WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.399 Those of you who listen to John Girardi show a lot. No, 2 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:08.400 I often do a little inside Catholic baseball where I 3 00:00:08.439 --> 00:00:11.320 talk about different topics relating to Catholicism and stuff like that, 4 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:16.920 I being a Catholic. So it is with with some trepidation, 5 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:24.640 excuse me, it is with some trepidation that I cross 6 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:28.760 the street to the Protestant side of the street, Uh, 7 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:32.920 to talk about some inside Protestant baseball stuff. And it's 8 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:39.280 to talk about the magazine Christianity Today. Now, I am 9 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:45.000 not here to cast stones on my against my evangelical 10 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:51.600 brethren for having a kind of media outlet called Christianity 11 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:57.079 Today that is straying a lot from Orthodox Christianity. Uh. 12 00:00:57.240 --> 00:00:59.399 That would be a pretty silly thing for a Catholic 13 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.759 to do. Give that we have a magazine called The 14 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:10.040 National Catholic Reporter that is not exactly very Catholic in 15 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:12.799 a whole lot of ways. So this isn't trust me 16 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:18.000 that any critique that's happening here, my beloved evangelical friends, 17 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:22.319 is coming from a place of love and sympathy, not empathy. 18 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:28.159 Sympathy for your historic institutions being corrupted by the fingers 19 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:36.239 of liberals Christianity Today was founded by Billy Graham and 20 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:40.319 has been an important publication in evangelical circles for a 21 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:44.719 long time. Russell Moore the former head of sort of 22 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:51.079 the Baptists sort of what was what was his role exactly? 23 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:52.560 He was sort of the head of kind of the 24 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:56.439 Baptist sort of lobbying outfit that was in Washington, d c. 25 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:03.359 And he's become sort of progressively more more left leaning 26 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:08.759 over the course of the last several years, especially over 27 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:12.520 the course of COVID and the Trump era. Yeah, he 28 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:14.560 was the head of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, 29 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:17.800 which is the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, 30 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:21.840 and he's gotten a lot of flack from them for 31 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:24.680 sort of being this liberalizing force. And he's now the 32 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:29.599 editor in chief of Christianity Today. Well, as some of 33 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:37.240 you may know, yesterday Jimmy Carter passed away. And you know, 34 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:44.319 there's this Latin expression de mortuis nihil nissi bonum concerning 35 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:50.960 the dead nothing but good things, Meaning after someone dies, 36 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:55.840 maybe let's you know, reserve all of our harshest critiques, 37 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.280 maybe save them for later. This person just died, i'd 38 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:03.680 let's be nice to that. You know, let's be nice 39 00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:06.599 to them for the sake of their grieving family and whatnot. 40 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:11.080 You know, someone who's kind of rotten passes away, you 41 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.120 try to be civil. You be civil about him. You 42 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:18.000 don't bring up old crap or just anyone who dies 43 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:20.919 like you don't go to the funeral and during the 44 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:24.960 eulogy talk about how yeah, and then when he you know, 45 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.719 when he cheated on his wife and he you know, 46 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:34.360 stiffed a couple of contractors who worked for him, and well, no, 47 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:38.479 I mean that, you know, it's not to overlook those things, 48 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:44.840 but that's just not the appropriate time. On the other hand, though, 49 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:48.879 the other side of it is that if you're at 50 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:51.039 a bad guy's funeral, you don't during the eulogy talk 51 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:57.960 about what a wonderful, faithful, uh faithful husband he was. 52 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:00.520 You know, if he cheated on his wife, oh that's 53 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:03.000 not Maybe you don't go on and on with hay 54 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:09.919 geography of the person at the funeral. If this person 55 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.560 was not a good husband, you don't talk about what 56 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:17.879 a wonderful, what husband he was. You emphasize the good 57 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:20.680 and you mostly kind of stay silent about the bad. 58 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:27.560 That's a fine thing to do. But eulogizing someone by 59 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:31.959 talking about what a wonderful devout Christian they were when 60 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.079 they weren't really a wonderful devout Christian is a little 61 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:39.839 bit dishonest, and especially if it's coming from a publication 62 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:45.079 like Christianity Today, which occupies kind of an important space, 63 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:49.720 especially in the evangelical world, of giving kind of almost 64 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:57.959 near magisterial opinions about American culture and Christianity and where 65 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:07.199 we fit within that culture. So I found this long 66 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:14.600 Twitter post from John G. West, who is the vice 67 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:17.519 president of the Discovery Institute and some some kind of 68 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:22.879 evangelical outfit, and he's talking about Christianity Today's sort of 69 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.000 they're not their eulogy for Jimmy Carter, the sort of 70 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:32.279 their their obituary more or less for Jimmy Carter. Christianity 71 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:36.040 Today published this kind of obituary piece about Jimmy Carter 72 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:41.600 at the time, yes yesterday, after his passing, And it's 73 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:44.480 clear that I think a lot of publications do this. 74 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.240 I'm sure I'm sure a ton of newspapers do this, 75 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:51.639 where they're getting the obituary ready, the obituary piece or 76 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:56.279 the actual obituary for a famous person, they've got it 77 00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:00.879 ready to go, so that if someone eyes, they're ready 78 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:05.439 to publish something like right away. So clearly Christianity today 79 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:13.000 had this in the hopper, and apparently this piece on 80 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:20.560 Jimmy Carter was so just slobberrific about how wonderful Jimmy 81 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:25.120 Carter is that it goes into the realm of eulogizing 82 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:27.120 the guy who cheated on his husband for what a 83 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.000 wonderful husband he was, sorry, the guy who cheated on 84 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:34.959 his wife for what a wonderful husband he was. So 85 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:38.920 let's John G. West sort of points out a couple 86 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:41.319 of different points, and I think it's significant because there 87 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:48.560 is seemingly this strain of evangelical Christianity. I think a 88 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:50.720 lot of times, especially those of us who are Catholics 89 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:55.519 or people who aren't Evangelicals, we look at evangelical Christianity, 90 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.439 which is, first of all, is kind of a very 91 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:04.720 loose term that is hard to pin down precisely what 92 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:09.639 we mean when we say quote evangelical Christianity. Obviously it 93 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:19.120 means Protestants. It largely means, though not exclusively, Southern Baptists 94 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:23.000 and Southern Baptist fellow travelers, whether they are actually part 95 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:28.600 of the Southern Baptist convention or not. Southern Baptist Christianity 96 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:33.920 is kind of the most dominant single strain of Protestant 97 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:40.639 Christianity in America, and a lot of non denominational churches 98 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:46.439 who claim a non denominational status, they sort of fall 99 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:49.439 into this sort of default Southern Baptist kind of theology. 100 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:55.480 I think a lot of Catholics also, a lot of Catholics. 101 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:59.120 I think when you say Protestant, what actually comes to 102 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:03.680 the mind of most Catholics is Southern Baptists, and a 103 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:09.560 lot of like Catholic Catholic apologetics for discussion, for talking 104 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:15.560 with non Catholics about the faith. Most Catholic apologetics seem 105 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:20.560 to be in America anyway, seemed to be oriented towards 106 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:25.519 having a conversation with a Southern Baptist. So this is 107 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:29.879 really significant for Christianity today to be talking from this 108 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:34.799 sort of evangelical perspective about this, to be talking about 109 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:38.039 as sort of the representative of evangelical Christianity, to be 110 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:41.559 talking about Jimmy Carter. What is the legacy of this 111 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:53.519 very prominent public person. So within evangelicalism, though, there's this 112 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:59.480 sort of liberalizing strain among Southern Baptists that really reared 113 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.679 its head during the Trump years, and especially with regards 114 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:06.519 to COVID, where there's almost this sense of like, if 115 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:14.320 someone is a professing Christian, a professing Baptist, a professing 116 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:24.279 born again Christian, that there's almost this willingness to overlook 117 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.159 the liberal stuff that they did, including things that might 118 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:34.879 be contrary to historic little o orthodox Christianity. One of 119 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:38.919 the people for whom this was really prominently seen in 120 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.120 the last four or five years, in the last five 121 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:46.440 years especially was doctor Francis Collins. Francis Collins was the 122 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:48.559 head of the National Institutes of Health and he was 123 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:54.320 one of the big villains of the COVID era. He 124 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:58.120 was Anthony Fauci's boss actually, so within the hierarchy of 125 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:00.759 the federal government there was Francis Collins was in charge 126 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:02.600 of the National Institutes of Health. And one of the 127 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:07.039 subdivisions of the National Institutes of Health is USAID, which 128 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:11.279 Anthony Fauci ran. And again just for I've discussed this 129 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:13.519 on the show a number of times, but the roles 130 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:17.840 of those two agencies was they give out federal research grants. 131 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.519 That's what they do Anthony Fauci's job was not America's doctor. 132 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:24.399 His job was he was a federal bureaucrat who gave 133 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:30.320 out federal research grants for researching infectious diseases, and so 134 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.320 he and Francis Collins, that was their job. Francis Collins, 135 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:38.519 from his perch at NIH, was often called upon by 136 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:44.679 different evangelical outlets to talk with them or to was 137 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:56.480 prominently featured, including Russell Moore who Russell Moore really liked 138 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.519 Francis Collins. And this is Russell Moore when he was 139 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:03.080 the head of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, he 140 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:07.879 was really big on Francis Collins. Lots of Republicans in Washington, 141 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:12.879 especially evangelicals, really liked Francis Collins. Why well, because he 142 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:16.519 was a born again Christian, a professing born again Christian 143 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:20.039 who would occasionally do stuff where he'd play guitar and 144 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:22.960 sing songs about Jesus. This in spite of the fact 145 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.120 that he was like the federal bureaucrat overseeing research grants, 146 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:30.039 and also in spite of the fact that why was 147 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:34.480 Francis Collins picked to head NIH. He was picked because 148 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:40.480 he was aggressively in favor of federal funding for embryo 149 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:46.639 destructive stem cell research, research that required the destruction of 150 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:51.879 embryos to get their stem cells for different kinds of 151 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:56.879 medical research. Now that proved to be a complete flop 152 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:01.840 and a complete dead end. There were no cures that 153 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:05.840 resulted from embryonic stem cells, the kinds of stem cells 154 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:10.759 that you acquire by destroying embryos. But he pursued it 155 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.919 enormously aggressively. It's why Barack Obama picked him for the job. 156 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:17.399 Barack Obama comes in in two thousand and nine, one 157 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.200 of the first things he does is he reverses George W. 158 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.440 Bush's policies about embryonic stem cell research and federal funding 159 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:28.799 for it. He says, Nope, we're gonna fully federally fund this. 160 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.360 We don't care about destroying embryos, we don't care about 161 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.919 creating human beings new embryos solely to use their body 162 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:41.360 parts for research. Francis Collins supported that he supported fetal 163 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:47.720 tissue research using the bodies of aborted children. All the 164 00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:51.000 stuff that David de Lighten uncovered about Planned parenthood selling 165 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:55.639 the body parts of children they aborted. The market for 166 00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:59.720 those body parts was created by the NIH and people 167 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:05.360 like Francis Collins, who had federal funding for research using 168 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.320 fetal tissue from and they needed the fetal tissue to 169 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:14.000 come from somewhere, and they derived it from aborted babies. 170 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.960 Francis Collins was hugely supportive of this, resisted Trump when 171 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:23.559 during the Trump administration, when he was still in charge, 172 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:28.639 resisted the Trump administration's efforts to stop funding fetal tissue research. 173 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:32.919 Trump was able to enact that policy over Collins's objections, 174 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:39.720 which were reported in major media outlets. So there's this 175 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.879 whole sort of liberalizing trend. He's not the only one, 176 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:44.399 by the way. I bring him up as an example, 177 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.919 but there's this whole sort of liberalizing trend among kind 178 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:52.480 of people in leadership positions within the Southern Baptist Convention 179 00:13:54.600 --> 00:14:00.039 sort of being very okay with extremely liberal people doing 180 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.600 extremely bad things that are opposed to Christianity as long 181 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:08.919 as they are kinda sort of professing Christians, as if 182 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:14.600 the celebrity magnetism of oh my gosh, Francis Collins, the 183 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:18.200 head of the NIH and an Obama appoint is a 184 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.840 born again Christian. Oh wow, aren't we cool for interacting 185 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:28.919 with him? And it seems that this kind of slobbering 186 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:33.320 desire to be near power applied to Jimmy Carter two 187 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:44.000 and this whole piece it Again, I understand concerning the dead, 188 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:47.399 don't say anything except a good thing. But the idea 189 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:54.679 of Jimmy Carter as an exemplary Christian from the perspective 190 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:59.919 of evangelical Christianity seems very hard to sustain to me 191 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:04.519 in a number of ways, which we will detail after 192 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.840 the break. This is the John Girardi Show on Power Talk. 193 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.320 We're talking about a piece from Christianity today about the 194 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:22.559 passing of Jimmy Carter. And my again, I understand, someone dies, 195 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:24.600 you don't just talk about what a piece of crap 196 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.159 they are. But you also if the person was a 197 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.879 piece of crap, you don't talk about what a saint 198 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:34.279 they were. And I think that's what's happening, and it's 199 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:39.639 tracking with this trend that other evangelicals like Meg Basham 200 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.240 and others have pointed out much better than I have, 201 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:50.440 about liberalizing trends within leadership of the big time leadership, 202 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:55.879 especially within Southern Baptist Christianity or sort of big institutions 203 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.399 within the evangelical Christian world. Now, I am not an 204 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:02.240 expert to speak about these things. If you want me 205 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:06.240 to talk about problems like this on my Catholic side 206 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:13.559 of the street, more than happy to do so. But 207 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:18.080 here's sort of the main things that were wrong and 208 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:22.080 really wrong about this sort of obituary that was published 209 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:24.679 by Christianity Today, which is one of the leading publications 210 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.440 of evangelical Christianity founded by Billy Graham. It's editor in 211 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:31.279 chief is Russell Moore. Some of the main problems with 212 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:34.200 this piece, and this was identified by again by John G. West, 213 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:40.279 the vice president of the Discovery Institute, who writes, here's 214 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:42.519 some of the things that were in this piece that 215 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:49.960 maybe give pause. First, there was this desire to sort 216 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.799 of compare and within this obituary piece, there was this 217 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:59.759 compare and contrast attitude between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan 218 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.119 to make it look like Carter was a good Christian 219 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:08.559 and Reagan was a crappy Christian. So it brings up 220 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:13.319 this idea that Reagan was divorced twice, which is not true. 221 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:18.920 Reagan was divorced once. So just this basic factual error, 222 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:27.039 And what John G. West writes is he writes the 223 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:31.599 point of drawing attention to Reagan's divorce was to slam 224 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:35.599 evangelical voters for trading in the saintly Carter for the 225 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:40.200 supposedly far less devout and loose living Reagan. This is 226 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:43.759 a common trope voiced by left wing evangelicals, but it 227 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:46.359 happens to be false. We now know, thanks to the 228 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:49.319 work of scholars like Paul Kenger, that Reagan was a 229 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:56.400 pretty serious evangelical Christian in his personal life. Next problem, 230 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.000 and again, I think also from just a public policy perspective, 231 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.200 I'd much rather have the Reagans, at least President Reagan 232 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.079 set of policies when it comes to abortion, etc. Than 233 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.640 I would the Carter policies. Number two, the article suggests 234 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:15.359 that Carter's disastrous presidency was foisted on him by outside 235 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:17.920 events over which he could do nothing. Again, this is 236 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.039 a standard talking point by the left, but it's highly debatable. 237 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:29.000 Number three. Although the article glancingly mentions the White House 238 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.720 Conference on Families, it doesn't do much at all to 239 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.160 help people understand why evangelicals were so upset about this event. 240 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:38.559 Among other things, the conference offered a redefinition of family 241 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:44.000 that is incompatible with Christian teaching. I might also mention 242 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:47.880 He writes that Carter appointed some extreme cultural progressives to 243 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.359 the courts, and Jimmy Carter never had a Jimmy Carter 244 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.680 didn't have a Supreme Court vacancy during his one term 245 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:56.519 in office, but he did appoint a lot of very 246 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:03.680 liberal Circuit Court judges. That was another reason West writes 247 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:09.640 why theologically conservative evangelicals were upset it with him. Number four. 248 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.119 The article talks early on about Carter's conservative theology, yet 249 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:16.960 not one word is spent discussing his promotion of gay 250 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:20.920 marriage much more recently. Why by the end of his 251 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:27.720 life Carter definitely did not embrace a conservative theology. But 252 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.079 I guess delving into that wouldn't fit the narrative CT 253 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:34.200 wants to offer, so it was suppressed. It's appropriate to 254 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.799 laud Carter for the good things he did, especially at 255 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:40.759 the time of his passing, but a serious Christian publication 256 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:44.640 would have offered something more serious than this worshipful piece. 257 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:51.119 And then he concludes by saying this, which I think 258 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:56.160 is really instructive. One reason it's important to talk about 259 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:58.880 Carter's real record is because his rise to fame and 260 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:03.119 power is symptomatic of an unhealthy strand in Evangelical Christianity. 261 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:08.519 Even today, many evangelicals embrace public figures who wear their 262 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:13.440 faith on their sleeve, paying almost no attention to their 263 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:18.880 actual policy views and actions. When Christians do that, they 264 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.640 get politicians in public officials like Jimmy Carter or more 265 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:28.440 recently Francis Collins out of the NIH. I would add that, 266 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:33.200 and that's the main point of this. I think some 267 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.200 Evangelicals are starting to see this and realize this a 268 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.119 little bit later than Catholics did. Catholics, for a long 269 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.039 time figured out that we had plenty of, you know, 270 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:49.400 professingly Catholic politicians who were terrible Catholics and whose public 271 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:54.920 policy positions were completely contrary to what they profess to 272 00:20:54.960 --> 00:21:02.119 believe on Sunday, starting with the Kennedys and going on 273 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:07.680 from there, you know, from Kennedy to Carrie to Joe Biden, 274 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:15.680 you know, the professing baptized Catholics who all their public 275 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:20.119 policy beliefs were totally contrary to Catholicism. And yet there 276 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:23.880 was some sense among Catholic liberals to sort of like 277 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.799 give sort of some kind of hagiography or act like 278 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:30.240 these people were wonderful just because they happened to be 279 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.039 Roman Catholics because a priest happened to pour water over 280 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.480 their heads when they were baptized. I think baptism is important, 281 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.160 but you gotta do some more stuff after that. You 282 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:42.720 have to keep living out your Catholic faith. You can't 283 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:49.000 just leave it there. So anyway, I just thought this 284 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.720 was fascinating how it seems as though Evangelical Christianity is 285 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.480 right now wrestling with a lot of these things that 286 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.960 Roman Catholicism was wrestling with, you know, twenty thirty years ago. 287 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.240 When we return more stuff about Gosh, I'm doing all 288 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.319 kinds of stuff about Christianity. What do men want to 289 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:10.240 follow in Christianity? And do they actually want to follow 290 00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:13.400 Jesus or something else? Next on the John Girardi Show, 291 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:19.039 doing a lot of Christianity stuff today and wading into 292 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:24.599 Evangelical Christianity. Now I'm going to comment on this, and 293 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:28.319 I'm commenting I want to establish some humility and some 294 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:33.279 acknowledgment of my lack of understanding. I see this clip 295 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:41.519 circulating around online. My pastor named Mark Driscoll, who seems 296 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:47.640 from a large non denominational church. Now, I don't know 297 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:50.720 how prominent this guy is. All I know is he 298 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:53.200 is the pastor of a big megachurch, seems to be 299 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:58.240 some kind of evangelical of some sort. I'm not going 300 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.720 to say all of you who are evangelical Christians who 301 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:06.039 define yourselves as evangelical Christians, I'm not pinning his beliefs 302 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:09.759 on all of you, okay, or on any of you necessarily, 303 00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:15.880 But I do think that some of the things he 304 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.119 talks about in this are reflective of a lot of 305 00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:22.359 strains that we're seeing in culture, especially sort of male 306 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:28.839 oriented media and social media ideas from influencers at the 307 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.960 extreme end to influencers like Andrew Tate and others talking 308 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:33.799 about what it means to be a man and be 309 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.039 a masculine and what men need to do to have 310 00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:42.039 success and blah blah blah blah blah working out and 311 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.440 crushing it in business and da da da da dad, 312 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.720 all these sort of ideas from people who range from 313 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:51.200 like motivational speakers to social media defaces to apparently to 314 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:57.839 some extent, Christian pastors. So just to see some of 315 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:02.240 these things infecting Christianity, I just want to discuss. Okay, 316 00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:06.440 So this is and in fairness, I'm also commenting on 317 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:12.400 this because this is Mark Driscoll commenting on Catholicism. So 318 00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.680 I'm going to stand up a little bit for my 319 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:17.799 guys from my side of the street here. So this 320 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.920 is Mark Driscoll. This is what he has to say 321 00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:28.559 about Catholic priests and why it's hard for men to 322 00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:33.359 follow what Catholic priests say to follow Catholic priests as leaders. 323 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.440 I love Catholics. There are Catholics that love Jesus. But 324 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.799 part of the problem with work in Catholicism, especially for men, 325 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:43.880 the leader is the priest, and the priest is committed 326 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:46.799 to poverty and chastity. Just so you know, that's my 327 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.799 unbucketed list. I don't want to die a broke vision 328 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.079 at the church. In fact, I promise you that's not 329 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:55.119 how I'm going out within that it doesn't bring the 330 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.960 healthiest men, and it doesn't encourage and inspire men. Because 331 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.279 if the leader is well, he doesn't have a wife, 332 00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.440 he doesn't have kids, he doesn't own anything, he's not 333 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:07.720 building anything, and he's not responsible for anyone. It's really 334 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.119 hard to admire that guy. 335 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:17.519 All right, let's go into this. He says that the 336 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:23.200 reason why it's hard for Catholics to take leadership from 337 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:27.039 a priest is because they don't own anything. They don't 338 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.240 have a wife, they don't have kids, they're not building anything, 339 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:36.759 so I guess they're not business entrepreneurs. They're not quote 340 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:45.559 responsible for anyone, which I find an odd characterization of it. 341 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:50.559 I mean, even at the most fundamental level, a pastor 342 00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.759 of a Catholic church is sort of an employer as 343 00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:57.319 a manager. He's responsible for his staff, he's responsible for volunteers, 344 00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:02.000 he's responsible for this church, for the financial assets of 345 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:05.400 the church, and and you know, overseeing that. Like there's 346 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:07.839 actually quite a few things I'm on my you know, 347 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:11.839 my Catholic parish has a finance council, So I mean 348 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:16.079 I see the books of my parish, and my pastor 349 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:20.319 is responsible for quite a few things which I see 350 00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:22.880 in my just day to day going to church interacting 351 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:28.720 with him. So just on a factual level that this 352 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:32.279 seems silly, but I he's also got a couple of 353 00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:39.920 other things wrong. So not all Catholic priests are exactly 354 00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:43.920 the same. Some Catholic priests take what's called a vow 355 00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:47.240 of poverty. They're usually part of some religious community like 356 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:53.279 the Franciscans or the Dominicans or the Benedictines or something 357 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.880 like that, or the Jesuits, where they know individual member 358 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:02.240 of the community owns anything. Property is owned by the community, 359 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.559 So you take a vow of poverty, meaning I'm never 360 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:12.079 going to own anything i myself. Most priests, though, who 361 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:17.839 are normal parish priests, priests running your parish, don't take 362 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:21.240 that vow. So they do actually have a salary. They 363 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.640 can own things, they can inherit their families money, they 364 00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:28.119 can you know, they can own things. But at the 365 00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:33.480 same time that the yeah, they're not building massive investment portfolios, 366 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:40.880 their salary is not much, and they work really hard 367 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.039 running their parish. The point of their ministry is not 368 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:46.039 to make a lot of money. Their point that you know, 369 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:49.759 there's no you know, big worldly power or fame that 370 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:56.599 they're trying to aim for here, all right, So he's 371 00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.599 getting a lot of factual stuff mixed up. Now, it's 372 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:02.720 hard for men to follow a priest because they're not married, 373 00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:07.359 they don't have kids, and they're not they don't own stuff. 374 00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:15.119 Can we think of a very prominent and successful Christian 375 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:22.480 leader who was not married, didn't have kids, was very poor, 376 00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:33.400 didn't own stuff, and yet still inspired a lot of men. Hmmm, 377 00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:42.559 let's think about historic christ Shean leaders, followers of Jesus 378 00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:47.440 who didn't own things, didn't have a lot of money, 379 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:53.359 didn't get married, didn't have kids. Oh wait, you mean 380 00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:59.559 this guy named Jesus Christ himself? Like, was there no 381 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.480 self self awareness from this dude before he opened his mouth? 382 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:13.160 No self awareness that Jesus Christ died, as he puts it, 383 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:20.720 a poor virgin at the church. I don't I guess, 384 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.920 I don't know. But you know, we just read at 385 00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:28.240 the Gospel yesterday at Mass, so we talked about Joseph 386 00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:31.599 and Mary losing the child Jesus and finding him in 387 00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:33.640 the temple. Did you not know that? I must be 388 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:39.079 in my father's house. So there's no self awareness from 389 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:43.079 this guy from this markdiscal character that Jesus died a 390 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:47.839 bro virgin. And let's look at the other Let's look 391 00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.480 at the twelve apostles. All right, we don't have perfect 392 00:29:52.519 --> 00:30:00.640 historical records for them, necessarily, but there's good historical evidence that, 393 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.440 for example, the apostle John died a broke virgin. That 394 00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:08.839 actually most of the apostles died as broke virgins, or 395 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:11.799 at least as broke celibates at the time. You know, 396 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:16.680 it's a little unclear how many of the apostles were married. 397 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:25.359 There's some there's evidence, some thought or some writings about 398 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:27.400 Saint Peter in what his life was like, that maybe 399 00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:31.079 he was a widower and died as you know, again, 400 00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:37.079 a broke celibate. But there are plenty of Christians who 401 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:44.920