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Every week another fascinating 24 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:24.319 author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in 25 00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:28.879 true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and 26 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:30.760 author Dan Zupansky. 27 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:44.000 Good evening, This is your host Danzupaski for the program 28 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:47.680 True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history 29 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:51.200 and the authors that have written about them. My program 30 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:55.040 tonight was going to be with Linda Rosenkrantz and she 31 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:58.599 was going to be discussing her book Ripper. However, I 32 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.280 got a call today from her and she had to 33 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:05.879 cancel and we've rescheduled the interview for April twenty eighth, 34 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:08.680 So that's in two weeks Linda rosen Krantz will be 35 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.439 talking about her book Ripper. I've taken this opportunity this 36 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.680 evening because it's really hard to book anyone else, and 37 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:20.479 it really is an opportune time because my book, my 38 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:26.120 first book, my true crime nonfiction book, Trophy Kill, Shall 39 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:26.520 We Dance? 40 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:26.919 Murder? 41 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:30.840 The Trial and Revelations of a Psychopathic Killer is released 42 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:35.840 once to be released today on the fifteenth, and however, 43 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:38.159 there's been a delay at the printing of the printers 44 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:42.439 and it will be released However, on Friday. However, if 45 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:44.800 you were to go to my website trophy Kill dot 46 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:49.039 tv or the publisher's website pro Hiptick and Publishing in Toronto, 47 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:52.400 you are able to advance order the book and save 48 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:55.759 two or three dollars as a result of this. So 49 00:02:56.280 --> 00:03:00.479 you can go to trophy kill dot tv for for 50 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.240 the book if you'd like. And what I'm going to 51 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:05.199 do tonight is talk about the book and I'm going 52 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.800 to open the lines so that if anybody would like 53 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.599 to call and talk about this. I have had a 54 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:16.080 video out posted on YouTube again directing people to the 55 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:19.479 website trophy kill dot tv for since May of two 56 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:21.840 thousand and eight, for a couple of years, so we 57 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.680 didn't in some advance promotion of this book for quite 58 00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:29.400 a while. Let me just introduce the story for those 59 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:31.759 people that do not know. I had done an earlier 60 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:34.639 program concerning this book, but this will be a little 61 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:37.800 bit different. We get people to call in and ask 62 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:42.240 questions specifically about the book, things that they are interested 63 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:47.439 in knowing about specifically. On July first, two thousand and three, 64 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.680 the Miramax movie Shall We Dance starring Jennifer Lopez, Susan 65 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.280 Sarandon and Richard gear was being filmed in Winnipeg. The 66 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:57.680 next day, Sidney Tearshuse walked into a police station, claimed 67 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:01.240 that he had awoken from a drunken blackout to discover 68 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:04.240 a man dead in the bathtub. He maintained he had 69 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:07.719 no memory of the killing. Police discovered the victim cut 70 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:12.680 into eight pieces, decapitated, disemboweled, sawn in half with all 71 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:17.399 of the internal organs missing. The dismembered and mutilated corpse 72 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:21.800 was pose crudely re assembled with Susan Sarandon's gold necklace 73 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:23.360 found a few feet away from. 74 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:25.160 The murder order horror spectacle. 75 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:28.720 Through a faithful turn of events, journalist Dan Sapaski has 76 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:31.600 an opportunity to correspond with the killer. He gains his 77 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:34.079 trust and has eventually sent a series of shocking letters 78 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:37.720 and diagrams outlining every graphic and horrific detail of the 79 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:41.160 order of the murder, organ removal and sex with the corpse. 80 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:45.600 Contacts authorities with the evidence he has and is suddenly 81 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:49.040 thrust into the trial as the prosecution star witness testifying 82 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:51.920 against the killer, desperate to see him sentenced to life 83 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:55.759 in prison. Prosecutors have the burden to prove that Sidney 84 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.879 had the necessary intent to kill. If they fail, Sidney 85 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.279 walks the streets again discover the incredible rule that Susan 86 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.800 Sarandon stole the necklace had in the motive for one 87 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:11.000 of the most horrifying murders of all time, Trophy Killed. 88 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:13.480 The Shall We Dance Murder? The Trial and Revelations of 89 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:19.920 a Psychopathic Killer? And what are included are the killers revelations, 90 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:27.839 trial transcripts, and fifteen pages of shocking drawings. So what 91 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:30.480 we're gonna do is go to our caller now and 92 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:34.720 see what we have and see what this person is 93 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.959 interested in knowing about this. I have to say, if 94 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:41.079 I have to say myself, a very very interesting and 95 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:41.959 incredible story. 96 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:45.319 Yes, caller, do you good. 97 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:46.720 Evening and welcome to the program. 98 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:50.639 Hi, my name is John. How you doing, mister Sepanski. 99 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:51.600 Oh very good? Thank you. 100 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:55.160 First off, I just want to say found out about 101 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:57.720 your book from cool video I saw on YouTube a 102 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:01.839 few months ago, and then I visited your website. A 103 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.839 few questions. First of all, it must be nice, so 104 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:06.639 this is a question. But first one must be nice 105 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:10.720 to have a big budget, very nice video. And is 106 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:13.399 there a documentary about the trial. 107 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:15.839 Well, that's a good question. 108 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:21.120 There is a planned and always was a planned accompanying 109 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:25.839 documentary about the trial, about the case itself, and we 110 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.399 just want to make it simply call it Trophy Kill 111 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:32.680 as well. That documentary is still not finished, but we've 112 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:37.279 taken the footage from the planned documentary and the video 113 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:39.639 that you saw. Like I said at the opening of 114 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:41.920 the show, we posted that on YouTube a couple of 115 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.319 years ago and on my website as well, Trophy Guilt 116 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.279 dot tv. We also have in the next couple of days, 117 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:51.040 as part of our promotion for the book, two more 118 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:54.160 videos that are going to be posted on YouTube and 119 00:06:54.759 --> 00:07:00.240 all kinds of other video sharing sites that are very 120 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.439 popular these days, and that is one of the ways 121 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:04.439 that we're going to be promoting our book. So I'm 122 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:08.240 really happy to hear John that you did get to 123 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:10.360 see that video on YouTube and that directed you to 124 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:11.600 our website. 125 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:15.000 What else would you. 126 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:16.800 Like to know about? 127 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:19.480 Wanted to know why call the book Trophy Kill and 128 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:20.759 who came up with the title. 129 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:28.120 Well, the book the killer himself, Sidney Teerhuse wanted the 130 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:30.959 book to be called Trophy Kill. And the reason why 131 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:35.240 pick Trophy Kill wasn't necessarily because he wanted that title, 132 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:38.959 but the most important reason was that it's the most 133 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.360 appropriate title for the book. And I don't want to 134 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.879 give everything away, but if people were to know what 135 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:47.199 a trophy kill is, and I think most people do 136 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:49.480 know what the definition of a trophy kill is, a 137 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:55.000 controlled kill. It usually refers, it does refer to hunters 138 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:59.199 that are that pay to go somewhere and hunt game, 139 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:02.120 and and and then are guaranteed that they're going to 140 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:06.000 get this what they call trophy kill. Like I said, 141 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.959 it's the most appropriate title for the book, and it 142 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:13.600 just so happens that it is the title that the killer. 143 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:17.759 Actually wanted for the book itself. That's that answer to. 144 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:24.319 Actually implement that that his victim is is like a 145 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.000 deer or something he slaughtered like a game. 146 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:30.240 Well, I don't want to, I want to. I don't 147 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.039 want to give everything away from the book itself, but 148 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:36.159 he does refer if you read the trial transcripts that 149 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:39.559 are on the website itself, he does refer to the 150 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:43.320 to the victim as a human trophy. So let's just 151 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.519 keep it at that. You will you read the actual documents. 152 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:51.840 What's interesting that I had the opportunity to purchase the transcripts. 153 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:57.120 I was corresponding with the killer himself. So the actual 154 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.120 documentation is one of the big features of this book. 155 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.360 The actual authentic documentation is included in this book. 156 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:08.759 Well, I see, I know that Susan strandon stolen jewelry 157 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.639 was found at the crime scene. But while also title 158 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.519 the book shall We Dance Murders? Like, what does their 159 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:17.480 stolen necklace have to do with this story? 160 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:22.399 Well, the thing is, as I mentioned before, the jewelry 161 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.600 was found at the crime scene, very close to the 162 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:32.639 victim's dismembered and mutilated body, and very quickly the police 163 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:37.879 determined from whatever I'm not sure for what reason, but 164 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.799 they determined that the necklace had nothing to do with 165 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:45.879 the crime scene itself. I won't go into too much 166 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.240 because that would be another story of what I think 167 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:52.759 the reason why the police determined that this necklace and 168 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:57.200 the stolen jewelry was not part of the motive for this. 169 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:01.320 But in the book, as I've said, what you discovered 170 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.480 the shocking role that Susan Sarandon's jewelry did have in 171 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:07.399 this And I will just tell you that you're going 172 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:08.919 to have to read the book if you really want 173 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:11.120 to find that out. It's a little too involved what 174 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:17.519 it's about, but definitely Susan Sarandon's stolen jewelry is involved 175 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:21.399 in the motive for this killing, despite what the police 176 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.799 determined very very early on. And I won't go around 177 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:27.600 to it too much more, but I'm telling you that 178 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:31.559 there is a very good reason why the jewelry is stole, 179 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:35.200 and it is a very interesting story. How the jewelry 180 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.320 becomes involved or is involved with the directly with the 181 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.840 motive for this killing itself interesting. 182 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:43.679 And how did you get involved with this case? 183 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:49.000 I got involved with this case a gentleman that I 184 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:55.360 know was called me from a remand center awaiting some charges. 185 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.639 And I wouldn't say whether we were close friends, but 186 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:02.519 we were associates and I had met him originally in 187 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.360 thunder Bay. We went to high school together. So this 188 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.519 is many years later. He had moved to Winnipeg. I 189 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.120 had relocated to Winnipeg in nineteen ninety four. He had 190 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:14.480 relocated I think a few years before, so we had 191 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.399 bumped into each other a few times and he had 192 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:19.120 visited my home and shortly after that he called me 193 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:21.960 from the Reman center and said listen, I've been in 194 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.000 some trouble. These charges are they aren't going to stick, 195 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:29.480 and they didn't stick. They were charges that were eventually dropped. 196 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.919 But the reason why he asked me to call him 197 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:37.480 was because I guess that's you know, it's a lonely 198 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.279 time being incarcerated. I don't know, but I was good 199 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:45.240 enough to at least correspond with him. A few months 200 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:48.799 after our correspondence began. He'd give me a call, maybe 201 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:52.039 once a week or so, and he asked me who 202 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:56.120 was in his two guests, who was in the same 203 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:00.159 jail range as he was. I had no idea he 204 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:05.159 had mentioned the name Sidney Tierhughes. The name didn't click immediately. 205 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:10.320 The murder itself had occurred in July, and I was 206 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:13.120 speaking to my friend on the telephone about his cellmate 207 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:18.559 or his his now roommate here Sidney Tierhues about six 208 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.519 months later in January. So but when he mentioned that 209 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:23.399 this was the person that had cut up the person 210 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:26.600 at the Royal Albert, of course I remembered I had 211 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.159 cut out the clippings from the newspaper. I'd been doing 212 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:32.080 a radio show for about three years at that time. 213 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:34.960 One of the things I was interested in was the 214 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:37.080 law and some of the things I had seen that 215 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.919 I was opposed to, and so I asked my friend 216 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:45.919 if he could ask Sydney Tierhues, the killer if he'd 217 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:48.960 be interested in an interview, and to go back just 218 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.799 a little bit. As soon as the killer was arrested, 219 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:56.799 he was granting interviews to the media, particularly the Winnipeg 220 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:02.320 Sun in Winnipeg, and of interviews, which, as you may 221 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:04.600 know or not know, it's it's kind of unusual for 222 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.600 somebody to do that. So I recognize this person wanted 223 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:12.080 to talk, and as a result, I thought, well, maybe 224 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:13.960 this would be a really good opportunity to write a 225 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:14.480 book here. 226 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:16.759 And it was. 227 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.639 More intuition than anything else, but I decided to do 228 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:23.039 that ask my friend if he could ask Sidney Tierhuse 229 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.799 if he was interested, and of course he was. So 230 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:28.960 that's that's where how I got involved with this case. 231 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:33.480 In this story, understand, this murder occurred in Canada, but 232 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:36.120 it sounds like an open and shutcase, you know, And 233 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:38.600 I'm sure one day he might be released on parole, 234 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:42.120 but there's no way he'd be able to get paroleed before. 235 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:44.480 He's a very old man, not after admitting to the 236 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:49.080 bizarre killing, coming in admitting to it, and you know. 237 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.840 Well, the thing is, I think you're living in the US. 238 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:55.840 You're not familiar with Canadian law. 239 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:57.360 We do have completely. 240 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:00.720 Difference than like this remand I didn't understand that things 241 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.000 are a little different. But there's no way he'd be 242 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.799 eligible for parole because this guy, you know, with all 243 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:10.320 the heinous, you know, all the stuff he's done to 244 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.519 this individual, that there's no way that he'd be out 245 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:14.360 till he's an old man because he's what in his 246 00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:17.480 thirty so he probably you know, for at least thirty 247 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:18.279 forty years. 248 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.559 Well, that's not the way it works, bard me. What 249 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:28.039 happens is that the parole is set. There is no 250 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.399 actual life sentences in Canada. There is no such sentence 251 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:34.559 as an actual life sentence without parole, so there's no 252 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:37.279 we start off with that. We obviously we don't have 253 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:38.919 the death penalty, and a lot of the states in 254 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:41.320 the US don't have the death penalty. Lots of states 255 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.240 in the US aren't actually executing people even though they 256 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:47.159 have a death penalty. But the way we start is 257 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:51.200 that we we do not have a sentence of life 258 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.600 without parole we do not have. 259 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:55.919 Say, you might may have. 260 00:14:55.919 --> 00:15:00.279 Heard of of Robert Picton in British Columbia, the pig 261 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.879 farmer that is accused of killing up to upwards of 262 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:07.360 forty nine women. However, he was tried for six women, 263 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:13.639 and despite being sentenced for six murders, he still only 264 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:17.679 is charged with one. In terms of sentencing only there's 265 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:23.080 only there's only a consecutive there is no consecutive sentencing. 266 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.000 It's called concurrent sentencing. 267 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:26.559 So we also have. 268 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:35.440 A even voluntary intoxication can result in a charge being 269 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:40.080 reduced from first or second degree murder to manslaughter, even 270 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:46.480 though manslaughter a life sentence is allowable in following precedent. 271 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.759 According to what the Canadian law says, a lot of 272 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:54.840 these sentences are around four years in total for something 273 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:56.000 that maybe would. 274 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:58.200 Be is Ryan here and I have a question for you. 275 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:00.399 What do you do when you win? 276 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:00.879 Like? 277 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:04.120 Are you a fist pumper, a will, a handclapper, a 278 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:05.960 high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But 279 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:07.679 if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 280 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.000 check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbacasino dot com. Choose from 281 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.679 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 282 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:17.480 redeem serious cash prize. There are new game releases weekly 283 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.440 plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait start having the 284 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:23.240 most fun ever at Chumba Casino dot com. 285 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:25.240 No, we're just necessarily d void where everybody lost in 286 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:26.639 terms conditions eighty plus. 287 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:27.320 Be considered murder. 288 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:31.840 In the United States, we are having cases where it's 289 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:36.559 considered manslaughter because alcohol is involved or provocation is involved. 290 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:40.320 And we had just said something that was just changed 291 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:42.919 by the conservative government, which is very similar to your 292 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:49.120 Republican government, a more conservative government, where that government ended 293 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:53.120 the two for one credit for pre trial custody time, 294 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:57.120 so a person would spend say three years in custody 295 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.480 awaiting their trial, that would count as six years. So 296 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:02.879 you can see that how you could get easily in 297 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:08.319 three or four years somebody released from prison doing their 298 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.559 full time for a charge that would in the United 299 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:14.240 States and other jurisdictions in the world will be considered murder. 300 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:20.400 So there is that difference in Canadian laws. So why 301 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.200 there was this urgency in this desperation for me and 302 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:27.599 why I was personally afraid of anything other than this 303 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.799 person being convicted a second to be murder, is that 304 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.519 certainly if he was convicted of manslaughter, he would be 305 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:39.319 out before he's forty years of age, and he would 306 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:44.119 realize that I testified against him and betrayed him, and 307 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.640 there's much more to the story. Anybody that's capable of 308 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.880 doing this, in my personal belief, should never be released 309 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:52.799 from prison or let alone. 310 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:54.400 In a few years. There is no fixing. 311 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:57.839 And that's why the title of it. You know, I 312 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:02.200 do call talk about the psychopath mind and consider this 313 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:06.440 a psychopathic killer. So I'm maybe getting a little bit 314 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.240 ahead of you some of these questions. 315 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.759 But yeah, I didn't know that about the Canadian law, 316 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.359 it's quite different. But did Sidney terryu'se pay for his defense? 317 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:15.559 And who was his lawyer? 318 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.559 Well, in Canadian law unlike again American law, and I'll continue, 319 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.240 is that in American law, if you do not have 320 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:28.839 the funds for defense counsel, then a lawyer will be 321 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:33.720 appointed to you. And that lawyer that you're appointed doesn't 322 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.559 mean you're bound to use that lawyer. But that's the 323 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.799 way it works. You do not have your personal choice 324 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:43.880 of whatever lawyer you want, maybe a lawyer in another state. 325 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:46.480 It doesn't quite work that way in the United States. 326 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:51.319 Of America where in Canada. The lawyer in this particular case, 327 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:54.880 to show you a really good example, has defended more 328 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.720 killers than anybody else in the English speaking world. And 329 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:01.599 he's almost that seven hundred cases, which I don't know 330 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:03.799 if you that sounds like a lot of cases, but 331 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:06.880 it is to put in perspective, he has the most. 332 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.039 He has conducted the most and been involved with the 333 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:14.000 most murder trials in the English speaking world, which means 334 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:17.400 there's not many more people that have ever been involved 335 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:22.759 with more murder cases. Now, the government paid for this trial, 336 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:26.079 and many and most murder trials are paid by the government, 337 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:29.640 so it's a little different rule. And this lawyer being 338 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.839 that experience. Again, I have a little bit of a 339 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:36.559 problem with a lawyer gaining this much experience on the 340 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.880 public tab. And then another part of the story. Again 341 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:42.759 I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, But the 342 00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:48.839 book does talk about what that lawyer will do in 343 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:54.079 his mind, how he defines his obligations as a as 344 00:19:54.079 --> 00:20:00.480 a lawyer, and specifically, what I talk about is that 345 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:06.480 under any type of the the foundation of the law 346 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:08.799 itself or a couple of rules, and one of those 347 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:12.720 rules is that the defense lawyers not to lie on 348 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.000 his client's behalf, nor put his client up on the 349 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:19.440 stand to lie to perjure himself. 350 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.640 You're holding out here. You got to you gotta let 351 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.640 the counter of the bank who is this lawyer and 352 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.000 give some famous cases he's known for. You can't keep 353 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.440 us in suspense until the book comes out. Come on 354 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:34.799 the public ones to know well. 355 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:39.920 The lawyer's name is Greg Brodsky, and Greg Brodsky is 356 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:43.000 a well known Winnipeg lawyer, but operates in a couple 357 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:46.839 other provinces, and his the case he's well known for 358 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:52.359 is is battered Women's syndrome, and that case he's spearheaded 359 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:58.839 in Canadian courts, it had been it had been decided 360 00:20:58.880 --> 00:20:59.880 in American courts. 361 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:01.440 I just previous to that. 362 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.799 I think the case that people would remember the most 363 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:08.000 about him, if especially in America, would be that he 364 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:13.920 was on He was on the defense for Paul Bernardo 365 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:18.920 in his appeal after his murder trial. Carlo Hamlco Paul Bernardo, 366 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:26.720 famous Barbie and Ken murder torture couple. Anyway, these guys 367 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:28.319 were so. 368 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:30.279 Well. 369 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:32.559 I mean, I don't have any problem with a lawyer 370 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:35.640 defending anyone. Someone has to defend these people, and that's 371 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.359 the cornerstone of our judicial system. I think people get 372 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:43.079 that wrong and don't misunderstand my position. It's just the 373 00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:46.559 extent what will Again, I don't want to get into 374 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.160 this dry conversation. 375 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:49.480 But it is. 376 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.799 You know, there is a part of the book we'll 377 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:57.240 talk about what his responsibilities are. What I did was 378 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:00.799 I was a bit snaky, I got to admit, and 379 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:06.640 I was corresponding with the Greg Brodsky's client for a year. 380 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:10.359 I had all kinds of information and I was doing 381 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.559 my radio show and I asked Greg Brosky to come 382 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:15.640 on my radio program to interview him. And like he 383 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:17.640 asked at the trial, he says, well, you were trying 384 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.480 to discredit this case. What I was trying to do 385 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:24.440 with the information that I had was just find out 386 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.839 what this whole process was. This was an incredible learning 387 00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.880 experience for me, and so what I wanted to know 388 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:35.319 was how if you are not to tell a lie, 389 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:37.680 and you're not to let your client tell a lie 390 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:40.079 on the stand, then how do you determine the truth. 391 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.400 Maybe I'm being really simplistic about it, but that's what 392 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:44.119 I wanted to know. 393 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.359 Pardon me that sounds pretty straightforward to me. 394 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:52.359 But there's another title of this book, the Trial Revelations 395 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:55.880 of a Psychopathic Killer. What did the killer reveal to you? 396 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.279 And why would he do that? 397 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.680 I don't want to give everything away, but what he 398 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:10.440 did reveal to me was the time of death, the motive, 399 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:14.359 as far as I'm concerned, and I did save my 400 00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:19.119 bit in court about that, where the organs were, with 401 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.640