Speaker 1: Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in
Speaker 1: this edition is retired US Army Major Christopher Brewer, who
Speaker 1: served as a non commissioned officer for an Army Ranger
Speaker 1: Battalion and a Special Forces officer. Today will be discussing
Speaker 1: some of his elite training and his deployments to Colombia
Speaker 1: and Panama in the late nineteen eighties and early nineties.
Speaker 1: Major Brewer is also the author, most recently of In
Speaker 1: the Shadows Between the Wars, Becoming a Special Forces Operator.
Speaker 1: Christopher Brewer was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but grew up
Speaker 1: in countless military communities while his father served in the Army.
Speaker 1: When he became an adult in the early to mid
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, Brewer was interested in the service and in college,
Speaker 1: but when he saw an opportunity he could not pass up.
Speaker 1: He was all in in the Army.
Speaker 2: Pretty much all I'd known all my life. I started
Speaker 2: to go into college at North Georgia Military College at
Speaker 2: that time as a cadet, joined the twentieth SF National
Speaker 2: Guard to help pay the bills, and they cranked up
Speaker 2: the first Ranger Battalion in nineteen seventy four reactivated it.
Speaker 2: I caught the bug, dropped out and enlisted for first
Speaker 2: Ranger beat and linked up with him during the activation test.
Speaker 1: Brewer, who had never jumped out of a plane before
Speaker 1: Ranger school, says the training was tough, largely due to
Speaker 1: no nonsense instructors who knew what it took to succeed.
Speaker 2: When the Ranger Battalion was reactivated in nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 2: every NCO in it and almost all of the officers
Speaker 2: were combat veterans out of Vietnam, most of them survivors
Speaker 2: of the long Ranger connoissance patrols. So you had about
Speaker 2: as hardcore, competent, well trained, experienced cadur as you could possibly.
Speaker 2: Those guys cut no slack whatsoever. They did everything to standard,
Speaker 2: and you would do it again and again and again
Speaker 2: until you met that standard or you didn't last there
Speaker 2: very long.
Speaker 1: Brewer was later assigned to the five hundred and ninth
Speaker 1: Airborne Battalion Team, which was stationed primarily in Italy. While there,
Speaker 1: Brewer became an expert in free fall parachuting, but he
Speaker 1: also took part in some very difficult but highly valuable
Speaker 1: training in Germany at a place called bod Tulls. It
Speaker 1: was called platoon confidence training.
Speaker 2: The German Ranger School does a lot of things, but
Speaker 2: some of the things they do very well, or long
Speaker 2: range navigation in short periods of time. The whole philosophy
Speaker 2: is that the Soviets have invaded and we have to
Speaker 2: move back to friendly lines, which may involve moving forty
Speaker 2: to fifty one hundred kilometers. So you get a map.
Speaker 2: You're allowed to sketch the map, because if you're in
Speaker 2: that bad a situation where the Russians run the country,
Speaker 2: you may not have a map. There may be five
Speaker 2: of you and only one of you has one, So
Speaker 2: you sketch key points, you navigate off that for four
Speaker 2: or five kilometers. They'll give you an asthmuth and a
Speaker 2: distance which invariably goes across a lake, over a mountain,
Speaker 2: over a river, some obstacle that you've got to have
Speaker 2: find some way to negotiate around. But in this case
Speaker 2: you don't have a map, so you don't know it
Speaker 2: till you find it. And other little tricks that teach
Speaker 2: you land navigation down to a fine art which came
Speaker 2: in it really helpful. By the time I got to
Speaker 2: Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and actually got to the Special
Speaker 2: Forces qualification course because one of the events you have
Speaker 2: to get through is called the Star Course. In our class,
Speaker 2: out of a class of four hundred people only I
Speaker 2: think twelve fifteen of us passed on the first attempt.
Speaker 2: Now they ran it two more times just to get
Speaker 2: enough people to make a class, but we still only
Speaker 2: had one hundred out of four hundred and sixty who
Speaker 2: made it through that particul or gate. So that served
Speaker 2: me very well getting that experience.
Speaker 1: Brewer explains why the Army put him and others through
Speaker 1: the grueling selection and assessment tests.
Speaker 2: The whole idea is one, are you really sure this
Speaker 2: is what you want to do and how bad do
Speaker 2: you want it. They're going to push you to the
Speaker 2: point where your body and your mind says, I just
Speaker 2: can't do it anymore, to see what you're going to
Speaker 2: do when you reach that point, and they basically want
Speaker 2: you to keep going to your drop, and if you're
Speaker 2: not in good physical condition, you're going to drop pretty
Speaker 2: early in that process. The other thing they're doing is
Speaker 2: in the selection and assessment phase is they want to
Speaker 2: see how you're going to interact with the other people
Speaker 2: on the team. When you're dog tired, you're confused, you
Speaker 2: don't know what's going on other than you have to
Speaker 2: do this and you don't know why. And if you
Speaker 2: don't all to work together, you're just not going to
Speaker 2: make it. And that's really the whole purpose of selection
Speaker 2: and assessment. Get people that are serious, they're in good
Speaker 2: physical condition, that got good mental endurance as well, and
Speaker 2: they can work well with team members to accomplish a goal,
Speaker 2: even if they don't know the intended objective.
Speaker 1: A couple of years later, Brewer was back at Fort
Speaker 1: Bragg and had not parachuted in a while. But it
Speaker 1: came back to him quickly, which is a good thing.
Speaker 1: If it hadn't, he likely would have been killed.
Speaker 2: I'd come back to Fort Brag and had a jump.
Speaker 2: There was a round canopy. I hadn't jumped free fall
Speaker 2: in a year or two, and normal progression they want
Speaker 2: you to jump a static line first to make sure
Speaker 2: you can, and then you'll jump out. They call it
Speaker 2: a hop and pop, and then a five second ten
Speaker 2: second to lay. The jump master had rigged the static
Speaker 2: line incorrectly, so when I jumped out, I had a
Speaker 2: lucked container container wouldn't open, but it did pull out
Speaker 2: a lot of the parachute, which is called a horseshoe maufunction.
Speaker 2: If you have a bad malfunction like that, the normal
Speaker 2: procedure is you cut it away, you get rid of it.
Speaker 2: Can't do that when it's locked on you back, and
Speaker 2: if you pull your reserve, it's going to wrap around
Speaker 2: the other part. So there were some midair gymnastics to
Speaker 2: try and get that under control, wrapping it around, flipping
Speaker 2: in the air, pulled it down, fired the reserve, got
Speaker 2: it off clean. By the time all of this had occurred,
Speaker 2: I'd lost a good bit of altitude and this was
Speaker 2: enough for brag. So we were over a range and
Speaker 2: as I'm looking down, I could see all these little
Speaker 2: boxes with little green things in them. Didn't register at
Speaker 2: first what it was until I heard this deep booming
Speaker 2: voice behind me. Is there anyone down range? Is there
Speaker 2: anyone down range? Is there anyone down range? Fires will
Speaker 2: watch your lanes. I was over the target rate, not
Speaker 2: where I wanted to land, so under the reserve, I'm
Speaker 2: pulling down suspension lines to slip as hard as i
Speaker 2: could to get out of the impact area, which I
Speaker 2: was successful in doing about one hundred feet off the
Speaker 2: ground by this time, and I'm over trees, nowhere to
Speaker 2: go but into the trees. So then we had to
Speaker 2: execute a tree landing. Hit the top, branches, broke through it, collapse,
Speaker 2: A shoote I'm hurtling toward the ground. Literally just as
Speaker 2: my boots started to touch the canopy, snagged on the
Speaker 2: top of one of those North Carolina pine trees, landed gently,
Speaker 2: got out of it, went back over, talked to the
Speaker 2: jump master and said, look, I know I'm supposed to
Speaker 2: do a static line, a hop and pop, a five
Speaker 2: second and a ten second delay before I can jump
Speaker 2: my own rig. But considering I just did all of
Speaker 2: that in the last jump with the reserve activation and
Speaker 2: a cutaway with a horseshoe malfunction, can I please now
Speaker 2: jump my own parachute? Have I proven my proficiency? And yeah,
Speaker 2: you're good, you go on ahead.
Speaker 1: Not long after that, Brewer faced a difficult career choice.
Speaker 1: Went faced with many years of being a ranger drill instructor.
Speaker 1: It's a job he did not want, but there were
Speaker 1: very few options to get out of it.
Speaker 2: When I was in Germany, I got picked up for
Speaker 2: a sergeant first class E seven with only about seven
Speaker 2: years in. I was two weeks, literally two weeks in
Speaker 2: the secondary zone, but I was a section leader for
Speaker 2: our particular unit out there at the time. So I
Speaker 2: told all my guys, you're all going to go down
Speaker 2: and you're going to get your DA photo. And they
Speaker 2: all said, we're not going to get picked up. We're
Speaker 2: all just in the secondary zone being a good leader.
Speaker 2: I said, no, we're all going to do it because
Speaker 2: you just don't know, and lo and behold, I got
Speaker 2: picked up. So I was relisted about that time, and
Speaker 2: I figured, you know, as an E six, just making
Speaker 2: E seven, you have to have instructor time. I really
Speaker 2: didn't want to be a drill instructor, so I thought,
Speaker 2: I'll reenlist for Fort Benning. I'll go be a ranger instructor.
Speaker 2: I'll check that block and then I can go back
Speaker 2: to the Ranger Battalion, or I'll volunteer for s F training,
Speaker 2: both of which sounded pretty good to me. Got there,
Speaker 2: the start major looked at me and said, welcome, boy,
Speaker 2: buy yourself a house. You'll be here for the rest
Speaker 2: of your career. No, sorry, Major, come on, man, I've
Speaker 2: only got eight years in now. I'm not staying here
Speaker 2: for twelve years, and say, yes you are, since you
Speaker 2: are here at Fort Benning. You'll be here in the
Speaker 2: department for two or three years, but you will be
Speaker 2: selected to be a drill sergan and we're critically shorter
Speaker 2: of drill sergeants, so it is currently a five year
Speaker 2: stabilized tour. So that's seven years right there. You got
Speaker 2: eight in. You'll be about fifteen by the time you
Speaker 2: get off the trail. We'll bring you back over here
Speaker 2: for a couple of years in the department, maybe send
Speaker 2: you to the Airborne Department to get you twenty. Just
Speaker 2: buy a house. You ain't going anywhere, sorry, Major, I'm
Speaker 2: going back to the range of beds. No you're not.
Speaker 2: You're an E seven. There's a three year waiting list
Speaker 2: for the sevens to get there. Besides which that doesn't
Speaker 2: take priority over drill. Well, I want to be an SF.
Speaker 2: We keep on dreaming there, chumbling, you're not going to
Speaker 2: SF either. We're getting rid of SF. All those snake
Speaker 2: eaters are of no use in the modern army, so
Speaker 2: we're just working all ready to get rid of them.
Speaker 2: And of course you know that how that turned out.
Speaker 2: But I gots kept looking around, and the only thing
Speaker 2: that took precedence over drill sergeant was Officer Candidate School.
Speaker 2: So if the ultimate active betrayal to the NCO Corps,
Speaker 2: A volunteered to become a second lieutenant as a sergeant
Speaker 2: first class from the Ranger Department went into OCS with officers,
Speaker 2: some of whom had been thrown out of Ranger School,
Speaker 2: which is how they wound up as tack officers at OCS.
Speaker 2: Which that was an interesting couple of months there to
Speaker 2: make it through that, sat through classes in the NCO
Speaker 2: Advanced Course before I went that were the same classes
Speaker 2: with the same instructor in OCS, and then to the
Speaker 2: same instructors, same classes for a third time at the
Speaker 2: Infantry Officer's Basic Course before I got out and got
Speaker 2: to go to my first unit.
Speaker 1: As a Special Forces officer, Brewer knew that he and
Speaker 1: his men could be deployed at any time, but he
Speaker 1: says the biggest challenge was embracing the mindset needed to
Speaker 1: be in special Forces.
Speaker 2: I think the thing that has to come to the
Speaker 2: forefront of your mind is when you go in one
Speaker 2: of those jobs, nobody's coming to help. If you get
Speaker 2: in trouble. You're on your own and you're going to
Speaker 2: have to figure it out, and you really need to
Speaker 2: keep that in the forefront of your mind with everything
Speaker 2: that you do, and as long as you go into
Speaker 2: it with that attitude, it can be very interesting work
Speaker 2: and liberating to a great extent too. But these days,
Speaker 2: you've got cell phones. The guys who've got helmet cameras,
Speaker 2: they got the earphones on. They've got some officers sitting
Speaker 2: three thousand miles away when they're going through a room
Speaker 2: clearing rooms, telling no, go left, don't go right. There's
Speaker 2: nothing they can do that. Somebody isn't leaning over their
Speaker 2: shoulder and watching, but you're still three thousand miles away.
Speaker 2: If it doesn't turn out right, they're still not going
Speaker 2: to be able to get there to help you.
Speaker 1: That's Christopher Brewer. He's a retired Ranger Battalion NCO and
Speaker 1: Special Forces officer. The book is in the Shadows between
Speaker 1: the Wars, when we come back facing the Colombian drug cartels.
Speaker 1: I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans Chronicles.
Speaker 2: Sixty Seconds of Service.
Speaker 3: This sixty seconds of Service is presented by T Mobile
Speaker 3: recognizing these steadfast edication and sacrifices made by service members
Speaker 3: and their families. T mobile is committed to supporting active
Speaker 3: duty veterans and military spouses. Visit t mobile dot com
Speaker 3: slash military to learn more.
Speaker 4: Marine veteran Ethan Carter thought his best days were behind
Speaker 4: him until his Doberman Maverick stopped an armed robbery in
Speaker 4: their small town. Their active bravery went viral. Encouraged by neighbors,
Speaker 4: Ethan ran for mayor and one Maverick still shows up
Speaker 4: to city hall every day wearing a badge. Now, Ethan
Speaker 4: uses his role to support veterans, and Maverick's calm presence
Speaker 4: puts everyone at ease, from war zone to hometown hero.
Speaker 4: They're a team built on courage and trust. Today's sixty
Speaker 4: Seconds of Service is brought to you by Prevagen. Prevagen
Speaker 4: is the number one pharmacist recommended memory support brand. You
Speaker 4: can find Prevagen and the Vitamin Aisle in stores everywhere.
Speaker 4: For more great veteran stories, just go to National Defense
Speaker 4: Network dot com.
Speaker 1: This is Veterans Chronicle. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in
Speaker 1: this edition is retired US Army major and Special Forces
Speaker 1: officer Christopher Brewer. His new book is in the Shadows
Speaker 1: Between the Wars. In August of nineteen eighty nine, Colombian
Speaker 1: presidential candidate Luis Carlos Galan was assassinated by hitmen hired
Speaker 1: by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar. The country was rife with violence,
Speaker 1: and the US decided to get involved in a limited way,
Speaker 1: enter Christopher Brewer and the seventh Special Forces Team.
Speaker 2: George Herbert Bush was the president at that time, and
Speaker 2: he went on national TV after Galan was assassinated by
Speaker 2: Escobar and said, we are going to help the Colombian
Speaker 2: government stand up to the cartels. We'll provide logistics, we'll
Speaker 2: protride helicopters, we'll give them whatever they need, but we
Speaker 2: are not going to get involved in a Latin American war.
Speaker 2: We will not send combat troops. So one of the
Speaker 2: first things that they asked Force is where we really
Speaker 2: need a medical Corman school. We don't have any medics,
Speaker 2: and when we go out into the jungle, if our
Speaker 2: guys get hurt, they die. So we figured out that
Speaker 2: we need a metavact capability. That went down to an
Speaker 2: office that's called at that time was called the Security
Speaker 2: Assistance Training Management Office, and they basically provided doctors, nurses, logisticians, engineers,
Speaker 2: non combat arms folks that they would send out to
Speaker 2: teach other foreign governments and military and police non combat
Speaker 2: related items or skill sets. But when they looked at
Speaker 2: Bogata at that time, there were on a normal day
Speaker 2: in Bogatah, there'll be one hundred people get killed just
Speaker 2: from street crime. And at that time, the cartels were
Speaker 2: setting off bombs all over the city, and no one
Speaker 2: really knew who in the military was compromised and who
Speaker 2: in the government was compromised. The government had just decided
Speaker 2: they're going to fight back against the cartels and they
Speaker 2: had a real challenge on their hands, so nobody could
Speaker 2: guarantee the safety of anyone that went down there. So
Speaker 2: SATMO said, look, you know, we can't put and nurses
Speaker 2: into that environment. So mission came over to seventh Special
Speaker 2: Forces Group. We speak Spanish, but it called for six
Speaker 2: medical trainers. Now you've only got two medics on an
Speaker 2: a team, and none of the guys that were down
Speaker 2: in Panama who were some of the best Spanish speakers.
Speaker 2: A third battalion wanted to give up all the medics
Speaker 2: for three teams. So it came to us.
Speaker 1: Brewer explains how he and his men were not officially
Speaker 1: Special Forces in Columbia and the limited resources they were given.
Speaker 2: So we got the job. But the way they handled
Speaker 2: it was they transferred us on orders out of Special
Speaker 2: Forces to SATMO. So once we were officially SATMO not
Speaker 2: special Forces, put on Savine clothes luggage, went down to
Speaker 2: Miami Airport and jumped on a flight going down to Bogata.
Speaker 2: And while I was in there, I saw this book
Speaker 2: just come out Tom Clancy, Clear and Present Danger. So
Speaker 2: I bought that book to read on the flight down.
Speaker 2: We got there, the RSO briefed up. Everybody said, nobody
Speaker 2: goes out of the embassy unless you're an armored vehicle,
Speaker 2: most dangerous posting since Beirute, and all the casualty figures
Speaker 2: except for you guys. We'll drive you down there to
Speaker 2: the middle of South Bogatah where all the shooting's going on.
Speaker 2: You're going to be living there. Here's a bretta pistol,
Speaker 2: and here's a box of fifty rounds to protect yourself with.
Speaker 2: Call us once a week let us know if you're
Speaker 2: still alive.
Speaker 1: The closest Brewer got to combat in Colombia came as
Speaker 1: Escobar vowed to attack a US radar site that was
Speaker 1: causing him problems with his drug trafficking, but Brewer needed
Speaker 1: a lot more weapons and a plan to stop Escobar's attack.
Speaker 2: There was trouble down in the valley between Bogata and
Speaker 2: Median and Escobar knew that there was a US Air
Speaker 2: Force radar site that had been set up at a
Speaker 2: Colombian Air Force base, and that radar was picking up
Speaker 2: the drug planes that were flying out of that valley
Speaker 2: and handing them off to Colombian jets and US Air
Speaker 2: Force jets that were intercepting him on the way to Miami. Now,
Speaker 2: obviously that interfered with Escabar's business. He didn't like that.
Speaker 2: But the president has said there weren't any US troops
Speaker 2: down there, so this was TSSCI. Nobody could know about this,
Speaker 2: and the Colombian government wouldn't let him bring down more
Speaker 2: troops to protect the base. Escobar called the base up
Speaker 2: and said, if you don't shut off that damn radar,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna come on there and I'm going to kill
Speaker 2: all the gringoes and I'm going to blow up the radar.
Speaker 2: So they were in a quandary. They didn't know what
Speaker 2: to do, so they called us. There were only six
Speaker 2: of us there and we were running a school. We
Speaker 2: couldn't really afford to let anyone go, so I took
Speaker 2: one guy with me. They flew us out on a
Speaker 2: Columbian general's airplane. We landed. We brought along one set
Speaker 2: of combat fatigues with us, with no patches or anything.
Speaker 2: So we had that tucked up in our backpacks and
Speaker 2: we got out, changed out of saving closed, changed into
Speaker 2: army gear. Still only had a burretta and to talk to.
Speaker 2: There were only about five or six US Air Force
Speaker 2: people there. There was a commander, some technicians, and one
Speaker 2: security policeman. And first thing we did would say, hey,
Speaker 2: we're here to help. First off, if you guys got
Speaker 2: any guns, This bread is all I got. He said,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, come on. So he took us out to
Speaker 2: this GP large tent that was in a grass strip
Speaker 2: between the two runways, and I thought that was their
Speaker 2: command post. But that GP large tent was completely full
Speaker 2: of crates of guns, of ammunition, explosives. Now there was
Speaker 2: literally enough there to outfit a couple of companies, And
Speaker 2: I said, what the hell were you going to do
Speaker 2: with all this. I said, well, we were going to
Speaker 2: equip the Colombians, but we think they're compromised and descobars
Speaker 2: paying them off, so we couldn't give it to them.
Speaker 2: But you guys can have whatever you want. So we
Speaker 2: started opening up boxes and grabbed an M sixteen, found
Speaker 2: these beautiful little chopped M sixty machine gun, Grabbed a
Speaker 2: couple of things of ammunition, loaded up a jeep trailer,
Speaker 2: found crates of claymore minds. Loaded all those up and
Speaker 2: he felt a lot better at that point in time,
Speaker 2: a lot more comfortable.
Speaker 1: That's retired US Army Major Christopher Brewer. His book is
Speaker 1: In the Shadows Between the Wars. When we come back,
Speaker 1: we'll finish the story in Columbia, and then Brewer is
Speaker 1: off to the unstable aftermath of Operation Just Cause in Panama.
Speaker 1: I'm Greg Corumbus, and this is Veterans Chronicles. This is
Speaker 1: Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition
Speaker 1: is retired US Army Major Christopher Brewer. He served as
Speaker 1: a Ranger Battalion NCO and a Special Forces officer. His
Speaker 1: latest book is entitled In the Shadows Between the Wars.
Speaker 1: Becoming a Special Forces operator. In just a moment, you'll
Speaker 1: hear how Brewer and his team went to Panama after
Speaker 1: Operation Just Cause in order to deal with these significant
Speaker 1: instabilities there following the deposing of Manuel Noriega. But first
Speaker 1: we head back to Columbia. Brewer now explains what it
Speaker 1: was like waiting for Escobar's attack and how the situation unfolded.
Speaker 2: Escobar had already cleared trail going up to it, so
Speaker 2: we went back down. We talked to the base commander says, look,
Speaker 2: we need to use this company for about a day.
Speaker 2: We need to clear fields of fire all the way
Speaker 2: around that hill. We need to dig fighting positions, communication trenches,
Speaker 2: and we're going to put those claim wars up. So
Speaker 2: we did all of that. We made a point to
Speaker 2: getting the Columbian officers out there with the machine guns,
Speaker 2: showed them how to operate the machine guns, let them
Speaker 2: shoot that made them happy, got good food for the troops,
Speaker 2: and water that made them happy. And knowing full well
Speaker 2: that we're being observed the whole time by Escobar and
Speaker 2: his crew. So by the time we got done the
Speaker 2: target that he had already made plans to have his
Speaker 2: guys crawl up through this trail in the jungle and
Speaker 2: blow them up. Now had three hundred meters of open
Speaker 2: ground all the way around it, with dug and fighting
Speaker 2: with them, sixty machine guns set up in them and
Speaker 2: claymore set out. And the last thing we did before
Speaker 2: the sun went down on the night he was supposed
Speaker 2: to come, we told all the cabos, the corporals that
Speaker 2: we were pretty sure were compromised, do not come on
Speaker 2: this hill tonight. You don't come. Don't let any of
Speaker 2: your guys come, because we will kill anybody who comes
Speaker 2: up that road tonight. This is when Escobar said he's
Speaker 2: going to come, and I can't tell them at you
Speaker 2: or them, so don't come. I care about you. I
Speaker 2: don't want you to get hurt. And lo and behold,
Speaker 2: eight man patrols started walking up that road about three
Speaker 2: in the morning, and it was pretty obvious these were
Speaker 2: not the same guys. But that cabo that I'd talked
Speaker 2: to popped up out of the brush and stopped him
Speaker 2: at the base of the hill, talking to him, pointing up.
Speaker 2: They turned around and they left, and the next day
Speaker 2: Escabar called the base commander. I said, I don't give
Speaker 2: a damn about your radar or your green berets, and
Speaker 2: that was it.
Speaker 1: Because of the assignment in Colombia, Brewer and his team
Speaker 1: were part of Operation Just Cause in Panama in late
Speaker 1: December nineteen eighty nine, but they were not home for
Speaker 1: long before they were on their way to Panama to
Speaker 1: deal with the volatile aftermath of removing Noriega from power.
Speaker 1: Brewer explains the less than enviable task he was given
Speaker 1: with respect to the recently defeated Panamanian forces.
Speaker 2: We got down there and we were met by some
Speaker 2: people who, in briefness that said that you're going to
Speaker 2: go out to all of the Panamanian National Defense Force
Speaker 2: compounds with all of their troops. We want you to
Speaker 2: go and give them their guns back. They've just been
Speaker 2: shooting them. A lot of these guys have been killed
Speaker 2: just the week before. Literally give them their guns back
Speaker 2: and tell them they're police now. Now, in that culture,
Speaker 2: if you were too fat and lazy to be in
Speaker 2: the army, you could be a cup. So telling all
Speaker 2: these guys that you're not in the army anymore your
Speaker 2: cups was not going to go over very well. And said, okay, well,
Speaker 2: you want us to teach them how to be cops.
Speaker 2: Said no, you can't do that. You're not cops. You're
Speaker 2: a tripwaar. We want you to live with them, keep
Speaker 2: an eye on them, and if it looks like they're
Speaker 2: going to mutiny and try to mount a coup, you
Speaker 2: let us know. And if you don't check in after
Speaker 2: three days, we'll figure you're dead, and they will know
Speaker 2: pretty well that the coup's going on.
Speaker 1: To find out whether there were plans for a coup,
Speaker 1: Brewer and others on his team routinely patrolled areas to
Speaker 1: keep order and keep an eye out for anything resembling
Speaker 1: a plot to stage a coup. But Brewer also explains
Speaker 1: that simply walking through different areas gave him ample opportunities
Speaker 1: to gather intelligence without even trying.
Speaker 2: We'd go out of the compound because we wanted to know.
Speaker 2: They weren't going to tell us much, so we'd go
Speaker 2: talk to the people in the village. We'd leave. We'd
Speaker 2: walk around initially in twos, but there weren't enough of us,
Speaker 2: because there's only four in my location. Some places only
Speaker 2: had two. So sometimes you'd go walk alone, but you'd
Speaker 2: walk with there were lots of witnesses. You'd keep moving
Speaker 2: you never let anybody know other than your own guys,
Speaker 2: where you're going or at what route you're going to
Speaker 2: never follow the same route twice. And we weren't allowed
Speaker 2: under US law at that time to establish an intelligence network.
Speaker 2: In fact, we got in trouble with that with some
Speaker 2: of the army intel people because they accused us of
Speaker 2: being spies, and we're spies. You're not spies. You can't
Speaker 2: do that, as we told them, says, we're not spies.
Speaker 2: We're going out and saying hello and having coffee with
Speaker 2: the people. And if the people want to come up
Speaker 2: and tell us something, who am I to tell them? No,
Speaker 2: I'm just being friendly. I'm not tasking anyone. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying go find this and come back. I'm not paying anybody.
Speaker 2: I'm just being a nice guy and just getting out
Speaker 2: and being a nice guy. We started to get better
Speaker 2: intel than the military intelligence unit back an amatur in
Speaker 2: the Canal Zone was getting, which really pissed them off
Speaker 2: no end. So then wound up doing the dance with
Speaker 2: the nory Gistas, the Dignity Battalion guys who have been
Speaker 2: formed by No Diego that were part of the organization
Speaker 2: trying to mount a coup, and the US military police
Speaker 2: who really didn't like green Beres, and the US military
Speaker 2: intelligence unit who was trying to catch us doing intel operations. GUS,
Speaker 2: we were walking on their turf.
Speaker 1: As you heard, Christopher Brewer was not only dealing with
Speaker 1: the very real possibility of a coup, but he was
Speaker 1: also embroiled in turf wars within our own military and
Speaker 1: orders from higher ups that he found completely unacceptable. Here,
Speaker 1: Brewer explains the back and forth he had with a
Speaker 1: higher ranking officer about what the rules of engagement ought
Speaker 1: to be for him and the other Special Forces members
Speaker 1: on this assignment in Panamon.
Speaker 2: When they said go to civilian clothes, they stipulated, we
Speaker 2: have credible intelligence you're at risk out there, and well,
Speaker 2: no shit, we knew that when we got here. But
Speaker 2: if we want you to go armed, and we want
Speaker 2: you to carry your weapons concealed. So the only thing
Speaker 2: we had that we could conceal, you know, the rifles
Speaker 2: are obviously going to be too big, but we had
Speaker 2: the baretta. So we got people to make us some
Speaker 2: holsters that we could put on our civilian clothes, and
Speaker 2: we started carrying the bretta concealed and said now here's
Speaker 2: your rules of engagement. First off, make sure you carry
Speaker 2: that pistol unloaded. You can have a loaded magazine in
Speaker 2: your pocket, but do not put it in the pistol. Now,
Speaker 2: if you're in a situation where you feel your life
Speaker 2: is in danger, draw that unloaded pistol and shout halt,
Speaker 2: I am armed. If they don't stop, pull out your
Speaker 2: magazine and say halt. If they still don't stop, put
Speaker 2: it in and say halt and they still don't stop,
Speaker 2: load around and yell halt. And if they still don't stop,
Speaker 2: and your life is in danger, shoot to wound, not
Speaker 2: to kill. Yeh listen, Oh God, we go. They don't
Speaker 2: have a clue. So finally I said, look, man, no,
Speaker 2: if that's the roe, we're going unarmed. We're not going
Speaker 2: to carry any guns at all, because all you're going
Speaker 2: to do is get us killed. Because even the local
Speaker 2: crooks are going to know we're carrying an expensive Buretta
Speaker 2: pistol that's unloaded, and they're not going to have any
Speaker 2: trouble at all taking it away from us, so they're
Speaker 2: going to kill us just to get the gun. So no,
Speaker 2: we're not going to do that. And I got to
Speaker 2: reply it back, saying, well, what is your roe? I said, Okay,
Speaker 2: my ro is very simple, and I'm going to brief
Speaker 2: my guys in Spanish out in the compound, where I'm
Speaker 2: sure that all the Panamanian Defense Force guys can hear
Speaker 2: every word I say, and I'm going to use a
Speaker 2: loud voice, and I told my guys we are in
Speaker 2: danger out here, there is a threat. You will carry
Speaker 2: your weapon on your person at all times. There will
Speaker 2: be around in the chamber. And if you find yourself
Speaker 2: in a situation where you think your life is in danger,
Speaker 2: I want you to negotiate, and I want you to
Speaker 2: warm threaten whatever you have to do to de escalate
Speaker 2: without anyone being harmed. Don't be afraid to run if
Speaker 2: you have to. But if you're cornered and there's nothing
Speaker 2: you can do and your life is in danger, you
Speaker 2: draw that pistol and you kill whoever represents the threat.
Speaker 2: If that gun comes out of the holster, there better
Speaker 2: be a dead man at your feet. Otherwise, you keep
Speaker 2: that gun in the holster and you keep talking or
Speaker 2: you get running. That's those are the conditions.
Speaker 1: When it came to turf wars, Brewer says he had
Speaker 1: a memorable and intense exchange with a colonel from military intelligence.
Speaker 1: As you might have guessed from some of Brewer's earlier comments,
Speaker 1: special forces and military intelligence were not on the best
Speaker 1: of terms due to the military intelligence leadership becoming convinced
Speaker 1: that the special forces were encroaching on their turf. Brewer's boss,
Speaker 1: also a full colonel, did not want Brewer revealing anything
Speaker 1: to the kernel from military intelligence. Brewer was a captain
Speaker 1: at the time, but followed his colonel's orders precisely.
Speaker 2: Officer in charge of US called me and told me that, look,
Speaker 2: this MI I Brigade commander is coming out and he's
Speaker 2: coming to your compound and he wants to be briefed.
Speaker 2: You don't tell him a thing because this is a
Speaker 2: turf war. We don't want to give him any leverage.
Speaker 2: Just tell him you can't brief him. Leave it at that, say, man,
Speaker 2: you know he's not going to be happy and he's
Speaker 2: going to be a full bird talking to a captain,
Speaker 2: So yeah, we'll handle it all right. So he showed up,
Speaker 2: came in, and I was going to give him the
Speaker 2: standard briefing that we would give to any military tourists
Speaker 2: that showed up that none of the really sensitive stuff.
Speaker 2: But here's where we are and where we're positioned, and
Speaker 2: how many people this compound and this compound we've been
Speaker 2: here for this long. And get about halfway through that,
Speaker 2: and he said, I don't want to hear any of
Speaker 2: that crap. Tell me about the guns. He said, look sir,
Speaker 2: we know in where we're sitting right here is probably surveilled.
Speaker 2: I would be very surprised if they didn't have this
Speaker 2: place tapped. And I can't talk about stuff like that. Well,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to tell me anyway, all right, come
Speaker 2: on with me. And I took them to a place
Speaker 2: that we knew was clean because we had our people
Speaker 2: all the way around it and we checked it. Sat
Speaker 2: him down, said, look sir, you've got an MI person
Speaker 2: here on the team. He'd sent out a young lady
Speaker 2: who she was a translator. She spoke flawless Spanish, showed
Speaker 2: up at our door saying, have you got any bullets
Speaker 2: for this thing? With a bretta that was unloaded, and
Speaker 2: she'd been sent out to gather intel and a sign
Speaker 2: to live with us. So we said, look, you know,
Speaker 2: first off, let us teach you how to shoot that gun. Second,
Speaker 2: let us teach you a little bit about collecting intel
Speaker 2: and let one of our guys go with you because
Speaker 2: this is not a safe area in it. And over
Speaker 2: a period of time she learned she was really sharp.
Speaker 2: She ultimately went over to the FBI and she got
Speaker 2: to be a strong member of the team. But she
Speaker 2: knew everything we knew, and that helped solve the dilemma.
Speaker 2: Because she was military intelligence, she could task, she could
Speaker 2: pay people, but legally we couldn't. So it actually made
Speaker 2: a good functioning team. And I told him, says, sir,
Speaker 2: your representative here knows everything we know. I don't care.
Speaker 2: I want you to tell me. Sarah can't. Well, you
Speaker 2: should have called back and got permission, Sarah. I did
Speaker 2: call back, and they said not to tell you. I
Speaker 2: don't know what's going on. I don't know what the
Speaker 2: conflict is, but I have my orders. I can't do that.
Speaker 2: And he crosses his arm says, well, Captain, I'm giving
Speaker 2: you a direct order. You're going to brief me, and
Speaker 2: you're going to do it right now. And I've had
Speaker 2: about all of this guy that I can handle on
Speaker 2: that particular day. So I said, look, sir, I have
Speaker 2: my orders. I can't violate my orders. I will tell
Speaker 2: you that I've got a situation going on in here
Speaker 2: right now where I don't feel that we're safe or
Speaker 2: you're safe, and you're getting in the way of me
Speaker 2: being able to accomplish my mission. So I'm asking you
Speaker 2: please leave now. I'm done talking. Well, Captain, I'm not leaving, sir,
Speaker 2: Yes you are. If you don't leave on your own,
Speaker 2: then we're going to take you out of here. Well
Speaker 2: how are you going to do that, captain? And I'd
Speaker 2: already called two of my guys to come on in,
Speaker 2: told him, come on in here, bring a duffel bag. Well,
Speaker 2: you need it, the duff bag. Just bring a duffel
Speaker 2: bag and fleck scuffs. So you see these two E
Speaker 2: seven standing behind you? Yeah, I see him. Well, sir,
Speaker 2: if you will not cooperate and leave voluntarily in your car,
Speaker 2: I can't have you going out of here kicking the screaming.
Speaker 2: So what's going to happen these two E seven's here.
Speaker 2: They're going to cuff you, They're going to gag you,
Speaker 2: and they're going to put you in that duffel bag
Speaker 2: and then they're going to carry you out, put you
Speaker 2: in the trunk of your car, and we're going to
Speaker 2: drive your car with another one of my vehicles and
Speaker 2: my guys in it to protect you back to the
Speaker 2: canal zone. And he just looks at me real hard.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at in and I finally he blinked and
Speaker 2: he got up and walked out.
Speaker 1: But that is not the end of the story. Brewer
Speaker 1: says he faced a list of court martial charges from
Speaker 1: the military intelligence colonel, but Brewer explains how the allegations
Speaker 1: were methodically countered.
Speaker 2: But as soon as he got to the canal zone,
Speaker 2: he tried to started bringing court maultra charges, and he
Speaker 2: tried to charge me with assault that I didn't lay
Speaker 2: a hand on him. I just extribed what I was
Speaker 2: going to do for his safety, disobedience of direct order,
Speaker 2: which I had the conflicting orders for my colonel. They
Speaker 2: backed me up, and ultimately he charged me with sexual
Speaker 2: harassment because I would not let his female agent go
Speaker 2: out into the field alone, and I had had to
Speaker 2: explain this look. Ultimately, we did let her go out alone,
Speaker 2: but we asked her to stay and take training from
Speaker 2: us and allow us to escort and shore around so
Speaker 2: she didn't wind up dead in a hole someplace, and
Speaker 2: she voluntarily did so and turned into be a damn
Speaker 2: good member of the team.
Speaker 1: Christopher Brewer spent twenty four years in the US Army,
Speaker 1: retiring as a major in nineteen ninety seven. Much of
Speaker 1: that time was spent in Special Forces, where your role
Speaker 1: and your work are often kept secret for years, decades
Speaker 1: or longer. In fact, he had to fight to declassify
Speaker 1: certain details from the mission in Panama before he could
Speaker 1: talk about them in his book. But despite the occasional
Speaker 1: clashes with Army bureaucracy, Brewer is grateful for his service
Speaker 1: and to have served alongside the excellent soldiers in US
Speaker 1: Army Special Forces.
Speaker 2: We accomplished a lot of good things, a lot of
Speaker 2: good things people don't really know about, and Special Forces
Speaker 2: is still doing that. The guys that are out there
Speaker 2: don't get enough credit for what they do, So I
Speaker 2: was just proud to be able to be one of
Speaker 2: them and stand out there with them.
Speaker 1: That is retired to US Army Major Christopher Brewer. He
Speaker 1: served as a non commissioned officer for an Army Ranger
Speaker 1: battalion and as a Special Forces officer. His latest book
Speaker 1: is In the Shadows Between the Wars becoming a Special
Speaker 1: Forces operator. I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans Chronicles. Hi.
Speaker 1: This is Greg Corumbus and thanks for listening to Veterans Chronicles,
Speaker 1: a presentation of the American Veterans Center. For more information,
Speaker 1: please visit American Veteranscenter dot org. You can also follow
Speaker 1: the American Veterans Center on Facebook and on Twitter. We're
Speaker 1: at AVC update. Subscribe to the American Veterans Center YouTube
Speaker 1: channel for full oral histories and special features, and of course,
Speaker 1: please subscribe to the Veterans Chronicles podcast wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Thanks again for listening and please join us
Speaker 1: next time for Veterans Chronicles