Speaker 1: Hey, folks, I'm good evening. Welcome once again to another
Speaker 1: money space with me carlu Aja. On this space, we're
Speaker 1: talking money, the economy and of course finance. Want to
Speaker 1: get those topics important and in front of you so
Speaker 1: that way you can become a better investor and of
Speaker 1: course a better citizen. And this week, guys, we're talking
Speaker 1: crude oil, NNPC and energy in Nigeria. Right and just
Speaker 1: liasier results. There are twenty twenty four results. If you
Speaker 1: haven't seen it, it looks like a banger about as
Speaker 1: if four trillion naira in net profits not net profits
Speaker 1: with media paid all their expenses and we made trillions,
Speaker 1: which is going to be like most of the might
Speaker 1: be surprised. And NPC for a long time very opaque.
Speaker 1: I wasn't given us returns or results. Now we're getting
Speaker 1: monthly reports on the output from an NPC, we're getting
Speaker 1: monthly reports on oil sales, and we're now getting there
Speaker 1: annual report. Even though twenty twenty four, which is better,
Speaker 1: you know, it's better than what we had in the past.
Speaker 1: And well, of course please with the with the result
Speaker 1: that we've seen, so we said to just talk around it.
Speaker 1: Use that report to just talk really around what NNPC
Speaker 1: is doing and the oil sets on Nigeria, also to
Speaker 1: do with the pipelines, the EQK pipelines, Dangletar Refinery, all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. I have a guessed I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to be here with us. I'm just gonna wait for
Speaker 1: him to hop in and then once he does, we
Speaker 1: can start off the session today and have his expertise
Speaker 1: basically guide us this very very technical topic. So we
Speaker 1: just want to have someone that is really going to
Speaker 1: be there with us. So then just make sure I
Speaker 1: have him here and then we can get going. Yep, Okay,
Speaker 1: how you guys doing. I hope you guys, I get
Speaker 1: ready for the new year. We've had our of fresh
Speaker 1: education space right for two weeks now. We've done the income,
Speaker 1: we've done the expenses. Last week we did the the
Speaker 1: the assets, assets and liabilities, and then next time we're
Speaker 1: gonna be we're gonna do the asset on locations. So
Speaker 1: hanging there, guys, is gonna be a last session we
Speaker 1: do the asset allocations and then of course we'll randle
Speaker 1: that financial health check. My guest is here, he's just
Speaker 1: gonna log in real quick to be a speaker and
Speaker 1: then we can have the space up and running. So
Speaker 1: thanks folks for hanging out here with us and all that.
Speaker 1: I do appreciate you guys doing that every weekend, seven
Speaker 1: pm more, second time with me, all right, just waiting
Speaker 1: for Kelvin to accept the mic and then we'll get started.
Speaker 1: There you goes, yeah, just gonna hit the accept Let
Speaker 1: me stand that again to you and because we're going
Speaker 1: to have like a more like a fifteen or twenty
Speaker 1: minute chat with Kelvin. If you want to ask a
Speaker 1: question a little drill request to speak, send me a
Speaker 1: dm he since he's speaking, I'll be able to read
Speaker 1: your dms more this time. Usually when I'm speaking is
Speaker 1: harder to rer dms and then you keep on talking.
Speaker 1: But I think our guess it's here with us. HII Kelvin,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the space with me. Kelvin, I can hear you,
Speaker 1: yeah loud and Claire he couldn't do it.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: You doing, sir, it's been yeah, yeah, thanks for always
Speaker 1: being there where. We don't need your expertise. We do
Speaker 1: have preducting and not taking for granted. I mean we
Speaker 1: don't do a quick introduction and then we can just
Speaker 1: have that conversation of the fastide conversation that we usually have.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a day right now.
Speaker 2: That Yeah, but I have a few hats where you know,
Speaker 2: my name is Kelvin. I consult for.
Speaker 3: The government, the national summary side and the executive side,
Speaker 3: a few companies in private sector, and the few concerns
Speaker 3: in business as an entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1: That that's somewhere gotcha. I mean, we'll take that. We'll
Speaker 1: take that from you. Kevin will tear from you. So Kevin,
Speaker 1: Now the backdrop is the four n NPC and our report.
Speaker 1: But before we get into that, could you just get
Speaker 1: an overview. Lots of stuff has happened, new laws happening past.
Speaker 1: I see the GDPs being world because of COULDE oil.
Speaker 2: We've got some.
Speaker 1: Gas headlines that have been very very good. Even though
Speaker 1: Dan go to side dang whatte wants to increase output?
Speaker 1: I heard his bringing into the Americans to do that
Speaker 1: for him. We'll just give us an overview of the
Speaker 1: milieu of the Nigron energy ecostom. What happened, what should
Speaker 1: we put our eyes on? What should we looking out
Speaker 1: for in the total ecosystem.
Speaker 2: As it were? Come A very good question you know.
Speaker 3: When the president changed the board and management of hopes
Speaker 3: are very high in the April that this was finally
Speaker 3: going to be the.
Speaker 2: Beginning of the new year. I remember somebody who is
Speaker 2: like a senior. We're having a conversations a countment.
Speaker 3: This is the final act, this is the last chance
Speaker 3: that the entity has to actually turn the connor and
Speaker 3: become the pill in the backbone.
Speaker 2: But the biggest problem I've seen that NBC.
Speaker 3: Has today is the governor's problem. There's a serious governance problem,
Speaker 3: and that cascades into all the other issues I had.
Speaker 3: And the governor's problem is that the State House, the
Speaker 3: State House, the presidential villa as the seat of power,
Speaker 3: and all the other people who surrounds the corridors of power,
Speaker 3: they just do not want to let go of NNPC.
Speaker 3: And I've said this openly to the government. I've said
Speaker 3: this in private meetings. I've said this on TV interviews,
Speaker 3: I've said this on radio. I've said this to the
Speaker 3: government directly, that it needs to let go of NNPC.
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, this past week I was
Speaker 3: on Channel CV on lunchim politics and I said it
Speaker 3: that the presidency needs to let.
Speaker 2: Go of n NPC.
Speaker 3: The only way to save that entity is to let
Speaker 3: go of it. Let go sending directives and memos nmpcs
Speaker 3: limited level company, we have no business taking instructions from
Speaker 3: the villa.
Speaker 2: It's not that a corporation. It's a limited liability company.
Speaker 3: The situation where you have membos coming, you know, every
Speaker 3: week to a limited liability company, it's it's absolved. It's
Speaker 3: absolved because by organizational structure. If you see the appointment letters,
Speaker 3: the two appointment letters, because there was only one that
Speaker 3: was made known to the public that was flying around
Speaker 3: on social media, you see that what you're do as
Speaker 3: the coordinating us of the economy who actually signed.
Speaker 2: Off on their letters of appointments.
Speaker 3: He was the one that signed up, which means that
Speaker 3: a NPCE is supposed to report to a beneficial owner
Speaker 3: that is the Ministry of Finance Incorporated. And in the
Speaker 3: proposed amendments of PI it says that I think sections
Speaker 3: either sections seven, nine or that six.
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, it's going to be amended.
Speaker 3: Mistruct Patrolum corporate type will be collapsed and MOFI will
Speaker 3: get full one hundred percent control as a beneficial owner
Speaker 3: of an NPCY.
Speaker 2: On behalf of the Federal Government of Nigeria.
Speaker 3: So for me, I have but a loss at how
Speaker 3: you still send memos and give directions and orders to
Speaker 3: a limited liability company. The board and management are supposed
Speaker 3: to report to the shareholder, and the shareholder is a
Speaker 3: beneficial owner.
Speaker 2: That's Mofie. Mophi reports to the minister.
Speaker 3: The minister reports to the shareholders, and the shareholders now
Speaker 3: and not just the presidency because the federal government is
Speaker 3: just one of the shareholders. The federal government of Nigeria
Speaker 3: is different from the federal governments.
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't understand the federation Federation.
Speaker 3: The federation is made up of the federal states and
Speaker 3: local governments. So the shareholder is not just the presidency.
Speaker 3: The presidency represents, you know, the federal government, but you
Speaker 3: have the states, you have the local governments. So it's
Speaker 3: not the job of the presidency to give orders the
Speaker 3: limited library to the company and break that chain of
Speaker 3: command in the organizational and governance structure of the entity.
Speaker 2: That's the biggest challenge that it faces today.
Speaker 1: So I mean, that's that's that's the key one there.
Speaker 1: In terms of like you said, n NPC is still
Speaker 1: under the the we've done the pay per change, but
Speaker 1: operationally it's still an at m of the quote and
Speaker 1: quote presidency that that is fantastic. Do you want to
Speaker 1: turn into the report now? And the last time you
Speaker 1: were here we talked about the a k K. I'm
Speaker 1: still wanted their upjects on that. I saw a report
Speaker 1: in the papers that AKKK had crossed the river and
Speaker 1: was now sort of like in has now started to
Speaker 1: move out toward the north. And the annual report I
Speaker 1: saw n NPC had had Galada, had Cano made a
Speaker 1: green and all that's any or a take and give
Speaker 1: us on the pipeline from the south south or go
Speaker 1: to the law.
Speaker 2: The pipeline.
Speaker 3: You know, obit three fits into AKK because obit there
Speaker 3: is supposed to provide gas goes from the southern side
Speaker 3: in the those states and then from the eastern side
Speaker 3: you know river states, Aogo across the River Niger. You know,
Speaker 3: they did resumed our directional drilling what is called HDD,
Speaker 3: and we're able to cross the river Niger. Finally after
Speaker 3: spending a shiploads of money, the AKK projects that links
Speaker 3: they will be three down to.
Speaker 2: Cannon. You know, they're still working on the Cardinal leg
Speaker 2: I think they're not done yet.
Speaker 3: Is one of the most expensive pipeline projects I've.
Speaker 2: Seen in the world, has four point two million last parkilometer.
Speaker 3: It's it's double what it costs to even build an
Speaker 3: export pipeline. You know, I think last time I was
Speaker 3: we're talking about pipeline construction costs, and I mentioned that
Speaker 3: when Russia was going to build there was a practicship
Speaker 3: between the Russian government and the Chinese government rose Nefts
Speaker 3: gas from and SNOC. They built a five thousand kilometer
Speaker 3: pipe from Russia through Siberia and Mongolia to China to
Speaker 3: take the expot gas from Russia to China, and they
Speaker 3: did spend up to half cost pakilometer. What is costing
Speaker 3: an NBC to build a k k cost partilomit which
Speaker 3: which also explains this is about Laber's Calamba costa is absurd.
Speaker 3: You know, for the longest time Dandurans have been asking
Speaker 3: the Minister of Work what is the cost pa kilometer?
Speaker 3: I just refuse to reveal what the cost paculum is.
Speaker 3: Why why are you afraid or refusing to release what
Speaker 3: the cost pacilumter is? If you're sure that you know
Speaker 3: everything is done through redal.
Speaker 2: Process at four two million dollars parkilometer.
Speaker 3: You know, it's the most expensive pipeline project for six
Speaker 3: hundred fourty kilometers.
Speaker 1: But is their progress on it though, So we're moving along.
Speaker 1: The is going to get this gas.
Speaker 3: The most difficult part of that was the crossing of
Speaker 3: the river Niger, which they've done with horizontal directional. Really
Speaker 3: that's the most difficult part of it. But then you
Speaker 3: still need to inject. You still need figures to inject
Speaker 3: into those pipes and ensure that.
Speaker 4: There is.
Speaker 3: You know, up time for the pipeline and there is
Speaker 3: high pressure of the pipes.
Speaker 2: To supply gas.
Speaker 3: You know, there's going to be a pressure metery and
Speaker 3: reduction station Gogalada because n NPC has an I p
Speaker 3: P which Chinese EPCs that is building an IPP in Goglead.
Speaker 2: You know, gas and power parts of an MPC wants
Speaker 2: to go into business. Yeah, yeah, I don't know about
Speaker 2: midle Gree, you know midle Gree. Yeah, it's in terms
Speaker 2: of security is just better than what it was when
Speaker 2: years ago. But I'm still you know, I don't know
Speaker 2: what the security situation is and how that to affect.
Speaker 3: Because you know, brandies keep vander and terrorists, they keep
Speaker 3: vanalyzing power, power lines.
Speaker 2: And transmission infrastructure in the Barner States. So I don't
Speaker 2: know how they're going to manage with that.
Speaker 3: But I think the addition of an IPP in Abuja
Speaker 3: is really going to beneficial for ADC, you know, and.
Speaker 2: Part generation in the city and surrounding areas.
Speaker 3: And you know, I've always said that the power business
Speaker 3: is one business that NNBC has what they call a
Speaker 3: comparative advantage with because of.
Speaker 2: Gas, you know, but it needs to build the pipeline.
Speaker 5: Infrastructure, you know, and they needs to also be a
Speaker 5: serious round table because you know, the bonds that the
Speaker 5: government set up to pay the part generating companies, I
Speaker 5: think over for trillion NUR they hit an impasse. The
Speaker 5: government is asking the generation companies to write off nearly
Speaker 5: two trillion night of the moneys that were that they
Speaker 5: claim have been old.
Speaker 2: You know, the power companies are saying, no, that you're
Speaker 2: not going to write it off.
Speaker 3: It's going to set them back, you know. So thats
Speaker 3: it an impass and call. If you look at the
Speaker 3: power if you look at the power value chain, you know,
Speaker 3: you see that there are several issues There are several issues,
Speaker 3: but there's a major issue with pricing for gas, pricing
Speaker 3: for power, and theft, theft, commercial thefts, technical losses. Right,
Speaker 3: Nigeria does not have strong legislation and enforcement for people
Speaker 3: who still power deliberately. Number one, there's issue with technical losses.
Speaker 3: There's commercial losses which are theft, then there's technical losses.
Speaker 2: Then there's the issue of pricing for power.
Speaker 3: You have a situation where for band by two d
Speaker 3: in Nigeria, for example, it's about thirty four cents pack
Speaker 3: in Roberts. You know, this is a political issues, so
Speaker 3: I don't like getting into it because whenever you bring
Speaker 3: up this issue and you bring up the economics of
Speaker 3: it and the reality of the economics of it, people
Speaker 3: are always very in their feelings.
Speaker 2: I don't blame Nigerians because the Nigerians.
Speaker 3: Are going through the ricer The economy is tough for
Speaker 3: a lot of people. A lot of people cannot afford
Speaker 3: to play house rights. You know, people are struggling to eat,
Speaker 3: people are struggling to do basic stuff. So you know,
Speaker 3: they have a right to complain about increasing power courts.
Speaker 3: But the reality on the ground and this is this
Speaker 3: is the result of inflation and effects revaluation and how
Speaker 3: that has affected the price of power over the last
Speaker 3: five to six years. Is that par are thirty to
Speaker 3: five cents per kilo ads is just not realistic. Whey
Speaker 3: is realistic? Is anywhere between ten to twelve to fourteen
Speaker 3: cents parkilo ads? You know, And if you can't price
Speaker 3: power reasonably, then it means that the generating companies are
Speaker 3: going to struggle to pay for gas. You know, about
Speaker 3: nineteen or twenty seven plans today nineteen of about two
Speaker 3: thirty four plants run on gas, you know, and if
Speaker 3: they are struggling.
Speaker 2: To pay for gas, it also means that the aggregators
Speaker 2: will not be able to meet up or have.
Speaker 3: An incentive to invest or sustain you know, maintaining high
Speaker 3: pressure on those pipes because you know, gas goes through processes.
Speaker 3: For onshore gas, you have to if you're not rejecting
Speaker 3: it to do well optimization, you're trapping, you're selling it
Speaker 3: to know, to calibrate pressure, you're selling it to central
Speaker 3: processing facility. You know, you're converting from wet gas, you're treating,
Speaker 3: and then you're separating those gas and you maintain these
Speaker 3: pipes or generation and if you look at it under
Speaker 3: domestic gas delivery obligation sections.
Speaker 2: One way of the PI gas is two.
Speaker 3: Dollars tatisents par and standard keeping fit pipeline transportation because
Speaker 3: it's one dollar tatan sense per standard clibic fit.
Speaker 2: So you're looking at anywhere.
Speaker 3: Around maybe thirty dollars sixteen cents per standard cubic fit.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: So these three problems are the major problems for power. Now,
Speaker 3: if you come back to the issue about NNPC IVP,
Speaker 3: my biggest worry for an NPC going into power, which
Speaker 3: is a very good business for them and they.
Speaker 2: Have comparative advantage with, is how can you manage these.
Speaker 3: Financial modeling issues and structural issues that the government lacks
Speaker 3: a political will to address because it's afraid that if
Speaker 3: it goes ahead and says that we're.
Speaker 2: Going to increase the price of power, there's.
Speaker 3: Going to be a protest for good reason, because the
Speaker 3: government has just carry reckless.
Speaker 1: By the way, you know, all right, all right, so
Speaker 1: let's look that that's a good way to introduce the
Speaker 1: whole topic. Let's go into the NNPC report. You know,
Speaker 1: as a bit civilian, right, I look at this report.
Speaker 1: I see net income at five point four trillion David
Speaker 1: and four point three trillion any esper Shure twenty seven.
Speaker 1: This is better than any results I've seen from Nigerian
Speaker 1: banks with angles cement anyone. You know, natural grass production
Speaker 1: looks up here, cruder production. This is two two millions
Speaker 1: a day, although I know it's about one point five
Speaker 1: leaders report. I so in terms of output, just as
Speaker 1: an industry person, what is this report? Give me the good,
Speaker 1: the bad, and the you know, the doubtful about this report?
Speaker 1: What is good about this an report? What should we hear?
Speaker 1: What should we be happy about this? Four are reperformance NPC.
Speaker 2: You know, if you look at the coastal sales you
Speaker 2: you will have a good lave. Yeah, you look at
Speaker 2: the custom sales.
Speaker 1: For that's the that's the that's the good one first,
Speaker 1: because there has something good?
Speaker 2: Is there? Is there a good one? Is there a
Speaker 2: good one?
Speaker 3: Saying they did that's a billion dollars in sales? And
Speaker 3: then you did about seventy four percent cost of income?
Speaker 1: You know, so five point four net income to you?
Speaker 1: If I mean I'm pining doubles advocated. If if a
Speaker 1: drunk company is doing five point four net, let's just
Speaker 1: cash to the John Federation for the five trillion.
Speaker 2: It's it's colors, it's it's it's insane.
Speaker 3: It's okay from five trillion five point four percent for
Speaker 3: five point four trillion nine especially when you look at
Speaker 3: the cost of sales, it doesn't make any sense. And
Speaker 3: really it doesn't make any sense. It's because and I'll
Speaker 3: break down the cost of sales, you know, from the
Speaker 3: cost of sales. When I break down the cost of sales,
Speaker 3: you begin to see all the loopholes and see all
Speaker 3: the issues.
Speaker 2: And then I will try to do an X ray
Speaker 2: of day of.
Speaker 3: The group, the major areas of the group, and talk
Speaker 3: about what I've observed, what the holes are, you know,
Speaker 3: and how I think that this financial statement is just
Speaker 3: is like complete window dressing for a very very horrible and.
Speaker 2: Bad situation that they have. They deleted this report for.
Speaker 3: A long time because I'm aware this report, this a
Speaker 3: non financial statement, has been ready since July August, and
Speaker 3: it's been delayed until now.
Speaker 2: And I don't know why it.
Speaker 3: Was delayed until now. You know, if you if you
Speaker 3: look at flu station expenses CALU flu station expense first
Speaker 3: of all, in twenty twenty four, I think I'm not
Speaker 3: exactly sure, but total crudeoily lifted for all for all
Speaker 3: the operators JV Partners, PSC Partners, JV Partners, Direct Producing
Speaker 3: and NPC FTSA to crudely lifted.
Speaker 2: Was around five hundred sixty six million barrels.
Speaker 3: And an MPC says that what it lifted as a
Speaker 3: share of that is turned round two point three million virals,
Speaker 3: which means actually be net of royalties and tax oil.
Speaker 2: That's what it says, Okay, calub The share of an.
Speaker 3: MPC on a cumulative average basis, if you look at it,
Speaker 3: is anywhere between around fifty third point six percent growth
Speaker 3: of royalty and tax oil. So how are you lifting
Speaker 3: two around two point thirty million virus from five hundred
Speaker 3: and six six million.
Speaker 2: Viruls of crew. That's the first question I have for
Speaker 2: them as a first question.
Speaker 1: So essence in essence you are seeing the lifting is
Speaker 1: when I getting the fee income or listening is the
Speaker 1: volume is too small? Ultimately very the volume.
Speaker 2: Needs to be orditaied your general or federation of This
Speaker 2: is job. This is work.
Speaker 3: This is job of your general feduction to look at
Speaker 3: it properly, to review all the contracts and not just
Speaker 3: rely on the accounts for REGI revenue generating agencies or
Speaker 3: the accounts. Is his job to look at it properly,
Speaker 3: to do a thorough forensic audit. Look at the calibration
Speaker 3: of the lacked units, these accountability costly transfer units. Look
Speaker 3: at all the flow bitters, flow stations, look at the
Speaker 3: wellheads and caliber. I've always said that Nigeria is one
Speaker 3: of very few countries in the world, not the only,
Speaker 3: one of very few countries in the world where there
Speaker 3: is no hydroacable accounting structure or framework where you can
Speaker 3: tell how much codel comes to surface on a daily basis,
Speaker 3: on a real time basis, like it's KANDAD that shows
Speaker 3: you what is happening in real time, not one department
Speaker 3: or agency of government sending paper reports to the villa
Speaker 3: after forty eight hours and then the comment said, over
Speaker 3: today we did one point five two million barrels cross
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five. People are preparing to report manually
Speaker 3: to tell the government and what could came to surface.
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous. That's the first question.
Speaker 1: So the question is you ask, is what they are reporting?
Speaker 2: Is it actually what it is? That's the first question.
Speaker 3: If you ask number two, even at what they are
Speaker 3: reporting fine sixty six.
Speaker 2: Million barrels two hundred and two point three million.
Speaker 3: Barrels, which should be net of royalty oil to the
Speaker 3: UPRC that goes to the Accomptient General of the Federation.
Speaker 2: Lets the cost of.
Speaker 3: The management fee for UPRCY and then that's oil that
Speaker 3: goes to federating narvenue service. Yeah, is it what actually
Speaker 3: is due to the fedration? That's the second question wh
Speaker 3: you ask number three calub all crude.
Speaker 2: Oil that is due to an npc PSC oil JV.
Speaker 3: Oil direct production oil goes training EMPIACE trading and this
Speaker 3: crude that goes training EMPISCE trading, a commissioner, a fees
Speaker 3: charged per for trade minutes, whether it's.
Speaker 2: Going to dangle t Dangote is paying.
Speaker 3: Dangote is paying an average of two dollars perblate bar
Speaker 3: barrel as a separate fee outside of the cost of
Speaker 3: the crude oil on the global markets. And which is
Speaker 3: what he has always complained about that how does it
Speaker 3: make sense that n MPC is a share role that
Speaker 3: in my company you have seven percent if within the
Speaker 3: company you're still selling cruders the million dollars.
Speaker 2: And attaching his he an extra commission.
Speaker 1: So emphasis charging itself invariably.
Speaker 2: You're charging yourself invariably.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the crude oil. In fact, in fact,
Speaker 3: on this issue this year, the Chief Commission Executive NUPS
Speaker 3: intervened and asks an emphasis trading to cap the commission
Speaker 3: it charges.
Speaker 2: For barrel to fifty cents. They did it for you. Well,
Speaker 2: then they reverted.
Speaker 3: So if for example, you're charging an average of two
Speaker 3: dollars for barrel for trading the crude oil that belongs
Speaker 3: to the federation, it means that on two hundred and
Speaker 3: two point five million barrels, you should have ended at
Speaker 3: least at least four hundred and four million dollars at
Speaker 3: least in commissions, just commissions alone, just commissions alone. These
Speaker 3: commissions are not reported to the Federal Service, by the way,
Speaker 3: because in either this is major even if they say
Speaker 3: they have an office in Metam, but their major operation
Speaker 3: is in Dubai the DC.
Speaker 2: Right, where is the.
Speaker 3: Commissions end on crude oil traded for the oil that
Speaker 3: belongs to the federation. Why are they not paying pacts
Speaker 3: on that commission?
Speaker 2: Less there their expenses to the Nigerian government. The same
Speaker 2: thing goes for the for.
Speaker 3: The other companies, the all the IOCs, the independence you
Speaker 3: know that are listing oil from Nigeria then gooting for example,
Speaker 3: the same thing. In fact, it's even how if you
Speaker 3: look at the cost sheets for the different blends of crude,
Speaker 3: there's evenly a blend of Coude Bunger on Bunger crude. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it plays about five dollars twenty cents per barrel as
Speaker 3: commission separate commission, which means that if he's buying one
Speaker 3: million barrels of bunger's paying an extra five point two
Speaker 3: million dollars as commission as a separate commission. If could
Speaker 3: all price sixty five dollars a barrel, he's buying sixty
Speaker 3: five dollars a barrel, then he's paid another five dollars
Speaker 3: twenty cents per barrel.
Speaker 1: How do you now classify that in your what's it
Speaker 1: called your.
Speaker 3: Crackspread like you imagines as a refiner when you're going
Speaker 3: to translate it to pricing in the local markets, how
Speaker 3: do you not translate that extra commission into the markets.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask a question. Let me ask a question.
Speaker 1: Eler this year presenting both said that the c minster
Speaker 1: who was it the CBN should take over the revenue
Speaker 1: returns from the n NPC that felt like they should
Speaker 1: report to the CBN. I think it was this year
Speaker 1: he said last year. Does that have any beer into
Speaker 1: this numbers? We are seen.
Speaker 3: How many how many people in the Central Bank of Nigeria,
Speaker 3: you know in hair have the technical depth and knowledge
Speaker 3: of the oil and sector and actually have people on
Speaker 3: the ground, so they are they are live because they're as.
Speaker 2: Good as it's what an MPC gives them that they
Speaker 2: will take.
Speaker 3: That day on the ground to see what is going
Speaker 3: on on the ground. At day on the ground, If
Speaker 3: an mp says this is what came to us, that's
Speaker 3: what they would take. That's why I've always said that
Speaker 3: the government needs to set up and account the firm
Speaker 3: and miter and and creates its end to end for
Speaker 3: measuring output on a daily basis. Really you don't need
Speaker 3: to be sending paper reports. There's a scatter is connected
Speaker 3: to you know, computers and you're seeing on a real
Speaker 3: time basis how much crudel hawmred gas, what is fled,
Speaker 3: what is trapped, what is rejected? Only a real time business,
Speaker 3: you're seeing the penalties because as they're flaring there's a
Speaker 3: penalty based on the PIA the gazette that a your
Speaker 3: PRS has developed from the particular part of the PI
Speaker 3: that talks about gas flaring penalties. And you're seeing what
Speaker 3: the companies of turtles would pay based on the gas
Speaker 3: that they flat.
Speaker 1: It's so it goes into your revenue structure automatically.
Speaker 2: So the question I have for you is.
Speaker 3: Does the city and have people on the ground to
Speaker 3: actually measure and say this is what they give us
Speaker 3: in payer reports and this is what is on the
Speaker 3: ground and the comparison it matches.
Speaker 2: Do they have people on crowd so it's what they
Speaker 2: give them that they take.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've talked around the report's let's go where
Speaker 1: do you want to go to next? Because we skipped
Speaker 1: to five. I'm reviewing the constant you know, Okay.
Speaker 3: Because you know, because you know you say, say they
Speaker 3: do for the five trillion, for five six trillion.
Speaker 2: Gross profitable twelve point something trillion, then.
Speaker 3: The dimlet of five point four, and we have things
Speaker 3: like flull station expenses. You know, I wouldn't want to
Speaker 3: start going and breaking down all the things line items
Speaker 3: are goes into managing fuel stations, you know, but one
Speaker 3: point seven billion dollars as flull station expenses two.
Speaker 1: Point five trillion in the coating dollars one point one
Speaker 1: point billion dollars.
Speaker 3: What do you have here as full station experences is
Speaker 3: two point five trillion There for three hundred and sixty
Speaker 3: five callent, that is for managing one hundred eighty seven
Speaker 3: full stations. And not all of them are I SIS.
Speaker 3: Not all of them are in SIS one of that
Speaker 3: it's seven flu stations. What you have here is two
Speaker 3: point five three and which which is the equipalent of
Speaker 3: one point seven billion dollars on two hundred and two.
Speaker 1: Million barons of code. Okay, I just want to have
Speaker 1: you have direct well expenses.
Speaker 2: Now, let me explain.
Speaker 3: Direct well expenses are expenses on producing wales from Wales
Speaker 3: that NMPC goes on represents that it has FTSS on
Speaker 3: because NMPC has a company does not have the capacity
Speaker 3: right now to drill crude and trap gas by itself,
Speaker 3: so it goes through contracts and brings in companies through
Speaker 3: what they called Financial and Technical Service Agreement ftss YEP
Speaker 3: those direct will expenses.
Speaker 2: N MPC said that in twenty.
Speaker 3: Twenty five, twenty four it spent two point five trillion.
Speaker 2: Nine on direct well expenses. That's another one seven billion dollars.
Speaker 1: Do you know what it was before? So we can
Speaker 1: have a context to the numbers, like if it's one
Speaker 1: point one billion dollars and the world doing maybe two hundred,
Speaker 1: then we know it is high.
Speaker 3: We don't have to look at what it was before.
Speaker 3: What we have to look at is how many blocks
Speaker 3: do they have? Does any p L from my MPDC
Speaker 3: has direct control of that they are classifying direct well
Speaker 3: expenses on yes, And then we go to the technical
Speaker 3: engineering site and say these are.
Speaker 2: Planning items for you know, managing wells real time. You
Speaker 2: know this is a benchmark for other places.
Speaker 3: You know, the terrains are different, so it's not going
Speaker 3: to be the same because of producing in Nigeria or
Speaker 3: managing the weld in Nigeria is not going to be
Speaker 3: the same. But because of managing the well in Guyana
Speaker 3: or in Texas, they're different. Nigeria is moical terrain. But
Speaker 3: even at that, you know, if you do benchmarking, you
Speaker 3: can almost always tell if this costs are reasonable or not.
Speaker 3: How much crew that you produce it. Any pl is
Speaker 3: not doing more than fifty.
Speaker 2: Thousand barrels a day.
Speaker 3: So are you saying that you spent the more for
Speaker 3: seven billion dollars on wales that are opposing more than
Speaker 3: tow hundred fifty thousand barrals a day?
Speaker 2: Does it make sense? Gotcha?
Speaker 1: So the volume is down, but the cost of managing
Speaker 1: those wells is up or staying up. No less the
Speaker 1: cost is up.
Speaker 2: You could could.
Speaker 3: Handling and pop charges. They said they spent one billion
Speaker 3: dollars on crude handling. The handling of coude and judges
Speaker 3: are pots. If you do a breakdown, you your time
Speaker 3: will not permit us. So or you know, these these
Speaker 3: days are very technical. These numbers does doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: It just doesn't make any sense because they are they
Speaker 3: are benchmarks. There are other companies around the world doing
Speaker 3: the same business and empth is doing and they have benchmarks.
Speaker 3: So when you look at that cost of sale, you
Speaker 3: can almost always say, okay, like why are you people
Speaker 3: even coming about these numbers extat or those Are.
Speaker 2: They actually doing it for audit or they're just following
Speaker 2: you know what you give to them. What's the job
Speaker 2: of an auditor?
Speaker 1: Gotcha? Okay, So I have a question, John when I
Speaker 1: don't know when to ask. It's about the investment of
Speaker 1: an NPC, but I let you continue. But I want
Speaker 1: to come back to an NPC investment and refineries if
Speaker 1: you may, but I'll let you finish. We've talked about
Speaker 1: I look at pipp cost.
Speaker 2: Oh five you know.
Speaker 1: I you know because I look at the cost of sales.
Speaker 1: It's high for me. But I'm not an industry guy.
Speaker 1: I saw what I just picked entertainment. The entertainment cost
Speaker 1: is more than the cost for host community. That's one
Speaker 1: thing that I saw that I er point five billion
Speaker 1: a month. Look at it's more than it's more the
Speaker 1: host community fund. Yeah, I saw that, and I was like,
Speaker 1: doesn't look too right. I mean, whose community where you
Speaker 1: get your money? Even if you want to build a school,
Speaker 1: it should not intimationally be more than that.
Speaker 2: But that's just me. I'm not upr as.
Speaker 3: The Obstume Regulator has not done a lot in opationalizing
Speaker 3: the whose community Development trusts.
Speaker 2: They've not done a lot in doing opationalizing it.
Speaker 1: What should they do? The law basically says they pay
Speaker 1: to a fund, correct, then the fund that the host
Speaker 1: community then sort of invest in the fund.
Speaker 3: Right, there's there's a corporate governance process protocol that is
Speaker 3: stated out by law that the communities was fullw So
Speaker 3: to be fair to NPR, I would say I also
Speaker 3: say some of.
Speaker 2: The communities are difficult.
Speaker 1: That's if we're meeting up.
Speaker 2: Dens and conditions of getting those funds in finite to them.
Speaker 3: But as irregulator is their job on a daily basis
Speaker 3: to ensure.
Speaker 2: That there's compliance and there's.
Speaker 1: Coordination is their job, okay, Because if you don't.
Speaker 3: Drives com meeting them with the comporate governance protocol required
Speaker 3: to have their city funds paid, the money is will
Speaker 3: pick with the operators, gotcha?
Speaker 1: So essentially they they have to send the money to
Speaker 1: the fund and then sort of push the host community
Speaker 1: to serve the whole corporate governments where they have a
Speaker 1: board and then start to invest this money. Is are
Speaker 1: just lying down with the international oil companies and an NPC.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how many host community funds are operational.
Speaker 1: I know if you are. I'm not sure how many
Speaker 1: are or who regulates them to say it? Can they
Speaker 1: be an annual report that reports on all these host communities.
Speaker 1: I don't know who is in charge per se and
Speaker 1: in child. Okay, so perhaps they should then do an
Speaker 1: annual report and say we have so and so funds licensed,
Speaker 1: so so and so are operational, so so and so
Speaker 1: have done and no reports so people have a sense.
Speaker 1: Many people on the space, I'm sure belong to community
Speaker 1: that have host community funds of funds, but they don't
Speaker 1: even know what's going on. So that sort of report,
Speaker 1: if it's out, can be highlighted, can be you know,
Speaker 1: put out on social media and books and then sort
Speaker 1: of picking and seeing what is happening with their own community.
Speaker 1: I know lots of people would be interested in that
Speaker 1: sort of report.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they said they paid gas player penalties of one
Speaker 3: point third trillion.
Speaker 2: Dollar in there.
Speaker 3: So the gas player penalties goes to the obstream reglata
Speaker 3: in pairson, So is the job of the General Federation
Speaker 3: to check with an u PARC and confirm that and
Speaker 3: then paid one point thirty trillion and gas player and
Speaker 3: permit the penalties. Then PRC through the Office of the
Speaker 3: Camperal Federation. That's the job of the Auditor General to
Speaker 3: confirm then the preciation of a gas properties over time.
Speaker 2: They said that took three point two trillion.
Speaker 1: Nine But I'm just saying trillions. Let me ask you
Speaker 1: a question, so as asked me now and this is
Speaker 1: this is germane the five point four Where does it
Speaker 1: go to?
Speaker 3: The five point four is supposed to you know, net
Speaker 3: profit is supposed to be paid to the show that
Speaker 3: that is the federal government of Nigeria. The question is
Speaker 3: for the accountent general operation has been paid, that's the question.
Speaker 1: But if it's paid, it goes to the states.
Speaker 3: They remember instead three point two trillion and profit they
Speaker 3: defrad it for what the government was doing.
Speaker 1: The remember, Yeah, we're coming to that, Kevin. That's the
Speaker 1: next topic. Are coming to. Like this question is so
Speaker 1: that five point four, if it is paid, it goes
Speaker 1: to FARK. It's supposed to go to fac Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: supposed to go to fac Okay, Kevin, Let's come to
Speaker 1: this question. Is there a subsidy is still being paid?
Speaker 1: If you read the report, there's something there's seven points
Speaker 1: one trillion or so, it's not it's not the security
Speaker 1: pipe and it's to say it's energy something energy. Let
Speaker 1: me get it out to read the exactly I read it.
Speaker 1: I tweeted it, but I want you to explain to
Speaker 1: me what it means if I understand what they're saying,
Speaker 1: they are saying that when you import crude oil into Nigeria,
Speaker 1: then they assume who is import Okay, but let me, lady,
Speaker 1: let me lead the framework for focused Okay, so armful
Speaker 1: to follow over saying sorry, then we can go. So
Speaker 1: essentially this is called energy. I think it's let me
Speaker 1: get the exactly energy Energyesy could the expense?
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So what they're saying is that when they import crude oil,
Speaker 1: they assume a price, maybe if you dollars a barrel,
Speaker 1: but when the crude oil or the PMS or whatever
Speaker 1: it is important, it's then so to the off taker
Speaker 1: it assumes a different price. The difference between the import
Speaker 1: price and the price assumed by the off taker is
Speaker 1: this seven point one, No, eight point six trillion eight
Speaker 1: point six So please.
Speaker 3: Explain that to us. Please, there's nothing like that. There's
Speaker 3: n NBC is not important crude oils. They don't have
Speaker 3: a need import crudoid. The competity that has been importing
Speaker 3: crude oil and has been important up to.
Speaker 2: I would say he's been putting up to eight to
Speaker 2: nine million.
Speaker 3: Barrels of crude in the last year is Dangute fifty
Speaker 3: of the crude oil imports into Nigeria and he uses
Speaker 3: finder is important into Nigeria, okay, and he spends about
Speaker 3: maybe ninety ten million dollars in handling costs and then
Speaker 3: fees to MP, the Master and the likes on a
Speaker 3: monthly basis. So NNPC has no need to crude. The
Speaker 3: Vendor Financing Program was terminated late last year because the
Speaker 3: government collapsed.
Speaker 2: The markets had.
Speaker 3: Decided to you know, activate sections two five of the
Speaker 3: PI on prising PMS according to market forces supply and demand,
Speaker 3: which was the removal of on the recovery or removal
Speaker 3: of subsidies like people know right.
Speaker 1: NMPSC says that the profit.
Speaker 3: From two in three was not basic the government because
Speaker 3: they used it to defray what was owed to them
Speaker 3: from Vendor Financing Program and the STP So what differential.
Speaker 2: Are they talking about? So what is this thing?
Speaker 1: Then it's in the report?
Speaker 3: Is eight to you?
Speaker 2: Let me explain it to you, calum, Let me explain
Speaker 2: it to you.
Speaker 3: Three hundred and twelve thousand barrels of crude on a
Speaker 3: daily basis in the daily crude allocation goes does not
Speaker 3: go to the federation. It's supposed to be the subsidy
Speaker 3: servis and A've said this. You know, I'm not afraid
Speaker 3: of anybody.
Speaker 2: I fear God. I'm not afraid of anybody. I'm not
Speaker 2: afraid of anybody. I fear God, but I'm not afraid
Speaker 2: of anybody. Let's where we don't have institutional integrity is Nigeria.
Speaker 3: We don't know how to tell ourselves the truths and
Speaker 3: that's why Nigeria is not moving.
Speaker 2: Forward because we don't like the truth.
Speaker 1: Three hundred and twelve thousand barrels of crude on.
Speaker 2: A daily basis in the crude allocation does not go
Speaker 2: to the federation account that is supposed to be a
Speaker 2: subsidy savings. So where's it going to? This is a
Speaker 2: question you have to ask the government.
Speaker 1: Because this was this talk.
Speaker 3: Out of the phone round for five thousand barrels of
Speaker 3: crude interventional stock that they were using for under recovery
Speaker 3: payment on subsidy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is not being saved. So where is it
Speaker 2: being saved to? Why is it not going to be constantly.
Speaker 1: They revenue from?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 1: So where's the money is the question you have to
Speaker 1: act the government. Is this eight point six trillion?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 3: Why are you paying the one hundred and ten thousand
Speaker 3: barrels of cool daily to militaris for pipeline security.
Speaker 2: Why no, is that what that is?
Speaker 1: For sixty there's a seven point one trillion for part
Speaker 1: and it's a bit compute. Let me let me share
Speaker 1: with them.
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty four, that's pipeline security fee was seventy.
Speaker 2: Eight thousand, one hundred sixty nine barrels day.
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty five has been in crystals one hundred and
Speaker 3: ten thousand barrauls day.
Speaker 2: So the question is when you have the navy, you
Speaker 2: have the DSS, you have then NSCDC, you have the army.
Speaker 2: You know you have the efforts.
Speaker 3: Why are militaris collecting one hundred and ten thousand virus
Speaker 3: of good day for pipe.
Speaker 1: Person seven point one Australion.
Speaker 3: So this is a question you have to ask because
Speaker 3: NMPC is not important CREUS. So there's nothing like export
Speaker 3: differential and import differential and price that comes to price.
Speaker 2: That you give to There's nothing like that.
Speaker 1: So what is the g security?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 1: It's in the annual report.
Speaker 2: I'm giving you pointer as to it. I'm not making
Speaker 2: any inference.
Speaker 3: I'm giving you pointers and I'm allowing you and everyone
Speaker 3: who is listening this evening to make a conclusion.
Speaker 2: Why are you giving crude oil to million times with
Speaker 2: pipeline security? Why?
Speaker 1: Hmm, So there's this s So let me just see
Speaker 1: what I what I'm hearing you saying. We had this
Speaker 1: subsidy arrengement before where we took this one hundred thousand
Speaker 1: barrels and that was our on the recovery payment. Now
Speaker 1: we have stopped subsidy, but that's one hundred thousand or
Speaker 1: so barrels have still not gone back to fuck? Am
Speaker 1: I correct?
Speaker 2: So far it is not gone back to fuck?
Speaker 1: Okay? Then in the annual report back hasn't gone back that?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 3: Now, that's why the government is running through the concurreent
Speaker 3: projects and Billy.
Speaker 2: Has up to fifteen percent of his proposed Kate pegs
Speaker 2: from the project.
Speaker 1: Interesting, okay, so that's that's number one. It hasn't gone
Speaker 1: back to fac Number two, there's a pipe lying payment
Speaker 1: numbers perits and energy security whatever payment is in the
Speaker 1: annal report, the pipeline payment. And it's a bit confusing
Speaker 1: because I see seven point one, I see eight point six.
Speaker 1: Are they saying that the pipeline thing is the energy
Speaker 1: security or it's It's not very clear to me as
Speaker 1: just looking at you as a numbers guy, I'm really
Speaker 1: not show what they were saying. The numbers were correct,
Speaker 1: but the interpretation is why I didn't really understand what
Speaker 1: they were saying. I understand it's a subsidy because of
Speaker 1: the language they are using. They're saying it is to
Speaker 1: cover the difference between this and this. I get that,
Speaker 1: But you're now saying that that subject hasn't gone back
Speaker 1: to park and you are saying there's no subsidy.
Speaker 2: So what is this?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's in the annal report.
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 1: They're signed to say something. That's why they put it there.
Speaker 3: You see, this is why we don't have a cultural
Speaker 3: thoracic or this in Nigiera. We don't have a culture
Speaker 3: of forensic audits because if you bring a forensic auditor,
Speaker 3: you have to.
Speaker 2: Provide every day and explain.
Speaker 3: Okay, you know every items you have in your AFS,
Speaker 3: all right, if I'm.
Speaker 1: Giving you pointers and pointers, okay, where where is going to?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Ken, Let's also go to the other part of the
Speaker 1: front loaded income that the government has done, the financings,
Speaker 1: the Ego, the Leopads and all that. They are all there.
Speaker 1: In essence we have sold oil in advance and then
Speaker 1: we so we're paying them crude oil. But with created
Speaker 1: money today. What's the impact of impact of that? What
Speaker 1: happens if oil prices go down to say fifty five
Speaker 1: or fifty what happens? I mean there are many of them.
Speaker 1: If you reports project Leopad, Project EGO, Project this and
Speaker 1: their front loaded incomes. What happens?
Speaker 2: So in this.
Speaker 3: Forced the agreements some of val you don't forking billion dollars.
Speaker 3: There's not a lot of five billion dollars in the
Speaker 3: pipeline away that when a hundred one hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 3: of crew is going to pledge, I don't want to
Speaker 3: give more details on it, but if that comes true,
Speaker 3: it means that you know, some of the forced agreements,
Speaker 3: payments are maturity are expiring, rounding them off, and nums
Speaker 3: are going to pick up. It means that more crew
Speaker 3: will being cumbat. You can't apply, you know, domestically final
Speaker 3: with the cruder that it needs there is there isn't
Speaker 3: going to be much space room for you to actually
Speaker 3: you know, pay dividends to your shareholder.
Speaker 2: That's what it means.
Speaker 1: Well, why would it be a for dividends. It's still
Speaker 1: a sale. It's still a sale, but the money has
Speaker 1: been taken today.
Speaker 3: No, you know that.
Speaker 4: What I'm saying is if you do for cel agreements
Speaker 4: and you you know, give the cruder to a trader,
Speaker 4: that meant to the banks that.
Speaker 3: You're owing money for the for the period of the loan.
Speaker 3: It means that that dividend doesn't come to the government.
Speaker 2: Let's the management fee, I say, then he charges, but on.
Speaker 3: The price of crude and the risk of you know,
Speaker 3: we had the situation some months ago where crew prize
Speaker 3: drops below sixty dollars, came to about fifty four fifty
Speaker 3: five pulling back up because of israelservation of Gaza and
Speaker 3: a round. We had a stitution of months ago, and
Speaker 3: what happened was.
Speaker 2: I saw.
Speaker 3: Sheets of about seventy two million barrels of cruder that
Speaker 3: was stuck that we are located to be lifted, but
Speaker 3: the companies refuse to lift the crew because for some
Speaker 3: of the crude, the price of the crude have dropped below.
Speaker 2: The strike price. So typically when you start.
Speaker 3: For as with agreement, there's always a strike price at
Speaker 3: which you dh against risk. So if you say X,
Speaker 3: Y and Z bank is lending thirty billion dollars to
Speaker 3: a busy corporation.
Speaker 2: In Nigeria, they will want to pin a price and
Speaker 2: say that below this price, I will not take the crew.
Speaker 3: If I take the crew, you have to provide more
Speaker 3: crude to match up the prevalence of that price, that
Speaker 3: that traget level, that strike level. Above this price, I
Speaker 3: will take the crew or the different shout and between
Speaker 3: the strike price.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me be more practical. If the strike price
Speaker 2: is fifty seven dollars or fifty six dollars.
Speaker 3: If the price of crude drops below fifty six, they
Speaker 3: will not take the crude. It will be held at
Speaker 3: what they call the come. If they take the crud,
Speaker 3: we have to give them more barrels to match up.
Speaker 2: The fifty six. Right.
Speaker 3: If the prize of courses above fifty six, that different
Speaker 3: shot between the strike price fifty six and whatever the
Speaker 3: prize of crude is, say the prize of crew sixty
Speaker 3: five or seventy, it will go into a death sevice
Speaker 3: reserve account operated by the borrower.
Speaker 2: So on.
Speaker 3: For stele agreements, well, one of the questions have always asked.
Speaker 3: For example, on project As, a strike prize was anywhere
Speaker 3: between fifty seven and fifty nine dollars a barrel. Crudinal
Speaker 3: prizes were steadily above that level for the longest time.
Speaker 3: What did the government do with the differential between the
Speaker 3: strike price and the current market price open market creates.
Speaker 3: They had also the services of account that was set
Speaker 3: up with the barnas.
Speaker 2: What did the government do with those money?
Speaker 3: Why was it the National Assembly placed the copy? Why
Speaker 3: when those money is appropriated.
Speaker 2: By National Service? Unknown to the principle of suspere Because.
Speaker 1: Because it's revenue right in essense just upon a standard
Speaker 1: then just says that any revenue you get has to
Speaker 1: go to farcident is shared by appropriation by National Assembly.
Speaker 1: Mister Buhari and mister Tinerbo have dodged this by doing
Speaker 1: they basically go and create a fund, then pay a
Speaker 1: dividend or a fund into that fund, then spend from
Speaker 1: that fund without going to appropriations. Bid with the presidential
Speaker 1: p idea of potential some something development fund where he
Speaker 1: took n n PC this dividends or whatever he put
Speaker 1: the dividends from an n l LG. The gas company
Speaker 1: into that fund, then use that phone because National Assembly
Speaker 1: would not authorize borrowings. That's where his whole princess they
Speaker 1: are from. He took the dividends, putting the fund and
Speaker 1: spent with the appropriations. Mister Tinebook has consumed the same
Speaker 1: practice by creating a fund, putting revenues in that fund
Speaker 1: and then spending. That's what you're describing because you don't
Speaker 1: have to do National Assembly.
Speaker 3: Okay, exactly. So it's like an excess crood account. The
Speaker 3: only difference is that this express cool account does not
Speaker 3: have Sydney trees. The think God knows no seccares to it. Okay,
Speaker 3: you know, like an excess fool account. However, now they
Speaker 3: set up these accounts. They have a fancy there for it,
Speaker 3: dead service reserve account there. Sorry, and it's always off show.
Speaker 3: So your guess is as good as mine.
Speaker 1: Okay, Kevin, Let's go to page I don't if you
Speaker 1: look at they go to page ninety nine. You see
Speaker 1: this loan to subsidy area. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: can see that.
Speaker 2: Just shaowed.
Speaker 1: If you want to follow I just say it on Twitter.
Speaker 1: We see loans to loans to n NPC Energy Service
Speaker 1: limited and serve. We're giving it an energy and serve
Speaker 1: one seventy four is that that would be a billion?
Speaker 1: But we're getting this money from n n P C
Speaker 1: E P N E p L. We're getting one O
Speaker 1: four from ny P L and then from the wheel. Okay,
Speaker 1: so what is n n PC Energy Service and Serve
Speaker 1: is according to a report here above us here and
Speaker 1: serve let.
Speaker 3: Men, page ninety nine, page nice nine.
Speaker 1: I don't understand what what I'm reading? Just yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: just and I showed them on the space on my feet,
Speaker 1: guys gets on the fall. I've shared the tail on
Speaker 1: the spacey from the follow as well. Just understand, doesn't
Speaker 1: it doesn't make that much sense to me? You see it?
Speaker 2: So you know n Service is the same entity that.
Speaker 3: Is in charge in charge of disposing from the business explorations.
Speaker 1: Okay, but let me ask you my question. So if
Speaker 1: you look this this this table is called loan to
Speaker 1: a subsidiary. So you see we're borrowing one hundreds we're
Speaker 1: borrowing money from n n PC, E and P E
Speaker 1: and P are going to n n PC. If you
Speaker 1: look at bob E n P is sales here you too, sales.
Speaker 1: I don't know where I laugh it sales of crude
Speaker 1: and back charge of expenses. So n n PC e
Speaker 1: and p hear me again, sales of crude and back
Speaker 1: charge of expenses. But we're lending it to NPC Energy Serve.
Speaker 2: What is n serve?
Speaker 1: Let me mean what end service back charge of expenses.
Speaker 1: So you are borrowing from back choror of expenses and
Speaker 1: you are led in to back chor of expenses. Doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense to me.
Speaker 2: Explain something, you know. One of the reasons why companies
Speaker 2: have boards is they come up with.
Speaker 3: You know, not just a strategic direction, but they come
Speaker 3: up with rules the management must play by.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's why you have both committees. Correct. Yeah?
Speaker 3: Hm, I think up until Musaki that came the Musaki
Speaker 3: that is beenworking and doing some some good work as
Speaker 3: the chairman of the board setting on board committees, the
Speaker 3: management didn't have rules to play by.
Speaker 2: Okay, So end Service.
Speaker 3: The arm of the group responsible for this bosting Frontier
Speaker 3: Basic Exploration front I remember from their basin. According to
Speaker 3: the PI has a share of profit oil and gas
Speaker 3: that goes into development of six different from their business
Speaker 3: in Nigeria that will be basing lower penutral you have
Speaker 3: upper Pernutral which is the core money basin.
Speaker 2: You have.
Speaker 3: The basin around the whole core. Yes, you have the
Speaker 3: chat basin. You have the Socoto basin.
Speaker 2: Six business. Now the you have three different business that
Speaker 2: Melod focused on.
Speaker 3: You have the core money, you have the chat business,
Speaker 3: lower chat basins, in jury, local government and barn the states.
Speaker 2: And it does I've forgotten the name. Now, then you
Speaker 2: have the basin the one and nas how the hay.
Speaker 2: So if any PO say that they're luning money to.
Speaker 3: Service and anomally because based on the PIA, a section
Speaker 3: of profit orlandas goes into the frontier business exploration firm
Speaker 3: and that fromdly supposed to have billions of dollars in it.
Speaker 3: But what that backchat means is that any PR is
Speaker 3: saying they did some exploration and production activities right on
Speaker 3: those frontier business and that there there's a back.
Speaker 2: Charge from that. Okay, but what why is it business
Speaker 2: exploration front.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're saying that the n n PC Energy,
Speaker 1: So the guys that give them the money is n
Speaker 1: n p C E and P.
Speaker 2: Limited Exploration and production limited.
Speaker 1: So so the guys in billion are lending money to
Speaker 1: the n n PC and n serve kind of You
Speaker 1: know why I.
Speaker 3: Talked about the board when I was starting, I started
Speaker 3: answering your question. I talked about the board and board
Speaker 3: certain rules of management because I wanted you to know
Speaker 3: that it's an anormally for any peer to be lending
Speaker 3: money to n considering that base on the PI a
Speaker 3: percentage of profit oil and gers already goes to front
Speaker 3: their business exploration.
Speaker 2: For that NCEPT manages.
Speaker 3: So it's an anormally because NST is supposed to be liquid.
Speaker 2: M hm. So any peer lending money to answer this
Speaker 2: non normally mhmm.
Speaker 1: So both I'm following the drift. I do, but again,
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Money to n.
Speaker 3: Because NCEFNCET brought in contractors, it paid money to do
Speaker 3: what they call exploratory drilling on those business the basic
Speaker 3: injury local government, the basin between Bouchier and Gone with
Speaker 3: money to the basin.
Speaker 2: They brought in consultants, sorry, companies to do drilling.
Speaker 1: So where is any PO back charging. And just to
Speaker 1: be clear, there's no report doesn't say that NSF gets
Speaker 1: money to E m P, but it's given money to
Speaker 1: n n PC and NPCE is giving money to NCF.
Speaker 1: So it's like E and P give money to n
Speaker 1: n PC, then n n PC gets money to energy
Speaker 1: set to NCEF. So to me, it's just a long
Speaker 1: it's the wrong. I don't know what's going on there.
Speaker 1: Doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense normally because based on the PI.
Speaker 3: If you read the PI, it will say that a
Speaker 3: percentage of profit oil and gas goes into frontier business
Speaker 3: explosion for the development.
Speaker 2: Of six business in Nigeria.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that was up to BASY the only Basy
Speaker 1: and lower chat busy if it's up to six okay, interesting, Okay,
Speaker 1: So let me ask the second question. You're on this page,
Speaker 1: same page we have the Wheel Insurance. Now, I get
Speaker 1: that's a simple transaction. The Wheel give any PC money
Speaker 1: to to they borrow money from it from the Wheel
Speaker 1: to invest in. I think it's one of those IPPs.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the budget the Wheel Insurance Company.
Speaker 1: They borrowed money from the broad forty eight million from
Speaker 1: the Wheel Insurance Limited. Why why are they borrowed when
Speaker 1: they have four point five trillion nets five point four nets?
Speaker 1: Why are they Why are they borrowing? The sorry investing
Speaker 1: I don't know. I saw it somewhere. I can go
Speaker 1: and look for it. But the Wheel Insurance Limited is
Speaker 1: there as they give a loan to it. They're borrowing
Speaker 1: money from them forty eight billion.
Speaker 2: It's this is this is my point again on both committees.
Speaker 3: If you have both audit committees, I'm both risk committees,
Speaker 3: all of these issues will not happen because there will
Speaker 3: be governors, proper.
Speaker 2: Governors that will guide management. What you're explaining to me
Speaker 2: a normal list that should not be should not be
Speaker 2: evident in the group different subsidiaries. I'm not.
Speaker 1: And we're here listed as a subsidiary. You know it
Speaker 1: says loans to subsidiaries listed here.
Speaker 2: Why why why do you have?
Speaker 3: Why is Annus setting up pernassurance company? That's the first question.
Speaker 3: Why do you setting up pernassurance company? I'm trying to
Speaker 3: find exactly what they do. I know I've ready I forget.
Speaker 3: Why is an NPC setting up an insurance company? Explain
Speaker 3: the business case to me. You're the expert because because
Speaker 3: the government is not supposed to approve his license to
Speaker 3: set up an insurance company, and NBC is the custodian
Speaker 3: of Nigeria's oil and as asset and the concession. Yeah,
Speaker 3: why are you setting up a subsidiary insurance company to
Speaker 3: do what? I don't know insurance companies in Nigeria.
Speaker 1: I'm going to find the exact the transaction. I know
Speaker 1: they will funded something, but my question for that is
Speaker 1: just why they are borrowing when they have all this
Speaker 1: quote unquote p and L profit after tax. Maybe that cash,
Speaker 1: no profit is not cash. I get that, but I'm
Speaker 1: just saying that they can gerate all this profit. Why
Speaker 1: are they're borrowing? Just just a question that maybe that
Speaker 1: would maybe they will say, oh, I'm going to the pie.
Speaker 1: They can't. Maybe that's what answered the game, but I
Speaker 1: don't see it.
Speaker 2: So let me come to my.
Speaker 1: The NFBC does not have any business as all right,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just asking. I'm just asking you. So
Speaker 1: I get up and folks are gonna ask to speak,
Speaker 1: and I'm just waiting for you for a while. Last question,
Speaker 1: if I letting them you speak, Last question, sir, Page
Speaker 1: ninety two. The total value of all the front loaded investments,
Speaker 1: the front loaded sales is about four point nine trill
Speaker 1: just just call it five trillion, five trillions. If you
Speaker 1: take Project Falcon, Panther leopard yield Bython.
Speaker 2: This is as at.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three, mind you as a twenty twenty three. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna page ninety two. It's about four point nine trillions,
Speaker 1: just a nice five trill as at twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: But I haven't added anything that was done from twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three. This has a cost. Is it conceivable that
Speaker 1: this four point nine trillion if it is a contract liability?
Speaker 1: What's the impact of this four point nine trillion with
Speaker 1: the profit that they have made? The four point nine
Speaker 1: they have made because this is the this is loans
Speaker 1: I think they've gotten from these guys. Right when I
Speaker 1: say Project Facon they took they took money from them, right,
Speaker 1: That's what it means. Like for instance, Project Leopad, they
Speaker 1: took one point two trillion from Bletlyopad, and that's revenue
Speaker 1: that they have reached from politic Leopad. They took money
Speaker 1: from them front loaded. They're going to sell crude oil
Speaker 1: then could oil goes to Leopad in quote, then Leopod
Speaker 1: will pay the bank then pay back and NP see
Speaker 1: the difference between what they have taken today and what
Speaker 1: the cud oil is sold in future. That's what's happening, right,
Speaker 1: So you know.
Speaker 3: When you when you structure for agreements, what I've seen
Speaker 3: so far is that and ither structure for seal agreement
Speaker 3: which a trading company okay shout trading commodity trader number one,
Speaker 3: or you can have cool syndicates.
Speaker 2: So you have a bank do syndication with a trader.
Speaker 2: So for example, we.
Speaker 3: Do a focil agreement of two billion dollars, the bank
Speaker 3: is collecting one billion, trader is collecting five hundred million,
Speaker 3: another one is collected five hundred million, or the bank
Speaker 3: is collecting everything. So in situations where the bank is
Speaker 3: the only syndicate, what you have is their point a
Speaker 3: trader as a collector. Right, they take the crew, they
Speaker 3: sell the crew, they remit the money less. You know
Speaker 3: what I explain about strike price and different strike price
Speaker 3: and open market rates, and you know they have their
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Management fees and handling fees in that regards.
Speaker 3: So in these loans from what i've sym, typically you know,
Speaker 3: London a bank of fad rates.
Speaker 2: Typically for frontier markets anywhere around six percent.
Speaker 3: Ban on So Nindria has a country's premium that had
Speaker 3: in prising these loans when they're doing book building anywhere
Speaker 3: around thirty four percent sometimes is higher. Were around thirty
Speaker 3: four percent because the credit rating has improved, which is
Speaker 3: now b the stable outlook mojsis firms gone from C
Speaker 3: one to bitter. And then you have facilitation fees, which
Speaker 3: is strange because I've not seen facilitation fees of anywhere
Speaker 3: between two to four percent.
Speaker 2: Facilitation fee now is going up to four percent, which
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: So you have anywhere around twelve to fourteen percent pano
Speaker 3: calum twelve to fourteen percent.
Speaker 1: That's the interest that's paid on this on this CROUTE
Speaker 1: twelve percent.
Speaker 3: Yes, project as well was around nine point no project
Speaker 3: as there was eleven point eighty five percent. When you
Speaker 3: add the secure DI Finance and Financial rate or libel,
Speaker 3: you had the country's premium, and then you.
Speaker 2: Add the fascitation fees, it came to eleven P eight
Speaker 2: eight five percent. So CRP has so free was like
Speaker 2: nine point five.
Speaker 3: Between nine and nine point five, the facilitation fee was
Speaker 3: about two point thirty percent or so.
Speaker 2: That goes to consultants.
Speaker 3: The consultants and animally the reason why the consultants are
Speaker 3: a normally because in the book building process there are
Speaker 3: fixed commissions that are supposed to be paid one of.
Speaker 2: Right fixed commissions.
Speaker 3: But situation where you have people who will embed themselves
Speaker 3: as consultants, you know, and they layered themselves into the
Speaker 3: ending fees.
Speaker 2: For the length of duration that facility, then you know that.
Speaker 1: You have an Okay, well said, I'm going to come
Speaker 1: back to you on this because if you look at it,
Speaker 1: I want to get folks to speak and know Nandi
Speaker 1: and your mentor and also didn't want to speak, So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get him to ask you questions.
Speaker 2: But I just have it if a.
Speaker 1: Final question for you, but don't answer s just we'll
Speaker 1: take the folks. There's a page that that answers our question,
Speaker 1: Section twenty eight Restricted funds. That's on page eighty one.
Speaker 1: It does say about one point three trillion has been
Speaker 1: restricted as external funding, and external funding represents the cash
Speaker 1: balances restricted for funding contractual obligion. Which is a question.
Speaker 1: I was asking that we're making five point four trillion profit,
Speaker 1: but it's not really cash because that is profit based
Speaker 1: on sales. But the cash has not come to Nagia
Speaker 1: because one point three trillion in cash has been set
Speaker 1: aside to cover this contractual agreement we've had, which explains
Speaker 1: why we are borrowing from will or we're borrowing from
Speaker 1: equity and giving to any There's no cash in the system.
Speaker 1: There's profits, but no cash. Namdi, Hi, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: Thanks for holding on so long with Kevin speaking to us.
Speaker 1: You have a question for Kevin? Kevin, No, no worries, Kevin.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Kelvin.
Speaker 3: Good to be on a platform with you. Good evening,
Speaker 3: and I appreciate both of yours insights. So first of all,
Speaker 3: granted I haven't.
Speaker 6: Looked at the details in terms of the balance sheet
Speaker 6: in the P and R of this recent release, it's
Speaker 6: clear that this is atrocious as far as the MPC
Speaker 6: is concerned.
Speaker 2: It's clear that abnormal season.
Speaker 6: And anomalies within this financial and it's even atrocious the
Speaker 6: fact that we're having to wait almost an entire year
Speaker 6: to actually get the end of the year results, et cetera,
Speaker 6: assuming that the physical year ends in December, which I
Speaker 6: believe it.
Speaker 2: The other thing, and Kelvin, keep you honestly here, because.
Speaker 6: In addition to these porous results, the other thing that
Speaker 6: we're getting wind of is apparently according to some kind
Speaker 6: of senate investigation I think never won Goes spoke to it.
Speaker 6: There are some missing accounts from an NPC up to
Speaker 6: the tune of you know, in the hundreds of billions
Speaker 6: even trillions.
Speaker 2: So once to get your perspective on that.
Speaker 6: Then the second thing is that there's anutdotal rulers that
Speaker 6: we're potentially looking to sell interest joint venture interest that
Speaker 6: we have so liquid dating certain positions that we have
Speaker 6: in oil blocks and joint ventures.
Speaker 2: Once to get your perspective on that.
Speaker 6: But the third thing that I have, which is not
Speaker 6: a technical question or even a financial question, is that Kelvin,
Speaker 6: you mentioned that governance is the issue as far as
Speaker 6: NMPC is concerned. But you know, there's nothing in these
Speaker 6: results and nothing associated with NNPC that we haven't learned
Speaker 6: for the last forty years, which is that NMPC has
Speaker 6: been an informal piggybank for various administrations and presidents in
Speaker 6: Nigeria and the preponderance of our national wealth continues to
Speaker 6: be drained. And this is happening in the face of
Speaker 6: what is patent state failure in Nigeria today. And so
Speaker 6: we have seen that subs all governments have lacked the capacity.
Speaker 2: Nor willingness to fix this issue.
Speaker 6: And the only other key stakeholder that can possibly intervene
Speaker 6: is us in civil society, which is, we need a
Speaker 6: people driven mechanism.
Speaker 2: To enforce enforce accountability and transparency of an MPC.
Speaker 6: And I've reached out to each of you and said, hey,
Speaker 6: here's a mechanism that I'm proposing. What do you think
Speaker 6: about that? Because this is the only way that we
Speaker 6: can stop this hemorrhaging. And the reason why this is
Speaker 6: important is that, in my research and my analysis and
Speaker 6: my writings, I believe that Nigeria is three to five
Speaker 6: years away from complete state failure, which is that the
Speaker 6: center will not hold.
Speaker 2: And will have anarchy in that country. And that's what's
Speaker 2: happening today.
Speaker 6: And we can no longer trust on any institution, whether
Speaker 6: it's political, religious, traditional, ETCeteras do it. It's us in
Speaker 6: civil society, me, you, and the people on discord that
Speaker 6: have to go and do that, and we have to
Speaker 6: build the mechanisms to do that. And the reason why
Speaker 6: this is a sailin point is that you know, when
Speaker 6: Nigeria falls, it's not going to be because of these
Speaker 6: actors in a n NPC or the political class, et cetera.
Speaker 2: It's going to be because of me, you the people
Speaker 2: on this score who.
Speaker 3: Either were too intellectual, intellectually lazy, or uncourageous enough to
Speaker 3: mount a counter strategy, right, And I believe that we
Speaker 3: can actually mount a councer strategy, and that counter strategy
Speaker 3: is that we need to start going after specific people like,
Speaker 3: for instance, in the.
Speaker 1: NNPC example, the management team go beyond.
Speaker 6: Your typical judicial process and all that nonsense.
Speaker 3: But we in civil society have related powers that we
Speaker 3: can use to go after them. One example before I
Speaker 3: get off, is that you know Paulinoso grown Quo, who
Speaker 3: is was a general manager at NPC.
Speaker 2: He was accosted by the FBI because.
Speaker 6: He took money from eight Dogs, which is a subsidiary
Speaker 6: of Sinopec. I think two point one billion dollars that
Speaker 6: he was wandering in California buying real estate and they
Speaker 6: got him. We can absolutely do the same thing with
Speaker 6: so many of these managers at NMPC because a lot
Speaker 6: of them are dual citizens in other countries.
Speaker 2: So even if we can't get them in the Nigerian context,
Speaker 2: we get them externally.
Speaker 6: So where do you stand on this in terms of
Speaker 6: a civilian, civil society driven approach to managing this issue,
Speaker 6: because we're all dying from this.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, just for Kevin ascent. So just to be clear,
Speaker 1: it's not when that's keb and that's your opinion, right,
Speaker 1: it's not a guarantee. Nager's gonna figure. I don't want
Speaker 1: to make sure that I get that out there. You
Speaker 1: made a comment and said when feels no, that's not
Speaker 1: it's not giving anything can happen. But Kevin, go ahead, sir,
Speaker 1: And I mean he has some two questions at the
Speaker 1: very bed top, which are oil related. They talk about
Speaker 1: the missing billions and if you're going to take that
Speaker 1: and as well, that was a big, fantastic sir.
Speaker 2: Please please don't don't mind me. Can you come back
Speaker 2: and remind me. The first question was about the money.
Speaker 2: Is that what that are missing?
Speaker 1: Then he said sales. He said sale off some JVS,
Speaker 1: the JB sales.
Speaker 2: Okay, on that. On the missing moneys, I think you
Speaker 2: have to go back to our.
Speaker 3: Document that crewe. I want to speak because I have
Speaker 3: some information confidence. I don't want to brent to the public.
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm the right person to the details
Speaker 3: are to senive, to be honest with you, but there's
Speaker 3: a history of undocument that could the Niger there is
Speaker 3: a history. I think there's a presential committee and could
Speaker 3: recovery at National Economic Council that is in charge of that.
Speaker 2: They are working on it, but I can't speak to it.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for now. What the National Assembly has.
Speaker 3: Been improving, I don't know if it relates to the
Speaker 3: undocument that could, history of undocument that could and the
Speaker 3: fact that certificate of quantities that were issued by National
Speaker 3: Printing and Meeting Corporation issues around certicate of quantities. I
Speaker 3: won't speak much on it. Then, on the selling down
Speaker 3: of JVS, I think it's a bad decision. I don't
Speaker 3: think the solutions sell down the JVS.
Speaker 2: I think the path forward is for you to.
Speaker 3: Solve first the governor's issue as a governance issue. But
Speaker 3: as I started to turn, I hope on disabling the
Speaker 3: State House practically breaks the protocol and by at least
Speaker 3: the corporate governance structured has been certain place. And if
Speaker 3: you don't fix that governance issue, you can't fix anything else.
Speaker 2: You know, settling down the GVS is not going.
Speaker 3: To amount And I think they are just people around
Speaker 3: the corridors of power, mister President that are interested in
Speaker 3: cashion in on it for trying to pressure to see
Speaker 3: that they sell jvs and they use t the companies
Speaker 3: of bidans interests. I don't think it's for the good
Speaker 3: or interest of any busy for the jervis so I
Speaker 3: don't think National oppose it.
Speaker 1: But Kell then just to play doubles advocating why not.
Speaker 1: I mean we need cash, not just cash, we need
Speaker 1: dollar cash. We have these assets here, why can't we
Speaker 1: sell them to invest in the coastal roads, railways? Help?
Speaker 1: Why can I see this question?
Speaker 2: So? Could you know? I? I said, yeah, I said
Speaker 2: that the Minister of Works.
Speaker 1: It took him having.
Speaker 3: An online and on TV battle with Sating of our
Speaker 3: CV for him to finally come out and grogingly admit
Speaker 3: that this is the post cost. Is there a system
Speaker 3: to first of all, or that the cost pakilter is
Speaker 3: if you put it on the benchmark, it checks out,
Speaker 3: considering that it's concrete rud Is there a system to
Speaker 3: audit what is allocated to ten billion dollars that are locating?
Speaker 1: No, there is no, There is none. But if if
Speaker 1: there was, is the issue if the government came with
Speaker 1: the firmwork and said we're gonna sell JB, it's going
Speaker 1: to go to a pt F type phone, it's going
Speaker 1: to be a ring fence, it's going to be audited,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna go towards projects. Would you be agreeable
Speaker 1: to that sort of arrangement, Calum.
Speaker 3: You know, I think one of the most consequential funds
Speaker 3: that most of the funds that have been well managed
Speaker 3: not they don't good job so far, and was what
Speaker 3: the Lucia Gua Ganga Shamsudinusman former finance minister and Gazio
Speaker 3: conjury well set up the Sovereign Wealth Fund and it
Speaker 3: was the kickback. The Governor's kicked back because it didn't
Speaker 3: want the easy to be collapsed into even if it
Speaker 3: was not fully collapsed.
Speaker 2: But like the revenues are community easy, they wanted to
Speaker 2: share the money.
Speaker 3: But the sovereign well funders so far well even if
Speaker 3: I think that, for example, in the reorganization of an
Speaker 3: NPC shelf and NPC should be given to the Sovereign
Speaker 3: Well Fund.
Speaker 2: You know that's that's what oppains and you know.
Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia and the Public Investment Fund in Saudi Arabia
Speaker 3: was sixteen percent of our article, and they get dividends
Speaker 3: of edwork the two over fifty billion dollars on a
Speaker 3: yearly basis to the public Investment Fund, you know, because
Speaker 3: I don't believe that any dividend, however smaller, that is
Speaker 3: paid to the show that should be spent fully and
Speaker 3: totally in every financial year.
Speaker 2: So the solution is not to sell down the GVS.
Speaker 3: Solution is to focus on governors and reorganize the entity
Speaker 3: to optimize the assets and you know, bringing more dividends
Speaker 3: and taxes.
Speaker 6: So Kelvin, if I may, then what about a civilian approach,
Speaker 6: because I think it's clear that the government needle not long.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I don't support some of the suggestions that you've proposed.
Speaker 3: I am a believer that there are civil ways to
Speaker 3: handle issues, and I believe that the justice system should
Speaker 3: take its course.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I think this is this year, so should keep on
Speaker 3: shining light on this is use you know, I keep
Speaker 3: on exposing.
Speaker 2: These issues and work with law enforcements, you know.
Speaker 3: But I also think that at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: expect the people in these entities their human.
Speaker 2: Beings just like you and I, and whatever the frailties are,
Speaker 2: is important to give them their dignity as humanlanes. I
Speaker 2: respect them and allow the system to do his work.
Speaker 2: That that's what I believe.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, let's get who's mental your mentor? I think
Speaker 1: you've been next to thanks naming your mentor. You have
Speaker 1: a question for Kevin, he's dropped off your mental as back.
Speaker 1: But let's get ox Lay tech Oxley tech. What's the
Speaker 1: tech going on? Yea, go ahead, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Now what in downlow? When an N not
Speaker 2: an N N N B D and then that would
Speaker 2: be but you know when when they're going to finally.
Speaker 1: Ken, did you hear him? He's asking when when you
Speaker 1: think they're going to go public you self equity to
Speaker 1: manajined investors? Do you have any any insight to that? Kevin?
Speaker 1: I can't hear if you're speaking, just so you.
Speaker 2: Can you hear me? Now? I can hear you? Now? Yes?
Speaker 2: Can you just come?
Speaker 1: He's asking when do you have any insights or when
Speaker 1: an n PC and Dangote are going to offer their
Speaker 1: shares for for subscription?
Speaker 3: Well, I I understand that Dangote is going to come
Speaker 3: next year. I don't know which would go. If the
Speaker 3: fertilizer would go before the refinement, the refiner will.
Speaker 2: Go before the fertilizer.
Speaker 3: I think the fertilizer will go first because you know,
Speaker 3: Dangote just signed the partnership with them Onnwell to come
Speaker 3: in and supervise the process, the busy process for the
Speaker 3: expansion from six hundred and fifty thousand barols to one
Speaker 3: point form million barrels and build a second train and
Speaker 3: I will make it the largest refiner in the world,
Speaker 3: ahead of reliances refiner in India.
Speaker 2: So I think fertilizer go before the refinery because they might.
Speaker 3: Want to, you know, build the second train and expand
Speaker 3: the capacity first before it goes off an IPO, so
Speaker 3: that I can say that in seven you see an
Speaker 3: IPO from Dangote, but fertilizer that go first, because fertilizer
Speaker 3: is a separate business from the refinery, even if they.
Speaker 2: Exchange fit stock, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, Kevin, question for you just in terms
Speaker 1: of the business case for the refinery and the petrochemical
Speaker 1: and the refinery step and the petric colon company. You know,
Speaker 1: the Petri color company is already exporting to America to Brazil.
Speaker 1: If I came to you and I had a million eira,
Speaker 1: I mean, which do you think has a there's no
Speaker 1: word in better, but which has a better business case
Speaker 1: the petrochemical side of the refinery side, Which do you
Speaker 1: think over the next twenty five years is going to
Speaker 1: provide more return on investments for an investor? Which one
Speaker 1: in your view?
Speaker 2: So I can tell you that.
Speaker 3: Dannetic currently has a three million tons and store capacity
Speaker 3: for fertilizer intensive resist of nine million tons. And of
Speaker 3: course you know the fertilizer business is also with all
Speaker 3: the other regional businesses, is going to build fertilizer. In fact,
Speaker 3: there's the EPC for the Dangote fertilizer plant in Goodey
Speaker 3: in Ethiopia in two point five million pounds by or
Speaker 3: ten million tons from Normans takes two point five million
Speaker 3: pounds is started in the city of Godey in Ethiopia.
Speaker 3: So Ethiopia started producing gas in their border closest to
Speaker 3: Bali region. The Chinese are doing the mp for the
Speaker 3: Ethiopian government and GDO Group is going to take the
Speaker 3: crude from the drilling there and then the associated gas
Speaker 3: They giving too Dangote to produce fertilizer, you know, and
Speaker 3: in Ethopia has a huge, huge agricultural business. Ethiopia is
Speaker 3: now the largest grow up within the entire content of Africa,
Speaker 3: the largest grower.
Speaker 2: As a matter of.
Speaker 3: Fact, the President the Prime Minister of Ethiopia said in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five they've planted forty eight billion seeds in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, forty eight billion seeds in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: So the regional fertilizer businesses of Dangote are warehoused in
Speaker 3: the group. The fertilizer business as a group, just like
Speaker 3: Dangote currently, I think it does about fifty two million
Speaker 3: tons of cement if I'm not mistaken, around the continent,
Speaker 3: and all of that cement operations are warehoused in the group,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: So I don't mean I'm not the banker. So I
Speaker 2: don't know how this is going to structure. If the
Speaker 2: fertilizer business in Ethiopia.
Speaker 3: And the other places where there's going to be fertilizer.
Speaker 2: Plants around the continent are going to be warehoused in
Speaker 2: the group. And if when you do an IPO.
Speaker 3: In Nigeria and whatever revenues that comes to the regional
Speaker 3: fertilizer pressures around the continent are going to be warehoused
Speaker 3: in the as an entity.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to report to the group, you know.
Speaker 2: But I think the fertilizer business is very, very big,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I think there's a plan to grow the fertilizer business
Speaker 3: about twenty million tons around the continent within the next
Speaker 3: five to seven years.
Speaker 2: But however, when you look at the refinery, you know,
Speaker 2: you Finiti is the kick.
Speaker 3: Finari is a kick because if you go to one
Speaker 3: point four million and barrals per day, you're going to
Speaker 3: be doing anywhere around one hundred and thirty to five
Speaker 3: million liters of PMS on a daily business. And you're
Speaker 3: going to be doing just nearly a hundred million liters
Speaker 3: of diesel. You know, that dwarfs any any oppressions around
Speaker 3: the world.
Speaker 2: Anywhere in the world, you're going to be doing.
Speaker 3: You're going to be doing anywhere around sixty million liters
Speaker 3: of vivational field jet A one, you know, and then
Speaker 3: you have other derivatives. You have non transportation feels like,
Speaker 3: you know, the Dangote has one of the most sophisticated
Speaker 3: sulfur recovery units.
Speaker 2: In the world.
Speaker 3: So you know, when you when you refine crude into
Speaker 3: NAFTA and then you're distilled with the area. You know,
Speaker 3: in the refinery you produce sulfur because crude oil has sulfur.
Speaker 3: Even in Nigerian crude has the lower software in the world,
Speaker 3: you know as zerop and WULL five percide compared to
Speaker 3: the sulfurs crude from other places that has up to
Speaker 3: THIRTUBO zero and thirty zerup five percides. The software recovery
Speaker 3: unity ensures that the sulfur is recovered and then that
Speaker 3: software that is recovered is now created into what the
Speaker 3: cost of fauric acid.
Speaker 2: That is also a derivative for manufacturing. You know.
Speaker 3: Then you have tense like petrochemical phystog that is used
Speaker 3: for polliating in polyvinal pully, propellan crystals, plastics and all
Speaker 3: of that stuff. Quite in a long list of manufacturing
Speaker 3: and piece for B to B. Then you have residual
Speaker 3: few oils that you can put in the vacuum stallation
Speaker 3: in the processing to base oil.
Speaker 2: You know. So the value chain is very complex and
Speaker 2: it's huge.
Speaker 1: So just final question so to hair, Yeah, the head
Speaker 1: to head.
Speaker 2: The refinery business.
Speaker 3: You know, in the long run, you know it's going
Speaker 3: to give you more value than fertilizer. But fertilizer is
Speaker 3: just as big because one metric tunel fertilizer traits between
Speaker 3: thirty seven to four hundred dollars for metric turn and
Speaker 3: there's a huge amound for you, you know around the world.
Speaker 1: Okay, just just full up questions, right, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if he's going to import all his crude, Well, will
Speaker 1: it change any of the return dynamics or he has
Speaker 1: to get Does it matter if he uses Nigerian crude?
Speaker 1: Does the arrow eye change it anyway?
Speaker 2: So I'll tell you that your crack spread.
Speaker 3: Like I said, Nigerian crude about tech four blades of
Speaker 3: ninurine crude has a lower.
Speaker 2: Level of sulfur in the world API degree of mostly
Speaker 2: thats one point one.
Speaker 3: So the level of sulftware recovery is lower than for
Speaker 3: the crew that you imports into Nigeria.
Speaker 2: And the transportation fuels.
Speaker 3: You get from Nigerian crude, which are lighter grade cruds,
Speaker 3: is actually eighty twenty, so you get around eighty percent
Speaker 3: transportation fuels and twenty percent non transportation fuels. But for
Speaker 3: cruise that has density that a higher and then the
Speaker 3: API degree that is lower.
Speaker 7: Than tensity degrees that's one point one degrees, you get
Speaker 7: transportation fuels of like sixty percent and non transportation fuels
Speaker 7: like betrochemical fit style presidial fuel oils.
Speaker 2: Like your what's it called? Now, you know, we're quite
Speaker 2: a number of those non.
Speaker 3: Transportation fuel derivatives. You get forty percent from crude that
Speaker 3: has had dansity with.
Speaker 2: A low IPI degree. So it's just a matter of
Speaker 2: you know, the company doing.
Speaker 3: Is ecologies and asking himself how much how much transportation
Speaker 3: fuels do we want a crack spread compared to non
Speaker 3: transportation fuels, and what makes sense a bat time considering
Speaker 3: that tavier Great crews are actually cheaper than enlighter great cruits.
Speaker 2: You know, and you know do this, but it costs
Speaker 2: money to.
Speaker 3: Bring in crude into Nigeria, and of crude costo money.
Speaker 3: I was speaking earlier and I said that it's on
Speaker 3: about six hundred and fifty million barrels of crude, sorry
Speaker 3: you six hundred and in the six hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: million dollars sorry worth of crude only on a monthly
Speaker 3: basis he spends about ten million dollars monthly handling constant.
Speaker 3: Then in Nigeria, I was speaking earlier, I said that
Speaker 3: there are grades of crude that has another extra five
Speaker 3: dollars twenty cents commission for the operato or the JMI
Speaker 3: partner given to your TOD part trader and then selling
Speaker 3: to him that doesn't kill when he buys crewed internationally.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: So these are the variables that we have to look
Speaker 3: at the situates and look at and put on the table.
Speaker 2: I say, okay, on Nigerian crude, you have lose.
Speaker 3: You get more transportation fuels and non transportation fuels, but
Speaker 3: I'm having to pay and avery your third dollar fifty
Speaker 3: cents as extra commission to buy Nigeria coulde on the
Speaker 3: international crude is five to six dollarship ad than Nigerian
Speaker 3: crude because I don't have to pay those commissions that
Speaker 3: are imposed on me despite domestical supply opplications. But I
Speaker 3: get forty percent non transportation fuels and transportation fields.
Speaker 2: You know, and the level of software is higher which I.
Speaker 3: Can convert into sulphuric acid and sell to B to
Speaker 3: B companies for other manufacturing MMPs. So all these are
Speaker 3: things that you know, the management of the finite has
Speaker 3: to sit down and look at and say what mix
Speaker 3: sens for.
Speaker 2: Us, what's the best? But I'll tell you that there's
Speaker 2: no way in the world where you have.
Speaker 3: Your major producer of crude and then your major flagship refiner.
Speaker 2: After all, all crude in the world is refined.
Speaker 3: What's the purpose of coude or youth is not put
Speaker 3: into refinities or refined into derivatives. You know, what's the
Speaker 3: purpose of it? So why do you have a situation
Speaker 3: where dan Wood has on came twenty billion dollars and
Speaker 3: he wants to put an extra five to increase capacity
Speaker 3: and build the secondry, and he cannot sub scrude from
Speaker 3: his markets in Nigeria and is having to import crudely
Speaker 3: for vessels to import.
Speaker 2: Crude into the country doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: And you don't have a regulator delay in permits sometimes
Speaker 3: for him to approve permits for him to bring in
Speaker 3: his products, his vessels to come or move lead Nigeria.
Speaker 2: This is a fact.
Speaker 3: So did all these are things I want to ask
Speaker 3: yourself because one of the reasons why he built them
Speaker 3: around the first place. You know, it was the comparative
Speaker 3: advantage of Nigeria being a member of I started not
Speaker 3: being a member of OPET because you know, I've told
Speaker 3: you I don't see the economic benefits going forward of
Speaker 3: staying as.
Speaker 2: A member of OPET.
Speaker 3: You know, Nigeria being the major crudle producer that I've
Speaker 3: been doing this business for fifty seven years. What's the
Speaker 3: point of view having a refinery in Nigeria if you
Speaker 3: can also scrudle in.
Speaker 2: Nigeria, does it make sense?
Speaker 3: Why will you have a REFINERYEA and then the import
Speaker 3: crudle for markets in other continents?
Speaker 2: Does it make sense? It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: Right India, there's the largest refinery currently. Wish is that
Speaker 3: it's hard crude, which is the reason why you've seen
Speaker 3: that despite the sanctions on Russia.
Speaker 2: You know, two after what happened happened, and with sanctions,
Speaker 2: Russia was placed on.
Speaker 3: An oil price cup of sixty dollars night is reduced
Speaker 3: for five. One of the things that the consequences of
Speaker 3: invading Ukraine was that they expelled Russia from what they
Speaker 3: called the Swift system that connects about thirteen thousand banks
Speaker 3: around the world. That SWIFT headquarters is based in Belgium.
Speaker 3: You know, more than eight hundred and fifty countries are
Speaker 3: members of the SWIFT system, you know, which means that
Speaker 3: Russian oil and as companies can open elsi's to export
Speaker 3: Russian crude. So you have Russia operate some of the
Speaker 3: largest fleet shadow fleet ships systems in the world where
Speaker 3: the ship crewed on that sanction to countries like China,
Speaker 3: to countries like India, and you know through ship to
Speaker 3: ship transfer, you know, bunkering hops and they're able to
Speaker 3: buy pass offa at the US Treasury and they don't
Speaker 3: come manger sanctions. Now India wishes they had crewed, China
Speaker 3: wishes they had crew They don't have crude in commercial quantities,
Speaker 3: they have it too import Even Nigeria is a major producer.
Speaker 3: What is the advantage of being a media producer if
Speaker 3: you're a finale I cannot source crude in Nigeria and
Speaker 3: you're having to play all kinds of bottlenecks and road.
Speaker 2: Blocks for him.
Speaker 3: Understand participles considering that any pieces a shoulder in the refinery.
Speaker 1: By the way, okay well said, just want to get
Speaker 1: that context for folks to follow. Let's get who I
Speaker 1: think it was. Who was a Kilo killer?
Speaker 2: Then Labby?
Speaker 1: So do killo Labby? Then killer? Sorry, let's go to Kilo.
Speaker 2: Kevin.
Speaker 1: I sent you indeed just in case killers. Go ahead, Okay,
Speaker 1: good name Calum.
Speaker 2: I I would like to make a comment and also
Speaker 2: ask a question very ver quickly.
Speaker 8: It seems to me that I get all the talk
Speaker 8: we always do every year about an NPC governance and
Speaker 8: couple of governors and everything, but I don't think any
Speaker 8: but it seems fairly straightforward and clear to me that
Speaker 8: any same governments. I'm not talking with the government that
Speaker 8: cares about governance, but the government that's exactly moved by politics.
Speaker 2: Well not really want to reform the NNPC.
Speaker 9: It makes a lot of political sense to keep any
Speaker 9: PC the way it is as redo the corruption and
Speaker 9: redo these inefficiencies as it currently is, because it's a
Speaker 9: way to buy fables from people, move funding in in
Speaker 9: dodgy is and all of that.
Speaker 2: Why give that up when you can.
Speaker 10: When when using other apparateses of states can be much
Speaker 10: more difficult and much more susceptible to.
Speaker 2: Accountability and and probing and all of that.
Speaker 10: So I I so on the issue of the n MPC,
Speaker 10: I have sort of tuned off from the whole thing
Speaker 10: about asking for governors for accountability and corporate governance in
Speaker 10: the in the organization because it doesn't seem to me
Speaker 10: that any government is going to do that, not any
Speaker 10: of the people that are planning for transparency in the
Speaker 10: political space right now, it doesn't seem to mean that
Speaker 10: any of them would ever do that because it serves
Speaker 10: their interest, their immediate interest, to keep its going as
Speaker 10: it is.
Speaker 2: My question now is.
Speaker 10: With the with the political economy reality of n NPC,
Speaker 10: how do we how do we ensure that the NNPC
Speaker 10: is able to encourage a thriving oil sector, thriving all
Speaker 10: and gas sector, that incentives are aligned for companies to
Speaker 10: invest in both the capabilities on your capabilities and also
Speaker 10: capabilities and also the maintenance of only infrastructure in the country.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Kevin. That's for you. Great question.
Speaker 1: Kelvin Calum Yeah, I like the question back for let
Speaker 1: me he's basically killo in some ways asking how can
Speaker 1: NNPC be more efficient for Kilo. If you want to
Speaker 1: give your own language, you want to see it again
Speaker 1: your question again?
Speaker 10: Okay, my question is giving the political economy realities, being
Speaker 10: that no compility is ever going to reform the NPC.
Speaker 2: We're just doing a lot of intellectual.
Speaker 10: Stimulation's intellectually stimulating talk here. How do we ensure that
Speaker 10: the incentives of that NPC is able to create a
Speaker 10: thriving of the stimulated No, not driving, It's able to
Speaker 10: create incentives that will encourage companies to invest in the
Speaker 10: capability on you and of your especially local oil companies,
Speaker 10: and also invest in all that's infrastructure in the country.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: So, first of all, I think we earlier we spoke
Speaker 3: about governors for mcgoverness is the biggest problem that has
Speaker 3: I think if I were getting you right, I think
Speaker 3: you're talking about how the government has strengthened independent like
Speaker 3: the relation supplies.
Speaker 2: And the likes of the independence that are springing up.
Speaker 3: They make up what they called independent Portrayum Producers group.
Speaker 10: So, as you point, am I correct, Sorry girls in sorry,
Speaker 10: So what I'm saying is this, So you know, local
Speaker 10: companies people always say that they lack the sorry, the
Speaker 10: ability to do offshield.
Speaker 2: Reading and all of that.
Speaker 10: So given the opic system, the current system of the NNPC,
Speaker 10: how do we ensure that they that these local companies
Speaker 10: able to develop that capacity to be able to do
Speaker 10: offshore e MP and also to ensure that they invest
Speaker 10: in the all and that's infrastructure giving the system. I'm
Speaker 10: not talking of the deals. The stem of what there
Speaker 10: is accountability and then which I don't.
Speaker 2: Think it is great to happen.
Speaker 3: So it's first of all, I think finance is the
Speaker 3: problem for the independent. You know, raising finance is not
Speaker 3: is not very easy. And the reason I said that
Speaker 3: is because a lot of them, you know, do p
Speaker 3: ex flaws, pre expert exam the facility. Yeah, if you
Speaker 3: look at the acquisition of sales assets or over five
Speaker 3: of the Wales, I'll tell you that anywhere forty for.
Speaker 2: The thirty percent of that.
Speaker 3: You know, acquisition was funded by debt death that was
Speaker 3: given by the company selling.
Speaker 2: Two degree the four of them.
Speaker 3: So you can imagine four companies community get from a
Speaker 3: consultum and then in the acquisition model the company is
Speaker 3: selling gave a debt of an for two percent that
Speaker 3: is recoverable with gas. So the company will take the gas,
Speaker 3: some of the associated gas trapped and put it back
Speaker 3: into the IGVC that processes lergy. You can imagine, so
Speaker 3: you see that there is a financing problem. That's the
Speaker 3: first problem that the independents have. I think it's going
Speaker 3: to get better over time, you know. I think they
Speaker 3: are going to grow. And if they keep a lot
Speaker 3: of retaining in our invest backs into the business, expand
Speaker 3: the side of the business, they will grow over the
Speaker 3: next five to ten years.
Speaker 2: But there's also a matter of experience. The IOCs, the
Speaker 2: six SI Stars, they have the kind of experience the.
Speaker 3: Technical debt that the independents don't have because they've been
Speaker 3: in the business for decades. So it's not just about you,
Speaker 3: you know, winning big rounds and getting blocks off shore,
Speaker 3: you know, and raising money.
Speaker 2: You also need experience. You know.
Speaker 3: I think that experience you cannot buy it with money.
Speaker 3: But I also think that you cannot fast forward it.
Speaker 3: You need to allow the process to take its cost,
Speaker 3: so it will take time for you to see it.
Speaker 2: Independence operat on shore and shadow.
Speaker 3: What has to actually migrates and graduates at the point
Speaker 3: where they are able to go off shore to do
Speaker 3: what them likes of snapcher Eso emp Chevron and the
Speaker 3: likes are able to do any and they are able
Speaker 3: to do it to take time. I don't think there's
Speaker 3: any need for you to rush that process because the
Speaker 3: independence are they have their legs are shaking, you know,
Speaker 3: they're not there.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, thanks for that. And if you
Speaker 1: can move to kill to labby, they will do abdul
Speaker 1: and get to Abdul. Yes, yes it so let's to
Speaker 1: lobby you go ahead and order. How are you doing?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: So if you could speak up just a bit, that
Speaker 1: would be really helpful.
Speaker 2: So can you hear? Yes? Okay, So thank you.
Speaker 11: So what I think is the issue here is we
Speaker 11: really talked about the governor's.
Speaker 2: Issue related to an NPC.
Speaker 12: So and also before that it's one of the political
Speaker 12: power that government has to fulkill.
Speaker 2: What's I do? So my question here is, now you
Speaker 2: think an f PC can be wrong?
Speaker 12: I mean in a better way because movements wouldn't want
Speaker 12: to give out this this entity because of their political interest.
Speaker 10: So just to kind of bring efficiency from the family business.
Speaker 11: I'm also looking at the fact that it's coming to
Speaker 11: the public very soon. I mean as a private investor,
Speaker 11: I won't have this set of management running a business
Speaker 11: and also want.
Speaker 2: To put my money in there.
Speaker 12: I mean an average individual, So what kind of models
Speaker 12: or I mean business or leadership strategy.
Speaker 11: Do you think an NPC can have built and then
Speaker 11: to kind of be more efficient compared to the other
Speaker 11: players industry.
Speaker 2: Question?
Speaker 1: You're you're the NPC rep here, so we have to
Speaker 1: ask you, did you yeah, yeah, yeah, the np Yeah,
Speaker 1: the residents expert. So I mean we want to know
Speaker 1: because I think what people are trying to find out
Speaker 1: from you is this. We know n n PC is
Speaker 1: not running the way it's supposed to run, and we
Speaker 1: want this thing to run properly so there's revenue, so
Speaker 1: that I'm trying to find out from you what is wrong?
Speaker 1: In in very so sense, what is wrong? How can
Speaker 1: it be fixed? Because we don't want it to die.
Speaker 1: We want it to be successful. And that's where the
Speaker 1: sentiment is Calu First, like I said, you need to
Speaker 1: fix the governor's issue. N NPC is a limited libility company.
Speaker 3: Is no longer in state corporationion, is governed by Computer
Speaker 3: Live Matters Acts and is governed by the PIA. Okay
Speaker 3: is a concessionaire of the oil and assets that belongs
Speaker 3: to the Federal Government of Naga, which means the gen
Speaker 3: Is principlesure all that, but.
Speaker 13: Now the f GEN does not have direct access by
Speaker 13: law to decate the day to day management of the entity.
Speaker 2: It doesn't.
Speaker 3: That's the problem because what you have is a federal government,
Speaker 3: as specifically the State House of Presidency sending memos and
Speaker 3: directive to the Limited Library Company thinking that it is
Speaker 3: still a state corporation and an appendage of the government.
Speaker 2: It's not so. That was why the PI is set up.
Speaker 3: The Ministry of Finance administr of Petroleum Corporated and.
Speaker 2: Movie comes from Finance. Movie comes from Minister of Petroleum.
Speaker 3: But now the proposed amendment is going to arrest all
Speaker 3: of that beneficial ownership to Movie, which means that any
Speaker 3: communication to an NPC, either the board or the management,
Speaker 3: is supposed to come from the State House.
Speaker 2: The state House represents the federal government.
Speaker 3: The federal government is one of only literary shareholders in
Speaker 3: the MBC.
Speaker 2: Remember who is the FGN. FGN is federal state.
Speaker 3: Amical government supposed to come from the State House to
Speaker 3: the Minister of Finance. Minister of Finance who send communications
Speaker 3: to the beneficial owner Mofie.
Speaker 2: Mophie will send communication to the board. That is the structure.
Speaker 2: If you neglect this structure then there's a governance problem
Speaker 2: number one.
Speaker 3: Number two, the State House, the fineral government of Nigeria
Speaker 3: National Economic Council is supposed to convey the National Economic
Speaker 3: Council of Privatization and approve effect memo for an MPC
Speaker 3: to start the process of going to an IPO and
Speaker 3: don't do like MPC, and that process will require for you,
Speaker 3: and I'm going somewhere that present is required for you
Speaker 3: to do like an audit of your contingent assets and liabilities,
Speaker 3: evaluation and classification of all your assets across board, upstream, midstreamed,
Speaker 3: downstream right, so that you know what contingent assets and
Speaker 3: liabilities are right and it will help your investment bankers
Speaker 3: to be able to do their building and.
Speaker 2: Prices stock appropriately.
Speaker 3: When you get to an IPO, the shareholders will sit
Speaker 3: on the table and now decide who they want to
Speaker 3: appoint the board and who they want in executive management.
Speaker 2: It will no longer be State.
Speaker 3: House press release the President appoints x y z people.
Speaker 3: This person is EVP, this person is on the board,
Speaker 3: this person is management. It will not be the President
Speaker 3: that appoints the GCU or anymore.
Speaker 2: It will be the shareholders that will sit down in shareholder's.
Speaker 3: Meetings and make a decision on who they want to
Speaker 3: be in executive management and who they.
Speaker 2: Want to be on the board. They will do complete.
Speaker 3: Business processor engineering and business transformation and determine what.
Speaker 2: You know, subsidiaries in the group are dead, are draining money.
Speaker 3: For example, you can see that their finery businesses are dead,
Speaker 3: completely dead. They dream by their stocking money. They'll be
Speaker 3: shocking money for the last twenty five years. Right, if
Speaker 3: you send an MPC to an IPO, any reasonable.
Speaker 2: Meeting of shareholders will.
Speaker 3: Vote for that NMPC finarity business to be completely act
Speaker 3: off and instead they'll vote to become shareholders in any
Speaker 3: commercial entity that is operating financial sat for DANNTI, for example,
Speaker 3: irreasonable shareholders meeting with vote right for them to increase
Speaker 3: their shareholding in the danguitary has offered for them to
Speaker 3: increase their shareholding in your finance twenty percent from several.
Speaker 2: Two percents that they have currently has offered for them
Speaker 2: to buy more shares have been taking up his offer.
Speaker 2: That's left to be seen, you know.
Speaker 3: So unless you have this process done right, you know,
Speaker 3: you shouldn't expect anything to change.
Speaker 2: You're just going to continue to seeing in interference affairs
Speaker 2: interferes and the management on board will you know, be
Speaker 2: handicapped and then off the walls to do their own.
Speaker 1: Which we just sell the we just selling PC doing
Speaker 1: PLC or ip O move on and it goes to
Speaker 1: private sector?
Speaker 2: What makes what makes better sense?
Speaker 3: Instead of do you say you want to sell don
Speaker 3: JV for example, what makes better sense is for you
Speaker 3: to actually send into the market.
Speaker 2: And say, okay, we're going to sell thirty percent or
Speaker 2: forty percent to.
Speaker 1: The markets thirty percent so Cetagram will still own it,
Speaker 1: they will still go on or run it.
Speaker 2: Is that what that means?
Speaker 3: No, I'm just giving an example. I'm just giving an example.
Speaker 2: That's what makes better sense than selling down JG. That's
Speaker 2: what makes better sense.
Speaker 3: Do you send it to an IPO and allow the
Speaker 3: markets to be the market, allow the markets to learn
Speaker 3: the way markets run efficiently?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. So can I just real quick? Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: basically ways. Maybe if it's is sense markets and if
Speaker 2: energies still retain.
Speaker 11: The significance I mean it's centigal.
Speaker 2: The audience, and then it's not going to change the
Speaker 2: leadership and the governance structure.
Speaker 3: I mean next is actually the biggest concern And how
Speaker 3: do you think them in sending.
Speaker 2: It to the markets, we change them. It wange, it
Speaker 2: will change, it will change. If when you have shareholders
Speaker 2: no shareholders, right, you.
Speaker 3: Have probably like a two hundred billion dollar form in
Speaker 3: the US that was maybe five percent of it. You
Speaker 3: have quite a number of those phones that can relatively
Speaker 3: almost like to five percent of it. Because the board
Speaker 3: blocks in an ipe of private placements and they have
Speaker 3: a footing block on the board, it would.
Speaker 2: Change, it would change. Okay. So Leegi is one of
Speaker 2: the best run companies in Nigeria. Every if I have
Speaker 2: questions for them that you know, our thing is that thing.
Speaker 2: It's one of the best companies in Nigeria. FIST has
Speaker 2: designated them as one of the most complaints tax paying
Speaker 2: companies in Nigeria.
Speaker 3: Is a niger the government owns for the nine percent
Speaker 3: doout share any owns fifty one percent?
Speaker 2: Related, is the government able to tell an allegin what
Speaker 2: to do?
Speaker 1: No, no, why why forty one forty nine percent?
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly present?
Speaker 3: Of course they have because when you when you when
Speaker 3: you relatively owns fifty one percent, you have controlling votes
Speaker 3: on the board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's my view of how any any position
Speaker 1: should go. It should be so have a technical partner,
Speaker 1: one as a core investor, then sell the other equity
Speaker 1: to niger Urians p fees Nigerian individuals. Nigerians own it,
Speaker 1: but the technical partner then come in to sort of
Speaker 1: partner roller. Aramco did it, you know, they did it
Speaker 1: all to get long term funding and technology in. They
Speaker 1: have the reserves. We boost that, we create jobs. We
Speaker 1: build out this thing into a mega company. Not this
Speaker 1: one point five numbers who are doing I'm celebrating five
Speaker 1: point four trillion. We can do much much more, Kevin.
Speaker 2: That's just my view.
Speaker 1: So can you're about to go? I think we have
Speaker 1: space for just two more questions for you. I've got
Speaker 1: abdul abdul jabbai ya and I'll just take dexter real quick, guys,
Speaker 1: say we can just tell Kevin buy and then yes,
Speaker 1: I can please go ahead real quick.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I have two quick questions.
Speaker 14: Number one, what about if you do take an epcity
Speaker 14: to the markets, What about the risk of the government
Speaker 14: in power going through cronies to acquire a substantials taking
Speaker 14: and PC just like we've seen in the power sector.
Speaker 14: My second question is a story off topic about the
Speaker 14: tax reforms. So while the benefits of the tax reforms
Speaker 14: are positive, the reforms have no control or leverage over
Speaker 14: how the government spends the additional revenue and for twenty
Speaker 14: twenty four the recurrent expend sorry, the dead service. The
Speaker 14: federal government spent twice as much on death service as
Speaker 14: it did on capital expenditure, which means you're essentially taking
Speaker 14: money from your future generations and.
Speaker 2: Spending it today.
Speaker 14: So my suggestion is, in your development levy that are
Speaker 14: charging for its done and Senny Trust fund, why don't
Speaker 14: you portion a part of your development levy to your.
Speaker 2: Sovereign with fund so that while you have is not
Speaker 2: really practical to assume that.
Speaker 14: The NAJA government will starts spending responsibly overnight.
Speaker 2: You have something that when you do have your governments
Speaker 2: that is that that.
Speaker 14: Is spending responsibly, they would have something substantial to spend.
Speaker 2: Questions.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Yeah, I think your second was just spot on.
Speaker 1: That's a wonderful idea. Just maybe if it points to
Speaker 1: zero one, but we'll just take that money give suvery
Speaker 1: world's phone. I think it's a fantastic solution. I doubt
Speaker 1: they will do because you know in Nigeria they will
Speaker 1: tell you that Christians who must share the money and
Speaker 1: not spend not not say what fantastic suggestion, Kevin? Did
Speaker 1: you hear his first question? He's basically why what? What
Speaker 1: stops all the billions from just buying up an NPC
Speaker 1: and not sending it to people like me?
Speaker 2: So you remember when your first bank sold by about
Speaker 2: to the CRUs company. Yeah, and you know, I think
Speaker 2: with significant control.
Speaker 3: PSC was identified as a company that was newly registered
Speaker 3: in the UK and it raised some concerns. So I'm
Speaker 3: aware that central Bank is it's prevailing on that entity
Speaker 3: to resell the shares.
Speaker 15: You know, a report risk for personal significant significant control
Speaker 15: not having Google have gone through the New.
Speaker 3: York Customer KYC processes compliance processes that the Central Bank
Speaker 3: has suited from.
Speaker 2: Both the bank and other financial investors acts you know,
Speaker 2: financial institutions are you know, so.
Speaker 3: When it comes to its right there, compliance processes personal
Speaker 3: significant control that the system has protocol for. The question
Speaker 3: is will live in first And the reason I broadest
Speaker 3: example of First Bank is because it gives a perfect
Speaker 3: picture of what you ask that was, what are the
Speaker 3: chances that unknown people you know.
Speaker 2: Or you know politicians, politically exposed persons who do not
Speaker 2: learn their money through.
Speaker 3: Beneficial owners and offshore accounts to buy all these shares.
Speaker 2: You know, if you go through that process, the chances
Speaker 2: of that happening will be reduced.
Speaker 3: So you have a block that goes to the general
Speaker 3: public in Nigeria, you have a block that goes to
Speaker 3: soitual investors.
Speaker 2: You can apportion that that idea, you know, and you ensure.
Speaker 3: That the block that goes to soitual investors goes to
Speaker 3: soitual investors with the track record you know, not the
Speaker 3: companies that will set up twenty four months ago, ve
Speaker 3: months ago with no history, and you have people sitting.
Speaker 2: On the board who are like.
Speaker 3: Nominal paseholders on behalf of the real owners at the background.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if you answers your.
Speaker 1: Question, and Kevin, there also many ways to do this right.
Speaker 1: You can basically make the shares non voting for a
Speaker 1: period or non voting forever. So if you have fifty
Speaker 1: percent shares, you want to start Nagian public and simply
Speaker 1: say these fifty percent shares are non voting for ten
Speaker 1: years or non voting forever. So why would I buy
Speaker 1: your shares if I can then use it to then
Speaker 1: have a board seat. If I want to buy your
Speaker 1: shirt to make revenues, fantastic. So you have your money,
Speaker 1: you want to sell your shares to Dangote or to whatever.
Speaker 1: You sell your shares to them, they get the revenues,
Speaker 1: but they will not use those shares to get a
Speaker 1: boat seat. Nobody will buy them. But they are real
Speaker 1: shares because they pay you revenue. They pay you income
Speaker 1: because it's a utility. So when you buy a company
Speaker 1: like NNPC, you are buying for income. The price will double, yes,
Speaker 1: but it's not going to You're not buying Dangote because
Speaker 1: going to go to one thousand in presenting one week.
Speaker 1: It's for income. It's a utility like Exonmobile, like Chevron.
Speaker 1: So make the shares transferable but are not votable, so
Speaker 1: you can sell them, but those shares cannot count for
Speaker 1: you to vote. Only the ones that you buy from
Speaker 1: primary issue are votable. End of story. Nobody will chase
Speaker 1: you to sell it. But yeah, I think that's a
Speaker 1: good one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the last question is it's gonna be from Dexter
Speaker 1: Dexta Brian, Then will just let's call claims has a
Speaker 1: stop Dexter. You've got the flow dexter. Dexter has sold
Speaker 1: themselves out kept in real quickly. I just so will
Speaker 1: before I let you go, Kevin, let's just come back
Speaker 1: to our earlier conversations we are having. The wheel is
Speaker 1: an insurance company sell uping the Bahamas is owned by
Speaker 1: the NNPC one hundred percent. So NNPC is borrowing money
Speaker 1: from that insurance company to invest in Gagada IPP. That's
Speaker 1: what's going on, the boring money from that company to
Speaker 1: invest in Guaguada I PP. So yeah, I'm just selling
Speaker 1: what I'm.
Speaker 2: Reading, sir. In two thousand positions of the company Call
Speaker 2: Limited in the Cayman Islands.
Speaker 3: I have the document from the Government of the Kymans
Speaker 3: kingston Man Islands, and NPC Engine Limited is responsible for
Speaker 3: trading some equity.
Speaker 2: Lengine on behalf of the group.
Speaker 3: So the question I have is why are you setting
Speaker 3: up a company offshore in the Kman Islands.
Speaker 1: Why the might I tell you that, I mean my
Speaker 1: same iss to raise funds there, because this company is
Speaker 1: funds are raising there were to do the borrowed n
Speaker 1: NPC forty six billion for the six billions for the
Speaker 1: question to ask, is the money is that the companies
Speaker 1: offshore they had gotten it from the America. The visually
Speaker 1: own sovereign bonds in in Kyman. We don't know because
Speaker 1: this is in Bahamas. That's why it's Bermuda. That's why
Speaker 1: it's coated there because you can't see it. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's what I'm trying to go to.
Speaker 2: Is this right?
Speaker 1: N a PC is making a trillion in profits, but
Speaker 1: it's borrowing money from sufts. Is moving the money all around.
Speaker 2: You have E E.
Speaker 1: M P lending money to and serve. You have the
Speaker 1: wheel lend them money to.
Speaker 2: All the risk.
Speaker 1: All right. I mean there's a lot here. The last
Speaker 1: one really last one size this n NPC refinery in
Speaker 1: the one in l m A. There's a privacy the
Speaker 1: company that has gone there to set up a new
Speaker 1: refinery in Lema. Hear me out. This private company has
Speaker 1: gone to lem number one and n PC gave them
Speaker 1: seven billion to buy equity from the company setting up
Speaker 1: in lem A number one number two. N PC is
Speaker 1: then investing equity in that company. I believe it's fifteen
Speaker 1: percent n NPC number three.
Speaker 3: Seven billion meant to buy.
Speaker 1: So the company is playing rent. But the sampline is
Speaker 1: the buying the equity and the sweat capital of the company.
Speaker 1: That's seven to seven with I don't know I'm telling
Speaker 1: you what I'm reading. I'm don't telling you all that.
Speaker 1: So let me just give you the whole question. So
Speaker 1: number one NP is investing some seven billion in this
Speaker 1: in this company coming to lm A so n p's
Speaker 1: own company. In fact, the refiner is going to sell
Speaker 1: space to this new company in Lema. The company is
Speaker 1: going to come and invested in that company Number one
Speaker 1: fifteen percent equity Number one, number two, number two, number
Speaker 1: two the Nigerian local content phone. There's a local content
Speaker 1: phone drawn by Nigerian whatever management content thinking they're investing
Speaker 1: twenty percent in this same company.
Speaker 2: So hear me.
Speaker 1: Now, a private company is going to rent a federation asset,
Speaker 1: then the federation asset is investing in the private company
Speaker 1: or not that federal agency is investing in this private
Speaker 1: company to set up a refinery in a federation asset.
Speaker 1: How does that make any.
Speaker 2: Sense without the approval of economic Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what okay? It's like me if I go
Speaker 1: to the landlord and I say, lol, lord, how to
Speaker 1: rent your house, the landlord gives me the house. The
Speaker 1: landlord invests in my rent, The landlord's wife invests in
Speaker 1: my in my rent, the landlord's sister buys easy for
Speaker 1: my house, but I'm in the landlord. Doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: Why can't they end PC simply settle his own, smaller
Speaker 1: company of their own in its own refinery. Why most
Speaker 1: a private company come from outside. I'm asking questions, honestly,
Speaker 1: maybe some you can explain it better. I'm not accusing,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it doesn't make.
Speaker 2: Sense to me.
Speaker 3: Do you realize that you know the kills rebellionaire and
Speaker 3: managing the debt refineries that it owns today?
Speaker 1: Okay? Really, so why not sell the refinery to this company?
Speaker 1: Why not sell the entire element refinery to this probate company.
Speaker 2: I'll give you an instance. So you remember when there
Speaker 2: was the whole Pengerson and No peng issue. Pengerson came
Speaker 2: out and said, oh, that it doesn't make any sense
Speaker 2: to sell the NMP refineries.
Speaker 3: Same Pengerson that said that the refineries are working about
Speaker 3: nineteen months ago. You know, they they said the engineers,
Speaker 3: their experts, that they've gone there, they've accessed and they're working,
Speaker 3: they're producing, they're supplying the markets, you know.
Speaker 2: And then you have all these unions who.
Speaker 3: Are in the system and bend in the system, whose
Speaker 3: members benefit from the system. Quite a number of the
Speaker 3: work has on the payrole of the government or refineries
Speaker 3: and members of the unions. The government, for example, I'm
Speaker 3: not holding brief for the government or excusing them from
Speaker 3: for their mismanagement and efficiency. But in government comes and
Speaker 3: says we're going to sell the refineries. News it goes
Speaker 3: and protests, shut down the country, We shut down the
Speaker 3: entire as said sector. You're not going to sell the
Speaker 3: refineries their government owned entities. Blah blah blah. You see
Speaker 3: the problem on one side. On the other side, you
Speaker 3: got a results for sale agreement and you for sell
Speaker 3: your crude or your guys.
Speaker 2: You get the cash.
Speaker 3: You say, you're putting the game into an around and
Speaker 3: as thirty billion dollars wasted over the last six years,
Speaker 3: nothing came out of it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: The question you should ask is if any PC was
Speaker 3: in the hands of the market, not the government, will
Speaker 3: the show that's vote to keep those assets?
Speaker 1: Yes, I is, no, okay, so.
Speaker 2: All right, so.
Speaker 1: So so Kevin, I dially want to want the questions
Speaker 1: I need to answer this, but this whole transaction wasn't
Speaker 1: sit well with me. We're buying we're buying ten percent
Speaker 1: because if the company is called African Finer Reporter Got Limited,
Speaker 1: were buying ten percent for some seven billion.
Speaker 2: Without the National Economy CONSULM privatization approving.
Speaker 3: It doesn't need any sense for you to lease the
Speaker 3: aspects that belows to the graduation.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not a least, it's not well, let's
Speaker 1: leave it at that. It's this is the thing about
Speaker 1: the report that there are lots of there's a lot
Speaker 1: of information the report, right, but it doesn't really make
Speaker 1: sense if you really look at it, just in accounting
Speaker 1: or financial management, just common sense accounting. Why why are
Speaker 1: you paying for this invest When.
Speaker 3: An MBC was going to invest in down Finale in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, right, they were supposed to invest for
Speaker 3: the equivalent.
Speaker 2: Of twenty percent. The agreement was that they were going
Speaker 2: to provide one billion.
Speaker 3: Dollars for seven point two percent, which you currently have,
Speaker 3: and that there raised the forces agreement. They loomed to
Speaker 3: pay and they were going to now put up the
Speaker 3: additional twelve point seven eight percent.
Speaker 2: At Recruder Fitz stock for a tot all valuable one
Speaker 2: per seven billion dollars. Now they didn't meet up exercise
Speaker 2: that's rights.
Speaker 3: The right of post refuser through the period that there
Speaker 3: was supposed.
Speaker 2: Exercises that and expired. The evaluation of refiners change because
Speaker 2: this was pretty produce production operationals have started, the refiners
Speaker 2: added bringing in revenue, so valuation has changed crassically. You know,
Speaker 2: there was a council memo from the Federal Executive Council
Speaker 2: to these effects. There was a council memo.
Speaker 3: So if you're going to allow a company to operate
Speaker 3: in a Federation.
Speaker 2: Asset and then invest in that company, you need a
Speaker 2: Caruncle memo approved.
Speaker 3: Okay, So the question is you ask and any where
Speaker 3: is the cauncle memo from the Federation.
Speaker 1: All right, I mean it's I'm just I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: just saying what I read here. But I mean, Kevin,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Like I said,
Speaker 1: we won't want to exhumes the good, the bad, the
Speaker 1: unknown in the NNPC report. I think if you've us
Speaker 1: a lot of deep industry analysis and answers to our questions,
Speaker 1: where civilians in this. What we really know is that
Speaker 1: NNPC in the past was very opaque. Now we're at
Speaker 1: least getting the reports. Hopefully the next five years not
Speaker 1: that we'll get reports, the whole structure will be a
Speaker 1: bit clearer, a bit simpler, and we should see this
Speaker 1: five point four trillion profit maybe show up.
Speaker 2: In fact.
Speaker 1: You know, like I asked you, who owns this money?
Speaker 1: You said, it's own by the federation. So that means
Speaker 1: that my small state should get a bit of this
Speaker 1: five point four This money should go towards doing something.
Speaker 1: I looked up the disbursements for university guys that are
Speaker 1: going to school. The disbursement. It's not a turndred billion.
Speaker 1: We've made five point four trillion. What it means that
Speaker 1: tomorrow the President cannot write a check debiting this NNPC
Speaker 1: net profit, debiting the cash raised from this net profit.
Speaker 1: And I'm not just gonna be five point four and
Speaker 1: then use that cash and pay off the debts of
Speaker 1: every student in Nigeria that has taken a loan under
Speaker 1: the Nigerian University Loan Scheme. We can pay it off
Speaker 1: tomorrow and convert that debt to equity on all our
Speaker 1: kids our kids should not have to take a loan
Speaker 1: to go to university. I went to a federal university.
Speaker 1: For the five years on a federal university, I did
Speaker 1: not pay one thousand naira. This is accommodation and tuition
Speaker 1: one thousand call it two thousand and five. I didn't pay.
Speaker 1: And I went to the same federal school that is
Speaker 1: still there in Nigeria today. So why shoul kids they pay?
Speaker 1: Have their politicians expenses reduced? No, So our kid should
Speaker 1: not be taking loans to go to school National sem
Speaker 1: Do they take loans to buy their important cars? No,
Speaker 1: so why should the kids take loans to go to university.
Speaker 1: So this Brazil took their royalties from their oil fields,
Speaker 1: the assault oil fields and took it to only health
Speaker 1: and education only two hundred percent royalties. Google it Brazil
Speaker 1: and they are down the road. So if Brazil can
Speaker 1: do it, we should also.
Speaker 2: Invest in this like this.
Speaker 1: Just when I spokes said, take this money as a
Speaker 1: seed and do something with it. We can't be announcing
Speaker 1: five point four trillion net profit and people are allowing
Speaker 1: not to buy pure water pool can feed doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense. There has to be real life impact of
Speaker 1: NNPC in the lives of Nigeria. So let's take this money.
Speaker 1: I don't prefer primary schools. If you want to pay
Speaker 1: the school fees for every Nigerian family this twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five is you bring your receipt, if you had a
Speaker 1: child in school, submit a receipt, the government will give
Speaker 1: you a refund on primary and secondary school phe is
Speaker 1: do it. It's going to be a direct dividends to
Speaker 1: Nigerian people that they own an NPC. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a big boost. We're paying so much for for
Speaker 1: PMS with MAD five point four trillion. Take that money
Speaker 1: and give it back to Niger's in one way or
Speaker 1: the other. That's just my own clothing. Total is Kevin to.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for you know, always a pleasure
Speaker 3: to be here on the space. You know, this space
Speaker 3: has been going on for five years. I dare say
Speaker 3: it's one of the most respected spaces on Twitter.
Speaker 2: Thank you, and one of the most consistent spaces. And
Speaker 2: it's amazing what you do.
Speaker 3: The ability to consilicate conversations, critical economic conversations, you.
Speaker 4: Know, and.
Speaker 2: The consistency you have is married and I'm very privileged
Speaker 2: and or not to have you know been.
Speaker 3: Percent answering questions today on this space, and thank you
Speaker 3: so much for having me. I wish everyone in lovely
Speaker 3: we considering that tomorrow is the first of December. In December,
Speaker 3: compliments of the season and advance. I wish you wonderful
Speaker 3: end of the year.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much that we'll do you're coming in
Speaker 1: and giving off those ask those questions for us. Like
Speaker 1: Kevin said, guys, we're in December. The whole year has
Speaker 1: come to the If you're from Nigeria, the whole year
Speaker 1: has come to December. This is when you count your
Speaker 1: assets and your liabilities and ask if you have made
Speaker 1: it for the whole eleven months. This is where you
Speaker 1: submit your AGM to your shareholders. So have you made it?
Speaker 1: Are you still on the process? You have about two
Speaker 1: weeks the year ending two weeks right because from the
Speaker 1: eighteenth Nijer trust down till about the ten or the
Speaker 1: fifty year, safe travels, everyone traveling. I'm not sure how
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this December with the insecurity in
Speaker 1: the all across the federation. I'm very happy the girls
Speaker 1: in Kevy were brought back, but I've been hearing reports
Speaker 1: of more people being taken being kidnapped is very very sad.
Speaker 1: There's the guy that sends me I don't know this guy.
Speaker 1: He sends me dms and he's sending me dms of
Speaker 1: what the United States is doing in Nigeria. I've asked
Speaker 1: him can I post it? But he sends me some
Speaker 1: stop that I don't want to post, and soon asks
Speaker 1: me what's your sauce? And I can't get the sauce,
Speaker 1: but they look very very real. He's telling me that
Speaker 1: the US is doing overflights over the Borno side. They
Speaker 1: are taking pictures from Ghana and that they are so
Speaker 1: and so I don't want sae someone last day, he said,
Speaker 1: but it looks like things are happening and there's some
Speaker 1: intel sharing. I hope in the end it will bring
Speaker 1: peace to the country. I think I have suffered too much.
Speaker 1: Destiny has got to stop. So we just pray for
Speaker 1: the government. We pray for the government, the states, the
Speaker 1: local and the federal that they can come together, leave
Speaker 1: the politics and keep Nigerian safe. That's really what we want.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what who you support. There's just gould
Speaker 1: be safety in the country. People have, people are living
Speaker 1: school to go back home I know if you're aware,
Speaker 1: many universitors have been closed down. Now they're asking spending
Speaker 1: North and little bit, asking them to go away from
Speaker 1: coastals and go back home. There's not a strike, just
Speaker 1: close down because of insecurity. We cannot progress as.
Speaker 2: A nation, no way.
Speaker 1: If our kids are not in school, it's not going
Speaker 1: to be possible.
Speaker 2: Loan or no loan.
Speaker 1: They've closed the schools down, go home because insecurity. So
Speaker 1: I've got to fix that. Thank you so much, Colvin.
Speaker 1: I triut you guys for also listening, and I hope
Speaker 1: I see you guys next week. We'll maybe do our final,
Speaker 1: we'll do our space again and then we'll see how
Speaker 1: the next year it will come. You guys, have a
Speaker 1: great day, have a good week. Week is gonna be
Speaker 1: a fantastic Monday. Thank you so much. Have a good
Speaker 1: day guys, and bye.
Speaker 2: M h m hm