WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.759 Hey everybody, Jim Cummings here. Welcome to my podcast, tuned 2 00:00:03.799 --> 00:00:07.200 In with Jim Cummings. We have a great guest for 3 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:10.080 you today, but before we get to that, make sure 4 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:14.880 you like and subscribe. Our podcast has partnered with the 5 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:19.960 largest comic con in North America, fan Expo, the Juggernaut. 6 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:24.239 We're touring all over North America live, so get your 7 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:27.239 tickets and come be a part of the live audience. 8 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:31.480 It'll be fun. Go to FANEXPOHQ dot com for the tickets. 9 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:34.840 We'll see you in a city near you or a 10 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:37.359 little bit away, but you can drive. And with all 11 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:41.000 that said and done, sit back and enjoy today's episode 12 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:44.520 and as always, thanks for tuning in to Tuned In 13 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:47.920 with Jim Cummings. If you're a fan of everything we 14 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.799 do here at tuned In with Jim Cummings, you could 15 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:55.320 support the show on Patreon for bonus exclusive podcasts, as 16 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.079 well as early in ad free access to the show itself, 17 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:03.079 prize draw and more. You'll feel the difference, so go 18 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:06.599 ahead and join the tuned In family today at Patreon 19 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:12.840 dot com slash Jim Cummings Podcast. Do it now? How 20 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:16.200 you doing out there? It's me Tiggert. I am Duc 21 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:19.000 Wayne Duck. It's me Bunkers keep bobcat. 22 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:20.000 All right, y'all? 23 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:20.560 Did it great? 24 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:23.439 Your favorite firefly you desire? 25 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:26.480 Hold no old knock guy. My name is Jim Cummings 26 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:27.920 and welcome to tuned In. 27 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:32.200 Welcome back, everybody to another episode of Tuned In with 28 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:35.760 Jim Cummings. I'm producer Chris, joined as always by Lenend himself. 29 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:37.959 Mister Jim Cummings. How are you doing today, sir? 30 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.319 Yet another day in paradise? 31 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:41.000 Sure is? 32 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:43.719 Oh Mary gosh. We have an angel of a guest. 33 00:01:43.719 --> 00:01:44.519 See what I did there? 34 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:46.359 Thank you. 35 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:48.439 Yes, we have a very special guest to you for 36 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:50.560 you today. But before I get to that, let me 37 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:52.079 just make some announcements. 38 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:52.719 True. 39 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.200 As of course, you know we're doing the podcast live 40 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:56.920 with Fan Expo this year. 41 00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:57.640 Yes we are. 42 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.359 Yeah, it's been good so far. Has very live actually 43 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:02.040 yeah yeah. 44 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.920 Everyone that's been there has been live. We were live. 45 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:08.599 This is working on and we got some upcoming dates 46 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:10.280 for you guys, if you guys want to come see 47 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:13.039 the show live with Fan Expo. The next one we're 48 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:16.400 going to is Anaheim. I'm not sure if we're going 49 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:18.800 to Anaheim. 50 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:20.840 Rings a Bell. I've heard of it. 51 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.800 Anaheim. There's Disney, so potentially Anaheim. There's still some negotiations 52 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:26.639 going on. But if you see this in time, then 53 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.360 Anaheim it is stayed. Next one following that is Chicago 54 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:34.400 August fourteenth to the sixteenth, Toronto after that August twenty 55 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.800 seventh to the thirtieth, and Dallas September eleventh to thirteenth. 56 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:41.319 Finally San Francisco November twenty seventh to the twenty ninth. 57 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:46.919 And I like the atmosphere of the Live Fan Expo podcast. 58 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:49.960 It's like it's kind of more like a panel. It's 59 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:51.639 a little more like a panel, and we do that 60 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:54.560 on purpose, you know, to be appealing to the live audience. 61 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:56.439 You know, we can't edit any Yeah, well, the energy 62 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:58.960 is there, the energy is there, the feedback. 63 00:02:59.080 --> 00:02:59.280 You know. 64 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:03.000 We've had some hack shows, I mean, I know, holy yow. 65 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:06.000 I mean with Erica, Durance and Calgary that was like 66 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:07.400 a couple thousand people in there. 67 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:11.240 Yeah, yeah, come on down yeah Gray Room. Yeah. 68 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:13.360 So if you're in the area for any of those dates, 69 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:15.840 be sure to come check it out. And with all 70 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.080 that said and done, our special guest today here is 71 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:21.400 Angelie Binmani thank you so much for being here. 72 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:26.159 Yes, I did, thank you. 73 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:28.120 Thank you, yes, yes, thanks for having me. 74 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:31.800 All right, very cool, very cool. You You have been busy. 75 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:34.599 I always do my homework. Look see on this high 76 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:37.319 tech that I have. 77 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:40.240 Creative people I know right anywhere they can. 78 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:43.319 Oh okay, well that's what I meant to say exactly. 79 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:46.280 I was just being creative and writing anywhere that I could. 80 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:49.800 But h yeah, I mean you are are kind of busy. 81 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:52.680 You have been busy for a while. 82 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:54.199 I don't sit still very well. 83 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:54.879 Yeah. 84 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.759 Yeah, I'm not great at it. I tend to panic 85 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:02.560 when I'm trying to sit still. I was thinking about Yeah, 86 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:04.560 I was thinking about this the other day. I actually 87 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:07.879 wrote this down, and then I was like, whoa I wrote? 88 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:09.000 I wrote. 89 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:11.599 The panic that I feel when there's too much to 90 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:14.479 do is nothing compared to the panic I feel when 91 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:17.000 I'm not doing anything and think I'm supposed to be 92 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:20.199 doing something. Wow, yeah, where I'm like, I know, I know, 93 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:22.120 I know there's something I'm not getting done that I 94 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:23.639 was supposed to do and I don't know what it is. 95 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:26.319 Yeah, you've got that gap in your head and you're going, 96 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:28.600 oh God, what did I forget? I just forgot to 97 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.560 remember it, that's all. Yeah, I've got that one. 98 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:34.920 But yeah, I look, we're very lucky because we live 99 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:36.839 in a world where there are so many different ways 100 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:39.079 to tell stories and there's so many different media that 101 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.600 we can work in and uh, and so I just 102 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:43.439 like to do it as often as I can with 103 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:44.199 cool people. 104 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:44.959 Yeah. 105 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.079 Wow, well, but you're here anyway. 106 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:52.199 I'm appreciate it, right that a deprecating humor won't fly 107 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:55.480 with me. Yeah, that's the one making the self deprecating. 108 00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:58.759 That's right. Yeah, that's it works right, Otherwise it's an insult, 109 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.360 like if you throw it, it's it's not as much 110 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:06.800 fun for me. Not that I'm insecure. Oh but thanks 111 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:09.160 for being here. This is so great, This is so cool. 112 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:12.879 You've been very busy. I've been doing homework on you. 113 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:17.040 And yeah, you are in probably one of the biggest 114 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:22.120 video games ever. I mean, come on, I mean, I mean, 115 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:27.759 what do we have here? The world famous overall Overwatch. 116 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:28.920 That's got to be. 117 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:33.519 Yeah, I mean it's it's it continues to be mind 118 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:38.319 blowing to me how not just well received but embraced 119 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:41.680 and run with that game has been And I do 120 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:43.959 I do think there are a lot of great reasons 121 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:49.040 for that, But you know, Blizzard tends to do big 122 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:53.279 awesome things and big awesome games, So obviously, when when 123 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:56.800 when I first recorded with them, I knew that this 124 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.879 was going to be a big game. But what I 125 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:03.160 don't think any of us prepared for how much the 126 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:06.600 community grabbed onto it and then ran with it and 127 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:11.079 turned it into something even bigger and more beautiful than 128 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:13.720 I think that that anyone had imagined it would be, 129 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:17.959 both for those of us creating it and for the 130 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:19.399 community itself. 131 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:22.279 Can you tell that when you when you first get 132 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:24.399 a script, when when you first get when you first 133 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:26.600 look at it, when you first look at the layout, 134 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.639 the characters that this that can you go, oh, this 135 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:30.680 is gonna be a good one. 136 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:36.319 Honestly, this one that was not? So no short answer, no, okay, 137 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:39.040 The short answer is no. I don't trust my opinion 138 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:43.199 of most things, of most things that involve my performance. 139 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:52.439 So I think I have finally given over, after being 140 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.720 in this business for three decades, I have finally given 141 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.000 over to the fact that what it feels like on 142 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:02.399 the inside is not what it sounds like or looks 143 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:04.399 like on the outside. And then I have to be 144 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:07.439 okay with that that you know, you learn the lesson, 145 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:10.680 hopefully early, but you learn the lesson If you had 146 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:12.800 a bad performance and someone comes up to you and 147 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:15.079 compliments you, you don't tell them, oh God, that was 148 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.120 the worst show ever. You allow them to have that experience, right, 149 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:22.079 you know that much. But over time I have also 150 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:26.839 learned whatever my perception of it is, chances are it 151 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:29.639 is completely different than what it was for people on 152 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:30.240 the outside. 153 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:32.800 That's right, because it takes getting used to. 154 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:35.399 Yeah, it really does. And it takes a level of 155 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:39.120 letting go of control that I'm not. It's not easy 156 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:43.040 for me, but it is very freeing when I can, 157 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:46.759 because it means I'm working with people that I really trust. 158 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.920 If I really trust the director, if I really trust 159 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:53.639 the editor, if I really trust the people around me, 160 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:56.519 then I can just do what I do and not 161 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:58.560 be thinking about is it good or is it bad. 162 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:00.839 I trust that they're doing it. I trust that they're 163 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:06.120 handling it and they see the vision better than I do. Yeah, yeah, 164 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:09.439 so ahead. My audition for Overwatch was a perfect example 165 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.399 because I was I was my husband's a touring musician, 166 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:16.000 and we were at the end of their tour in 167 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:18.920 Europe and the UK. So we were about to leave 168 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:23.319 for sound check for the final show, and I knew 169 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:25.560 the plan for the evening was just based on like 170 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:27.600 where we were and what travel was going to look 171 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.079 like that I was going to have to stay up 172 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:33.799 all night to get back to the hotel at seven 173 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:35.639 in the morning, grab my bags and then hop on 174 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:36.440 a plane. 175 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:37.360 Shack all night. 176 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:39.320 Yeah, So like that was just going to be it. 177 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:40.759 That was just going to be how it was. So 178 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.879 that the audition came in right as we were leaving for 179 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:47.679 sound check, and I realized exactly, I realized what the 180 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.519 sound with the time difference, The only way I'd be 181 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:53.200 able to get this in by the deadline, given the 182 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:56.159 fact I was going somewhere very loud, the only way 183 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.039 I'd be able to do it would be to record it. 184 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:00.519 When I came back to the hotel room seven o'clock 185 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.440 in the morning, bleary eyed with no sleep. So I 186 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:08.080 came back, turned on my phone, asked my now husband, Hey, 187 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:09.879 just be quiet for ast couple of seconds. I'm going 188 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.279 to do this. Two takes sent it off, and then 189 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:15.120 it was like cool, I did my job. I'm There's 190 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:16.399 no way I'm going to book this, but I'm just 191 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:17.679 going to get out of there, like I don't. I 192 00:09:17.720 --> 00:09:20.360 have no idea how that sounded, and not how that sounded. 193 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:23.159 I obviously made sure that it was you know, it's assisted, 194 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:27.320 but and that ended up being the audition that got 195 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:30.080 me the job. And I look back on that and 196 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:35.480 it's such a reminder not to discount yourself before someone 197 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.559 else does, because I think a lot of us performers 198 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.840 and artists do what we decide before someone says no, 199 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.879 why it's going to be a no, rather than saying like, no, look, 200 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.639 if I've got the audition and I whatever, I'm going 201 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:52.639 to make it happen. I'm not going to give them 202 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:55.679 a reason that I don't get the job. They can decide, YEA, 203 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:59.200 let them come on their own. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure 204 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:01.279 there will be plenty of people in the world who 205 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.919 are going to say no to me for a million 206 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:05.799 different things. I'm not going to be the first person 207 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:08.679 to do it right, which I do think is part 208 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:10.720 of why, going back to what you said, part of 209 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:14.320 why I've stayed busy is because I just like saying 210 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:18.480 yes to opportunities to try new things. Even if there 211 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:21.200 are things I'm terrified of almost especially if they're things 212 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:24.480 that I'm terrified of. I kind of love that. I 213 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:27.639 kind of love trying things for the first time in 214 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:28.600 front of an audience. 215 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:32.679 Is that is that? Would you say that when it 216 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:37.960 comes to film animation? You know, singing? I mean, you know, 217 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:41.120 what is your what is what drew you first into 218 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:42.320 the into the circus? 219 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:45.799 You're sure? I was definitely so. So theater was my 220 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.840 first language, which I feel like is the case for 221 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:51.279 a lot of people because in school, in grade school, 222 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:53.799 even you got the school play, right, very few people 223 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:56.480 have the school film or the school or the school 224 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:59.320 animated series. Right, very few people have that. We all have. 225 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:01.360 We all have the school play, we all have the 226 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:02.440 you know, the Puppets show. 227 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:03.480 A very rich school. 228 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:06.320 Yeah. If you've got that, man, more power to you, 229 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:07.200 like go get it. 230 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:11.399 We had school news that counts the school news. It 231 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.360 was like filmed. It was like they broadcast like school 232 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:15.879 news every day. 233 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:19.679 We just have the announcements over the last Yeah that's 234 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:23.960 right over the PA system. But yeah, so theater was 235 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:27.200 my first love, and I I you know, I did 236 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:29.879 the school plays and then I did community theater, and 237 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:34.159 I didn't really understand, which this is going to sound 238 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:36.799 so dumb in hindsight, but I didn't really understand that 239 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:38.879 this was a thing that people actually did for a living, 240 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:43.240 that this was a viable job path. And I shouldn't 241 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:45.480 say it was dumb. It was just I hadn't I 242 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:47.879 hadn't put two and two together. They're like, oh, those 243 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:50.080 people who were doing it on Broadway, and oh those 244 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.399 people who were doing this at whatever theater I have 245 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.639 gone to see a play. They are also doing this 246 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:00.519 as a profession, some of them. So once I really that, 247 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:03.120 I told my parents, who at first were in a 248 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.799 little bit of denial, and then they were like, oh, cool, cool, cool. 249 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:07.600 You know what, if you want to do this three rules. 250 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.679 One treat it like a real job. Two, get really 251 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:14.559 good at it, and three pay your own bills. We're 252 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:16.960 behind you. One. Just do those three things. 253 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:20.279 That's not bad. No, that's pretty good advice. 254 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:25.159 Pretty incredible advice. And I think it it's great advice 255 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.960 to get as a young person going into an artistic field, 256 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.120 because I think a lot of us get kind of 257 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.279 caught up in the I'm anto, yeah, I have to 258 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.480 feel the things. You're like. You also have to pay 259 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:41.159 the bills, like you have the roof over your head, right, 260 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:43.360 So you learn how to do that, figure out how 261 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.559 to do that at the same time as you're as 262 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.519 you're as you're pursuing whatever exciting field you want to be, 263 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.759 whether that's brain surgery or acting or being a lawyer 264 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:53.519 or whatever it is. 265 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:55.320 Yeah, I had that too. I said, well, you know, 266 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:57.200 I want to do this and I wanted to. Yeah, 267 00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:58.559 but how are you going to pay the bills? No, 268 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.799 I'll do that well enough that it pays the bill, Okay, 269 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.039 but in case you don't, cause he's not going to 270 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:05.840 what what are you going to? You know? 271 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.399 There was that, Yeah, I definitely like there was a 272 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:11.679 there was a moment a short period of time where 273 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:13.120 my mom was like, you know what, why don't you 274 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:17.519 get a degree in something else? Just in the state, right? 275 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.559 And I kind of felt like, Well, if I'm going 276 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:24.000 to do this and I have to be really good 277 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:25.480 at it, and I have to treat it like a 278 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.960 real job, I need to go study it like I 279 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:31.600 would if it was the real job you're asking me 280 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:33.440 to get a degree in. I don't want to get 281 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:35.879 really good at the thing that's my backup. I kind 282 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:38.120 of don't even want to have a backup. I just 283 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:39.879 want to be able to pursue this and if I 284 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:44.240 fail at it, then cool, I will pivot. And yeah, 285 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:46.000 so and and I did you know, of course, like 286 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:49.679 I had a day job for the I'm very lucky 287 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:52.720 for a very short period of time in my early 288 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:56.879 theater days. But but it was not something that felt 289 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:00.519 like it was because I couldn't be an actor, right, 290 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:02.200 And that mindset difference. 291 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:04.279 Yeah, that's a big one, that's right. 292 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.600 It's not I'm doing this. It's not I'm doing this 293 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.919 until I'm an actor. It's I'm doing this while I'm acting. 294 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:13.320 This is this is this is the thing I do 295 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.120 during the day, and that is the thing I do. Yeah, 296 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:19.519 so to spun money. Yeah, and sometimes look, sometimes what's 297 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.480 fun is keeping the roof over your head. That's fun. 298 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:23.519 Yeah, that's definitely. 299 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:25.679 That's definitely a little more fun than not having. 300 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:28.480 Yeah, yeah, under a bridge, living under bridge. It's not 301 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:28.799 the same. 302 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.720 It's just not this just the same. I do it 303 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:34.679 for research for right, right, not necessarily by choice. 304 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:36.960 That sounds like a lot what you say all the time, Jim, 305 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.279 is like you take a blue collar attitude towards a 306 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:40.120 no caller job. 307 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:42.519 Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Yeah, that's 308 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:44.440 a great way to put it. And I do think 309 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.759 some of the most I don't know what the term 310 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.679 is for it now, like journeyman actors, but that obviously 311 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.480 applies to all genders. But like the people who have 312 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:58.720 been doing it consistently for years and years and years 313 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:00.879 and years, and you may not recog their face, I mean, 314 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:03.159 you may not know their name, but you definitely recognize 315 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:06.440 their face or know their voice. Those are people who 316 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.919 have been treating it not just as an art, but 317 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:15.080 as a craft, as a as a vocation, and that 318 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:19.399 practicality I think is really important. Having your feet on 319 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:20.840 the ground but your head in the clouds, like both 320 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:22.360 of those at the same time, is really great. 321 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:23.840 That's pretty good expression. 322 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.000 Thanks, Oh, thanks kind of. 323 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.919 I think I just wrote it. That's awesome. Well. 324 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:33.159 I think it's so easy, especially these days, to like 325 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.799 hyper focus on like the stars, you know, like the 326 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:40.600 of anything. You know. I had a I played football 327 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.320 in college and I had a friend who was in 328 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.120 the NFL, played for the Cleveland Browns, and he didn't 329 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:47.320 look like an NFL player, you know, he was like 330 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.879 probably like fifth on the depth chart at receiver. It 331 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.480 was like, you know, six foot one, like one hundred 332 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:55.960 and ninety pounds. And I remember going to a seven 333 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.360 to eleven with him one time and the cashier set 334 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:02.679 his shirt and it, you know, says Cleveland Browns Football. 335 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.159 And then she's like, oh, that's that's cool. Who do 336 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.799 you play football for? And he was like, Cleveland Browns 337 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:09.559 And then she's like, I didn't know there was a 338 00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:13.639 high school named after the Cleveland Browns. And he was 339 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:16.519 just like, you know, I'm in the NFL, you know. 340 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.279 And it's because you know, there's a sixty five man roster, 341 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.039 but how many players do we really know? We know 342 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.440 that Tom Brady's we know that. You know. Yeah, same 343 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:25.200 thing with a movie or a TV show. You know, 344 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:28.080 we know that the star of the show, there's like 345 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.840 hundreds of actors all around them. You know, there's background, 346 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:35.759 there's guest stars, there's you know, reoccurring, there's all these 347 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:39.519 different actors, and the same thing even into voiceover. You know, 348 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:42.320 there's the main voices and then there's you know, you 349 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.240 see all the credits. I mean, doing research on so 350 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.519 many people, there's I was just going to say, you 351 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.279 know it doesn't even have a character name. But it's 352 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.240 like I was in that movie, you know, I was 353 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:51.919 in that show. 354 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:57.080 And especially I think now with social media and that 355 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:01.279 sort of that whole economy, the creator economy and all 356 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.480 and what's you know what goes along with that, I 357 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.799 think it's even more of a trap now to fall into. 358 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.200 It's more important for me to be known than for 359 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.880 me to have that job notoriety have that. You know, 360 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.559 you have to do both if you're going to pursue 361 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:21.480 being known, if that's going to be part of what 362 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:23.400 you do, pr and all of that. And look, I'm 363 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.599 absolutely into that. I do it all the time. I 364 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:28.559 love it. I love it. I love being out there 365 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:32.119 in the world. But you also need to be focused 366 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.119 on doing a better job and doing a better job 367 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:38.079 and your craft and getting the job done. And I 368 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.359 think it can be very easy for people to look 369 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:44.640 at the stars or the names and think that's success 370 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.880 rather than additional voice. 371 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.759 And yeah, in my experience too, it comes from the 372 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:51.960 top down. I mean, I've been you know, acting for 373 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.680 eleven years now out of college, and right when I 374 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:58.839 graduated college was kind of like the beginning of the 375 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.880 era of casting by social media following. 376 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:03.279 Oh that's right, And. 377 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.319 I just did. I just literally did a movie a 378 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:08.279 couple months ago where half of the cast was all 379 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.599 because of their Instagram or social media following. Interesting, you know, 380 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:13.000 as an indie movie. 381 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:13.440 So it craze. 382 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:17.799 They want to bring eyes in and I mean even, 383 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.599 I mean look at this year even you know, there's 384 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:25.039 been what three major movies done by YouTubers, right, you know. 385 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:28.160 Iron Although I do think that that is more a 386 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.960 factor of you know, the studio system and everything kind 387 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.880 of being reimagined, and also people just getting sick and 388 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.000 tired of having to go through a bunch of gatekeepers 389 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.960 to get something done. If you have a successful YouTube 390 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.240 channel and you are surrounded by talented people and you 391 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:45.559 know how to produce a show, why not create an 392 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.680 independent show or independent movie. You know, it used to 393 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.039 be just okay, we'll kickstart it. Well, okay, now maybe 394 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.640 people can do that through their following. It's just that 395 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.599 if that movie is not good, or if those actors 396 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.880 are not good, and of course that's not going to 397 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.920 be a good movie. It's just common sense. But if 398 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.599 they're if they have built their following based on their 399 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.200 talent and based on how fun it is to watch 400 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:12.960 them and listen to them. Then I'm all for it. 401 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:17.559