Speaker 1: Oh hey, twenty twenty two, me here taking a few
Speaker 1: weeks to be with my family after my dear dad's passing.
Speaker 1: For more on what's been going on there, you can
Speaker 1: listen to the secrets at the ends of episode starting
Speaker 1: around mid April with the squid encore. But here's another
Speaker 1: gem of an episode that I love. I hope you
Speaker 1: dig it. Oh hey, it's that lady in front of
Speaker 1: you at the grocery store who didn't realize she was
Speaker 1: holding up the line because she's reading a magazine. Ali Ward. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is kind of two episodes of Ologies, because over
Speaker 1: the next two weeks you're going to get up close
Speaker 1: and personal with those wizened, slowly ambling boulders, tortoises and
Speaker 1: turtles an sea turtles. What is their deal? Why do
Speaker 1: they live to be one million? Do they need us
Speaker 1: to save them? Are they misanthropes or just introverts? Et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. But before we take a deep dive in
Speaker 1: a turtle burrow, and we will kiddos per usual. Thanks
Speaker 1: to all the friends on patreon dot com slash Ologies
Speaker 1: who help support the making of the show and contribute
Speaker 1: so many good questions for Theologists. Thanks to everyone who
Speaker 1: is buying shirts and toats and hats on ologiesmerch dot com.
Speaker 1: Thanks to all the new subscribers, hey, and folks leaving
Speaker 1: ratings and even reviews which you know, I read like
Speaker 1: your grandma going through old birthday cards like this week.
Speaker 1: This one from put a Burk on It says, this
Speaker 1: is the type of binge worthy podcast that makes you
Speaker 1: sit in your driveway after a ninety mile commute home
Speaker 1: from work at four am, just because you have to
Speaker 1: finish the episode. Not that I've done that. Okay, yeah
Speaker 1: I have, they say, so, thank you put a bork
Speaker 1: on It. Thanks to anyone who has ever left a review.
Speaker 1: If you've written one, I've read it and it made
Speaker 1: me happy. Probably. Okay, So turtles boy, howdy are you
Speaker 1: about to fall the hell in love with turtles? Okay?
Speaker 1: Over the next two weeks, turtles will be digging a
Speaker 1: gentle burrow in your heart, where they will sleep like
Speaker 1: little cozy potatoes for the next I don't know, one
Speaker 1: hundred and forty years. So this week is test studentology,
Speaker 1: which it comes from the Latin test dudo for tortoise,
Speaker 1: and I was introduced to this testudonologist through reptile hero
Speaker 1: doctor David Stein, who you may remember from the Herpetology episode,
Speaker 1: Remember him, right, Dope. I was like, xteen, you got
Speaker 1: any turtle people? And he was like, God, damn do
Speaker 1: I And he introduced me to one of his favorite
Speaker 1: turtle people on maybe planet Earth. She did her undergrad
Speaker 1: at the University of North Florida. She had an internship
Speaker 1: at the Jacksonville Zoo Animal Hospital, and is now getting
Speaker 1: her masters at Florida Atlantic University, studying gopher tortoises and
Speaker 1: what critters share their burrows and doing some digging. It
Speaker 1: turns out that her tortoise love goes way way back.
Speaker 1: So we talk about turtles versus tortoises versus terrapins, what's
Speaker 1: up with those big heavy shells they're toting, and how
Speaker 1: Team Turtle is affected by humans, her feelings on teenage
Speaker 1: Moutant Ninja turtles they're very crazy anatomy, let's say, and
Speaker 1: how they live so long and more. Also, I feel
Speaker 1: I must warn you that these two turtle interviews this
Speaker 1: weekend next I'm a little too excited about turtles. It
Speaker 1: was just legitimately very earnestly pumped, but pull up a
Speaker 1: stump and have a sit for the infectious dedication of
Speaker 1: tortoise advocate, wildlife biologists and test studentologist Amanda Hips. Okay,
Speaker 1: so welcome, hello.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Welcome to LA. And now where are you from?
Speaker 2: I'm from Florida, from South Florida. Oh you are like Fishermantown, Stuart.
Speaker 1: Did you grow up going to beaches a bunch or
Speaker 1: romping and swamps? Were you beach?
Speaker 2: I was mostly like I liked the beach. It's it's fine,
Speaker 2: but I mostly I was in the woods or the swamps,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, that was kind of My family really
Speaker 2: loved hiking. So that was a lot of what we
Speaker 2: did is just hike.
Speaker 1: What are the Florida swamps like?
Speaker 2: Take me to so smelly? Are so great? I love them.
Speaker 1: She loves a smelly swamp? How much do you like her? Already?
Speaker 1: So much? I don't think I've ever been in a
Speaker 1: proper swamp.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you had to come.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so just even like hiking in a swamp.
Speaker 2: It's called slogging, and I love this and I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's just it's like kind of it's super creepy, Like
Speaker 2: I you never know what you're gonna bump into. There's
Speaker 2: alligators and snakes and just tons of mosquitoes, which is
Speaker 2: maybe the most unpleasant part of all of it. But
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's just like a very mysterious place
Speaker 2: and it's like very little hiked. There's you know, not
Speaker 2: too many people that you'll run into out there.
Speaker 1: So how in danger of getting chomped? Are you?
Speaker 2: I you just just have to watch where you're going. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's you know, just be cautious. And but I've never
Speaker 2: had it. I've never really like bumped into an alligator
Speaker 2: and they're so scared, like they're usually they usually kind
Speaker 2: of disappear if they see you coming. But you have
Speaker 2: to be careful.
Speaker 1: What's the craziest shit you've ever seen in a swamp?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm going to just start another podcast called
Speaker 1: swamp Talking.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love it. I got a really
Speaker 2: cool picture when I was in the swamp of a
Speaker 2: cotton mouth and he was just chilling.
Speaker 1: And cotton mouths are the ones that can they can
Speaker 1: bite you bad.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, they can. They are venomous.
Speaker 1: And so those are the ones that everyone they see
Speaker 1: like a dirty hose at a gas station and they're like,
Speaker 1: it's a cotten math.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1: So side note, if you've listened to the herpetology episode
Speaker 1: with doctor David Stein, you may remember the hashtag not
Speaker 1: a cotton mouth, in which he educates the public about
Speaker 1: the snakes that are frequently in fact not cotton mouse.
Speaker 1: And he sometimes educates someone so hard that I am
Speaker 1: in a good mood for days. Afterward he just owns them.
Speaker 1: Do you think that your swamp romping kind of contributed
Speaker 1: to your wanting to be a herpetologist of some kind? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Oh what's crazy is that I I never considered
Speaker 2: being a wildlife biologist actually, like going to school and
Speaker 2: doing my undergrad I was so lost. I knew I
Speaker 2: wanted to work with wildlife, but I didn't really have
Speaker 2: like exposure to any of the sciences, and so I
Speaker 2: kind of just thought, like, I want to work with animals,
Speaker 2: I should probably go to VET school. And that's kind
Speaker 2: of the guidance that I got, Like, I think that's
Speaker 2: what everyone told me. It was just to go to
Speaker 2: bed school. No one ever really suggested like why don't
Speaker 2: you like go to be a wildlife biologist?
Speaker 1: Okay, buckle up for a winding backstory that proves no
Speaker 1: one's life is linear, and that is beautiful and awesome.
Speaker 2: So I started. I did my entire undergrad kind of
Speaker 2: just gearing it towards going to bet School. And that's
Speaker 2: really like, I planned my entire life around that school.
Speaker 2: So I did all of my undergrad courses with that,
Speaker 2: and I ended up working for the Jacksonville Zero. I
Speaker 2: was an intern at the Jacksonville Zoo Animal Hospital, and
Speaker 2: I was I know, it was so great. It was
Speaker 2: very cool. It was very hard in some circumstances. It
Speaker 2: was dealing with mostly wildlife and native wildlife and doing
Speaker 2: rehab and then releasing, so it was pretty cool. But
Speaker 2: I was dealing a lot with gopher tortoises. Most of
Speaker 2: them were hit by cars, yeah, and so it was
Speaker 2: really awful. We were euthanizing a whole bunch quick rundown.
Speaker 1: So gopher tortoise territory is in the eastern southern United States,
Speaker 1: but most remaining gopher tortoises are in fact Floridians. So
Speaker 1: they're about a foot long, they're between eight and twelve pounds.
Speaker 1: Ladies are bigger, hello, and they have these strong scaly
Speaker 1: legs that are like alive garden trowels. And Amanda was
Speaker 1: also helping rehab injured tortoises, working sometimes for months with
Speaker 1: individuals whose shells had been split until they healed, and
Speaker 1: then releasing them back into the wild. But that didn't
Speaker 1: seem like enough. She was like, damn it, I love
Speaker 1: these little mofos.
Speaker 2: I feel like I should try to figure out how
Speaker 2: to help them in other ways. I would really like
Speaker 2: to get to know them from like the wildlife perspective.
Speaker 2: I started kind of like reading about gopher tortoises because
Speaker 2: I just was fascinated by them.
Speaker 1: What kind of game do these gopher tortoises have? How
Speaker 1: does a gopher tortoise slowly burrow its way into your heart?
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's so crazy.
Speaker 2: I think it was more just feeling like there were
Speaker 2: so many that were coming in and I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I don't know how they did it. How did they
Speaker 2: do that? As far as like really how they stole
Speaker 2: my heart, I'm really not sure. I don't know how
Speaker 2: that happened.
Speaker 1: So you started reading and reading about them, and you're like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I've become obsessed with gopher tortoises.
Speaker 2: Exactly what happened. Yeah, I don't know. I started just
Speaker 2: like looking into them because I was like, oh, they're
Speaker 2: what's called keystone species. And that's where I started learning,
Speaker 2: you know, all about gopher tortoises and all like this.
Speaker 2: This is a really incredible animal. And I was learning
Speaker 2: about their burrows and how so many other animals will
Speaker 2: share their burrows and it's oh, really important for the ecosystem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they have stowaways. Yes, Is that what a
Speaker 1: keystone species is?
Speaker 2: Not necessarily No, So, like the beaver is considered an
Speaker 2: ecological engineer in a keystone species because they're rearranging habitat.
Speaker 2: They're taking these trees, they're building dams, they're altering hydrology
Speaker 2: of rivers, and that's like ultimately affecting the wildlife that's coming.
Speaker 2: It's affecting the entire ecosystem. Same thing with the gopher tortoise.
Speaker 2: They dig these massive burrows. Oh they'll be they can
Speaker 2: be up to forty feet long.
Speaker 1: They're burrows. Or the tortoise they're kid just really a
Speaker 1: stretch limousine tortoise.
Speaker 2: They're like, damn, I wonder why it's.
Speaker 1: Getting hit man. That's says forty feet long. Okay, so
Speaker 1: they're burrows can be just like catacombs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they dig these massive burrows. There's a size of
Speaker 2: the tortoise. The shape of it is just like a tortoise.
Speaker 2: But they can be up to forty feet on average,
Speaker 2: they're like fifteen to twenty Like I've definitely seen ones
Speaker 2: that are bigger.
Speaker 1: Damn. So side note, I just went and looked up
Speaker 1: videos of these turtles with these bodonka butts just flinging
Speaker 1: sand like little machines behind them, and it's the adorable list.
Speaker 1: Their burrows are kind of like if you had a
Speaker 1: tortoise silhouette from behind that was a cookie cutter that
Speaker 1: you just bored deep into a hillside, like.
Speaker 2: These other animals are using it. There's some species that
Speaker 2: have just co evolved with them and have are like,
Speaker 2: are fully reliant on them.
Speaker 1: I want to live in a gopher tortoise burrow me too.
Speaker 1: That sounds more spacious than my apartment in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: to be honest, like square footage wise, yeah, damn.
Speaker 2: But then you have all these roommates, that's true.
Speaker 1: There's moles and like weavils.
Speaker 2: It's just coming in like yeah, taking over.
Speaker 1: And so you started learning that they're this keystone species
Speaker 1: because the work that they do lets other animals kick
Speaker 1: it with them.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: They were like, they're the kind of people that like
Speaker 1: buy a big house in Tarzana and they're like pool
Speaker 1: party on Sunday, come over. Literally, that's exactly that's what
Speaker 1: they do.
Speaker 2: They do. This is what a party looks like, I mean,
Speaker 2: and like it's it's it's used for many different reasons.
Speaker 2: Some of them are like some animals are coming in
Speaker 2: to feed, some of them are coming to just a
Speaker 2: site for reproduction. There's a number of insects, which is
Speaker 2: actually what I'm studying, that are living in these burrows
Speaker 2: and they're fully reliant on the gopher tortoise, but they
Speaker 2: also have this mutualistic relationship where they're feeding on dungs.
Speaker 2: They're like the house keeping service.
Speaker 1: So we can you imagine if your maids, like I
Speaker 1: ate your garbage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they come in clean it. They're eating. They're just
Speaker 2: living their life and rolling around and shit, and it's
Speaker 2: they're not just any dung beetle though, it's like they're
Speaker 2: very specific. They're only eating poop. They might be eating poop,
Speaker 2: but they're really particular about what they like, what kind
Speaker 2: of fay And I was like, this is fascinating. And
Speaker 2: then just researching it, I found that at my university,
Speaker 2: University of North Florida, there is an advisor that was
Speaker 2: studying them, professor there, Joe Butler, and so I contacted
Speaker 2: him and I was like, hey, I heard you're doing
Speaker 2: some field work with gover tortoises. Can I jump in
Speaker 2: on this?
Speaker 1: I've allowed here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of just how I got started. And
Speaker 2: then that's when I was like, there's this whole field
Speaker 2: of wildlife biology. Oh my god, what am I doing here?
Speaker 1: So Amanda had been working on projects studying the reproductive
Speaker 1: success of for turtles, and she still had plans to
Speaker 1: go to VET school. She even applied and she was accepted,
Speaker 1: but she just like she just wasn't really sold on it.
Speaker 2: I ended up just being like like, I don't think
Speaker 2: I want to go. I don't really want to work
Speaker 2: with just cats and dogs. And so I kind of
Speaker 2: got involved with with like exotic animals and like working
Speaker 2: with Adabat in Colorado and he worked mostly with reptiles,
Speaker 2: and I just still I really didn't like it. I
Speaker 2: was like, I don't want to be in a hospital.
Speaker 2: I really wanted to be outside.
Speaker 1: So that's such a difference. I guess, like having your
Speaker 1: parking spot and your coffee mug, and like you know
Speaker 1: where you're going to sleep, you know what time you're
Speaker 1: waking up, versus some people probably couldn't handle what I'm
Speaker 1: now calling swamp ramping, yeah, or like you know, burrow
Speaker 1: recording or whatever. Like I guess it really depends on
Speaker 1: what kind of lifestyle you want right exactly, how clean
Speaker 1: you want your fingernails tack.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so true. I wanted to be dirty,
Speaker 2: It's true. I yeah, I didn't love working inside. I
Speaker 2: liked working with the animals, but I didn't really love
Speaker 2: the work itself. So that's when I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this anymore. And so I
Speaker 2: went to Madagascar and.
Speaker 1: Whoa, that's not that's not Florida. You're like by Florida.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I went to Madagascar and kind of got
Speaker 2: onto this internship where I was studying reptiles but mostly snakes,
Speaker 2: and that was amazing. It was a really really great
Speaker 2: experience and that's really what got me into Like I
Speaker 2: was like this is it? Like, this is the best
Speaker 2: that I felt.
Speaker 1: You're like ectotherms? Are my people?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Are they ectotherms?
Speaker 2: They are?
Speaker 1: Oh man, for a second, my brain froze and I
Speaker 1: thought I got that wrong and I was mortified. But yes, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: of course turtles are ectotherms. That means that they rely
Speaker 1: on external sources of heat, which is why you'll see
Speaker 1: turtles just basket on a log like pasty Florida spring Breakers,
Speaker 1: and also why it's so important to dig out burrows,
Speaker 1: which are pretty much like walking into an air conditioned
Speaker 1: movie theater in July, but darker and full of dirt
Speaker 1: and cool bugs that eat your pooh. When you are
Speaker 1: starting to get obsessed with turtles, like what kind of
Speaker 1: books are you reading? What kind of chat groups are
Speaker 1: you in? What kind of group text? Talk to me
Speaker 1: about the turtle world.
Speaker 2: Honestly, when it comes to connecting with p people in
Speaker 2: the turtle world, it's social media, really yeah, turtle Twitter, Instagram,
Speaker 2: It's Twitter, turtle Twitter. I mean there's so many like
Speaker 2: turtle groups on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Look, okay, when you say turtle groups, are these like
Speaker 1: the sea turtle people, the tortoise people, the turtle people. Okay, yeah, they're.
Speaker 2: All like yeah, I kind of think if you're a
Speaker 2: turtle person, you're a tortoise person, vice versa.
Speaker 1: All right, that's a good segue because we need to
Speaker 1: get to this right now. I mean I should have
Speaker 1: asked you this the second you walked in the door.
Speaker 1: Turtle versus tortoise, what's the deal?
Speaker 2: Okay, well, tortoises are turtles. Okay, they are turtles, but
Speaker 2: they're just adapted to living life on land, so their
Speaker 2: limbs are different, their legs are built for walking and digging.
Speaker 1: So a sea turtle really should have a should a
Speaker 1: sea turtle have a different name, like a turtle that way,
Speaker 1: like a turtle, you know, like the turtles like just
Speaker 1: like a whatever. We're all turtles and then you're fully
Speaker 1: see you're a turtle, you're fully land, you're a tortoise.
Speaker 1: You're maybe a little bit of both your turtle, but
Speaker 1: you're all turtles.
Speaker 2: I think we need to talk about this. Okay, this
Speaker 2: needs to be This needs to me be a chang dreaming.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just feel like, let's get specific about turtles.
Speaker 1: Give me some just overall anatomical facts about turtles because
Speaker 1: here's the thing about turtles. We know there's stuff going
Speaker 1: on under that shell. Oh yeah, like what is happening
Speaker 1: under that shell? It's like if there's a silver dome
Speaker 1: over a platter of food and it's just a mystery
Speaker 1: cloaked in fancy armor. We don't know what kind of organs.
Speaker 1: Do they have five hearts? How many butts do they have?
Speaker 1: You know, do they even have a liver? Like, what's
Speaker 1: going on in there?
Speaker 2: Okay, well yeah, I know that it's that that's where
Speaker 2: it all happens. That's where everything's happening.
Speaker 1: A party is under the shell.
Speaker 2: So with the shell, the ribs and the spine are
Speaker 2: like built in to the shell and to the top
Speaker 2: of the shell, so it's part of it. So tortoise
Speaker 2: can't leave it shell. I mean, that is everything. A
Speaker 2: lot of people really do think that they can just
Speaker 2: walk off and find a new one if they're growing.
Speaker 1: Well, there's some flim flam we debunked. Yeah, they're stuck
Speaker 1: with that shell for life. And how is it growing?
Speaker 2: Okay, So the shell is bone. Oh yeah, it's bone,
Speaker 2: and then it's just it has a cover keratin. It's
Speaker 2: covered in caratin, so it's like our fingernails or hair,
Speaker 2: but it's bone and so it's growing with the tortoise.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: And so it's basically like you can age a tortoise
Speaker 2: by looking at the shell and it's got rings on
Speaker 2: each of the scutes, and so it's basically like like
Speaker 2: trying to age a tree.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So each scute, which is like those parquet floor tiles,
Speaker 1: kind of gets a new ring every year. Is that?
Speaker 1: Is that partly because of conditions like in a tree,
Speaker 1: like the rings happen when there's a lot of water
Speaker 1: and growth, exactly, is it?
Speaker 2: So? Yeah, it's sort of seasonal. So it really does
Speaker 2: depend on location. So if you're further north, like the
Speaker 2: gopher tourtist is further north, they are very seasonal. They
Speaker 2: do have a winter. They're disappearing into the burrow during
Speaker 2: the winter. They're not eating for months and they're just
Speaker 2: they're just underground.
Speaker 1: Is there hard like one beat a year?
Speaker 2: Probably?
Speaker 1: It's like the lowest metabolity ever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so why they live so long?
Speaker 1: Ps. Not only is next week's episode about sea turtles
Speaker 1: aka turtles, but you'll want to hold onto your butts,
Speaker 1: my friends, because in researching how turtles gets how old
Speaker 1: I came across an ology called biogerontology, and the best
Speaker 1: biogerontologist in the world, doctor Caleb Finch, is based in
Speaker 1: La hot Damn. Yes, we recorded an episode on aging,
Speaker 1: so stay tuned for that the week after. Sea turtles. Also,
Speaker 1: the material tortoise shell, which has been banned in many places,
Speaker 1: was most commonly made made from skewts of the hawks
Speaker 1: bill turtles, which are sea turtles and not tortoises. So
Speaker 1: not only does it mean but it's also factually incorrect
Speaker 1: a lot of the time. Okay, back to tortoise shells,
Speaker 1: which are the spine in the ribs all fused together
Speaker 1: into a dome that says, don't even try to touch me,
Speaker 1: you jerks. And so they have a ribs that are
Speaker 1: fused to the bone of their shell. Correct, And then
Speaker 1: what else is kind of guts they got?
Speaker 2: Everything is just under under that shell?
Speaker 1: Are what kind of do they have crazy hearts or
Speaker 1: do they have like like is there reproductive system indoor outdoor?
Speaker 1: What kind of plumbing is happening?
Speaker 2: So with them with this is for tortoises, you can
Speaker 2: flip them over and they're at the bottom their belly.
Speaker 2: The bottom part of the shell is called a plaston,
Speaker 2: So you look at the plaston and that's probably the
Speaker 2: best way to tell. So male is going to be
Speaker 2: it's going to have a dip. Oh, and then the
Speaker 2: female's going to be flat. Okay, so the male's just
Speaker 2: just got a concave so you can fit on top
Speaker 2: of the female.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, got it. Yeah, like nesting bowls exactly. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't ask this so early on, but I'm.
Speaker 2: Just I'm ready for this question. I think I know
Speaker 2: what's coming.
Speaker 1: Do they have crazy dicks or what? Okay, I'm so happy.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy right now. I feel like I saw
Speaker 1: someone trying to send me a video of like a
Speaker 1: turtle making love to a shoe, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what what is that? And I I don't understand what's happening?
Speaker 1: What is it? By the way, those noises were from
Speaker 1: a turtle making love to a Crocs shoe in a
Speaker 1: YouTube video entitled a turtle makes Love to a Crocs shoe,
Speaker 1: so cursory search returns were almost too copious, also including
Speaker 1: other hits such as turtle makes love to a sneaker,
Speaker 1: turtle sex with a shoe, and another involving a brief
Speaker 1: but impassioned romance with a rollerblade. Now, if you need
Speaker 1: a vision for this part of turtle anatomy, oh boy,
Speaker 1: think of an articuoe cart but long stemmed and stripped
Speaker 1: of all the leaves, but alive and throbbing. Uh it's
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, no, that's because I still look at it
Speaker 2: and I'm like what, So it's They're incredible. I mean, okay,
Speaker 2: all right, let's start from from day one.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Quite often when we're doing research with them, we have
Speaker 2: to mark them, we have to weigh them, measure them,
Speaker 2: and so they will they will expose for us. I
Speaker 2: think it might just be like just displacement, just kind
Speaker 2: of I don't. I think they are just uncomfortable and
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: They're like, I'm uncomfortable, this is awkward. What would help
Speaker 1: a boner? So they display as a greeting.
Speaker 2: Yes, and so.
Speaker 1: Yeah there.
Speaker 2: Their dicks are massive, they can be. They are huge,
Speaker 2: and they have to be big because you know, the
Speaker 2: shell gets in the way. It's just hard to acces.
Speaker 2: The females makes it hard. So they need to they
Speaker 2: need to be big. But it can be up to
Speaker 2: like half the size of like their shell.
Speaker 1: Oh my god? What yeah? Is it all stored inside?
Speaker 2: It's just it's like, so what happens is when it
Speaker 2: retracts inside the kouga, it's just it it like lays
Speaker 2: on top of itself.
Speaker 1: And then they whip it out and.
Speaker 2: Then whip it out, and then they have tortoises. So
Speaker 2: it's different for it doesn't it's different for species. So
Speaker 2: with tortoises, it's so strange. It looks like a flower.
Speaker 1: That's what I thought. I was like a pancake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's very odd.
Speaker 1: But that what what it's How does that behoove them?
Speaker 1: I mean, because that's got to be more than just distance.
Speaker 1: Why a hockey puck on a stem?
Speaker 2: Or? Like?
Speaker 1: Why why a weird inverted mushroom? Like what is it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm not sure. I'm honestly not sure how that
Speaker 2: evolved because it's different for different species. So like the
Speaker 2: soft shell turtles, they have five lobes, so there is
Speaker 2: even more crazy looking and I'm not sure why they
Speaker 2: need that.
Speaker 1: Of course I look this up and yes, it has
Speaker 1: five lobes with like, let's just say four nozzles and
Speaker 1: the textbook line drawing I saw looked kind of like
Speaker 1: an abstract outline of an orchid, which is fine, but
Speaker 1: then you imagine it alive and greenish purple, and you
Speaker 1: know what, let's actually let's not do that. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: get just back to the romance of it. Do they
Speaker 1: meet for life? Are they friends for a long time
Speaker 1: or is it just like I'll see you next you.
Speaker 2: Say, so, we don't. I don't think we really know
Speaker 2: the answer to that they do. What we do know
Speaker 2: is that they have you know, we always think of
Speaker 2: tortoises as just being solitary animals and not having friends
Speaker 2: or talking, you know, not you know, with anybody, That's
Speaker 2: really not the case. Really you have found as far
Speaker 2: as like studies with gopher tortoises go, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: it applies for you know, other North American tortoises. But
Speaker 2: they have clicks, they have like these Yeah, just they
Speaker 2: have friends. I don't know if I don't know if
Speaker 2: we can call them friends. But what's what we have
Speaker 2: found is that the females will travel to like hang
Speaker 2: out with other females. So yeah, we do. It's but
Speaker 2: the interesting part is that you know, they they're not
Speaker 2: just hanging out with any with any other female. They're
Speaker 2: visiting the same ones, and so they might travel farther
Speaker 2: to go see a female. But maybe, I don't know,
Speaker 2: perhaps they connect with them. I'm not really sure what's
Speaker 2: going on there, but they're you know, if there's a
Speaker 2: female directly next door, they're not they might not like her.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what's going on.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm pretty sure what's going on is that these
Speaker 1: turtles have friends. They're either friends or they're drug dealers
Speaker 1: popping by the burrows, and so same with same with males.
Speaker 2: Uh no, I don't think that that's anything that they saw.
Speaker 2: So males are visiting females, but they if there's another
Speaker 2: male around, they're pretty territorial, so they're probably they're not
Speaker 2: really they're not hanging out with other guys.
Speaker 1: Who's digging all these burrows?
Speaker 2: Everybody?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they all have their own. They all have like
Speaker 2: their own and maybe a couple, maybe a summer home
Speaker 2: in a winter home. Oh so yeah, they might have
Speaker 2: more than one.
Speaker 1: And they they might go in their ten twelve feet
Speaker 1: stay there on their own, and then come out during
Speaker 1: the daytime.
Speaker 2: Mostly Yeah, so they spend like probably over eighty percent
Speaker 2: of their time underground. They come out to meet another
Speaker 2: tortoise that is hanging out. So I'll see the males
Speaker 2: will they work so hard, they are going from burrow
Speaker 2: to burrow, female to female and they will bother their
Speaker 2: head and try and get her to come out of
Speaker 2: her burrow. And this happens all day long.
Speaker 1: So like horny politicians canvassing so terrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel bad for the females because they're just
Speaker 2: like if they don't if they don't want anything to
Speaker 2: do with him, it's just like they can't come out.
Speaker 2: They're just stuck in. But at least they have a
Speaker 2: good escape. So even if they're out of the barrow
Speaker 2: and they're grazing and they don't want anything to do
Speaker 2: with a mail, they'll just they'll take off and head
Speaker 2: back to a burrow and knock them off. And then
Speaker 2: is this.
Speaker 1: All year round or are they seasonally horriby?
Speaker 2: So well, I really I believe that if if it
Speaker 2: wasn't cold, it would be all year round. So in
Speaker 2: South Florida where I'm working right now, they're at least
Speaker 2: courting all year round. So I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: think we really know beyond that. But they are courting,
Speaker 2: so I don't know if they're double nesting. We're not
Speaker 2: really sure what's going on there.
Speaker 1: So from what I understand, double nesting means having another
Speaker 1: nest in the same breeding season, kind of like when
Speaker 1: you find out that your grandpa has a second family
Speaker 1: he hit for decades, except it's your mom and it's
Speaker 1: a bunch of siblings. Also, okay, let's get back to
Speaker 1: the nomenclature because this still feels a little murky, kind
Speaker 1: of like swamp water to me. Okay, turtle versus tortoise.
Speaker 1: So turtles are partially aquatic, like they'll go dip into
Speaker 1: a pond for a bit, come back up. What's there?
Speaker 2: Well, it de pounds in what we're talking about. If
Speaker 2: we want to talk about like box turtles, they are
Speaker 2: mostly land turtles, but they're not a tortoise.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, man, break this down for me, break it down.
Speaker 1: I don't get it. So why they're mostly land but
Speaker 1: they're a little bit aquatic. Is that the difference or
Speaker 1: is it just because their legs go out more than
Speaker 1: they go down.
Speaker 2: They're still like near water, they just aren't very good swimmers.
Speaker 2: So they'll still hang out in water, so like in
Speaker 2: shallow areas, but they're not really swimming very well. If
Speaker 2: you were to look at like a slider or a
Speaker 2: couiter or something like that.
Speaker 1: Does that disqualify them from being a tortoise because sometimes
Speaker 1: they take a dip.
Speaker 2: I think it really comes down to how closely related
Speaker 2: they are.
Speaker 1: Oh, that makes some sense. There's some actual like evolutionary lineage. Well,
Speaker 1: talk to me a little bit about the evolution of
Speaker 1: turtles and tortoises, because I know that a lot of
Speaker 1: people are hung up. Did they outlaud the dinosaurs? When
Speaker 1: did the planet develop turtles? When did they split off
Speaker 1: into sea turtles and tortoises? Can you walk me through
Speaker 1: some of that?
Speaker 2: I can try, Okay, So I don't think we really
Speaker 2: have solid answers for any of that. But the theory,
Speaker 2: one theory is that the link to turtles was a
Speaker 2: lizard that I think it's called the untosaurus. It's a
Speaker 2: stout lizard, short legs, kind of like a tortoise body,
Speaker 2: but without the shell. There were burrowers, and there were
Speaker 2: I guess a little bit slower just their build and
Speaker 2: then from there there was a turtle that didn't have
Speaker 2: a shell, but it had like a plaston. So the
Speaker 2: plaston is the bottom part of the shell, the belly,
Speaker 2: but it didn't have a full shell.
Speaker 1: The benefit of the shell is protection mostly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure that that's why it evolved. It
Speaker 2: might have been for digging.
Speaker 1: That was my other question. Is this like a because
Speaker 1: if they make their burrow in the shape of themselves,
Speaker 1: is it just like a kind of a cool bore
Speaker 1: into a mountain or is it more like, hey, i'm withdrawing,
Speaker 1: please do not bother me.
Speaker 2: We don't know. So it could have been that it
Speaker 2: was for for burrowing, for digging, and then it sort
Speaker 2: of just ended up being like a form of protection.
Speaker 1: So up until a few years ago, we thought turtles
Speaker 1: went back about two hundred and twenty million years until
Speaker 1: a paper came out in twenty sixteen about this two
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty million year old lizard in South Africa
Speaker 1: that developed a shell. Scientists believe for the purpose just
Speaker 1: a burrowing. The protection just a bonus, kind of like
Speaker 1: a shovel that you're like, oh, hey, look at that.
Speaker 1: I could also use it as a shield ps. The
Speaker 1: person who discovered the proto turtle fossil was then eight
Speaker 1: year old Coba Snyman and also just to hammer this home.
Speaker 1: So turtles include tortoises and see turtles and terrapins, which
Speaker 1: are smallish turtles that live in fresh or brackish water.
Speaker 1: Although in the UK turtles mean water piles tortoises mean
Speaker 1: land friends. So it's kind of regional. Where do turtles
Speaker 1: and tortoises sleep at night?
Speaker 2: Well, it depends on the species.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Tortoises like the gopher tortoises are native to the coastal
Speaker 2: plains of the United States, and so they're using burrows.
Speaker 2: They're going to be underground. The other North American species,
Speaker 2: like the desert tortoise out here, they are hiding out
Speaker 2: under it. They some of them do have short burrows,
Speaker 2: and they're also higging out like under rocks or things
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Why are they so goddamn cute? I know, what is
Speaker 1: it about a turtle? Like who doesn't trust a turtle?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Okay, I will amend
Speaker 1: that because I did see a picture of an alligator
Speaker 1: turtle and I was like, oh my.
Speaker 2: God, oh my god, I love Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is the is like this thing has a hell mouth.
Speaker 1: What's happening with it?
Speaker 2: It is terrifying.
Speaker 1: So side note, Okay, the alligator turtle is not a tortoise,
Speaker 1: but it is a nightmare. So imagine a stout turtle,
Speaker 1: the largest ever recorded, is said to have tip the
Speaker 1: scales at over four hundred pounds, and it has three
Speaker 1: ridges along its back like giant punk rock studs. And
Speaker 1: then its mouth, Oh it's mouth, y'all? Okay, a spiky
Speaker 1: beak that could crush bones and a little wormy dew
Speaker 1: hicky dingle dangle on its tongue that lures a live
Speaker 1: fish into its mouth. These things look like if the
Speaker 1: biggest dude on the football team had anger issues and
Speaker 1: also a falcon beak and was made out of wet kelp.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Do they have them in Florida? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Really, but they're like they're like like very like northern Florida.
Speaker 1: Okay, they're I did a little bit of research for
Speaker 1: them for the Food and the Apology episode. We talked
Speaker 1: about turtle soup and they talked about like a hating
Speaker 1: a lie, and so I looked it up and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, what is that? That looks
Speaker 1: like God's dingleberry. Get it out of here? What is it?
Speaker 1: What is it? But other turtles are so adorable they
Speaker 1: are Now how big can turtles get?
Speaker 2: Well, if we're talking about tortoises, there's the Galapaghost tortoise,
Speaker 2: which is the largest.
Speaker 1: Oh is it the largest?
Speaker 2: I think? I believe you, And then the aldabra and
Speaker 2: then the African silkata. So like the three largest that
Speaker 2: are extant that are living today.
Speaker 1: While turtles can reach two thousand pounds, the biggest tortoise
Speaker 1: ever recorded, it seems, was a fellow named Goliath, who
Speaker 1: weighed over nine hundred pounds, but passed away in two
Speaker 1: thousand and two. Also dead lonesome George, a Pinta Island
Speaker 1: Galapagos turtle who was the last of species and the
Speaker 1: longtime George Clooney of tortoises, eligible but single. Lonesome George,
Speaker 1: despite trying, sadly never produced any offspring, passed away in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve of natural causes. He was found by his
Speaker 1: keeper of over forty years, Fausto Urana Sanchez, who's a
Speaker 1: park ranger who retired not long after George's death, and
Speaker 1: he said, I feel like I've lost a best friend.
Speaker 1: There's a void and there's a sorrow, especially when I
Speaker 1: see the photos. In my heart, I'm not convinced he's dead,
Speaker 1: but he's dead. I mean he was taxidermaid and put
Speaker 1: in a museum, so he's pretty dead. Now alive and
Speaker 1: perhaps the oldest living land animal is a tortoise named Jonathan,
Speaker 1: who has double cataracts but a pretty good sense of
Speaker 1: hearing at one hundred and eighty seven years old. One
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty seven years old. Yes, you heard that right.
Speaker 1: Do turtles have ears? What's the deal?
Speaker 2: Oh? Wow, so they? I wouldn't call him ears, Okay,
Speaker 2: what is the term for it?
Speaker 1: They are called nubbins.
Speaker 2: Call it?
Speaker 1: You will call him nubbs.
Speaker 2: Okay. It's mostly through vibration, is how they're hearing.
Speaker 1: Or it's true.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're not seeing an ear.
Speaker 1: If you were to whisper to a turtle, how much
Speaker 1: you liked it, do you think it could hear you?
Speaker 2: I I don't know, Okay, all right, I looked it
Speaker 2: up and they are not sadly called nubbins, but rather tympanums,
Speaker 2: which is a disc membrane at the back of the face.
Speaker 1: Now, could a turtle hear you if you whispered how
Speaker 1: much you love it? I looked into it, and probably so.
Speaker 1: In one paper that lamented the lack of auditory knowledge
Speaker 1: of turtles, I did find that what is known is
Speaker 1: that turtles have a higher hearing threshold than other reptiles,
Speaker 1: with best frequencies heard around five hundred hertz. Now, according
Speaker 1: to Satloff's Comprehensive Textbook of Autoleryngology, it is noticed that
Speaker 1: a noise band for whispers begins at five hundred hertz. So, yes,
Speaker 1: whisper your love at your tortoises.
Speaker 2: If you have tortoises, I know that, like with my tortoise.
Speaker 1: He wait a second, Oh god, you have a tortoise. Okay,
Speaker 1: oh my god, wait what this was a huge revelation.
Speaker 1: So you're a tortoise owner.
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 1: You're a tortoise lord. That's exciting. Who is he? Is
Speaker 1: he a boy or a girl?
Speaker 2: A boy?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: His name is Banchie?
Speaker 1: His name is Banchie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I named him when I was seven.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, he's so old. He's well, you're so young.
Speaker 1: How did you obtain him?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's a terrible story. So, and I
Speaker 2: don't encourage it. Okay, this is why I don't really
Speaker 2: talk about him. Okay, I'm actually it's.
Speaker 1: A good it's is it a cautionary tale?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you buy him on the black market? No?
Speaker 2: Okay, I did get him from a pet store.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, okay, So I was a little girl seven,
Speaker 2: I don't really remember, it's probably like around ten, and
Speaker 2: I was like, Dad, I really want a tortoise, like
Speaker 2: I begged my father tortoise. Oh yes, And so he
Speaker 2: was like on board of it because he's like it
Speaker 2: seems like a animal, like take care of No big deal.
Speaker 2: So we went to the pet store. I picked out
Speaker 2: a tortoise. It was relatively large, but I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't want to say large. He was probably like he
Speaker 2: was probably like three years old. He was like like
Speaker 2: probably like five inches big, which is pretty small.
Speaker 1: And so he was already he wasn't like a tiny
Speaker 1: quarter sized tortoise. He was already doing a thing. He
Speaker 1: probably had like a routine of personality. He had a thing.
Speaker 1: And so you took him home and you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: a tortoise owner. Were you did?
Speaker 2: You came? Like what I got? And oh my God,
Speaker 2: she freaked. Really she started she was like, what is that?
Speaker 2: And she got on the computer and started like looking
Speaker 2: up like Africans look at a tortoise, and she's like,
Speaker 2: she freaked out of my dad.
Speaker 1: So these get large.
Speaker 2: They get huge, huge, and they live forever. So she's
Speaker 2: like doing her research and she like freaked out of
Speaker 2: my dad, and she's like, what are we doing. We
Speaker 2: just adopted in the thing that's going to like outlive
Speaker 2: our daughter. And so we they we just we did it.
Speaker 1: They did it.
Speaker 2: They wanted to keep him. We all fell in love
Speaker 2: with him, and he's he's definitely been a part of
Speaker 2: the family for you know, for like much of my life.
Speaker 1: How big is he?
Speaker 2: He is probably about one hundred and twenty five pounds.
Speaker 2: Wait a second, I feel like he's still growing. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but I really hope he is not.
Speaker 1: Wait, how big is that?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Is it the size of a coffee table? Half the
Speaker 1: size of coffee table?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean she looked down at my coffee table, a
Speaker 1: wooden slab that is fifty one inches long. I measured
Speaker 1: it later.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm looking at your coffee table. Okay, I'm thinking three.
Speaker 1: Quarters Oh my God, that's a huge probably maybe half okay,
Speaker 1: so we're talking more than half. We're talking like the
Speaker 1: size of like a cafe table. Yeah, he's a huge tortoise.
Speaker 2: He's pretty big. Where does he live in my backyard?
Speaker 2: What does he deals with my parents? Still?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: He eats hey, okay, grass, he grazes. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: an easy pet though. So he has a pretty good
Speaker 2: like space, but he needs a lot of space. And
Speaker 2: then we have to consider you know, a burrow and
Speaker 2: enrichment and you know, how to keep him happy and healthy.
Speaker 2: And it's a lot of work.
Speaker 1: And how have things changed when it comes to turtle
Speaker 1: ownership in the last couple of decades do you think.
Speaker 2: They like there's definitely more information, Like when we first
Speaker 2: got him, there wasn't a whole lot. There wasn't like
Speaker 2: it was like you're fine feeding him fruit and vegetables
Speaker 2: from your fridge, you know, and it's not it's not okay.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot more information, for sure, And I
Speaker 2: do think that people are you know, understanding as far
Speaker 2: as like enrichment and how to take care of them.
Speaker 2: But there's still a lot that's unanswered and we're still
Speaker 2: figuring out a lot.
Speaker 1: So do you think that having Banshie, do you think
Speaker 1: that he informed kind of your interest in turtles or
Speaker 1: do you think that he predated it because you already
Speaker 1: wanted a tortoise.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not really sure why I wanted him.
Speaker 2: I don't know why that why I was so intrigued.
Speaker 2: It made me feel like I needed to get more involved.
Speaker 2: He's my pet, and I kind of feel bad owning
Speaker 2: him because I look at him, and now that I'm
Speaker 2: working with wildlife, I'm like, man, like, this is what
Speaker 2: you're missing out of. It's sort of difficult to to
Speaker 2: think about him not being able to live that kind
Speaker 2: of life like a lot of wild tortoises.
Speaker 1: You mean like getting it on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look at it. I mean, it's just
Speaker 2: it happens all day long, right, it does.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe it's something like being homeschooled, Like there are
Speaker 1: benefits you don't have to deal with bullies, you don't
Speaker 1: have to deal with anyone throwing a milk carton at you,
Speaker 1: but you also miss out on like that's some weird shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, I do think that that they
Speaker 2: can live a good life in captivity. Although I don't
Speaker 2: think it's ideal necessarily, So I think that there are
Speaker 2: good owners and and people do take you know, they
Speaker 2: love their tortoises in the turtles, but it it's hard,
Speaker 2: and I think it's like before you go into trying
Speaker 2: to get a tortoise and deciding to adopt one, there's
Speaker 2: a couple of things you need to look at. You
Speaker 2: need to make sure that you have a backup plan.
Speaker 2: Who's going to take care of this animal when you're gone?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, isn't it crazy that when you write
Speaker 1: a will, and you're probably too young to have done so,
Speaker 1: you have to include something about Banshee and your will.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's terrifying. I'm like, I don't I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't even have kids. Like, where is this tortoise
Speaker 2: going to go? It's very scary. And even now I'm
Speaker 2: still you know, he's still with my parents. I don't
Speaker 2: have a house. I don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: And so that's where before you get an animal like this,
Speaker 2: you really have to be you know, know where you are,
Speaker 2: Are you settled? Are you settled down? And yeah, it's
Speaker 2: and then you know what's going to happen when you're gone.
Speaker 1: To google it? Yeah, get and do it.
Speaker 2: Yes, and also know where it's coming from because the
Speaker 2: you know, the pet trade can be pretty hard on wildlife.
Speaker 2: It's not good for wildlife. So no, you know, definitely
Speaker 2: know where the animal is coming from. Right.
Speaker 1: You hear those stories about dudes that like get through
Speaker 1: TSA with parakeets in their pants. It's so terrible, I know,
Speaker 1: but it's also like, man, there's got to be a
Speaker 1: better way to make a living.
Speaker 2: No kidding, I'm putting like.
Speaker 1: Snakes in your pants. I'm a flag. And so when
Speaker 1: it comes to age and turtles and tortoises, because obviously
Speaker 1: banshee is going to live to be one million years old. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but why do they live so long? I mean I
Speaker 1: read I saw this thing online about a turtle and
Speaker 1: her one she was one hundred and forty years old
Speaker 1: and her newborn baby turtle, and I was like, they
Speaker 1: just keep going And can I mention being one hundred
Speaker 1: and forty years old and you're like, here's my infant son.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Like what's happening with them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that falls into they have a really slow metabolism.
Speaker 2: So if you think about like a hummingbird that's going
Speaker 2: one thousand miles a minute, I don't really know how
Speaker 2: fast they go, but a hummingbird probably isn't going to
Speaker 2: last more than a couple of years. Yeah, same with
Speaker 2: little mice is exactly really high metabolism.
Speaker 1: I think that the President of the United States uses
Speaker 1: this argument to avoid exercise because he thinks that you
Speaker 1: only have a certain number of heartbeats per lifetime.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's not okay, Yeah, I think they continue
Speaker 2: doing your exercise.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he thinks that you have a finite number,
Speaker 1: and that's like why he's not super active. I'm going
Speaker 1: to fact check this just so that nobody just thinks
Speaker 1: that I'm shit talking. This is gonna be this is
Speaker 1: just going to be bolstered.
Speaker 2: In fact, other than golf, he considers exercise misguided, arguing
Speaker 2: that a person, like a battery, is born with a
Speaker 2: finite amount of energy.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So moving on. Why are they so
Speaker 1: damn slow?
Speaker 2: Their shell The shell just doesn't give them. It's heavy
Speaker 2: in the way, and so they yeah, they really can't.
Speaker 2: I really don't think that they'd be so slow if
Speaker 2: they didn't have the shell. I mean, I've seen there
Speaker 2: are tortoises that I they're slow, but really like they
Speaker 2: can be fast when they want to.
Speaker 1: They can book it.
Speaker 2: They can book it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I posted a video of a gopher tortois on Twitter.
Speaker 2: This is like, I don't know, probably a year ago,
Speaker 2: and she saw me on a trail and she got
Speaker 2: freaked out, but her burrow was actually closer to me,
Speaker 2: so she booked it towards me.
Speaker 1: Oh but yeah.
Speaker 2: Everybody was intrigued. They were like, I had no idea
Speaker 2: tortoise could run like that.
Speaker 1: And then what's the biggest myth about turtles that you're
Speaker 1: just over?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's the old man. Maybe the old man.
Speaker 1: Liked they look like Grandpa's. Yeah, but they have different
Speaker 1: personalities turtle.
Speaker 2: They really do. Oh my gosh, even in the field
Speaker 2: with biold animals. When I get to work out in
Speaker 2: the field sites with them, I feel like I can
Speaker 2: I can definitely identify some of them that I see
Speaker 2: that I come across like frequently, just based on their personality.
Speaker 2: So we have let me tell you, Okay, this girl,
Speaker 2: she's my favorite tortoise. Her name is Grumpy Gertrude.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love her already.
Speaker 2: So we when I would enter the field site, my
Speaker 2: advisor was the one who introduced me to her. But
Speaker 2: she would beat her burrows, like right at the entrance
Speaker 2: of the field site, and so when you come in,
Speaker 2: she would just like she would defend her territory. So
Speaker 2: anybody that came in, she'd come out bobbing her head,
Speaker 2: which is a sign of defense, and just trying like
Speaker 2: she was away. And so she's just very territorial. She's
Speaker 2: really aggressive. I have a video of her attacking my camera.
Speaker 2: But then there's other moments too where she's very very tolerant.
Speaker 2: So I was at a different burrow and she came out.
Speaker 2: I was working with another tortoise. She decided to saw me,
Speaker 2: so she came out of her borough. She doesn't want
Speaker 2: to check stuff out. She wasn't defensive because it wasn't
Speaker 2: her territory. So she came out and she like walked
Speaker 2: all over my gear. She's just she's very curious. She's
Speaker 2: also very defensive. And then there's others that are really shy.
Speaker 2: You'll handle them or take them out, and they're not
Speaker 2: They will not come out of their shell. So yeah,
Speaker 2: there's there's definitely personality.
Speaker 1: And can they they can get all the way in
Speaker 1: them so that they're just like I'm a rock bitch.
Speaker 1: H Yeah, but some like sea turtles can't do that correct, Okay,
Speaker 1: but all other turtles and tortoises can be completely like
Speaker 1: close to gone fishing. So she says, it's soft shell turtles,
Speaker 1: which are not tortoises or turtles, but are aquatic turtles
Speaker 1: who look kind of like a rubbery pancake made out
Speaker 1: of mud. They'll also flippityflop about without tucking in their legs.
Speaker 1: Now getting back to tortoises though, and what does your
Speaker 1: fieldwork usually involve? Like, can you take me through like
Speaker 1: a really quick like day in the life of a man.
Speaker 2: I love my field work, so it's hot and muggy.
Speaker 2: It's Florida South Florida scrub habitat, so there's no shade.
Speaker 2: I it depends on what I'm doing. So if I'm
Speaker 2: looking for insects, I am serving burrows, so I usually
Speaker 2: go in with a camera scope and I can get
Speaker 2: a view of like what's inside the burrow, can measure
Speaker 2: it in that sense too. Sometimes I see stuff with
Speaker 2: a camera sometimes I'll see snakes, sometimes I'll see frogs.
Speaker 2: It's really cool. And then from there, I'll like try
Speaker 2: and look for insects. So I'm like taking a big
Speaker 2: two meters scoop and like scooping out sand and sifting
Speaker 2: through it, catching flies that are flying around. And now
Speaker 2: you know, I'll go out with a black light and
Speaker 2: black light the burrows to look for their specific like
Speaker 2: burrow moss that live in the They also eat shit.
Speaker 1: Just cool, But you're trying to figure out, okay, with
Speaker 1: these gopher tortoises, who is eating their shit? We have
Speaker 1: to find out how many species are would be affected
Speaker 1: if these gopher tortoises were wiped exactly right. Why are
Speaker 1: they getting so wiped?
Speaker 2: Cars, cars, habitat loss.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're making too many malls.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, they're just they're being pushed out. So it's
Speaker 2: really sad to see, especially in South Florida where there's
Speaker 2: just really high pressure to develop and so they're just
Speaker 2: constantly being relocated, the tortoises, and so they're getting relocated,
Speaker 2: but a lot of the other animals are getting left behind.
Speaker 1: No, So that's so that research is important to protect them.
Speaker 1: What kind of measures are being taken right now to protectses.
Speaker 2: Well, it's no longer. I mean in the past you
Speaker 2: could basically just build on top of them. You can't
Speaker 2: cover the burrows.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, like a mausoleum. Yeah, that's so awful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how long would they be living under there?
Speaker 2: Probably months that they can deal with like very little oxygen,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, they would just be underground.
Speaker 1: And so we're not doing that.
Speaker 2: We're not doing that anymore. So you do have to
Speaker 2: get a permit if you want to. And there's tortoises
Speaker 2: on the land and so now they get relocated. There's
Speaker 2: a lot that goes into it, though, So they have
Speaker 2: to get relocated. But you can't just dump them a
Speaker 2: you know, another site. They're so specific to like the area.
Speaker 2: Like imagine being you know, sixty years old and living
Speaker 2: in the same area and then getting relocated, and so
Speaker 2: they you know, if they're just put somewhere else, they're
Speaker 2: going to continue looking for like their home, and so
Speaker 2: they Yeah, so you really can't just like take them
Speaker 2: somewhere else, and so it has to there has to
Speaker 2: be what's called a soft release, and so they set
Speaker 2: up like pens and they have to basically keep them
Speaker 2: in these pens for one or two years, and they're yeah,
Speaker 2: they have to like kind of just get acquainted to
Speaker 2: their new home and then.
Speaker 1: Start like kind of give up and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess I live here.
Speaker 2: This is it. Yeah, So then those pens like eventually
Speaker 2: they can be taken out and they can be able
Speaker 2: to like go out into the tortoist population. But yeah,
Speaker 2: oh so it's a process.
Speaker 1: It's not just like yeah, yeah, oh, are there any
Speaker 1: movies about turtles or tortoises that you love or hate?
Speaker 2: You know, Ninja Turtles is like probably like the only
Speaker 2: one that really comes to mind, either burrows or sewers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't realize how accurate that was so true,
Speaker 1: because those really are long tunnels.
Speaker 2: They are.
Speaker 1: Who knew that was factual? The pizza's factual, right, definitely? Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: the backflips actual? Okay, Patreon questions you ready for some
Speaker 1: lightning round?
Speaker 2: I am ready for this.
Speaker 1: People love turtles. Excited people love turtles.
Speaker 2: I like turtles.
Speaker 1: So before we get to the Patreon questions, however, quick
Speaker 1: break to tell you a word about this week's charity,
Speaker 1: who is getting a donation from the ologies community. So
Speaker 1: Amanda chows the nonprofit Alongside Wildlife Foundation dot org, which
Speaker 1: is a five oh one c three nonprofit supported by
Speaker 1: a grassroots network of people just passionate about wildlife conservation
Speaker 1: and they do research and outreach. They promote science based
Speaker 1: solutions for living alongside wildlife in perpetuity. They even raise
Speaker 1: money to give grants to scientists who can continue doing
Speaker 1: important work with wildlife. So they rock. Thanks for picking them. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's tech to tell you about a sponsor the show
Speaker 1: who makes it possible for us to churn these out
Speaker 1: every week. All right, back to the show. Let's have
Speaker 1: those Patreon questions.
Speaker 2: Please tell me what we've got? A penis question. I
Speaker 2: know we already talked about it.
Speaker 1: Oh of course we did. Okay, Lee Shavis wants to
Speaker 1: know straight out, how did you get your job? I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with turtles and tortoises and I would love to
Speaker 1: do something with them, either professionally or volunteering. How can
Speaker 1: you get up in that turtle world?
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I you know it's hard to say. I
Speaker 2: don't even know how I got this one.
Speaker 1: You're like, how did I get here? How did I
Speaker 1: love it?
Speaker 2: I know, it just sort of just happened again. How
Speaker 2: to get involved so you can look, you know, for
Speaker 2: whatever is in your area, like you know, figure out
Speaker 2: what species are around you and see if you can volunteer.
Speaker 2: There's you know, if you're out west, like here, there's
Speaker 2: a Desert Tortoise Council and there's the Go for Tortoise Council.
Speaker 1: In the East, you got a network turtle people. There's
Speaker 1: turtle Twitter.
Speaker 2: There's definitely there's hashtags.
Speaker 1: Make turtle friends.
Speaker 2: It's so true, and I think that's, you know, that
Speaker 2: is really how ultimately I ended up where I am.
Speaker 2: It's just connections and meeting people with similar interests.
Speaker 1: Make turtle friends. There's turtle clubs. Are you kidding?
Speaker 2: For sure?
Speaker 1: Every city has a turtle and tortoise club.
Speaker 2: I should join one. Why am I not in a
Speaker 2: tortoise club?
Speaker 1: I don't know. You gotta hang with those nerds. I
Speaker 1: looked at the local I looked up the local turtle
Speaker 1: and Tortoise club when I was looking for a good colonialogist.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, So turtle people are out there and
Speaker 1: they're just in a burrow in a shell. You just
Speaker 1: got to get to know us side, don't Leah Shavaz
Speaker 1: I found your address through Patreon, and I looked up
Speaker 1: what's local to you? And I found the Bay Area
Speaker 1: Amphibian and Reptile Society, which is having a meeting on
Speaker 1: January twenty fifth. So for more info you can see
Speaker 1: BAAARS dot org. Everyone else, google your city plus Herpetological Society,
Speaker 1: see what comes up. Make some turtle buds, maybe you
Speaker 1: wear an ology shirt there and find your people. Lacey K.
Speaker 1: Schuer wants to know do turtles that hatch from the
Speaker 1: same nest hang out with each other for a while,
Speaker 1: and if so, how old are they when they go
Speaker 1: off on their own, Like, do they hang for a while,
Speaker 1: do they learn behavior from other turtles or is it
Speaker 1: just like I'm out, they're out.
Speaker 2: So when I was monitoring nests in North Florida, they
Speaker 2: would hatch at another shell and you let them go
Speaker 2: and they would just they would just start digging a burrow,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, or eating, like the second they come out,
Speaker 2: they're just like they're off and they're just living their life.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they're not hanging out with mom, they're not
Speaker 2: hanging out with each other. They're just they're eating and
Speaker 2: then they're trying to find a place to hide.
Speaker 1: God, if only all babies were like that.
Speaker 2: You know, right, then I would have kids, you know, just.
Speaker 1: Poop out a dozen of them and you're likely good life.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, donate each other, Jonathan cus. Have turtles been
Speaker 1: on Earth longer than humans? That answer is.
Speaker 2: Hell, yeah, yeah, much longer.
Speaker 1: Okay, So turtles proto turtles evolved two hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: million years ago and humans scientists say between three hundred
Speaker 1: thousand and one hundred and ninety five thousand years ago.
Speaker 1: It's being debated. Regardless, turtles win and we suck. Austin
Speaker 1: H wants to know how long does the average turtle
Speaker 1: live and what are the most common causes of morbidity?
Speaker 2: Oh well, okay, So tortoises will on average live probably
Speaker 2: about eighty two one hundred and fifty years, depending on
Speaker 2: the species, gopher tortoises, it's like kind of average at sixty.
Speaker 2: But and the the one, the oldest one that we
Speaker 2: know of is in captivity and he's like ninety six.
Speaker 2: We don't really know how old go for tortoises truly get,
Speaker 2: but yeah, probably between sixty and one hundred. The second
Speaker 2: question was they die of what boredom? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What are they dying of? I mean cars?
Speaker 2: Yeah, mostly cars. So yeah, cars are a big or
Speaker 2: a really big problem, a really big problem for all
Speaker 2: turtles and tortoises.
Speaker 1: So what do you do when you see a turtle
Speaker 1: in the road? Have you risked life and limb to get.
Speaker 2: A turtle out of the road. I don't ever recommend
Speaker 2: in your life, but you can help them cross, so
Speaker 2: just make sure it's safe for you to do so.
Speaker 2: I do help them cross all the time, but I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I would not lunge in front of a car, to
Speaker 2: be honest, I do, like my life. It's so common
Speaker 2: in Florida to see them crossing all year round. I
Speaker 2: will like help them cross. It's always a good idea
Speaker 2: to help them cross in the same direction that they're going,
Speaker 2: because they're very stubborn creatures and they know where they
Speaker 2: want to go, So don't try to convince them otherwise.
Speaker 2: Make sure, like, don't try to convince them to go
Speaker 2: somewhere else. Just move them in the direction that they're going.
Speaker 2: But it's pretty easy to move most turtles into You
Speaker 2: can just grab them by the sides and help them cross.
Speaker 2: Snapping turtles are a little different. You have to be right.
Speaker 1: Where are snapping turtles such?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just angry.
Speaker 1: Like maybe something in their disposition just evolved to be
Speaker 1: like listen, I'm real bitchy, I'm real defensive those of
Speaker 1: us with these beaks.
Speaker 2: I can use it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna use it.
Speaker 2: Yeah I would if I had that, I.
Speaker 1: Probably would to No one fucks with someone with a
Speaker 1: beak like that. True, and so you can move them.
Speaker 1: But cars are a big one. Yes, okay, all right,
Speaker 1: So Morgan's Sweet wants to know, other than limit the
Speaker 1: use of off road vehicles, what are some of the
Speaker 1: ways that we can help with tortoise conservation while still
Speaker 1: enjoying our public lands.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of it is supporting legislature, oh voting.
Speaker 1: Kelly Brockington notes that Cuff and Link from Rocky, which
Speaker 1: is now a Creed franchise, are She thinks red stripe racers.
Speaker 1: How long can these guys live? Because apparently the same
Speaker 1: turtles that were in the original Rocky in seventy seven
Speaker 1: were in Creed in twenty seven and twenty seventeen. What
Speaker 1: I don't know there were two turtles that were in Rocky.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm thinking I think she's maybe thinking read or sliders.
Speaker 1: Ready or slide? Oh, red stripe racers.
Speaker 2: That's so close.
Speaker 1: I thought that was a different species. So so yeah,
Speaker 1: these same turtles were in two franchises, so I guess
Speaker 1: they can live for a while.
Speaker 2: Miss. Yeah, they're very old.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they're the most famous turtles.
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's a I would love to know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'll look into it.
Speaker 2: Okay, these are the exotic animals I was telling you about.
Speaker 2: Is my friend's coffin link.
Speaker 1: So these turtles terrapins, if you will, I know, are
Speaker 1: alive and forty four years old. They appear to be
Speaker 1: aging very nicely, or they've just had impeccable work done.
Speaker 1: JCW says, why are there two distinct lineages of turtles,
Speaker 1: the snake necks and the non snake neck turtles?
Speaker 2: Oh, I think he's thinking the side next. So there's
Speaker 2: two lineages. There is the cryptodeira, which is the hidden necks.
Speaker 2: So those are the turtles and tortoises that can pull
Speaker 2: their neck ins out of their shell. And then there's
Speaker 2: the side necks. And that's plural dera. I hope I'm
Speaker 2: saying that's right. And they just they can instead of
Speaker 2: pulling their neck inside there the side neck, so they
Speaker 2: just kind of like turn their head to the side.
Speaker 1: Oh so they just put it under a shelf.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't know that they tuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they tuck. Yeah. As far as like evolving, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure. I'm not sure why.
Speaker 1: Side next side note. So I looked into this and
Speaker 1: apparently there's still a lot of mystery about the side
Speaker 1: neck turtles. But some research came out just this past
Speaker 1: summer that may link the drift of continence to their
Speaker 1: distribution and evolution and may have led to sea turtles.
Speaker 1: I mean, flipper feet, we got shovel hands, retractable heads,
Speaker 1: crazy dongs, turtles. Man live in the life, Ray Ash says,
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of videos when someone thinks they're
Speaker 1: helping a turtle by tossing it in the water when
Speaker 1: it's actually a tortoise.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Ali, this happens all the time.
Speaker 1: Oh no, what's an easy way to tell the difference?
Speaker 1: And should we just leave them alone? They probably know
Speaker 1: what they're doing, unless it's crossing the street. In that case,
Speaker 1: I'll definitely help a brother out. But Ray Kasha, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a depressing question, but we should answer it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a question we should talk about. It's
Speaker 2: a good question.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this happens with gopher tortoises all the time. And
Speaker 2: I can probably imagine tortoises here, desert tortoises. But yeah,
Speaker 2: people confuse them the gopher tortoises. I'm sorry. They will
Speaker 2: sometimes live on the beach. They have like they live
Speaker 2: in the dunes, they have burrows there, and so sometimes
Speaker 2: they'll be taking a walk down the beach and people
Speaker 2: confuse them for sea turtles. Oh, and they'll try they'll
Speaker 2: think that it needs saving, and they'll put it in
Speaker 2: the ocean. And this happens very frequently. So now a
Speaker 2: lot of beaches will have signs where it says like
Speaker 2: please don't touch the tortoises. Oh, first of all, we
Speaker 2: shouldn't be touching them period unless they need help crossing road.
Speaker 2: They don't really need help turtles, especially with the sea turtle,
Speaker 2: you should probably be calling somebody. You shouldn't be touching it.
Speaker 2: So if you see something that needs help, I would
Speaker 2: call you know, FWCR, your local do you know or
Speaker 2: something got it?
Speaker 1: Ps. That's the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or
Speaker 1: the Department of Natural Resources. Now, if you're staring down
Speaker 1: the barrel of a turtle, how do you tell if
Speaker 1: it's a curtle or a tortoise?
Speaker 2: So if you're looking at the limbs, that's probably the
Speaker 2: best way to tell. So tortoises have these like stout,
Speaker 2: muscular limbs. They don't have webbed feet, Okay, so they're
Speaker 2: kind of just more like built for digging. Turtles you'll
Speaker 2: see like there, their limbs have like webbed feet and
Speaker 2: they can swim.
Speaker 1: So one's stumpy, one's webby. Yeah, so little elephant legs
Speaker 1: versus kind of webby, yeah, webby duck leg libs. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I'm a scientist. Let's see. Raquel Nuno wanted us to know,
Speaker 1: can they come out of their shell?
Speaker 2: H see, yeah, these questions are so common. Yeah that's okay, No, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: they can't. Their whole everything's in that shell. They're attached
Speaker 2: to their shell. Their spine is attached to the shell,
Speaker 2: their ribs are attached to the shell.
Speaker 1: So that question was from planetary scientists and selenologist Raquel Nuno,
Speaker 1: who taught us all about the moon and this is
Speaker 1: another wonderful reminder that even the smartest scientists keep asking questions.
Speaker 1: And Amanda says she gets that questions so much because
Speaker 1: of cartoons. And I just did a Google image search
Speaker 1: for a cartoon turtle leaving shell. So many little nude turtles.
Speaker 1: But the reality of a turtle leaving its shell would
Speaker 1: be like us just taking out our spines and hanging
Speaker 1: them up on a co rack. At the end of
Speaker 1: the day, it's nightmare town. Jen Wu says, from my
Speaker 1: husband who loves turtles, which turtle is the best?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Is going to be controversial?
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like, this is a question I don't
Speaker 2: even want to get last night.
Speaker 1: Enemies will be made, alliances will be foraged.
Speaker 2: Will oh my gosh. I And the truth is I
Speaker 2: really don't have a favorite. I feel like my favorite
Speaker 2: is like the last one that I've seen. I feel
Speaker 2: like every time I see one, I'm just like, you're
Speaker 2: my favorite, and then I'll see the next one. Grumpy
Speaker 2: Grumpy Gertrude is definitely, without doubt like my number one.
Speaker 1: Okay, I love that. Right now, somewhere across the country,
Speaker 1: there is a tortoise named Gertrude who's beloved. Sarah Crocker
Speaker 1: wants to know sexually mature at what age?
Speaker 2: Oh, this is a good question. So this also depends
Speaker 2: on species and location. So in South Florida, gopher tortoises
Speaker 2: will mature as soon as like seven because they're not
Speaker 2: having to hibernie. They're not having to you know, stow
Speaker 2: away for the winter, so they're eating all around. They're
Speaker 2: growing a lot faster and am maturing by age seven.
Speaker 2: In the northern part of the range, like Alabama, they
Speaker 2: can take like twenty years to reach sexual maturity. So
Speaker 2: a lot of it is just dependent on location.
Speaker 1: God, that's like sharks. So much puberty, Yes, decades.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's true.
Speaker 1: A slight, slight, hairy mustache and bad skin and uncontrollable
Speaker 1: bonus for decades. Them and sharks, they're like the sucks man.
Speaker 1: Christopher Enberg wants to know would you consider the tortoise
Speaker 1: to be the introvert of the animal kingdom?
Speaker 2: I don't think so, really, I mean maybe, but working
Speaker 2: with gopher tortoises, I really thought differently about it. I
Speaker 2: know that they have these really highly social, high social structures,
Speaker 2: and I don't know if I believe that anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's smart. I think that's good to know.
Speaker 1: They're like, no, I just don't want to talk to you. Maybe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: talked out their turtles though, Jennifer booze. Can they really
Speaker 1: breathe out of their butts? If so, please give all
Speaker 1: the details.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, so this is not something that's usually brought
Speaker 2: up with tortoises. But yeah, some aquatic turtles can have
Speaker 2: oxygen exchange through their butts. So if we want to
Speaker 2: call that breathing, yeah, I guess that's I guess that's
Speaker 2: the case. But it's not happening like breathing through your mouth.
Speaker 2: It's just it's just a oxygen exchange through tissues.
Speaker 1: Does that help them if they're diving or if they're
Speaker 1: in the mud or something? Yeah, okay, just stick your
Speaker 1: butt up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, it's not a snorkel. It's not a snorkle.
Speaker 1: Butt snorkel. Rich Gross says, A long time ago, I
Speaker 1: was an affair where they had a giant turtle and
Speaker 1: allowed people to write it. Oh, how much were they
Speaker 1: hurting the turtle?
Speaker 2: Yeah it's not good, okay.
Speaker 1: Teagan wall I saved the Patreon question that was perhaps
Speaker 1: the most important for last this is doctor Tiaganwall says,
Speaker 1: I've had my turtle, Yurdle for almost twenty five years.
Speaker 1: I know, I've had this turtle for twenty five years.
Speaker 1: Does she love me? Can she love me?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: That's amazing?
Speaker 2: Okay, So the truth is that is that the whole question?
Speaker 2: This whole question, My gosh, I love it, you know, okay,
Speaker 2: uh teag in. Yes, I I would like to believe
Speaker 2: that my tortoise loves me. I don't know if he does.
Speaker 2: I know that he loves to eat, and so when
Speaker 2: I come out with food, he loves me.
Speaker 1: I think they love you. I mean, if they can
Speaker 1: have buddies.
Speaker 2: I do, And I do think that my tortoise recognize
Speaker 2: as individuals. He knows me, and he knows my mom
Speaker 2: because we're the ones that feed him, and so he
Speaker 2: does come to us. He's not gonna like be quite
Speaker 2: as you know, active, like or like wanting to go
Speaker 2: towards a stranger.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they know who you are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he does, of course.
Speaker 1: Okay, shoot, okay, one more Patreon question. He Brown wants
Speaker 1: to know how does their longevity impact their perception of
Speaker 1: time and is that why they seem so chill all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's something that we've never looked at.
Speaker 2: But that is a really interesting question.
Speaker 1: I don't know. If I knew that I didn't have
Speaker 1: to hurry up so much and that I could have
Speaker 1: children at one hundred and fifty years.
Speaker 2: Old, this would be so good for me. I'm such
Speaker 2: a late bloomer that.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's like you wouldn't you could take your
Speaker 1: time on everything?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You kidding? I would. I'm not. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 1: But you're doing stuff. You're getting it, you're getting degrees,
Speaker 1: you're saving gopher tortoises.
Speaker 2: I'm just doing it a little bit later. But I'm
Speaker 2: happy with it. I'm happy.
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like you've fallen into exactly where
Speaker 1: you want to be.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, I've never been happier with my career choice.
Speaker 1: She loves turtles so much she can't even bear to
Speaker 1: shit talk them. This this is to studentological loyalty. What
Speaker 1: is the worst thing about your job, though, or about turtles?
Speaker 1: Do you have any shit you want to talk about turtles?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well no, okay, we can't go there ally, But
Speaker 2: what about your job? I as far as my job,
Speaker 2: I think that we're in a time right now where
Speaker 2: there's so much urban development and habitat loss. It's really
Speaker 2: hard to see all of the habitat loss. There's been
Speaker 2: a couple of times where we've found tortoises at our
Speaker 2: field sites that have been hit by cars, and so
Speaker 2: I think those are probably my worst days. God, I
Speaker 2: bet yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, and do you have burials for them? If I
Speaker 1: may ask, what do you do when you see a
Speaker 1: dead tortoise?
Speaker 2: I actually collect them to what I'm doing right now
Speaker 2: is looking for what's called the it's called a gopher
Speaker 2: tortoise shell moth. Okay, so these moths will feed specifically
Speaker 2: on I'm dead, go over tortoise shells.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, I find your niche exactly bloom
Speaker 1: your planet, man.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm basically taking I do like take the
Speaker 2: carcass and I use the shell to put out in
Speaker 2: my field site and kind of just sit and wait
Speaker 2: for moths to appear. But it hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1: Do tortoises more and other tortoises do they have bigs?
Speaker 1: Tiny brains?
Speaker 2: Pretty, they're pretty small. They have very small brains. I
Speaker 2: don't I don't know there hasn't been any anything recorded
Speaker 2: where where tortoises are morning, so I'm not really sure,
Speaker 2: but I do wonder. I mean, it does make me
Speaker 2: wonder because they do have the structure, these social structures,
Speaker 2: and so I do wonder, like, who is missing you?
Speaker 2: Who's like trying to go to your burrow now and
Speaker 2: you're not coming back?
Speaker 1: I know, I wonder if they ever try to scoot
Speaker 1: them into their burrow like a mausoleum. I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I've oh, final resting spot,
Speaker 1: turtle death. Who I'm gutted. What is your favorite thing
Speaker 1: about turtles or your job?
Speaker 2: Oh? My favorite thing about my job is the people
Speaker 2: that I've met, even just like being on social media
Speaker 2: and just kind of connecting with people that have similar
Speaker 2: interests even if they're not on the same field, has
Speaker 2: been so much fun. I think that's definitely like my
Speaker 2: favorite part.
Speaker 1: Yeah, turtle twitter, turtle twitter, get into it. Yes, I
Speaker 1: feel like if you if turtles give you butterflies, you've
Speaker 1: got to get up and find your people. You've got
Speaker 1: to find your turtle people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, I mean, it took me so
Speaker 2: long to get to this point, to really be like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, this is where I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 1: But it's about turtles, so it's supposed to take you
Speaker 1: forever exactly. You're not studying hairs, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It's so true.
Speaker 1: Do you hate the tortoise and the hair? Are you
Speaker 1: like lay off the turtles? Yeah? I mean, even though
Speaker 1: the tortoise ends up being the protagonist.
Speaker 2: When I mean, I don't really hate it. It's fine,
Speaker 2: it's just a bable. I did get a video once
Speaker 2: of a it was on a camera trap of a
Speaker 2: contail rabbit that was living with tortoise in the burrow.
Speaker 2: And I have so many videos of him just like
Speaker 2: chilling and hanging out. And there was like one where
Speaker 2: he came over and the bunny kind of like got
Speaker 2: up into like the torus's face just to like sniff it.
Speaker 2: It was so cute.
Speaker 1: Were they friends?
Speaker 2: I don't think the tortos gave two shits about the rabbit.
Speaker 1: How long did they kick it together?
Speaker 2: He was he was hanging out for like probably two
Speaker 2: or three weeks.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god. Has that gone viral
Speaker 1: on the dodo yet or something like?
Speaker 2: I actould like post it? I mean I think I
Speaker 2: posted it on Instagram.
Speaker 1: But it's like the best wrap beef buried ever, like
Speaker 1: actually burrowed. I very highly recommend following Amanda on Instagram
Speaker 1: and or Twitter. You got videos of tortoises, field work photos,
Speaker 1: and also follow her hashtag shit bugs for updates on
Speaker 1: the dung gobbling burrow mates she's studying, as well as video.
Speaker 1: It is about grumpy Gertrude, tortoises and hairs just kicking
Speaker 1: it and where can people find you?
Speaker 2: I'm on Instagram as biophilia Amanda Twitter.
Speaker 1: Nice consistent handles, yes, dope, man make things so easy.
Speaker 1: Get try to get the same handles man, hoof. You
Speaker 1: gotta get in early, even if you got to put
Speaker 1: an underscore.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I changed mind so many times too,
Speaker 2: but I'm sort like this is this is it?
Speaker 1: Well? Thank you for all of the work that you
Speaker 1: do protecting the turtles.
Speaker 2: Gosh, I love it. Thank you for having.
Speaker 1: Me so ask fast brained people's slow bodied questions because
Speaker 1: they didn't know the answers at one point, and also
Speaker 1: they love answering them. I promise they do. The links
Speaker 1: are in the show notes and see ali Ward dot
Speaker 1: com slash ologies for more links. Patreon dot com. Slash
Speaker 1: Ologies is where you can go to support the show
Speaker 1: and submit questions for the upcoming episodes. Ologiesmerch dot com
Speaker 1: has shirts and hats and tots and other merch. Thank
Speaker 1: you Shannon Filter some body Dutch for that. The Ologies
Speaker 1: Facebook group is a collection of wonder thanks to Eagle
Speaker 1: Eye admin Aaron Telbert. The theme song was written by
Speaker 1: Nick Thorburn of the band Islands. Thank you to assistant
Speaker 1: editor Jared Sleeper, and is always huge thanks to editor
Speaker 1: Stephen Ray Morris, who does a shell of a job.
Speaker 1: He hosts the podcasts The per Cast and See Jurassic
Speaker 1: Right about Dino's and Cats. Now, if you listen to
Speaker 1: the end of the episode, you know I tell you
Speaker 1: a secret this week. My secret is that if my
Speaker 1: apartment is messy, I get really weirdly bummed out and
Speaker 1: kind of cranky, and it always takes me like a
Speaker 1: week or two to realize what the problem is, and
Speaker 1: then I'm like, ah, I just have to tidy up
Speaker 1: my home. So as soon as this episode is up,
Speaker 1: I will be doing some laundry and maybe washing some floors,
Speaker 1: but in the end I'll be in a better mood
Speaker 1: because of it. Also have you ever had cheese tea.
Speaker 1: It's tea with cream, cheese and whipped cream on top,
Speaker 1: and it's so good. I drank it twice. No, I
Speaker 1: drank it three times this week. At first I was like,
Speaker 1: cheese tea, get out of here. And then I tried
Speaker 1: it and I was like, oh my god, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: Look it up. Find some locally. Report back cheese tea. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two to me again, I can confirm I
Speaker 1: went through like a pretty heavy cheese tea face like,
Speaker 1: it was pretty constant. I'm out the other side. I
Speaker 1: have good feelings about cheese tea. No longer an addiction,
Speaker 1: I still highly recommend if you've never had it. Also,
Speaker 1: why not let's do a fourth secret. So my dad
Speaker 1: loved raw tomatoes and I hate them, hate them. But
Speaker 1: we had this rogue tomato plant in La pop up
Speaker 1: in the backyard out of nowhere. I think someone spilled
Speaker 1: some salsa and it just produced an absolute shit boatload
Speaker 1: of tomatoes with no gardening care or supervision whatsoever. And
Speaker 1: my dad said that he would eat them, and I
Speaker 1: never got a chance to bring him some. So I
Speaker 1: picked them all and I oven dried them, which is
Speaker 1: what is really how you sun dried them, and then
Speaker 1: it is wake. I put a sun dried tomato in
Speaker 1: my dad's soup pocket because it's a totally fine and
Speaker 1: normal thing to do. Actually, maybe it is fine normal
Speaker 1: because I love that it's there. Also, Panatology Update Minnesota
Speaker 1: is coming in two weeks, so that'll be some brand
Speaker 1: new content very relevant to our interests, but a little
Speaker 1: more rest for me first, So next week see turtles
Speaker 1: woo boy boy, it's a whole other world under the ocean,
Speaker 1: and then aging. Okay, bye bye. Pacodermatologybology, doo zoology, lithology
Speaker 1: and technology, meteorology and manology, apology, seriology, elatology. I'm a
Speaker 1: rock bitch.