Speaker 1: Welcome to episode five sixty nine of five and five.
Speaker 1: It is Friday, August sixth I am your host, Craig Goldstein,
Speaker 1: joined as usual by Patrick Dubuke and Jeffrey Petron Nostro.
Speaker 2: Why don't we start a standard Craig about you guys.
Speaker 1: Guys, it's meant yeah, well, I I apologize for any
Speaker 1: current and future performance problems. Today I was woken up
Speaker 1: three hours after I went to sleep by news that
Speaker 1: one of our cats had just peede on our bed.
Speaker 1: And so that's like a whole that's an emergency situation.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're aware of this.
Speaker 1: I'm not criticizing my spouse here. It legitimately is you
Speaker 1: got to change everything on the bed obviously immediately. And
Speaker 1: it like this has happened once before when there was
Speaker 1: a problem with like their litter box. There was not today,
Speaker 1: to be clear, but there there was a problem with
Speaker 1: it once before, and like she had done it while
Speaker 1: we were not in the bed, and it sat and
Speaker 1: like came real close to ruining the bed. Cat p
Speaker 1: is one of the most just one of the worst
Speaker 1: substances on Earth.
Speaker 2: I mean, the worst part about it is that like
Speaker 2: the first time it's a warning. But the second time
Speaker 2: you got to write it up right, Yeah, like three
Speaker 2: in the morning. Yeah, there's paperwork here. Yeah, three in
Speaker 2: the morning. I'm just going to sleep. At least, at least,
Speaker 2: I will say, Craig, at least you were woken up
Speaker 2: by being told that the cat had pete. Yeah, my
Speaker 2: wife by the cat, and my wife had a worse experience. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: I mean no doubt.
Speaker 1: But regardless, it's been a disjointed morning, let's say.
Speaker 2: After a disjointed week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, after after after more generally, yeah, which people people
Speaker 1: like I I by the way, I meant to say
Speaker 1: this before, but like shout out to the Discord.
Speaker 2: I love the Discord.
Speaker 1: I know I'm not in there constantly, but I do
Speaker 1: check it and it's great. So I I you know,
Speaker 1: they left us up.
Speaker 2: Patrick joined the Discord. I've forgotten how you're joined the Discord.
Speaker 3: I remember Flash five and dive.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah it is you.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the topic in there this morning.
Speaker 3: It's like OTP advice. And if you know the kind
Speaker 3: of people that are in that discord. One guy said, oh,
Speaker 3: I just started a league with one hundred teams and
Speaker 3: have it run fifty seasons and I look at it after.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that the OTV came up because I said,
Speaker 1: like I play it on her.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: It's like the Dodgers or whatever I want to be.
Speaker 1: I actually haven't played OTV in a while, but ye,
Speaker 1: but like I don't think I'm a look like people.
Speaker 1: People love restrictions, right, I mean it's like speed runs
Speaker 1: or whatever. Like my point was not to someone said
Speaker 1: it was like a flex and I didn't mean it
Speaker 1: to be one, but like people like the challenge.
Speaker 2: That is something people seek out.
Speaker 3: Craig training for games done quick.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is, but okay it is.
Speaker 2: It's a semi annual charity speed run event. Okay, everybody
Speaker 2: is very supportive, but.
Speaker 1: You know there's there's like doing things no, you know,
Speaker 1: people try and complete runs with no hits and what. God,
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know what's happening. Don't don't suck
Speaker 1: me into this world.
Speaker 2: Please.
Speaker 1: My point is people like restrictions as ways to challenge themselves. Right,
Speaker 1: So like this is not news and I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know why that gets anyone.
Speaker 2: I don't want to get into it. That's that's my banter.
Speaker 2: I suppose, yeah, and and and an.
Speaker 1: Apology for a rough start to the show. Jeffrey or Patrick,
Speaker 1: anything you want to bring to the table.
Speaker 3: So yesterday was back to school night. Oh wow, we
Speaker 3: made it. We made it through the summer. I never
Speaker 3: want to do this again. I don't have to do
Speaker 3: it twelve more times.
Speaker 2: Well, this is at a certain point. It won't be twelve.
Speaker 2: At a certain point they will just go in the
Speaker 2: room and ignore you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's fine, but I will say.
Speaker 2: That seven more times.
Speaker 3: They do three, they do three sessions or whatever, right,
Speaker 3: because like some people have multiple kids at the school, right,
Speaker 3: so you got to go, oh right, yeah sure. But
Speaker 3: like so we went to the early one, which apparently
Speaker 3: every single other family in the school. And this is
Speaker 3: like K through nine or K through eight, K through
Speaker 3: ader K, I don't remember. Okay, so it is not
Speaker 3: a very big parking lot. We'd park on the street.
Speaker 3: We're already running late. I realized when I got there,
Speaker 3: I don't know where the first grade classrooms are, Like
Speaker 3: I know where the kindergarten classrooms are, and I assume
Speaker 3: the first grade classroom, Like I don't go further into
Speaker 3: the school than that.
Speaker 2: The entrance and speaking of it, I.
Speaker 3: Didn't even think that as I assumed they were around
Speaker 3: the corner from the kindergarten classrooms. But it's not like signed,
Speaker 3: like there were no signs.
Speaker 2: Jeffrey School is actually a dungeon crawl. Yeah, and then
Speaker 2: each each grade you have to get a little further in.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's it's like meaning the hollow where there's no
Speaker 3: like yellow paint, is how you where you're going either,
Speaker 3: it turned out it was upstairs and then the kid
Speaker 3: decided she had to go to the bathroom before, so
Speaker 3: we were a little bit late for the for the
Speaker 3: first grade meeting. So it goes good. So does a
Speaker 3: kid go to school night?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the teacher and stuff like that, right, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: guess I'm.
Speaker 1: Thinking of the they do back to school night and
Speaker 1: then they have like the parents have to come back
Speaker 1: like pretty early on.
Speaker 2: Also, it's like a separate thing. I don't know, it's
Speaker 2: some school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, our parent teacher stuff is like more like actor.
Speaker 3: It's like pretty far into the year relatively sporking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta get a you gotta get a representative.
Speaker 3: Sample size, yes, of the kid of the kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't, you know, what like some babbit throwing off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like every kid is Jeff Frankore on
Speaker 3: Labor Day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. There's something I don't know. I
Speaker 2: feel like, for some reason, back to school, and I
Speaker 2: didn't involve our kid going back, but that seems weird
Speaker 2: now that I say it out. Yeah, so I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean we do start super early here too,
Speaker 3: and again before Memorial Day. I assume to avoid most
Speaker 3: of the hot weather, although it's been like one hundred
Speaker 3: and five for the last two weeks.
Speaker 2: Avoiding avoiding hot weather by going outside in August, got it? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 2: my My school does not start for I think three
Speaker 2: more weeks, which is good because I have to teach
Speaker 2: in three weeks. Actually I'll get like a week or
Speaker 2: two of grace spirit. But because I'm also decay and uh,
Speaker 2: it's a co op, so I have to teach a class.
Speaker 2: And last year I TAKECHD tests and it was easy.
Speaker 2: This year, I decided to play hard Bode like Craig,
Speaker 2: and I decided to invent a class to teach, which
Speaker 2: is I'm going to teach basically board game design. Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't know how to teach experience in board games.
Speaker 2: I have experienced playing board games.
Speaker 1: That's that's different than design.
Speaker 3: Is experience playing video games.
Speaker 2: So you know, I've got a vague sense of what
Speaker 2: I'm going to teach. Like we'll talk, we'll do probability.
Speaker 2: We'll spend you know, we'll spend a class talking about
Speaker 2: probability and the concepts of probability, right, and then we'll
Speaker 2: start talking about like what makes a game interesting? Right?
Speaker 2: What makes something something worth playing?
Speaker 3: Is this just an excuse to like have them play
Speaker 3: board games so you don't have to deal with them
Speaker 3: for part of the class.
Speaker 2: Well, no, God, it's worse when when kids like you'll
Speaker 2: have to manage them playing it, which is gonna be
Speaker 2: absolutely worse than just letting them play. But like, I'll
Speaker 2: just like basically, I'm definitely on this trip. I'm going
Speaker 2: on trip. But so by the way, guys, see you
Speaker 2: guys in two weeks. So I enjoy two weeks all
Speaker 2: of you without me. But I will have to spend
Speaker 2: some time like figuring out what it is. We're gonna
Speaker 2: spend nine hours in the in the next three months
Speaker 2: talking about well, figure out it'll be it'll be interesting.
Speaker 2: When I was when I was a teacher. I was
Speaker 2: a bad teacher. And one of the reasons why is
Speaker 2: because I needed to control every moment of the academic period.
Speaker 2: I felt like I had to float shart like literally
Speaker 2: every single thing that could happen. Uh, we are not
Speaker 2: doing that this time. It's going to be We're gonna
Speaker 2: everything's gonna be up in the air. So it'll either
Speaker 2: kill me or it'll be fine. On that note, it'll
Speaker 2: either kill me or it'll be fine is a.
Speaker 3: Good way to Patrick is taking a bunch of children
Speaker 3: into Katan and they will either die or for a
Speaker 3: very important place.
Speaker 1: On that note, let's go to our first subject, many
Speaker 1: early returns. We had some, uh, I guess let's look
Speaker 1: at some first starts, some first performances after the trade deadlines,
Speaker 1: same face, new place as sports Center way back.
Speaker 2: He used to put it ah with some rough starts.
Speaker 3: Jeffrey as a whole, the group did not.
Speaker 2: Much like this pod. I would say, some rough starts.
Speaker 3: We don't everyone has a trade deadline hangover.
Speaker 2: We don't know if Freddy pearls that was tainted by cat,
Speaker 2: but we don't it would have an effect. It would
Speaker 2: uh possibly course field had an effect although how long
Speaker 2: has it been since pitching it course has been bad
Speaker 2: because the effect of facing the Rockies is better than
Speaker 2: the effect of pitching it course. Like I feel like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm I don't think fantasy, and it
Speaker 2: seems like when when my pitcher was heading the course,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, sweet, two starts this week, I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, well, not except for Freddy Peralta. Yeah, you have
Speaker 3: seven runs in like four and a third, I think
Speaker 3: something like that.
Speaker 1: Some of that because it was the Rockies. As Patrick noted,
Speaker 1: the Rays did.
Speaker 3: Win this game, maybe, yes, I think, yeah, mate, they
Speaker 3: scored early. I think it's like seven to five at
Speaker 3: when he left, and they tied it and then won
Speaker 3: an extress. But yeah, like I again, if you assume
Speaker 3: the Rays have a plan for Peralta, they haven't had
Speaker 3: time to implement it. And they said to send him
Speaker 3: out to pitching course on extended rest too, because obviously
Speaker 3: they pulled him from his start on I think it
Speaker 3: was to start Friday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I guess, see that's why.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that's why they just sent him out, regardless
Speaker 1: they had the slot and he had he had been
Speaker 1: on a lot of rest. But all so, it does
Speaker 1: seem like you might want to do everything you can
Speaker 1: to avoid your new pitcher in the in the org,
Speaker 1: like throwing to a new catcher, Yeah, you know, going
Speaker 1: out there in course.
Speaker 3: Right, I mean the other option is usually just Ian Seymour.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if that's better or worse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or I mean for or yeah, or a bullpen
Speaker 1: day or something like that, but I don't that's also
Speaker 1: really just do a bullpen day in course is also.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a look they're gonna like so it's this
Speaker 3: will be a sort of like a recurring theme, right, like,
Speaker 3: especially for the rentals. I think almost everyone we're talking
Speaker 3: about our rentals. The you get one bad start, that's
Speaker 3: like ten percent of what you're getting out of the guy, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: but that kind of stuff does matter. But also you
Speaker 3: can't really control it. And you know it's the old
Speaker 3: they put their chips in. They're going all in with
Speaker 3: Freddy Peralta, and what happens next they have Look, they
Speaker 3: have some control over it, right, They can tell Freddy
Speaker 3: Parolta to throw this pitch more, or throw this that
Speaker 3: pitch less, or pitch into the sixth, which he certainly
Speaker 3: did in this game. But like we know, it's the
Speaker 3: old joke. She and variant swamps everything you can just
Speaker 3: like you got to get the guy and hope the
Speaker 3: guy pitches to the guy's career.
Speaker 1: Norm Yeah, I also think, like, like you said, it's
Speaker 1: ten percent, but it also the quality of every individual
Speaker 1: start ends up mattering more in a lot of ways, right,
Speaker 1: Like you can have the bad starts and then like
Speaker 1: if he's you.
Speaker 2: Know, like what it is over the.
Speaker 1: Like he actually does on average is less relevant than
Speaker 1: like can does he end up winning them a three
Speaker 1: to one game later?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: There's you know, like their WPA for that start was
Speaker 3: probably terrible, right, and well like his ray d R
Speaker 3: line on his Baseball reference page will be bad now
Speaker 3: pretty much regardless, Right.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 3: It doesn't really matter in this It's very right, you're
Speaker 3: not creating thirty two starts. And the other part of
Speaker 3: it too, is like they got into pitch in the
Speaker 3: playoffs and they're going to make the playoffs pretty much regardless, right,
Speaker 3: So it's going to be more than ten starts.
Speaker 1: As much as I call them frauds, it would be
Speaker 1: staggering to see them miss the playoffs at this point.
Speaker 1: They they if yeah, if they missed the playoffs.
Speaker 3: I honestly I know they mathematically can. I don't think
Speaker 3: they can.
Speaker 2: I don't think. I just I don't. I don't. I
Speaker 2: don't think.
Speaker 3: So, Like the third wildcard is two hundred five hundred
Speaker 3: right now?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, again, I staggering. It's probably understating.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, this would be the worst collapse in baseball history.
Speaker 2: Yes, well is it? I get Yeah? What's the gap
Speaker 2: be in? I don't understanding in front of it? Well,
Speaker 2: it was last year. I mean, technically they both made
Speaker 2: the playoffs, but the Tigers in the Guardians last year
Speaker 2: was like twelve games of their.
Speaker 3: It's about that.
Speaker 1: The Tigers made up ten games and it had been
Speaker 1: ten ten games before, so I don't it would be
Speaker 1: white that. But well they're oh there. I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: the seven en gap from the from the Yankees to
Speaker 1: the Rangers. They're four and a half up. It would
Speaker 1: be twelve games Patricks, So it would be it'll be close.
Speaker 2: The Guardians were fifteen and a half back in early July,
Speaker 2: ten and a half back at the end of August. Okay,
Speaker 2: so if you split the difference, it's about it would
Speaker 2: be about this point yeah, which is in fact that
Speaker 2: the Tigers managed to make the playoffs and then win
Speaker 2: a playoff postseason round. Like, it's so weird that we
Speaker 2: have to talk about those those things at the same time.
Speaker 2: I don't know, did the true playoff collapse is the
Speaker 2: ninety five Angels, sure, because they at least got bumped out.
Speaker 3: Part of right now is just the sheer number of teams.
Speaker 3: They're the one seed right now, right, the sheer number
Speaker 3: of teams, it would have to play significantly worse than
Speaker 3: down the stretch.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and also, well, you you're saying the Angel
Speaker 2: wasn't there wasn't there an Ale East one that was
Speaker 2: like ten eight games?
Speaker 1: Well, the Red Sox, right, yeah, that was the one
Speaker 1: where Dan Johnson the Rays.
Speaker 3: On the day they lost to the Orioles on a
Speaker 3: walk off too. In that game, Dan Johnson walked it
Speaker 3: off of the rais.
Speaker 1: But that was fewer games, but much fewer, much less time,
Speaker 1: much less time, right, it was like eight games in
Speaker 1: three weeks.
Speaker 3: That's like, do you do you consider like the Mets
Speaker 3: seven up with seventeen to play worse than it's very bad.
Speaker 3: I consider it very bad, to be clear, But that
Speaker 3: was also like it's a binary thing, right, They just
Speaker 3: got out played by a team for those seventeen games.
Speaker 3: The Rays have so many teams between them, they have
Speaker 3: so many outs here, right, Like, even if they played
Speaker 3: really badly down the stretch, besides the fact that like
Speaker 3: one of the Rangers, Mariners or Twins would have to
Speaker 3: catch them too.
Speaker 1: Right, right, and somehow Casey Miyes was worse. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: speaking of the former Detroit collapses, Casey Mice three and
Speaker 1: a third, nine hits, eight earned runs.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and this is two where like the Padres
Speaker 3: one two out of three in this series, I believed
Speaker 3: in the thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they won yesterday, So.
Speaker 3: Like it's things you'd like doin all three. This is
Speaker 3: the team you're directly chasing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, Mice, uh oh sorry, it was a
Speaker 2: four game set. They split it too well. Never I'll
Speaker 2: never get this right. So basically mys was okay through two.
Speaker 2: He gave up a run home into Timtawa. But then
Speaker 2: the third and the fourth inning, I think it's this
Speaker 2: third inning, the home and then fourth inning he just
Speaker 2: gave up He like allowed six reach in a row. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was it. Uh.
Speaker 3: I do wonder if we play the sort of like
Speaker 3: you know, soft factors here, like you're changing teams, you're moving,
Speaker 3: you gotta find a place to live for the rest
Speaker 3: of the season. You're working with a new catcher and
Speaker 3: new teammates, and you like you gotta then go out
Speaker 3: and try to pitch right, like directly in like a
Speaker 3: direct playoff, you know, more so than even peralta direct
Speaker 3: like meaningful game in August for the San Diego Padres.
Speaker 3: But also sometimes Kathy might is just gonna go three
Speaker 3: plus and give up seven rons.
Speaker 2: But it was a lot of singles. Sure, like it
Speaker 2: was like not grounders through the hole or anything, but
Speaker 2: like it was it wasn't It wasn't like there there
Speaker 2: was the one home run on what's kind of a
Speaker 2: mistake pitch, but like after that, it's just gonna happen.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get these sometimes in better news dustin May, Yeah,
Speaker 2: looked like good dustin May. Sure in Milwaukee, Yeah, the Brewers.
Speaker 3: Six innings, two runs, move on. Well, it's just like the.
Speaker 2: Brewers are just like how it feels like they've won
Speaker 2: sixteen games in a row and now I know it's
Speaker 2: the that's the Red Sox to me. But like every
Speaker 2: Brewers starter. Now just like six innings, two runs, Kyle
Speaker 2: Yerson came back and struck out ten over five did
Speaker 2: have to leave the game with both legs. He's yeah,
Speaker 2: Logan Henderson, Oh god, no, yeah, thank you your friend
Speaker 2: of mine. Logan Henderson six in two runs as well.
Speaker 3: Untradeable Logan Henderson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can see why. Yeah, it would be.
Speaker 2: It would be a fireable offense. Patrick, I do j
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're aware there was there was
Speaker 2: a comment left on on Jared Jared's piece. It was
Speaker 2: it wasn't like arguing with jareded really, it was just
Speaker 2: very good. I highly recommend people check out Chart's Peace
Speaker 2: the Kaleidoscope. I thought it was great.
Speaker 1: But but someone presumably a Brewers fan, said it would
Speaker 1: be a fireable defense if Matt Arnold had traded Logan Henderson.
Speaker 3: Look, I like he's been helpy for like fifteen minutes
Speaker 3: in the last three seasons.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to say this also, I don't know
Speaker 1: that I even have a problem with someone. If someone's
Speaker 1: point of view is I don't think they should trade
Speaker 1: Logan Henderson for a variety of factors, whether it's it's
Speaker 1: his quality, his team control the combination of those things. Whatever,
Speaker 1: it is not a fireable offense, Let's get a grip, Like,
Speaker 1: let's just get a grip. It is fine to say
Speaker 1: I don't want him to do it, I don't think.
Speaker 2: He should do it.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. Everything has to be as history onic
Speaker 3: as possible, like if my if my team makes my
Speaker 3: tummy anyway shape or for him, we need to fire
Speaker 3: the GM basically.
Speaker 2: And like I just I want to say this acknology
Speaker 2: and I don't even want to say I don't want
Speaker 2: to sound reticent in saying like acknowledging. But like Logan
Speaker 2: Henderson's really good, Like Patrick, No, I.
Speaker 3: Think you would certainly argue that, like I don't know,
Speaker 3: Luis Payana, Logan Henderson and Jet Williams would have been
Speaker 3: an over pay for Yes, yeah, I think the Dods,
Speaker 3: like even it's not a fireable effense that the Dodgers
Speaker 3: deal you can look at as an overpay too, but like, yeah,
Speaker 3: sometimes you have to overpay to get well what you
Speaker 3: want in a situation is.
Speaker 1: That Andrew Friedman quote, we're going to make deals where
Speaker 1: the value is underwater, but we want to because of
Speaker 1: the quality of the.
Speaker 2: Team that we have and what what it means for
Speaker 2: the postseason.
Speaker 1: And again he behaves that way, and I understand he's
Speaker 1: able to behave that way in a in a manner
Speaker 1: different than Milwaukee.
Speaker 3: I'nstraints. I don't argue need to operate that way. I
Speaker 3: think more than one should. Probably, Yes, I have.
Speaker 1: I have no problem with Milwaukee not wanting to trade
Speaker 1: Logan Henderson. I get and I think it's justifiable. It
Speaker 1: is also justifiable to to trade a schooble and thus
Speaker 1: not a fireable offence.
Speaker 3: Yes, I just want to put that. Well, that's the
Speaker 3: funny thing about it. This to me is and we
Speaker 3: talked about this a little bit on I think we
Speaker 3: talked about it some where in the Trade deadline show.
Speaker 3: Gotten to if I remember anything I.
Speaker 2: Said for I wouldn't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, if that is your attitude that like Logan Henderson,
Speaker 3: trading Logan Henderson for trek School is a fire leal offense,
Speaker 3: you should be way fucking more pissed about the dust
Speaker 3: and May trade and what they gave up. Like yeah,
Speaker 3: and I guess, like I don't know if like Ragsdale
Speaker 3: and Frius, just like you would think among Brewers fans,
Speaker 3: Freus and Ragdale would be bigger deals than they are
Speaker 3: based on their performance this year. But maybe I don't
Speaker 3: know if it hasn't gotten to the wider fan base,
Speaker 3: like they're gonna be top. I don't know if they're
Speaker 3: gonna make the one on one, but they're gonna be
Speaker 3: in consideration for it, certainly, right down to the wire.
Speaker 3: You treated two of them for Dustin May and Jojo
Speaker 3: Romero rentals, Like I know, Henderson is more of a
Speaker 3: sure thing in so much that he is on the
Speaker 3: Major League ross, healthy for now and pitching well. Like
Speaker 3: it's the same, it's the same math equation. It's just
Speaker 3: guys you haven't heard of yet, basically.
Speaker 1: Speaking of which I've I have not had a chance
Speaker 1: to read it. But there is apparently an article up
Speaker 1: on ESPN from Jeff Passing inside the school negotiating trade negotiations,
Speaker 1: why the Tigers chose the Dodgers, and there are there
Speaker 1: are some tidbits.
Speaker 3: There are some tidbits. You you've seen them, I've seen
Speaker 3: I've seen some training shots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is, Yeah.
Speaker 1: The one I've seen is, uh, the payroll gap apparently
Speaker 1: forces teams that do almost everything right, such as the
Speaker 1: Milwaukee and Tampa to spend their existence considering whether really
Speaker 1: really trying to win is worth it.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: The answer almost always is no, Yep, there you go anyway,
Speaker 1: Dustin may so tired.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the single gap doesn't need to be
Speaker 3: this big. It's the thing, right It being this big
Speaker 3: is a choice?
Speaker 1: Yeah, dust and make six innings, uh, three walks, five strikeouts,
Speaker 1: only three hits, let's good, it was and a hit
Speaker 1: by Patches as a complete Dustins like he's.
Speaker 3: Got a better field defense in front of him now,
Speaker 3: so that's gonna not that the Actually he might not
Speaker 3: even have a better Yes, I take that back.
Speaker 1: I mean Milwaukee's is very good turing versus Weatherholt and
Speaker 1: probably gotta go a Turing but not like Weather holds
Speaker 1: a slouch.
Speaker 3: Short verse win. But yeah, I will take win, but
Speaker 3: like it's not I would take win as a player
Speaker 3: for sure. I think he's a better defender too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, David Hamilton at third, I don't know, yeah, I
Speaker 1: also yeah. And then we have a series of Mets
Speaker 1: relievers making their debut.
Speaker 3: So you decided to trade for a Mets reliever, It
Speaker 3: probably didn't go great for you this week Brooks, Raley
Speaker 3: Gilpahome run to Brady House, a game tying home run
Speaker 3: against Brady House, then let the go ahead run in
Speaker 3: Later in that inning, Phillies tied it but then lost
Speaker 3: in extras because a lot of very uh Phillies can't
Speaker 3: be normal and God bless them for it. Stuff happened,
Speaker 3: including Josey Alvarado first and second, two out walking the
Speaker 3: next two batters, which is the thing you can do.
Speaker 2: Mm hm uh.
Speaker 3: In Minnesota, a j Mentor had been fine in his
Speaker 3: first two outings, but then give up home run, go
Speaker 3: ahead or go behind? I guess home run to Michael
Speaker 3: Massey that cost a Twins a game.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just shocking to me to find out
Speaker 1: the Royals are still playing baseball.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sure, And for some reason, the White Sox tried to
Speaker 3: in that already alluded to Red Sox White Sox game. Uh,
Speaker 3: the White Sox tried to get four outs from Hostcar Rasavon,
Speaker 3: four out saved from Hoscar Razavon. It did not go well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was was there? Not available? No?
Speaker 3: They used Taylor or they used Taylor and like the
Speaker 3: Andrew Miller fire man roll, and then they brought in
Speaker 3: braz Abahan. I think with a guy on third and
Speaker 3: two outs in the eighth, which is not like as
Speaker 3: someone that you don't Brama is not a strikeout guy,
Speaker 3: like you can just get it out there, He's going
Speaker 3: to give up contact in like a grounder could find
Speaker 3: a hole. They ended up backpicking the guy at third
Speaker 3: and they just told him back out for them.
Speaker 2: But he also didn't.
Speaker 3: He didn't like I think he threw a pitch, but
Speaker 3: like a couple of pitches, but like, yeah, but then
Speaker 3: he gave up two runs in the ninth to tie it,
Speaker 3: and then a bunch of other shit happened after that.
Speaker 1: Basically, oh boy, yeah that was That was a wild
Speaker 1: game and the Red Sox are unstoppable. Basically, the Red
Speaker 1: Sox trailed I think in almost every inning, like every
Speaker 1: half inning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they kept scoring runs when the White Sox scored more.
Speaker 3: Basically right right.
Speaker 2: I think they came back like five different times.
Speaker 1: And then there was Tarrek Scooble started against Chicago good,
Speaker 1: I mean, six strikeouts, six innings, two earned, but the
Speaker 1: second earned run was I forget.
Speaker 2: It was a little weird. How how a guy got
Speaker 2: on in the first place. I think but I know
Speaker 2: they scored.
Speaker 1: Nico Horner went after a high pitch high for Nico
Speaker 1: Horner anyway, and somehow topped it straight into the plate
Speaker 1: and then it just took a monster bounce and a
Speaker 1: run scored from third.
Speaker 2: Baltimore chop teams should be doing it more.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like the chop where it's like in
Speaker 1: front of the plate. It went straight off the plate
Speaker 1: and then just hung up forever.
Speaker 2: I take it back.
Speaker 1: There was some hard contact on him. They had runs
Speaker 1: at second, third, They threw a guy out at home the.
Speaker 3: Play before home run Dany Swanson in there, and he.
Speaker 2: Gave earlier home run to Swanson. But in general looked yeah, sure, yeah,
Speaker 2: you knows.
Speaker 3: Are playing better than they have recently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. And we can pretend that you could
Speaker 2: intentionally Baltimore shop like pitch has been back when pitches
Speaker 2: were sixty miles per hour, and you can you can
Speaker 2: do something to supposed to just desperately make contact. We
Speaker 2: still have that with bunting. We still think, oh, you
Speaker 2: should be able to bump perfectly no matter what the pitches,
Speaker 2: but we the Baltimore chop is gone.
Speaker 3: Are your left handed hitter try to Baltimore chop Jacob
Speaker 3: Mezowski's cutter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Dodgers will not make it to the plate
Speaker 3: before the ball is in the catcher's cloud. That's fine.
Speaker 2: Uh, the the Dodgers have lost six in a.
Speaker 3: Row, Yes, by the red stop. That's fair enough, everyone is.
Speaker 3: But yeah, and honestly, the Coups have been playing very well,
Speaker 3: been playing very well. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The Dodgers' playoff odds in the last seven days have
Speaker 2: been unchanged zero point zero difference. Yeah, it doesn't it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's matters.
Speaker 3: I guess home field throughout the playoffs, right, because the
Speaker 3: Brewers are now currently the one seed.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, and I think Atlanta is right there.
Speaker 1: Atlanta's ahead of them too, so they're the third seed
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I get it mattered. They didn't
Speaker 1: seem to care last time.
Speaker 2: Look, it's hard ruining baseball. You have to do that
Speaker 2: and win games at the same time. It's it's a
Speaker 2: lot to ask.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they're certainly ruining the baseball on the field.
Speaker 3: Oh jeez, I didn't realize Atlanta's back to twenty five over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, They've seventy wins. Dodgers have been stuck stuck on
Speaker 2: sixty nine. Yep for quite a while.
Speaker 1: We'll go on to our second segment and the reason
Speaker 1: we're doing this podcast at all. Jeffrey, is it it
Speaker 1: is fraud watch?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I did say it was me?
Speaker 2: Floor is yours? Yeah?
Speaker 3: So the Cleveland Guardians were stet by the Mets this week.
Speaker 3: I Look, I watched a lot of these games, mostly
Speaker 3: because I was curious about the new Mets bullpen. Look,
Speaker 3: I got to watch Christian Scott and Olan MacLean, which
Speaker 3: I try to do when I can. This Guardians team again,
Speaker 3: sort of like with Patrick and the Padres, like just
Speaker 3: not a team I paid a ton of attention to
Speaker 3: this year, and I expected them to be very much
Speaker 3: just the Guardians that we know. And I'm not going
Speaker 3: to say love because we don't. But this is a
Speaker 3: bad baseball team. Like I don't want to judge a
Speaker 3: team just off you know, the three game drop in, right,
Speaker 3: But there's like, outside of these three game there's a
Speaker 3: fair amount of evidence that this is a bad baseball team.
Speaker 3: I outside that they should have won the middle game
Speaker 3: of this set. They were they had two outs in
Speaker 3: the ninth and I think it was.
Speaker 2: Chio.
Speaker 3: I think six and thirteen since the Yeah, Brocchio bo
Speaker 3: a fairly easy ground ball from Ajau going to tie it.
Speaker 3: You know, the day before Gabriellarius made an error that
Speaker 3: eventually let three runs score. I think it was a
Speaker 3: three run homer in there, or a run in a
Speaker 3: two run homer. Idn even immediately DFA the day after,
Speaker 3: so like, yeah, that can be a little bit. And
Speaker 3: they lost like what thirteen to six yesterday and it
Speaker 3: could have been like twenty to six. That's left a
Speaker 3: million runners on base in the process. You can have
Speaker 3: a serial who just like everything goes wrong right, Like
Speaker 3: Rookio is a good defender, you've actually make that play.
Speaker 3: Arius is a good defender, especially I think it was
Speaker 3: playing third. You expect them to make that play, like
Speaker 3: but man, like I watch Slee Chacconi coming out of
Speaker 3: the bullpen repeatedly and just like what what what is
Speaker 3: going to Kate Smith ended up getting a blown save,
Speaker 3: which was a little unfair, but also we loaded the
Speaker 3: bases before that error happened.
Speaker 2: I just.
Speaker 3: The things you expect from the you know, the eighty
Speaker 3: seven win. Cleveland Guardian Division winner just doesn't seem to
Speaker 3: be there this year, you know, first and foremost like
Speaker 3: Hosey Ramirez not being good, but also like, yeah, the
Speaker 3: pitching in this series. We didn't include Foster Griffin and
Speaker 3: sort of the you know, early returns, but he did
Speaker 3: not have a particularly good start yesterday, they're still starting.
Speaker 3: Joey Cantillo and a baby had been better recently and
Speaker 3: was I thought he looked okay, and that started, he
Speaker 3: gave a bunch of homers, which was a problem and
Speaker 3: something he does do sometimes. But like they don't, you know,
Speaker 3: do you remember like the tweet like a few years
Speaker 3: ago that like you know, your favorite team can't do this,
Speaker 3: And it was just like a from like the Guardians,
Speaker 3: which is like a series of like seeing eye singles
Speaker 3: basically like they were really pumping the way they stuff.
Speaker 1: Their account got really pissy about like guards ball and
Speaker 1: we do it different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like that kind of stuff, like they don't
Speaker 3: they haven't been right like that's.
Speaker 2: And it's worse.
Speaker 3: It's worse like it, I think.
Speaker 1: And so like you said, Ari Scott d Fade, they
Speaker 1: traded one Brito years ago. Now they've traded Tenna. They
Speaker 1: like they had this this slew of up the middle
Speaker 1: interesting ish guys and basically Rochio can't hit. I know,
Speaker 1: he's kind of okay, like generally speaking, has not been able.
Speaker 3: To like it's gonna be Hanale just I think. And
Speaker 3: that's like they they found their guys.
Speaker 2: Eventually, right, They just brought up hanw.
Speaker 3: Ye on how Martinez is hanging around.
Speaker 2: To of course no longer a middle infielder.
Speaker 3: But yeah, of course, but like yeah, like Kazier Maras
Speaker 3: has been as good and like in some ways this
Speaker 3: is a better offense. They have more balanced offense.
Speaker 2: And it's more balanced for sure.
Speaker 3: Right with bringing in Adele and Low and like Adell.
Speaker 1: Have you guys know Stephen kwansops plus is up to
Speaker 1: ninety five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been really good recently. Yeah he had like
Speaker 3: a twenty five game on bas streak or something. He's
Speaker 3: getting back towards Stephen Kwan.
Speaker 2: He helped them unfortunately on the season.
Speaker 3: But it's just like this was like I'm watching them
Speaker 3: play the twenty twenty six Mets, and I'm like, hey,
Speaker 3: the Mets with the better baseball team in this series.
Speaker 3: And again it's not just one series. It's craigmuch and
Speaker 3: they're three and nine in their last twelve, six and
Speaker 3: thirteen since the All Star break, and like, I don't
Speaker 3: know where the look. Obviously Mesk and Williams didn't pitch
Speaker 3: in the series, and that was to the benefit of
Speaker 3: the Mets, but that's only forty percent of their rotation
Speaker 3: the rest of the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you looked at era, which is
Speaker 1: not necessarily the best way to do it, Like, no
Speaker 1: one has been bad, like outright bad out of outside
Speaker 1: of Chicane, who they replaced with Foster Griffin, Right, So
Speaker 1: if you look at it that way, like they're trying
Speaker 1: to shore up their.
Speaker 2: The issue.
Speaker 1: You know, Joey Cantillo walks too many guys but also
Speaker 1: misses more bats than everyone in their rotation except Kevin Williams. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, Gavin Williams. I think this
Speaker 1: team could look better than you're saying, Like, again, you
Speaker 1: missed their two best starters. It is only two starters,
Speaker 1: but it is their two best starters. And if you
Speaker 1: judge a lot of teams by their three through five
Speaker 1: members of the rotation, they're gonna look pretty bad.
Speaker 3: A lot of those pictures have him beating the Mets
Speaker 3: this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do think like Williams seems to be
Speaker 1: his last couple starts, like in one of the he
Speaker 1: gets in a groove sometimes where he just doesn't give
Speaker 1: up hits.
Speaker 3: He's walking fewer guys this year too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, he's been really good on balance, but
Speaker 1: he he looked like a cy young guy. I remember
Speaker 1: Matt true Blood wrote an article about some of the
Speaker 1: changes he made early on in the season.
Speaker 2: He looked really, really good, and he's been good, just.
Speaker 3: Not yeah, like like, I think he was probably a
Speaker 3: little bit hit lucky last year too, in the season
Speaker 3: where you know, he led the league in walks and
Speaker 3: still had a.
Speaker 1: Sure But I'm just saying, let's let's run down his
Speaker 1: last five starts. Okay, I'll start with the furthest back
Speaker 1: seven innings, eleven strikeouts, one walk, six innings, eleven strikeouts.
Speaker 2: No walks.
Speaker 1: He did give up five earned but still seven innings,
Speaker 1: eleven strikeouts, no walks, seven innings, twelve strikeouts, one walk.
Speaker 1: And then against Arizona before this series, five and two thirds,
Speaker 1: ten strikeouts, one walk.
Speaker 2: He's on at the eater like that is.
Speaker 1: That's five What is the record for consecutive starts with
Speaker 1: double digit strikeouts and one or fewer walks, Like that's
Speaker 1: let's get opta on that please, Like that's that's a hell.
Speaker 2: Of a run.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just looking at like a year. You're eated
Speaker 3: three point oh six rr last year, so it wasn't
Speaker 3: under three but close enough, right, Like, it's he's given
Speaker 3: up a few more home runs, but not a ton more.
Speaker 3: It's mostly you know, it's it's strand rate. His strand
Speaker 3: rate has gone from eighty four percent to a more
Speaker 3: normal seventy six percent. I think he's probably pitched better
Speaker 3: this year, right, Like, Yeah, I assume all his expected
Speaker 3: stats are better than they were last year, since he's
Speaker 3: striking out more guys and walking fewer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, just you look at again, if you
Speaker 1: want to look at something as advance quote unquote, but
Speaker 1: a basic advance metric like FIP, and he's got a
Speaker 1: three four FIP this year and it was four three
Speaker 1: nine last year.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's going to be full run lower.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's going to throw fastballs to the top of
Speaker 3: his own and they're not quite at the top of
Speaker 3: his own. They're going to get head out of the
Speaker 3: park every once in a while, like he is going
Speaker 3: to be a little homer prone, but you know, you
Speaker 3: take that sort of in the as part of the
Speaker 3: total package. You just accept he's going to have a
Speaker 3: home run for nine rate over one. It's the way
Speaker 3: it goes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, like I I hear you.
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't really want to argue in favor
Speaker 1: of the Guardians.
Speaker 3: Especially after they got swept by the Mets, especially if they're.
Speaker 2: That's swept by the Mets. But like I I don't know,
Speaker 2: I agree it's not.
Speaker 3: A good team, right, They're still I think actually their
Speaker 3: one game half game better better than they look in
Speaker 3: that sure, but they've they've also six or thirteen in
Speaker 3: their last right, Like it's absolutely it's becoming a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Then there's the Mariners, say, yeah, yeah, they they
Speaker 2: are about to celebrate their fiftieth anniversary team and they're
Speaker 2: celebrating it in the most Mariners way possible by bringing
Speaker 2: us back to the early Mariners thubs. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty two, nineteen eighty three Mariners going on
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 3: Again, Like they're you know, uh, game and a half
Speaker 3: out of the wild Card and three behind the astros
Speaker 3: and it feels like they will be all yeah, it
Speaker 3: does feel like this is the this is just where
Speaker 3: it is they did for you from I'm gonna watch
Speaker 3: Mitch Garver.
Speaker 2: Though, yeah they were. Mitch Garver is out, Rob Refsnider
Speaker 2: is out. I'm not sure, like well you know why now? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Why not a month for four months ago? But uh yeah,
Speaker 2: Taylor word. But then Luke Greyley also out for the year,
Speaker 2: like instantly, I think he was actually basically done before,
Speaker 2: but he like the man is gonna make him play
Speaker 2: on it because they didn'tyone else to play. And yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, Johnny Parade is up, so you got your
Speaker 2: thirty year old career backup catcher Weston Wilson still on
Speaker 2: the team, like yeah, back Brendan Donham in his back.
Speaker 1: Yes, we throughout that that podcast. Yeah, we kept saying
Speaker 1: like they're waiting on him. It was ours the day
Speaker 1: before we posted.
Speaker 2: But like JB. Crawford's still out, so cold Emerson in
Speaker 2: his twol one batting average and two sixty ovp are
Speaker 2: still in the lineup, and.
Speaker 3: This is the pitching hasn't been quite as good as
Speaker 3: you'd have hoped sort of, I think probably like with
Speaker 3: the Guardians, right, Like the Eras don't look awful, but
Speaker 3: based on the quality of picture, you'd expect them all
Speaker 3: to sort of be a little bit better.
Speaker 2: Logan Gilbert leaves starters in strikeouts per nine at nine
Speaker 2: point four.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was not. That's not like what you think
Speaker 3: of the Maritors, right, you think of a lot of
Speaker 3: guys throwing five innings the game but striking out seven
Speaker 3: in those five hittings.
Speaker 2: Right. And also, it's not like the defense on this
Speaker 2: team is good. So if you've got you've got all
Speaker 2: these pitchers who are suddenly giving up more contact and
Speaker 2: it's going to you know, seven guys.
Speaker 1: George Kirby I think is the biggest issue. Sure, if
Speaker 1: we're talking about the rotation, like and and he hasn't
Speaker 1: been outright bad, but he this is a guy who
Speaker 1: was a dark horse for the cy Young repeatedly, like
Speaker 1: a lot of people really liked him.
Speaker 2: I really liked him.
Speaker 1: But like he there's he had two seasons where his
Speaker 1: walks per nine were basically one right where he led
Speaker 1: the league. Last year it was two point one. This
Speaker 1: year's one point nine. One point excuse me, but like
Speaker 1: that's double. Yeah, essentially, and and he's losing strikeouts. Last
Speaker 1: year he was up closer to ten. This year he's
Speaker 1: at eight. So like he kept the walks and lost
Speaker 1: the strikeouts and and.
Speaker 2: Still leads the league and hits aloud, which he did
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: But because he was right you see, he's always around
Speaker 1: the zone. Yeah, I mean, I guess he's always around
Speaker 1: the zone.
Speaker 2: Right, Like you do have to wonder if he was
Speaker 2: one of the pitchers who most got punished by the
Speaker 2: by the the rise and Wikes walked around the read
Speaker 2: because of Maybes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I
Speaker 2: don't I don't think there's a good answer. Like I
Speaker 2: the thing is that like the Mariners, we're talking about
Speaker 2: trading one of these guys and Kirby's name did come up.
Speaker 2: They don't have anyone to backfill, and well they have
Speaker 2: Kate Kate Anderson. But Kate Anderson is gonna have to
Speaker 2: fill for like em, we're staying cock next week, right,
Speaker 2: like somebody will be injured between now and when the
Speaker 2: podcast goes up, because that's how the Mariners have gone
Speaker 2: this year. It's you know, yeah, right, they call Kate Anderson.
Speaker 3: The starters have been a little bit worse than last year.
Speaker 3: The all has been a little bit worse than last year,
Speaker 3: and the offense has been a lot.
Speaker 2: Worse and the bench and the bench has been exposed,
Speaker 2: which it feels like it should every year. This year
Speaker 2: in particular, it's feeling very exposed. Yep. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 2: with Donovan Beck if he I don't think he's a
Speaker 2: you know, one thirty ops plus guy like he's he
Speaker 2: wasn't a small sample, but like the competency will will
Speaker 2: do a lot for this team. Yes, it with cal
Speaker 2: and Josh Naylor are both hitting the way they are,
Speaker 2: I don't team can.
Speaker 3: And Julio hasn't. We keep talking about like a second
Speaker 3: half Julio, but now we're at like third third Julio.
Speaker 3: Now her fourth quarter Julio, and it's still a one
Speaker 3: fourteen Yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is this is where he did
Speaker 1: that one year he did take off was like just
Speaker 1: August was one of the most scendiary things seen. But
Speaker 1: we're also a week into August now, and look.
Speaker 3: The main reason I'm calling them fraud is they couldn't
Speaker 3: get a run off Drew Anderson and then lost fourteen
Speaker 3: nothing yesterday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's I think the Tigers, we don't
Speaker 1: have this as as sure a subject, but like the
Speaker 1: Tigers and Orioles are both a game out of a
Speaker 1: playoff spot.
Speaker 3: Right now, I mean selling.
Speaker 1: There was some discussion in the comments of Maddie Maddie's
Speaker 1: piece on the Rutchman trade from Baltimore Folks, and it
Speaker 1: was like pleasant discussion, to be clear, but like there
Speaker 1: was kind of a sentiment that like on a on
Speaker 1: a production and timeline aspect, like trading Rushman wasn't as
Speaker 1: big a deal as it, like that the Oriels weren't
Speaker 1: really taking as big a step back as as it
Speaker 1: kind of seemed. And I don't know that I agree.
Speaker 1: I understand where they're coming from.
Speaker 3: Right, he's not playing right now, right, so it's like
Speaker 3: he's not playing, which.
Speaker 1: Is part of their argument was that like he's not
Speaker 1: on the field and it's not clear when he's going
Speaker 1: to be on the field, which is absolutely fair and
Speaker 1: but but you know, like they also traded Tailor Ward,
Speaker 1: who was I don't even I'm not gonna I'm not
Speaker 1: really gonna try and defend Tailor Ward, but like he
Speaker 1: was their one productive outfielder.
Speaker 2: I don't it wasn't great production. I don't like the
Speaker 2: shape of the product, but he was the one like
Speaker 2: it's hard to say this wasn't selling on the season.
Speaker 1: Now you can sell in the season and the al
Speaker 1: is so bad, right, that's the thing that it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: Like you don't I don't.
Speaker 3: Think you get to use that argument when you're three
Speaker 3: games under five hundred and still in a playoffs, right,
Speaker 3: Like you don't get to say, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's particularly they were insane. It was actively like not.
Speaker 1: They were just kind of saying like this is over selling,
Speaker 1: like they're not going into a rebuild. Which if you
Speaker 1: want to quibble with rebuild and say it's a reset
Speaker 1: or reload or you know whatever, I think that's fine
Speaker 1: if you prefer one of them.
Speaker 3: To say that, But like, what are they going to
Speaker 3: say when they trade Gunner Henderson this offseason? Then do
Speaker 3: you get to say it the rebuild like this is
Speaker 3: a probably probably yeah yeah, but this is like, you know,
Speaker 3: there's some noise here, but there's some signal here too,
Speaker 3: right of what what that plans are.
Speaker 2: It can be both a good trade and also feels
Speaker 2: the Rustman trade especially felt like an off season trade. Sure,
Speaker 2: it's it's the sort of deal you make in the
Speaker 2: off season where you're like, we are going to we
Speaker 2: have looked, we have the we have all the time
Speaker 2: to evaluate, and we have decided this is the direction
Speaker 2: we need to go. When these things come together in
Speaker 2: two days of the deadline, it does not feel like
Speaker 2: it could still be the right move.
Speaker 3: I think some of it if they got the Red
Speaker 3: Sox to pay a premium here, Yeah, because Rushman for
Speaker 3: the rest of the season, and you know in a
Speaker 3: situation where the where those additional wins that he gives
Speaker 3: you over Connor Wong are going to be very meaningful,
Speaker 3: and it.
Speaker 2: Could be just a price because he's healthy for the playoffs,
Speaker 2: which seem very like if they seem in a very very.
Speaker 3: Good position for the place Crochet is throwing now too.
Speaker 2: So it's just never going to feel for Baltimore on
Speaker 2: these kind of traits like this was part of a
Speaker 2: calculated visionary plan.
Speaker 3: And as you can.
Speaker 2: I do want to be clear the commenters were not
Speaker 2: arguing that, but I've seen so about it, like it's
Speaker 2: just kind of like I get it. I get how
Speaker 2: you can react that way about it.
Speaker 3: It's just you can say, like we're gonna like this
Speaker 3: is just you know that we took the deals on
Speaker 3: the table, and I know your GM is, Like, I
Speaker 3: know your GM is, Come on now, this was You've
Speaker 3: also got the owner saying I spent three times as
Speaker 3: much money to lose more games. So that's always something
Speaker 3: you want to hear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he did say something about how it's
Speaker 1: like a civic responsibility to try and win, which I
Speaker 1: guess you would want to hear. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you want to believe I would say it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know you're Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think the other part of it for me was
Speaker 2: I don't think you can take this trade in a vacuum. Sure, right,
Speaker 2: like Michael Lias.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's unfair to say Michael Ias prefers
Speaker 1: to rebuild strong, but the cashing in the prophect. He
Speaker 1: does not want to be on the other side of
Speaker 1: this trade, right.
Speaker 3: He wants to get you know, the eighteen years of
Speaker 3: control of the two pictures in India Zokar.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, well that's what I'm saying, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: think he wants to be on the other side of this,
Speaker 1: and he missed his windows and so when you trade
Speaker 1: Adlie Ritchman. Whether he's on the field or not at
Speaker 1: the time, and whether most of his bounce back season
Speaker 1: happened in April or not, it is just because of
Speaker 1: who he is. It is symbolic, right, he was the
Speaker 1: one one.
Speaker 2: He was the start of this when his arrival, When
Speaker 2: when he arrived, it was there the beginning of their ascension.
Speaker 2: It is. And I'm not saying that part matters more
Speaker 2: than the on field part. It doesn't, but it's part
Speaker 2: of it. It's part of the context of the move
Speaker 2: and whyatt feel, you know, whyat why we wrote what
Speaker 2: we wrote in a lot of ways. You know.
Speaker 3: The other part of it too is like for all
Speaker 3: his you know, consternation about by trades and things like that,
Speaker 3: like if he has been as he claims, you know,
Speaker 3: keeping staying up at night thinking about his prospects. You
Speaker 3: should all don't know which prospects of trade in the
Speaker 3: by trades. And look the Corbyn Burns trade there. They
Speaker 3: did not get burned on that, right, No, Like Burns
Speaker 3: came in was very good. I know we didn't. You know,
Speaker 3: he pitched well in the playoffs in the one game
Speaker 3: that he pitched, and like everything and like Joey ortiz
Speaker 3: Is had won pretty nice. You know, I was a
Speaker 3: bench guy in d L Halls or Relieve they can't
Speaker 3: stay healthy and all those weeable when they made the trade,
Speaker 3: if you were ironically though.
Speaker 1: The smaller move that they may I mean not that
Speaker 1: it's really I think it's worked out for both sides, right,
Speaker 1: But the Trevor Rodgers looked really bad at first, and
Speaker 1: then he traded Kyle Stowers was good and it's been fine.
Speaker 1: Now Rogers has been more than good enough. Sure since
Speaker 1: the rough start to compensate for that. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like he's killing the smaller trades where he's
Speaker 1: where where they're giving up kind of the less premium
Speaker 1: prospects for less premium guys and making something out of it.
Speaker 2: Right, So I don't know. But I also think, like
Speaker 2: we haven't talked about Detroit that much, but like, if
Speaker 2: Detroit makes the playoffs, is it a victory for Scott
Speaker 2: Harris or does it look more foolish than keeping I'm serious,
Speaker 2: Like what makes the playoffs? In one sense, if they
Speaker 2: get bumped in the first round, it's going to look pretty.
Speaker 1: Bad, right, Well, right, I guess I guess that that's
Speaker 1: the answer is it depends what they do. But is
Speaker 1: that fair if it's all post talk, Like, is that fair?
Speaker 1: I mean they here's the thing about your point. They're
Speaker 1: a game back and they have a plus eighty run deferential.
Speaker 1: Everyone ahead of them is essentially minus thirty or work.
Speaker 3: The Tigers were probably better enough than the rest of
Speaker 3: the team in this wildcard race that they could lose
Speaker 3: their two starting pitchers, their two best starting pitchers this
Speaker 3: year and id even what you think about Troy Melton
Speaker 3: and still be better than the teams around them for
Speaker 3: the third wildcard spot, right, especially after calling up Max Clark,
Speaker 3: I think to supplement that out guild, Like I don't
Speaker 3: think it, But what it does do is they're going
Speaker 3: to go into a playoff series with Troy Melton and
Speaker 3: Kyder Montero.
Speaker 1: Right well, I think they're going to go into a
Speaker 1: playoff series health pending with Troy Melton and Jackson Job
Speaker 1: and River Ryan.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: How many?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: How many innings? Like if you want to use Jackson
Speaker 3: Job and River Ryan as part of like you know,
Speaker 3: pitching chaos with Brent Herder and Kyder Montero, like fine,
Speaker 3: and they might they can do it. And look, that's
Speaker 3: but they could have done that anyway for Game three
Speaker 3: behind Schooble and Myze, right, like, if they wanted to.
Speaker 3: I think it is going it. Look, not having Terry
Speaker 3: Scoobel and Casey ma is going to impact their ability
Speaker 3: to make a deep run in the playoffs if they
Speaker 3: get there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, let's take a break and we'll
Speaker 1: be back with the rest of the show. We're back
Speaker 1: with episode five hundred and sixty nine of five and Dive.
Speaker 1: We are on our third segment, Slow news week.
Speaker 3: Mh, it hasn't been a slow news week, but no,
Speaker 3: there's been some stuff though. There has been some stuff.
Speaker 2: I want to start with the second.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll get the exact quote.
Speaker 2: Then that is that well, because Jeffrey, that is this
Speaker 2: is to me, Yeah, the essence, ye the soul of
Speaker 2: slow news weeks. And also and also such a good
Speaker 2: summary of how baseball players yeh think, yes, how they
Speaker 2: behave with each other. Weird mythos of the this is
Speaker 2: this not rock it's just close to baseball gets And
Speaker 2: then one of the reasons why is that it's not
Speaker 2: trying to be funny. No, I think it is.
Speaker 3: If you look at showed Himna's face in this photo,
Speaker 3: and he is a big grin on his face. He's like,
Speaker 3: you want to see the photo?
Speaker 2: Here? Does see the photo? Also, you want to know
Speaker 2: what I have for breakfast today? Like, I'll just tell
Speaker 2: you some facts.
Speaker 3: So anyway, at foul Territory TV showed him. Monaga credits
Speaker 3: success in his past nine starts to changing his phone
Speaker 3: lock screen to this photo of Ben Brown on the
Speaker 3: training table, which he calls Lucky Benjamin cry laughing emoji.
Speaker 2: Jeff, I I would ask when you post this if
Speaker 2: you could link.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I won't put it to the photo. I will
Speaker 3: describe it. It's just like Ben Brown, like face down
Speaker 3: on one of those little like toilet toilet seat shaped
Speaker 3: massage headdress.
Speaker 2: It's where you put your face.
Speaker 3: It's where you put your face when you're getting their.
Speaker 2: Massage in your back or whatever. Uh it is. It's
Speaker 2: a but yeah, this is just this is dude's rock
Speaker 2: to me. Yeah, this is, by the way, Lucky Benjamin
Speaker 2: good friends with Sleepy Pete. Yeah. What about spooky heat,
Speaker 2: spoaky spooky heah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love this, not Lucky Ben, it's Lucky Benjamin
Speaker 3: makes it fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, Uh, I have nothing else sad at.
Speaker 1: The first item was Ronald Rakunya Homer's off to Marlins.
Speaker 2: H and as as our doc says.
Speaker 3: No, not like that, but also but he did have
Speaker 3: two home runs. He did have two home runs off.
Speaker 3: One of them was off to Marlin's outfielders.
Speaker 2: Yes, well it was really off one outfielder, but.
Speaker 3: Did not get like the full like pinball, like tilt.
Speaker 3: I feel like he like hit.
Speaker 1: No, Patrick, you asked a philosophical Yes, I did, and
Speaker 1: I thought I thought it was valid.
Speaker 2: For the show. It's really like because when I watched it,
Speaker 2: I had a particular reaction, and I'm curious how many
Speaker 2: people had my reaction, how many people have the reactions. Basically,
Speaker 2: if you took then if you filed off the names
Speaker 2: and the teams and just saw this animation as just
Speaker 2: like a thing, a baseball thing that happened, like if
Speaker 2: you saw it like a high school game between two
Speaker 2: teams you didn't care about, are you more likely to
Speaker 2: be excited that the thing happened or feel bad for
Speaker 2: the two outfielders that it happened. Because I watched it
Speaker 2: and I went, oh, those poor guys.
Speaker 3: I actually do feel I feel a little bit bad
Speaker 3: because they.
Speaker 2: Were both making the good conversion.
Speaker 3: Better communication there probably, yes, but like that was a.
Speaker 2: Spot where it was actually like above average defense for
Speaker 2: either of them to get to there, like it was
Speaker 2: in the gap. And so it's like, oh, I did
Speaker 2: show the clip after you asked that, Patrick, I shared
Speaker 2: the clip to my wife and her her reaction was
Speaker 2: ultimately feel bad for the app y. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: also it looks like it hurt, right, Like there's that
Speaker 2: that already she did.
Speaker 1: She did say, like, I do feel bad for them,
Speaker 1: but they are professionals and they're supposed to they're supposed
Speaker 1: to be able to communicate, and.
Speaker 3: That probably game right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I think I I think on this one,
Speaker 2: if we did a poll, I can feel bad would win?
Speaker 2: I think so too. I think I think because.
Speaker 3: It's not funny enough. It's not like hitting off Jose's head, right,
Speaker 3: It's just she.
Speaker 1: Did delight in Ronald mccunya just stopping at first base,
Speaker 1: being like.
Speaker 2: Yes, that was good, that was good. Like I don't
Speaker 2: trust this, but like if it weren't for the injury factor,
Speaker 2: then because you know, when you know, when when you
Speaker 2: see Jose can say to be hit in the head.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, did he actually crack his skull? Like
Speaker 2: is there damage here? It was just like yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: You need you need both the players to hop up
Speaker 2: and give the thumbs up, you know, and then then
Speaker 2: like okay, all right.
Speaker 1: Speaking of hopping up, Yes, Jeffrey on this year, he
Speaker 1: sure is h He's that a long road.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's an incredible backstory and.
Speaker 5: A lot of time.
Speaker 2: I did see someone say he stopped playing for five years,
Speaker 2: but he's been was that well before because he's been
Speaker 2: pitching the story in the Dominican Winter Leagues and stuff.
Speaker 3: Yes, so like, uh, I forget the Diamondbacks Org. I
Speaker 3: think I don't remember exactly, but basically they wanted to
Speaker 3: send him back to the DFL for a third year.
Speaker 3: He just left the team to become a roofer and
Speaker 3: then like he was pitching semi pro. I think he
Speaker 3: was probably pitching a winter ball too, but didn't get
Speaker 3: back into like affiliated baseball Okay, So it was affiliated
Speaker 3: ball okay, and that has like he's bounced around. He
Speaker 3: was with the Rockies. I think last year the Mets signed. Look,
Speaker 3: he's been he deserves to me up. He's striking out
Speaker 3: twenty batters for nine in triple A. Like, yes, he
Speaker 3: throws one from the left side with a good slider,
Speaker 3: like this is is it that hard? I always yeah,
Speaker 3: oh yeah he was. He might have been a little amped,
Speaker 3: but it's it's gonna be up nineties. And but if
Speaker 3: you know about Jeffrey On, you know about him for
Speaker 3: his strikeout celebration, which he does every single time he
Speaker 3: gets a strikeout. Not only that, if he gets two
Speaker 3: strikes on a batter, he starts doing it after every
Speaker 3: pitch in case it is a strikeout, you' mi. He
Speaker 3: is in mid air when the ball is hit. When
Speaker 3: it he wouldn't made it to make a play on it,
Speaker 3: but there was one up the middle for a base hit,
Speaker 3: but he was. He gets like yeah, he is the
Speaker 3: probably the best argument for pictures as athletes because he
Speaker 3: had like the hops on it. The actual way he
Speaker 3: gets there is impressive.
Speaker 2: And now here's my reaction, and this this is more
Speaker 2: an indictment on me than anything, is that there can
Speaker 2: be metrics about this, right, I want to say the
Speaker 2: aging curve is demonstrated by the height, yes that he
Speaker 2: gets on these jumps because as he hits.
Speaker 3: With the Hawkeye. How high he's getting.
Speaker 2: Those are cameras, Yeah, they can, they can absolutely measure that.
Speaker 2: I mean, we're getting released release, we can definitely get.
Speaker 3: So he did, he did get. He did get two
Speaker 3: strikeouts in the inning and did the Uh. The best
Speaker 3: way I can describe it is a pre fight animation
Speaker 3: from a tech and video game. Basically, he jumps.
Speaker 1: Up, there's a very animated elements how he lands. Yea,
Speaker 1: it's not quite the superhero landing like, but when they
Speaker 1: launch into a like before a fight, but it's it's Yeah.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine the discourse that will happen the first
Speaker 2: time somebody with two strikes hits a comebacker?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I mean I don't. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't caricature, but I don't.
Speaker 3: I think it just I do think there is at
Speaker 3: this point, there is the best one.
Speaker 2: Until until there's a fight, like like someone will get
Speaker 2: there will be We were red asked about that.
Speaker 3: We have been discussing, like what what game and team
Speaker 3: it will happen. My current pick is next week against
Speaker 3: Matt Chapman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a long tough season alone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Tello, I don't think has a leg to
Speaker 3: stand on here as a college coach, though, because all
Speaker 3: the dumb stuff they do, they're also the ones that
Speaker 3: are so for Gilbert the one that like got ejected
Speaker 3: from the umpire had to like push him up the
Speaker 3: first baseline when he was a Vitello because he was
Speaker 3: like watching the home run.
Speaker 2: Uh so.
Speaker 3: That's the they did prep Keith Hernandez. But what was
Speaker 3: going to happen, but he was aware of it.
Speaker 2: When I was what was Keith's reaction?
Speaker 3: Keith was like he's like before he Keith was not
Speaker 3: happy about the existence of this thing. But then Gary
Speaker 3: asked him like, well have you seen It's like, I
Speaker 3: don't know what it actually looks like. But he was
Speaker 3: just like he like a little some old man grumbling.
Speaker 2: There would be a good article about the reaction.
Speaker 1: I just feel like I feel like Keith would experience.
Speaker 2: Real grief over this.
Speaker 3: I think I think he probably is, like it.
Speaker 1: H it hurts, it hurts him.
Speaker 3: My favorite moment in the Jeffrey On inning, he had
Speaker 3: up like loading the bases. He had two singles on
Speaker 3: a walk in there too, but uh he struck out
Speaker 3: chased the latter on a check swing where he probably
Speaker 3: didn't actually go around, but he did not wait for
Speaker 3: the third base umpire to signal to strike. He just
Speaker 3: went and did the celebration. Anyway, he might have seen
Speaker 3: it out of the corner of his eye in midair.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know if he can pull
Speaker 3: out once he starts, But I mean it.
Speaker 2: Is a little to pat you spints.
Speaker 1: It's a little like the strut, you know, like you're
Speaker 1: trying it, like it's it's just like, yeah, I got it,
Speaker 1: I got it, I got it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He got asked in the postgame, what does he say?
Speaker 3: What it had feel like? Play people like or.
Speaker 2: The batter taking the close pitch for ball, it's time
Speaker 2: to go. Uh.
Speaker 3: He got asked in the post game, like, what do
Speaker 3: you say to other players that you know might be
Speaker 3: a little offended at you doing that?
Speaker 2: After?
Speaker 3: I don't think about other players. I don't think about it, yeah,
Speaker 3: don Draper, I don't think about them. Yeah, basically, And
Speaker 3: look when you throw one hundred and one and strike
Speaker 3: out nineteen for nine and look like, but my favorite
Speaker 3: moment is going to be But I don't know what
Speaker 3: player it's going to be. Maybe JT. Real Mudo tries
Speaker 3: to hits a home run off and tries to show
Speaker 3: him up by doing it at home plate and just
Speaker 3: like completely blows out their knees, like you like, this
Speaker 3: is a like this is a crazy athletic move. If
Speaker 3: you look at him, he's like tall and like kind
Speaker 3: of wiry, but like again.
Speaker 1: Is not attempting to you need someone's he's too much
Speaker 1: of a veteran.
Speaker 3: Yeah you Frnando Tatooth the Padres next month. I think.
Speaker 2: That's that's possible. Yeah, I was gonna say, like I
Speaker 2: think I think like I don't think he'd do it
Speaker 2: because I don't think he'd taken enough offense.
Speaker 3: But like Bryce Harper, sure, yeah, I don't think Bryce
Speaker 3: would care.
Speaker 2: I don't think Bryce would do it.
Speaker 3: Would be like a little annoyed and perhaps like amused
Speaker 3: by the whole thing. But he's not good yet.
Speaker 1: No, no, I don't think he has the temperament to
Speaker 1: try and do it, but like he like he also
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: Also like a lot of these players that would do it,
Speaker 3: like past it like I can't. I'm not gonna I
Speaker 3: can't physically do that. I'm old, Like I'm not gonna like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna use my finite baseball life energy to
Speaker 3: attempt that, Like, it's not like I can just do
Speaker 3: the avenue Rebay crotch chop back at him, right, yes.
Speaker 1: Right, right, exactly exactly, and then we have a pronunciation update.
Speaker 3: Yes, so we I have not seen any from the listeners,
Speaker 3: but I was distraught to learn one. When I was
Speaker 3: writing up the Jeff Hoffman trade, I couldn't remember who
Speaker 3: exactly was in it, so I searched Jeff Offfman Trade,
Speaker 3: and I learned that what I had been saying Desson Hill.
Speaker 2: For the last how I would have said it two years?
Speaker 3: Uh, it just said Desson Hill rhymes with Jason.
Speaker 2: Does it is it? Is it a weird like d
Speaker 2: Jayson or.
Speaker 3: Jason Hill.
Speaker 2: I thought you were telling me it was Jason Hill,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't like. I don't like
Speaker 2: that D is j in this situation. But it's a
Speaker 2: much more standard name.
Speaker 3: I suppose it's dayson Hill.
Speaker 1: Jason Hill, Okay, sounds less like a sedan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well Dotson Hill over on Dotson Hill. Okay, Jason Hill.
Speaker 2: Got it.
Speaker 1: We'll go to our fourth segment around the Horn. As
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier on Hell, hanw has been called up
Speaker 1: for Cleveland.
Speaker 3: Yeah, got hits in his first four at bats to yeh.
Speaker 2: Didn't he gets error himself?
Speaker 3: He made two. I know he was game losing, but
Speaker 3: he did make two errors on one play.
Speaker 1: Elsewhere in the in the central Jeffrey and I played
Speaker 1: a brief game right before the podcast. Well, while Patrick
Speaker 1: was retrieving something was who played short stop for the
Speaker 1: Minnesota Twins this year?
Speaker 2: Can you it was four names?
Speaker 3: Four names?
Speaker 2: Patrick? Can you get two of them? Well, I mean
Speaker 2: Tristan Gray was playing in the game. I went to,
Speaker 2: all right, big advantage. Well brooks Lee has played it
Speaker 2: for a while. Yeah, yeah, that's thank you. Do you
Speaker 2: do you know the any either of the other two?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: Pro and I forgot some of the others. All right,
Speaker 2: I'm looking up and no, I did not remember Orlando.
Speaker 2: See it was on this team. I can't believe Orlando
Speaker 2: is thirty one years old. That's wild.
Speaker 3: Also, Ryan Criedler, Oh right, sure, sure, I'm not gonna remember.
Speaker 2: Now it's gonna be Calen Culpepper Jeft.
Speaker 3: He's fine, you say, incredibly large group of average tools
Speaker 3: and can play short stop, so he's perfect for the
Speaker 3: Minnesota Twins.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Patrick and I were discussing this before Craig got on,
Speaker 3: and I'm feeling like there's like some early Jorge Polanco
Speaker 3: vibes here. The better shortstop than Polanco, less power probably, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: but like, yeah.
Speaker 2: Look forward, I look forward to him playing first base
Speaker 2: for the man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think to seventy like a four to fifty
Speaker 3: or sorry, to seventy was like a seven to fifty.
Speaker 3: Oh ps there you Okay?
Speaker 1: Did you did you want to? I know you said
Speaker 1: what Hanaw did? Do you want to have a small
Speaker 1: rundown on.
Speaker 3: His Yeah, one of my favorite prospects the last few years. Yeah,
Speaker 3: switch hitting middle and fielder, a little bit more power
Speaker 3: from the right side, makes contact from both. Uh. They
Speaker 3: played him a third ones and second ones probably like
Speaker 3: he did not acquit himself great defensively at either of them.
Speaker 3: But uh should probably be the short stop long term here.
Speaker 2: I think he's not.
Speaker 1: He's not quite as good, but like as an overall player.
Speaker 3: They're gonna play Bazana and second, Ramirez at third, so
Speaker 3: you got to find a spot for him. And he's
Speaker 3: a better overall player than Rokio, so right, I think
Speaker 3: they'll just keep kind of like obviously Ramirez is dealing
Speaker 3: with a hand issue. You know, you can sit Bazana
Speaker 3: against the odd lefty so they can find or Ramirez
Speaker 3: my dh some as well. That's more complicated now that
Speaker 3: they've added both low and a doll and addition to
Speaker 3: the water. So but I think they'll find four days
Speaker 3: a week for him down the stretch.
Speaker 1: Seems reasonable. We also mentioned Brendan Donovan is back. That
Speaker 1: happened again, I think, as Patrick said, before we got
Speaker 1: the podcast out, but we were they were waiting waiting
Speaker 1: on it.
Speaker 3: They were waiting on him, and I was waiting on
Speaker 3: the audio. The four hours of audio files too.
Speaker 2: No, not not. It was not a criticism.
Speaker 3: No, I would have headed out before he played if
Speaker 3: the audio files didn't take forever to convert because they
Speaker 3: were four hours long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was not. It was not a criticism.
Speaker 2: It was just that that they brought him back. That thing. Uh.
Speaker 2: I think we talked about this on the the podcast.
Speaker 2: Isn't we yea the interesting thing? I guess you know
Speaker 2: reporting on it now.
Speaker 3: That he turned it down.
Speaker 2: But he turned it down, apparently I was able to
Speaker 2: find that. I'm not haven't been able to corroborate that.
Speaker 2: Spencer Strider was supposed to be part of the package
Speaker 2: heading the uh, which is interesting. But yeah, so the
Speaker 2: break's gonna used to grumb they should have it's too bad.
Speaker 2: I'm It's like it's one of those situations for the
Speaker 2: players and every has every right to say no, and
Speaker 2: also the players.
Speaker 1: It's essentially like I'm a little surprised. I mean, I
Speaker 1: know he's I know he has like regional preferences or whatever.
Speaker 1: But Atlanta talk to you.
Speaker 3: Talked to Atlanta when he was a free agent too.
Speaker 3: Yeah he was not like not it's closer to his home,
Speaker 3: which is Florida, man, Yes, Florida man.
Speaker 2: It's so I am, I am a little surprised.
Speaker 3: I mean I think I I think he would have
Speaker 3: done it in the officeas then he might just not
Speaker 3: want to do it mid season mid season. Sure, sure,
Speaker 3: I do wonder if they revisit this, and like you're
Speaker 3: going at the obviously the Braves are going to make
Speaker 3: the playoffs, but like the Rangers might. It's that it's
Speaker 3: not like he's leaving in a spot right situation. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: they're in a playoffs about right now.
Speaker 2: Nick Pavetta couldn't make it through a rehab start. So
Speaker 2: the interesting thing here, yeah, is that Pavetta has a
Speaker 2: option in this contract that if he spends more than
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty days with an injury during this
Speaker 2: year or last, it's a fourteen conditional fourteen million dollar
Speaker 2: club option that kicks in, which might still be too
Speaker 2: much money for the brodtery instead of what he's got
Speaker 2: his His deal is very weird. He has I think
Speaker 2: he basically he had an eighteen million dollars salar for
Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight. Yeah, but now if he can't make
Speaker 2: it back, then that becomes a fourteen million ok club option,
Speaker 2: which the twenty down doesn't.
Speaker 3: He already doesn't he have an opt out to?
Speaker 2: I don't know if he is.
Speaker 3: I know it is a very weird contract. I's not
Speaker 3: for sorry, an opt out as well.
Speaker 2: So I yeah, he did have an opt out for
Speaker 2: this year. I don't know if the injury cancels the.
Speaker 3: Opt out or if he keeps the opt out. But
Speaker 3: if the option in, they get a yeah, yes, let's
Speaker 3: make let's let's make baseball.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the language. Yeah. If at if at
Speaker 2: any point in twenty twenty five or twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: Paveta has a specified injury or related surgery, and spends
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty or more consecutive days on the
Speaker 2: injured list in any season or one year period. San
Speaker 2: Diego will have a fourteen million dollar club option for
Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven. It was a fourteen million dollar player option,
Speaker 2: so it gotcha birth to a club option.
Speaker 1: And if the Padres decline, he's a free agent. So
Speaker 1: it's the same money, it just changes who gets to decide.
Speaker 3: Sure, right, the Padres will, It's entirely possible both sides
Speaker 3: here will still be happy for him to be a
Speaker 3: free agent declined as well, So right, and is he
Speaker 3: going to ad one hundred and thirty consecutive days? Like
Speaker 3: how much did he pitch this year?
Speaker 2: If he like, if this setback is really won't make.
Speaker 3: Okay, but also like the Padres probably want him back,
Speaker 3: like the incentive to get him back for the playoff
Speaker 3: stretch run.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think they probably their first will be
Speaker 2: last outing was April twelfth.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, yeah, that's that's not gonna Yeah, he's he's
Speaker 3: he's up against it.
Speaker 1: So it will be a club option. Now, look, I
Speaker 1: think the Padres could justify fourteen million dollars for Paveta
Speaker 1: for next year. That's actually probably a good rate.
Speaker 2: Right the.
Speaker 3: Medicals than anybody else too.
Speaker 2: So the harder part is they opt into as Patrick noted,
Speaker 2: eighteen million for twenty twenty eight. Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 2: tougher for them. So you know, we'll see, we'll see
Speaker 2: that isn't that's interesting thing to track just added to
Speaker 2: the dock.
Speaker 1: Herman Marquez DFA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. I chose not to add that to
Speaker 3: the dock. We've done it.
Speaker 1: That's we've done it. It's happened. Hunter Green landed on
Speaker 1: the aisle. There was some trade heat around Hunter Green.
Speaker 1: It sounded like, I'm not sure what the plan would
Speaker 1: be for Cincinnati if they're willing to deal Hunter Green.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's on the ile. And Tristan Cassas, who
Speaker 1: you've just remembered exists by virtue of jas has risk surgery.
Speaker 1: He definitely has one hundred and thirty days on the aisle.
Speaker 2: Yes, consecutively. The Reds, by the way, winner's the four
Speaker 2: straight and have passed the Pirates and wildcard race there
Speaker 2: four games back at the moment, who though the Reds
Speaker 2: the red their negative sixty brund differential second worst in
Speaker 2: the national League. That takes us to our game, which
Speaker 2: I will note Patrick, we solicited games from our audience.
Speaker 2: Someone provided one, yes, and you've opted against it. No. Yeah,
Speaker 2: mostly because I won't be here for the next two
Speaker 2: weeks and you can play again.
Speaker 1: Very kind, So we will also solicit games again.
Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, if you have a game the next two
Speaker 2: weeks would be especially one that they can play without
Speaker 2: one of them knowing the answers. Uh, this would be
Speaker 2: a good time to submit it. It'd also be a
Speaker 2: good time with them just you know, like I don't know,
Speaker 2: pay someone to make it. I don't know. But in anytime,
Speaker 2: we're going to play tenty grid, So go ahead and
Speaker 2: get yourself ready. Let me bring up a I forgot
Speaker 2: to bring up a blank version too to show you guys.
Speaker 2: Let's see, can I do that with the game I
Speaker 2: bereave played? Yes, I can, so I will put this
Speaker 2: in the chat. The categories for the listeners at home,
Speaker 2: we have on the columns we have the Athletics, the
Speaker 2: Blue Jays, and two hundred hits in a season. And
Speaker 2: in the rows we have the Minnesota Twins, the Atlanta Braves,
Speaker 2: and six reference war in a season. All right, so
Speaker 2: let me send that into you in a chat so
Speaker 2: that you can look at it. Which you guys, Which
Speaker 2: you guys wants to go first?
Speaker 3: I won last time. I remember. I think I went
Speaker 3: first last time. So Craig can go first.
Speaker 2: All right, Craig, you go first. Let me pull up
Speaker 2: my doc and okay, Greg A's and Twins, I can,
Speaker 2: I can. I tell you the first name that came
Speaker 2: to mind. You can't is Nick Punto, Nick Punto, I
Speaker 2: don't know it. With rich Becker, I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: want to go there. You know you don't, but but
Speaker 2: it is the first name that came to mind. The
Speaker 2: rich Rich Becker played for the A's right, he had, Yes,
Speaker 2: he did weird little combo.
Speaker 1: I feel like, sure, there's gotta be like a big
Speaker 1: reliever crossover.
Speaker 3: I'm not thinking of.
Speaker 1: Boy, don't I'm gonna I have Nick Puncho on reserve,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna skip at the moment.
Speaker 2: I'm not coming up with Twins and Blue Jays blue Jays.
Speaker 2: That that feels like there's a real why am I?
Speaker 2: Queens and blue Jays? Boy, we're off to a rough
Speaker 2: star guys. Excellent, definitely Why can't I even think of anyone? God,
Speaker 2: this is horrible. I patrick, yeah, yeah, it's a is there?
Speaker 2: It's it's like, there's like an obvious one, right, it's
Speaker 2: pretty grim. Yeah. I can't remember because I can't remember
Speaker 2: my own grid that I did. I got six out
Speaker 2: of ten or six out of a nine on this
Speaker 2: one last time. Okay, Oh really bad. Yeah, I did
Speaker 2: not get this one. I will say, Okay, here was
Speaker 2: a fairly obvious one, is there? The score was twenty
Speaker 2: three percent on this category. Okay, I'm not it's not
Speaker 2: gonna go. I twins. Honestly, I keep thinking of ones.
Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe it's not this, but I can just
Speaker 1: say this and it's like borderline respectable. And then I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he played for one of these teams. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's that's pretty bad. Yeah, oh my god, Like
Speaker 1: what why don't they have any obvious ones?
Speaker 2: Again? I feel like this is oh, Jose Brios, what.
Speaker 1: Jesus, I'm sorry everyone, twins and two hundred hits in
Speaker 1: the season.
Speaker 2: Wins and two.
Speaker 1: Let's what do you have gotten there? Let's say Joe Mauer,
Speaker 1: he had a lot of hits, probably not enough as
Speaker 1: a catcher.
Speaker 2: Braves and athletics.
Speaker 1: Braves and a's uh. Let's we'll do recent history and
Speaker 1: say Matt Olson.
Speaker 2: Okay, braves and Blue Jays mm hmm, Braves and Blue Jays.
Speaker 1: Fred McGriff okay, Uh, braves and two hundred hits in
Speaker 1: the season.
Speaker 2: So Braves, braves and two hundred hits in a season
Speaker 2: I would have. I I have to assume I have
Speaker 2: to assume Mpoon you.
Speaker 1: Got there on that that year where he stopped striking out.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, okay and a in six reference war.
Speaker 2: I mean it's probably like it's probably the one of
Speaker 2: the pitchers, right, or let's just do Ricky Ricky uh
Speaker 2: Blue Jays six reference war? Can I also go.
Speaker 4: Blue Jays and six reference war. Let's see, you have
Speaker 4: to assume one of the Vlad seasons that's that's most recent.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think it's the question is like Vlad
Speaker 4: is most recent? He had the monster year like twenty
Speaker 4: twenty one, he would have been over it. But like
Speaker 4: Roy Halliday is the gimme uh? I feel like, but yeah,
Speaker 4: I'll go I'll go Halliday Okay, and finally he didn't get.
Speaker 2: There till Philly. No, he must have Finally, the two
Speaker 2: hundred hits in the season in six reference war in
Speaker 2: a season that just anyone anyone who, anyone great, who
Speaker 2: got two hundred hits on this I'll just go to Chiro, okay,
Speaker 2: and then back to twins. God, back to A's and twins.
Speaker 2: Do you remember is this one? Is this? This is
Speaker 2: like super obvious. I feel like I got it. Okay,
Speaker 2: it was it is the category that had the lowest
Speaker 2: high score. Okay, you know what I I don't have it.
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna I'm gonna go with pa Okay,
Speaker 2: You're going with PoTA, all right, Yeah, I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: get it. It's we can admit defeat. If around and
Speaker 2: came back and had nothing and Nick put one, Okay,
Speaker 2: other people like minds with I don't know how many
Speaker 2: big people with Rich Becker. Well we'll never find out,
Speaker 2: all right, Uh, jeff Jeffrey, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2: The number to beat is okay, Patrick got six, I
Speaker 2: got but the number to be is four. Okay, all right,
Speaker 2: A's and twins.
Speaker 3: You know, I try not to like spend too much
Speaker 3: time thinking about it to be fair, but like I
Speaker 3: did start thinking about because I saw this first one
Speaker 3: just like what it feels like it should be a tunnel.
Speaker 3: It feels like all of those Twins pitchers should have
Speaker 3: also pitched for the A's.
Speaker 2: Pitchers only pitch for the Twins.
Speaker 1: Tripped me up multiple times? Is I kept thinking of.
Speaker 3: Blackburn, Nick Paul Blackburn exactly.
Speaker 1: They're different, I think, but they're not really.
Speaker 3: I for some reason, I have in my head that
Speaker 3: Greg Gagney played for the A. So I'm just gonna
Speaker 3: go with that.
Speaker 2: A deep cut. Next Twins and Blue Jays, Jack Morris,
Speaker 2: all right, Next Twins and two hundred hits in a season,
Speaker 2: right carew all right? Next Braves and A's.
Speaker 3: Braves and A's. And I looked at this, I should
Speaker 3: remember it that it's Braves and A's. But uh, Matt Olsen.
Speaker 2: Next is Braves and Blue Jays.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, my Mark Wohler's picture both. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2: You go with Mark Wohlers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got.
Speaker 2: Braves and two hundred hits?
Speaker 3: Did I know Chipper had that season? He hit like
Speaker 3: three sixty, but he walked a lot and he missed time,
Speaker 3: like I kind of want to say, Eddie Matthews but
Speaker 3: if Chipper Jones has two hundred hits, he's definitely the
Speaker 3: answer and not Eddie Matthews. So I guess it comes
Speaker 3: down to do I believe Chipper Jones had although Eddie
Speaker 3: Matthews Eddie Matthews.
Speaker 2: Okay, I love how in a game called Trendy Grid. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just a lot of answer picks. Here A's and
Speaker 2: six reference born.
Speaker 3: A season, Rickey Henderson, Rickey Henderson.
Speaker 2: Okay. Next is Blue Jays and six born a season.
Speaker 3: I mean it's like a few different ways I can
Speaker 3: go here, like Vlad has the recency bias, Hallidays the
Speaker 3: more famous guy. I want to pick John Olerud, but
Speaker 3: I know it's not John Olerud, but shout out John Olerud.
Speaker 2: I will go with Lad all right. And lastly, sorry,
Speaker 2: I typed in the wrong name and you lost. Keep
Speaker 2: guessing six reference war and two hundred hits in a season?
Speaker 3: He true?
Speaker 2: All right? Uh, congratulations overlap, Jeffrey, Yeah, had some overlap,
Speaker 2: But congratulations to Jeffrey who wins five to four. Okay,
Speaker 2: you three that you've got completely wrong. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: see you got correct.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna think too hard about nights. I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: I'm just not all right.
Speaker 2: So we'll go through the A's and twins. The most
Speaker 2: common category on hundred and ninety eight overlamp it is
Speaker 2: Josh Donaldson fifteen. Yeah, yeah, that makes one more sense. Yep.
Speaker 3: I don't remember his like, I know he played for
Speaker 3: the Twins, but that just justice for Shredder though.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Blue Jays and Twins. This this is a
Speaker 2: this is a real god. What's his name, Jim Tomy special,
Speaker 2: Jack Morris thirteen percent, not man but Paul.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I almost I thought about Paul and and
Speaker 1: then I I got scared I had.
Speaker 2: It wrong somehow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just that makes sense, but like I just
Speaker 3: saw that my check Morris, like.
Speaker 2: That was ye I forgot Jack Morris played for the
Speaker 2: Blue Jays.
Speaker 3: Because bad in the playoffs for them.
Speaker 2: Actually Twins and j hit Rock Crew yep, yeah, correct,
Speaker 2: I thought about did didn't our get to two hundred?
Speaker 3: I don't like, I don't think he played it?
Speaker 1: Now, that was my that was my concern. I should
Speaker 1: have I thought about Carew and just didn't.
Speaker 2: Blue Jays and Braves is Fred McGriff That was twenty
Speaker 2: five percent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I should have gotten got.
Speaker 2: The Braves and two hundred hits in the season. Ronald
Speaker 2: the Queeny Jr. A real bad beat on this one.
Speaker 2: I will say, Creg thirty one is not the number one?
Speaker 2: Who is it? It's take Aaron. I don't know if
Speaker 2: that's okay, that's justified. I probably should have just said
Speaker 2: bank Arett. Yeah, said Ay Matthews. You might pick his
Speaker 2: more famous, better hitting teammate.
Speaker 3: Yep, well, thank, I should have assumed.
Speaker 2: But Jeffrey, you pulled it out because you've got the
Speaker 2: last three in a row. Correct, it's Ricky Henderson for
Speaker 2: the A's and six plus one. We all got that one.
Speaker 2: It is I also we're on the fence, and I
Speaker 2: went with Halliday as well, and then it is a
Speaker 2: tro for the six war season into it hit so
Speaker 2: that you both got that one. I went with Ted
Speaker 2: Williams because I always forget that Ted Williams has never
Speaker 2: gotten two hundred season. He will. I mean he's still
Speaker 2: he's still technically kind of alive, but I don't think
Speaker 2: he's gonna make it at this point.
Speaker 3: For tougher ara to hit it tough to hit it, especially.
Speaker 2: With all those walks. So yeah, congratulations to Jeffrey. You give.
Speaker 3: Walk more than bonds it is.
Speaker 1: I don't mind the bad beat on Incunia. I am
Speaker 1: frustrated at that. It came down to Vlad Halliday and
Speaker 1: we both we both seesaw it on it and and
Speaker 1: it went the wrong way. That is a little frustrated,
Speaker 1: but nice Win. Thank you for the game, Patrick. Thank
Speaker 1: you to our listeners for joining us on another episode
Speaker 1: of five and Dive brought to you by the Baseball
Speaker 1: Perspectives podcast Network. You can get in touch with the
Speaker 1: show with a game please at five and Dive at
Speaker 1: Baseball perspectives dot com.
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Speaker 5: I can't all this story.
Speaker 3: The vacancy.
Speaker 5: Can my most the fucking mother I can be answering
Speaker 5: all the