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Speaker 1: I'm married to a buncle pap.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh, we got better to conjoined in a subway shop.

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Oh oh, I'm married to a bunco.

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Speaker 3: To a buncle.

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Speaker 2: Amnin man, we got better conjoined in a.

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Speaker 4: Sub Oh yeah, what's up y'all? Welcome everybody. It's another

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live stream, another open for him. I don't know why

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I was getting a double feedback loop there, but we're

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gonna go ahead and just get into it as usual.

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I'm a little late. We're on dire time, which the

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Hodge Twins said was ethnic time, their joke, not mine.

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I would never make such a horrible gracist comment ever, ever, ever,

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But hey, I'm have black. What can I say if

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I show up thirty minutes late. I'm just being who

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I am, And if you call me out, you're racist.

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So chew on that bigot. Welcome everybody. We're gonna be

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opening it up here in a little bit. There's the link.

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Let me start this dumb ass Twitter space for all

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these dumb asses to come in here and make all

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their dumb ass argus. Miss yeah uh, there we go.

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Gotta hear that sweet Elon music. They hear that sweet

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Elon remix the met more the Elon remix and the

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Meat More Meat More. Yes, of course you need esoteric

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Hollywood through you need all of the esthetic Hollywood series.

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Speaker 5: My my, did I'm not include the I didn't include

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the damn stream Labs link?

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Speaker 4: Mom, Mom, let me get you out of the Strength

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the Strength Labs. By the way, I'm in joined my

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reading of Max Blumenthal's book, it's a good compliment to

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the other texts in the series, as we noted. So

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I'm about halfways through now. I wish I wish rid

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Bond hadn't backed out of the debate. But it is

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what it is, you know, as the book, as the

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Boomers say, it is what it is. It was what

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it was. Bloomer wisdom cliches, Member wisdom cliches, y'all like those?

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All right, here is the super chat link if you

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want us to support the stream. I tried to make

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the topics broad, but sometimes that's kind of a mixed bag.

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By the way, the I think the Hodgewins gave me

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an inward pass, but many other brothers have also giving

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me in word passes. So but I'm afraid if I

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use it, the system won't recognize the past that I have.

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You know what I mean, Like, if I go on

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Piers Morgan next week and I try to use it,

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I don't feel like they're gonna let me use it,

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you know what I mean. So there's the uh, the

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link if you want to support the stream right there. People.

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So I woke up today to people saying, when you

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going to debate thoughtful lds or I'm like, dude, I've

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already debated that guy. What do you mean he he

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came on and was one of the stupidest much of

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nonsense arguments that we've ever heard on here. Now the

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problem is, just like with Derek Brows, I don't know

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which one of the clips, oh there it is is

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that person. So if we go back to here, this

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was a weird profile with an alternate name Derek Brose

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with a Z, so I don't know if that's a

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fan account or if it's his account, but it had

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like one hundred thousand subscribers on Twitter, so I'm assuming

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that's his account. But it was the biggest bunch of

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gnostic nonsense I've ever heard. But here is the Derek

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Brose clip. People said, well, where did you debate with

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Dereck Brose? Okay, right, here, and I don't know which

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of the Mormons is the thoughtful Mormon dude or whatever

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his name is, but it's not even a big account anyway.

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So here's Robert Gerr. Here's that wild Mormon chick that

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called in. Had a just almost schizo level rant of nonsense.

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It didn't even make sense what she was saying. Here's

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another Mormon. Let's see if it's this guy. Maybe it's

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this one. It is a fallacy. Can you can you

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tell me what a fallacy? What's up?

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Speaker 6: Papa?

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Speaker 4: No, that was a different Mormon because that was a

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recent stream. That's a different Mormon recent stream. Uh, Robert Gerr. Again,

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maybe it's this guy. Let's see if this is the

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right Mormon. There's another one, Thomism. There we go, the

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smartest Mormon Thalmism, a lot of stuff like that. Okay,

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I don't know if this is the right one, but

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I'll give you this one. And then there's another clip

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here this Mormon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember.

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Speaker 4: The t or is that the same guy? That's the

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same question and my friend saying that you but okay,

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I think this is him. I think this is the

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right guy. So for all the people asking when and

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where did you argue already with I forget his name

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on Twitter, but it might be this guy. I wish

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people just use their name so we could identify them.

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Everybody's got these stupid ass handles that are Mormon thoughtful

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mystic sixty nine, Like, I don't, dude, just tell me

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who are you? This is him because it's the same logo.

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So this guy, I've already debated this guy, and I

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think it's that clip that I just pull this one.

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I think, so here's the guy looking kind of weird here,

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and I let's let's hear him talk and then I

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think we can figure out his voice. But it's it's

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the same logo in his channel that I think was

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on his.

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Speaker 7: Twitter presented what members of the Church of Jesus Christ

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of Latter day Saints actually believe.

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Speaker 4: No, we didn't, because your own church changes this position.

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Your changes this position historically. So uh, let's see if

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that's the same guy.

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Speaker 6: Trying to get an understanding of the what do you

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call it, the monarchical treated carrying?

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Speaker 4: That doesn't sound like the same idea, does it.

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Speaker 6: You like that, but it's like you had other things

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that you want to debate about Mormonism or w.

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Speaker 7: And how do I know this well? Because I am one.

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And if you are not a Latter Day Saint, you

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need to be aware that Jay Dyer and people like

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him are misleading you. And by the end of this

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video you will see why.

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Speaker 8: You see.

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Speaker 7: Jay Dyer is one of those internet apologists known as

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the Ortho Bros of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and he

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was invited on the Hodge Twins podcast to give his

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take on Jews and Muslims, but at a certain point

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become rotation veered into a discussion about the beliefs held

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by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter

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day Saints, or more commonly known as Mormons.

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Speaker 9: Now, I remember as a little kid, me and Kim

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was playing outside and these woman kids came to our

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house on bike said that white shirts and black tyes,

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if I remember correctly, and they went, Mama, whenever we

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want to talk about God Jesus. My mom election in

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the house, right, she's very religious. So me and my

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brother's outside playing, and then I heard my mama, cause

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get the fuck out of my house. Ristians right got you?

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And I said, what happened, mama?

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Speaker 4: You said?

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Speaker 9: They said, I'm the I'm a descendant of Cain, and

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that's why my skin is brown.

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Speaker 4: So Mormons belief, Now this is specifically one of those

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teachings that as we saw two calls back, we had

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former Muslims in here. The Mormon Church has distanced itself

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from so the pre existence of soul. Now, I think

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they still believe in pre existence of souls, but they

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distanced themselves from the older Mormon prophet teaching of the

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pre existence of souls, leading to the people that sided

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with with the rebellion against God being cursed to have

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dark skin. Right, even Mormons believe in the pre existence

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of souls. That you weren't created at your conception. You

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existed before, okay, and so the reason that you have

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black skin is because you send in your previous life.

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It's oh yeah. They believe that black people are the

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ones that followed Lucifer in rebellion, and so the curse

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was to be born as black.

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Speaker 10: No, for none of these iniquities come of the Lord,

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for he do with that which is good among the

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children of men, and he denieth.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but this is not even talking about their secret

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doctrines which the Mormon that called in said, it's from

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the Book of Abraham, right, And he said, that's where

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it talks about black people can't be in the Mormon priesthood.

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Right now. This what Mormons always do is they don't

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talk about the actual teachings to normies. They act as

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if they have the same kind of basic ideas as

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the rest of Christianity. And they always base it on

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word concept fallacies and equivocation. Oh, you believe in Jesus

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being divine, and you believe in the Godhead, so do we.

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But they mean totally different things, right, And I'm trying

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to find the actual text from actual Here's Abraham, the

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Book of Abraham, which is a forgery, by the way,

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And let's see in the Book of In his book

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Church and the negro Lds, writer doctor John Lewis Lund

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cited David O. McKay from nineteen forty seven giving a

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lengthy response about the fellow students that were perturbed about

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the question of Negroids not being welcomed into the Mormon priesthood.

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I know of no scriptural basis for the priesthood for negroes,

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and I believe, as you suggest, that the real reason

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dates back to our preexistent life. So here's one of

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the Mormon leaders, one of the Mormon so called the Allogians.

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I don't know if he is one of the prophets

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LDS President David O. McKay, So that's pretty high up.

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Such a statement carries significant importance because McKay referred directly

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to the Yell Scripture of the Pearl of Great Price,

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where the Book of Abraham is found by itself. Verse

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twenty six might sound vague and confusing. It says Pharaoh,

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being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his

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people wisely and justly throughout the days. And then it says,

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even in the reign of Adam and also of Noah,

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his father blessed him the blessing of the earth and

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the blessing of wisdom. And cursed, but cursed is he

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that as pertains to priesthood. So this is saying that

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the sentence of Cain cannot be Mormon priests. And as

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you saw, it was because of quote their previous life,

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their pre existence. These Mormon leaders felt that Abraham won

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twenty six was a key verse when it came to

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denying the priesthood to black people, and so doing verse

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twenty six is put in the context of denial. Since

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the Lord appeared to Cain and converse with him many

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times before Kin killed Abel, Cain must have held priesthood.

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God said to him, from this time fourth, it shall

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be that the father of lies he shall be called Perdition,

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and the Lord curse Kine with severe cursings. This is

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not the Bible, this is their stupid made up book.

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On those cursings was placed a mark of Cain, which

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mark would be carried by his posterity throughout all generations.

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This mark was Cain's black skin, according to the Pearl

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Great Price LEDs. Theologian Hunter went on to say that

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the greatest curse of all was the cursehood of black

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skin and not having the priesthood. Hunter insisted that Joseph

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Smith himself identified black people as the descendants of Cain.

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In Nauvoo in eighteen forty two, the brethren were discussing

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whether the Negroes or the Indians had received a worse

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treatment from whites. The prophet Joseph Smith said, the Indians

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have greater cause to complain of treatment of whites than

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Negroes or the sons of Cain. Therefore, it is due

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to the teaching of the Pearl Great Price that Joseph

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Smith and the other leaders for bay Maid black people

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from the priesthood and noticed that it was due to

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the sin in the previous existence. So this is their

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stupid ass theology and it's based on the pre existence

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of souls. Here is Brigham Young, the second LDS President,

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Brigham Young. The curse that remains upon them can never

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They shall never hold the priesthood nor sharing it until

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all the descendants of Adam have received the promises. Why

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Mormonism cannot recover from the Book of Abraham? Right?

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Speaker 11: Why more people left Mormonism over this issue than almost

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any other.

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Speaker 4: The Book of Abraham.

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Speaker 7: What is this tiny, unassuming five chapter book that definitively proves.

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Speaker 2: That Joseph Smith was a fraud and a false prophet

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of all the different books.

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Speaker 4: In Mormons true. Now, remember this is the book that

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we just referred to the other day due to Posh

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pointing this out to me, and then we had the

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former Mormon who came on for about twenty minutes in

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the livestream talking about the Book of Abraham. It's obviously

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a forgery. It's not anything to do with actual biblical figures.

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It's just old Egyptian funerary texts that Joseph Smith bought Charles.

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What's up? I'll give you guys this video, but this

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guy is going to be just saying the same stuff

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that Posh said and that we said on the other

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stream the other day. So I'm not gonna repeat all that.

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What's up, Chuck, I'm mute, Chuck, I'm mute. Chose a spliff?

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How come people don't I'm mute, man, I don't get it.

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Maybe Twitter's not working right today, Chuck? Did you not

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turn your Chris Smitt I should say, did you not

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turn your mic on? It's like nobody's ever used Twitter

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spaces until they come to my Space Bohemia. What's up?

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Speaker 6: Man?

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Speaker 4: I'll give you guys this link to here if you

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want to read the full article on the Book of

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Abraham right here. What's up?

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Speaker 8: Oh?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 9: Oh?

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Speaker 3: What's the topic?

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Speaker 4: I kind of the topic is all the things listed

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in the topic description? Oh shit?

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Speaker 12: Okay, So I would have a question because I'm deciding

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right now right now.

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Speaker 3: I'm a catechumen.

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Speaker 12: And the Orthodox Church, and uh, I am pretty said

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like I'm not the church hopping. I'm said, I'm becoming Orthodox,

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and this next to your getting baptized. But I had a

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question because I saw an Orthodox priests say that I

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cannot if I am Orthodox, I cannot.

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Speaker 3: Pray with Catholics.

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Speaker 12: And I have a lot of Catholics friends, and I

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one of my friends actually.

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Speaker 3: Is a Catholic priest, and you know, I like Catholics.

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Speaker 12: You know, I'm from I'm from Prague, so there's it's

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a Catholic.

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Speaker 4: You know city. Liking them doesn't equate to being able

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to celebrate liturgically with heterodox groups. That's the teaching of

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the first thousand years of Christianity.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, I guess my question would be like about the prayer,

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Like if I pray with Catholics, do you think that's bad?

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Speaker 3: Like just like an outside the church, you.

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Speaker 4: Might get permission in certain circumstances to do that, but

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in general, the problem is that it suggests that we

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have the same faith and we're all good and it's

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just not true. That's why the agree. I agree, But

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I mean, yeah, I would just like take a case

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by case instead of trying to like find out one

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size fits all situation, because there might be situations where

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you know you need to go to a funeral. I'm

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sure your priests would give you permission to go, but

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you know you could privately pray or something like that

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and not have to join in or something. Maybe vain.

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What's up?

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Speaker 8: Man?

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Speaker 13: Would you say that they are disabled if their descendants

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of case?

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Speaker 8: That was so bad?

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Oh I get it now. I had to

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think for a second. I don't I am not opposed

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to wordplay, so I don't find your wordplay offensive. Vein,

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I commend you.

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Speaker 8: I just thought it was fun.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's okay. Is that it just one little

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bit of wordplay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't want to take up time.

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Speaker 4: That's all right, thank you for that wordplay. Now, guys,

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you can support the stream through super chats, through a

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stream las especially YouTube doesn't take a cut if youse

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00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:05,480
stream labs. The link is pinned in the show description.

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Rolph Stakes became a member for fourteen months? How many

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00:20:09,799 --> 00:20:11,640
months I have to subscribe before you to drop the

303
00:20:12,279 --> 00:20:17,640
next biggest cringe corps banger about Jordan Maxwell. Well, the

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00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,759
problem is if I do it Jordan Maxwell song, nobody

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will get that or know anything about it. But maybe

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I can find some time. I don't know, mister who

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cares five dollars? What do you think about the patriarch

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00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,599
meeting the pope? Not much. I mean these kinds of

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things happen all the time. I'm not a fan of

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either one of them. H Brozi, five dollars. I'll make

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this joke for you, Jay Jay is on now. Ah,

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Brozzie is a black dude, so he says, Jay is

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on inward time. He is truly one of us. I

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have the pass. There you go, an actual brother gave

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me the brother pass. So let it be known henceforth

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and forevermore. I shall not be able to be canceled

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given that the black community has given me honorary pass

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00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,440
being half black. To use the words top jacko maattic

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ten dollars. I was at boot camp for three months.

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My phone just came back to me. What did I miss?

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Oh dude, Oh my gosh, what did you miss? I

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don't know if I can make it through this whole

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Mormon video. Let's just invite the Mormons to come. Well,

324
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,640
what you missed was I completed esoter Colli WITHOO three

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00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:27,680
that will be shipping in about a month. A month

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and a half. I did a podcast tour throughout LA

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and Vegas that was pretty hype. I did whatever debating

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the fraud, not so erudite, and I'm sure all of

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you saw the clip. Once again, Jay Dyer is vindicated,

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and I wish more people would just have faith that

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when I say stuff, I'm probably know what I'm talking about. Now.

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Every now and then I get things wrong, all of

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us do. He's infallible except for the Pope, just kidding.

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Except for the Universal Orthodox Calogy Church. No one else

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is infallible. And I told you guys that aerudite I

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could tell, and Father Deacon as well. Ken I think

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attest to this, who's more advanced in philosophy than I am.

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If you study philosophy and you've done it at a

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graduate level, you can very easily detect when somebody is

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faking it, when they're a sued pretending to know about

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a subject that they have no knowledge of. It works

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to dupe dumb people like the Destiny audience. Many of

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them fall for her her stick, which is to spout

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out a bunch of terms that she reads on chat

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GPTWO right, and I knew in the midst of that

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discussion and I'll just play this one clip here to

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remind you from my team. If you go to my TikTok,

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you'll remember that I asked her a more more than

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once on the second eight hour day that whether or

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not she had read a single text that she could

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recall the name of, and she couldn't tell me. That

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tells me that she's a suit And she just repeats

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what chat GBT tells her. And in the discussion, I

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even said, I guarantee you she just uses chat GPT.

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And this is what like zoomers and younger millennials like,

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they think that intellectualism, academia, being scholastic is literally just

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putting on the front of it. That's what they think

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it is.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, that's a good point.

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Speaker 4: Well, Dave. Dave Smith said this to Tucker the other

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day that the left and liberals and these kinds of

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people and these younger people, they think that as long

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as you pull off being looking like an intellectual or

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talking fast, then you're intellectual.

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Speaker 13: Do you think that's because I mean just kind of

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given the kind of relativistic and realistics kind of cultures

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that they live in, that everything's.

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Speaker 4: Just appearances exactly.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, but have you appredictically derived from your categorical

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imperative a sort of kind of dialectical Uh.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a contra distinction between the superposition of the

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newmena and the phenomena in the Kantian deontological status of normativity.

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It's like you just spout out.

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Speaker 13: Words, yes, my brother, Now would you say that is

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per se at intra or is that an n ray

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dionea dialectical derivation of h.

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Speaker 4: What what?

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Speaker 3: What should I say? Or in other words, uh, descriptive.

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Speaker 4: They're just like, yeah, they're like the Waynes brothers, right,

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remember the skit on in Living Color? When Living Color, Yeah,

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when one of the more the Waynes Brothers is he's

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in prison and he's just he just misuses big words

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to sound smart. That literally all of them are that guy.

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So listen, here's me asking Arad to just name one

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book which happened three times in this nightmare day of

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eight hours of this nonsense acting what you know? You

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could you name one philosophy book that you've read.

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Speaker 14: The Five five Dialogues by Aristotle the Plato Republic.

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Speaker 4: There's no book the Five Dialogues by Aristotle Plato Republic.

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Speaker 13: Those are two books that I've read, So the Five

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Dialogues as yet?

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Speaker 15: Or do you would just want to be in that

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to try to.

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Speaker 4: Get one philosophy book from any philosophers.

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Speaker 9: One philosophy book, it's your public.

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Speaker 4: Did you read that? No? So I asked her to

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name a book she read, and she named a book. Well,

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I didn't read it, but okay, now let's listen to

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00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:49,920
Destiny do the exact same thing. So noticed she's literally

400
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:53,039
just female Destiny. Watch. Okay, can your name when you

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00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:53,440
read it?

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00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 14: Off the top of my it's been very hard to

403
00:25:56,559 --> 00:26:02,079
like read like full books and read a whole person books.

404
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 4: What's your first book? But you're read what's trying to

405
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:10,359
think of a joke.

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Speaker 16: Game?

407
00:26:13,279 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 4: The game? Yeah? Okay, go hilarious culture reference? He okay, continue.

408
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:27,640
So Destiny couldn't name one book. He's reader couldn't name

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00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,200
one philosophy text that she's read, not just a text

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that she's read.

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Speaker 3: I love that she mixed Xeno Xeno's Republic.

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Speaker 4: She said Aristotle's Republic.

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Speaker 3: Oh did she?

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Speaker 4: She said five Dialogues ariosotol Republic.

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Speaker 3: My god, I heard her say Xeno's Republic.

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Speaker 4: To be all up in there, because when you come

417
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,839
to debate, you know what you're talking about. Could you

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00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,079
name one philosophy?

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Speaker 3: Read uh, five.

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Speaker 13: Dialogues by Aristotle Plato Republic.

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Speaker 4: There's the five Dialogues by Aristotle Plato Republic. So just gibberish,

422
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:12,160
right now, what was the point of all that. Let's

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00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,559
see what these bros over here on this podcast. I'm

424
00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:19,880
not familiar with these guys, but shocker, in the midst

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00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,000
of a debate, she's actually using chat GPT, which is

426
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:25,400
exactly what Father Deacon and I have been saying. The

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00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,119
reason that a lot of people don't want to be

428
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:30,400
on video or in a live debate is because they

429
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,960
want to be able to use chat GPT. And what

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00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,359
do you know, this total sued fraud not so erudite

431
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,079
is caught doing that very thing.

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Speaker 14: And then it switches over and oh brother, what is

433
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:54,759
she fucking doing? This is like the IRA, very delayed

434
00:27:54,759 --> 00:27:57,759
and impact. Right, they're good things, but they're delayed and impact.

435
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 4: Hold on, she got But we didn't even need to

436
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:07,680
have this visual confirmation that she does this because we

437
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:11,839
already knew that the way that she talked and the

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00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,000
nonsense that she was spitting out, which is why she

439
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,039
couldn't name a single paper or a single book by

440
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:19,279
any of the so called authors that she's familiar with.

441
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Is because she's just regurgitating what Chad GBD spit out

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00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,240
at her. And she was at a huge disadvantage when

443
00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:29,880
we got into the studios at whatever and Brian was like, no,

444
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,000
we don't need to have your Apple computer over here.

445
00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:35,519
So she actually wanted when we first got there to

446
00:28:35,599 --> 00:28:41,000
have her computer, and she got really nervous when Brian said, no,

447
00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:44,400
you can't use your computer in a live debate. And

448
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,559
if you guys can't see it, like maybe you can

449
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:47,799
see it on the videos. I don't know. But the

450
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,400
entire time that Jim Boberus and I were sitting there

451
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,240
with her the first day of the second day, like

452
00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:55,480
her hands were shaking. That entire time, she was so

453
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:59,440
nervous and so scared because because it's it's fraudulent, and

454
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,960
it's not wrong to call out people that are complete frauds.

455
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,039
People are saying, oh, you were you had a milt

456
00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:08,640
down in that debate. No, no, no, it's to show

457
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,559
it to demonstrate whether it's her or the destinies here

458
00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:15,039
in general, they're all frauds. Destiny couldn't name one book

459
00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:19,400
and therefore he's not educated. So all these people are

460
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,160
like their deity, the deity of the SuDS is Ai

461
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:26,000
and chat GPT, and it's very obvious. It's very easy

462
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,839
to spot when you are aware of this kind of stuff. Anyway,

463
00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:33,440
moving on, enough of that, but I am glad that

464
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,640
that came out because I told you guys, she was

465
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:47,480
a total phony. Caleb, what's up? Hey, j Yo.

466
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,079
Speaker 16: Hey, So basically it's nothing about what we're talking about

467
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:56,559
topic wise, but like probably you get a lot. I'm

468
00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:03,039
kind of inquiring of the Eastern you know, Orthodox realm

469
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:07,000
of things, and.

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Speaker 1: I'm just kind of.

471
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Speaker 16: It's just as that basically the Euchrist and also.

472
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: My confession and stuff like, I'm.

473
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 16: Not my mind around why people that aren't baptized take

474
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:29,240
Eucharist if they do everything else besides you know, being

475
00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:30,039
in the church.

476
00:30:31,839 --> 00:30:34,839
Speaker 4: I don't you cut out? What's the question? Just ull

477
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,359
down the question? W you're cutting out?

478
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 17: Yeah?

479
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,359
Speaker 3: Can you hear me a little bit better?

480
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:43,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, just reset the question.

481
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

482
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,319
Speaker 16: So basically the question is is if you're not baptizing

483
00:30:51,359 --> 00:30:55,720
the church, you obviously then can't take the Eucharist or

484
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,880
you know, do any of like the sacraments, And I'm

485
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,319
just it's kind of confused on why that is just

486
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,200
because you're not baptizing the church.

487
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 4: Well, baptism is the entrance into the church, is the

488
00:31:09,119 --> 00:31:12,920
right of initiation, So why would you be taking up

489
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,839
Christ when you're not initiated yet. So there's just a

490
00:31:16,039 --> 00:31:19,079
logical order or two in the way the New Testament

491
00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:22,279
presents the sacraments. Chuck, what's up?

492
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:26,839
Speaker 8: Bellow?

493
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,799
Speaker 3: Hey, hey, real quick question. What do you think about

494
00:31:31,839 --> 00:31:35,799
the Belluman Bellmont Declaration.

495
00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 4: I'm not a fan of that, Well, so is it?

496
00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:41,759
Speaker 1: The reason I'm asking is is it?

497
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 11: I have a Catholic friend and he was he mentioned

498
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,279
and basically was coming from a position where he was

499
00:31:48,319 --> 00:31:51,160
saying that, you know, this is why Catholics have this

500
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,680
innate ability or worldview where they're gonna.

501
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,559
Speaker 3: Happily, it'll be nice to you.

502
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 8: But the Eastern.

503
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 11: Orthodox is they're they're much more not aggressive. But I

504
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,599
get the way he put it, was trying to steal converts.

505
00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:09,880
And he was like, I don't know, I just is

506
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,240
it not binding?

507
00:32:11,359 --> 00:32:13,359
Speaker 1: I don't really know the terms, but is it.

508
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 4: No, it's just a it's no different than like any

509
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:23,039
other you know, inter religious academic conference or statement. How

510
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:25,480
could how could it be binding? I mean, we're not

511
00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:29,640
papists to where there's this issued, you know, execa theater

512
00:32:29,799 --> 00:32:33,160
statement and everybody's bound by it. No, I'm not bound.

513
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,279
I mean if the if the MP makes a mistake,

514
00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:37,799
we're not bound by it. I don't have to agree

515
00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:42,920
to that. There's no infallible MP, there's no infallible EP.

516
00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:46,240
So I think I'm not faulting you, but I think

517
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,799
it's a papal mindset to think that, Well, don't your

518
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,920
patriarchs make bad statements at times? Don't you have heterodox

519
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,480
patriarchs at times? So how is that any better than

520
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,000
the Catholic position. It's a difference between a systemic defeat

521
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,759
the same type of problem in another system that's not

522
00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:07,039
a systemic defeater. If in the Roman Catholic Church you

523
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,240
had say a bunch of American bishops that were super

524
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:15,920
ecumenist and liberal and saying heterodox things, that wouldn't be

525
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,359
a defeater in the Roman Catholic system, if the Bishop

526
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,440
of Rome was Orthodox or ECU mean, the Bishop of

527
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,160
Rome was still orthodox in the little O sense. But

528
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,880
if the Bishop of Rome begins to teach the heterodox things.

529
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,000
That's a system level defeater because it denies Vatican One.

530
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:35,400
In the Orthodox Church, if all the bishops are decentralized

531
00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:39,839
and one bishop says something erroneous, it's not de facto

532
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:45,680
heresy because it's wrong. It's heresy. I mean, it could

533
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,160
be heterodox, but it requires a senat or some condemnation

534
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:53,319
of the statement before everyone is bound by that. You

535
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:57,079
see what I'm saying. So it's two different ecclesiologies where

536
00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:01,519
one problem might not be a system for the other system.

537
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,480
But I don't understand why people. People just can't grasp this.

538
00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:06,519
I'm not talking about you, but like no one seems

539
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:10,719
to be able to grasp systemic level defeaters. If I

540
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,119
have two Roman Catholic dogmatic teachings that contradict, that's that

541
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:18,559
means the system's done. It only takes one one contradiction

542
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,599
between two different statements. And that's why you see the

543
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,920
romancalolis and scramble to try to say, well, it's not infallible,

544
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,960
it doesn't really count, or we can reinterpret it this

545
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:30,960
way right to make it work. It's not that is

546
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,000
not going to be a problem in the orthodox position,

547
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,679
because we don't have the view that any individual bishop

548
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,599
or patriarch is infallible or can never teach error. And

549
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,559
I just don't understand how people can't get this. Is

550
00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:49,559
it that difficult to understand that one problem could be

551
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:53,119
a system level defeater for one system and not for

552
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:56,679
another because it's a different system. If we had the

553
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,280
position that the patriarch gets or the EP or the

554
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,800
MP were infallible, then it would also be a defeat

555
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,599
for our system. But we don't have that view. So

556
00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:11,960
it's like no one can It's like they can't conceive

557
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,079
of what an internal critique is designed to do. Now,

558
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:18,559
as to your Catholic friend's statement that we're stealing converts,

559
00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:21,079
we don't believe that the Roman Catholic Church is half

560
00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:23,719
of the church. We don't believe that it is the church.

561
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,760
So the Church is a single, unified, communal entity. It's

562
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,800
not a divided entity for the last thousand years that

563
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,440
hopefully we can heal and bring back together. The Roman

564
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,079
Catholic Church is not the church. It is, as mark

565
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:44,559
of market EPHISI has said, a para synagogue. It is

566
00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:49,000
an extra ecclesial entity that operates more like a cult.

567
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,599
It's not as bad as Mormonism, but it is many

568
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:56,239
in many ways similar to Mormonism, because the Pope can

569
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,119
just revise and restate and redefine things to make this

570
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,679
system unfalsifiable. It's just it's just it's like the Mormon

571
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,000
said when he called in the other day. So the

572
00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:06,760
reason I didn't go Catholic is like I didn't see

573
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,760
a huge difference between the prophets that had new revelations

574
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,199
in the Mormon sphere and the pope and his new

575
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:21,320
execa theater teachings, right, whatever they may be. It's just

576
00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:24,039
really weird that it's like so hard for people to

577
00:36:24,199 --> 00:36:27,880
understand a systemic level defeater.

578
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a comment on that, I would say to

579
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,679
the guy, like, think about it.

580
00:36:34,199 --> 00:36:37,119
Speaker 13: Nestorius was the patriarch of Constantinople for three years before

581
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:37,679
he was condemned.

582
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,039
Speaker 3: Would we have had to have been an historian?

583
00:36:40,119 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like that's where I go.

584
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,559
Speaker 3: It's like, how do we solve it before was clearly.

585
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:48,679
Speaker 4: Right, and even Cyril didn't immediately lackt like you know

586
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,880
that the idea was to have a council right to

587
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,719
deal with that church wide issue. Z. What's up? But

588
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,559
thank you've been in a team for a good point.

589
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: Any of me. Yep I said a question about transcendental arguments,

590
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,599
if that was all right?

591
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, FDA's here.

592
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,559
Speaker 18: Yeah, So I came across this critique about transcendental arguments,

593
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:15,360
and it was essentially that from a skeptical position, all

594
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,039
a transcendental argument can do is show what you ought

595
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:19,960
to believe, not what is actually true.

596
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 4: Now that's the very strou position. So we agree with

597
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,039
Barry Stroud's critique of transcendental arguments. But the transcedental argument

598
00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:31,320
for God is different because it's a systemic level argument.

599
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,599
It's not just a transcendental argument.

600
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 1: Right, what would be like the meaningful difference between those.

601
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 4: Because transcendental arguments can only show what ought to be

602
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,840
the case or what works within some conceptual scheme. But

603
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:51,239
the transcendental argument for God is a precondition for the

604
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:52,679
possibility of any schemes.

605
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, I got it.

606
00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 18: Yeah they were They were just arguing that, like from

607
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,679
a skeptical position where you wouldn't have access to that

608
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,360
kind of thing, it was hard to show.

609
00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:07,679
Speaker 1: How your mental state related to the world in that sense.

610
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, we actually use that argument. So when we get

611
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:14,679
people that come on and say that all I need

612
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,320
to do is show that the other positions are incoherent. Well,

613
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,519
that doesn't necessarily mean that your position's true. So you

614
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:24,320
need a stronger presentation than that to get epistemic justification.

615
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,039
For example, in the Manion paper, he points out that

616
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:33,039
just having a systemic coherence isn't even enough, because maybe

617
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:36,440
it just appears to us that our worldview or our

618
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:39,199
schema is consistent, but how do we know that it

619
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,239
actually applies to the world. And that's precisely the type

620
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,280
of critique that Manion makes of why you need more

621
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,039
than just the appearance of coherence or rationality.

622
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: Oh, thanks, Manu Chef. Anywhere I can read.

623
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 3: Up about them?

624
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Manion paper, Russ Manun's.

625
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:57,559
Speaker 1: Paper, Okay, thank you man.

626
00:38:57,639 --> 00:39:05,039
Speaker 4: What's it called for? The Deacon father digging? Are you there?

627
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:14,599
I guess you had to step away. It's a revelatory theism.

628
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:16,119
I forget the full name of it.

629
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's up, chair? You know I got a question

630
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,639
on evolution. Is that under the topics?

631
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: I guess?

632
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 4: Yeah?

633
00:39:31,079 --> 00:39:34,119
Speaker 19: So I So I've been thinking about your the argument

634
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:38,519
you made that death doesn't enter the world before before

635
00:39:38,599 --> 00:39:40,880
the fall, And so I have a friend who brought

636
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,519
up the objection that, well, if if if there was

637
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:47,440
no death, how did any animal that was a carnivore?

638
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 4: How did the already answered this? And that's because the

639
00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:55,599
entire structure of the world changed after the fall, so

640
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,239
they were not they were not eating animals prior to

641
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,400
the fall. But thank you for that question. Just read

642
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:02,760
you could even if you don't want to read the

643
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,239
full Genesis Creation Early Man, which has been reprinted, you

644
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,599
could read First Created Man by Saint Simeon Blessed Chungas.

645
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:22,920
What's up Eastern Orthodoxy? Ten rons, what's the difference between

646
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,400
begetting and proceeding? Sam Basil says that there is a difference.

647
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:27,639
We know what the difference is.

648
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 6: We do not know.

649
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,679
Speaker 4: But if you think that this is somehow necessitating the philioque,

650
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:37,360
then you are sadly mistaken. The difference is that there's

651
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,039
a relation between the father and the son, that is

652
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:42,679
not the relationship between the father and the spirit. But

653
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,760
what the nature of the difference is, The Cappadocians say,

654
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,960
we do not know. So this is apathetic theology, and

655
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,440
all you need to distinguish the persons is their relationship

656
00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:56,639
to the source, the Father. That's all you need. You

657
00:40:56,679 --> 00:40:59,800
don't have to define the difference. In fact, no one

658
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:00,840
can to find the difference.

659
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,119
Speaker 3: What's up, man, can you hear me?

660
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:06,679
Speaker 6: Uh huh?

661
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 20: All right, So I'm Catholic. I'm been Catholic for about

662
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,480
a year, and I'm kind of new to the whole

663
00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:22,119
Christian world in general. Recently, I've been really liking your videos,

664
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:29,920
especially the ones on deconstructing movies and storylines. Before I

665
00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:32,280
was Christian, I really liked like Slap Boys, I Can

666
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,159
Crawl Young, and the kind of deconstructionist stuff. And anyways,

667
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,239
I heard you say in one of your videos that

668
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:44,559
when you converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy, you said something

669
00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:48,639
like you were freed from something about Thomism, that you

670
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,920
didn't like Thomism.

671
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:51,679
Speaker 4: Or you found it kind of like.

672
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 3: Burdens some or not coherent or something like that.

673
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,559
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I was very interested in into Thomism

674
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:01,639
for most of my and I thought it was this great,

675
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,039
elegant system, and then I realized that it has problems

676
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:08,840
and I was able to eventually just admit that it's

677
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:09,719
a failed system.

678
00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 20: So I'm curious if you could in a short word

679
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,320
maybe describe what is the major problem of Thomism.

680
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 4: Thomas Aquinas teaches a reductive identity thesis notion of what

681
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:30,320
divine simplicity is, which essentially undercuts the trinity and the

682
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,480
incarnation and the reality of uncreated grace. He teaches that

683
00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:38,599
grace in itself is a created thing, all of which

684
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,840
undoes the reality of our salvation and glorification.

685
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 20: So I know, okay, I can't just all of that,

686
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,360
but I'll try to reduce it for my brainlet status.

687
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,679
But so I know that there's major distinctions between Catholicism

688
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,840
and Orthodoxy, like theologically like essence energies distinction, and maybe

689
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:07,519
some of these.

690
00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 4: Ryan Rome teaches that via the denial of the essence

691
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,000
inner distinction, grace is a created reality.

692
00:43:16,599 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 20: By the essence energy distinction, Grace is created reality by.

693
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 4: Rome's denial of the essence energy distinction. They necessarily then

694
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:30,840
dogmatized their position that the grace that we partake of

695
00:43:31,159 --> 00:43:33,039
is itself a created reality.

696
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll research that more on my own.

697
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,639
Speaker 20: And I have a broader question to ask just about

698
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:52,559
sure Catholic Orthodox split because I heard you talking to

699
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,079
that Orthodox guy from Prague about how Orthodox are not

700
00:43:57,159 --> 00:44:00,400
supposed to, you know, pray with athletics.

701
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,039
Speaker 3: I mean that sort of makes sense to me because

702
00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:06,159
you know, I would not go pray in a Protestant

703
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,079
church or something like that.

704
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,199
Speaker 20: Right, I'm wondering this the vibe between Orthodox and Catholicism

705
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:17,159
come down to, like these theological issues like essence energy

706
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,960
is distinction or is it like more of a historical

707
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:22,360
political split.

708
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,199
Speaker 4: No, it's theological, and everybody who thinks that it's political

709
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:32,480
is sadly mistaken. I mean there are political elements, geopolitical,

710
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,800
historical developments that resulted from it and contributed to it,

711
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,039
like the Carolinians, But the essence of the fissure is

712
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,320
a totally different triadology, a different doctrine of grace, a

713
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:50,360
different doctrine of sacraments, a different ecclesiology. I mean, it's

714
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:51,039
totally different.

715
00:44:53,039 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I'm just I'm just kind of learning the song.

716
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I would say, go back through a

717
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,000
lot of the old, you know, videos that we've done

718
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,760
on my channel. You can find a whole host of

719
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,519
stuff that will cover that stuff. But yeah, I welcome

720
00:45:07,519 --> 00:45:10,239
the questions. I appreciate that. Devon what's up.

721
00:45:16,519 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 1: Hello.

722
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:22,599
Speaker 3: Uh huh, Hey, my name is DeVaughn. I. Uh, I

723
00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:23,360
am a Protestant.

724
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 8: Uh.

725
00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 21: I want to say I appreciate your videos and the

726
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,039
work you do. It's really kind of opened up a

727
00:45:29,039 --> 00:45:30,800
whole in the world for me. I never really had

728
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,519
any sort of access to the Orthodox paradimonds I started

729
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:34,320
watching your videos.

730
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:35,079
Speaker 8: Uh.

731
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: But uh I so, I think one of the biggest light.

732
00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:42,559
Speaker 21: Bulbs for me was the distinction that you pointed out

733
00:45:42,559 --> 00:45:47,639
between individual certitude and normative authority. And I'm trying to

734
00:45:47,679 --> 00:45:49,840
make sense of how to deal with that tension when

735
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:51,920
they're in conflict. And so maybe I'm just maybe it's

736
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,039
more of a personal question, but how how have you

737
00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:56,480
dealt with that on your journey and making sense of

738
00:45:56,519 --> 00:46:00,440
all of this between what is considered normative versus individual

739
00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:04,199
certitude and responsibility to the truth and what you feel

740
00:46:04,199 --> 00:46:07,079
like maybe you'll be help responsible for personally, you know,

741
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:12,079
before God. I don't know if that makes sense.

742
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 4: I mean the two I mean, I'm not meaning to

743
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,960
be flippant, but I mean the two things are pretty

744
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:21,400
obviously different. Things like me and my own personal journey

745
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,159
coming to certainty about this or that doctrine or this

746
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,119
or that position is a different question from is there

747
00:46:29,199 --> 00:46:33,800
a historical group of people that can bind people's conscience?

748
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,760
Those are two different questions. So I mean, I think

749
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:40,280
I will be held accountable for all the stuff that

750
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,519
I talked about and my life like everyone else. Maybe

751
00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:51,199
I have more culpability responsibility because of the audience. Okay,

752
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:55,119
but I guess I'm not. Are you confused on the

753
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:58,320
difference between these two things. It's the difference between do

754
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:03,000
I know what the institution says? Versus is there a

755
00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:05,920
Supreme court that interprets the constitution? They're two different things.

756
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:07,639
Speaker 3: I get what you're saying.

757
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,679
Speaker 21: Yeah, Yeah, I think as I've tried to sort through

758
00:47:10,679 --> 00:47:12,719
some of these things and try to understand the historical

759
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,039
church more obviously as a Protestant, a lot of things

760
00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:17,119
come into conflict with what I've been taught, right, right,

761
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,360
So yeah, I'm just trying to make sense of like

762
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,800
there's this tension there between you know.

763
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 3: What, I'm certain about it.

764
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,079
Speaker 4: Let's put it this way, right, Let's put it this way.

765
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,360
Set aside the issue of personal certainty. It's a fact

766
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:36,760
that historically, when the Reformation happened, the Reformation, even though

767
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,159
they wanted to have some notion of elders or bishops

768
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,280
or whatever, whether it's Anglicans or Lutherans or Presbyterians. The

769
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:52,280
fundamental idea that is necessary to the Reformation is write

770
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,320
a private interpretation and freedom of conscience. Write a private

771
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,400
interpretation is not do you read the books and interpret them.

772
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,920
What it means is no one can bind me to

773
00:48:04,159 --> 00:48:08,079
their interpretation, Okay, okay. And freedom of conscience meaning that

774
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,400
my conscience is not bound by any external authorities telling

775
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,360
me what the word of God means. Yeah. That is

776
00:48:14,559 --> 00:48:18,760
irreconcilable with the way that the first fifteen hundred years

777
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,559
of Christianity operated, where you do have a recognized, visible

778
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,119
authority structure that can bind people's conscience, and that no

779
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,719
one is granted the right of private interpretation. The right

780
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,920
of private interpretation is not can I interpret the text myself?

781
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,280
Of course everyone has to. But the difference is that

782
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,199
for an orthodox person you interpret them the way the

783
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,199
Church tells you to interpret them. For a Protestant, there's

784
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,039
no authoritative church that can bind my conscience. That's the difference.

785
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,159
Speaker 21: Yeah, okay, And can I ask one more question about tradition?

786
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,840
So I'm trying to sort through because I really appreciate this.

787
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,440
I mean, honestly, I feel like allowing tradition to help

788
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,519
me interpretscripture as actually give me a lot more freedom

789
00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:08,039
to think about these things more clearly. But is there

790
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:11,280
is there a hierarchy of tradition or different degrees of

791
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,039
authority dependent upon the source of tradition, i e. The

792
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:17,519
councils versus I don't know, you.

793
00:49:17,519 --> 00:49:19,639
Speaker 4: Know what I mean, Like, I mean, a council would

794
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,039
A council would have more authority than some you know,

795
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:27,519
individual saints speculation. That's why we hold the councils above

796
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:32,559
Augustine's on the Trinity constant and up one out ranks

797
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:36,840
Augustine's trinitarian speculations on you know, on the Trinity. That's

798
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,000
why we don't believe the Philly okuay okay okay cool.

799
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,639
Speaker 21: And so is the first seven documental councils kind of

800
00:49:43,679 --> 00:49:47,199
are at the top rung or top tier tradition.

801
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 4: There's nine authoritative universally received councils, not seven, but eight

802
00:49:52,559 --> 00:49:56,440
and nine. Well, eight deals with the rejection of the philioquay,

803
00:49:56,679 --> 00:50:00,559
and then not nine deals with the acceptance of holamite

804
00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:05,400
essen syner distinction theology so technically speaking, most of the

805
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,719
Christology is summed up in the first seven, but eight

806
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,880
and nine are also you could call them universal, pan

807
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,840
Orthodox received synods, so they're all authoritative.

808
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 21: Okay, okay, I think, can I one last question? What

809
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,840
are the like epistemological means that you use or maybe

810
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:28,519
the churches determine whether something's infallible versus not infallible, that

811
00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:29,280
that sort of thing.

812
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 4: Well, there are general principles like we're gonna believe that

813
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,079
the dogmatic teaching of an ecumenical council or divine revelation

814
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:43,039
is what's infallible, but there is no there is no

815
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:48,599
Roman Catholic list of all the infallible things. It doesn't exist.

816
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,159
Then none of the positions can give you that. Rome

817
00:50:53,199 --> 00:50:54,719
doesn't give you that either, by the way, not that

818
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:56,199
you're tempted with it, but a lot of times and

819
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,199
when I say that, Roman Catholics say, oh, look he

820
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,360
doesn't have it. No one has it. There is no

821
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:02,800
list of all there is no infallible list of the

822
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:08,440
infallible statements. For example, scripture is inspired. Okay, yeah, and

823
00:51:08,559 --> 00:51:13,000
then you've got the liturgy as another aspect of divine revelation.

824
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,639
So it's I think, functionally impossible to list all of

825
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,000
the infallible statements in some infallible declaration. So what you

826
00:51:21,079 --> 00:51:24,480
do have is the direct experience in the Orthodox Church

827
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:26,920
which will lead you to those things. But there is

828
00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:33,199
no extra extra sensory, juridical perfect list of these things.

829
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:33,880
They don't exist.

830
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 3: Okay.

831
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,159
Speaker 21: So is there a distinction between infallibility and divine revelation

832
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,039
or are those to the same.

833
00:51:40,039 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 3: As the same thing?

834
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 8: Uh?

835
00:51:42,039 --> 00:51:45,639
Speaker 4: No, I think they're distinct because divine revelation ceased with

836
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,519
the depth of the Apostles. There's no new divine revelations,

837
00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:52,800
and every every cult is premised on there being new

838
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:57,159
divine revelations that are binding on the public, and thus

839
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,840
some new prophet. But we are told that the faith

840
00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:02,360
once we're all delivered to the saints, and so the

841
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,119
totality of the apostolic deposit. When John the Apostle died,

842
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,360
that's it. There's no more new revelations. There's no more

843
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,920
uh apostolic deposit that can be added to what the

844
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,239
ecumenical councils are doing, even though they don't have it.

845
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,920
They're they're in errant, they're not making mistakes in their

846
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:24,000
interpretation of that revelation. They're all they're doing is interpreting

847
00:52:24,639 --> 00:52:28,440
the apostolic deposit Okay, cool with that, Okay, and we

848
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,719
would say that that interpretation is infallible. It doesn't like

849
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,239
the Council of Ephesis didn't make errors, like Voice of

850
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,000
Reason says.

851
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, cool, Well, I appreciate you, thank you v.

852
00:52:41,559 --> 00:52:43,599
Speaker 4: But I would say too that there has to be

853
00:52:43,679 --> 00:52:46,239
flexibility as well, which some people fall into this mistake

854
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,280
where they think that, well, wait a minute, you said

855
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,599
ephesis can't err. So that means that everything Ephesis says

856
00:52:51,679 --> 00:52:54,039
is equivalent to divine revelation is an infallible That's the

857
00:52:54,159 --> 00:52:57,800
canons are infallible. Canon law, by its very nature, has

858
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,360
to be flexible and cannot be equivalent to divine revelation.

859
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:04,320
It's church law. It's not the same thing as divine revelation.

860
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,280
I think you have to distinguish these things or else

861
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,800
you'll end up in absurd positions. So a lot of

862
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:14,119
times when I bring this up, rigorists act like I'm

863
00:53:14,159 --> 00:53:17,239
being some kind of modernist liberal and oh diar doesn't

864
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,960
think the councils are infallible. Well, if you look at

865
00:53:21,039 --> 00:53:25,840
the complexity of say, when Richard Price, you know, translates

866
00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:29,840
the councils. There's a host of documents that are part

867
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,559
of the councils. There's letters from bishops, there's opinions that

868
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:37,639
are given, there's debates, there's dogmatic statements, there's confessions of faith,

869
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:43,239
there's Acts of the Council. Okay, they're not all equivalent,

870
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,400
and Roman Catholics will go through those. It's the very

871
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,280
thing ubi brought up in the Voice of Reason debate.

872
00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:51,159
Roman Catholics will go through those quote mine and look

873
00:53:51,199 --> 00:53:55,280
for anything that supports Roman premascy and ignore what the

874
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,320
document actually was. What a leegate giving his opinion that

875
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,480
binding on the entire church, unless you presuppose that it

876
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:05,760
can't want papal supremacy to begin with. So you see

877
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,400
how silly. This is the same attitude that the Roman

878
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:13,000
Catholics do when they mine the councils for papal stuff.

879
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,599
Psycho rigorous point zero five percent online Orthodox people will

880
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,360
mine the canons to find some way to call everybody

881
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,440
a heretic and apostate a modernist. When you literally cannot

882
00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:28,119
follow every canon, it's it's just insane. So there has

883
00:54:28,199 --> 00:54:32,480
to be some degree of flexibility with church law. And

884
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:35,440
by the way, whether you're Orthodox or Roman Catholic, both

885
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,559
believe in a degree of flexibility for canon law for

886
00:54:38,679 --> 00:54:41,599
church law, Father, deacon, what would you call this like

887
00:54:41,679 --> 00:54:45,440
even civil law operates this way where not everything is

888
00:54:45,519 --> 00:54:48,119
black and white. You don't just follow the letter of

889
00:54:48,159 --> 00:54:52,760
the law. There has to be flexibility with the interpretation

890
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:57,079
of law, and that's why you have judges. Are you there,

891
00:55:00,199 --> 00:55:05,159
follow deacon? Right there, We can't hear you, but maybe

892
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,559
maybe you're out of a no, maybe there's no signal

893
00:55:11,599 --> 00:55:19,599
where you are agent zero. Yeah, there's economia and a crevia, right,

894
00:55:19,679 --> 00:55:24,559
so there's precision as well as flexibility. What's up?

895
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 1: Hello? Hello, Yeah, Hey, what's up?

896
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 18: Kay?

897
00:55:30,079 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 17: Hey, hey, I have a geopolitical statement.

898
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:34,079
Speaker 1: I believe that's it.

899
00:55:34,639 --> 00:55:38,039
Speaker 17: Okay, so it's about your previous dream.

900
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,199
Speaker 8: About because I called it, but my call dropped about is.

901
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,039
Speaker 3: Tiny mustache Man a tool?

902
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 17: Yes he is, and he's currently being used as one,

903
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:54,360
particularly as you know you covered in these online groups

904
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,480
like MKU and the Order of Nine Angels and all

905
00:55:57,519 --> 00:56:00,440
that stuff. So I think these people kind of like

906
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,440
young and dumb getting into this stuff. I don't think

907
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,280
they realize what it kind of leads to, and that

908
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:10,519
they could end up a dupe in something a lot

909
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:15,199
more nefarious and terrifying. And it's also being used as

910
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:20,559
a tool on the left to obviously kind of degrade

911
00:56:22,199 --> 00:56:23,440
the conservative movement.

912
00:56:24,639 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Sure,

913
00:56:27,119 --> 00:56:30,480
I know we know for sure within the Satanic groups

914
00:56:31,199 --> 00:56:36,039
that they utilize that tiny mustache men aesthetic and ethos

915
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,880
right to a degree. And I would not be surprised

916
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,079
if it's not used on a broader scale with people

917
00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:45,360
like Yay or whoever. Can't prove that, but it wouldn't

918
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:46,000
be surprising.

919
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,679
Speaker 1: Yes, I totally agree with you on Matja.

920
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 17: I think it's also used as a type of weird

921
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:53,079
culture war syop.

922
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:53,519
Speaker 6: Right.

923
00:56:54,840 --> 00:57:01,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, appreciate that. Now people are saying, it doesn't

924
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:03,920
matter whether I'm here or whether I'm at the other place.

925
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:09,199
I've had the two different internet companies come out twice,

926
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,679
excuse me, at both places, probably here, probably ten times,

927
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:16,559
and it doesn't matter what they do. It doesn't matter

928
00:57:16,599 --> 00:57:19,760
how many times they change the hub at the neighborhood.

929
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,239
It doesn't matter, nothing matters. It doesn't you can't get

930
00:57:25,719 --> 00:57:29,360
a business connection here. I've tried everything so the people

931
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,360
that wind and complain about the Internet, there's nothing else

932
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,960
I can do. I'd have to buy a studio and

933
00:57:36,199 --> 00:57:38,719
it has to be in town somewhere to where you

934
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:43,400
could get like a studio or like a business level

935
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:47,039
internet connection. I've had them replace the whole line at

936
00:57:47,079 --> 00:57:54,599
both houses. It doesn't work. There's nothing that Exfinity comcasts

937
00:57:54,679 --> 00:57:59,000
or any of those things. They can't do anything. Yes,

938
00:57:59,239 --> 00:58:02,800
So in order to get you don't understand it, guys,

939
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:04,559
I've called them I don't know how many times. In

940
00:58:04,679 --> 00:58:11,199
order to get business fiber, you have to be in

941
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,199
city limits. It doesn't matter if I use the Ethernet cable.

942
00:58:16,519 --> 00:58:18,440
None of that matters. It doesn't get It's not even better.

943
00:58:19,559 --> 00:58:20,239
Speaker 3: Can you hear me out?

944
00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:23,599
Speaker 4: Yeah? Would you like to comment on law and how

945
00:58:23,719 --> 00:58:26,920
law works? That it like even law in the secular sense.

946
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,159
You can't understand it as like a totally black and

947
00:58:30,239 --> 00:58:31,519
white spirit of law thing.

948
00:58:32,719 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 13: Well, again, one of the things that I think that

949
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,440
is either influenced by or.

950
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 3: In terms in.

951
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 13: Roman Catholicism, remember we were saying, is thoroughly Cartesian. And

952
00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:53,880
I keep noticing this kind of this this theme, don't you.

953
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,320
So it's kind of mathematical certitude.

954
00:58:57,679 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 3: And but yeah, look there's nothing in life that's that's

955
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:09,599
really like that other than mathematics. But yeah, law.

956
00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:15,559
Speaker 13: Again, you have rules, and you have a precedent do

957
00:59:15,639 --> 00:59:20,119
you appeal to? But the judge has to use and

958
00:59:20,199 --> 00:59:23,280
what's really interesting, what do we always say virtue epistemology.

959
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,519
The judge has to use their discernment.

960
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, whether this applies, but they have a rule, you

961
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:31,840
can it.

962
00:59:32,239 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 13: They have a precedent, they have something that goes so

963
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,559
they're not just a whimsical you know, make it up

964
00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:42,480
as they go along, judge. But it comes in different degrees.

965
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,400
They can apply that in different that there's nuance and

966
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,280
stuff like this. So it's really strange that and you

967
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,519
see it is an orthodox too. It's not just Romancholtics,

968
00:59:52,559 --> 00:59:57,320
but I think people who convert to Orthodoxy you can

969
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,199
have that that kind of ridget everything has to be

970
01:00:00,639 --> 01:00:02,800
I have to have a list of the infallible stuff,

971
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,880
and then like everything in the council has to be infallible.

972
01:00:06,039 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 8: That and it's just.

973
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 3: That's not even what it's about.

974
01:00:13,519 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 13: It's not about getting an infallible Cartesian list of.

975
01:00:19,519 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 8: And what do I call it.

976
01:00:20,519 --> 01:00:21,719
Speaker 3: It's abstractionism.

977
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 13: It's like, congratulations, you made a cartesian abstract, mathematical dungeons

978
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,519
and dragons game in your head, Like.

979
01:00:31,199 --> 01:00:32,119
Speaker 3: That's not going to save you.

980
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:33,559
Speaker 13: It's not going to heal you.

981
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 3: And these people are just you know, algorithm worshipers. Like,

982
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:40,280
I don't know what to say.

983
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,119
Speaker 4: He's not talking about tag He's talking about the people

984
01:00:47,159 --> 01:00:51,000
who think that church law is somehow like divine revelation.

985
01:00:51,159 --> 01:00:53,239
And it's the same attitude the Pharisees. Right if you

986
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,960
think about if you go back and listen to the

987
01:00:56,039 --> 01:00:59,159
debate that we had with Dale, a Protestant. It was

988
01:00:59,199 --> 01:01:02,079
me and doctor Branson versus Dale and some of his

989
01:01:02,199 --> 01:01:06,079
Protestant buddies. If you listen to that debate, doctor Branson

990
01:01:06,159 --> 01:01:10,159
makes the point that the way that the Old Testament

991
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:14,199
Israelite system was set up was the same structure as

992
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,079
the way the Orthodox Church is structured. So you had

993
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:21,079
like a group of you know, Leevites, or a group

994
01:01:21,239 --> 01:01:26,639
of sages or rabbis. The rabbinical system comes from Ezra,

995
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,760
for example, and it's their job to interpret the law

996
01:01:31,519 --> 01:01:35,079
and come up with the right interpretation and to judge

997
01:01:35,159 --> 01:01:38,440
between the parties. You see this with Solomon, for example.

998
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,760
That's why Solomon's always talking about judging wisely and not

999
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,159
taking a bribe and and so forth, because he's trying

1000
01:01:44,199 --> 01:01:47,199
to set the principle that Father Digging just outlined of

1001
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,920
a virtuous judge versus just some sort of weird obsessive

1002
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,159
legalists or some sort of weird you know, letter of

1003
01:01:55,199 --> 01:01:56,320
the law over the spirit of the law.

1004
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:56,559
Speaker 3: Right.

1005
01:01:56,599 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 4: You find that throughout the way Solomon judges and speaks.

1006
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:05,599
So that's in the law itself. Now, when you get

1007
01:02:05,639 --> 01:02:10,119
to the Pharisees, they're a great example of one extreme

1008
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:16,000
where they engage in all kinds of misuses of the law,

1009
01:02:16,039 --> 01:02:18,480
as Jesus points out in Matthew twenty two to twenty three,

1010
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:23,480
et cetera, where they highlighted the smaller matters and neglected

1011
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:25,440
the weightier matters of the law, so that lets us

1012
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,239
know there's obviously weightier matters that matter more than the lesser,

1013
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:36,239
weightier matters. They would focus on tithing small amounts of

1014
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:39,800
spices and whatever, and they would hate their brother, right,

1015
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,719
So it's like, what's more important whether you love somebody

1016
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,800
or whether you tithe mint and Cuman? Right, It's like

1017
01:02:46,159 --> 01:02:49,400
it's backwards so they would engage in all kinds of

1018
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:55,000
skullduggery to bypass what the law actually taught. So that's

1019
01:02:55,159 --> 01:03:01,440
one rigorous type of extreme misuse of law that Paul

1020
01:03:01,599 --> 01:03:05,599
is quite often in the New Testament disgusting and rebuking

1021
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,199
and Jesus too, right, But you can also have the

1022
01:03:08,199 --> 01:03:12,239
opposite extreme, which was the Sadducees, who basically were superlibs,

1023
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,840
didn't believe in anything like angels or resurrection or souls,

1024
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,559
as they were naturalistic. They were the libs, and Jesus

1025
01:03:19,639 --> 01:03:22,039
calls them hypocrites too, but he has the most extreme

1026
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,760
condemnations actually of the Pharisees. It's actually worse to be

1027
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:31,320
some kind of legalistic law worshiper or authority worshiper, right,

1028
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:33,559
And I would say that you in Rome, for example,

1029
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:37,360
you get this tendency where Roman Catholics worship authority and

1030
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:42,280
they worship laws, and that's just really the whole spirit

1031
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,280
is contrary to what the New Testament I think is

1032
01:03:46,519 --> 01:03:48,280
teaching when it comes to Christ. I mean, how many

1033
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,559
times did Jesus say that the apostles are not to

1034
01:03:51,679 --> 01:03:54,280
lord it over one another. The apostles are not there

1035
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:58,519
to act like kings and lords, and the very thing

1036
01:03:58,599 --> 01:04:03,280
that the Bishop Rome becomes like the ultimate example of that.

1037
01:04:03,519 --> 01:04:05,679
He's the king of kings and emperor of emperor on

1038
01:04:05,719 --> 01:04:07,519
the emperors, on the world, in the world. I mean,

1039
01:04:07,559 --> 01:04:10,199
that's insane. How could anyone like read the New Testament

1040
01:04:10,239 --> 01:04:13,360
and think that the way the papacy acts in terms

1041
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,920
of Middle Ages is anything like the way the New

1042
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:21,199
Testament tells, you know, bishops to be. And I understand, yeah,

1043
01:04:21,239 --> 01:04:23,519
there have been. I'm sure there were corrupt bishops. You know,

1044
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,599
in the Russian Orthodox Church and the Bulgarian Order. There's

1045
01:04:26,599 --> 01:04:31,199
plenty of corrupt bishops, and Orthodox bishops violated the ancient

1046
01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:33,639
canons if they went into battle. I understand all that.

1047
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,800
But it's different in the case of the papacy, precisely

1048
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:43,039
because the papacy makes itself the de facto god on earth,

1049
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,159
and no Orthodox bishop could ever do that.

1050
01:04:51,199 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 3: The wait, what was the question about pat.

1051
01:04:55,000 --> 01:05:00,199
Speaker 4: The tag question was how would you respond to the

1052
01:05:00,239 --> 01:05:03,480
Barry Stroud critique that transcend arguments just show that something

1053
01:05:03,519 --> 01:05:06,719
appears has to be the case logically, but doesn't mean

1054
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,599
that's actually the case. Oh yeah, And I said, well,

1055
01:05:09,599 --> 01:05:10,280
we would agree with.

1056
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,719
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, exactly. We use Barrus Stroud's argument.

1057
01:05:15,239 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 4: So we've just got to.

1058
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:21,079
Speaker 13: Get them to see see the problem is that people

1059
01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:30,440
are operating within all the autonomous epistemological categories. So they're

1060
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:33,360
just thinking, well, they're just doing another thing that I'm doing.

1061
01:05:33,519 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 3: So what makes that argument better?

1062
01:05:36,159 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 13: You have to see the radical disjunt that there is

1063
01:05:39,519 --> 01:05:44,000
no solution of it, the agrippas trum trilemma Barry Stroud.

1064
01:05:44,199 --> 01:05:47,800
What Verry Strouds points out, it's true all of these

1065
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,239
skeptical challenges is absolutely right.

1066
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 3: That's why it's calling to a radical different way.

1067
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 4: You can't do it.

1068
01:05:54,239 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 13: You cannot do it from your position within the space

1069
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,599
of reason alone. I'm an autonomous first of all, because

1070
01:06:02,679 --> 01:06:06,920
you're not a position to know. Oh the way, I

1071
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:13,000
don't have episdemic standing is what Russ's mannion. And so

1072
01:06:13,159 --> 01:06:16,039
the one who is in a position to note, because

1073
01:06:16,079 --> 01:06:20,320
he created the world, he knows somebody who creates something

1074
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:25,119
that stands over and above their creation is obviously in.

1075
01:06:25,159 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 3: A position to know.

1076
01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:32,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, JD has a good response to that guy's question.

1077
01:06:32,719 --> 01:06:36,159
Five dollars. Tag does not simply argue that people need

1078
01:06:36,239 --> 01:06:39,519
to believe X is the case it argues that it

1079
01:06:39,679 --> 01:06:43,039
requires that X is actually the case. Yeah, that's the argument.

1080
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,119
It's two different layers of argument or levels of argument.

1081
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:49,760
Thomas Miles has a great point too about system level defeaters.

1082
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:55,400
The decentralized autocephalis layout is what saves the Orthodox ecclesiastical

1083
01:06:55,519 --> 01:06:59,920
system from the system level defeat that Papism is subject to.

1084
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:04,880
Exactly perfectly stated. Now, good luck trying to get a

1085
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:11,599
Roman Catholic to understand that basic point. Thank you, Jay

1086
01:07:11,639 --> 01:07:15,000
and Father Deacon for all you do. I'm sending you

1087
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:18,360
love from Father Josiah's parish, Ao ten dollars, Thank you, Ao,

1088
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,880
appreciate that Brian ten dollars. I was newly baptized underneath

1089
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:25,800
the EP And I learned that some Russian Orthodox churches

1090
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,360
don't recognize as sacraments. That's not true. I've never heard

1091
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:35,880
that the every Russian church will still recognize the sacraments.

1092
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:39,559
It's just that the two are not in communion, which

1093
01:07:39,559 --> 01:07:42,760
has happened many times. I bought a house here. I

1094
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,920
don't know where you mean here? What challenges will I face?

1095
01:07:46,119 --> 01:07:49,559
I don't where is that? Should I visit us or

1096
01:07:49,599 --> 01:07:53,440
with Orthodox churches? Honestly, dude, I don't know your situation

1097
01:07:53,679 --> 01:07:57,199
or what's going on. It's just I mean, you can

1098
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,280
you're not. I think that's father Deacon off On points out,

1099
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,960
like you're not penalized by visiting another Orthodox church. You're

1100
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,679
free to do that. You don't have to get permission

1101
01:08:07,719 --> 01:08:12,199
to attend another Orthodox church. Andres Palomades became a member

1102
01:08:12,239 --> 01:08:16,000
Aristotle five dollars. Did you know that Derek Mythvision and

1103
01:08:16,119 --> 01:08:18,640
doctor Malpass got together and they had a cope session

1104
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:23,439
about the spankings that you gave them? Well, actually, I

1105
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:26,640
don't know that to be fair, because the Malpass debate

1106
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:29,319
didn't actually ever finish. I wouldn't even call that really

1107
01:08:29,359 --> 01:08:33,399
a spanking. He ended up wanting to just debate whether

1108
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:37,600
or not Aristotle's retortion was a transcendent argument, which I

1109
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,239
don't really care whether it is or is, Like, what

1110
01:08:40,279 --> 01:08:42,279
does that have to do with whether TAG works or not?

1111
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:46,039
That's where he wanted to spend most of that discussion.

1112
01:08:48,119 --> 01:08:52,159
But I think Derek Mythvision is just super low tier,

1113
01:08:52,279 --> 01:08:56,520
so I'm not surprised about that. Henry two dollars, here's

1114
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,960
a big super chat. How big of a super chat

1115
01:09:00,199 --> 01:09:04,560
do I need for you to call yourself, goy, I

1116
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,439
don't think it even requires super chets. Eb jay, here's

1117
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,119
get a better Internet. Sometimes it drops to one frame

1118
01:09:11,159 --> 01:09:13,640
per second. Yeah, I'm aware of that. What do you

1119
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,640
want me to do? So you'll notice right now it

1120
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:19,640
says stream health is excellent, and then it'll drop down

1121
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:23,479
and then it'll come back. I've never been able to

1122
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,880
solve this issue. Like I said, at both houses, I've

1123
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:31,760
had guys come out ten times to work on stuff.

1124
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:36,600
I've also tooled with the OBS frame rate settings and

1125
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,439
the stream rate settings and maybe I just don't know

1126
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:42,359
what I'm doing, but I've never been able to get

1127
01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:46,880
it right, So I don't know. Maybe maybe somebody who

1128
01:09:47,079 --> 01:09:50,159
knows this shit better than me can come figure it out,

1129
01:09:50,199 --> 01:09:54,680
because I don't know what else to do. Like Adrian

1130
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,880
five pounds, here's a wild affirmation. Is bitcoin prop to

1131
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:03,720
in order to purposely collapse it in the USA? I

1132
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,359
don't think that makes any sense because it's decentralized, all right.

1133
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:10,439
I mean again, just think about the Orthodox Church. That'd

1134
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,399
be like saying the Orthodox Church is growing and they

1135
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:15,840
want it to grow because they want to secretly then

1136
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:19,319
collapse it and take it over again. You're missing the

1137
01:10:19,399 --> 01:10:23,680
point and the power of decentralization. So I mean, I

1138
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,479
think if you really wanted to look for a possible

1139
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:30,039
way that bitcoin could be no longer decentralized. A's like

1140
01:10:30,119 --> 01:10:34,279
if somehow you got like all the mining under one conglomerate.

1141
01:10:34,399 --> 01:10:38,720
Maybe in that way it could be manipulated or controlled.

1142
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,880
But if you think about it too, like, no one

1143
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,840
has an incentive to collapse it. If you've got two

1144
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,439
trillion dollars right now of people's money across the world

1145
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:53,680
in bitcoin and it's decentralized, you would have to get

1146
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:58,600
everyone in on the dump and the collapse. Why would

1147
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:02,199
I want to dump the majority of my wealth if

1148
01:11:02,279 --> 01:11:04,760
I have a huge portion of my portfolio and bitcoin,

1149
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,680
it just it would be It makes no sense. So

1150
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,680
I don't think that's a plausible scenario. And I think

1151
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:13,920
if you read about study about bitcoin, you'll see that

1152
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,640
that just really doesn't make any sense. Now, I mean,

1153
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:23,399
if everyone got on something centralized like ether, and the

1154
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,119
whole world in America started running on some sort of

1155
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:32,560
fiat eth system which is centralized, it could be controlled.

1156
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,720
Even if ninety percent of the bitcoin is held by

1157
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,520
one percent of wealthy people, they don't have an incentive

1158
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:40,039
to dump it.

1159
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but have you thought about the quantum computer.

1160
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,319
Speaker 4: No, I've never heard of that, which doesn't even exist.

1161
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,279
By the way, It's like, what if one day, like

1162
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:53,680
quantum bigcoin takes over and it destroys the existing big cooin.

1163
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:55,960
It's like, well, okay, what if one day an asteroid

1164
01:11:56,039 --> 01:11:57,760
destroys the earth? What are you gonna do with your

1165
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,720
bitcoin when the asteroid destroys the earth? What are you

1166
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,720
gonna do? Are you gonna argue with me when we're

1167
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:03,279
all destroyed?

1168
01:12:03,319 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 3: I mean like, yeah, oh one, I won the argument.

1169
01:12:06,079 --> 01:12:06,680
We're all dead?

1170
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:10,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, I want to vindicated. Everyone's dead. Connor became

1171
01:12:10,279 --> 01:12:12,439
a member What's Up? Christopher Scott at five dollars? What's up?

1172
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:18,880
Even though a lot of wealthy people have a large

1173
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,560
amount of Bitcoin, they still don't control the network. You

1174
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:26,239
don't understand that. That's why it's decentralized. Cardano is the

1175
01:12:26,279 --> 01:12:30,840
only decentralized network. Okay, yeah, sure, I don't. I don't.

1176
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:34,039
I'm not. I mean whatever, I'm not gonna have this.

1177
01:12:34,199 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 3: Have you ever heard of them?

1178
01:12:35,039 --> 01:12:35,159
Speaker 8: Uh?

1179
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:37,079
Speaker 3: Have you ever heard of ledye coin?

1180
01:12:39,119 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 4: Well, Hall Old Knights send a super chatter two dollars,

1181
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:48,319
and he says that Father Deans is half Lamanite. What's that?

1182
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,680
That's one of the people groups in the Book of Mormon,

1183
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,199
the Lamanites. Oh say, he says, maybe you should be

1184
01:12:54,239 --> 01:12:55,520
Mormon if you're half Lamanite.

1185
01:12:56,199 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and them half?

1186
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:58,079
Speaker 16: Uh?

1187
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 3: Was it half a quarter net one?

1188
01:13:02,399 --> 01:13:05,159
Speaker 4: When I sent my how tall are you?

1189
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:07,239
Speaker 3: Six foot?

1190
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,239
Speaker 4: That's a quarter You're not you gotta be tall or

1191
01:13:10,279 --> 01:13:11,640
not to be one half net one?

1192
01:13:12,279 --> 01:13:13,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

1193
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:19,279
Speaker 4: Uh, let's see, let's talk God. Five dollars poured a

1194
01:13:19,359 --> 01:13:21,680
funk go in the pot watch it is dire on

1195
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:25,720
that time he got theological riz. I don't know people

1196
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,079
try to When people try to rap about theologies to me,

1197
01:13:28,159 --> 01:13:32,359
it's always cringe. I mean, I don't I appreciate your

1198
01:13:32,399 --> 01:13:36,359
super chat gainer Zilla ten dollars. Do you think it's

1199
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:39,560
consistent that Protestants will say that the immediate successors of

1200
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,039
the Apostles subverted Christianity? No, what would that be consistent?

1201
01:13:43,039 --> 01:13:45,920
I mean, Jesus says very clearly that the gates of

1202
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:49,560
Hell would not prevail against the Church. And I mean

1203
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,119
it's not just Matthew sixteen. If you look at Daniel

1204
01:13:52,159 --> 01:13:56,079
two Daniel two predicts that when the Messiah comes, his

1205
01:13:57,199 --> 01:13:59,840
kingdom is set up, it grows into a giant tree,

1206
01:14:00,399 --> 01:14:03,279
and it takes over all the existing kingdoms. Right, So

1207
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:06,680
what empire did Jesus die under? And was his kingdom

1208
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,920
set up under the Roman Empire? And what in three

1209
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,600
hundred years his kingdom took over the Roman Empire became

1210
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:18,720
the Orthodox Church. So it's predicted throughout the prophets. It's

1211
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,199
not just predicted in Matthew sixteen. How many times does

1212
01:14:21,279 --> 01:14:24,279
Isaiah say that the gentile kings and queens will come

1213
01:14:24,319 --> 01:14:27,239
into the church? Okay, well what church did they come

1214
01:14:27,319 --> 01:14:30,800
into in the fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh,

1215
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:37,399
twelfth century. It's not the Protestant one. Protestants will say

1216
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:39,840
that the Holy Spirit guides them to the invisible Church. Yeah,

1217
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:43,600
that didn't exist, right, that's the Protestant vehicle that they

1218
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:47,760
invented to bypass the Historic Church, which proves that they're

1219
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,760
not members of the Historic Church. Where do any church

1220
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:56,720
fathers teach the invisible church doctrine? Nobody, not even Augustine

1221
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:03,000
teaches the invisible Church doctrine. Nate five dollars, the clip

1222
01:15:03,159 --> 01:15:07,199
of not so aerudit doing her degenerate hand motions, and

1223
01:15:07,319 --> 01:15:09,520
your face when you saw it was hilarious, like what

1224
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:14,079
just happened? That's that's because it was genuine. Scott G

1225
01:15:14,399 --> 01:15:20,039
five A's I just watched I hypocrites video on Glenn Greenwald.

1226
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:25,000
Dear God, that's horrendous. Do you mean Glenn Greenwald's take

1227
01:15:25,119 --> 01:15:27,279
was horrendous or I hypocrite? I have not watched it,

1228
01:15:27,359 --> 01:15:31,279
so I don't know whose position was horrendous, Eastern Orthodox

1229
01:15:31,399 --> 01:15:37,600
Journey or you already did that one. Let's see. Scrolling down,

1230
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:42,920
h Brosy says for five dollars, choppy internet is actually

1231
01:15:43,039 --> 01:15:45,600
based the chat needs to stop whinting. Yeah, that means

1232
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:47,479
they're trying to shut me down. Dude, they're fighting me.

1233
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:51,680
Green bear five dollars. If you were to debate a

1234
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:55,560
Roman Catholic on geopolitics, what would the resolution look like? Uh?

1235
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:59,079
I think the way I framed it was, what is

1236
01:15:59,159 --> 01:16:01,880
a better explanation for the actions of the papacy in

1237
01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:07,960
the last century? An infallible divine terrorism or geopolitical power

1238
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:12,359
block influence? Because the way I would argue that is,

1239
01:16:13,199 --> 01:16:17,479
I think that the geopolitical power block influence is a

1240
01:16:18,039 --> 01:16:24,279
much better explanation than supposed divine guidance and infallible kerorism,

1241
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:29,359
because again, like people don't understand. I remember when I

1242
01:16:29,359 --> 01:16:32,720
was a trad cat, when I first started reading a

1243
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:35,960
lot of like a you know, trad stuff, and a

1244
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,920
lot of stuff about Vatican two. The first thing that

1245
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:40,760
you'll encounter, which by the way, you can actually see

1246
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:43,279
Tim Gordon's kind of at this stage where you know,

1247
01:16:43,399 --> 01:16:46,319
he'll cite AA one, O two five or whatever it

1248
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:50,119
is that supposed you know, KGB infiltration of the Cavic Church.

1249
01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:51,600
And I remember reading that back in the day and

1250
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:53,000
I thought, oh, yeah, that's what it is. And then

1251
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,520
he'll cite ALTA indeeda oh yeah, the Mason's infiltrate the

1252
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,840
caloch Church and and all of that is partially true,

1253
01:16:59,239 --> 01:17:01,960
so it's not totally wrong, but it's like, okay, some

1254
01:17:02,119 --> 01:17:04,840
of this is partly true. This is a puzzle piece.

1255
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:09,000
But it wasn't until I got into doing grad studies

1256
01:17:09,159 --> 01:17:12,279
of studying espionage and psyops and that kind of stuff

1257
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,960
reading the whim Hoff book where you really start to realize, oh,

1258
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,880
so the CIA it was all up in Vatican two,

1259
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,800
and yeah, there's a Jewish role as well. If you

1260
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:30,000
read Gordon Thomas's book, he argues that the Massade wasn't

1261
01:17:30,119 --> 01:17:34,279
really influential in the Vatican until John Paul the Second,

1262
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:39,600
which seems plausible. I'm not saying Massad controls the Vatican,

1263
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:41,319
but I'm just talking about different networks. I think the

1264
01:17:41,399 --> 01:17:45,079
CIA had a much stronger foothold in the Vatican way

1265
01:17:45,159 --> 01:17:47,399
prior to John Paul the Second. But I mean, you've

1266
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:55,279
got normy books and critical books. Whether it's Kaylor's book

1267
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:59,960
or whether it's Paul Williams's book, one's critical of the CIA,

1268
01:18:00,119 --> 01:18:04,479
one is pro CIA. They all admit, like absolutely, John

1269
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,439
Paul teamed up with the CIA to win the Cold War.

1270
01:18:07,199 --> 01:18:09,720
In fact, Kaylor argues that one of the key signs

1271
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:11,560
of the victory of the West and the Cold War

1272
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:16,680
was the not just the John Paul ali Aga assassination attempt,

1273
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,199
but various stuff like photoshops that John Paul the Second

1274
01:18:20,279 --> 01:18:25,279
took that were arranged CIA photo ops. Right, and then

1275
01:18:25,319 --> 01:18:29,479
if you look at the Bush Malta Gorbachew Bush, John

1276
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,479
Paul the Second meeting at Malta, that's a huge concluding

1277
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,319
meeting of the Cold War, setting the stage four where

1278
01:18:36,359 --> 01:18:40,960
we are now, which, by the way, amazingly Again, I

1279
01:18:41,039 --> 01:18:45,000
have some pretty pretty stiff criticisms of some of Max

1280
01:18:45,039 --> 01:18:48,479
Bluementhal's chapters. But the chapter that he just covered on

1281
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:55,279
the neo conservative takeover via net and Yahoo's so Net

1282
01:18:55,359 --> 01:18:59,319
y'aw wrote this paper called clean Break. So after the

1283
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:03,399
assass nation of Yitsuk Rabin, the Lekuds wrote a paper

1284
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:06,640
called clean Break, which was to make a clean break

1285
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:11,840
with the pro plo pro piece attitude that like Yitsuk

1286
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:15,520
Rabin had, and then they brought in this seven Nations

1287
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:21,399
plan that General Wesley Clark famously talked about. Magically, the

1288
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,600
Big Nine event ends up supporting all of that, All

1289
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,600
of that has been That's the other puzzle piece you

1290
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:36,479
see to understanding the wasp Zionist alliance that characterizes the Cold.

1291
01:19:36,319 --> 01:19:37,680
Speaker 8: War and.

1292
01:19:39,159 --> 01:19:43,119
Speaker 4: The state of foreign policy after the Cold War entering

1293
01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:48,359
into a designed and planned war on terror. And so

1294
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:52,000
Max Bloemhald's book is great for that, but I have

1295
01:19:52,319 --> 01:19:58,359
again he's he's two leftists on things like nation states.

1296
01:19:59,079 --> 01:20:06,039
He seems to be quasi socialist. He thinks that geo

1297
01:20:06,079 --> 01:20:08,159
engineering isn't real. I mean it's so it's like I

1298
01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:10,840
have some criticisms obviously in that book, but there's also

1299
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,520
a lot of really good details. They're good information even

1300
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:16,960
though there's criticism. So we'll be getting into this. I'm

1301
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:19,279
almost halfway through the book. It's really good overall. But

1302
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:25,199
Connor began to remember, what's a Christopher Scott? Since five dollars,

1303
01:20:25,279 --> 01:20:32,119
thanks Chris, let's see gainer Zola says for ten dollars,

1304
01:20:32,159 --> 01:20:35,960
you misread my question. I know that Protestants are inconsistent.

1305
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,239
What I mean is a quote fully consistent Protestant. I

1306
01:20:39,239 --> 01:20:43,640
don't know what that means. Do they affirm the immediate

1307
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:47,600
successors subverted the Church? Well, I think in the Protestant

1308
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,840
world you have a range of views. So the only

1309
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:52,960
people that I'm aware of that believe in a complete

1310
01:20:53,039 --> 01:20:57,600
subversion would be Seven day Adventists, Mormons. They're not Protestant,

1311
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:01,039
but they're they have the view that the Church was

1312
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:07,279
the Great Apostles. He happened right after the Apostles. Maybe

1313
01:21:07,319 --> 01:21:13,640
Baptists think that, but what's called the classical Reformation or

1314
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:16,560
the quote magisterial Reformation, which is a retarded term. But

1315
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:21,640
Luther Calvin Zwingley, those people, they believe that the Church

1316
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:27,359
didn't apostatize right away. It just got subverted and infected.

1317
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:29,920
But there was still true Christians, right. Calvin and Luther

1318
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,960
would say that there were true Christians in every century.

1319
01:21:33,319 --> 01:21:33,479
Speaker 3: Right.

1320
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:39,520
Speaker 4: So really it's only an a Baptist that I know

1321
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:44,399
that are quote Protestant that have the view that the

1322
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:51,479
church immediately fell away. That's a classically Anabaptist position, radical

1323
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:55,760
Reformation position. Felt it snake ten pounds. Will you be

1324
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:59,279
doing other shows again? I'm sure I will. I don't

1325
01:21:59,319 --> 01:22:01,399
know as of yet what other shows are doing. What

1326
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,960
about the whatever podcast is that once a year. I

1327
01:22:05,079 --> 01:22:10,199
have no idea. It's up to I mean, I all,

1328
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,359
I just when those people ask me to do shows,

1329
01:22:12,399 --> 01:22:18,000
I'm like, okay, we'll see. Brian asked me to debate Dasha,

1330
01:22:18,199 --> 01:22:20,279
and I just I don't think Dasha wants to do that.

1331
01:22:20,399 --> 01:22:21,840
I asked about it and she was like, oh, I'm

1332
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:24,800
getting married, and I never heard back. So I don't

1333
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:26,359
think she wants to do a debate on there. And

1334
01:22:26,399 --> 01:22:27,920
plus I don't know what we would debate. We'll just

1335
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:31,119
have the same I don't think she's a feminist, so

1336
01:22:31,319 --> 01:22:34,279
I don't know that she would want to debate feminism.

1337
01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:37,239
So The problem is that there's not many people that

1338
01:22:37,239 --> 01:22:40,880
will debate feminism. So you know, basically you got to

1339
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:45,119
get you know, basically Andrew just has to scour the

1340
01:22:45,159 --> 01:22:48,640
internet to find like the most insane feminists that are

1341
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:56,960
willing to debate feminism. Can FDA interpret Wisdom of Solomon?

1342
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:00,279
Speaker 10: I don't.

1343
01:23:00,279 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1344
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:05,600
Speaker 4: It's an odd question. Are you able to interpret? Brother Dickon?

1345
01:23:06,199 --> 01:23:07,479
Somebody asked a weird question.

1346
01:23:08,399 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 10: It was like a.

1347
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:13,079
Speaker 3: Can you interpret the signs?

1348
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:20,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like the Matt slick with Babe. How come

1349
01:23:20,239 --> 01:23:22,359
you don't want to go to any Bible texts. That's

1350
01:23:22,359 --> 01:23:24,840
because you don't like the Bible. You're scared of the Bible,

1351
01:23:25,399 --> 01:23:26,640
or else you would be doing.

1352
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 3: Matt, the Bible is a Protestant book. I ain't going there.

1353
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:36,479
I should have just I should have just trolled them

1354
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:40,800
all more autistic.

1355
01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 13: I kept I basically kept Remember I said I was

1356
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,199
handicapped and a wheelchair or something.

1357
01:23:46,039 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 3: Like that, and he was like, well, I'm autistic, and.

1358
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:51,119
Speaker 4: No I forgot.

1359
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:54,560
Speaker 15: And then what was weird is like I've traveled around

1360
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,800
the country and like people were like, I thought you

1361
01:23:56,840 --> 01:23:57,520
were in a wheelchair.

1362
01:23:57,520 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 4: I thought you were serious I'm like, yeah, but now

1363
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:03,439
you are, right now, you actually are in a whelchair

1364
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:09,640
because broke your ankles skiing. But or as they say, snowsurfing.

1365
01:24:11,119 --> 01:24:13,079
People have forgotten. They don't know that you had a

1366
01:24:13,159 --> 01:24:16,199
debate with Matt Slick. And what was funny about it.

1367
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:18,319
Speaker 10: Was that.

1368
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,560
Speaker 4: The Protestants all were like, he's scared to go to

1369
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:26,960
the Bible, and what Father Deacon was doing was trying

1370
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:30,600
to debate him on epistemology, right.

1371
01:24:32,199 --> 01:24:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, because i mean what was going to happen is

1372
01:24:38,119 --> 01:24:41,079
all right, we'd go to the Bible and just like anything, Well,

1373
01:24:41,119 --> 01:24:45,640
that's not what the verse means. You see the versus,

1374
01:24:46,119 --> 01:24:47,680
it's the persecuted scripture.

1375
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:49,680
Speaker 13: I mean clearly means what it says, and it says

1376
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:50,399
what it means.

1377
01:24:50,239 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 3: And it means what I say and not what you say.

1378
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:55,880
Speaker 13: And then I'm like, well that that's going to get

1379
01:24:56,720 --> 01:25:00,079
into prior kind of presuppositions of like well why you

1380
01:25:00,159 --> 01:25:03,039
reading the text that way? Why are and these kind

1381
01:25:03,079 --> 01:25:05,199
of epistemic And I'm like, well, let's just save time,

1382
01:25:06,119 --> 01:25:06,960
like why are we going to go?

1383
01:25:07,079 --> 01:25:10,119
Speaker 3: And this is all Protestants do. They just quote my

1384
01:25:10,399 --> 01:25:12,039
scriptures and create.

1385
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:20,039
Speaker 13: The do the fallacy of tech, textonomy, contextronomy, taking stuff

1386
01:25:20,079 --> 01:25:20,880
out of context.

1387
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,399
Speaker 3: And I'm like, this is so stupid, Like I grew

1388
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:24,359
up as a Protestant.

1389
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:25,199
Speaker 4: I know that's what you do.

1390
01:25:25,359 --> 01:25:30,079
Speaker 3: It's just like he who matches the most Bible versus wins.

1391
01:25:30,119 --> 01:25:34,039
Speaker 13: And then we could just supply our hermaeneutical principle here,

1392
01:25:34,239 --> 01:25:38,319
and which is hilarious. If it's so clear and obvious,

1393
01:25:39,359 --> 01:25:41,840
why do you have to have hermaanutical principles to guide

1394
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:42,319
you through?

1395
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 3: Is it brought that up? And number two, if it's.

1396
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:52,680
Speaker 13: Persecuted scripture, if it's so clear, like, isn't that a

1397
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:53,640
worst argument for you?

1398
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,079
Speaker 3: Like, then why are you so retarded to get every

1399
01:25:56,439 --> 01:25:59,000
verse wrong? It's so clear?

1400
01:25:59,279 --> 01:26:01,039
Speaker 4: So I have to read to you. I have to

1401
01:26:01,119 --> 01:26:04,640
read this to you. This is from the Book of Wisdom.

1402
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:07,840
Wisdom is a gift of God. Reflecting on these things

1403
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:11,439
and considering in my heart immortality lies in kinship with Wisdom,

1404
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:15,760
great delight, in love of her, unfailing riches, in the

1405
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:17,840
work of her hands, and in associating with her, there

1406
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:20,920
is prudence, fair renown, and sharing with her discourse. I

1407
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:23,800
went about seeking her for my own. Now I was

1408
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,119
a well favored child and I became. I came by

1409
01:26:26,199 --> 01:26:30,000
a noble nature. Rather being noble, I attained an unblemished body.

1410
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:34,000
And knowing that I could not otherwise possess her unless

1411
01:26:34,119 --> 01:26:37,560
God gave it, this too was prudence, and to know

1412
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,039
the gift that she is, I went to the Lord

1413
01:26:40,119 --> 01:26:42,000
and besought him and said it with all my heart.

1414
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,199
You're supposed to interpret those texts for the deacon.

1415
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 13: Well, first we're going to have to go to uh

1416
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:53,479
astronomy and the blivements.

1417
01:26:54,159 --> 01:26:56,199
Speaker 4: No, but I'm seriously this guy sent a super chat

1418
01:26:56,239 --> 01:26:58,119
and he said, would you ask for that? I don't

1419
01:26:58,119 --> 01:27:00,000
know why he said, would you ask mister kool Aid's

1420
01:27:00,279 --> 01:27:02,319
please ask for that? You can any us to interpret

1421
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:06,039
what the personification of wisdom is in these texts? And

1422
01:27:06,119 --> 01:27:08,920
can you I got to use the restroom, so could

1423
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:11,119
you exposit these I'm.

1424
01:27:11,039 --> 01:27:12,239
Speaker 3: Looking at on the screen?

1425
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:13,239
Speaker 8: What is it?

1426
01:27:13,399 --> 01:27:13,880
Speaker 3: Wisdom?

1427
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:23,560
Speaker 4: What wisdom? Eight nineteen to twenty one?

1428
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:26,399
Speaker 3: Listen a nineteen?

1429
01:27:27,319 --> 01:27:30,079
Speaker 4: I just pop it on my personification of wisdom like

1430
01:27:30,159 --> 01:27:31,960
a woman wisdom.

1431
01:27:39,079 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 3: That's a crazy task, like on the fly.

1432
01:27:41,039 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 4: I just have to.

1433
01:27:44,279 --> 01:27:48,119
Speaker 3: Go through a text. And nevertheless, when I perceive that

1434
01:27:48,199 --> 01:27:48,840
it could.

1435
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:50,760
Speaker 9: Not pain her.

1436
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:55,279
Speaker 8: Well, I'll do it right here.

1437
01:27:56,079 --> 01:28:00,279
Speaker 13: That's talking about autonomous epistemology right there. H.

1438
01:28:01,279 --> 01:28:03,800
Speaker 3: It was at that point wisdom was also the gish

1439
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,199
she was, so God.

1440
01:28:07,119 --> 01:28:08,319
Speaker 20: Gave it her to me.

1441
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 3: I prayed unto the Lord, and he besought me.

1442
01:28:16,279 --> 01:28:17,199
Speaker 8: Let me see.

1443
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:30,680
Speaker 3: It ends at twenty How far am I supposed to

1444
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:31,039
go here?

1445
01:28:35,239 --> 01:28:47,920
Speaker 8: H I figured it out. I'm supposed to go before

1446
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:53,880
that that.

1447
01:28:54,039 --> 01:28:57,319
Speaker 4: He's about the room. So it's just the wisdom passages

1448
01:28:57,600 --> 01:28:58,520
in wisdom.

1449
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:03,039
Speaker 13: And yeah, he's obviously talking about autonomous pistemology.

1450
01:29:04,319 --> 01:29:06,520
Speaker 3: I'm not joking when I perceive that I could not

1451
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:08,800
otherwise obtain her except God gave.

1452
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:12,079
Speaker 4: Her to me. Right. So the personification of wisdom is

1453
01:29:12,359 --> 01:29:15,600
in one sense the divine energy of wisdom. It is

1454
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:19,640
also the Holy Spirit, and it is also Christ praying

1455
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:23,079
about his unblemished, immaculate body. Yeah.

1456
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what it looks like.

1457
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 4: All right, That was it.

1458
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:32,319
Speaker 8: That was the ex Jesus right there.

1459
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 13: But there is a notion of what twenty one is

1460
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:40,680
showing those alpa faticism and humility.

1461
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:43,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly that.

1462
01:29:45,279 --> 01:29:48,800
Speaker 13: You know, it's a divine energy, Like you don't create wisdom,

1463
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:52,279
you don't obtain it on and as it says in

1464
01:29:52,359 --> 01:29:57,680
Matthew and elsewhere, if you exalt yourself, God humbles you,

1465
01:29:57,680 --> 01:29:59,479
and if you humble yourself, God exalts you.

1466
01:30:01,119 --> 01:30:07,199
Speaker 3: So that seems to be true. And then yeah, it's true.

1467
01:30:07,199 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 13: It's thoroughly trinitarian as well. In that passage, I would say,

1468
01:30:11,239 --> 01:30:17,319
we've got Christ and the Incarnation and the Holy Spirit

1469
01:30:17,399 --> 01:30:20,439
as well, and the Father and the Father.

1470
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:24,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's a pretty good ext to Jesus. Thanks

1471
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:24,920
for it.

1472
01:30:25,039 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, Aristotle says, for this is the actual aristotol ten dollars.

1473
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:37,520
Do you remember that in your Derek myth vision debate

1474
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:40,319
he prophesied that he would have five hundred thousand subscribers

1475
01:30:40,359 --> 01:30:42,720
by the beginning of this year or last year, and

1476
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:48,720
the people would move towards his teachings. Yeahought, I remember that. Adrian.

1477
01:30:50,119 --> 01:30:53,760
There were interesting events happening in Romania and Poland. They

1478
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,560
have to do with the recent elections. When it concluded,

1479
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:01,560
all the extreme left rhetoric flooded online. Yeah you mean

1480
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:06,479
that or Jescu being arrested and told that he can't run.

1481
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:11,079
And yeah, in fact, I've been I emailed multiple times

1482
01:31:11,119 --> 01:31:12,560
with his people and we were going to do an

1483
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:14,319
interview and then as soon as we're gonna do the

1484
01:31:14,359 --> 01:31:19,039
interview is when he he the court banned him from

1485
01:31:19,079 --> 01:31:23,560
doing interviews. So beyond that, I've not heard what the

1486
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:26,199
update is, although I think Lord Voldemort mentioned the other

1487
01:31:26,279 --> 01:31:29,479
day an update, but I forgot what he said is

1488
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:33,640
going on. So I don't know about Poland though. But yeah,

1489
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:37,319
NATO doesn't want anyone who's not fully controlled by NATO

1490
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:44,279
to thank you to have elections. Of course, Ea five dollars.

1491
01:31:44,359 --> 01:31:47,600
You definitely bring in a whole new audience if you

1492
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:52,359
talk about seven day adventism. Nudge nudge. Uh, yeah, I'm sure,

1493
01:31:52,359 --> 01:31:55,239
I'm sure we would. Why don't some seven day avenues

1494
01:31:55,279 --> 01:31:56,880
call in a debate? I mean, maybe I should put

1495
01:31:56,920 --> 01:31:59,039
that in the title. I always forget when i'm listing

1496
01:31:59,119 --> 01:32:02,680
different cults at to put that in the title. Let's

1497
01:32:02,680 --> 01:32:06,319
see Jordan five dollars. There's a saying that if you

1498
01:32:06,399 --> 01:32:12,119
don't use it, you lose it. Keep those passes. Noah

1499
01:32:12,239 --> 01:32:15,840
m five dollars. Ask Jamie if I can use her

1500
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:20,039
tallow like a lip bomb. She said, yes, you can.

1501
01:32:21,359 --> 01:32:23,159
I work in a cement factory and it seems like

1502
01:32:23,239 --> 01:32:27,239
this stuff works great. Yes, let's talk God. No, already

1503
01:32:27,239 --> 01:32:29,720
did that. Let's see noah m five dollars. I don't

1504
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:31,920
know if you've covered it, but there's a big stink

1505
01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:37,880
being made on Twitter about this. What's the this? You

1506
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:42,239
mean Francis meeting with the EP. I mean that these

1507
01:32:42,319 --> 01:32:44,800
kinds of things have happened all the time. What about

1508
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:50,000
the situation with Metropolitan Tikikos being disciplined for requiring that

1509
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:56,960
a woman undergo corrective baptism to get married. I don't

1510
01:32:57,039 --> 01:33:02,279
know anything about it. She was already christmated top jackomatic

1511
01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:10,199
ten dollars. We did him, Jake need him three dollars.

1512
01:33:10,319 --> 01:33:14,880
The fallacies of reification and anthropomorphism can be good tools

1513
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:20,319
in addition to your tag work by critiquing God being

1514
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:27,279
too apathetic or too imminent, which, in order to avoid

1515
01:33:27,439 --> 01:33:31,319
necessitates Yes, it's an interestinction. Okay, Yeah, that's interesting. Anthony

1516
01:33:31,359 --> 01:33:33,359
one dollar? What's service between you? Oh? We already did that,

1517
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:39,159
Big Iron ten dollars. Thank you for recommending readings Space Trilogy.

1518
01:33:39,199 --> 01:33:41,880
I finished it. Do you have any similar recommendations? Should

1519
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:44,520
I read Wmberto Echoes? I wouldn't read Romberto Echo. He's

1520
01:33:45,159 --> 01:33:55,800
his stuff is atheistic, nihilistic, postmodern Satanism. I don't know

1521
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:58,239
if you mean, like in general or just in terms

1522
01:33:58,279 --> 01:34:00,640
of fiction. I mean there's a lot of good fiction.

1523
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:03,239
I mean, look at the recent fiction text we've covered.

1524
01:34:03,439 --> 01:34:07,239
You know, if you haven't read Lord of the Flies

1525
01:34:07,399 --> 01:34:11,279
is a good one, Childhood's End. You know, these are

1526
01:34:11,319 --> 01:34:15,760
all just depends on what you're interested in. John underneath

1527
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:21,119
your Space I commented an AI image illustrating a system

1528
01:34:21,279 --> 01:34:26,600
level defeating critique an AI image? Can you pull that up?

1529
01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:29,199
Not for one dollar, dude, I don't understand what you're saying,

1530
01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:41,800
arisol five dollars. We already did that. Tain't nothing ten dollars.

1531
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:46,000
I'm sorry that if you already covered this, But are

1532
01:34:46,079 --> 01:34:51,279
you debating the Mormon guy thoughtful faith? He's yes, he

1533
01:34:51,359 --> 01:34:54,279
has already called in. We already had an exchange and

1534
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,960
what he said was completely stupid. But I don't remember

1535
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:00,840
which of the there's probably ten more clips now that

1536
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:02,720
are out there. I just don't remember which one is him.

1537
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:11,720
But he's we've already had an exchange. Christopher Scott five dollars, Uh, honest,

1538
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:13,920
diecast ask father Deacon if he would rather have an

1539
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:15,840
alien to work for him or to work for him?

1540
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:24,439
Father deacon. Okay, he must have stepped away. Let's go

1541
01:35:24,479 --> 01:35:25,640
to the calls. We've got a lot of people on

1542
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:42,680
the line here, Godhead, I'm mute, god Head on you?

1543
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:47,119
Speaker 8: Oh sorry, sorry? Can you hear me?

1544
01:35:47,359 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 7: Ye?

1545
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:49,039
Speaker 20: Huh?

1546
01:35:53,039 --> 01:35:53,399
Speaker 4: Go ahead?

1547
01:35:54,039 --> 01:35:55,439
Speaker 3: So can I Can I come back to you in

1548
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:56,199
just ten seconds?

1549
01:35:57,239 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 4: Okay? Do you want to just wait ten seconds with

1550
01:36:00,079 --> 01:36:03,520
so I'll read another super chet Brian. Five dollars is

1551
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:08,600
the Catholic dilemma of them refuting the first thousand years

1552
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:13,560
equivalent to the Islamic dilemma. I think when I talked

1553
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:22,279
about Catholic dilemma it was just contradictions. I would say,

1554
01:36:22,439 --> 01:36:27,640
in terms of basic structure, a contradiction in Islam would

1555
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:31,319
be similar to the contradiction in papism. Sure, gainer Zilla,

1556
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:37,119
now we already did that. Bastion ten dollars or Oca

1557
01:36:37,199 --> 01:36:39,479
parish is just as good as ro Corps parishes. It

1558
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:42,279
just as paris about parish, man, I would I would say,

1559
01:36:43,079 --> 01:36:50,880
check them all out. Lean five dollars. Does the Eucharist save?

1560
01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:56,800
I mean, it's part of salvation. There's no singular thing like,

1561
01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:59,199
oh it's just baptism. Oh, it's just the Eucharist. So

1562
01:36:59,239 --> 01:37:01,920
it's just the like all of these things are part

1563
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:04,800
of salvation, because we're not Protestants who have like a

1564
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:09,479
reductionist idea of salvation as just like a one time

1565
01:37:10,239 --> 01:37:14,399
event where you, you know, said the sinner's prayer. Jesus

1566
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:16,520
says you got to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Correct,

1567
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:21,600
what if you don't know about this? Again? Too much

1568
01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:25,520
is given, much is required Aristotle? No where did that

1569
01:37:30,159 --> 01:37:33,359
gainers ten dollars? I think a fully consistent Protestant would

1570
01:37:33,359 --> 01:37:37,039
have to concede that the immediate successors such as Clement

1571
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:43,439
Ignacious Aeronaeus subverted the church if they Yeah, I mean

1572
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:53,720
Protestants are never fully consistent. How about that? But the

1573
01:37:53,800 --> 01:37:59,600
Anabaptists will argue that Clement Ignacious and Aeronaus subverted the

1574
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:04,840
church Lean three dollars. How would you debunk Sevendy Adventism

1575
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:09,239
by going to the standard reputations of all the other

1576
01:38:09,359 --> 01:38:13,680
sects and cults, like there's no new revelations. Ellen White

1577
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:18,119
taught that she was a charismatic prophet and she got

1578
01:38:18,199 --> 01:38:21,319
new charismatic revelations. Well, if there's no new revelations, that

1579
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:26,439
immediately cuts out all sects and cults that teach new revelation,

1580
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,640
whether it's Mormon, Muslim, or Seven of Day Adventists. So

1581
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:34,680
again we've already done link these streams on the canon

1582
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:39,399
of You understand, guys, it only takes like one argument

1583
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:42,479
can cut out all the cults and sects. You don't

1584
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:46,560
have to refute every single cult and sect individually, because

1585
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:50,439
if the canon of Scripture is determined by the Church,

1586
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:56,000
that undercuts every Protestant sect or cult, you don't have

1587
01:38:56,119 --> 01:38:58,560
to do all ten thousand of them one by one.

1588
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:02,239
That one cuts them all out because they're all derivatives

1589
01:39:02,279 --> 01:39:05,119
of the Reformation. If the Reformation is false, those are

1590
01:39:05,239 --> 01:39:08,600
also false. I'm not trying to be rude to you, guys.

1591
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:11,439
It's just like it should be obvious that if the

1592
01:39:11,560 --> 01:39:14,560
Reformation is wrong, all the sects that come out of

1593
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:17,880
the Reformation are by default also wrong, if it's a

1594
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:21,640
question of fundamental issues like the Canada Scripture and so forth.

1595
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:27,800
So we just had a live stream on charismatic cults

1596
01:39:32,119 --> 01:39:39,680
right here, heated debates, charismatic Pentecostal stuff right here, six

1597
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:44,960
hours right there, that will also, by necessity, by default,

1598
01:39:45,119 --> 01:39:49,760
also undercut Seven day Adventism. So would any debate about

1599
01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:51,840
the canon. So that's why you don't have to do

1600
01:39:52,039 --> 01:39:53,760
every single cult one by one.

1601
01:39:54,520 --> 01:40:00,119
Speaker 3: They're not gonna just ask about seventy advenus. Yeah, can

1602
01:40:00,159 --> 01:40:01,319
we get the same people in?

1603
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:04,880
Speaker 13: Like my stream is your stream? That they've asked the

1604
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:08,199
same thing too. And I was like, it's kind of

1605
01:40:08,199 --> 01:40:12,720
a weird question because I mean, the critiques that we

1606
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:18,560
would have of any heterodox theoretical applies to Seventh Day Adventism.

1607
01:40:19,359 --> 01:40:22,279
Speaker 3: And I think the question I mentioned to this individual,

1608
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:24,199
the question.

1609
01:40:24,399 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 13: Displays kind of a Protestant acumenism assumption in it, like, well,

1610
01:40:34,439 --> 01:40:35,720
what's the good stuff?

1611
01:40:37,399 --> 01:40:38,039
Speaker 3: How do I put this?

1612
01:40:38,199 --> 01:40:41,840
Speaker 13: It's something that a Protestant would ask, So, what's wrong

1613
01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:43,680
with Seventh Day Adventism?

1614
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:47,279
Speaker 4: Right? They don't understand the system level defeaters again.

1615
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:52,600
Speaker 3: But it's like, it's not like.

1616
01:40:55,359 --> 01:40:56,079
Speaker 1: How do I put this?

1617
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:01,279
Speaker 13: It's not like there's something unique that like, I mean,

1618
01:41:01,319 --> 01:41:03,479
I guess you could dig in and try to find

1619
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:06,039
some weird thing about.

1620
01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:11,239
Speaker 4: Uh, well, look, if there's no new profits, then any

1621
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:16,880
system built on a new profit is canceled out right.

1622
01:41:18,159 --> 01:41:21,000
Speaker 13: Yeah, it doesn't seem to yet. Well, I would say veganism,

1623
01:41:21,359 --> 01:41:21,760
there's a.

1624
01:41:23,239 --> 01:41:24,239
Speaker 4: Well they're vegetarian.

1625
01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:27,039
Speaker 3: But yeah, right, that's vegetarian.

1626
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:29,600
Speaker 4: But an easier like because they're just going to try

1627
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:32,960
to argue stupid stuff about that, Like why not just

1628
01:41:33,039 --> 01:41:35,880
say that, first of all, seventy avodes and believes that

1629
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:38,960
the Church apostatized in the first second, third century, so

1630
01:41:39,119 --> 01:41:42,800
that would violate Matthew sixteen and the promise at the

1631
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:45,840
Gates of Elle will not reveal against the Church everybody.

1632
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:48,199
Pre Icia teaches the same thing as post and Icea.

1633
01:41:48,319 --> 01:41:52,159
You can go watch my live stream with Inspiring Philosophy

1634
01:41:52,239 --> 01:41:54,680
on that where we talk about the pre Nicne teaching

1635
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:57,600
and the post nice teaching on the Trinity and episcopacy,

1636
01:41:58,239 --> 01:41:59,399
all that kind of stuff is there.

1637
01:42:00,520 --> 01:42:03,359
Speaker 15: I mean, it's just a weird question to me, Like

1638
01:42:03,479 --> 01:42:09,119
it's the question, what is it uniquely that seventh Day

1639
01:42:09,159 --> 01:42:11,640
I don't that just have a problem that doesn't.

1640
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:12,520
Speaker 3: That all Protestants?

1641
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:14,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, he says, my mother is stuck in the church

1642
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:19,840
and she says that there's a secret truth that this

1643
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:23,680
church has and everyone that goes against it is satanic. Well,

1644
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:25,920
I don't think I'm going to be able to logically

1645
01:42:26,039 --> 01:42:27,000
argue with your mom on that.

1646
01:42:27,079 --> 01:42:29,600
Speaker 3: Man, You're not going to be able to you have

1647
01:42:29,720 --> 01:42:30,439
to blackmail her.

1648
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:33,479
Speaker 4: John says that's a joke. John says, were one dollar?

1649
01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:36,159
You missed my last stream.

1650
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:42,000
Speaker 3: Lab Okay, I think you guys can have me.

1651
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:47,720
Speaker 4: Go ahead. What's up, Godhead?

1652
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:50,039
Speaker 8: Yeah, how's it going?

1653
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:52,359
Speaker 3: How's it going?

1654
01:42:52,479 --> 01:42:53,640
Speaker 18: Jay uh and.

1655
01:42:55,439 --> 01:42:55,680
Speaker 8: And co?

1656
01:42:56,520 --> 01:42:56,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1657
01:42:56,760 --> 01:43:00,159
Speaker 10: So yeah, I just want to say, hey, you'll or

1658
01:43:00,199 --> 01:43:03,039
your take on trinitarian morganism.

1659
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:08,079
Speaker 3: It's such a tongue twister.

1660
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:14,239
Speaker 4: Monarchical trinitarianism basically, yeah, is that what you subscribe to?

1661
01:43:14,279 --> 01:43:18,399
Speaker 10: You just out of interest? Yes, I'm a believer as well.

1662
01:43:19,119 --> 01:43:22,119
I am Protestant though, and I think your Orthodox, aren't you?

1663
01:43:22,479 --> 01:43:28,800
Speaker 4: Yes? Okay, well so yeah. One thing I would say

1664
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:32,560
is like, if you look at the original Nights in Creed,

1665
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:37,800
it's right there. Athanatians teaches that the Father generates of

1666
01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:43,520
his nature an identical son, identical by nature, and he

1667
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:48,199
uses the Greek term for generation there versus creation. So

1668
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:52,119
that is monarchical trinitarianism. Where you have the Creed, for example,

1669
01:43:52,640 --> 01:43:54,840
the Niceno consert polity Creed says that we believe in

1670
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:57,680
one God, the Father. We believe in the Father of lights, right,

1671
01:43:57,800 --> 01:44:00,239
So typically the one God is referred to by the

1672
01:44:00,319 --> 01:44:03,920
Cappadocians and by the creed as the person of the Father.

1673
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:09,920
And that's monarchical trinitarianism in its most simple. There's a

1674
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,079
sole source that is the Father. The Father is the

1675
01:44:12,119 --> 01:44:13,600
source of the Spirit and the Son.

1676
01:44:15,439 --> 01:44:17,600
Speaker 10: Yeah, you see that bit what you just said about.

1677
01:44:19,079 --> 01:44:21,760
I know you're mentioning about the Father being the sole source.

1678
01:44:23,159 --> 01:44:24,760
So I think the question for me is if the

1679
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:30,000
Father is unorginated, you know, how can the son and

1680
01:44:30,119 --> 01:44:35,560
spirit be coequal and colternal? Because yeah, I sort of

1681
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:40,840
feel like with this this idea of should we say

1682
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:46,000
trinitarism monarchia, the Father is somewhat seen as.

1683
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:48,279
Speaker 3: He's seen.

1684
01:44:48,319 --> 01:44:50,840
Speaker 10: It's quite for me a little bit too distinct.

1685
01:44:53,279 --> 01:44:55,760
Speaker 4: That means two distinct. I mean we just follow the

1686
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:59,680
teaching content, one which is Cappadocian, which is that the

1687
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:03,239
Father is the sole cause. That's what is his hyposthetic property.

1688
01:45:03,279 --> 01:45:07,439
He's picked out as fount, ark, source, and arka, et cetera.

1689
01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:10,479
Those are all terms that are his hypostatic property to

1690
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:13,039
pick him out as the source. Hence why Jesus in

1691
01:45:13,079 --> 01:45:16,600
the Gospel says that his God is the Father. So

1692
01:45:16,720 --> 01:45:19,399
even Jesus has a God which is the person of

1693
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:19,760
the Father.

1694
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:24,880
Speaker 10: But the Father also in Hebrews one calls Jesus.

1695
01:45:24,680 --> 01:45:25,159
Speaker 3: God as well.

1696
01:45:25,239 --> 01:45:27,560
Speaker 4: Is that right? That's because God is not a term

1697
01:45:27,640 --> 01:45:30,000
that has a single reference. It can pick out a person,

1698
01:45:30,319 --> 01:45:32,399
you can pick out the divine nature, you can pick

1699
01:45:32,439 --> 01:45:35,479
out divine energies, and it can also pick out humans, angels,

1700
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:36,000
and demons.

1701
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:43,840
Speaker 10: Okay, So you obviously subscribe to Father's Son, holy Spirit

1702
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:44,399
being as.

1703
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:47,159
Speaker 4: You know, equal equal in nature, not in role.

1704
01:45:49,039 --> 01:45:54,720
Speaker 10: Okay, So do you believe you know, I'm sure you

1705
01:45:54,760 --> 01:45:58,239
obviously believe that the Father's unoiginated the Son and the

1706
01:45:58,279 --> 01:45:59,039
Holy Spirit.

1707
01:46:00,159 --> 01:46:00,319
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1708
01:46:00,399 --> 01:46:00,520
Speaker 8: Right.

1709
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:03,479
Speaker 4: Oration twenty three of Gregory nosanzeis where he talks about this,

1710
01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:05,720
and he says that the Father is on originate, the

1711
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:06,800
Son is original.

1712
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:13,600
Speaker 10: What about in Michael five, verse two, which implies that

1713
01:46:15,359 --> 01:46:19,520
you know, the quest is, you know, eternally existing John

1714
01:46:19,600 --> 01:46:20,520
one Verse one's two.

1715
01:46:20,640 --> 01:46:24,319
Speaker 4: Yea, none of we believe in eternally begotten son. There's

1716
01:46:24,359 --> 01:46:27,439
no beginning in time to his existence. So there's nothing

1717
01:46:27,439 --> 01:46:30,680
about monarchical trinitarianism that thinks that the Son wasn't eternal.

1718
01:46:31,319 --> 01:46:33,800
He's eternally begotten, as John one says, he was always

1719
01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:40,439
in the bosom of the Father even when he was incarnate, you.

1720
01:46:40,479 --> 01:46:41,680
Speaker 8: Know, you know, do you know one thing?

1721
01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:44,840
Speaker 10: I think one interesting thing is that it can somewhat

1722
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:49,760
appear in a way that it's I'm not saying I

1723
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:52,479
necessarily believe this, but it would be interesting to hear

1724
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:56,039
your thoughts on is this somewhat because there's some arguments

1725
01:46:56,119 --> 01:46:59,880
that this is somewhat modalism and in disguise because modalism.

1726
01:47:00,239 --> 01:47:02,640
Speaker 4: How would it be modalism when it's almost always critiqued

1727
01:47:02,760 --> 01:47:08,520
as subordinationism and arianism. So maybe you're confusing. I think

1728
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:14,159
you're confusing modalistic monarchianism with monarchical trinitarianism. Those are totally

1729
01:47:14,159 --> 01:47:14,680
different things.

1730
01:47:15,760 --> 01:47:18,039
Speaker 10: No, no, No, it's more like it's more about somewhat

1731
01:47:18,039 --> 01:47:20,560
the risks, like basically dis over emphasis on the Father.

1732
01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:23,319
Speaker 3: I know, I know that this is not different modes.

1733
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:25,960
Speaker 4: In the Orthodox there is no emphasis on the Father.

1734
01:47:26,079 --> 01:47:28,640
It's just not true. The entire liturgy, the entire service,

1735
01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:32,319
the entire ethos is fully trinitarian. There's no emphasis on

1736
01:47:32,359 --> 01:47:37,800
one versity the other. O case, Okay, I would just

1737
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:39,720
say go at ten Orthodox Church and you could see

1738
01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:42,119
if that's the case. But if you're looking for a

1739
01:47:42,279 --> 01:47:45,600
fuller treatment of this. Doctor bo Branson has an entire

1740
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:49,720
lecture series that's on the channel GM. Just type in

1741
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:52,439
Monarchy the Father Bo Branson, you'll get a five part

1742
01:47:52,520 --> 01:47:55,359
lecture series which goes through most of these types of objections.

1743
01:47:55,399 --> 01:47:57,000
But go ahead, go ahead and make your point.

1744
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 10: So you know the bit about it, you know, come

1745
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:03,039
on so late in the day.

1746
01:48:03,119 --> 01:48:04,279
Speaker 3: So for us, I'm in the UK.

1747
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:10,000
Speaker 10: So if you look at for example, John one, verse

1748
01:48:10,079 --> 01:48:14,520
one to two and he Brews nine, verse eighteen, Kelly,

1749
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:17,560
the Son and the Spirit are co eternal.

1750
01:48:18,359 --> 01:48:21,880
Speaker 4: There's nothing about monarchical trinitarianism that denies the eternality of

1751
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:25,279
the Sun. He's eternally begotten, as nicea One says. So

1752
01:48:25,439 --> 01:48:29,479
Athanatians talks about the son being eternally begotten and receiving

1753
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:32,439
his existence and his essence and his hypostasis. Everything that

1754
01:48:32,479 --> 01:48:34,600
he has he receives of the Father. Right, as Jesus

1755
01:48:34,680 --> 01:48:37,000
himself says in the Gospel of John. None of that

1756
01:48:37,239 --> 01:48:41,199
entails that there's any form of ontological subordination, or that

1757
01:48:41,279 --> 01:48:47,039
there's any sort of diminnition, right, or that he's not eternal, right.

1758
01:48:47,039 --> 01:48:48,880
I mean, have you not heard me argue with Muslims

1759
01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:50,439
for years. I mean, I'm not trying to be rude

1760
01:48:50,439 --> 01:48:53,520
to you, but like I literally go through all those

1761
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:55,960
texts when I'm arguing with Muslims to show that the

1762
01:48:56,000 --> 01:48:58,560
Old Testament teaches that the Son is eternal, the Son

1763
01:48:58,640 --> 01:49:00,880
is the eternal God. It's just that the word God

1764
01:49:00,920 --> 01:49:02,039
doesn't have a single reference.

1765
01:49:04,319 --> 01:49:04,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1766
01:49:04,600 --> 01:49:09,199
Speaker 10: No, I've heard you debate wanted two individuals, you know,

1767
01:49:09,359 --> 01:49:13,920
Muslims and so forth. Sure, I think the other thing is,

1768
01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:19,119
I mean, what's your case for implying origin this begotten

1769
01:49:19,199 --> 01:49:22,159
and proceeding because I know obviously you don't subscribe to

1770
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:24,159
feel okay.

1771
01:49:24,479 --> 01:49:27,880
Speaker 4: Basically, well, again, if you read the Cappadocians, everything that

1772
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:30,560
we say is literally what Basil teaches us, what Gregor

1773
01:49:30,640 --> 01:49:33,640
Nazianzows teaches, and as orations, it's what Gregor Nissa teaches

1774
01:49:34,039 --> 01:49:36,680
and against Eunomias, like, all of what we're saying is

1775
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:40,880
just literally repeated verbatim from them, and they had as

1776
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:45,680
their chief opponent Eunomius. Right, Eunomius is modalistic, you know,

1777
01:49:46,159 --> 01:49:52,119
Unitarianism is precisely what they're geared towards opposing. So I

1778
01:49:52,239 --> 01:49:55,239
don't see at all but I think that they're perfectly

1779
01:49:55,279 --> 01:49:58,039
consistent with what Affanatius taught because consound number one is

1780
01:49:58,079 --> 01:50:02,479
building on the eternal beginning of the son that's pronounced

1781
01:50:02,520 --> 01:50:05,880
in the original original Nicene Creed that the cavedotions then

1782
01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:10,079
build on. So again, I just don't understand at all

1783
01:50:10,680 --> 01:50:14,119
where there's any emphasis over instants on the father or

1784
01:50:14,279 --> 01:50:17,920
subordination to say that there's a role. It's just like

1785
01:50:18,399 --> 01:50:20,279
a king and a son. Right, if you think about

1786
01:50:20,319 --> 01:50:22,640
a king and the king has a son who's a prince,

1787
01:50:23,159 --> 01:50:25,920
they have different roles, but the nature that they possess

1788
01:50:26,039 --> 01:50:28,680
is equal. Right. The prince has all the same authority

1789
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:31,479
and power as the king. He has the same nature

1790
01:50:31,479 --> 01:50:33,039
as his father, the king, but they don't have the

1791
01:50:33,119 --> 01:50:35,520
same role. And that's why Jesus is always talking about

1792
01:50:35,640 --> 01:50:38,760
the Father as the one that's quote greater, not in

1793
01:50:38,960 --> 01:50:41,760
essence but in role, and as the one whom he

1794
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:45,720
submits to, whom he obeys, whom he derives everything from.

1795
01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:50,640
So it's actually the Mormon or seeing the Muslim position,

1796
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:55,560
which thinks that if the son derives his existence and

1797
01:50:55,680 --> 01:50:58,880
if he's not un originate, that he's somehow lesser. But

1798
01:50:58,920 --> 01:51:02,039
if you watch the debate between Jake and doctor Branson.

1799
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:05,680
Doctor Branson demonstrates that it's just a logical fallacy to

1800
01:51:05,760 --> 01:51:06,079
say that