WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:07.400 Thank you for listening to Depictions Media Radio. 2 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.519 Welcome to Policy and Rights, the. 3 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:56.719 Show about welcoming policy and human rights. All right, welcome 4 00:00:56.719 --> 00:00:59.000 back to Policy and right here in Depictions of Media Radio, 5 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:03.479 I'm your host, Michael Clogs. Today we're gonna totally focus 6 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.640 on British Columbia and we're actually going to have a 7 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:10.760 friend of mine come on the show. And she is 8 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:17.879 a teacher in this Surrey school district. And let me 9 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:21.239 say this much. One of the reasons why she is 10 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:30.519 my friend is not simply because I like her as 11 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:33.560 a person, but I like what she does for the community. Also, 12 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:39.079 she puts herself out there in in ways as a 13 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:45.599 teacher and what she teaches in her classroom that is 14 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:52.680 waking up minds. Some things that have have have happened 15 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:58.519 in in uh, there have been some recent events that 16 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:02.159 may be a little stirping for a teacher to see 17 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:07.879 happen to them, But it would seem that the community 18 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:13.000 is standing behind her. Because again, when someone is going 19 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:18.080 to open up my child's mind, I want I want, 20 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:22.120 I want to, I want to to warmly invite that 21 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:28.159 person to do so, and especially if they're doing so 22 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:34.120 in very positive ways. It isn't just that she gets 23 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:37.360 them to understand a corporate agenda. She gets them to 24 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:41.840 analyze a corporate agenda and decide for themselves if that 25 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:49.240 agenda is what they believe in. Now, it's kind of 26 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:52.159 interesting that we're bringing about the idea of corporate agenda 27 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:57.159 because there has been a corporate agenda, a government agenda 28 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:02.840 that has been introduced into the school system, and it's 29 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:09.280 not necessarily bad, it's not necessarily good. Myself personally, I 30 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:17.479 sit on a fence with it, and should personal identity 31 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:21.719 be taught in school? And what that's what it all 32 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:27.479 amounts to with what they are calling SOG. It isn't 33 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:34.960 about LGBTQ rights. It isn't trying to groom children into 34 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:41.960 becoming something that they may or may not be. It 35 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:49.639 is about teaching children in the classroom what their personal 36 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:56.680 identity should be. Not necessarily a bad thing, but depending 37 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:02.319 on how it is represented, could be harmful because you 38 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:06.560 could actually push a child off in the wrong direction. 39 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:11.560 But more than that, what we need to be able 40 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:15.520 to do is the government has on one agenda with this, 41 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:19.600 and I'm sure the corporations have an agenda with it, 42 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:23.240 because it doesn't evolve them being able to sell more 43 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:33.000 and more medications or whatever to these children, so that 44 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:40.160 so that, of course they make more money. But and 45 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:43.199 whenever the corporations make more money, of course the governments 46 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.920 are always all for that, because hey, that's how government 47 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:53.759 in our negative woods works. And they get funding from 48 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:57.800 the corporations to run their campaigns and in turn they 49 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.639 put things in place that help the corporations make or money. 50 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:07.519 But it's Soji is more than that. Sogi isn't about 51 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:15.680 grooming children to be something they're not. Soji is the 52 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:30.120 antigi Sogi movement is isn't just about stopping the or 53 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:34.120 curving the the the agenda that that may be in place. 54 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:41.959 It's way more than that. Okay, If Soji was simply 55 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.639 just about teaching kids to think clearly about who they 56 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:49.720 are and who they want to be, we might not 57 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.519 be seeing the level of protesting that that there is. 58 00:05:53.480 --> 00:06:00.079 And allowing a childhood is at a certain level to 59 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.480 explore the ideas of what it could be like to 60 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:07.519 be a cat, a dog, a monkey, or whatever opens 61 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:14.120 the imagination, and personally I warmly invite that anything that 62 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:17.800 opens up an imagination and allows a mind to think 63 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:27.519 freely is a good thing. But here's here's what it 64 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:31.319 has actually gone wrong. It isn't so g itself. It 65 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:36.600 is the politicization and the polarization that has occurred over 66 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:43.439 this particular school policy. That's where we were running into problems. 67 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:46.879 That's where the protests are coming out because it is 68 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:52.680 completely politicized. It is politicized to the point that we 69 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:55.920 have and you're going to hear this and in today's show, 70 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:59.319 and I think it's disturbing when we hear a m 71 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:03.040 l A candidates say that books should be banned in 72 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:10.720 the schools. Remember he is a member of the legislative 73 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:17.759 party that would form the laws for British Columbia. Do 74 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:21.079 we want someone like that in office? When we start 75 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:29.319 banning books, we start burning knowledge. Books were freely written 76 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.160 so that the knowledge could be shared, It showed, it 77 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:42.480 could be discussed, so that ideas could be moved forward. 78 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:51.439 So we have that end of things that they talk 79 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:56.439 about planning themselves in front of the school, disrupting classes 80 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:02.279 so that they can get their point across that and 81 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:07.519 they call it saving the children. On the other hand, 82 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:15.160 that while we're in a currently in a period of 83 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:24.839 election in British Columbia, that this whole agenda is is 84 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:32.279 not being talked about in healthy ways that they're pushing 85 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:37.799 forward other agendas that are they seemingly more important while 86 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:42.200 they're put kind of pushing this one aside in the 87 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:47.519 political debates. One it is an extremely hot hot potato, 88 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:50.679 shall we say, is like, if you have children, you 89 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:55.039 will do anything, and I do mean absolutely anything to 90 00:08:55.159 --> 00:09:10.600 protect your children. Okay, So the whole topic is being politicized. 91 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:16.360 The whole topic of LGBTQ rights is being politicized, and 92 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:20.279 it doesn't have to be politicized the way it's being 93 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:24.600 talked about. It's being talked about with agendas instead of 94 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:32.360 focusing on the one simple thing. Let's stop the bullying 95 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:36.159 and allow people to be who they want to be. 96 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:42.159 Let's end the corporate agendas that would shame people for 97 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:48.759 being different, and let's celebrate the diversity that we have 98 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:53.559 within our communities. Let's stop trying to do things like 99 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:57.759 ban books and limit knowledge and open knowledge so that 100 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:04.919 it is freely given to our children in a warm 101 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:11.039 and welcoming environment, so that our children know that they 102 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:19.440 can think for themselves. Okay, so why don't we push 103 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:23.879 forward and we're going to listen to my friend as 104 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:31.799 I interview her talking about her views and why she 105 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:37.240 wants to push SOG forward in the school systems so 106 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.919 that it does things like means bullying, so that it 107 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:46.600 causes policies, so that teachers have concrete policies about who 108 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:56.879 is bullying in, what religious creeds are welcome, what political 109 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:04.799 thoughts and agendas are welcome in the schools, what things 110 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:08.240 are happening in the community can be talked about in 111 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:16.840 a safe way. That's what teaching is all about. And 112 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:22.080 I'm glad to have a good friend and teacher join 113 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:28.120 me in a conversation about making a safe teaching environment. 114 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:35.000 All right, Okay, so welcome to the show, Annie. And 115 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:40.240 today that there is a queer march happening, Is that correct. 116 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:41.399 It? 117 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:45.519 Well, it's actually an anti Soji protest. And then there's 118 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:47.919 a counter protest happening in Vancouver. 119 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:53.639 Counter progress happening in Vancouver. So explain They explained to 120 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:56.600 me a little bit why you're. 121 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.000 A year ago, on September twentieth, there was a national 122 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:06.600 Day of protest by people who were against the inclusion of. 123 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:09.960 All kinds of. 124 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:15.159 Things related to LGBTQ plus representation in schools as well 125 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.399 as other forms, so you might hear words. 126 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:17.960 Like wokeness and. 127 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:21.799 Kind of when you take on topics that are more 128 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:22.919 political in nature. 129 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:27.080 So there was a large protest in SURREYBC. 130 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:32.759 What occurred was that unlike other communities where the protesters 131 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:36.360 were few and the counter protesters were many, in Surrey 132 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.000 was the opposite. We had around I want to say, 133 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:42.600 thirty five hundred people show up to the Minister of 134 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:48.440 Education's offices, which is where the Surrey Teachers Association building is. 135 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:49.799 We own the building. 136 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:56.080 And so what occurred was you had people suggesting that 137 00:12:56.360 --> 00:13:02.840 kids are being mutilated in schools. That's SOGI was hurting kids, 138 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:06.320 that and any number right a very There was some 139 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:12.200 violence where some teachers were injured. So it was there's 140 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:17.360 this ongoing theme that that education needs to change and 141 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:23.279 that different representation of individuals of history don't necessarily need 142 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:26.360 to be included in schools. Where I stand is really 143 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:32.159 at the opposite of that. So most teachers we believe 144 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:37.039 that SOGI really began because we saw the mental health 145 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:42.279 of our students interiorating. We continue to see huge amounts 146 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:47.000 of bullying and shaming towards all kinds of kids to 147 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.879 include those students that were part of the LGBTQ I 148 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:51.840 plus community. 149 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:53.879 And so over a. 150 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:57.480 Number of years there was a development of, you know, 151 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:01.120 just ways that schools could be that were more open, 152 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:02.840 diverse and respectful spaces. 153 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:04.480 So I'm on that side. 154 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:07.679 So but what I mean is that today the counter 155 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:12.559 protest in Vancouver is by people trying to protect that 156 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:17.000 the idea of an inclusive school where to l's LGBTQ 157 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:22.720 communities can kind of exist freely and and our career. Sorry, 158 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.200 SOJI is not a curriculum, but like that we make 159 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:29.919 sure that our policies respect all children. 160 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:30.960 I hope that makes sense. 161 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.000 That does make sense because as as a teacher, wouldn't 162 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:38.440 you agree that we should be allowing our children to 163 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:44.840 be who they want to be without any sort of stigmas, stereotypes, or. 164 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:50.080 Or or negativity right one percent? 165 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:53.159 And I think maybe that's where some people are confused. 166 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:57.559 Where there are parents who do have concerns, is that 167 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.279 perhaps they feel that in the way they live their 168 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:05.399 lives that perhaps that's not represented fully in schools, Which 169 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.120 is interesting because I think with ongoing conversation, you know, 170 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:12.720 things can get better, you know, I teach. I teach 171 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:16.120 in an area where we have all these amazing newcomers 172 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.200 who have different traditions, and we've just folded that into 173 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.720 our school. Right, we welcome it. Right, it's open, we 174 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.559 have different celebrations. You know, you don't have to cut 175 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.759 it out. I think one distinction I have to make 176 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:33.080 is that I completely agree with you. And so these 177 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:37.159 protests that are happening what we've noticed over the last 178 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:43.000 several years really it's a continuation of policies in place 179 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:47.200 in the nineties and before, where you know, they banned 180 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:49.759 certain books, right. I mean, we had a case that 181 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:53.000 went to the Supreme Court with a kindergarten teacher, James Chamberlain, 182 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:56.399 that took that on and we won those cases every 183 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:57.080 single time. 184 00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:59.399 So it's become very vitriolic. 185 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:04.279 It's become to the point where teachers, including myself and 186 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:08.960 and many others are being defamed, are being slandered, are 187 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:10.120 being libeled. 188 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.279 Against, and and it's it's. 189 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:18.240 Gone way past the idea of parents and students, you know, 190 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.399 feeling respected and heard in their buildings. Right, it's become 191 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:27.679 a very negative atmosphere that got really tends to want 192 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.519 to take away spaces rather than make them bigger. 193 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:35.919 Yeah, well, okay, you actually work in a public school 194 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:41.159 which is actually by by the government. Yes, isn't there 195 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:44.639 a point that maybe the government should take a step 196 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:49.279 back from our personal lives and and be a little 197 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:53.840 bit less involved in in uh in our personal lives, 198 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:58.039 and a little less involved in in the personal lives 199 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.279 of of of our children, so that our children are 200 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:02.360 free to be who they want to. 201 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:07.400 Be and and to be honest with you, I think 202 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:12.000 that is what our education system is trying to do. 203 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:18.359 That As a teacher in a secular public school, I 204 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:23.519 am not going to dictate what culture, what tradition, what faith, 205 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.119 and and what expressions you know, to to within you know, 206 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.319 the Charter rights right within reasonable limits. 207 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:30.839 Uh. 208 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:32.680 You know that that's in the first section of our 209 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:37.400 charter that that is the goal. And so any students. 210 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:40.200 You know, if a student wants to paint their nails, 211 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:44.119 or they want to use their traditional name, like whatever 212 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:45.839 example we can think of, they want to wear any 213 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.720 job they you know, they they like to wear. You 214 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.839 know that they dress a little differently than than your 215 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:58.000 typical student. Like it's not for us to control that. Again, 216 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:03.720 within safe and reasonable limits of course, and in terms 217 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.559 of really listening to parents as well. You know, again, 218 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.799 parents are always part of. 219 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:11.640 The public school system. People are trying to say that 220 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:12.759 they're not, but they are. 221 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:17.559 To the point a very specific policy point a way 222 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:21.920 that what you said about the government stepping back is 223 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:25.799 what we have always had in place. Number one, that 224 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:31.200 we send parental consent forms for most activities, right for 225 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:34.880 you know, whether it's a field study I teach secondary 226 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:37.519 so people might you know, or it's a sports day 227 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.880 or there's a specific speaker coming in. And also that 228 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:46.160 by law we are mandated, the government mandates this that 229 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:50.160 parents can ask or students or whatever both either can 230 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.160 ask for alternative assignments. And that is the duty of 231 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:59.799 the administrator and teachers to provide that alternative space. 232 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.559 So it's not just about. 233 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:05.839 Here's what we teach, here's what on the BC government website. 234 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.960 In terms of curriculum, there really is a back and 235 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:13.160 forth and parents and and you know, people who take 236 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:17.319 care of kids can engage in a dialogue about what 237 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:18.599 that education looks like. 238 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:26.000 Yeah, I like what what you just said. That that's 239 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.720 and that's kind of the point of of of education 240 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:34.759 is to have an open and safe environment and the 241 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:39.359 safe environment. I'm assuming that did you stop at the 242 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:44.160 bullying of one student or a one student against the other, 243 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:48.640 and maybe a teacher against a student. 244 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:54.359 Right, absolutely, And and teacher towards another teacher, right staff 245 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.559 member to staff member. This is our entire society, you know, 246 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:00.119 your boss versus the employee. 247 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:02.279 And again I love examples for this. 248 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:05.720 Right. So you might have a student that says, you know, 249 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.759 according to my faith, you know, we we don't, you know, 250 00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:14.000 we think that being LGBTQ is a sin. Okay, And 251 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:16.720 I've had kids tell me that and we've discussed it. 252 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:17.000 Right. 253 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:21.480 Where that line is is not to change their belief. 254 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.720 It's rather to say so if in the hallway a 255 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.000 student is being made fun of, right, and they're saying, oh, 256 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.799 you talk weird or you dress weird, you know whatever, right, 257 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:36.640 they just they they're making another student feel uncomfortable. What 258 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:40.119 is the you know, in our school we use you know, 259 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.839 we say citizenship. Right, So how can you be the 260 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:47.279 best school citizen in that situation? Do you join in 261 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:50.960 on the bullying because you happen to think that LGBTQ 262 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.720 is a sin, or because you're seeing someone's physical, mental, 263 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.480 spiritual emotional space being violated. Do you at least go 264 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:04.480 tell a teare right, miss o'hanna, there's something going on outside, right, 265 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.720 there's a kid crying and I think they're being bullied. 266 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.920 That's it, right, And it doesn't mean that I'm there 267 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:16.160 to change a student's opinion. Right. But of course, like 268 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.799 in terms of diversity, you know, I want to include 269 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.680 books about different faiths. I want to include, you know, 270 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:24.720 books about people that do great things in our world 271 00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:28.359 that come from different parts, that have different identities. I 272 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:32.400 think it's worth reminding ourselves. Not too long ago, black 273 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.599 indigenous people of color women, you know, those stories were 274 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:39.759 not at all in our textbooks. They were in fact banned, 275 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.039 and in some places in the States that's happening again. 276 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:45.279 You know Jewish stories, you know, like all kinds of 277 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:48.200 things that were denied. So to me, it's the same thing, 278 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:54.000 just that LGBTQ issues is another identity and so it 279 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.559 should be treated the same as as anything else. 280 00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:57.440 Yeah. 281 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:02.920 One one last question, you know, to make this sort 282 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:11.160 of a a global question with what we're seeing on 283 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:16.599 the on the global scene, with things like Afghanistan, Ah, 284 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:26.119 the US president campaigns on both sides that We're not 285 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:33.440 gonna pick pick sides in and and other things with 286 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:40.519 sexual violence that is happening in combat and in combat 287 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.480 situations and everything. Do you do you think that that 288 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:48.000 that as a human race, would that we're forgetting the 289 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:49.319 human rights should exist? 290 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:52.000 Absolutely? 291 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.599 I completely agree with you, and and to be honest, 292 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:59.720 I think it's almost like everything's been. 293 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.160 Reponized and politicized. Right. 294 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:08.400 Our students live should not be politicized. Human rights should 295 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:13.960 not be this this game, right. I think politicians of 296 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.880 all kinds are trying just to get power. And what 297 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:21.440 really saddens me, because my background is in criminology and 298 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:25.880 political science and like legal background, is that you know, 299 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:30.160 as a person who comes from an immigrant family, we 300 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.039 really uphold the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We love 301 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:35.880 that document. I went to high school in southern Florida 302 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.200 and the Bill of Rights right, that that means the 303 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:43.279 world to me, right because it sets up a true 304 00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:46.160 sense of you know, the rights of a human and 305 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:48.720 we can always make them better, but generally speaking, like 306 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.480 these are supreme law documents that really tell us and 307 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.759 protect us because yes, you have freedoms and in Canada, 308 00:23:56.839 --> 00:23:59.519 you know within a reasonable limit, right that's a very 309 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.200 three I think the most important words in Canadian law 310 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:07.240 within reasonable limit. So when you see politicians sidestepping by 311 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.359 using Section thirty three for policies like we're talking about today, 312 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.960 when you see in America governors and Congress and even 313 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:22.160 judges making decisions that strip rights away, when when actually 314 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.440 they're not even realizing what could go wrong. Right, you 315 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:29.440 look at abortion laws, things of that nature, and what's happened, 316 00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:34.039 you know, as a consequence, absolutely, it seems like our 317 00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:39.480 beliefs our, you know, our holding up of what is 318 00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:42.839 one of the most important parts of our democracies, this 319 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:44.960 doesn't seem to be as important anymore. 320 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:45.440 You know. 321 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.039 They're almost like we're going to break the law and 322 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:49.720 then like let the people go to. 323 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:50.319 Court over it. 324 00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:55.920 I don't want seven or nine people, you know, deciding 325 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:59.079 my life, right. I don't want the government to control 326 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.720 my life or or you know, our schools or our 327 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:06.400 homes or are our places of worship. I want to 328 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:09.160 live in a society that protects one another right that 329 00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:11.960 we can say I see you as a human, you 330 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.359 see me as a human, and so we're going to 331 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.640 protect one another so that we make good laws to 332 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:22.079 begin with that that we govern our communities, ourselves with 333 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.440 a sense of love and empathy and understanding, and we 334 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:29.400 can hold our you know, each other accountable. I don't 335 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.759 want to be told I disagree with you. I'm going 336 00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:33.799 to pass a law that's going to hurt you. And 337 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:36.519 good luck that over the next ten years trying to 338 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.599 overturn that law that I think goes against the human 339 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:42.960 rights nature that. 340 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:44.720 Both Canada and America. 341 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:47.359 You know, the Bill of Rights is obviously older, older 342 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.599 than the Charter, but you know, I guess we can 343 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:52.839 say since nineteen forty eight at least, that seem to 344 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.599 a lot of us are the cornerstone of why we're 345 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:58.880 so proud to be citizens of Canada. And then we 346 00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.599 see places like have gon as on and other places 347 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:03.759 where human rights are just non existent. 348 00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:09.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I couldn't have said said that 349 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:13.079 any better myself. I like exactly the way you put that, 350 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:19.640 because we, like you said, in in the US, the 351 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:26.680 Supreme Court, uh in they made a judgment that should 352 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:33.039 have been over the the legal immunity of of the president. 353 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:38.599 The president was supposed to lie within Congress. Yeah, and 354 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:45.960 they have now removed that that safety and and then 355 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:50.680 of course, the the the falling of a Roe versus 356 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:56.240 way in the Supreme Court. And then I've brought up 357 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.759 the example of Afghanistan because there is a meme out 358 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:06.799 there that actually showed the Afghani women looking like any 359 00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:09.519 other woman that you would have seen during the nineteen 360 00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:13.880 sixties or nineteen seventies at the time. Yeah, fashion in 361 00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:18.359 everything being the same, and it's it, and now it 362 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:19.839 has become so very different. 363 00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.519 So that's such a good point, right, Like, Afghanistan has 364 00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:28.000 such a rich history and culture, and it's just been 365 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:30.480 the last you know, like since the Cold War, right 366 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:36.559 where you've seen the real downward spiral, and and here 367 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:39.920 we are now it's worse than it's ever been. And 368 00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:42.920 I certainly it's not just the Taliban's fault, right obviously 369 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.160 the Taliban are the ones that are in government, but 370 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.799 we really seem to have let down the Afghani people. 371 00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:52.359 And and you know, you see women that can no 372 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.920 longer speak in public, like voices can no longer be heard. 373 00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:02.920 That is full frightening, right, that that is so absolutely scary. 374 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:05.960 Might I note though, that you know, I saw recently 375 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.400 a protest there were actually Afghan women walking down Kabul 376 00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:13.160 daring to speak, and so you know, I hold out hope. 377 00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:18.119 I hope that no matter what Supreme Court or government 378 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:22.039 or whatever you know, enacts, that there are people that 379 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.160 are willing to stand up for their human rights. 380 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:30.720 Yeah, I'd like like that also because the bottom line 381 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.640 is we we need to be able to stand up 382 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:38.799 for our own human rights. So absolutely, with that being said, 383 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:47.480 thank you for your time today and and to everybody listening. 384 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:52.160 Is a the best way for us all to stand 385 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:54.559 up for our human rights, especially if we live in 386 00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:59.599 a democracy, Get to the polls and cast a vote when. 387 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:06.480 It is absolutely best way to make change. 388 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:05.920 One hundred percent. 389 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:08.759 Please vote, vote, vote, I don't care who you vote for, 390 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:13.160 but vote and ask questions of your candidates. I've gone 391 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:16.720 to several debates already and I'm finding myself and certain 392 00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:19.119 not you know, not all the time, but there's moments 393 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.759 where candidates are escaping questions or they don't even show up, 394 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.960 and that worries me. Right, So, so if you can 395 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.519 try to find the time to to ask candidates for 396 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:32.759 for real, detailed answers, so that when you go to 397 00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.680 the polls, you go really knowing what you're voting for. 398 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:39.960 And not just a party name or a person's name. 399 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:44.319 You know that there are good people running and also 400 00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:48.000 if they want to be to represent us, they have 401 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:51.519