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<v Speaker 1>But welcome to Jewish History Uncensored with Mark Shapiro. This

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<v Speaker 1>is season sixteen, episode thirty six.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, hello everyone, Welcome again, especially for those of us

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<v Speaker 2>in the New York area living through the biggest snowstorm

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<v Speaker 2>we've had in many years. I want to begin. Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 2>we lost three more important people this week. If you're

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<v Speaker 2>not aware of it, I'll share it with you. Say

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<v Speaker 2>something about each one. The first is they called himr

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<v Speaker 2>of Dovad Rachellem David Slivachik, the son of Revel, although

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<v Speaker 2>really the last person born in Brisk who could have

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<v Speaker 2>would have remembered the Torah world of brisk obviously, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>someone who carried on the Brisker dynasty, the Brisker method.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me say one interesting point about him, though, because

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<v Speaker 2>if you know a bit about brisk you'll know that

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<v Speaker 2>he was very extreme and big anti Zionist, all sorts

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<v Speaker 2>of extreme stuff. But he's not sot Mar. And what

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<v Speaker 2>I mean by this is, as follows the sool in

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<v Speaker 2>my opinion of Sotmar, isn't the Antiseionism. I mean that's

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<v Speaker 2>people in his freedom of thought, if they want to

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<v Speaker 2>be Antizialionists. Of course, I don't like it if they

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<v Speaker 2>are ally with non Jews against Israel, but usually they don't.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm not such a Mazaki person that it bothers

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<v Speaker 2>me so much if wants to be anti Zionist. What

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<v Speaker 2>bothers me is that I think is the real sool

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<v Speaker 2>is that the degrade tower scholars that are not in

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<v Speaker 2>their camp. And we have we saw that you vote

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<v Speaker 2>of rebbel Avi nearror of Hero's hanking about this that

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<v Speaker 2>was never a trait in the Salivachik family. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>you can look in uh if you're just interested, you

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<v Speaker 2>can go to u shii a.

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<v Speaker 3>V.

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<v Speaker 2>Michilimdsalavchik Drushagada. I found one of the volumes in which,

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<v Speaker 2>after pages of blasting Zionism how terrible it is. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you think that, uh, he thinks Zionism destroys the

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<v Speaker 2>hope for Misha. If you think there's anything positive in

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<v Speaker 2>the state of Israel, you have a problem, Uh, real

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<v Speaker 2>extremist stuff. But then he says, and listen carefully to this, Sarmadabri.

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<v Speaker 2>He says everything we said. This is after all the

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<v Speaker 2>pages about how Zaionism is the worst possible thing. He says,

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<v Speaker 2>Zehu al Hashita. He says, this is referring to the

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<v Speaker 2>the idea, the Lolas al zelba an ashimh Redem a

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<v Speaker 2>feel and he explains that we're not talking about individuals.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you have Orthodox Jews who make a mistake

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<v Speaker 2>and who follows Zionism a sore. He says, it's forbidden

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<v Speaker 2>to degrade a Tamadraham and you have to at least

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<v Speaker 2>hegi mam, but dere herritz and uh. And he goes

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<v Speaker 2>on that this is He says, in all the years,

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<v Speaker 2>I never heard my father degrade anyone, and also Rebraim

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<v Speaker 2>never would degrade anyone. We know Repaiim Dafko went to

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<v Speaker 2>the funeral of Schmoll Mulliver to let people know that

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<v Speaker 2>the dispute was only an ideological the early Desionists. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>it's Zionist, but also he's a good Obisroo to know

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<v Speaker 2>that the dispute was only ideological, and this is a trait.

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<v Speaker 2>Even ruff Cook is respected by the cell of HX.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's although philosophically they are no different, and I

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't say they're no different than somethmore because their opposition

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<v Speaker 2>to Zionism is not because the Gimos, the three. It's

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<v Speaker 2>because of the heretical nature of secular Zionism, and also

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<v Speaker 2>they thought that establishing the state would lead to mass

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<v Speaker 2>uh deaths of Jews in the war. But in practice

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<v Speaker 2>they're the same as Satmar and the toy Kart and

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<v Speaker 2>the rest. They do not believe there should be a state. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>there should there shouldn't have been a state there They

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<v Speaker 2>they think Zionism is a demonic basically, Uh, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>way of turning Jews into irreligious like the Gulib. But

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of how you deal with people who are Zionists,

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<v Speaker 2>so we know that in some are they degrade routinely,

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<v Speaker 2>not just Zionist rabbis, that they would degrade Ruby Steinmann,

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<v Speaker 2>all sorts of there is unfortunately, all about degrading people

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<v Speaker 2>disagree with them. It's an unbelievable sort of backwards type

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<v Speaker 2>of education. But among the Briskers it's not that way.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the Sheita, only the Sheita, and uh, look they're

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<v Speaker 2>they're entitled to have to have that view. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the famous story that Revolval was very friendly

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<v Speaker 2>with for Mayor Barilane. So one then Mayor Bilan, his

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<v Speaker 2>relative was once visiting him. So someone one of the

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<v Speaker 2>extremists says, why are you so friendly with him? He's

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<v Speaker 2>as a Zionist, So he said, he's Mischbacher, he's family.

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<v Speaker 2>So for family, you know, that goes for the riskers

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<v Speaker 2>above all ideological conflicts. So someone else, another rabbi was there, said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>then then we should feel the same thing with Riff Cook.

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<v Speaker 2>He thinks that all I've called you throw was his family.

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<v Speaker 2>So why do we criticize riff Cook for reaching out

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<v Speaker 2>to the irreligious. Uh, he's in his mind they're all family.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's he's ninety nine years old. So but you know,

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<v Speaker 2>at that age, when you get the virus, it's tough.

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<v Speaker 2>The next person who we lost this week the same day,

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<v Speaker 2>actually is Rabbi Shiner, Vitzak Shiner. He's the Russishiva, the

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<v Speaker 2>comminists Yeshiva. He's born in America, Pittsburgh. He was he

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<v Speaker 2>learned in yu or in those days is called Yeshivak,

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<v Speaker 2>and then he went to Tarvadas. It says here he

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<v Speaker 2>taught in Montreal, Switzerland. In the sixties. He was a

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<v Speaker 2>rebby became closer to Birik of Weinberg, and then he

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<v Speaker 2>became head of the Kaminists Yeshiva. In fact, here I'll

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<v Speaker 2>show you a tidbit for those here. This comes from Hamasmid,

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<v Speaker 2>which was in nineteen forty the Yeshiva college magazine or

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<v Speaker 2>you knew not magazine, a yearbook. And here it has

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<v Speaker 2>a picture of the chess team. And let me enlarge

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<v Speaker 2>it for you a little bit. And who's on the

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<v Speaker 2>chess team none other than is a door shiner. Is

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<v Speaker 2>the door shiner is none other than Rabbi Jitsak shin Er.

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<v Speaker 2>The problem is, I don't know who which one of

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<v Speaker 2>these The picture is not that clear. I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 2>which one is Rabbi Shiner. I guess I could figure

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<v Speaker 2>it out if I enlarged it enough. But he was

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<v Speaker 2>on the chess team, and uh, big Rosseshiva, big tim

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<v Speaker 2>of Hacham. So that's unfortunate. And finally, the last one

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<v Speaker 2>we lost, and we mentioned him last week that he

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<v Speaker 2>was ill, is Rabbi Abraham Towrski therapist speak. Just so

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<v Speaker 2>you remember one thing, Rabbi doctor Abraham Towrsky invented something

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<v Speaker 2>that we all know. Well, So let me just play

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<v Speaker 2>it for you.

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<v Speaker 3>The week before married, and I was dovening, and I

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<v Speaker 3>remember the spot not that I was at in the

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<v Speaker 3>shool and I was dovening chakras, and I came to

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<v Speaker 3>the phrase because she right we asked. I said, save

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<v Speaker 3>your help your people, and bless your inheritance, live in love,

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<v Speaker 3>and elevate them unto eternity. And as I was saying that,

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<v Speaker 3>I started thinking to myself as he was. Next week

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<v Speaker 3>the week after that, my younger brother got married, So

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<v Speaker 3>I sang it at his wedding, and it caught on

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<v Speaker 3>and some people were at the wedding and went to

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<v Speaker 3>Israel and they brought us son to Israel. And a

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<v Speaker 3>few weeks later a neton tune came from Israel, and

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<v Speaker 3>this was the tune. It was a brass a song

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<v Speaker 3>with a braslidon.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>Then later I heard it's a how bad song?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, what do I care?

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<v Speaker 3>I can't copyright it anyway, right, So.

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<v Speaker 2>That's uh how sia the song We all know that's

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<v Speaker 2>from Abram Tursky. But that's not why he he's you know, important,

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<v Speaker 2>he's important for all he did in terms of addictions

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<v Speaker 2>and all sorts of psychotherapy and Judaism. So another big

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<v Speaker 2>loss a couple other things. Things. I've been having conversations

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<v Speaker 2>with the r C a city they needed to know

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<v Speaker 2>where they're trying to figure out, now what to do

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of a vice president who's a woman, how

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<v Speaker 2>do you call her? And we say, uh, nasiv s minehu,

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<v Speaker 2>what should we do? So in Israel, apparently you know,

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<v Speaker 2>segan is used, uh, And I learned that for vice

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<v Speaker 2>president the word is segan meet remember not so that

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<v Speaker 2>that we we had this discussion about the uh you

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<v Speaker 2>know this youod tough endings. So even though I originally

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<v Speaker 2>assumed it's, uh, it's a strange ending, that's uh, that's

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<v Speaker 2>what it is.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>Two more things Ravaril from marriage I saw writes we

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<v Speaker 2>saw her by Kats's past thing about violating shabas if

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<v Speaker 2>you're under addiction. He just wants to stress that experience

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<v Speaker 2>has shown that alcohol and drug addictions are not like

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<v Speaker 2>other addictions that uh, once you uh, it's uh if

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<v Speaker 2>you fall back, it could uh it could really lead

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<v Speaker 2>you down really a terrible slippery salt. So it's really

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<v Speaker 2>different than the other case. So we were speaking about

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<v Speaker 2>Robert says, we spoke about the Kousenberger's Rebby's hatred of

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<v Speaker 2>non Jews, and I raised the issue that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we have these rabbis that we don't want to disown him.

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<v Speaker 2>I just raised in my mind the question of Farakahn,

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<v Speaker 2>that we have a problem where you know, in the

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<v Speaker 2>black community they don't want to disown him. And I

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<v Speaker 2>raised the issue that you know, I see where they're

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<v Speaker 2>coming from, because we sometimes can also have the problem

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<v Speaker 2>about Victor Miller, for instance. I mean, some of the

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<v Speaker 2>stuff he says is outrageous, really really racist stuff. Does

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<v Speaker 2>that mean we just get rid of him? So it's so,

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<v Speaker 2>But Robert writes that Farrakhan's different because he no longer

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<v Speaker 2>he used to be a fringe character, but now you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's recognized by the leadership of the Women's March and

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<v Speaker 2>several congress people. Different ballgame. Look, obviously I wish Faraghin

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<v Speaker 2>would be gone. He's all trouble, evil man. But that's

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<v Speaker 2>not what I was talking about. What I was talking

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<v Speaker 2>about was the the issue that so for instance, that

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<v Speaker 2>black politicians just seemed to be connected. This picture incidentally,

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<v Speaker 2>never came out during the election. A black photographer took

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<v Speaker 2>it and one published a picture till after Obama was

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<v Speaker 2>no longer in office because he thought that would doom

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<v Speaker 2>his presidency. Uh, and we have. It's the only point

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to make is that it's I see

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<v Speaker 2>from the black perspective that they they like so many

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<v Speaker 2>of the things. He says, that they often find it

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<v Speaker 2>hard for them to condemn him completely, even though I

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<v Speaker 2>like them too. I wish they would. But all I

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<v Speaker 2>was saying is that I get it to a certain degree,

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<v Speaker 2>because we have that problem as well. And one of

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<v Speaker 2>the rabbis in my book, redouve le Or, someone wrote

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<v Speaker 2>to me saying it was a disgrace that I included

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<v Speaker 2>a letter from him, because he's a racist, they say,

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, I don't. I don't know what where

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<v Speaker 2>to draw the line. Two more things we spoke. I

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<v Speaker 2>gave you my spiel last time that I think that

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<v Speaker 2>the Extrasidium, that what they're doing, it's like a form

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<v Speaker 2>of reform Judaism, not caring about the hm, not caring

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<v Speaker 2>about the haahas of the kach Nefesh. And then I

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<v Speaker 2>said the fact that they're strict in all these areas,

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<v Speaker 2>so what the sad uses are strict? The Carwrts were strict,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes more than the rabbis and all and behold in

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<v Speaker 2>Rabbi Mazusa's Parsha sheet last week, what is he cites

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<v Speaker 2>an example of the cart rights. I mean I knew

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<v Speaker 2>the example, but I'll show you.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>He speaks about this example that it's in u vayikro

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<v Speaker 2>what are we here? Chapter three? If you look in

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<v Speaker 2>this pusak verse nine where it talks about hello, oh

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<v Speaker 2>ah yeah, which it's we translate the choice part of

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<v Speaker 2>the tail. But the car rights understood this as like

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<v Speaker 2>connected the ray lev that's uh, and they connected just

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<v Speaker 2>like you can't eat the ray lev. You can't eat

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<v Speaker 2>the uh, the tail, whereas we think you can eat

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<v Speaker 2>the tail. So there's an example where the car rights

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<v Speaker 2>were stricter than us. Look, I there's an old joke

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<v Speaker 2>which they say, why do we say in Rashon Zamerbach

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<v Speaker 2>actually said this, Why does it say and done else?

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<v Speaker 2>Sadiki valrasidim? Why do we put sadiki before hasidim? Because

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<v Speaker 2>you don't start up with hassidium, you know in MASDM

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<v Speaker 2>so uh, I don't want to start up with them.

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<v Speaker 2>That's my opinion. Okay, Then the last thing I want

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<v Speaker 2>to say before we begin, and we have lots of

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<v Speaker 2>good stuff. Is uh, you know this is a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>unique class, and that we have people who are not

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<v Speaker 2>in the Orthodox world who listen to it on YouTube.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if live. We have people monern Orthodox,

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<v Speaker 2>we have people right wing, we have Harasidi, we have Sotomore,

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<v Speaker 2>we have so a lot of people know things about

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<v Speaker 2>certain things, they don't know things about other things. So

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<v Speaker 2>let me just take two minutes because someone emails me

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<v Speaker 2>and uh, ask any question about because we dealt earlier

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<v Speaker 2>questions about Coalesha and what I'm going to tell you

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<v Speaker 2>now might be shocking for some of them. But I'm

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not the rabbi here. I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 2>defend you know, you can ask your Agoras. I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>telling you how it is in the modern Orthodox world.

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<v Speaker 2>Coalesha is not taking the way it is in the

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<v Speaker 2>Haaradi world. You can see, for instance, most recently r

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<v Speaker 2>emotional listen sing as a whole piece on this. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>just read you his conclusion. He wrote in Hebrew and

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<v Speaker 2>English that he says we may summarize as follows under

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<v Speaker 2>circumstances in which the song does not arouse sexual desire,

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<v Speaker 2>does not emphasize femininity in a sensual manner, and the

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<v Speaker 2>listener estimates that he will not come to have sexual thoughts.

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<v Speaker 2>We should not forbid listening to a woman's voice. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's all based on individual feelings. And then he says,

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<v Speaker 2>this means that nero is not a problem participation in

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<v Speaker 2>official ceremonies. You can hear a woman do star spangled

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<v Speaker 2>banner or anything that you know. It's up to you individually.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's what he says. Now, the fact is that

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<v Speaker 2>as far as I know, every single modern Orthodox school

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<v Speaker 2>in America has girls singing, usually singing in groups, but

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes it at least as of a couple of years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Ramas Yeshiva of North Shore women girls solos as well. Furthermore,

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<v Speaker 2>it goes more than this. I'm gonna show you something

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<v Speaker 2>right now which will be astounding. It's not just and

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<v Speaker 2>it's not even a street acous head there because we're

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<v Speaker 2>not dealing with holy songs. You have a yeshiva competition

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<v Speaker 2>battle of the bands in a New York area of

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<v Speaker 2>all the yeshivas modern orthodoxyeshivas, even the more right wings participate.

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<v Speaker 2>Massifta of Woodbury participates, and girls sing. So I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 2>show you something. If it troubles you can turn away

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<v Speaker 2>or something. But I'll just show you quickly so you

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<v Speaker 2>know what I'm talking about. And I'm doing this for

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<v Speaker 2>you in the Haredi world to listen because I know

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna be astounded by this. And again I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>here to defend or anything. I'm just saying this is

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<v Speaker 2>what it is. I'm gonna show you Maya Note to

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<v Speaker 2>her second place. And this is in the Monerothos world.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not surprising, but here these are girls from

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<v Speaker 2>Maya Note, which is a separate sex school in Bergen

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<v Speaker 2>County that we already said it's it should be Maya Note,

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<v Speaker 2>but they call it Maya Notes. So just watch this

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<v Speaker 2>for a second and understand this is uh this and

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<v Speaker 2>this takes place every year when you can have Yeshiva

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<v Speaker 2>competition and this is for boys and girls night stay up,

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<v Speaker 2>cashing in my badup some nights, a co h D

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<v Speaker 2>some night and it's real performance, like look still not

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<v Speaker 2>shine for.

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<v Speaker 3>Why don't we bring the rules already? I would never

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<v Speaker 3>want high.

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<v Speaker 2>So obviously this would never happen in the Harabian You

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<v Speaker 2>just think this is crazy. But by the way, I

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<v Speaker 2>think even the boys singing is crazy, because why should

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<v Speaker 2>at Yeshiva? You could say, I mean sing secular songs

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<v Speaker 2>like this massiffa woorder buried the Jewish songs. I'll give

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<v Speaker 2>you an example. These are the guys who won first place.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like new sunglasses, like a brand new So

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<v Speaker 2>this is not unusual for anyone who lives in the

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<v Speaker 2>New York area knows the modern Orthodox schools. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just giving this because the question I was asked about

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<v Speaker 2>girls singing, it's like so far out of left field

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<v Speaker 2>without any understanding of what actually takes place in the

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<v Speaker 2>modern Orthodox that you can actually have events where girls,

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<v Speaker 2>granted are singing together, but still are actually performing and

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<v Speaker 2>running around on the stage. And that's that's I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>you have that in Israel. Also on the religious ignness.

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<v Speaker 2>But let me leave that at there. Okay, everyone, let

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<v Speaker 2>us return to where we were. We were getting into

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<v Speaker 2>the rum bomb again. I'm gonna show you some interesting things.

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<v Speaker 2>And I do want to actually correct something I said

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<v Speaker 2>last class when I said that the rum bomb, because

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<v Speaker 2>this is gonna be relevant to what we're gonna do

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<v Speaker 2>today as well, I said he doesn't have a problem

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<v Speaker 2>with someone thinking God has emotions. I shouldn't have used

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<v Speaker 2>that language. He of course he has a problem because

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<v Speaker 2>you're not supposed to think God has emotions. What I

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<v Speaker 2>meant is that he doesn't regard you as a heretic.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not one of the thirteen principles anything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So he can be a little he's a little laid back,

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<v Speaker 2>and if people make the mistake, and they don't. The

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<v Speaker 2>Rambamb in a number of places is willing to allow

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<v Speaker 2>the masses even if it's wrong to carry on with

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<v Speaker 2>mistaken ideas. So, for instance, one of the most famous

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<v Speaker 2>examples of this is as follows, what does the Rambam

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<v Speaker 2>say in the missionatoah hijos Massuza which chapter four he

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<v Speaker 2>says alahafour. It's a common custom to write God's name

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<v Speaker 2>Shahdae on the outside of masusa, opposite the empty space

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<v Speaker 2>left between the two passages. There's no difficulty in this

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<v Speaker 2>since the addition is made outside. Those however, who write

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<v Speaker 2>the names of angels, sacred names, et cetera, on the

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<v Speaker 2>inside of the mezuza have no share in the world

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<v Speaker 2>to come because they knowify the Mitzvah. They turn the

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<v Speaker 2>Mitzvah into a kamea talisman. The round bomb thinks it's foolish.

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<v Speaker 2>It's meaningless to write God's name on the outside. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>but you're not affecting the Mitzvah. There's nothing about the Mitzvah.

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<v Speaker 2>You're just doing something foolish. So I people want to

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<v Speaker 2>do something foolish, that's okay. Well, when you're actually on

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<v Speaker 2>the inside, in the cloth where the Hebrew writing is,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're gonna write gods, special holy names and angels

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<v Speaker 2>names there, then you're getting involved in the Mitzvah, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's that has to be uprooted. That's incorrect. So the

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<v Speaker 2>round Boumb's tolerant. I said this to a friend of

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<v Speaker 2>mine because a friend of mine, a very learned guy

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<v Speaker 2>in t Neck. You might listen to some of the classes.

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<v Speaker 2>He wrote a letter to the Jewish Link last year,

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<v Speaker 2>because the Jewish Link publishes the most crazy stuff sometimes.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually it was two years ago. I mean, you have

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<v Speaker 2>people coming to read poems. Once someone came bring holy water.

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<v Speaker 2>You know Jews have holy wooter too, And you have

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<v Speaker 2>these cabalists, a self style cabalists that you can call

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<v Speaker 2>and meet them. It's like they take out these big

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<v Speaker 2>ads that Rabbi so and so will be meeting people.

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<v Speaker 2>You have a woman who comes and she has this

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<v Speaker 2>molten lid. She does hocus pocus to remove the ion ara.

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<v Speaker 2>And he writes an article saying there that this is

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<v Speaker 2>this is an outrage and this is a him and

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<v Speaker 2>it's a disgrace. And I wrote to him, I said, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the raal mom is more tolerant that if

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't if people feel they get something from it. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the rom Im is willing to let it

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<v Speaker 2>slide as long as it's not you're not taking the

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<v Speaker 2>midst of itself and using it as a as an amulet.

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<v Speaker 2>If people want to have their their their gatherings where

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<v Speaker 2>they all these sort of things they do, they're hollow

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<v Speaker 2>baking and all that for the the to get rid

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<v Speaker 2>of the ion horahs. Uh, the ra Mom's okay with

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<v Speaker 2>all of that. Now, this is going to be very

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<v Speaker 2>relevant to what you do with what we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>see now, because we're going to see something where the

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<v Speaker 2>ram Mom is not so tolerant of. And before we

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<v Speaker 2>get into that, I need to show you, uh a

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<v Speaker 2>the rombum. The Rumbam says as follows, there actually is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's a rare book and that it's very hard

361
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<v Speaker 2>to find, but it's a there's a translation of Safer

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<v Speaker 2>Mada of the Rumbam together with the commentary. There's there's

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<v Speaker 2>the criticisms of the rivad and a little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a commentary by the translator. The translated's name is rabby

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<v Speaker 2>Simon Glaser. He was a rabbi in a number of

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<v Speaker 2>places in America. Also was a rabbi earlier in in

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<v Speaker 2>Canada in Montreal. I believe it was not Toronto. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it was Montreal. In one of Ira Robinson's books

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<v Speaker 2>about the rabbis in Montreal, he deals with him in

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<v Speaker 2>the custrous controversies he was involved in. Instantly or I

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<v Speaker 2>Robinson has a new book coming out on none other

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<v Speaker 2>the Rabbi Judol Rosenberg, the famous Golamudol Rosenberg, and who

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<v Speaker 2>was the rabbi of the show. I guess that Rabbi

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<v Speaker 2>Kelman used to be the rabbi of But so this

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<v Speaker 2>is that trans If you've never seen the translation, here

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<v Speaker 2>it is so this isn't peric gimmo halacha Zion. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me read it to you here in Hebrew and translated.

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<v Speaker 2>He says misha he mary Grin, meaning there's five people

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<v Speaker 2>are called mini. Now the translator has atheists here. Atheist

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<v Speaker 2>is not really the translation heretics. I would say, oh, Mayer,

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<v Speaker 2>one who says shane sham l l loa as we

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<v Speaker 2>said it's pronounced, it's not pronounced l o ha. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not pronounced. It's it's we spoke about this. I think

384
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<v Speaker 2>it's called the furtive patava. We have that with. There's

385
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<v Speaker 2>different ways of pronouncing it in this Fardic world. They

386
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<v Speaker 2>pronounce it generally, not a low and loah, it's l

387
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<v Speaker 2>o wah. Also, for example, you have like how do

388
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<v Speaker 2>you pronounce it's a yah reyak? Is it ya reach

389
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<v Speaker 2>or is it ya ray yach with different but everyone

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<v Speaker 2>knows you don't pronounce it l oh. It's like the

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<v Speaker 2>word noah. It goes beforehand and instantly the word sham

392
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<v Speaker 2>there Homer sham la the word sham. There's so much

393
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<v Speaker 2>written about it. What does it mean? People don't know

394
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<v Speaker 2>what to make it. It's simply an Arabic word that's

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<v Speaker 2>been brought into Hebrew. Doesn't you can't translate it. It's

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<v Speaker 2>uh so one who says there is no God van

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<v Speaker 2>oman Hig there's no ruler, I guess of the world.

398
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<v Speaker 2>That's uh, that's a heretic. The second one is there

399
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<v Speaker 2>is a ruler y sham Manhigue of Alhinschnai mojosir. There's

400
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<v Speaker 2>more than one God. Now this is the one we're

401
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<v Speaker 2>interested in. The third one o mayor sham Ribond someone

402
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.680
<v Speaker 2>who says that there is one God of al shuguf Ubaltmuna,

403
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<v Speaker 2>but he has a form, a physical form. Uh, you

404
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<v Speaker 2>believe that you're a corporeal god, You're a heretic. That's

405
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<v Speaker 2>what the Ramam says. Now look at the rivat I

406
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<v Speaker 2>mean largest for you. The Riva, the great revit right

407
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<v Speaker 2>says his follows. He quotes the Ramba, the Amabuna. One

408
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<v Speaker 2>who says that God has a physical form is a heretic.

409
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Altho Amara Abraham Amaravram the right that says, Vlama mean,

410
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>why is the ram I'm called this person a heretic

411
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:27.720
<v Speaker 2>ramat Man? There there were greater and better people than

412
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:31.279
<v Speaker 2>the Rambam who followed this opinion, that is, who believed

413
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:33.960
<v Speaker 2>God had a physical as a physical form. Why they

414
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:37.480
<v Speaker 2>believe this? The fima sharau Mikra speak based on what

415
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.000
<v Speaker 2>they saw in scripture. After all, God walks in the

416
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>garden Moses is the his back, the back of his head,

417
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:54.079
<v Speaker 2>the jossaerdos. But more what they saw in the Agadote.

418
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:57.599
<v Speaker 2>You have all sorts of anthropomorphic a godot to God

419
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:00.359
<v Speaker 2>wears the fill and things like that. He's out all

420
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:04.960
<v Speaker 2>sorts of things adeos, which confused people. So the Riva

421
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:07.640
<v Speaker 2>doesn't believe this. He says that these people are confused,

422
00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:10.960
<v Speaker 2>but they don't know any better. These are Look, the

423
00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:13.079
<v Speaker 2>Va knew that Arama was great, and he says that

424
00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:16.720
<v Speaker 2>these are very great people, and they were misled by

425
00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:19.799
<v Speaker 2>what they saw in the Torah and in Hazal to

426
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:24.279
<v Speaker 2>think God has a physical form. Incidentally, on the spot

427
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:29.640
<v Speaker 2>here the MiG DAOs, the Migdalos is one of the commentaries.

428
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 2>He says he can't accept what the Riva says that

429
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:34.960
<v Speaker 2>he says that the Gamura tells us that he tells

430
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.880
<v Speaker 2>a story where a guy sold his animal to a

431
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.279
<v Speaker 2>nan Jew and the nan Jew had to sell the

432
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:41.920
<v Speaker 2>animal back because the animal wouldn't eat let's say food

433
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:45.599
<v Speaker 2>that Turumus and Myceros weren't taken from. And the Gamura

434
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.559
<v Speaker 2>derives from this that God watches over even the animals

435
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.359
<v Speaker 2>of the righteous, and the Migdalo says, if God watches

436
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:53.480
<v Speaker 2>over the animals the righteous, all the more so he

437
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:56.079
<v Speaker 2>watches over the righteous. So you can't have how could

438
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:59.400
<v Speaker 2>there be people greater than Aramam who thought this? Refshemto,

439
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.559
<v Speaker 2>who's a medieval philosopher defender of the Rambam, says that,

440
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, the Rivat says godoling vetovi me menu greater

441
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:09.240
<v Speaker 2>and better than the Rumbam. He says, maybe they were

442
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:13.359
<v Speaker 2>godoling heavier, the Toviman, better looking than the Rambamb, but

443
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:17.440
<v Speaker 2>certainly there there weren't any great scholars. But the Rivot's

444
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:21.200
<v Speaker 2>comment raises a few interesting issues, which for the purposes

445
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:23.119
<v Speaker 2>of these classes we're not going to get into. I'll

446
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:25.240
<v Speaker 2>just raise them. First of all, who are these gadolin

447
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:29.799
<v Speaker 2>vetovi me menu uh? The Rivat had respect for the Rambam,

448
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:31.960
<v Speaker 2>and he's saying people greater than Ramma thought God had

449
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:38.960
<v Speaker 2>a body. The Ramam himself mentions that that he met

450
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:43.039
<v Speaker 2>sages who were not sure of whether God has a body.

451
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:45.920
<v Speaker 2>People tell me that, And then he met some who

452
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>it's not that they weren't sure, they were certainly had

453
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:51.799
<v Speaker 2>a body, and anyone who thought differently, they said he's

454
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:54.880
<v Speaker 2>the heretic. And there's many sources you can bring on

455
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.160
<v Speaker 2>this that perhaps even some of the greats of uh France,

456
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.119
<v Speaker 2>of North in France, but we have many reports. That

457
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:05.559
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean a body necessarily like ours. It could be

458
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:09.960
<v Speaker 2>like is the most pure body you can imagine, but

459
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:15.119
<v Speaker 2>a form nonetheless of some sort. And there's nothing explicitly

460
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:18.119
<v Speaker 2>anywhere in the Tower that says there's no physical form,

461
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:22.720
<v Speaker 2>or for that matter, in the Tumud explicitly, And if

462
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:24.559
<v Speaker 2>you want to read certain passages, you can read them

463
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:27.279
<v Speaker 2>that way. So this is an old dispute. I don't

464
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.039
<v Speaker 2>need to get into the historical dispute. What I'm interested

465
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.119
<v Speaker 2>in is that the Rumam says these people were heretics.

466
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.359
<v Speaker 2>The Riva says they're not heretics. They don't know any

467
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>better now. The Rifa, presumably the Riva didn't even regard

468
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.279
<v Speaker 2>us as heresy, but many later people after the rom

469
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Bomb use the Rivus model. They assume that the Ruma's right,

470
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.759
<v Speaker 2>it's heresy to believe God as a physical form, but

471
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:54.440
<v Speaker 2>they adopt the Rombombs the Rivas perspective that if you

472
00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:58.039
<v Speaker 2>don't know any better what we can call Kathira Bashowgig

473
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.200
<v Speaker 2>unwitting heresy. So this then becomes even though as I said,

474
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:05.279
<v Speaker 2>I don't think to rive On himself regarded this as heresy,

475
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:07.240
<v Speaker 2>he just regarded as wrong. A lot of things can

476
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:09.839
<v Speaker 2>be wrong and not be heretical. At least there's no

477
00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:12.880
<v Speaker 2>evidence they regarded as heresy. Many others later did regard

478
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:15.759
<v Speaker 2>as heresy. And this then creates a big dispute there

479
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:18.319
<v Speaker 2>of a showgig. If you're an unwitting heretic, you have

480
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:21.720
<v Speaker 2>the rombamb who clearly says doesn't matter heretics a heretic

481
00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:28.799
<v Speaker 2>as Recrimesalvechich famously said Neber Chorus. If you're a heretic

482
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:30.839
<v Speaker 2>because of Neber you don't know any better. You're still

483
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.720
<v Speaker 2>a heretic. And this position is held by the Barber

484
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.359
<v Speaker 2>now a whole group of authorities down to modern times.

485
00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:38.799
<v Speaker 2>On the other hand, the other side, you also have

486
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:42.799
<v Speaker 2>great figures. You have touch baits yucf Albow and down

487
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:46.279
<v Speaker 2>to our day of cook even of I believe Rm.

488
00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:49.799
<v Speaker 2>Mosha Stern beholds this position because during the Sliffkin controversy

489
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:54.160
<v Speaker 2>he said that Sliffkin's books are heresy. So someone I

490
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.920
<v Speaker 2>know who's initial said to him, well, without Sliffkin, is

491
00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.440
<v Speaker 2>he an api chorus? And Rav Sernbach said, no, he's

492
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:01.680
<v Speaker 2>not an opp chorus, but the books are heresy. Well,

493
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:04.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't you know what's going on here? If isn't

494
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:06.559
<v Speaker 2>the definition of a heretic one who believes in heresy.

495
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.319
<v Speaker 2>But my friend explained it to me that he assumes

496
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:12.640
<v Speaker 2>there are stern baholds like the Riva, that if you

497
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:16.039
<v Speaker 2>don't know any better, your view is heresy, But you

498
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>yourself are not a heretic. Why incidentally, does Rev the

499
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:25.519
<v Speaker 2>Rambam have this position? He responds seemingly to the Riva

500
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.160
<v Speaker 2>in the morn of Vuchi. He explains, you know, he

501
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:31.519
<v Speaker 2>responds to opinion that looks like the Rivet's opinion. Sir

502
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:34.119
<v Speaker 2>if Kaf says he must have had the Ribet's criticism

503
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:38.960
<v Speaker 2>the Rmbam for the Rambamb, immortality is natural. It's not

504
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 2>a reward. The merea first told us have told that is,

505
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:45.599
<v Speaker 2>if you live the way you're supposed to and and

506
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.880
<v Speaker 2>larger intellect the way you should, then when you die,

507
00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:53.240
<v Speaker 2>your soul lives on. That's what immortality is it's not

508
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.200
<v Speaker 2>a reward per se given to you by God, so

509
00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:59.039
<v Speaker 2>that God therefore, well, he'll be nice and give you

510
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:01.359
<v Speaker 2>a reward because you don't know any better. It doesn't

511
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:04.359
<v Speaker 2>work that way for the rohmbamb. It's a natural process.

512
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Rabbi Boi, in the introduction to his book With Perfect Faith,

513
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:12.880
<v Speaker 2>tries to make this idea palatable of the roumbomb and

514
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.480
<v Speaker 2>he compares it that I think the way he says

515
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:18.160
<v Speaker 2>is it's like if you never took algebra, you won't

516
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.559
<v Speaker 2>understand calculus. I think those are the words he uses. Therefore,

517
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.559
<v Speaker 2>it's not that if we say you can't take calculus,

518
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.960
<v Speaker 2>it's not we're punishing you. It's just that, uh, it's uh,

519
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:35.079
<v Speaker 2>you haven't entered that realm. Raviosef Albo, the author of

520
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:37.839
<v Speaker 2>the famous work Say for a Kurm, is the primary

521
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:41.359
<v Speaker 2>defender of the view that a cooepher a show gig

522
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:46.880
<v Speaker 2>an unwitting heretic does not make you a heretic. That is,

523
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:48.920
<v Speaker 2>you're not regarded as a heretic if you believe in

524
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.200
<v Speaker 2>heresy unwittingly. A corner of Yosef Albo, and this is

525
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:54.000
<v Speaker 2>right at the beginning of his book, say, for a kurring,

526
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:57.359
<v Speaker 2>if you believe that God has a body or anything

527
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:02.079
<v Speaker 2>heretical based on how you misint the Torah or Rabinic texts,

528
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.680
<v Speaker 2>you are blameless and uh, and that's that's the dispute

529
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:09.279
<v Speaker 2>we're speaking about. A recent author, Menachem Kellner, in one

530
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:11.400
<v Speaker 2>of his books, asks well, how far would your sof

531
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.079
<v Speaker 2>albill take this. Let's say he met someone like Mordechai

532
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Kaplan and how far are you going to take this

533
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:18.720
<v Speaker 2>idea of a fear of a show gig? But really

534
00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:23.000
<v Speaker 2>that's a misunderstanding. Revocef Albo is clear. He's talking about

535
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:26.279
<v Speaker 2>people who believe that their view is the Tora's view,

536
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.240
<v Speaker 2>but it's actually heretical view. Like they say that the

537
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Torah teaches that God has a physical form they but

538
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.599
<v Speaker 2>they believe that's the Tora's view. He's not referring to

539
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:38.720
<v Speaker 2>people who will say that Toras says this. I understand

540
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:41.119
<v Speaker 2>that Tarras says this, but I reject the Torah and

541
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:43.759
<v Speaker 2>I have a different view that Those are not what

542
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.759
<v Speaker 2>I was speaking about. He's speaking about people who believe

543
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:50.920
<v Speaker 2>that their heretical view. They don't think it's heretical. We

544
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.880
<v Speaker 2>think it's heretical is what the Torah teaches for them.

545
00:32:54.039 --> 00:32:56.599
<v Speaker 2>He regards this as a show gig, and they're not

546
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:00.599
<v Speaker 2>regarded as heretics. How far you take this? This an

547
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.079
<v Speaker 2>interesting question when it comes to Reves alb. What about

548
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:08.119
<v Speaker 2>a Jew for Jesus, someone who actually believes that Jesus

549
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:11.359
<v Speaker 2>is God. I've tried to work it out that he

550
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:14.319
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't go that far, because if you actually believe, let's

551
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:18.640
<v Speaker 2>say that a person is God, then you're real a

552
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:21.559
<v Speaker 2>voda zara. You don't even have a religion anymore. So

553
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:23.440
<v Speaker 2>it's not like you could say, fear of a show gig,

554
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:26.720
<v Speaker 2>you don't have a religion. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe

555
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:30.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's a very liberal position in our era

556
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:33.480
<v Speaker 2>of disputes in the Orthodox world, where lots of people

557
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:35.400
<v Speaker 2>like to call the other heretics. If we would adopt

558
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:37.720
<v Speaker 2>this position, which I say is a touch Bates, it's

559
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 2>the ebb, it's the rud buzz down to ruff Cooks, commersions,

560
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:42.839
<v Speaker 2>and many others, then we wouldn't have any of these

561
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:45.119
<v Speaker 2>disputes because everyone could say you look at open Orthodox

562
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:47.680
<v Speaker 2>and you could say, well, I think that you have

563
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a heretical idea but I know you think this is

564
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:52.920
<v Speaker 2>in ligne with Toras, so you're not heretic. It would

565
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:54.319
<v Speaker 2>be It would make a lot of sense and help

566
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:59.119
<v Speaker 2>us deal with RaBaD because everyone can acknowledge that, even

567
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.720
<v Speaker 2>the extreme messing, I believe that this is what the

568
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Tara teaches. So you could even if you want to

569
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:07.680
<v Speaker 2>think it's heresy. I don't think it's heresy, because what's

570
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:11.199
<v Speaker 2>heretical about thinking the your Rebby's machiac. You could be

571
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:15.039
<v Speaker 2>wrong unless you think Borinu, you think he's a creator

572
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:20.000
<v Speaker 2>or something. But so it's an interesting position. Now the

573
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:24.119
<v Speaker 2>question is how does this all relate to Simon one

574
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:27.639
<v Speaker 2>thirty two in the book, page two eighty three. Because

575
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:31.119
<v Speaker 2>I found something in the Lebavate Rebbe that I found astounding,

576
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:33.760
<v Speaker 2>and I wrote to a Chian rapport. Lebavach Rebby says

577
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 2>as follows in a letter to I don't know who

578
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:41.360
<v Speaker 2>this Rabbi Zimmer is, but I wrote to Rerian report

579
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:44.679
<v Speaker 2>of course, the great Rabbad scholar. The Rebbe says this

580
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:52.320
<v Speaker 2>follows that there's a difference between sharp language curses and

581
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:55.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, harsh stuff you say when it comes to ideas,

582
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.159
<v Speaker 2>when you speak about let's say a party there, I'd

583
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:05.000
<v Speaker 2>say misraki or anything like that. And when you're dealing

584
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:09.599
<v Speaker 2>with an individual that is sharp language, like like you

585
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:13.079
<v Speaker 2>said times like the riskers, you could say that Misrahi

586
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:17.400
<v Speaker 2>is heretical the idea, but the individuals you don't treat

587
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:20.440
<v Speaker 2>him that way. Okay, so far enough makes sense, But

588
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:23.119
<v Speaker 2>then the proof Then what the rebbey says as follows

589
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Dug Maladovar. I'll give you an example, he says. The

590
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:29.679
<v Speaker 2>Rambamb poskins like we just saw Omer Shahu Goofu bats

591
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Munah raise him in the ram Mom says, if you

592
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:34.360
<v Speaker 2>think that God is a physical form, you're a heretic.

593
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:39.920
<v Speaker 2>And then the rebby says, costoom, it's obvious that the

594
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.960
<v Speaker 2>that the ram Bomb will not say God forbid this

595
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:47.000
<v Speaker 2>about pony or pony should be him off. He wouldn't

596
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:50.079
<v Speaker 2>say this about an individual. So the rebby says that

597
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:52.239
<v Speaker 2>they're according to the rom Bamb, if you believe that

598
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:54.320
<v Speaker 2>God is a physical form, you're a heretic. But the

599
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.199
<v Speaker 2>rebbe says, but if there was an individual in the

600
00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.519
<v Speaker 2>ram BAM's day who actually believed and said God has

601
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:03.400
<v Speaker 2>a physical form, the Rambam wouldn't call him a heretic.

602
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:05.480
<v Speaker 2>So I wrote the rector, what do you mean the

603
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:07.280
<v Speaker 2>ramon call it tick. That's the whole point in the

604
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:09.880
<v Speaker 2>rom bomb. The Rombam says, how O mayre notice do

605
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Romo doesn't say you think it a whole shave do?

606
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Ramom uses the language oh maher. So the question is

607
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:19.280
<v Speaker 2>is this love dafka or reflim Hersman wants to argue

608
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that we don't treat people like heretics unless they publicly

609
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:27.119
<v Speaker 2>voice it. That is a private heretic. If someone tells you,

610
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.400
<v Speaker 2>for instance, privately his view, he doesn't publicize it, he

611
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:32.320
<v Speaker 2>could still be a member of our community in good

612
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.039
<v Speaker 2>standing as well as he doesn't make trouble what God

613
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:37.679
<v Speaker 2>does with him. And that's something else. But he wants

614
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:41.480
<v Speaker 2>to say that the Rambam's language oh mare is actually precise.

615
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:45.639
<v Speaker 2>But certainly if you get up and publicly say I'm teaching,

616
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:47.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna open to Yeshiva tomorrow and I'm going to

617
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:50.480
<v Speaker 2>teach that God has a physical form and everyone who comes,

618
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to teach you that. Uh, how could the

619
00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:56.000
<v Speaker 2>rambab not say about me that I'm a min not

620
00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:58.480
<v Speaker 2>be chorus? And yet the Rebby says he wouldn't say

621
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:01.719
<v Speaker 2>that because it's only speaking idea is not about individuals,

622
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:05.159
<v Speaker 2>and this of course fits in with the whole jabbah

623
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.639
<v Speaker 2>I guess philosophy. But I wrote to Rubbi Rappaport, what's

624
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:11.400
<v Speaker 2>going on here and run the report himself says this

625
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:14.639
<v Speaker 2>seems very strange at first, because the ram bomb is

626
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.920
<v Speaker 2>very Brewery, very clear that you're a heretic. And that's

627
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the whole point of the critic of the Rievud's response.

628
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:26.440
<v Speaker 2>How could the Rambam call these great rabbis heretics? The

629
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.559
<v Speaker 2>answer is they weren't heretics because they didn't know any better.

630
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:29.920
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

631
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:33.639
<v Speaker 2>And Rapport says, it's maha, you know, it's it's strange

632
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:36.639
<v Speaker 2>how he says, how could you say that the rambamb

633
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.760
<v Speaker 2>loki him out small much possible? How could the Rambamb

634
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:42.760
<v Speaker 2>not have held this when he's telling us that all

635
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.960
<v Speaker 2>these people think that we have to regard them as heretics.

636
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:53.320
<v Speaker 2>And Rubby Rapport explains his follows. He says that the

637
00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:56.760
<v Speaker 2>explanation of the matter is first, he says, let's understand

638
00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:00.360
<v Speaker 2>something that in the Rombam's day, there were many people

639
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.159
<v Speaker 2>who thought God had a physical form, and he cites

640
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:08.320
<v Speaker 2>in the note first of all the passage I gave

641
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:11.519
<v Speaker 2>from the letter of the rambamb On treesa massin and

642
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:15.079
<v Speaker 2>other places. We have the letter of the Ramban the letter.

643
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:19.360
<v Speaker 2>The Rumban writes to them that I've heard. So we

644
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know. Maybe the Rumban was misinformed, but he says,

645
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.800
<v Speaker 2>I've heard that. One of the things you're upset about

646
00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:26.280
<v Speaker 2>what the Rumbam is is that because he says that

647
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:28.559
<v Speaker 2>God has no physical form, and the Rumban says, what

648
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:32.800
<v Speaker 2>are you talking about? We all believe that, but he

649
00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:35.079
<v Speaker 2>was of the opinion that that's what the scholars of

650
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:40.679
<v Speaker 2>Northern France thought. Thebi ropport also cites something else, which

651
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:43.840
<v Speaker 2>it's good you're sitting down. I am the one, I

652
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:47.519
<v Speaker 2>believe who discovered this passage. When I say discovered, obviously

653
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:49.320
<v Speaker 2>the person who published it and knew it, but I'm

654
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:51.519
<v Speaker 2>the first one who wrote about it. Unfortunately, I didn't

655
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:54.559
<v Speaker 2>know about it when I had my book. When I

656
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:56.639
<v Speaker 2>wrote my book on the Thirteen Principles, where I would

657
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:00.760
<v Speaker 2>included it. I did mention it in subsequent posts, and

658
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:03.400
<v Speaker 2>I've translated the entire passage there's going to be a

659
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:07.320
<v Speaker 2>jubilee volume coming out for by moshous Shama of Flatbush.

660
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:09.480
<v Speaker 2>So I have a whole translation and discussion of it.

661
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:14.599
<v Speaker 2>But the Rias of the it's Isaiah Troni the Elder,

662
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:20.480
<v Speaker 2>in his commentary ins and Hedron says that Hayyu Michaud

663
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Hashim Shamehem Treluh, that there were sages of the Talmud

664
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 2>knew how many krals keeps shoot Tom and what they

665
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.559
<v Speaker 2>thought here Krsmuna. The Riaz says that there were even

666
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.559
<v Speaker 2>sages in the Talmud who thought this. I know this

667
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:43.840
<v Speaker 2>sounds heretical and uh, but that's what the Riaz says.

668
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:45.920
<v Speaker 2>And this explains a problem because how can you have

669
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:49.920
<v Speaker 2>medieval Ashkenasa stagents who thought this what they just made

670
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:52.440
<v Speaker 2>it up? How would they make it up? The answer

671
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:54.760
<v Speaker 2>is that they had it on a tradition. They must

672
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:57.280
<v Speaker 2>have had this. I believe there are two traditions and

673
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:01.159
<v Speaker 2>then there were and the Riaz says it explicit that

674
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.280
<v Speaker 2>there were those who thought that. So uh, this was

675
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:08.960
<v Speaker 2>a view which the ram bomb was able to uproot.

676
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:11.480
<v Speaker 2>A mistake in view. But people give the rahmbamb all

677
00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:14.800
<v Speaker 2>the credit. That's a mistake. It's not just the Rombumadoo

678
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and others. So the Rabbi Raport begins that you have

679
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:22.159
<v Speaker 2>to understand this was a common view and the rambamb

680
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.159
<v Speaker 2>of course he uproots it. He puts in his thirteen principles. Uh,

681
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.159
<v Speaker 2>it's in other places. But then he then, uh, what

682
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:32.199
<v Speaker 2>to do with the Labava Trebbu. Well before we didn't

683
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:36.159
<v Speaker 2>get to that. Rebby Rappaport quotes for Bahon Wasserman. Bahona

684
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Wasserman deals with this passage and he has a problem

685
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:44.280
<v Speaker 2>also with this passage because the the the Ramam has

686
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.840
<v Speaker 2>another place where he deals with car rights, and he

687
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:48.719
<v Speaker 2>says that when you have to when you deal with

688
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:52.320
<v Speaker 2>kara rights. Who are heretics? They don't accept the oral

689
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.519
<v Speaker 2>law because that they they misinterpret the Torah because you

690
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:59.360
<v Speaker 2>can't interpret it her without the oral tradition. I like

691
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.519
<v Speaker 2>to say, maybe the shock people, but it's true that

692
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Judaism is not based on the Torah. It's based on

693
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the Torah and the oral to tora. That is, we're

694
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:13.880
<v Speaker 2>not Chi rights and we're not Christians. Judaism is not

695
00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:17.559
<v Speaker 2>based just on the Tora. You cannot understand the Tora

696
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:22.119
<v Speaker 2>without the what Jacob News used to call the dual

697
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:28.519
<v Speaker 2>Tora to toras and anyone who just reads the Tora

698
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:33.280
<v Speaker 2>without bale will be violating a left and right as

699
00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:35.880
<v Speaker 2>well as all sorts of other problems. Uh so, but

700
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:38.719
<v Speaker 2>Revona Wassaman has a problem because he says the Rumbam

701
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:41.000
<v Speaker 2>here says, you're a heretic if you believe God is

702
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:43.039
<v Speaker 2>a physical form. It doesn't matter why. And he quotes

703
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:45.239
<v Speaker 2>or climbsl of Achek. He's one of those who quotes

704
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:47.800
<v Speaker 2>them that heretic ef you don't know any better. But

705
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:49.559
<v Speaker 2>then what about the car rights? The real mom says,

706
00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:52.400
<v Speaker 2>with ca rights even though they're heretics, we have to

707
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.800
<v Speaker 2>bring them close with bonds of love because they don't

708
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.159
<v Speaker 2>know any better. They've been raised this way and we

709
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:03.400
<v Speaker 2>have to try to bring them close to traditional Judaism.

710
00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:06.199
<v Speaker 2>And he's the Rambam ends it by saying, don't kill

711
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.599
<v Speaker 2>them too fast, because you know, if we had based

712
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:12.639
<v Speaker 2>and you kill the heretics, he says, the chatsloy Maha Damahargan,

713
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 2>you know you take give him a chance. Well, what's

714
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.679
<v Speaker 2>going on here? How could how could the Rambam say

715
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:21.719
<v Speaker 2>if you think God is a body you're a heretic

716
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:23.960
<v Speaker 2>even if you don't know any better. But here the carrots,

717
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.239
<v Speaker 2>they don't know any better. Uh, we try to bring

718
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:29.400
<v Speaker 2>them close. And uh what Rebbi rapport explains and I

719
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:31.280
<v Speaker 2>think this is there's no doubt this is the answer

720
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:33.199
<v Speaker 2>is and Revevel cell of Atri says the same thing

721
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.880
<v Speaker 2>to brisker Rov is that it's not a contradiction at all.

722
00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:40.079
<v Speaker 2>In when the Realm deals with the karats and nos Mamrim,

723
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.559
<v Speaker 2>he's talking about how we relate to them, that since

724
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:44.519
<v Speaker 2>they don't know any better, we try to bring them close.

725
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.440
<v Speaker 2>It's not talking about kape shamaya as far as God

726
00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:50.480
<v Speaker 2>is concerned. If they don't, if they don't know any better,

727
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.760
<v Speaker 2>if their heretics, they're heretics. Uh So when Hillos Chuvo,

728
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.119
<v Speaker 2>when the Romm says, if you think God is a

729
00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:58.199
<v Speaker 2>physical form, you're a heretic. That's uh vis a the

730
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.239
<v Speaker 2>God that you're you believe a false idea. Yeah, it's

731
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:04.159
<v Speaker 2>not your fault. But that's where prime salve I just said,

732
00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:08.480
<v Speaker 2>chorus is still not be chorus. But uh, we're we're

733
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:11.239
<v Speaker 2>gonna if we meet someone who doesn't thinks God has

734
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:13.719
<v Speaker 2>a body, because he's raised that way, we'll try to

735
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:14.760
<v Speaker 2>change his mind.

736
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:15.119
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

737
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:18.480
<v Speaker 2>We won't treat him like a heretic until he uh

738
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:21.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, is uh fervent in his belief. It doesn't change.

739
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Rebbi Rahnan has a different opinion. Actually, ram Hahnan develops

740
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:31.760
<v Speaker 2>the idea that when it comes to false ideas about God,

741
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:36.639
<v Speaker 2>it's because people are not really show gig they they were,

742
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:39.760
<v Speaker 2>they weren't really good astray they because they want to sin.

743
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:43.400
<v Speaker 2>They convince themselves that of all these heretical things, which

744
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:45.360
<v Speaker 2>is a very We've spoke about this idea in the

745
00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:47.800
<v Speaker 2>classes of our Mahanna and you go back to the tapes. Uh,

746
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.679
<v Speaker 2>it's a very hard position. It doesn't take into account

747
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:54.599
<v Speaker 2>a real moral atheist. And furthermore, what about all the

748
00:43:54.679 --> 00:43:56.760
<v Speaker 2>other e karim which have nothing to do with uh,

749
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:02.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, God, Why would someone deny them? It's and

750
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:11.199
<v Speaker 2>Reba Rapperport says the same thing. So then what about

751
00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:15.280
<v Speaker 2>how to explain the lebavach Rebey's position? Uh, he says,

752
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:18.760
<v Speaker 2>hold on, so let me move on, let me skip

753
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:23.760
<v Speaker 2>a few things. So he believes that what the Rebu's

754
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:29.599
<v Speaker 2>saying is that, uh, when the Rambam says, when he

755
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:32.360
<v Speaker 2>says that the Rambam would not call an individual heretic.

756
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:34.840
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what he's talking about. If the Rambamb met

757
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:39.480
<v Speaker 2>the rabbis of Northern France, that's what the Robber Appaport says. Mt.

758
00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Sarfatminu Bakshama, who believed in God's corporeality. I don't know

759
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:46.360
<v Speaker 2>if this is true that the rabbies of Northern France

760
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:50.719
<v Speaker 2>were corporealists. All we have is really the Ramban reporting

761
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:53.679
<v Speaker 2>what was said, and other people attack them. We don't

762
00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:57.320
<v Speaker 2>have anything with one exception from the rabbis of Northern France.

763
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.920
<v Speaker 2>We have this very strange text called Kataftami by Moosha Taku,

764
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:04.880
<v Speaker 2>which he's a corporealist. He assumes that God can assume

765
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.960
<v Speaker 2>a physical form if he wishes. But we the idea

766
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 2>that the other stages of Northern France. I don't think

767
00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:14.280
<v Speaker 2>we have evidence that they believe that the mass is yes,

768
00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:17.360
<v Speaker 2>but the rabbis, I don't know. But whenever, that's what

769
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.679
<v Speaker 2>Rubber Rapport says. That this is what Tobabach Rebbi is saying.

770
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Just like with the car Wrtes who don't know any better,

771
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:27.440
<v Speaker 2>we treat them well we're not talking about their faiths.

772
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, uh vis a vis heaven, so too the Rambama.

773
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:32.719
<v Speaker 2>And he meets one of these corporealists, he's not going

774
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:34.199
<v Speaker 2>to go up to them and say you're a heretic.

775
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.199
<v Speaker 2>He's not called them heretic. He's going to try to

776
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:38.400
<v Speaker 2>bring him close. He's going to try to educate him. Yes,

777
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:41.360
<v Speaker 2>they are a heretic. But uh and this is just

778
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:43.880
<v Speaker 2>like in a Habat shu. But like any show, how

779
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.199
<v Speaker 2>many people come in. They're complete heretics. They don't believe

780
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:47.840
<v Speaker 2>in anything. They can even go to haba sho. Guy

781
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.440
<v Speaker 2>can eat on young Gepper. I was in a kbad

782
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:52.639
<v Speaker 2>schoo onants and these guys. He tells me he's an atheist,

783
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:54.760
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't believe in God, but he likes coming here

784
00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:56.400
<v Speaker 2>because the rabbi is so nice, and he gives the

785
00:45:56.480 --> 00:45:59.719
<v Speaker 2>rabbi a lot of money. So, uh, well, we're gonna

786
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.840
<v Speaker 2>stand up in front of everyone say this guy's a heretary.

787
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Of course not, but he is so uh you know

788
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:07.280
<v Speaker 2>that that's so so that's what he's saying. The rebbe

789
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:13.760
<v Speaker 2>uh intended that, but it's not referring to their actual fate.

790
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.199
<v Speaker 2>I guess you could say of their soul or anything

791
00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:18.840
<v Speaker 2>like this. It's just that Lojaya Mahari from a vazzo.

792
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:23.159
<v Speaker 2>Some he wouldn't he wouldn't call them publicly. He would heretics. Yeah,

793
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:25.239
<v Speaker 2>they are heretics, but he's not going to go attack

794
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:28.119
<v Speaker 2>them because they don't know any better. That's that's what

795
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.400
<v Speaker 2>And he goes in his last paragraph, he says, we

796
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:36.039
<v Speaker 2>haven't actually not the last paragraph, one of the one

797
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:39.360
<v Speaker 2>of the last paragraphs. He says that this approach, we

798
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:42.000
<v Speaker 2>see it elsewhere, and he mentions the Sprebi and this

799
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:43.639
<v Speaker 2>is what I said as well. He says, if you

800
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:47.719
<v Speaker 2>read the Sapa Rebbi's writings, he attacks everyone for who

801
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:50.519
<v Speaker 2>accepts the state of Israel like a co fair. But

802
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:53.280
<v Speaker 2>yet we know that he was friendly with people like

803
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:56.559
<v Speaker 2>the bells Rebbe or of ourn color. Sir Rapport says

804
00:46:56.639 --> 00:47:01.280
<v Speaker 2>that so too. He he had to distinguish between the

805
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:03.639
<v Speaker 2>belief and the person. I think there's a big difference

806
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:05.960
<v Speaker 2>here though, because my point when I say about the

807
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.679
<v Speaker 2>Sata Rebi is sat Rebbi used this language, but he

808
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:11.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't think Varron Cutler is a heretic. He said that

809
00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:15.880
<v Speaker 2>if you accept the state it's Feira, but he uh,

810
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:17.880
<v Speaker 2>and he did think it's Kir, but he didn't think

811
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:21.519
<v Speaker 2>it's Revron Cutler is a heretic, but the Rambamb is different.

812
00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:24.559
<v Speaker 2>I think what Lbava Rebbey's point is, the Rambamb would

813
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:27.280
<v Speaker 2>think that these people are heretics for believing God in

814
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:29.519
<v Speaker 2>a physical form. How could you not, the Rambam says explicitly,

815
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.079
<v Speaker 2>but you treat them nicely because you're trying to educate them.

816
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:37.960
<v Speaker 2>That's a difference. And then he right before he ends

817
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:46.360
<v Speaker 2>his letter to me, he says that, okay, now I

818
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:52.840
<v Speaker 2>don't need to He just ends that the the the

819
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Lebava Rebby held equal. He cites a letter from the

820
00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:58.480
<v Speaker 2>Lava Rebby where we see, even leaving this aside, that

821
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:01.679
<v Speaker 2>the rebbe held like the Rivat, that they're really believed

822
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:05.239
<v Speaker 2>in the idea that a kop for bishogei, one who's

823
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:08.880
<v Speaker 2>unwitting heretic is not even visa vi heaven is not

824
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:12.920
<v Speaker 2>regarded as a heretic. And Rapport says that's also Sitkuboli

825
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:17.760
<v Speaker 2>that in Kabbalah they also teach this. So it's an

826
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:23.400
<v Speaker 2>important idea that we an important dispute which we could

827
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:26.760
<v Speaker 2>spend a couple hours on going through the various sources,

828
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:29.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's it's valuable to remember. And I think the

829
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:32.519
<v Speaker 2>upshot is that if you follow this position which they

830
00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:35.480
<v Speaker 2>attribute to the Riva. Not sure, because I don't know

831
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:37.639
<v Speaker 2>if the rive I really do things are doing with heresy,

832
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:40.679
<v Speaker 2>but it's certainly jose Balbo and Natash Bates and others.

833
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:45.119
<v Speaker 2>It opens up all sorts of liberalizing possibilities that you

834
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.119
<v Speaker 2>can completely reject people and think their views are even

835
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:52.920
<v Speaker 2>literal heresy, but since they think it's in line with

836
00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Tower teaching, they are not to be regarded as heretics.

837
00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:59.599
<v Speaker 2>Obviously you can't. You don't want to teach people these views,

838
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:02.280
<v Speaker 2>but you can relate to them with dignity as toward

839
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Jus and good standing count of an dominion. You don't

840
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:06.920
<v Speaker 2>have to worry about their wine. All the things that

841
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:09.800
<v Speaker 2>you hear people when they want to view someone as

842
00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:14.559
<v Speaker 2>rahabad or left being Orthodox, all these things. They use

843
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:18.000
<v Speaker 2>all those examples. But all you do is look at

844
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:24.559
<v Speaker 2>uh of Yosef Albo, and you see uh. You see otherwise.

845
00:49:24.760 --> 00:49:29.960
<v Speaker 2>In fact, for Yosef Albo they give Actually I'll get

846
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.000
<v Speaker 2>to it because the next responds and also deals with

847
00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:37.159
<v Speaker 2>the same issue and the I don't know if we

848
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:39.480
<v Speaker 2>will a least be able to start it today because

849
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:41.960
<v Speaker 2>we have a few more minutes. So now we we

850
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:44.079
<v Speaker 2>finished with one thirty two. I actually think this is

851
00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a very important letter in setting forth the ideas of lsdeos.

852
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:53.159
<v Speaker 2>I guess you can call it. And we have a

853
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:57.079
<v Speaker 2>very similar letter related letter, I should say, the next

854
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:01.840
<v Speaker 2>one from Rabbi Mazu's. We're gonna I see now twelve

855
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:06.679
<v Speaker 2>straight letters from me and Rabbi Mazou's. When I get

856
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:09.880
<v Speaker 2>to a later letter, I'll tell you more about Rabbi Mazous,

857
00:50:10.519 --> 00:50:12.960
<v Speaker 2>how I connected to him, why I think he's important.

858
00:50:13.480 --> 00:50:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Why despite the fact I do not hold of doesn't

859
00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:23.719
<v Speaker 2>mean I share in all his views and philosophical views. No,

860
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:31.000
<v Speaker 2>it's not that at all. Here we are I never

861
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:33.880
<v Speaker 2>buy one hundred percent into what anyone's going to say.

862
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:41.639
<v Speaker 2>And uh, he doesn't feel you need to. But they're uh,

863
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.079
<v Speaker 2>they're of course. I have my own views and all

864
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.079
<v Speaker 2>things I think differently of. But Alex I think, as

865
00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:51.880
<v Speaker 2>I've said before already, he's one of the most special

866
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:54.119
<v Speaker 2>rabbis in terms of his wide ranging knowledge.

867
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:54.440
<v Speaker 1>I just.

868
00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Over shabiss I was reading this book. This is a

869
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:06.000
<v Speaker 2>new book called terras Scholmo. It's about Rashelmo Goren and

870
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:08.559
<v Speaker 2>it's talking about how unusual all the things of Goren knows.

871
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:10.440
<v Speaker 2>And then he says, there's two other rabbis in our

872
00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:13.280
<v Speaker 2>day who can be compared to rov Goren in that respect,

873
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:16.239
<v Speaker 2>and that is that he says, Rabbe ma A zus

874
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Rashomo Fisher from itery, each one of them are different.

875
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:22.320
<v Speaker 2>Rov Goren did have great knowledge, but he didn't have

876
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:25.159
<v Speaker 2>the sort of wide ranging knowledge we're speaking about. It

877
00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:28.440
<v Speaker 2>is a great book, by the way, and Rafshomo Fisher

878
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:34.440
<v Speaker 2>he has enormous knowledge, philosophical knowledge. I showed you his

879
00:51:34.519 --> 00:51:37.760
<v Speaker 2>book on his edition of Haste Crescos and others. But

880
00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:42.119
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't have, as far as I know, the wide

881
00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:44.960
<v Speaker 2>ranging partial note and other things. But so we're gonna

882
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:50.400
<v Speaker 2>see many letters. And the first letter it's the question

883
00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:55.119
<v Speaker 2>is the title of it is if someone holds a

884
00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:59.039
<v Speaker 2>principle of faith in accordance with a view that's rejected,

885
00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:02.079
<v Speaker 2>is that it is to be regarded as a heretic.

886
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:04.599
<v Speaker 2>This goes back to nineteen ninety two. So before we

887
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:08.280
<v Speaker 2>even get to the letter, let me give you a

888
00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:11.079
<v Speaker 2>bit of a summary. I'm in a background of this.

889
00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Whatever we deal with theology, we start with the Rumbum.

890
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:19.400
<v Speaker 2>He's the greatest. There's no question about it. When I

891
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:23.000
<v Speaker 2>say he's the greatest, he's the greatest alargist. Also, it

892
00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:25.440
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean the others are not great, and I don't

893
00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:28.079
<v Speaker 2>think it's an insult, but in terms of his influence,

894
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:31.239
<v Speaker 2>and that's going to be important because I think one

895
00:52:31.239 --> 00:52:33.480
<v Speaker 2>of the things I'm going to say is that you

896
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:38.159
<v Speaker 2>can never throw out the rumbum in my opinion, and

897
00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:40.199
<v Speaker 2>not just my opinion, the idea that you can ever

898
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:44.320
<v Speaker 2>say that the ram BAM's view is invalid because the

899
00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:46.800
<v Speaker 2>other rabbis disagree. That to me is going to be

900
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:50.440
<v Speaker 2>out of the out of bounds, which we wouldn't necessarily

901
00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:53.960
<v Speaker 2>say about others. But what was did a robbam have

902
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:59.840
<v Speaker 2>a conception of that theological matters can be decided? That is,

903
00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:03.559
<v Speaker 2>you can have a debate on theological matters and if

904
00:53:03.639 --> 00:53:08.159
<v Speaker 2>the majority decide one way that the rom Bomb's position

905
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:11.239
<v Speaker 2>and is uh is void or anything like that. In

906
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:15.639
<v Speaker 2>other words, do you passin ala on theological matters like

907
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:20.639
<v Speaker 2>you do on allockic matters, that's the question. And I

908
00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:22.800
<v Speaker 2>have a whole article on this I can send anyone.

909
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:25.639
<v Speaker 2>But my claim is that the ram Bomb did not

910
00:53:25.719 --> 00:53:29.039
<v Speaker 2>have this conception, not with regard to dogma. Certainly not

911
00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:31.360
<v Speaker 2>with regard to dogma, as we'll see, but not with

912
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:33.559
<v Speaker 2>regard to other matters Jewish thought either. Let me first

913
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:36.800
<v Speaker 2>speak about dogma, because that's what Remazus is going to

914
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:39.079
<v Speaker 2>deal with and which I actually do not accept what

915
00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:42.719
<v Speaker 2>he says. For reasons. I'll explain, can dog must be

916
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:47.039
<v Speaker 2>decided in a logic fashion? And it's often claiming that yes,

917
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:51.519
<v Speaker 2>they can, according to the rambamb and this is very obvious.

918
00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:55.360
<v Speaker 2>It's it's so clear. Uh, And no one actually disagrees

919
00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:57.840
<v Speaker 2>that Rama holds us I think, but they think others

920
00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:03.039
<v Speaker 2>hold it differently. Dogmas are eternal truths, eternal verities. That is,

921
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:08.320
<v Speaker 2>they're eternal because the reality they describe is eternal. If

922
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:10.480
<v Speaker 2>you say that God does not have a physical form,

923
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:13.519
<v Speaker 2>it's not because the Rabbi is decided God doesn't have

924
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.880
<v Speaker 2>a physical form, and they decided differently than that would

925
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:21.719
<v Speaker 2>be an acceptable belief. No, this is the theological truth.

926
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:25.679
<v Speaker 2>It was never decided. That's what it is. And if

927
00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:28.440
<v Speaker 2>all the Rabbis get together tomorrow and decide that God

928
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:31.840
<v Speaker 2>has a physical form, well, these rabbis are all wrong,

929
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:34.960
<v Speaker 2>because God not having a physical form or any other

930
00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:40.280
<v Speaker 2>theological truth is an eternal truth. It's not decided by

931
00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:43.239
<v Speaker 2>the rabbis. It has always been this way and will

932
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:45.880
<v Speaker 2>always be this way. And according to the Rambum you're sharing,

933
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:49.360
<v Speaker 2>the world to come depends on this. So, as I said,

934
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:51.400
<v Speaker 2>if the majority of the rabbis get together and decide

935
00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:54.360
<v Speaker 2>God as a physical form, it doesn't change anything. On

936
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:58.320
<v Speaker 2>the contrary, you would be obligated to oppose the rabbis.

937
00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:01.760
<v Speaker 2>The old paradox we spoke about earlier, you'd be obligated

938
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:03.639
<v Speaker 2>to be a zukin mamray. If we have a son hedron,

939
00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:06.199
<v Speaker 2>the son hedron declares that we all have to believe

940
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:09.239
<v Speaker 2>that God has a physical form, we would still be

941
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:13.360
<v Speaker 2>obligated to say that this son hedron are teaching heresy

942
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:17.079
<v Speaker 2>and we reject them, and uh, it doesn't matter. We'd

943
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:20.159
<v Speaker 2>have to be executed. I guess does zuking momra Because

944
00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:24.039
<v Speaker 2>it's like I heard from my father once that Abraham

945
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Lincoln at a cabinet meeting he would ask take a

946
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:32.199
<v Speaker 2>vote and uh, you know how many eyes and you

947
00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:34.639
<v Speaker 2>know the cabinet ten people raise their hand, and the

948
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:37.079
<v Speaker 2>nose he'd raise his hand. He'd say, the nose have it.

949
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:37.480
<v Speaker 3>You know.

950
00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Uh, if you're right, you're in the majority. So if

951
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:46.760
<v Speaker 2>the from the Ramama's perspective, he's always in the majority.

952
00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:49.280
<v Speaker 2>The fact that a lot of other people disagree doesn't

953
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:56.719
<v Speaker 2>change anything I have written, and I have not yet

954
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:59.800
<v Speaker 2>been contradicted. So I assume it's correct that all the

955
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:03.519
<v Speaker 2>medieval philosophical reshow name, in fact, perhaps all the reshow name,

956
00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:06.199
<v Speaker 2>we're in agreement with the wrong bomb that dogmas don't

957
00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:09.039
<v Speaker 2>change with time. In other words, none of the is

958
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:11.559
<v Speaker 2>shown name. No one is able to find one of

959
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:15.000
<v Speaker 2>the medieval writers. I say medieval because we're gonna see

960
00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:17.840
<v Speaker 2>a more recent writer, and not just more recent, a

961
00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:20.519
<v Speaker 2>very important figure the custom sofa. You can't get much

962
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:22.280
<v Speaker 2>more important in that. But none of the reshown him,

963
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.480
<v Speaker 2>as far as I know, when no one has pointed

964
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:30.239
<v Speaker 2>any out. Assume that something that used to be a

965
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:33.440
<v Speaker 2>dogma is no longer so, and what used to not

966
00:56:33.559 --> 00:56:36.559
<v Speaker 2>be a dogma now is so. In other words, if

967
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:39.320
<v Speaker 2>it used to be heresy, then it's always heresy. And

968
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:41.840
<v Speaker 2>by the same token, if it wasn't heresy in the past,

969
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:45.239
<v Speaker 2>it can't be heresy now. The only way such changes

970
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:48.440
<v Speaker 2>could happen is if the will of the rabbi is

971
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:50.440
<v Speaker 2>determine what's a dogma. So, in other words, you can

972
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:53.159
<v Speaker 2>have in this generation the Rabbi is determined, you must

973
00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:55.480
<v Speaker 2>believe this, and the next generation a tournament. You must

974
00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:58.960
<v Speaker 2>believe that the opposite. But that means that dogmas are

975
00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:01.480
<v Speaker 2>determined by the rabbis. That doesn't make any sense for

976
00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:04.039
<v Speaker 2>the rambamb or the medievals. As I said, a dogma

977
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:06.719
<v Speaker 2>is an eternal truth, and it doesn't matter what the

978
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:10.079
<v Speaker 2>rabbis say uh that if then the rabbis are wrong,

979
00:57:11.239 --> 00:57:14.280
<v Speaker 2>if this is what in the Rambam's opinion. Incidentally, this

980
00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:19.239
<v Speaker 2>the position that dogmas change is actually advocated by none

981
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:22.920
<v Speaker 2>other than Soul Berlin in the work be Summim Roche

982
00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:27.679
<v Speaker 2>Rafshaul Berlin in his forgery Besummi Roche puts in to

983
00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:30.119
<v Speaker 2>the mouth of I'm not sure if it's the Russ

984
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:33.119
<v Speaker 2>or an anonymous re shown there this idea that every

985
00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:38.159
<v Speaker 2>generation dogmas change. In fact, Solomon Schachter wrote a famous

986
00:57:38.239 --> 00:57:41.480
<v Speaker 2>article called the dogmas of Judaism. He cites this. He

987
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:43.760
<v Speaker 2>cites this, he knows it's written by Saul Berlin, and

988
00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:46.000
<v Speaker 2>he cites it as written by Saul Berlin. But he

989
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:48.360
<v Speaker 2>likes it. He says, this is how we should think

990
00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:51.159
<v Speaker 2>of dogmas, that they change, but this is not a

991
00:57:51.400 --> 00:57:54.760
<v Speaker 2>traditional view. What I'm going to end, I'll end with

992
00:57:54.880 --> 00:58:00.840
<v Speaker 2>this is that we see this that I'm correct. I

993
00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:05.039
<v Speaker 2>believe in how the people argue and disagree with the rumbum.

994
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:09.840
<v Speaker 2>When they want to show that the Rumbum's incorrect, that

995
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:12.119
<v Speaker 2>a position is not a dogma, what do they do.

996
00:58:12.519 --> 00:58:15.199
<v Speaker 2>They cite a tana, They cite an a mohra. When

997
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:18.119
<v Speaker 2>Rebbi the Riaz wants to show that the Rumbam's wrong,

998
00:58:18.679 --> 00:58:22.519
<v Speaker 2>that belief in God's incorporeality is not a dogma, he

999
00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:24.840
<v Speaker 2>agrees it's true, but it's not a dogma meaning you

1000
00:58:24.880 --> 00:58:27.599
<v Speaker 2>become erotic. He points to the fact that there are

1001
00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:30.119
<v Speaker 2>sages in the Tamud who believe this. So therefore, if

1002
00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:32.519
<v Speaker 2>there's stages in the Talmud, it can't be a doctrine

1003
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:35.079
<v Speaker 2>because we see some sages of the Tumult held this

1004
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:39.760
<v Speaker 2>and they're not heretics. In other words, They never say that, well,

1005
00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:42.480
<v Speaker 2>it used to be okay for this those sages, but

1006
00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:45.360
<v Speaker 2>now the Halah has been decided that the dogma is this,

1007
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:48.599
<v Speaker 2>and therefore it's forbidden. No, they try to refute the

1008
00:58:48.719 --> 00:58:51.599
<v Speaker 2>rumbum and say what the Rumbam says can't be a

1009
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:54.760
<v Speaker 2>doctrine a dogma, namely that if you disagree, you're a heretic.

1010
00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:57.079
<v Speaker 2>And what's the proof. The proof is that this great

1011
00:58:57.239 --> 00:59:00.039
<v Speaker 2>Ama he held this, and if he held it, and

1012
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:02.320
<v Speaker 2>obviously he's in a heretic by definition, it can't be

1013
00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:05.880
<v Speaker 2>a dogma. They never say, well, he could have said it,

1014
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:08.840
<v Speaker 2>but we can't because it's now changed. The fact that

1015
00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:12.159
<v Speaker 2>the Amorra said it means that it's not a dogma.

1016
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:16.280
<v Speaker 2>We will see next class, however, what jose Valbo has

1017
00:59:16.280 --> 00:59:18.119
<v Speaker 2>to say about this and the Hustom Sofur, because the

1018
00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:23.360
<v Speaker 2>hustom Sofur actually does adopt the position that dogmas change

1019
00:59:23.559 --> 00:59:26.719
<v Speaker 2>in opposition to the position I just set out. And

1020
00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:32.599
<v Speaker 2>then we'll see what Rebbi Mazoos says about this. I'll

1021
00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:37.639
<v Speaker 2>try to defend my position as well. And then all

1022
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:41.840
<v Speaker 2>next week, all sorts of all sorts of good stuff,

1023
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:48.920
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna move into different areas away from theology, okay,

1024
00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:52.639
<v Speaker 2>into some politics perhaps as well. We've spall oh sorry,

1025
00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:55.079
<v Speaker 2>nine to thirty one. So let me take the questions

1026
00:59:55.159 --> 00:59:59.760
<v Speaker 2>and comments. I hope today we raise some interesting issues.

1027
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:03.599
<v Speaker 2>David Eisen says that Twiski's will specify that mourners are

1028
01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:09.199
<v Speaker 2>citing new eulogies. Instead, he asked they sing a popular melody. Well, okay,

1029
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:10.320
<v Speaker 2>well that's where we spoke about.

1030
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:10.639
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

1031
01:00:11.960 --> 01:00:18.199
<v Speaker 2>The Barry Hartman says, I spared by Shaya Miller Tom

1032
01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:21.199
<v Speaker 2>Winter of Dovis Salve and did he write anything about

1033
01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:25.000
<v Speaker 2>the love? When you say did he write anything about

1034
01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:28.760
<v Speaker 2>the rove? I don't do. The Rabbi salivk Uh they

1035
01:00:29.239 --> 01:00:33.239
<v Speaker 2>they didn't. I mean they they It's not like they

1036
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:36.079
<v Speaker 2>they they kept them out of the fold. Uh by

1037
01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:39.639
<v Speaker 2>his brother of doved Salvation's brother, a Mayor Salaveachik in

1038
01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:41.559
<v Speaker 2>the book they published about him a couple of years ago,

1039
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:46.239
<v Speaker 2>two big volumes called Mayor, and he says that head

1040
01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:49.639
<v Speaker 2>Yasha Baar not become Asiini, he would have been the

1041
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:51.920
<v Speaker 2>gooddle for all of us, because he says that we

1042
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:54.920
<v Speaker 2>know that he was greater than all of us. Two

1043
01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:58.880
<v Speaker 2>grandchildren of the love Ramyor Twiskytening. We're Tom Meetinger of Dove.

1044
01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Salvh es they went to risk because if you're in

1045
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Israel and you want to know where brisk is, you go,

1046
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:12.000
<v Speaker 2>you go to brisk Uh the Yeshivash. Yes we know that, Felixeran,

1047
01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:16.440
<v Speaker 2>he says, Hakhamavadio josef Aloud not live cole Isha. Actually

1048
01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:18.400
<v Speaker 2>it's more than that. Go back to the the the

1049
01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:22.280
<v Speaker 2>earlier classes. We had well not live. Yes, well we

1050
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:25.320
<v Speaker 2>spoke about this that in his uh in the a

1051
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:28.599
<v Speaker 2>bi Ohmer he says that you can't if you recognize

1052
01:01:28.639 --> 01:01:31.039
<v Speaker 2>the person, you can't listen to it. But then he

1053
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:34.960
<v Speaker 2>says explicitly in the he changed his mind. It's in

1054
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:36.880
<v Speaker 2>the bee oh Mare, but just in a little place

1055
01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:38.400
<v Speaker 2>you won't be able to find it. But in the

1056
01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:40.880
<v Speaker 2>letter here from his son, he says they changed his mind.

1057
01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:44.679
<v Speaker 2>And he said that even watching television, it's it's okay.

1058
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:47.519
<v Speaker 2>So uh, if you want to watch the Mayanoak girls

1059
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:50.760
<v Speaker 2>and you want to rely on Hakhamavadya, you can watch

1060
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:54.440
<v Speaker 2>them if you feel it's appropriate for you. That's the

1061
01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:59.320
<v Speaker 2>whole point. If years ago Nashama Karlbach used to perform

1062
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:04.599
<v Speaker 2>and the advertisements for her performances used to say, concert,

1063
01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:08.360
<v Speaker 2>let's say this for for women and for men for

1064
01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:10.960
<v Speaker 2>whom it is permitted. What does that mean for men

1065
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:13.760
<v Speaker 2>for whom it is permitted? I'd never heard of this

1066
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:16.840
<v Speaker 2>going to Yeshiva, so I actually her post sake. Now

1067
01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:19.679
<v Speaker 2>she's reformed, she's left it all. But in those days

1068
01:02:19.719 --> 01:02:22.880
<v Speaker 2>she followed at her post sake was by Morteai Tendler,

1069
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:25.840
<v Speaker 2>So I asked him about this, and he said that

1070
01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:28.280
<v Speaker 2>this is exactly what we saw. That if a man

1071
01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:30.599
<v Speaker 2>feels he's going to be sexually aroused, he shouldn't go.

1072
01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:33.840
<v Speaker 2>If not, it's like other areas where it's left. And

1073
01:02:33.920 --> 01:02:35.679
<v Speaker 2>he claims, I don't know if it's true, but he

1074
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:38.840
<v Speaker 2>claims that that's his grandfather's position ramotion as well. But

1075
01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:42.119
<v Speaker 2>these ads would say for men for whom it's permitted,

1076
01:02:42.519 --> 01:02:46.719
<v Speaker 2>that's uh. Burr says important point. Didn't see them seemed

1077
01:02:46.760 --> 01:02:50.039
<v Speaker 2>only females there, No, no, no, they's the audience is

1078
01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:52.360
<v Speaker 2>male and female, like it's said. Not only that. We

1079
01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:55.039
<v Speaker 2>even have bands that are boys and girl bands. They

1080
01:02:55.119 --> 01:02:58.559
<v Speaker 2>combine them. The JC my alma mater band is boys

1081
01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:01.360
<v Speaker 2>and girls and it's all the high school kids. From

1082
01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:03.760
<v Speaker 2>all the areas and all their parents. It's it's it's

1083
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:06.480
<v Speaker 2>this isn't like you have in bass Alcohov where you

1084
01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:11.000
<v Speaker 2>have performances and uh, only the the mothers come. No, no,

1085
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:15.960
<v Speaker 2>it's it's everyone there and you can jay. Rabbi Helma says,

1086
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:18.320
<v Speaker 2>not done in Toronto, mothers of community. As far as

1087
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:27.559
<v Speaker 2>I know, I didn't see the question. Oh the men,

1088
01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:29.119
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see it. Oh you are the men in

1089
01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:31.400
<v Speaker 2>the audience. Yes, they're men in the audience. They're men

1090
01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:34.400
<v Speaker 2>in the audience. Listen, I was in the audience. My

1091
01:03:34.519 --> 01:03:37.280
<v Speaker 2>son is performing. The son, my son who wakes up

1092
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:40.719
<v Speaker 2>every morning to do mischnayas before dobvining. He also is

1093
01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:43.119
<v Speaker 2>a performer and he plays the guitar and sings. So

1094
01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:46.239
<v Speaker 2>but everyone was there, including the principal of the school.

1095
01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:50.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's you don't know who's singing to you

1096
01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:51.559
<v Speaker 2>go there by the way, you don't know if it's

1097
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:54.760
<v Speaker 2>boys or but everyone. But but all the plays they

1098
01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:59.480
<v Speaker 2>always have girls singing joint. In my kids school, they

1099
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:03.880
<v Speaker 2>always have two. You can't have solos. But uh, the

1100
01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:06.760
<v Speaker 2>Zemer Festival Hasidi sponsored room is Rachi and nine side

1101
01:04:06.760 --> 01:04:10.119
<v Speaker 2>women singing solo. Chief Rabbis Veriti Strol used to sit

1102
01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:14.639
<v Speaker 2>when women in the soldiers women would sing. They sat

1103
01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:16.639
<v Speaker 2>now listen. I'm sure in their mind they were learning

1104
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:18.599
<v Speaker 2>tower and things like that, but they didn't get up.

1105
01:04:18.679 --> 01:04:21.639
<v Speaker 2>We have pictures of them sitting there when they would sing.

1106
01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Because you have a song, let's say about the how

1107
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:26.800
<v Speaker 2>a song about Israel or about the Holocaust or something.

1108
01:04:27.760 --> 01:04:29.920
<v Speaker 2>So again, I'm not it's not for me to be halaha.

1109
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:32.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm just pointing out for the person who asked me

1110
01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:34.159
<v Speaker 2>like this far a question at the modern Athodox girls,

1111
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:36.239
<v Speaker 2>and I'm saying, what kind of question is that the

1112
01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:39.760
<v Speaker 2>mono Othosk girls have girls singing in groups there from

1113
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:48.039
<v Speaker 2>performing it's not uh uh racing at twisky funeral. Singing

1114
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:50.880
<v Speaker 2>aloud in a cemetery seems problematic. Uh why would it

1115
01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:54.440
<v Speaker 2>be problematic to singing a cemetery. It's problematic to say

1116
01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:57.440
<v Speaker 2>to Hillem in a cemetery of cord the rambam because

1117
01:04:57.440 --> 01:05:00.079
<v Speaker 2>you're not allowed to learn towra it's liligo rush. But

1118
01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:02.320
<v Speaker 2>do we rinald the dolphin the cemetery if you read

1119
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:04.360
<v Speaker 2>the raalm bum carefully. But we don't hold by that,

1120
01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:06.440
<v Speaker 2>so we will be the problem with singing in the cemetery.

1121
01:05:06.440 --> 01:05:08.159
<v Speaker 2>You're not having a concert in the cemetery. You're not

1122
01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:13.440
<v Speaker 2>doing anything like that. Yakoviellen says, if he recalls correctly,

1123
01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Refuserski quotes the section of his book or aboudo Poscia. Yes,

1124
01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:18.320
<v Speaker 2>he not only quotes that, he goes into great detail

1125
01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:22.639
<v Speaker 2>because this is a famous uh issue between the Rambam

1126
01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:28.119
<v Speaker 2>and the Riva. Where about godoling Vatovini menu? In fact,

1127
01:05:28.280 --> 01:05:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't think there's any question. Gadolin Veatovian menu means

1128
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:34.320
<v Speaker 2>greater than a rambum, but says, what does he mean

1129
01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Adolin Vetovin menu? He means there were goodoling Vitoving not

1130
01:05:39.199 --> 01:05:43.480
<v Speaker 2>greater than than him, the rum bamb Goadoli Vetovian menu

1131
01:05:43.599 --> 01:05:46.920
<v Speaker 2>greater than us. That is, there are people greater than

1132
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:50.039
<v Speaker 2>us who thought out of a physical form. There are

1133
01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Sah didn't want to read it as if there because

1134
01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:55.480
<v Speaker 2>the Rivas insulting the Ramam. When he says that Goadoli

1135
01:05:55.559 --> 01:05:59.159
<v Speaker 2>vetovinan menu, it's hard to this comes. I think it's

1136
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:04.400
<v Speaker 2>a verse. In it's a verse in tanach god Vetovi Manu.

1137
01:06:04.519 --> 01:06:07.760
<v Speaker 2>So until the case, until the I don't know if

1138
01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:12.480
<v Speaker 2>anyone had that interpretation that it means godovetovi among us.

1139
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:15.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it's clear. The ra, the riva, jabs, the

1140
01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:24.320
<v Speaker 2>rambam a few places like that. Someone privately texts me

1141
01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:27.639
<v Speaker 2>that I may recall vadios its chivy chabas and mirosl

1142
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:33.639
<v Speaker 2>urbane We're present was published in Amayan. But I mean

1143
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:36.760
<v Speaker 2>we spoke about the the chuva the and I dealt

1144
01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:39.679
<v Speaker 2>with it, and the quest is on uh ravadio safe.

1145
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:42.519
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even remember. I'm gonna mark that down.

1146
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:42.920
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

1147
01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I think he says, there, close your eyes, don't make

1148
01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:48.639
<v Speaker 2>a little sham, don't stand up, uh uh and leave,

1149
01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:51.360
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. Wait me, the rabbi is not happy. The

1150
01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:53.360
<v Speaker 2>chief rabbis are not happy to have the girls get

1151
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:56.119
<v Speaker 2>up and uh. But the the other only option is

1152
01:06:56.199 --> 01:06:58.000
<v Speaker 2>to get up and walk out, and they thought that

1153
01:06:58.079 --> 01:07:00.719
<v Speaker 2>that would create ill will, so they would close their

1154
01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:03.760
<v Speaker 2>eyes do things like that. Listen what I just showed

1155
01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:05.280
<v Speaker 2>you from the girls of my note. It's not really

1156
01:07:05.360 --> 01:07:08.480
<v Speaker 2>rock of Weinberg Briolac of Weinberg's head. There is explicit

1157
01:07:08.599 --> 01:07:11.280
<v Speaker 2>two things. That's two parts. Part number one it has

1158
01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:14.440
<v Speaker 2>to be Trey Cully two songs sing together, which I

1159
01:07:14.480 --> 01:07:16.320
<v Speaker 2>guess you have. And the other is it has to

1160
01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:21.280
<v Speaker 2>be holy songs, and that's clearly singing fun or the

1161
01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:24.159
<v Speaker 2>other music that's that's not holy songs. So you can't

1162
01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:28.159
<v Speaker 2>cite the stretch for this. So you have emotion emotional

1163
01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:31.199
<v Speaker 2>Liechtenstein that it's not gonna be aroused. I don't know

1164
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:33.920
<v Speaker 2>who says it's, uh, maybe it will be I. I

1165
01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:36.360
<v Speaker 2>it's if I was running to school. I don't think

1166
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:39.159
<v Speaker 2>I would do that, but whatever you gotta. You gotta

1167
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:41.880
<v Speaker 2>give the kids some outwits. And can you have a

1168
01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:43.920
<v Speaker 2>battle of the bands and say girls are not allowed

1169
01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:47.039
<v Speaker 2>to perform? It would be hard with these crowds, So

1170
01:07:47.159 --> 01:07:49.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. David says I proposed the question if

1171
01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:53.039
<v Speaker 2>Swiffkin should be considered a heretic. See his latest blog

1172
01:07:53.119 --> 01:07:58.639
<v Speaker 2>post announcing publication of his book Rationalism Versus Mysticism, his

1173
01:07:58.719 --> 01:08:02.719
<v Speaker 2>most controversial, most controversial work. I don't think it's his

1174
01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:07.199
<v Speaker 2>most controversial work. Sosas the sheer Cooma. Yes, sher Coma

1175
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:09.519
<v Speaker 2>is a text, but what is sher coma? The ra

1176
01:08:09.679 --> 01:08:14.159
<v Speaker 2>mom thought this was some heretical work by these Byzantine types.

1177
01:08:14.519 --> 01:08:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Sheer Coma portrays God in gigantic size that to be

1178
01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:22.880
<v Speaker 2>taken literally, it's it's not clear the rabbi, yes, Riverial Zimmer,

1179
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:29.239
<v Speaker 2>that's the rabbi he wrote to and David gave the link.

1180
01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Anyone could watch there to the delivered escorted to the

1181
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:38.840
<v Speaker 2>grave with the thegooning he composed in terms of getting

1182
01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:41.119
<v Speaker 2>back to Borrows question, is the appropriate? The only thing

1183
01:08:41.239 --> 01:08:44.319
<v Speaker 2>I know that would be inappropriate. This is actually stated

1184
01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:46.600
<v Speaker 2>by Ruffi Causill j Huda Greenwald. I know we have

1185
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:49.399
<v Speaker 2>one person from Columbus who listens to the classes. He

1186
01:08:49.479 --> 01:08:51.640
<v Speaker 2>was a row for many years in Columbus. He wrote

1187
01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:55.279
<v Speaker 2>the book Cobo Alvebloswitch for many years was the standard work.

1188
01:08:55.840 --> 01:09:01.079
<v Speaker 2>He attacks the modern Orthodox rabbis. I don't know what

1189
01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:03.399
<v Speaker 2>the definition of a modern North shrabbi was in his day.

1190
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:06.479
<v Speaker 2>He died. I think in forty five he speaks to

1191
01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:10.159
<v Speaker 2>them that when they would carry the coffin, the rabbi

1192
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:12.880
<v Speaker 2>would stand and stand in front of the coffin, walk

1193
01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:15.439
<v Speaker 2>in front of it and reciting to Hilim. He says

1194
01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:18.760
<v Speaker 2>that comes from the volume. I'm thinking, though I've been

1195
01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:21.560
<v Speaker 2>to funerals, do we ever have funerals where our rabbis

1196
01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:24.640
<v Speaker 2>walk in front of the coffin reading to Hilim or something.

1197
01:09:24.680 --> 01:09:27.239
<v Speaker 2>I think we do, but Rabbi Greenwald, maybe we don't.

1198
01:09:27.560 --> 01:09:30.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember now. But Rabbi Greenwald says that that's

1199
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:33.560
<v Speaker 2>an example of taking a non Jewish practice hookahs a

1200
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:39.319
<v Speaker 2>volume walking in front of the coffin. Yes, I could

1201
01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:40.680
<v Speaker 2>send you by I can send you the link if

1202
01:09:40.720 --> 01:09:48.640
<v Speaker 2>you want about Remayer Salavacik. You want me to share

1203
01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:50.560
<v Speaker 2>the U R L or the Maya O clip, I'll

1204
01:09:50.600 --> 01:09:51.640
<v Speaker 2>share it to you.

1205
01:09:51.720 --> 01:09:51.760
<v Speaker 3>Know.

1206
01:09:51.880 --> 01:09:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Let me just let me just show you something.

1207
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

1208
01:09:54.520 --> 01:09:58.600
<v Speaker 2>We're having some doubts. I was here. Hold on a second,

1209
01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:14.520
<v Speaker 2>we close up. I think here, here you go. It's

1210
01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:18.079
<v Speaker 2>all one group, one room. By the way, this is

1211
01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:38.399
<v Speaker 2>the first here. Okay, you can see a man or

1212
01:10:38.439 --> 01:10:40.399
<v Speaker 2>two there. Take my word for it. They're all The

1213
01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:43.039
<v Speaker 2>room is full of men because it's the same they

1214
01:10:43.119 --> 01:10:46.560
<v Speaker 2>went uh right before the boys. They're all uh, they're

1215
01:10:46.560 --> 01:10:50.399
<v Speaker 2>all together. It's all uh. It's all one group. In fact,

1216
01:10:50.479 --> 01:10:54.960
<v Speaker 2>if I can, that's the Messifica of Waterbury. If I

1217
01:10:55.159 --> 01:10:57.520
<v Speaker 2>pull it up here, I can show you quickly the

1218
01:10:57.640 --> 01:11:03.439
<v Speaker 2>JC it's it's a boys and girls group mix. But okay, whatever,

1219
01:11:03.439 --> 01:11:06.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't need to. It's a it's a co ed group,

1220
01:11:07.159 --> 01:11:15.279
<v Speaker 2>co ed audience. All the parents are there actually, since

1221
01:11:15.319 --> 01:11:20.159
<v Speaker 2>so we have just one more minute here, I will uh,

1222
01:11:20.720 --> 01:11:23.000
<v Speaker 2>you don't mind holding on one more minute because not

1223
01:11:23.159 --> 01:11:26.079
<v Speaker 2>that Baro doubts me. But I'm going to show you

1224
01:11:26.199 --> 01:11:32.359
<v Speaker 2>something right now, my friend. I'm going to show you.

1225
01:11:33.479 --> 01:11:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Hold on a second, my alma mater. Here you go.

1226
01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:46.279
<v Speaker 2>I believe I have it here. Hold on a second. Oops, okay,

1227
01:11:47.319 --> 01:11:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll show you next class, the the the BREWA one.

1228
01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:54.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why I I can't see it now,

1229
01:11:54.159 --> 01:11:58.000
<v Speaker 2>but I don't wanna. I don't want to waste your

1230
01:11:58.119 --> 01:12:02.479
<v Speaker 2>time on on that. But take my word for it.

1231
01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:04.840
<v Speaker 2>You don't need to take my word for it to

1232
01:12:05.199 --> 01:12:07.680
<v Speaker 2>show it to you. Hold on a second. Maybe I

1233
01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:12.439
<v Speaker 2>got it here. I'm looking quickly at the.

1234
01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:15.399
<v Speaker 3>Now.

1235
01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:18.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm seeing all the bands. I don't see the JC

1236
01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:22.560
<v Speaker 2>band here. But okay, let's get back to the questions.

1237
01:12:22.640 --> 01:12:26.159
<v Speaker 2>Let's finish up. Well. The reason the girls sang in

1238
01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the front is because when the girls it was like

1239
01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:30.840
<v Speaker 2>a battle of the sexist sort of thing. So when

1240
01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:33.239
<v Speaker 2>the girls sang, all the girls went to the front.

1241
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:35.520
<v Speaker 2>When the boys sang, all the boys went to the

1242
01:12:35.560 --> 01:12:42.960
<v Speaker 2>front to cheer on. That's the that's how it worked. No,

1243
01:12:43.199 --> 01:12:45.239
<v Speaker 2>no boys left when the right wing ones. You know what,

1244
01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:50.520
<v Speaker 2>maybe Messifita of Waterberry, they might have left when the

1245
01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:53.760
<v Speaker 2>girls sang, I don't know. I can tell you you're

1246
01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:55.720
<v Speaker 2>trying to find the host for the Mono Orthodox. I

1247
01:12:56.079 --> 01:13:00.479
<v Speaker 2>get it. I get it. Very nice. The was these

1248
01:13:00.520 --> 01:13:01.840
<v Speaker 2>and these are the words of the living God. And

1249
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:04.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that some members of a se okay hard

1250
01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:06.560
<v Speaker 2>to believe with the rise of from kind of monoon

1251
01:13:06.720 --> 01:13:08.800
<v Speaker 2>circles and none of this have changed in these themes. Okay,

1252
01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:11.399
<v Speaker 2>that's an interesting point, and I'll end with this is

1253
01:13:11.439 --> 01:13:15.760
<v Speaker 2>the last thing. The schools are much more liberal than

1254
01:13:15.800 --> 01:13:19.520
<v Speaker 2>the Shoals if you look at modern Orthodox high schools,

1255
01:13:20.239 --> 01:13:24.560
<v Speaker 2>because they pull in from a wide, much wider range,

1256
01:13:24.880 --> 01:13:26.359
<v Speaker 2>and in fact, you have many people who are not

1257
01:13:26.479 --> 01:13:30.319
<v Speaker 2>really Schomer Schambas in some of these schools. The schools

1258
01:13:30.520 --> 01:13:34.239
<v Speaker 2>are and have always been more liberal than the Shoals.

1259
01:13:34.399 --> 01:13:37.279
<v Speaker 2>The Shools would never have anything like this. In fact,

1260
01:13:37.359 --> 01:13:40.960
<v Speaker 2>the rabbis, when the rabbis of the when the rabbis

1261
01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:44.000
<v Speaker 2>come to events at the schools, and when the teachers

1262
01:13:44.039 --> 01:13:45.960
<v Speaker 2>are at the events. And let's say you have a

1263
01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:49.000
<v Speaker 2>play and then you have the girls singing two girls,

1264
01:13:49.640 --> 01:13:52.760
<v Speaker 2>the rabbis get up and the rebbies get up, and

1265
01:13:52.880 --> 01:13:55.760
<v Speaker 2>they walk out, and it's demonstrable when they get up,

1266
01:13:55.840 --> 01:13:58.079
<v Speaker 2>you see them uh. And you never would have this

1267
01:13:58.199 --> 01:14:00.520
<v Speaker 2>at the shoals, but you have it at the schools.

1268
01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:05.279
<v Speaker 2>And and these are all the schools. And Missift of

1269
01:14:05.359 --> 01:14:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Woodbury allows their students. Maybe they tell their students when

1270
01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:11.760
<v Speaker 2>the girls sing to leave, but their students participate in uh,

1271
01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:13.560
<v Speaker 2>in this battle of the bands.

1272
01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:13.960
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

1273
01:14:14.279 --> 01:14:17.279
<v Speaker 2>And that's this quasi gadi uh sort of place. But

1274
01:14:17.359 --> 01:14:19.239
<v Speaker 2>it's an interesting and land with this bar it's it's

1275
01:14:19.239 --> 01:14:23.479
<v Speaker 2>an interesting point. There is a real distinction between the camps,

1276
01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:28.000
<v Speaker 2>the schools and the shoals. The shoals are much more

1277
01:14:28.119 --> 01:14:31.720
<v Speaker 2>traditional and and are moving much more traditional that things

1278
01:14:31.760 --> 01:14:35.319
<v Speaker 2>that will never be allowed at the shoals are allowed

1279
01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:38.920
<v Speaker 2>in schools. Then yes, I'm sure the rebbies tell their

1280
01:14:39.680 --> 01:14:42.640
<v Speaker 2>tell their students that they should leave. And I'm sure

1281
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:45.960
<v Speaker 2>my son comes back, he's gonna be he's gonna be

1282
01:14:46.039 --> 01:14:48.840
<v Speaker 2>very angry that how we ever, you know what, just

1283
01:14:50.319 --> 01:14:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I will just show you one more thing and then

1284
01:14:51.960 --> 01:14:55.600
<v Speaker 2>we'll end with this because he listens to to some

1285
01:14:55.760 --> 01:15:02.319
<v Speaker 2>of these just so shep a, Uh, show you something

1286
01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:09.199
<v Speaker 2>here so you can see the this is the guy

1287
01:15:09.399 --> 01:15:11.800
<v Speaker 2>my son. I'll show you who now is learning Uh

1288
01:15:13.039 --> 01:15:16.520
<v Speaker 2>all day all night. And uh, I asked, I'm telling

1289
01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:18.079
<v Speaker 2>you he had COVID but I so I told him

1290
01:15:18.119 --> 01:15:20.119
<v Speaker 2>that he has to go get his uh, try to

1291
01:15:20.199 --> 01:15:23.039
<v Speaker 2>find a place where they'll give him a vaccine because

1292
01:15:23.039 --> 01:15:24.800
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, if they have extra

1293
01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:27.359
<v Speaker 2>as an Israel, they'll give it to him. And uh,

1294
01:15:27.520 --> 01:15:29.880
<v Speaker 2>he says, no, it's Dean of the Mahusse. He can't

1295
01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:34.039
<v Speaker 2>go because the government says you can't. I said, it's not.

1296
01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:35.920
<v Speaker 2>At the end of the day, they'll give it to you.

1297
01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:37.680
<v Speaker 2>He goes, no, No, it's den in the Mahusea Dina.

1298
01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:41.039
<v Speaker 2>I can't. So this is this is the the Kushner

1299
01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:55.880
<v Speaker 2>and uh, my son is the guitar player. So they're

1300
01:15:55.920 --> 01:15:59.000
<v Speaker 2>not gonna win any Grammys or anything. But uh, listen,

1301
01:15:59.079 --> 01:16:01.279
<v Speaker 2>at the modern schools, you got to give them these

1302
01:16:01.319 --> 01:16:05.359
<v Speaker 2>sort of outlets. They're not they uh, and most of

1303
01:16:05.399 --> 01:16:08.560
<v Speaker 2>the kids turn out very very nicely and everything. You

1304
01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:11.680
<v Speaker 2>got them play their music, do their things. And my

1305
01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:16.399
<v Speaker 2>son's a bigazan. You should hear his mussaf and okay, well,

1306
01:16:16.479 --> 01:16:19.800
<v Speaker 2>and Dina Mahussel trumps cook fish. That's what I said

1307
01:16:19.840 --> 01:16:21.560
<v Speaker 2>to my son. I said, they're gonna throw it out.

1308
01:16:21.760 --> 01:16:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

1309
01:16:22.399 --> 01:16:24.039
<v Speaker 2>At the end of the day, Israel has a pony

1310
01:16:24.079 --> 01:16:27.039
<v Speaker 2>of vaccines. And he said no, he says, it's dinner, Mahusa, Dina.

1311
01:16:27.319 --> 01:16:29.479
<v Speaker 2>I have to wait until the government says uh.

1312
01:16:30.119 --> 01:16:30.239
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

1313
01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:33.000
<v Speaker 2>I think as you get older, dinner Mahusse, become a

1314
01:16:33.039 --> 01:16:36.239
<v Speaker 2>little more cynical on this because you realize that the

1315
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:38.760
<v Speaker 2>government rules are not necessary. I remember we asked were

1316
01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:42.760
<v Speaker 2>seeing this because when I was in Israel, you had

1317
01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:47.000
<v Speaker 2>these rules. You weren't allowed to change money. You know,

1318
01:16:47.039 --> 01:16:49.399
<v Speaker 2>people would go according to legally you weren't allowed to.

1319
01:16:49.399 --> 01:16:50.720
<v Speaker 2>You can only do them in the bank, so people

1320
01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:53.960
<v Speaker 2>go to Allenby Street and other places. This sidium would

1321
01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:56.199
<v Speaker 2>change it. But we were mock pid on it. At BMT,

1322
01:16:56.560 --> 01:16:59.760
<v Speaker 2>we're very MAMACHTI we're very mock pid. And I remember

1323
01:16:59.880 --> 01:17:02.880
<v Speaker 2>me and my friend Jeff k where like Dina the Mahusadina,

1324
01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:05.840
<v Speaker 2>it's it's us, sir. This guy from Revron Crevron was

1325
01:17:05.880 --> 01:17:07.800
<v Speaker 2>right near be empty. He came over to change money,

1326
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:10.039
<v Speaker 2>and my friends started screaming at him. Get out. He's

1327
01:17:10.079 --> 01:17:14.000
<v Speaker 2>violin dinna masina. But then we asked. Reine said, you know,

1328
01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the government's not mock ped on the small amounts, so

1329
01:17:17.199 --> 01:17:20.760
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't think it's a problem, you know, changing small amounts.

1330
01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:23.199
<v Speaker 2>But I get it because I see my son with

1331
01:17:23.279 --> 01:17:28.439
<v Speaker 2>the dinner machusdina. I also had it as well. Okay everyone,

1332
01:17:28.560 --> 01:17:31.439
<v Speaker 2>thank you all, and uh actually died a BArch. I

1333
01:17:31.479 --> 01:17:33.359
<v Speaker 2>don't get this. I get more than achas on the

1334
01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:38.960
<v Speaker 2>kreasata and on the and on the the mussaf. But okay,

1335
01:17:39.039 --> 01:17:41.800
<v Speaker 2>it's okay to play the guitar. Also, he leads the

1336
01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:45.720
<v Speaker 2>cums that says he does all this stuff. There's there's

1337
01:17:45.760 --> 01:17:48.680
<v Speaker 2>worse things to do for high schoolers. Believe me, very preper.

1338
01:17:51.279 --> 01:17:54.119
<v Speaker 1>This series was originally recorded in twenty twenty and twenty

1339
01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:57.079
<v Speaker 1>twenty one as part of an ongoing lecture series. To

1340
01:17:57.119 --> 01:17:59.000
<v Speaker 1>sign up to attend the electure on zoom please is

1341
01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:01.880
<v Speaker 1>it toren Motion? Do please rate and review us in

1342
01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:04.319
<v Speaker 1>your favorite podcast apt or even better, tell a friend

1343
01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:05.439
<v Speaker 1>to give a podcast to listen