WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:02.799 Meaning a light. 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:06.480 Man like this, man letting butterfly flapping and wing. They've 3 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:08.839 down in a forest. Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, 4 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:17.679 letting five thousand miles away. Man, nobody seen it. Nobody see. 5 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:22.000 You don't need no man black. You follow let and 6 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:23.640 you got bacted like that. 7 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:24.280 That's the point. 8 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:26.239 Man, don't black and name on the panel. 9 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:27.839 Man, Now you don't matter. 10 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:38.159 Man all right, George Bagbee, welcome to Jay Burdenshow how 11 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:38.520 you doing. 12 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:41.039 I'm doing great. It's good to be with you. 13 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:46.240 Yeah, I'm very excited to have you. Uh. This is 14 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:50.119 another episode in my unofficial series of If I talk 15 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:52.719 about the Iran War every day, I will go crazy 16 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:56.359 and so deliberately deciding to talk about something that is 17 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.600 not relevant, at least explicitly to what's happening in the headlines. 18 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:05.280 And so Bagbee, we're here to discuss the twenty sixteen 19 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:12.040 film Hail Caesar, and it's a good absurdist way to 20 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:18.599 get away from the current thing. The Cohen Brothers are 21 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:26.599 my favorite comic writers of the day. Their comedies are 22 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:30.680 some of my oldest favorites. 23 00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:35.040 My wife and I, as a kind of guilty pleasure, 24 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:40.159 we get no end of enjoyment out of The Big Lebowski, 25 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:43.560 which is one of our favorite films, and it's it's 26 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:48.680 just a classic. It's not for everyone, especially those who 27 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.159 are adverse to the language. It's it's very colorful, and 28 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:59.719 it's language notoriously, but it's such an absurd comic masterpiece. 29 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:04.120 And that's something that I really love about the Cohen's. 30 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:13.039 There's such a dynamic, a dynamic force in movie making. 31 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:19.719 They go from masterpieces, just stupendous achievements like No Country 32 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:26.719 for Old Men, and they've also made these really slapstick 33 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:33.039 sorts of comic movies, like Raising Arizona with Nicholas Cage 34 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:40.599 doing one of his Madman routines. They've also made these 35 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:47.360 really distinctive regional films, which is something that I particularly 36 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:52.000 love about them. They've made They made Miller's Crossing, which 37 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:55.479 was one of their earlier movies, one of my favorites. 38 00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.159 It's a really good one. Did you know that one 39 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:03.520 was shot almost entirely in Louisiana, specifically New Orleans? 40 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.560 Huh? But I didn't, But that actually makes quite a 41 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:07.120 lot of sense. 42 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:11.319 You you wouldn't know it by watching the film. I 43 00:03:11.319 --> 00:03:15.240 don't think they ever referenced Louisiana and the film, but 44 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:19.479 it was all shot in Louisiana. I found out that 45 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:26.159 that one of the scenes, the distinctive forest scene in 46 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:32.400 Miller's Crossing where he takes John to Truro. Uh, you know, 47 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:35.280 Gabriel Byrne takes John to Truro out into the forest 48 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:41.199 and and John Taturo's pitifully begging for his life. He 49 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:44.639 knows what what everyone expects to happen. He's supposed to 50 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:49.520 kill him. That was that was shot in a place 51 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:52.919 that I know, and it's all very familiar to me, 52 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:57.000 but outside of the city obviously it's a forest, but 53 00:03:57.319 --> 00:03:58.919 in Louisiana. 54 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.639 Well, and that it's actually funny because I did not 55 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:07.080 know that. Several things about that film. One, it is 56 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:10.800 one of the funniest non comedy films, Like there's not 57 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:13.960 a lot of jokes in it per se, but it's 58 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:17.759 genuinely hilarious. Like there's one moment I always think where, 59 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:21.480 you know, Gabriel Burns is tied to a chair, you know, 60 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:23.560 and you're sort of expecting him to get you know this, 61 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:28.040 you know, beaten, you know, with the swinging light, and 62 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:32.000 he just gets up, grabs the chair, and breaks it 63 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.959 over one of the guys interrogating him, and the reaction 64 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:40.040 the man just looks so genuinely offended he's been hit 65 00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:43.800 with the chair. Very very funny. But additionally, it's funny 66 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:46.759 you mentioned that because I just assumed, because of the 67 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:48.959 subject matter that it was set in Chicago. You know, 68 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:52.199 it seems like a Chicago esque film, and I was 69 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:54.040 thinking about that when they're walking through the woods, I 70 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:57.680 was like, this doesn't look anything like Illinois, right, this 71 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.000 looks like the middle of nowhere in the Deep South. 72 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:02.199 And so that actually makes a good bit of sense. 73 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:06.920 Yeah, they actually talked about that, and they said New 74 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:13.959 Orleans is this unchanged like nineteenth century relic and they 75 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.720 didn't have to dress up the streets where they were shooting. 76 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.319 They actually interviewed about that and said, yeah, we didn't 77 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:26.480 have to replace the windows or the shutters or anything 78 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:32.800 because they're all original. No one has renovated these old buildings, 79 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:34.600 and so it looks just like it did at the 80 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.279 turn of the century, which is one of the reasons 81 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:43.360 why I adore New Orleans. It's this untouched old city. 82 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.879 In a way, it's simultaneously New Orleans best selling point 83 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:52.600 and its downfall that they haven't invested in their own 84 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:56.959 city in such obvious ways, but it's also the charm 85 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.360 of the place. But they've made, as I said, all 86 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.800 these really interesting regional films, and I think this is 87 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:07.959 the best testimony in spite of the Cohen's being very 88 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:13.839 famously amish, uh, the the regional work that they've done 89 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:18.800 with with Fargo, with Oh Brother, where Art Thou? It 90 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:22.720 comes from a place of love and affection. Even the 91 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:26.879 Big Lebowski as as like a set piece for Southern California, 92 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:34.279 Southern California hippie characters, deadbeats, stuff like that. It comes 93 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.839 from a place of real affection. And the easiest way 94 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:39.920 to tell that is do you come out of Oh 95 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:43.600 Brother or Art Thou hating Mississippi or do you come 96 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:46.480 out of Oh Brother or Art Thou thinking, Wow, I 97 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.680 really like Mississippi. Like there's there are a lot of 98 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:56.360 winsome points and beauty and and curiosity about these these funny, 99 00:06:56.439 --> 00:07:02.199 you know, country white people. And I think that that's 100 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:07.160 the best tell about the Cohens, that they love their 101 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:13.160 subject matter. And they've also they also produced a personal 102 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:16.920 favorite of mine, which is a serious man. Have you 103 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:18.920 seen that one. 104 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:20.319 No, I haven't, but I need to. 105 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:24.720 Oh, that is a really good one. It's it's set 106 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:31.279 in some Jewish community in Minnesota or something, I guess 107 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:35.040 Bob Dylan's diaspora, way up there in the distant North. 108 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:42.600 And it introduced to me the term goy, which is 109 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:48.000 used very frequently in that film. That film is a 110 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.399 a black comedy, and it's kind of a retelling of 111 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:55.000 the story of Job, a man who faces like every 112 00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:00.160 possible personal disaster and is meditating on the mystery of 113 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:05.319 his situation. And it's it's extremely good just in its 114 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:10.839 own right. But I really like that one. So about 115 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:16.720 the Cohen's they they have a great affection for Americana, 116 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:24.439 for American regions, for the gentile majority of the United States. 117 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:30.560 They really seem to like these people, and that's really 118 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:36.320 my brief for them. The fact that they are famously 119 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:41.919 Amish is an interesting factor in the film that we 120 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:46.399 have for discussion today. It's the twenty sixteen film Hail Caesar, 121 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:57.559 and the image of Christ haunts this film in a 122 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:04.000 really surprising way, especially because it comes from non Christian writers. 123 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:10.879 The very first image that you see when the title 124 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:16.440 fades is a crucifix in a Catholic church and the 125 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:21.440 very first scene is the protagonist, who is a Hollywood fixer, 126 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:25.879 a real historical character by the way, who worked for 127 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:31.840 Big Studios in la Eddie Mannix, who's kind of fictionalized 128 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:34.240 for this. He's kind of a legend in Hollywood, as 129 00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:38.759 I understand it, portrayed by Josh Brolin, and he is. 130 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:42.279 He does a wonderful job in this role, you know, 131 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:48.159 the stoic and strong Josh Brolin. He's sitting in a 132 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:53.799 confessional and he's a very scrupulous Catholic. He's going to 133 00:09:54.039 --> 00:10:01.399 confession with spans of hours between his confessions. He's, uh, 134 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:06.720 he's obviously a man that takes his religious ritual very seriously. 135 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:07.399 Uh. 136 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:11.639 The priest in the confessional is is telling him, oh, 137 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:14.480 my son, you're you're doing this too much. You're not 138 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:18.600 this bad, you know. And he goes to the confessional 139 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.240 to say, you know, I lied to my wife. I 140 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.799 snuck a cigarette. I told her I was quitting, and 141 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.600 and he he breaks down and he says, I'm trying. 142 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:32.960 I'm trying, and then he leaves the confessional. And he's 143 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:39.840 this completely stoical, driven, tough guy of the the force 144 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:44.120 of order and justice in the film. 145 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:46.799 Well, and I think that that opening is is really 146 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:50.039 dramatic on it to sort of set up that that 147 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:53.159 sort of diet. Because he leaves, it's this sort of 148 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:57.759 you know, gloomy, rainy night and he walks into this 149 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:02.320 you know, l a Bungalow kicks the door open, and 150 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.600 you know, one of the the the studio's starlets is 151 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:08.720 taking is it kind of a racy photo shoot with this? 152 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:12.320 Is it Steep Buchmy the photographer or some other kind 153 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:16.919 of like similarly scummy looking actor. And he walks up, 154 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.919 you know, pulls out the negatives, tells the guys to leave, 155 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:23.919 smacks her in a moment that's very kind of like 156 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.600 silver age Hollywood. Right, you know, you can almost imagine 157 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:28.960 Jimmy Stewart, right, you know, holding her close and kind 158 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.440 of slapping her across the face. And then when the 159 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:34.519 police come in, he's given her a fake story. He 160 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.639 hands a bribe to the policeman and they leave, right, 161 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.720 you know, kind of contrasting that, you know, how he 162 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.840 is at work. It is this kind of laying down 163 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:47.720 the law and then you know this very tender family 164 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:49.279 man right in the confessional booth. 165 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:55.039 Yeah, it's this great contrast, and and this is a 166 00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:58.399 contrast that we see through the rest of the picture 167 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:07.559 and the the big questions in the film are about 168 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:16.639 dream and reality, about fantasy and truth, about what is 169 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:21.960 real and what we believe in, what we believe is real, 170 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:27.480 and this is the This is one of the major 171 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:32.600 elements that we encounter through the entire film, and we're 172 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:37.639 drawn back to that distinction repeatedly in the dialogue. It's 173 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.960 it's a really fast paced film. There there are lots 174 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.759 of different characters and a bunch of different little subplots, 175 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:51.200 of many of which are just comic gold. But it's 176 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:56.200 always turning back to that what what do we understand 177 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:00.240 to be, what is going on? What is real is 178 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:05.679 what are we projecting about ourselves? What do we believe 179 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:12.080 about the circumstances. So faith turns out to be one 180 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:17.200 of the key themes of the film. And as I said, 181 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:24.399 the character of Jesus Christ literally portrayed in the film 182 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:28.600 in the context of the movie within the movie. So 183 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:34.000 Eddie Mannix is managing the production of this big tent 184 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:39.679 pole production for the studio. It's a film called Haile Caesar, 185 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:45.639 and this is the source of most of the drama 186 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.320 in this picture, also called Haile Caesar. But like the 187 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:55.240 movie within the movie, this is obviously a satire of 188 00:13:55.840 --> 00:14:01.679 ben Her and some other nineteen fifties epic biblical films 189 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.879 like The Robe and Cuovadis and things like that. 190 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.480 Well, it hails. It's called the other one, right, It's 191 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:13.639 like the Is it the Tablets of Noah or tap, sorry, 192 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.600 the Tablets of Moses? Is that what I'm thinking of? Oh? 193 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:17.559 The Ten Commandments? 194 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:19.279 Maybe? Yes, yes, that's what. 195 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:25.080 Yeah, Charlton Heston, is that a that must be cecil 196 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.039 d de mill or something, one of one of those 197 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.919 great old epics. I've uh, I've got these things on 198 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:36.919 on the list. I just uh, I just uh played 199 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.720 Ben Her for my children recently because I remember watching 200 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:44.000 it at about their age and it having a major 201 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:45.799 impact on me. So it's kind of fresh on my 202 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:52.200 mind right now. But we we see with the production 203 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.799 of this film that the set or the setting for 204 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:58.600 this movie is the fifties. It's like the Golden age 205 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:03.039 of Hollywood and some of the things that we see 206 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:10.399 in the context. It's a Christian country and the Hollywood 207 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:16.600 studios are wanting to present an image of themselves and 208 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:22.279 of their stars, who are certainly not like traditional moral 209 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:26.600 kinds of people. They want to present an image of 210 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:31.240 moral norms, they want to present an image of spiritual norms. 211 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:36.399 And of course there's a cynical reading of this film 212 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:41.679 that it's it's meant to discredit the society in that 213 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:48.039 it's portraying right, that it's these dissolute Hollywood people who 214 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:52.679 are projecting a sense of normalcy on the screen when 215 00:15:52.679 --> 00:16:02.200 the reality is moral degradation in Hollywood. Nix Is is 216 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:08.799 constantly encountering that paradox. So he has he has gossip columnists, 217 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.519 columnists coming up to him, uh constantly, and they're saying, oh, 218 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:16.600 I know about this scandal. I'm going to publicize it tomorrow, 219 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.559 And he says, no, No, the actor is a good 220 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:25.360 family man. Everyone knows that. And and this is a 221 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:30.080 and this is a really interesting element here. But I 222 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:35.120 think that the Cohens really have a general, uh a 223 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:42.080 genuine affection for the the mainstream that they're presenting here. 224 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:44.440 I don't think they're they're trying to take them down 225 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:48.320 a peg. They're they're attacking the corruption in Hollywood. They're 226 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:55.480 lampooning it. In the film, especially the writers, which we're 227 00:16:55.519 --> 00:17:00.080 going to get to, but we see the Hollywood is 228 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:06.400 in the business of making dreams, of projecting images on 229 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:12.759 the side of Plato's cave, and Eddie Mannix is dealing 230 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:18.880 with the real problems at the base of this projection apparatus. 231 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:24.000 So these themes of what is true, what is fantasy? 232 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:29.680 What do we believe? And the whole time Jesus Christ 233 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:39.079 is lurking in the background. Jesus Christ very clearly services 234 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:46.119 in several important discussions in the film as the key 235 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:52.960 question to all of this is Jesus Christ significant? Is 236 00:17:53.039 --> 00:18:00.880 he real? Does he demand faith of us or not? 237 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:09.640 Even the question is Jesus Christ God? Is a serious 238 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:17.160 question that's presented in this satirical context. 239 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.799 Well, and at that point, yes, if I can just 240 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.359 break in if if it's not the immediate next scene 241 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:28.839 to the one I just described, it's it's very shortly 242 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.640 after that is the which is of course played for laughs, 243 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.200 but it's you know, Mannix's meeting with you know, the 244 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:41.920 Protestant pastor, the Orthodox bishop and then a Catholic priest 245 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:46.599 in a rabbi, and of course they're there to discuss 246 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:52.920 you know, the presence of Christ in this film. And 247 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:55.759 there are several things because in a cheaper movie, of course, 248 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.119 I mean it is comedic, right, it is played for laughs. 249 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.079 You know that all four of these religious figures are 250 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.880 offering me. You know that this man effectively uh, you know, 251 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:10.680 your kind of scraps of you know, Christology, right, and 252 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.519 he's deeply confused. But at the same time we see 253 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:18.400 that same sort of love for America. That all four 254 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:23.720 of these men they're not caricatures, you know, they're positive characters, 255 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.240 and particularly coming from the Cohen's it's interesting that the 256 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:32.440 uh if anyone comes out of that interaction looking badly, right, 257 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:36.759 it's the kind of very nebbish uh nebbish rabbi And 258 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.359 you know that's not the focus or the goal of 259 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:42.519 this film. But again, right, that's that's where from almost 260 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:46.119 the very beginning you see the presence of Christ in 261 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:47.160 Hail Caesar. 262 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:54.440 And that that scene is my personal favorite in the film. 263 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:59.319 It's also the most daring thing I think Hollywood has 264 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:04.960 put on this in a very long time. It's a 265 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:10.039 comic scene. Anyone watching that scene is going to find 266 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:16.079 it hilarious, no matter what they believe. I think, I 267 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:21.480 think it's naturally hysterical. But will come around to that 268 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.200 here in just a minute. I do have some notes 269 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.400 on it, but but that that scene you mentioned is 270 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:33.240 absolutely brilliant. So one of the themes I told you 271 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:38.759 faith is the key word in the film. It appears 272 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.039 in the climax of the film at the very end, 273 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:47.000 and it's uh, it's the forgotten line that an actor 274 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:50.839 is delivering a speech in front of the crucified Christ 275 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:56.799 in the climax of the movie within the movie, and 276 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:02.079 he forgets the pinnacle of his each and the word 277 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:10.480 he forgets is faith. And this is intentional. Obviously, they're 278 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:17.000 trying to emphasize the point the one thing that they lack, 279 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:21.079 as the actor almost gets to say when he forgets 280 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:26.000 the last word, if we could only have this one 281 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:31.400 final thing, and that is faith, then we could see 282 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.759 what is true. And so we see it all come 283 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:40.119 together there at the end. But we see conflicts of 284 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:44.240 faith in the film in a big way, and that's 285 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:49.680 with the communist subversives in Hollywood, and so they present 286 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.960 a different kind of faith. This is the faith in 287 00:21:54.359 --> 00:22:01.880 ideological materialism and Marxism and their their faith and what 288 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:07.440 it leads them to is also played for laughs. Their 289 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:15.799 their ham fisted uh sort of attempts to to blackmail 290 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:20.839 Hollywood and UH to fund the Soviet Union, which is 291 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:24.720 what their their ultimate goal is. It comes to nothing, 292 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.480 uh in the end, and it's all and it's all 293 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:32.400 very absurd, but that is another element. So we see 294 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:38.160 the Cohen's they're they're framing the the two faiths presented 295 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:43.200 in the film. You have traditional Christianity, you know, faith 296 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:46.960 in the doctrine of Christ, and then you have an 297 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:54.200 innovative new ideology, which is Communism, which they they don't 298 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:57.279 hold back on for their disdain. 299 00:22:58.039 --> 00:22:58.160 Uh. 300 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.880 They they think that these people maybe don't even deserve 301 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:07.480 to be taken seriously. There's such ridiculous characters. They don't 302 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:12.079 portray the clergy this way at all. The clergy are 303 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.839 are taking these things more seriously. They're very confused, and 304 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:21.400 the scene with the clergy is absurdist and it's meant 305 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.720 to create laughs, but they're obviously talking about serious things. 306 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:31.839 So we see this bifurcation. You have destructive faith of 307 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:37.880 faith that is finally motivated by vengeance. In the case 308 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:43.319 of the Communists. The communists pretend to portray themselves or 309 00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:51.240 they want to portray themselves as these believers in materialist dogma. 310 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:58.960 They are actually motivated by very low, vengeful pecuniary interests 311 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:04.599 and this well and from really obviously with them well. 312 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:06.599 And I think that that's another part of this that 313 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:10.759 I found particularly funny is obviously the sort of drama 314 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.680 of this. You know, the inciting incident is that the 315 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.559 main actor in Hail Caesar has been captured and held 316 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:23.160 for ransom by these communist writers, and some of the 317 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:29.279 best comedy in the film is him talking to these 318 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:37.400 Marxist writers and sort of they are mutually convincing themselves 319 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:40.440 that he is a Marxist. But the funny thing is 320 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.759 this character played by Clooney is such an abject narcissist 321 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:49.559 that he is. He is recreating everything in his own life, right, 322 00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.319 so it is all, you know, his sort of like 323 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:58.720 background Hollywood, you know, relationships explained through Marxist theory. You know, 324 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:00.880 that's the only way he can under standard. You know, 325 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.880 he has no way to conceptualize really outside of like 326 00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:09.559 his incredibly petty foibles. It's very, very funny, and to 327 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:14.119 that point, there's there's a really hilarious moment where you 328 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:16.960 know that they've sort of told him that they're kidnapped, 329 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:19.799 that he has been kidnapped, which happens after this kind 330 00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:23.759 of absurd uh. It kind of like Marxist debate over 331 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:27.279 finger sandwiches, where you know, they're sitting across the room 332 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:32.480 and he's he basically says, he's like, well, what happens 333 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:36.720 if I just tell everyone who you are? And it 334 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:39.920 becomes very clear that these these Marxists have not even 335 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:44.279 considered this. This is the most poorly conceived plan. And 336 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:48.160 so to your point, right, obviously, you know, there is 337 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.079 at least some level of sympathy for these men because 338 00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:55.160 we see that they are from a certain perspective, they're 339 00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:00.200 sort of being ripped off, but they're so so sort 340 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:05.359 of like so sort of incompetent and bumbling and as 341 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:11.000 you said, greedy that they come off really as say, 342 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.000 villains isn't quite the right term, because there is, you know, 343 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:16.799 a more villainous character who sort of serves as the ringleader. 344 00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:22.039 But they are they're painted much much more harshly than 345 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.720 the clergy or you know, the normal Americans. You know, 346 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:28.240 as we see one of the other kind of rising stars, 347 00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:32.440 you know, the character of of you know, Hobby Doyle, 348 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:36.319 who is this sort of like you know, small town 349 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:40.359 actual cowboy who's become you know, a lead in westerns 350 00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:42.960 and in a cheaper movie, you know, he would be 351 00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:47.160 the bumbling rube, the idiot, you know, the redneck. But 352 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.279 he's played very sympathetically, right. He is a character that 353 00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:54.720 you are supposed to feel for and the kind of 354 00:26:55.079 --> 00:27:01.200 you know, sinister homosexual Hollywood mafia is really the villain 355 00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:04.000 of this movie, which, to your point, is a very 356 00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.160 brave thing for Hollywood to say in twenty sixteen. 357 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:15.200 Absolutely, and that again, it just goes back to my point. 358 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:21.319 I genuinely believe the Cohens like Toby Doyle. They like 359 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:28.759 the old stock American cowboy character, the very simple guy 360 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:33.319 who isn't very good talking on screen, and yet he's 361 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.680 a movie star. He's he's one of the more compelling 362 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:43.359 characters in the film. So about the about the communist 363 00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:47.680 meeting with George Clooney's character. George Clooney is the lead 364 00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:51.880 in this swordin Sandals epic Hail Caesar. 365 00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:54.400 Again. 366 00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:59.920 The the film within the film is subtitled A Tale 367 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.839 of the Christ, which is kind of an illusion to 368 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.680 Ben her That was the subtitle for ben Her as well, 369 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.759 and there are lots of different in jokes that are 370 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:18.039 related to ben Her, such as the tactic of never 371 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:24.400 showing the face of the actor portraying Jesus Christ or 372 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:25.400 in Georgia. 373 00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:30.880 Kind of well. And the one quote we get from 374 00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:34.839 you know, the the Orthodox Clergy, it's when he says, 375 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:37.960 I liked it, but I thought jumping from one chariot 376 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.319 to the other seemed a bit fake, which you know, 377 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:43.440 of course, is both a reference and kind of a 378 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.720 comedic moment. But sorry, I've interrupted you for probably a 379 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:46.720 tenth time, George. 380 00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:53.960 Yes, Indeed, the the meeting with the clergy, I'm gonna 381 00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:58.480 I'm gonna compare these two meetings, the meeting with Mannix 382 00:28:58.599 --> 00:29:02.799 in the Christian Clergy and the meeting with Clooney's character 383 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.640 which his name is Whitlock with the Communists. There are 384 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:13.240 certain parallels between these two meetings. When Mannix meets with 385 00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:18.880 the clergy, it's very interesting that the Protestant pastor and 386 00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:25.640 the Catholic priest are both going towards the theology. They're 387 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:29.039 trying to argue about the details of the theology, and 388 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:31.559 the rabbi gets involved with that and he says well, 389 00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:36.000 this is all nonsense. The Trinity is nonsense. Christ was 390 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:41.680 not God. He says that, which is a really incredible 391 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:47.720 thing to portray on screen just by itself, was a 392 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.720 very courageous thing to do. To put that on screen. 393 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.160 And of course it's played for laps, which kind of 394 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:57.240 diffuses the tension, which I think is necessary in order 395 00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.839 to present such a thing, but it's also so very valuable. 396 00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:08.400 The Orthodox bishop who is in this scene is obviously 397 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:13.920 my favorite. That's my representation here. The Orthodox bishop, I think, 398 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.960 is the one that takes it as seriously as it 399 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:27.240 needs to be taken. He is not arguing theological points 400 00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:32.240 it Curiously, Eddie Mannix, after interacting with the Catholic priest, 401 00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:35.720