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Speaker 2: On the go, NonStop gym sessions, deadlines, homework with Avonmore, soups, comforting,

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flavorful taste, it all just hmmmm with a range of

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different flavors. We've been perfecting soup for over thirty years

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so you can have a moment of delicious pleasure. So

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whatever it is, soup it with Avonmore.

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Speaker 3: Meaning life. Man, I like this man letting butterfly Latin

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in wave big then in force. Man, you gonna cause

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a threefold letting fat a mild away man, Nobody see

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nobody see you know need knowing man story and you

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got back to protect that. Go back to Dagon panel.

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Speaker 4: All right, Cee Jangle, Welcome back to Jay Burdensto. How

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are you doing that?

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Speaker 5: I'm doing good. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I'm glad to have you back. On glad

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to actually have a conversation face to face. So I

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figured this will be a more topical, more news related

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show than normal. But there are two big stories with

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a connecting line that I want to cover. The first, obviously,

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is now Abigail Spanberger is the governor of my home

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state of Virginia. And as the kids say, the Democrats

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are going hard in the paint right there, doing all

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the sort of things that we were assured moderate Democrats

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never do as regards to the Second Amendment, abortion of

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anti white discrimination. And that's one part of it. Another

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one is this anti Christian protest in Minneapolis. Right. There's

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a pastor, there's an official at the church who may

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or may not be connected to ICE, and so Don

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Lemon and a number of other you know, kind of

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radical left activists storm the church, right. And the through

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line is basically, this is what happens when you lose

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the idea that this is some sort of contest between

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gentlemen that the GOP can sync back into politics as

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it were, is plainly, completely and totally absurd, right, This

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is not how it works. So just a little bit

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of context there, because people do listen to these well

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after the fact, and so I wanted to provide sort

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of a primer there. But CJ, I'm curious, what are

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your thoughts on both of these incidents and what do

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you think that we should learn from them.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think there's a couple of different layers here. One.

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I think that there's this tendency in politics to think

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that like, once we get through this little hurdle, these

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are very bad people, we can let them out and

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then things can go back to normal. And people don't

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understand that history has a tragic sense to it, and

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there are moments in history. I mean, as Lennon said,

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there are weeks where decades happened, and we're kind of

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in one of those historic world historic moments, and the

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stakes are so high that both sides kind of know

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that if they lose, the other side is going to

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take it all the way. The problem is is that

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the GOP classic GOP, going back a very long time,

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half a century or more, they've always approached the issue like, well,

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we're going to take the path, We're gonna take the

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high path, we're going to do the high road, and

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we're not going to do what is necessary to defeat

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the enemy. Because the Democrats are not our enemy. They're

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actually just on another side of the aisle. But we're

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all one people. That's kind of the way they approach it.

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Historic Democrats have generally, i mean, this isn't this hasn't

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always been the way that Democrats are. Right, So, like

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after the war, both sides were kind of right there

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in the middle. They were working hard to make sure

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that the radical factions to the GOP's right and to

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the Democrats left never really got into power. So we

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talk about things like you know, Bill Buckley, and his

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role was to sort of make sure that those on

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the extreme fringes of the right didn't actually have any

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influence on the conservative movement. So he did his job

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very well. Actually, you know, people call him a failure,

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but actually his job was to keep the extreme right

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from accessing, you know, the organs of narrative formation and

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of political power itself, and he was very successful, and

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in fact, he was more successful than the Democrats were.

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They had their own people that were there to keep

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the radical left out and they failed. So Buckley actually

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did better. And so all of this what we see

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now is the Democrats have been much more infiltrated by

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the their own radicals, whereas the GOP hasn't actually been

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infiltrated very well at all with right wing radicals. They've

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actually the GOP establishment has done a much better job

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at holding the fort down and staying true to their

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liberal ideals. The problem is that now we're in a

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situation where we have these the conservative side of the

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post war consensus is going to war with an increasingly

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radicalized left, and the radicalized left wants blood, and the

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conservative post war establishment wants to return to the nineteen

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seventies and nineteen eighties, and in that fight, it's obvious

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who's going to win. What you see in Virginia is

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the fruition of that these people are ready for blood,

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and the GOP still doesn't get it. And so what

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you're seeing is this realization among the Democrats that the

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American people are pissed off. They are done with democracy,

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they are done with constitutional principles which have always been

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you against them, always been used against initiatives that can

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be leveraged in order to take back their country, take

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back their heritage, and so they're done with it. They're like, look,

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if we're gonna lose any ways, if we're gonna lose

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our country anyways, we might as well go all the way.

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The problem is is that all of the people in

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power that nominally represent them, they do not see things

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that way at all. And so that's what's happening. The

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Democrats understand that the stakes are so high. The American

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people want blood, and they know that if this younger generation,

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you know, twenties and thirty year old, if they get

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any any if they get any closer to power, their

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days are numbered. And the you know, their their liberal

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hegemony is days are numbered as well, and so that's

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part of the problem. They have to make sure that,

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you know, can right wingers never get close to power,

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and that's what they're prepared to do, and they don't.

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They're not really going to face any opposition because, as

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you said, especially state level geopeers are incredibly pathetic, and

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so they're not prepared to do anything. And so, you know,

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just kind of casting out what would happen if the

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reply and look, I'm not a Republican advocate or partisan,

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like I don't really care that much for the GOP. However,

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you know, a GOP winning in twenty six and twenty

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eight continues to buy us time, and that's what we

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need is time to organize, time to form the ranks,

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time to build up the courage to actually fight back,

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because the present establishment, the old guard that still exists

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in Washington and the Conservative movement is completely unprepared for

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what's coming down the pipeline. So when I say the

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GOP needs to win, it's not because I care all

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that much for the GOP. It's because I recognize the

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Democrats are much more radicalized than the GOP and just

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having the inability of power to kind of, you know,

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work in lockstep with itself in order to push us

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away and basically decimate us, that's what we need. We

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need that time, and the Democrats know that the Democrats

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do not want us to have that time, and so

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therefore they will do whatever it takes to get into power.

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And once they have that power, they will seek to

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crush their enemy for all time, which is the complete

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opposite perspective that the GOP has.

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Speaker 4: Well, certainly, this reminds me of something that my friend

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Peter Brimolo said in his appearance on Tucker, which is

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quite good. If you haven't listened to it, listener, you should,

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because one of the things that he talks about is

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that there are these sort of implicit communities. When he

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used the example of NASCAR for example, he's like, no

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one at NASCAR wants to be a sport associated with

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the white working claves. They've tried to distance themselves from

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that fan base, and yet nonetheless that is the association.

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And somewhat similarly, the GOP is the Party of Americans, right,

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people who are actually from here, who don't have anywhere

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else to go, who are religious. And so I share

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your feelings. I don't particularly like the party at all, really,

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but it's really the only game we got, at least,

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you know, as the state of play stands. And so

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when you see this sort of limpristed behavior, right, you

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see this sort of unwillingness to do something that would

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provoke any sort of negative reaction from your opponents, Well,

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we've seen where that goes. We see the consequences. Obviously.

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I had, you know, our mutual friend and a risk

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Aron not too long ago to discuss the broader situation

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in Minnesota, and that was a common note in his

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comments as well. The Minnesota GOP is by and large

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completely useless, right, unwilling to view politics as it is currently,

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which is sad to say, an existential struggle, right, I

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don't like that. I don't wish that were the case.

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But fundamentally pretending as if we are in this era

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of good feelings, obviously referring to a different era, but

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we'll keep it just as a conversation piece. It doesn't

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make it true, right, Just by pretending it doesn't make

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it happen. Conservatives are more than willing to point this

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out when it comes to transsexuals or others, and so

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to me, it's incredibly baffling, especially because as we've seen

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in Virginia, as we've seen in Minnesota, or even on

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places like Blue Sky, the consequences are quite clear. Your

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way of life will be made illegal, it will be

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impossible to live as you want to, or in the

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case of prominent politicians, you'll go to jail, or you'll

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go to the Hague. Right, they will ruin your life.

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We saw this happen, or at least a solid attempt

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at it, between the first and second Trump presidency, and

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so I'm curious you'd think, even just cynically, that these

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people would act out of self preservation. Why do you

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think that conservative leaders for whatever that term is construed

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to mean. Are not aware of this danger to them,

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if not to their.

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Speaker 5: Voters, because they don't operate with you know, a classical

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political mind. They operate much more with a with with

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with like a series of narcissism where they can get

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payoffs and payouts and and and financial benefits. And it's

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basically like a big party to them. You know, it's

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all it's all a club. I mean, that's that's like

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classic like Republican donor level dynamics. Is it's all a

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big club where you can I mean, this is this

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is why all they care about is like business, because

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the GOP exists basically to represent uh economic interests, and

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so that's what they care about. They they're not thinking

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in terms of politics. Classical politics was which is the

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class a friend and enemy along existential lines. And so

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they they have been there. They're just so absorbed in

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the corruption of like a narcissistic style of capitalism or

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whatever you want to call it, that they've politics to

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them actually is something of the past. And so and

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so I would say that the Democrat have much better

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political minds. They're much more you know, for all of

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their ideals or whatever. They're much better at recognizing the realistic,

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the realism of politics. I'll say this too. You know,

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we talked like I see this all the time on

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Twitter and it drives me crazy. So I'm going to

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take the opportunity to to push back on it. But

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like I always see from the like the maga, the

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paid maggot influencers that like they'll show a picture of

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some like Islamic gathering in Dearborn or in Texas or

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in New York or other places like that, and they'll say,

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like it's over, It's Michigan is lost forever. You know,

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they've you know, they've they've won. It's it's lost. And

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like they keep saying these things. And now Virginia is

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going through these this own you know, series of of

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like really intense radical legal initiatives to show up their

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own power in Virginia, and so these same maggot influencers

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are saying Virginia's cooked, it's over.

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Speaker 6: It's like at KFC, where are doing a deal on

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our mini Philates, ten Mini Phillips for just twelve year

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of fifty that's sure to fill you up, like I'm

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filling this time up. Just stretchchate ice, how'd your fill? Okay,

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I'll go, but make sure you have your philiphilates. Grab

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a book up before the dealers up on fabbe fultecencs

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at KFC dot ie okay, bye bye bye bye bye

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bye bye bye.

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Speaker 5: They're they're they themselves, these MAGA influences are they're not

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thinking politically, they're thinking within the bounds of liberal democracy.

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And since these these places are basically utilizing soft power

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to shore up their own hegemony in all of these places,

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the MAGA influencers are still operating on a post war paradigm,

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and so they can't see that politics actually can return

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and you actually can defeat these things because these are

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actually incredibly weak people. What they're utilizing is increasingly depleted

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political structures, and so you can defeat them. You just

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can't defeat them within the paradigm of electoral democracy. And

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that's what people have to that's what the right wing

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has to understand. The problem is is that the radicalized

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right is so far to the right of the GOP

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establishment that we have nobody willing to actually wield power

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in an effective way. But places like Virginia and Dearport

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and dearborn in Texas. They could be crushed by you know,

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by power overnight if they really wanted to. I mean,

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you see this all throughout the twentieth century in Europe

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in extraordinary situations. You know, power can do extraordinary things,

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and so we shouldn't We shouldn't approach it like it's

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lost forever. But what we need to realize is that

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politics is returning. Politics has returned that we need to

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operate on a friend enemy paradigm, and the GOP is

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basically like a temporary ally that we can use for

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our benefit, to buy us time to push our agenda,

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little bits here and there, But ultimately we have to

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we have to see this through and we have to

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put an end to this. You know, post war liberalism

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is killing us and it's not sustainable.

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Speaker 4: Well CJ. That sounds very woke, right of you. How

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dare you look at the people who have won every

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major political conflict domestically in the last eight years and

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try to learn from that. You should be running the

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same playbook that the losers have. Of course, I'm slightly joking,

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of course, but what is your retort to those who say,

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you know, even worse than losing is becoming like the

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woke left. What do you say in response to that?

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Speaker 5: I think American history is full of heroes who took

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extraordinary measures in extraordinary times. I mean, the entire American

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Revolution was illegal. It was completely against Like you're not

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allowed as a colony to you know, declare war on

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and rebel against the British Empire. That's that's against the law. Right,

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So like our own our own American spirit is full

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of heroes and people who declared the state of the exception.

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George Washington and all the other rebels declared the state

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of exception. Andrew Jackson basically did the same thing in

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numerous ways. And so like the idea that this is somehow,

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this like eternal law, that we have to adhere to

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these principles even when they've exploited against us, is something

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that I think is ridiculous and suicidal. But also I

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think if they want to claim that what we're doing

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is where we are, if by woke right they mean

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that we are challenging the established hegemony of liberal democracy,

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then okay, you can call me whatever you want. I

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don't It doesn't really bother me to be called I've

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been called worse names, right, Like, that's that's the answer,

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is we've been called worse names. I mean, Eisenhower deported

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you know, a million illegals, and in people today called

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Trump like literally Hitler for deporting what to hundred and

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fifty thousand people. So like, it doesn't these words can't

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affect us anymore if they want to call us woke, right,

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and all that means is that we've abandoned liberal democracy. Okay,

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that's fine, you know, so we can't get caught up

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in these in these labels that are are shot at

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as those that's loser think actually and loser think gets

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all caught up in perception. They care what the enemy

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thinks of them, and they want to be perceived as

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better in the light of those who want them dead.

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And that's that's a recipe for political disaster and also

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you know, civilizational disaster. You know, not even just you know,

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political disaster in electoral terms, but also civilizational disaster. These

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people very clearly want our way of life liquidated, and

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they want to see us banish from the face of

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the earth. And that's the stake not looking.

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Speaker 4: Bad well, and you see that very much with the

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inability of Republicans in power to make any meaningful changes.

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It was sort of telling, right. I think it was

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Youngkin's one of his last comments right the day before

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he transferred power was you know, what was your biggest

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regret in office? And he had this sort of globe

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comment like, oh, I'm sad we couldn't get the sports

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team a new stadium in my state of Virginia. And

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I thought it was very telling because it's like, well, look, man,

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like you came within two thousand votes of completely and

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totally carrying the state. It was very narrow. You could

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have had a trifecta. And okay, so that indicates that

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at least four years ago this was in play. I

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understand you have the whole Loud County scandal which was

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a part of that, But what did you do in

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your time and power? Okay, you made the DMV work better.

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I appreciate that, but there was really no desire to

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expand your power. There was no desire to make that

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state more like how your voters want to be. Everything

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was simply put on pause. We imported hundreds of thousands

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of new guests, if you will, and roundly defeated complete

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and total destruction and you see that, and a large

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part of it is because he did try to make

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very tepid reforms to education and a few other things.

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And as soon as he was yelled at, as soon

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as they said, oh you know, you're just like Trump,

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You're just like Orange Man. Oh nope, we're not doing

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that anymore. I need to go back to my big

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business corporate consulting job. That the one interest group that

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did quite well under him. And look, you know, I'm

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a little bit salty about this because my life is

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likely going to be not so much fun for the

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next little bit. And okay, fair enough, But that same

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pattern you see over and over again that very very

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few Republicans, the Indiana GOP is another example, are willing

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to play politics, are willing to recognize that this is

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is existential, as you've said, And so given that the

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frustration is understanding is understandable. Rather because you made a

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generational point, and it's one that I've identified as well. Obviously,

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you have the big ticket issues that are sort of

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signifiers of other things, you know, immigration, the state of Israel,

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racial representations, shall we say that, are you know, signifiers

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of a broader generational change. But to me, I'm genuinely

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curious what becomes of the red state Republican because they're

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older right there. There are not a lot of guys

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in there, you know, even in gen X who I

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would consider in that kind of classic you know, Indian

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a Republican mold. But from what I see, the base

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is incredibly radical. And you see this with I had

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Mark Mitchell from resmusin on not too long ago, and

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he was talking about this, that there's this shocking divide

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on Republicans or concern it is rather plus or minus forty,

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where the under forty crowd is basically as you said,

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they want to see blood. They don't really care how

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it happens, but they want you know, Judge Bosberg in particular,

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but you know you can extend that to other figures.

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They want his head on a metaphorical pike, like yeah,

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charge him, throw them in jail, whatever, We don't care.

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And I think that the goal of the Democrats, as

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far as I see it, is effectively to pull so

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many people into the country that politics doesn't exist anymore.

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They can become a one party state. And to me,

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I don't think there's really any getting away from politics.

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So I'm curious, you know, what do you see the

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future looking like, you know, if you have this increasing

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gap between the political class and you know, a radicalizing base,

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particularly of young white guys.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I am so. I've actually one theme that is

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constantly debated on the right is whether the solution is

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going to come from more regional initiatives where people kind

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of shore up their power and surround themselves with allied

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people in the face of a national trend that's seeking

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to disenfranchise them, or whether it's going to have to

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come from the center and all political power initiative is

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going to have to be absorbed into something at the

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at the national level. And for most of my you know,

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political career is the wrong word, but like for you know,

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most of the time that I've been commenting and thinking

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about this stuff, I've actually taken the more decentralized approach.

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And I think a lot of others are you take

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on the same but I've actually shifted gears. I don't

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think that's possible anymore because of technology and because of

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the sheer civilizational volume of what's happening in terms of

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you know, the import the you know, importing of migrants

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from the Third World and all of that stuff. I

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actually think it's going to have to come from the center,

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and it's going to have to be you know, we're

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going to have to transform from a like republican name

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only to a formal empire, and that's the only way

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we're going to get out of this. So I actually

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have much more of a centralizing approach to this, and

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so I think that basically state level and county level,

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you know, all of those, all of those things are

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going to basically have to be you know, held in

401
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check by some sort of power figure at the top.

402
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I don't think that there's any other way out because

403
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I don't think that any attempt to regionally disassociate from

404
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the halls of power is going to be possible. I

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don't think that any attempt at the top too is

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going to let them get away with any like dissent

407
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or secession or nullification or any of those outdated concepts.

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And I think that tech is actually becoming much more

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of a centralizing force than people may have previously anticipate.

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I think we're going to have to go through a

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period of increased centralization. I think there's going to be

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a multipolarity to world affairs. I really think that things

413
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are going to be divided up, like with the powers

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in Asia, and you know, the America is going to

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have to kind of be all under one you know,

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under one head, not not necessarily formally, but it's going

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to have like we're going to have to be a

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power player or nothing. I think that's the only way

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out is to have those things. So to answer your

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question specifically, I think the answer is going to come

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from I've actually been talking about this for a while,

422
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but I think the influence of Congress over the next

423
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ten to twenty years is actually going to become less

424
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and less important. And you can see this in the

425
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initiatives that the Trump administration has taken in Greenland, in Venezuela.

426
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They're talking about Cuba and other places like that, where

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they're basically seizing assets and they're selling them on the

428
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market and they've basically acute eimulated for themselves tens of

429
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billions of dollars that they control. The Trump administration, the

430
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,599
executive state, is taking control of these resources. Well, what

431
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does that mean. It means it doesn't need to go

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to the American people, It doesn't need to go to

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Congress for money. You know, if it seizes those assets

434
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and sells them, they don't need Congress Congress's permission to

435
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,559
fund their initiatives. And so what's happening is Congress is

436
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going to increase their petty squabbles. They're going to continue

437
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to be sort of a basically like a clown show

438
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that has no impact on power, and there's going to

439
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,960
be extraordinary existential political situations that the executive state is

440
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,680
going to have to act upon. It's going to have

441
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its own budget, it's going to have its own infrastructure.

442
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I mean, think about ice. You know, the Trump administration

443
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basically has this army of people that are in the

444
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middle of being trained. They have all of these contracts

445
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for all types of different infrastructure and other equipment and

446
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mechanisms that they now have, and they have a bigger

447
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budget than the Marines. They've already been fully funded, and

448
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they have extra funding that's basically at the discretion of

449
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the executive branch. And so I think what's going to

450
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happen is this is going to be an executive led nation,

451
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and that executive led nation is going to take on

452
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the characteristics of empire. An empire has to continue to

453
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grow or it dies. And so I think that's kind

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of the inevitable trend of the second quarter of the

455
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twenty first century. And so all the little squabbling at

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the state level, all the GOP conservatives that are too

457
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,720
passive and too paralyzed to take any actual political action,

458
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it's not going to matter anyway, because all the power

459
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is going to be in the executive branch. And I

460
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think that's inevitable.

461
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Speaker 4: Well, and you mentioned earlier the kind of weak and

462
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ineffectual nature of these leaders on the political left, and

463
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to me, it very much reminds me of Machiavelli's distinction

464
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between boxes and lions. It might not be Machiavelli, My

465
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,359
citation on any Italian elite theorist sort of runs together

466
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,480
and Italian said this, but he made the distinction again

467
00:27:05,559 --> 00:27:08,960
between foxes and lions. Right, the lion is sort of

468
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,480
the dictatorial figure, the man who rules by strength, whereas

469
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the fox is a manager right to someone who is

470
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competent with soft power. And to be honest, we have

471
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,680
been in an era of foxes. There is a cyclical

472
00:27:24,759 --> 00:27:28,920
nature to this, you know, the foxes create a sort

473
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,519
of Gordian knot. Right, this impossible problem with managers crawling

474
00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:35,759
all over it until a strong man comes up with

475
00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:39,200
the sword, cuts it in half, right, solves the intractable

476
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,480
issue on the other end. And we're probably quite a

477
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:45,200
long time from this sort of cycle. But you know,

478
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,000
a lion regime, if you will, becomes ossified, becomes stultified.

479
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,440
You can think of the you know, the French monarchy

480
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:56,680
right before the revolution, you know, kind of overbound. It

481
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:00,440
wasn't alive anymore. And so look again, there is a

482
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,160
cyclical nature to this. But to me, as far as

483
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,240
I'm aware, that's the only way to get out of it.

484
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,400
There must be a man, a guy. And similarly, one

485
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,960
of the other things that's come up in both Minnesota

486
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,440
and soon to be in Virginia is how much of

487
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,440
our enemies are mercenaries. They're bribed, they get paid to

488
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,200
do what they do. And we understand, of course from

489
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:29,240
Mochy Velly, the dangers of mercenaries. They are at the

490
00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:32,279
risk of being tautological mercenary. You know, they're there for

491
00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:35,240
the money, they're there for the gibbs, and when those

492
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,400
gibs dry up, or when there's a chance of real consequences,

493
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,559
when there's a chance of you know, actually having to,

494
00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:44,039
you know, to face defeat. They tend to cut their losses,

495
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,279
live to fight another day, live to collect another paycheck.

496
00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:50,319
And I think another aspect of this, And you know,

497
00:28:50,359 --> 00:28:55,599
I've been very vocal about my criticisms of the Trump administration,

498
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:58,359
so you know, don't take this to be you know

499
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,759
me again, as the kids say, glazed him. But Trump

500
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:06,960
is showing us something different from politics, which is personal loyalty, right,

501
00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:10,839
not loyalty to an institution, the GOP or whatever, but

502
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,039
loyalty to a man. Right. I like that guy because

503
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,000
he does X y Z for me. And you said earlier, right,

504
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,079
you were talking about the return of politics. That's another

505
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,079
part of it. That personal loyalty is a much stronger bond,

506
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,160
even if it is wasted, even if it is not

507
00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:31,960
exploited to the degree that it could be. Then these

508
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,799
sort of mercenary impulses. Now, look, it's always a little both, right,

509
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,240
Like the Legion is chanting Caesar because they love Caesar,

510
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,160
but also because you know, you enslave and or kill

511
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:47,799
two million goals and everyone gets paid.

512
00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:48,319
Speaker 3: Right.

513
00:29:48,359 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: So I'm not trying to say it's in either or,

514
00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:53,359
but I think in my mind, I think that that

515
00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:56,440
is very much the way of things, right, that this

516
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,200
sort of institutional loyalty is very much an aberration in

517
00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:05,000
human affairs. And I think it depended on a broad

518
00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:08,400
conception that the system worked, a broad conception that these

519
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:16,559
institutions had our respect and were legitimate. But as you've said, really,

520
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,799
I mean for my entire life, but increasingly through the

521
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:24,759
Biden years, and now that institutional cache has been spent,

522
00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:28,279
there's very little left in the piggybank, so to speak.

523
00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:31,920
And so if that is the source of your legitimacy,

524
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,799
if that's the source of your kind of cachet or

525
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,240
simply bribery, I don't necessarily know how that lasts when situation,

526
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,920
when the situation deteriorates, when things get actually difficult, when

527
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,680
politics becomes actually nasty. I realize I've thrown a bunch

528
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,319
of you there, CJ. But I'll let you react.

529
00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:54,799
Speaker 5: Yeah. One thing that stood out to me was just

530
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,279
the idea of the personality that can kind of capture

531
00:30:59,319 --> 00:31:04,240
the imaginationation and the loyalty of the people or whoever.

532
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,559
And I think, I think what happens in the cycle

533
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:11,039
of history is that personality becomes you know, part of

534
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,079
part of a like a like a founding momentum for

535
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:20,519
a people, and so eventually that can ossify into allegiance

536
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:24,160
to a system or a nation or something metaphysical. But

537
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,160
it starts with a personality. And in a situation when

538
00:31:28,599 --> 00:31:33,559
things have become so paralyzed and corrupted and ossified, that's

539
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:36,160
when the personality needs to return. So this is kind

540
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,319
of like a Thomas Carlyle point is, Uh, these these

541
00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:44,119
types of cycles come and go, and so you don't

542
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,720
always need to have the personality there. But the purpose

543
00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:50,640
of the personality is to reignite the engine, so to speak.

544
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,000
So like the people in England, you know, were once

545
00:31:54,119 --> 00:31:57,440
loyal to King Alfred, and they were you know, he

546
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,920
was their champion, he was their hero. He was sort

547
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:03,720
of the founding figure of the English people, you know

548
00:32:03,759 --> 00:32:06,160
in some ways. And I know history is complex, but

549
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,559
he's an example of one of these types of personalities.

550
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,880
And then you know, history isn't full of a constant

551
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,960
flow of these types of personalities. And so he leaves

552
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,480
the person the hero leaves his mark on history, and

553
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:22,960
the systems begin to operate in his name, and they

554
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,680
try to operate in accordance with his vision, and that

555
00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:28,720
dissipates over time, and it usually, you know, it could

556
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:33,240
last decades, it could last centuries. In the English situation,

557
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:36,680
it lasted you know, a thousand years or more. And

558
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,799
so that was a that was a blessing that even

559
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,599
like Anglo Americans had in their context, is they were

560
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,319
able to you know, like a lot of people don't notice,

561
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,920
but the entire ethos of the American founding was based

562
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,839
on their appreciation for their own English heritage. But that

563
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,839
English heritage was founded, you know, by personalities. But the

564
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,359
system became corrupted, and so you have figures like George

565
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,839
Washington that can reignite it and they can help them

566
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:06,240
reinvigorate that spirit. And so you need heroes as well.

567
00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:11,200
And heroes are the ones that you know, that break

568
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:14,759
back into history and reassert the dominance and the importance

569
00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:18,079
of politics and the reality of politics. Andrew Jackson was

570
00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:20,559
another figure like this. And so from time to time

571
00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:23,960
you have these when the system becomes so corrupted and

572
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,200
ossify that nothing's actually functioning appropriately, you need that person

573
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,960
to come back in and remind people that they are loyalty,

574
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:36,599
that their loyalty to flesh and blood is more paramount

575
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,880
than their loyalty to systems. And I think Donald Trump

576
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,279
sort of quasi anticipated that type of figure, that type

577
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:45,359
of historic figure. I don't know if he is a

578
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:49,000
man of history. It doesn't appear so, but you need

579
00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:52,400
someone like that. But he's definitely reawakening our imaginations and

580
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,160
reminding us that better things are possible, that we don't

581
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,720
have to accept the way things have been for the

582
00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:00,759
last half century, that our grand children don't have to

583
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:04,480
suffer under that. And so these things, these examples that

584
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,920
we're giving in Minnesota, in Virginia and else in Texas

585
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,119
and elsewhere in the United States, are actually good because

586
00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:15,639
it's reminding people that there that there are more important

587
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:20,119
priorities than just elections and the democratic mechanisms and all

588
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:23,079
of these things that we've been taught to be loyal to. Well, actually,

589
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:26,039
we shouldn't just be loyalty to loyal to systems. We

590
00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:29,920
should only be loyal systems when they reflect the personality

591
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,039
and the heroic contributions of a founding figure.

592
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,079
Speaker 4: Well, and I mean, you could even look at you know,

593
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,320
f FDR in that light. And obviously his project didn't

594
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,559
last as long, but we are still very much in

595
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:46,519
the crumbling remains of the house he built. The way

596
00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:52,119
our government government works was sort of decided by FDR.

597
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:56,000
And it's funny I was sort of you know, joking,

598
00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:59,000
of course about the whole woke right brigade. I have

599
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,360
you know, written and spoken about them at length because

600
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,639
I think there's sort of an interesting fracture happening in

601
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:09,159
the conservative movement, sort of analogous to again the Buckley

602
00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:13,519
Heighte purges of yesteryear. But it is always interesting to

603
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:17,679
me that these these conservatives are really the only ones

604
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:21,840
who still believe in that system anymore, who still believe

605
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:25,760
in you know, the politics of kind of FDR at all,

606
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,039
you know, all of that system in which you know,

607
00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:31,960
the American Empire and its form was sort of created.

608
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:37,880
Just an interesting uh side there on your your broader

609
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:44,519
point about you know, centralization versus these kind of splinter movements.

610
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,440
And maybe this is you know, typical of you know,

611
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,360
my age or demographic, but generally I'm at the sort

612
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,679
of point where I actually don't really care what we

613
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,559
do that fixes this. Like, to be perfectly honest, I

614
00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:01,360
think that many people who or you know, like myself,

615
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,320
perhaps less politically well educated, are are sort of feeling

616
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,039
at a loss, right, sort of feeling as if like, well,

617
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:11,400
whatever it is, make this go away, make this stop.

618
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,239
And I wonder almost if and you see this, I

619
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,880
think in the kind of you know, post liberal crowd

620
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,519
as well as if there is sort of a conscious

621
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:29,440
rejection or unconscious whichever one, rejection of ideology, right, rejecting

622
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,960
of some kind of totalizing system. I mean, honestly, you

623
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,519
saw the same thing happen to the libertarian sphere. You know,

624
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:37,360
there are a great number of post libertarians, and so

625
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,639
I'm curious, do you think that you know, ideology is

626
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,079
going away at least in an explicit form, or do

627
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:45,599
you think that this is sort of a function of

628
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:46,719
human organization.

629
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I think that ideology adapts to real world needs,

630
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:55,800
and so ideology is always important because you need something

631
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:02,079
that can be communicated and you know, motiva, your brothers.

632
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:07,480
And I think that ideology is something that humans, you know,

633
00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:11,440
grasp onto and articulate in the service of their actual needs.

634
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,280
And so I don't know if I would say that

635
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,400
ideology is going away, but I would say that an

636
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,320
ideology that is unconnected to the real world needs and

637
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,639
identity of a people is in the long run dissipates,

638
00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:28,960
and so I think that what's going to happen is

639
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,559
the right wing is going to adopt for itself an

640
00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:36,599
ideology that justifies their own needs. It's going to justify

641
00:37:36,639 --> 00:37:39,320
their own actions. It's going to justify the things that

642
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,199
need to be done in order to preserve their way

643
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,599
of life, or not even preserve, but recapture reinstate their

644
00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:48,079
way of life. Ideology is going to come into the equation.

645
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:54,320
I mean, you see this in figures like Muldbug and

646
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,400
Nick Land and you know pek Q and just you know,

647
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,920
the two of us, Like, we are constantly talking about ideas,

648
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,639
and ideology needs to be adjusted, constantly adjusting to the

649
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:09,679
needs of our people. And so ideology, I think it

650
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,519
gets a bad rap among conservatives, and I think that

651
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:16,559
there's a case to be made for not idolizing ideology

652
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,440
and not making it the like the the kind of

653
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,840
like the fixed star that we can't move from. But

654
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,440
I also think that we need to you know, develop

655
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:28,760
and continue to develop our own ideology, which which needs

656
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,320
to be in flux in accordance with where we're at,

657
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:34,239
the characteristics of our enemy. The tools that we have

658
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,239
at our disposal, the mechanisms and systems that are being

659
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,400
waged and wielded against us. All these things go into

660
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,039
the making of an ideology that can justify and sanction

661
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,159
our political activity. So our ideology is actually brilliant right now.

662
00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:52,159
It's it's it's infused with lessons from the past. It's

663
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:56,360
infused with Carl Schmidt and De Maestra, even Aristotle, it's

664
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,239
infused with you know, John Calhoun, It's infused with you know,

665
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,719
all kinds of thinkers from Europe in the twentieth century,

666
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,159
from America in the nineteenth century, from the classical age.

667
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,000
We have these things that we can use at our disposal,

668
00:39:11,079 --> 00:39:13,519
so we don't have to create it excellent helo like

669
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:16,639
from scratch. We don't have to create our own ideology

670
00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:20,519
from scratch. But we can use and leverage ideological tools

671
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,119
from our own heritage and deploy them for our current

672
00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:26,400
situation in order to get what we need out of them.

673
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm curious. I think that your description is quite

674
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,760
accurate there. One of the things that I've been watching

675
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,920
and someone interested in is the attempted sort of reconstitution

676
00:39:44,559 --> 00:39:47,800
of the neo cons One of the things that I've

677
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,880
been talking about for weeks now, is that there seems

678
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:57,320
to be a deliberate sort of attack line right that

679
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,760
runs something like, you have this dangerous woke right. They've

680
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,280
already gotten to your kids. Cut your kids out, whether

681
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,679
that's literal or at a place like Heritage Right. Get

682
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,159
rid of the young staffers, but also get rid of

683
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:15,119
figures like Okay, well one tes he's representative of that group.

684
00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:18,599
He talked to Tucker, so get rid of him. Obviously

685
00:40:18,679 --> 00:40:21,960
there's other things going on there, but the real end

686
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,400
goal of that attack seems to be JD.

687
00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 5: Vans.

688
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,159
Speaker 4: Over and over again, we see this connection made. You know,

689
00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:33,480
you have figures like I'll shoot I can't have that,

690
00:40:33,559 --> 00:40:38,039
Rod Dreer, others like Brilin Hollyhand who wrote an article

691
00:40:38,159 --> 00:40:41,280
wrote an article about this. But point is, there seems

692
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,840
to be this desire to create this sort of string

693
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:49,960
of red thread linking the the woke right too JD. Vans,

694
00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:53,519
coming from all of your favorites, all the old neokons

695
00:40:53,519 --> 00:40:58,199
who are still kicking around. And so I'm curious, what

696
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,920
if any danger do you see coming from the neo

697
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,960
conservatives and why do they seem to be so focused

698
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:05,719
on JD.

699
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 5: Vans Are you are you? Are you ask? Are you

700
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:12,800
saying that the neocons are very anti Vance? Is that

701
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:13,639
what you're saying? Yes?

702
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 4: Yes, and are deliberately trying to tie him to this

703
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,800
woke right radical group in scare quotes wherever applicable.

704
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,559
Speaker 5: Of course, Yeah, I think that they're just like pissy

705
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:29,480
and desperate. I mean to be honest, like I think

706
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,679
I think Vance. And it's funny because I, you know,

707
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,079
I have I have somewhat mixed, you know, feelings about Vance.

708
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,400
I'm a very like I'm one of those guys that's

709
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,840
been you know, I recognize that we've been constantly betrayed

710
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,320
over and over again by people that are supposed to

711
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,800
save us. And but I do I am on the

712
00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:52,559
somewhat pro Vance side. And the reason for that is

713
00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:56,079
because I think that you know, people will point to

714
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,719
like other like like personal you know hang ups that

715
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,719
he that he might have that would like Jade, his

716
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,280
vision of what American needs, like financial connections that he

717
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,840
has to very powerful you know, spot like you know,

718
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,079
power players in the American economics system, you know, especially

719
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:17,360
in big tech and all of that big finance. But

720
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,960
what I would say is that a lot, so many

721
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,400
of us, millions of us, have gone through a massive transformation,

722
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,400
and a lot of us kind of were radicalized, so

723
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,960
to speak, after the two thousand and eight crisis, and

724
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:35,599
so we basically like dissented from establishment politics altogether. So

725
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,519
many of us were Ron Pollyan types, and so we

726
00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:41,719
had that libertarian moment when we thought that the best

727
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,199
way to get rid of, you know, out of the

728
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:50,440
totalitarian characteristic of managerial democracy in America was to pursue

729
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:55,159
the libertarian pathways and to pursue private business and private

730
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,000
society and all of those mechanisms that could be used

731
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,840
as a shield to protect ourselves from power. And I

732
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,199
think people like JD. Vance connected with people like Peter

733
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,360
Teel and you know the guy who founded Twitter, I

734
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,039
forget his name. So like all those guys kind of

735
00:43:13,079 --> 00:43:15,039
went down that path as well, each in their own way.

736
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,360
And for some of us, we've realized that that's actually

737
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,199
completely untenable. You can't confront power by you know, leaving

738
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:27,079
the system. That's you have to confront power with power.

739
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,679
And I think we've all gone through that transformation, and

740
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,400
I think JD. Vance and others in his circles have

741
00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:35,760
also gone through that transformation, and maybe they're not quite

742
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,400
as radicalized as us. But I do know for a

743
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,239
fact that they have staffers and people in their ear

744
00:43:41,679 --> 00:43:46,039
that are our guys. They work, they operate within our circles,

745
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:48,599
they talk to us, they're in our group chats. So

746
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,679
I think that the Neo con concern about Vance is

747
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,679
a result of their own ineptitude and their own recognition

748
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,559
that they're on the way out. They have no popularity anymore,

749
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:04,599
and that Vance and some of the people that he

750
00:44:04,679 --> 00:44:09,719
operates with, including you know friends of mine, they they

751
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:17,400
actually are ideologically set on destroying the the residues of

752
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,679
neo conservative thinking in Washington, and so they're concerned that

753
00:44:23,159 --> 00:44:29,239
a Vance rise represents the complete liquidation of everything that

754
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,639
they've contributed to the American political system since the nineteen nineties.

755
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:35,599
And I think that's true. I think that Vance does

756
00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:40,920
represent that because Vance has connections to people on the

757
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,480
right wing that are much more resolute in their right

758
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:47,840
wingness compared to the people in Trump's circles. Trump is

759
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,760
opening a lot of doors, but the people that Vance

760
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,960
has on staff, including like Tucker Carlson's son, you know,

761
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,159
they're a lot more radicalized than Trump's staffers, except for

762
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,840
like maybe Stephen Miller or something. So I think that

763
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,320
advance does represent a very healthy trend. Now you could say, okay,

764
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,440
but he's got all these connections to very you know,

765
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:13,199
powerful people that don't have our best interests at heart. Well,

766
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:16,119
here's the thing. If you want to actually pay politics,

767
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,920
then you actually have to make compromises. You have to

768
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,159
actually deal with the reality of political structures and dynamics.

769
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:26,440
You can't pretend like you can have a political purity.

770
00:45:26,679 --> 00:45:29,239
That's the libertarian dream, and it's stupid to create a

771
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,679
right wing version of it. If you want to be realists,

772
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,880
if you want to actually engage with the state in

773
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,239
the nature of political dynamics as they currently exist, then

774
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,480
you have to open the doors to these types of people.

775
00:45:40,039 --> 00:45:43,039
Does that mean they're your allies forever? No, there's no

776
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,880
you know, there's no forever allies at all. But you

777
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,480
have to work with them. And politics is constantly flowing,

778
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,280
it's always in flux. Allies and enemies are changing hands

779
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,280
all the time, and there's no end to it. That's

780
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,519
the nature of political life. And so I think that

781
00:45:58,559 --> 00:46:00,639
we have to make these with these deals with these

782
00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:04,960
people temporarily to bias time, to build momentum, to create

783
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,320
a robust coalition, and to keep moving forward. And so

784
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,840
I do think that someone like Vance represents that for us,

785
00:46:11,079 --> 00:46:13,119
and he is good for us, and that's why the

786
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:14,679
neo cons despise.

787
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 4: Him slightly shipping gears. But you mentioned Stephen Miller, who

788
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,320
might be my favorite sort of super villain in training.

789
00:46:25,079 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 2: Right.

790
00:46:25,679 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 4: You could just imagine him, you know, screaming like that

791
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,800
that famous scene from you know, the movie about Hitler

792
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,880
and the fear of Unker, just demanding Trump to you know,

793
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,440
machine gun six thousand protesters or whatever. But nonetheless, this

794
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,360
does bring up, of course, the question of Minneapolis, right,

795
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:48,599
both the challenges to federal authority coming from their local

796
00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:52,840
politicians as well as you know, the anti ice riots. Uh,

797
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,280
this is sort of a layup, right, But why does

798
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,719
this matter, right, more than just the number of people

799
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,679
being deported? Why is the Trump administration pushing so hard

800
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:03,480
on this issue?

801
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: Right?

802
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,679
Speaker 4: Why does it Why is it important?

803
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 5: Why are they pushing so hard on the deportation.

804
00:47:10,039 --> 00:47:13,119
Speaker 4: Issue, specifically with regards to Minnesota.

805
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,039
Speaker 5: Well, I think that they, I think that they recognize

806
00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:24,199
that the nature of what's happening with what I call

807
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:30,559
replacement migration is it's extremely coordinated and organized, and so

808
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,039
hypothetically it's possible to bring the military in and just

809
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,679
you know, grab a bunch of people and deport them

810
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,639
and all that. That's that's one thing, and you know,

811
00:47:40,679 --> 00:47:42,519
there's a lot of there's some disappointment that more of

812
00:47:42,559 --> 00:47:45,480
that's not happening. I think there's reasons for that. But

813
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,199
at the end of the day, these these migrants that

814
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,239
are coming over in hordes are not doing this out

815
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,159
of their own initiative like they're described as like with

816
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,920
things like well they're coming from war torn areas or

817
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,840
their climate migrants, and they're because their own you know,

818
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,880
areas are no longer agriculturally sustainable and all these things.

819
00:48:06,039 --> 00:48:08,840
But actually they're being paid to come here. They're being

820
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,360
facilitated that someone's providing their boats and their clothes and

821
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,000
the planes and all of these things. And so you

822
00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:20,679
have to attack the organizations. And so Minnesota is ground

823
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,239
zero for a lot of this stuff, not only because

824
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,239
of its official government infrastructure, but also because of all

825
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,159
the charities and NGOs that are hosted there. I mean,

826
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,760
the Lutheran Church, the Catholic Church, all these charities adjacent

827
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,360
to those churches are all involved in this stuff, and

828
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,679
they're all headquartered in Minnesota. And so in order to

829
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,639
do this, you have to create severe pressure so that

830
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,880
these people basically cannot operate anymore, because you have to

831
00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:49,880
you have to cut off the snake at the head,

832
00:48:50,039 --> 00:48:53,440
and not just the consequences of the snake. You have

833
00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:56,079
to you have to go into the heat of battle

834
00:48:56,119 --> 00:48:59,760
and turn off the actual power mechanisms that are facilitating

835
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,519
these things. You have tens of millions of people that

836
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:07,840
are coming here that could not happen without international infrastructure,

837
00:49:08,039 --> 00:49:10,639
and so that international infrastructure has to be shut down.

838
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,119
And so I think if Trump has one legacy, it's

839
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:19,000
going to be that as people like Pete Hegseth and

840
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:22,800
others kind of work to reform the military, those types

841
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,039
of people can be deployed later in order to, uh,

842
00:49:26,119 --> 00:49:30,039
you know, help deportation continue to ramp up. But that's

843
00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:32,960
going to take decades. Like deportation, like I have a

844
00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:36,039
you know, one of my you know, biggest tweets from

845
00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:38,719
a couple of weeks ago, maybe a month ago, which

846
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,519
that deportationism has to become a way of life for

847
00:49:41,599 --> 00:49:44,800
America for the next hundred years. Our grandchildren are going

848
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,360
to be participating in the Deportation Department. So deportations are

849
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,840
not something that's going to last for the next administration.

850
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:52,639
It's going to have to become a way of life.

851
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:54,480
It's going to have to be part of our national soul.

852
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,000
We have an agriculture Department, we have the FDA, we

853
00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:00,679
have this big intelligence agents. Well, we're gonna have to

854
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,920
have a deportation agency. So deportations that are not something

855
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,079
that Trump's just going to one and done, figure it out.

856
00:50:06,119 --> 00:50:08,880
It's going to have to become part of the Western

857
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,199
way of life, like all all of Western Europe has

858
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,480
to take part in remigration. Remigrationism actually has to go

859
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:21,199
into our ideologically ideological complex. So I think what Trump's

860
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,480
doing is he's trying to shut down the organized characteristics

861
00:50:25,519 --> 00:50:28,559
of replacement migration. He's got to shut off the funding,

862
00:50:28,559 --> 00:50:31,639
he's got to shut off the incentive structures he's got

863
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:34,840
to send he's got to shut down the corruption complex.

864
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,559
All of that stuff is what he has to do,

865
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,599
and he's got three more years to do this. In

866
00:50:38,639 --> 00:50:41,960
every other major state. The hardest one is actually going

867
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,400
to be Texas in California. But the point is that

868
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,400
he has to keep going on this. So I don't

869
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:49,920
know if you heard me, but I think my internet

870
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,960
cut out, but I kept talking because it's privately recorded

871
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,079
so or you know, locally recorded. So basically my point,

872
00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:02,800
my point though is shoot, okay, well I'm gonna I'm

873
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:09,800
gonna keep trying, hopefully it'll reset here. Well, let me

874
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,119
finish my let me finish my thought. Though. So Trump

875
00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:16,079
has to shut down the organized components of this, and

876
00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:18,840
then that's going to set the groundwork for a multi

877
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,360
decade initiative to actually deport people. Formally, the deportations might

878
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,559
have to come in a few years, but shutting down

879
00:51:26,599 --> 00:51:31,559
the organizations, the incentive structures, the NGOs, the charities, that

880
00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:33,960
has to be the most important thing, because that's the

881
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,559
mechanism that the that the migrationists are going to use

882
00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:39,719
to fight back against trump Ism.

883
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 4: Well, and there's one other thing as well, which you know,

884
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,920
I think needs to be said that this is ultimately

885
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:52,159
a fight for legitimacy where if you, if you have

886
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:57,360
seeded the monopoly on violence, you aren't really in charge anymore.

887
00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:01,039
And you know, myself and many other have criticized the

888
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:06,079
administration for allowing their authority to be superseded by the judiciary. Right,

889
00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:10,440
that's an issue that needs to be solved. And somewhat similarly,

890
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,719
if you get chased out of town by you know,

891
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,280
effectively an insurgency, we're not really in charge anymore, or

892
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,599
at least in the same way. And so I think

893
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:24,679
as well that that's another element to this, which is

894
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:30,360
that the Trump administration must win in order to remain

895
00:52:31,679 --> 00:52:37,079
in legitimate political force. This is again existential for them

896
00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:40,000
in a way that simply, you know, two thousand versus

897
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,199
ten thousand or however many thousand people are or are

898
00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:46,360
not deported, It has become a question of do you

899
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,840
have the right to rule? And I think that's something

900
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,119
as well that needs to be mentioned.

901
00:52:50,599 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 5: M Yeah, no, I agree. I agree with that. That's

902
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,880
part of it too. It's like you got to legitimate

903
00:52:58,199 --> 00:53:01,559
your power here. I mean, that's that's part of I mean,

904
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:03,719
Oron McIntyre is really good on this issue. But like

905
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,039
nobody knows who's actually in charge here. I mean the

906
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:10,559
nature of the deep state, the regime is so decentralized

907
00:53:11,039 --> 00:53:13,599
and there's there's actually like almost no one on top

908
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,920
it kind of has this completely like entrenched, decentralized character

909
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,199
to it, and so that's exactly right. You have to

910
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,880
have a personality that says, actually, the system is not

911
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,679
in charge, I'm in charge. And and once that happens,

912
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,159
you know, politics is back.

913
00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:34,039
Speaker 4: So CJ, this has been a fascinating conversation. If people

914
00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:35,679
want to find more of your work, what's a good

915
00:53:35,679 --> 00:53:36,440
way for them to do that?

916
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the best way is just to follow

917
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,280
me on Twitter or x at Contra mordor. That's that's

918
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,199
basically the only thing I need to shill. I mean,

919
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,199
I'm doing all kinds of different projects, you know, regionally

920
00:53:48,679 --> 00:53:53,480
here in Tennessee with friends including Andrewisker and others. But

921
00:53:53,639 --> 00:53:57,000
that's that's where you'll find me, is X sure.

922
00:53:57,039 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 4: I will also link to your podcast with Andrew, which

923
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,000
is a ton of fun. I try to catch it

924
00:54:02,039 --> 00:54:04,400
when I can, so I highly recommend that. As far

925
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,639
as my stuff, the Jay Burton Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

926
00:54:07,639 --> 00:54:09,639
anywhere you want to listen to podcasts, we want the

927
00:54:09,639 --> 00:54:11,719
episodes early in d free. You could throw me a

928
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:16,000
few bucks on Patreon, Substack or gum Road. Look, guys,

929
00:54:16,039 --> 00:54:18,559
I know it's annoying. I don't like doing them, but

930
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,199
it's what I do, right. I gotta pay my mortgage

931
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:26,960
and soon my massively increased tax bill thanks to Abigail Spanberger.

932
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,159
No points for guessing. Additionally, you could check out our sponsor,

933
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,519
Axios Remote Fitness Coaching. JD's good at what he does.

934
00:54:34,599 --> 00:54:37,360
You should support him. He's a friend, both personally and

935
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,599
on a business level. Again, CJ, thanks so much, man,

936
00:54:40,639 --> 00:54:44,639
this was a ton of fun. Oh actually, one more

937
00:54:44,679 --> 00:54:46,559
thing I forgot. I'm supposed to tell you about this.

938
00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:49,159
I not you, CJ, the audience, but I guess if

939
00:54:49,199 --> 00:54:51,800
you want to know, you're allowed to listen. I have

940
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:56,199
an article coming out in the next edition of Chronicles magazine,

941
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,639
so if you want a physical copy, you can head

942
00:54:58,639 --> 00:55:01,920
over there get a subscription. It's well worth it, right,

943
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,559
A lot of friends right there.

944
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 5: Uh.

945
00:55:04,039 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 4: They put out good stuff consistently, so check it out

946
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,320
and when it becomes available, I'll be sure to link

947
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,320
it here. Again, c J. Man was a ton of fun.

948
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, thank you everyone at home.

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00:55:14,159 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 4: Keep your head up. I can't last forever. Good night.