosecution didn't know. He was charged for exposing himself to
Speaker 7: a paperboy, two charges, so that's the only criminal charges
Speaker 7: he had. And then he went on and tried to create,
Speaker 7: you know, a story about how he had always been
Speaker 7: blacking out and when he blacked out, he would find
Speaker 7: himself somewhere else and not remember any details. And of
Speaker 7: course this blacking out phenomena started when he was really young,
Speaker 7: and so he was trying to build that up by
Speaker 7: his lawyer asking him questions. And again, I mean, they
Speaker 7: were faced with an incredible task. Not only does he
Speaker 7: admit to the killing, they just are trying to say
Speaker 7: that alcohol, because he was impaired from alcohol, that he
Speaker 7: didn't have the intent to kill. Also, at the same
Speaker 7: time they have to defend against the letters that clearly
Speaker 7: talked about his enjoyment of the killing and how he
Speaker 7: did remember everything, and so of course they have a
Speaker 7: very very uphill battle. So the direct examination basically starts
Speaker 7: creating some stories about what happened that day. It's a
Speaker 7: fairly involved few hour procedure. The really interesting thing is
Speaker 7: when the Crown attorney the prosecutor gets to question him,
Speaker 7: because it's very unusual American law, Canadian law, anywhere law
Speaker 7: that the defendant goes up on the stand to defend himself,
Speaker 7: especially in a case like this. However, it seemed like
Speaker 7: he had not much to lose, and it is his
Speaker 7: prerogative to go up on the stand if he wants to,
Speaker 7: whether his lawyer disagrees, whether or not his lawyer can
Speaker 7: can disavow himself from the case or what's the word
Speaker 7: revoke or anyway, he doesn't have to participate in the case.
Speaker 7: If if Sidney Tyerhes wants to take the stand, he
Speaker 7: can take the stand.
Speaker 4: So when linked Sydney would take this witness stand.
Speaker 8: And why yeah, I did? I did?
Speaker 7: Because again it's it fits the psychopathy of a killer,
Speaker 7: the psychopathic killer. It fits the serial killer profile perfectly.
Speaker 7: Of course, he's going to want to take the stand.
Speaker 7: This is the culmination of his ultimate fantasy. He wants
Speaker 7: to be famous. Of course he wants to take the stand.
Speaker 7: I predicted it. I predicted it long long before I
Speaker 7: knew he would want to take the stand. And he
Speaker 7: did take the stand. The only thing that I was
Speaker 7: wrong is that I thought he would make I thought
Speaker 7: he would use it as his real soapbox, that he'd
Speaker 7: get out there and interrupt the court or or threaten me,
Speaker 7: or make a big speech. It was almost certain that
Speaker 7: something would happen.
Speaker 8: The more.
Speaker 7: The biggest outburst he did do was he called one
Speaker 7: of I don't know if he called I think he
Speaker 7: called the assistant Crown Attorney a bitch and gave her
Speaker 7: the finger. And he said to another the police officer.
Speaker 7: The resting police officers said I will not tolerate this
Speaker 7: f and lies on the stand.
Speaker 8: Well, that's it.
Speaker 7: So I was wrong, and that he didn't really perform.
Speaker 8: But the thing is.
Speaker 7: That it was subtle because the papers didn't pick up
Speaker 7: on it. Anybody that picks up the book will read
Speaker 7: this in the transcripts that are included, and his trans
Speaker 7: his testimony is included almost completely. My testimonies included almost
Speaker 7: completely why because I'm lazy. It's incredible testimony and it.
Speaker 4: Was the key to the trial.
Speaker 7: Was it his, well, his his his words were used
Speaker 7: to convict him. So everything he wrote to me, which
Speaker 7: coincidentally or incidentally, he wanted this material to be released.
Speaker 8: After the trial.
Speaker 7: He's not a stupid man.
Speaker 8: He's an intelligent man.
Speaker 7: But it doesn't mean he isn't foolish. It doesn't mean
Speaker 7: he isn't delusional to a certain extent, So he wanted
Speaker 7: all this information to come out. When he was on
Speaker 7: the stand, he looked more relaxed than anybody else in
Speaker 7: that courtroom. I swear to god, he looked so nonchalant
Speaker 7: when he was being questioned.
Speaker 8: I'm just going to go back a little bit.
Speaker 7: When he was questioned on the stand, the Crown attorney
Speaker 7: asked him this, you considered this guy just a piece
Speaker 7: of meat, And he said.
Speaker 8: Well, I suppose.
Speaker 7: So you don't suppose, did you? Yes, he was disposable
Speaker 7: to you. Yes, so something to that extent. I could
Speaker 7: get the quotes, but I mean, to that extent, the
Speaker 7: what he admits in his testimony.
Speaker 8: Is incredible, and did.
Speaker 4: The killer have any say about other murders, any hinting
Speaker 4: of maybe this wasn't the first when he did, or
Speaker 4: was this lover piece like you said, piece and beat
Speaker 4: lover thing, his his trophy, his his you know, alter
Speaker 4: his god.
Speaker 8: Like what he talked about.
Speaker 7: Very early on he sent me a letter about I
Speaker 7: asked him, can you send me a letter about when
Speaker 7: you're a first questioned by police? And he was first
Speaker 7: question by police. He said to me that they had
Speaker 7: asked them about other murders, similar murders, especially apparently a
Speaker 7: young man who ended up in a bathtub in similar
Speaker 7: condition to this this person, and I thought, wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 7: I would have never heard about that. Whoever, he does
Speaker 7: talk about these other murders, and he does talk about
Speaker 7: how the cops asked him, you know, to do the
Speaker 7: right thing, and you put this guy through a lot
Speaker 7: of misery in his family.
Speaker 8: Maybe do the right thing, think about it.
Speaker 7: They left the room and came back and he said
Speaker 7: his mind was a blank, but they accused him of
Speaker 7: killing all these young men. As they continue to question him.
Speaker 7: Later in the book and later on in my correspondence,
Speaker 7: he sends me a letter and poses the question if
Speaker 7: he thinks I think he's a serial killer and which
Speaker 7: serial killer he most closely resembles. So I won't go
Speaker 7: into any more of that, but I think that might
Speaker 7: pique your interest that And I do have a chapter
Speaker 7: in the book called serial Killing and an Interview with
Speaker 7: an interview with a gentleman named Robert K. Wrestler, which
Speaker 7: for anybody who's been reading true crime for any time,
Speaker 7: Robert K. Wrestler, John Douglass, these guys are the serial
Speaker 7: killer profilers. The pioneers of this profile science will say.
Speaker 7: And how they did this is that Robert K. Wrestler
Speaker 7: and a couple of associates and John Douglas, but especially
Speaker 7: Robert K. Wrestler went and interviewed the most notorious serial
Speaker 7: killers in the world, which just happened to be in
Speaker 7: the US. Gacy, Bundy, Manson, Berkowitz, Ramirez. All of these guys,
Speaker 7: the worst of the worst, were interviewed extensively, and there
Speaker 7: is where the serial killer profiles were created.
Speaker 4: Well, isn't it Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but
Speaker 4: another Canadian crime that picked and isn't that Once he
Speaker 4: was convicted, they found out that there's more bodies, not
Speaker 4: just a few. But then after they found out that
Speaker 4: there is more than just a couple, and I think,
Speaker 4: now aren't they still even finding bones and parts?
Speaker 7: Well, the Picton story is a different case, and I
Speaker 7: mean the thing is with the Picton case, he was
Speaker 7: only charged for six murders. There was a good possibility
Speaker 7: of another twenty six, but the incredible cost of the trial,
Speaker 7: again taxpayers footing most of the bill, even though this
Speaker 7: guy had a fair amount of land and his half
Speaker 7: or part landowner out there in valuable property in British Columbia. However,
Speaker 7: the incredible length of the trial and incredible cost, and
Speaker 7: again if you have a concurrence sentencing, you can imagine
Speaker 7: the length of time and the incredible cost to little
Speaker 7: effect to have twenty six separate murder cases. In fact,
Speaker 7: the six murders right now they're still considering whether the
Speaker 7: judge may have instructed a jury improperly, and there still
Speaker 7: is some threat, there's still some threat of doing it
Speaker 7: all again, having another trial.
Speaker 4: Wow. So what my question was the correlation with the
Speaker 4: Sydney case is Okay, you had the trial, he's been convicted,
Speaker 4: But maybe now as you go back and you start
Speaker 4: researching more that you're going to find out that this
Speaker 4: is in the first time that there is more out
Speaker 4: there that he has done well.
Speaker 7: The thing is, it's much easier to say and speculate,
Speaker 7: and again, if he fits the serial killer profile, it's
Speaker 7: still we don't have any other bodies. So the only
Speaker 7: thing that can possibly happen is that, you know, Sydney
Speaker 7: at some point, for some reason, may admit to other murders.
Speaker 7: Realizing that the sentence he did get was twenty five
Speaker 7: years to a potential life sentence twenty five years before
Speaker 7: he's a absul eligible for parole. Now I don't know it.
Speaker 7: Certainly there's a real good possibility he's going to be
Speaker 7: let out in twenty years. I mean, it doesn't mean
Speaker 7: he will, but there is a possibility that he'll be
Speaker 7: out in twenty years. I'm going to be at the
Speaker 7: parole hearing. I'm going to apply for intervener status. I'm
Speaker 7: going to try to show the parole board. I'm going
Speaker 7: to try to use the pressure with the media at
Speaker 7: that time to reignite this story or to remind people
Speaker 7: of what the crime that he was convicted of and
Speaker 7: what he went on and did say in those letters
Speaker 7: which was deemed truthful by the judge these regardless of
Speaker 7: what he says about the four serial killer stories. And
Speaker 7: the Crown attorney asked me specifically, She said, is there
Speaker 7: anything to these four serial killer stories like he says?
Speaker 8: I said no.
Speaker 7: I said, the only thing that they have in common
Speaker 7: is that Dennis Nielsen and John Wayne Gacy and Sidney
Speaker 7: Tierhuse are bisexual or homosexual.
Speaker 8: That's about it.
Speaker 7: And they dismembered their victims. And she said to me,
Speaker 7: when you're asked that question on the stand, you are
Speaker 7: to say that there is some comparison between those other crimes. Otherwise,
Speaker 7: mister Greg Brosky will turn you around. Mister Zepanski, do
Speaker 7: not think you're much smarter than you are.
Speaker 8: Now.
Speaker 7: I didn't listen to her. And when I was asked
Speaker 7: the question, I had a whole involved thing that I
Speaker 7: was gonna say, but I just said nonsense. I said
Speaker 7: that's he asked me a couple of times. I just said, no,
Speaker 7: that's nonsense, because it is nonsense. I have those books,
Speaker 7: I've done some of those interviews. I've interviewed Sue Russell,
Speaker 7: the author of the Alien Warnos story Lethal Intent. It's ridiculous,
Speaker 7: especially comparing that story. But even the other stories, there
Speaker 7: is nothing from those stories that could have been included
Speaker 7: or was included at all in the story that Sidney
Speaker 7: Cheerhuse gave me about this particular murder. There is nothing,
Speaker 7: you know, the appeal pardon.
Speaker 4: All this information would make a great movie or a documentary,
Speaker 4: almost kind of like Broke Back Mountain meets Jack the Rippers.
Speaker 4: It's quite a I tell you, it's just unbelievable. And
Speaker 4: and to know that this guy could be out on
Speaker 4: thar role, you think that they would guys like this,
Speaker 4: they would take the key and throw it away, lock
Speaker 4: the door and throw away the key.
Speaker 7: Well, that's one of the things that's very it's very simplistic.
Speaker 7: But I am not I think the Canadian judicial system
Speaker 7: has some very good, very good things that the government
Speaker 7: has changed in the last few years. We do not
Speaker 7: have the throwaway the key type mentality or the three
Speaker 7: strikes and you're out. I won't get into that too much.
Speaker 7: But the thing is that I'm I'm very concerned with
Speaker 7: is that there is no actual life sentence. We just
Speaker 7: had a case where a person that was deemed not
Speaker 7: criminally responsible insane killed the person on a bus, decapitated them,
Speaker 7: there some cannibalism. You probably you've heard of this case.
Speaker 7: It was a Greyhound bus about a year and a
Speaker 7: half ago. Incredible case. And the psychiatrists are talking about
Speaker 7: with medication letting this person out in about five years.
Speaker 7: And of course the family, the mother of this gentleman,
Speaker 7: Tim McLean is is outraged. She can't believe that they
Speaker 7: would talk like this. And then we have, like I say,
Speaker 7: the case of people what anyone in their right mind
Speaker 7: would call a murder. Of course, there are certain times
Speaker 7: in court where there has to be plea bargains made,
Speaker 7: deals made because of the difficulty, for various reasons, no witnesses,
Speaker 7: uncooperative witnesses. But we're talking about routine where it seems
Speaker 7: that murder is manslaughter. It becomes less and far less
Speaker 7: and far less time.
Speaker 8: And would you.
Speaker 4: Think because of this case an it's two aboriginal males,
Speaker 4: do you think if it was an aboriginal male and
Speaker 4: an eighteen year old white blonde girl that was decapitated
Speaker 4: all that, do you think that?
Speaker 7: Well, I know what you're saying, of course, I know
Speaker 7: what you're saying, and I agree with you, But that
Speaker 7: is the nature.
Speaker 8: I've asked many people this question.
Speaker 7: Do that's the way the public acts when it's a prostitute,
Speaker 7: of course, And I hate even calling the person by
Speaker 7: referring to them by their occupation. And it's not even
Speaker 7: their occupations, their unfortunate position to be in.
Speaker 8: Is a prostitute.
Speaker 7: And so but yet that's who the psychopathic killer, the
Speaker 7: cowardly killer, the serial killer picks as a prostitute. This
Speaker 7: gentleman was referred to at the trial as a homeless alcoholic.
Speaker 7: I never saw any evidence to prove he was an alcoholic.
Speaker 7: I never saw any evidence to even show he was homeless.
Speaker 8: At first.
Speaker 7: He came from a reserve which was a couple hours
Speaker 7: away from Winnipeg, to come in for Canada Day and
Speaker 7: to visit his sister.
Speaker 4: Do you have a legal address?
Speaker 7: I couldn't get that information. But what I'm saying, there's
Speaker 7: no reason to depict them as a homeless alcoholic. There's
Speaker 7: no reason. There's no reason to talk about a female
Speaker 7: victim as a prostitute. Will say, because what it does
Speaker 7: it allows people to rationalize why some people are more
Speaker 7: apt to be a victim than other people. The reason
Speaker 7: why they're a victim, because they're vulnerable and they're available
Speaker 7: and no one will miss them. Likely, This gentleman here,
Speaker 7: like you say, you make the point, well, if it
Speaker 7: would have been an eighteen year old white woman with
Speaker 7: no criminal record from a good, upstanding, high profile family, yes,
Speaker 7: you would have a completely different case. You'd have a
Speaker 7: completely different story, You'd have a completely different reaction to
Speaker 7: this victim.
Speaker 4: This is Do you think the government would then change
Speaker 4: a law to say life imprisonment for say, such a
Speaker 4: heinous crime, if the situation, they elements were different.
Speaker 7: I think that in light of a case like this
Speaker 7: not really getting full national news exposure, national coverage. It
Speaker 7: was on a CTV television across Canada, it was carried
Speaker 7: by the Canadian press cross Canada, but not a genuine
Speaker 7: national story. We have the Bernardo Hamalca, we have the
Speaker 7: Robert Picton, and this story seemed to not They didn't
Speaker 7: want to know about it for some reason. The thing
Speaker 7: is is that all of these cases are good examples
Speaker 7: of cases that the Canadian public should read about and
Speaker 7: everybody should read about for just the stories themselves. They're
Speaker 7: they're fascinating stories. They are incredible killers, the unique crimes
Speaker 7: and murder, shocking, bizarre cases, interesting on every single level.
Speaker 8: So I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah,
Speaker 8: yeah it does.
Speaker 6: It was.
Speaker 4: It was really nice talking to you, mister Zapanski about
Speaker 4: the Trophy Kill And the next question, where's the best
Speaker 4: way to get a hold.
Speaker 8: Of the book.
Speaker 4: Where is it available? How do I get it?
Speaker 7: Well, you went to the website before, and I thank
Speaker 7: you for asking you.
Speaker 8: Go back to Trophy Kill.
Speaker 7: One word trophy Kill dot tv. That will refer you
Speaker 7: to the trophy Kill store, which is on the pro
Speaker 7: Hiptokon publishing website. Pro Hiptoken is spelled the p r
Speaker 7: o h y p t i k o n. So
Speaker 7: that's why I get you to go to the website
Speaker 7: trophy Kill dot tv. It's just a little bit easier.
Speaker 7: You can get the book now on advance. Order it
Speaker 7: in advance and save yourself a few bucks. It's a
Speaker 7: bit pricey, but we've got a great cover. It's a
Speaker 7: very collectible book. It's about four hundred pages. And it's
Speaker 7: been great that you spent this time asking me these questions.
Speaker 7: I'm sure, I'm sure you didn't plan on beyond on
Speaker 7: the show all night, but I I really appreciate you
Speaker 7: showing your interest in this, John, and I want to
Speaker 7: thank you very much. I could say, go to Trophykill
Speaker 7: dot tv and you can get yourself an advanced copy
Speaker 7: of this watch for the videos again, we'll probably label
Speaker 7: the Trophy Kill again.
Speaker 8: Why not?
Speaker 7: Two more videos very interesting, one based on CTV news footage,
Speaker 7: and another one is particularly scary that at first will
Speaker 7: only be on the website the actual words of Sidney
Speaker 7: Chierhus and his actual drawings, but again produced by the
Speaker 7: same documentary group that did the last video. This one
Speaker 7: is just too scary to describe. I'm telling you go
Speaker 7: to the website in a few days and see that.
Speaker 7: And again, I want to thank you very much John
Speaker 7: for the call. I want you to have a good evening,
Speaker 7: good luck down.
Speaker 4: With the book and I look forward to reading it
Speaker 4: and I'd look forward to seeing a movie or something
Speaker 4: that's tied to the book.
Speaker 7: Well, thanks very much, John. You have a good night,
Speaker 7: eh you too, Thank you.
Speaker 4: Bye bye bye.
Speaker 7: Even listen to the program True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 7: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 7: written about them. Join me next week for Sheila Johnson
Speaker 7: with the book Bloodlust, And like I said, the interview
Speaker 7: for tonight with Linda Rosenkrantz and Ripper will be rescheduled
Speaker 7: for April twenty eighth, same time, Wednesday, eight o'clock. Have
Speaker 7: yourself a good evening,