Speaker 1: Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Speaker 1: Barbary Lane. Welcome to another special episode of Full Circle
Speaker 1: the podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr. Martha
Speaker 1: is on special assignment somewhere in Deva Land, but that's
Speaker 1: okay because we have a wonderful guest with us today.
Speaker 1: Kathy Anderson is an award winning novelist and short story
Speaker 1: author who has been lauded in both queer and quote
Speaker 1: unquote mainstream literary circles. And she has a collection of
Speaker 1: short stories entitled Vamoose, which is a very interesting and
Speaker 1: cool read and I cannot wait to speak to her
Speaker 1: about it. Kathy Anderson, Welcome to the Full Circle Table.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: So yeah, like I just said, the collection of short
Speaker 1: stories Van Moose, it was first of all, I love
Speaker 1: how Philly centric.
Speaker 3: The pieces are.
Speaker 1: The stories are you are from South Jersey, but you
Speaker 1: live in Philly.
Speaker 3: Is that how that works?
Speaker 2: No, I live in Philly originally from I grew up
Speaker 2: in Wilmington, Delaware. Oh, but I worked in South Jersey,
Speaker 2: so I do have a lot of references. I have
Speaker 2: some references to that. Also in there.
Speaker 3: Okay, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1: So is a do you center a lot of your
Speaker 1: work in Philly or.
Speaker 3: Are we just lucky with this book?
Speaker 2: This is more of the first time that I wrote
Speaker 2: so much about Philly and included so many of the
Speaker 2: details and try to pick up the very unique vibe
Speaker 2: that is Philly that many people have noticed. It's, you know,
Speaker 2: they call it a gritty city. It's a very real city.
Speaker 2: It's full of neighborhoods, each of which are real, different
Speaker 2: from each other. And I'm not sure exactly why these
Speaker 2: all these details started to, you know, take center stage
Speaker 2: in this book. But I'm really happy about it because
Speaker 2: I just love living here and I love trying to capture,
Speaker 2: you know, what it is that's so special about Philly.
Speaker 3: And there is so much special.
Speaker 1: I'm was born and raised in Philadelphia. I lived there
Speaker 1: for forty something years before moving to South Jersey, so
Speaker 1: I caught a lot of the little bits of flavor
Speaker 1: and I appreciated them, and I felt like, even though
Speaker 1: you weren't always specific about the exact location.
Speaker 4: That certain events were taking place, and.
Speaker 1: I had the picture in my mind, you know, I'm picturing, oh,
Speaker 1: this earl on that corner, right.
Speaker 2: I think Philly is full of things like little cool alleyways,
Speaker 2: and I don't know. I mean, I've been in a
Speaker 2: lot of other cities. I haven't noticed a lot of
Speaker 2: those kind of same details. So that's the kind of
Speaker 2: thing that I tried to put in. The old streets,
Speaker 2: the old buildings, the let alone, the dialogue, the way
Speaker 2: people act, that is a whole nother thing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you do namecheck several different neighborhoods like
Speaker 1: South Philly gets a shout out Brewery Town, West Philly,
Speaker 1: Old City, So I.
Speaker 3: You know, it made me a little homesick. This litit.
Speaker 3: So you seem to.
Speaker 1: Gravitate towards the short story. Why I mean short stories
Speaker 1: are actually one of my.
Speaker 3: Favorite things to read.
Speaker 1: Part of it is because you know, they're a lot
Speaker 1: easier to digest.
Speaker 3: The author has to like get in and make the
Speaker 3: point and get out.
Speaker 1: What makes you gravitate towards short stories?
Speaker 2: When I started writing short stories, I felt like, and
Speaker 2: I still feel like, they are the hardest thing that
Speaker 2: I could possibly attempt to write. And when I think
Speaker 2: I got really hooked on it, when I actually felt
Speaker 2: like I pulled it off. So the first time you
Speaker 2: get to the end of a story, you feel like
Speaker 2: I did that. I actually wrote a short story. There's
Speaker 2: some kind of special thrill with it, I think, because
Speaker 2: it's a very intense experience to try to capture a
Speaker 2: character's whole life story in essence, so that you know
Speaker 2: enough about them to know who they are and why
Speaker 2: they're doing what they're doing. You also have to have
Speaker 2: a plot. Something has to happen, and so you have
Speaker 2: to have a setting. You have to have so many
Speaker 2: things to fall into, like ten pages or twelve pages
Speaker 2: almost impossible when you really think about it, and it's
Speaker 2: very much for me. It is a feeling my way
Speaker 2: along kind of thing. So it taps into what I
Speaker 2: love about writing is that it comes from such a
Speaker 2: deep inner place. It's very intuitive. It's very you know,
Speaker 2: just following my deepest instincts as opposed to my brain,
Speaker 2: which might be plotting something out in a longer piece.
Speaker 3: Mmmmm hmm.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like I said, you have to get in, make your point,
Speaker 1: and get out. And what that does a lot of
Speaker 1: times is the ending tends to pack a little bit
Speaker 1: more of a punch that way exactly.
Speaker 2: And when you say get in, make your point, and
Speaker 2: get out. Honestly, when I start something, I have a
Speaker 2: sense of what it might be about, because maybe it's
Speaker 2: a very strong feeling that keeps me at it to
Speaker 2: figure out what is this story about? But I don't
Speaker 2: know when I go in. So that's part of the
Speaker 2: joy of writing short stories to me, is that you
Speaker 2: have that same discovery that a reader has, like I'm
Speaker 2: discovering as I go along, Like I start the first
Speaker 2: story in the book with a photograph of nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: nine Dallas Gay Pride, and from there I say to myself,
Speaker 2: where is this going? And I don't know either, So
Speaker 2: it's kind of, you know, me figuring out what point
Speaker 2: I'm making. By the end, I figure it out, but
Speaker 2: I don't know as along the way.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: And have you ever started a short story and halfway
Speaker 1: through wonder whether or not you want it to remain
Speaker 1: a short story? Like I want to flesh this out
Speaker 1: a little bit more. I want to see where this
Speaker 1: person goes from here.
Speaker 3: Has that ever happened? Has it ever happened with this collection?
Speaker 2: Not with that collection so much. But my novel is
Speaker 2: actually came about because these characters that it was about.
Speaker 2: It's called the new Town Librarian, and it's about a
Speaker 2: librarian in South Jersey, a lesbian, middle aged librarian. As
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, I worked in South Jersey and
Speaker 2: I heard, you know, these strong accents and dialogue and
Speaker 2: the whole culture of the Italian Americans in the town
Speaker 2: that I worked in, And so that stayed with me
Speaker 2: for so many years, I can't tell you.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: In other words, I knew there was a lot to
Speaker 2: those characters. I didn't know again what they were going
Speaker 2: to do, how would it all play out? But when
Speaker 2: I finally figured that out, that's they became a novel,
Speaker 2: that whole story with two main characters, right, Okay.
Speaker 1: I described this book as not so much a collection
Speaker 1: of short stories, but a collection of the lives of
Speaker 1: complicated women.
Speaker 2: That's so perfect. I totally endorse.
Speaker 1: That, because whatever each story is about, ultimately that's what
Speaker 1: it is, you know, someone dealing with their stubbornness or
Speaker 1: their grief or just their inability to like.
Speaker 3: Commit to a decision, you know.
Speaker 1: And once I realized that that's what was going on,
Speaker 1: it made me look forward.
Speaker 3: To, Okay, what's going to be in this one? What's
Speaker 3: going to be in this one?
Speaker 1: Are your protagonists always women in your work, no, okay.
Speaker 2: But for this book, what I tried to do was
Speaker 2: I have many more short stories, and so when I'm
Speaker 2: looking to make a book, I think what goes together?
Speaker 2: Where is there a connecting part that because you can't
Speaker 2: have a short story collection kind of jumping around in things,
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel good as a reader. You kind of
Speaker 2: have to figure out some unity. And you know, there
Speaker 2: are fifteen stories in the book, fifteen very different women
Speaker 2: and very different situations, but the through lines are there
Speaker 2: for me, and that's how I put it together. And
Speaker 2: for me, the other thing that was really important is
Speaker 2: what you were describing is how they react to these
Speaker 2: situations that come along. And for me, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of humor in it because you know, it's very surprising
Speaker 2: what they choose to do when they're confronted with something.
Speaker 2: And I think I use the word subversive a lot
Speaker 2: with this book, and I think that to me, that
Speaker 2: means they don't follow conventional expectations of what we think
Speaker 2: an old lesbian would act like or be like, or
Speaker 2: an old woman would act like and be like. So
Speaker 2: that makes humor intrinsically because humor is often surprised. So
Speaker 2: if you're reading along and you are surprised, we tend to.
Speaker 3: Laugh, right, It's true.
Speaker 1: So when you I'm going to get into the actual stories.
Speaker 1: But I'm just I'm fascinated because again I love short
Speaker 1: stories and I get to sit and talk with someone
Speaker 1: who can.
Speaker 3: Answer my questions.
Speaker 1: So, like with this particular collection, when you sat down
Speaker 1: to write, were you were you intentionally writing stories for
Speaker 1: this collection or did you have stories that you already
Speaker 1: had and you pulled them together because they fit the
Speaker 1: theme or both.
Speaker 2: It's a great question, I actually is the second response.
Speaker 2: I had all of these stories over probably ten years,
Speaker 2: and was you know, knowing I wanted to write have
Speaker 2: a second short story collection. I didn't have in mind
Speaker 2: that it would be about women. I didn't have in
Speaker 2: mind anything. I was just looking for feeling my way
Speaker 2: toward what kind of would form together. And it's an
Speaker 2: interesting thing. I think every at least from what I
Speaker 2: know about writing and creativity, it's always about ourselves. We
Speaker 2: have to explore something. And as I'm getting older, the
Speaker 2: subject of older lesbians got more and more interesting to me.
Speaker 2: So I was exploring it for myself as well, Like
Speaker 2: what does it feel like to be this age and
Speaker 2: doing XYZ. So that kind of helped the book come together.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: So when I was reading the story She Squared, there
Speaker 1: was a line that I had to get a sticky
Speaker 1: note and write a question. The line is when I
Speaker 1: start to feel love, I immediately imagine its loss. And
Speaker 1: it hit me that that was kind of the overarching
Speaker 1: theme of each.
Speaker 3: Of the stories in some way or another, Like, was
Speaker 3: that deliberate or did that just happen that way?
Speaker 2: You are very astute to pick that up, and it
Speaker 2: is not. It was not deliberate. But one of the
Speaker 2: early reviewers used the word loss. I wouldn't have used
Speaker 2: that word, Like, I think, there's this interesting thing. You
Speaker 2: write what you write, you make it as strong as
Speaker 2: you can, you love it, you love every word of it,
Speaker 2: and then other people kind of tell you what it's
Speaker 2: about because you only have a limited amount that you
Speaker 2: can analyze of your own work. I think that's absolutely
Speaker 2: true that that line is really is true of all
Speaker 2: of the stories. But it's not the kind of thing
Speaker 2: you can write to, you can know about yourself and
Speaker 2: write to. It's the kind of thing that comes out
Speaker 2: as people respond to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because and love mean something different, and loss means
Speaker 1: something different in each of these stories, like in one
Speaker 1: case it's an actual romantic relationship and another one it's
Speaker 1: you know, the loss of a spouse. One the story
Speaker 1: with the murderous nun, as it were, the loss of
Speaker 1: you know, the life that could.
Speaker 2: Have been you know. Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: So many different colorful characters, and they're all after the
Speaker 1: same thing in one way or another. I will say
Speaker 1: that one the one story, I said, the woman who
Speaker 1: is trying to survive losing her spouse.
Speaker 3: There was a character.
Speaker 1: In that story that, like, I would love for you
Speaker 1: to explore further, the hospice nurse, because.
Speaker 2: Story was originally named We Hate the Hospice Nurse, which
Speaker 2: I thank you for laughing. I found that idea very
Speaker 2: funny but very true to life.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, having had to experience a hospice nurse or two.
Speaker 3: In my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's all they are really.
Speaker 2: They're easy to blame in that scenario, but right.
Speaker 1: It gives you someplace to put those.
Speaker 2: Feelings, yeah, which are huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeahh Whether you can name those feelings or not,
Speaker 1: it gives you somethingplace to put them. And yeah, and
Speaker 1: the more we learn about her, the more I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I want.
Speaker 3: To follow her where what's her dated day?
Speaker 2: Well, you know what's interesting to me about you bringing
Speaker 2: up that she's quite a minor character really in that story?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: But what did? And I again, I needed to have
Speaker 2: that role in the story, but I didn't know who
Speaker 2: she was when I started it, and I didn't know
Speaker 2: what her deal was. So I started to think about, like,
Speaker 2: why is she so cold? Why is she so matter
Speaker 2: of fact? And then the rest of what would make
Speaker 2: that makes sense came along. And I won't say it
Speaker 2: just in case anybody is, you know, spoiler alert.
Speaker 3: But I was trying to be as vague.
Speaker 2: But I do love that thought of like a minor
Speaker 2: character can still play a powerful role and have a
Speaker 2: story that sticks with people if it's if the details
Speaker 2: are right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know that's my little personal request, like
Speaker 1: thank you, I will story that's mine. I think my
Speaker 1: favorite story, the one that my brain keeps coming to
Speaker 1: when I think about this book, is the one about
Speaker 1: the former circus performer who takes her still't walk through
Speaker 1: South Philly, because like, I can picture that. In fact,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I've seen that in my life.
Speaker 2: You see everything. You see everything on Broad Street.
Speaker 1: Don't you exactly, especially like during fringe time.
Speaker 3: It's like that very well could be a.
Speaker 1: Thing that happens, right, And that just felt like one
Speaker 1: of the most Philly things, one of the most South
Speaker 1: Philly things ever.
Speaker 2: You know, what else is south Philly about that story?
Speaker 2: The neighbor knowing watching. I mean not just South Philly,
Speaker 2: but Philly is neighborhoods. And I live in row House
Speaker 2: block and we all hear and see everything front back,
Speaker 2: who's walking by. You know, it is very close quarters
Speaker 2: and people really do watch out for each other.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm hopefully.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I lived most of my life in Philly. I lived
Speaker 1: in West Philly in a room, and it is very
Speaker 1: much that even if you live by yourself, you are
Speaker 1: not alone.
Speaker 2: That's true, true.
Speaker 3: And I hated that, but that's okay.
Speaker 1: What is What's what would you say is one of
Speaker 1: your favorite Philly moments in this book?
Speaker 2: I love Geraldine, the older butch lesbian who who has
Speaker 2: a She's on an errand to go to the Italian
Speaker 2: deli that she loves and she's clamping along. She's clamping
Speaker 2: along in her work boots and her you know, mask clothing,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden she feels pushed up against
Speaker 2: the wall on the street with like something's happening here,
Speaker 2: and all these Philly things start happening right in front
Speaker 2: of her. A guy throws up on the sidewalk, A
Speaker 2: bunch of kids go buy on bikes, doing the you know,
Speaker 2: wheelies and stopping traffic and so on. So it's a
Speaker 2: very to me, like everything in that whole scene I
Speaker 2: have witness, not all at once, but individually. So I mean,
Speaker 2: it's a very interesting place to live. There's so much
Speaker 2: happening always.
Speaker 1: There really is, and and yeah, sometimes it is at
Speaker 1: the same time, and just sometimes it's just in rapid sequence, and.
Speaker 3: It's like I just want to get to the bank exactly.
Speaker 1: Stop being colorful, damn it.
Speaker 2: Forget that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were, like I said, there were, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of complicated women, uh in these stories, and I
Speaker 1: think that is valuable for people to experience because I
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't really notice.
Speaker 3: Let me think about this for a second.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't really notice too many tropes like in
Speaker 1: these stories, like or obviously anyway, like each of these
Speaker 1: women were unique to themselves, to the world they occupied,
Speaker 1: to the story that was being told. I can't say
Speaker 1: that I immediately you know, well, I've read this story,
Speaker 1: I know where this is going. I never had that.
Speaker 1: And you know what draws you to complicated women?
Speaker 2: Well, number one, that is a huge compliment what you
Speaker 2: just said, and that is my highest goal in writing
Speaker 2: is to be true to the characters. Let them really
Speaker 2: be their fullest self and speak like they want to
Speaker 2: speak and act like they want to act, and not
Speaker 2: be conforming to some pattern like that to me feels like.
Speaker 3: Not right right.
Speaker 2: So I forgot the question now because I got derailed
Speaker 2: to say the end part again.
Speaker 3: What draws you to complicated when?
Speaker 2: Well, I think complicated women on the page like that
Speaker 2: are very much like the women I know in real life.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying these are modeled on real women. I'm saying, uh,
Speaker 2: I'm saying like, I think that I can identify the
Speaker 2: realness of a person in real life, the genuine self,
Speaker 2: as opposed to someone who's trying to act like whatever.
Speaker 2: And so that's kind of what I try to capture
Speaker 2: is the real experience. And what I hope that readers
Speaker 2: find is like, it's a lot of fun to hang
Speaker 2: out with these older women on the page because they
Speaker 2: are really themselves and that is like the best conversation
Speaker 2: you ever have or the best party you ever have,
Speaker 2: is being around people who are just real, you know,
Speaker 2: just being themselves. So I'm very drawn to that. I
Speaker 2: can if I can ever write dialogue where it has
Speaker 2: happened to me where somebody says, you absolutely captured my
Speaker 2: grandmother in the flesh. I've never met his grandmother, right,
Speaker 2: but if somebody says that to me, I know I
Speaker 2: got it right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the things that I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed, is like, those are the kind of women.
Speaker 3: That we have in our life, in real life. And
Speaker 3: it's that idea of like not being.
Speaker 1: Concerned with the exception of one story where that was
Speaker 1: the actual point of the story, not being concerned about
Speaker 1: how they are perceived by other people, not being concerned
Speaker 1: with being.
Speaker 3: Digestible to other people. You know, this is me, this is.
Speaker 1: Who I am, and you're going to take it or
Speaker 1: you're going to leave it. Either way, I don't care.
Speaker 2: And that is the beauty of getting to an older age.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a pretty universal sentiment that everyone
Speaker 2: who gets to be at a certain point in life,
Speaker 2: especially for women who they have so many more expectations
Speaker 2: laid on us all along the way. When you get
Speaker 2: to the point where you really know that you are
Speaker 2: done with all that, it's very freeing and it's actually
Speaker 2: very fun.
Speaker 1: I can but imagine, because I'm just getting to a
Speaker 1: place where I am releasing a lot of that pressure
Speaker 1: on myself to conform to what is considered an acceptable
Speaker 1: human But then I'm also not existing with the societal
Speaker 1: pressures that are put on being a woman.
Speaker 3: So I can but imagine.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite phrases of late is dangerous woman.
Speaker 1: Martha spoke at a Pride event last year and the
Speaker 1: protesters were trying to drown her out. It didn't work,
Speaker 1: and they preferred to her as a dangerous woman. And
Speaker 1: you know, my favorite thing was, well, you say that
Speaker 1: like that's a bad thing. That's so perfect, And I
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of the women in this book
Speaker 1: could be categorized that way, a dangerous woman.
Speaker 3: You know, you speak your.
Speaker 1: Mind and your opinion is not going to change based
Speaker 1: on who you're speaking too. If your feelings get hurt. Okay,
Speaker 1: that wasn't my goal, but I'm not going to lose
Speaker 1: sleep over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very powerful just to be yourself. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: really is a very.
Speaker 1: Powerful authenticity is my favorite flavor? Do you have I
Speaker 1: know it's like asking you to choose between your kids,
Speaker 1: but do you have a favorite story in this book?
Speaker 2: I'm not going to use that word because they are
Speaker 2: all my love beloved children, but one that was quite
Speaker 2: an incredible experience to write was the opening story, which
Speaker 2: covers a very long friendship, a platonic friendship between two
Speaker 2: lesbians through their whole lives, through lots of points of history.
Speaker 2: And it is special to me because it took a
Speaker 2: really long time to write and get it right. It
Speaker 2: took a really long time to live parts of it.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a lot of that book, a lot
Speaker 2: of that story relates to my own experience. It is
Speaker 2: not autobiographical per se. So you know, it's again that
Speaker 2: feeling of when you really want something to be in
Speaker 2: the world, You know it should be in the world,
Speaker 2: and it's still so hard to get there. You pick
Speaker 2: it up, put it down over the years, and then
Speaker 2: so when it finally came out in a form and
Speaker 2: a format, that was the hard thing for me. How
Speaker 2: am I going to format a story this long, and
Speaker 2: so I figured out one day that it worked beautifully
Speaker 2: if I told the story through photographs, and so that
Speaker 2: was the piece that had to fall into place. And
Speaker 2: so I think when you really work hard for something
Speaker 2: and love it very much, that makes it very special.
Speaker 3: Mmmmmm. I agree with that.
Speaker 1: That story in particular, that was the It's the first
Speaker 1: one in the book, and so it was setting the
Speaker 1: tone for me, and I found myself identifying with.
Speaker 3: One character and wanting to shake the other one. It's like,
Speaker 3: what'd your relax, lady? Damn?
Speaker 2: And that is friendship. It's so strange, isn't it How
Speaker 2: you can be lifelong friends with someone the exact opposite
Speaker 2: of you, and in fact, maybe the universe put you
Speaker 2: together to learn from each other.
Speaker 3: Mmm mmmm mm hmmm. And I noticed.
Speaker 1: With my own best friends circle, and you know that
Speaker 1: circle is tight now as you get.
Speaker 3: Older, you shed the extra.
Speaker 1: The ones who are our closest we love them and
Speaker 1: we hate them sometimes for the exact same reasons.
Speaker 2: You've caught it exactly. It's because they're family. It's just
Speaker 2: like family. We also we know each other so well.
Speaker 2: We can you know someone too well? Maybe maybe, but
Speaker 2: yet friendship is often the most enduring relationship of our lives.
Speaker 2: So I really, you know, really am thrilled to honor that. Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Not every character in the book is queer, but there
Speaker 1: is a lot of queerness throughout these stories. Actually, there
Speaker 1: was some queerness in the stories where the characters themselves were.
Speaker 3: Not actually queer, Mike. If you ask the characters, they
Speaker 3: probably wouldn't know that. But I know what I'm looking.
Speaker 1: And I forget why I brought that up, other than
Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that theme always.
Speaker 1: You mentioned specifically with that first story that it was
Speaker 1: not autobiographical, but how much of your own life is
Speaker 1: in any of these stories.
Speaker 2: Well, the elements of life often are like story starters.
Speaker 2: So for example, with that first story, it's about two
Speaker 2: lesbian librarians. I was a lesbian librarian, So there are
Speaker 2: you know, some of the basic starting points are there,
Speaker 2: and the time frame is accurate to my own time
Speaker 2: frame when I started, when I came out, when I
Speaker 2: became active an activist in the librarianship, queer librarianship movement
Speaker 2: and that kind of thing. So there definitely are elements,
Speaker 2: but many of the other stories, I would say there's
Speaker 2: a quality of detachment, like somebody told me a story,
Speaker 2: or I was in a restaurant and I overheard something
Speaker 2: that started a story. So it can be very it's
Speaker 2: a very mysterious process to me how things start, and
Speaker 2: I think it's very hard to, you know, accurately describe
Speaker 2: where a story comes from and where it goes right.
Speaker 2: So that's what makes it such a beautiful form to
Speaker 2: work in to me, that I get to have like
Speaker 2: that discovery experience as I go along, and it teaches
Speaker 2: me something and it helps me see maybe some of
Speaker 2: my own stumbling blocks in life or what do I
Speaker 2: need to learn. So it's a very big experience to
Speaker 2: write just any short story.
Speaker 3: I was sitting here.
Speaker 1: You mentioned queer librarian movement community. I was sitting here
Speaker 1: and I was thinking, because we know several librarians, and
Speaker 1: it just occurred to me, I don't think I've ever
Speaker 1: met a librarian that wasn't queer.
Speaker 2: There you go, oh, that's so cool. Well, here's the
Speaker 2: thing I'm trying to think the real one of the
Speaker 2: real influencers of that, The American Library Association was the
Speaker 2: first professional association to have a gay and Lesbian Task Force.
Speaker 2: That's what they called it back then, back in the seventies.
Speaker 2: It was before doctors, before psychologists, before lawyers had their
Speaker 2: own gay caucuses within their professional association. The librarians led
Speaker 2: the way. So I know I became ab yes, because
Speaker 2: it has to do it with access to books and
Speaker 2: so on, And they actually had a big influence on
Speaker 2: the publishing industry because if a librarian organization puts a
Speaker 2: stamp of approval on a book and says this belongs
Speaker 2: in public libraries, then the publishers are more likely to
Speaker 2: print it and make it accessible. So I'm really happy
Speaker 2: that in my life I was able to be involved
Speaker 2: with that whole group, and they are the most fun
Speaker 2: parties you will ever go to in your life.
Speaker 1: Is the.
Speaker 2: Queer caucuses at the annual conventions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that makes sense that librarians would have
Speaker 1: that strong of an influence on the publishing industry because
Speaker 1: you literally have your finger on the pulse of what
Speaker 1: the community is reading, and places.
Speaker 2: Are what allies need as well. So like when things
Speaker 2: became more people were coming out in their personal lives,
Speaker 2: you know, parents would show up and say, are where
Speaker 2: is a book that someone who that I can talk
Speaker 2: to my son about this or my daughter about this.
Speaker 2: They wanted to be informed as an ally as well.
Speaker 2: So I mean it really had a huge impact and
Speaker 2: continues to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and going back to the wild parties, I can
Speaker 1: but imagine because every librarian that I know, and I
Speaker 1: suspect this is just across the board as buttoned up
Speaker 1: as y'all might appear when you're on the clock.
Speaker 3: I happen to know firsthand. Once you're off work, y'all
Speaker 3: are crazy.
Speaker 2: My lips are sealed, but you're right.
Speaker 4: And names have been changed to protect. So here's a
Speaker 4: question for you.
Speaker 1: We have this crazy time we're living in which is
Speaker 1: reminiscent of another crazy time where there is this battle
Speaker 1: against information and library specifically are being targeted.
Speaker 3: Books are being targeted. How have you been dealing with that?
Speaker 2: Because well, I should say I no longer am a
Speaker 2: libraryan so I'm not actively day to day dealing. But
Speaker 2: here's a cool thing that makes it different from the
Speaker 2: previous book banning bad eras very different. Now there's technology,
Speaker 2: and so what happens is you have things like the
Speaker 2: Liberation Library is an free online library. It comes through libby,
Speaker 2: which is the Library app that all libraries have. So
Speaker 2: if you look for Queer Liberation Library and put in,
Speaker 2: you don't even have to have a library card. You
Speaker 2: would not believe the amazing Queer Library for free online
Speaker 2: that people have access to. So what I picture is
Speaker 2: some kid, a teenager out in a rural area, in
Speaker 2: a conservative, conservative, conservative area and guess what they can
Speaker 2: get the books that they want privately on their phone
Speaker 2: or their read reader, so that we did not have
Speaker 2: back in previous times. So I take great joy and
Speaker 2: great hope in these kind of responses to what's going on,
Speaker 2: and also knowing the pendulum swings and it's certainly is
Speaker 2: going to swing back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am very much a fan of Libby. That's
Speaker 1: one of the best inventions man hath.
Speaker 2: Brought absolutely totally.
Speaker 1: And Martha and I have talked about on the show
Speaker 1: when we talk about the crazy book bannings and things
Speaker 1: like that, said directly to our listeners, you know what
Speaker 1: you shouldn't do. You should not download the Libby app
Speaker 1: and put in and put in your library card and
Speaker 1: have access to all of these books in e form.
Speaker 1: And you know, if if you live in a rural
Speaker 1: area and there's certain things that you want that your
Speaker 1: library doesn't.
Speaker 3: You know what else you shouldn't do.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't make friends on the internet with people who
Speaker 1: live in major metropolitan areas and borrow their library card.
Speaker 2: Numb there you go.
Speaker 1: You absolutely should that would be bad if you did that.
Speaker 2: This is really strong and it's a powerful thing that
Speaker 2: we can do. Spread that message just to get through
Speaker 2: this bad time. We shouldn't have to, but thank god we.
Speaker 1: Have it right. And what these fools don't recognize is
Speaker 1: the more you try to say this book is bad,
Speaker 1: this book is dangerous, the more you're making people want
Speaker 1: to you read that book absolutely and you know, like
Speaker 1: we said with Libby and various other avenues like, it
Speaker 1: has never been easier to get your hands on this information.
Speaker 1: You know, you should also not visit thriftbooks dot com,
Speaker 1: where you can get books that are much cheaper. You
Speaker 1: can get used books at a much cheaper price.
Speaker 3: You know that that would also be bad.
Speaker 1: With the internet, it's never been easier to get your
Speaker 1: hands on the information that you want.
Speaker 2: Absolutely true, and that gives us hope, you know, we
Speaker 2: can get through this with all of these things that
Speaker 2: come with this time as well. So bad things are
Speaker 2: at this time. But also all these cool good things
Speaker 2: are happening too, right.
Speaker 1: And that is you know, ultimately, besides highlighting queer voices
Speaker 1: and artists, you know, we talk about the news that
Speaker 1: affects the LGBTQ community, and you know, especially in the
Speaker 1: present moment, a lot of it is horrific and a
Speaker 1: lot of it is you know, we'll keep you up
Speaker 1: at night, but what we try to do is focus
Speaker 1: on the responses because that's that's where the good ship is.
Speaker 3: The way people respond to these problems, and a lot.
Speaker 1: Of the ways are so creative and clever, and that's
Speaker 1: what gives you hope, especially with the young folks, you know,
Speaker 1: like they will find a way that you know, even
Speaker 1: my subversive self, who you know, I had my time
Speaker 1: in the nineties where you know, we made some noise.
Speaker 3: They come up with things and I'm.
Speaker 5: Like, I would not have thought that, Lady Gus, And
Speaker 5: you know, that's that's what we gotta We gotta hold
Speaker 5: on to the fact that you know, this this moment
Speaker 5: will pass.
Speaker 3: It cannot last forever.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is not sustainable, and you know it's just
Speaker 1: the dying gasp of the old.
Speaker 2: Way, absolutely true. I totally am with you on that,
Speaker 2: and they know it.
Speaker 1: That's why they're fighting so damn all true, you know,
Speaker 1: and and that's why I love the ability to have
Speaker 1: information at your fingertips. I love that we can that
Speaker 1: authors are still creating wonderful new works, wonderful ideas, so
Speaker 1: you know, on behalf of all of the idea makers
Speaker 1: and disseminate tours.
Speaker 3: I want to thank you personally.
Speaker 2: What a lovely thing to say. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: So the collection of short stories is called Vamoos. It
Speaker 1: is a wonderful read. It will take you on many
Speaker 1: of little rides. Some of them you'll be smiling, some
Speaker 1: of them you'll be crying, some one then the other.
Speaker 3: But I definitely recommend.
Speaker 1: Kathy, what is your favorite way to tell people to
Speaker 1: get your books?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because there are
Speaker 2: so many ways to get it. It is on all
Speaker 2: the usual online booksellers, but my publisher happens to be
Speaker 2: a female owned independent publisher with their own shop as well,
Speaker 2: so people can get it however they like. Feel free.
Speaker 2: But if anyone is interested in supporting this wonderful female
Speaker 2: owned press, it is Vine Leaves Press.
Speaker 3: Vine Leaves Press.
Speaker 1: I love it. And if we wanted to learn more
Speaker 1: about you, Kathy, where could we go?
Speaker 2: Well, probably the best place to start is Kathy andersonwriter
Speaker 2: dot com. And there are some short stories on my
Speaker 2: website that were published in literary magazines, links to other things,
Speaker 2: so there's some additional things to read if anyone's interested.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: So what is the takeaway that you would love people
Speaker 1: to have from not just Vemous.
Speaker 3: But your work in general?
Speaker 1: Like, if we were to distill your style, let's say,
Speaker 1: what would.
Speaker 3: You like that to be.
Speaker 2: I would like it to be two words, humor and hope.
Speaker 2: Humor because I think it's just a basic human thing
Speaker 2: that we really need right now. We need to bring
Speaker 2: that to all of our as much as possible into
Speaker 2: our lives, because it's a real act of resistance to
Speaker 2: find the humor in life. Yeah, and hope because I
Speaker 2: just feel the worst thing any of us can do
Speaker 2: is get cynical and hopeless right now. So I believe
Speaker 2: very much in hope and looking for hopeful things, and
Speaker 2: that those are the two things that I would love
Speaker 2: for people to find in my writing.
Speaker 3: Yes and hope. It is also an act of Resistance.
Speaker 2: And I love absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Well, Kathy, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 3: I hope you had as good of a time as
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 2: It was wonderful, what a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so you have been listening to Full Circle
Speaker 1: the podcast, and Kathy, I have the feeling that this
Speaker 1: is not the last time we're going to sit and
Speaker 1: chat together.
Speaker 2: Well, that would be great. I look forward to Thank
Speaker 2: you so much and you have a great day. Same
Speaker 2: to you, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1: Full Circle is a Never Skurreed Productions podcast hosted by
Speaker 1: Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited by
Speaker 1: Never Scured Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.
Speaker 1: Our theme in music is by the jingle Berries. All names, pictures, music, audio,
Speaker 1: and video clips are registered trade marks and or copyrights
Speaker 1: of their respective copyright holders.