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<v Speaker 1>Coming to you from the dining room table at East

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<v Speaker 1>Barbary Lane. Welcome to another special episode of Full Circle

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr. Martha

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<v Speaker 1>is on special assignment somewhere in Deva Land, but that's

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<v Speaker 1>okay because we have a wonderful guest with us today.

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<v Speaker 1>Kathy Anderson is an award winning novelist and short story

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<v Speaker 1>author who has been lauded in both queer and quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote mainstream literary circles. And she has a collection of

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<v Speaker 1>short stories entitled Vamoose, which is a very interesting and

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<v Speaker 1>cool read and I cannot wait to speak to her

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<v Speaker 1>about it. Kathy Anderson, Welcome to the Full Circle Table.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, like I just said, the collection of short

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<v Speaker 1>stories Van Moose, it was first of all, I love

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<v Speaker 1>how Philly centric.

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<v Speaker 3>The pieces are.

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<v Speaker 1>The stories are you are from South Jersey, but you

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<v Speaker 1>live in Philly.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that how that works?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I live in Philly originally from I grew up

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<v Speaker 2>in Wilmington, Delaware. Oh, but I worked in South Jersey,

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<v Speaker 2>so I do have a lot of references. I have

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<v Speaker 2>some references to that. Also in there.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I love it. I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>So is a do you center a lot of your

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<v Speaker 1>work in Philly or.

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<v Speaker 3>Are we just lucky with this book?

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<v Speaker 2>This is more of the first time that I wrote

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<v Speaker 2>so much about Philly and included so many of the

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<v Speaker 2>details and try to pick up the very unique vibe

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<v Speaker 2>that is Philly that many people have noticed. It's, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they call it a gritty city. It's a very real city.

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<v Speaker 2>It's full of neighborhoods, each of which are real, different

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<v Speaker 2>from each other. And I'm not sure exactly why these

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<v Speaker 2>all these details started to, you know, take center stage

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<v Speaker 2>in this book. But I'm really happy about it because

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<v Speaker 2>I just love living here and I love trying to capture,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, what it is that's so special about Philly.

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<v Speaker 3>And there is so much special.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm was born and raised in Philadelphia. I lived there

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<v Speaker 1>for forty something years before moving to South Jersey, so

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<v Speaker 1>I caught a lot of the little bits of flavor

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<v Speaker 1>and I appreciated them, and I felt like, even though

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<v Speaker 1>you weren't always specific about the exact location.

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<v Speaker 4>That certain events were taking place, and.

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<v Speaker 1>I had the picture in my mind, you know, I'm picturing, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>this earl on that corner, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Philly is full of things like little cool alleyways,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't know. I mean, I've been in a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of other cities. I haven't noticed a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>those kind of same details. So that's the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>thing that I tried to put in. The old streets,

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<v Speaker 2>the old buildings, the let alone, the dialogue, the way

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<v Speaker 2>people act, that is a whole nother thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, and you do namecheck several different neighborhoods like

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<v Speaker 1>South Philly gets a shout out Brewery Town, West Philly,

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<v Speaker 1>Old City, So I.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it made me a little homesick. This litit.

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<v Speaker 3>So you seem to.

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<v Speaker 1>Gravitate towards the short story. Why I mean short stories

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<v Speaker 1>are actually one of my.

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<v Speaker 3>Favorite things to read.

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<v Speaker 1>Part of it is because you know, they're a lot

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<v Speaker 1>easier to digest.

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<v Speaker 3>The author has to like get in and make the

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<v Speaker 3>point and get out.

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<v Speaker 1>What makes you gravitate towards short stories?

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<v Speaker 2>When I started writing short stories, I felt like, and

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<v Speaker 2>I still feel like, they are the hardest thing that

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<v Speaker 2>I could possibly attempt to write. And when I think

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<v Speaker 2>I got really hooked on it, when I actually felt

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<v Speaker 2>like I pulled it off. So the first time you

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<v Speaker 2>get to the end of a story, you feel like

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<v Speaker 2>I did that. I actually wrote a short story. There's

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<v Speaker 2>some kind of special thrill with it, I think, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's a very intense experience to try to capture a

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<v Speaker 2>character's whole life story in essence, so that you know

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<v Speaker 2>enough about them to know who they are and why

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing what they're doing. You also have to have

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<v Speaker 2>a plot. Something has to happen, and so you have

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<v Speaker 2>to have a setting. You have to have so many

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<v Speaker 2>things to fall into, like ten pages or twelve pages

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<v Speaker 2>almost impossible when you really think about it, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>very much for me. It is a feeling my way

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<v Speaker 2>along kind of thing. So it taps into what I

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<v Speaker 2>love about writing is that it comes from such a

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<v Speaker 2>deep inner place. It's very intuitive. It's very you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just following my deepest instincts as opposed to my brain,

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<v Speaker 2>which might be plotting something out in a longer piece.

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<v Speaker 3>Mmmmm hmm.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I said, you have to get in, make your point,

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<v Speaker 1>and get out. And what that does a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>times is the ending tends to pack a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more of a punch that way exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And when you say get in, make your point, and

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<v Speaker 2>get out. Honestly, when I start something, I have a

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<v Speaker 2>sense of what it might be about, because maybe it's

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<v Speaker 2>a very strong feeling that keeps me at it to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out what is this story about? But I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know when I go in. So that's part of the

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<v Speaker 2>joy of writing short stories to me, is that you

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<v Speaker 2>have that same discovery that a reader has, like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>discovering as I go along, Like I start the first

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<v Speaker 2>story in the book with a photograph of nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 2>nine Dallas Gay Pride, and from there I say to myself,

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<v Speaker 2>where is this going? And I don't know either, So

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of, you know, me figuring out what point

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<v Speaker 2>I'm making. By the end, I figure it out, but

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know as along the way.

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<v Speaker 3>I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>And have you ever started a short story and halfway

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<v Speaker 1>through wonder whether or not you want it to remain

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<v Speaker 1>a short story? Like I want to flesh this out

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit more. I want to see where this

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<v Speaker 1>person goes from here.

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<v Speaker 3>Has that ever happened? Has it ever happened with this collection?

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<v Speaker 2>Not with that collection so much. But my novel is

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<v Speaker 2>actually came about because these characters that it was about.

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<v Speaker 2>It's called the new Town Librarian, and it's about a

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<v Speaker 2>librarian in South Jersey, a lesbian, middle aged librarian. As

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<v Speaker 2>a matter of fact, I worked in South Jersey and

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<v Speaker 2>I heard, you know, these strong accents and dialogue and

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<v Speaker 2>the whole culture of the Italian Americans in the town

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<v Speaker 2>that I worked in, And so that stayed with me

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<v Speaker 2>for so many years, I can't tell you.

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<v Speaker 1>So.

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<v Speaker 2>In other words, I knew there was a lot to

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<v Speaker 2>those characters. I didn't know again what they were going

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<v Speaker 2>to do, how would it all play out? But when

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<v Speaker 2>I finally figured that out, that's they became a novel,

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<v Speaker 2>that whole story with two main characters, right, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I described this book as not so much a collection

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<v Speaker 1>of short stories, but a collection of the lives of

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<v Speaker 1>complicated women.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so perfect. I totally endorse.

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<v Speaker 1>That, because whatever each story is about, ultimately that's what

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<v Speaker 1>it is, you know, someone dealing with their stubbornness or

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<v Speaker 1>their grief or just their inability to like.

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<v Speaker 3>Commit to a decision, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And once I realized that that's what was going on,

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<v Speaker 1>it made me look forward.

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<v Speaker 3>To, Okay, what's going to be in this one? What's

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<v Speaker 3>going to be in this one?

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<v Speaker 1>Are your protagonists always women in your work, no, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>But for this book, what I tried to do was

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<v Speaker 2>I have many more short stories, and so when I'm

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<v Speaker 2>looking to make a book, I think what goes together?

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<v Speaker 2>Where is there a connecting part that because you can't

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<v Speaker 2>have a short story collection kind of jumping around in things,

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't feel good as a reader. You kind of

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<v Speaker 2>have to figure out some unity. And you know, there

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<v Speaker 2>are fifteen stories in the book, fifteen very different women

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<v Speaker 2>and very different situations, but the through lines are there

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<v Speaker 2>for me, and that's how I put it together. And

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<v Speaker 2>for me, the other thing that was really important is

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<v Speaker 2>what you were describing is how they react to these

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<v Speaker 2>situations that come along. And for me, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of humor in it because you know, it's very surprising

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<v Speaker 2>what they choose to do when they're confronted with something.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think I use the word subversive a lot

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<v Speaker 2>with this book, and I think that to me, that

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<v Speaker 2>means they don't follow conventional expectations of what we think

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<v Speaker 2>an old lesbian would act like or be like, or

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<v Speaker 2>an old woman would act like and be like. So

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<v Speaker 2>that makes humor intrinsically because humor is often surprised. So

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<v Speaker 2>if you're reading along and you are surprised, we tend to.

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<v Speaker 3>Laugh, right, It's true.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you I'm going to get into the actual stories.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm just I'm fascinated because again I love short

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<v Speaker 1>stories and I get to sit and talk with someone

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<v Speaker 1>who can.

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<v Speaker 3>Answer my questions.

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<v Speaker 1>So, like with this particular collection, when you sat down

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<v Speaker 1>to write, were you were you intentionally writing stories for

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<v Speaker 1>this collection or did you have stories that you already

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<v Speaker 1>had and you pulled them together because they fit the

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<v Speaker 1>theme or both.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great question, I actually is the second response.

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<v Speaker 2>I had all of these stories over probably ten years,

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<v Speaker 2>and was you know, knowing I wanted to write have

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<v Speaker 2>a second short story collection. I didn't have in mind

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<v Speaker 2>that it would be about women. I didn't have in

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<v Speaker 2>mind anything. I was just looking for feeling my way

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<v Speaker 2>toward what kind of would form together. And it's an

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<v Speaker 2>interesting thing. I think every at least from what I

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<v Speaker 2>know about writing and creativity, it's always about ourselves. We

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<v Speaker 2>have to explore something. And as I'm getting older, the

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<v Speaker 2>subject of older lesbians got more and more interesting to me.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was exploring it for myself as well, Like

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<v Speaker 2>what does it feel like to be this age and

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<v Speaker 2>doing XYZ. So that kind of helped the book come together.

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<v Speaker 3>I think.

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<v Speaker 1>So when I was reading the story She Squared, there

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<v Speaker 1>was a line that I had to get a sticky

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<v Speaker 1>note and write a question. The line is when I

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<v Speaker 1>start to feel love, I immediately imagine its loss. And

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<v Speaker 1>it hit me that that was kind of the overarching

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<v Speaker 1>theme of each.

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<v Speaker 3>Of the stories in some way or another, Like, was

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<v Speaker 3>that deliberate or did that just happen that way?

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<v Speaker 2>You are very astute to pick that up, and it

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<v Speaker 2>is not. It was not deliberate. But one of the

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<v Speaker 2>early reviewers used the word loss. I wouldn't have used

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<v Speaker 2>that word, Like, I think, there's this interesting thing. You

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<v Speaker 2>write what you write, you make it as strong as

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<v Speaker 2>you can, you love it, you love every word of it,

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<v Speaker 2>and then other people kind of tell you what it's

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<v Speaker 2>about because you only have a limited amount that you

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<v Speaker 2>can analyze of your own work. I think that's absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>true that that line is really is true of all

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<v Speaker 2>of the stories. But it's not the kind of thing

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<v Speaker 2>you can write to, you can know about yourself and

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<v Speaker 2>write to. It's the kind of thing that comes out

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<v Speaker 2>as people respond to it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because and love mean something different, and loss means

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<v Speaker 1>something different in each of these stories, like in one

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<v Speaker 1>case it's an actual romantic relationship and another one it's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the loss of a spouse. One the story

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<v Speaker 1>with the murderous nun, as it were, the loss of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the life that could.

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<v Speaker 2>Have been you know. Yeah, and.

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<v Speaker 1>So many different colorful characters, and they're all after the

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<v Speaker 1>same thing in one way or another. I will say

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<v Speaker 1>that one the one story, I said, the woman who

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<v Speaker 1>is trying to survive losing her spouse.

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<v Speaker 3>There was a character.

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<v Speaker 1>In that story that, like, I would love for you

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<v Speaker 1>to explore further, the hospice nurse, because.

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<v Speaker 2>Story was originally named We Hate the Hospice Nurse, which

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<v Speaker 2>I thank you for laughing. I found that idea very

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<v Speaker 2>funny but very true to life.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, having had to experience a hospice nurse or two.

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<v Speaker 3>In my life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, and that's all they are really.

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<v Speaker 2>They're easy to blame in that scenario, but right.

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<v Speaker 1>It gives you someplace to put those.

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<v Speaker 2>Feelings, yeah, which are huge.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeahh Whether you can name those feelings or not,

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<v Speaker 1>it gives you somethingplace to put them. And yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>the more we learn about her, the more I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I want.

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<v Speaker 3>To follow her where what's her dated day?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know what's interesting to me about you bringing

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<v Speaker 2>up that she's quite a minor character really in that story?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>But what did? And I again, I needed to have

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<v Speaker 2>that role in the story, but I didn't know who

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<v Speaker 2>she was when I started it, and I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>what her deal was. So I started to think about, like,

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<v Speaker 2>why is she so cold? Why is she so matter

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<v Speaker 2>of fact? And then the rest of what would make

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<v Speaker 2>that makes sense came along. And I won't say it

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<v Speaker 2>just in case anybody is, you know, spoiler alert.

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<v Speaker 3>But I was trying to be as vague.

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<v Speaker 2>But I do love that thought of like a minor

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<v Speaker 2>character can still play a powerful role and have a

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<v Speaker 2>story that sticks with people if it's if the details

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<v Speaker 2>are right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So you know that's my little personal request, like

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, I will story that's mine. I think my

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<v Speaker 1>favorite story, the one that my brain keeps coming to

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<v Speaker 1>when I think about this book, is the one about

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<v Speaker 1>the former circus performer who takes her still't walk through

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<v Speaker 1>South Philly, because like, I can picture that. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure I've seen that in my life.

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<v Speaker 2>You see everything. You see everything on Broad Street.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't you exactly, especially like during fringe time.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like that very well could be a.

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<v Speaker 1>Thing that happens, right, And that just felt like one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most Philly things, one of the most South

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<v Speaker 1>Philly things ever.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, what else is south Philly about that story?

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<v Speaker 2>The neighbor knowing watching. I mean not just South Philly,

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<v Speaker 2>but Philly is neighborhoods. And I live in row House

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<v Speaker 2>block and we all hear and see everything front back,

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00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.600
<v Speaker 2>who's walking by. You know, it is very close quarters

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<v Speaker 2>and people really do watch out for each other.

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<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm hopefully.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I lived most of my life in Philly. I lived

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<v Speaker 1>in West Philly in a room, and it is very

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<v Speaker 1>much that even if you live by yourself, you are

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<v Speaker 1>not alone.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true, true.

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<v Speaker 3>And I hated that, but that's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>What is What's what would you say is one of

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<v Speaker 1>your favorite Philly moments in this book?

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<v Speaker 2>I love Geraldine, the older butch lesbian who who has

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<v Speaker 2>a She's on an errand to go to the Italian

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<v Speaker 2>deli that she loves and she's clamping along. She's clamping

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00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.240
<v Speaker 2>along in her work boots and her you know, mask clothing,

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00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:51.799
<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden she feels pushed up against

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<v Speaker 2>the wall on the street with like something's happening here,

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<v Speaker 2>and all these Philly things start happening right in front

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<v Speaker 2>of her. A guy throws up on the sidewalk, A

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of kids go buy on bikes, doing the you know,

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00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:06.880
<v Speaker 2>wheelies and stopping traffic and so on. So it's a

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<v Speaker 2>very to me, like everything in that whole scene I

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00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:14.359
<v Speaker 2>have witness, not all at once, but individually. So I mean,

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00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:17.200
<v Speaker 2>it's a very interesting place to live. There's so much

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<v Speaker 2>happening always.

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00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:22.279
<v Speaker 1>There really is, and and yeah, sometimes it is at

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00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:27.680
<v Speaker 1>the same time, and just sometimes it's just in rapid sequence, and.

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00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.720
<v Speaker 3>It's like I just want to get to the bank exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Stop being colorful, damn it.

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<v Speaker 2>Forget that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there were, like I said, there were, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of complicated women, uh in these stories, and I

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00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:58.599
<v Speaker 1>think that is valuable for people to experience because I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't I didn't really notice.

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<v Speaker 3>Let me think about this for a second.

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00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I didn't really notice too many tropes like in

316
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.279
<v Speaker 1>these stories, like or obviously anyway, like each of these

317
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:17.720
<v Speaker 1>women were unique to themselves, to the world they occupied,

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00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:23.359
<v Speaker 1>to the story that was being told. I can't say

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00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:27.759
<v Speaker 1>that I immediately you know, well, I've read this story,

320
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:30.240
<v Speaker 1>I know where this is going. I never had that.

321
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:37.480
<v Speaker 1>And you know what draws you to complicated women?

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00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, number one, that is a huge compliment what you

323
00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.319
<v Speaker 2>just said, and that is my highest goal in writing

324
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.680
<v Speaker 2>is to be true to the characters. Let them really

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00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:50.519
<v Speaker 2>be their fullest self and speak like they want to

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00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:53.079
<v Speaker 2>speak and act like they want to act, and not

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<v Speaker 2>be conforming to some pattern like that to me feels like.

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00:19:57.640 --> 00:19:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Not right right.

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00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.839
<v Speaker 2>So I forgot the question now because I got derailed

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00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:04.720
<v Speaker 2>to say the end part again.

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<v Speaker 3>What draws you to complicated when?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think complicated women on the page like that

333
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:14.799
<v Speaker 2>are very much like the women I know in real life.

334
00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:18.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying these are modeled on real women. I'm saying, uh,

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00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying like, I think that I can identify the

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00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:30.279
<v Speaker 2>realness of a person in real life, the genuine self,

337
00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:33.839
<v Speaker 2>as opposed to someone who's trying to act like whatever.

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00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.680
<v Speaker 2>And so that's kind of what I try to capture

339
00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:41.759
<v Speaker 2>is the real experience. And what I hope that readers

340
00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:43.759
<v Speaker 2>find is like, it's a lot of fun to hang

341
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:47.119
<v Speaker 2>out with these older women on the page because they

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00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:51.519
<v Speaker 2>are really themselves and that is like the best conversation

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00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:53.839
<v Speaker 2>you ever have or the best party you ever have,

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00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.599
<v Speaker 2>is being around people who are just real, you know,

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00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.839
<v Speaker 2>just being themselves. So I'm very drawn to that. I

346
00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.960
<v Speaker 2>can if I can ever write dialogue where it has

347
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.640
<v Speaker 2>happened to me where somebody says, you absolutely captured my

348
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.839
<v Speaker 2>grandmother in the flesh. I've never met his grandmother, right,

349
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:13.440
<v Speaker 2>but if somebody says that to me, I know I

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00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:14.039
<v Speaker 2>got it right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that's one of the things that I

353
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:24.039
<v Speaker 1>really enjoyed, is like, those are the kind of women.

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<v Speaker 3>That we have in our life, in real life. And

355
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:35.119
<v Speaker 3>it's that idea of like not being.

356
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:38.079
<v Speaker 1>Concerned with the exception of one story where that was

357
00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:41.960
<v Speaker 1>the actual point of the story, not being concerned about

358
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:50.200
<v Speaker 1>how they are perceived by other people, not being concerned

359
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:52.000
<v Speaker 1>with being.

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00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.759
<v Speaker 3>Digestible to other people. You know, this is me, this is.

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<v Speaker 1>Who I am, and you're going to take it or

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00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.079
<v Speaker 1>you're going to leave it. Either way, I don't care.

363
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.279
<v Speaker 2>And that is the beauty of getting to an older age.

364
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:09.160
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's a pretty universal sentiment that everyone

365
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:11.880
<v Speaker 2>who gets to be at a certain point in life,

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00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:16.119
<v Speaker 2>especially for women who they have so many more expectations

367
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:19.200
<v Speaker 2>laid on us all along the way. When you get

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00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:21.880
<v Speaker 2>to the point where you really know that you are

369
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:26.000
<v Speaker 2>done with all that, it's very freeing and it's actually

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<v Speaker 2>very fun.

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<v Speaker 1>I can but imagine, because I'm just getting to a

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<v Speaker 1>place where I am releasing a lot of that pressure

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<v Speaker 1>on myself to conform to what is considered an acceptable

374
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<v Speaker 1>human But then I'm also not existing with the societal

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00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:54.440
<v Speaker 1>pressures that are put on being a woman.

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<v Speaker 3>So I can but imagine.

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<v Speaker 1>One of my favorite phrases of late is dangerous woman.

378
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Martha spoke at a Pride event last year and the

379
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:09.880
<v Speaker 1>protesters were trying to drown her out. It didn't work,

380
00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:15.400
<v Speaker 1>and they preferred to her as a dangerous woman. And

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00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:17.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, my favorite thing was, well, you say that

382
00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:22.920
<v Speaker 1>like that's a bad thing. That's so perfect, And I

383
00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:25.680
<v Speaker 1>feel like a lot of the women in this book

384
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:28.599
<v Speaker 1>could be categorized that way, a dangerous woman.

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00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:30.039
<v Speaker 3>You know, you speak your.

386
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Mind and your opinion is not going to change based

387
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:39.720
<v Speaker 1>on who you're speaking too. If your feelings get hurt. Okay,

388
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:41.759
<v Speaker 1>that wasn't my goal, but I'm not going to lose

389
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:42.359
<v Speaker 1>sleep over.

390
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:47.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's very powerful just to be yourself. Yeah, it

391
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:48.079
<v Speaker 2>really is a very.

392
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Powerful authenticity is my favorite flavor? Do you have I

393
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:01.240
<v Speaker 1>know it's like asking you to choose between your kids,

394
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.079
<v Speaker 1>but do you have a favorite story in this book?

395
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to use that word because they are

396
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:13.160
<v Speaker 2>all my love beloved children, but one that was quite

397
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:16.279
<v Speaker 2>an incredible experience to write was the opening story, which

398
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:21.359
<v Speaker 2>covers a very long friendship, a platonic friendship between two

399
00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:26.079
<v Speaker 2>lesbians through their whole lives, through lots of points of history.

400
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:32.920
<v Speaker 2>And it is special to me because it took a

401
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:36.359
<v Speaker 2>really long time to write and get it right. It

402
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:39.359
<v Speaker 2>took a really long time to live parts of it.

403
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.079
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's a lot of that book, a lot

404
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:44.880
<v Speaker 2>of that story relates to my own experience. It is

405
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:49.200
<v Speaker 2>not autobiographical per se. So you know, it's again that

406
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.640
<v Speaker 2>feeling of when you really want something to be in

407
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.640
<v Speaker 2>the world, You know it should be in the world,

408
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:59.079
<v Speaker 2>and it's still so hard to get there. You pick

409
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:01.599
<v Speaker 2>it up, put it down over the years, and then

410
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:05.319
<v Speaker 2>so when it finally came out in a form and

411
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:07.920
<v Speaker 2>a format, that was the hard thing for me. How

412
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.000
<v Speaker 2>am I going to format a story this long, and

413
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:15.720
<v Speaker 2>so I figured out one day that it worked beautifully

414
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:21.119
<v Speaker 2>if I told the story through photographs, and so that

415
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:23.599
<v Speaker 2>was the piece that had to fall into place. And

416
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.359
<v Speaker 2>so I think when you really work hard for something

417
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.400
<v Speaker 2>and love it very much, that makes it very special.

418
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.960
<v Speaker 3>Mmmmmm. I agree with that.

419
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:36.759
<v Speaker 1>That story in particular, that was the It's the first

420
00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:40.640
<v Speaker 1>one in the book, and so it was setting the

421
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:46.440
<v Speaker 1>tone for me, and I found myself identifying with.

422
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.960
<v Speaker 3>One character and wanting to shake the other one. It's like,

423
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.240
<v Speaker 3>what'd your relax, lady? Damn?

424
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:59.400
<v Speaker 2>And that is friendship. It's so strange, isn't it How

425
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.960
<v Speaker 2>you can be lifelong friends with someone the exact opposite

426
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.480
<v Speaker 2>of you, and in fact, maybe the universe put you

427
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:07.279
<v Speaker 2>together to learn from each other.

428
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.559
<v Speaker 3>Mmm mmmm mm hmmm. And I noticed.

429
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:18.079
<v Speaker 1>With my own best friends circle, and you know that

430
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.640
<v Speaker 1>circle is tight now as you get.

431
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:23.680
<v Speaker 3>Older, you shed the extra.

432
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:30.319
<v Speaker 1>The ones who are our closest we love them and

433
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:35.519
<v Speaker 1>we hate them sometimes for the exact same reasons.

434
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.519
<v Speaker 2>You've caught it exactly. It's because they're family. It's just

435
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.279
<v Speaker 2>like family. We also we know each other so well.

436
00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:48.559
<v Speaker 2>We can you know someone too well? Maybe maybe, but

437
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:53.599
<v Speaker 2>yet friendship is often the most enduring relationship of our lives.

438
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:58.960
<v Speaker 2>So I really, you know, really am thrilled to honor that. Yeah, and.

439
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Not every character in the book is queer, but there

440
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:10.839
<v Speaker 1>is a lot of queerness throughout these stories. Actually, there

441
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:14.200
<v Speaker 1>was some queerness in the stories where the characters themselves were.

442
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.000
<v Speaker 3>Not actually queer, Mike. If you ask the characters, they

443
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:20.480
<v Speaker 3>probably wouldn't know that. But I know what I'm looking.

444
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:26.480
<v Speaker 1>And I forget why I brought that up, other than

445
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:28.279
<v Speaker 1>the fact that, you know, I appreciate that.

446
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:31.079
<v Speaker 3>I appreciate that theme always.

447
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:36.519
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned specifically with that first story that it was

448
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:42.920
<v Speaker 1>not autobiographical, but how much of your own life is

449
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:44.640
<v Speaker 1>in any of these stories.

450
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:49.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, the elements of life often are like story starters.

451
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.680
<v Speaker 2>So for example, with that first story, it's about two

452
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.640
<v Speaker 2>lesbian librarians. I was a lesbian librarian, So there are

453
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:59.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, some of the basic starting points are there,

454
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:05.319
<v Speaker 2>and the time frame is accurate to my own time

455
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:07.960
<v Speaker 2>frame when I started, when I came out, when I

456
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:14.720
<v Speaker 2>became active an activist in the librarianship, queer librarianship movement

457
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:17.880
<v Speaker 2>and that kind of thing. So there definitely are elements,

458
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:20.680
<v Speaker 2>but many of the other stories, I would say there's

459
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.599
<v Speaker 2>a quality of detachment, like somebody told me a story,

460
00:28:24.759 --> 00:28:27.279
<v Speaker 2>or I was in a restaurant and I overheard something

461
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:31.160
<v Speaker 2>that started a story. So it can be very it's

462
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:35.119
<v Speaker 2>a very mysterious process to me how things start, and

463
00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I think it's very hard to, you know, accurately describe

464
00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:44.599
<v Speaker 2>where a story comes from and where it goes right.

465
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:47.720
<v Speaker 2>So that's what makes it such a beautiful form to

466
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:50.720
<v Speaker 2>work in to me, that I get to have like

467
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:54.640
<v Speaker 2>that discovery experience as I go along, and it teaches

468
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:57.839
<v Speaker 2>me something and it helps me see maybe some of

469
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.559
<v Speaker 2>my own stumbling blocks in life or what do I

470
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:03.720
<v Speaker 2>need to learn. So it's a very big experience to

471
00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:05.519
<v Speaker 2>write just any short story.

472
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:10.519
<v Speaker 3>I was sitting here.

473
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:16.920
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned queer librarian movement community. I was sitting here

474
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:21.359
<v Speaker 1>and I was thinking, because we know several librarians, and

475
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:23.880
<v Speaker 1>it just occurred to me, I don't think I've ever

476
00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:25.759
<v Speaker 1>met a librarian that wasn't queer.

477
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.119
<v Speaker 2>There you go, oh, that's so cool. Well, here's the

478
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:35.440
<v Speaker 2>thing I'm trying to think the real one of the

479
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:39.079
<v Speaker 2>real influencers of that, The American Library Association was the

480
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:43.480
<v Speaker 2>first professional association to have a gay and Lesbian Task Force.

481
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:46.839
<v Speaker 2>That's what they called it back then, back in the seventies.

482
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:51.400
<v Speaker 2>It was before doctors, before psychologists, before lawyers had their

483
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:55.960
<v Speaker 2>own gay caucuses within their professional association. The librarians led

484
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the way. So I know I became ab yes, because

485
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:01.880
<v Speaker 2>it has to do it with access to books and

486
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:05.000
<v Speaker 2>so on, And they actually had a big influence on

487
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:10.160
<v Speaker 2>the publishing industry because if a librarian organization puts a

488
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:13.480
<v Speaker 2>stamp of approval on a book and says this belongs

489
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:17.240
<v Speaker 2>in public libraries, then the publishers are more likely to

490
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:21.279
<v Speaker 2>print it and make it accessible. So I'm really happy

491
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:24.119
<v Speaker 2>that in my life I was able to be involved

492
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:26.920
<v Speaker 2>with that whole group, and they are the most fun

493
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:29.279
<v Speaker 2>parties you will ever go to in your life.

494
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:30.799
<v Speaker 1>Is the.

495
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Queer caucuses at the annual conventions.

496
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:39.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that makes sense that librarians would have

497
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.680
<v Speaker 1>that strong of an influence on the publishing industry because

498
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:47.240
<v Speaker 1>you literally have your finger on the pulse of what

499
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:51.839
<v Speaker 1>the community is reading, and places.

500
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Are what allies need as well. So like when things

501
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:59.599
<v Speaker 2>became more people were coming out in their personal lives,

502
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:02.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, parents would show up and say, are where

503
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:05.119
<v Speaker 2>is a book that someone who that I can talk

504
00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.359
<v Speaker 2>to my son about this or my daughter about this.

505
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:10.279
<v Speaker 2>They wanted to be informed as an ally as well.

506
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:12.519
<v Speaker 2>So I mean it really had a huge impact and

507
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:13.279
<v Speaker 2>continues to.

508
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and going back to the wild parties, I can

509
00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:27.480
<v Speaker 1>but imagine because every librarian that I know, and I

510
00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:31.599
<v Speaker 1>suspect this is just across the board as buttoned up

511
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.720
<v Speaker 1>as y'all might appear when you're on the clock.

512
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:42.000
<v Speaker 3>I happen to know firsthand. Once you're off work, y'all

513
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:42.759
<v Speaker 3>are crazy.

514
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.039
<v Speaker 2>My lips are sealed, but you're right.

515
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:56.640
<v Speaker 4>And names have been changed to protect. So here's a

516
00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:57.599
<v Speaker 4>question for you.

517
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:05.359
<v Speaker 1>We have this crazy time we're living in which is

518
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:10.480
<v Speaker 1>reminiscent of another crazy time where there is this battle

519
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:16.240
<v Speaker 1>against information and library specifically are being targeted.

520
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Books are being targeted. How have you been dealing with that?

521
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Because well, I should say I no longer am a

522
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:29.839
<v Speaker 2>libraryan so I'm not actively day to day dealing. But

523
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:33.519
<v Speaker 2>here's a cool thing that makes it different from the

524
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:39.880
<v Speaker 2>previous book banning bad eras very different. Now there's technology,

525
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:43.160
<v Speaker 2>and so what happens is you have things like the

526
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:49.559
<v Speaker 2>Liberation Library is an free online library. It comes through libby,

527
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:53.720
<v Speaker 2>which is the Library app that all libraries have. So

528
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:57.400
<v Speaker 2>if you look for Queer Liberation Library and put in,

529
00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:00.200
<v Speaker 2>you don't even have to have a library card. You

530
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.720
<v Speaker 2>would not believe the amazing Queer Library for free online

531
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:08.319
<v Speaker 2>that people have access to. So what I picture is

532
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.680
<v Speaker 2>some kid, a teenager out in a rural area, in

533
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:16.119
<v Speaker 2>a conservative, conservative, conservative area and guess what they can

534
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:19.599
<v Speaker 2>get the books that they want privately on their phone

535
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:22.839
<v Speaker 2>or their read reader, so that we did not have

536
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:26.559
<v Speaker 2>back in previous times. So I take great joy and

537
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:32.519
<v Speaker 2>great hope in these kind of responses to what's going on,

538
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:36.400
<v Speaker 2>and also knowing the pendulum swings and it's certainly is

539
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:37.400
<v Speaker 2>going to swing back.

540
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:46.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I am very much a fan of Libby. That's

541
00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:50.039
<v Speaker 1>one of the best inventions man hath.

542
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Brought absolutely totally.

543
00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:55.440
<v Speaker 1>And Martha and I have talked about on the show

544
00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:59.240
<v Speaker 1>when we talk about the crazy book bannings and things

545
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:03.799
<v Speaker 1>like that, said directly to our listeners, you know what

546
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:07.480
<v Speaker 1>you shouldn't do. You should not download the Libby app

547
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.719
<v Speaker 1>and put in and put in your library card and

548
00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:13.840
<v Speaker 1>have access to all of these books in e form.

549
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:16.800
<v Speaker 1>And you know, if if you live in a rural

550
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:19.239
<v Speaker 1>area and there's certain things that you want that your

551
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:19.920
<v Speaker 1>library doesn't.

552
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:21.320
<v Speaker 3>You know what else you shouldn't do.

553
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:23.920
<v Speaker 1>You shouldn't make friends on the internet with people who

554
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:27.199
<v Speaker 1>live in major metropolitan areas and borrow their library card.

555
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:28.199
<v Speaker 2>Numb there you go.

556
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:31.760
<v Speaker 1>You absolutely should that would be bad if you did that.

557
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:37.239
<v Speaker 2>This is really strong and it's a powerful thing that

558
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.159
<v Speaker 2>we can do. Spread that message just to get through

559
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:44.039
<v Speaker 2>this bad time. We shouldn't have to, but thank god we.

560
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Have it right. And what these fools don't recognize is

561
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:55.719
<v Speaker 1>the more you try to say this book is bad,

562
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:59.800
<v Speaker 1>this book is dangerous, the more you're making people want

563
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:03.480
<v Speaker 1>to you read that book absolutely and you know, like

564
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:08.360
<v Speaker 1>we said with Libby and various other avenues like, it

565
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:12.760
<v Speaker 1>has never been easier to get your hands on this information.

566
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:19.079
<v Speaker 1>You know, you should also not visit thriftbooks dot com,

567
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:21.920
<v Speaker 1>where you can get books that are much cheaper. You

568
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:23.880
<v Speaker 1>can get used books at a much cheaper price.

569
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:25.360
<v Speaker 3>You know that that would also be bad.

570
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:31.159
<v Speaker 1>With the internet, it's never been easier to get your

571
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:34.679
<v Speaker 1>hands on the information that you want.

572
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely true, and that gives us hope, you know, we

573
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.440
<v Speaker 2>can get through this with all of these things that

574
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:43.960
<v Speaker 2>come with this time as well. So bad things are

575
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.280
<v Speaker 2>at this time. But also all these cool good things

576
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:49.039
<v Speaker 2>are happening too, right.

577
00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:56.239
<v Speaker 1>And that is you know, ultimately, besides highlighting queer voices

578
00:35:56.360 --> 00:36:00.760
<v Speaker 1>and artists, you know, we talk about the news that

579
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:05.239
<v Speaker 1>affects the LGBTQ community, and you know, especially in the

580
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:10.079
<v Speaker 1>present moment, a lot of it is horrific and a

581
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.679
<v Speaker 1>lot of it is you know, we'll keep you up

582
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.239
<v Speaker 1>at night, but what we try to do is focus

583
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:20.119
<v Speaker 1>on the responses because that's that's where the good ship is.

584
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:24.320
<v Speaker 3>The way people respond to these problems, and a lot.

585
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Of the ways are so creative and clever, and that's

586
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:33.239
<v Speaker 1>what gives you hope, especially with the young folks, you know,

587
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:37.920
<v Speaker 1>like they will find a way that you know, even

588
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:42.000
<v Speaker 1>my subversive self, who you know, I had my time

589
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:45.360
<v Speaker 1>in the nineties where you know, we made some noise.

590
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:47.119
<v Speaker 3>They come up with things and I'm.

591
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:55.599
<v Speaker 5>Like, I would not have thought that, Lady Gus, And

592
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:58.440
<v Speaker 5>you know, that's that's what we gotta We gotta hold

593
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:02.280
<v Speaker 5>on to the fact that you know, this this moment

594
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:02.920
<v Speaker 5>will pass.

595
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:04.199
<v Speaker 3>It cannot last forever.

596
00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it is not sustainable, and you know it's just

597
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:12.679
<v Speaker 1>the dying gasp of the old.

598
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:15.639
<v Speaker 2>Way, absolutely true. I totally am with you on that,

599
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:16.840
<v Speaker 2>and they know it.

600
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:22.719
<v Speaker 1>That's why they're fighting so damn all true, you know,

601
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:28.119
<v Speaker 1>and and that's why I love the ability to have

602
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:32.960
<v Speaker 1>information at your fingertips. I love that we can that

603
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:41.280
<v Speaker 1>authors are still creating wonderful new works, wonderful ideas, so

604
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:46.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, on behalf of all of the idea makers

605
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:48.119
<v Speaker 1>and disseminate tours.

606
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:49.360
<v Speaker 3>I want to thank you personally.

607
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:53.840
<v Speaker 2>What a lovely thing to say. I really appreciate that.

608
00:37:54.639 --> 00:38:00.480
<v Speaker 1>So the collection of short stories is called Vamoos. It

609
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.559
<v Speaker 1>is a wonderful read. It will take you on many

610
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:10.199
<v Speaker 1>of little rides. Some of them you'll be smiling, some

611
00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:13.440
<v Speaker 1>of them you'll be crying, some one then the other.

612
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:17.280
<v Speaker 3>But I definitely recommend.

613
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:24.559
<v Speaker 1>Kathy, what is your favorite way to tell people to

614
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:25.360
<v Speaker 1>get your books?

615
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because there are

616
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:30.400
<v Speaker 2>so many ways to get it. It is on all

617
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:34.159
<v Speaker 2>the usual online booksellers, but my publisher happens to be

618
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:38.400
<v Speaker 2>a female owned independent publisher with their own shop as well,

619
00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:42.280
<v Speaker 2>so people can get it however they like. Feel free.

620
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:46.400
<v Speaker 2>But if anyone is interested in supporting this wonderful female

621
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.880
<v Speaker 2>owned press, it is Vine Leaves Press.

622
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:51.920
<v Speaker 3>Vine Leaves Press.

623
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:56.480
<v Speaker 1>I love it. And if we wanted to learn more

624
00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:59.400
<v Speaker 1>about you, Kathy, where could we go?

625
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, probably the best place to start is Kathy andersonwriter

626
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:07.440
<v Speaker 2>dot com. And there are some short stories on my

627
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:12.920
<v Speaker 2>website that were published in literary magazines, links to other things,

628
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.360
<v Speaker 2>so there's some additional things to read if anyone's interested.

629
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:17.360
<v Speaker 3>I love it.

630
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:22.679
<v Speaker 1>So what is the takeaway that you would love people

631
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:27.159
<v Speaker 1>to have from not just Vemous.

632
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.719
<v Speaker 3>But your work in general?

633
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:33.480
<v Speaker 1>Like, if we were to distill your style, let's say,

634
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:34.800
<v Speaker 1>what would.

635
00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:35.280
<v Speaker 3>You like that to be.

636
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:39.519
<v Speaker 2>I would like it to be two words, humor and hope.

637
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Humor because I think it's just a basic human thing

638
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.599
<v Speaker 2>that we really need right now. We need to bring

639
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that to all of our as much as possible into

640
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.880
<v Speaker 2>our lives, because it's a real act of resistance to

641
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:57.119
<v Speaker 2>find the humor in life. Yeah, and hope because I

642
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:59.679
<v Speaker 2>just feel the worst thing any of us can do

643
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:04.920
<v Speaker 2>is get cynical and hopeless right now. So I believe

644
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:08.199
<v Speaker 2>very much in hope and looking for hopeful things, and

645
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:10.119
<v Speaker 2>that those are the two things that I would love

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<v Speaker 2>for people to find in my writing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes and hope. It is also an act of Resistance.

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<v Speaker 2>And I love absolutely, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Kathy, thank you so much for joining me today.

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<v Speaker 3>I hope you had as good of a time as

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<v Speaker 3>I did.

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<v Speaker 2>It was wonderful, what a pleasure. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so you have been listening to Full Circle

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast, and Kathy, I have the feeling that this

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<v Speaker 1>is not the last time we're going to sit and

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<v Speaker 1>chat together.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that would be great. I look forward to Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you so much and you have a great day. Same

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<v Speaker 2>to you, Bye bye bye.

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<v Speaker 1>Full Circle is a Never Skurreed Productions podcast hosted by

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<v Speaker 1>Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited by

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<v Speaker 1>Never Scured Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.

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<v Speaker 1>Our theme in music is by the jingle Berries. All names, pictures, music, audio,

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<v Speaker 1>and video clips are registered trade marks and or copyrights

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<v Speaker 1>of their respective copyright holders.