WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:16.000 Hello everyone, and welcome to Talk Nerdy. Today is Monday, 2 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.920 July twenty seventh, twenty twenty six, and I'm the host 3 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.760 of the show Doctor Kara Santa Maria, and as I 4 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:25.519 mentioned last week, I am traveling right now with the 5 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:28.480 sgu the other podcast I work on, The Skeptics Guide 6 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:33.679 to the Universe. We are visiting Sydney, Australia, the North Island, 7 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:36.719 kind of all over of New Zealand, and then christ 8 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:41.119 Church on the South Island and making appearances at conferences 9 00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:44.520 in both Sydney and christ Church. So I'm recording this 10 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:48.079 in advance, and I'm not going to give a shout 11 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:49.960 out to the patrons this week because I don't know 12 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:52.079 if my list will be up to date, but we 13 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:56.039 will continue that once I am back at my computer, 14 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:59.280 so I say we just get into it. This week 15 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:04.439 I had the opportunity to chat with doctor Valerie Friedland. 16 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:08.560 She is a professor of linguistics in the English Department 17 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:12.840 at the University of Nevada, Reno. She also writes a 18 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.519 language blog on Psychology Today called Language in the Wild 19 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:20.599 and did a Great Courses series, So for those of 20 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:22.560 you who love the Great Courses, you can look her 21 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:26.400 up there. She also previously wrote a wonderful book called 22 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.840 Like Literally Dude, Arguing for the Good in Bad English. 23 00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:33.519 But we're going to talk today about her newest book, 24 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:38.599 Why We Talk Funny, The Real Story Behind Our Accents. 25 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.040 This is a really fun one. So, without any further ado, 26 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:48.200 here she is doctor Valerie Friedland. Well, Valerie, thank you 27 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:49.680 so much for joining me today. 28 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:52.200 Of course, I'm so excited to be here in chat 29 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:52.519 with you. 30 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:55.560 So we're going to be talking about your work and 31 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:59.359 of course your new book, Why We Talk Funny The 32 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:02.719 Real Story Behind Our Accents. I'm so excited to have 33 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:06.040 this conversation. I am obsessed with accents. I love them. 34 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:09.520 I find them fascinating. I'm also really obsessed with just 35 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:14.240 like regional colloquialisms and all the different ways that individuals 36 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:20.240 who share a similar language still have subcultures within it. 37 00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:24.280 But first, before we get into the book itself, I 38 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:27.360 want to talk a little bit about you, about your scholarship. 39 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:32.240 So you're a professor of linguistics. Is linguistics usually in 40 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:34.120 an English department, you. 41 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:37.840 Know it varies. Linguistics is usually in whatever department we 42 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:41.919 feel most safe that will survive the budget cut so 43 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:44.719 wry to say it. So typically it's sort of in 44 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:48.879 traditional linguistics departments, they've been separate departments, but in the 45 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:51.560 last twenty or so years they often go on the 46 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:54.479 chopping block because they tend to be pretty small departments. 47 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:58.560 So a lot of linguists have found refuge in English departments. 48 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:00.680 So it is not uncommon for there to be a 49 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:03.960 separate program in linguistics in English departments, but it's not 50 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.520 necessarily the standard either. 51 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:09.759 Gotcha, And so you know, really probably it's important to 52 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:14.560 drill down on what linguistics actually is. How is it 53 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:17.000 different than what most people think of when they think 54 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:19.439 of English or English class. 55 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:21.840 I think that's a great question, because most people think 56 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:23.360 of a number of different things when they hear the 57 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:27.240 word linguist, and it's typically not either the same thing 58 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:31.639 as an English professor or an English teacher, nor as 59 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:34.360 sort of the common folk understanding of what a linguist 60 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.560 is or memes. So first, just to discriminate between sort 61 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:43.360 of the traditional Grammarian English teacher and the linguist that 62 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.639 might happen to be an English department, we're really more 63 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.039 the social science version of someone who studies language. So 64 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:56.400 we're actually interested in the principles, both articulatory and cognitive, 65 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:01.039 that drive our ability to speak as humans human beings. 66 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:04.000 We're not really interested in any kind of prescriptive rules. 67 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.759 So the social rules that get attached over time to 68 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.199 the way that we're supposed to write English, and then 69 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:13.000 often that leaps off the page to the way we're 70 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:17.399 supposed to speak. So the type of experience you have 71 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:20.800 in English class where you're learning about nouns, verbs, and 72 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:23.639 you know those person, place, thing kind of thing. There 73 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.920 certainly is some linguistics in that, because the categories that 74 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:31.040 we call nouns are linguistically real to us. Babies recognize 75 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:34.120 nouns first before other things, so those do have some 76 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:37.759 linguistic legitimacy. But the idea that there are a person, place, 77 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:40.560 and thing, for example, is kind of a description rather 78 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:44.759 than an actual rule of how those distribute, or the 79 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:46.839 rules like don't set in a sense with a preposition 80 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.120 those kinds of things. Those are not real rules in 81 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:53.079 terms of cognitive rules for language. Those are social rules 82 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:56.000 that arose in the eighteenth century. So that's the kind 83 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.079 of thing that you get in English class. What you 84 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:02.360 would get if you take a linguistics course in a college, 85 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:04.560 which is usually the first time you experience it. Is 86 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:08.480 also different than the layman conception of linguist, which is 87 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.439 really someone who speaks a lot of languages. I speak 88 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:18.199 really one, and that sometimes badly, which is English. But 89 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.879 I know a lot about the structure of other languages. 90 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:24.160 So though I really probably can't order a beer in 91 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.680 most of them or do anything useful when traveling there, 92 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:30.839 I can tell you about sort of their relationship to English, 93 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:33.839 the kinds of structures they tend to have, how they 94 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.279 differ where they're similar, What kinds of principles drive all 95 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:42.079 human language, How our brain perceives language. What are the 96 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:44.079 sounds that you're more likely to be able to hear 97 00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:47.319 versus others that aren't. What are most common sounds across languages. 98 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:49.519 Those are the kinds of things that linguists like me, 99 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:52.800 which are called theoretical linguist study. And then, to even 100 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.399 drill down a little more, I'm what's called a socio linguist, 101 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.959 which is a tongue twister to basically say, someone who 102 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:04.639 studies the linguistics of social life. So how are the 103 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.480 groups that we identify with the places we grow up 104 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:12.920 the class we belong to, the nations that we pledge 105 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:16.319 allegiance to. How are those things influential on the way 106 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:18.800 that we will sound now and in the future. And 107 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.480 those are the kinds of things I study. Most of 108 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:24.000 the questions people have about language are really in the 109 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:25.480 realm of socio linguistics. 110 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:31.199 Yeah, it's interesting. It's almost like the psychology, sociology, and 111 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:33.680 cognitive science of language. 112 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:37.879 Absolutely, it's very closely aligned with psychology. So you know, 113 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:42.560 a lot of linguistics stems from both linguistic anthropology but 114 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:45.560 also social psychology. So I'd say it's a really a 115 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:51.319 melding of sociology, social psychology, and also some anthropology. But 116 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:55.319 then some linguists do a lot more cognitive psychology work 117 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.079 as well, so it's you know, kind of an overlapping field. 118 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:02.519 I love it all right, Well, we'll see if my 119 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:04.480 doctorate in psychology is at all helpful. 120 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:05.800 Will see. 121 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:08.240 I don't know, I'm pretty clinical, so I'm like on 122 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:11.240 a one, very extreme end of psychology, but maybe we 123 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:14.720 will see. So what made you want to sit down 124 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:17.399 and write this book? Is it your first or no, 125 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.720 it's not. You've actually written another big book before, like 126 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:21.800 literally dude. 127 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:24.720 Yes, I wrote a book on all the speech Habits 128 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.040 We Love to Hate, which was like literally dude, as 129 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:30.279 you can see from the title what it might be about. 130 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:34.240 And then this was really the book that was closest 131 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:37.040 to the type of work I do in my research, 132 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.120 and also the experience I had growing up because I 133 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:42.120 grew up in the South, which a lot of people 134 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.800 probably can't hear from my voice, but sometimes people will 135 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:47.639 pick up a little trick or two that I have 136 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:51.639 that's southern. But I also had parents that were not 137 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:54.560 from the United States. They were both native French speakers, 138 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:56.399 and so growing up in the South at the time 139 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:58.000 I was growing up, I'm not going to admit how 140 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:00.560 long ago it was, but it was a while. With 141 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:05.240 non native parents was certainly an experience, and it made 142 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:07.920 me aware at a very young age the power of accent. 143 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:10.360 And you know, even though I had no idea at 144 00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:13.839 eight i wanted to be a linguist, I probably was 145 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:17.439 thinking more like astronaut or doctor, you know, something more standard, 146 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:21.279 it did really interest me and fascinate me. The power 147 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:23.519 that the way that I spoke, the way that my 148 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:26.040 parents spoke, the way that I heard my friend speak, 149 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.120 had over the way that we reacted to each other. 150 00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:31.720 And so in college, when I took a linguistics class, 151 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:33.480 all of a sudden, it was like the curtain was 152 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.320 pulled back on why and how, And that really drove 153 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:40.679 my interest in both pursuing linguistics as a field and 154 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:45.200 then finally unpacking that for non linguist audiences, because there 155 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:47.440 are a lot of mes in this world that have 156 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:49.960 that experience but didn't go on to get a doctorate 157 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.200 in linguistics that really wonder why their accents make them 158 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.279 stand out, or why they think of other people in 159 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.679 the ways they do with their accents, or even maybe 160 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:01.480 believe they have no accent at all. And part of 161 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:04.279 that is because we really have a dearth of linguistic information. 162 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:07.759 And so that kind of drove this book. I wanted 163 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:10.320 to unpack it for general audiences. 164 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:12.679 I love that so much because you're right. I loved 165 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:14.799 it when you said there's a lot of mes. Everybody 166 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:17.919 out there has their own kind of origin, and then 167 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:20.840 the culture or the pressures that they had as they 168 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.200 were growing up. Some people were in one place most 169 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:27.240 of their lives. Other people traveled quite often. My own 170 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:30.120 little anecdote that I have to share having also grown 171 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:32.840 up in the South and people telling me all the 172 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:34.919 time that I don't sound like I'm from the South 173 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:38.639 until I say words like insurance an umbrella, then it 174 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:42.960 comes out real heavy. But hearing my parents speak or 175 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:44.759 even my sisters speak and being like, how are you 176 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:47.679 from the same family. I remember when I first moved. 177 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:51.000 I moved from Texas to New York and then to 178 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:54.320 LA and I've been in LA since. I remember working 179 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:59.559 as an adjunct professor at City University, New York, and 180 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:04.039 we had a lot of students from Long Island and 181 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:08.480 one of my students saw my Texas tattoo and she goes, Professa, 182 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:17.840 you don't have an accent at wool Oh, this is currieus. 183 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:20.840 And what's so fascinating about that is it really reveals 184 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:26.159 a lot about the power dynamics behind accent. Because everybody 185 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:29.080 has an accent, we often don't hear our own accents, 186 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.039 and typically the people that don't think of themselves as 187 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:34.679 accented or believe in the sort of myth of non 188 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:37.480 accent are those that are from groups in society that 189 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:40.519 have the most power, and therefore their form of speech, 190 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:44.120 their style of speech, their accent, is the norm, and 191 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.919 that way because they don't deviate from that norm, they 192 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:49.440 think of themselves as having no accent. But if you 193 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:51.720 leave your country of origin and you go to Britain, 194 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:54.960 for example, or of Australia, you do have an accent. 195 00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:56.679 So all of us do. 196 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.600 And there are also little things in everybody's speech that 197 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:02.240 who they are. And I think one of the things 198 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:05.159 that we haven't done a good job with as linguist 199 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.320 is getting the word out that accents are not just 200 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:12.159 about place. There are about anything social about us that 201 00:11:12.279 --> 00:11:16.759 leads to fractures in social space. And sometimes that's geography. 202 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:20.159 So if we're divided by mountains or lakes or oceans, 203 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:22.360 that will lead to differences in the way we speak. 204 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.799 But a lot of the power of speech changing over 205 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.360 time is driven by other types of social distance that 206 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:34.240 forms between us. And that can be someone that is 207 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:38.559 from a different ethnicity and maybe there's less contact or 208 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:42.279 hostility between different ethnic groups and so they will sound different. 209 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.639 Or it can be class. Even in the same location. 210 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:47.159 A lot of times we can recognize someone who might 211 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:50.559 have more working class features and more middle class features. 212 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.720 Those are all accents too. It's not just about geography. 213 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:59.200 It's so fascinating to think about, because in LA, my 214 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:03.320 exposure is wildly different than it was in North Texas. 215 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:08.120 Right in North Texas, all my friends had shades of 216 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:14.320 something similar unless they were sort of their parents or 217 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:19.120 they themselves were first or second generation American. But most 218 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:22.519 everybody who was like multi generation living in the South, 219 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:25.600 they kind of sound. There's like a Dallas sound, you know, 220 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.159 and I was from the urbs of Dallas. But living 221 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:30.279 in LA, it's like got you never know, you don't 222 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:32.399 know where anybody's from. And when somebody's like, oh, I'm 223 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:34.559 a Native Angelino, you're like, what you exist? 224 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:37.600 I know. Yeah, in those big cities right a lot 225 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:39.440 of times, especially on the West coast because it's a 226 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.240 relatively young region, it does feel like that. Even in Nevada, 227 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:45.720 where I'm from, where I'm not from, but where I 228 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.120 live in Reno, it's very surprising to find someone who's 229 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:52.240 actually from here or from here for more than one generation. 230 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:55.080 And you know, I think that's partially just being Western. 231 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:58.360 It's also this sense of you know, urban urban life 232 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:01.120 that's relatively recent, so you know, it hasn't been that 233 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.440 long that most of us lived in urban centers. That's 234 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:09.399 a relatively recent development in American history, and that radically 235 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.399 changes the people we come into contact with. And interaction 236 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.320 is really the bread and butter of accent. So it's 237 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.799 not necessarily the place you grew up or even the 238 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.639 way that your family speaks that will determine the way 239 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.080 you sound. It's the people that you interact with the 240 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:28.279 most and that sort of represent this goal or identity 241 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.080 that you want to have. And you know, you mentioned 242 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.159 that you don't sound like your sister, and we wondered, 243 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.159 you know, how are we from the same family. Well, 244 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:39.919 in earlier research I did with my colleague who's was 245 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.960 at Duke, we looked at the same family that had 246 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:47.840 ten children and we ran different types of statistical simulations 247 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.799 on their speech. And we do this through you know, 248 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:53.639 we use instrumental analysis of their vowels, so it's technical. 249 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:55.919 We have numbers that basically go in there that measure 250 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:59.519 their acoustic wave forms. And we found that they were 251 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:02.679 no so more similar to each other than any other 252 00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:04.000 ten random people. 253 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:05.279 Oh wow. 254 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.200 So while they all had Southern accent, so they did 255 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.519 were more similar to people from the South, they were 256 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:13.960 not that similar to each other more than some other 257 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:17.080 random Southerner, and that tells us that it's not the 258 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:20.159 people you're born to that really have the biggest impact 259 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.440 on your speech. It's the people you hang out with. 260 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:25.279 And so peer groups are really vital in the speech 261 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:28.240 and the accent that we will inhabit in later years. 262 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:31.000 You know, it's interesting too, one of the things that 263 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:32.799 you mentioned when you were talking about how it's not 264 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.840 always you know, the region, it's not necessarily the family 265 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:38.600 of origin, but all of these other influences that you have. 266 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.960 I think if I didn't, I didn't make a note 267 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.279 with my pen, but I think you said something along 268 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:47.480 the lines of like and who you sort of choose to. 269 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.360 Maybe you didn't say emulate, but be near or like 270 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:51.960 a model. 271 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:54.600 That an identity you want to have, the one you 272 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:57.320 want to project, the one that you kind of look 273 00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:01.519 to as something that is a style leader for you 274 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:03.720 is especially what we find. 275 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:06.080 I love it because I think about I had a 276 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.919 partner once and he grew up in a region of 277 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:13.519 Jersey and he has you know, that sort of what 278 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.159 lots of people would describe as the non accent accent 279 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.000 or the neutral accent or the whatever, you know, kind 280 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:23.000 of educated what is it like mid Atlantic. I don't 281 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:23.639 even know how. 282 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:25.960 And we'll get into that New Jersey depends on which 283 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.679 side of New Jersey you're on, whether you constitute a 284 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:30.759 mid Atlantic or more northern accent. 285 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.399 But yes, well he did say that. When he was 286 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:35.720 growing up, he would say things like woulda and like 287 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:36.360 walk the door. 288 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.559 Yes, so he had the mid Atlantic because that's more 289 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:39.879 near the Philly accent. 290 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:42.080 Yeah, and then he had to kind of teach himself 291 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:44.600 to not talk like that by choice, like he chose 292 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.879 to do that. Whereas when I was growing up in Texas, 293 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:51.159 from all evidence I have from my folks, from looking 294 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:55.679 at videos and listening to recordings, I always kind of 295 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:59.200 just talked like this, even though the people around me, 296 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:01.159 well the people are me did too. I'm sure my 297 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:05.240 peer group did, but my sister and my parents didn't. 298 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.639 And so I always was asking myself, did I make 299 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.960 it conscious or maybe it was an unconscious choice to 300 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:14.639 lean into certain styles of speech. 301 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.720 Yes, I mean, it's really an interesting question of how 302 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:22.279 conscious it is. But we don't really actively monitor our 303 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.759 speech that often, especially when we're young children. You know, 304 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:27.679 we might when we go into a job interview, or 305 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:29.759 even when we're at work. But you know, if we're 306 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.759 hanging with our friends at the bar, we're probably not saying, oh, 307 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.919 how am I going to pronounce this vowel? It doesn't 308 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:37.240 It just doesn't work that way. And also it's hard 309 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:40.720 to understand how intricate the system of language is. I 310 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:45.039 don't think generally people understand that when we speak, it's 311 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.759 incredibly rual governed. So if I do something with my 312 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:51.399 ad vowel in one case, I will do it with 313 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.440 the ad vowel in every case. I say with that 314 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:58.120 vowel every word that it occurs with. Typically unlass, I 315 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:01.279 have a very unique dialect region like the mid Atlantic 316 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:04.079 that actually has some even funkier rules about it. So 317 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.599 how would I even know where to put on an accent? Consciously? 318 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:13.079 I wouldn't, So it's probably a subconscious motivation or desire 319 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:15.920 we have to sound like certain people. But this starts 320 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.880 very young, so we're probably doing this as soon as 321 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:21.559 we hit kindergarten and get a peer group. And it's 322 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.519 called vernacular reorganization when we start to adjust our system 323 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.359 towards those around us from that of the home language 324 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.640 or dialect or you know, form our style that we 325 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:36.839 grew up with up to about age five. The other 326 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:39.039 thing I will say is, I don't know whether your 327 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.519 sister is older or younger than you. Older she's older, 328 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:45.920 I would so that's interesting and we don't have to 329 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:49.119 reveal anybody's ages here. But there has been a really 330 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:52.759 big trend in the South, and I'm of the generation 331 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.319 where it started and where we find that every generation 332 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:01.000 since has had less and less of the Southern accent 333 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.480 in urban areas in the South. This is not true 334 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:05.960 of the rural areas of the South, but in places 335 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:09.400 like Dallas and Memphis where I grew up. In Atlanta 336 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:13.839 and Raleigh, massive amounts of Northern immigration is one of 337 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.599 the big reasons why this is the case. But also 338 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.920 just a relocation of many Southerners to those urban areas 339 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:23.519 that kind of orients people there to a different kind 340 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:27.359 of accent that's more external to the South has reduced 341 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:31.680 the southernness of Southern speakers there. And that's Generation X 342 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:33.960 where we see the first step on that road to 343 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:34.880 less accent. 344 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.559 Interesting and I would be considered an elder millennial while 345 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:40.799 my sister would be a Gen X there. But also 346 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:43.240 I think there's some weirdness about where she went to 347 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:45.599 college and then got married and moved to Arkansas and 348 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.000 then moved to New Orleans and you know, kind of 349 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:53.599 probably re developed some of these quirky Southern styles of 350 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.880 speech that I never did that, And it's just, oh, 351 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:03.400 it's just so fascinating thinking about out the uniqueness. I 352 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.160 don't know if that's quite the right word, but the 353 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:11.240 the variables that are obvious to us versus the ones 354 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.400 that fly under the radar, Like there are things I 355 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:19.240 think that we don't even notice about how most people speak, 356 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:24.880 those small variations that just sound generally American or maybe 357 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:28.200 a little more regional. And then out of the blue, 358 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.880 you have people like my partner now, who is from Michigan, 359 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.480 who has the most Midwestern and he says things like milk. 360 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:37.920 Uh, yeah, he has something called the northern city shift. 361 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.039 Obvious to be fair. 362 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:45.079 Milk is actually also you can find it in Toronto, 363 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:49.119 so you know it's not just Michigan or Chicago also 364 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:52.440 has that feature. But he does he also say things 365 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.839 like the word job more like jab I got a jab. 366 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:58.839 I think it does more like sacks sacks, And he 367 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:02.359 says pajamas instead of pajamas. That's a big one. 368 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:05.599 Yeah, well that actually you find more widespread the pajama 369 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:09.920 pajama distribution. But for Southerners it's pajama. And so when 370 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.079 I moved to the west, that was something I noticed 371 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:15.720 a lot of people hear say, I can't it feels 372 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.720 wrong to say it, but jamas, it's. 373 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:21.000 So wrong, that's right. 374 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.720 So if that's your see, this is where your southernness 375 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.079 is there, because that is something that Southerners tend to say. 376 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:29.839 That's you know, people we've moved. So it's not only 377 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.920 something Southerners say now because you know we're contagious. 378 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.799 But it also made me laugh when you said Nevada, 379 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:41.079 because anybody from Nevada or lives in Nevada calls at Nevada, 380 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:43.279 but so many people call it Nevada. 381 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:46.000 If you're east of the Mississippi, you tend to call 382 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:49.599 it Nevada. And in fact, being from the South, I 383 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:54.000 also called it Nevada until I moved to Nevada. And 384 00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.960 I think within the first day of being here, I 385 00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:01.000 was told, under no uncertain terms, if I wanted to 386 00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:03.240 stay here, I would learn how to correctly pronounce the 387 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:05.519 state name. And it's been so drilled into me now 388 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:07.799 that it hurts to say it the other way. 389 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:10.640 That's amazing, do you know I have to I just 390 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:12.440 love the examples. I have to come up with one 391 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.640 that people can tell where I live in two seconds 392 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.480 if we start to talk about traffic, and it's not 393 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:21.000 even accent thing, but it is linguistic in that in 394 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:25.480 southern California, and apparently only in southern California, we put 395 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:28.400 the word the before the freeway names. 396 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:30.400 Yes, yes, say take one, one. 397 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:34.359 Oh one, the two, the five, And it's just I 398 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.559 didn't even notice that I was doing it, and whenever 399 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.799 I'm outside of home, it blows people's minds. 400 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:46.960 Yes, that is a very typical California trait, Southern California exclusively. 401 00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:50.799