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Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to a new episode of You're Wrong

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with Me? David Harsani, senior writer at The Washington Examiner.

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Today we have a special guest, another Hemingway, Mark Hemingway,

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sitting in for Moli. Mark still iced in there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been pretty crazy. I'm still trying to clear

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a section of sidewalk that's pure ice. But I've got

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all three cars mobile now finally.

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Speaker 1: So nice. Yeah, it's finally warmed up here. I'm happy

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about that. I think today let's start by talking a

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little more about Don Lemon. Momy and I spoke about

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him a bit, but he's been arrested by the FEDS.

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I think he was at an event or something, right,

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I forget exactly.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I was at some event in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: The rest of him. Yeah, I totally am not a

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Don Lemon fan. I don't even really consider him any

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kind of real journalists. But I stuff like this does

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concern me to some extent. Right, when you have the

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FEDS going after someone who's embedded with a group that

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that does something that I think is clearly unlawfull and unconstitutional, Well,

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I guess i'd start with, what is your concern level?

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About this arrest as being a journalist yourself. That's a

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good question.

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Speaker 2: I'm writing a fine line here, Like my instinctual reaction

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to any sort of journalists getting arrested is one of unease,

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and you know, I think that applies here too. That said,

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it is really astonishing if you listen to Lemon what

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he says ahead of the the event, the direct action

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thing whatever he tagged along with. I mean, he's speaking

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as if he's a participant and not a journalist. You know,

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there are facts about the indictment that are very troubling

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in terms of you know, he was you know, in

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the church and he was asked several times by the

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pastor to leave, and he didn't. There where he was

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alleged he was blocking people as human his camera crew

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or whatever, we're blocking people from leaving the church, you know.

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So there's all these things where, yes, he's a journalist,

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but was he acting like one in his capacity? And

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the part of the issue with the First Amendment that

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we really need to address is that the First Amendment

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has been perhaps most threatened by journalists in the last

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ten or twenty years, people doing absolutely outrageous and irresponsible

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things that make people in courts want to crack down

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on journalists and the First Amendment, and I think that's

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very much the case here, because if you have a

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situation where you don't respect private property, you don't respect

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you know, trespassing laws, you don't respect, you know, the

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line between you know, being a neutral observer as a journalist,

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or in a full on activist who's participating in like say,

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a protest direct action where you know, and mind you

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this was not a lawful protest. There's a federal law

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that's as you cannot go into churches, then this is

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you know.

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Speaker 1: Concerning Yeah, I argue I have this debate a lot

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with other people, but I believe that journalists actually have

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a duty to break the law sometimes because it's the

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only real way to get your hands on information you're

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not supposed to see. Every time you have classified information

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or something like that, you were breaking the law. Doesn't

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mean you shouldn't that you don't pay a price for that,

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you know, But if you're just going to follow the

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rules and the law all the time, you're not never

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really going to break any stories. On the other hand,

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what story is is don Lemon breaking here. There was

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no real journalistic reason to be in there. There is

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no journalistic reason to stop people, if the allegations are true,

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from leaving the church, to embed yourself with people knowing

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full well that they're going to stop other people's first

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amendments rights. It's a tough one for me, But I mean,

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I can't feel bad for Don Lemon. I don't think

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he was engaged in real journalism. But I'd hate to

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see this be used as an excuse which to go

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after journalists. But let's you know, it's not like Barack

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Obama didn't, Right, It's not like previous administrations didn't. Journalists

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don't care when it's not their team, right. Well, yeah,

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that's the other thing. I mean, you know, I saw

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people bring this up and you know, to crickets. I mean,

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there were multiple journalists arrested in January sixth. You know,

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they did the same thing. You know, they went into

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the Capitol. They were, you know, claiming exactly the same

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thing as Don Lemon. They were you know, you know,

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chronicling you know, an important American event. And I would say, honestly,

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there was far more of a reason for journalists to

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be in the Capitol in January sixth than there was

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for Don Lemon to be in that.

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Speaker 2: Church that day. You know, I'm not saying there aren't

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you know, concerns there. I mean having been a journalist myself.

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In fact, twenty some years ago, I spent a year

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on this project where I was covering anti globalization protesters

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back when that was a big thing. Remember the Wto

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riots in nineteen ninety nine and all this stuff that

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followed on from that. I spent a long time covering

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violent protesters and violent and protests that turn violent. I

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never in a million years would have made that mistake

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in either circumstance where oh, people are going to the

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Capitol right now, I'm going to tag along, or oh

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people are going to this church right now, I'm going

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to tag along. You know, you know it doesn't you

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know take it, you know, genius to figure out that you,

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as a journalist shouldn't be doing that at the same time.

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You know, either we defend you know, the rights of

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journals to do this to the hill in both directions,

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or you don't you know it. You know, the hypocrisy

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here is is really sort of stunning. You know, when

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you look at Barack Obama spying on the ap news

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room and all these other things that happened when democrats

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in the left in power, you know, nobody cares. But

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the moment you know, this happens on the right, it's

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you know, fascist, you know, you know, boots on your neck,

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et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we'll see what happens. I mean, I've seen

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lawyers on both sides of the sides of this, some

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saying that they don't really feel like it's a very

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strong case, and other's saying it is. We'll see what happens.

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I mean, I'm sure the punishment won't be anything draconian anyway.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'd like to know more about the law involved,

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Like I like, I saw a lawyer point to me that,

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you know, given that this was a federal crime, there's

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you know, not only is there not a reason for

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lemen to be there, there's arguably are you illegal imperative

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for don lemon to who have you know reported that

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this was going to take place? You know, this this

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this was not a normal sort of journalistic situation. But

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you know, I don't want to go into it, but

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suffice to say, there was one time in my career

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where I went to someone's house to ask for a

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comment on something, and there were trespassing charges involved to

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ask for comment by going to someone's front door, you know,

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and you know, you know this does this does happen.

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You know, You've got to be careful with this sort

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of thing.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I'm talking about. As a journalist, you

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still have to do it, even though you knew that

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it could be against the law, right, I mean, but

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but you're after a story, You're trying to get someone's

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side of something. None of that occurred.

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Speaker 2: I knowly that I felt like this was a story

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involving very serious charges being leveled against someone, and I

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felt that I had a, you know, in a very

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important journalistic duty to get his side of things, because,

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you know, are the supporting stuff that could be very

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damaging to the man's reputation and career, and you know,

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I wanted to be scrupulously fair. So I'm thinking, Hey,

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go to this guy's house, you know, and you know,

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walk down the driveway and you know, see if you

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know you can get him to comment. You know, it's

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it's a fine line.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to do the right thing, but you know,

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at the same time, the legal protections for journalists in

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that situation aren't as clear as you might think. You know, yeah,

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it's true. I probably could have you know, done any

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number of things to obviate that or you know, fight

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it or this or that or whatever. But you know,

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and everything worked out for me, you know, legally speaking.

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But but you know, it was a real thing that

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that happened, you know, and you know, you part of

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the problem here is that, let's just be honest. Don

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Lemon is not very intelligent. I mean, just full stop.

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I don't want to be like, you know, mean or

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cruel about it, but like, clearly he doesn't think about

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this stuff. You know, clearly he doesn't think about, oh,

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how do I be respectful to other people? You know,

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what are the competing sides of this, you know, argument

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that I need to be you know, sensitive about. Like

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he's just not thinking and that's why he got he

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got himself into this situation. I mean, if this isn't

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dangering the First Amendment, don Lemon has you know, partly

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himself to.

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Speaker 1: Blame, isn't And there's this more moralistic component that it's

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always been around. But you know, democracy dies in darkness,

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probably sort of like the heyday of this where you

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think that you have a moral imperative, maybe even to

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almost be an activist journalist and participate in this sort

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of thing. I think it clouds your clouds your mind

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even if you were a thinking person, which I don't

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think Don Lemon ever has been. And and and this

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goes back to b LM. It goes back to the

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Goaza stuff. It goes back to college campuses and people

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shutting down other people's free speech. Is that you think

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that you know that your crusade is so important that

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the rules no longer apply to you, that other people's

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First Amendment rights don't matter, and that you get to

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do whatever you want to do. I call it protest culture,

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or you call whatever you want. It's it turns violent

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and it's definitely not what I would say is in

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the best tradition of civil you know, even civil disobedience.

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I mean, you're essentially shutting other people down. And I

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see it all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's in astute observation. But what's going

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on with the journalists I think is even worse than that.

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It's because they have they've been totally infected by this

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protest culture. This post Watergate idea that it is good

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versus evil, you know, kind of thing, you know, David

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against Goliath or whatever that empowers them morally to justify

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doing a lot of things that they shouldn't be doing.

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But at the same time, they think that, you know,

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their role as journalists is they're holding power to account neutrallly.

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They think that they are looking at competing sides of

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the issues, and they've decided that there aren't you know,

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competing sides essentially, and not only that, they think that

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they're kind of a special clarity that tells other people

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what is right and wrong, you know, ironically enough for

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you know, the situation where we're talking about invading a church.

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These people think that they are you know, moral arbiters

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for people, and they're empowered to do that. They're empowered

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to say, oh, you pay attention to this side of

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the issue, but you don't have to pay attention to

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the other side of the issue. And the reality is

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that they're losing credibility in the first Amendments threat and

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precisely because they don't weigh competing interests.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, I do think that that.

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Speaker 2: Moral crusading righteousness from this protest culture in mentioned is

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you know, right on target for journalism.

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Speaker 1: How do you think the public will react to people

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like Bad Bunny and Billie Eilish going, you know, speaking

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out against ice and telling them to get out of Minnesota?

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Did they make I didn't really pay that close attention.

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Did anyone bring up Don Lemont at the Grammys that

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you know of? I mean, they see now a folk

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hero or a co care of the elites. I didn't

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actually see anything about Don Lemon.

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Speaker 3: I me.

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Speaker 2: I think the most of just thing about the Grammys

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was that Kaitanji Brown Jackson was at the Grammys, which

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you know, is just you know, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know how to take that.

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Speaker 2: You know, she's at an event where everybody is screaming

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about Ice and applauding and giving standing ovations for it,

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and you have a Supreme Court justice present for it,

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you know, clearly in a sort of an approving fashion.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Never mind this sort of hypocrisy where all the conservative justices,

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you know, their kids wrapped in kevlaren, aren't going anywhere

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because of the threats against their lives. But I really

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think these spectacles and and I don't know, I think

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part of the problem here is we still, you know,

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as much as Trump in the last election really broke

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the media legacy, media stranghold on things, it's still exton

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in a lot of ways. And you see that at

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events of the Grammys, where you know, it is a

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situation where you know that the famous apocryphal Pauline Kale story,

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and like, how did Nixon get elected? And Carrie, you know,

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forty nine forty eight states and I don't know anyone

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that voted for him. I'm the same as sort of

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true in elite media and elite entertainment circles and you know,

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and even on social media outside of Twitter to some extent,

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whether there are no competing interests and so people don't understand,

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you know how you know you could, you could, you know,

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think anything otherwise.

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Speaker 1: Well, what's her I sound like a boomer now, but

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what's her name? Cardi B? Is that the one who's

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uh pro Trump? Sort of Nicki Minaj? Oh, Nicki Minaj?

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So I confuse those two. But the the thing is,

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if you are even nice about Trump or normal about Trump,

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or less than you know, completely unhinged about Trump, You're

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going to be You're going to be. You're going to

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be mocked mercilessly. It is like you can chill speech

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because you know that Noah, I'm so bad with name,

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But who's the effort, Trevor. Noah is going to mock you, right,

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and everyone's going to laugh at you. And so I

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think that that chill speech. But someone pointed out I

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forget her. It is that when Alito's had a pine tree,

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you know, appealed to heaven flag up. That was a

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major story in the New York Times. But here you

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have a Supreme Court justice at a political rally in essence, laughing,

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clapping along, and she's going to have cases in front

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of her that are going to have something to do

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with immigration, for sure, and you know she's obviously incredibly partisan.

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I don't know that she's any smarter than Don Lemon.

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I think that's the problem. Consider her arguments, right, She's no.

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Speaker 2: Alito, let's put it that way. Yeah, I don't know.

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I mean, I think part of the problem the left

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is having right now is that for so long they

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got away with achieving a lot simply through cultural and

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political consensus. And the moment you know there was any

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sort of you know, crack in the dam, you know,

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they just you know, ceased to function, and you know,

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so we'll see, you know, if the twenty twenty four

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election is kind of a harbinger of what's the come,

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or they're going to be able to go back to

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sort of you know, creating that consensus again. It seems

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like they've had some success in the Minnesota issue, to

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be perfectly honest, you know, where I do think a

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lot of normy types that maybe even vote for Trump

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where all of a sudden like, well, I'm not comfortable

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with this, you know, And I saw a lot of

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people saying that on Facebook and other things, where they

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were just straight up, you know, unaware of a lot

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of the facts surrounding the killings of the two people

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and other things. And not to say there's in't a

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tragedy and there's a room to have a reasonable discussion

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about what Ice should or should not be doing. But

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you know, these are people that are just been swayed

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by emotional appeals that aren't grounded in facts and are

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frequently wrong.

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Speaker 1: And welcome to politics, right, I mean, mostly emotional appeals.

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But I think you're right about that, and I think

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some conservatives actually are fooling themselves in the sense that

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they think that, you know, these tragedies don't really affect

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people because they have the facts on their sides. It's

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just not how it works. And I think that whenever

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people are dying in the streets, it starts to get

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pretty ugly. Though in the end, I don't I think

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Trump has a responsibility to keep going here because you're

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it's not even a heckler's veto, I don't know what

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to call it. You can't let mobs stop you from

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enforcing law. You just are going to have to do

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it in a smarter way, right, And it seems like

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that's happening to some extent now. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: So I was just on the phone actually for twenty

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minutes to day. It was somebody who's in Minnesota, in

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Minneapolis right now, visiting, and he says it's insane, like

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he's in downtown Minneapolis and you're walking around like random

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people are asking him questions about like who he is

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and what he's doing there, and like in order to

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avoid you know, Trump's fascist police state, they've created a

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police state of their own, I mean. And he was

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like also saying that it was kind of surprising you

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thought there might be like some sort of dissenting opinion

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or you know, people that were wary because of the

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you know, their businesses got trashed in the riots in

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twenty twenty in Minneapolis or whatever. But it's like, no,

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just like everybody has in this like progressive urban COREUS

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basically on board, and you know, it's really kind of

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sort of terrifying. I do think that's interesting though, that

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like as much as there was a visceral reaction to

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the killing of Pretty in particular, and that was the

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second killing within a week or two, the left, at

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least on the ground in Minneapolis had sort of overcompensated

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thinking they had the momentum on the side when they're not.

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I mean, like they're setting up literal barricades in their

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neighborhoods and like you know, checking people's plates and databases

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like that they shouldn't have access to. And pretty soon

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the Minneapolis police were out tearing all that stuff down

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right quick, Whereas you know, you saw in twenty twenty,

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you know, they had autonomous zones set up in Seattle,

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and you know, even back fall in the same situation

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where antiev It was creating barriers on sidewalks in Portland

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during the ice protests and stuff like that, which, by

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the way, this autonomous zone thing and setting up barriers whatever,

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aside from being like profoundly ironic that you know, they're

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they're setting up borders and checkpoints in Minneapolis to protest immigration,

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this is like a fundamental part of like anarchists left

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wing ideology. I mean, their whole thing is to discredit

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the civil authorities and set up you know, sort of

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you know, autonomous zones of their own that they can

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have some sort of control over and you know, fight

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the state that way. You know, once you can get

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like a toe hold where they don't have any control,

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then you can you know, build your base of support

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from there. I mean, it's it's really crazy that they're

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allowing this to happen. But I don't know. I mean,

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I've seen some polling data since then that, you know,

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even though people were very uneasy with the way that

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two people got killed, people still on the whole are

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very much pro immigration enforcement, and the left is going

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to make a huge mistake if they go whole hog

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on that issue. But at the same time, you know,

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we've seen some you know stuff recently. I don't know

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if you saw the data about the latest data about

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census apportionment. I guess it comes out like once a

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year or whatever. And because of you know, Democrats are

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set to lose something like thirteen electoral votes in congressional

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seats moving from you know, the congressional apportionment from from

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blue states to red states in a couple of purple

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states like North Carolina and Arizona. Like this is an

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existential you know, you know, threat to them. And then

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you combine that with you know, three million people leaving

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the country. Ostensibly they weren't voting or whatever, but for

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why would you be fighting so hard on their behalf.

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It is also true that even though they're not voting,

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they you know, illegal immigrants do count for census apportionment.

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You know, this is going to be an issue that

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they're going to be compelled to fight for. You know,

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it was a matter of survival.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a huge it's I always thought that the

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illegal voting stuff was way over done by the right,

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but the census stuff is huge. I mean, and also

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maybe illegals won't vote, but once you legalize them in

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some way, they're going to vote in the future. Their

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kids are going to vote. I mean, this is obviously

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part part of the Democrats' plan here, but the thing

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that's the problem for them, I think it's just an

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untenable position to say that we don't can't enforce laws.

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I just don't think most Norman Americans view the world

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in that way. And it's not because they hate, you know,

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Mexicans or whatever. It's just that they live in the

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real world and they see that you can't have anarchy.

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Like I'm pro immigrant, I am anti legal immigration. I

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think that's probably the position to some varying extent for

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most people, and it's illegality in many ways. Like my

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parents are immigrants. They view that as a shortcut that

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they couldn't take. Like this idea that just because you

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have immigrant parents or something like, you're going to be

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pro illegal immigration. It's just ridiculous position that Democrats harp

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on that. I just don't think normal people think that. No.

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Speaker 2: Well, and the other things I found the opposite that

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oftentimes the people that are mostly anti illegal immigration are

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the people that had to go through the legal process,

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you know, because it frequently, you know, wasn't easy. So yeah,

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I think that's exactly right. I mean, it becomes this

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sort of like there's no question. And what I do

404
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think is interesting is that the Left has had a

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lot of success dragging federal judges along on this crusade,

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and it will be very interesting if we reach a

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point politically where the judges become an issue. So far

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they have not been. I don't know if you just saw,

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but earlier today Ao Scott, who's one of the top

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literary critics at the New York Times, published this unbelievably

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embarrassing piece about I don't remember, there was that judge gosh,

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I don't remember what the failure was in Mini Minnesota

413
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or not, but he had that, you know, scathing opinion

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that was about the deport the alleged deportation of that

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five year old boy that you know was putting his

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finger in the dyke of the constitution. And it was

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like this incredibly over the top, like absurdly florid opinion

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that was not grounded in the law or facts.

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Speaker 1: And it was dated February.

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Speaker 2: Thirty first, I mean it was, and it was written

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by like an eighty something year old judge who's like

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clearly out to lunch. And Ao Scott wrote this unbelievable

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piece in New York Times or that had like visual

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like cutouts of the opinion that had highlighted things. You know,

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they had some like the New York Times data visualization

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people came in and like, you know, to show how

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how this brilliant judge had weaponized wit and Barack Obama

428
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is tweeting it out or whatever, and like any plane

429
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person can read this and look at this and go

430
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whatever you think about this. This judge is clearly like

431
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out to lunch and insane, and you know, no federal

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judge should be grandstanding like this. And I'm very curious

433
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to see whether or not that's going to become an issue.

434
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Is that that seems to be like the number one

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thing that the Democrats have going for them is they

436
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,359
still have this. You know, they can still claim color

437
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of law for all these delegitimate, illegitimate activities because they

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can always find a federal judge to stand up and say, oh, yeah,

439
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that's that's totally fine. It doesn't matter that it gets

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reversed on appeal. You know, two months later the Supreme

441
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Court steps and and says no. But that's going to

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be a real problem.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the power I think conservatives under well, not

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in hole, but sometimes underestimate the importance of DA races,

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attorney general races, you know, and judges. And I always worry,

446
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because yeah, I always worry that at some point it

447
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breaks and people start ignoring activist judges completely and then

448
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the whole system starts falling apart. And that's always been

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a concern. I know it's been a concern going back

450
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to like Andrew Jackson, but I think it's really pronounced

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these days and dangerous, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But I honestly, what you just said is interesting

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because I think it goes back to what we were

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talking about with the census apportionment, because I mean, I

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think one reason why people are moving from places one

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place to others they want to live in places where

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they know that they can trust the local authorities. You know,

458
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a lot of people live through COVID, and oftentimes the

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difference between having a decent, you know, experience in COVID

460
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and having a terrible experience was having you know, a

461
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local sheriff who wasn't going to literally shut down churches,

462
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you know that that kind of thing. You know. And

463
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what's interesting is you're starting to see blue state governments

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react to this. The last I looked, there was a

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bill in the Washington legislature to change it so that

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sheriffs in the state are now appointed by the legislature

467
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and not directly elected by their local communities, which you know,

468
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is utterly terrifying to me. You know, that's you talk

469
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about your like last line of defense against tyranny, you know,

470
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are you know how your local officials choose to interpret

471
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the law and.

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Speaker 1: Your last your last line is your is your weapon? Right?

473
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But which which kind of I got that comes to that?

474
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 4: Yeah?

475
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I understand non violent. I didn't like. I

476
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,599
didn't like the messaging on guns after the shooting and

477
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,640
other messaging from the administration. It's funny someone is mentioning

478
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,000
like there are New York types in the government, you know,

479
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:18,200
Trump New Yorkers who don't fully kind of grasp what

480
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,400
they're saying about guns and how it comes across to

481
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,880
other people. But I think they've corrected course on that

482
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,160
and now things are better.

483
00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I saw. It was disastrous, you know, But yeah,

484
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,279
I think that's that's right, though. I mean, I think

485
00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:35,359
that's been a problem for Republicans in general. There's a

486
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,400
lot of people that are empowered in publican party that

487
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,240
you know, maybe they're like reactionary New York Republicans, but

488
00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:43,480
they don't speak social conservatism. Things like guns and religion,

489
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:44,759
you know, has a first language.

490
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: You know.

491
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 2: They they just don't understand those imperatives of the base.

492
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,559
And that comes out of times like this.

493
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 4: What it means to be a conservative used to be clear,

494
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:02,240
tax cuts, free markets, Christian family values, and supporting democracies

495
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:06,359
around the world. That's not true anymore, as anyone following

496
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,559
politics sees every day. That's where the new podcast Conservative

497
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Crossroads with Henry Olsen, Senior Fellow at the Ethics and

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499
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,799
these disputes. It leans into them by putting two conservatives

500
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,920
who disagree about an important issue together to hash it

501
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out on the air. Every other week, Conservative Crossroads does

502
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what no other program does, explore conservatisms disagreements without name calling.

503
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Conservative Crossroads is the podcast for conservatives who want to

504
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understand what's happening to their movement. Join Henry Olsen and

505
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506
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hash out the ideas and principles that will decide the future.

507
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Speaker 1: Of the right.

508
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 4: Download Conservative Crossroads from our partner Ricochet or any platform

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which is why all conservatives need Conservative Crossroads. Listen today.

511
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Speaker 1: I dread this next topic, but let's touch on it

512
00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:19,759
for a bit. It's the Epstein file, so called Epstein

513
00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:25,119
files they released I guess like three point five million pages.

514
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,839
I just be upfront about this. I mean, I just

515
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:33,759
I am. I just don't think there's anything there or

516
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:37,000
will be anything there that we don't basically know ready.

517
00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:39,119
I'm not saying a name won't pop up, some kind

518
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,720
of slimeball who still you know, was friendly with the

519
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:44,720
guy after we knew what you know, or after he

520
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:48,079
was convicted. But there is no and it has never

521
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:53,559
been any evidence of any kind of client list. Successful

522
00:26:53,599 --> 00:26:56,319
people don't hang out together in pedophile rings. I'm not

523
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,880
saying that no one is ever a pedophile. I'm saying

524
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,640
that these conspiracies that people have built this is almost

525
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,880
like build your own adventure. I've seen people like, you know,

526
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,039
he's an Israeli spy, he's a CIA guy, he's a

527
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,880
Russia guy, he's uh, you know, an Arab chic Saudi,

528
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,119
you know, a guy like and what's going on right

529
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,599
now online is just I blame the media, by the way,

530
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,559
for because they have blown all their trust. This vacuum

531
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:24,839
now allows people to just go nuts on every single

532
00:27:24,839 --> 00:27:28,000
story like this. And but anyway, that's my view of this.

533
00:27:28,079 --> 00:27:31,839
I don't understand why people are this way, but the

534
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,519
conspiracists are out in full force now. That's just you know,

535
00:27:35,599 --> 00:27:37,119
And don't get me wrong, I think that these a

536
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,640
lot of the people in these files are slime balls.

537
00:27:39,759 --> 00:27:42,200
It gives you a glimpse into their how they live

538
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,599
their lives, and it's really ugly. But I just don't

539
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,359
think that there's any new criminality there that I've seen.

540
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,160
I don't know. Maybe you view it differently.

541
00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 2: No, actually, I mean I largely agree with that, although

542
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,960
I will say, just so we can make this podcast

543
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,720
a little spicy. This YouTube video, we're already off to

544
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,640
a good start, right. It was actually very convincing by

545
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,400
like one of these conspiracy theory types about that basically

546
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,880
showed that John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer that famously

547
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,480
had all the young boys in his crawl space, was

548
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,039
like tied into a guy who was tied into like

549
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,079
multiple pedophile rings that are like well documented in multiple states.

550
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,599
Like there might have actually been like a massive, like

551
00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:27,200
you know, you know, national you know, pedophile ring and

552
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,559
like several different like urban areas where like everybody knew

553
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:32,160
each other and were like swapping videos and other things

554
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,279
like that of like like.

555
00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:34,319
Speaker 1: Snuff films and things like that.

556
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 2: It's just just like, you know, I'm willing to believe

557
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,279
with stuff like that is possible. Right, But in the

558
00:28:40,319 --> 00:28:43,839
case of Epstein, right, this was operating at such a

559
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,039
level that, like, I do not have any issue with

560
00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:49,720
the idea that Epstein was trafficking women or Epstein was

561
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,079
involved in like all these other like crazy things, and

562
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,880
or Prince Andrew and a lot of other other people

563
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,799
some of the other men in his orbit might have

564
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,559
also been involved in this. But what I found really

565
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:05,519
interesting was there was a ton of conspiracy mongering about

566
00:29:05,599 --> 00:29:10,039
xpting on the right for years, and to some extent

567
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:12,960
that was almost justifiable. Right, you have an entire media

568
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,880
apparatus that is aligned against you, you know, and most

569
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,759
of the people that Epstein powered around with were you know,

570
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,960
people that were in terms of their political donations and

571
00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:27,839
their financial interests, definitely opposed to what was.

572
00:29:27,839 --> 00:29:28,519
Speaker 1: Going on with the right.

573
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:30,119
Speaker 2: You know, if you look at a guy like Bill Gates,

574
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,960
you look at a guy like Reid Hoffman, the LinkedIn

575
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,640
billionaire who was visiting Epstein's island and palling around with him,

576
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,000
you know, years after his crimes were exposed, and you know,

577
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:45,319
Hoffman personally bankrolled the Egen Carol lawsuit against Trump that

578
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,759
was absurd for sexual harassment. And he's been very active

579
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:50,920
in democratic politics. So you can see why the media

580
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,240
wouldn't be saying anything about it to protect them. But

581
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:55,799
what I found sort of fascinating was, all of a sudden,

582
00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:59,759
earlier this year, the Trump administration showed like the slightest reticence,

583
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,400
I think, for reasonable reasons to not release all of

584
00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:06,400
millions of documents at once, with you know, all kinds

585
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,039
of random people's names in them, And all of a sudden,

586
00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:12,960
the entire left convinced themselves it was to protect Trump.

587
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:16,759
And it was like the most irrational thing I've ever seen.

588
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,640
Do you think that at any point there was like

589
00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:23,720
sitting in some you know, Epstein file in the Justice Department,

590
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:27,279
there was an unbelievably damning report that Donald Trump was

591
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:29,960
involved in Epstein and trafficking women and all this other

592
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,039
stuff that that wouldn't have been leaked years ago. Like

593
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,519
it just no, Trump's tax returns got leaked for crying

594
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:40,079
out loud, and you think they wouldn't leak that he's

595
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:43,759
a pedophile. And yet I knew all these people on

596
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:46,400
the left that were telling me, oh, no, you don't understand.

597
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,920
You know, it's going to come out that Trump was

598
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:51,039
a big part of this, and you know, here we are.

599
00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: It's incredible the things that people can convince themselves are true.

600
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:57,359
To me at least, Like, the reason we don't release

601
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,440
grand jury files is because they're filled with uncorre operated accusations,

602
00:31:02,519 --> 00:31:07,759
you know, or contextless emails, right and like, or you know,

603
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,680
third hand accounts of things that couldn't be proved. That's

604
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,480
the reason. It's not like the lawyers going after Epstein

605
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:14,960
are like, no, we don't want to get him, you know,

606
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,039
we don't want to hit him with all this stuff.

607
00:31:17,359 --> 00:31:19,799
I mean, it's just like, give you an example. What's

608
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:23,680
the name of this dude? Their brothers Krasenstein or something

609
00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:26,200
like that. So this guy comes out and he shows

610
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,720
a letter, handwritten letter. He says, this is the reason

611
00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:32,440
Donald Trump didn't want us to see this file. It

612
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,920
involves Epstein the sale of young women to sex trafficking

613
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,599
ring by the Saudis. I'm not laughing at sex trafficking.

614
00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:40,319
I'm laughing that this sounds like it's something out of

615
00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:43,400
a James Bond movie or something. But anyway, it turns

616
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,359
out that this claim was made by a woman who

617
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,640
said it happened in nineteen sixty seven, when Trump was

618
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,240
twenty one and probably in Wharton, and Epstein was fourteen

619
00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:57,119
years old. So this is the reason that you don't

620
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,039
release these kind of files. And now you have no

621
00:32:02,079 --> 00:32:04,200
I can't call it mainstream journalism, whatever you want to

622
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,319
call it, filtering through it, letting people know, giving context.

623
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:10,720
Now it's just a free for all for all kinds

624
00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:14,400
of craziness. And I think it actually is distracting in

625
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,599
a way for especially for Republicans. I think I have

626
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,799
a lot better things to be talking about right now.

627
00:32:19,839 --> 00:32:22,079
But now, I mean, I think.

628
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: That's why they just kind of forced their hand in

629
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:25,279
for better for worse. It's just like throwing it all

630
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:27,480
out there because it's like, you know this, sooner we

631
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,240
get this behind us, you know, the better as crazy

632
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,440
as it is. But yeah, it's just been NonStop insanity

633
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,400
since this last batch of documents got released.

634
00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:36,799
Speaker 1: Like I saw this thing.

635
00:32:36,839 --> 00:32:39,279
Speaker 2: There was an Epstein email talking about how they had

636
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:42,440
some security concern they wanted Mike Lee to address, and

637
00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:45,920
everyone's tagging the US Senator Mike Lee, like what do.

638
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,559
Speaker 1: You know about this?

639
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,359
Speaker 2: And it's like, Mike Lee is not an uncommon name.

640
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,319
I think somebody looked it up. There's like five thousand

641
00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:53,799
people named Mike Lee in the United States, in a

642
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,279
country of three hundred and fifty million people or whatever.

643
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,559
And that's the level of idiocy we're dealing.

644
00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:02,599
Speaker 1: With basically at this point in time. And some of

645
00:33:03,079 --> 00:33:06,400
it's interesting though, like Noam Chomsky reaching out to Steve

646
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,039
benn And to talk to Jeffrey Epstein, Like that's quite

647
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:10,279
the pyramid.

648
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:15,519
Speaker 2: There there Noam Chomsky stuff, the Larry Summer stuff, uh,

649
00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:18,079
the Bill Gates stuff. I mean I saw Bill Gates's

650
00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:21,039
ex wife Melinda was asked on air about this and

651
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:24,519
basically was, you know, you know, she didn't like confirm

652
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:26,680
any direct knowledge or anything, but basically was like, yeah,

653
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:27,720
that sounds like my husband.

654
00:33:28,759 --> 00:33:32,279
Speaker 1: I was just like wow. But but none of this

655
00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:38,680
points to any criminality, just slimeball behavior well rich, rich

656
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:40,680
connected people, Bill.

657
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,599
Speaker 2: Gates, you know, the allegation of Bill Gates with prostitutes

658
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:46,400
and his wife basically saying, you know, that sounds like

659
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,519
something he Bill would have done. I mean it does

660
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,119
point to you know, bad stuff for sure. I don't think.

661
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,440
I don't think, for instance, it's you know, bad stuff

662
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,359
that rich guys haven't done since time memorial, which is

663
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,240
not to say that shouldn't be dealt with or judged

664
00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:06,519
or you know, even prosecuted. But it's not the you know,

665
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,920
giant smoking gun. You know, this is all stuff that

666
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,880
we suspected and we're just getting that confirm basically.

667
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 4: You know.

668
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,599
Speaker 2: I saw a great take from I think Matt Stoller.

669
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:19,760
He's like a lefty, but he's sort of an interesting

670
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,840
sort of heterodox lefty. It does a lot on anti

671
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,320
trust issues, and he was saying, like, the big thing

672
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,760
about the Epstein files that is like really interesting is

673
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,559
that how it exposes what Epstein was really about. It

674
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:33,559
wasn't like this grand pedophile conspiracy so much as it was.

675
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,320
Epstein's big job was as a fixer. He knew how

676
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,400
to move money for people. You know, he knew how

677
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,800
to like circumvent the laws on stuff, and you know

678
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,960
that he was the go between between all these rich people.

679
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,639
I mean he was you know, he was the guy

680
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,320
that could do things for you, you know. And it

681
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,239
really exposes a level of corruption at high levels that

682
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,400
is kind of concerning. And the law doesn't apply to

683
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,400
you once you get to be a certain level of

684
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,599
wealth in this country in terms of taxes and this

685
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:02,119
and that. And you have guys like Jeff Epstein, who

686
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:05,679
are the New York financier who are you can call

687
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,639
and they are you know, in a pinch, will drop

688
00:35:09,679 --> 00:35:12,880
everything to help Bill Gates move money or get antibiotics

689
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,920
to deal with his you know, trip to a Russian hooker.

690
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,639
Speaker 1: And that is concerning.

691
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 2: To me, that the law does not apply because we

692
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,920
have weakened institutions and people with too much money.

693
00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: I agree with all that, but what I did find

694
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,679
interesting in that Matt Stolar piece was that he blamed

695
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,320
neo liberalism for it. It's like proof that you could

696
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,159
make the Epstein files whatever you want, Like if we

697
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:39,840
had a socialistic government that he wants, we wouldn't have

698
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,320
corruption as a real stretch, I though, or we wouldn't

699
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,000
have people like this is a real stretch, but I

700
00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:46,039
get what you're saying. Yeah, for sure, Well he gives

701
00:35:46,159 --> 00:35:49,079
us a glimpse into what type of people operate on that,

702
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:50,159
you know, in that strata.

703
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: Explicitly compared it to how the Soviet Union operated, you know,

704
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,800
and it's late stages or whatever. There were always guys

705
00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:00,519
whose factories didn't have to worry about getting they needed

706
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:02,719
from the government because they had the money and the

707
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,079
connections or whatever to make it happen, whereas there were

708
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:07,599
you know, people starving at the same time, and we

709
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:09,199
don't want to be heading toward that.

710
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right.

711
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: I mean I would say that I would blame neoliberals,

712
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:18,119
not because neoliberalism itself is necessarily wrong, but just it

713
00:36:18,159 --> 00:36:20,840
was a certain class of people that used, you know,

714
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,800
things like a big, big problem with the big validation.

715
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,760
The Trump era, I would say is that, you know, look,

716
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,840
I'm free trade, you're pro free trade, and Trump comes

717
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,519
along starts talking about tariff some of these other things

718
00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:34,519
that I'm a little nervous about. But Trump was right

719
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:37,840
about one thing, and in terms of neoliberalism, was neoliberalisms

720
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,480
sold us a bill of goods on a lot of stuff,

721
00:36:39,519 --> 00:36:41,840
Like a lot of quote unquote free trade agreements we

722
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,960
had were really like thousand page multilateral agreements with you know,

723
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,559
loopholes you could drive, you know, the one hundred and

724
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:50,519
first airborne through you know. Things that we were told

725
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:52,360
were free trade were not free trade. Things that we

726
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,719
were told were this were not that, you know, And

727
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,400
that's where I think the neoliberalism problem sort of came in.

728
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,840
It was basically a group of elites telling people they

729
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,639
were making the world fairer, more global, these other things,

730
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,559
when in fact they were raking everything to benefit them,

731
00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:09,280
as you know, an elite class.

732
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's like it reminds me of when people

733
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,000
are like, well those priests were pedophiles, So now I'm

734
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,840
not a Catholic anymore, you know, or I hate I

735
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,840
hate Christianity. Well there are bad actors in all systems,

736
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,000
so or like free trade deals were terrible and they

737
00:37:25,039 --> 00:37:27,840
aren't really free. So now I'm going to become a protectionist,

738
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,199
like the opposite of this thing that I supposedly am

739
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,800
mad that we didn't do. You know, it's like that

740
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,400
kind of logic that bugs me about people who complain

741
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,400
about that. But of course I agree. I mean, I

742
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,559
would love to see free trade deals that are I

743
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:42,800
would love to see no free trade deals. I would

744
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,039
like to just have people voluntarily exchanging goods all they want.

745
00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:48,559
But that's a you know, that's never going to happen.

746
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,559
So I'd like to see a page long free trade agreement.

747
00:37:51,679 --> 00:37:54,639
And honestly, Trump talks a lot about tariffs, and obviously

748
00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:58,719
I am against almost all tarrifts, but a lot of

749
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,280
the agreements he made it actually fixed. You know, he's

750
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,719
fixed some agreements. I think we're poor, poor and done

751
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,079
better for us. So it's a it's a mixed bag.

752
00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 2: For Trump has explicitly argued at times that the point

753
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,519
of tariffs is to basically like get people to the

754
00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:15,239
table so you can get a fairer trade deal, uh,

755
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,880
you know, a better trade deal. You know, I'm not

756
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,000
sure how it's worked out in practice, to put it mildly,

757
00:38:22,039 --> 00:38:24,519
but I you know, I approve of the logic, and

758
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:27,159
I certainly feel like, you know, part of the reason

759
00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:29,519
why we ended up with Trump is we got stuck

760
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:32,320
with this sort of system of you know, set up

761
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,280
by global elites that is inherently unfair in so many ways.

762
00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:38,840
And Trump was the first guy that came out that said, yeah,

763
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,679
I participated in the system, and I can tell you

764
00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:42,719
exactly how crooked it is. And I know because I

765
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,800
was writing the checks to make it crooked in order

766
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,320
to benefit myself, because that was the only way you

767
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,719
could do business. And that argument was like super powerful

768
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,320
and appealing. And you know, hence the fact that Dave

769
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,199
Chappelle has an entire like comedy routinement is basically just that.

770
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, yeah, economic populism is popular in Republicans.

771
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,199
Weren't embracing it at all the Democrats to some extent. Now,

772
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,199
you know, I don't know if things have been flipped upside down. Uh.

773
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:13,360
Last political topic I want to touch on was just Iran.

774
00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:19,480
We've sent, We've sent, as Trump said, an armada over

775
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,840
there to the to the Gulf, and Steve Whitcoff's there,

776
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,039
I think, with others negotiating or about to negotiate with Iran.

777
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:30,960
And my position on this is that Iran always does

778
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,760
this whenever they get boxed into a corner, whenever there's

779
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,519
a called a revolution in a sense in their country,

780
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:43,280
they engage in negotiations, drag it out, maybe sign a deal.

781
00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:49,199
Never abide by whatever they sign, keep funding proxies, causing

782
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,440
problems for everyone. And frankly, you know, I am not

783
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:55,239
a neocon, but I think that Trump promised these protesters

784
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,559
or egg them on in a way to to to

785
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,519
continue what they were doing, and that we they deserve

786
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:03,599
our help. They don't deserve for us to give the

787
00:40:03,679 --> 00:40:07,599
regime a lifeline and to solidify their powers. So I'm

788
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:09,559
saying that, I don't know. Maybe Trump is just waiting

789
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:13,000
to get pieces in place to do something militarily. I

790
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,840
don't know, but I am worried. I don't trust Steve Wikoff.

791
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,119
I know others do when it comes to this sort

792
00:40:19,119 --> 00:40:22,039
of thing, and so I'm worried that we're just going

793
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:24,000
to go back to what it was. And I realized

794
00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:27,599
it's a huge problem to overcome what happens after regime change,

795
00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:30,599
et cetera. I don't want American boots on the ground, really,

796
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,000
So I don't know what. I don't know what your

797
00:40:33,039 --> 00:40:34,320
take is on what's been going on.

798
00:40:34,679 --> 00:40:37,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, In fact, I think right before I hopped on

799
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:41,400
this podcast, there was a situation where the US Navy

800
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,000
had to like shoot down an Iranian drone in the

801
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,800
Strait of horror moves that was threatening it. So tensions

802
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,559
are still very high. I um, like you, I have

803
00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:55,159
some mixed feelings about this. I mean, if the current

804
00:40:55,199 --> 00:40:57,840
Iranian regime were to fall and we were to get

805
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:03,719
a you know, more secular, you know, pro Western regime

806
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,960
in Iran, it would be the biggest geopolitical earthquake since

807
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,039
the fall of the Berlin Wall, There's just no question.

808
00:41:10,599 --> 00:41:15,719
And you combine that with regime change in Venezuela, you know,

809
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,119
I mean, it would be just I mean, Russia and

810
00:41:18,199 --> 00:41:22,039
China would be screwed in a really major way. So

811
00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:28,159
for someone who is very wary of regime change, like

812
00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:31,039
I am, like I see the geopolitical logic here and

813
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,280
its urgent, need you know, handicapping China this way would

814
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:42,719
be like really truly massive and I would be delighted

815
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,920
to see that. But at the same time, you know,

816
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,159
we've seen, you know, how many times things can go

817
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,599
totally wrong when you engage in regime change for the

818
00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:54,880
sake of regime change. I think the Trump administration is

819
00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:56,920
aware of this, and they've been smart about it. Like,

820
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,239
for instance, even though there are definitely a lot more

821
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,320
pro Western figures in Venezuela. You know, they kept the

822
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:10,119
number two person in charge, I forget her name, uh,

823
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,519
but simply because they had judged that the pro Western

824
00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:16,639
pro democracy people that have you know, were major agitators

825
00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:19,239
in the country were not did not have the basis

826
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,239
support within the military and other things to keep ordering

827
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,440
the country and hopefully they can slowly move things toward

828
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,079
democracy and elections to a point where you know, they

829
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:31,400
can actually empower people like that. But you know, they

830
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,159
weren't just gonna, you know, turn the country into chaos.

831
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:36,559
You know, we saw, like I'm you know, we saw

832
00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:39,599
what happened in Libya with the bomb administration, where you know,

833
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,039
Hillary Clinton led the charge to you know, basically kill

834
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,239
more Market Offye for some really shady and possibly corrupt reasons.

835
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,079
I might add there were people around her that were

836
00:42:51,079 --> 00:42:54,800
like tied into private military companies that had like contracts

837
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,639
about taking care of things in Libya and all sorts

838
00:42:57,679 --> 00:42:59,440
of stuff. So I think I really doubt her motives.

839
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,079
And you know, as much as I hated more Markedafi

840
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:04,960
and thought it was a bad guy. Ever since Maremarket

841
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,039
Afis was you know killed, Libya has been a completely

842
00:43:08,039 --> 00:43:09,800
failed state. It is the conduit of most of the

843
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,320
illegal immigration that is flooding from North Africa into Europe,

844
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,840
and you know there are open air slave markets in

845
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,360
the place. I mean, it was much better under Kadafi

846
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,159
than it is now. It's crazy as that sounds, and

847
00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:23,920
you don't certainly want a similar situation in the country

848
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,119
like Iran, where you know, you decapitate the current leaders

849
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:30,960
and somehow you get an even more brutal military dictatorship

850
00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:34,639
or something like that, and you need to proceed very

851
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,320
very carefully. But I hope they have a plan, and

852
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,440
I hope they're successful at you know, getting somebody else

853
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,320
to run that country for the first time in forty

854
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,239
seven years or whatever it's been.

855
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: I think of Venezuela, you have what would be a

856
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:54,400
rational actor to some extent now, you know, or self

857
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,800
interested actor, so you can pressure them to reform things

858
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:02,199
and so on. You're dealing with Shia twelvers, apocalyptic cultists

859
00:44:02,199 --> 00:44:04,280
took over a country. I just don't think that you

860
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,559
can do the same kind of pressure from outside to

861
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,519
make them reform stuff. And I agree, I don't know

862
00:44:10,559 --> 00:44:13,199
how things would turn out, but we can. I think

863
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,679
both agree. Iran is not Libya, right I mean, it

864
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,639
is a much more advanced society with different sorts of

865
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:24,559
people there, and there is organic uprisings, unlike in Iraq

866
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,480
or Afghanistan, where you had no uprising, where we force

867
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:29,880
people into democracy something they didn't want. And I'm not

868
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,599
even saying that they'll be democracy in Iran. I just

869
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:39,039
don't see how there can be a more theologically violent

870
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:42,960
group that takes over. It might be a military dictatorship.

871
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,000
I don't know, but I prefer a military dictatorship to

872
00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:52,079
what's going on now because military dictator dictatorships can generally

873
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:56,599
evolve into something better. So I take all the things

874
00:44:56,599 --> 00:45:01,400
you said, I think that Trump was then Trump should

875
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,360
not have said keep going, We're coming to help you.

876
00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:06,639
Reminds me a little bit, just because of my personal

877
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,480
family history of you know, at Hungary and nineteen fifty six,

878
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,239
where the Americans sort of egged on too Hungarian revolutionaries,

879
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,280
but help never came even though they thought it was.

880
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:17,000
And obviously the United States was not going to get

881
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,960
into a world war over Hungary. But this is different.

882
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,679
There is no world war, and like you said, making

883
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:30,239
having you ran become even just less aggressive as far

884
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,679
as exporting its violence, all over the region would be

885
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,559
just a massive change in the world for the good.

886
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:39,039
I think.

887
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 2: So, yeah, we're taking on Iran is at the center

888
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,440
of so many problems, like you know, I mean, they

889
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,320
are obviously funding a lot of you know, fumbling, They're

890
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:48,800
con to it for a lot of oil and other

891
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,360
things for Russia and China. They are the you know,

892
00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:56,119
leading state sponsor of terrorism, you know, in the world.

893
00:45:56,679 --> 00:46:00,920
You know, getting rid of Iran would immediately take care

894
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,239
of israel security problems. You know, it just it would

895
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,039
fix so many things that it's it's so tempting. But

896
00:46:09,199 --> 00:46:11,559
at the same time, there's always been this like blood

897
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:14,719
lust in the American foreign policy establishment that I don't

898
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,039
think is you know, particularly thought through. You know, remember

899
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:22,239
John McCain famously singing, you know, bomb bomb, bomb ran

900
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,000
or whatever like that hasn't come out in very intelligent ways.

901
00:46:26,039 --> 00:46:30,760
And I want them to do this intelligently so and

902
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,920
I want them to do it carefully for sure.

903
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 1: I mean, with foreign policy, there's there's no surefire formula. Ever,

904
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,039
you never know what's going Iran is a really diverse place.

905
00:46:41,079 --> 00:46:43,519
I think around could be gang numbers wrong, but maybe

906
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:46,079
forty percent of people there are not of Persian descent.

907
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:49,119
There's Kurds, there's Arabs, there's you know, there are a

908
00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:51,440
lot of different people there, and that could get ugly.

909
00:46:51,559 --> 00:46:54,800
So obviously it's a concern.

910
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 3: How many people's health insurances cost more than their mortgage.

911
00:47:03,559 --> 00:47:06,360
The watch Dout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski.

912
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,280
Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and

913
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,920
the economy and how it affects your wallet. Some Americans

914
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,480
are paying more for the health insurance than their mortgage.

915
00:47:14,519 --> 00:47:17,039
And what happened? What if we all just stopped paying

916
00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:20,119
for health insurance? Will that force doctors to lower costs?

917
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,280
Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street,

918
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,519
it's affecting you financially.

919
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:24,119
Speaker 1: Be informed.

920
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:26,039
Speaker 3: Check out the watch dot on Wall Street podcast with

921
00:47:26,119 --> 00:47:29,800
Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

922
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 1: Ayway, let's talk about culture. Yes, do you have anything

923
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,320
there watched recently?

924
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 2: You know, I just watched rewatched, I hadn't seen it

925
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,599
in a long time. To Live and Die in La Oh. Yeah,

926
00:47:45,639 --> 00:47:46,920
William Dafoe, maybe.

927
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,679
Speaker 1: Williem Dafoe's and William L.

928
00:47:49,679 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 2: Peterson, who's like this fantastic eighties actor who just was

929
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,920
totally underutilized for some reason. He's just absolutely fabulous in

930
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,639
a couple of movies in the eighties. He was also

931
00:47:58,679 --> 00:48:01,519
in Michael Man's Manhunter, which was the Silence of the

932
00:48:01,559 --> 00:48:02,559
Lambs prequel.

933
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:07,599
Speaker 1: Where Brian Cox plays plays animal elector. And uh, he

934
00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:09,800
was in Thief, which was great, and that's also Michael Mann.

935
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:15,119
I think, right he James Cohn was in Thief was women. Yeah,

936
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:16,639
I think he was a I think he was like

937
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:17,559
a partner or something.

938
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 2: Anyway, Oh okay, well anyway, so obviously I'm a sucker

939
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,639
for these things in the eighties I was young. In fact,

940
00:48:23,639 --> 00:48:26,280
I was just gonna mention Thief because Michael Man's Thief

941
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,679
kicked off this whole like uh gen mini genre of

942
00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:34,039
we call them like uh, driving a night at l

943
00:48:34,119 --> 00:48:39,000
A in LA movies, right, like because of Michael Mann.

944
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,320
Like now, anytime there's an action movie with a scene

945
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,159
at night, they have water trucks to wet down the streets. Yeah,

946
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,440
they all reflect the light or whatever when you're driving

947
00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:52,239
and Winim Franklin is just a brilliant director, you know. Obviously,

948
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,480
to said, he kind of wanted to enter this this

949
00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:59,159
sort of genre. It's an interesting movie, Like Willem Defoe

950
00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:03,119
plays this counterfeiter that's being chased by a couple of

951
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:06,119
secret service agents, being one of them being played by

952
00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:10,440
willimill Peterson, this other eighties character actor whose name totally

953
00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:12,920
escapes me, and he ends up killing his partner and

954
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,920
he goes on this like sort of revenge crusade to

955
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,000
like get the guy. But the William the criminal is

956
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,320
also like, aside from being a psychopath, is also like

957
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,519
an artist, and there's always like weird scenes involving modern

958
00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:24,519
dance and other things.

959
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: But Willim Freaking's such a brilliant.

960
00:49:26,639 --> 00:49:29,599
Speaker 2: Director, and the film looks so good. It's like such

961
00:49:29,599 --> 00:49:32,719
an enjoyable film to watch. The soundtrack is by Wang Chung,

962
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,320
so that this really like eighties like new wave soundtrack

963
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,119
plus all the driving and night stuff.

964
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: My memory of that movie is like a really long

965
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,400
episode of Miami Vice maybe back kind of like aesthetic

966
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,559
to it and very similar, you know, clearly, yeah, you know.

967
00:49:47,559 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: It might even have been an influence on Michael Mann obviously,

968
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,639
who kind of invented the genre in that respect. But

969
00:49:54,159 --> 00:49:56,920
so anyway, will I really like William Freakin, and I

970
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,679
just want to tell a quick story about Wayne Frequin.

971
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: So William Creed Freakin, very famous director.

972
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 2: He did, you know, the French Connection and The Exorcist

973
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,039
and a bunch of other great movies. What was the

974
00:50:06,599 --> 00:50:09,199
remake of the French film about the You Have to

975
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,559
Carry the Dynamite in the Trucks through the Jungle.

976
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 1: Sorcerer Y Sorcerer, which was which was expected to be

977
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,440
this huge hit and was overshadowed I think by like

978
00:50:18,639 --> 00:50:20,079
Star Wars and Jaws and all that.

979
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:24,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's such a great movie. Anyway, I was

980
00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:27,039
listening to this podcast. Freakin died a couple of years ago,

981
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,159
but I was listening to this podcast, very popular film podcast,

982
00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:33,159
where he was he was being interviewed and it's you know,

983
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:38,679
the podcast is is the host is a film director.

984
00:50:39,039 --> 00:50:40,280
I can't remember his name. What's the name of the

985
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,599
guy that directed Gremlins? He's anyway, he's a well known director.

986
00:50:43,639 --> 00:50:47,039
And then this other screenwriter and they're both typical Hollywood

987
00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:50,159
lefties or whatever. And somehow politics came up, and you know,

988
00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:54,159
Trump had recently been elected or something, and William freaking like,

989
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:57,760
as soon as they started mentioning politics, Willim freakin is like, now, now,

990
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,599
now let's not go down this road of attacking Trump,

991
00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:02,400
you know, and let's give the guy a chance or whatever.

992
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,639
And the other hoster just gobsmacked it. This Hollywood legend

993
00:51:05,679 --> 00:51:08,480
that they all worship is literally telling them to cool

994
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,280
their jets on criticizing Trump for the sake of criticizing Trump.

995
00:51:11,559 --> 00:51:14,280
And it was like gobsmacked to hear this, And so

996
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,000
I tweeted about it, and I immediately got a call

997
00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:21,920
from a Hollywood screenwriter friend of mine who's been around

998
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,559
a long time. And there's a lot of people's just

999
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:27,480
say the guy's legit, and and I know him because

1000
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:30,360
he's also like a conservative, and he was like, oh, yeah,

1001
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,239
uh freaking big conservative. Yeah no, I'm like, I would

1002
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,199
not surprise me the slightest if he voted for Trump.

1003
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,320
I was like, so, anyway, if I'm telling tails out

1004
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,079
of school and freaking's of state is going to go

1005
00:51:41,159 --> 00:51:43,480
ballistic when they hear this, But like that's.

1006
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: What I was told.

1007
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 2: So, you know, and when you look at the eighties

1008
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,639
action movie, it's ayesthetic, you know, it would make sense.

1009
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: You know.

1010
00:51:49,119 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: It was just a very law and order, let's get

1011
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,159
the criminal kind of thing.

1012
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, his movies are very Uh, why did to say

1013
00:51:57,519 --> 00:51:59,880
masculine them thinking about the movie Cruising, which is a

1014
00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:02,760
incredibly disturbing and people should not watch it. But it

1015
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:08,679
is I think a really well made, dark and affecting movie, right,

1016
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,360
Like Cruising is no joke, but.

1017
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 2: You know it's kind of a reactionary commentary on sexuality,

1018
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:14,800
is it not?

1019
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah? Not it is? It is it is?

1020
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,320
I uh wait, you have anything else there?

1021
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,639
Speaker 2: I was to say, MOLLI and I've been watching The

1022
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,760
Night Man, the second season of the Night Manager.

1023
00:52:28,119 --> 00:52:30,639
Speaker 1: We've discussed this and I think that ten year gaps

1024
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,639
between shows are not okay. Who's just going to say?

1025
00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 2: This is kind of crazy? Like I had totally forgotten

1026
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,519
about this and all of a sudden they were promoting

1027
00:52:38,519 --> 00:52:41,039
It's got a good cast. It's really sickly done.

1028
00:52:41,159 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: You know.

1029
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 2: I don't have anything to say about it other than

1030
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,960
it's it's better than average and enjoyable. Yeah, it's not

1031
00:52:46,039 --> 00:52:46,880
remarkable either.

1032
00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't watched it yet. I will, John lecare,

1033
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:58,320
I'll usually usually take it in. I watched a documentary

1034
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:03,159
called Miracle the Boys of eighty, which is another documentary. Yeah,

1035
00:53:03,199 --> 00:53:04,960
on I didn't watch it, by sorry, I saw it

1036
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:09,000
listed it was interested. Yeah, miracle on ice, the hockey team,

1037
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,400
which was massively important in my life. I was ten

1038
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,280
years old when it happened. I was just like so

1039
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,559
into it for me as a kid, and I'm probably

1040
00:53:18,639 --> 00:53:22,559
just romanticizing everything. That's when like the Reagan era started,

1041
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:24,760
even though he wasn't present yet, and like people started

1042
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,559
flying flags and everyone loved their country again and all

1043
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:29,559
of that. And I'm sure that it wasn't that simple.

1044
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,639
But this one's really good. I think it's the better,

1045
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:34,480
the best one I've seen. First of all, they bring

1046
00:53:34,519 --> 00:53:36,880
back all a lot of the players, and it's interesting

1047
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,559
to they get to see footage they'd never seen. It's

1048
00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:42,840
just interesting to hear their stories. But also it talks

1049
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,760
a lot about the political atmosphere of the culture, and

1050
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,480
not in just like this superficial way they usually do,

1051
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,280
but as how, a lot of people were just really

1052
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,039
looking for some reason to like America again, you know,

1053
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:58,519
and this gave them that reason. And obviously I'm a

1054
00:53:58,519 --> 00:54:03,079
lifelong hockey fan and it's just a huge, huge, you know,

1055
00:54:03,159 --> 00:54:04,920
part of my young life, and I was. I just

1056
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,960
think it's really well done. So I recommend it highly

1057
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,480
to people my age, but to everyone. Yeah, I think

1058
00:54:11,519 --> 00:54:14,440
the Kurt Russell movie is is miracle.

1059
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 2: The miracle that they made out of this and so

1060
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,239
is simultaneously one of the greatest sports films ever made.

1061
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,320
It's acknowledges one of the greatest sports films ever made,

1062
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,360
and also underrated. Like I feel like people don't talk

1063
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,320
about that film quite as much as they would talk

1064
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,159
about Hoosiers or other classic sports films. And it's so

1065
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,840
well done. I mean, you know, talk about a movie

1066
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,199
you could like show the whole family and you know what,

1067
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,800
you make them, you know, cheer for America, and it's

1068
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,559
just so well done. The locker room speech, Kurt Russell's fantastic.

1069
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,400
It's it's just's great. It's my favorite sports movie.

1070
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 1: I watch it like once a year, make make my

1071
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,760
family members watch it begrudgingly watch it with me. But

1072
00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:54,360
the h Yeah, the scene where he's always Herb Brooks,

1073
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,639
so it's Kurt Russell plays is always asking them where

1074
00:54:56,639 --> 00:54:58,159
that who they play for? In the in the in

1075
00:54:58,199 --> 00:55:00,199
the hockey players are like University of Men is so,

1076
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,159
you know Boston And then finally one says, you know,

1077
00:55:03,199 --> 00:55:05,400
I played for the USA, and I'm like, yeah, I

1078
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:09,920
mean that is like such a great moment. And then

1079
00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:13,559
I Netflix. I had all has all the James Bond movies, right,

1080
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:15,519
so I went back to watch some of the Daniel

1081
00:55:15,559 --> 00:55:18,320
Craig ones that I didn't really love. And you know,

1082
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,119
I thought Casino Royale was one of the best James

1083
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:23,480
Bond movies ever made. I just love the reboot when

1084
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:28,320
it happened. I think he really he's much more in

1085
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,760
line with what I think Ian Fleming's James Bond was

1086
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,559
in the books. You know, he's just agreed, Yeah, just

1087
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:37,320
a hardheaded, like straightforward. You know. I love there's this

1088
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,199
scene where this guy's chasing is jumping through all the

1089
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:42,360
windows and he just goes right through the wall. You know,

1090
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,880
that's this James Bond. But then the other movies becomes

1091
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,719
like this emotional mess and I just don't really enjoy them.

1092
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,840
And I didn't love I mean, Skyfall's fine, but I

1093
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,239
watched like the most recent one, I didn't love it, Specter,

1094
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,119
I didn't really love it. I don't know, how do

1095
00:55:56,159 --> 00:55:57,519
you what do you think of iem?

1096
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 2: Completely agree with everything you just said, Like I was

1097
00:56:01,159 --> 00:56:04,800
so thrilled by Casino Royale in terms of like, you know,

1098
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:05,800
after you know.

1099
00:56:07,119 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 1: The taking James Bond, you know, breaking.

1100
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: It down and just bringing it back to its essence

1101
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,760
and what it should have been, and you know, really

1102
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:16,119
nailing that right out of the gate.

1103
00:56:16,199 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: I was like great.

1104
00:56:17,519 --> 00:56:20,280
Speaker 2: And then like all of the other Craig films, it's

1105
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,199
like the aesthetic and the tone is right, but somehow

1106
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:28,719
they just don't work, like they're not well written. They

1107
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,159
had they at some point Becauseina Royale didn't have a

1108
00:56:31,199 --> 00:56:33,920
problem with this, but some point all the other films

1109
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:37,639
because they took a more sober, you know, view of

1110
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,480
Bond being you know, this ruthless, you know, you guy

1111
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:46,400
with a license to kill. They had a trouble balancing

1112
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,360
that with the you know, the serious tone with the

1113
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,480
more ridiculous aspects of James Bond. I felt like in

1114
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:54,920
terms of like you know, Henchman's layers and you know,

1115
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,000
women and all the other crap. Uh, they just couldn't

1116
00:56:58,039 --> 00:57:03,039
ever find the balance after Casino Royal again, and you know,

1117
00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:05,480
I don't know, it just there should have been slightly

1118
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,480
more of an element of fun. Basically, there was just

1119
00:57:09,639 --> 00:57:11,480
enough in Casino roy Allen. Then none of the other

1120
00:57:11,519 --> 00:57:12,559
films really had that.

1121
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,519
Speaker 1: And occasionally they'll they'll try to throw some joke in,

1122
00:57:17,599 --> 00:57:20,159
but it always comes out, it falls flat because the

1123
00:57:20,199 --> 00:57:22,760
movie is just so serious and the directors like Sammon

1124
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,639
does whatever they're like have But I think they look great.

1125
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,719
They look like you've hired the best director. You spent

1126
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,239
a lot of money on this movie. They're three hours long.

1127
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,480
I like that, Like I want the story to stretch out.

1128
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,679
But like you say, something was always off with the

1129
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,519
with the writing, with the with the.

1130
00:57:37,519 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 2: Well I think also the story fundamentally it was Daniel Craig,

1131
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,280
like Bond needs to have some sort of like actual

1132
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:47,440
like charisma, and I you know, I think he's a

1133
00:57:47,519 --> 00:57:50,639
very good actor, you know, I just don't think he

1134
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,559
fundamentally had that. You know, women want to be with him,

1135
00:57:54,599 --> 00:57:57,320
men want to be him thing. Yeah, that you know,

1136
00:57:57,719 --> 00:58:01,239
he really sort of needed. Sean Connery had that in spades,

1137
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,920
you know, and I think Sean Connery could have. You know,

1138
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,119
obviously they made you know, Thunderball and Goldfinger and all

1139
00:58:08,119 --> 00:58:10,760
those are the classics, but you know, he could have.

1140
00:58:11,199 --> 00:58:13,519
Really they could have really honed in on that with

1141
00:58:13,719 --> 00:58:16,239
Connery and handled it well in terms of being kind

1142
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,760
of a serious bond. If they'd gone down that route,

1143
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:19,480
I just don't.

1144
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:19,719
Speaker 1: Think that.

1145
00:58:21,199 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: Craig had the chops or charisma quite to pull it off.

1146
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:26,559
He's a different kind of actor ultimately.

1147
00:58:27,039 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: Guys ripped though in really good shapes.

1148
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:34,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, human growth hormone and a trainer and a dietician

1149
00:58:34,039 --> 00:58:34,800
twenty four hours a day.

1150
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,719
Speaker 1: I'll do that and listen. I'm not one to talk,

1151
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,320
and I don't know what women find attractive, but he

1152
00:58:40,559 --> 00:58:42,639
is a weird looking dude a little bit right, Like,

1153
00:58:42,679 --> 00:58:45,039
I'm like, is this really an attractive man? I'm not sure,

1154
00:58:45,199 --> 00:58:47,440
you know, but like in the way that Sean Connery

1155
00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:48,719
was or Roger Moore.

1156
00:58:48,719 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 2: Was, you know, he does have that kind of intensity

1157
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,480
I think that women are drawn to. I don't know,

1158
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,360
maybe women find him slightly more appealing than I did ultimately,

1159
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:03,440
but yeah, he that intensity was just a little too much,

1160
00:59:03,639 --> 00:59:06,559
Like intensity was for Bond. Was good, but at a

1161
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:09,159
certain point it was just like, Ugh, this doesn't need

1162
00:59:09,199 --> 00:59:12,239
to be, you know, a something that drags us down.

1163
00:59:12,039 --> 00:59:15,719
Speaker 1: For three hours. Yeah, yeah, and I get it. I

1164
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,000
think he is a good actor in other roles. I've

1165
00:59:18,039 --> 00:59:21,559
enjoyed him quite a bit. So if you have different

1166
00:59:21,559 --> 00:59:24,880
ideas about James Bond, you can email us at Radio

1167
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,840
at the Federalist dot com. We always love to hear

1168
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,360
from you. Then we'll be back next week. The next

1169
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,920
James Bond should be well. For a long time, I

1170
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,719
thought it should be an Indrius Alba, right, but he's

1171
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,199
I think he's aged out. Is just too old now. Yeah,

1172
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,920
so I don't know. I don't know enough about British actors.

1173
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,360
Here's the thing I don't think. I mean I didn't.

1174
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,440
I sort of knew who Daniel Craig was because I

1175
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,599
had seen him in that Tom Anks movie and a

1176
00:59:49,679 --> 00:59:53,639
British crime movie. But like, you don't need someone who's famous.

1177
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,800
Layer Cake is an I love that movie. That's what

1178
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,199
That's what really put him on people's radar for this. Yeah. Yeah,

1179
01:00:01,239 --> 01:00:03,239
so I don't have an answer to that. I think

1180
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:04,840
a lot of the people I was thinking about years

1181
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,320
ago of aged out. So why do you have someone No,

1182
01:00:08,559 --> 01:00:12,440
not at all. Yeah, I'm very sort of curious. But well,

1183
01:00:12,719 --> 01:00:16,920
so Amazon bought at all and they're looking now right, Well.

1184
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 2: What I'm afraid of? You know, the Amazon is going

1185
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,679
to turn this into the James Bond Extended Universe. You know,

1186
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,679
when you get three seasons of a money paying show,

1187
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:28,719
Heaven help us. You know, I'm given what they did

1188
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,400
Lord of the Rings after spending a.

1189
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: Billion, I'll say that. Yeah, it was brutal, and I

1190
01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:36,199
really gave it my best shot at liking it. It's funny.

1191
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,679
There has never been any kind of James Bond offshoot

1192
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,559
anything ever, Right, Yeah, I.

1193
01:00:42,559 --> 01:00:44,519
Speaker 2: Mean they were obviously very guarded with the property and

1194
01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:46,400
was kind of the Golden Us for you know, De

1195
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:51,280
Laurentis and other people. So yeah, don't don't don't screw

1196
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,800
this up. Amazon, I'm please, I'm looking at you, Bezos.

1197
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:57,400
Please do not get involved. Bezos.

1198
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 1: Anyway, We'll be back next week until will them be

1199
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,119
lovers of freedom and anxious for the throw?

1200
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 3: Hey, tonight is the ninth.

1201
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,039
Speaker 1: Then I'm gonna get twisted. Mike miss got no if

1202
01:01:06,039 --> 01:01:07,880
I go, I'm gonna mix it. Roll that space ship.

1203
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:09,880
We about to get lifted. Lift in the President give

1204
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:11,480
this is gonna gift it. This is what you came,

1205
01:01:11,599 --> 01:01:13,639
is what you came for. What you made is what

1206
01:01:13,719 --> 01:01:14,159
you paid for.