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Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this, Man, you letting butterfly

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flapin and.

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Speaker 2: Wing dig down in a forest. Man, it gonna cause

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a tree fall, letting five thousand miles away.

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Speaker 1: Man, nobody seen nobody else. You don't mean no Man.

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I'd luck you call the little story and you got

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directed like that.

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Speaker 2: Win Man over like a dang on the panel, man

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matter Man?

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Speaker 3: All right, Arch, welcome to the Jay Burden Show.

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Speaker 2: How you doing Man, I'm doing fun. Thank you, Thank

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you for having me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to have you on.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: As I was telling you before we went live, I

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had an episode on forty k more generally that just

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last week did quite well, and literally probably three days

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after Kevin and I had that discussion, uh, there was

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a major update to the sort of infiltration of you know,

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left wing politics into that hobby. So if you could, Arch,

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I guess I should be a good podcaster and ask

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you to describe what you do first. But then after that,

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if you want what happened, right, what's the big deal?

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What's everyone talking about?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: I started doing YouTube content to solid ten years ago

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plus now because of the announcement of Total War Warhammer.

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It's always been a huge fan of Warhammer and Total War.

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Does that seem like the perfect opportunity to start talking

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about this stuff. But I very soon became aware of

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the political side of things, because this was, you know,

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the twenty fourteen fifteens, et cetera, when most of us

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began to become aware of the political shift that was

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starting with in entertainment at large. And I decided quite

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soon that this was something that wasn't going to stop.

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It wasn't going to limit its to one thing. It

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was going to try and infiltrate entertainment in general. So

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I started talking about that as well, at significant personal

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cost over the years. But well we're sitting here in

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twenty twenty six with female custodies and I feel pretty justified,

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honestly validated, even.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. I mean, I I was a teenager

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right during the whole gamer Gate thing, and so I

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have a very distinct memory of the sort of before

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and after. I've told this story before, Arch, but I

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figured you'd get a kick out of it. I went

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to university in seventeen and so, you know, right into

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you know, the Burning culture War, and you know, I

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was studying economics. I decided to take game theory, naively,

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assuming that would be game theory, right, And what I'd

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actually done is signed up for a course on the

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critical theory of video games. So I was hot gamer

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Gate at a collegiate level. A funny story, that's a

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large part of the reason I ended up here. You

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go through a course with an obese, actually purple haired

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woman yelling at you about gamer Gate, and you're like, okay, well,

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whoever you hate, I think those are my friends. And obviously,

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you know, that was sort of the canary in the

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coal mine. Many of these trends have been observed in

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other hobbies, you know, similar thing has happened obviously to

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anything that Wizards of the Coast owns. But forty k,

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as we discussed in a previous episode, is structurally resistant,

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you know, within the universe. It is illiberal, right, it

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doesn't conform to certain of our our modern sensibilities. And

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the specific issue is seemingly minor. Right, it's this desire

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to turn factions that are male, right, entirely male, desire

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to diversify them, right, desire to bring women into these

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male spaces, as they would say. And the battles lost

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a while ago, right, there was a. I can't remember

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which one of the horace heresy books I tapped out

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a long time ago, which featured one of these female custodies.

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For those who aren't aware, Giant Royal Protectors, right, Giant Armor,

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the best of the best, right, always been exclusively male,

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and they wrote in to one of these books a

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female character. Funny enough, arch As, I'm sure you're aware,

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she is featured in the book and does bawling her

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eyes out completely ineffectual, which is kind of funny. But

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the big update is now they have little plastic guys. Right,

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they have taken it down to that level, the thing

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that matters, so to speak. So Arch if you could,

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could you describe one why that matters? Right, Why this

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is a significant change for the franchise, And two what's

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the reaction been? Right? Who is celebrating? Who is upset?

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Speaker 1: Well, there's quite a few layers to this.

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Speaker 2: So this is very obviously so a political move into

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games Workshop because the company that owns Warm of forty thousand,

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that is Games Workshop, they have wanted to become a

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woke company for quite some time now, and they have

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met a great deal of resistance both from their fandom

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and the franchise itself, as you mentioned, one forty thousand

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is just not a very liberal friendly franchise. It is

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explicitly inherently left wing. It begins by simply stating that

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progress is dead. There is no progressivism in it, but

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Games Workshop wants it to be, and they've been waging

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an active war against their fans for quite a few

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years now. One of the central parts of that conflict

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was a man named Tom Mendelssohn, who was their community manager.

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He was revealed a few months ago to have celebrated

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the assassination of Charlie Kirk. I broke that story and

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nobody else talked about it in the Warhammer community. Of

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the commentators. Gainst Workshops suspended him and have still not

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elected to fire him because well, they sympathize with his

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point of view. And I stress that to make you

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understand just how progressive the company actually is. They put

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out a whole plan for female custodes, which, as you say,

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is an all female faction, which began with a small

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line in their codex, their rule book, which mentions a

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female custodes, and it's very vague. It's just the pronouns

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that give it away. This meant that a lot of

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people back then were basically coping like, oh, this probably

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isn't official rogue in turn, stuff like that. But this

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was a part of Against Workshop's long term campaign to

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introduce them boiling the frog on it. They later introduced

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the female custodies in an animated short, and now like

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a year or so later used models, which is essentially

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the standard of canonization. When something has a model, it

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is properly officially a part of the Warhammer forty K universe.

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So that's why that was a big deal, because now

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there's no more excuses nobody can trick themselves into thinking

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that this isn't happening anymore. It is the most blatant

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declaration of war in essence.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that it's really what we're seeing

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is a small product for a very specific type of person,

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the kind of person who is both interested in painting

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up in large armies of fictional soldiers and also in

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a dark, illiberal future, right because there are you know,

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a great number of war games, forty K being the biggest,

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of course, But that was a product for a specific

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type of person, produced by a specific type of person.

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It came out of a very unique culture, right, the

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English culture of the seventies and eighties, and that unique

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flavor is what made it popular. But it's the exact

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same mechanism you see in anything else, which is on

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one hand, the tactical invocation of the wider audience. It's

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sort of up for debate if they actually believe this

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or not, because it has yet to materialize. But it's

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idea that if we know jam in representation, we will

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unlock this kind of secret, untapped audience for XYZ product.

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It will become this kind of global brand. And look,

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some of this is entirely that it's business sensibility. This

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has gone from being a small to a very large company. Understandable.

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But also you see these people who are sort of

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derisively referred to as tourists, right, those who are simply

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there because it is current thing, and when it is

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popular but not in accordance with current values, they want

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to pull it into line with everything else. And the

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combination of these two yields a gray, neutral product, a

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product of nowhere for everybody. And you can see this

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in any number of things. Right. I'm not a big

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like warhammer fantasy guy. It was never my bag for

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a number of reasons. But the way that that world,

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that sort of franchise, I guess you could say, was

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very casually disintegrated and replaced with Ages of Sigmar, which

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is vaguely the same thing, right, It's a medieval fantasy ish,

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but it's completely stripped of any cultural really weight to

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it at all. It again becomes another one of these

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mass market products, and I think that that is additionally,

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even a side from the politics, a big reason people

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are unhappy about this because something that was unique, that

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touched a very you know, specific subset, is being massified.

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It turned into kind of gray cultural good.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's also the fact that when Warhammer, both Fantasy

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and forty K were first introduced, this was, you know,

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thirty eight years ago for forty K and even more

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so for Warhammer Fantasy. Fantasy back then was actually quite formulaic.

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You had the Lord of the Rings in essence, it

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was hopeful fantasy. You had tales like Narnia and so on.

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So Warhammer being sent in a very grim universe was

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quite fresh. It's quite the deviation from things now. Most

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of those, all traditional universes have either fallen out of

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popularity or been broken into the attempt to, you know,

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bring in the wider audience. This meant that forty K

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and Warhammer had a great window there, particularly during the

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COVID season, where a lot of people discovered it, and

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a lot of people were kind of like, oh my god,

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it's a war game, grim dark, brutal, something for boys

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and men in an age where that was becoming vanishingly rare,

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like even Star Wars was entering the full swing of

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the Disney era back then, and so it appealed to

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a lot of people, and it grew very, very rapidly,

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to the point where it is now pushing on the

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gates of mainstreameddness and it's about to break through. Like

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I firmly believe that forty K will probably become the

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next Star Wars, the next cultural phenomenon in entertainment. But

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that has also drawn in the vultures. In this case,

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Amazon and also games workshops desire to appeal to the

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wider audience, partially for economic reasons. As you mentioned, though,

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the problem with it is we've seen this happen. We've

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seen Star Trek try it, Star Wars try it, countless

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other entities. The wider audience doesn't exist, that exists the

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casual audience. But the casual audience can never be appealed

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to for long. They will simply go towards whatever is

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currently popular, and they will stay with it for however

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long it is popular. And then once they have managed

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to reduce it to the gray, bored, turgid slop that

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appeals to everyone, they will move on because it appeals

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to no one. And this is one step in that process,

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by taking what was an exclusively male faction that was

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exclusively designed to appeal exclusively to males, and turning it

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into a diverse faction, and well, damn the law in

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the process.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think that the reaction has been very telling.

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All of the usual suspects are out, you know, crowing

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about the you know, the female custodes models. And what's

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interesting is that they're they're casting everything as a cultural victory. Right,

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we beat you, you can leave. Right. The idea is

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it's effectively an invasion. Right, we found your thing, we

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pulled it apart, we ruined it. Now you should leave.

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And yes, you know, the the idea that this is

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some sort of tolerant force, right, the idea that this

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is some sort of battle for inclusion. I mean, that's

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a tactical assumption. Right. They're stepping into that because it

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gives them, you know, some sort of advantage. It's not real.

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They don't actually think that. That's just a cope.

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Speaker 2: Right, it's us and we've known it for a while.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent. So arch this is what we call

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in the interview industry a softball question. Why can't you

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just go somewhere else, to some other grim dark you know?

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I guess you could say intellectual property, like I don't know,

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a Trench Crusade, for example, right, another wargame with grim

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dark aesthetics that's set in Oh, I don't know. Maybe

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the an alternative history passed right? World War One inspired

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with strong Christian imagery. Surely that is a bastion of

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even if not right wing politics, at the very least

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a political wargaming. So what say you to the to

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the Trench Crusade question?

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Speaker 1: I denounced this.

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Speaker 2: Finally, Trench Crusades developers themselves have already come out and

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stated quite publicly that they do not consider themselves to

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be a Christian game. They believe the Christians to be

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just as bad as the demons, and that there is

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no objectively good side in a war between God and Hell,

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so I consider them to be legitimately actually insane people.

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Speaker 3: And for those wondering, right, this is more inside baseball stuff.

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There was a brief exodus of people who saw forty

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k going in this direction and said, you know what,

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this might not be for me anymore. A trench crusade

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which was initially just art. I can't remember the guy's name,

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Mike something like very much talented Mike Francina, who is

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a very talented artist. I'm not going to take that

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away from it. And there was a game to go

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along with it, this sort of you know, if you

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can imagine a sort of like Eldritch World War One theme,

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that's sort of what it was. And so many people

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thought that this is my new place, my new replacement

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for this hobby. And what they found is that the

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invasion was done before they ever showed up, right, the

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same sort of you know, political activists had found their

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way there. And again, right, it's another way in which

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these kind of traditional nerd hobbies have been completely and

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totally subverted, right by these these sort of like political actors.

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So at the same time, obviously there's the direct politics.

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But there have been other people who aren't necessarily politics

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or politically minded per se, who are leaving forty K.

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We're no longer interested. How would you describe those people?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: What are the other objections that aren't necessarily directly political?

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People have towards game workshop or this hobby.

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Speaker 2: So this is where the problem of politics and law

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comes in. So all law must in essence be viewed

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as a form of rhetorical argumentation. You are setting up

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a universe, and when you're setting up that universe, you

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can invent anything you want, anything whatsoever. You can have

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magical space toads, flying starships powered by the tears of

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children if you so desire. It doesn't have to make sense.

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But once you have created that universe, you must maintain

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internal consistency to the best of your ability. Otherwise is

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the argument loses its credibility. You're no longer making sense.

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You're making a shit up. And that's why people are

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leaving forty K. Even if they don't care about the politics.

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They now look at a universe that can apparently change overnight.

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Never before has there been any mention of female custodies

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at any point. There have never been any art of them.

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In fact, the faction has been specifically and explicitly described

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as all male on multiple occasions previously. And when they

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just change that, well, people now understand that the argument

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is no longer solid, it is no longer internally coherent,

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and that turns people off on a basic level. It's

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not even about whether or not there should be custodies

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from a political point of view. At that point, it

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is simply you've changed the thing. I like, why did

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you do that?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Because politics? Okay, well I don't agree with you doing

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that for politics.

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Speaker 3: Well. And then the other part we need to talk about,

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because this is relevant as well, is on one hand,

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the intellectual property right, the fact that this is a

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company which, for at this point, let's be honest, over

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two decades, has been extremely jealous of the things.

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Speaker 4: That they own.

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Speaker 3: In my mind, really, the warning bells were set off

293
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by I don't know what you'd refer this too, but

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the launch of the Primaries right for those who aren't aware,

295
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the poster boys of forty K are the space Breds, right,

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and basically they launched a refresh. We're getting rid of

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all the old stuff, bringing in the new stuff. Models

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are bigger, the design is cleaner, more modern, whatever. That's

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maybe a separate discussion. But what came along with it

300
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was this massive ret con right which featured several things. One, obviously,

301
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you need to buy more stuff. You need to buy

302
00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:09,920
it now, you can't use the old stuff anymore, and

303
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the economics of this certainly need to be addressed. But

304
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also of going back to your previous point, was a

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massive ret con right to how these super soldiers were made,

306
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you know what the plan was all along, But also

307
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,039
there was this great secret plan right all along, right

308
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that these new you know, extra super space marines. Okay,

309
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fair enough, the Lord's stupid. But what with it was

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this idea that technological progress has resumed, right, we are

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no longer stuck in this kind of era of decay.

312
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And it's a very core premise to the setting. So

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you have and even like geez, it's been almost ten years, right,

314
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which is kind of crazy to think. There was a

315
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very conscious decision to discard the lore, to discard the rules,

316
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to discard the thing that people liked, and drew them

317
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to this setting or eight cash grab. And if you

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look at the you know, bringing in the politics as

319
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yet another cash grab. You certainly could. It's the same thing,

320
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the idea that we are sacrificing the product to make

321
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it more economically successful. What do you make of that transition?

322
00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:21,039
Right the launch of primaries, because in my mind as well,

323
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it also was a market move towards the kind of

324
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you know, chasing after the whales, right as well on

325
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,480
the purchasing side. Do you see what I'm getting at

326
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their arch?

327
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the primariest marines, they were probably first and

328
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foremost an economic decision because they wanted to resell the

329
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space marine faction, which was by far their best sellers.

330
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The design also was an early indication that they didn't

331
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quite understand what their setting was anymore. The old space

332
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Marines could best be this described as crusading nights in space,

333
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very bulky, very symbolic looking armor covered in iconography. These

334
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,880
new ones were very rounded, very tactical, very modern esque,

335
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and they lacked a lot of the charm of the

336
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old school of startes. But this was definitely first and

337
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foremost an economic decision to sell people space marines. Again,

338
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as they've continued to sell Space Marines constantly ever since.

339
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They are their best selling faction, so beyond economics an

340
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indication that they were losing contact with their own setting, definitely,

341
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But I think that was the primary motivation for the

342
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Space Marines relaunch rather than the political side of it.

343
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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, one hundred percent. But point is right again.

344
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I think one of the I know, one of the

345
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reasons many people are leaving is that the cost of

346
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,079
engaging in this has gone up dramatic, Right, you can't

347
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,079
keep a model for nearly as long as you used to.

348
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You know, things are being refreshed, maybe a slight diversion there.

349
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Speaker 1: Now.

350
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Speaker 3: What's been really interesting, arch is the people who effectively

351
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,359
have decided that they are going to build their own. Right,

352
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,799
in the past five or six years, maybe a little longer,

353
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,000
we've seen the explosion of consumer grade resin printers, right,

354
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something that I jumped on and have had a lot

355
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,319
of fun doing, and also a sort of secondary market

356
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of people designing files. Right, some of them, let's be honest,

357
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,319
you are ripping off other properties, right, You've got to

358
00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:46,000
squint your eyes and you know exactly what they're going for.

359
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,400
But also you know, making their own, making their own systems,

360
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which are absent of these kind of you know, political overtons.

361
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So I'm curious, Arch, is there anything you see on

362
00:22:57,279 --> 00:22:59,400
that front that you see as sort of a sign

363
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for hope.

364
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Speaker 2: Potentially there are many people trying to work on own

365
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their own alternatives. I do have a system in the

366
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works myself, as you do eventually have to just try

367
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to make your own if you're not happy with the

368
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current product anymore. I don't know how successful it will be,

369
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because at the end of the day, it's very difficult

370
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,599
to make something like this really start taking off, and

371
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,200
there's only so many people who have the resources to

372
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do so. And there have been many alternatives that have

373
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been around for quite some time that have never managed

374
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:44,440
to really get going either. It's one of those problems

375
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:46,960
where you don't want to give up on the thing

376
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:50,240
you like. Anyone has been a fun of a style

377
00:23:50,279 --> 00:23:53,000
of Star Wars has known that feeling for quite some time,

378
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:58,440
even as you see it on its deathbed, and like

379
00:23:58,519 --> 00:24:00,759
forty K two has the problems you mentioned with the

380
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:03,880
economy of it that gw has just been increasing their

381
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,359
prices add infinitum to the point where their specialty paint

382
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,759
now costs ten times that of their competition and sell

383
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:18,680
simply because of brand and market recognition. It's I suppose

384
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,920
one of the problems with our current day internet based

385
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,559
system as well, that once you have a thing become big,

386
00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:29,960
it usually becomes the dominant force in its own arena,

387
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,839
rather than back in the day when we had far

388
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,519
more competitors to all of this. Wow, it's difficult to

389
00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:40,400
say if we'll see anything rise up to replace it,

390
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:44,720
but eventually, because we were kind of in the early

391
00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:48,079
stages of a replacement period right now, right where we're

392
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,559
seeing many of the primary entertainment things like Star Wars

393
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,599
are beginning to fall off. A lot of The Rings

394
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,960
was lauded for the longest time due to the excellent trilogy,

395
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,359
and then came to The Rings of Power, which is

396
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,640
severely damaged its reputation. Game of throneses was lauded until

397
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,599
his final season, and so on. So we're kind of

398
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,279
seeing the end of many of these cultural giants right now,

399
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,759
and we're not yet sure what will emerge now, like

400
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,240
what comes next.

401
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of an interesting thing writ large that

402
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,680
as the Boomer generation is beginning to pass, so are

403
00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:36,039
many of the sort of the cultural phenomenon that they created.

404
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,759
And obviously, you know, Tolkien was not a baby boomer

405
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,480
not my point at all, but the kind of great

406
00:25:42,519 --> 00:25:46,640
cultural properties of the twentieth century, Marvel, Star Wars, any

407
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,400
one of these sort of got taken through this, you know,

408
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,839
slow build up, meteoric rise, and then very quickly burnt

409
00:25:56,839 --> 00:26:01,839
out at the point which there's very little left. And

410
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,400
I think it's interesting to see, and I know that

411
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,920
you've done a few videos on this, the sort of

412
00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:12,640
later attempted editions. So I'm sort of fascinated by Avatar

413
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:16,559
for a number of reasons, James Cameron, not the Cartoon

414
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:21,200
Network show. And perhaps the reason I'm the most interested

415
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,319
in it is that it is the message of that

416
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:30,480
movie is the most insane boomer slot possible, but it

417
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:33,319
is sort of out of date, right, So the central

418
00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:38,440
conceit of Avatar is very much the sort of male

419
00:26:39,079 --> 00:26:43,279
baby boomer fantasy, right of finding people who were connected

420
00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:45,559
to the earth, who are you know, from a different culture,

421
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,839
you know, being placed in charge of them, made a warlord,

422
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,480
and getting you know, a really hot alien babe. This

423
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:54,920
is the plot of you know, obviously Dances with Wolves,

424
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,279
any number of you know, similar Western movies. I mean, honestly,

425
00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:02,240
the Last Samurai is very similar as well. Right, there's

426
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,200
this whole genre of film, but Avatar is that same story,

427
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,160
just remade much past its cell by day. And obviously

428
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,920
the politics of Avatar are completely and totally insane on

429
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,839
multiple different levels. But it is sort of this interesting

430
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,799
instance of both being the property that never was right,

431
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:23,599
the movie that sold a billion tickets but no one

432
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,240
actually talks about or remembers particularly. But you see that

433
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:30,880
same trend, you see that same narrative, that same thing

434
00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:35,720
once the sort of roots that underpinned have begun to rot,

435
00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:38,440
you know, And I think that you're entirely right to

436
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,680
talk about this era of replacement because so many of

437
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,279
these large legacy properties that have taken up so much

438
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:48,640
of everyone's time and kind of psychic energy are running

439
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,039
out or petering out and sort of converging into kind

440
00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:55,680
of gray ubisoft slop. It's an interesting thing.

441
00:27:55,559 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: That it is, because you say it too.

442
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: The story of Avatar is basically the story of John Carter,

443
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,319
Warlord from of Mars, which was published in nineteen thirteen. Like,

444
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,359
this is an over one hundred years old story, and

445
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,680
we can go back further beyond that. You've got to

446
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,640
bear in mind that things like Troy were basically their

447
00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:24,359
versions of Issachais going to strange and distant lands or Hercules,

448
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,599
right and finding strange alien babes in these areas too,

449
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:32,359
Like this is a tales all this time, and Avatar

450
00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:34,599
is fascinating again because.

451
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: Or you Norwegians just made a culture out of that, right,

452
00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:42,519
going to strange lands and finding strange women.

453
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: But sorry, it's a romantic pursuit that is vaguely recognizable,

454
00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:53,000
but Avatar, Avatar doesn't manage to deliver it because the

455
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,799
problem is that the Navy aren't the good guys. The

456
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,519
Navies are obviously the slaves of this parasitic fungus entity

457
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,599
that is obviously evil. So I firmly believe that is

458
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,519
the reason why it has failed to have the cultural impact,

459
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:12,359
because when people go to watch the movie, even if

460
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,200
they are not entirely aware of it, not quite cognizant,

461
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,799
they understand that the bad guys are winning, and that

462
00:29:20,839 --> 00:29:22,400
makes them disconnect from it.

463
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,839
Speaker 3: Well, and there's a fascinating element of racial politics to

464
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,759
these where of course, right, this is a movie that's

465
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:36,400
sort of hamfictedly about colonialization. Right, you have the the

466
00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:41,680
evil you know, uh, technologically advanced imperial faction, uh, you know,

467
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:47,480
harassing these noble savages, right, a unified you know, a

468
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,559
race of people who have never died in war only

469
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,880
due to old age, at which point they are, you know,

470
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,519
their body is subsumed, right in this sort of beautiful

471
00:29:55,839 --> 00:30:01,359
circle of life. But and I'll be one hundred percent honest,

472
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,960
I haven't seen the first one since it came out, right,

473
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,200
So I'm not gonna pretend to be a scholar. Actually,

474
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,920
now that I think about it, I've seen all of

475
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,079
these movies when they came out and never you know

476
00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:15,200
again since. But point is, there's this really interesting dynamic

477
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,440
that comes up in the third one where there's sort

478
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,000
of this debate raging about purity, right, the genetic purity

479
00:30:24,079 --> 00:30:27,039
of the nov because of course you have you know,

480
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,720
Jake I always want to say it, Jake Soley, because

481
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,039
that's how they say it in the films. But Jake Sully,

482
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:35,319
you know who has been He has a man's soul

483
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,279
transported into a you know, a nave body, right he is,

484
00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:41,359
you know, which is again the idea of having a

485
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,839
soul and a body disconnected to sort of an interesting

486
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,599
one orright, you know, a spirit in in kind of

487
00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:49,200
current politics, right if we look at gender or something else.

488
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,359
But nonetheless you have this debate between him and his wife,

489
00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:56,160
and you know, they're constantly arguing back and forth about,

490
00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:59,680
you know, the need to keep their planet pure. And

491
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:02,319
a large part of the conflict of the second movie

492
00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:04,920
is that there is a you know, a kid who

493
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,720
through bs earth magic, it's not particularly important, has gained

494
00:31:09,759 --> 00:31:12,759
the ability to breathe the toxic air. And of course

495
00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:16,039
everyone's all worried because oh no, now the invaders can

496
00:31:16,079 --> 00:31:18,880
live here, right if they discover his secret. And so

497
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,799
it's quite funny because again this is a deeply progressive

498
00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:26,640
movie intentionally, but the unintentional message, of course is we

499
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:30,160
can't allow the invaders here because once they get a foothold,

500
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,400
they'll take over. And so that's this bizarre kind of

501
00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:37,000
you know, mixed up you know, racial politics if you will,

502
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,519
where it could very easily be recast as you know,

503
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,079
something that you know, a certain mid century German would

504
00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:45,119
have made. But if you see what I'm going to

505
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,400
get there, they almost can't keep their own you know

506
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:48,200
logic straight.

507
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: Well, there's very much so a James Cameron problem, because

508
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:57,799
James Cameron, he has a feeling of what he wants

509
00:31:57,839 --> 00:32:03,319
to get across, but he doesn't quite understand the implications

510
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,799
of what he's trying trying to create. Like even the

511
00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:10,720
third movie was basically him realizing that, oh God, I

512
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:14,279
have made the humans look way too good. I'm going

513
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:17,400
to need to just up the bad on every level

514
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,160
to try and make you not sympathize with them. And

515
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:25,440
again he keeps overseeing these obvious things, like the entire

516
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,640
idea of Awa the goddess. We have now had it

517
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,680
basically confirmed in the third movie that yeah, no, she

518
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:35,079
is a fungus. She lives within people. She uses their

519
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,880
memories as a way to prey upon their psyche. Oh

520
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,319
you want to see your loved once again, Well you're

521
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:43,279
going to have to worship me then, because I.

522
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:43,799
Speaker 1: Can do that.

523
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: And even that, it's I've seen progressives as well described

524
00:32:48,079 --> 00:32:51,200
this as an after life, and no, this is an

525
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,359
alien entity showing you a snapshot of the person the

526
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,680
last time they connected to a war as a form

527
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,480
of emotional black mail in essence, I mean, by any

528
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,039
other in any other franchise, this would be a monstrous,

529
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:14,400
nightmarish entity. Yet because it's presented as as realistic in

530
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:19,400
a way you have progressives flocking to it. It's kind

531
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:24,799
of become this form of how did I put in

532
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:31,240
like a secular god to them where they worship realism

533
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,799
almost it's.

534
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: A strange thing.

535
00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 2: I think that's the only part where I've seen it

536
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,440
actually have any cultural impact is amongst the progressive class,

537
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:45,359
and it is usually by using very religious language combined

538
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,160
with this worship of the rational.

539
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,359
Speaker 3: And there's a so, look, this is not a good film.

540
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,640
You should not watch it, listener. It's a large to

541
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,400
total waste of time. If you've seen the second movie,

542
00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:04,720
watch it again. That's the third one. But there's sort

543
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:10,079
of this fascinating, fascinating instance at the very end where

544
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,360
the arch villain whose name I cannot remember, another you know,

545
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,199
human soul transported into a blue body, which, by the way,

546
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,280
arch as one of the only other people to see

547
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,800
this movie as far as I remember. Their explanation as

548
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,480
to why he is back is a single line which

549
00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:31,679
basically just says he was resurrected. Am I am I

550
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,559
misremembering that? Or is there some greater explanation for why

551
00:34:34,599 --> 00:34:36,039
this dead character is back now?

552
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: Oh quotach?

553
00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:43,119
Speaker 2: He was basically brought back by James Cameron straight up. Yes,

554
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,320
he became one of the most popular characters in the

555
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,639
first movie. And this also because the actor is excellent, Like,

556
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:52,239
he's a fantastic act.

557
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,039
Speaker 3: He's the only compelling character in the entire film.

558
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,679
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's why James Cameron brought him back, because

559
00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:03,679
there was okay, well, I can't not. And that's also

560
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,760
kind of, you know, one of the things that have

561
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,480
damaged the overall story because Avatar really only had one

562
00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:13,199
movie in it, and every movie since the first one

563
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,280
has basically just been a retelling of the first movie

564
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,239
in slightly different circumstances, to the point where now it's

565
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,480
almost as much of a tale between Qurridge and Jake

566
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:27,920
Sully as anything else, because again James Cameron doesn't quite

567
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,039
know what he's doing with this. But no, he was

568
00:35:31,079 --> 00:35:33,039
just brought back and it's like, oh, yeah, we decided

569
00:35:33,039 --> 00:35:36,239
to back up your mind in a navvy body because

570
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,480
you know, fuck it, why not?

571
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 3: And that's basically the reasoning for most things.

572
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: Oh, that is the entire reasoning.

573
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,679
Speaker 2: Like he even Quorish himself just kind of shrugs like, okay,

574
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,960
well fine, I guess.

575
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 3: One of the other relevant parts about this and I

576
00:35:56,079 --> 00:36:01,000
maybe too much personal detail, arch, but going to see

577
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,000
the Avatar films as part of a noble tradition known

578
00:36:04,039 --> 00:36:06,800
as mall beers. There is a theater in the mall.

579
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,320
There's a bar in the mall, and so you know,

580
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,760
you combine the two and you get smashed and go

581
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,440
see a movie.

582
00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: Right.

583
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,199
Speaker 3: It's not high art all, grant you, but it's something

584
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,480
to do. And you know, so I'm going to see

585
00:36:18,519 --> 00:36:21,280
this with the kind of guys who are interested in that, right,

586
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,679
most of them aren't necessarily interested in cultural analysis per se.

587
00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:30,039
They're normal guys, right. And you know, halfway through this movie,

588
00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:31,800
I'm sitting next to a guy and he leans over

589
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,960
to me and he just whispers in my ear, James

590
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:39,480
Cameron really hates people. Which it's entirely true, right, this

591
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,599
this is a profoundly anti human movie. And Korich again,

592
00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:47,480
who is this villain? He declares that his loyalty is

593
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:51,159
to the human race. I'm sure you're familiar with the

594
00:36:51,159 --> 00:36:54,360
heat map meme arge, right, which is comparing you know,

595
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,639
left wing and right wing people on their assigned amount

596
00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:00,880
of loyalty. Right, You're given ten points, will say to

597
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,000
assign to different groups. Generally speaking, conservatives assign that to

598
00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:09,559
their family first, in ever decreasing amounts going outwards, whereas

599
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:12,320
people who self identify as progressives are the exact opposite.

600
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,480
They feel the most loyalty to the universe at large,

601
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:19,440
the least to the people around them. Right. And so,

602
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,440
what's again kind of interesting about the mixed up politics

603
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,159
of this movie is Korich is the villain, right, He

604
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,239
certainly played sympathetically, but he is a bad guy. Right,

605
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,079
We're supposed to be rooting against him. But right before

606
00:37:33,079 --> 00:37:35,760
he dies for the third time in the third movie,

607
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,679
he basically says like, no, I did this all for humanity.

608
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,079
Everything I did was in service of the survival of

609
00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:45,199
the species. And it's profoundly amusing to me that this

610
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,760
is basically a liberal movie about the the need to

611
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:54,000
prioritize your tribe quite literally over the human race. I

612
00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:55,960
just think that that's a very funny message for a

613
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,199
progressive to put forth.

614
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, because again it's because of their own worship. Like,

615
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:05,400
the progressives are as deeply religious as any other group,

616
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,679
it's just that their God is named something else. That

617
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,400
God is the rational god and for them therefore are

618
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,840
awa an Avatar is rational good. The planet of Pandora

619
00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:21,320
is beautiful, it's clean, and everybody is happy there. Nobby

620
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,000
has a nine to five job, and their god is

621
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:28,280
a real god, and therefore they're good. Now again, if

622
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,639
we start to actually analyze what's going on there, you

623
00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:33,519
can very clearly see that the now we are not.

624
00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: Good, and that a war is not good either.

625
00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: But it's I really need to like look into this

626
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:44,679
war when it comes to like the rear reaction to

627
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,199
it from a progressive point of view, because I do

628
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,719
think there's definitely just a natural outgroup preference there which

629
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,920
allows them to overlook the other logical inconsistencies. Right, we

630
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,280
don't like humans, therefore we automatically root for the opposition.

631
00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:04,079
But there is a lot of contradictions because it does

632
00:39:04,159 --> 00:39:07,760
absolutely boil down to well, you know, I am on

633
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,920
this side of the fence now, so I will do

634
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,599
anything I can to protect this side of the fence

635
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,800
over yours at any cost. And the way they'll probably

636
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:22,199
square this is by simply just bioterror bombing Earth with

637
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,280
AOA spores, and then we'll all become monkeys living the

638
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:25,840
Stone Age.

639
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: Instead.

640
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,599
Speaker 3: You're you're you're entirely right. I'm sort of fascinated arch

641
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:38,960
by these poorly produced pieces of political progressive propaganda. That

642
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:43,039
alliteration is not intentional, but we'll go with it. Another

643
00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:47,639
one is the second Dune film, which got panned by

644
00:39:47,679 --> 00:39:52,119
a lot of our guys, and I understand why, But

645
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:54,719
in a way, I actually thought that having you know,

646
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,159
Chini be this kind of you know, scowling character, you know,

647
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,199
doubting you know, poll's ability to sort of you know,

648
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,760
unite the stars in this kind of global giha or

649
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,039
this you know, galactic chihat, I thought that it was

650
00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:11,480
actually an oddly poignant thing, right where effectively, you know,

651
00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:14,400
this image of you know that this woman looking over

652
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,119
her shoulder scowling because he didn't pick me. He wanted

653
00:40:18,159 --> 00:40:21,280
to go, you know, change the entire you know, destiny

654
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,639
of the human rights. I thought that was an oddly

655
00:40:23,679 --> 00:40:26,280
poignant message. And the movie, of course, is trying to

656
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,880
tell you that you know, she's right, that he really

657
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,840
should stay at home, that you know, this destiny isn't real,

658
00:40:32,519 --> 00:40:36,239
that he's you know, he's given into toxic masculinity. But

659
00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:41,280
they're almost unable to present that message in a compelling

660
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,000
way and end up sort of communicating the exact opposite.

661
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,519
So these, you know, not particularly good progressive science fiction

662
00:40:49,639 --> 00:40:51,519
movies are kind of a fascination of mine, if you

663
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:52,440
see what I'm getting at.

664
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:56,199
Speaker 2: Yes, And a lot of this has to do is

665
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:01,039
the inability to understand it as well. That there's a

666
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:07,159
fascinating picture from from one of the Dune premieers. I

667
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:10,480
think that shows the entire cast. I'll put in a

668
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:13,519
little private chat here so you can see it, And

669
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:18,119
it's the most metrosexual bunch of people you've ever seen.

670
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,559
And when you understand that, when you understand this is

671
00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:28,400
a cast made by very metrosexual people, by very metrosexual producers, developers,

672
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,599
written in a very modern fashion, they obviously can't understand

673
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,440
the destiny of Paul the Tradees. They can't understand this

674
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:40,719
is a man who will conquer the galaxy through force,

675
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,559
who will eventually be haunted by the force he was

676
00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:48,880
forced to unleash in largely the defense of himself and

677
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,719
his family as well. They can't understand that very idea

678
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,880
of being willing to do these things, even knowing they

679
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,039
are going to result in horrible consequences, in order to

680
00:42:01,079 --> 00:42:04,719
defend yourself and your own as as you say it,

681
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,599
Shanni is very much so the counterpoint of well, shouldn't

682
00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:10,679
you just roll over and die, shouldn't you just let

683
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,320
the evil empire win and your family be eradicated if

684
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:19,199
you're so horrified by your own actions? And no, because

685
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,079
there there is actually a morality in looking out for

686
00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:26,320
your own people. That is not moral. In fact, it

687
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,199
is a very definition of morality. These are mine, I

688
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,599
will defend them to the best of my abilities.

689
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:40,639
Speaker 3: Well, and additionally, right, there's the level of her saying no,

690
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,639
stay with me, right, you know, be a prince here,

691
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,239
don't fulfill your destiny. And it sort of it honestly

692
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,800
adds a sort of beautiful, beautiful element to the story.

693
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,840
Right because of course, during the duel with fate Rautha,

694
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,639
you know, paul Is is wounded, but because he is

695
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,559
human and he can master his emotions, he can master

696
00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:04,519
his pain, he's able to push through it, win the duel,

697
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:09,960
and you know him marry into the imperial household. But

698
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,800
what's interesting about that is obviously there is the death right,

699
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,079
the death of Paul you know, the birth of Madep

700
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,159
the man who is a god. But also in that right,

701
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,320
he is saying, you know, I am giving up the

702
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,639
happiness of being a normal man right be married to

703
00:43:26,679 --> 00:43:29,000
the woman I love. I am taking this sort of

704
00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:32,519
loveless imperial marriage. And that's another level as well. That's

705
00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:35,800
sort of interesting because he is, you know, killing the

706
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,960
man to sort of become a legend, right to become

707
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,320
a demigod almost, and with that, you know, there is

708
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,519
glory with it. Right, he will be the most powerful

709
00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:46,400
man in the history of the human species. But also

710
00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:49,519
right he is, he is giving something up there. There's

711
00:43:49,559 --> 00:43:52,000
a sacrifice there, and I think that that's a very

712
00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:55,840
interesting element to the film that again they are unable

713
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,719
to recognize because in the progressive vision, power and a

714
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,159
press are one and the same thing. Of course stated

715
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,840
not revealed. They're more than happy to be in power,

716
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,559
they just can't recognize it. But I think that that's

717
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:11,440
another interesting element as well, where they simp they cannot

718
00:44:11,519 --> 00:44:14,199
understand the fact that there is a sort of tragedy

719
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,239
to that right, that you must sacrifice your personal happiness

720
00:44:18,559 --> 00:44:23,079
for something greater. It's kind of great destiny. And it's

721
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:25,360
again it's a concept that would be very basic to

722
00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:28,840
pre moderns, right to anyone really before the nineteen forties

723
00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:31,800
John Carter, you know any number of these even you know,

724
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,639
kind of pop cultural or you know, we could say,

725
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,760
you know, a pulp right would recognize this and show

726
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,599
similar themes. But the modern progressive is simply unable to

727
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:45,000
recognize that. And again, right, this is something that you

728
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:48,519
see in forty k as well. It's funny if if

729
00:44:48,559 --> 00:44:51,639
you go on you know, Reddit or something like that,

730
00:44:51,639 --> 00:44:53,880
which I don't recommend, it's it's poisonous to your brain,

731
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,360
but you can find very funny interactions. So owl caat

732
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,719
right did a CRPG in the Warhammer universe that you know,

733
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,840
I quite enjoyed, but the coverage of it was quite interesting,

734
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,800
right because you see, you know, people saying, oh, is

735
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:09,920
this a fascist game?

736
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: Like?

737
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:14,039
Speaker 3: Why is their consequences for freeing heretics? Why are there

738
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:17,840
consequences for not you know, blowing up entire planets because

739
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,599
of corruption? Is this game fascist? And again there's no

740
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:24,440
way to recognize that. You know, in the Warhammer universe

741
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,400
or and Doing or anything else, there are these hard

742
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,639
limitations placed, right, There are tough choices that require sacrifice

743
00:45:32,679 --> 00:45:35,920
sometimes you know, not willing sacrifice even and I think

744
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,800
that's sort of an interesting element to watch them, you know,

745
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,960
grapple with something they can't understand and sort of mess

746
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:42,840
it up in the process.

747
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: Yes, and this of course holds the thing comes also

748
00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:52,159
back to the end goal of progressivism is to reduce

749
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,360
Western society, is to get rid of the fundamental pillars

750
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,000
that uphold it, and one of those is absolutely the

751
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,840
idea of self sac that there are going to be

752
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,599
things that are greater than yourself, and you should, to

753
00:46:05,639 --> 00:46:09,000
be a moral being take actions to preserve those things,

754
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:14,559
even at a personal cost. And the progressives kind of

755
00:46:14,599 --> 00:46:19,639
have never accepted the idea of the personal cost. They

756
00:46:19,679 --> 00:46:25,159
are fundamentally a very selfish political movement that pretends to

757
00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:28,480
not be. It's one of the interesting things that whenever

758
00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:32,039
you see any progressivist group argue for something, it is

759
00:46:32,119 --> 00:46:35,719
always going to be in their own favor in some way.

760
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,480
The Great War between the proper progressives and the radical

761
00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:44,599
feminists was very interesting in this regard because the radical feminists,

762
00:46:44,599 --> 00:46:47,880
of course, simply wanted things that benefited them. They wanted

763
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,400
greater power for themselves, greater privileges for themselves, and that

764
00:46:53,559 --> 00:46:57,320
of course ran into a big conflict with the progressives,

765
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,719
who didn't want more powers for feminists, for women. They

766
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,639
wanted to define what a woman was. They wanted a

767
00:47:03,679 --> 00:47:05,880
man to be able to be a woman because that

768
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,960
would grant them more power, and the radical feminists didn't

769
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:14,000
have any good arguments against it other than to continue

770
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,320
to be radical feminists. And that didn't work because the

771
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,000
only reason why that worked was because they were arguing

772
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,079
against men who have also been through Western society well

773
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,119
programmed into being like, no, no, no, you've got to take

774
00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:29,960
care of the women. They're a little bit brain damaged,

775
00:47:30,039 --> 00:47:31,760
we all know, but you gotta agree with them even

776
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,639
when they say crazy shit, And that, of course didn't

777
00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:39,719
work on the progressives. So they have an interesting thing

778
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,159
where they don't seem to understand negative consequences, Like they

779
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:48,199
live in this weird kind of world of duality where

780
00:47:48,199 --> 00:47:51,320
at the one time they are always the victim. It's

781
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,119
always terrible, they're always undergoing great hardships, but they seem

782
00:47:55,159 --> 00:48:03,280
to never actually be able to expect those hardships to occur, oh.

783
00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:06,519
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. It's very much this kind of performative

784
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:10,079
theater where you know, the rebels are always the good guys,

785
00:48:10,119 --> 00:48:12,760
but ultimately, you know, the Nazis have to do their

786
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,079
part and lose. Like honestly, it's sort of why Star

787
00:48:17,079 --> 00:48:19,719
Wars is sort of fascinating because it's the archetypal version

788
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,719
of this story. I mean, honestly, if we're talking about

789
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,079
the great, you know, the great kind of you know,

790
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,280
turnover in culture, I think a large part of it is,

791
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,000
honestly the mythology of World War Two, not that it

792
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:36,800
didn't occur, right, but that as the defining moment for

793
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,719
our culture, you know, that as the story which must

794
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,039
be eternally retold. Obviously Star Wars dude, it's just it's

795
00:48:44,039 --> 00:48:45,800
World War two in space, right. You don't have to

796
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,559
be a genius to figure this out. But that kind

797
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:51,440
of core story, the idea of you know, the plucky

798
00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:57,800
resistance if you will, built into that is ultimately a lie. Sorry,

799
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,159
but America wasn't the underdog and world or too, you know,

800
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,280
like you were a continent size superpower and you bolt

801
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,639
us to the Soviet Union and you know it, It's

802
00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:11,000
not exactly like that was the you know, the plucky

803
00:49:11,079 --> 00:49:15,920
underdog against you know, the empire from Star Wars. So

804
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,239
I think that's that's definitely part of it. Not looking

805
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,679
to get into a historical digression there. But I think

806
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:28,679
another part of that right is an inability to have

807
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,320
true evil, right to have an objective you know, good

808
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,079
and ill, because you know you have shades of it,

809
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,719
right obviously, you know the Nazis. That's a reason that

810
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,760
slur is used. But I think that you know, really

811
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,920
there is this kind of baked in idea that you know,

812
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:50,039
the outsider, the downcast, that's never evil, right, it is

813
00:49:50,039 --> 00:49:53,800
simply misunderstood. It is simply something that can be normalized

814
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:58,519
and brought into the fold, and that's ultimately good. And

815
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:00,679
I think that when we're talking about that kind of

816
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,320
you know, particularism of sacrifice, right, it's a sacrifice for who.

817
00:50:05,039 --> 00:50:08,760
You know, when when Beowulf, you know, tears Grendel's arm off, right,

818
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,039
he is doing that to protect definite people and he

819
00:50:12,119 --> 00:50:14,760
is ultimately killed in battle with the dragon, it is

820
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,280
he is a king protecting his people. And I think

821
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,880
that that's an element as well, right, that the lines

822
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,440
become very blurred and there's an unwillingness to accept, you know,

823
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,400
a world, whether ours are a fictional one, where there

824
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:34,800
is an absolute, irredeemable evil that cannot be normalized, that

825
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,480
cannot be brought into the fold that is not misunderstood.

826
00:50:37,599 --> 00:50:40,639
It is simply you know, wrong and evil. And so

827
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:45,159
even in like the modern Wolfenstein games, right, which are

828
00:50:45,159 --> 00:50:48,920
perhaps the most egregious versions of that, you know, twentieth

829
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,360
century myth. You know, every one of these German soldiers is, oh, well,

830
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,559
you know, he's a he's a sexual degenerate, or oh

831
00:50:55,639 --> 00:50:58,719
there's some other reason he's doing that, and he is,

832
00:50:59,039 --> 00:51:02,280
you know, fundamentally, he cannot even simply be evil. He

833
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,920
must be this sort of twisted, misunderstood thing. And I

834
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,760
wonder if that's an element as well.

835
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 2: Arge perhaps like we've changed our ideas of evil too,

836
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,760
in this kind of interesting way, where we had a

837
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,960
fairly simplistic evil and from the Lord of the Rings perspective,

838
00:51:25,079 --> 00:51:28,480
like sour on darkness, all of this stuff. This, of course,

839
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,679
also was one of the earliest versions of the Second

840
00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:34,559
World War as our modern day mythology. But the Nazis

841
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:39,679
have taken up the position of the irredeemable evil side,

842
00:51:40,519 --> 00:51:44,599
and it lacks a certain how do I put it,

843
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:53,760
not finesse necessarily, but depth of understanding. I guess because

844
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,840
on the one hand, I kind of sympathize with the

845
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,159
idea of the misunderstood villain, because there's a lot of

846
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:02,440
interesting things you can do with that. Magneto used to

847
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,840
be one of my favorite villains from the old, you know,

848
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,360
comic book days, because he was a victim of the

849
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,880
Nazi purchase who then became a mutant and started basically

850
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:19,880
becoming the Nazis. And his journey of discovering this is

851
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,960
quite fascinating, and the way that he rationalizes his own

852
00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:29,960
crimes without understanding the parallels between them and the Nazis.

853
00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:33,920
But there's also this kind of intersects with the idea

854
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,119
that the enemy must be both infinitely powerful and malicious

855
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:41,199
and infinitely retarded at the same way. In old law

856
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,920
of propaganda, which is where you arrived in kind of

857
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,599
around that the Avatar thing, where the humans are evil,

858
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,639
they do random evil shit for absolutely no gardamn reason,

859
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:56,679
and at the same time they're also incompetent. You have

860
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,480
humans here fighting an underwater alien species with our underwater

861
00:53:00,519 --> 00:53:03,719
alien mounts that refuse to use a simple sona to

862
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,880
wipe them out in a single goddamn ping, but simultaneously

863
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,320
they're going to kill their ancestors. These whale creatures practically

864
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,960
just for shits and giggles to take like a single

865
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:19,039
vial of magical, obscure liquid nonsense out of them and

866
00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:21,119
dump their carcasses back into the water.

867
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: I feel like we.

868
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 2: Have almost managed to lose track of how to conceptualize

869
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:35,800
of an antagonist in many ways, like beyond just the

870
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:43,239
purely evil or or the progressive version of evil. That's

871
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:44,519
something I need to think about more.

872
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of an interesting it's sort of an

873
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:53,079
interesting question. Right. There's a great article and I can't

874
00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:56,840
remember exactly what it's called, by Dave Green, the Distributist,

875
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:02,840
about Harry Potter. Right, it's basically asking the question of, like, well,

876
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,639
you know what happens to House Slytherin afterwards? Right, what

877
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,960
do you do when this evil faction has been bested?

878
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,079
And you know, he's talking about kind of a like

879
00:54:16,119 --> 00:54:20,039
what does the progressive do with a vanquished evil? Right now,

880
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:22,039
we can look to you know the history of the

881
00:54:22,039 --> 00:54:25,280
American South or you know, continental Europe and say, well,

882
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,880
they will simply socially engineer them out of existence, right,

883
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,000
they will attempt to sort of reform them in a

884
00:54:32,079 --> 00:54:35,800
very kind of Quaker way. But that's sort of an

885
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:41,079
interesting question. Again because part of that, you know, that

886
00:54:41,159 --> 00:54:43,960
kind of founding myth, right in the same way that

887
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,199
like Romulus and Remus or the Trojan War would have

888
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,519
been for previous empires, for US is is you know,

889
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:52,320
World War Two, and so you know, in the kind

890
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,519
of retellings of this, it's like, well, you you blow

891
00:54:54,599 --> 00:54:57,159
up the Death Star and then it just goes away, right,

892
00:54:57,159 --> 00:55:00,280
It's just done. It's crumbled, and you know, even in

893
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,159
the sequels you can see that they're not entirely sure

894
00:55:03,159 --> 00:55:05,880
what that looks like. Where it's you know, fifty years

895
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,280
on and well, the rebellions now the resistance, and I

896
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,800
guess they're kind of in charge. But also you know,

897
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:14,840
the is that the first Order I can't remember what

898
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,679
they rebranded it. To the point is they're still stormtroopers, right,

899
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,159
There's no way to conceptualize what winning looks like. And

900
00:55:21,199 --> 00:55:22,920
I think a big part of that is that idea

901
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:25,800
around power, which is the idea that you know, power

902
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,440
is fundamentally illegitimate, that if you were in charge, there's

903
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,519
something wrong with you and you ought to be resisted.

904
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,199
And so that question of what does a victory look like,

905
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,039
what does beating the big bad It's sort of a

906
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:38,800
gray area, right one where there's there's nothing to find.

907
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,519
Speaker 2: Yes, there's also just the reductivest part of it, because

908
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,760
one of the keys of progressivism is that it doesn't

909
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,960
want to be happy. It wants problems. Problem brings power

910
00:55:51,079 --> 00:55:54,119
to it. It doesn't want to find a solution because

911
00:55:54,119 --> 00:55:56,119
if it finds a solution, you can no longer use

912
00:55:56,159 --> 00:56:02,320
graevance politics against everybody else. It's fundamentally anti Western society,

913
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,639
and this can manifest itself in many ways. Like a

914
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,360
favorite favorite quote of mine is the idea of George R. R.

915
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:15,360
Martin quote, But Tolkien doesn't ask the question what was

916
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,079
Adragon's tax policy? And the reason why that is so

917
00:56:19,159 --> 00:56:21,320
amusing to me is because, on the one hand, I

918
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,840
actually like the idea of a fantasy setting where you

919
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,840
delve into that, Okay, what does Gondor look like after

920
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,199
defeating Mordor? What happens to the Orc? And the answer

921
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,199
is probably just simple genocide. But it's also one of

922
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,960
those ultimately reductivist tastes where I actually don't give a

923
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,719
shit about what Adragon's tax policy is. I give a

924
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,159
shit that he is the king that was chosen, He

925
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,480
is the king that was promised, He returned, and he

926
00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:50,960
beat the Big bad and the story is over. That's

927
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,159
where Star Wars should have ended. Now the Imperium was destroyed.

928
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,880
There you go, You're done, You're finished. To then have

929
00:56:58,039 --> 00:57:02,639
them transition into the Resists whilst being the masters of

930
00:57:02,679 --> 00:57:05,639
the Galaxy to the point where you have to have

931
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,760
the best scrawling introtext in the history of cinema going

932
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:17,199
somehow Palpaty in returned. You don't have a plot anymore

933
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,519
at that point. And I don't know if it's a

934
00:57:19,599 --> 00:57:23,199
lack of imagination to not understand where you could possibly

935
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:26,719
go with this, or simply an inability to understand that

936
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,639
sometimes you have to have a goal in mind, and

937
00:57:31,679 --> 00:57:33,519
I don't think the progressives do. I don't think the

938
00:57:33,559 --> 00:57:37,440
progressives have an idea of the ideal society, and I

939
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,519
don't think they're working towards it. They just have these

940
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:46,760
loose promises, these thoughts in their minds, which, amusingly they

941
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,039
were a part of tearing down I mean, you can

942
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:53,000
look at the acceptance rate of things like gay marriage

943
00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:57,480
or transgender people today and they've all nose dived after

944
00:57:57,559 --> 00:58:02,760
progressivism became more popular. Estually, the progressive victory would have

945
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,760
been to shut up in the nineties and just let

946
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,679
everything proceed as it was.

947
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,679
Speaker 3: Well, Arch, I'll have you know that for many of

948
00:58:13,679 --> 00:58:20,159
our progressives, your society with roughly the demographics of Mogadishu,

949
00:58:20,599 --> 00:58:24,519
I believe that is the ideal society. Obviously, I'm not

950
00:58:24,559 --> 00:58:26,440
going to ask you to, you know, to weigh in

951
00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:28,559
on if that is some sort of heaven on earth.

952
00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:32,559
But yeah, you're entirely right. I mean, I think another

953
00:58:32,599 --> 00:58:36,000
part of this, to be brutally honest, is that, you know,

954
00:58:36,039 --> 00:58:39,280
for many of these cultural figures, you have this huge

955
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,559
talent gap where you have you know, these baby boomers

956
00:58:43,639 --> 00:58:46,639
right who have held onto their positions of powers. Actor directors,

957
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,880
you know, James Cameron is a great example, and the

958
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,199
people underneath them did not come up under the same circumstances.

959
00:58:53,599 --> 00:58:55,920
They were not forced to compete in any sort of

960
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,639
meritocracy whatsoever, and they were pushed well ahead of their

961
00:58:59,639 --> 00:59:02,159
skills sets. And so if you look at you know,

962
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,880
Millennial and you know gen X directors, writers and all

963
00:59:06,679 --> 00:59:10,079
their diversity hires, so even you know, the kind of

964
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:13,639
like core skill set of how to write something compelling, right,

965
00:59:13,679 --> 00:59:15,880
even if the politics in it are horrible, and there's

966
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,800
a great number of examples of films that have bad politics,

967
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,159
but are you know, great to watch. I think that's

968
00:59:21,159 --> 00:59:23,840
another element as well, that they have sort of undercut

969
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,679
their own talent based to the point where I don't

970
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:30,960
think they have anyone who even understands what they're doing anymore.

971
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:35,280
Maybe a discussion for another day that but arch we're

972
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:36,960
oh sorry, I'll let you respond.

973
00:59:37,199 --> 00:59:39,639
Speaker 2: Oh you know, I'll just finish by saying that that's true.

974
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,920
There was an article a few weeks ago that basically

975
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,559
was from it Insider that was trying to become a writer.

976
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:47,559
He was a young person trying to become a right

977
00:59:47,719 --> 00:59:49,480
in the page, and he was.

978
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:54,519
Speaker 3: The Lost Generation is by something Savage in Compact.

979
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, where he simply lined out that no, they weren't

980
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,679
looking for good writers. That was ir relevant. That was

981
01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:01,719
a Urchieady concern.

982
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:02,159
Speaker 1: At best.

983
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: They were looking for diverse writers, and when they needed

984
01:00:05,639 --> 01:00:09,199
one or two good writers, they had an entire stable

985
01:00:09,239 --> 01:00:12,320
of fifty sixty year old people with proven track records

986
01:00:12,519 --> 01:00:16,360
that they would rely on instead. And so we lost

987
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:21,679
an entire generation, multiple generations of storytellers who never got

988
01:00:21,719 --> 01:00:24,360
a chance because they were born wrong.

989
01:00:26,519 --> 01:00:31,639
Speaker 3: Again, they're doing it to themselves. And honestly, Warhammer was,

990
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:36,559
and I've successfully emotionally divorced from Warhammer. I don't really

991
01:00:36,639 --> 01:00:40,400
care anymore because I can't do anything about it, right,

992
01:00:40,559 --> 01:00:42,639
and they have a little bit of control over you

993
01:00:42,719 --> 01:00:45,360
if you do care, right, if you're still buying this stuff.

994
01:00:46,239 --> 01:00:49,639
But with all of these other ones, you know, it's

995
01:00:49,679 --> 01:00:53,000
just very clear there's there's not much left, you know,

996
01:00:53,079 --> 01:00:57,679
they have been sort of hoard out. And again, as

997
01:00:57,719 --> 01:00:59,880
you said, the best bet we've got is sort of

998
01:01:00,159 --> 01:01:03,679
either going back right to a previous version or you know,

999
01:01:03,719 --> 01:01:07,880
to the source material, or making your own because clearly,

1000
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,280
you know, the people in charge of these different franchises

1001
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:14,320
you know, pick your poison right, are complete and total idiots,

1002
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:20,920
to be blunt about it. Absolutely well, Arch, we are

1003
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,400
fast approaching time. This was a fun discussion. We talked

1004
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,800
about Warhammer much less than I thought. Where can people

1005
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:28,239
find you? Where can they find your work?

1006
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: Well, these days it's either the law channel, which is

1007
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,760
simply called ARCH for interesting for the k law, or

1008
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,519
if you're interested in the regular cultural commentary and the politics,

1009
01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:41,079
then that is the arch cast.

1010
01:01:42,719 --> 01:01:44,719
Speaker 3: Well again, check both of those out as far as

1011
01:01:44,719 --> 01:01:47,960
my stuff, The Jay Burdens Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere

1012
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,119
you want to listen to podcasts. This is what I do.

1013
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:52,360
It's my job, and if you want to support me

1014
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:54,519
you can do so just a couple bucks a month

1015
01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:57,800
on Patreon, Substack or gum road. You get the episodes

1016
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:00,360
early in ad free. I know the ads are your rotating,

1017
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:02,960
but you know what, I got a mortgage to pay. Guys,

1018
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,480
I'm sorry, and if you pay for it, it's like

1019
01:02:05,559 --> 01:02:08,199
twenty cents an episode, not a bad deal, So you

1020
01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:10,760
can support me. There again, Archie was a ton of fun.

1021
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 1: Man, I'm solely happy to be Yeah.

1022
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 3: Never went home. Keep your head up. Well, I can't

1023
01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:17,559
last forever.

1024
01:02:17,679 --> 01:02:41,199
Speaker 4: Good night.

1025
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,559
Speaker 5: How can I help? It's a question I asked my

1026
01:02:51,639 --> 01:02:55,599
patients every day. It's a question I ask myself. One

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thing I've learned is that I can help even more

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when I can easily connect with pediatricians, specialists, nurses who

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takes a wider view of your health.

1031
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Speaker 4: That's VHI.

1032
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:14,199
Speaker 5: We're healthcare connects. So let me rephrase the question, how

1033
01:03:14,239 --> 01:03:16,559
can we help VHI?

1034
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:18,679
Speaker 3: Because your health means everything?

1035
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: What's all the worsh fart.

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1048
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Speaker 5: Let me point something out.

1049
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 3: You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great.

1050
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Speaker 1: You love the host, You seek it out and download it.

1051
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Speaker 3: You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even

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going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion.

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