WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:13.359 Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind, where we pursue wisdom 2 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:15.880 in the past between primary and secondary of worlds. I'm 3 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:18.480 your host, Andrew Snyder, and I am always grateful for 4 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:30.600 your company. Today I have a really fun conversation playing 5 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:32.520 for you, But first I want to let you know 6 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:36.000 about a new patron benefit if you've been listening for 7 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:38.560 a little while, or you've otherwise been following me on 8 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:42.719 x or Twitter or wherever, you know that over the 9 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.759 summer I let a course called the Fiction and Philosophy 10 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:46.240 of C. S. 11 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:47.039 Lewis Well. 12 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:49.920 I'd really love to shift into leading these kinds of 13 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:55.159 public studies, making some more podcast content, and engaging with 14 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:58.159 some other independent projects. I'd really love to do all 15 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:00.880 this sort of thing on a full time basis. That's 16 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:03.280 the goal that I'm trying to work toward, and I'm 17 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:06.400 really in an experimental phase right now as to figure 18 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.239 out how to best move in that direction. On one hand, 19 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:11.280 I want as many people as possible to be able 20 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:14.079 to join in on what we're doing, because I believe 21 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:17.079 in what we're doing. I have a heart for public education, 22 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:20.439 for engagement in the humanities, for on my own side, 23 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:22.840 pursuing wisdom and trying to be more human, but also 24 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:25.680 in trying to help others come along with me in 25 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:28.680 that venture as we talk to interesting people, engage with 26 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:32.719 interesting ideas, and read interesting stories together and so on hand, 27 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:34.480 I want as many people as possible to be able 28 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:36.799 to join in on these ventures, but I also need 29 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:39.319 to make sure that I'm bringing in enough income for 30 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:42.719 me to make this work. I've had a family to support, 31 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:45.359 and so I can't spend all this time doing things 32 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:48.239 that I love if it's not bringing in what we 33 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.120 need financially. And so with that being said, I've made 34 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.519 all the content from the Lewess Course available to patrons 35 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:57.319 at the ten dollars a month tier. I have believe 36 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:01.079 that's I think twenty six videos, which are also available 37 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:03.640 through the Patreon podcast feed, and so you can sit 38 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:07.359 down and watch the video, go through the presentation, or 39 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:09.639 you can just listen to it on the go. And 40 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:14.000 that covers nearly all of Lewis's major works of fiction, 41 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:17.159 and so there's content on all of the Ransom series, 42 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:21.159 Screwtape Letters Till We Have Faces, the Great Divorce, the 43 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:23.800 Chronicles of Narnia, and also a little bit on his 44 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:25.879 unfinished first attempt at a sequel to out of the 45 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:28.479 Side on Planet the Dark Tower. And so again all 46 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.159 of that is now available to ten dollars a month patrons, 47 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:34.120 and if we get ten new patrons at this level 48 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:36.319 during the month of November, then I'm also going to 49 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:39.159 make the beay Wolf and Boethius course content available at 50 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:42.439 the same level, and if that in turn does well, well, 51 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:45.159 we'll see what happens from there. But you know, as 52 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.919 long as we can keep a sustainable level of financial 53 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:52.680 support coming in, I would really love to set the 54 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:56.120 entry bar as low as possible to allow as many 55 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:58.840 interested people to come in, because, I mean, anyone's interested 56 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.080 in this kind of content is going to be interesting, 57 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:04.680 and so I love to continue spinning off bigger and 58 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:07.960 deeper communities out of this sort of content. Now, at 59 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:10.319 the time that I'm recording this, we are currently seven 60 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:13.240 new patrons away from that goal, and so you can 61 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.879 play your part by going over to patreon dot com 62 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:18.599 slash Mythic Mind and signing on at least the Tier 63 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:20.800 two level, which is again ten dollars a month. 64 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:21.199 Now. 65 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:23.840 For our conversation today, a few of the participants in 66 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:26.560 the Life Death and Meaning with Beowolf and Bowethia's course 67 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:30.439 have returned to discuss some general highlights from this study. 68 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:33.080 Now we're covering a lot of material here, and this 69 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:35.280 was eight weeks of study that we can pressed into 70 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:39.159 one conversation, and so it's broad level. There's no intention 71 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:41.479 to cover all the material, but I think that it 72 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:44.159 was still worthwhile, still engaging, and I hope that. 73 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:54.439 You enjoy. 74 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.560 All right, So welcome to the was it two to 75 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:58.240 three week reunion of the Life Death and meeting with 76 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.400 Bewolf and Bowethia's Course. I'm joined here by a few 77 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:04.120 of the participants. We had a pretty good turnout. Overall, 78 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:06.479 about thirty people were in the course. We had I 79 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:08.719 don't know somewhere ranging from four to eight or so 80 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:13.759 regular active participants in the live meetings. But basically, this 81 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.959 is just a time for us to talk broad scale 82 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:20.800 about our engagement with these tags, what makes them so significant, 83 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:24.360 and why everyone should read them. And so let's just 84 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:26.120 go around the room here as I have you on 85 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.160 my screen, and tell me briefly who you are, whatever 86 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:34.319 you want to share, and what led you to this study. Aubrey, 87 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:35.439 you you can go first. 88 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:45.120 Yes means Aubrey, I live in Chicago, and I just 89 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:51.680 really was looking for some like something between a book 90 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:56.279 club and a grad school. Of course, that's something that 91 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:01.240 would yeah, really be like a good engaging of course, 92 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:05.360 but that I could keep up with without a lot 93 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:08.399 of homework. And so I think I came across hand 94 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:14.959 around Twitter, and but this is like a perfect way 95 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.399 to jump back into some classic literature and have some 96 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:21.319 good companions to do it. 97 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:22.959 So that's how I jumped in. 98 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:26.680 Good Yeah, I'll hear in that description of something between 99 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:29.560 a book club and a grad class. That's exactly what 100 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:33.279 I'm aiming for. So glad to hear that, all right, Chase. 101 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:41.040 Yeah, Chase, I'm from Texas, live in Austin, Texas. Right now. 102 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:47.480 I have took part in the Lewis study, which but 103 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.040 ifitted immensely from and really just enjoyed it. And that 104 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:56.800 just gave more desire to read a kind of figure 105 00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:01.439 out what Lewis was inspired by. And so yeah, I 106 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.600 joined this class and excited for the other classes as well. 107 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:10.560 Good Yeah, further up and further in, and you know, 108 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:14.000 Tolkien and Lewis were definitely my entry away to really 109 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.279 discovering literature. I'm talking about that before that, you know, 110 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:19.879 my my backgrounds and philosophies. It's not like I haven't 111 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.439 read literature, but it's been more in the was typically 112 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:26.959 described as philosophical study, not so much just literature fiction, 113 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.000 sagas and myths and you know, that sort of thing. 114 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.800 But it's really when I really discovered Tolkien just a 115 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:37.800 few years ago. Honestly, that then just changed the trajectory 116 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:40.120 of my life. And you know, from there Lewis the 117 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.319 natural next step, and then from there, well everywhere else. 118 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.079 It's a yeah, I can definitely sympathize the the uh 119 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:53.000 Lewis wardrobe entry away to all these other worlds. Mariah, 120 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:54.199 tell us a little bit about yourself. 121 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:59.959 Okay, Yeah, I'm Mariah obviously, and I'm from the middle 122 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:05.800 of a corn with Cornfieldville in northern Indiana, so there's that. 123 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:11.439 And I am a master's master's program in philosophy dropout. 124 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:16.160 And I actually found Andrew's podcast while I was in 125 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:19.199 the process of moving to my master's program. I was 126 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.000 finding something to listen to, like while I was driving 127 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:25.240 back and forth for like five hours moving all my 128 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:30.480 stuff to Ohio. And yeah, when I saw on Twitter 129 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:35.839 that he had a something going on with Boethius and Bilwolf. 130 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.079 I was just excited because I am kind of like 131 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:44.439 the person who's in philosophy but has always been interested 132 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:48.680 more in literature, I think. And uh, sort of how 133 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:50.399 I ended up dropping out, I guess is that I'm 134 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:52.319 more interested in literature than I am in philosophy. 135 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:53.759 But that's a long story. 136 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:56.439 So I just I kind of wanted something that would 137 00:07:56.519 --> 00:08:01.079 keep like the intellectual juices flowing while I was in 138 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:02.600 the process of figuring out what to do with the 139 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:06.120 rest of my life. Basically, yeah, that's kind of how 140 00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:06.879 I ended up here. 141 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.680 So so what I'm hearing is I'm responsible for you 142 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:11.240 dropping out of your grad program. 143 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:12.839 No, that happened. 144 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:16.439 That happened a long time, a long time before I 145 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.160 got really invested in well, I guess. 146 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:24.680 And no, honestly, I sympathize with the sentiment there, you know, 147 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:29.759 even though I you know, my primary job is in academia. 148 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:31.560 This is the kind of thing I really enjoy doing, 149 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.879 you know, outside of the institution, just reading good books 150 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:38.240 with people who like reading good books and talking about 151 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:41.080 important ideas, and so that's just what I love doing. 152 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.759 And so you know, I can sympathize with the dropping 153 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:47.440 out of grad school because of your interest, not necessarily 154 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:48.120 lack thereof. 155 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:51.360 I can sympathize with that, all right. 156 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:54.320 So I mean as far as I guess why why 157 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:56.480 I'm here, and obviously I put it together, but the 158 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:00.000 reason why, you know, I was led with this interesting combination. 159 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:05.600 I've never seen Beowulf and Boethius directly paired together before, 160 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:07.960 but I think it really makes sense when you understand 161 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.399 what both of them are doing, especially with this common 162 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:13.919 theme of how do we live a life of meaning 163 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:17.759 with knowledge of the fact that we're going to die, right, 164 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.480 with knowledge of the fact that the world around us 165 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:23.120 is constantly moving, right that the wheel of fortune is 166 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:26.960 constantly spinning. We can't base our identity, we can't base 167 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:30.919 our happiness, our human joy in things that are moving, 168 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:32.679 because well, they're going to do just that, They're going 169 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:34.879 to move, and so you're setting yourself up for despair. 170 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:35.120 Right. 171 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:38.039 That's why people who seem to be at the top 172 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:42.600 of the world, you're successful actors and CEOs and musicians 173 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:45.600 and people who have the circumstances that you know, all 174 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:49.480 of us tend to want. Why they'll still just destroy 175 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:52.399 their lives or you know, just kill themselves out of nowhere. 176 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:56.080 And I think what that reveals is the fact that 177 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:01.440 circumstances just not enough. You know, we all tend to 178 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:03.440 think that if I just get that new job, I 179 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:05.360 get that raise, I get that relationship, I get that 180 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:08.200 whatever it is like, then I'm going to be happy. 181 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.919 Then I'll be content with my life. But the reality is, 182 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:13.840 sometimes the worst that could happen is we actually get 183 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.279 the things that we think that we want, because then 184 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:19.480 we could recognize those still don't satisfy, and then the 185 00:10:19.559 --> 00:10:21.720 question is where do we go from there? And so 186 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:24.679 I think that BeO Wolf and Boethius both do such 187 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:27.720 an important job of helping us to anchor ourselves and 188 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:31.639 things that don't change in the good that's required of us, 189 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:35.200 in the good that is eternal and unmoving. That they 190 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:38.399 both deal with that meaning in a world and a 191 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:41.320 life that's changing, in a life that, regarding our flesh, 192 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:43.279 is going to die. And so this seems like a 193 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.840 natural fit for me. And of course we get, you know, 194 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:50.919 the Lewis connection going in both directions, and that Boetheius 195 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:55.080 is such a quintessentially medieval text in the classical sense. 196 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:59.200 And then with Beowulf, we get the northern spirit, and 197 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:03.559 so it's just interesting how these things can come together. Well, 198 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:08.159 taking just a broad scale approach to wherever we go 199 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:11.799 with this. We're obviously covering two monumental texts, so I'm 200 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:14.320 open to wherever this goes. But I would love to 201 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:18.679 hear about books on Beowulf first and what your first 202 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.679 experience was of reading Beowulf's what did you think? 203 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:23.279 What did you feel? 204 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:26.039 Were some thoughts that you had, whether that was for 205 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.879 this class or even just the first time if it 206 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:32.080 was before this class, And so we'll just keep the 207 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:35.519 same rotation going. Aubrey, tell us something about your experience 208 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:36.120 with Beowolf. 209 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.039 Yeah, I think I read a portion of it in 210 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:44.799 a high school literature class, and I just remember being 211 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:47.320 very confused by it, and so it's like I kind 212 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:51.320 of remember like snippets of Grendel's mother and something like that, 213 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:53.279 and from this course. 214 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:55.799 So actually when I saw that, like this was the 215 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.600 next course that you had coming, I was not interested 216 00:11:58.960 --> 00:11:59.960 because I. 217 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:01.120 Thought, I like that. 218 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.480 I just have a bad memory of really not understanding 219 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:08.559 that and just leaving like confusion in my mind. So 220 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:13.279 so yeah, that was my first experience, and it was 221 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.960 really good. To kind of to have to get to 222 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.840 work through that again and CEO, Actually, that's like there's 223 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.320 a reason that it's a classic piece of literature that 224 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:23.559 we read over and over again. 225 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:26.639 Yeah, and I don't think that experience is unusual. I'm 226 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.879 pretty sure I first read at least a section of 227 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.559 it in high school, I think directly around the Grandel fight, 228 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.519 and that was pretty much it not allowed to really 229 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.000 really grip you or to stick with you. And it 230 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:43.600 wasn't until a couple of years ago, when maybe it 231 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:48.279 was like three years ago. This point when I voluntarily 232 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:51.240 read through it for the first time, very much spun 233 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:54.919 off of my interests in Lewis and Tolkien, and I 234 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:58.200 just instantly knew that there's something important here. It's something 235 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:02.519 that our age, which tends to be pretty ambiguous and flimsy, needs, 236 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:06.120 you know, just the the rock solid conviction of I'm 237 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:07.840 going to do what I need to do right that 238 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:11.320 that's essential, concrete message, abaywel of something that we fundamentally need. 239 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:14.240 And so, you know, I hope and you kind of 240 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.480 suggested this that this experience was at least a little 241 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.000 bit better than what you remember from high school. Is 242 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:22.000 there anything in particular from this go at it that 243 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:23.720 has stood out with you or like you know, why 244 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.120 it's important or kind of whatever you want to comment on. 245 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.200 M M, yeah, I would say. 246 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:32.799 Really that, I mean the thing that you mentioned of 247 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.360 like we we just need to do what we need 248 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.559 to do, but and saying it that way, like it 249 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.159 sounds like kind of a dry duty, and that's I 250 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:46.960 don't think that's it at all. But like viewing viewing 251 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:52.559 what you need to do as like really having like 252 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:55.519 there is a there is a noble quality to really 253 00:13:55.559 --> 00:14:00.240 face you know, face whatever is really a challenge that's 254 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:05.480 in your realm of responsibility and it's not a dry duty. 255 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:10.399 That's how you really live out a noble life. And 256 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:13.399 so that I mean, I've thought about that a lot, 257 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.399 just like in my day to day work challenges of 258 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:21.799 things that are like intimidating conversations or things that I 259 00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:26.879 would really rather find a way out of, but really 260 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:28.639 viewed in the light of like, no, these are these 261 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:32.720 are the things that are in my realm of responsibility, and. 262 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:36.639 There is there there is really. 263 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:42.200 Like a character and like a value in virtue in 264 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:44.320 in facing them because these are the things that have 265 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:48.720 been given to me to deal with and then looking 266 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.039 at the way that that is, you know, taking care 267 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:55.879 of other people in my work setting. So yeah, that 268 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:58.399 that has been really like really just helpful in thinking 269 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:02.320 about kind of my day to day uh tasks and like, 270 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:06.360 you know, having to face face myself in ways in 271 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:07.799 the things that I try to get out of. 272 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.399 Good And I like that a lot. 273 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.039 It really shows that, you know, reading good stories, if 274 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:14.919 you're reading them in the right way, it should have 275 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:17.919 immediate impact on the way that you actually live your life. 276 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.039 If it doesn't, then you're either not reading good stories, 277 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:26.440 you're not reading good stories in the right way. And yeah, 278 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.480 I like you said that it's not just duty for 279 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.960 duty's sake. That Beowolf he's not a Stoic. Now, I 280 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.399 think that there's some wisdom to get from stoicism, but 281 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:38.960 that's not really how it described Beowolf. The northern noble 282 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:42.799 spirit is fueled by a love for what is good. 283 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:43.799 And what is worth preserving. 284 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:46.000 And so yeah, he goes out and does his duty, 285 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:48.960 but it's for the sake of protecting the feasting and 286 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.440 the merrymaking, and you know, in the great meat halls, 287 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.440 it's for protecting his kin, his family, for serving those 288 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.080 who need his service. And so even in the day 289 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:00.799 to day, you know, we're not in isolation that the 290 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.639 things that we do actually matter, and if there are 291 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:06.600 things that are worth loving that we do love well, 292 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:08.399 that should propel us to do the things we don't 293 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.000 necessarily want to do because we're part of a bigger community. 294 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.559 And I think that Bewolf does that really well. It 295 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:17.559 makes me think of the you know, the Pharamere idea, Right, 296 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.720 we don't we fight to defend what we love essentially, 297 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:22.440 not just for the sake of fighting or for the 298 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.000 sake of doing our duty. Cool Jase, tell us a 299 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:27.519 little bit about your experience with Beowulf. 300 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:34.320 Yeah, so, I I think I read Beowulf. I think 301 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.559 in middle school we did kind of like a product 302 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:39.320 project on it and had to do maybe like stop 303 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:43.480 motion and watch like the movie. And I don't know 304 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:46.519 what translation they use, but I definitely I feel like 305 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:48.039 it downplayed. 306 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:49.639 Like religious aspect of it. 307 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.840 And was more it was a lot drier, so I 308 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:57.360 didn't really quite understand it or see the appeal. So 309 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:03.080 jumping into it and this was awesome, and I was 310 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.559 shocked to see like since it is it was like 311 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:14.079 a like a old English myth that it was had 312 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:18.440 that religious aspect put into it kind of after the fact, 313 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:23.400 but in this writing the poet put in, I thought 314 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:26.559 it was pretty cool to see, just like to think 315 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.599 of like King Alfred having read it at the time 316 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:32.680 and then he obviously. 317 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:34.839 Thought highly of it. 318 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.000 By trying to translate it, and so just kind of 319 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:43.079 seeing like, Okay, here's stuff that a king, you know, 320 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:49.359 from so long ago, like found, you know, ideas or 321 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:53.400 virtues and stuff that he could heat qualities that he 322 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.680 would have probably tried to emulate from beowf as a 323 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:07.440 as a king. So yeah, just really appreciated that mirror 324 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:09.839 echoed just a lot of the same things that ever 325 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:10.400 were saying. 326 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:13.640 Yeah, and that. 327 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.839 It does definitely have a Christian framing to it, despite 328 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:21.599 the fact that you know, the story is describing you know, 329 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:27.359 pagan Scandinavia, Denmark and beyond. And I think it speaks 330 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:32.400 to a pretty commonly accepted medieval idea that the pagan, 331 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:37.440 the pre Christian pagan is not necessarily anti Christian, they're 332 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:41.000 just pre Christian. Now, obviously there are elements of paganism 333 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.480 that most certainly are anti Christian, but in the basic 334 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.640 sentiment of desiring to do what is good. They're making 335 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.480 use of the light that they have as God's image 336 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:55.799 bearers who are naturally drawn to that light. And so, 337 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.920 you know, a lot of times there's this popular conception 338 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:06.559 that the medieval Christians just tried to like stamp out 339 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.880 everything that came before them, but it's really not the 340 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.000 case at all. Right, there's a reason why. There's the 341 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.359 reason why we have these myths, there's a reason why 342 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:16.319 we have classical pre Christian literature. It's because the Christian 343 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:18.920 Church thought it was worth preserving, you know, so why 344 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:22.119 such things survived through the so called dark Ages, which 345 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.200 is a term that you used conventionally, not necessarily qualitatively, 346 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.359 and so you know, they really viewed this idea that, okay, 347 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:31.720 the the pre Christian pagans that are using the life 348 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:33.680 that they have, and so to that extent, you know, 349 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:36.279 Tolkien even mentions this in this commentary on. 350 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.759 Beowulf, that you know, if. 351 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:44.960 If Christ in his herowing of Hell can redeem you know, 352 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:49.119 the Old Testament, pre Christian prophets, and you know, saints 353 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:52.759 and patriarchs and whatnot, well why not shill chiefs in 354 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:57.039 as well? Not necessarily definitively, but you know, maybe so 355 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:01.079 it's at least I think it's a compelling way to 356 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:05.759 understand I think pre Christian paganism. Mariah tell us something 357 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:07.079 about your experience with BeO Wolf. 358 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:15.160 Yeah, so I think. Actually, I know when I first 359 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:20.160 discovered Beowolf, it was because I was a total Tolkien 360 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:24.640 nerd when I was like eleven, twelve whatever, but not 361 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:26.920 through the usual entry point. I actually started with a 362 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:32.599 similar ilion and the languages so like super nerd, which 363 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.319 basically meant that I found out that Tolkien had based 364 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:37.400 some of the languages in the Lord of the Rings 365 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.200 on Old English. So I was like, well, why don't 366 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:45.640 I find like something in Old English to read? And 367 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.000 then I quickly realized that wasn't necessarily feasible. But at 368 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.599 the same time, my mom was like trying to do 369 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:56.359 like homeschool curriculum for us, so she gave me an 370 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:02.279 option of three things. It was either nineteen century English literature, 371 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:06.799 nineteenth century American literature, or a courts on medieval literature. 372 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:09.119 And of course, being the nerd that I was, I 373 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:12.359 was like, wholesale, We're doing medieval literature like that is 374 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:16.799 one hundred percent No questions asked. So I did a 375 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:21.240 unit on Beowulf, Piers the Plowman, Chaucer, and there's one 376 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.680 other thing that I don't remember what it was, but 377 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.240 I think, yeah, Beowulf in Piers the Plowman really stuck 378 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.799 out to me. I recommend if you're interested in like 379 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:34.039 other old English poems. But YEAHO, So my first experience 380 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:36.599 with Beowuff I like half remember kind of same thing 381 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:41.559 as Aubrey and Chase. Just I got really deep into 382 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:45.440 the like nerdy word parts of everything and not necessarily 383 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:47.119 did I see like the whole picture and kind of 384 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:50.640 like what was going on, So kind of coming back 385 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:53.599 to that, I really appreciate just like I guess all 386 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:57.559 the poetry that is actually there reading in translation, but 387 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:00.480 then kind of like piecing together the old English being 388 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.400 like this is really beautiful actually some of the imagery, 389 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.000 and then but like how that all interplays with the 390 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.200 like the deeper themes. And I think it hadn't really 391 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:17.880 registered how much it is a poem about death until I, well, 392 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:22.079 I guess, like when I started this trying to get in, 393 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:24.160 I guess when I signed up to do this course, 394 00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:28.319 it was because Andrew had posted the quote of Tolkien 395 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:32.039 saying that like basically every piece of literature is about death, 396 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.680 and it hadn't really registered how much. Beowulf also follows 397 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:43.880 that in so many ways. And I don't know if 398 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.240 I have a lot to add I think to what 399 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.079 to what Aubrey said as far as like the action 400 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:54.480 part of we have to act in a world where 401 00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:58.480