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Speaker 1: Helloha. This is Richie Peckner, Mali resident, just finished three

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rounds with Fred Green here on the island. This is

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Golf Smarter episode nine hundred and ninety six. When you

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asked me what's more important where I spend my time

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chipping and putting? There's a lot more variability in chipping

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because you have different lives. On the putting green, you

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have a pretty good lie, but there's so much when

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a ball is not on a green that you have

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to understand how your club interacts with the ground, what

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kind of bounce you have on your wedges? Is it

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into the grain? Is the down green? The other day

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I was giving a chipping lesson and I said, you

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have a couple options here. First look at the grass

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on the green and part of it was kind of

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this pale, shiny look to it, and the other one

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was deep green. I said, well, the deep green is

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into the grain, and then you have down green. So

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where are you going to land it? Because if you

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landed in the grain, it's going to kill it. You

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landed down green, it's going to skid on you. How

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are you going to manage this shot? And so a

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big variability to just get where the ball's going to

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land on the green, and the person's like, well, I

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never even thought about that, And sure enough, he hits

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his first one into the downgrain area, skids, goes about

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fifteen tet pass. It's his next shot a little shorter,

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lands into the grain, ends about ten feet short, and

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he didn't miss it either one of them. But he's

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not going to make it too. He's going to make

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a three. So how are we going to manage that?

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Speaker 2: Master your game like it's presented on TV, one shot

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at a time. Their old friend, Josh Xander. This is

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Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf

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minds to help you lower your score and raise your

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golf IQ.

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Speaker 1: There's your host, Fred Green.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Josh, Oh, thank you for having me again. Fred. It's

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always a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Oh it sounds so good. You got a real microphone? Yeah, baby,

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let's go just in time for episode one for you, Fred, listen,

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I made a list, not a long list. I made

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a short list of the people I want to have

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come back leading up to episode one thousand, or hovering

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around episode one thousand, and you are very high on

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the list, my friend, because every time you're on, my

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game improves for at least two months.

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Speaker 1: Well then maybe I just need to be on every

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two months.

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Speaker 2: Okay, no, No, I mean you're you're such a articulate

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and well thought out coach that everything that comes out

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of your mouth is like, oh, that's what that means.

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So I love having you on ever since we first

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met at a at a clinic.

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Speaker 1: You were a long time ago, long time ago.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, thank you for for being a regular, sure

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and for sharing all your wisdom with us. But let's

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have a conversation. Yeah, okay, fine. So I read recently

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that different things, but one said is trying to eliminate

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doubles is easier than trying to make more birdies. What's

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your thought on that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's all about how you're You know,

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you've got the Golf Smarter podcast how to Play Smarter,

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And one of the things about trying to make birdies

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as you're starting to probably take more risks than are necessary.

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So I tell people, listen, if a tour player makes

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half their eight footers once they're outside of eight feet,

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they're missing more than they make. How often are you

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hitting an approach shot in the green, say from one

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even one hundred and fifty yards, and you're going after

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a pin, you're going to have to get it within

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ten feet to have a reasonable chance of making a birdie.

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But it's pretty easy to put from twenty five or

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thirty feet if you've got reasonable lag you know, lag

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piting skills. So why take the risk, Because if you

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try to go for a tuck pin and you end

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up short sighting yourself, that's where you start making double bogies.

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So stop trying to make birdies. Hit the hit the

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I always like, you know, hearing what Tiger and Jack

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Nicholas have say, make aggressive, swing to a conservative target,

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hit the correct part of the green, the fat side

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of the green as we like to call it. And

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if you you know, if you happen to miss, you

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might miss on the side that the that the flag's on,

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and then you have your easy birdie putt. But you've

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got to understand that every shot has a dispersion pattern,

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and if you aim in a to a dangerous pin

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and your dispersion pattern, part of that is in a

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difficult place. As we start making double bogies. I like

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Johnny Miller years ago called it. You got your red light,

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your red light flags, your green light flags, and your yellows, right,

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so you always go after the greens. Those are the

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ones that are in the safe parts of the green.

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You never ever go on the reds, And if you

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happen to be on, you could do some yellows if

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you're like, man, I'm dialed in today. That was like

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Johnny Miller's may have of thinking about it. I would

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take it a step further and say, if you're really

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a smart golfer, like like Tiger, you would probably not

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even go after the yellows. You'd have the kind of

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discipline to not go after the yellows because it's so

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hard to recover from a double bogie. So I use

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this example. I said, listen, let's say you doubled the

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first hole. Let's say you're a tour player and you

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double the first hole because you went after a pin

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you shouldn't have gone after. Okay, now you're two over.

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Part in order for you to get back to even

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just by the ninth hole, imagine the next eight holes

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were four hundred and eighty yard par fours, which are

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kind of short par fours for the tour players these days.

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From one hundred yards away, actually, from eighty yards away,

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a tour player will score two point seventy five. Okay,

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so a quarter of a shot under part like on

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a little part three. Right, So imagine the next eight

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holes were four hundred eighty yards and you could drive

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the ball in the fairway four hundred yards. Now you're

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eighty yards away. Now by the ninth hole you're back

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to even. So nobody drives it in the fairway four

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hundred yards anyway. That shows you how horrible a double

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bogue is for a tour player, right to recover from,

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just to get back to even, and usually even after

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nine yard trailing in the tournament anyway. So as a

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weekend golfer, if you can stop, if you can start

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taking some of those doubles off the off the score,

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off the scorecard, just by playing smarter, not by getting

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any better at golf, just being a better decision maker.

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You're going to make your birdies here and there. Don't

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force the birdies. Just play smart golf. Smarter.

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Speaker 2: He figured it out.

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Speaker 1: It takes you know, it's easy for us if you

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were going to do it. Yeah, it's easy for us.

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Here in an office, you know, talking about it and

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not being emotional about it. But if you could manage

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yourself as a human being, which is a huge skill

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on the golf course, and be disciplined enough to say,

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you know, even though I'd like to make a birdie

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on this whole, I'm still not going to shoot for it.

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I'm not going to shoot for that pen. That's just

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that's just that's being super disciplined. I was listening to

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Russell Henley talk about his practic sessions and he mentioned

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that when he gets his track men out there, he'll

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he'll set a target and then it hit five shots

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ten yards right of it, five shots ten yards left

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of it. Because he goes we rarely shoot a pins.

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We're always shooting to one side of the green or

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the other based on what the what the appropriate shot is.

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And there's a guy who's like mister methodical and he

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plays really smart golf. He's not the most talented guy

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out there. He's got a heck of a golf swing,

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but he's not the most powerful. And what he's your

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ranked top ten in the world now, I mean he's

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crazy good, but just super smart. So you get these two,

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you get these two talented players next to each other

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and one makes a smart decision and one makes an

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aggressive decision. You can call it it not so golf

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smarter decision. Then you know that might be the difference

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between you know, you're you're winning the tournament or you're

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missing the cut. Just decision making. So that's a huge

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part of it. And it's a skill that I think

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people think, I got to get better golf. I gotta

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get I got a hit as straighter I go, I

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gotta chip it better, I get. Yeah, all that stuff

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is true, but hey, I got to be a better

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decision maker. And then hold yourself accountable, Like after the round,

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think to yourself if you could take like five minutes

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after round and you know, take the emotion out of

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and say where could I have saved shots? What just

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my decision making? What could I have done to you know,

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save save shots? Could I have saved shots on one

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or two or three whatever the holes that you quote

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unquote messed up on? It is like what could I

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have done differently? There? Just decision making, not talent wise,

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not better technique, just what could I have done? And

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and you might save yourself quite a few shots there

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so there's a long answer to a short, short question.

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Speaker 2: It's okay. I love the long answers because you get

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into stuff that you you don't even know you were

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going to get there, and you do. I because I'll

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never forget that. You once explained that if you if

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you shoot over the green, if you miss the green behind,

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you're getting double bogie. Never forget that.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's the worst place to miss the green. I mean,

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I'm sure that the story has been told by me

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on your podcast. But my golf coach in college, wal

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the Goodwin Rest in peace. He said, you know, if

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you don't know what to do, please miss short because

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you can always chip up a hill, you can always

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hit a bunker shop. But you're over at green. You're

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in somebody's backyard, a cart path, a flower bed, a downhill,

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lie going to a green that runs away from you.

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It's just it's just it's where it's where scores go

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to die behind the greens.

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Speaker 2: So the most common question for teachers with students when

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a student comes in, you know, what are you looking for?

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The question is always either greater distance or more consistency? Right,

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I mean, after this many interviews, I've heard this numerous

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times from a variety of coaches. Yeah, they either want

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more consistency or greater distance, and they're not willing to

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do the physical workout that require is required to get

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greater distance. You don't get it from a ball, you

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don't get it from a club. You get it from

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your body.

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Speaker 1: Right, The most important piece of equipment is you? Is you? Yeah,

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you can get I mean you can definitely get. You

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can get clubs that fits you better and clubs that

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you can swing faster. But there's a certain point where

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there's a diminsion return there. And I used to have

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a fitness professional's name is Chris Thompson come in and

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help me with my junior clinics, and and he would

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look at everybody and say, Okay, what's the most important

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piece of equipment? And they'd be like driver, putter, chip,

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you know, wedge. He's like, no, it's you, it's you.

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And then how are you? How are you feeding that

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piece of equipment during around? Are you? Are you hydrating it?

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Are you nourishing it? You know all that kind of stuff.

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It's it's like we we kind of gloss over that

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pretty quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So on the consistency part, how many teachers when

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someone says I want more consistent, how many futures say,

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all right, then we have to improve your decision making, right,

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you got to be a better to be a more

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consistent golfer, You've got to you know, and if you

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want that to be reflecting your scorecard, then you've got

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to make better decisions. It's not about hitting the ball, right.

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Do coaches ever say that there maybe on a playing lesson.

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Speaker 1: But well, yeah, sometimes I'll put it to the The

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answer is, I'm sure there are plenty of coaches out

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there that do performance coaches and you know, all around

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good good golf instructors who are literally coaching their students

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to be better players. So one of the things I

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say to people when they first come and see me,

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and I'm kind of trying to figure out what they want,

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because really it's about what they want, not about what

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I want. Yeah, so I want to find that out.

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But if they want to be a better scorer, right,

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we have to talk about the decision making. I said, listen,

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what if we I'll ask my question like what's your

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what's your index and CAAMA ten, your average score whatever.

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Somewhere in the mid mid eighties, and I said, okay,

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what if we were doing a reality show? And I said, okay,

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a year from now, you and I have to go

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on TV and you have to break eighty and you're

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counting every shot. How are we going to approach this?

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My reputation is on the line as a coach. You

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don't want to embarrass yourself in front of the world. Right,

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You've got to break eighty and you're ten right now.

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But a year from now, let's say we get you

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down to like a five or six and you can

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go break break eighty, Like, well, how would we go

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about that? How do we How would we spend our time?

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Would be would be would we be out here trying

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to make your five iron and go straight every time?

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Where would we spend our time? Would be on the

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golf course? You know, how would we actually go about this? Now?

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The pressure's on, right performance? How are we going to perform? Right?

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So one of the biggest things how you manage yourself

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as a human being on the golf course. Because you

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might have all the skills, and I think we've talked

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about this before, but it's like, how are you able

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to access your skills when you know when at times

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when when it comes time to perform, you know what

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kind of st date of mind you're going to put

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yourself in. Are you nervous? Of course you're nervous. How

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do you manage your nerves? Are you doing breathing exercises?

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You know? How do you how do you recover from

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a bad break mentally? Right? How do you stay in

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the present. I like to tell people, and forgive me

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if I'm repeating myself, but I think that you should

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you should play golf more like how we watch golf

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on TV. You watch golf on TV, You're like, Okay,

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let's watch Adam Scott hit his drive on number three. Now,

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let's go watch you know, John Ram chip it on twelve.

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Let's go watch Jordan Speeth Putt's ball on fourteen. Right,

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So we're going from individual shot to individual shots. So

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I read shots like its own little adventure, right, and

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you get immersed in, oh, this is a left right

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downhill Pitt. He's going to have to hit it softly,

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and you know the grain's going this way, and so

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we're all into that shot. We're present to that moment.

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We're not saying, oh god, I double buggie the last time.

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I can't believe I three putted it. Now, it's all

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this influence is happening on this, on this current shot

283
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because you're carrying all this bag. You're not carrying the

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baggage when you see, oh, Adam Scott is hitting his

285
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drive on three, is he going to try to cut

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the corner? What's he going to do? What's the wind doing?

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Your present to that moment. And the more you can

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play golf like that, like a series of individual golf

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shots without any emotional baggage, you know, from what's happened

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before or what you're afraid might happen in the future,

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which is also not being in the present right. You know.

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So when we talk about that reality show, it's like,

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we need to get this person to be a performer,

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to be somebody who access their skills, somebody who can

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stay in the present, somebody who, yeah, we're going to

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work on your skills. We're going to make sure that

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you don't you don't chip it, you don't scull your chips,

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and you know, blade your bunker shots or leave it.

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You know, we got to do all that work too,

300
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but ultimately we have to access it because what good

301
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is having it. If you don't access this, access access it.

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And that's about how you manage yourself as a human being.

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So I think we would fail on the reality show

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if we didn't address that. And you know what, these days,

305
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there's so many people who specialize in all these different

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parts of the game. Right. You have like re Accessing

307
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House and and and Pian Nielsen and and Lynn marry

308
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On people like that who are awesome at helping people

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access their their skills right, their mental skills, their performance skills.

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And you have other people who are amazing and helping

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people technique. And then you have the you know, the

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the uh you know what do you call the Swiss

313
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Army knives coaches that kind of help a little bit

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with everything, which is what I feel like I can.

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I can help people with all parts of the game.

316
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I do not claim to be the biggest expert on

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explosive power, the biggest expert on putting. There are there

318
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are putting specialists there, they're power specialists. But you know,

319
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depending on what you feel you need, you can you can.

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I think I think of myself when I'm coaching, It's

321
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like I can help you with every part of the game.

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But if there's somebody else who can do something that

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that helps that, I'm like no ego involved in, Like, hey,

324
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let's get that person on our team. If that person's

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going to help us, you know, win the prize on

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the reality show, let's call that person up and bring

327
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them in because it's just like, just like it takes

328
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a village to raise raise a kid, and we have

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two of them, so we know we've got a big

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village around us helping us. I think same thing with

331
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with golfers. I think that there are a lot of

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resources out there, so let's get that. Let's get that

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sports psychologist, let's get that team. Just because you're not

334
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on the tour doesn't mean you can't have a team

335
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of people who can help you. And I feel like

336
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,200
I feel like we can all kind of chip in

337
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to help you get to where you want to be.

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Speaker 2: And you mentioned a minute ago about how we should

339
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be playing to the green, red light, yellow light, green light,

340
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to the fat part of the green, and then just

341
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getting your two put in. But in our practice sessions,

342
00:16:57,399 --> 00:17:01,519
should we spend more time because of being amateur golfers

343
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:07,200
who probably don't have our our distances dialed in the

344
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,559
way we should, and so we think we hit the

345
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ball farther than we do, so we end up coming

346
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:18,079
up short a lot, right, We're chipping up to get

347
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,720
close to try to part of the whole lag putting

348
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versus short chips chips around the green. Where should more

349
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time be spent working? What is going to be more

350
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valuable to us in the long run?

351
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Speaker 1: So you know the answer to every golf question, right,

352
00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:38,599
It is as Mike Adam says, it depends. That's the

353
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answer every golf right. So I don't know if are

354
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,319
you a really good lag putter but a poor chipper

355
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,880
spend more time chipping and vice versa. Right, So they're

356
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,519
both important skills. You want to try to get them

357
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:52,039
to be a two shot deal instead of a three

358
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shot deal in both cases. Right. So one of my

359
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,559
other mentors, Mike Lebove, you know we were talking about

360
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years ago, is probably in the early nineties we were

361
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,640
talking about this. He's like, you know what a single

362
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,440
digit golfer is? And then maybe I've mentioned this on

363
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,319
the show again, So I repeat my stories.

364
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Speaker 2: But a single day, okay, I do it more than

365
00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:09,799
you do.

366
00:18:10,279 --> 00:18:13,119
Speaker 1: A single digit golfer. Somebody who drives their ball in

367
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,880
the property at a reasonable distance, so you're not out

368
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of play with your t shot gets the second shot

369
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somewhere around the green, and as a disaster free short game,

370
00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:24,839
So no skulls, no chunks, no three putts you know

371
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,160
or few or three putts that somebody can play golf,

372
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,680
you know reasonably in play, reasonably somewhere around the green.

373
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,920
You don't have to hit ten to twelve greens around

374
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to be a single digit golfer. You can hit four

375
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,799
or five greens around if you have a reasonable short

376
00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:40,359
game and you don't get penalty strokes and drive it

377
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,920
out of play. It's really not that tough of a formula.

378
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,680
And then but when you add the fact that we're

379
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human beings playing golf and we get upset, and we

380
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,680
get we have to manage ourselves and all kind of

381
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,480
stuff get it gets more difficult. But I definitely want

382
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:59,880
all my students to understand how to make solid con

383
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,160
attacked on short game shots and how to be able

384
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to read lies. Reading lies is a huge skill. What

385
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,079
every lie tells a story, So what story is this?

386
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,119
Why telling you? So the other day I'm teaching this

387
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,640
little ten year old, this whole ten year old girl

388
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,400
who was in from Korea. It was really she's awesome

389
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,519
and she would We were talking about uneven lies and

390
00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:26,480
weird lies around the greens, and I said, you know,

391
00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:28,559
every lie tells a story. So I said, hey, this

392
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,119
golf ball is talking to you right now. So I said,

393
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,839
I'm the golf ball. I'm talking. Boy. There's so much

394
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,440
grass around me right now, it's going to be really

395
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,559
hard to get this club to hit me. That player

396
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,799
better firm up their wrists so this club doesn't get

397
00:19:43,799 --> 00:19:46,599
twisted by this grass. It's all around me, and I

398
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,160
better come in that club better come in steeper, because

399
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,559
if it doesn't come in steeper, it's not going to

400
00:19:50,559 --> 00:19:51,799
get to the bottom of me, and I'm not going

401
00:19:51,799 --> 00:19:53,799
to get up in the air. So that kind of

402
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,480
sounds kind of stupid, ridiculous. She's laughing as I'm saying

403
00:19:56,519 --> 00:19:59,000
this to her, But I'm like, this ball is talking

404
00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:01,359
to you. It's telling you what needs to happen here.

405
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,319
And if you don't understand how to read a lie,

406
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,319
you can make what you think is a good swing

407
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,880
and hit a horrible golf shot. So being a good

408
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,680
player is about being able to analyze the lie, understand

409
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:17,839
how the club needs to be working in order to

410
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,359
be efficient out of that lie, and then how it

411
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,559
affects your distance control and so on and so on

412
00:20:23,559 --> 00:20:27,599
and so on. So that's that comes with some education

413
00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:30,759
from your coach, but a lot of experimentation. The great

414
00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:34,039
short game players they compete with their friends and they

415
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:37,200
put balls in. Remember when Noda and Tiger were at

416
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,079
Stanford and they used to have short game contests and

417
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,519
just give themselves the worst possible lies and see who

418
00:20:42,519 --> 00:20:44,839
could who could get themselves out of it and put

419
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,759
some put some money on it. That's how you really

420
00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:49,640
get good at it. I had a chance to play

421
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:51,079
a Serendifitaucy.

422
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 2: That wasn't college students putting money on No.

423
00:20:54,079 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 1: I think it was push ups or sit ups. I

424
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,359
don't think they were putting money on it. This is

425
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,279
a story, right, So I think that that kind of stuff.

426
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,039
Like when you ask me, you know what's more important?

427
00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:09,039
Where sh I spend my time chipping and putting? I

428
00:21:09,079 --> 00:21:12,400
think there's a lot more variability in chipping because you

429
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,000
have different lies. On the putting green, you have a

430
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,960
pretty good lie. So you do have to read grain,

431
00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:19,000
you have to read break, you have to understand speed

432
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:21,200
and all that kind of stuff, But there's so much

433
00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:23,559
when a ball is not on a green that you

434
00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:26,359
have to understand how your club interacts with the ground,

435
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,440
what kind of bounce you have on your wedges? You know,

436
00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:31,279
is it into the grain? Is the down grain is

437
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,839
you know? The other day I was giving a chipping

438
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,119
lesson and I said, you have a couple options here.

439
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,240
First look at the grass on the green, and part

440
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,359
of it was kind of this pale, shiny look to it,

441
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:42,920
and the other one was deep green. I said, well,

442
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,519
the deep green is into the grain, and then you

443
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:46,039
have down green. So where are you going to land it?

444
00:21:46,039 --> 00:21:47,359
Because if you land it in the grain is going

445
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:48,839
to kill it. If you land it down grain, it's

446
00:21:48,839 --> 00:21:51,039
going to skid on you. How are you going to

447
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,039
manage this shot? Right? And so a big variability to

448
00:21:54,079 --> 00:21:56,160
just get just once the ball where the ball is

449
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,519
going to land on the green. So and the person's like,

450
00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:02,039
well even thought about that, And sure enough he hits

451
00:22:02,079 --> 00:22:05,319
his first one into the down grain area, skids and

452
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,599
goes about fifteen feet pass hits his next shot a

453
00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:10,839
little shorter, lands into the grain, ends about ten feet short,

454
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,799
and he didn't miss hit either one of them, but

455
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,640
he's not going to make a two. He's going to

456
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,400
make a three, So how are we going to manage that?

457
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,400
You know? So those kinds of things, and that's that

458
00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:24,119
maybe is different than somebody saying I need a chipping

459
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,680
lesson because I tend to scull the chunk of my chips.

460
00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:29,440
You know, like, yeah, okay, that's part of it. But

461
00:22:29,519 --> 00:22:31,200
how are we going to turn three shots into two

462
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,640
and occasionally turn two shots into one? Which is kind

463
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,799
of cool. I was at a conference one time and

464
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,680
Matt Coocher's got a great short game, was hitting some

465
00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:42,640
chips and he kind of looks over at us. He goes,

466
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,839
he goes, from where I'm chipping right here, guys on

467
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:48,039
the guys I'm competing competing against will make it more

468
00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:50,880
than they'll make a three. They usually make a two,

469
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,720
but they'll make it more often than they'll take three

470
00:22:52,759 --> 00:22:54,759
shots to get in the hole. So that's what he's

471
00:22:54,759 --> 00:22:57,880
competing against. You think he's not going to take care

472
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,359
about what's you know, what kind of lie had? House

473
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,119
clubs can interact. I mean, the other thing he did,

474
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,799
which I thought was really cool was between every wed

475
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,000
shot he hit, he took a tea out of his

476
00:23:09,079 --> 00:23:11,559
pocket and he cleaned out the grooves. He never hit

477
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:16,720
a shot without perfectly cleaning groups. Okay, we're like, oh,

478
00:23:16,759 --> 00:23:18,880
I'm gonna chip chip for half an hour and you

479
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,279
never cleaned your club once. Yeah, So how do you

480
00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:27,400
expect to really have your brain understand trajectory, spin all

481
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,799
that kind of stuff if you've got variability on your

482
00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:30,319
club face.

483
00:23:31,519 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind of obsessed about cleaning my clubs after

484
00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:41,599
every shot for the last year or so. Well, prior

485
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,920
to that, my short game I felt good about. I

486
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,359
felt good about getting close to the hole, chipping up

487
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,440
on the green, But in the last year it's disappeared.

488
00:23:53,079 --> 00:23:59,480
I chunk, I skull it, I double hit it right,

489
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,400
it'll hit it and then hit it again while it's

490
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,519
still in the air, and I've been just frustrated. My

491
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,400
confidence is shot there. Walking up to the ball, I'm like, oh, no,

492
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,559
as opposed to I love this shot right right, and

493
00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:16,480
then boy, this is not where I want to go.

494
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,079
But I saw a video on YouTube. But it was

495
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,960
Phil Mickelson, who is a phenomenal instructor as far as

496
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,759
his videos and how he explains things, and he was

497
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,960
talking about making sure that your lead hand for right

498
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,039
hand golf, it's your left hand, the wrist doesn't break,

499
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,480
and you keep it the arm and the hand out.

500
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,000
I don't know if I'm explaining this properly, but I

501
00:24:46,079 --> 00:24:48,960
watched him do it, and I went in my you know,

502
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,240
I have a short game practice area in my yard,

503
00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:54,720
and it was working. And you know, he says, here,

504
00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:57,079
if you want to get more height on it, put

505
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,400
it in the front.

506
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: Of your stands. He likes forward and back. He doesn't

507
00:25:01,759 --> 00:25:03,400
like anything in the middle. He's like, are you trying

508
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,559
to hit it lower? You're trying to hit it out.

509
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,039
Make a decision right.

510
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: Right, but don't break the risks. Keep your hand, your wrist,

511
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,440
your left your lead risk firm and don't break your wrist.

512
00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:16,440
And it was working. Now I haven't had a chance

513
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,640
to get to the course with it, but I'm practicing

514
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:19,359
it a lot. Right.

515
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:26,319
Speaker 1: You agree, you know the answer every question? Right? It depends, Yeah,

516
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,240
it depends what your mistake is. Right. So I go

517
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,359
into every lesson with a very kind of with no

518
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,599
preconceived notions. I just want to see what the person's doing. Yeah,

519
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,160
And once I understand what the person's doing, It may

520
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,440
it may need to be more of a firm lead

521
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,359
hand and don't break down your wrist. But maybe something

522
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,279
totally different. It could be swinging on a plane that's

523
00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:48,839
so incorrect that they're low points in the wrong place.

524
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,000
They could have a pressure shift issue where they're not

525
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:57,200
moving to their lead leg. I mean, there's so many

526
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,000
different variables. So I just I did a talk years

527
00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:06,039
ago for the Northern California PGA where I said, when

528
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:08,039
I was talking about how I go through a lesson,

529
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:10,759
I said, the first thing I do is well, I interviewed,

530
00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:13,680
get information, but then I observe and I just wait.

531
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:17,119
I wait to see exactly what this person needs before

532
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,720
I give them any piece of advice. And it might

533
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:21,119
only be waiting five seconds. I might not need that longer.

534
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,119
I might need a few shots to be able to

535
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,000
see what's going on and then help them understand why

536
00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:30,440
the shot is happening and then what they need to

537
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,480
do in order to get the correct contact. And that's

538
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,559
different from player to player. If I have somebody who's

539
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:44,640
got so much lead arm lack of breakdown, so to speak,

540
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,640
where they cannot get the ball up in the air

541
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:49,200
even with their sixty because there's so little offt on it.

542
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,839
I might actually tell them to break their wrists earlier,

543
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,039
which would be heresy if you're talking about Phil Michaelson's thinking.

544
00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:57,279
But we might be both trying to get them to

545
00:26:57,319 --> 00:26:59,599
the same place. But you got to understand when you

546
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,920
watch it video Phil Nicholson saying how he does it,

547
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:04,759
he doesn't get a chance to see what you currently do.

548
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:06,359
You're in front of me, and I get to see

549
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,240
what you currently doing and say, oh, that Phil Nicholson

550
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:10,359
thing is perfect for you. Or if you do more

551
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,440
of that Phil Nicholson thing, your ball is going to

552
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,119
go racing across the green because you're not going to

553
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,160
have any loft on your wedge anymore because you're leading

554
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,720
so much with your lead arm. So again I go

555
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:20,759
back to it, it depends on what the player needs.

556
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:22,519
And I think if Phil was here, you totally agree

557
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:24,640
with me on that. I mean, Phil's a very bright,

558
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:31,440
you know, very very thoughtful person. And ultimately, what you

559
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,559
want to do is you want to present the club

560
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,160
in a way that helps it interact correctly with the

561
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,759
ground and produces the trajectory and role profile that you're

562
00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:44,359
looking for for that particular shot, and then what do

563
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,799
you need to do to do that? And in some

564
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,160
cases you may need more of what Phil's talking about.

565
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,160
In some cases you may need something something different. I

566
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,240
got I don't know what the best word is, but

567
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,400
I got a lot of grief on the internet when

568
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,079
I actually said the exact opposite. I said, I try

569
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,240
to get my lead wrist into a little bit more extension,

570
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,640
a little bit more cupping position. Especially if I'm trying

571
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,559
to get this ball up in the air a little

572
00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:14,279
bit more, I need more loft. If I did the opposite,

573
00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:16,559
it would take off. But if I'm looking to get

574
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:18,720
it more up in the air and I've got the

575
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:22,400
bounce sliding, I can do that and get some softness

576
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,640
on my shot right. And they're like, oh, you got

577
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,880
to have your lead rest or like what Phil Micholson's

578
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,160
saying or whatever, you know, more forward leaning your shaft

579
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,440
and more downward strike. And I'm like, I'm really good

580
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,599
at hitting this high soft pitch shot with a little

581
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:39,039
bit more extension where the shaft is leaning backwards. So

582
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:43,359
what I tell people's listen, when I set up to

583
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,759
hit a short game shot, I present a certain amount

584
00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:50,359
of loft. I'd like to have at the moment of

585
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,880
the strike, and then I want to make sure my

586
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,759
club is stable enough and returns to that loft to

587
00:28:56,839 --> 00:28:59,279
produce the trajectory and role I'm looking for for that

588
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:04,480
particular shot. So it's interesting you hear a lot of

589
00:29:05,519 --> 00:29:06,920
I'll share a story with you. I was playing at

590
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,519
Olympic Club and I short sided myself, you know, because

591
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:13,000
I went for a pin that I should know, or

592
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:14,880
actually I wasn't trying to go for that pin. I

593
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,599
just overhooked the golf ball. It's just not a good

594
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,839
golf shot. And I ended up short sighted myself, which happens.

595
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,599
And I hit this beautiful, high soft pitch to about

596
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:24,920
two feet and the guy was playing with said, oh,

597
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,440
you got such soft hands, and I said, thank you.

598
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,039
And my hands were so opposite of soft. My hands

599
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:36,079
were on their like a vice because I wanted to

600
00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:39,079
make sure that the ninety degrees aloft because I laid

601
00:29:39,119 --> 00:29:42,119
the lowboage wide open, was going to be there at

602
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,440
the moment of impact through the rough, So my hands

603
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,119
were anything but soft. The ball came off super soft, fluffy,

604
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:51,519
like a landed like a deflated beach ball, as they

605
00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:54,119
like to say, right butterfly with sore wings. It was

606
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:56,440
a beautiful high soft shot. I'll brag about it, but

607
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,960
my hands were not soft. My forms were super strong.

608
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,160
I'm very pressurized to stabilize that club face to the

609
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,720
position I needed to produce the exact trajectory I was

610
00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:09,880
looking for to hit that shot. And I guarantee you

611
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,960
I did not have a lot of forward leaning the

612
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,799
shaft because if I did, it wouldn't have been a

613
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:17,440
high soft shot. So again, it goes back to it

614
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,519
depends on what you're trying to do with the shot.

615
00:30:25,799 --> 00:30:28,359
Speaker 2: All right, here's another line that I read recently. I

616
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,279
love you, know, like when I see something, I'll pull

617
00:30:30,319 --> 00:30:32,720
it out and hold it off, and I'll go through

618
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,960
it on almost every interview, but you're the one that

619
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,000
I really love to ask these questions. So this line said,

620
00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:42,759
for amateurs, assume a mishit shot travels closer to ten

621
00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:46,039
percent shorter, so that one hundred and fifty yard shot

622
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,799
goes just shy of one hundred and forty yards when

623
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:54,039
there's trouble short budget. Accordingly, so we think, oh, I've

624
00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:55,799
got one hundred and fifty yards that's going to be

625
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,359
my seven iron, right, Because one time I hit my

626
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,759
seven iron one hundred and forty nine yards, so I'm

627
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:05,240
going to pull it out and not even considering that

628
00:31:05,319 --> 00:31:08,319
I'm maybe in the rough on that, you know, and

629
00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:13,759
it's wet and it's against grain. Talk about decision making

630
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,000
on club.

631
00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: Selection, Yeah, it's a tricky thing. I think a lot

632
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,880
of it is being able to assess the lie. I

633
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,759
think a lot of it is managing your ego. I

634
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:26,680
think a lot of it is being organized. When I

635
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,720
say organized, there are so many devices out there where

636
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:35,039
you can measure your distances now that you don't. It

637
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:36,799
doesn't take a lot of money to know how far

638
00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:40,039
your ball goes these days. And back when I was

639
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:42,799
playing professionally in the early nineties, I was working on

640
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:45,599
my distance wedges with you know, I'd gone to the

641
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,799
Dave Pel school and it was helping me measure everything.

642
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:50,359
And I literally went out with one of my teammates

643
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,680
from Stanford and we went out and measured our yardages.

644
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,039
And we went to the hardware store and got one

645
00:31:56,079 --> 00:31:58,480
of those wheels where we'd wheel out and get foot

646
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,480
by foot and then put down owls at every five yards,

647
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,240
and then one of us would be out there charting

648
00:32:03,359 --> 00:32:06,119
it as we hit. Now you can you got a

649
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:07,680
little device you put behind your ball and say, oh,

650
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,240
that one's sixty three yards. I mean, you need to

651
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:12,440
know how far you hit the golf ball. And you

652
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,440
need to be honest with yourself. Okay, I'm practicing it's

653
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,279
seventy degrees and sunny, it's not going to be the

654
00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:21,559
same when it's fifty degrees and you know, thicker air, foggy, whatever,

655
00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:24,039
dense or air, it's not going to go as far.

656
00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:26,799
So and windy conditions. You need to take all that,

657
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,079
all that stuff into account. What's the lie? Is the

658
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,319
grass growing with me? Is a grain grown against me?

659
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,319
Is do I have a clean access to the back

660
00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:35,599
of the ball. There's all this stuff. It's like, yeah,

661
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,440
my seven ar might go one to fifty, but in

662
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,759
which condition does it going one to fifty? Right? So

663
00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:42,720
you need to be smart about that, and then you

664
00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:47,039
need to make good decisions if there is trouble in front.

665
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,880
You know, what's what's your You know, you've got to

666
00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:51,720
count for the fact that you might miss it a

667
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,519
little bit, and you can't account for a disaster shot.

668
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:58,160
There's no strategy that allows you to account for a

669
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,720
disastrous shot right, like total chunking or sculling is like,

670
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,559
you can't plan for that. But if I hit a

671
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:07,279
reasonable shot and it's not going to go quite my

672
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:09,440
usual distance, am I still going to be? Okay? You

673
00:33:09,559 --> 00:33:13,880
have to take that, take that into account. But in

674
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,880
the back of my mind, I always go back to

675
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,640
what we talked about earlier today, which is if you

676
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,519
flush one and it goes over the green, that's a

677
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:26,200
double at best, right, So you need to you need

678
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,039
to be careful with that. So I don't know if

679
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:32,640
there's a great answer, but just know that you're not

680
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,640
You're not a machine. You're not perfect. You're not going

681
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,000
to hit every ball on the button. You're not going

682
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:39,559
to hit it always like how far your best shot

683
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,400
would go. So just know that. Just be smart about it,

684
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,920
don't you know, put your ego aside and say, you

685
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,880
know what, what's the club that's going to get me,

686
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,599
get me to where I need to be and help

687
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,559
me score reasonably on this hole and not put myself

688
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:57,000
in harm's way by just making again a decision that's

689
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:02,319
ego based. Worried about how come you know, worry about score?

690
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,799
What will they think of me? All that stuff that interferes.

691
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,480
It's like nobody needs to know you hit a seven

692
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:09,480
ar and when when people think you should have hit

693
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,079
an eight iron their cyc who cares?

694
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely absolutely. And there's so many products out there

695
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:22,239
now that you know, from Schatscope, Arco's Game Golf, all

696
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,559
these different things that if you are willing to take

697
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:29,360
the time after your round, it's going to tell you

698
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,280
a lot of information about how you did and give

699
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,880
you insights into what you possibly should be working on

700
00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:41,079
and where your errors are. Are you a fan do

701
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:41,800
you advocate that?

702
00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:44,559
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that's great. Any information that can help

703
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:49,199
you make better decisions, I'm in Yeah, yep, Yeah.

704
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: Another line I read recently, Instead of focusing on the

705
00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:53,800
twenty two percent of your game that isn't going right

706
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,119
that day, take the glass half full approach, appreciate the

707
00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:00,800
seventy eight percent of your game that is working for you,

708
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:04,920
and have the awareness to play towards your strengths for

709
00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:07,239
that day because every round is different.

710
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I agree with that, but I do

711
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,679
also think that you need to be aware of where

712
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:22,039
your weaknesses are. And I'll go back to before all

713
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:25,480
these great apps we have now to chart all of

714
00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:27,159
our stats. I used to do it all with pencil

715
00:35:27,199 --> 00:35:29,840
and paper when I was playing college and professional. And

716
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,440
what I would do is I would look at where

717
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,119
I thought were the deficiencies after I took the statistics,

718
00:35:36,159 --> 00:35:37,679
and then I'd go to my coach. At that point,

719
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,719
it was Rick Roads up at San Francisco Golf Club,

720
00:35:40,039 --> 00:35:43,679
So Rick, you know, I'm struggling with this part of

721
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,559
my game, and then we'd focus on that. So I'd

722
00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:49,920
come to my coach prepared with what my weaknesses were,

723
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:56,280
and those were evident based on what the statistics statistics

724
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,480
told me. And for whatever reason, I don't know how

725
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:00,960
this can be. And I'm like, Okay, if I'm going

726
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,039
to play professional golf, if I want to win a

727
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:05,719
professional tournament, if I could average sixty eight for four

728
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,519
days and she's sixty under par, I'm going to be

729
00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:10,440
in the mix. And then I would see basically what

730
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,840
the anatomy of a sixty eight was. And it wasn't

731
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,280
anything crazy, right, it was just being reasonable in all

732
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,639
these different categories. And now we've got it to the

733
00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:23,159
point where it's even you know, more sophisticated, with all

734
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,360
the all the great apps and tools that we have

735
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,239
to be able to measure everything and depending on what

736
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,079
you are, whether you're you know, somebody's just trying to

737
00:36:33,079 --> 00:36:34,960
break a ninety or break eighty, your break one hundred.

738
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,199
There's just reasonable expectations in each part of your game

739
00:36:40,599 --> 00:36:42,880
that you can refer to and then go to your

740
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,880
coach armed with that, like, hey, coach, you know, I

741
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,960
not just what my last round was, but if you

742
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,840
look at my last ten or fifteen rounds, there's a

743
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,920
trend here, you know, there's a trend that you know,

744
00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:56,559
I'm my chips are averaging twelve feet from the hole. Well,

745
00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:59,000
it's probably gonna be a two putt. What if we

746
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:00,840
got that? What if we get that to seven or

747
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,320
eight and all of a sudden some of those become

748
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,599
up and downs, you know. And so if you get

749
00:37:06,639 --> 00:37:10,119
a little bit better in every category, you're going to

750
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:13,559
improve just improving your skill set. It's like what I

751
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:16,320
tell like almost all golfers, but especially juniors, I'm like,

752
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,679
what can you do today that makes you just a

753
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,639
little better than you were yesterday? What kind of decisions

754
00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:23,599
can make what how's your practice going to be a

755
00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:25,400
little bit better today just to make you better than

756
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,440
you were yesterday? And just keep comparing yourself to yourself

757
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,239
and keep making your weaknesses less weak. You know, it's

758
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,599
nice to have strengths. We have to maintain those, but

759
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,480
really come armed to a lesson with an understanding of

760
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:44,079
where you should spend your time. So the you know,

761
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:46,119
if you're taking an hour lesson the coaches and trying

762
00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:48,480
to figure it out for the first twenty minutes, what's

763
00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:50,119
going on. It's like, let's get to work.

764
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:59,639
Speaker 2: So let's get to finding the right coach. What elements

765
00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:04,199
are we looking for in the process of finding a coach?

766
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:05,920
And that doesn't mean like, oh, there's a guy who

767
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,280
teaches nearby here, I'm just going to go to him, right.

768
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:10,840
I'm sure that you have to go shopping. You've got

769
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,760
to do your research, just like you do with any

770
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,920
retail product. This is a service and you want the

771
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,920
best person who's going to serve you in that service.

772
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: I think I think there's a lot of ways to

773
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,159
find out about the coach these days beforehand. Just google

774
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,599
them right, find out you know what they what they do.

775
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,199
You know, there's a lot of social media out there.

776
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,440
I've got Instagram, YouTube, things like that. I mean, coaches

777
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,239
are out there for you to kind of see what

778
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,920
their style is, things like we're doing right now, like

779
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,320
like podcasting, and you hear what kind of philosophy the

780
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,000
coach might have and see if there's a match there.

781
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,840
And then the best way is just go go take

782
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,199
a lesson, and you may not need to ever see

783
00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:57,480
them again, but just just go take a lesson. See

784
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,000
if the communication is what you what you like. I

785
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:06,360
think there's also a knowis on the player to hold

786
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,840
the coach accountable to what they're actually looking to do.

787
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:12,840
I learned early on in my coaching career not to

788
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,880
have expectations for where I wanted my students to go.

789
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,679
I really want to meet them for what they want

790
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,000
to do. I had a student when I was teaching

791
00:39:21,039 --> 00:39:23,920
back back for golf died just in New Jersey. He

792
00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:26,760
just wanted to have a beautiful swing. He was a

793
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:33,639
wonderfully dressed person, hair, perfect cologne. I mean, he was

794
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,360
a model looking guy and he wanted an Adam Scott

795
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,480
model looking swing. And when I met him, he was

796
00:39:40,519 --> 00:39:43,159
a four, and when I left New Jersey two years later,

797
00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:45,159
I think he was an eight. But his golf swing

798
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:46,800
looked beautiful and he was happy as a clam We

799
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,159
never touched his short game. We just made a swing

800
00:39:49,199 --> 00:39:52,599
beautiful now that would not have been my I can't

801
00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:55,000
tell you how many times I told him his name

802
00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:56,960
is Tom. I won't say his last name, is it Tom?

803
00:39:57,079 --> 00:39:59,159
We need to work on your short game. Is you

804
00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:02,199
finished runner up in his club championship? You know before

805
00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:05,519
I met him, and he couldn't sniff it afterwards and

806
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,679
I couldn't. I could not convince him to work on

807
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,800
his short game, putting, chipping, pitching, because he just wanted

808
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,639
a beautiful sweat, and he ended up I met his expectations.

809
00:40:13,639 --> 00:40:16,400
He had a beautiful sweat if I would have. You know,

810
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,400
I don't want to make my students unhappy. But that's

811
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,840
not a typical student. A typical student might be might

812
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,320
might say something different, like you might. I don't know

813
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,719
what your current index is, Fred, but I'm sure you're

814
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,679
a very curious person. You love to learn, and you

815
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,280
probably like, what can I do, Josh to make my

816
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,480
What are you? What is your index? Thees days?

817
00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: Ten?

818
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,199
Speaker 1: Ten? I would love to be a seven year from now.

819
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,920
What What can I do? Right? You know? Closer play closer?

820
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,840
T's well, that's that's part of it too. Hey, I'm

821
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,000
I no longer like playing the tips. I've done that,

822
00:40:52,519 --> 00:40:54,079
I've been there, done that. I go one up from

823
00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:57,920
the tips now. But uh but yeah, so so when

824
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,639
I say that the student, yeah, I would say the

825
00:41:01,679 --> 00:41:04,400
student needs to hold the coach accountable. What I what

826
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,960
I mean by that? And I've talked about this for years.

827
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:14,880
I never will say anything to a student that doesn't

828
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,280
either improve the quality of the contact or the shot.

829
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:25,159
I don't do anything for for for decoration when it

830
00:41:25,199 --> 00:41:28,519
comes to teaching. This one case, what Tom was like,

831
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:31,840
I learned my lesson on that, and if that's the

832
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,480
person who's coming for lesson, it's not a fit. I

833
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,159
want to I want to make my students better, but

834
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,519
I want to meet I want them to get out

835
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:41,840
of it what they want to get out of it.

836
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,760
But I think they're One of the things I asked

837
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,440
my students when they come see me, is do you

838
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,920
want to understand why something is happening or do you

839
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,239
just want me to tell you what to do? Because

840
00:41:55,239 --> 00:42:00,199
I'm always willing to defend my point of view when

841
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,000
I see something. This is why your ball is doing this,

842
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,960
this is how to fix it, and the reason it's doing.

843
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,119
This is because of X, Y or Z, and when

844
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:11,440
we do this, it will it will go away. And

845
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:13,519
trust me on this, but this is this is this

846
00:42:13,559 --> 00:42:15,159
is how it's going to work. And I'm confident in

847
00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:18,480
my abilities to be able to diagnose just about anything

848
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,719
out there. We have great tools. Now, I've got thirty

849
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,519
years of experience. I know how this is going to happen.

850
00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:27,079
Some people say, you know what, thanks for letting me

851
00:42:27,159 --> 00:42:29,039
know that. I just want to get right to it.

852
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,239
I don't want to understand it. My ideal student, if

853
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,199
I had to, if I had to create one, would

854
00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:39,599
be somebody who's super curious, somebody wants to know the why,

855
00:42:40,039 --> 00:42:43,639
somebody who down the road wants to fire me because

856
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,639
I have armed them with all the things they need

857
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:48,599
to know to be able to be their own best coach.

858
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,199
That would be kind of the ideal the ideal student.

859
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,000
And that doesn't mean that student won't stay with me

860
00:42:54,119 --> 00:42:57,519
for years, because we enjoy each other's companies and we

861
00:42:57,559 --> 00:42:59,480
can always get better at different parts of the game.

862
00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:04,199
But base, if I have a student who's been with

863
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,760
me for a long time and they're hitting certain shots

864
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,480
and I'll ask them questions that This is one thing

865
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,199
I learned from Rick Rhads years ago, the Socratic method. Well, Josh,

866
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,599
I'm hitting this, Well, why do you think that's happening?

867
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:18,519
You know, why is your go in this direction? Why

868
00:43:18,599 --> 00:43:21,000
is your ball flight start? Why is the ball starting

869
00:43:21,079 --> 00:43:23,239
this direction? Why is it spitting too much? So ask

870
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,800
a lot of questions because I know they already know

871
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,960
the answers. I just need to get them in touch

872
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,840
with it because I've taught this to them and they

873
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,079
need to be able to when they're on the golf

874
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:37,000
trip with their pals in South Carolina, to be able to,

875
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,079
you know, hit a few shots and go, oh, I'm

876
00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:41,840
back to this thing. I need to I need to

877
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,599
adjust my grip, or I need to adjust the ball position,

878
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,800
or my stance position, or how I'm shifting my weight.

879
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,239
Because I know how to fix this now, because Josh

880
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,960
has armed me with the skills to be able to

881
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,000
do that. And that's when the student goes, hey, I'm

882
00:43:57,199 --> 00:44:01,199
I can fly now, right. I I don't necessarily need

883
00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:05,880
my coach, and almost to the point, like a Bubba

884
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,239
Watson who never had a coach, like Bubba Watson can

885
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,679
fix his ball flight. He knows what to do. He

886
00:44:11,679 --> 00:44:13,920
doesn't need he doesn't necessarily need a coach to tell

887
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,960
him why. I definitely needed a coach to tell me

888
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,760
why I did not have that instruction when I was younger.

889
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,599
My coach was not armed with that information. He was

890
00:44:23,639 --> 00:44:27,880
the most wonderful person mentor supportive person that didn't have

891
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,480
the technical skills. And then I had some amazing mentors

892
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,519
that helped me understand the technical skills. And I want

893
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:38,800
to pass that along to my students so they can

894
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,119
become their own coach and halfway through around when they're struggling,

895
00:44:43,159 --> 00:44:45,679
then they can turn it around, or after the round

896
00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:49,039
they can they can figure it out. And that learning

897
00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:51,800
process just makes you that much stronger of a player,

898
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,079
because you're like, hey, I can go anywhere anytime, and

899
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:55,880
if I'm struggling, I know how to get out of it.

900
00:44:56,559 --> 00:44:59,960
And if you're the if you're the student who always

901
00:45:00,119 --> 00:45:02,119
needs to call the coach because you don't know what

902
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,599
to do, then the coach probably didn't do their job

903
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:09,039
in my opinion. So I have kiddingly say I'm trying

904
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:10,719
to get myself fired here, but I kind of I

905
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,920
kind of am is that I don't want to hold

906
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,800
anything back I want to I want to make sure

907
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,639
you understand and then and then I'm going to arm

908
00:45:18,679 --> 00:45:21,639
you with some skills to be able to fix yourself

909
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:25,559
because golf is always I was explaining this to a

910
00:45:25,559 --> 00:45:28,760
student the other day. Golf is always a matter of

911
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,880
tweaking things. And for those who us, those of us

912
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,000
who are old enough to remember there were dials on

913
00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:36,800
a radio to tune in the station without the static, right,

914
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,559
a lot of kids have no idea what that is.

915
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,320
That's what we're always doing. We're always just tweaking little

916
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,719
things to get that contact that much sweeter, that ballflight,

917
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,440
to just curve that much more. It's always a matter

918
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,880
of tweaking things. And there's no such thing as oh,

919
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,679
I got it, and now I don't have to worry

920
00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:56,920
about it anymore, because we're not machines. We're human beings,

921
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,719
and we change and it's it's a constant. You've got

922
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,639
to love the process of going through the process, and

923
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,400
if you're not, if that's not fun for you, then

924
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,400
you're probably in the wrong sport, because that's what it is.

925
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:12,800
All you have to do is go to a tour

926
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,480
event and follow a tour player through their week, whether

927
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,000
it's going to the fitness trailer when its managing what

928
00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:21,960
they eat how they eat during the round, whether it's

929
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,559
you know, adjusting to the green speeds of that particular week,

930
00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:28,679
or the conditions are, you know, where the ball's not

931
00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:30,519
flying as far because maybe you're a pebble beach and

932
00:46:30,559 --> 00:46:34,199
it's foggy and it's windy and constantly tweaking things, and

933
00:46:34,199 --> 00:46:35,960
maybe the ball position has to go back a little

934
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,360
bit because you need to flight your ball a little

935
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,639
bit lower, and how that affects how the ball is

936
00:46:39,639 --> 00:46:41,480
going to curve, and you're constantly doing this, and then

937
00:46:41,519 --> 00:46:43,679
the next week you're in a different place and all

938
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,639
of a sudden, the greens are different, and the weather's different,

939
00:46:46,639 --> 00:46:49,639
the altitude is different, and you're constantly tweaking and these

940
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:53,400
are outside elements. And then that doesn't even bring the

941
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,079
fact that, oh, you know, you tweaked your back a

942
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:57,119
little bit, you know, walking down the stairs the other day,

943
00:46:57,159 --> 00:46:58,800
and so now your body is not quite feeling it

944
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,679
quite so that little that feel that you had two

945
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,400
weeks ago is not quite there anymore. Now we need

946
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,480
a different feel to produce the same ball flight that

947
00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:09,920
you had before. Right, So there's always that kind of

948
00:47:11,079 --> 00:47:15,039
tweaking and adjusting and monitoring and dialing in what you're

949
00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:17,840
looking to do to be the best golfer you can

950
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,639
be on that particular day, and then you wake up

951
00:47:19,679 --> 00:47:22,480
the next day and you do it again and enjoy

952
00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:24,880
the process of doing that again. Whether you're a fifteen

953
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,440
twenty handicapper or trying to make a living doing this,

954
00:47:28,519 --> 00:47:32,519
it's your human being trying to constantly adjust that. And

955
00:47:33,039 --> 00:47:36,559
part of the coach's job is to help people understand

956
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,000
your ball. Like I was saying, the lie tells a story.

957
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,559
Your ball flight tells a story, right, there's a reason why.

958
00:47:44,599 --> 00:47:47,159
And so one of my close friends, Jeff Ritter, who's

959
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:49,559
a great teacher. You may have spoken to him. I

960
00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:52,039
love when he tells somebody who hit a shot, he goes,

961
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:54,000
that's perfect. What do you mean that was perfect? I

962
00:47:54,039 --> 00:47:55,920
just sliced it forty years And that's the perfect way

963
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,199
to slice the ball forty yards. If you want to

964
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,599
slice it forty yards, that's perfect way to do it.

965
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,119
So there, what you just did is the reason why

966
00:48:04,159 --> 00:48:06,119
that ball flight did what you did. We did what

967
00:48:06,119 --> 00:48:07,679
it did. So now how do you work back from

968
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,000
the ball flight? What did you what did the ball

969
00:48:11,039 --> 00:48:13,559
flight tell you that the club was doing, and what

970
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:15,320
did you do to make the club do something to

971
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,039
make the ball flight? Do that. That's that's golf, and

972
00:48:18,119 --> 00:48:19,400
enjoy the process of doing that.

973
00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 2: Josh, smell bad. My clothes are wrinkled. My my glove

974
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,719
shoes look very used. But I want a beautiful swing.

975
00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: You know what a beautiful swing is? Please the one

976
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,599
that produces the ball flight you want.

977
00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:50,639
Speaker 2: Josh, Yes, I want a beautiful swing.

978
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: You know what I may have told this story. That's ok.

979
00:48:56,159 --> 00:49:01,639
I'm looking for a functional swing. Aunctional swing is the

980
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:06,199
one that produces the shot that you're trying to produce. Beautiful.

981
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,119
You got a beautiful swing and not hit the ball

982
00:49:09,199 --> 00:49:11,000
very well if it doesn't fit you. We've talked about

983
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,400
biomechanical fits and matchups and stuff before in your show,

984
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,880
and you could have a a swing that totally does

985
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,519
not suit you, and it may look pretty because you've

986
00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:22,519
made all the angles look right, and you cannot hit

987
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:25,760
the ball solidly. You can't get your ball flight. It's

988
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,039
like good thing. Nobody told Matt Wolfe that he needed

989
00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:31,679
a beautiful swing, or Leecher Vino he needed a beautiful swing.

990
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,760
Or you know Bruce Letski or you know, I'm dating

991
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,039
myself with some of these references. But you are there,

992
00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:40,639
are you know? You start if you look, if you

993
00:49:40,639 --> 00:49:44,760
look at the old guy, the old school guys, it

994
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,079
wasn't about the swing because they didn't have picture, they

995
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:50,199
didn't have video. Right, you want it back in the

996
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,079
Hogan days, if you wanted a beautiful swe if you

997
00:49:52,119 --> 00:49:53,880
want to look at your swing, you had to film it,

998
00:49:54,119 --> 00:49:55,639
send it to the lab in two weeks later you

999
00:49:55,639 --> 00:49:56,559
could make an adjustment.

1000
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 2: Right, and you can't go slow motion lotion.

1001
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: So now because we have all this, you know, video,

1002
00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:08,159
and we got so many other great tools beyond video,

1003
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:13,639
three D in sports boxes is an incredible tool now

1004
00:50:13,679 --> 00:50:15,559
for instructors. I use it all the time. It's just

1005
00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:20,480
it's fabulous to understand all these different basically three D

1006
00:50:21,039 --> 00:50:24,760
using video that gives you instant feedback on how much

1007
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,239
your your body is turning, rotating, lifting. I mean, just

1008
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,559
like every possible thing you want to know is there.

1009
00:50:33,079 --> 00:50:35,280
But I go back to what I was saying before,

1010
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:40,920
how much of that is relevant to you either hitting

1011
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,960
it more solidly or producing the proper ball flight. That's

1012
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,239
where the coach comes in the coach is the guide

1013
00:50:47,559 --> 00:50:50,599
that helps you understand that information. It's the shirtpa that

1014
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:52,639
keeps you from going down rabbit holes that you shouldn't

1015
00:50:52,639 --> 00:50:54,360
be going down rabbit holes. We were talking about this

1016
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,960
before we came on the air here. One of my

1017
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,119
most important jobs is to keep you on the proper road,

1018
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,000
because think about how hard it is to build new

1019
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,199
motor patterns. And if you're going down a rabbit hole

1020
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,559
of trying to do something that doesn't fit what you

1021
00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:16,559
need to do, you're spending so much time and effort

1022
00:51:16,679 --> 00:51:18,440
going down the wrong road, and now you've got to

1023
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,280
come all the way back and start again and try

1024
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,199
to do something different, and you just put all these

1025
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,000
repetitions into something that doesn't work for you. So part

1026
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:32,119
of the coach's job is to what's the word I'm

1027
00:51:32,119 --> 00:51:36,079
looking for, is to is to make keep you on path,

1028
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:40,440
streamline the process, make it as efficient as possible. So

1029
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:44,119
you're doing you're working extremely intelligently to get to where

1030
00:51:44,119 --> 00:51:47,960
you want to go. And if you're not getting the

1031
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,360
proper information or you're doing something because you saw this

1032
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,559
really cool video on YouTube that I don't know, Ludva

1033
00:51:56,599 --> 00:51:58,159
Goldberg is doing this. So I got to do that

1034
00:51:58,159 --> 00:52:00,559
because man, is it was awesome and I agree this

1035
00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:02,719
swing's awesome, But why does it work for him? And

1036
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,440
does it apply to you? Maybe not? You know, if

1037
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,679
Matt Wolf would have watched Oberg swing and try to

1038
00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:11,920
do that, maybe Matt Wolf wouldn't finish second in the

1039
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,880
US Open to Bryson at wing Foot. You know, it's like,

1040
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:18,320
you need to do what's right, what's right for you,

1041
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,760
and you need oftentimes you need a coach who understands

1042
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,119
that to be able to make sure, Hey, this is

1043
00:52:25,159 --> 00:52:27,719
I feel like I'm the I'm the person who can

1044
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,400
just save you a lot of time or a qualified

1045
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,360
coach as a person who could help you save a

1046
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,760
lot of time not going down the wrong path because

1047
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:37,519
it needs to apply to you and it needs and

1048
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,960
a great litmus test is as far as holding your

1049
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,440
coach accountable. Ask the coach when they ask you to

1050
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,400
do something, be polite, but just ask them is this

1051
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,920
going to make my contact more solid? Or is this

1052
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,559
going to help my ball flight? And if not, why

1053
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:57,920
am I doing it? Because there's no reason to do

1054
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,280
it if it's not doing one of those two things.

1055
00:53:00,519 --> 00:53:02,599
One of my mentors, Jim Hardy, The tagline for his

1056
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:05,760
company is next ball better. The next ball needs to

1057
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,320
be better. If you're doing the things that the coach

1058
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,599
told you to do, that that are gonna help make

1059
00:53:11,639 --> 00:53:14,159
that next ball better. And if you're going down the

1060
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:16,400
wrong road, if you're trying to you know, bow your

1061
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,599
wrist because John rom Bose's wrist and he was the

1062
00:53:18,679 --> 00:53:20,400
number one player in the world, and so was Dustin

1063
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,480
with a Bode wrist. Well, does a Bode risk help

1064
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:26,280
you hit the next ball better? Does it fit your biomechanics?

1065
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,039
Because for some people it's magic and for other people

1066
00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:31,239
it's tragic. So you just got to make sure you

1067
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,599
understand what that is for you. And that's part of

1068
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:36,679
what you need to hold your count, your coach accountable for.

1069
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,480
So it's it's a you can this. There's so much

1070
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,480
information available for us, and it's all good information, but

1071
00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:48,079
the question is is applicable to you? And that's that's

1072
00:53:48,119 --> 00:53:51,039
I think where you need some kind of a helper,

1073
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,679
some kind of a coach to help you understand that.

1074
00:53:55,079 --> 00:53:57,119
If I was if I was learning a different sport,

1075
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,800
I definitely would find a coach that would help me

1076
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,039
understand how can I get to where I want to

1077
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:07,519
go and what's the what's the closest point, you know,

1078
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,679
the distance between those two lines that I can get

1079
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,440
me there the most efficiently. And you know I have

1080
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:15,480
limited amount of time and how do I spend it?

1081
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:19,760
And that's that's how I would go. So when I'm

1082
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,599
taking a lesson, like I tell people, I'm the hardest

1083
00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:25,000
person to take a lesson because I'm going to hold

1084
00:54:25,039 --> 00:54:26,960
the coach accountable because i know the minute they tell

1085
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,599
me one thing to do, I'm like, well, I've already

1086
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:31,360
done the math in my head. If I do that

1087
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:32,960
one thing, I know what's going to happen to my

1088
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,679
impact because I you know, I've been there, done that.

1089
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,000
I've been doing it for the last thirty years, playing

1090
00:54:40,039 --> 00:54:42,119
for the last forty eight. I'm going on half a

1091
00:54:42,119 --> 00:54:44,079
century of golf knowledge in year, and so you tell

1092
00:54:44,119 --> 00:54:47,480
me to do something, I kind of know what's going

1093
00:54:47,559 --> 00:54:49,320
to be coming out on the outcome. It is not

1094
00:54:49,559 --> 00:54:51,280
and I'm going to hold you accountable for that. So

1095
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,280
I'm like, I'm not going to bow my wrist or

1096
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:55,880
I'm not going to cut my wrist, or I'm not

1097
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,239
going to tuck my elbow. I'm gonna you know that

1098
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,239
doesn't whatever, because because I know what that's to do

1099
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,800
to my ball fleight and my quality my contact. So

1100
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,719
that's how I approach every lesson. I help my students

1101
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,519
understand what they need to do to make them the

1102
00:55:10,519 --> 00:55:12,920
best version of themselves and try to make that as

1103
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,000
efficient as possible for you.

1104
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 2: Like sportsbox AI, I do, okay. So for those fans

1105
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,440
who are interested in more information on that. G Haylee

1106
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,880
was featured on this on the podcast back in October

1107
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,800
first of last year, episode nine hundred and sixty seven.

1108
00:55:34,159 --> 00:55:37,760
The impact AI is already having on the revolutionizing golf training,

1109
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:39,760
and it was all about sportsbox AI.

1110
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:44,639
Speaker 1: It's an amazing tool, and it needs to be used correctly,

1111
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,280
and it needs to be filtered by somebody who knows,

1112
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:51,760
who understands the information. So I think it's I think

1113
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,679
it's it's amazing with what you can do now with

1114
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,199
that technology and not have to like strap yourself up

1115
00:55:57,199 --> 00:55:58,920
into the I remember when I first did three D

1116
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,679
and I had all these things, you know, attached to me,

1117
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,719
and I felt like I was at an outer space.

1118
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,719
You know. It's like with all this stuff and they're like, okay,

1119
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,280
go ahead and swing. I'm like are you kidding me?

1120
00:56:07,679 --> 00:56:10,599
And like you're swing, you're you're really inefficiated swing. I would,

1121
00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:12,639
I can't swing with all this stuff off. Now you

1122
00:56:12,679 --> 00:56:15,280
don't have to just you can just do your thing.

1123
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,440
You do it anywhere on the golf course and the range.

1124
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,559
It's it's it's a fantastic tool. GA's company is doing

1125
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:22,760
awesome of that.

1126
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: That's great, that's good for I'm happy for them. And

1127
00:56:26,639 --> 00:56:31,880
how do you feel about using golf simulators for giving instruction?

1128
00:56:36,599 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: Do you? I don't. I teach everything outside. I don't

1129
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,199
have an indoor facility. I'm not saying I'm I'm against.

1130
00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:46,639
If I had the ability to have indoor an outdoor,

1131
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:48,800
I would. I'd love to have that. I just don't

1132
00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:51,760
at the facility where I am, so everything I do

1133
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,039
is is outdoors. I think you have to be careful

1134
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:59,559
if you're only doing indoor lessons, because you're you're hitting

1135
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:04,320
off a perfectly flat lie. It's not it's not necessarily

1136
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,960
it's a it's a good way to kind of work

1137
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:10,519
on some fundamentals, but it doesn't it's not it's not

1138
00:57:10,599 --> 00:57:14,440
real life, but it's range. It's it's the range off

1139
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,159
of a mat and even more control than that, there's

1140
00:57:17,199 --> 00:57:19,800
not even any win there's it's like golf is a

1141
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:24,360
variable game and there's zero variety when you go indoors

1142
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:28,400
with four walls hitting into a into a you know,

1143
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,760
a screen and so yeah, you might have a different whatever,

1144
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,079
you know, different pictures on the screen they get into.

1145
00:57:35,159 --> 00:57:38,360
But so there's some use to it, and and boy

1146
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,639
is it efficient in the sense that like you know,

1147
00:57:40,679 --> 00:57:42,079
if you if you had one of those in your

1148
00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:43,960
house or nearby where you just go practice and you're

1149
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,559
not worry about weather and worry about you know, it's

1150
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,840
there's a ton of advantages to it. But just realize

1151
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,760
you're not really learning golf. You're learning some technique about

1152
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,280
your golf swing, and you're getting some good feedback because

1153
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,519
you get spin rates and path and face and a

1154
00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:04,239
lot of track man type stuff information. But if you

1155
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,159
wonder why you do that and then you go to

1156
00:58:06,159 --> 00:58:09,280
the golf course and you can't produce, it's because you're

1157
00:58:09,559 --> 00:58:14,800
practicing that. You're not practicing golf. You're practicing how to

1158
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,480
swing your practice. So there's a place for it.

1159
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,719
Speaker 2: The decision making has been pulled away from it.

1160
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, some you could say some of the simulation type

1161
00:58:23,559 --> 00:58:26,960
stuff can give you different looks and win conditions, and

1162
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,440
so you have to do some of the thinking. But

1163
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:32,880
it's did you.

1164
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,639
Speaker 2: Get a chance to watch TGL at all?

1165
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:37,719
Speaker 1: I haven't had a chance to really. I think I

1166
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,760
saw it once just for a couple of minutes, so

1167
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,199
I really haven't had a chance to to do it.

1168
00:58:43,079 --> 00:58:46,119
Speaker 2: I personally think that there's a big future in growing

1169
00:58:46,119 --> 00:58:50,840
the game through simulator golf because you know this, this

1170
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:55,000
new generation of golfers are used to things being quicker, shorter.

1171
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:01,559
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about that. That's definitely. You know, I've

1172
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,960
in my career, I've I've kind of had the the

1173
00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:07,519
old school that I grew up with, and now this

1174
00:59:07,679 --> 00:59:10,079
new school that's that's kind of happening, is growing the

1175
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:12,000
game of golf and more people out there, whether it's

1176
00:59:12,119 --> 00:59:15,039
out at top golf, hit balls, you know, into fun,

1177
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:17,840
fun looking targets out there with music and drinks, and

1178
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,000
if that brings more people to the game, great. Simulators

1179
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,840
bring more people to the game. Great. Just to understand

1180
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:28,159
that they're kind of like different sport. Yeah, but that's okay,

1181
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,000
that's fine. Yeah, it's just whatever, as they say, whatever

1182
00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:36,119
whatever makes you, you know, happy, entertained, engaged. It's there's,

1183
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:37,920
you know, to each his own kind of thing, right

1184
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:41,840
if you. I mean, I understand that golf is it

1185
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,400
takes time. It takes you know, you've got to drive

1186
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,840
to course, you you know. But there's there's in this

1187
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,079
day and age that I'm talking as a human being

1188
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:57,039
slash parent, the ability to get away from your technology,

1189
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:04,480
be in a beautiful place, breathe fresh air, get some exercise, socialize,

1190
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:11,039
communicate all those things. There's a lot there that I

1191
01:00:11,079 --> 01:00:16,760
think people need to understand that for your mental happiness,

1192
01:00:17,159 --> 01:00:21,440
your state of mind, your I don't think we were

1193
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,360
necessarily designed to be indoors in front of a screen

1194
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,559
as much as we are now. That's my personal opinion.

1195
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:29,079
Speaker 2: Uh.

1196
01:00:29,559 --> 01:00:30,599
Speaker 1: And it's.

1197
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:34,159
Speaker 2: You know, I'm laughing because I love it. It's like

1198
01:00:34,199 --> 01:00:36,719
the old guys are now going, hey, kids, get back

1199
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:37,440
on my lawn.

1200
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,719
Speaker 1: Get back on my lawn. Yeah, I mean, come back

1201
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,119
on the grass. I literally learned how to play golf.

1202
01:00:44,199 --> 01:00:48,039
I dug a hole in my front yard which was

1203
01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:51,039
not very big, and I put a tennis can in there,

1204
01:00:51,199 --> 01:00:53,400
and I got my whiffle balls and I hooked it

1205
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,000
and sliced it around the avocado tree in our front yard.

1206
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,320
And I could do that for hours. And I was

1207
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,599
Tom Watson, and I was Jack Nicholas, and I was

1208
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,719
you know, I was Calvin Peete and I was I

1209
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:09,360
was just I was truly playing and learning at the

1210
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,920
same time. And I didn't even realize I was learning, right,

1211
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,119
because I was having so much fun just curving this

1212
01:01:15,159 --> 01:01:17,320
wiffle ball and hitting it high and making it spin

1213
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,519
on the crab grass in my front yard. And just

1214
01:01:20,519 --> 01:01:22,440
you know, we had turtles. I would hit it around

1215
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,239
the turtle. I mean, it was true, it was true play.

1216
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,400
I was abusing turtles. I was hooking and and and

1217
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,519
and those those their shells don't don't get hurt by

1218
01:01:33,519 --> 01:01:37,679
a whiffle ball landing on top of it. So so

1219
01:01:38,039 --> 01:01:40,280
I mean, I just like when you when you talk

1220
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,960
to me about a hitting a ball, hitting hitting hitting

1221
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,840
ball into a stream, you know, hitting balls into screens,

1222
01:01:49,199 --> 01:01:52,760
you know, that's that's if it grows a game, great,

1223
01:01:53,719 --> 01:01:57,320
I would my advice would be at least spend some

1224
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,639
time out there with your friends and be a full place,

1225
01:02:01,199 --> 01:02:03,599
spending some time away from your screen. The screen will

1226
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:04,400
be there when you get home.

1227
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, kids, get back on my laune. So tell people

1228
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,880
how to follow you, how to get in touch with you,

1229
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,440
where to watch you got going on?

1230
01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:22,079
Speaker 1: I'm on I'm on Instagram and and YouTube, and you

1231
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:25,800
can take online lessons with me on the skill is

1232
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,400
st app. I have a lot of I have a

1233
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:32,239
video library you can access on the skill stapp. So

1234
01:02:32,239 --> 01:02:34,159
that's where you can find me. If you're not local

1235
01:02:34,199 --> 01:02:36,119
to the San Francisco Bay area, I teach it. I

1236
01:02:36,159 --> 01:02:39,800
teach golf at Stanford. That's where I hang my shingle,

1237
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:45,920
so to speak. And uh but definitely trying to reach

1238
01:02:46,159 --> 01:02:50,239
more people through through online, through the through the skill stap.

1239
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:51,679
So that's where you can find me and a lot

1240
01:02:51,679 --> 01:02:55,519
of my information. You can you know, you can take

1241
01:02:57,119 --> 01:03:01,519
lessons remotely with me through that and so anywhere you

1242
01:03:01,519 --> 01:03:03,159
are in the world, I would love to I would

1243
01:03:03,199 --> 01:03:05,760
love to help you. And uh it because.

1244
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: Where I mean, is it Josh Sander Golf? Is it Xander?

1245
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,159
Speaker 1: Oh? So my website, Yeah, my website is Xander Golf

1246
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,480
C A, N Z A, N D E, R G O,

1247
01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:18,000
l F golf dot com and everything. You can find

1248
01:03:18,039 --> 01:03:20,159
everything there. And then if you just search for me

1249
01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:21,920
on skill so you can find me there. As far

1250
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:25,559
as being able to work with me remotely, and if

1251
01:03:25,559 --> 01:03:28,760
you're in town, come see me at Stanford, Northern California.

1252
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 2: Josh always enjoy it. I just love just dropping in

1253
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:37,480
a quarter and letting you rid. This is it. This

1254
01:03:37,559 --> 01:03:39,599
is the podcast of Grip It and Rip It. Just

1255
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:40,920
let you go.

1256
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:44,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want to congratulate you on doing a fantastic,

1257
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,880
fantastic job and the fact that you're about to turn

1258
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,639
a thousand with your with your episodes is an amazing accomplishment.

1259
01:03:51,719 --> 01:03:53,719
And I always enjoy my time with you. And you're

1260
01:03:53,719 --> 01:03:56,880
a you're a great question asker and uh, and you

1261
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:58,800
make it very easy to be on the other side

1262
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,920
of the of the mic and uh and and uh.

1263
01:04:02,159 --> 01:04:03,840
Someday we got to get out there and play some golf.

1264
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:12,360
Mm hmm