Speaker 1: Welcome to the nonprofits. Our first story this week takes
Speaker 1: a closer look at the way some Texans celebrate the
Speaker 1: holiday season. San Antonio's first ever Crampis parade in the
Speaker 1: King William neighborhood brought thousands to witness horned demons, witches,
Speaker 1: and Saint Nicholas figures celebrating Germanic traditions. While most enjoyed
Speaker 1: the festive atmosphere, some evangelical protesters took issue with the event,
Speaker 1: claiming it promoted fear and judgment for children dressed as Jesus.
Speaker 1: One protester carried across to defend the kids, while others
Speaker 1: denounced the parade with megaphones. Ironically, their objections seemed to
Speaker 1: boost attendance. Despite the controversy, the event was a hit,
Speaker 1: with participants celebrating San Antonio's vibrant cultural diversity and hoping
Speaker 1: to establish a new holiday tradition. This story was from
Speaker 1: TPR by Joey Palacios on December sixth, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: And So, first I want us to go over to Jonathan. Jonathan,
Speaker 1: I would like for you, if you can, to give
Speaker 1: give us a little bit of background on this cramp story.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about what Crampus is all about, and
Speaker 1: what are some of the origins and so forth.
Speaker 2: Sure it's a Germanic myth of Crampus. He is. He
Speaker 2: is a creature that is the polar opposite has turned
Speaker 2: into the polar opposite of Santa Claus on December fifth.
Speaker 2: If you are a naughty child, Crampus will find you
Speaker 2: and beat you or eat you, or some other diabotical
Speaker 2: parental blackmail to keep you in line. So the thought
Speaker 2: is that Crampus is derived from an earlier Perched. I
Speaker 2: can't pronounce that right. It's probably Slavic. But Perch was
Speaker 2: this devilish humanoid, goat like creature with a long neck
Speaker 2: like a giraffe. People wore costumes and marched in processions
Speaker 2: known as Perchase Laufen, and boy, I didn't pronounce that right.
Speaker 2: I apologize to German speakers everywhere. Eventually, person is Perch
Speaker 2: and Laufen or perch Run were introduced to Saint Nicholas
Speaker 2: and Perdue by the Catholic Church, who did like Perch
Speaker 2: but couldn't in the end. In the Anatolian Reader, not
Speaker 2: the Anatoley. The Alpine regions, they couldn't enforce the ban
Speaker 2: on it, so it persisted, and so they introduced Saint Nicholas,
Speaker 2: and they put Perch under this control of Saint Nicholas,
Speaker 2: or under the auspices of Saint Nicholas, and he became Crampis.
Speaker 2: Crampus became part of Saint Nicholas. This mythology in the
Speaker 2: Alpine regions uh Crampis Slough or Crampis Run parade was
Speaker 2: on December fifth, or Saint Nicholas's Day Eve. Usually usually
Speaker 2: the sixth was Saint December sixth was Saint Nicholas's Saints Stay.
Speaker 2: There is a lot of Lauren practices today in the Alpine,
Speaker 2: but just to be sure, Crampis is usually given schnopps.
Speaker 2: So if you want to keep on his good side,
Speaker 2: stock up and the person winter spirits can be supposedly
Speaker 2: be present from winter solstice to January sixth, so you
Speaker 2: know you might want to keep a lot of it
Speaker 2: on hand. The King William neighborhood itself is named after
Speaker 2: Wilhelm the first of Germany. So I'd like to just
Speaker 2: pass this myself, but Scott, do you want to sure?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, I want to pass it off to
Speaker 1: Kelly here, Kelly Jonathan was telling us about, you know,
Speaker 1: the history of the Crampis. Can you tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit more about how Crampis Knacht is celebrated today
Speaker 1: around the world.
Speaker 4: I can, And some of you may have noticed that
Speaker 4: I'm sands tied today and it's because I wore my
Speaker 4: Crampis t shirt. I'm an old fan of the Crampis.
Speaker 4: So the Crampus has been traditional in Central Europe, Austria, Slavinia, Germany,
Speaker 4: Czech Republic and Hungary, and there he's a common sight
Speaker 4: even in holiday markets throughout Austria, so everybody he knows
Speaker 4: who Crampis is. Crampis knock has become more and more
Speaker 4: popular in recent times though it is starting to spread
Speaker 4: around the world. We're seeing Crampus parades become widespread and
Speaker 4: as more and more people learn about the demon, he's
Speaker 4: appearing more and more in the media, which is how
Speaker 4: we got this story right. And there's even been a
Speaker 4: horror movie made about the Crampus. So one of the
Speaker 4: fun things that I like about it and is customary,
Speaker 4: and John mentioned it, is that you feed snaps through
Speaker 4: the crampits when they come parading through the town. Everybody
Speaker 4: has a bottle of snaps and glasses for the Crampis
Speaker 4: to drink from. So I mean, it kind of makes
Speaker 4: me want to make my own costume because that's one
Speaker 4: more day I could drink for free, right right.
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: Sounds like a awful though that might be your last,
Speaker 1: your last free drinks there.
Speaker 4: It's it's since about I'd say about ten to fifteen
Speaker 4: years ago. It started actually becoming popular in the US.
Speaker 4: In a lot of US cities. New York Portland have
Speaker 4: Crampis houses. They're like a Halloween haunted house, and they're
Speaker 4: open for one or more nights during the holiday season.
Speaker 4: New Orleans has a huge Crampist Knock parade. They claim
Speaker 4: it's the largest one in the country. I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: I didn't go down there and count, but I'm willing
Speaker 4: to believe it. Many other cities have parades as well,
Speaker 4: including Saint Paul, Minnesota. Saint Louis decided to base their
Speaker 4: Crampist Knocked more on the drinking aspect of it, and
Speaker 4: it's more like a pub crawl down in Saint Louis
Speaker 4: and Columbia. South Carolina also has a big Boozy Bash
Speaker 4: that they claim is actually the oldest crampist knock parade
Speaker 4: in the US. So there's a little bit about how
Speaker 4: people are celebrating it today.
Speaker 1: Cool, all right, thanks Kelly for sharing that with us. That, yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it'd be dangerous to be the crampis right,
Speaker 1: because if you just drinking schnaps all night, the possibilities
Speaker 1: for the evening get more and more diverse as you
Speaker 1: get further further on in that exactly, speaking of evil debauchery, Steven,
Speaker 1: I want to go to you next. I want you
Speaker 1: to talk about the right. I want you to talk
Speaker 1: about the Christians that were protesting. They were protesting. Why
Speaker 1: would they have a problem other than something being becoming
Speaker 1: more and more popular, which apparently is a thing. And
Speaker 1: you know, why would Christians be upset with this.
Speaker 5: Celebration besides the fact that it was something fun? Right?
Speaker 3: Besides that? Yes?
Speaker 5: Well yeah, yeah, well Evangelicals, they definitely are alarmed by
Speaker 5: anything that might be a celebration of darkness. Right. Philippian's
Speaker 5: for says, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right,
Speaker 5: whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if
Speaker 5: anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such thing and
Speaker 5: that kind of gives them that impetus to say that
Speaker 5: anything that is you know, spooky, scary, dark should be
Speaker 5: forced away from our attention. We shouldn't be glorifying these
Speaker 5: things that aren't you know, bright and light and from God,
Speaker 5: which is just so so so selective, I guess from
Speaker 5: from my perspective, Like the idea of not you know,
Speaker 5: tainting Christmas with this dark, spooky, scary stuff is so
Speaker 5: wild to me because Christmas is, you know, the Christian
Speaker 5: celebration of Christmas is about a child being born on
Speaker 5: around Christmas so that he could be raised like a
Speaker 5: lamb for slaughtering, to be crucified to death, so that
Speaker 5: God's children can escape an eternity of torture. And that
Speaker 5: that seems pretty dark to me, pretty damn dark. You
Speaker 5: don't get to have one without the other. Kettle thout
Speaker 5: namest as black, like, yeah, it's it's so selective, and
Speaker 5: I honestly, I think it comes down to just this
Speaker 5: idea of Christians. You know, they've had such unmitigated cultural
Speaker 5: attention for so long, and as those things subside with time,
Speaker 5: then they are going to make a stink. Because again,
Speaker 5: it's not persecution, it's just the way that we are
Speaker 5: evolving as a society, and that is hard for people
Speaker 5: who have experienced a long term privilege to understand.
Speaker 3: Except I think you said the magic P word there.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that's going to be showing up
Speaker 1: periodically throughout the evening tonight.
Speaker 3: Let's go back to it. Let's go back to Jonathan
Speaker 3: real quick here.
Speaker 1: Jonathan, what do you think the motivation behind the celebration
Speaker 1: not just for the people of San Antonio, but for
Speaker 1: people worldwide, as Kelly was saying, celebrating this. Is it
Speaker 1: really just a callback to the ethnic origins of the
Speaker 1: people that are organizing the celebration, or is it intended
Speaker 1: to be like a poke in the eye against Christians?
Speaker 1: Or is it just like in Saint Louis, Is it
Speaker 1: just an excuse to just have a party and get drunk.
Speaker 2: Let me see, hmm, well, this is this is an
Speaker 2: interesting thought because it's a I think it has a
Speaker 2: little bit of nuance to it. I think there's a
Speaker 2: bunch of it. I think that people want tonight in
Speaker 2: that time of they you know, the prior holiday was Thanksgiving, right,
Speaker 2: so I think people are ready, they've recovered from Thanksgiving,
Speaker 2: it's the holiday season. They want something between that and Christmas,
Speaker 2: so you know, in this particular holiday that just happened
Speaker 2: to fill it. And you know, and also that it
Speaker 2: doesn't hurt that they're kind of poking fun at Christmas,
Speaker 2: you know. And that's why the diehard evangelicals are you know,
Speaker 2: losing their shorts over this one. You know, but they
Speaker 2: do that with anything that they just don't want us
Speaker 2: to have, you know. So But and then the other
Speaker 2: side of it is like any good German october Fest
Speaker 2: is you know, in their mind, my mind all the time.
Speaker 2: So it's like another chance to go out and party
Speaker 2: with your friends, right, And it's just I think that's
Speaker 2: a lot of the motivation. I think the motivation for
Speaker 2: this particular one was that it was seen as a
Speaker 2: contest between the evangelicals and whatever, you know, and so
Speaker 2: people came because they wanted to see what the fuss
Speaker 2: was all about. It's like the freeway, see an accident,
Speaker 2: everybody slows down to take a look. Well, these two
Speaker 2: things are going to clash. Let's go watch the fight, right,
Speaker 2: And it turned out that it was just a good
Speaker 2: time apparently for everybody. So and the evangelical backlash sort
Speaker 2: of fizzled out to nothing. Bullhorns, you know, they might
Speaker 2: initially be a problem if there's only a few people,
Speaker 2: but when there are thousands of people, bullhorns don't mean anything.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 1: Well, like they said in the article, the you know,
Speaker 1: the protest brought more people down.
Speaker 2: It definitely, it did bring much more because of the advertisement,
Speaker 2: you know, because the churches decided to make it a thing.
Speaker 2: Everybody said, cool, let's go watch this. Yeah, so they're
Speaker 2: hoping to make it a big thing every year. Now
Speaker 2: that's the other thing. They might have backfired completely and
Speaker 2: have a crampas knock every year, you know, on December fifth.
Speaker 2: That would be excellent and my German side family would
Speaker 2: be please.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Stephen, what did do you want to add
Speaker 3: something in here?
Speaker 5: Yeah, just like I believe I'm not the psychologist here,
Speaker 5: but I think that there's also an understanding that we
Speaker 5: as humans, we do we experience fear, and fear is
Speaker 5: something scary and the best way to deal with that,
Speaker 5: to get over that that monster under the bed or
Speaker 5: in the closet, is to look it in the face
Speaker 5: and to be around it. And that's the way that
Speaker 5: that we as you know humans as creatures as we
Speaker 5: can deal with fear and make it more manageable. So
Speaker 5: like a celebration like this and Halloween and d O
Speaker 5: stella Maritos, like they're all about making scary things less scary,
Speaker 5: and fear is like a cornerstone that the church is
Speaker 5: built off of. Like if they want to control you
Speaker 5: and your behavior, they really really benefit from having this,
Speaker 5: you know, sort of damocles hanging over your head, the
Speaker 5: fact that, oh, if you don't comply, you may just
Speaker 5: end up burning in hell, unless you're Calounists, in which
Speaker 5: case you don't know if you want to end up
Speaker 5: in hell or not. But but fear is so important
Speaker 5: that they really need to like have the corner on
Speaker 5: that market. And if we as a society aren't as
Speaker 5: prone to fear, then that makes us just less prone
Speaker 5: to the manipulations of the Church. So I can understand
Speaker 5: why they would be concerned that people are enjoying things
Speaker 5: around when in the month of December that aren't that
Speaker 5: they don't.
Speaker 1: So you think the Christians are worried about somebody's horning
Speaker 1: in on their territory.
Speaker 5: That there might be on the territory interesting or at
Speaker 5: least yeah, the the the mystifying and making figures less scary.
Speaker 1: Interesting take on that, Kelly, Let's let's jump back to you.
Speaker 1: Would you consider this a secular celebration. I'm we talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about it's it's kind of in the
Speaker 1: eye of Christians.
Speaker 4: It's is it really in the eye of Christians though,
Speaker 4: or is it just like right along with Christianity? Like
Speaker 4: Stephen was pointed out, you got Christ has to have
Speaker 4: something to save you from, right, and and here is
Speaker 4: here's this thing that's going to get the bad kids,
Speaker 4: throw them in a sack. And where's he bringing him to?
Speaker 4: He's bringing him down to Hell? And let's face it,
Speaker 4: Hell is a Christian invention. So no, this isn't a
Speaker 4: secular thing. This is totally a Christian tradition, you know,
Speaker 4: a Christian holiday if you think about it.
Speaker 3: Whi's kind of off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right exactly, which you know, like in your introduction
Speaker 4: you mentioned the guy with the cross defending the kids,
Speaker 4: and I was I got this weird vision of my
Speaker 4: head with the guys swinging and around and.
Speaker 3: Of all the mission accomplished. Scott then.
Speaker 4: Gotta be God's hero? Right?
Speaker 3: Interesting? Interesting?
Speaker 1: So if it's if it's a religious uh, or if
Speaker 1: at least has religious origin or underpinnings or relation or
Speaker 1: something like that. Jonathan, do you think this aligns at
Speaker 1: all with like a humanist perspective? I mean, is this
Speaker 1: something that we I'm assuming that we're all humanists here,
Speaker 1: but if we're not, that's fine. But do you think
Speaker 1: that it's something that humanists should actively support or is
Speaker 1: it more just a chance for us to watch religious
Speaker 1: people getting their undies all up in a bundle.
Speaker 2: Well, not that I mind watching them get their undies
Speaker 2: in a twist, but I think that Uh. I think
Speaker 2: that if you are so inclined, if it's part of
Speaker 2: your heritage and you like delving into a little bit
Speaker 2: of your own history as a person, then yeah, support it.
Speaker 2: Go see it. I mean, it's always worth seeing. I
Speaker 2: mean we go to Renfaars, right, I mean, people in
Speaker 2: costumes in parades are fun. You know, I participated in
Speaker 2: a few and it's really a lot of fun. So
Speaker 2: if you're just going to have fun, humanists can have
Speaker 2: fun too, So you know we need to we need
Speaker 2: to support it in the sense that if you enjoy
Speaker 2: doing that, fine, you know, as far as getting accustomed
Speaker 2: to the Boogeyman. Yeah, we might have some leftover crap
Speaker 2: we need to get accustomed to, you know.
Speaker 1: So, right, Kelly, I know that you have some personal
Speaker 1: experience celebrating Crampus knocked of wondering if you would be
Speaker 1: willing to share a little bit with us about your
Speaker 1: your festivities there in your little corner of this of
Speaker 1: the country.
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe not. Cramp has knocked itself, like, I'm not
Speaker 4: going on parading through my little town and at Crampus costume,
Speaker 4: although now I know free snaps, I might start doing that.
Speaker 4: But I have been big fan of the Crampis for decade,
Speaker 4: Like like I showed off my Crampis shirt. I've had
Speaker 4: this shirt for a good five or six years now.
Speaker 4: If you don't wear him a Christmas time, they last forever.
Speaker 4: And one of my good friends, knowing how much fan
Speaker 4: I am with the Crampis, actually sent me this Crampus
Speaker 4: Christmas tree ornament a couple of years ago. He's pretty cool.
Speaker 4: And I don't have a Christmas tree. We put up
Speaker 4: a festivist pole at my house, yes, we really really do,
Speaker 4: and you can't put ornaments on it because it's too distracting,
Speaker 4: so I.
Speaker 2: Put it up here, and it's been here.
Speaker 4: Even if you go back and look at my very
Speaker 4: old videos, my crampus is hanging there. It's been there
Speaker 4: for years now.
Speaker 3: So is there an official day of for Festivus? Is
Speaker 3: there like a day twenty third? All right, Stephen?
Speaker 1: Before we wrap this one up, I just wanted to
Speaker 1: get your perspective as somebody who's not American. Do they
Speaker 1: have do they celebrate that you heard about this crampis
Speaker 1: thing in Canadia?
Speaker 3: Up there?
Speaker 5: No? It has not popped up on my radar. But
Speaker 5: I live in a rural area in one of the
Speaker 5: I don't live in Toronto, So do I Am I
Speaker 5: really a Canadian? Am I do I really count? Yeah? No,
Speaker 5: it's not on my radar. But it's so your Thanksgiving
Speaker 5: is in November?
Speaker 3: Right, yes?
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, because even that, like ours, is in October,
Speaker 5: so there's a there's a larger gap there between the
Speaker 5: festivities there. Yeah, it's not. I'm sure, I'm like whatever,
Speaker 5: especially in our modern age of information, I'm sure that
Speaker 5: there are people, especially with the number of you know,
Speaker 5: Eastern European Germanic immigrants, that are that our country is
Speaker 5: made up of, built up.
Speaker 3: Of you have big populations of German immigrants.
Speaker 5: Especially more recently within the past couple of decades, especially
Speaker 5: in my particular part of the country. But they're like
Speaker 5: conservative Germans, so and be you Crampis.
Speaker 3: Isn't not really the thing?
Speaker 5: They probably not unless they have like crampest stockings underneath
Speaker 5: their ankle link skirts.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, actually made me curious because I did all
Speaker 4: or you know, found all the places in the US
Speaker 4: where they had crampus celebrations and I just found out
Speaker 4: that they do have a crampus parade in Kamloops, in Edmonton,
Speaker 4: in Calgary, and in Toronto.
Speaker 5: So that has just skipped over the middle of the prairies.
Speaker 4: There, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: And Alberta. That's wild concerning. That's at like little mini Texas.
Speaker 4: Right right, That's what I was thinking too. Isn't that
Speaker 4: a weird place for in the beat? But yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's crazy enough.
Speaker 1: This one is racing Macdavi in San Antonio right there
Speaker 1: in the middle.
Speaker 3: Of Texas, right.
Speaker 4: Dallas is a big one too, really yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: Do they claim to be the biggest or the oldest
Speaker 3: or they just.
Speaker 4: No, no, we got you got nor leist with the
Speaker 4: biggest and South Krok, Columbia, Right, Columbia, South Chorge, Charlotte,
Speaker 4: South Carolina.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Columbia. That's where I used to live for a
Speaker 2: year or so, my sister.
Speaker 3: Did you attend the Crampis Festival? Is it a festival
Speaker 3: or is it.
Speaker 2: A I don't know because I've never I never heard.
Speaker 3: Patrick's Day or is it more like a Halloween kind
Speaker 3: of thing?
Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, I never saw it. I
Speaker 2: was in West Columbia and it's the state capitol though,
Speaker 2: so you know.
Speaker 4: It's like both you get dressed up and get drunk,
Speaker 4: you know, so it's oh, that's a normal Halloween, and
Speaker 4: us you can get dressed up.
Speaker 2: Same like Saint Patrick's Day. You know, this is only
Speaker 2: Saint Nicholas Day, you know.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, cool, Well, thanks everyone for talking
Speaker 1: about cramp has Knocked with us tonight, and thank all
Speaker 1: of you for listening and if you want to hear
Speaker 1: any more of the