Speaker 1: I'm Ali.
Speaker 2: I came out after twenty years of marriage and I
Speaker 2: have three kids.
Speaker 3: I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
Speaker 3: out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 2: This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
Speaker 2: and victories that.
Speaker 1: Come with it.
Speaker 3: When coming out feels like the end of the world,
Speaker 3: but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 2: This is the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 4: I also know killos.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome.
Speaker 4: Okay, what were you going to say before I interrupted you? Well,
Speaker 4: what I'm going to say, I don't want to be recorded.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, Okay, you can tell me after the show
Speaker 2: if you remember.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, let's talk about the Lake.
Speaker 2: We just spent a fun blast of a weekend coming
Speaker 2: where Robin and I now have a handshake.
Speaker 4: We went into it without one, and we left with one.
Speaker 2: If anybody watches Penn fifteen, it's like, this is Robin
Speaker 2: and I truly so now we have to have a
Speaker 2: handshake every time.
Speaker 1: We didn't do it just now. I theme we've got
Speaker 1: to like lock in, we need to redo that.
Speaker 2: People at the Lake were like, are you guys seriously
Speaker 2: do we have to do this?
Speaker 4: Every time, like, yeah, every time we just comes out
Speaker 4: of our room from changing.
Speaker 1: I think you might be as big of a door
Speaker 1: as I am. Yeah, maybe more more for sure. But
Speaker 1: that was so fun.
Speaker 4: It was so fun I had I was just telling
Speaker 4: my mom I think because my mom is in town
Speaker 4: this week, that I had so many moments of it
Speaker 4: was so fun and we had all these laughs, and
Speaker 4: it was a great time, and I had so many
Speaker 4: moments of being so grateful for all these women in
Speaker 4: my life. Yeah, I mean like sister friends almost.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it was just an the reminder of the
Speaker 4: community of people around me and around us, and yeah,
Speaker 4: it was.
Speaker 1: It was just a really fun weekend.
Speaker 2: One thing really sweet and special about you is like
Speaker 2: I got there a day later than everyone else, and
Speaker 2: Robin made.
Speaker 1: Me feel like she could not wait for my arrival. Really,
Speaker 1: I'm getting text like how much longer? What's your nay?
Speaker 1: Are you gonna be here?
Speaker 2: Even like when I lost signal on the way there,
Speaker 2: and then when I turned my phone.
Speaker 1: On Robin, how much longer.
Speaker 4: I was ready for my bud? You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a good time. Yeah, I had a moment.
Speaker 2: Do you ever are you ever partying, and you're like,
Speaker 2: I could either I can go one of two ways
Speaker 2: with this. I can slow it down and be done
Speaker 2: and probably and go to bed and be good. Or
Speaker 2: I can just go ahead and lock in. And I
Speaker 2: chose to lock in. Yes we all did, Yeah we did.
Speaker 1: We not all of us. But oh my god, we
Speaker 1: haven't posted the choreographed dance. Is it ever going to
Speaker 1: get posted? I don't know.
Speaker 4: We all felt so confident in it at one am,
Speaker 4: when the next morning everyone's tune changed.
Speaker 2: But how about we did the shake on it that
Speaker 2: it's getting I know.
Speaker 4: We did the like hand top you know, you guys, we.
Speaker 1: Did a million takes we have to post. We did,
Speaker 1: and I still feel pretty good about it. It was definitely.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a bit a bit messier the next morning,
Speaker 4: but it was. It was so fun doing it.
Speaker 1: It was really, really fun.
Speaker 2: It's like this that particular group, it's right up there alley.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like there's a few that are gonna take control
Speaker 4: of a choreographed dance totally, and then there's a few
Speaker 4: us we're just gonna for it and say tell me
Speaker 4: what to do.
Speaker 2: What's funny, you guys, is that there were two really
Speaker 2: femme girls, and then three more like Robin, Me and Melissa.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say mask, but I would say a little
Speaker 2: bit more leaning. So we were like, Okay, who's going
Speaker 2: to be the girl?
Speaker 1: Who's gonna be? They?
Speaker 4: As long as there's boy parts and girl parts.
Speaker 1: Were in exactly. No, it was really good. It was
Speaker 1: so fun.
Speaker 2: You really took it up a notch at the end.
Speaker 2: You guys gotta see this.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be getting excited about my friend Robin and
Speaker 1: your slow linger Pretzel smoking. Pretzel smoking.
Speaker 2: Do you know that I sent it to the kids
Speaker 2: and they thought it was a real cigarette. I was like,
Speaker 2: thank god, we're clearing this up. No, it wasn't a
Speaker 2: real cigarette.
Speaker 4: Do you see smoke coming out?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: But I got close enough that they couldn't tell. They
Speaker 2: were like, I thought you were really smoking. Now I'm like, God,
Speaker 2: do I need a PSA? I'm not smoking.
Speaker 1: This isn't nicotine. This is not nicotine. This is a
Speaker 1: pretzel a pretzel twist.
Speaker 4: I can't I'll try to do this pretzel smoking and
Speaker 4: then I just eat it because I can't help it.
Speaker 2: You get another pretzel stick, you keep it for a while.
Speaker 2: I keep it for a minute because I don't want
Speaker 2: the carbs. But you know, I've gotten to where I
Speaker 2: do it so much. You guys little backstory. I don't
Speaker 2: know what it is, but if I'm dancing and there
Speaker 2: are pretzels, I will be smoking the pretzels. I thought
Speaker 2: everyone did this as kids, Like I thought pretzel sticks
Speaker 2: smoking was like a thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I can.
Speaker 4: I feel like I did it every once in a while,
Speaker 4: just like as a joke. But you will hang on
Speaker 4: to it for I commit to the bit. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: commit to the bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, but I've gotten to where now like my hands no,
Speaker 2: like this is smoking, Like I know what.
Speaker 1: It looks like. I'm really well versed at it. I
Speaker 1: can ask it. You got to commit to the bed.
Speaker 1: It's very realistic. Were like, exactly, yeah, I look like
Speaker 1: a pro.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm going to tell you the other night,
Speaker 2: I was hanging out with someone very special to me
Speaker 2: and we were doing a well actually, what's really great
Speaker 2: is I pulled it out this question game okay, and
Speaker 2: it's like but an intimacy question game. And she immediately
Speaker 2: was like, oh, we already like run out of things
Speaker 2: to talk about.
Speaker 1: That you have to get the questions out. I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I just had this sitting here and I thought this
Speaker 1: would be fun, spice things up, things up a little bit.
Speaker 2: But so it comes with like three chunks of questions.
Speaker 2: You can get it like really spicy, or you can
Speaker 2: be just like in the middle, or it's like very lacky.
Speaker 2: So I thought I would ask you a couple just
Speaker 2: low key ones. These are not sexual in nature at all.
Speaker 2: These are just normal Okay, okay, First one is if
Speaker 2: I took your phone right now, what would I find?
Speaker 1: What would you be most embarrassed for me to see
Speaker 1: on there?
Speaker 4: Oh? God, I don't know. I think I'm pretty good
Speaker 4: at hiding pictures. Actually, anecdote from the lake. The first
Speaker 4: night we were there, Okay, someone was showing pictures to
Speaker 4: us of someone they were seeing, and then somebody tried
Speaker 4: to scroll back to like look at more pictures, and
Speaker 4: they were like whoa, whoa, whoa?
Speaker 1: Watch where whoa? Whoa whoa?
Speaker 4: And I was like, do you know how to hide pictures?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Hidden miles or hidden it.
Speaker 4: I mean occasionally forgotten to do that. And then my
Speaker 4: kids are like looking at something and scrolling. I'm like,
Speaker 4: give that back to me.
Speaker 2: I need actually, can you give me a tutorial because
Speaker 2: I haven't done that in a long time. Yeah, hiding
Speaker 2: the pictures and I got on there. I know it's easy,
Speaker 2: but I need to like tutorial. But wait a minute,
Speaker 2: can I just ask you this, and not to incriminate anyone,
Speaker 2: but is it like a little bit of bad form
Speaker 2: to like, if I really care about someone that I
Speaker 2: have a naked picture of, I don't know that I'm
Speaker 2: sharing it with you guys.
Speaker 4: Ever, No, No, these were definitely not naked pictures. It
Speaker 4: was just a normal picture of someone that they were
Speaker 4: showing to show up.
Speaker 1: Okay, looked like ok.
Speaker 4: And then somebody was gonna swipe and look at other
Speaker 4: pictures thinking there were more of this person and they
Speaker 4: were like wait, wait, wait, like scrolling on my phone
Speaker 4: got it. And I immediately was like, if there's something
Speaker 4: you don't want people to see.
Speaker 1: You hide it totally. Uh So I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think what you like pictures you mean
Speaker 4: or what you're generally you would say something embarrassing you searched,
Speaker 4: like a rash that you have, or like a weird
Speaker 4: itch that you have.
Speaker 2: A discharge thing, something that's like you had to check
Speaker 2: and see porn porn? Do you ever go into private
Speaker 2: mode and do and look at porn on your phone?
Speaker 1: I ever do that.
Speaker 4: I close it out right away. I'm not leaving it
Speaker 4: up even in incognito. No, you close it out in
Speaker 4: the private mode. If I am searching something on my
Speaker 4: phone that I need to search in private, I'm canceling
Speaker 4: it because it's so easily accessible. Still, I think it's
Speaker 4: too easy to access things on your phone, so I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not keeping anything.
Speaker 4: Okay, And also like why are we so ashamed of porn?
Speaker 4: I don't know, it is like a thing? Yeah, probably
Speaker 4: just because of you know, the industry itself and is
Speaker 4: it is it?
Speaker 1: Uh? I don't know.
Speaker 2: Or maybe it's also like if you're searching, like I
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't. I don't do this a lot,
Speaker 2: but I've heard people say.
Speaker 1: I've heard a friend told me once that it's also
Speaker 1: like if you're searching.
Speaker 2: You don't just put PORNI you're putting whatever your kink
Speaker 2: is or a very specific topic fantasy and you want
Speaker 2: to play it out strange, And so then if.
Speaker 4: Somebody sees that, they're like they know exactly what your
Speaker 4: buttons are right away.
Speaker 1: There's no mystery. What is it about it too?
Speaker 2: That they can be like one thing that's like in
Speaker 2: your mind for like maybe two years and then it's.
Speaker 1: Like, okay, I'm kind of over this.
Speaker 4: I'll switch up a couple of words.
Speaker 2: So I think that's what's embarrassing, is like they're seeing
Speaker 2: this very specific thing.
Speaker 4: So yeah, to be clear, that's not my answer.
Speaker 2: So that's so Robin, your answer is poorn know what?
Speaker 1: What what could I find on there?
Speaker 4: I don't even know, Like probably maybe pictures that I
Speaker 4: haven't hidden or I don't I don't know.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's the next one. Okay, on mine, it might
Speaker 2: be the former. Okay, no, actually mine would probably be
Speaker 2: pictures too, And I don't have anything in a hidden file.
Speaker 2: And if I see something like beautiful in a situation,
Speaker 2: I snap it, I take the picture.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I'm someone who does that, and it's like very
Speaker 2: annoying to the people that are in close park Semite in.
Speaker 4: Session, You're like, wait, wait, wait, wait wait that it
Speaker 4: looks really good right now, I'm.
Speaker 1: Going to take this picture. Oh god, you don't mind
Speaker 1: if I stop what I'm.
Speaker 3: Doing and look at my phone now, dude, not like that,
Speaker 3: but like you know, like just like beautiful moments, not
Speaker 3: just women, but like in general, Like if I'm in
Speaker 3: a moment, I'm like, oh, man, like sure, Whight's hitting
Speaker 3: you perfect right now?
Speaker 1: Freeze.
Speaker 4: I probably have some embarrassing pictures like that too, of
Speaker 4: like what is that? Nobody knows what that is except me. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but I mean I feel like it's kind of wholesome.
Speaker 1: Very wholesome. Okay, Okay. The next one I'm going to
Speaker 1: ask you is because we've known.
Speaker 2: Each other a minute but not super long. Okay, so
Speaker 2: what would you say that you like thought about me
Speaker 2: when we first met? Because when Robin and I first met,
Speaker 2: we met at a I picked you up. Actually we weren't.
Speaker 2: It was a friendship thing. We went to a bar
Speaker 2: in my neighborhood and just had dinner.
Speaker 1: The first time we met was before that.
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, we met at the birthday party. At
Speaker 2: day party, you were like someone who I was very
Speaker 2: excited about because I could tell you were going to
Speaker 2: be in our crew for sure. But what I'm wondering
Speaker 2: is what's like your impression of me that now that
Speaker 2: you actually know me, you're like, Wow, that was wrong.
Speaker 4: It's hard to like look back, but I would say
Speaker 4: I didn't realize how funny you are. I mean, I
Speaker 4: knew you were cool, Like the first impression I got
Speaker 4: was that you were cool and like could carry on
Speaker 4: a conversation with anyone. Because even the birthday party night,
Speaker 4: I remember chatting with you and like the group of
Speaker 4: people that you were standing with, but not for very long,
Speaker 4: so like it was very it was like surface level,
Speaker 4: but you just were very You were outgoing okay, and
Speaker 4: you were curious, which that which you very much are
Speaker 4: like curious about people about stories. But I was like,
Speaker 4: in an environment where we're not like cozy and comfy
Speaker 4: with each other, we don't know each other very well.
Speaker 1: Neither of us knew each other's humor or anything like that.
Speaker 2: During handshakes, we all have a secret hands all have
Speaker 2: a secret handshake.
Speaker 1: Yet that's not secret, not so secret. Everybody's not.
Speaker 4: But I would say, like I didn't necessarily think you
Speaker 4: weren't funny at that time, but now now that we
Speaker 4: know each other really well, like that's like the thing
Speaker 4: I feel like that we connect most on is our humor.
Speaker 4: It's just our ability to like have a shared moment
Speaker 4: just with eye.
Speaker 1: Contact and eye contact, it's like it's so hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and just understand, have this understanding of.
Speaker 2: What was just funny just now that's like not really
Speaker 2: that funny, but it's like I can't stop with it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's interesting. I would say the same thing about you.
Speaker 2: I think like you have my exist act sense of humor,
Speaker 2: like almost to a tea.
Speaker 4: And it's not for everybody, No, it's not. It's definitely
Speaker 4: not everybody.
Speaker 2: I would say that, but I would say bigger than
Speaker 2: that even is that when I met you, like I
Speaker 2: knew your history of like where you'd been living. You
Speaker 2: had this like very what looked like on paper, I
Speaker 2: don't know, choreographed like life like these three beautiful daughters,
Speaker 2: this husband, this, And I think I thought you were
Speaker 2: more mainstream.
Speaker 1: Is that the right word.
Speaker 2: I think I thought sitting there that she's just a
Speaker 2: sweet girl who's about to get a big eyes wide open,
Speaker 2: as I did because I was that ye, and I
Speaker 2: think you surprised me with you are like so much
Speaker 2: more than that, Like your depth is real, like just
Speaker 2: a fun couple facts about Robin. She never fucking talks
Speaker 2: about people ever, Like you are a I never worried
Speaker 2: about you ever, Like you're you don't get involved in nonsense,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot more depth than I think I
Speaker 2: thought you would have coming from coming Georgia.
Speaker 4: Caveat to that.
Speaker 2: I only lived there for two years, okay, so you
Speaker 2: didn't have time to go. I don't even like to
Speaker 2: claim it, Okay, I hated it for every moment. Sorry,
Speaker 2: if anyone listening lives in coming, But okay, if you
Speaker 2: can get out, get out, get out.
Speaker 1: Get out of that. Blink twice if you need help
Speaker 1: me some help getting out.
Speaker 4: I lived in Smyrna for a long time, which is
Speaker 4: still the Urbs, but it's completely different. So that's kind
Speaker 4: of what like I claim, okay, because it was like
Speaker 4: eight year long journey there. Okay, but yeah, I kind
Speaker 4: of appreciate that, like I thank you for seeing me
Speaker 4: in that way. And I think probably a lot of
Speaker 4: people initially that I met once I lived here had
Speaker 4: that impression. I remember our friend Jess one time, like
Speaker 4: after the first time meeting me, she told me this
Speaker 4: many months later, like she thought that I was just
Speaker 4: kind of this like sweet, like little southern Femali because
Speaker 4: the first time we all went out together I wore
Speaker 4: this like sleeveless turtleneck basically wait, what not turtleneck, but
Speaker 4: it was like all the way up on my neck
Speaker 4: and my hair was a lot longer.
Speaker 1: There's this this group picture.
Speaker 4: Here at your house, which was like two years ago
Speaker 4: now where I like a lot of us actually look
Speaker 4: if you have much longer hair, Like, yeah, a lot
Speaker 4: of people look different. And I was still definitely me,
Speaker 4: but I was very much not in my body completely
Speaker 4: at that point, and like my style has continued to
Speaker 4: evolve since then. And but I and I also feel
Speaker 4: like when I first meet people, especially up to that
Speaker 4: point in my life, I was very reserved when I
Speaker 4: met people, and I still am a little bit of
Speaker 4: an observer and it very initially when I meet.
Speaker 1: People, I guess I haven't people, I just.
Speaker 4: But I think it's changed, like in the last especially
Speaker 4: the last two years since I've been living in town
Speaker 4: and I have spent a lot more time in the
Speaker 4: queer community, and I feel so much more like myself
Speaker 4: right I am. I am so much more confident in
Speaker 4: my own self that I will just like go up
Speaker 4: to someone on the dance floor and look at them
Speaker 4: and ask them to dance. With me, like I would
Speaker 4: never have done that three, five, ten years ago.
Speaker 1: I would have been scared shitless.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's a bold move and yeah, and it's so
Speaker 4: just going back to your point. And it's funny because
Speaker 4: I also will a couple of times recently we'll just
Speaker 4: be like, I'm just a basic bitch because I love
Speaker 4: Taylor Swift and I have a Stanley Cup and there's
Speaker 4: like other things that are just very mainstream.
Speaker 1: Which is why people are fooled, right, But.
Speaker 4: Like, I'm actually not No, you're none of these things.
Speaker 4: Like there's a lot of oh you are Taylor, well,
Speaker 4: I love Taylor. There are definitely basic bitch kind of
Speaker 4: things about me, but I'm not. Like the point is
Speaker 4: that I'm actually not that and there is so much
Speaker 4: more depth And but I think it took coming out
Speaker 4: and living in a place where I feel comfortable to
Speaker 4: be myself and having friends who I feel so good with, yeah,
Speaker 4: and so comfortable with to just be myself fully right,
Speaker 4: like I've always been that person. But it took just
Speaker 4: my environment and the people around me and knowing I
Speaker 4: like womenah to feel like, oh okay, I just fully
Speaker 4: embody who I actually am and not be nervous about it,
Speaker 4: and I.
Speaker 1: Think it does change your it changes everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you can just show up as kind of
Speaker 2: a battie because you're just like exactly who you are.
Speaker 2: It's rare now that I go anywhere where I'm nervous.
Speaker 4: No, yes, same, And I would say that's not that
Speaker 4: didn't used to be the.
Speaker 1: Case for me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, when we would. When I lived in Smurnaw
Speaker 4: a long time, we had a decent community of like
Speaker 4: family friends, like couples mainly with little kids and stuff.
Speaker 4: And it was fine and it served a great purpose
Speaker 4: and we definitely had some good community. But I never
Speaker 4: went into an environment, especially when it would be like
Speaker 4: three or four couple friends, feeling like so good about myself.
Speaker 1: I always was like a little.
Speaker 4: Bit uncomfortable, like, yeah, comparing myself to what other women
Speaker 4: were wearing or how they were sitting even or like
Speaker 4: there was always something unrest, Yes, unrest. And I mean
Speaker 4: it's easier to identify that in hindsight, but absolutely that's
Speaker 4: how I carried like that. I carried that in myself
Speaker 4: for the first thirty ish years of my life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's hard to old habits die hard. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's like then you have to slowly unpack it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There are moments though, and I want to cross into
Speaker 2: you brought up fashion, because there are moments like I
Speaker 2: a few years ago when my kids were home, Owen
Speaker 2: has this, or actually I think they were Tatum's originally
Speaker 2: than they were Owens.
Speaker 1: We all kind of share clothes. Yeah, but Tatum is in.
Speaker 2: My mind very fashionable in that she doesn't dress like
Speaker 2: anyone else. But if you go to like where she
Speaker 2: lives in the East Village, they all these girls have
Speaker 2: this sense of like independent fashion, That's what I would
Speaker 2: call it. And somehow she looks cool even though she's
Speaker 2: picking things that I'm like, really with that, Like she'll
Speaker 2: wear like bloomers and then like boots and a tank
Speaker 2: like I'm like, who picks that?
Speaker 1: And then a sweater vest.
Speaker 4: I mean, and she looks amazing every time.
Speaker 2: So she was home, so I trust her, I guess,
Speaker 2: is what I'm saying. And she had had this peara
Speaker 2: of jeans that were like thrifted, huge par of le
Speaker 2: vice and she's like, just try them, like try them,
Speaker 2: and I did put them on, and I was like, damn,
Speaker 2: I kind of get it, Like these feel so good.
Speaker 2: And she's like, they look so much better mom than
Speaker 2: what you're doing, Like wear them and like those jeans
Speaker 2: now are like I live in those jeans, and I
Speaker 2: and to make so you know, I have several pairs
Speaker 2: now that are the exact same pair. But that's how
Speaker 2: much I love them because I feel good in them
Speaker 2: and I would when I first put them on, I
Speaker 2: was shocked at how good it felt.
Speaker 1: And that is when my style started to shift.
Speaker 2: I always had decent style, but like my own personal
Speaker 2: style brand, yeah shifted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was that pear of.
Speaker 2: Jeans, and I have other items now that have like
Speaker 2: come into focus. But I think you had a similar situation,
Speaker 2: Like how do you how would you describe the morphing
Speaker 2: of your style?
Speaker 4: I mean, the same pair of genes honestly is part
Speaker 4: of it for me. Yeah, but even before that, I
Speaker 4: and I will say, I'm it's still evolving. Like when
Speaker 4: see every new season, basically when it's getting warm again
Speaker 4: or it's getting cold again, I'm going to my closet.
Speaker 1: Which this is like feels like a universal thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if it's men also, but for women,
Speaker 4: I feel like you go to your closet and you're like,
Speaker 4: I have nothing to wear, But when you are going
Speaker 4: through a transformative experience like coming out later and kind
Speaker 4: of like really coming into who you are. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: mean I've purged seventy five percent of my closet totally
Speaker 4: when I moved totally, and I do it regularly because
Speaker 4: that's just who I am. I'm never going to have
Speaker 4: like an excessive amount of items, especially if I don't
Speaker 4: wear them. But it is a real struggle now, like
Speaker 4: every season. And I bought clothes a couple of years
Speaker 4: ago that I was like, Okay, I feel like these
Speaker 4: feel good.
Speaker 1: They feel just.
Speaker 4: I don't even know, like more adult or something. But
Speaker 4: now I won't. I can't wear them, like shorts that
Speaker 4: are too short or too tight, Like I can't. I
Speaker 4: have one pair of Jean shorts that I'm literally wearing
Speaker 4: right now, and it's the only pair of Jean shorts
Speaker 4: that I will wear because it's the only ones I
Speaker 4: really feel good in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like.
Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago though, that I was at
Speaker 2: a music festival in short Levi shorts, But like now
Speaker 2: that can you even picture me in tho?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: I can't.
Speaker 2: I guess sometimes at the lake I might wear or
Speaker 2: my parents' house, I might still wear it over a
Speaker 2: bathing suit because it's just like simple sure, yeah, but
Speaker 2: but it feels weird.
Speaker 4: Now yeah, or even like I'll say, the last few years,
Speaker 4: I bought a bunch of different pairs of like Levi's jeans,
Speaker 4: and then I got the like my boy jeans yep,
Speaker 4: and I have not worn a single other pair for
Speaker 4: me other pants that are like high waisted or like
Speaker 4: more form fitting, because I feel so good in your
Speaker 4: power the baggie yes, and like in the power in.
Speaker 1: Your power yes. And I remember like.
Speaker 2: Even saying to you when you go to the place
Speaker 2: clothing warehouse, I'm like, when you go to get them,
Speaker 2: get two sizes.
Speaker 1: Bigger than what you think is big.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like I go huge now yeah yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 4: mean and so it is. It definitely was like a
Speaker 4: like something awoke in me that was like whoa same,
Speaker 4: these these feel I feel amazing in these.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my body, I'm.
Speaker 4: Confident in myself, Like yeah, they're very different than anything
Speaker 4: else I've worn before. So now I'm like, shit, I
Speaker 4: need to now I need to just like go in
Speaker 4: a totally different direction, right or not even a different direction,
Speaker 4: but just be more open to like you're saying, Tate
Speaker 4: will pay a lot of things together that feel kind
Speaker 4: of out of nowhere. Yeah, like they might not make sense,
Speaker 4: but then they do. And and half of it is,
Speaker 4: or more than half of it is that she just
Speaker 4: feels good in them. True, it's not even about the
Speaker 4: individual item, it's that you feel good in it. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 4: so then it looks good.
Speaker 2: And I think one way to like transition, if people
Speaker 2: are looking to do that, is like I'll go really
Speaker 2: feminine on top and then just be boy on the bottom, girl.
Speaker 1: On top boy, and girl on top boy.
Speaker 4: We also we talked about just the other day going
Speaker 4: to like a few thrift stores together. Yeah. I think
Speaker 4: for me, I because I have not really ever like
Speaker 4: I felt like I knew myself and my own unique
Speaker 4: style all that. Well, like I still want somebody else
Speaker 4: to come with me, or I be like to pick
Speaker 4: something up that I would never touch, right, or be
Speaker 4: like you should try this, that is Tatum. Yeah, Like
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm not gonna be able to go into
Speaker 4: a store by myself and look at a completely new
Speaker 4: thing that I've never worn before and be like yep,
Speaker 4: I need somebody, and maybe I'll get there. I'm sure totally.
Speaker 2: What you need too is like she went in my
Speaker 2: closet and just started cutting shit.
Speaker 1: I need that. I need her dress somebody to do it,
Speaker 1: like i'ven't worn in ten years.
Speaker 2: She was like, this would be an adorable top. We're
Speaker 2: cutting it right now. Have you ever heard of the
Speaker 2: band Big Thief?
Speaker 1: Yeah you have?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, that's Tate's favorite band. The lead singer I think
Speaker 2: might be a lesbian.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, she has a big crush on her. But
Speaker 2: every outfit that like she'll build, she's like it's her.
Speaker 2: She's like, oh my god, she would totally wear that.
Speaker 1: She have to wear that.
Speaker 4: Okay. That's another thing, is like having kind of like
Speaker 4: a style icon, if you will. And there's a few
Speaker 4: of those, like random lesbian influencers or just like funny
Speaker 4: people that I follow on Instagram who I don't personally know,
Speaker 4: but there's a few people, or even like Sue Bird
Speaker 4: as an example, great great style Ashlyn Harris. I really
Speaker 4: like her style. It's a little bit more well, people have.
Speaker 1: Very strong opinions about her.
Speaker 4: I just don't want you, but I don't want to
Speaker 4: be look at me, look at me. No I don't either,
Speaker 4: but no, it's not always that way. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 4: that's part of it, is just like the posts and
Speaker 4: stuff that you sure, but style wise, there's like a
Speaker 4: few people that obviously they're very famous. But then there's
Speaker 4: a couple other I can't remember her name, Rachel something.
Speaker 4: She's a comedian on Instagram. She's a lesbian and.
Speaker 1: I love her style.
Speaker 4: It's it's like I've tried to emulate a little bit
Speaker 4: or just like kind of pay attention to how she
Speaker 4: pairs things, and like she'll wear bagg ear pants like,
Speaker 4: but sometimes it's gene Sometimes it's like trousers slacks do
Speaker 4: you want to call it? With like a button down,
Speaker 4: But it's like a little bit elevated, okay, a little
Speaker 4: bit more feminine, but still like kind of androgynous, which
Speaker 4: I feel like, is oh, I love that what I'm
Speaker 4: going for.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So this happened very recently where I was learned about
Speaker 2: the show called Lions, And so the show opens and immediately,
Speaker 2: first of all, it's a somewhat gay show.
Speaker 1: It's a really good show. If you haven't.
Speaker 4: Watched it, is this the one that's on Paramount. Yes, okay,
Speaker 4: can't you borrow my log in? Sure?
Speaker 1: I would love to. Okay, it's worth it. So anyway,
Speaker 1: she who's in the show is Zoe Saldana. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you know she is.
Speaker 2: Okay, So every single outfit that she has on in
Speaker 2: this show, I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, I want that. I want that. Like I was
Speaker 1: like it.
Speaker 2: Didn't matter whether she was like in her military thing
Speaker 2: or like out at a restaurant. It's like every you know,
Speaker 2: the suit that I wore for Lindsay's, then she'll go
Speaker 2: from that to like the most kick ass like loose
Speaker 2: sweatpants tank top five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she just she looked so good.
Speaker 2: So I went on this mission over the last like
Speaker 2: seven days. I'm like, I I cannot find this style anywhere.
Speaker 1: It does not exist.
Speaker 2: Like it's literally made me say we need to start
Speaker 2: a fashion line that's like so women don't have to
Speaker 2: because some women shop in men's clothing to like get
Speaker 2: the thing that they want, and I don't want to
Speaker 2: do that because it's not cut.
Speaker 1: I still have a women's body, right and so, and
Speaker 1: I also don't like.
Speaker 2: When people look like they have hand me downs on,
Speaker 2: Like I think that there's like there's style and then
Speaker 2: there's now you just look like you have hand me
Speaker 2: downs on and so, but that her style I loved.
Speaker 2: I searched like online anywhere. I was like where can
Speaker 2: I find it? And Nikki is like a shopper, so
Speaker 2: she's like looking it doesn't exist, but truly in that way.
Speaker 2: So I took a picture of her into a tailor
Speaker 2: Our tailor You and I Taylor.
Speaker 1: I walked in there to David.
Speaker 2: I'm like, David, this is what I'm trying to do,
Speaker 2: and he's like, that's we can do that the problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he's going to like build the pants that.
Speaker 4: You're going to have a full custom wardrobe.
Speaker 2: Well okay, so I was like, this is going to
Speaker 2: be expensive, but I'm gonna it's worth it.
Speaker 1: I want these pants.
Speaker 2: So he though when I he broke it down, it's
Speaker 2: like as if I'm shopping at Buck Mason.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like you're buying it's not that clothes and yeah,
Speaker 4: you're like tailoring them.
Speaker 2: It's not even It wasn't as expensive as I thought,
Speaker 2: but it made me think there's clearly if this is
Speaker 2: a product I will consume. Yeah, there are others in
Speaker 2: need in the market, there's a hole in the market.
Speaker 1: The only brand that does it is Wild Bag. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who really caters to that? And I don't like bright
Speaker 1: colors and very utilitarian same way I dress.
Speaker 4: I've looked at their suits many times because I like
Speaker 4: the cut and have imagine they would look amazing because
Speaker 4: they're made for that specific kind of style. But same,
Speaker 4: I wish they carried more options for fabric prints and stuff.
Speaker 4: It's just a little bit.
Speaker 1: It'd be more simple.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because if you think about people that, like, I
Speaker 4: don't know, like New York City to me is a
Speaker 4: fashion like there's a lot of very people have great
Speaker 4: fashion there and people aren't wearing bright turquoise.
Speaker 2: They just start like I don't I don't care what
Speaker 2: you say, they're not right. I walk around that city
Speaker 2: all the time. These women look amazing and they're in black, gray, white,
Speaker 2: and like camel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's my entire closet. All those colors, maybe say
Speaker 4: Olive or a couple other like more subtle kind of colors.
Speaker 4: But I agree, I feel like the market for that
Speaker 4: is big.
Speaker 2: And it's getting bigger all the time because we're all
Speaker 2: coming out because there's a whole sea of us.
Speaker 1: There's a sea of us.
Speaker 2: I'm going to take over erectly because it's hard now
Speaker 2: to show up in any other way, you know. Okay,
Speaker 2: what are other things that you feel like have morphed
Speaker 2: since this coming? I want to say coming of age,
Speaker 2: but it's not coming of age, but like, what else
Speaker 2: besides your fashion?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: How about the way you mother?
Speaker 4: Is that shifted definitely? And I mean and that doesn't
Speaker 4: have anything to do with me coming out necessarily, but
Speaker 4: all the other changes in my life, like not like
Speaker 4: undoing my marriage, and there was just I have now
Speaker 4: realized a lot of anxiety that I was carrying, right
Speaker 4: and that he was carrying. And I'm not carrying that anymore.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not that on My life is without anxiety,
Speaker 4: but it's a completely different type. And I know myself
Speaker 4: so much better now so that I can show up
Speaker 4: the way that I really want to show up as
Speaker 4: a mom. And I mean there's definitely days that I
Speaker 4: don't love about it, but I can talk to my
Speaker 4: kids so much so openly about like today wasn't a
Speaker 4: great day. I don't feel amazing about that, and they
Speaker 4: are like, yeah, I love you anyway.
Speaker 2: One thing that you did that I loved is that
Speaker 2: Like a couple months ago, Robin and I were sitting
Speaker 2: on my front porch.
Speaker 1: We're both bawling. I'll just be really honest. They were like,
Speaker 1: we're both sobbing, and like you said to me.
Speaker 2: And I thought this was like so beautiful as you were,
Speaker 2: Like the girls saw me crying and they had a
Speaker 2: very sweet reaction to that. That was like I never
Speaker 2: forgot And I thought about how like in that moment,
Speaker 2: like you taught them such compassion and like I don't know,
Speaker 2: and it carried on. It wasn't like a moment like
Speaker 2: they're young. They they saw you, they interpreted it, and
Speaker 2: then a couple days later, didn't one of them did
Speaker 2: something so sweet that I'm.
Speaker 4: Like, oh, yeah, I actually my mom is staying with
Speaker 4: me this week, and she we have this calendar where
Speaker 4: we're writing like stuff that's coming up, and at the
Speaker 4: bottom of it there are there's a daily affirmation that
Speaker 4: Cooper wrote my nine cult and I think that's what
Speaker 4: you're referring to.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 4: Upset like they were. They were aware that I was
Speaker 4: having an emotionally like really hard time days and I
Speaker 4: wasn't trying to hide it from them. I wasn't like
Speaker 4: completely falling apart in front of them, but I was
Speaker 4: like leaking out of my eyes on like lower energy.
Speaker 1: And told them this.
Speaker 4: And then I put the two younger ones to bed,
Speaker 4: and while I did that, she wrote a daily affirmation
Speaker 4: for each day and like pinned it.
Speaker 1: To this.
Speaker 4: And didn't and then she didn't even call it out
Speaker 4: to me. I just came out from putting the other
Speaker 4: two to bed and she was in the kitchen, and
Speaker 4: then I happened to see it and I was like, wait,
Speaker 4: did you write those? She was like yeah, I just
Speaker 4: thought I was thinking about it. And she didn't even
Speaker 4: say like this is for you or whatever, but it
Speaker 4: was like clearly she was connecting things and wrote these
Speaker 4: like a little daily affirmation, like one of them is
Speaker 4: every version of me is loved, and the other one
Speaker 4: is something like I am resilient and can overcome obstacles.
Speaker 1: Like right, I know.
Speaker 4: And then and so I was sharing this with my
Speaker 4: mom again this morning. I mean I just started bawling. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it was a release of a lot of different emotions,
Speaker 4: but the primary one was holy shit, like I'm going
Speaker 4: to be okay and my kids are going to be okay,
Speaker 4: because I'm so open with them with emotional things, highs
Speaker 4: and lows. And my six year old Quinn, one thing
Speaker 4: that she will say if like I'm teery, like whether
Speaker 4: it's good or bad, She'll be like, Mom, are those
Speaker 4: happy tears?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Check because you're happy right right? And it's just so sweet.
Speaker 4: And even we had a Quinn and I butt heads
Speaker 4: the most, probably because she is me in a lot
Speaker 4: of ways, and we had the other night just were
Speaker 4: having a hard time and she kind of like put
Speaker 4: herself on a chair like in the other room, was
Speaker 4: like I just need a minute. Yeah, And even the
Speaker 4: ability for a six year old to be like I
Speaker 4: need a minute for my body to come down. And
Speaker 4: then she to me and was like can you hold me?
Speaker 4: Because she knew that like that would help both of
Speaker 4: us self regulate, And it was like, you're doing better
Speaker 4: at this than I am. I know, and that is amazing,
Speaker 4: Like obviously I'm doing something right. And I never would
Speaker 4: have been capable of doing that a few years ago,
Speaker 4: like if I was I was very lonely and going
Speaker 4: through like a really rough period of time like when
Speaker 4: we my husband and I were still married and before
Speaker 4: kind of everything unfolded, and there were plenty of days
Speaker 4: where I was like barely holding it together, but I
Speaker 4: wasn't letting them see that because I didn't know how
Speaker 4: to communicate it to that way. And You're busy taking
Speaker 4: care of him, and I was taking care of him
Speaker 4: and all of them. And I was younger, and it
Speaker 4: was I was carrying a lot, but I didn't feel
Speaker 4: like I had the bandwidth to care for myself. And
Speaker 4: now like, yes, of course I'm taking care of my
Speaker 4: kids needs, but I'm putting myself first, right because I
Speaker 4: know that I am so much more capable of caring
Speaker 4: for them and everything else in my life when I'm
Speaker 4: taking care of But.
Speaker 2: I also, in addition to that, feel like, if you like,
Speaker 2: look at we all say we want our kids to
Speaker 2: be happy.
Speaker 1: That's what we want.
Speaker 2: We want our kids to be happy. It doesn't matter
Speaker 2: all these other things. But how people are happy is
Speaker 2: when they have friendships and like they can bond with people.
Speaker 1: And I think like when.
Speaker 2: You teach kids that you teach them how to be
Speaker 2: a good friend to other people in the future, Like
Speaker 2: I for sure if they don't have that skill set.
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of women who don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I would say, like I meet people and
Speaker 2: I'm very dialed in on what their ability is to
Speaker 2: connect on a friendship level or be trustworthy or be
Speaker 2: whatever the case may be. When kids are able to
Speaker 2: see you sad, it gives them permission to do that
Speaker 2: and then also get help. So it's like that's how
Speaker 2: you become friends. If everything's always just great fine.
Speaker 1: Then what life like? Yeah, that sucks.
Speaker 4: And if you're just like oh great fine, or leaving
Speaker 4: things at that surface, then like you're not really addressing
Speaker 4: whatever is underneath, right, And really you need to be
Speaker 4: able to fully feel like secure and trust yourself totally
Speaker 4: to be able to do that for anyone else.
Speaker 2: And really that's what I would say if someone was like,
Speaker 2: what do I want for my children? I want them
Speaker 2: to have that capacity, Yeah, so that their life is
Speaker 2: full because the punches are gonna come.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, the punches are gonna come. The fights in
Speaker 4: middle school or high school or adulthood are gonna come.
Speaker 4: People are gonna do things that they shouldn't do. But
Speaker 4: if you can recognize that, like ultimately you can love yourself, right,
Speaker 4: You're gonna be fine and have the tools to like
Speaker 4: get yeah, and have the tools to like write get
Speaker 4: through anything. I mean, but it takes knowing yourself and
Speaker 4: knowing who you are and boy jeans and a pair
Speaker 4: of powerful.
Speaker 1: Boy jeans exactly. I think that's a good place to wrap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for filling in for Melissa.
Speaker 1: My absolute pleasure. Melissa is like just.
Speaker 2: Literally she has like forty hours worth of stuff to
Speaker 2: do in.
Speaker 1: Like ten hours. Good luck with that, Melissa.
Speaker 2: But let me give you one little fun tidbit she
Speaker 2: just ordered, did you see Yes? Okay, so that's about
Speaker 2: to be our weekend. We're all getting on the slip
Speaker 2: and side. Is that happening?
Speaker 4: Absolutely shit?
Speaker 2: Okay do we put Is this the thing where you
Speaker 2: do the dish soap and you really get this thing
Speaker 2: rarin that?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: That takes it to a new level. Okay for sure.
Speaker 4: All right, well it's on.
Speaker 3: All right, goodbye, my friend, goodbye.
Speaker 1: I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast. Rate us
Speaker 1: and write a review on Apple podcast or Spotify. We
Speaker 1: love listener feedback.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to share your story, email us at
Speaker 2: Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's Melissa M. E. L I s A and Ali A. L.
Speaker 1: L I at
Speaker 2: Gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at Lesbian
Speaker 2: Chronicles