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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the nonprofits. Our first story this week takes

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<v Speaker 1>a closer look at the way some Texans celebrate the

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<v Speaker 1>holiday season. San Antonio's first ever Crampis parade in the

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<v Speaker 1>King William neighborhood brought thousands to witness horned demons, witches,

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<v Speaker 1>and Saint Nicholas figures celebrating Germanic traditions. While most enjoyed

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<v Speaker 1>the festive atmosphere, some evangelical protesters took issue with the event,

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<v Speaker 1>claiming it promoted fear and judgment for children dressed as Jesus.

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<v Speaker 1>One protester carried across to defend the kids, while others

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<v Speaker 1>denounced the parade with megaphones. Ironically, their objections seemed to

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<v Speaker 1>boost attendance. Despite the controversy, the event was a hit,

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<v Speaker 1>with participants celebrating San Antonio's vibrant cultural diversity and hoping

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<v Speaker 1>to establish a new holiday tradition. This story was from

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<v Speaker 1>TPR by Joey Palacios on December sixth, twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>And So, first I want us to go over to Jonathan. Jonathan,

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<v Speaker 1>I would like for you, if you can, to give

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<v Speaker 1>give us a little bit of background on this cramp story.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you talk about what Crampus is all about, and

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<v Speaker 1>what are some of the origins and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure it's a Germanic myth of Crampus. He is. He

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<v Speaker 2>is a creature that is the polar opposite has turned

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<v Speaker 2>into the polar opposite of Santa Claus on December fifth.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are a naughty child, Crampus will find you

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<v Speaker 2>and beat you or eat you, or some other diabotical

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<v Speaker 2>parental blackmail to keep you in line. So the thought

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<v Speaker 2>is that Crampus is derived from an earlier Perched. I

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<v Speaker 2>can't pronounce that right. It's probably Slavic. But Perch was

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<v Speaker 2>this devilish humanoid, goat like creature with a long neck

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<v Speaker 2>like a giraffe. People wore costumes and marched in processions

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<v Speaker 2>known as Perchase Laufen, and boy, I didn't pronounce that right.

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<v Speaker 2>I apologize to German speakers everywhere. Eventually, person is Perch

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<v Speaker 2>and Laufen or perch Run were introduced to Saint Nicholas

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<v Speaker 2>and Perdue by the Catholic Church, who did like Perch

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<v Speaker 2>but couldn't in the end. In the Anatolian Reader, not

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<v Speaker 2>the Anatoley. The Alpine regions, they couldn't enforce the ban

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<v Speaker 2>on it, so it persisted, and so they introduced Saint Nicholas,

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<v Speaker 2>and they put Perch under this control of Saint Nicholas,

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<v Speaker 2>or under the auspices of Saint Nicholas, and he became Crampis.

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<v Speaker 2>Crampus became part of Saint Nicholas. This mythology in the

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<v Speaker 2>Alpine regions uh Crampis Slough or Crampis Run parade was

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<v Speaker 2>on December fifth, or Saint Nicholas's Day Eve. Usually usually

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<v Speaker 2>the sixth was Saint December sixth was Saint Nicholas's Saints Stay.

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<v Speaker 2>There is a lot of Lauren practices today in the Alpine,

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<v Speaker 2>but just to be sure, Crampis is usually given schnopps.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you want to keep on his good side,

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<v Speaker 2>stock up and the person winter spirits can be supposedly

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<v Speaker 2>be present from winter solstice to January sixth, so you

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<v Speaker 2>know you might want to keep a lot of it

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<v Speaker 2>on hand. The King William neighborhood itself is named after

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<v Speaker 2>Wilhelm the first of Germany. So I'd like to just

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<v Speaker 2>pass this myself, but Scott, do you want to sure?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So yeah, I want to pass it off to

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly here, Kelly Jonathan was telling us about, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the history of the Crampis. Can you tell us a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more about how Crampis Knacht is celebrated today

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<v Speaker 1>around the world.

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<v Speaker 4>I can, And some of you may have noticed that

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sands tied today and it's because I wore my

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<v Speaker 4>Crampis t shirt. I'm an old fan of the Crampis.

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<v Speaker 4>So the Crampus has been traditional in Central Europe, Austria, Slavinia, Germany,

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<v Speaker 4>Czech Republic and Hungary, and there he's a common sight

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<v Speaker 4>even in holiday markets throughout Austria, so everybody he knows

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<v Speaker 4>who Crampis is. Crampis knock has become more and more

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<v Speaker 4>popular in recent times though it is starting to spread

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<v Speaker 4>around the world. We're seeing Crampus parades become widespread and

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<v Speaker 4>as more and more people learn about the demon, he's

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<v Speaker 4>appearing more and more in the media, which is how

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<v Speaker 4>we got this story right. And there's even been a

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<v Speaker 4>horror movie made about the Crampus. So one of the

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<v Speaker 4>fun things that I like about it and is customary,

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<v Speaker 4>and John mentioned it, is that you feed snaps through

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<v Speaker 4>the crampits when they come parading through the town. Everybody

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<v Speaker 4>has a bottle of snaps and glasses for the Crampis

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<v Speaker 4>to drink from. So I mean, it kind of makes

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<v Speaker 4>me want to make my own costume because that's one

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<v Speaker 4>more day I could drink for free, right right.

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<v Speaker 5>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Sounds like a awful though that might be your last,

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<v Speaker 1>your last free drinks there.

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<v Speaker 4>It's it's since about I'd say about ten to fifteen

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<v Speaker 4>years ago. It started actually becoming popular in the US.

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<v Speaker 4>In a lot of US cities. New York Portland have

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<v Speaker 4>Crampis houses. They're like a Halloween haunted house, and they're

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<v Speaker 4>open for one or more nights during the holiday season.

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<v Speaker 4>New Orleans has a huge Crampist Knock parade. They claim

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<v Speaker 4>it's the largest one in the country. I'm not sure.

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<v Speaker 4>I didn't go down there and count, but I'm willing

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<v Speaker 4>to believe it. Many other cities have parades as well,

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<v Speaker 4>including Saint Paul, Minnesota. Saint Louis decided to base their

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<v Speaker 4>Crampist Knocked more on the drinking aspect of it, and

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<v Speaker 4>it's more like a pub crawl down in Saint Louis

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<v Speaker 4>and Columbia. South Carolina also has a big Boozy Bash

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<v Speaker 4>that they claim is actually the oldest crampist knock parade

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<v Speaker 4>in the US. So there's a little bit about how

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<v Speaker 4>people are celebrating it today.

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<v Speaker 1>Cool, all right, thanks Kelly for sharing that with us. That, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds like it'd be dangerous to be the crampis right,

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<v Speaker 1>because if you just drinking schnaps all night, the possibilities

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<v Speaker 1>for the evening get more and more diverse as you

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<v Speaker 1>get further further on in that exactly, speaking of evil debauchery, Steven,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to go to you next. I want you

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about the right. I want you to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the Christians that were protesting. They were protesting. Why

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<v Speaker 1>would they have a problem other than something being becoming

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<v Speaker 1>more and more popular, which apparently is a thing. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, why would Christians be upset with this.

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<v Speaker 5>Celebration besides the fact that it was something fun? Right?

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<v Speaker 3>Besides that? Yes?

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<v Speaker 5>Well yeah, yeah, well Evangelicals, they definitely are alarmed by

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<v Speaker 5>anything that might be a celebration of darkness. Right. Philippian's

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<v Speaker 5>for says, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right,

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<v Speaker 5>whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if

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<v Speaker 5>anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such thing and

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<v Speaker 5>that kind of gives them that impetus to say that

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<v Speaker 5>anything that is you know, spooky, scary, dark should be

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<v Speaker 5>forced away from our attention. We shouldn't be glorifying these

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<v Speaker 5>things that aren't you know, bright and light and from God,

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<v Speaker 5>which is just so so so selective, I guess from

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<v Speaker 5>from my perspective, Like the idea of not you know,

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<v Speaker 5>tainting Christmas with this dark, spooky, scary stuff is so

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<v Speaker 5>wild to me because Christmas is, you know, the Christian

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<v Speaker 5>celebration of Christmas is about a child being born on

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<v Speaker 5>around Christmas so that he could be raised like a

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<v Speaker 5>lamb for slaughtering, to be crucified to death, so that

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<v Speaker 5>God's children can escape an eternity of torture. And that

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<v Speaker 5>that seems pretty dark to me, pretty damn dark. You

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<v Speaker 5>don't get to have one without the other. Kettle thout

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<v Speaker 5>namest as black, like, yeah, it's it's so selective, and

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<v Speaker 5>I honestly, I think it comes down to just this

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<v Speaker 5>idea of Christians. You know, they've had such unmitigated cultural

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<v Speaker 5>attention for so long, and as those things subside with time,

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<v Speaker 5>then they are going to make a stink. Because again,

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<v Speaker 5>it's not persecution, it's just the way that we are

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<v Speaker 5>evolving as a society, and that is hard for people

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<v Speaker 5>who have experienced a long term privilege to understand.

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<v Speaker 3>Except I think you said the magic P word there.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a feeling that's going to be showing up

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<v Speaker 1>periodically throughout the evening tonight.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's go back to it. Let's go back to Jonathan

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<v Speaker 3>real quick here.

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan, what do you think the motivation behind the celebration

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<v Speaker 1>not just for the people of San Antonio, but for

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<v Speaker 1>people worldwide, as Kelly was saying, celebrating this. Is it

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<v Speaker 1>really just a callback to the ethnic origins of the

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<v Speaker 1>people that are organizing the celebration, or is it intended

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<v Speaker 1>to be like a poke in the eye against Christians?

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<v Speaker 1>Or is it just like in Saint Louis, Is it

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<v Speaker 1>just an excuse to just have a party and get drunk.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me see, hmm, well, this is this is an

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<v Speaker 2>interesting thought because it's a I think it has a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of nuance to it. I think there's a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of it. I think that people want tonight in

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<v Speaker 2>that time of they you know, the prior holiday was Thanksgiving, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so I think people are ready, they've recovered from Thanksgiving,

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<v Speaker 2>it's the holiday season. They want something between that and Christmas,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, in this particular holiday that just happened

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<v Speaker 2>to fill it. And you know, and also that it

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't hurt that they're kind of poking fun at Christmas,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And that's why the diehard evangelicals are you know,

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<v Speaker 2>losing their shorts over this one. You know, but they

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<v Speaker 2>do that with anything that they just don't want us

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<v Speaker 2>to have, you know. So But and then the other

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<v Speaker 2>side of it is like any good German october Fest

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<v Speaker 2>is you know, in their mind, my mind all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like another chance to go out and party

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<v Speaker 2>with your friends, right, And it's just I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of the motivation. I think the motivation for

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<v Speaker 2>this particular one was that it was seen as a

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<v Speaker 2>contest between the evangelicals and whatever, you know, and so

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<v Speaker 2>people came because they wanted to see what the fuss

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<v Speaker 2>was all about. It's like the freeway, see an accident,

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<v Speaker 2>everybody slows down to take a look. Well, these two

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<v Speaker 2>things are going to clash. Let's go watch the fight, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And it turned out that it was just a good

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<v Speaker 2>time apparently for everybody. So and the evangelical backlash sort

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<v Speaker 2>of fizzled out to nothing. Bullhorns, you know, they might

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<v Speaker 2>initially be a problem if there's only a few people,

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<v Speaker 2>but when there are thousands of people, bullhorns don't mean anything.

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<v Speaker 5>Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, like they said in the article, the you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the protest brought more people down.

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<v Speaker 2>It definitely, it did bring much more because of the advertisement,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because the churches decided to make it a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody said, cool, let's go watch this. Yeah, so they're

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<v Speaker 2>hoping to make it a big thing every year. Now

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<v Speaker 2>that's the other thing. They might have backfired completely and

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<v Speaker 2>have a crampas knock every year, you know, on December fifth.

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<v Speaker 2>That would be excellent and my German side family would

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<v Speaker 2>be please.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, Stephen, what did do you want to add

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<v Speaker 3>something in here?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, just like I believe I'm not the psychologist here,

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<v Speaker 5>but I think that there's also an understanding that we

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<v Speaker 5>as humans, we do we experience fear, and fear is

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<v Speaker 5>something scary and the best way to deal with that,

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<v Speaker 5>to get over that that monster under the bed or

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<v Speaker 5>in the closet, is to look it in the face

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<v Speaker 5>and to be around it. And that's the way that

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<v Speaker 5>that we as you know humans as creatures as we

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<v Speaker 5>can deal with fear and make it more manageable. So

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<v Speaker 5>like a celebration like this and Halloween and d O

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<v Speaker 5>stella Maritos, like they're all about making scary things less scary,

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<v Speaker 5>and fear is like a cornerstone that the church is

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<v Speaker 5>built off of. Like if they want to control you

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<v Speaker 5>and your behavior, they really really benefit from having this,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, sort of damocles hanging over your head, the

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<v Speaker 5>fact that, oh, if you don't comply, you may just

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<v Speaker 5>end up burning in hell, unless you're Calounists, in which

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<v Speaker 5>case you don't know if you want to end up

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<v Speaker 5>in hell or not. But but fear is so important

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<v Speaker 5>that they really need to like have the corner on

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<v Speaker 5>that market. And if we as a society aren't as

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<v Speaker 5>prone to fear, then that makes us just less prone

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<v Speaker 5>to the manipulations of the Church. So I can understand

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<v Speaker 5>why they would be concerned that people are enjoying things

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<v Speaker 5>around when in the month of December that aren't that

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<v Speaker 5>they don't.

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<v Speaker 1>So you think the Christians are worried about somebody's horning

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<v Speaker 1>in on their territory.

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<v Speaker 5>That there might be on the territory interesting or at

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<v Speaker 5>least yeah, the the the mystifying and making figures less scary.

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<v Speaker 1>Interesting take on that, Kelly, Let's let's jump back to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you consider this a secular celebration. I'm we talked

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about it's it's kind of in the

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<v Speaker 1>eye of Christians.

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<v Speaker 4>It's is it really in the eye of Christians though,

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<v Speaker 4>or is it just like right along with Christianity? Like

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<v Speaker 4>Stephen was pointed out, you got Christ has to have

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<v Speaker 4>something to save you from, right, and and here is

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<v Speaker 4>here's this thing that's going to get the bad kids,

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<v Speaker 4>throw them in a sack. And where's he bringing him to?

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<v Speaker 4>He's bringing him down to Hell? And let's face it,

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<v Speaker 4>Hell is a Christian invention. So no, this isn't a

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<v Speaker 4>secular thing. This is totally a Christian tradition, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>a Christian holiday if you think about it.

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<v Speaker 3>Whi's kind of off.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, right exactly, which you know, like in your introduction

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<v Speaker 4>you mentioned the guy with the cross defending the kids,

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<v Speaker 4>and I was I got this weird vision of my

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<v Speaker 4>head with the guys swinging and around and.

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<v Speaker 3>Of all the mission accomplished. Scott then.

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<v Speaker 4>Gotta be God's hero? Right?

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<v Speaker 3>Interesting? Interesting?

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<v Speaker 1>So if it's if it's a religious uh, or if

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<v Speaker 1>at least has religious origin or underpinnings or relation or

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<v Speaker 1>something like that. Jonathan, do you think this aligns at

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<v Speaker 1>all with like a humanist perspective? I mean, is this

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<v Speaker 1>something that we I'm assuming that we're all humanists here,

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<v Speaker 1>but if we're not, that's fine. But do you think

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<v Speaker 1>that it's something that humanists should actively support or is

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<v Speaker 1>it more just a chance for us to watch religious

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<v Speaker 1>people getting their undies all up in a bundle.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, not that I mind watching them get their undies

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<v Speaker 2>in a twist, but I think that Uh. I think

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<v Speaker 2>that if you are so inclined, if it's part of

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<v Speaker 2>your heritage and you like delving into a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of your own history as a person, then yeah, support it.

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<v Speaker 2>Go see it. I mean, it's always worth seeing. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean we go to Renfaars, right, I mean, people in

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<v Speaker 2>costumes in parades are fun. You know, I participated in

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<v Speaker 2>a few and it's really a lot of fun. So

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<v Speaker 2>if you're just going to have fun, humanists can have

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<v Speaker 2>fun too, So you know we need to we need

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<v Speaker 2>to support it in the sense that if you enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>doing that, fine, you know, as far as getting accustomed

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<v Speaker 2>to the Boogeyman. Yeah, we might have some leftover crap

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<v Speaker 2>we need to get accustomed to, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So, right, Kelly, I know that you have some personal

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<v Speaker 1>experience celebrating Crampus knocked of wondering if you would be

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<v Speaker 1>willing to share a little bit with us about your

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<v Speaker 1>your festivities there in your little corner of this of

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<v Speaker 1>the country.

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<v Speaker 4>Maybe maybe not. Cramp has knocked itself, like, I'm not

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<v Speaker 4>going on parading through my little town and at Crampus costume,

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<v Speaker 4>although now I know free snaps, I might start doing that.

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<v Speaker 4>But I have been big fan of the Crampis for decade,

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<v Speaker 4>Like like I showed off my Crampis shirt. I've had

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<v Speaker 4>this shirt for a good five or six years now.

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<v Speaker 4>If you don't wear him a Christmas time, they last forever.

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<v Speaker 4>And one of my good friends, knowing how much fan

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<v Speaker 4>I am with the Crampis, actually sent me this Crampus

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<v Speaker 4>Christmas tree ornament a couple of years ago. He's pretty cool.

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<v Speaker 4>And I don't have a Christmas tree. We put up

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<v Speaker 4>a festivist pole at my house, yes, we really really do,

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<v Speaker 4>and you can't put ornaments on it because it's too distracting,

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<v Speaker 4>so I.

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<v Speaker 2>Put it up here, and it's been here.

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<v Speaker 4>Even if you go back and look at my very

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<v Speaker 4>old videos, my crampus is hanging there. It's been there

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<v Speaker 4>for years now.

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<v Speaker 3>So is there an official day of for Festivus? Is

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<v Speaker 3>there like a day twenty third? All right, Stephen?

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<v Speaker 1>Before we wrap this one up, I just wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>get your perspective as somebody who's not American. Do they

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<v Speaker 1>have do they celebrate that you heard about this crampis

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<v Speaker 1>thing in Canadia?

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<v Speaker 3>Up there?

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<v Speaker 5>No? It has not popped up on my radar. But

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<v Speaker 5>I live in a rural area in one of the

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<v Speaker 5>I don't live in Toronto, So do I Am I

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<v Speaker 5>really a Canadian? Am I do I really count? Yeah? No,

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<v Speaker 5>it's not on my radar. But it's so your Thanksgiving

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<v Speaker 5>is in November?

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<v Speaker 3>Right, yes?

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, yeah, because even that, like ours, is in October,

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<v Speaker 5>so there's a there's a larger gap there between the

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<v Speaker 5>festivities there. Yeah, it's not. I'm sure, I'm like whatever,

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<v Speaker 5>especially in our modern age of information, I'm sure that

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<v Speaker 5>there are people, especially with the number of you know,

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<v Speaker 5>Eastern European Germanic immigrants, that are that our country is

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<v Speaker 5>made up of, built up.

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<v Speaker 3>Of you have big populations of German immigrants.

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<v Speaker 5>Especially more recently within the past couple of decades, especially

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<v Speaker 5>in my particular part of the country. But they're like

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<v Speaker 5>conservative Germans, so and be you Crampis.

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<v Speaker 3>Isn't not really the thing?

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<v Speaker 5>They probably not unless they have like crampest stockings underneath

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<v Speaker 5>their ankle link skirts.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Yeah, actually made me curious because I did all

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<v Speaker 4>or you know, found all the places in the US

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<v Speaker 4>where they had crampus celebrations and I just found out

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<v Speaker 4>that they do have a crampus parade in Kamloops, in Edmonton,

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<v Speaker 4>in Calgary, and in Toronto.

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<v Speaker 5>So that has just skipped over the middle of the prairies.

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<v Speaker 4>There, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>And Alberta. That's wild concerning. That's at like little mini Texas.

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<v Speaker 4>Right right, That's what I was thinking too. Isn't that

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<v Speaker 4>a weird place for in the beat? But yeah, that's that's.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe that's crazy enough.

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<v Speaker 1>This one is racing Macdavi in San Antonio right there

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle.

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<v Speaker 3>Of Texas, right.

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<v Speaker 4>Dallas is a big one too, really yeah yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Do they claim to be the biggest or the oldest

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<v Speaker 3>or they just.

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<v Speaker 4>No, no, we got you got nor leist with the

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<v Speaker 4>biggest and South Krok, Columbia, Right, Columbia, South Chorge, Charlotte,

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<v Speaker 4>South Carolina.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Columbia. That's where I used to live for a

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<v Speaker 2>year or so, my sister.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you attend the Crampis Festival? Is it a festival

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<v Speaker 3>or is it.

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<v Speaker 2>A I don't know because I've never I never heard.

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<v Speaker 3>Patrick's Day or is it more like a Halloween kind

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<v Speaker 3>of thing?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. You know, I never saw it. I

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<v Speaker 2>was in West Columbia and it's the state capitol though,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know.

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<v Speaker 4>It's like both you get dressed up and get drunk,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, so it's oh, that's a normal Halloween, and

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<v Speaker 4>us you can get dressed up.

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<v Speaker 2>Same like Saint Patrick's Day. You know, this is only

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<v Speaker 2>Saint Nicholas Day, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, all right, cool, Well, thanks everyone for talking

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<v Speaker 1>about cramp has Knocked with us tonight, and thank all

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<v Speaker 1>of you for listening and if you want to hear

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<v Speaker 1>any more of the