WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:09.279 Hey, folks, I'm good evening. Welcome once again to another 2 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:12.839 money space with me carlu Aja. On this space, we're 3 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:16.559 talking money, the economy and of course finance. Want to 4 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:19.879 get those topics important and in front of you so 5 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.039 that way you can become a better investor and of 6 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:25.760 course a better citizen. And this week, guys, we're talking 7 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:31.519 crude oil, NNPC and energy in Nigeria. Right and just 8 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.799 liasier results. There are twenty twenty four results. If you 9 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:39.240 haven't seen it, it looks like a banger about as 10 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:44.560 if four trillion naira in net profits not net profits 11 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:48.479 with media paid all their expenses and we made trillions, 12 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:51.200 which is going to be like most of the might 13 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:55.479 be surprised. And NPC for a long time very opaque. 14 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.439 I wasn't given us returns or results. Now we're getting 15 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:03.240 monthly reports on the output from an NPC, we're getting 16 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.719 monthly reports on oil sales, and we're now getting there 17 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:11.400 annual report. Even though twenty twenty four, which is better, 18 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:12.920 you know, it's better than what we had in the past. 19 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.120 And well, of course please with the with the result 20 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:18.480 that we've seen, so we said to just talk around it. 21 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:22.439 Use that report to just talk really around what NNPC 22 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:25.079 is doing and the oil sets on Nigeria, also to 23 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:30.680 do with the pipelines, the EQK pipelines, Dangletar Refinery, all 24 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:33.079 that kind of stuff. I have a guessed I'm supposed 25 00:01:33.079 --> 00:01:34.640 to be here with us. I'm just gonna wait for 26 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:36.840 him to hop in and then once he does, we 27 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:41.040 can start off the session today and have his expertise 28 00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:43.719 basically guide us this very very technical topic. So we 29 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.200 just want to have someone that is really going to 30 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:48.280 be there with us. So then just make sure I 31 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:52.480 have him here and then we can get going. Yep, Okay, 32 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:57.239 how you guys doing. I hope you guys, I get 33 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.840 ready for the new year. We've had our of fresh 34 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:05.959 education space right for two weeks now. We've done the income, 35 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:09.280 we've done the expenses. Last week we did the the 36 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:13.560 the assets, assets and liabilities, and then next time we're 37 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:15.800 gonna be we're gonna do the asset on locations. So 38 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.080 hanging there, guys, is gonna be a last session we 39 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:21.280 do the asset allocations and then of course we'll randle 40 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.400 that financial health check. My guest is here, he's just 41 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:28.639 gonna log in real quick to be a speaker and 42 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:31.759 then we can have the space up and running. So 43 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:35.800 thanks folks for hanging out here with us and all that. 44 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:39.400 I do appreciate you guys doing that every weekend, seven 45 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:42.639 pm more, second time with me, all right, just waiting 46 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.199 for Kelvin to accept the mic and then we'll get started. 47 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:56.479 There you goes, yeah, just gonna hit the accept Let 48 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:00.520 me stand that again to you and because we're going 49 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.639 to have like a more like a fifteen or twenty 50 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.560 minute chat with Kelvin. If you want to ask a 51 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:08.439 question a little drill request to speak, send me a 52 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.159 dm he since he's speaking, I'll be able to read 53 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:16.039 your dms more this time. Usually when I'm speaking is 54 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:18.400 harder to rer dms and then you keep on talking. 55 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.280 But I think our guess it's here with us. HII Kelvin, 56 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:27.120 Welcome to the space with me. Kelvin, I can hear you, 57 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:29.879 yeah loud and Claire he couldn't do it. 58 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:30.240 Hi. 59 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:35.560 You doing, sir, it's been yeah, yeah, thanks for always 60 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:37.680 being there where. We don't need your expertise. We do 61 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:41.479 have preducting and not taking for granted. I mean we 62 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:44.280 don't do a quick introduction and then we can just 63 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.960 have that conversation of the fastide conversation that we usually have. 64 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:49.599 It. 65 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:54.719 It's gonna be a day right now. 66 00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:59.439 That Yeah, but I have a few hats where you know, 67 00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:07.039 my name is Kelvin. I consult for. 68 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:15.439 The government, the national summary side and the executive side, 69 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:21.319 a few companies in private sector, and the few concerns 70 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:24.920 in business as an entrepreneurs. 71 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:30.879 That that's somewhere gotcha. I mean, we'll take that. We'll 72 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:33.319 take that from you. Kevin will tear from you. So Kevin, 73 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:38.240 Now the backdrop is the four n NPC and our report. 74 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.399 But before we get into that, could you just get 75 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:45.519 an overview. Lots of stuff has happened, new laws happening past. 76 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:48.040 I see the GDPs being world because of COULDE oil. 77 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:48.639 We've got some. 78 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:51.839 Gas headlines that have been very very good. Even though 79 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:54.879 Dan go to side dang whatte wants to increase output? 80 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:57.480 I heard his bringing into the Americans to do that 81 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:00.480 for him. We'll just give us an overview of the 82 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:06.120 milieu of the Nigron energy ecostom. What happened, what should 83 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.800 we put our eyes on? What should we looking out 84 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.079 for in the total ecosystem. 85 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:14.160 As it were? Come A very good question you know. 86 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:22.199 When the president changed the board and management of hopes 87 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:26.839 are very high in the April that this was finally 88 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:28.800 going to be the. 89 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:35.519 Beginning of the new year. I remember somebody who is 90 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:40.040 like a senior. We're having a conversations a countment. 91 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:44.240 This is the final act, this is the last chance 92 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:49.800 that the entity has to actually turn the connor and 93 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:51.720 become the pill in the backbone. 94 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:56.079 But the biggest problem I've seen that NBC. 95 00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:59.920 Has today is the governor's problem. There's a serious governance problem, 96 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:04.800 and that cascades into all the other issues I had. 97 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:10.120 And the governor's problem is that the State House, the 98 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:14.439 State House, the presidential villa as the seat of power, 99 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.519 and all the other people who surrounds the corridors of power, 100 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:22.959 they just do not want to let go of NNPC. 101 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:27.000 And I've said this openly to the government. I've said 102 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:30.480 this in private meetings. I've said this on TV interviews, 103 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.399 I've said this on radio. I've said this to the 104 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:36.480 government directly, that it needs to let go of NNPC. 105 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:40.879 As a matter of fact, this past week I was 106 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:44.000 on Channel CV on lunchim politics and I said it 107 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:46.560 that the presidency needs to let. 108 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:47.279 Go of n NPC. 109 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.480 The only way to save that entity is to let 110 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:58.639 go of it. Let go sending directives and memos nmpcs 111 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:03.600 limited level company, we have no business taking instructions from 112 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:04.000 the villa. 113 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:08.959 It's not that a corporation. It's a limited liability company. 114 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:14.160 The situation where you have membos coming, you know, every 115 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:20.160 week to a limited liability company, it's it's absolved. It's 116 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:25.759 absolved because by organizational structure. If you see the appointment letters, 117 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:27.959 the two appointment letters, because there was only one that 118 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:30.079 was made known to the public that was flying around 119 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.279 on social media, you see that what you're do as 120 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:36.360 the coordinating us of the economy who actually signed. 121 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:40.160 Off on their letters of appointments. 122 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:42.639 He was the one that signed up, which means that 123 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:46.360 a NPCE is supposed to report to a beneficial owner 124 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:50.040 that is the Ministry of Finance Incorporated. And in the 125 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.319 proposed amendments of PI it says that I think sections 126 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:56.240 either sections seven, nine or that six. 127 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:58.639 If I'm not mistaken, it's going to be amended. 128 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:03.879 Mistruct Patrolum corporate type will be collapsed and MOFI will 129 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:07.160 get full one hundred percent control as a beneficial owner 130 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:07.839 of an NPCY. 131 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:10.439 On behalf of the Federal Government of Nigeria. 132 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.879 So for me, I have but a loss at how 133 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.240 you still send memos and give directions and orders to 134 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:23.000 a limited liability company. The board and management are supposed 135 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.480 to report to the shareholder, and the shareholder is a 136 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:26.439 beneficial owner. 137 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:29.000 That's Mofie. Mophi reports to the minister. 138 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:33.600 The minister reports to the shareholders, and the shareholders now 139 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.799 and not just the presidency because the federal government is 140 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:41.399 just one of the shareholders. The federal government of Nigeria 141 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:42.919 is different from the federal governments. 142 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:46.879 A lot of people don't understand the federation Federation. 143 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:50.840 The federation is made up of the federal states and 144 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:56.559 local governments. So the shareholder is not just the presidency. 145 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.399 The presidency represents, you know, the federal government, but you 146 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.759 have the states, you have the local governments. So it's 147 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.799 not the job of the presidency to give orders the 148 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.799 limited library to the company and break that chain of 149 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.159 command in the organizational and governance structure of the entity. 150 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:18.200 That's the biggest challenge that it faces today. 151 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.519 So I mean, that's that's that's the key one there. 152 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:25.080 In terms of like you said, n NPC is still 153 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.559 under the the we've done the pay per change, but 154 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.799 operationally it's still an at m of the quote and 155 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:36.480 quote presidency that that is fantastic. Do you want to 156 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:39.159 turn into the report now? And the last time you 157 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:41.120 were here we talked about the a k K. I'm 158 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:44.320 still wanted their upjects on that. I saw a report 159 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:48.320 in the papers that AKKK had crossed the river and 160 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:50.960 was now sort of like in has now started to 161 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:53.720 move out toward the north. And the annual report I 162 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:57.559 saw n NPC had had Galada, had Cano made a 163 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:00.559 green and all that's any or a take and give 164 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:03.519 us on the pipeline from the south south or go 165 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:04.039 to the law. 166 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:06.039 The pipeline. 167 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:11.159 You know, obit three fits into AKK because obit there 168 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:16.360 is supposed to provide gas goes from the southern side 169 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:19.600 in the those states and then from the eastern side 170 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:26.440 you know river states, Aogo across the River Niger. You know, 171 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:30.279 they did resumed our directional drilling what is called HDD, 172 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.320 and we're able to cross the river Niger. Finally after 173 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:40.159 spending a shiploads of money, the AKK projects that links 174 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:42.600 they will be three down to. 175 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:48.759 Cannon. You know, they're still working on the Cardinal leg 176 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:50.440 I think they're not done yet. 177 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:57.279 Is one of the most expensive pipeline projects I've. 178 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.799 Seen in the world, has four point two million last parkilometer. 179 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:06.720 It's it's double what it costs to even build an 180 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.639 export pipeline. You know, I think last time I was 181 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.679 we're talking about pipeline construction costs, and I mentioned that 182 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:19.279 when Russia was going to build there was a practicship 183 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:23.440 between the Russian government and the Chinese government rose Nefts 184 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:30.720 gas from and SNOC. They built a five thousand kilometer 185 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:35.120 pipe from Russia through Siberia and Mongolia to China to 186 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:40.519 take the expot gas from Russia to China, and they 187 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:45.240 did spend up to half cost pakilometer. What is costing 188 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.240 an NBC to build a k k cost partilomit which 189 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:54.679 which also explains this is about Laber's Calamba costa is absurd. 190 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:59.120 You know, for the longest time Dandurans have been asking 191 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.279 the Minister of Work what is the cost pa kilometer? 192 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.879 I just refuse to reveal what the cost paculum is. 193 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.080 Why why are you afraid or refusing to release what 194 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.000 the cost pacilumter is? If you're sure that you know 195 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:16.200 everything is done through redal. 196 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:19.000 Process at four two million dollars parkilometer. 197 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:24.200 You know, it's the most expensive pipeline project for six 198 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:25.480 hundred fourty kilometers. 199 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:31.879 But is their progress on it though, So we're moving along. 200 00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:34.080 The is going to get this gas. 201 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:38.320 The most difficult part of that was the crossing of 202 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:43.120 the river Niger, which they've done with horizontal directional. Really 203 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:46.399 that's the most difficult part of it. But then you 204 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.320 still need to inject. You still need figures to inject 205 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:51.360 into those pipes and ensure that. 206 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:53.519 There is. 207 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.799 You know, up time for the pipeline and there is 208 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:01.039 high pressure of the pipes. 209 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:02.440 To supply gas. 210 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.919 You know, there's going to be a pressure metery and 211 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:10.559 reduction station Gogalada because n NPC has an I p 212 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:16.919 P which Chinese EPCs that is building an IPP in Goglead. 213 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:19.639 You know, gas and power parts of an MPC wants 214 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:25.519 to go into business. Yeah, yeah, I don't know about 215 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:29.519 midle Gree, you know midle Gree. Yeah, it's in terms 216 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:31.960 of security is just better than what it was when 217 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:35.440 years ago. But I'm still you know, I don't know 218 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:38.600 what the security situation is and how that to affect. 219 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.799 Because you know, brandies keep vander and terrorists, they keep 220 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:45.120 vanalyzing power, power lines. 221 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:48.639 And transmission infrastructure in the Barner States. So I don't 222 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:50.000 know how they're going to manage with that. 223 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.960 But I think the addition of an IPP in Abuja 224 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.840 is really going to beneficial for ADC, you know, and. 225 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.600 Part generation in the city and surrounding areas. 226 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:06.639 And you know, I've always said that the power business 227 00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:08.840 is one business that NNBC has what they call a 228 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.440 comparative advantage with because of. 229 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:18.000 Gas, you know, but it needs to build the pipeline. 230 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:23.279 Infrastructure, you know, and they needs to also be a 231 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:26.519 serious round table because you know, the bonds that the 232 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:32.320 government set up to pay the part generating companies, I 233 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:36.120 think over for trillion NUR they hit an impasse. The 234 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:40.960 government is asking the generation companies to write off nearly 235 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.919 two trillion night of the moneys that were that they 236 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:44.799 claim have been old. 237 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:48.000 You know, the power companies are saying, no, that you're 238 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:48.840 not going to write it off. 239 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.000 It's going to set them back, you know. So thats 240 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.799 it an impass and call. If you look at the 241 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:59.759 power if you look at the power value chain, you know, 242 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:05.639 you see that there are several issues There are several issues, 243 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:11.600 but there's a major issue with pricing for gas, pricing 244 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:19.759 for power, and theft, theft, commercial thefts, technical losses. Right, 245 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:24.159 Nigeria does not have strong legislation and enforcement for people 246 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:29.960 who still power deliberately. Number one, there's issue with technical losses. 247 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:34.480 There's commercial losses which are theft, then there's technical losses. 248 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:38.559 Then there's the issue of pricing for power. 249 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:42.240 You have a situation where for band by two d 250 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.360 in Nigeria, for example, it's about thirty four cents pack 251 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.840 in Roberts. You know, this is a political issues, so 252 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.759 I don't like getting into it because whenever you bring 253 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:53.879 up this issue and you bring up the economics of 254 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.440 it and the reality of the economics of it, people 255 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:58.080 are always very in their feelings. 256 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:01.159 I don't blame Nigerians because the Nigerians. 257 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.600 Are going through the ricer The economy is tough for 258 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.080 a lot of people. A lot of people cannot afford 259 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:10.240 to play house rights. You know, people are struggling to eat, 260 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.480 people are struggling to do basic stuff. So you know, 261 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.240 they have a right to complain about increasing power courts. 262 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:19.240 But the reality on the ground and this is this 263 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.279 is the result of inflation and effects revaluation and how 264 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.279 that has affected the price of power over the last 265 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.960 five to six years. Is that par are thirty to 266 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:34.120 five cents per kilo ads is just not realistic. Whey 267 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:36.960 is realistic? Is anywhere between ten to twelve to fourteen 268 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:42.559 cents parkilo ads? You know, And if you can't price 269 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:51.279 power reasonably, then it means that the generating companies are 270 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:54.480 going to struggle to pay for gas. You know, about 271 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:59.960 nineteen or twenty seven plans today nineteen of about two 272 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:05.920 thirty four plants run on gas, you know, and if 273 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:07.799 they are struggling. 274 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.680 To pay for gas, it also means that the aggregators 275 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:13.000 will not be able to meet up or have. 276 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:19.400 An incentive to invest or sustain you know, maintaining high 277 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.039 pressure on those pipes because you know, gas goes through processes. 278 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.200 For onshore gas, you have to if you're not rejecting 279 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.880 it to do well optimization, you're trapping, you're selling it 280 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.599 to know, to calibrate pressure, you're selling it to central 281 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:41.240 processing facility. You know, you're converting from wet gas, you're treating, 282 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:43.599 and then you're separating those gas and you maintain these 283 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:47.839 pipes or generation and if you look at it under 284 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:50.680 domestic gas delivery obligation sections. 285 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.559 One way of the PI gas is two. 286 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:58.680 Dollars tatisents par and standard keeping fit pipeline transportation because 287 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.119 it's one dollar tatan sense per standard clibic fit. 288 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:02.440 So you're looking at anywhere. 289 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:06.880 Around maybe thirty dollars sixteen cents per standard cubic fit. 290 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:07.799 You know. 291 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:12.640 So these three problems are the major problems for power. Now, 292 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.200 if you come back to the issue about NNPC IVP, 293 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.680 my biggest worry for an NPC going into power, which 294 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.400 is a very good business for them and they. 295 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:25.240 Have comparative advantage with, is how can you manage these. 296 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:32.599 Financial modeling issues and structural issues that the government lacks 297 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.240 a political will to address because it's afraid that if 298 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:38.559 it goes ahead and says that we're. 299 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:42.559 Going to increase the price of power, there's. 300 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.920 Going to be a protest for good reason, because the 301 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:46.680 government has just carry reckless. 302 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.920 By the way, you know, all right, all right, so 303 00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:53.000 let's look that that's a good way to introduce the 304 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.599 whole topic. Let's go into the NNPC report. You know, 305 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.119 as a bit civilian, right, I look at this report. 306 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:02.480 I see net income at five point four trillion David 307 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.839 and four point three trillion any esper Shure twenty seven. 308 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:08.640 This is better than any results I've seen from Nigerian 309 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:13.519 banks with angles cement anyone. You know, natural grass production 310 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:17.240 looks up here, cruder production. This is two two millions 311 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:20.839 a day, although I know it's about one point five 312 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.920 leaders report. I so in terms of output, just as 313 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:27.079 an industry person, what is this report? Give me the good, 314 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.000 the bad, and the you know, the doubtful about this report? 315 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.759 What is good about this an report? What should we hear? 316 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.400 What should we be happy about this? Four are reperformance NPC. 317 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.720 You know, if you look at the coastal sales you 318 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:45.640 you will have a good lave. Yeah, you look at 319 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:46.839 the custom sales. 320 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:51.640 For that's the that's the that's the good one first, 321 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:54.119 because there has something good? 322 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:56.880 Is there? Is there a good one? Is there a 323 00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:57.200 good one? 324 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:00.799 Saying they did that's a billion dollars in sales? And 325 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:05.079 then you did about seventy four percent cost of income? 326 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:09.400 You know, so five point four net income to you? 327 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.720 If I mean I'm pining doubles advocated. If if a 328 00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:15.799 drunk company is doing five point four net, let's just 329 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.759 cash to the John Federation for the five trillion. 330 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:22.640 It's it's colors, it's it's it's insane. 331 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:26.519 It's okay from five trillion five point four percent for 332 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.839 five point four trillion nine especially when you look at 333 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.440 the cost of sales, it doesn't make any sense. And 334 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:35.119 really it doesn't make any sense. It's because and I'll 335 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.400 break down the cost of sales, you know, from the 336 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:39.559 cost of sales. When I break down the cost of sales, 337 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.160 you begin to see all the loopholes and see all 338 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:42.640 the issues. 339 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:44.720 And then I will try to do an X ray 340 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:45.400 of day of. 341 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:48.079 The group, the major areas of the group, and talk 342 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:52.759 about what I've observed, what the holes are, you know, 343 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:59.640 and how I think that this financial statement is just 344 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.799 is like complete window dressing for a very very horrible and. 345 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.119 Bad situation that they have. They deleted this report for. 346 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.279 A long time because I'm aware this report, this a 347 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.400 non financial statement, has been ready since July August, and 348 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.119 it's been delayed until now. 349 00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:18.440 And I don't know why it. 350 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:21.359 Was delayed until now. You know, if you if you 351 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.440 look at flu station expenses CALU flu station expense first 352 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:30.319 of all, in twenty twenty four, I think I'm not 353 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:36.519 exactly sure, but total crudeoily lifted for all for all 354 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:44.640 the operators JV Partners, PSC Partners, JV Partners, Direct Producing 355 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.160 and NPC FTSA to crudely lifted. 356 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.640 Was around five hundred sixty six million barrels. 357 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:55.880 And an MPC says that what it lifted as a 358 00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.480 share of that is turned round two point three million virals, 359 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.319 which means actually be net of royalties and tax oil. 360 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:11.240 That's what it says, Okay, calub The share of an. 361 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:19.240 MPC on a cumulative average basis, if you look at it, 362 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:26.319 is anywhere between around fifty third point six percent growth 363 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:32.920 of royalty and tax oil. So how are you lifting 364 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.359 two around two point thirty million virus from five hundred 365 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:37.359 and six six million. 366 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.039 Viruls of crew. That's the first question I have for 367 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:42.599 them as a first question. 368 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:46.839 So essence in essence you are seeing the lifting is 369 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.599 when I getting the fee income or listening is the 370 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.640 volume is too small? Ultimately very the volume. 371 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:55.599 Needs to be orditaied your general or federation of This 372 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:56.759 is job. This is work. 373 00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.799 This is job of your general feduction to look at 374 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:02.720 it properly, to review all the contracts and not just 375 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:07.559 rely on the accounts for REGI revenue generating agencies or 376 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:10.480 the accounts. Is his job to look at it properly, 377 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:13.960 to do a thorough forensic audit. Look at the calibration 378 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:18.319 of the lacked units, these accountability costly transfer units. Look 379 00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:21.119 at all the flow bitters, flow stations, look at the 380 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.839 wellheads and caliber. I've always said that Nigeria is one 381 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:27.960 of very few countries in the world, not the only, 382 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:30.960 one of very few countries in the world where there 383 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.559 is no hydroacable accounting structure or framework where you can 384 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:37.480 tell how much codel comes to surface on a daily basis, 385 00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:42.920 on a real time basis, like it's KANDAD that shows 386 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.279 you what is happening in real time, not one department 387 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:50.160 or agency of government sending paper reports to the villa 388 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:54.279 after forty eight hours and then the comment said, over 389 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:58.119 today we did one point five two million barrels cross 390 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:01.720 in twenty twenty five. People are preparing to report manually 391 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:04.160 to tell the government and what could came to surface. 392 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:07.319 It's ridiculous. That's the first question. 393 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:10.279 So the question is you ask, is what they are reporting? 394 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:12.279 Is it actually what it is? That's the first question. 395 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.319 If you ask number two, even at what they are 396 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.160 reporting fine sixty six. 397 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.640 Million barrels two hundred and two point three million. 398 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.880 Barrels, which should be net of royalty oil to the 399 00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:26.160 UPRC that goes to the Accomptient General of the Federation. 400 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:28.759 Lets the cost of. 401 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:33.519 The management fee for UPRCY and then that's oil that 402 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:38.480 goes to federating narvenue service. Yeah, is it what actually 403 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.640 is due to the fedration? That's the second question wh 404 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.480 you ask number three calub all crude. 405 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:49.400 Oil that is due to an npc PSC oil JV. 406 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:56.240 Oil direct production oil goes training EMPIACE trading and this 407 00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.359 crude that goes training EMPISCE trading, a commissioner, a fees 408 00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:01.759 charged per for trade minutes, whether it's. 409 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:03.240 Going to dangle t Dangote is paying. 410 00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:06.400 Dangote is paying an average of two dollars perblate bar 411 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:09.680 barrel as a separate fee outside of the cost of 412 00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:12.640 the crude oil on the global markets. And which is 413 00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:14.920 what he has always complained about that how does it 414 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.039 make sense that n MPC is a share role that 415 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.920 in my company you have seven percent if within the 416 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.480 company you're still selling cruders the million dollars. 417 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.640 And attaching his he an extra commission. 418 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:29.920 So emphasis charging itself invariably. 419 00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:32.279 You're charging yourself invariably. 420 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.839 Yeah, and then the crude oil. In fact, in fact, 421 00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:41.599 on this issue this year, the Chief Commission Executive NUPS 422 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:46.480 intervened and asks an emphasis trading to cap the commission 423 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:47.400 it charges. 424 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:51.279 For barrel to fifty cents. They did it for you. Well, 425 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:52.079 then they reverted. 426 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:58.319 So if for example, you're charging an average of two 427 00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:01.680 dollars for barrel for trading the crude oil that belongs 428 00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:05.599 to the federation, it means that on two hundred and 429 00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:09.559 two point five million barrels, you should have ended at 430 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:14.000 least at least four hundred and four million dollars at 431 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:19.960 least in commissions, just commissions alone, just commissions alone. These 432 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.839 commissions are not reported to the Federal Service, by the way, 433 00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:26.240 because in either this is major even if they say 434 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:28.279 they have an office in Metam, but their major operation 435 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:30.039 is in Dubai the DC. 436 00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:33.359 Right, where is the. 437 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:38.920 Commissions end on crude oil traded for the oil that 438 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.519 belongs to the federation. Why are they not paying pacts 439 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:42.480 on that commission? 440 00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:49.319 Less there their expenses to the Nigerian government. The same 441 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:50.200 thing goes for the for. 442 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:54.960 The other companies, the all the IOCs, the independence you 443 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:59.160 know that are listing oil from Nigeria then gooting for example, 444 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:01.000 the same thing. In fact, it's even how if you 445 00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:04.079 look at the cost sheets for the different blends of crude, 446 00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.640 there's evenly a blend of Coude Bunger on Bunger crude. Yeah, 447 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:11.079 it plays about five dollars twenty cents per barrel as 448 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:15.400 commission separate commission, which means that if he's buying one 449 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.480 million barrels of bunger's paying an extra five point two 450 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.599 million dollars as commission as a separate commission. If could 451 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.000 all price sixty five dollars a barrel, he's buying sixty 452 00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:30.000 five dollars a barrel, then he's paid another five dollars 453 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:31.559 twenty cents per barrel. 454 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:38.240 How do you now classify that in your what's it 455 00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:38.880 called your. 456 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:44.480 Crackspread like you imagines as a refiner when you're going 457 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.400 to translate it to pricing in the local markets, how 458 00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:49.880 do you not translate that extra commission into the markets. 459 00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.480 Okay, let me ask a question. Let me ask a question. 460 00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:58.279 Eler this year presenting both said that the c minster 461 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.279 who was it the CBN should take over the revenue 462 00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:04.160 returns from the n NPC that felt like they should 463 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:08.000 report to the CBN. I think it was this year 464 00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:10.680 he said last year. Does that have any beer into 465 00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:11.920 this numbers? We are seen. 466 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:17.720 How many how many people in the Central Bank of Nigeria, 467 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:23.920 you know in hair have the technical depth and knowledge 468 00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:26.720 of the oil and sector and actually have people on 469 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.839 the ground, so they are they are live because they're as. 470 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:33.000 Good as it's what an MPC gives them that they 471 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:33.559 will take. 472 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.000 That day on the ground to see what is going 473 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:39.480 on on the ground. At day on the ground, If 474 00:28:39.559 --> 00:28:42.000 an mp says this is what came to us, that's 475 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:44.240 what they would take. That's why I've always said that 476 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:47.079 the government needs to set up and account the firm 477 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:55.400 and miter and and creates its end to end for 478 00:28:56.119 --> 00:29:01.000 measuring output on a daily basis. Really you don't need 479 00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:04.079 to be sending paper reports. There's a scatter is connected 480 00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:07.519 to you know, computers and you're seeing on a real 481 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:11.079 time basis how much crudel hawmred gas, what is fled, 482 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:14.480 what is trapped, what is rejected? Only a real time business, 483 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.039 you're seeing the penalties because as they're flaring there's a 484 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.359 penalty based on the PIA the gazette that a your 485 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:24.640 PRS has developed from the particular part of the PI 486 00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:28.559 that talks about gas flaring penalties. And you're seeing what 487 00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:31.720 the companies of turtles would pay based on the gas 488 00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:32.240 that they flat. 489 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.319 It's so it goes into your revenue structure automatically. 490 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:38.640 So the question I have for you is. 491 00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:42.279 Does the city and have people on the ground to 492 00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:45.240 actually measure and say this is what they give us 493 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:47.359 in payer reports and this is what is on the 494 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:49.759 ground and the comparison it matches. 495 00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.759 Do they have people on crowd so it's what they 496 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:53.559 give them that they take. 497 00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:59.119 Okay, so you've talked around the report's let's go where 498 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.000 do you want to go to next? Because we skipped 499 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:05.880 to five. I'm reviewing the constant you know, Okay. 500 00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:08.319 Because you know, because you know you say, say they 501 00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:11.000 do for the five trillion, for five six trillion. 502 00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.319 Gross profitable twelve point something trillion, then. 503 00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:18.559 The dimlet of five point four, and we have things 504 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:23.039 like flull station expenses. You know, I wouldn't want to 505 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.880 start going and breaking down all the things line items 506 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.000 are goes into managing fuel stations, you know, but one 507 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:32.920 point seven billion dollars as flull station expenses two. 508 00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:36.279 Point five trillion in the coating dollars one point one 509 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:37.440 point billion dollars. 510 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:40.079 What do you have here as full station experences is 511 00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.920 two point five trillion There for three hundred and sixty 512 00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:45.440 five callent, that is for managing one hundred eighty seven 513 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.440 full stations. And not all of them are I SIS. 514 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:50.519 Not all of them are in SIS one of that 515 00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:52.559 it's seven flu stations. What you have here is two 516 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:54.200 point five three and which which is the equipalent of 517 00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.279 one point seven billion dollars on two hundred and two. 518 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:04.759 Million barons of code. Okay, I just want to have 519 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:06.680 you have direct well expenses. 520 00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:08.440 Now, let me explain. 521 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:16.119 Direct well expenses are expenses on producing wales from Wales 522 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.559 that NMPC goes on represents that it has FTSS on 523 00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:23.599 because NMPC has a company does not have the capacity 524 00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:27.240 right now to drill crude and trap gas by itself, 525 00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:31.359 so it goes through contracts and brings in companies through 526 00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:35.359 what they called Financial and Technical Service Agreement ftss YEP 527 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.160 those direct will expenses. 528 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:40.720 N MPC said that in twenty. 529 00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:43.960 Twenty five, twenty four it spent two point five trillion. 530 00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:51.200 Nine on direct well expenses. That's another one seven billion dollars. 531 00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:54.440 Do you know what it was before? So we can 532 00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:56.960 have a context to the numbers, like if it's one 533 00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.559 point one billion dollars and the world doing maybe two hundred, 534 00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:00.640 then we know it is high. 535 00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:04.279 We don't have to look at what it was before. 536 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.359 What we have to look at is how many blocks 537 00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:11.880 do they have? Does any p L from my MPDC 538 00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:16.839 has direct control of that they are classifying direct well 539 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.799 expenses on yes, And then we go to the technical 540 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:23.640 engineering site and say these are. 541 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:32.599 Planning items for you know, managing wells real time. You 542 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:36.240 know this is a benchmark for other places. 543 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:38.079 You know, the terrains are different, so it's not going 544 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:40.920 to be the same because of producing in Nigeria or 545 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:42.559 managing the weld in Nigeria is not going to be 546 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:44.720 the same. But because of managing the well in Guyana 547 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:48.200 or in Texas, they're different. Nigeria is moical terrain. But 548 00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:51.319 even at that, you know, if you do benchmarking, you 549 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.839 can almost always tell if this costs are reasonable or not. 550 00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:58.359 How much crew that you produce it. Any pl is 551 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:00.839 not doing more than fifty. 552 00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:01.599 Thousand barrels a day. 553 00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:03.400 So are you saying that you spent the more for 554 00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:07.319 seven billion dollars on wales that are opposing more than 555 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:08.920 tow hundred fifty thousand barrals a day? 556 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:10.440 Does it make sense? Gotcha? 557 00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:13.160 So the volume is down, but the cost of managing 558 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.599 those wells is up or staying up. No less the 559 00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:16.759 cost is up. 560 00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:18.759 You could could. 561 00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.039 Handling and pop charges. They said they spent one billion 562 00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:26.880 dollars on crude handling. The handling of coude and judges 563 00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:31.400 are pots. If you do a breakdown, you your time 564 00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:33.759 will not permit us. So or you know, these these 565 00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:37.960 days are very technical. These numbers does doesn't make any sense. 566 00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:43.519 It just doesn't make any sense because they are they 567 00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:47.000 are benchmarks. There are other companies around the world doing 568 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:49.440 the same business and empth is doing and they have benchmarks. 569 00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:53.519 So when you look at that cost of sale, you 570 00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:57.240 can almost always say, okay, like why are you people 571 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:01.160 even coming about these numbers extat or those Are. 572 00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:04.920 They actually doing it for audit or they're just following 573 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:08.199 you know what you give to them. What's the job 574 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:08.840 of an auditor? 575 00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:15.480 Gotcha? Okay, So I have a question, John when I 576 00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:18.079 don't know when to ask. It's about the investment of 577 00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:19.960 an NPC, but I let you continue. But I want 578 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.239 to come back to an NPC investment and refineries if 579 00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:26.519 you may, but I'll let you finish. We've talked about 580 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.440 I look at pipp cost. 581 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.280 Oh five you know. 582 00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.760 I you know because I look at the cost of sales. 583 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.360 It's high for me. But I'm not an industry guy. 584 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:46.159 I saw what I just picked entertainment. The entertainment cost 585 00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:48.920 is more than the cost for host community. That's one 586 00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:52.599 thing that I saw that I er point five billion 587 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:58.119 a month. Look at it's more than it's more the 588 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.960 host community fund. Yeah, I saw that, and I was like, 589 00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:03.599 doesn't look too right. I mean, whose community where you 590 00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:06.400 get your money? Even if you want to build a school, 591 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:08.679 it should not intimationally be more than that. 592 00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:11.559 But that's just me. I'm not upr as. 593 00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:15.440 The Obstume Regulator has not done a lot in opationalizing 594 00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:17.679 the whose community Development trusts. 595 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:20.760 They've not done a lot in doing opationalizing it. 596 00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:23.880 What should they do? The law basically says they pay 597 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:26.159 to a fund, correct, then the fund that the host 598 00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:28.800 community then sort of invest in the fund. 599 00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:33.440 Right, there's there's a corporate governance process protocol that is 600 00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:37.360 stated out by law that the communities was fullw So 601 00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:39.679 to be fair to NPR, I would say I also 602 00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:40.440 say some of. 603 00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:41.840 The communities are difficult. 604 00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:45.239 That's if we're meeting up. 605 00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:50.079 Dens and conditions of getting those funds in finite to them. 606 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:53.800 But as irregulator is their job on a daily basis 607 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:55.480 to ensure. 608 00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.639 That there's compliance and there's. 609 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:03.559 Coordination is their job, okay, Because if you don't. 610 00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:08.119 Drives com meeting them with the comporate governance protocol required 611 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.440 to have their city funds paid, the money is will 612 00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:13.639 pick with the operators, gotcha? 613 00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:17.440 So essentially they they have to send the money to 614 00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:20.480 the fund and then sort of push the host community 615 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.960 to serve the whole corporate governments where they have a 616 00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:26.079 board and then start to invest this money. Is are 617 00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:29.599 just lying down with the international oil companies and an NPC. 618 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:33.480 I'm not sure how many host community funds are operational. 619 00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:36.239 I know if you are. I'm not sure how many 620 00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:38.960 are or who regulates them to say it? Can they 621 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:42.760 be an annual report that reports on all these host communities. 622 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:45.480 I don't know who is in charge per se and 623 00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:49.840 in child. Okay, so perhaps they should then do an 624 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:54.000 annual report and say we have so and so funds licensed, 625 00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:56.760 so so and so are operational, so so and so 626 00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:59.440 have done and no reports so people have a sense. 627 00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:02.760 Many people on the space, I'm sure belong to community 628 00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:06.000 that have host community funds of funds, but they don't 629 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.480 even know what's going on. So that sort of report, 630 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:10.960 if it's out, can be highlighted, can be you know, 631 00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.440 put out on social media and books and then sort 632 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.960 of picking and seeing what is happening with their own community. 633 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:20.039 I know lots of people would be interested in that 634 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:20.840 sort of report. 635 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:25.440 Yeah, they said they paid gas player penalties of one 636 00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:26.559 point third trillion. 637 00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:29.719 Dollar in there. 638 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:34.159 So the gas player penalties goes to the obstream reglata 639 00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.400 in pairson, So is the job of the General Federation 640 00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:42.840 to check with an u PARC and confirm that and 641 00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:47.039 then paid one point thirty trillion and gas player and 642 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:50.119 permit the penalties. Then PRC through the Office of the 643 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:54.480 Camperal Federation. That's the job of the Auditor General to 644 00:37:54.599 --> 00:38:02.599 confirm then the preciation of a gas properties over time. 645 00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:06.440 They said that took three point two trillion. 646 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:12.800 Nine But I'm just saying trillions. Let me ask you 647 00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:14.639 a question, so as asked me now and this is 648 00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:17.760 this is germane the five point four Where does it 649 00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:18.079 go to? 650 00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:22.800 The five point four is supposed to you know, net 651 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:25.519 profit is supposed to be paid to the show that 652 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:30.920 that is the federal government of Nigeria. The question is 653 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:34.639 for the accountent general operation has been paid, that's the question. 654 00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:37.480 But if it's paid, it goes to the states. 655 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:42.280 They remember instead three point two trillion and profit they 656 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:44.320 defrad it for what the government was doing. 657 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.599 The remember, Yeah, we're coming to that, Kevin. That's the 658 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.639 next topic. Are coming to. Like this question is so 659 00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.320 that five point four, if it is paid, it goes 660 00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:57.920 to FARK. It's supposed to go to fac Okay, okay, 661 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.840 supposed to go to fac Okay, Kevin, Let's come to 662 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:03.639 this question. Is there a subsidy is still being paid? 663 00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:07.519 If you read the report, there's something there's seven points 664 00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:11.880 one trillion or so, it's not it's not the security 665 00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:18.719 pipe and it's to say it's energy something energy. Let 666 00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:21.159 me get it out to read the exactly I read it. 667 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.320 I tweeted it, but I want you to explain to 668 00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:25.760 me what it means if I understand what they're saying, 669 00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:29.960 they are saying that when you import crude oil into Nigeria, 670 00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:35.519 then they assume who is import Okay, but let me, lady, 671 00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:44.480 let me lead the framework for focused Okay, so armful 672 00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:46.320 to follow over saying sorry, then we can go. So 673 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:49.880 essentially this is called energy. I think it's let me 674 00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.519 get the exactly energy Energyesy could the expense? 675 00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:53.880 Okay. 676 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:57.239 So what they're saying is that when they import crude oil, 677 00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:00.800 they assume a price, maybe if you dollars a barrel, 678 00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:03.880 but when the crude oil or the PMS or whatever 679 00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.320 it is important, it's then so to the off taker 680 00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:12.239 it assumes a different price. The difference between the import 681 00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:16.960 price and the price assumed by the off taker is 682 00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:22.880 this seven point one, No, eight point six trillion eight 683 00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:24.880 point six So please. 684 00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:28.480 Explain that to us. Please, there's nothing like that. There's 685 00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.159 n NBC is not important crude oils. They don't have 686 00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:36.360 a need import crudoid. The competity that has been importing 687 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.920 crude oil and has been important up to. 688 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:42.199 I would say he's been putting up to eight to 689 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:43.119 nine million. 690 00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:47.480 Barrels of crude in the last year is Dangute fifty 691 00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:50.920 of the crude oil imports into Nigeria and he uses 692 00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:56.559 finder is important into Nigeria, okay, and he spends about 693 00:40:56.840 --> 00:41:01.480 maybe ninety ten million dollars in handling costs and then 694 00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:04.880 fees to MP, the Master and the likes on a 695 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:09.119 monthly basis. So NNPC has no need to crude. The 696 00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:14.119 Vendor Financing Program was terminated late last year because the 697 00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:15.239 government collapsed. 698 00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:17.639 The markets had. 699 00:41:17.559 --> 00:41:21.280 Decided to you know, activate sections two five of the 700 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:25.320 PI on prising PMS according to market forces supply and demand, 701 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:28.679 which was the removal of on the recovery or removal 702 00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:30.960 of subsidies like people know right. 703 00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:33.960 NMPSC says that the profit. 704 00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:36.960 From two in three was not basic the government because 705 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.960 they used it to defray what was owed to them 706 00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:44.199 from Vendor Financing Program and the STP So what differential. 707 00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:45.440 Are they talking about? So what is this thing? 708 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:46.880 Then it's in the report? 709 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:48.480 Is eight to you? 710 00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:51.599 Let me explain it to you, calum, Let me explain 711 00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:51.880 it to you. 712 00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.480 Three hundred and twelve thousand barrels of crude on a 713 00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:59.599 daily basis in the daily crude allocation goes does not 714 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:02.559 go to the federation. It's supposed to be the subsidy 715 00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:06.519 servis and A've said this. You know, I'm not afraid 716 00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:07.079 of anybody. 717 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.639 I fear God. I'm not afraid of anybody. I'm not 718 00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:12.480 afraid of anybody. I fear God, but I'm not afraid 719 00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:17.519 of anybody. Let's where we don't have institutional integrity is Nigeria. 720 00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:19.360 We don't know how to tell ourselves the truths and 721 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:21.119 that's why Nigeria is not moving. 722 00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:22.440 Forward because we don't like the truth. 723 00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:25.760 Three hundred and twelve thousand barrels of crude on. 724 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.239 A daily basis in the crude allocation does not go 725 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.159 to the federation account that is supposed to be a 726 00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:32.920 subsidy savings. So where's it going to? This is a 727 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:34.440 question you have to ask the government. 728 00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:37.800 Because this was this talk. 729 00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.199 Out of the phone round for five thousand barrels of 730 00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:44.920 crude interventional stock that they were using for under recovery 731 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:46.039 payment on subsidy. 732 00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:50.400 Yeah, that is not being saved. So where is it 733 00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:54.079 being saved to? Why is it not going to be constantly. 734 00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:53.920 They revenue from? 735 00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:54.239 Why? 736 00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:58.079 So where's the money is the question you have to 737 00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:01.320 act the government. Is this eight point six trillion? 738 00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:01.800 Why? 739 00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:03.880 Why are you paying the one hundred and ten thousand 740 00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.599 barrels of cool daily to militaris for pipeline security. 741 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.440 Why no, is that what that is? 742 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:13.440 For sixty there's a seven point one trillion for part 743 00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:15.480 and it's a bit compute. Let me let me share 744 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:15.960 with them. 745 00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:21.559 In twenty twenty four, that's pipeline security fee was seventy. 746 00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.280 Eight thousand, one hundred sixty nine barrels day. 747 00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:26.199 Twenty twenty five has been in crystals one hundred and 748 00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:27.239 ten thousand barrauls day. 749 00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:30.280 So the question is when you have the navy, you 750 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:37.400 have the DSS, you have then NSCDC, you have the army. 751 00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:39.320 You know you have the efforts. 752 00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:42.000 Why are militaris collecting one hundred and ten thousand virus 753 00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:43.079 of good day for pipe. 754 00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:44.639 Person seven point one Australion. 755 00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.599 So this is a question you have to ask because 756 00:43:49.719 --> 00:43:52.320 NMPC is not important CREUS. So there's nothing like export 757 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:56.000 differential and import differential and price that comes to price. 758 00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:57.159 That you give to There's nothing like that. 759 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:00.960 So what is the g security? 760 00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:01.920 What is it? 761 00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:03.159 It's in the annual report. 762 00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:05.519 I'm giving you pointer as to it. I'm not making 763 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:06.199 any inference. 764 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:09.360 I'm giving you pointers and I'm allowing you and everyone 765 00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:11.360 who is listening this evening to make a conclusion. 766 00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:15.199 Why are you giving crude oil to million times with 767 00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:17.360 pipeline security? Why? 768 00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:26.000 Hmm, So there's this s So let me just see 769 00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:28.440 what I what I'm hearing you saying. We had this 770 00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:31.159 subsidy arrengement before where we took this one hundred thousand 771 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.039 barrels and that was our on the recovery payment. Now 772 00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:36.840 we have stopped subsidy, but that's one hundred thousand or 773 00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:39.639 so barrels have still not gone back to fuck? Am 774 00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:40.159 I correct? 775 00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:42.119 So far it is not gone back to fuck? 776 00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:45.639 Okay? Then in the annual report back hasn't gone back that? 777 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:45.920 Why? 778 00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:47.880 Now, that's why the government is running through the concurreent 779 00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:49.440 projects and Billy. 780 00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:52.480 Has up to fifteen percent of his proposed Kate pegs 781 00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:53.199 from the project. 782 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.719 Interesting, okay, so that's that's number one. It hasn't gone 783 00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:00.880 back to fac Number two, there's a pipe lying payment 784 00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:04.440 numbers perits and energy security whatever payment is in the 785 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:09.679 annal report, the pipeline payment. And it's a bit confusing 786 00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:13.639 because I see seven point one, I see eight point six. 787 00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:16.719 Are they saying that the pipeline thing is the energy 788 00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:21.599 security or it's It's not very clear to me as 789 00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:25.000 just looking at you as a numbers guy, I'm really 790 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:27.440 not show what they were saying. The numbers were correct, 791 00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:30.400 but the interpretation is why I didn't really understand what 792 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:33.480 they were saying. I understand it's a subsidy because of 793 00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:36.199 the language they are using. They're saying it is to 794 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:39.440 cover the difference between this and this. I get that, 795 00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:42.079 But you're now saying that that subject hasn't gone back 796 00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:44.440 to park and you are saying there's no subsidy. 797 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:45.199 So what is this? 798 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:46.880 I mean, it's in the annal report. 799 00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:47.639 What is it? 800 00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:50.480 They're signed to say something. That's why they put it there. 801 00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:58.360 You see, this is why we don't have a cultural 802 00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:01.599 thoracic or this in Nigiera. We don't have a culture 803 00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:04.159 of forensic audits because if you bring a forensic auditor, 804 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:04.639 you have to. 805 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:06.840 Provide every day and explain. 806 00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:11.320 Okay, you know every items you have in your AFS, 807 00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:15.000 all right, if I'm. 808 00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.760 Giving you pointers and pointers, okay, where where is going to? 809 00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:19.320 Okay? 810 00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.079 Ken, Let's also go to the other part of the 811 00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:25.199 front loaded income that the government has done, the financings, 812 00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:28.000 the Ego, the Leopads and all that. They are all there. 813 00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:32.800 In essence we have sold oil in advance and then 814 00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:36.119 we so we're paying them crude oil. But with created 815 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:40.119 money today. What's the impact of impact of that? What 816 00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:43.559 happens if oil prices go down to say fifty five 817 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:46.840 or fifty what happens? I mean there are many of them. 818 00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:53.079 If you reports project Leopad, Project EGO, Project this and 819 00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:55.039 their front loaded incomes. What happens? 820 00:46:56.840 --> 00:46:59.079 So in this. 821 00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:03.960 Forced the agreements some of val you don't forking billion dollars. 822 00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:05.559 There's not a lot of five billion dollars in the 823 00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:13.760 pipeline away that when a hundred one hundred thousand dollars 824 00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:16.159 of crew is going to pledge, I don't want to 825 00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:22.159 give more details on it, but if that comes true, 826 00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:26.440 it means that you know, some of the forced agreements, 827 00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:32.360 payments are maturity are expiring, rounding them off, and nums 828 00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.239 are going to pick up. It means that more crew 829 00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:39.119 will being cumbat. You can't apply, you know, domestically final 830 00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:44.039 with the cruder that it needs there is there isn't 831 00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:50.599 going to be much space room for you to actually 832 00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:56.639 you know, pay dividends to your shareholder. 833 00:47:57.800 --> 00:47:58.519 That's what it means. 834 00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:01.400 Well, why would it be a for dividends. It's still 835 00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:05.239 a sale. It's still a sale, but the money has 836 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:06.199 been taken today. 837 00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:07.440 No, you know that. 838 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:10.400 What I'm saying is if you do for cel agreements 839 00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:16.239 and you you know, give the cruder to a trader, 840 00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:18.400 that meant to the banks that. 841 00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:21.960 You're owing money for the for the period of the loan. 842 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:26.360 It means that that dividend doesn't come to the government. 843 00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:31.199 Let's the management fee, I say, then he charges, but on. 844 00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:35.280 The price of crude and the risk of you know, 845 00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.920 we had the situation some months ago where crew prize 846 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:41.719 drops below sixty dollars, came to about fifty four fifty 847 00:48:42.039 --> 00:48:47.039 five pulling back up because of israelservation of Gaza and 848 00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:50.000 a round. We had a stitution of months ago, and 849 00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:50.960 what happened was. 850 00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:53.639 I saw. 851 00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:58.920 Sheets of about seventy two million barrels of cruder that 852 00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:02.239 was stuck that we are located to be lifted, but 853 00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:05.960 the companies refuse to lift the crew because for some 854 00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:10.400 of the crude, the price of the crude have dropped below. 855 00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:12.519 The strike price. So typically when you start. 856 00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:15.760 For as with agreement, there's always a strike price at 857 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:23.519 which you dh against risk. So if you say X, 858 00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:28.559 Y and Z bank is lending thirty billion dollars to 859 00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:31.000 a busy corporation. 860 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:37.760 In Nigeria, they will want to pin a price and 861 00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:44.280 say that below this price, I will not take the crew. 862 00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:45.960 If I take the crew, you have to provide more 863 00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:50.639 crude to match up the prevalence of that price, that 864 00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:59.559 that traget level, that strike level. Above this price, I 865 00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:03.960 will take the crew or the different shout and between 866 00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:05.440 the strike price. 867 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:08.880 Okay, let me be more practical. If the strike price 868 00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:11.039 is fifty seven dollars or fifty six dollars. 869 00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:16.440 If the price of crude drops below fifty six, they 870 00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:18.280 will not take the crude. It will be held at 871 00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:21.920 what they call the come. If they take the crud, 872 00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:23.960 we have to give them more barrels to match up. 873 00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:26.000 The fifty six. Right. 874 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.000 If the prize of courses above fifty six, that different 875 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:32.719 shot between the strike price fifty six and whatever the 876 00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:34.800 prize of crude is, say the prize of crew sixty 877 00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:38.960 five or seventy, it will go into a death sevice 878 00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:42.679 reserve account operated by the borrower. 879 00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:46.280 So on. 880 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:49.159 For stele agreements, well, one of the questions have always asked. 881 00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:53.360 For example, on project As, a strike prize was anywhere 882 00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:56.599 between fifty seven and fifty nine dollars a barrel. Crudinal 883 00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:59.880 prizes were steadily above that level for the longest time. 884 00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:02.639 What did the government do with the differential between the 885 00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:05.599 strike price and the current market price open market creates. 886 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:09.679 They had also the services of account that was set 887 00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:10.440 up with the barnas. 888 00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:11.960 What did the government do with those money? 889 00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:16.119 Why was it the National Assembly placed the copy? Why 890 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:18.639 when those money is appropriated. 891 00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:22.599 By National Service? Unknown to the principle of suspere Because. 892 00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:27.639 Because it's revenue right in essense just upon a standard 893 00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:30.840 then just says that any revenue you get has to 894 00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:35.079 go to farcident is shared by appropriation by National Assembly. 895 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:40.400 Mister Buhari and mister Tinerbo have dodged this by doing 896 00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:45.400 they basically go and create a fund, then pay a 897 00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:50.239 dividend or a fund into that fund, then spend from 898 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:54.159 that fund without going to appropriations. Bid with the presidential 899 00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:57.920 p idea of potential some something development fund where he 900 00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:02.039 took n n PC this dividends or whatever he put 901 00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:05.360 the dividends from an n l LG. The gas company 902 00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:09.360 into that fund, then use that phone because National Assembly 903 00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:12.800 would not authorize borrowings. That's where his whole princess they 904 00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:15.800 are from. He took the dividends, putting the fund and 905 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:18.880 spent with the appropriations. Mister Tinebook has consumed the same 906 00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:22.880 practice by creating a fund, putting revenues in that fund 907 00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:25.880 and then spending. That's what you're describing because you don't 908 00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:26.920 have to do National Assembly. 909 00:52:27.039 --> 00:52:31.679 Okay, exactly. So it's like an excess crood account. The 910 00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:34.840 only difference is that this express cool account does not 911 00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:38.719 have Sydney trees. The think God knows no seccares to it. Okay, 912 00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:44.639 you know, like an excess fool account. However, now they 913 00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:47.840 set up these accounts. They have a fancy there for it, 914 00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:52.159 dead service reserve account there. Sorry, and it's always off show. 915 00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:54.400 So your guess is as good as mine. 916 00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:56.559 Okay, Kevin, Let's go to page I don't if you 917 00:52:56.599 --> 00:52:58.800 look at they go to page ninety nine. You see 918 00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:00.719 this loan to subsidy area. I don't know if you 919 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:01.159 can see that. 920 00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:01.639 Just shaowed. 921 00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:03.360 If you want to follow I just say it on Twitter. 922 00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:11.159 We see loans to loans to n NPC Energy Service 923 00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:14.639 limited and serve. We're giving it an energy and serve 924 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:17.960 one seventy four is that that would be a billion? 925 00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:21.559 But we're getting this money from n n P C 926 00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:24.960 E P N E p L. We're getting one O 927 00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:28.719 four from ny P L and then from the wheel. Okay, 928 00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:31.679 so what is n n PC Energy Service and Serve 929 00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:36.639 is according to a report here above us here and 930 00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:37.360 serve let. 931 00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:45.039 Men, page ninety nine, page nice nine. 932 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:57.440 I don't understand what what I'm reading? Just yeah, yeah, 933 00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:01.079 just and I showed them on the space on my feet, 934 00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:02.559 guys gets on the fall. I've shared the tail on 935 00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:05.840 the spacey from the follow as well. Just understand, doesn't 936 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:10.760 it doesn't make that much sense to me? You see it? 937 00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:17.559 So you know n Service is the same entity that. 938 00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:23.679 Is in charge in charge of disposing from the business explorations. 939 00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:26.360 Okay, but let me ask you my question. So if 940 00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:28.519 you look this this this table is called loan to 941 00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:33.320 a subsidiary. So you see we're borrowing one hundreds we're 942 00:54:33.559 --> 00:54:36.800 borrowing money from n n PC, E and P E 943 00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.000 and P are going to n n PC. If you 944 00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:44.519 look at bob E n P is sales here you too, sales. 945 00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:46.880 I don't know where I laugh it sales of crude 946 00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:51.960 and back charge of expenses. So n n PC e 947 00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:56.599 and p hear me again, sales of crude and back 948 00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:01.280 charge of expenses. But we're lending it to NPC Energy Serve. 949 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:02.239 What is n serve? 950 00:55:02.360 --> 00:55:06.239 Let me mean what end service back charge of expenses. 951 00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:10.519 So you are borrowing from back choror of expenses and 952 00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.599 you are led in to back chor of expenses. Doesn't 953 00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:14.159 make sense to me. 954 00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:20.039 Explain something, you know. One of the reasons why companies 955 00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:22.480 have boards is they come up with. 956 00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:26.519 You know, not just a strategic direction, but they come 957 00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:29.639 up with rules the management must play by. 958 00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:33.480 Yes, that's why you have both committees. Correct. Yeah? 959 00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:38.480 Hm, I think up until Musaki that came the Musaki 960 00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:42.840 that is beenworking and doing some some good work as 961 00:55:42.880 --> 00:55:48.000 the chairman of the board setting on board committees, the 962 00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:50.280 management didn't have rules to play by. 963 00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.639 Okay, So end Service. 964 00:55:53.719 --> 00:55:58.000 The arm of the group responsible for this bosting Frontier 965 00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:02.280 Basic Exploration front I remember from their basin. According to 966 00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:06.880 the PI has a share of profit oil and gas 967 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:10.400 that goes into development of six different from their business 968 00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:20.159 in Nigeria that will be basing lower penutral you have 969 00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:24.679 upper Pernutral which is the core money basin. 970 00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:25.840 You have. 971 00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:32.880 The basin around the whole core. Yes, you have the 972 00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:34.719 chat basin. You have the Socoto basin. 973 00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:43.360 Six business. Now the you have three different business that 974 00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:44.280 Melod focused on. 975 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:47.679 You have the core money, you have the chat business, 976 00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:51.519 lower chat basins, in jury, local government and barn the states. 977 00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:58.159 And it does I've forgotten the name. Now, then you 978 00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:01.000 have the basin the one and nas how the hay. 979 00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:05.119 So if any PO say that they're luning money to. 980 00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:10.159 Service and anomally because based on the PIA, a section 981 00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:13.400 of profit orlandas goes into the frontier business exploration firm 982 00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:17.079 and that fromdly supposed to have billions of dollars in it. 983 00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:22.199 But what that backchat means is that any PR is 984 00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:29.039 saying they did some exploration and production activities right on 985 00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:35.000 those frontier business and that there there's a back. 986 00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:40.039 Charge from that. Okay, but what why is it business 987 00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:41.199 exploration front. 988 00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:45.079 Okay, So you're saying that the n n PC Energy, 989 00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:48.159 So the guys that give them the money is n 990 00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:49.719 n p C E and P. 991 00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:52.800 Limited Exploration and production limited. 992 00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:57.239 So so the guys in billion are lending money to 993 00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:01.519 the n n PC and n serve kind of You 994 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:02.039 know why I. 995 00:58:02.360 --> 00:58:04.480 Talked about the board when I was starting, I started 996 00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:08.119 answering your question. I talked about the board and board 997 00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:10.960 certain rules of management because I wanted you to know 998 00:58:11.119 --> 00:58:14.960 that it's an anormally for any peer to be lending 999 00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:19.440 money to n considering that base on the PI a 1000 00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:23.079 percentage of profit oil and gers already goes to front 1001 00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:24.599 their business exploration. 1002 00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:25.960 For that NCEPT manages. 1003 00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:29.039 So it's an anormally because NST is supposed to be liquid. 1004 00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:34.039 M hm. So any peer lending money to answer this 1005 00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:36.159 non normally mhmm. 1006 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:44.199 So both I'm following the drift. I do, but again, 1007 00:58:44.239 --> 00:58:45.159 and I'm talking about. 1008 00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:48.280 Money to n. 1009 00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:54.800 Because NCEFNCET brought in contractors, it paid money to do 1010 00:58:56.239 --> 00:59:02.760 what they call exploratory drilling on those business the basic 1011 00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:07.320 injury local government, the basin between Bouchier and Gone with 1012 00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:09.079 money to the basin. 1013 00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:13.519 They brought in consultants, sorry, companies to do drilling. 1014 00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:21.599 So where is any PO back charging. And just to 1015 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:24.880 be clear, there's no report doesn't say that NSF gets 1016 00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:29.079 money to E m P, but it's given money to 1017 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:32.519 n n PC and NPCE is giving money to NCF. 1018 00:59:32.639 --> 00:59:35.320 So it's like E and P give money to n 1019 00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:38.280 n PC, then n n PC gets money to energy 1020 00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:40.679 set to NCEF. So to me, it's just a long 1021 00:59:41.559 --> 00:59:43.679 it's the wrong. I don't know what's going on there. 1022 00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:44.719 Doesn't make sense to me. 1023 00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:48.239 It doesn't make any sense normally because based on the PI. 1024 00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:50.519 If you read the PI, it will say that a 1025 00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:55.280 percentage of profit oil and gas goes into frontier business 1026 00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:57.400 explosion for the development. 1027 00:59:56.920 --> 00:59:58.519 Of six business in Nigeria. 1028 01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:07.159 Okay, so that was up to BASY the only Basy 1029 01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:15.039 and lower chat busy if it's up to six okay, interesting, Okay, 1030 01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:17.320 So let me ask the second question. You're on this page, 1031 01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:19.840 same page we have the Wheel Insurance. Now, I get 1032 01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:22.920 that's a simple transaction. The Wheel give any PC money 1033 01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:26.440 to to they borrow money from it from the Wheel 1034 01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:28.719 to invest in. I think it's one of those IPPs. 1035 01:00:28.760 --> 01:00:32.239 I think it's one of the budget the Wheel Insurance Company. 1036 01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:37.519 They borrowed money from the broad forty eight million from 1037 01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:40.920 the Wheel Insurance Limited. Why why are they borrowed when 1038 01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:45.960 they have four point five trillion nets five point four nets? 1039 01:00:46.119 --> 01:00:50.079 Why are they Why are they borrowing? The sorry investing 1040 01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:53.000 I don't know. I saw it somewhere. I can go 1041 01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:55.679 and look for it. But the Wheel Insurance Limited is 1042 01:00:56.519 --> 01:00:59.320 there as they give a loan to it. They're borrowing 1043 01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:01.800 money from them forty eight billion. 1044 01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:10.679 It's this is this is my point again on both committees. 1045 01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:16.599 If you have both audit committees, I'm both risk committees, 1046 01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:20.280 all of these issues will not happen because there will 1047 01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:22.480 be governors, proper. 1048 01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:28.199 Governors that will guide management. What you're explaining to me 1049 01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:32.280 a normal list that should not be should not be 1050 01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:37.440 evident in the group different subsidiaries. I'm not. 1051 01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:42.440 And we're here listed as a subsidiary. You know it 1052 01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:46.199 says loans to subsidiaries listed here. 1053 01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:48.679 Why why why do you have? 1054 01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:53.880 Why is Annus setting up pernassurance company? That's the first question. 1055 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.039 Why do you setting up pernassurance company? I'm trying to 1056 01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:59.519 find exactly what they do. I know I've ready I forget. 1057 01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:04.480 Why is an NPC setting up an insurance company? Explain 1058 01:02:04.519 --> 01:02:10.400 the business case to me. You're the expert because because 1059 01:02:10.599 --> 01:02:13.960 the government is not supposed to approve his license to 1060 01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:19.239 set up an insurance company, and NBC is the custodian 1061 01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:22.480 of Nigeria's oil and as asset and the concession. Yeah, 1062 01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:27.199 why are you setting up a subsidiary insurance company to 1063 01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:31.320 do what? I don't know insurance companies in Nigeria. 1064 01:02:33.679 --> 01:02:37.400 I'm going to find the exact the transaction. I know 1065 01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:41.199 they will funded something, but my question for that is 1066 01:02:41.360 --> 01:02:44.920 just why they are borrowing when they have all this 1067 01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:50.320 quote unquote p and L profit after tax. Maybe that cash, 1068 01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:53.199 no profit is not cash. I get that, but I'm 1069 01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:55.960 just saying that they can gerate all this profit. Why 1070 01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:59.239 are they're borrowing? Just just a question that maybe that 1071 01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:02.039 would maybe they will say, oh, I'm going to the pie. 1072 01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:05.159 They can't. Maybe that's what answered the game, but I 1073 01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:06.079 don't see it. 1074 01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:07.199 So let me come to my. 1075 01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:12.559 The NFBC does not have any business as all right, 1076 01:03:13.239 --> 01:03:15.320 I'm just I'm just asking. I'm just asking you. So 1077 01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:17.519 I get up and folks are gonna ask to speak, 1078 01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:19.360 and I'm just waiting for you for a while. Last question, 1079 01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:22.280 if I letting them you speak, Last question, sir, Page 1080 01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:27.760 ninety two. The total value of all the front loaded investments, 1081 01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:31.079 the front loaded sales is about four point nine trill 1082 01:03:31.239 --> 01:03:34.920 just just call it five trillion, five trillions. If you 1083 01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:40.639 take Project Falcon, Panther leopard yield Bython. 1084 01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:42.400 This is as at. 1085 01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:45.920 Twenty twenty three, mind you as a twenty twenty three. Well, 1086 01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:50.800 I'm gonna page ninety two. It's about four point nine trillions, 1087 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:53.440 just a nice five trill as at twenty twenty three. 1088 01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:56.039 But I haven't added anything that was done from twenty 1089 01:03:56.039 --> 01:04:01.719 twenty three. This has a cost. Is it conceivable that 1090 01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:07.320 this four point nine trillion if it is a contract liability? 1091 01:04:07.639 --> 01:04:10.239 What's the impact of this four point nine trillion with 1092 01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:12.159 the profit that they have made? The four point nine 1093 01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:15.920 they have made because this is the this is loans 1094 01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:18.280 I think they've gotten from these guys. Right when I 1095 01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:20.920 say Project Facon they took they took money from them, right, 1096 01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:24.719 That's what it means. Like for instance, Project Leopad, they 1097 01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:28.679 took one point two trillion from Bletlyopad, and that's revenue 1098 01:04:28.679 --> 01:04:30.840 that they have reached from politic Leopad. They took money 1099 01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:33.880 from them front loaded. They're going to sell crude oil 1100 01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:37.239 then could oil goes to Leopad in quote, then Leopod 1101 01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:39.760 will pay the bank then pay back and NP see 1102 01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:42.920 the difference between what they have taken today and what 1103 01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:45.840 the cud oil is sold in future. That's what's happening, right, 1104 01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:48.400 So you know. 1105 01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:51.440 When you when you structure for agreements, what I've seen 1106 01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:54.800 so far is that and ither structure for seal agreement 1107 01:04:55.039 --> 01:05:02.000 which a trading company okay shout trading commodity trader number one, 1108 01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:04.960 or you can have cool syndicates. 1109 01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:09.239 So you have a bank do syndication with a trader. 1110 01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:10.519 So for example, we. 1111 01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:14.159 Do a focil agreement of two billion dollars, the bank 1112 01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:17.760 is collecting one billion, trader is collecting five hundred million, 1113 01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:23.320 another one is collected five hundred million, or the bank 1114 01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:26.920 is collecting everything. So in situations where the bank is 1115 01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:31.320 the only syndicate, what you have is their point a 1116 01:05:31.519 --> 01:05:36.519 trader as a collector. Right, they take the crew, they 1117 01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:39.559 sell the crew, they remit the money less. You know 1118 01:05:39.639 --> 01:05:42.360 what I explain about strike price and different strike price 1119 01:05:42.400 --> 01:05:45.840 and open market rates, and you know they have their 1120 01:05:46.960 --> 01:05:47.159 you know. 1121 01:05:47.239 --> 01:05:52.039 Management fees and handling fees in that regards. 1122 01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:58.679 So in these loans from what i've sym, typically you know, 1123 01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:00.960 London a bank of fad rates. 1124 01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:04.559 Typically for frontier markets anywhere around six percent. 1125 01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:09.519 Ban on So Nindria has a country's premium that had 1126 01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:13.400 in prising these loans when they're doing book building anywhere 1127 01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:16.760 around thirty four percent sometimes is higher. Were around thirty 1128 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:20.159 four percent because the credit rating has improved, which is 1129 01:06:20.239 --> 01:06:24.079 now b the stable outlook mojsis firms gone from C 1130 01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:29.159 one to bitter. And then you have facilitation fees, which 1131 01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:32.760 is strange because I've not seen facilitation fees of anywhere 1132 01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:33.880 between two to four percent. 1133 01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:37.559 Facilitation fee now is going up to four percent, which 1134 01:06:37.559 --> 01:06:38.480 doesn't make any sense. 1135 01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:44.400 So you have anywhere around twelve to fourteen percent pano 1136 01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:49.599 calum twelve to fourteen percent. 1137 01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:53.920 That's the interest that's paid on this on this CROUTE 1138 01:06:54.079 --> 01:06:54.920 twelve percent. 1139 01:06:56.320 --> 01:07:01.639 Yes, project as well was around nine point no project 1140 01:07:01.639 --> 01:07:03.960 as there was eleven point eighty five percent. When you 1141 01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:08.000 add the secure DI Finance and Financial rate or libel, 1142 01:07:08.599 --> 01:07:10.400 you had the country's premium, and then you. 1143 01:07:10.440 --> 01:07:12.840 Add the fascitation fees, it came to eleven P eight 1144 01:07:13.239 --> 01:07:18.280 eight five percent. So CRP has so free was like 1145 01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:19.519 nine point five. 1146 01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:22.639 Between nine and nine point five, the facilitation fee was 1147 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:24.840 about two point thirty percent or so. 1148 01:07:25.679 --> 01:07:26.840 That goes to consultants. 1149 01:07:29.599 --> 01:07:33.960 The consultants and animally the reason why the consultants are 1150 01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:37.320 a normally because in the book building process there are 1151 01:07:38.159 --> 01:07:41.360 fixed commissions that are supposed to be paid one of. 1152 01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:47.039 Right fixed commissions. 1153 01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:49.639 But situation where you have people who will embed themselves 1154 01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:55.119 as consultants, you know, and they layered themselves into the 1155 01:07:55.320 --> 01:07:57.280 ending fees. 1156 01:07:57.559 --> 01:08:02.119 For the length of duration that facility, then you know that. 1157 01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:07.119 You have an Okay, well said, I'm going to come 1158 01:08:07.159 --> 01:08:08.639 back to you on this because if you look at it, 1159 01:08:08.800 --> 01:08:10.920 I want to get folks to speak and know Nandi 1160 01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:13.280 and your mentor and also didn't want to speak, So 1161 01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:14.800 I'm gonna get him to ask you questions. 1162 01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:15.760 But I just have it if a. 1163 01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:18.119 Final question for you, but don't answer s just we'll 1164 01:08:18.199 --> 01:08:21.520 take the folks. There's a page that that answers our question, 1165 01:08:22.039 --> 01:08:27.000 Section twenty eight Restricted funds. That's on page eighty one. 1166 01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:31.119 It does say about one point three trillion has been 1167 01:08:31.239 --> 01:08:37.039 restricted as external funding, and external funding represents the cash 1168 01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:42.359 balances restricted for funding contractual obligion. Which is a question. 1169 01:08:42.399 --> 01:08:46.560 I was asking that we're making five point four trillion profit, 1170 01:08:47.239 --> 01:08:50.279 but it's not really cash because that is profit based 1171 01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:53.560 on sales. But the cash has not come to Nagia 1172 01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:58.279 because one point three trillion in cash has been set 1173 01:08:58.439 --> 01:09:03.520 aside to cover this contractual agreement we've had, which explains 1174 01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:06.880 why we are borrowing from will or we're borrowing from 1175 01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:10.239 equity and giving to any There's no cash in the system. 1176 01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:15.359 There's profits, but no cash. Namdi, Hi, how are you doing? 1177 01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:18.319 Thanks for holding on so long with Kevin speaking to us. 1178 01:09:18.880 --> 01:09:23.520 You have a question for Kevin? Kevin, No, no worries, Kevin. 1179 01:09:23.560 --> 01:09:24.640 Thank you so much. Kelvin. 1180 01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:29.800 Good to be on a platform with you. Good evening, 1181 01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:33.079 and I appreciate both of yours insights. So first of all, 1182 01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:35.239 granted I haven't. 1183 01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:37.239 Looked at the details in terms of the balance sheet 1184 01:09:37.279 --> 01:09:40.039 in the P and R of this recent release, it's 1185 01:09:40.119 --> 01:09:42.960 clear that this is atrocious as far as the MPC 1186 01:09:43.119 --> 01:09:43.680 is concerned. 1187 01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:46.920 It's clear that abnormal season. 1188 01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:51.640 And anomalies within this financial and it's even atrocious the 1189 01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:54.399 fact that we're having to wait almost an entire year 1190 01:09:54.520 --> 01:09:57.000 to actually get the end of the year results, et cetera, 1191 01:09:57.079 --> 01:09:59.520 assuming that the physical year ends in December, which I 1192 01:09:59.560 --> 01:09:59.880 believe it. 1193 01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:07.119 The other thing, and Kelvin, keep you honestly here, because. 1194 01:10:07.640 --> 01:10:11.840 In addition to these porous results, the other thing that 1195 01:10:11.960 --> 01:10:16.800 we're getting wind of is apparently according to some kind 1196 01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:19.520 of senate investigation I think never won Goes spoke to it. 1197 01:10:19.640 --> 01:10:22.720 There are some missing accounts from an NPC up to 1198 01:10:22.800 --> 01:10:24.600 the tune of you know, in the hundreds of billions 1199 01:10:24.640 --> 01:10:25.359 even trillions. 1200 01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:27.319 So once to get your perspective on that. 1201 01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:31.119 Then the second thing is that there's anutdotal rulers that 1202 01:10:31.319 --> 01:10:34.960 we're potentially looking to sell interest joint venture interest that 1203 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:37.319 we have so liquid dating certain positions that we have 1204 01:10:38.039 --> 01:10:39.720 in oil blocks and joint ventures. 1205 01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:42.399 Once to get your perspective on that. 1206 01:10:42.680 --> 01:10:46.479 But the third thing that I have, which is not 1207 01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:50.239 a technical question or even a financial question, is that Kelvin, 1208 01:10:50.279 --> 01:10:52.600 you mentioned that governance is the issue as far as 1209 01:10:52.760 --> 01:10:55.479 NMPC is concerned. But you know, there's nothing in these 1210 01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:58.680 results and nothing associated with NNPC that we haven't learned 1211 01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:02.239 for the last forty years, which is that NMPC has 1212 01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:05.720 been an informal piggybank for various administrations and presidents in 1213 01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:10.479 Nigeria and the preponderance of our national wealth continues to 1214 01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:14.159 be drained. And this is happening in the face of 1215 01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:19.840 what is patent state failure in Nigeria today. And so 1216 01:11:20.319 --> 01:11:26.399 we have seen that subs all governments have lacked the capacity. 1217 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:28.239 Nor willingness to fix this issue. 1218 01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:34.000 And the only other key stakeholder that can possibly intervene 1219 01:11:34.199 --> 01:11:37.479 is us in civil society, which is, we need a 1220 01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:39.680 people driven mechanism. 1221 01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:44.000 To enforce enforce accountability and transparency of an MPC. 1222 01:11:44.760 --> 01:11:48.000 And I've reached out to each of you and said, hey, 1223 01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:51.439 here's a mechanism that I'm proposing. What do you think 1224 01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:53.520 about that? Because this is the only way that we 1225 01:11:53.560 --> 01:11:56.119 can stop this hemorrhaging. And the reason why this is 1226 01:11:56.239 --> 01:11:58.880 important is that, in my research and my analysis and 1227 01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:01.920 my writings, I believe that Nigeria is three to five 1228 01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:04.279 years away from complete state failure, which is that the 1229 01:12:04.359 --> 01:12:05.560 center will not hold. 1230 01:12:05.439 --> 01:12:08.199 And will have anarchy in that country. And that's what's 1231 01:12:08.199 --> 01:12:08.920 happening today. 1232 01:12:09.520 --> 01:12:13.439 And we can no longer trust on any institution, whether 1233 01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:17.640 it's political, religious, traditional, ETCeteras do it. It's us in 1234 01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:20.479 civil society, me, you, and the people on discord that 1235 01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:22.000 have to go and do that, and we have to 1236 01:12:22.079 --> 01:12:26.720 build the mechanisms to do that. And the reason why 1237 01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:29.439 this is a sailin point is that you know, when 1238 01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:33.600 Nigeria falls, it's not going to be because of these 1239 01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:37.319 actors in a n NPC or the political class, et cetera. 1240 01:12:37.399 --> 01:12:39.520 It's going to be because of me, you the people 1241 01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:40.840 on this score who. 1242 01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:45.920 Either were too intellectual, intellectually lazy, or uncourageous enough to 1243 01:12:46.119 --> 01:12:49.600 mount a counter strategy, right, And I believe that we 1244 01:12:49.680 --> 01:12:52.199 can actually mount a councer strategy, and that counter strategy 1245 01:12:52.239 --> 01:12:56.479 is that we need to start going after specific people like, 1246 01:12:56.520 --> 01:12:57.119 for instance, in the. 1247 01:12:57.239 --> 01:13:01.720 NNPC example, the management team go beyond. 1248 01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:05.079 Your typical judicial process and all that nonsense. 1249 01:13:05.119 --> 01:13:07.640 But we in civil society have related powers that we 1250 01:13:07.720 --> 01:13:10.159 can use to go after them. One example before I 1251 01:13:10.239 --> 01:13:13.000 get off, is that you know Paulinoso grown Quo, who 1252 01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:15.640 is was a general manager at NPC. 1253 01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:18.239 He was accosted by the FBI because. 1254 01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:20.399 He took money from eight Dogs, which is a subsidiary 1255 01:13:20.520 --> 01:13:23.399 of Sinopec. I think two point one billion dollars that 1256 01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:27.880 he was wandering in California buying real estate and they 1257 01:13:27.960 --> 01:13:31.199 got him. We can absolutely do the same thing with 1258 01:13:31.359 --> 01:13:33.640 so many of these managers at NMPC because a lot 1259 01:13:33.680 --> 01:13:35.439 of them are dual citizens in other countries. 1260 01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:37.520 So even if we can't get them in the Nigerian context, 1261 01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:38.600 we get them externally. 1262 01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:41.560 So where do you stand on this in terms of 1263 01:13:41.640 --> 01:13:46.479 a civilian, civil society driven approach to managing this issue, 1264 01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:48.479 because we're all dying from this. 1265 01:13:48.920 --> 01:13:52.399 Okay, yeah, just for Kevin ascent. So just to be clear, 1266 01:13:52.720 --> 01:13:56.560 it's not when that's keb and that's your opinion, right, 1267 01:13:56.880 --> 01:13:58.920 it's not a guarantee. Nager's gonna figure. I don't want 1268 01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:00.680 to make sure that I get that out there. You 1269 01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:03.039 made a comment and said when feels no, that's not 1270 01:14:03.640 --> 01:14:07.680 it's not giving anything can happen. But Kevin, go ahead, sir, 1271 01:14:07.880 --> 01:14:09.800 And I mean he has some two questions at the 1272 01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:12.560 very bed top, which are oil related. They talk about 1273 01:14:12.680 --> 01:14:15.319 the missing billions and if you're going to take that 1274 01:14:15.560 --> 01:14:17.560 and as well, that was a big, fantastic sir. 1275 01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:24.039 Please please don't don't mind me. Can you come back 1276 01:14:24.279 --> 01:14:28.640 and remind me. The first question was about the money. 1277 01:14:28.760 --> 01:14:31.960 Is that what that are missing? 1278 01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:37.439 Then he said sales. He said sale off some JVS, 1279 01:14:37.880 --> 01:14:38.760 the JB sales. 1280 01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:44.039 Okay, on that. On the missing moneys, I think you 1281 01:14:44.119 --> 01:14:45.159 have to go back to our. 1282 01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:49.520 Document that crewe. I want to speak because I have 1283 01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:53.960 some information confidence. I don't want to brent to the public. 1284 01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:57.640 I don't think I'm the right person to the details 1285 01:14:57.680 --> 01:15:01.479 are to senive, to be honest with you, but there's 1286 01:15:01.520 --> 01:15:04.199 a history of undocument that could the Niger there is 1287 01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:06.560 a history. I think there's a presential committee and could 1288 01:15:06.600 --> 01:15:10.800 recovery at National Economic Council that is in charge of that. 1289 01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:15.039 They are working on it, but I can't speak to it. 1290 01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:21.239 I'm sorry for now. What the National Assembly has. 1291 01:15:21.159 --> 01:15:24.439 Been improving, I don't know if it relates to the 1292 01:15:24.520 --> 01:15:29.039 undocument that could, history of undocument that could and the 1293 01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:35.760 fact that certificate of quantities that were issued by National 1294 01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:42.079 Printing and Meeting Corporation issues around certicate of quantities. I 1295 01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:45.680 won't speak much on it. Then, on the selling down 1296 01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:49.000 of JVS, I think it's a bad decision. I don't 1297 01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:51.279 think the solutions sell down the JVS. 1298 01:15:52.760 --> 01:15:58.479 I think the path forward is for you to. 1299 01:15:58.520 --> 01:16:01.359 Solve first the governor's issue as a governance issue. But 1300 01:16:01.600 --> 01:16:05.560 as I started to turn, I hope on disabling the 1301 01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:11.119 State House practically breaks the protocol and by at least 1302 01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:14.600 the corporate governance structured has been certain place. And if 1303 01:16:14.640 --> 01:16:18.680 you don't fix that governance issue, you can't fix anything else. 1304 01:16:19.439 --> 01:16:21.880 You know, settling down the GVS is not going. 1305 01:16:21.760 --> 01:16:25.000 To amount And I think they are just people around 1306 01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:27.920 the corridors of power, mister President that are interested in 1307 01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:32.920 cashion in on it for trying to pressure to see 1308 01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:35.880 that they sell jvs and they use t the companies 1309 01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:38.520 of bidans interests. I don't think it's for the good 1310 01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:41.880 or interest of any busy for the jervis so I 1311 01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:43.640 don't think National oppose it. 1312 01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:46.119 But Kell then just to play doubles advocating why not. 1313 01:16:46.359 --> 01:16:48.560 I mean we need cash, not just cash, we need 1314 01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:51.640 dollar cash. We have these assets here, why can't we 1315 01:16:51.760 --> 01:16:55.119 sell them to invest in the coastal roads, railways? Help? 1316 01:16:55.239 --> 01:16:57.279 Why can I see this question? 1317 01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:00.960 So? Could you know? I? I said, yeah, I said 1318 01:17:01.039 --> 01:17:04.560 that the Minister of Works. 1319 01:17:05.319 --> 01:17:07.159 It took him having. 1320 01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:13.119 An online and on TV battle with Sating of our 1321 01:17:13.319 --> 01:17:17.239 CV for him to finally come out and grogingly admit 1322 01:17:17.680 --> 01:17:21.560 that this is the post cost. Is there a system 1323 01:17:21.800 --> 01:17:27.960 to first of all, or that the cost pakilter is 1324 01:17:29.079 --> 01:17:32.039 if you put it on the benchmark, it checks out, 1325 01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:36.439 considering that it's concrete rud Is there a system to 1326 01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:40.920 audit what is allocated to ten billion dollars that are locating? 1327 01:17:41.079 --> 01:17:44.520 No, there is no, There is none. But if if 1328 01:17:44.600 --> 01:17:47.159 there was, is the issue if the government came with 1329 01:17:47.199 --> 01:17:49.359 the firmwork and said we're gonna sell JB, it's going 1330 01:17:49.399 --> 01:17:51.720 to go to a pt F type phone, it's going 1331 01:17:51.800 --> 01:17:53.680 to be a ring fence, it's going to be audited, 1332 01:17:53.680 --> 01:17:56.359 and it's gonna go towards projects. Would you be agreeable 1333 01:17:56.399 --> 01:17:59.680 to that sort of arrangement, Calum. 1334 01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:05.920 You know, I think one of the most consequential funds 1335 01:18:06.039 --> 01:18:08.319 that most of the funds that have been well managed 1336 01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:12.079 not they don't good job so far, and was what 1337 01:18:12.279 --> 01:18:19.880 the Lucia Gua Ganga Shamsudinusman former finance minister and Gazio 1338 01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:22.399 conjury well set up the Sovereign Wealth Fund and it 1339 01:18:22.560 --> 01:18:25.960 was the kickback. The Governor's kicked back because it didn't 1340 01:18:25.960 --> 01:18:29.439 want the easy to be collapsed into even if it 1341 01:18:29.560 --> 01:18:30.479 was not fully collapsed. 1342 01:18:30.520 --> 01:18:32.960 But like the revenues are community easy, they wanted to 1343 01:18:33.079 --> 01:18:33.800 share the money. 1344 01:18:34.439 --> 01:18:38.239 But the sovereign well funders so far well even if 1345 01:18:38.279 --> 01:18:41.920 I think that, for example, in the reorganization of an 1346 01:18:42.039 --> 01:18:46.359 NPC shelf and NPC should be given to the Sovereign 1347 01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:47.079 Well Fund. 1348 01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:50.279 You know that's that's what oppains and you know. 1349 01:18:50.359 --> 01:18:53.039 Saudi Arabia and the Public Investment Fund in Saudi Arabia 1350 01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:56.399 was sixteen percent of our article, and they get dividends 1351 01:18:56.479 --> 01:18:58.680 of edwork the two over fifty billion dollars on a 1352 01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:03.359 yearly basis to the public Investment Fund, you know, because 1353 01:19:03.359 --> 01:19:06.359 I don't believe that any dividend, however smaller, that is 1354 01:19:06.439 --> 01:19:09.720 paid to the show that should be spent fully and 1355 01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:12.560 totally in every financial year. 1356 01:19:12.640 --> 01:19:17.800 So the solution is not to sell down the GVS. 1357 01:19:17.960 --> 01:19:22.119 Solution is to focus on governors and reorganize the entity 1358 01:19:22.880 --> 01:19:26.880 to optimize the assets and you know, bringing more dividends 1359 01:19:26.920 --> 01:19:27.479 and taxes. 1360 01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:31.800 So Kelvin, if I may, then what about a civilian approach, 1361 01:19:31.840 --> 01:19:34.680 because I think it's clear that the government needle not long. 1362 01:19:36.039 --> 01:19:38.720 You know, I don't. I don't. 1363 01:19:39.520 --> 01:19:42.960 Unfortunately, I don't support some of the suggestions that you've proposed. 1364 01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:49.560 I am a believer that there are civil ways to 1365 01:19:49.640 --> 01:19:53.800 handle issues, and I believe that the justice system should 1366 01:19:53.800 --> 01:19:54.359 take its course. 1367 01:19:56.079 --> 01:19:56.279 You know. 1368 01:19:56.439 --> 01:19:58.640 I think this is this year, so should keep on 1369 01:19:58.800 --> 01:20:01.960 shining light on this is use you know, I keep 1370 01:20:02.000 --> 01:20:03.159 on exposing. 1371 01:20:02.760 --> 01:20:06.840 These issues and work with law enforcements, you know. 1372 01:20:07.239 --> 01:20:09.560 But I also think that at the end of the day, 1373 01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:16.760 expect the people in these entities their human. 1374 01:20:16.560 --> 01:20:19.600 Beings just like you and I, and whatever the frailties are, 1375 01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:22.119 is important to give them their dignity as humanlanes. I 1376 01:20:22.199 --> 01:20:25.199 respect them and allow the system to do his work. 1377 01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:26.680 That that's what I believe. 1378 01:20:28.520 --> 01:20:33.880 Okay, okay, let's get who's mental your mentor? I think 1379 01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:36.479 you've been next to thanks naming your mentor. You have 1380 01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:41.479 a question for Kevin, he's dropped off your mental as back. 1381 01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:49.800 But let's get ox Lay tech Oxley tech. What's the 1382 01:20:49.880 --> 01:20:53.199 tech going on? Yea, go ahead, yeah, go ahead. 1383 01:20:54.159 --> 01:21:13.119 Okay, yeah, Now what in downlow? When an N not 1384 01:21:13.239 --> 01:21:16.000 an N N N B D and then that would 1385 01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:18.079 be but you know when when they're going to finally. 1386 01:21:22.000 --> 01:21:24.680 Ken, did you hear him? He's asking when when you 1387 01:21:24.760 --> 01:21:27.319 think they're going to go public you self equity to 1388 01:21:27.399 --> 01:21:36.720 manajined investors? Do you have any any insight to that? Kevin? 1389 01:21:36.760 --> 01:21:38.319 I can't hear if you're speaking, just so you. 1390 01:21:38.680 --> 01:21:41.079 Can you hear me? Now? I can hear you? Now? Yes? 1391 01:21:42.279 --> 01:21:42.880 Can you just come? 1392 01:21:43.800 --> 01:21:46.760 He's asking when do you have any insights or when 1393 01:21:46.840 --> 01:21:49.359 an n PC and Dangote are going to offer their 1394 01:21:49.399 --> 01:21:51.359 shares for for subscription? 1395 01:21:52.760 --> 01:21:56.079 Well, I I understand that Dangote is going to come 1396 01:21:57.399 --> 01:22:00.520 next year. I don't know which would go. If the 1397 01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:03.199 fertilizer would go before the refinement, the refiner will. 1398 01:22:03.039 --> 01:22:04.000 Go before the fertilizer. 1399 01:22:04.800 --> 01:22:07.720 I think the fertilizer will go first because you know, 1400 01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:15.000 Dangote just signed the partnership with them Onnwell to come 1401 01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:19.239 in and supervise the process, the busy process for the 1402 01:22:19.359 --> 01:22:23.600 expansion from six hundred and fifty thousand barols to one 1403 01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:26.880 point form million barrels and build a second train and 1404 01:22:27.039 --> 01:22:28.800 I will make it the largest refiner in the world, 1405 01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:31.520 ahead of reliances refiner in India. 1406 01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:36.039 So I think fertilizer go before the refinery because they might. 1407 01:22:36.039 --> 01:22:40.920 Want to, you know, build the second train and expand 1408 01:22:41.079 --> 01:22:45.560 the capacity first before it goes off an IPO, so 1409 01:22:47.159 --> 01:22:49.359 that I can say that in seven you see an 1410 01:22:49.399 --> 01:22:52.720 IPO from Dangote, but fertilizer that go first, because fertilizer 1411 01:22:53.319 --> 01:22:57.039 is a separate business from the refinery, even if they. 1412 01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:00.800 Exchange fit stock, you know. 1413 01:23:02.279 --> 01:23:05.439 So yeah, yeah, Kevin, question for you just in terms 1414 01:23:05.479 --> 01:23:08.760 of the business case for the refinery and the petrochemical 1415 01:23:08.880 --> 01:23:11.760 and the refinery step and the petric colon company. You know, 1416 01:23:12.239 --> 01:23:16.439 the Petri color company is already exporting to America to Brazil. 1417 01:23:17.279 --> 01:23:19.399 If I came to you and I had a million eira, 1418 01:23:19.880 --> 01:23:23.000 I mean, which do you think has a there's no 1419 01:23:23.119 --> 01:23:26.439 word in better, but which has a better business case 1420 01:23:26.520 --> 01:23:30.239 the petrochemical side of the refinery side, Which do you 1421 01:23:30.399 --> 01:23:34.159 think over the next twenty five years is going to 1422 01:23:34.239 --> 01:23:39.039 provide more return on investments for an investor? Which one 1423 01:23:39.159 --> 01:23:39.720 in your view? 1424 01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:44.439 So I can tell you that. 1425 01:23:46.039 --> 01:23:50.199 Dannetic currently has a three million tons and store capacity 1426 01:23:50.239 --> 01:23:55.439 for fertilizer intensive resist of nine million tons. And of 1427 01:23:55.560 --> 01:24:01.960 course you know the fertilizer business is also with all 1428 01:24:02.039 --> 01:24:07.399 the other regional businesses, is going to build fertilizer. In fact, 1429 01:24:07.439 --> 01:24:13.279 there's the EPC for the Dangote fertilizer plant in Goodey 1430 01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:17.039 in Ethiopia in two point five million pounds by or 1431 01:24:17.079 --> 01:24:19.399 ten million tons from Normans takes two point five million 1432 01:24:19.479 --> 01:24:24.399 pounds is started in the city of Godey in Ethiopia. 1433 01:24:25.600 --> 01:24:29.760 So Ethiopia started producing gas in their border closest to 1434 01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:33.800 Bali region. The Chinese are doing the mp for the 1435 01:24:33.880 --> 01:24:38.960 Ethiopian government and GDO Group is going to take the 1436 01:24:39.079 --> 01:24:43.119 crude from the drilling there and then the associated gas 1437 01:24:43.279 --> 01:24:46.399 They giving too Dangote to produce fertilizer, you know, and 1438 01:24:46.760 --> 01:24:51.640 in Ethopia has a huge, huge agricultural business. Ethiopia is 1439 01:24:51.680 --> 01:24:54.199 now the largest grow up within the entire content of Africa, 1440 01:24:54.600 --> 01:24:55.439 the largest grower. 1441 01:24:56.159 --> 01:24:56.760 As a matter of. 1442 01:24:56.880 --> 01:24:59.640 Fact, the President the Prime Minister of Ethiopia said in 1443 01:24:59.720 --> 01:25:05.000 twenty twenty five they've planted forty eight billion seeds in 1444 01:25:05.079 --> 01:25:08.439 twenty twenty five, forty eight billion seeds in twenty twenty five. 1445 01:25:09.279 --> 01:25:15.319 So the regional fertilizer businesses of Dangote are warehoused in 1446 01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:18.800 the group. The fertilizer business as a group, just like 1447 01:25:19.039 --> 01:25:22.279 Dangote currently, I think it does about fifty two million 1448 01:25:22.359 --> 01:25:24.800 tons of cement if I'm not mistaken, around the continent, 1449 01:25:25.560 --> 01:25:29.920 and all of that cement operations are warehoused in the group, 1450 01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:30.880 you know. 1451 01:25:32.399 --> 01:25:35.560 So I don't mean I'm not the banker. So I 1452 01:25:35.600 --> 01:25:38.039 don't know how this is going to structure. If the 1453 01:25:38.119 --> 01:25:40.279 fertilizer business in Ethiopia. 1454 01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:45.359 And the other places where there's going to be fertilizer. 1455 01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:47.239 Plants around the continent are going to be warehoused in 1456 01:25:47.359 --> 01:25:49.560 the group. And if when you do an IPO. 1457 01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:56.000 In Nigeria and whatever revenues that comes to the regional 1458 01:25:56.279 --> 01:25:59.319 fertilizer pressures around the continent are going to be warehoused 1459 01:25:59.479 --> 01:26:01.279 in the as an entity. 1460 01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:04.479 You know, I'm going to report to the group, you know. 1461 01:26:05.159 --> 01:26:08.199 But I think the fertilizer business is very, very big, 1462 01:26:09.640 --> 01:26:09.840 you know. 1463 01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:15.199 I think there's a plan to grow the fertilizer business 1464 01:26:15.239 --> 01:26:18.760 about twenty million tons around the continent within the next 1465 01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:19.760 five to seven years. 1466 01:26:21.159 --> 01:26:23.840 But however, when you look at the refinery, you know, 1467 01:26:23.920 --> 01:26:24.880 you Finiti is the kick. 1468 01:26:25.600 --> 01:26:27.279 Finari is a kick because if you go to one 1469 01:26:27.279 --> 01:26:30.359 point four million and barrals per day, you're going to 1470 01:26:30.399 --> 01:26:33.079 be doing anywhere around one hundred and thirty to five 1471 01:26:34.319 --> 01:26:38.279 million liters of PMS on a daily business. And you're 1472 01:26:38.319 --> 01:26:42.600 going to be doing just nearly a hundred million liters 1473 01:26:42.640 --> 01:26:47.600 of diesel. You know, that dwarfs any any oppressions around 1474 01:26:47.640 --> 01:26:47.920 the world. 1475 01:26:48.159 --> 01:26:50.439 Anywhere in the world, you're going to be doing. 1476 01:26:52.439 --> 01:26:54.960 You're going to be doing anywhere around sixty million liters 1477 01:26:55.039 --> 01:26:59.600 of vivational field jet A one, you know, and then 1478 01:26:59.640 --> 01:27:04.680 you have other derivatives. You have non transportation feels like, 1479 01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:08.680 you know, the Dangote has one of the most sophisticated 1480 01:27:08.800 --> 01:27:10.239 sulfur recovery units. 1481 01:27:09.960 --> 01:27:10.359 In the world. 1482 01:27:10.439 --> 01:27:15.079 So you know, when you when you refine crude into 1483 01:27:15.159 --> 01:27:18.520 NAFTA and then you're distilled with the area. You know, 1484 01:27:18.760 --> 01:27:23.039 in the refinery you produce sulfur because crude oil has sulfur. 1485 01:27:23.720 --> 01:27:26.560 Even in Nigerian crude has the lower software in the world, 1486 01:27:27.359 --> 01:27:30.039 you know as zerop and WULL five percide compared to 1487 01:27:30.119 --> 01:27:33.640 the sulfurs crude from other places that has up to 1488 01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:38.119 THIRTUBO zero and thirty zerup five percides. The software recovery 1489 01:27:38.199 --> 01:27:43.079 unity ensures that the sulfur is recovered and then that 1490 01:27:43.359 --> 01:27:46.359 software that is recovered is now created into what the 1491 01:27:46.399 --> 01:27:47.439 cost of fauric acid. 1492 01:27:47.680 --> 01:27:51.960 That is also a derivative for manufacturing. You know. 1493 01:27:52.239 --> 01:27:55.199 Then you have tense like petrochemical phystog that is used 1494 01:27:55.239 --> 01:28:01.439 for polliating in polyvinal pully, propellan crystals, plastics and all 1495 01:28:01.479 --> 01:28:05.760 of that stuff. Quite in a long list of manufacturing 1496 01:28:05.800 --> 01:28:09.920 and piece for B to B. Then you have residual 1497 01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:12.880 few oils that you can put in the vacuum stallation 1498 01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:14.600 in the processing to base oil. 1499 01:28:15.520 --> 01:28:20.880 You know. So the value chain is very complex and 1500 01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:21.439 it's huge. 1501 01:28:22.720 --> 01:28:26.560 So just final question so to hair, Yeah, the head 1502 01:28:26.600 --> 01:28:27.119 to head. 1503 01:28:27.279 --> 01:28:28.359 The refinery business. 1504 01:28:29.199 --> 01:28:30.680 You know, in the long run, you know it's going 1505 01:28:30.720 --> 01:28:34.279 to give you more value than fertilizer. But fertilizer is 1506 01:28:34.399 --> 01:28:37.279 just as big because one metric tunel fertilizer traits between 1507 01:28:37.920 --> 01:28:40.279 thirty seven to four hundred dollars for metric turn and 1508 01:28:40.399 --> 01:28:44.039 there's a huge amound for you, you know around the world. 1509 01:28:44.399 --> 01:28:47.119 Okay, just just full up questions, right, it doesn't matter 1510 01:28:47.279 --> 01:28:49.640 if he's going to import all his crude, Well, will 1511 01:28:49.680 --> 01:28:52.159 it change any of the return dynamics or he has 1512 01:28:52.199 --> 01:28:55.439 to get Does it matter if he uses Nigerian crude? 1513 01:28:55.720 --> 01:28:57.479 Does the arrow eye change it anyway? 1514 01:28:58.840 --> 01:29:02.479 So I'll tell you that your crack spread. 1515 01:29:05.560 --> 01:29:09.000 Like I said, Nigerian crude about tech four blades of 1516 01:29:09.119 --> 01:29:11.479 ninurine crude has a lower. 1517 01:29:11.479 --> 01:29:17.399 Level of sulfur in the world API degree of mostly 1518 01:29:17.479 --> 01:29:18.359 thats one point one. 1519 01:29:20.520 --> 01:29:24.479 So the level of sulftware recovery is lower than for 1520 01:29:24.640 --> 01:29:27.359 the crew that you imports into Nigeria. 1521 01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:31.479 And the transportation fuels. 1522 01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:35.279 You get from Nigerian crude, which are lighter grade cruds, 1523 01:29:35.520 --> 01:29:40.079 is actually eighty twenty, so you get around eighty percent 1524 01:29:40.760 --> 01:29:45.319 transportation fuels and twenty percent non transportation fuels. But for 1525 01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:51.039 cruise that has density that a higher and then the 1526 01:29:51.119 --> 01:29:52.560 API degree that is lower. 1527 01:29:52.359 --> 01:29:55.119 Than tensity degrees that's one point one degrees, you get 1528 01:29:55.720 --> 01:29:59.399 transportation fuels of like sixty percent and non transportation fuels 1529 01:29:59.520 --> 01:30:04.039 like betrochemical fit style presidial fuel oils. 1530 01:30:05.680 --> 01:30:13.640 Like your what's it called? Now, you know, we're quite 1531 01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:15.760 a number of those non. 1532 01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:20.640 Transportation fuel derivatives. You get forty percent from crude that 1533 01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:21.800 has had dansity with. 1534 01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:24.720 A low IPI degree. So it's just a matter of 1535 01:30:25.000 --> 01:30:26.600 you know, the company doing. 1536 01:30:26.560 --> 01:30:30.640 Is ecologies and asking himself how much how much transportation 1537 01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:33.600 fuels do we want a crack spread compared to non 1538 01:30:33.640 --> 01:30:39.560 transportation fuels, and what makes sense a bat time considering 1539 01:30:39.640 --> 01:30:45.439 that tavier Great crews are actually cheaper than enlighter great cruits. 1540 01:30:46.319 --> 01:30:51.520 You know, and you know do this, but it costs 1541 01:30:51.640 --> 01:30:52.600 money to. 1542 01:30:52.720 --> 01:30:56.279 Bring in crude into Nigeria, and of crude costo money. 1543 01:30:56.399 --> 01:30:59.319 I was speaking earlier and I said that it's on 1544 01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:06.279 about six hundred and fifty million barrels of crude, sorry 1545 01:31:06.600 --> 01:31:11.279 you six hundred and in the six hundred and fifty 1546 01:31:11.319 --> 01:31:13.760 million dollars sorry worth of crude only on a monthly 1547 01:31:13.840 --> 01:31:17.800 basis he spends about ten million dollars monthly handling constant. 1548 01:31:20.479 --> 01:31:23.640 Then in Nigeria, I was speaking earlier, I said that 1549 01:31:24.720 --> 01:31:30.079 there are grades of crude that has another extra five 1550 01:31:30.159 --> 01:31:36.399 dollars twenty cents commission for the operato or the JMI 1551 01:31:36.479 --> 01:31:39.159 partner given to your TOD part trader and then selling 1552 01:31:39.319 --> 01:31:42.479 to him that doesn't kill when he buys crewed internationally. 1553 01:31:43.560 --> 01:31:43.720 You know. 1554 01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:46.800 So these are the variables that we have to look 1555 01:31:46.880 --> 01:31:50.159 at the situates and look at and put on the table. 1556 01:31:50.279 --> 01:31:53.479 I say, okay, on Nigerian crude, you have lose. 1557 01:31:54.640 --> 01:31:58.319 You get more transportation fuels and non transportation fuels, but 1558 01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:01.119 I'm having to pay and avery your third dollar fifty 1559 01:32:01.199 --> 01:32:05.920 cents as extra commission to buy Nigeria coulde on the 1560 01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:09.520 international crude is five to six dollarship ad than Nigerian 1561 01:32:09.600 --> 01:32:11.399 crude because I don't have to pay those commissions that 1562 01:32:11.399 --> 01:32:16.039 are imposed on me despite domestical supply opplications. But I 1563 01:32:16.199 --> 01:32:19.760 get forty percent non transportation fuels and transportation fields. 1564 01:32:20.199 --> 01:32:23.439 You know, and the level of software is higher which I. 1565 01:32:23.439 --> 01:32:26.880 Can convert into sulphuric acid and sell to B to 1566 01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:30.880 B companies for other manufacturing MMPs. So all these are 1567 01:32:30.960 --> 01:32:33.760 things that you know, the management of the finite has 1568 01:32:33.800 --> 01:32:35.439 to sit down and look at and say what mix 1569 01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:35.800 sens for. 1570 01:32:35.920 --> 01:32:39.279 Us, what's the best? But I'll tell you that there's 1571 01:32:39.319 --> 01:32:40.560 no way in the world where you have. 1572 01:32:42.119 --> 01:32:47.039 Your major producer of crude and then your major flagship refiner. 1573 01:32:47.079 --> 01:32:49.000 After all, all crude in the world is refined. 1574 01:32:49.039 --> 01:32:51.239 What's the purpose of coude or youth is not put 1575 01:32:51.359 --> 01:32:55.279 into refinities or refined into derivatives. You know, what's the 1576 01:32:55.319 --> 01:32:57.960 purpose of it? So why do you have a situation 1577 01:32:58.119 --> 01:33:01.439 where dan Wood has on came twenty billion dollars and 1578 01:33:01.479 --> 01:33:04.920 he wants to put an extra five to increase capacity 1579 01:33:04.960 --> 01:33:08.439 and build the secondry, and he cannot sub scrude from 1580 01:33:08.800 --> 01:33:11.159 his markets in Nigeria and is having to import crudely 1581 01:33:11.239 --> 01:33:12.359 for vessels to import. 1582 01:33:12.159 --> 01:33:14.399 Crude into the country doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. 1583 01:33:14.920 --> 01:33:17.399 And you don't have a regulator delay in permits sometimes 1584 01:33:17.439 --> 01:33:20.439 for him to approve permits for him to bring in 1585 01:33:20.520 --> 01:33:23.560 his products, his vessels to come or move lead Nigeria. 1586 01:33:24.840 --> 01:33:25.840 This is a fact. 1587 01:33:26.319 --> 01:33:28.520 So did all these are things I want to ask 1588 01:33:28.600 --> 01:33:31.359 yourself because one of the reasons why he built them 1589 01:33:31.640 --> 01:33:34.279 around the first place. You know, it was the comparative 1590 01:33:34.319 --> 01:33:36.920 advantage of Nigeria being a member of I started not 1591 01:33:37.000 --> 01:33:38.720 being a member of OPET because you know, I've told 1592 01:33:38.720 --> 01:33:41.199 you I don't see the economic benefits going forward of 1593 01:33:41.640 --> 01:33:42.159 staying as. 1594 01:33:42.119 --> 01:33:42.960 A member of OPET. 1595 01:33:43.479 --> 01:33:46.439 You know, Nigeria being the major crudle producer that I've 1596 01:33:46.479 --> 01:33:49.159 been doing this business for fifty seven years. What's the 1597 01:33:49.239 --> 01:33:52.560 point of view having a refinery in Nigeria if you 1598 01:33:52.640 --> 01:33:53.560 can also scrudle in. 1599 01:33:53.640 --> 01:33:55.199 Nigeria, does it make sense? 1600 01:33:55.960 --> 01:33:58.359 Why will you have a REFINERYEA and then the import 1601 01:33:58.439 --> 01:34:01.319 crudle for markets in other continents? 1602 01:34:01.359 --> 01:34:02.920 Does it make sense? It doesn't make any sense. 1603 01:34:04.520 --> 01:34:08.640 Right India, there's the largest refinery currently. Wish is that 1604 01:34:09.720 --> 01:34:12.640 it's hard crude, which is the reason why you've seen 1605 01:34:12.760 --> 01:34:15.560 that despite the sanctions on Russia. 1606 01:34:16.039 --> 01:34:19.880 You know, two after what happened happened, and with sanctions, 1607 01:34:20.000 --> 01:34:21.039 Russia was placed on. 1608 01:34:22.960 --> 01:34:25.760 An oil price cup of sixty dollars night is reduced 1609 01:34:25.800 --> 01:34:29.039 for five. One of the things that the consequences of 1610 01:34:29.119 --> 01:34:33.119 invading Ukraine was that they expelled Russia from what they 1611 01:34:33.159 --> 01:34:36.439 called the Swift system that connects about thirteen thousand banks 1612 01:34:36.479 --> 01:34:41.159 around the world. That SWIFT headquarters is based in Belgium. 1613 01:34:42.159 --> 01:34:44.840 You know, more than eight hundred and fifty countries are 1614 01:34:44.880 --> 01:34:48.560 members of the SWIFT system, you know, which means that 1615 01:34:48.880 --> 01:34:53.399 Russian oil and as companies can open elsi's to export 1616 01:34:53.479 --> 01:34:57.239 Russian crude. So you have Russia operate some of the 1617 01:34:57.359 --> 01:35:01.760 largest fleet shadow fleet ships systems in the world where 1618 01:35:02.359 --> 01:35:05.520 the ship crewed on that sanction to countries like China, 1619 01:35:05.640 --> 01:35:10.159 to countries like India, and you know through ship to 1620 01:35:10.199 --> 01:35:14.199 ship transfer, you know, bunkering hops and they're able to 1621 01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:17.000 buy pass offa at the US Treasury and they don't 1622 01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:20.119 come manger sanctions. Now India wishes they had crewed, China 1623 01:35:20.199 --> 01:35:23.479 wishes they had crew They don't have crude in commercial quantities, 1624 01:35:23.800 --> 01:35:27.119 they have it too import Even Nigeria is a major producer. 1625 01:35:27.600 --> 01:35:29.800 What is the advantage of being a media producer if 1626 01:35:29.880 --> 01:35:32.359 you're a finale I cannot source crude in Nigeria and 1627 01:35:32.439 --> 01:35:34.640 you're having to play all kinds of bottlenecks and road. 1628 01:35:34.520 --> 01:35:35.039 Blocks for him. 1629 01:35:35.199 --> 01:35:39.920 Understand participles considering that any pieces a shoulder in the refinery. 1630 01:35:40.319 --> 01:35:42.880 By the way, okay well said, just want to get 1631 01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:45.520 that context for folks to follow. Let's get who I 1632 01:35:45.600 --> 01:35:48.039 think it was. Who was a Kilo killer? 1633 01:35:48.119 --> 01:35:48.560 Then Labby? 1634 01:35:48.600 --> 01:35:52.319 So do killo Labby? Then killer? Sorry, let's go to Kilo. 1635 01:35:54.600 --> 01:35:54.800 Kevin. 1636 01:35:54.840 --> 01:35:59.840 I sent you indeed just in case killers. Go ahead, Okay, 1637 01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:01.720 good name Calum. 1638 01:36:03.600 --> 01:36:08.720 I I would like to make a comment and also 1639 01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:10.560 ask a question very ver quickly. 1640 01:36:12.279 --> 01:36:15.720 It seems to me that I get all the talk 1641 01:36:15.800 --> 01:36:20.319 we always do every year about an NPC governance and 1642 01:36:20.479 --> 01:36:23.279 couple of governors and everything, but I don't think any 1643 01:36:23.800 --> 01:36:27.720 but it seems fairly straightforward and clear to me that 1644 01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:32.760 any same governments. I'm not talking with the government that 1645 01:36:32.840 --> 01:36:37.880 cares about governance, but the government that's exactly moved by politics. 1646 01:36:38.039 --> 01:36:40.279 Well not really want to reform the NNPC. 1647 01:36:41.279 --> 01:36:43.520 It makes a lot of political sense to keep any 1648 01:36:43.640 --> 01:36:47.920 PC the way it is as redo the corruption and 1649 01:36:48.159 --> 01:36:53.279 redo these inefficiencies as it currently is, because it's a 1650 01:36:53.359 --> 01:36:59.239 way to buy fables from people, move funding in in 1651 01:36:59.520 --> 01:37:00.760 dodgy is and all of that. 1652 01:37:01.399 --> 01:37:03.439 Why give that up when you can. 1653 01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:09.159 When when using other apparateses of states can be much 1654 01:37:09.199 --> 01:37:12.880 more difficult and much more susceptible to. 1655 01:37:14.079 --> 01:37:17.359 Accountability and and probing and all of that. 1656 01:37:17.520 --> 01:37:22.439 So I I so on the issue of the n MPC, 1657 01:37:22.600 --> 01:37:26.239 I have sort of tuned off from the whole thing 1658 01:37:26.319 --> 01:37:32.720 about asking for governors for accountability and corporate governance in 1659 01:37:32.960 --> 01:37:37.000 the in the organization because it doesn't seem to me 1660 01:37:37.119 --> 01:37:40.199 that any government is going to do that, not any 1661 01:37:40.279 --> 01:37:44.279 of the people that are planning for transparency in the 1662 01:37:44.359 --> 01:37:46.720 political space right now, it doesn't seem to mean that 1663 01:37:46.840 --> 01:37:49.600 any of them would ever do that because it serves 1664 01:37:49.680 --> 01:37:54.720 their interest, their immediate interest, to keep its going as 1665 01:37:54.760 --> 01:37:55.000 it is. 1666 01:37:55.840 --> 01:37:57.279 My question now is. 1667 01:37:58.640 --> 01:38:04.159 With the with the political economy reality of n NPC, 1668 01:38:05.079 --> 01:38:11.199 how do we how do we ensure that the NNPC 1669 01:38:11.399 --> 01:38:16.000 is able to encourage a thriving oil sector, thriving all 1670 01:38:16.039 --> 01:38:20.720 and gas sector, that incentives are aligned for companies to 1671 01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:26.359 invest in both the capabilities on your capabilities and also 1672 01:38:26.479 --> 01:38:30.439 capabilities and also the maintenance of only infrastructure in the country. 1673 01:38:30.680 --> 01:38:33.520 Thank you very much, Kevin. That's for you. Great question. 1674 01:38:41.840 --> 01:38:49.039 Kelvin Calum Yeah, I like the question back for let 1675 01:38:49.079 --> 01:38:53.319 me he's basically killo in some ways asking how can 1676 01:38:53.479 --> 01:38:55.840 NNPC be more efficient for Kilo. If you want to 1677 01:38:55.880 --> 01:38:57.479 give your own language, you want to see it again 1678 01:38:57.520 --> 01:38:58.239 your question again? 1679 01:38:59.520 --> 01:39:04.079 Okay, my question is giving the political economy realities, being 1680 01:39:04.199 --> 01:39:08.399 that no compility is ever going to reform the NPC. 1681 01:39:08.560 --> 01:39:11.439 We're just doing a lot of intellectual. 1682 01:39:11.359 --> 01:39:17.560 Stimulation's intellectually stimulating talk here. How do we ensure that 1683 01:39:19.000 --> 01:39:26.399 the incentives of that NPC is able to create a 1684 01:39:26.560 --> 01:39:32.239 thriving of the stimulated No, not driving, It's able to 1685 01:39:32.319 --> 01:39:38.319 create incentives that will encourage companies to invest in the 1686 01:39:38.439 --> 01:39:43.840 capability on you and of your especially local oil companies, 1687 01:39:44.199 --> 01:39:49.960 and also invest in all that's infrastructure in the country. 1688 01:39:50.399 --> 01:39:50.720 Thank you. 1689 01:39:54.640 --> 01:39:57.840 So, first of all, I think we earlier we spoke 1690 01:39:57.840 --> 01:40:03.199 about governors for mcgoverness is the biggest problem that has 1691 01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:05.800 I think if I were getting you right, I think 1692 01:40:05.880 --> 01:40:10.640 you're talking about how the government has strengthened independent like 1693 01:40:10.720 --> 01:40:12.760 the relation supplies. 1694 01:40:14.439 --> 01:40:17.479 And the likes of the independence that are springing up. 1695 01:40:17.640 --> 01:40:22.239 They make up what they called independent Portrayum Producers group. 1696 01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:28.359 So, as you point, am I correct, Sorry girls in sorry, 1697 01:40:28.560 --> 01:40:32.680 So what I'm saying is this, So you know, local 1698 01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:36.960 companies people always say that they lack the sorry, the 1699 01:40:37.079 --> 01:40:38.960 ability to do offshield. 1700 01:40:38.560 --> 01:40:39.319 Reading and all of that. 1701 01:40:39.520 --> 01:40:43.399 So given the opic system, the current system of the NNPC, 1702 01:40:43.560 --> 01:40:47.920 how do we ensure that they that these local companies 1703 01:40:48.199 --> 01:40:50.479 able to develop that capacity to be able to do 1704 01:40:51.439 --> 01:40:56.199 offshore e MP and also to ensure that they invest 1705 01:40:56.279 --> 01:40:58.960 in the all and that's infrastructure giving the system. I'm 1706 01:40:59.000 --> 01:41:01.239 not talking of the deals. The stem of what there 1707 01:41:01.359 --> 01:41:04.279 is accountability and then which I don't. 1708 01:41:04.079 --> 01:41:05.000 Think it is great to happen. 1709 01:41:08.279 --> 01:41:12.800 So it's first of all, I think finance is the 1710 01:41:12.880 --> 01:41:18.880 problem for the independent. You know, raising finance is not 1711 01:41:19.199 --> 01:41:22.720 is not very easy. And the reason I said that 1712 01:41:22.920 --> 01:41:26.319 is because a lot of them, you know, do p 1713 01:41:26.479 --> 01:41:31.520 ex flaws, pre expert exam the facility. Yeah, if you 1714 01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:36.760 look at the acquisition of sales assets or over five 1715 01:41:36.840 --> 01:41:42.520 of the Wales, I'll tell you that anywhere forty for. 1716 01:41:42.640 --> 01:41:43.600 The thirty percent of that. 1717 01:41:46.439 --> 01:41:51.039 You know, acquisition was funded by debt death that was 1718 01:41:51.119 --> 01:41:53.720 given by the company selling. 1719 01:41:55.199 --> 01:41:57.560 Two degree the four of them. 1720 01:41:58.159 --> 01:42:00.319 So you can imagine four companies community get from a 1721 01:42:00.359 --> 01:42:05.439 consultum and then in the acquisition model the company is 1722 01:42:05.479 --> 01:42:08.960 selling gave a debt of an for two percent that 1723 01:42:09.199 --> 01:42:16.199 is recoverable with gas. So the company will take the gas, 1724 01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:20.279 some of the associated gas trapped and put it back 1725 01:42:20.359 --> 01:42:27.279 into the IGVC that processes lergy. You can imagine, so 1726 01:42:27.399 --> 01:42:30.439 you see that there is a financing problem. That's the 1727 01:42:30.600 --> 01:42:33.720 first problem that the independents have. I think it's going 1728 01:42:33.760 --> 01:42:36.239 to get better over time, you know. I think they 1729 01:42:36.279 --> 01:42:39.680 are going to grow. And if they keep a lot 1730 01:42:39.720 --> 01:42:42.640 of retaining in our invest backs into the business, expand 1731 01:42:42.640 --> 01:42:45.359 the side of the business, they will grow over the 1732 01:42:45.479 --> 01:42:46.520 next five to ten years. 1733 01:42:47.479 --> 01:42:51.800 But there's also a matter of experience. The IOCs, the 1734 01:42:51.880 --> 01:42:54.319 six SI Stars, they have the kind of experience the. 1735 01:42:54.359 --> 01:42:58.720 Technical debt that the independents don't have because they've been 1736 01:42:58.760 --> 01:43:02.439 in the business for decades. So it's not just about you, 1737 01:43:02.800 --> 01:43:06.359 you know, winning big rounds and getting blocks off shore, 1738 01:43:07.119 --> 01:43:08.439 you know, and raising money. 1739 01:43:08.479 --> 01:43:10.680 You also need experience. You know. 1740 01:43:11.520 --> 01:43:14.439 I think that experience you cannot buy it with money. 1741 01:43:14.640 --> 01:43:17.199 But I also think that you cannot fast forward it. 1742 01:43:17.720 --> 01:43:20.960 You need to allow the process to take its cost, 1743 01:43:21.800 --> 01:43:23.479 so it will take time for you to see it. 1744 01:43:23.560 --> 01:43:25.920 Independence operat on shore and shadow. 1745 01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:29.640 What has to actually migrates and graduates at the point 1746 01:43:29.680 --> 01:43:31.560 where they are able to go off shore to do 1747 01:43:31.680 --> 01:43:37.800 what them likes of snapcher Eso emp Chevron and the 1748 01:43:38.000 --> 01:43:40.319 likes are able to do any and they are able 1749 01:43:40.399 --> 01:43:42.239 to do it to take time. I don't think there's 1750 01:43:42.279 --> 01:43:46.359 any need for you to rush that process because the 1751 01:43:46.479 --> 01:43:50.520 independence are they have their legs are shaking, you know, 1752 01:43:50.800 --> 01:43:51.359 they're not there. 1753 01:43:54.079 --> 01:43:56.840 All right, all right, thanks for that. And if you 1754 01:43:56.880 --> 01:44:01.319 can move to kill to labby, they will do abdul 1755 01:44:01.399 --> 01:44:04.279 and get to Abdul. Yes, yes it so let's to 1756 01:44:04.359 --> 01:44:09.640 lobby you go ahead and order. How are you doing? 1757 01:44:10.319 --> 01:44:11.760 Okay? 1758 01:44:11.840 --> 01:44:13.960 So if you could speak up just a bit, that 1759 01:44:14.039 --> 01:44:15.079 would be really helpful. 1760 01:44:15.880 --> 01:44:20.600 So can you hear? Yes? Okay, So thank you. 1761 01:44:20.960 --> 01:44:25.239 So what I think is the issue here is we 1762 01:44:25.399 --> 01:44:27.720 really talked about the governor's. 1763 01:44:28.760 --> 01:44:31.119 Issue related to an NPC. 1764 01:44:31.960 --> 01:44:36.239 So and also before that it's one of the political 1765 01:44:36.840 --> 01:44:39.039 power that government has to fulkill. 1766 01:44:39.119 --> 01:44:44.000 What's I do? So my question here is, now you 1767 01:44:44.159 --> 01:44:47.279 think an f PC can be wrong? 1768 01:44:47.800 --> 01:44:52.199 I mean in a better way because movements wouldn't want 1769 01:44:52.279 --> 01:44:58.199 to give out this this entity because of their political interest. 1770 01:44:58.399 --> 01:45:03.399 So just to kind of bring efficiency from the family business. 1771 01:45:03.920 --> 01:45:07.399 I'm also looking at the fact that it's coming to 1772 01:45:08.439 --> 01:45:13.119 the public very soon. I mean as a private investor, 1773 01:45:13.319 --> 01:45:17.159 I won't have this set of management running a business 1774 01:45:17.279 --> 01:45:18.159 and also want. 1775 01:45:18.039 --> 01:45:19.479 To put my money in there. 1776 01:45:20.119 --> 01:45:23.720 I mean an average individual, So what kind of models 1777 01:45:23.960 --> 01:45:27.479 or I mean business or leadership strategy. 1778 01:45:27.600 --> 01:45:30.600 Do you think an NPC can have built and then 1779 01:45:30.800 --> 01:45:34.520 to kind of be more efficient compared to the other 1780 01:45:34.640 --> 01:45:36.800 players industry. 1781 01:45:41.479 --> 01:45:41.760 Question? 1782 01:45:43.239 --> 01:45:46.479 You're you're the NPC rep here, so we have to 1783 01:45:46.560 --> 01:45:52.119 ask you, did you yeah, yeah, yeah, the np Yeah, 1784 01:45:52.159 --> 01:45:54.520 the residents expert. So I mean we want to know 1785 01:45:54.680 --> 01:45:56.479 because I think what people are trying to find out 1786 01:45:56.520 --> 01:45:58.680 from you is this. We know n n PC is 1787 01:45:58.800 --> 01:46:00.520 not running the way it's supposed to run, and we 1788 01:46:00.680 --> 01:46:03.239 want this thing to run properly so there's revenue, so 1789 01:46:03.319 --> 01:46:05.960 that I'm trying to find out from you what is wrong? 1790 01:46:06.239 --> 01:46:09.319 In in very so sense, what is wrong? How can 1791 01:46:09.399 --> 01:46:11.079 it be fixed? Because we don't want it to die. 1792 01:46:11.199 --> 01:46:13.840 We want it to be successful. And that's where the 1793 01:46:13.920 --> 01:46:19.720 sentiment is Calu First, like I said, you need to 1794 01:46:19.760 --> 01:46:26.079 fix the governor's issue. N NPC is a limited libility company. 1795 01:46:25.920 --> 01:46:30.840 Is no longer in state corporationion, is governed by Computer 1796 01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:34.880 Live Matters Acts and is governed by the PIA. Okay 1797 01:46:36.239 --> 01:46:39.119 is a concessionaire of the oil and assets that belongs 1798 01:46:39.119 --> 01:46:41.279 to the Federal Government of Naga, which means the gen 1799 01:46:41.399 --> 01:46:43.279 Is principlesure all that, but. 1800 01:46:43.439 --> 01:46:48.840 Now the f GEN does not have direct access by 1801 01:46:49.000 --> 01:46:53.880 law to decate the day to day management of the entity. 1802 01:46:55.760 --> 01:46:56.199 It doesn't. 1803 01:46:57.439 --> 01:47:01.159 That's the problem because what you have is a federal government, 1804 01:47:01.279 --> 01:47:05.000 as specifically the State House of Presidency sending memos and 1805 01:47:05.159 --> 01:47:09.439 directive to the Limited Library Company thinking that it is 1806 01:47:09.520 --> 01:47:13.520 still a state corporation and an appendage of the government. 1807 01:47:14.279 --> 01:47:18.520 It's not so. That was why the PI is set up. 1808 01:47:18.560 --> 01:47:21.600 The Ministry of Finance administr of Petroleum Corporated and. 1809 01:47:21.720 --> 01:47:25.800 Movie comes from Finance. Movie comes from Minister of Petroleum. 1810 01:47:25.880 --> 01:47:29.600 But now the proposed amendment is going to arrest all 1811 01:47:29.680 --> 01:47:34.239 of that beneficial ownership to Movie, which means that any 1812 01:47:34.319 --> 01:47:38.199 communication to an NPC, either the board or the management, 1813 01:47:38.279 --> 01:47:40.520 is supposed to come from the State House. 1814 01:47:41.920 --> 01:47:43.880 The state House represents the federal government. 1815 01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:47.119 The federal government is one of only literary shareholders in 1816 01:47:47.159 --> 01:47:47.600 the MBC. 1817 01:47:48.159 --> 01:47:51.920 Remember who is the FGN. FGN is federal state. 1818 01:47:52.000 --> 01:47:54.720 Amical government supposed to come from the State House to 1819 01:47:54.800 --> 01:47:58.319 the Minister of Finance. Minister of Finance who send communications 1820 01:47:58.399 --> 01:48:01.680 to the beneficial owner Mofie. 1821 01:48:02.239 --> 01:48:08.039 Mophie will send communication to the board. That is the structure. 1822 01:48:09.640 --> 01:48:15.359 If you neglect this structure then there's a governance problem 1823 01:48:18.239 --> 01:48:18.720 number one. 1824 01:48:19.439 --> 01:48:23.960 Number two, the State House, the fineral government of Nigeria 1825 01:48:24.079 --> 01:48:29.239 National Economic Council is supposed to convey the National Economic 1826 01:48:29.279 --> 01:48:34.399 Council of Privatization and approve effect memo for an MPC 1827 01:48:35.079 --> 01:48:40.000 to start the process of going to an IPO and 1828 01:48:40.279 --> 01:48:44.720 don't do like MPC, and that process will require for you, 1829 01:48:45.079 --> 01:48:47.000 and I'm going somewhere that present is required for you 1830 01:48:47.159 --> 01:48:52.640 to do like an audit of your contingent assets and liabilities, 1831 01:48:52.840 --> 01:48:57.560 evaluation and classification of all your assets across board, upstream, midstreamed, 1832 01:48:57.600 --> 01:49:00.960 downstream right, so that you know what contingent assets and 1833 01:49:01.039 --> 01:49:05.439 liabilities are right and it will help your investment bankers 1834 01:49:05.479 --> 01:49:07.479 to be able to do their building and. 1835 01:49:07.600 --> 01:49:09.079 Prices stock appropriately. 1836 01:49:10.079 --> 01:49:14.720 When you get to an IPO, the shareholders will sit 1837 01:49:15.000 --> 01:49:17.960 on the table and now decide who they want to 1838 01:49:18.039 --> 01:49:21.720 appoint the board and who they want in executive management. 1839 01:49:21.800 --> 01:49:23.560 It will no longer be State. 1840 01:49:23.359 --> 01:49:26.680 House press release the President appoints x y z people. 1841 01:49:27.319 --> 01:49:29.840 This person is EVP, this person is on the board, 1842 01:49:30.000 --> 01:49:32.239 this person is management. It will not be the President 1843 01:49:32.279 --> 01:49:33.920 that appoints the GCU or anymore. 1844 01:49:33.960 --> 01:49:38.920 It will be the shareholders that will sit down in shareholder's. 1845 01:49:38.439 --> 01:49:41.600 Meetings and make a decision on who they want to 1846 01:49:41.680 --> 01:49:43.319 be in executive management and who they. 1847 01:49:43.239 --> 01:49:47.039 Want to be on the board. They will do complete. 1848 01:49:46.680 --> 01:49:51.199 Business processor engineering and business transformation and determine what. 1849 01:49:53.399 --> 01:49:56.960 You know, subsidiaries in the group are dead, are draining money. 1850 01:49:57.000 --> 01:49:59.960 For example, you can see that their finery businesses are dead, 1851 01:50:00.479 --> 01:50:03.359 completely dead. They dream by their stocking money. They'll be 1852 01:50:03.399 --> 01:50:07.239 shocking money for the last twenty five years. Right, if 1853 01:50:07.319 --> 01:50:12.279 you send an MPC to an IPO, any reasonable. 1854 01:50:13.840 --> 01:50:15.560 Meeting of shareholders will. 1855 01:50:15.479 --> 01:50:19.520 Vote for that NMPC finarity business to be completely act 1856 01:50:19.560 --> 01:50:23.239 off and instead they'll vote to become shareholders in any 1857 01:50:23.279 --> 01:50:27.920 commercial entity that is operating financial sat for DANNTI, for example, 1858 01:50:28.560 --> 01:50:35.000 irreasonable shareholders meeting with vote right for them to increase 1859 01:50:35.039 --> 01:50:38.239 their shareholding in the danguitary has offered for them to 1860 01:50:38.319 --> 01:50:41.319 increase their shareholding in your finance twenty percent from several. 1861 01:50:42.239 --> 01:50:44.840 Two percents that they have currently has offered for them 1862 01:50:44.880 --> 01:50:47.039 to buy more shares have been taking up his offer. 1863 01:50:47.800 --> 01:50:49.720 That's left to be seen, you know. 1864 01:50:49.880 --> 01:50:53.439 So unless you have this process done right, you know, 1865 01:50:54.079 --> 01:50:55.880 you shouldn't expect anything to change. 1866 01:50:57.279 --> 01:51:00.439 You're just going to continue to seeing in interference affairs 1867 01:51:00.560 --> 01:51:07.960 interferes and the management on board will you know, be 1868 01:51:08.079 --> 01:51:11.640 handicapped and then off the walls to do their own. 1869 01:51:11.880 --> 01:51:14.680 Which we just sell the we just selling PC doing 1870 01:51:14.880 --> 01:51:18.199 PLC or ip O move on and it goes to 1871 01:51:18.279 --> 01:51:18.960 private sector? 1872 01:51:19.840 --> 01:51:21.600 What makes what makes better sense? 1873 01:51:21.680 --> 01:51:23.359 Instead of do you say you want to sell don 1874 01:51:23.439 --> 01:51:25.479 JV for example, what makes better sense is for you 1875 01:51:25.560 --> 01:51:27.319 to actually send into the market. 1876 01:51:27.159 --> 01:51:29.800 And say, okay, we're going to sell thirty percent or 1877 01:51:29.840 --> 01:51:31.479 forty percent to. 1878 01:51:31.600 --> 01:51:35.840 The markets thirty percent so Cetagram will still own it, 1879 01:51:36.760 --> 01:51:37.920 they will still go on or run it. 1880 01:51:38.039 --> 01:51:38.760 Is that what that means? 1881 01:51:38.960 --> 01:51:41.960 No, I'm just giving an example. I'm just giving an example. 1882 01:51:42.000 --> 01:51:49.800 That's what makes better sense than selling down JG. That's 1883 01:51:49.840 --> 01:51:50.720 what makes better sense. 1884 01:51:51.880 --> 01:51:54.880 Do you send it to an IPO and allow the 1885 01:51:55.000 --> 01:51:57.399 markets to be the market, allow the markets to learn 1886 01:51:57.840 --> 01:51:59.319 the way markets run efficiently? 1887 01:52:01.479 --> 01:52:07.960 Mm hmm. So can I just real quick? Yeah, it's 1888 01:52:08.600 --> 01:52:12.520 basically ways. Maybe if it's is sense markets and if 1889 01:52:12.760 --> 01:52:14.039 energies still retain. 1890 01:52:13.760 --> 01:52:17.119 The significance I mean it's centigal. 1891 01:52:16.720 --> 01:52:20.079 The audience, and then it's not going to change the 1892 01:52:20.319 --> 01:52:22.560 leadership and the governance structure. 1893 01:52:22.600 --> 01:52:26.239 I mean next is actually the biggest concern And how 1894 01:52:26.319 --> 01:52:27.880 do you think them in sending. 1895 01:52:27.600 --> 01:52:31.720 It to the markets, we change them. It wange, it 1896 01:52:31.800 --> 01:52:37.279 will change, it will change. If when you have shareholders 1897 01:52:37.760 --> 01:52:40.159 no shareholders, right, you. 1898 01:52:40.239 --> 01:52:42.880 Have probably like a two hundred billion dollar form in 1899 01:52:42.880 --> 01:52:46.039 the US that was maybe five percent of it. You 1900 01:52:46.119 --> 01:52:48.720 have quite a number of those phones that can relatively 1901 01:52:48.720 --> 01:52:51.359 almost like to five percent of it. Because the board 1902 01:52:51.399 --> 01:52:54.479 blocks in an ipe of private placements and they have 1903 01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:56.399 a footing block on the board, it would. 1904 01:52:56.279 --> 01:53:00.760 Change, it would change. Okay. So Leegi is one of 1905 01:53:00.800 --> 01:53:02.640 the best run companies in Nigeria. Every if I have 1906 01:53:02.800 --> 01:53:07.039 questions for them that you know, our thing is that thing. 1907 01:53:08.000 --> 01:53:10.479 It's one of the best companies in Nigeria. FIST has 1908 01:53:10.520 --> 01:53:13.600 designated them as one of the most complaints tax paying 1909 01:53:13.640 --> 01:53:14.479 companies in Nigeria. 1910 01:53:14.560 --> 01:53:17.640 Is a niger the government owns for the nine percent 1911 01:53:18.479 --> 01:53:20.800 doout share any owns fifty one percent? 1912 01:53:21.039 --> 01:53:25.319 Related, is the government able to tell an allegin what 1913 01:53:25.439 --> 01:53:25.560 to do? 1914 01:53:26.399 --> 01:53:31.159 No, no, why why forty one forty nine percent? 1915 01:53:33.279 --> 01:53:36.399 Exactly exactly present? 1916 01:53:38.479 --> 01:53:40.640 Of course they have because when you when you when 1917 01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:45.560 you relatively owns fifty one percent, you have controlling votes 1918 01:53:46.479 --> 01:53:47.000 on the board. 1919 01:53:49.399 --> 01:53:52.399 Yeah, and that's my view of how any any position 1920 01:53:52.399 --> 01:53:55.000 should go. It should be so have a technical partner, 1921 01:53:55.239 --> 01:53:59.079 one as a core investor, then sell the other equity 1922 01:53:59.159 --> 01:54:04.039 to niger Urians p fees Nigerian individuals. Nigerians own it, 1923 01:54:04.560 --> 01:54:06.680 but the technical partner then come in to sort of 1924 01:54:06.800 --> 01:54:10.079 partner roller. Aramco did it, you know, they did it 1925 01:54:10.079 --> 01:54:13.359 all to get long term funding and technology in. They 1926 01:54:13.399 --> 01:54:16.560 have the reserves. We boost that, we create jobs. We 1927 01:54:16.880 --> 01:54:19.800 build out this thing into a mega company. Not this 1928 01:54:20.039 --> 01:54:23.199 one point five numbers who are doing I'm celebrating five 1929 01:54:23.239 --> 01:54:26.039 point four trillion. We can do much much more, Kevin. 1930 01:54:26.079 --> 01:54:26.840 That's just my view. 1931 01:54:27.119 --> 01:54:29.479 So can you're about to go? I think we have 1932 01:54:29.600 --> 01:54:31.760 space for just two more questions for you. I've got 1933 01:54:31.880 --> 01:54:36.960 abdul abdul jabbai ya and I'll just take dexter real quick, guys, 1934 01:54:37.000 --> 01:54:42.960 say we can just tell Kevin buy and then yes, 1935 01:54:43.039 --> 01:54:44.399 I can please go ahead real quick. 1936 01:54:44.680 --> 01:54:46.840 Okay, So I have two quick questions. 1937 01:54:47.000 --> 01:54:51.079 Number one, what about if you do take an epcity 1938 01:54:51.119 --> 01:54:54.479 to the markets, What about the risk of the government 1939 01:54:54.760 --> 01:54:59.800 in power going through cronies to acquire a substantials taking 1940 01:54:59.840 --> 01:55:02.840 and PC just like we've seen in the power sector. 1941 01:55:03.560 --> 01:55:07.079 My second question is a story off topic about the 1942 01:55:07.199 --> 01:55:12.520 tax reforms. So while the benefits of the tax reforms 1943 01:55:12.600 --> 01:55:18.439 are positive, the reforms have no control or leverage over 1944 01:55:18.560 --> 01:55:23.800 how the government spends the additional revenue and for twenty 1945 01:55:23.920 --> 01:55:29.640 twenty four the recurrent expend sorry, the dead service. The 1946 01:55:29.720 --> 01:55:33.000 federal government spent twice as much on death service as 1947 01:55:33.039 --> 01:55:36.880 it did on capital expenditure, which means you're essentially taking 1948 01:55:36.960 --> 01:55:38.560 money from your future generations and. 1949 01:55:38.600 --> 01:55:39.399 Spending it today. 1950 01:55:39.960 --> 01:55:44.560 So my suggestion is, in your development levy that are 1951 01:55:44.680 --> 01:55:47.960 charging for its done and Senny Trust fund, why don't 1952 01:55:48.039 --> 01:55:50.840 you portion a part of your development levy to your. 1953 01:55:50.720 --> 01:55:53.960 Sovereign with fund so that while you have is not 1954 01:55:54.000 --> 01:55:55.760 really practical to assume that. 1955 01:55:55.840 --> 01:55:59.359 The NAJA government will starts spending responsibly overnight. 1956 01:55:59.600 --> 01:56:03.119 You have something that when you do have your governments 1957 01:56:03.199 --> 01:56:04.359 that is that that. 1958 01:56:05.039 --> 01:56:09.760 Is spending responsibly, they would have something substantial to spend. 1959 01:56:11.039 --> 01:56:11.439 Questions. 1960 01:56:11.520 --> 01:56:14.199 Thank you, Yeah, I think your second was just spot on. 1961 01:56:14.359 --> 01:56:16.680 That's a wonderful idea. Just maybe if it points to 1962 01:56:16.920 --> 01:56:19.159 zero one, but we'll just take that money give suvery 1963 01:56:19.159 --> 01:56:22.199 world's phone. I think it's a fantastic solution. I doubt 1964 01:56:22.239 --> 01:56:24.520 they will do because you know in Nigeria they will 1965 01:56:24.600 --> 01:56:26.960 tell you that Christians who must share the money and 1966 01:56:27.079 --> 01:56:31.319 not spend not not say what fantastic suggestion, Kevin? Did 1967 01:56:31.359 --> 01:56:35.079 you hear his first question? He's basically why what? What 1968 01:56:35.239 --> 01:56:38.239 stops all the billions from just buying up an NPC 1969 01:56:38.399 --> 01:56:39.640 and not sending it to people like me? 1970 01:56:40.960 --> 01:56:49.399 So you remember when your first bank sold by about 1971 01:56:49.439 --> 01:56:56.640 to the CRUs company. Yeah, and you know, I think 1972 01:56:56.680 --> 01:56:58.199 with significant control. 1973 01:56:58.279 --> 01:57:02.399 PSC was identified as a company that was newly registered 1974 01:57:02.479 --> 01:57:06.600 in the UK and it raised some concerns. So I'm 1975 01:57:06.640 --> 01:57:12.479 aware that central Bank is it's prevailing on that entity 1976 01:57:12.680 --> 01:57:14.199 to resell the shares. 1977 01:57:15.319 --> 01:57:21.319 You know, a report risk for personal significant significant control 1978 01:57:22.199 --> 01:57:26.439 not having Google have gone through the New. 1979 01:57:26.399 --> 01:57:31.119 York Customer KYC processes compliance processes that the Central Bank 1980 01:57:31.199 --> 01:57:32.319 has suited from. 1981 01:57:32.720 --> 01:57:40.960 Both the bank and other financial investors acts you know, 1982 01:57:41.720 --> 01:57:45.119 financial institutions are you know, so. 1983 01:57:47.279 --> 01:57:53.840 When it comes to its right there, compliance processes personal 1984 01:57:53.920 --> 01:58:00.720 significant control that the system has protocol for. The question 1985 01:58:00.960 --> 01:58:03.760 is will live in first And the reason I broadest 1986 01:58:03.800 --> 01:58:07.680 example of First Bank is because it gives a perfect 1987 01:58:08.000 --> 01:58:12.520 picture of what you ask that was, what are the 1988 01:58:12.640 --> 01:58:15.880 chances that unknown people you know. 1989 01:58:17.840 --> 01:58:23.600 Or you know politicians, politically exposed persons who do not 1990 01:58:23.760 --> 01:58:25.239 learn their money through. 1991 01:58:26.800 --> 01:58:30.439 Beneficial owners and offshore accounts to buy all these shares. 1992 01:58:31.680 --> 01:58:36.600 You know, if you go through that process, the chances 1993 01:58:37.199 --> 01:58:38.840 of that happening will be reduced. 1994 01:58:39.640 --> 01:58:42.279 So you have a block that goes to the general 1995 01:58:42.439 --> 01:58:46.239 public in Nigeria, you have a block that goes to 1996 01:58:46.399 --> 01:58:47.359 soitual investors. 1997 01:58:48.119 --> 01:58:54.039 You can apportion that that idea, you know, and you ensure. 1998 01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:56.439 That the block that goes to soitual investors goes to 1999 01:58:56.600 --> 01:59:00.399 soitual investors with the track record you know, not the 2000 01:59:00.520 --> 01:59:03.560 companies that will set up twenty four months ago, ve 2001 01:59:03.600 --> 01:59:06.720 months ago with no history, and you have people sitting. 2002 01:59:06.479 --> 01:59:07.560 On the board who are like. 2003 01:59:10.079 --> 01:59:15.720 Nominal paseholders on behalf of the real owners at the background. 2004 01:59:16.880 --> 01:59:19.000 Yeah, I don't know if you answers your. 2005 01:59:19.000 --> 01:59:21.520 Question, and Kevin, there also many ways to do this right. 2006 01:59:21.600 --> 01:59:24.720 You can basically make the shares non voting for a 2007 01:59:24.840 --> 01:59:28.199 period or non voting forever. So if you have fifty 2008 01:59:28.239 --> 01:59:30.399 percent shares, you want to start Nagian public and simply 2009 01:59:30.439 --> 01:59:33.960 say these fifty percent shares are non voting for ten 2010 01:59:34.079 --> 01:59:37.079 years or non voting forever. So why would I buy 2011 01:59:37.159 --> 01:59:39.079 your shares if I can then use it to then 2012 01:59:39.359 --> 01:59:41.279 have a board seat. If I want to buy your 2013 01:59:41.359 --> 01:59:44.960 shirt to make revenues, fantastic. So you have your money, 2014 01:59:45.279 --> 01:59:48.600 you want to sell your shares to Dangote or to whatever. 2015 01:59:49.039 --> 01:59:51.039 You sell your shares to them, they get the revenues, 2016 01:59:51.079 --> 01:59:53.319 but they will not use those shares to get a 2017 01:59:53.399 --> 01:59:55.680 boat seat. Nobody will buy them. But they are real 2018 01:59:55.760 --> 01:59:58.159 shares because they pay you revenue. They pay you income 2019 01:59:58.319 --> 02:00:01.319 because it's a utility. So when you buy a company 2020 02:00:01.439 --> 02:00:06.000 like NNPC, you are buying for income. The price will double, yes, 2021 02:00:06.279 --> 02:00:08.079 but it's not going to You're not buying Dangote because 2022 02:00:08.359 --> 02:00:10.880 going to go to one thousand in presenting one week. 2023 02:00:10.920 --> 02:00:15.119 It's for income. It's a utility like Exonmobile, like Chevron. 2024 02:00:15.479 --> 02:00:20.000 So make the shares transferable but are not votable, so 2025 02:00:20.159 --> 02:00:23.359 you can sell them, but those shares cannot count for 2026 02:00:23.439 --> 02:00:25.520 you to vote. Only the ones that you buy from 2027 02:00:25.680 --> 02:00:29.840 primary issue are votable. End of story. Nobody will chase 2028 02:00:29.920 --> 02:00:32.359 you to sell it. But yeah, I think that's a 2029 02:00:32.479 --> 02:00:32.840 good one. 2030 02:00:33.000 --> 02:00:33.199 Yeah. 2031 02:00:33.239 --> 02:00:35.039 So the last question is it's gonna be from Dexter 2032 02:00:35.720 --> 02:00:38.279 Dexta Brian, Then will just let's call claims has a 2033 02:00:38.520 --> 02:00:46.199 stop Dexter. You've got the flow dexter. Dexter has sold 2034 02:00:46.239 --> 02:00:48.359 themselves out kept in real quickly. I just so will 2035 02:00:48.520 --> 02:00:50.359 before I let you go, Kevin, let's just come back 2036 02:00:50.399 --> 02:00:53.000 to our earlier conversations we are having. The wheel is 2037 02:00:53.039 --> 02:00:55.479 an insurance company sell uping the Bahamas is owned by 2038 02:00:55.479 --> 02:00:59.760 the NNPC one hundred percent. So NNPC is borrowing money 2039 02:00:59.800 --> 02:01:04.039 from that insurance company to invest in Gagada IPP. That's 2040 02:01:04.039 --> 02:01:06.479 what's going on, the boring money from that company to 2041 02:01:06.600 --> 02:01:10.439 invest in Guaguada I PP. So yeah, I'm just selling 2042 02:01:10.479 --> 02:01:10.880 what I'm. 2043 02:01:10.760 --> 02:01:15.439 Reading, sir. In two thousand positions of the company Call 2044 02:01:16.520 --> 02:01:18.199 Limited in the Cayman Islands. 2045 02:01:19.359 --> 02:01:21.680 I have the document from the Government of the Kymans 2046 02:01:22.479 --> 02:01:29.000 kingston Man Islands, and NPC Engine Limited is responsible for 2047 02:01:29.119 --> 02:01:30.119 trading some equity. 2048 02:01:30.279 --> 02:01:31.600 Lengine on behalf of the group. 2049 02:01:33.920 --> 02:01:36.520 So the question I have is why are you setting 2050 02:01:36.640 --> 02:01:39.039 up a company offshore in the Kman Islands. 2051 02:01:40.119 --> 02:01:44.279 Why the might I tell you that, I mean my 2052 02:01:44.880 --> 02:01:47.880 same iss to raise funds there, because this company is 2053 02:01:48.159 --> 02:01:51.359 funds are raising there were to do the borrowed n 2054 02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:56.000 NPC forty six billion for the six billions for the 2055 02:01:56.119 --> 02:01:59.199 question to ask, is the money is that the companies 2056 02:01:59.520 --> 02:02:03.960 offshore they had gotten it from the America. The visually 2057 02:02:04.039 --> 02:02:09.039 own sovereign bonds in in Kyman. We don't know because 2058 02:02:09.079 --> 02:02:11.800 this is in Bahamas. That's why it's Bermuda. That's why 2059 02:02:11.840 --> 02:02:15.239 it's coated there because you can't see it. So, I mean, 2060 02:02:15.319 --> 02:02:17.640 it's what I'm trying to go to. 2061 02:02:17.760 --> 02:02:18.239 Is this right? 2062 02:02:19.119 --> 02:02:22.399 N a PC is making a trillion in profits, but 2063 02:02:22.560 --> 02:02:25.039 it's borrowing money from sufts. Is moving the money all around. 2064 02:02:25.079 --> 02:02:26.239 You have E E. 2065 02:02:26.439 --> 02:02:29.399 M P lending money to and serve. You have the 2066 02:02:29.479 --> 02:02:30.920 wheel lend them money to. 2067 02:02:32.640 --> 02:02:33.600 All the risk. 2068 02:02:37.560 --> 02:02:41.680 All right. I mean there's a lot here. The last 2069 02:02:41.800 --> 02:02:45.000 one really last one size this n NPC refinery in 2070 02:02:45.079 --> 02:02:47.840 the one in l m A. There's a privacy the 2071 02:02:47.960 --> 02:02:50.439 company that has gone there to set up a new 2072 02:02:50.600 --> 02:02:54.600 refinery in Lema. Hear me out. This private company has 2073 02:02:54.680 --> 02:02:57.800 gone to lem number one and n PC gave them 2074 02:02:58.279 --> 02:03:01.960 seven billion to buy equity from the company setting up 2075 02:03:01.960 --> 02:03:05.239 in lem A number one number two. N PC is 2076 02:03:05.279 --> 02:03:08.920 then investing equity in that company. I believe it's fifteen 2077 02:03:09.000 --> 02:03:11.239 percent n NPC number three. 2078 02:03:11.640 --> 02:03:14.239 Seven billion meant to buy. 2079 02:03:15.600 --> 02:03:19.159 So the company is playing rent. But the sampline is 2080 02:03:19.239 --> 02:03:22.960 the buying the equity and the sweat capital of the company. 2081 02:03:23.199 --> 02:03:28.800 That's seven to seven with I don't know I'm telling 2082 02:03:28.840 --> 02:03:32.439 you what I'm reading. I'm don't telling you all that. 2083 02:03:32.560 --> 02:03:34.640 So let me just give you the whole question. So 2084 02:03:34.880 --> 02:03:38.279 number one NP is investing some seven billion in this 2085 02:03:38.439 --> 02:03:42.000 in this company coming to lm A so n p's 2086 02:03:42.039 --> 02:03:44.800 own company. In fact, the refiner is going to sell 2087 02:03:45.560 --> 02:03:48.000 space to this new company in Lema. The company is 2088 02:03:48.039 --> 02:03:50.880 going to come and invested in that company Number one 2089 02:03:51.920 --> 02:04:00.960 fifteen percent equity Number one, number two, number two, number 2090 02:04:01.039 --> 02:04:05.880 two the Nigerian local content phone. There's a local content 2091 02:04:06.000 --> 02:04:12.199 phone drawn by Nigerian whatever management content thinking they're investing 2092 02:04:12.439 --> 02:04:14.960 twenty percent in this same company. 2093 02:04:15.159 --> 02:04:15.680 So hear me. 2094 02:04:15.800 --> 02:04:21.439 Now, a private company is going to rent a federation asset, 2095 02:04:22.159 --> 02:04:26.039 then the federation asset is investing in the private company 2096 02:04:26.560 --> 02:04:29.960 or not that federal agency is investing in this private 2097 02:04:30.039 --> 02:04:34.239 company to set up a refinery in a federation asset. 2098 02:04:35.079 --> 02:04:36.119 How does that make any. 2099 02:04:36.039 --> 02:04:40.640 Sense without the approval of economic Yeah. 2100 02:04:40.560 --> 02:04:42.479 Yeah, but what okay? It's like me if I go 2101 02:04:42.560 --> 02:04:44.239 to the landlord and I say, lol, lord, how to 2102 02:04:44.279 --> 02:04:47.880 rent your house, the landlord gives me the house. The 2103 02:04:48.079 --> 02:04:52.279 landlord invests in my rent, The landlord's wife invests in 2104 02:04:52.399 --> 02:04:56.359 my in my rent, the landlord's sister buys easy for 2105 02:04:56.479 --> 02:04:58.720 my house, but I'm in the landlord. Doesn't make any sense. 2106 02:04:58.960 --> 02:05:03.319 Why can't they end PC simply settle his own, smaller 2107 02:05:03.439 --> 02:05:07.199 company of their own in its own refinery. Why most 2108 02:05:07.279 --> 02:05:12.279 a private company come from outside. I'm asking questions, honestly, 2109 02:05:12.399 --> 02:05:15.439 maybe some you can explain it better. I'm not accusing, 2110 02:05:15.880 --> 02:05:17.399 I'm not saying it doesn't make. 2111 02:05:17.319 --> 02:05:17.800 Sense to me. 2112 02:05:18.600 --> 02:05:24.800 Do you realize that you know the kills rebellionaire and 2113 02:05:25.159 --> 02:05:28.239 managing the debt refineries that it owns today? 2114 02:05:29.800 --> 02:05:34.720 Okay? Really, so why not sell the refinery to this company? 2115 02:05:35.159 --> 02:05:39.000 Why not sell the entire element refinery to this probate company. 2116 02:05:39.319 --> 02:05:43.199 I'll give you an instance. So you remember when there 2117 02:05:43.319 --> 02:05:46.800 was the whole Pengerson and No peng issue. Pengerson came 2118 02:05:46.840 --> 02:05:50.520 out and said, oh, that it doesn't make any sense 2119 02:05:50.600 --> 02:05:52.279 to sell the NMP refineries. 2120 02:05:53.359 --> 02:05:56.800 Same Pengerson that said that the refineries are working about 2121 02:05:57.039 --> 02:06:01.439 nineteen months ago. You know, they they said the engineers, 2122 02:06:01.560 --> 02:06:05.960 their experts, that they've gone there, they've accessed and they're working, 2123 02:06:06.039 --> 02:06:09.319 they're producing, they're supplying the markets, you know. 2124 02:06:09.920 --> 02:06:13.600 And then you have all these unions who. 2125 02:06:15.079 --> 02:06:19.760 Are in the system and bend in the system, whose 2126 02:06:19.840 --> 02:06:24.840 members benefit from the system. Quite a number of the 2127 02:06:24.920 --> 02:06:28.960 work has on the payrole of the government or refineries 2128 02:06:29.039 --> 02:06:32.560 and members of the unions. The government, for example, I'm 2129 02:06:32.640 --> 02:06:36.159 not holding brief for the government or excusing them from 2130 02:06:36.439 --> 02:06:40.520 for their mismanagement and efficiency. But in government comes and 2131 02:06:40.560 --> 02:06:44.119 says we're going to sell the refineries. News it goes 2132 02:06:44.159 --> 02:06:47.000 and protests, shut down the country, We shut down the 2133 02:06:47.119 --> 02:06:50.000 entire as said sector. You're not going to sell the 2134 02:06:50.039 --> 02:06:56.359 refineries their government owned entities. Blah blah blah. You see 2135 02:06:56.399 --> 02:07:00.079 the problem on one side. On the other side, you 2136 02:07:00.199 --> 02:07:05.319 got a results for sale agreement and you for sell 2137 02:07:05.359 --> 02:07:07.279 your crude or your guys. 2138 02:07:07.760 --> 02:07:08.560 You get the cash. 2139 02:07:08.640 --> 02:07:10.520 You say, you're putting the game into an around and 2140 02:07:10.720 --> 02:07:13.279 as thirty billion dollars wasted over the last six years, 2141 02:07:13.840 --> 02:07:14.760 nothing came out of it. 2142 02:07:15.800 --> 02:07:15.960 Right. 2143 02:07:17.520 --> 02:07:23.560 The question you should ask is if any PC was 2144 02:07:23.640 --> 02:07:27.680 in the hands of the market, not the government, will 2145 02:07:28.000 --> 02:07:30.920 the show that's vote to keep those assets? 2146 02:07:31.319 --> 02:07:39.760 Yes, I is, no, okay, so. 2147 02:07:41.479 --> 02:07:42.000 All right, so. 2148 02:07:45.079 --> 02:07:47.800 So so Kevin, I dially want to want the questions 2149 02:07:47.840 --> 02:07:50.840 I need to answer this, but this whole transaction wasn't 2150 02:07:50.960 --> 02:07:56.399 sit well with me. We're buying we're buying ten percent 2151 02:07:56.800 --> 02:08:01.720 because if the company is called African Finer Reporter Got Limited, 2152 02:08:01.880 --> 02:08:05.039 were buying ten percent for some seven billion. 2153 02:08:06.840 --> 02:08:10.840 Without the National Economy CONSULM privatization approving. 2154 02:08:11.520 --> 02:08:15.439 It doesn't need any sense for you to lease the 2155 02:08:15.520 --> 02:08:17.239 aspects that belows to the graduation. 2156 02:08:19.159 --> 02:08:22.600 It's not it's not a least, it's not well, let's 2157 02:08:22.680 --> 02:08:24.960 leave it at that. It's this is the thing about 2158 02:08:24.960 --> 02:08:27.520 the report that there are lots of there's a lot 2159 02:08:27.600 --> 02:08:31.239 of information the report, right, but it doesn't really make 2160 02:08:31.359 --> 02:08:34.399 sense if you really look at it, just in accounting 2161 02:08:35.359 --> 02:08:40.039 or financial management, just common sense accounting. Why why are 2162 02:08:40.079 --> 02:08:43.279 you paying for this invest When. 2163 02:08:43.199 --> 02:08:46.560 An MBC was going to invest in down Finale in 2164 02:08:46.680 --> 02:08:52.479 twenty twenty one, right, they were supposed to invest for 2165 02:08:52.600 --> 02:08:53.560 the equivalent. 2166 02:08:53.159 --> 02:08:55.560 Of twenty percent. The agreement was that they were going 2167 02:08:55.600 --> 02:08:56.800 to provide one billion. 2168 02:08:56.600 --> 02:08:59.760 Dollars for seven point two percent, which you currently have, 2169 02:09:00.840 --> 02:09:03.159 and that there raised the forces agreement. They loomed to 2170 02:09:03.199 --> 02:09:08.119 pay and they were going to now put up the 2171 02:09:08.119 --> 02:09:10.920 additional twelve point seven eight percent. 2172 02:09:11.600 --> 02:09:15.960 At Recruder Fitz stock for a tot all valuable one 2173 02:09:16.000 --> 02:09:20.279 per seven billion dollars. Now they didn't meet up exercise 2174 02:09:20.359 --> 02:09:21.000 that's rights. 2175 02:09:20.880 --> 02:09:25.199 The right of post refuser through the period that there 2176 02:09:25.239 --> 02:09:26.079 was supposed. 2177 02:09:25.680 --> 02:09:28.640 Exercises that and expired. The evaluation of refiners change because 2178 02:09:28.680 --> 02:09:36.600 this was pretty produce production operationals have started, the refiners 2179 02:09:36.640 --> 02:09:40.960 added bringing in revenue, so valuation has changed crassically. You know, 2180 02:09:41.439 --> 02:09:46.840 there was a council memo from the Federal Executive Council 2181 02:09:47.800 --> 02:09:49.760 to these effects. There was a council memo. 2182 02:09:51.079 --> 02:09:55.520 So if you're going to allow a company to operate 2183 02:09:55.800 --> 02:09:56.920 in a Federation. 2184 02:09:56.800 --> 02:10:00.479 Asset and then invest in that company, you need a 2185 02:10:00.600 --> 02:10:02.199 Caruncle memo approved. 2186 02:10:03.640 --> 02:10:07.199 Okay, So the question is you ask and any where 2187 02:10:07.279 --> 02:10:08.840 is the cauncle memo from the Federation. 2188 02:10:10.680 --> 02:10:13.079 All right, I mean it's I'm just I'm just I'm 2189 02:10:13.159 --> 02:10:15.319 just saying what I read here. But I mean, Kevin, 2190 02:10:15.439 --> 02:10:17.319 thank you so much for being here. Like I said, 2191 02:10:18.439 --> 02:10:21.039 we won't want to exhumes the good, the bad, the 2192 02:10:21.600 --> 02:10:23.720 unknown in the NNPC report. I think if you've us 2193 02:10:23.760 --> 02:10:28.359 a lot of deep industry analysis and answers to our questions, 2194 02:10:28.399 --> 02:10:31.000 where civilians in this. What we really know is that 2195 02:10:31.199 --> 02:10:35.359 NNPC in the past was very opaque. Now we're at 2196 02:10:35.439 --> 02:10:38.600 least getting the reports. Hopefully the next five years not 2197 02:10:38.680 --> 02:10:41.600 that we'll get reports, the whole structure will be a 2198 02:10:41.760 --> 02:10:44.920 bit clearer, a bit simpler, and we should see this 2199 02:10:45.079 --> 02:10:47.640 five point four trillion profit maybe show up. 2200 02:10:47.760 --> 02:10:48.279 In fact. 2201 02:10:48.399 --> 02:10:50.279 You know, like I asked you, who owns this money? 2202 02:10:50.319 --> 02:10:52.439 You said, it's own by the federation. So that means 2203 02:10:52.479 --> 02:10:54.560 that my small state should get a bit of this 2204 02:10:54.720 --> 02:10:57.600 five point four This money should go towards doing something. 2205 02:10:57.760 --> 02:11:02.760 I looked up the disbursements for university guys that are 2206 02:11:02.760 --> 02:11:05.199 going to school. The disbursement. It's not a turndred billion. 2207 02:11:05.640 --> 02:11:08.239 We've made five point four trillion. What it means that 2208 02:11:08.439 --> 02:11:13.199 tomorrow the President cannot write a check debiting this NNPC 2209 02:11:15.279 --> 02:11:19.279 net profit, debiting the cash raised from this net profit. 2210 02:11:19.560 --> 02:11:21.479 And I'm not just gonna be five point four and 2211 02:11:21.560 --> 02:11:24.800 then use that cash and pay off the debts of 2212 02:11:25.199 --> 02:11:28.359 every student in Nigeria that has taken a loan under 2213 02:11:28.399 --> 02:11:31.479 the Nigerian University Loan Scheme. We can pay it off 2214 02:11:31.520 --> 02:11:34.960 tomorrow and convert that debt to equity on all our 2215 02:11:35.039 --> 02:11:38.279 kids our kids should not have to take a loan 2216 02:11:38.760 --> 02:11:41.680 to go to university. I went to a federal university. 2217 02:11:42.119 --> 02:11:44.920 For the five years on a federal university, I did 2218 02:11:45.039 --> 02:11:51.680 not pay one thousand naira. This is accommodation and tuition 2219 02:11:52.479 --> 02:11:55.560 one thousand call it two thousand and five. I didn't pay. 2220 02:11:56.199 --> 02:11:58.119 And I went to the same federal school that is 2221 02:11:58.159 --> 02:12:00.840 still there in Nigeria today. So why shoul kids they pay? 2222 02:12:01.359 --> 02:12:05.720 Have their politicians expenses reduced? No, So our kid should 2223 02:12:05.760 --> 02:12:09.640 not be taking loans to go to school National sem 2224 02:12:09.760 --> 02:12:12.399 Do they take loans to buy their important cars? No, 2225 02:12:13.159 --> 02:12:15.359 so why should the kids take loans to go to university. 2226 02:12:15.880 --> 02:12:21.039 So this Brazil took their royalties from their oil fields, 2227 02:12:21.039 --> 02:12:25.079 the assault oil fields and took it to only health 2228 02:12:25.159 --> 02:12:30.119 and education only two hundred percent royalties. Google it Brazil 2229 02:12:30.479 --> 02:12:33.159 and they are down the road. So if Brazil can 2230 02:12:33.279 --> 02:12:34.800 do it, we should also. 2231 02:12:34.720 --> 02:12:35.680 Invest in this like this. 2232 02:12:35.880 --> 02:12:39.199 Just when I spokes said, take this money as a 2233 02:12:39.319 --> 02:12:42.279 seed and do something with it. We can't be announcing 2234 02:12:42.359 --> 02:12:45.359 five point four trillion net profit and people are allowing 2235 02:12:45.399 --> 02:12:47.479 not to buy pure water pool can feed doesn't make 2236 02:12:47.520 --> 02:12:50.399 any sense. There has to be real life impact of 2237 02:12:50.640 --> 02:12:54.600 NNPC in the lives of Nigeria. So let's take this money. 2238 02:12:54.680 --> 02:12:57.159 I don't prefer primary schools. If you want to pay 2239 02:12:57.199 --> 02:13:01.279 the school fees for every Nigerian family this twenty twenty 2240 02:13:01.399 --> 02:13:03.880 five is you bring your receipt, if you had a 2241 02:13:03.960 --> 02:13:07.479 child in school, submit a receipt, the government will give 2242 02:13:07.520 --> 02:13:10.960 you a refund on primary and secondary school phe is 2243 02:13:11.199 --> 02:13:15.039 do it. It's going to be a direct dividends to 2244 02:13:15.279 --> 02:13:18.159 Nigerian people that they own an NPC. It's going to 2245 02:13:18.199 --> 02:13:20.920 be a big boost. We're paying so much for for 2246 02:13:21.119 --> 02:13:24.600 PMS with MAD five point four trillion. Take that money 2247 02:13:24.880 --> 02:13:28.039 and give it back to Niger's in one way or 2248 02:13:28.319 --> 02:13:32.359 the other. That's just my own clothing. Total is Kevin to. 2249 02:13:34.119 --> 02:13:40.319 Thank you so much for you know, always a pleasure 2250 02:13:40.600 --> 02:13:42.800 to be here on the space. You know, this space 2251 02:13:42.840 --> 02:13:44.720 has been going on for five years. I dare say 2252 02:13:44.720 --> 02:13:47.840 it's one of the most respected spaces on Twitter. 2253 02:13:48.159 --> 02:13:51.640 Thank you, and one of the most consistent spaces. And 2254 02:13:51.760 --> 02:13:52.840 it's amazing what you do. 2255 02:13:53.159 --> 02:13:58.760 The ability to consilicate conversations, critical economic conversations, you. 2256 02:13:58.840 --> 02:13:59.399 Know, and. 2257 02:14:01.079 --> 02:14:06.800 The consistency you have is married and I'm very privileged 2258 02:14:06.840 --> 02:14:10.399 and or not to have you know been. 2259 02:14:12.119 --> 02:14:16.239 Percent answering questions today on this space, and thank you 2260 02:14:16.359 --> 02:14:22.479 so much for having me. I wish everyone in lovely 2261 02:14:22.560 --> 02:14:26.079 we considering that tomorrow is the first of December. In December, 2262 02:14:27.319 --> 02:14:32.279 compliments of the season and advance. I wish you wonderful 2263 02:14:32.439 --> 02:14:32.920 end of the year. 2264 02:14:33.760 --> 02:14:35.560 Thank you so much that we'll do you're coming in 2265 02:14:35.640 --> 02:14:38.319 and giving off those ask those questions for us. Like 2266 02:14:38.520 --> 02:14:40.720 Kevin said, guys, we're in December. The whole year has 2267 02:14:40.760 --> 02:14:43.520 come to the If you're from Nigeria, the whole year 2268 02:14:43.720 --> 02:14:45.840 has come to December. This is when you count your 2269 02:14:45.920 --> 02:14:49.239 assets and your liabilities and ask if you have made 2270 02:14:49.279 --> 02:14:51.039 it for the whole eleven months. This is where you 2271 02:14:51.239 --> 02:14:55.960 submit your AGM to your shareholders. So have you made it? 2272 02:14:56.399 --> 02:14:58.439 Are you still on the process? You have about two 2273 02:14:58.520 --> 02:15:00.960 weeks the year ending two weeks right because from the 2274 02:15:01.079 --> 02:15:03.399 eighteenth Nijer trust down till about the ten or the 2275 02:15:03.479 --> 02:15:07.079 fifty year, safe travels, everyone traveling. I'm not sure how 2276 02:15:07.119 --> 02:15:09.960 I'm going to do this December with the insecurity in 2277 02:15:10.119 --> 02:15:14.039 the all across the federation. I'm very happy the girls 2278 02:15:14.119 --> 02:15:17.359 in Kevy were brought back, but I've been hearing reports 2279 02:15:17.399 --> 02:15:21.960 of more people being taken being kidnapped is very very sad. 2280 02:15:22.399 --> 02:15:26.039 There's the guy that sends me I don't know this guy. 2281 02:15:26.119 --> 02:15:29.319 He sends me dms and he's sending me dms of 2282 02:15:29.439 --> 02:15:33.079 what the United States is doing in Nigeria. I've asked 2283 02:15:33.159 --> 02:15:35.159 him can I post it? But he sends me some 2284 02:15:35.279 --> 02:15:37.239 stop that I don't want to post, and soon asks 2285 02:15:37.279 --> 02:15:39.399 me what's your sauce? And I can't get the sauce, 2286 02:15:39.640 --> 02:15:42.319 but they look very very real. He's telling me that 2287 02:15:42.359 --> 02:15:46.800 the US is doing overflights over the Borno side. They 2288 02:15:46.800 --> 02:15:49.960 are taking pictures from Ghana and that they are so 2289 02:15:50.239 --> 02:15:51.880 and so I don't want sae someone last day, he said, 2290 02:15:51.960 --> 02:15:55.079 but it looks like things are happening and there's some 2291 02:15:55.279 --> 02:15:57.760 intel sharing. I hope in the end it will bring 2292 02:15:57.920 --> 02:16:01.680 peace to the country. I think I have suffered too much. 2293 02:16:02.119 --> 02:16:04.520 Destiny has got to stop. So we just pray for 2294 02:16:04.680 --> 02:16:07.800 the government. We pray for the government, the states, the 2295 02:16:07.960 --> 02:16:11.199 local and the federal that they can come together, leave 2296 02:16:11.239 --> 02:16:14.960 the politics and keep Nigerian safe. That's really what we want. 2297 02:16:15.039 --> 02:16:18.159 It doesn't matter what who you support. There's just gould 2298 02:16:18.239 --> 02:16:21.239 be safety in the country. People have, people are living 2299 02:16:21.359 --> 02:16:24.079 school to go back home I know if you're aware, 2300 02:16:24.479 --> 02:16:27.119 many universitors have been closed down. Now they're asking spending 2301 02:16:27.199 --> 02:16:29.720 North and little bit, asking them to go away from 2302 02:16:29.880 --> 02:16:33.000 coastals and go back home. There's not a strike, just 2303 02:16:33.360 --> 02:16:36.920 close down because of insecurity. We cannot progress as. 2304 02:16:36.879 --> 02:16:37.959 A nation, no way. 2305 02:16:38.520 --> 02:16:41.479 If our kids are not in school, it's not going 2306 02:16:41.520 --> 02:16:42.159 to be possible. 2307 02:16:42.399 --> 02:16:43.239 Loan or no loan. 2308 02:16:43.559 --> 02:16:46.239 They've closed the schools down, go home because insecurity. So 2309 02:16:46.280 --> 02:16:48.319 I've got to fix that. Thank you so much, Colvin. 2310 02:16:48.360 --> 02:16:50.239 I triut you guys for also listening, and I hope 2311 02:16:50.239 --> 02:16:53.360 I see you guys next week. We'll maybe do our final, 2312 02:16:53.719 --> 02:16:55.360 we'll do our space again and then we'll see how 2313 02:16:55.360 --> 02:16:57.040 the next year it will come. You guys, have a 2314 02:16:57.120 --> 02:17:00.760 great day, have a good week. Week is gonna be 2315 02:17:00.799 --> 02:17:03.200 a fantastic Monday. Thank you so much. Have a good 2316 02:17:03.239 --> 02:17:04.360 day guys, and bye. 2317 02:17:07.920 --> 02:17:08.959 M h m hm