Speaker 1: Big Food and on with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: These guys, are you fav It's so like say subscribe
Speaker 2: and raid it.
Speaker 3: Live Stock and.
Speaker 2: Greatest on Yesterday listening watching limb always keep its watching.
Speaker 4: And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 2: Hello, Bobo, what's going on? Man? I want yourself Cliff,
Speaker 2: nothing man, just living life, doing the thing, you know,
Speaker 2: doing the museum deal, working out all the weekends now
Speaker 2: until we get a We're gonna put feelers out for
Speaker 2: a new employee. Anybody listening wants to apply to the
Speaker 2: North American VIC the Center to be a cashier. Feel free.
Speaker 2: It's a weekend gig. The pay is low, but the
Speaker 2: benefits are high. And I don't mean like health or
Speaker 2: anything like that. Health are a retirement. I mean Squatch benefits.
Speaker 2: Lots and lots of stuff going on there all the time.
Speaker 2: You were going to learn a lot. But for most
Speaker 2: superoroking looking for weekend coverage at this point. So I
Speaker 2: am there every weekend. Anybody wants to come in and
Speaker 2: say hello to me and tell me how great the
Speaker 2: podcast is. Feel free do it on a Saturday or Sunday.
Speaker 1: Call it Bigfoot College, and you charge him to come
Speaker 1: there and do that stuff.
Speaker 2: Right, We don't pay you. You pay us. You give
Speaker 2: us your time. You get to work the cashier at
Speaker 2: a Bigfoot museum.
Speaker 4: You know that. That reminded me of you saying this.
Speaker 4: I lurk on a few online forums and I saw one.
Speaker 4: There was a thread that was I met Cliff from
Speaker 4: Finding Bigfoot, and the poster said, my wife and I
Speaker 4: were out in Sandy, Oregon today and saw a unique
Speaker 4: museum next to a pub. I think it was called
Speaker 4: the North American Bigfoot Museum or close. Walked in, paid
Speaker 4: the fee, We got to talking to the guy behind
Speaker 4: the counter, and damn, this guy was a bigfoot genius.
Speaker 4: I asked why in the hell he wasn't hosting a
Speaker 4: TV show. He looked at me, smiled and said I
Speaker 4: did for like eight years. My jaw hit the floor.
Speaker 4: Super nice guy, and I can't say enough nice things.
Speaker 4: If you're out that way, check it out.
Speaker 1: Cool.
Speaker 4: Later in the thread, someone says he has a podcast
Speaker 4: with Bobo called Bigfoot and Beyond. It actually my favorite
Speaker 4: bigfoot podcast, and another person or the original poster replied
Speaker 4: and said, listen to my first episode on the way home.
Speaker 4: It was hooked for an hour. Another person replied and
Speaker 4: said Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo, And then
Speaker 4: another person replied and said these guys are your favorites,
Speaker 4: and another person you like share, subscribe and rate it
Speaker 4: five stars. The final reply says, I'm so glad that
Speaker 4: we've got pigeons in here.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: That's really funny.
Speaker 4: That warmed the heart for sure, that's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're probably listening now. So if you did that,
Speaker 2: that's awesome. I love it. I love it. I love
Speaker 2: leaving the pigeons continue to leave Easter eggs all over
Speaker 2: the place. Well, other museum news, Bobo, you sure you're
Speaker 2: not coming up for the gig here Matt Prut speaking
Speaker 2: gig because we sold out of Matt Pruit tickets in
Speaker 2: less than one day, like seven hours after I put
Speaker 2: them up. All of the in person tickets were sold. Now,
Speaker 2: mind you, I only put them out there for museum members.
Speaker 2: And then, don't get me wrong, podcast members, I love
Speaker 2: you too, But you know, this is a museum event
Speaker 2: and museum is hosting it, and we're doing a thing
Speaker 2: at the museum. It's a museum event. So I put
Speaker 2: it out to the museum members.
Speaker 4: First.
Speaker 2: They grabbed every single ticket for in person stuff with
Speaker 2: Matt Pruitt, Bobs, I would encourage you to consider coming up.
Speaker 2: I know that you have schedule obligations and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: but you know, something goes sideways. We're up there with
Speaker 2: open arms, so come on up.
Speaker 4: Look before you answer that, Bobo, let's not I have
Speaker 4: no delusions of grand or here. I think the reason
Speaker 4: those sold so quickly is because when we talked about it,
Speaker 4: Bobo said multiple times that he might be there. I
Speaker 4: think that's probably that's a much more likely reason that
Speaker 4: people want to be there then that I'm going to
Speaker 4: be there. I think people are like, oh, Bobo might
Speaker 4: be there, and that's why they're so if Bobo now
Speaker 4: says I'm definitely not going, did maybe a lot of
Speaker 4: people ask for refunds.
Speaker 2: No, No, if you can, it'd be great to see it.
Speaker 1: Oh, thanks, But I mean Pruit's still over two thousand books.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's a lot of people that want
Speaker 1: to see pru It.
Speaker 2: Whether you make it or not, Bobo, anybody who does
Speaker 2: show up is going to see a lot of people
Speaker 2: that they have heard and read about it. I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell you what names I have verified are coming.
Speaker 2: But there are some Bigfoot royalty showing up so and
Speaker 2: probably a good handful of them. So Matt Pruit's maybe
Speaker 2: on the pedestal that evening, but there's a lot of
Speaker 2: people gathered around looking up at them.
Speaker 4: So I think we should have like a life size
Speaker 4: cardboard cutout of Bobo and just put an iPad where
Speaker 4: the face is and have Bobo live stream and we'll
Speaker 4: just walk that around with us.
Speaker 2: My god, why don't I have a life size cut
Speaker 2: out of Bobo in the museum? What have I done
Speaker 2: with my life? Do not have that?
Speaker 4: Just put an iPad on it and so like he can,
Speaker 4: he can FaceTime with his face there, So it's like
Speaker 4: you can walk up and talk to Bobo in person.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Matt, you might know this. Are there AI
Speaker 2: that can simulate voices?
Speaker 1: There?
Speaker 2: Probably are, right, Yeah, of course there are. Let's get
Speaker 2: one and make Bobo say ridiculous things.
Speaker 4: I don't think you could properly try a large language
Speaker 4: model on Bobo. I think Bobo's too vast to be
Speaker 4: captured by zeros and ones.
Speaker 2: Thank you, brutt How do you capture growls and zeros
Speaker 2: and ones stomach growls. That's not what I was thinking of,
Speaker 2: but that's funnier. So this week is a topical episode
Speaker 2: where we kind of go through in our regular lives
Speaker 2: and keep up on the news in various ways. Anytime
Speaker 2: we see an article that Bobo, Matt and I just
Speaker 2: we see an article that may pertain to something to
Speaker 2: do with bigfoot that we think is interesting, we send
Speaker 2: it in and Matt Brute compiles all of these and
Speaker 2: once every month or two or three or blue moon
Speaker 2: or whatever, we get together and we talk about the
Speaker 2: articles and kind of share them and our thoughts on them,
Speaker 2: why they're important, and what we can learn from them
Speaker 2: or anything like that. So we've got a handful of
Speaker 2: them tied up today, so let's see what we can
Speaker 2: do with them. Bobo, would you like to choose one?
Speaker 2: Or Matt would you like to choose one to start with?
Speaker 1: Oh, let Matt take the autors.
Speaker 4: I think it'd be good to start with the one
Speaker 4: point five million year old fossilized footprint find because a
Speaker 4: lot of our listeners sent that one in as well,
Speaker 4: So you had sent it in as soon as it
Speaker 4: posted online because it's obviously right up your alley and
Speaker 4: the alley of the discussions of this podcast. But I
Speaker 4: think a lot of listeners had the same idea because
Speaker 4: multiple people sent this in.
Speaker 2: That was a particularly interesting one to me. I really
Speaker 2: really liked it because I'm not only a footprint footprint guy,
Speaker 2: I'm a hayleeu anthropology guy. I really really like that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. And you know, of course, the lea
Speaker 2: totally footprints are the most the most common widely known footprints,
Speaker 2: fossilized footprints of hominin's. They doctor Meldrerim wrote an article
Speaker 2: on those, pointing out the evidence from midfoot flexibility and
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. And then so when any
Speaker 2: any other footprints fossilized footprint stuff show up, I am
Speaker 2: always looking at them. I'm always trying to find pictures
Speaker 2: of the footprints to see do they show evidence of
Speaker 2: mid tarsl flexibility. And this one, this was such an
Speaker 2: interesting article to me because not only were fossilized hominin
Speaker 2: footprints found, but two different species were found in the
Speaker 2: same fossilized you know, river bed or lake bed or
Speaker 2: whatever it was, silt bed anyway, two different species of
Speaker 2: hominin of human ancestors were found living at the same
Speaker 2: time in the same place. In fact, the scientists in
Speaker 2: this particular find are pretty sure that these footprints were
Speaker 2: not only found at the same place, but basically laid
Speaker 2: down within a few hours to a few days apart.
Speaker 2: And that is based on an analysis of the silt.
Speaker 2: And it's not silt, it's rock now, but it was silt.
Speaker 2: But you know, by looking at the rock they can
Speaker 2: learn a lot about the silt. The silt would have
Speaker 2: been washed over one another, but apparently they stepped in
Speaker 2: such a way, maybe on top of each other or
Speaker 2: so close to another, that the silt was actually like
Speaker 2: if it had been left, say a month, almost certainly
Speaker 2: some silt would have washed in and washed a lot
Speaker 2: of these away. That was not the case in the
Speaker 2: so we have very strong evidence that two different species
Speaker 2: walk through this area within a few easily within a
Speaker 2: few days of one another. Now a few days might
Speaker 2: be a week or something depending on weather conditions. Back then.
Speaker 2: What was going on we know almost nothing about all this,
Speaker 2: but it is super super interesting to me at least.
Speaker 2: The two species, if you're wondering about it, were Homorectus
Speaker 2: and a paranthropists, which you know got my eyebrows up
Speaker 2: pretty quick there, because I'm I like the idea of
Speaker 2: Sasquatch as possibly being a paranthropist of some sort, and
Speaker 2: so whenever something like that pops up, I pay extra
Speaker 2: close attention. But Homo erectus and paranthropists boise I specifically,
Speaker 2: by the way, this is a paranthropist boise eye. These
Speaker 2: two species are are pretty well known to be some
Speaker 2: of the most successful hominin species ever basically outside of humans,
Speaker 2: you know, especially during the Plsis epic, you know, the
Speaker 2: era there, both of these species were very widely dispersed,
Speaker 2: you know, particularly home Erectus. I mean home Erectus was
Speaker 2: found all the way from Indonesia to Africa, you know,
Speaker 2: so there was they were extraordinarily successful. Paranthropist boise has
Speaker 2: only been found in Africa so far. But I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be a bit surprised if they kind of wandered outside there,
Speaker 2: you know, I wouldn't expect an archaic common in the
Speaker 2: color within the lines, so to speak, you know. But
Speaker 2: also something of note in this article as well is that,
Speaker 2: you know, for the most part, most evidence of any
Speaker 2: of these extinct species come from bones. You know, when
Speaker 2: bones can kind of move around, Like if an animal
Speaker 2: rots away and there's a pile of bones there, rain
Speaker 2: can come and wash them away. Scavengers can move them
Speaker 2: before or after the meat is rotten away. So footprints
Speaker 2: are one of the only ways to actually study any
Speaker 2: level of behavior that you can actually be sure of
Speaker 2: in a way because fossilized bones before they were fossilized,
Speaker 2: even after it could wash away and move probably pretty
Speaker 2: good distances. But footprints don't do that. Footprints stay where
Speaker 2: they were put. So I guess those are the big
Speaker 2: three takeaways for me after this one is that two
Speaker 2: hominin species lived at the same time and same place,
Speaker 2: just like today, human beings are alive here, and sasquatches
Speaker 2: are alive here, and probably some other critters over there
Speaker 2: in Asia and Africa and Australian stuff. So humans are
Speaker 2: not the only biped standing so to speak. That has
Speaker 2: never been the case, I would argue. And second of all,
Speaker 2: these things were found within a few hours of one another,
Speaker 2: and it gives us a little bit of insight into
Speaker 2: their behavior and how they walk as well. So pretty
Speaker 2: cool stuff, man, pretty cool stuff. With this article.
Speaker 4: I was excited about it, absolutely, I think given this
Speaker 4: location there at Lake Turkana, which is sort of it's
Speaker 4: eastern Africa, but it's sort of northeastern. You know, the
Speaker 4: fossil record for paranthropists ends there around one point four
Speaker 4: million year years ago, and so the younger fossils, the
Speaker 4: ones that are more recent to us in time, like
Speaker 4: zero point six million years ago roughly, are more southerly,
Speaker 4: like South Africa, et cetera. So this was kind of
Speaker 4: at the tail end of at least they're represented tenure
Speaker 4: in the fossil record in eastern Africa. It at least
Speaker 4: pos us some interesting questions like maybe the emergence of
Speaker 4: something like Homo erectus on the scene created enough competitive pressure,
Speaker 4: some sort of competition for resources that drove them out
Speaker 4: of the air, because that's again right at the tail
Speaker 4: end of when we see their fossil record dry up
Speaker 4: in that part of Africa, which is really interesting.
Speaker 2: You got to wonder how much Homeorectus and paranthropists would
Speaker 2: have even competed, though what level competition because Homorectus, we
Speaker 2: don't know if they were closed, we don't know if
Speaker 2: they were hair covered or any of those sort of things,
Speaker 2: but we do know they use fire and you know,
Speaker 2: if they're using fire, that means they're probably using different
Speaker 2: food sources cooking meat, for example. And the tool use
Speaker 2: is probably vastly different as well. There's some evidence of
Speaker 2: paranthropists probably used tools, but there's absolute evidence that home
Speaker 2: Erectus did. So you got to wonder what those different
Speaker 2: adaptations that they picked up along the way, how much
Speaker 2: overlap there was, how much competition for various resources. There
Speaker 2: had to be some, of course, you know, because there's
Speaker 2: even competition today between Homo sapiens and sasquatches, you know,
Speaker 2: for like deer for example, you know, the species that
Speaker 2: humans like to hunt. They're those same species as sasquatches
Speaker 2: like the you know, so you gotta figure there's probably some.
Speaker 2: But I think that given the adaptations of like the
Speaker 2: jaw and the teeth and the chewing apparatus and paranthropists,
Speaker 2: they were probably going after largely different food items with
Speaker 2: some overlap, I'd guess.
Speaker 4: Oh, so that I would expect that there'd be some
Speaker 4: degree of overlap. I just think it's interesting that you
Speaker 4: have this cooccurrence that you can date in time that
Speaker 4: immediately precedes the sort of end of their fossil record,
Speaker 4: in that or the end of the paranthropene fossil record
Speaker 4: in that area. So it doesn't mean necessarily that they're correlated,
Speaker 4: but I think it at least poses a question.
Speaker 2: It's interesting and super cool.
Speaker 4: I think it's cool that they used three D scanning
Speaker 4: and reproducing things in three D models as well, that
Speaker 4: technology which we're using on a smaller scale. You know
Speaker 4: with our phones that you would turn me on a
Speaker 4: scan averse as an app to be used in the field.
Speaker 4: And so I know three D scanning has been used
Speaker 4: in fossil sites and to study tafonomy for quite a
Speaker 4: long time, and there were three D scans even of
Speaker 4: the Latoly site that some of those papers include that stuff.
Speaker 4: But it's still cool to see that being used in
Speaker 4: the fact that US squatchers are using a smaller scale
Speaker 4: of that to some degree too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, looking at the photographs that accompanied this
Speaker 2: article as well, these photographs of some of the prints
Speaker 2: in the ground, I love them because obviously I'm a
Speaker 2: kind of a footprint kind of guy, right, but a
Speaker 2: lot of these if I saw a sasquatch cast like this,
Speaker 2: maybe by now I'd be much more open to them.
Speaker 2: But you know, ten years ago I would have said,
Speaker 2: I had this look right to me, I think it
Speaker 2: would fake. And of course you you threw it out
Speaker 2: there to you know, a skeptic or someone who was
Speaker 2: on the fence about it. They wouldn't think that these
Speaker 2: footprints were real. These footprints and I'm looking at I
Speaker 2: can like, for for some of these, I can go
Speaker 2: through the data set and find three or four five
Speaker 2: footprint casts that strongly resemble these, But there's no there's
Speaker 2: no one's questioning that these have been hoaxed.
Speaker 1: It would be cool, is if you could uh put
Speaker 1: a big foot for like some prints impressions in like
Speaker 1: mixed in like you know, like you didn't have an
Speaker 1: inside job, but have like a real anthropologist present it
Speaker 1: to people say like, look at these footprints, we found
Speaker 1: this other hominid, and you know, every one of those
Speaker 1: actions would be like, oh, yeah, you can see that
Speaker 1: this lines up with that, Like this is obviously like
Speaker 1: a bigger version as it evolved more, you know, like
Speaker 1: that if they looked at the traction from that point
Speaker 1: of view, they'd find so much similarities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very interesting stuff, you know. And a
Speaker 2: lot of these footprints, like this one of the similarities.
Speaker 2: But that I'm seeing in this photograph here is that
Speaker 2: the heel seems almost too narrow in some of these,
Speaker 2: thus giving it kind of a fan shape when you
Speaker 2: look at the front part of the foot of the
Speaker 2: ball and the toes, and a lot of these the
Speaker 2: toes are quite well splayed, and it's very triangular, very triangular,
Speaker 2: kind of like the fan shape. I talk about the
Speaker 2: fan shape sasquatch footprint gas a lot the stuff from
Speaker 2: like Lori Hamilton or some of the stuff from Jimmy
Speaker 2: houckin the Biologist. Some of the Freeman stuff looks like that,
Speaker 2: very fan shaped, and these have the same the same signature,
Speaker 2: I suppose, very very interesting stuff, and it's it's always
Speaker 2: great to compare. And a lot of these just show
Speaker 2: four toes as well, which is another very common thing
Speaker 2: with sasquatch footprints. A lot of a lot of footprints
Speaker 2: don't have all five toes showing in them, and a
Speaker 2: lot of bigfoot researchers go the extra mile and think
Speaker 2: that the animal itself only has four toes. That's nonsense.
Speaker 2: Squatches have five toes, and they say, well, what about
Speaker 2: an accent or cutting it off? Yeah, maybe, but It's
Speaker 2: probably more likely that the Sasquatch just has a very
Speaker 2: flexible foot, as we are pretty sure they do, and
Speaker 2: the toes in the press, and that must be the
Speaker 2: case with these things too. Of course, these are very
Speaker 2: very old footprints. Do anything could happen, but a lot
Speaker 2: of these. I'm looking at a composite photograph of one, two, three, four, five,
Speaker 2: nine or ten footprints right here, and one two, three
Speaker 2: of them show all five toes. Three that's it. The
Speaker 2: rest of them have three or four toes visible because
Speaker 2: of the substrate, because of the way their feet probably
Speaker 2: interact with the ground, and of course because of the
Speaker 2: age as well. But I think the bigfoot community probably
Speaker 2: needs to let go of this idea that four toed
Speaker 2: prints mean a four toed animal. It's not true. Stay
Speaker 2: tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 4: I think Bubba had a great point about putting evidence
Speaker 4: in front of people independent of context. It reminded me.
Speaker 4: First of all, you know, Roderick Sprague wrote a bit
Speaker 4: about those the carved stoneheads found in the Columbia River,
Speaker 4: and so yeah, when Sprague was trying to get analyzes
Speaker 4: from some zoologists about it. He sent it around to
Speaker 4: a number of people for their opinions, and what he
Speaker 4: wrote about it was, quote, he said, some zoologists described
Speaker 4: the carvings as looking quote extremely monkey or ape like,
Speaker 4: asking where are they from? When the location was indicated,
Speaker 4: the reaction from these zoologists was either one of anger
Speaker 4: or of a concerted effort to erase their former comments.
Speaker 4: And so I always thought that was a fairly interesting take.
Speaker 4: And it reminded me too of you know, someone that
Speaker 4: I knew that recorded what might have been red wolf
Speaker 4: vocalizations in the interior highlands, you know of the like
Speaker 4: the Washita Range, where there used to be red wolf's historically,
Speaker 4: but now they're fairly restricted to eastern North Carolina. And
Speaker 4: so this person had sent it around and one red
Speaker 4: wolf biologist was like, oh those sound really does sound
Speaker 4: really compelling? Yeah, where'd you get that?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 4: He told them, and they said, oh no, well then
Speaker 4: it can't be because there are no red wolves there.
Speaker 4: And it goes back to that circular logic of like, well,
Speaker 4: what would it take to convince you that there might
Speaker 4: be red wolves there? Oh, well, I'd need to have
Speaker 4: some kind of evidence. Well, what about this is this evidence? No, No,
Speaker 4: that can't be because they're not there. So it would
Speaker 4: be interesting, you know, if you could, if you could
Speaker 4: put sasquatch tracks regardless of scale, because obviously, if someone
Speaker 4: sees something sixteen seventeen inches long, they're immediately probably going
Speaker 4: to be circumspect. But if you had let's say, three
Speaker 4: D scans and just said, hey, take a look at this,
Speaker 4: what do you think? You know, you wouldn't want to
Speaker 4: deceive them and say they were found in a fossil
Speaker 4: lake bed in Africa or something like that. But it
Speaker 4: would be interesting because it is the case that as
Speaker 4: soon as they hear in North America like, oh, well
Speaker 4: that can't be because there's no such thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me of that bigfoots are not real
Speaker 2: because it cannot be real. Right, as simple as that,
Speaker 2: that's all the argument you need. You're not doing it,
Speaker 2: not doing well enough, you know. Yeah, I'm loving these footprints, man,
Speaker 2: looking at these photographs. Everybody should check these out.
Speaker 4: I always put all the articles links to the articles
Speaker 4: in the show notes, so people, if you open up
Speaker 4: the episode description, you will see the links to each
Speaker 4: of these articles that we're discussing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be fun for you know, I still
Speaker 2: haven't put my my, uh my presentation together for squatch
Speaker 2: Fest at the end of the month. I'm kind of
Speaker 2: hemming and hahn which direction to go, because I've got
Speaker 2: a couple of fun things I'd like to talk about.
Speaker 2: But you know, an hour presentation doesn't give you much
Speaker 2: to talk about at the end of the day. It
Speaker 2: might be kind of fun to put a couple of
Speaker 2: these up there and put comparative sasquatch footprint casts next
Speaker 2: to them that strongly resemble them.
Speaker 4: Oh, that would be very cool.
Speaker 2: It'd be interesting, and of course it wouldn't it wouldn't as
Speaker 2: strongly resemble the home erectus ones. Well, have a couple
Speaker 2: of home erectus footprint finds already, to my knowledge, is
Speaker 2: the first Paranthropis footprint point. I mean, maybe there's others,
Speaker 2: but well, I know there was that other There's that
Speaker 2: other one that was last year, maybe about a year ago,
Speaker 2: the Laya totally tracks, you know, not not the most
Speaker 2: famous one, but there are others. There's another two or
Speaker 2: three other sites I think of Leotoli tracks at least,
Speaker 2: and they went back and uncovered them. I think we
Speaker 2: did it for a topical episode of remember, right, those
Speaker 2: may or may not be paranthropists, so it'd be interesting.
Speaker 2: And you know what, with Homo erectus and paranthropists being
Speaker 2: two of the most successful species or you know, in
Speaker 2: this case genus, it makes me wonder like maybe those
Speaker 2: are the best contenders for longevity as well, like maybe
Speaker 2: we should be looking at some of these almaistes and
Speaker 2: whatnot in that part of the world in eastern Europe,
Speaker 2: and keeping Homo Erectus in mind for possible contenders. Since
Speaker 2: they were home Erectus was by far the most successful hominin.
Speaker 2: They were around for a long time.
Speaker 4: They had a massive span as well. One of the
Speaker 4: most interesting things because obviously, when you're positing an ancestral
Speaker 4: candidate for the North American sasquatch coming over Ourgia as
Speaker 4: the most likely route to come from Asia, even if
Speaker 4: they originated outside of Asia, let's say, but at least
Speaker 4: they most likely came from Asia, and it seems like
Speaker 4: a long distance to people, and so people tend to
Speaker 4: think of those distances being covered in migrations as if
Speaker 4: you know, like a whole population gets up and marches
Speaker 4: from one place to the other over some massive distance.
Speaker 4: But there's some rough math that's been done. Roughly speaking,
Speaker 4: if you look at the fossils of Homo erectus in
Speaker 4: Africa and their emergence into Asia, which is a very
Speaker 4: like Southeastern Asia, because you know, they were all the
Speaker 4: way into Java and other parts of Indonesia and all
Speaker 4: over southeastern Asia, seems like this massive movement. So people
Speaker 4: would posit like, oh, they somehow migrated, but actually if
Speaker 4: you do the math to account for that movement, they
Speaker 4: only needed to move roughly between five and ten miles
Speaker 4: once every generation, pretty wild like, so it wasn't like
Speaker 4: they were marching across these you know, landscapes and epic
Speaker 4: vistas on this epic quest to get across the world.
Speaker 4: It's like they were just slowly expanding their populations, you know,
Speaker 4: bit by bit. To account for the span of time
Speaker 4: from Africa to Southeast Asia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's chilling and staying put, having babies and dispersing,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 4: I think another article Bobo had brought up before it
Speaker 4: was one of Bobos that he submitted, was pretty interesting
Speaker 4: if you wanted to go to one of Bobo's next
Speaker 4: was about the carnivorous squirrels.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I love it. I love it. Boba, you
Speaker 2: want to? You want to? You want to kick that
Speaker 2: one off for us?
Speaker 1: Yeah. The reason I brought this up, Okay, it's about
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area East area of California, up behind Oakland.
Speaker 1: Up in that area, they thought that squirrels were vegetarian,
Speaker 1: but they discovered these ones ground squirrels chasing and killing
Speaker 1: voles and predatory behavior ever recorded before. Experts say it
Speaker 1: fundamentally changes their understanding of squirrels, which clearly have more
Speaker 1: omnivorous and flexible diat than had been assumed. This was shocking,
Speaker 1: said Scrolls. For doctor Jennifer Smith of the University of Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: We've never seen this be here before. Squirrels are one
Speaker 1: of the most familiar animals to people. We see them
Speaker 1: right outside our windows. We interrupted them regularly. But they
Speaker 1: started seeing this and the first time they noted it
Speaker 1: was in Contra Costa County in twenty ten. And when
Speaker 1: the person reported that, the people are like, no, like
Speaker 1: you're crazy. Then they Over the next several years they
Speaker 1: saw forty two percent of the times that squirrels encountered boles,
Speaker 1: they predated on them and killed them. In ate them.
Speaker 1: I found this interesting because they said not in this
Speaker 1: arkle I read here, but I read it this is
Speaker 1: just a little yahoo come dance to one. But I
Speaker 1: read the one of the science. It was just like
Speaker 1: when the Bigfoots, when the rabbit showed about in the
Speaker 1: Desah areas of California in the seventies and.
Speaker 2: Eighties in the Analope Valley.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I got a little squash reports it was
Speaker 1: because of the uh because of that, and then they
Speaker 1: said full populations were up four hundred percent in these
Speaker 1: areas where the squirrels were eating them. And as interesting
Speaker 1: because they said that the rabbit population was up four hundred
Speaker 1: percent out there, and that's not really related. But anyways,
Speaker 1: so that they said it was because partially as they
Speaker 1: were competitive, goals were there's too many of them as competitors.
Speaker 1: And also that they just that animals adapt their diet
Speaker 1: to what is available, like more than they thought, which
Speaker 1: which I thought was interesting because the dentition of a squirrel,
Speaker 1: you know, it's teeth, and how bigfoot, how carnivorous they
Speaker 1: can be. But people always report, like we talked about
Speaker 1: in just the last episode, how their whole skull and head, jaws,
Speaker 1: and muscles and everything is set up for grinding and
Speaker 1: and you know, processing urbivore or more diet. But we
Speaker 1: know that they predate on elk and deer and everything else,
Speaker 1: I mean, anything else they can grab. So it's just
Speaker 1: one of you know, if that's if that was an
Speaker 1: adaptation to what was going on then or you know,
Speaker 1: I just thought that was interesting on that point.
Speaker 4: I think there's a whole host of animal behaviors that
Speaker 4: we're only now discovering, even in species that we think
Speaker 4: we understan and fully. I mean, I wrote a bit
Speaker 4: about the book about orangutan hunting actively hunting slowlors is, gibbons, rats, squirrels,
Speaker 4: et cetera. And it tends to be in response to
Speaker 4: environmental changes. With orangs, because they're frugivores, it would happen
Speaker 4: during times of like fruit shortages due to any number
Speaker 4: of factors, whether it's a seasonal thing or it's due
Speaker 4: to like human activity, etc. And that's a fairly recent discovery.
Speaker 4: I think that was like late twentieth century, maybe the
Speaker 4: nineteen eighties or something like that. So it makes sense
Speaker 4: in a sort of far away place like Indonesia to
Speaker 4: discover something new and rare in a rare ape species.
Speaker 4: But it's wild to think that there's anything left to
Speaker 4: be discovered about squirrels in North America, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the Bay Area, in the East Bay.
Speaker 4: But it's pretty bad ass at the same time because
Speaker 4: it does say that, you know, they were stalking and ambushing,
Speaker 4: which in a lot of other animals, those are learned
Speaker 4: behaviors that take generations to sort of formulate and to
Speaker 4: be implemented. You know, tigers are a great example of that.
Speaker 4: So it's pretty amazing that I guess, like Boba said,
Speaker 4: maybe in the last couple of decades, maybe since twenty ten,
Speaker 4: but spiking now in twenty twenty four, that they've adopted
Speaker 4: and learned and employed these behaviors successfully. So that's wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Of course, whenever there's too much of any sort
Speaker 2: of animal the other animal, as Bobo noted, like in
Speaker 2: the Antelope Valley back in the seventies, when all those
Speaker 2: rabbits showed up, suddenly there were bigfoot reports there, right,
Speaker 2: So it's one of the things that I look for,
Speaker 2: at least when I'm looking for a bigfoot spots where
Speaker 2: there's too much of a certain kind of animal, and
Speaker 2: that kind of sort of thing isn't easily observed. Have
Speaker 2: to be out there or hear about it through the
Speaker 2: grape vine and go check it out. But I remember
Speaker 2: talking about that sort of thing always brings to mind
Speaker 2: of report I took many many years ago. It's probably
Speaker 2: still in the Vfurro database. In the Sierra Nevada Mountains,
Speaker 2: there was a biologist who saw this sasquatch while hiking
Speaker 2: uptrail during the summer at a ski resort. It's like
Speaker 2: Sierra something ski resort. I don't know. I'm sure you
Speaker 2: can find it on on the BFRs side if you look.
Speaker 2: But this guy was hiking up to this meadow to
Speaker 2: do a survey. He's a biologist, like I said, do
Speaker 2: a survey at the plants. And he saw what he
Speaker 2: thought was a tall, thin female sasquatch on the way
Speaker 2: up and whatever else. And when I was talking to
Speaker 2: him afterwards, I said, I was asked, you know, of course,
Speaker 2: how big was a book, you know, book colorosa hair
Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff. But I asked him,
Speaker 2: was like, so you don't notice anything unusual, like where
Speaker 2: there are too many of a certain kind of plant?
Speaker 2: Because he's a biologist, why, I asked, I think, like
Speaker 2: too many of a certain kind of plan or is
Speaker 2: there anything unusual about the you know, the balance of
Speaker 2: nature that you saw on the way up or down?
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, now that you mentioned it, that's there
Speaker 2: is something. All these little creeks that I was crossing
Speaker 2: had more brook trout in him than I've ever seen
Speaker 2: anywhere else in my entire life. In fact, you could
Speaker 2: practically walk on them. I've never seen so many in
Speaker 2: any place in my entire life. As oh, well, isn't
Speaker 2: that something so again, when when too much of something
Speaker 2: shows up, the animals are not going to be that
Speaker 2: far behind, whether it's sasquatches or squirrels in this case.
Speaker 2: And there's one more thing before it before I passed
Speaker 2: the mic, so to speak. Is there's a photograph in
Speaker 2: this particular Yahoo News article of a squirrel holding a furry,
Speaker 2: delicious chunk of a vole and eating it and like
Speaker 2: pulling like the fat and stuff away, or that the
Speaker 2: meat away, and it's all stretching out. But I don't
Speaker 2: know if you guys are looking at the same picture
Speaker 2: or not, but man, what a bad ass look and
Speaker 2: squirrel that is look a left ear, left ear is
Speaker 2: like half missing. Like that thing's gnarly. That thing is gnarly.
Speaker 2: But I guess when your food fights back, as you
Speaker 2: know pretty much all carnivores have to deal with, that's
Speaker 2: bound to happen eventually.
Speaker 4: It is pretty bad ass. That said, you know, successful
Speaker 4: kills often involved decapitation, so they're pretty ruthless little warlords.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course they're not the only one. What
Speaker 2: about deer deer in elk They don't get enough credit
Speaker 2: for being for being the monsters that they are as
Speaker 2: well either. Like again, I'll go back. I mentioned this
Speaker 2: during my life presentation sometimes. But there's an amazing video.
Speaker 2: In fact, I'm not even sure we should post it proved,
Speaker 2: but it's up to you if you want to do
Speaker 2: it or not. But there's this amazing video on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Everybody knows what a body farm is. I assume where
Speaker 2: you know, you could leave your body to science and
Speaker 2: they'd leave your corpse out in various conditions, and science
Speaker 2: forensic scientists come and study how it decomposes, and that
Speaker 2: helps police officers solve crimes and cold cases and all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, you know, forensic science stuff. These
Speaker 2: are called body farms. I think there's one in Tennessee there.
Speaker 2: I think there's one in Texas. Maybe they seem to
Speaker 2: be more prevalent in the South.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the major ones it associated with the University of
Speaker 4: Tennessee outside of Knoxville. I actually had a chance to
Speaker 4: go there in I think it was two thousand and seven,
Speaker 4: but I didn't get to go. But some people that
Speaker 4: you know that I took that tracking course, the Joel
Speaker 4: Harden tracking course, with a couple of my Georgia friends.
Speaker 4: They had an invite to go there as part of
Speaker 4: a tracking sort of like a search and rescue training
Speaker 4: thing and open invite, and I really wanted to go.
Speaker 4: But maybe I'm glad, maybe just a blessing that I
Speaker 4: didn't go see that, because they described some of the
Speaker 4: things they saw. It was pretty gnarly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't unsee that stuff, that's for sure. Well,
Speaker 2: and of course that's also where doctor Grover Krantz left
Speaker 2: his body after he died and to kind of get
Speaker 2: pecked by bugs and insects and stuff.
Speaker 1: And we didn't tell them why we brought it up.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'll get there. But yeah, now, of
Speaker 2: course Krantz's bones are in the Smithsonian, but his body
Speaker 2: was actually taking care of one of these body farms,
Speaker 2: so we can keep on teaching. But anyway, there's this
Speaker 2: video from one of these places, and of course they
Speaker 2: have to tie the bodies down a lot of times
Speaker 2: because they would be dragged away by scavengers of various source.
Speaker 2: But in one of these videos, taken by a trail
Speaker 2: cam at one of these body farms, is a deer
Speaker 2: standing over a human corpse kind of pecking at it,
Speaker 2: and like at one point, if I remember right, it
Speaker 2: looks up at the camera and actually has a human
Speaker 2: rib bone in its mouth. Yeah, an entirely new perspective
Speaker 2: on BAMBI. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with
Speaker 2: Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 1: There's two different videos of deer like hunting and killing
Speaker 1: and eating snakes snakes.
Speaker 2: I've seen one with mice in it before. I didn't
Speaker 2: know about the snake one. That's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a pretty big snake too.
Speaker 4: The one got that's crazy. I hadn't seen that. I
Speaker 4: have to check that out.
Speaker 2: And of course part of the reason they do this
Speaker 2: is that calcium is a very very rare commodity in
Speaker 2: North American forest, especially if you're a herbivore, So they
Speaker 2: have to get the calcium an unculate, right, So you
Speaker 2: have to get the calcium from somewhere, otherwise you can't
Speaker 2: grow those antlers.
Speaker 1: Yeah you need antlers for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who doesn't, sobum might haven't grown back since I shed.
Speaker 4: You have to wonder if anyone's ever observed this behavior
Speaker 4: and tried to report it and wasn't believed, Like, Hey,
Speaker 4: I saw a squirrel hunt and kill a rodent and
Speaker 4: decapitated and people, Yeah, sure you did, buddy.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, you know it.
Speaker 1: The professional wasn't believed at first. But you know, as
Speaker 1: you say, the reason I brought up the whole thing
Speaker 1: about the squirrels was because relating to Bigfoot, well is
Speaker 1: do you think then that was a later adaptation, whether
Speaker 1: it became more carnivorous, like started eating like way more
Speaker 1: meat after they'd already evolved into this giant plant mastricating
Speaker 1: giant head.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: That's the kind of the theory that I floated in
Speaker 4: the book, was that, you know, it could be the
Speaker 4: case that due to the same pressures that cause ranus
Speaker 4: to shift to hunting pressure or the same pressures that
Speaker 4: you get put on chimpanzees in places where they become
Speaker 4: more reliant on hunting. You know, I try to pull
Speaker 4: examples from the known apes to say, like, well, under
Speaker 4: these circumstances, and some of those are due to human
Speaker 4: conflict or competition, and so you know, I'm using the
Speaker 4: gigantipithecus model in the book. But gigantos shared the landscape,
Speaker 4: you know, they were sympatrick with Homo erectus for over
Speaker 4: a million years, and there would have been overlap with
Speaker 4: Homo sapiens.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: The most recent Gigantipithecus fossils in Asia are from the
Speaker 4: Lang Tren Cave in northern Vietnam. Those are roughly like
Speaker 4: eighty to one hundred thousand years old, and then zero
Speaker 4: dongs here in cave are the oldest Homo sapien remains,
Speaker 4: which are dated somewhere between like one and one hundred
Speaker 4: and twenty thousand years old. So there is some overlap,
Speaker 4: especially assuming like that wasn't the very first human who
Speaker 4: showed up there, and that wasn't the very last gig
Speaker 4: I guess that died there, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: So I try to lay out, like, here's all these
Speaker 4: factors that might have driven these generalist herbivores to start
Speaker 4: exploiting meat as a food resource, and we see that
Speaker 4: in these other well documented the known apes, and all
Speaker 4: those factors could easily apply, or any combination of all
Speaker 4: those factors. So yeah, I would think that that would
Speaker 4: be the case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly like traveling in more temperate regions where fruit
Speaker 2: would probably be more scarce, I would think than tropical
Speaker 2: regions for example. Maybe I'm way off on that, but
Speaker 2: it seems to me. There's a lot of berries and
Speaker 2: that sort of thing, but it seems to be that
Speaker 2: fruit in general is just a bit more rare once
Speaker 2: you get about a forty fifth parallel, you know, certainly.
Speaker 2: All right, well, let's go onto another article here. This
Speaker 2: one is we found it on earth dot com and
Speaker 2: the title is Chimpanzees can plant adapt their use of
Speaker 2: tools just like humans. And for me, like you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not one to underestimate apes, I don't think very much.
Speaker 2: I know how amazing they are, I know how human
Speaker 2: like they are, and also how ape like humans are.
Speaker 2: You know, we're all family, so to speak, and so
Speaker 2: in a way I almost struggled with this in a
Speaker 2: way because to me, finding out that chimpanzees, okay it
Speaker 2: can use and discern which tools are the best and
Speaker 2: adapt to them, to me, it's like a no dumb moment.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, and my big takeaway for that, well,
Speaker 2: let me talk about the article I guess first. So basically,
Speaker 2: they found that chimpanzees, when presented with a bunch of
Speaker 2: different kinds of stones, they would choose the best stone
Speaker 2: for that particular job. Okay, Now, even if the stones
Speaker 2: weren't from that location. So they would introduce stones to
Speaker 2: an area with a bunch of nuts, for example, then
Speaker 2: breaking of nuts by stone is a known chimpanzee behavior, right,
Speaker 2: So they would introduce a bunch of stones that were
Speaker 2: not necessarily from that area, and a variety of shapes
Speaker 2: and sizes and this and that and whatever, and the
Speaker 2: chimpanzees would go through and choose the ones that they
Speaker 2: felt would work the best, and to their surprise, they
Speaker 2: often chose correctly. And also to their surprise, if the chimpanzee,
Speaker 2: halfway through the task decided that this isn't doing it,
Speaker 2: they would find the right kind of tool that would
Speaker 2: help them do it better. And I guess the big
Speaker 2: takeaway for me is that even though it seems like no, duh, Yeah,
Speaker 2: of course, of course they're going to do that. Anybody
Speaker 2: would do that, you know, but you know, for a
Speaker 2: lot of scientists, chimpanzees aren't necessarily buddies, you know. Anybody
Speaker 2: isn't a person, you know, they aren't people enough to
Speaker 2: do that. But at the same time time, of course
Speaker 2: they would, of course they would. But and so I
Speaker 2: started thinking about it's like, why is this really science?
Speaker 2: Like why is this news? And I realized, oh, it's
Speaker 2: actually because of the science that this is news, because
Speaker 2: it is observed and documented and measured. Now, things that
Speaker 2: are obvious may not be scientifically it's not like they're
Speaker 2: not scientifically true. I'm having a hard time describing this.
Speaker 2: The things that are obvious that you wouldn't think would
Speaker 2: need to be proven, Sure, go the extra mile when
Speaker 2: you have data to support it. You know. It reminds
Speaker 2: me of when doctor Anna Nakaris was asking me about
Speaker 2: sasquatch behavior and I was telling her and she goes, well,
Speaker 2: how do you know this? And I go, well, this
Speaker 2: and this and this and just yeah, but where's your data?
Speaker 2: And I realized, oh, shoot, I don't really have data. Necessarily,
Speaker 2: I have accounts, but data isn't really data until well,
Speaker 2: I guess it is. But you got to crunch it,
Speaker 2: you got to analyze it, you got to do the
Speaker 2: work with the data to make it mean something. And
Speaker 2: to me, oddly enough, that's the takeaway from this article,
Speaker 2: for me at least, is that things that seem obvious
Speaker 2: may still need to be supported with evidence. Otherwise you're
Speaker 2: just talking out your butt, you know, at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, like, of course sasquatches do this, of
Speaker 2: course they do that. Well, how do you know that, Well,
Speaker 2: because everybody knows that. Well, a lot of those things
Speaker 2: aren't true. Well because I saw this once, you know once.
Speaker 2: To say that they do this implies that the entire
Speaker 2: species does this. And so even something as obvious as
Speaker 2: a very intelligent animal like a chimpanzee would choose the
Speaker 2: appropriate tool for the job or change its strategy if
Speaker 2: the initial choice wasn't the right one. Even if something
Speaker 2: as obvious and the written as that still needs to
Speaker 2: be supported with data and evidence. Otherwise, again, you're just
Speaker 2: talking about what you feel and nobody cares. You know,
Speaker 2: your feelings don't go very far in science. They need
Speaker 2: supporting observations and to make it not true because it's
Speaker 2: true anyway. Again, science doesn't tell you what's true. Science
Speaker 2: tells you what's supported by evidence. We can see what's true.
Speaker 2: But you know, science isn't the dictator of what is
Speaker 2: true and what's false. It's what we can learn out
Speaker 2: of what is true and what's false. You know, am
Speaker 2: I making sense here? Or what helped me out? Guys?
Speaker 2: Am I making sense?
Speaker 1: Or what?
Speaker 2: Can you clarify what I'm trying to say? You guys
Speaker 2: don't be well enough.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: For something to be considered scientifically valid, it needs to
Speaker 4: be not only documented but quantifiable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. I should have just passed the mic
Speaker 2: to you to be in with and could endit this
Speaker 2: podcast in a half hour ago.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, I know it's es deefinitely worth talking
Speaker 4: those things through and talking them out, because, yeah, there's
Speaker 4: a number of things that we could probably bring up
Speaker 4: as an example that are you know, within the known
Speaker 4: category colloquially but maybe not scientifically validated to the standard
Speaker 4: that other things have been validated or at least verified
Speaker 4: via data that's quantifiable. And there's a number of things
Speaker 4: that just cannot be studied. Like I end up talking
Speaker 4: about this a lot because we focus a lot on
Speaker 4: instinct and what things are innate and hardwired instincts, and
Speaker 4: what things are learned, you know, nature versus nurture. You
Speaker 4: know certain learned complex behaviors. And the reality is like,
Speaker 4: you cannot observe instincts, they're unobservable. You can observe behavior
Speaker 4: from which you can infer an instinct, especially if you're
Speaker 4: looking at a population that spans across multiple environments, multiple ecosystems,
Speaker 4: let's say. And if a behavior is stable regardless of
Speaker 4: the environment, then that's more likely to be an instinct
Speaker 4: versus if it's more labile, that it's context dependent, it
Speaker 4: only occurs in certain environments and not others among the
Speaker 4: same species, then it's more likely to be learned. But again,
Speaker 4: you can't observe an instinct. You can't prove the existence
Speaker 4: of an instinct. You can only infer it from observing, documenting,
Speaker 4: and quantifying instances of behavior. And so I think things
Speaker 4: like this do point to maybe both nature and nurture,
Speaker 4: and the fact that it is shared across closely related
Speaker 4: species suggests or from which we can infer that maybe
Speaker 4: those things predated the last common ancestor between ourselves and chimps.
Speaker 2: And of course this whole breaking of nuts sort of thing,
Speaker 2: you know, this whole nutcracker sort of observation or the
Speaker 2: behavior that they're observing as President's sasquatches as well. I mean,
Speaker 2: some of the best stuff that I've seen came out
Speaker 2: of that the NEWAC paper. Forgot what that's called, but
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4: The washer Tap Project monograph. And I've seen some of
Speaker 4: those nut crushing stations. I've seen several of them down
Speaker 4: there in Area X, and they are pretty remarkable to see,
Speaker 4: and it's hard to find an alternative explanation other than
Speaker 4: that something with hands was responsible for that. Given the
Speaker 4: location of some of these, it's like, I don't think
Speaker 4: it was people. And then some of them are in
Speaker 4: not obvious places, but in places they are easy to
Speaker 4: see from old road beds and things like that, where
Speaker 4: you know, I guess someone who really skeptical could say, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: person did this, but it's like, for what reason, to
Speaker 4: what end? But then we've found ones that were well
Speaker 4: away from anything, kind of in the heart of big
Speaker 4: thickets in secondary drainages that feed to the main creek,
Speaker 4: where you're like, oh, here's another example, Like that's pretty bizarre.
Speaker 4: So I can link to the paper there, because yeah,
Speaker 4: most people who are interested in the subject should read
Speaker 4: that paper. And the paper's pretty scientific and for that reason,
Speaker 4: intentionally sterile. I mean, there's a lot of exciting things
Speaker 4: outlined in that paper, but it doesn't quite read like
Speaker 4: a narrative because it's presented like a monograph that details
Speaker 4: an observational field study. But if you want the story,
Speaker 4: the narrative version, you know, my good friend Mike may
Speaker 4: Is his book Valley of the Apes to Search for
Speaker 4: Sasquatch and Area X is a fantastic read. So I'll
Speaker 4: put links to actually both of those the read pdf
Speaker 4: document that the NAWC offers, and if you want to
Speaker 4: read Mike's book, I'll link that as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just whatever it's worth, we have autographed copies
Speaker 2: of that in the date of an ABC store.
Speaker 4: That's the link I'll put in. Everybody wins, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: And then our next to last article, we do have
Speaker 4: an article that Bobo submitted that's well in keeping with
Speaker 4: one of my favorite books on the evolution of apes altogether.
Speaker 4: So if you want to set up that article.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they had a recent discovery, well not that recent,
Speaker 1: but I guess the skull was found in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1: It's really well preserved in the Anatolian section of Anatolia
Speaker 1: Mountains of Turkey, and it's kind of There's been a
Speaker 1: lot more theory coming that Hominin's actually originated out of
Speaker 1: Europe and dispersed back into Africa. They found this skull,
Speaker 1: it's like eight point seven eight point seven million years old.
Speaker 1: They is the best guess on that, and they're part
Speaker 1: of the earliest known group of hamas, which includes not
Speaker 1: only African airs like chimpanzees, banevas, and girls, but also
Speaker 1: humans and their fossil ancestors. So yeah, that theories gained
Speaker 1: in traction, and especially with this this skull, because it
Speaker 1: suggests not only that Hominin is not only evolved in
Speaker 1: western and central Europe, but spent over five million years
Speaker 1: evolving there and spreading to eastern Mediterranean before eventually this
Speaker 1: person into Africa, probably as a consequence of changing environments
Speaker 1: and diminishing for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a problem with that though. They're not
Speaker 2: using the word hominin correctly, they're using hominin as a
Speaker 2: derivative of a larger group.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say that I caught that. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I to need to cut you off. But no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I probably cut you off. I apologize no, because I
Speaker 1: was like, I was questioning myself. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: Nature and Science magazine can't get this wrong like that,
Speaker 1: there's this whole article in a doubt.
Speaker 4: Well, I think we're seeing like the Earth dot com version,
Speaker 4: so it's like their reporting of the the source article.
Speaker 4: And so yeah, very often people get those things wrong
Speaker 4: and they don't differentiate between hominoids, hominids and hominins. In
Speaker 4: popular media, that gets screwed up very often, and then
Speaker 4: that sort of misunderstanding gets applied colloquially, and so I
Speaker 4: end up spending a lot of time sort of clarifying
Speaker 4: that for people, the various differences and trying to find analogies.
Speaker 4: You know, that work. I end up because I'm food motivated.
Speaker 4: I try to explain to people, well, you know, it's
Speaker 4: like all hominins are hominids and hominoids, but not all
Speaker 4: hominids are homin ends, and not all hominoids are hominids.
Speaker 4: And so it's like all eminems are chocolates, but not
Speaker 4: all chocolates are minems, and all chocolates are candy, but
Speaker 4: not all candies are chocolates. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Right? What a confusion exactly? Then you get it or
Speaker 1: you're done. I guess.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 1: The first time I heard of hominids and hominids was
Speaker 1: to meet your Bayanov, the great late Russian researcher for
Speaker 1: the omissey what they call them, the Russian snowman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they called them the snowman. But where when did
Speaker 1: that start? The hominid hominid?
Speaker 2: It's fairly recent, I think, because there's been a lot
Speaker 2: of back and forth over the last few decades.
Speaker 1: Even I think the Russians introduced it. I think like
Speaker 1: those guys like Dmitri and his crew, I think they
Speaker 1: might have actually been the guys that started that.
Speaker 4: Well, they didn't originate that the nomenclature, because the nomenclature
Speaker 4: was used for you know, the living apes, including humans
Speaker 4: and fossil apes, and then there were there's older taxons
Speaker 4: or taxa that I still see, like pongd is a
Speaker 4: now obsolete tax and that I still see people use
Speaker 4: that you would have seen in print like the eighties
Speaker 4: and maybe even the nineties, but is now considered obsolete.
Speaker 4: Everything that was once pongd is now housed under hominid,
Speaker 4: and so orangutans are not considered pongids. They're hominids like gorillas,
Speaker 4: et cetera. And then outside of that you have lesser
Speaker 4: apes which are hominoids. Homonoid includes the lesser apes, the
Speaker 4: great apes, the humans, human relatives, et cetera, of human
Speaker 4: ancestral relatives, and so that nomenclature does change quite a
Speaker 4: bit over time. First it was Boris Porsnev, the original
Speaker 4: Russian researcher into mystery apes, and he positive the term
Speaker 4: relict homanoid to include, like, wherever these things fall on
Speaker 4: that family tree, they will be homonoids, whether they're discovered
Speaker 4: to be hominids or homin end's, at some point they'll
Speaker 4: all be under that larger umbrella of hamanoid. And you know,
Speaker 4: Meldrim sort of resurrected that term probably maybe fifteen years
Speaker 4: ago something of that nature, not only with you know,
Speaker 4: he later titled his journal The Relict Homanoid Inquiry, but
Speaker 4: you know, with that same thing in mind, giving a
Speaker 4: tip of the hat to portionev, but also saying like,
Speaker 4: no matter what these things turn out to be, whether
Speaker 4: sasquatches are ranked index, the migoid, Yairen, whatever the case
Speaker 4: may be, they will certainly all be hominoids, no matter
Speaker 4: where else. They all higher up on that branching. So
Speaker 4: I think Dimitri might have been putting the cart before
Speaker 4: the horse to refer to some of those things as Haminen's.
Speaker 4: So I think portionive was key to he had the
Speaker 4: right idea. And Porsiv's book has recently been translated into
Speaker 4: English and published. But to further confuse the matter between
Speaker 4: the Almasi Almahsti the Captar, you know, these these various
Speaker 4: Asian and Central Asian mystery apes, the Barmanu, et cetera,
Speaker 4: which are markedly different than the sasquatch in many ways.
Speaker 4: When Porsiv's manuscript was printed in English, they called it
Speaker 4: the Soviet Sasquatch. So it's like they did portion of
Speaker 4: a disservice. But it's a great read. I recommend everyone
Speaker 4: read that. I'll put a link to that in the
Speaker 4: show notes too.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised how big these things were there, between fifty
Speaker 1: and sixty kilograms, so like one and ten to one
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five and forty.
Speaker 2: Pounds, which is the chimpanzee size.
Speaker 1: Yeah, big, big chimp. The fossil suggests that anadol Luvius
Speaker 1: lived in a dry forest environment and likely spent us
Speaker 1: with a significant amount of time on the ground.
Speaker 4: I was going to say one of my favorite because
Speaker 4: they referenced David Began here at the University of Toronto.
Speaker 4: Because as soon as I saw the headline of the
Speaker 4: article you sent, I thought, oh, this is right up
Speaker 4: Began's alley, because Began wrote a book a number of
Speaker 4: years ago called The Real Planet of the Apes, and
Speaker 4: he's one of the major proponents and makes an extremely
Speaker 4: compelling case for you know, what we would call modern apes,
Speaker 4: or apes in the modern sense, having evolved in Eurasia
Speaker 4: rather than in Africa, even though you know primates came
Speaker 4: out of Africa, but whatever turned into modern apes having
Speaker 4: occurred in Eurasia. And he wrote a great book about
Speaker 4: It's one of my favorite books about the apes. And
Speaker 4: so as soon as I opened the article, and you
Speaker 4: see Professor David Began from the University of Toronto, you know,
Speaker 4: and professor alias Savim a Role I might be mispronouncing
Speaker 4: that from Ankara University led the international team of researchers
Speaker 4: who conducted this study, and you know Began and someone
Speaker 4: I would love to speak to at some point in time,
Speaker 4: just because I loved his book so much. It's a
Speaker 4: really fascinating insight, and he does have a bit of
Speaker 4: a Bigfoot reference in there. In fact, he's been featured
Speaker 4: in a few Bigfoot documentaries. I can't remember if it
Speaker 4: was something like Monster Quest or I've seen him in
Speaker 4: some of these one off things and even in the
Speaker 4: Real Planet of the Apes. He says, quote, I hesitate
Speaker 4: to bring this up, but well, we all know about
Speaker 4: the reports of a gigantic bipedal ape roaming the forests
Speaker 4: of the northwestern wilderness of North America and parts of
Speaker 4: northern Central Asia. And then he goes on to describe
Speaker 4: it a bit, and he says, there's no evidence of Bigfoot,
Speaker 4: but I am among some I suspect many professionals who
Speaker 4: wish that this were not so. And so he's got
Speaker 4: a little bit of hopefulness and he says, you know,
Speaker 4: I conclude with some sadness that there's no evidence of Bigfoot,
Speaker 4: but I hope to be proven wrong, and I look
Speaker 4: forward to the feedback from the community of believers. So
Speaker 4: it seems like he's somewhat open. So he's someone I'd
Speaker 4: love to talk to. So maybe a listener in Toronto
Speaker 4: will pass this along that we're celebrating his work.
Speaker 2: Heah, what else can I ask for from a working
Speaker 2: primatologist is an open mind about the evidence. Because I
Speaker 2: think the primatologists themselves, some of which listen to this podcast,
Speaker 2: I might say, so hello, are probably the first to
Speaker 2: admit that they haven't been exposed to a wide breadth
Speaker 2: of evidence, and certainly not enough to move the dial,
Speaker 2: you know. But that's where we come in, a fairly normal, sober,
Speaker 2: pretty intelligent group of people who are advocating for evidence.
Speaker 2: Because I say it all the time. It's a Terrence
Speaker 2: mckinnic quote, but I say it all the time. The
Speaker 2: truth can withstand the scrutiny. Come on in, take a
Speaker 2: look at the evidence. Let's get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I do. I reference Becan's book in my book.
Speaker 4: It's just such a great book. So again I'll link
Speaker 4: that in the show notes. I think anyone who's interested
Speaker 4: in this stuff should read David Began's book, but this
Speaker 4: article will obviously be linked there as well.
Speaker 2: It's on the bookshelf behind me right now.
Speaker 4: It's a great one.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, you know that brings us to our last article,
Speaker 2: and this is the I have to admit this is
Speaker 2: my favorite. Then could we have a very special treat
Speaker 2: for everybody today too that goes along with this. But first,
Speaker 2: let's let's talk about the article. The article is actually
Speaker 2: a press release more than anything else. Here's the title
Speaker 2: right here, Hangar one Publishing author Tom Powell issues a
Speaker 2: formal statement amidst drone, citing speculation. Now, of course everybody
Speaker 2: knows about all the drones of her New Jersey and many, many,
Speaker 2: many other parts of the country. My wife was following
Speaker 2: this pretty closely for a while because she's a big
Speaker 2: UFO fan, and New Jersey got most of the press.
Speaker 2: But apparently this was happening in other places throughout the
Speaker 2: United States. I know that a bunch of stuff was
Speaker 2: seen outside of Eugene, Oregon down here. There's some up
Speaker 2: in Washington or Seattle where else, probably a few other
Speaker 2: handful of places that I'm forgetting right now, but the
Speaker 2: drone thing, which has kind of died down at this moment,
Speaker 2: but they're still going on. Apparently this sort of thing
Speaker 2: is still going on. Of course, many many of these
Speaker 2: drones are just normal aircraft, right, many many of them,
Speaker 2: but not all of them. And even scientists and the
Speaker 2: pilots and the military folks and the governments and stuff,
Speaker 2: even they admit that, like, yeah, there's the you know,
Speaker 2: some of those are just normal things and people are
Speaker 2: panicking over nothing, but there's there's something going on. And
Speaker 2: of course that everybody knows that. These these hearings were
Speaker 2: going on because politicians in New Jersey in the area
Speaker 2: were going, hey, government, you're not really doing anything about
Speaker 2: this stuff. But if these are not ours and you
Speaker 2: say they're not ours, they say, you say that they're
Speaker 2: not this or that, but you're not telling us what
Speaker 2: they are. But you're saying, oh, but don't worry about it.
Speaker 2: That's not a lot of that's not a lot of
Speaker 2: you know comfort. I suppose we don't know what they are,
Speaker 2: but you don't need to worry about it. Well, that's
Speaker 2: that's not good enough. Right, that's that's ridiculous, So that
Speaker 2: the article here, I'm going to read some of this
Speaker 2: stuff just because it's it's awesome. Tom Powell addresses recent
Speaker 2: drone citing speculation. Of course, Tom palif you're new to
Speaker 2: the program here, he is a kind of a prolific
Speaker 2: author about weird stuff. He started out as a big footer.
Speaker 2: In fact, he started out as flesh and blood bigfooter,
Speaker 2: and I think he got kind of bored with it
Speaker 2: and found other things to look into and started exploring
Speaker 2: the weird side of stuff, went paranormal, and now he's
Speaker 2: kind of all over the place paranormalist. We just had
Speaker 2: him on the podcast for the second time, just a
Speaker 2: couple of months ago, maybe this past summer, if I
Speaker 2: remember right. We had him on years and years and
Speaker 2: years ago when we were first starting out as well.
Speaker 2: He's a good friend of everybody's on the podcast and
Speaker 2: one of our favorite people in the world, let alone
Speaker 2: in the paranormal community, right, which I don't really consider
Speaker 2: myself in the paranormal community at all, but I know
Speaker 2: a lot of the people out there, and I you know,
Speaker 2: as long as we're not weird and poshy about it
Speaker 2: and stuff and defensive. I love it, and Tom is
Speaker 2: really the poster child for that. He said, clap, I'm
Speaker 2: so glad you're doing the ape thing. That means I
Speaker 2: don't have to. There's way better things to look into.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: He's encouraging of my work, and I'm encouraging of his work.
Speaker 2: It's just awesome. So here's the press release though Portland, Oregon,
Speaker 2: December third, twenty twenty four. Renowned paranormal phenomena research and
Speaker 2: Hanger one publishing author Tom Powell has issued a formal
Speaker 2: statement addressing recent speculation regarding the connection between mysterious drone
Speaker 2: sidings and the release of his latest book, Planet Strange.
Speaker 2: While the timing has led to considerable speculation, I want
Speaker 2: to be absolutely clear that neither I nor anyone associated
Speaker 2: with my work has any involvement with the recent drone incidents,
Speaker 2: states Powell. These sidings, though coincidentally aligned with themes explored
Speaker 2: in Planet Strange, are entirely separate from my book's release
Speaker 2: and promotional activities. The statement comes in response to growing
Speaker 2: social media speculation linking the unexplained aerial phenomena to the
Speaker 2: book's publication, Planet Strange, which examines various paranormal occurrences in
Speaker 2: their potential local origins, was released several months before the
Speaker 2: reported drone sightings began. So, uh yeah, so that's the
Speaker 2: Jedda goes on. You can read about it. We'll be
Speaker 2: posting this with the show links and stuff. So just
Speaker 2: to be clear everybody, Tom Powell himself has come out
Speaker 2: to say he has nothing to do with the recent
Speaker 2: drone signings in New Jersey, so everybody can relax about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's exactly what I would expect a Macavelian
Speaker 4: intergalactic mastermind to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone will say, like what, Tom Poll's I kept
Speaker 1: hearing this, Tom Pole's behind this, Tom Pole's behind it.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what we don't. You don't have to
Speaker 2: listen to me, as I tell everybody almost every week here.
Speaker 2: Don't believe me, go look it up for yourself, fact
Speaker 2: check me. I'm wrong all the time. Let's let you
Speaker 2: probably heard enough of us by now. Let's go straight
Speaker 2: to the source. Let's go out to the field. Our
Speaker 2: roving weird, our senior weird correspondent, Tom Powell, is actually
Speaker 2: on the line right now. Okay, So here we are
Speaker 2: with Tom Powell, our official senior Beyond correspondent, Senior Weird
Speaker 2: correspondent here on Bigfoot and Beyond. Thank you Tom for joining.
Speaker 2: I understand you have some thoughts on a certain topic.
Speaker 3: I have thoughts on many topics.
Speaker 2: Exactly, And I wouldn't mind making this like a regular
Speaker 2: feature whenever you have something to add, for something that's
Speaker 2: in the news or something you want to add. I
Speaker 2: think it would be a fantastic opportunity for you to
Speaker 2: come on and share your thoughts with us, because it's
Speaker 2: a lot of fun to talk to you all the time.
Speaker 2: You're always up to something weird.
Speaker 3: Don't get me started.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I don't want you to stop, let alone start.
Speaker 2: You know, well, you know that everybody's paying attention right now.
Speaker 2: I guess to these New Jersey drones. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know what if our listeners have been paying attention.
Speaker 2: It seems like everybody has. All these drones are flying
Speaker 2: over New Jersey. There's panic in the streets. People are
Speaker 2: saying they're UFOs. God knows what's going on. The Government
Speaker 2: of Courses in full denial mode. Matt Moneymaker has been
Speaker 2: tweeting and putting things on Facebook about plasmoids that there's
Speaker 2: just all sorts of crazy stuff out there right now.
Speaker 2: Maybe you don't have this thing nailed down, but you
Speaker 2: have some thoughts on this, and I'd love to know
Speaker 2: what they are.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I could summarize the whole thing in two words,
Speaker 3: Christmas drones. Christmas drones. So you used to live in Portland,
Speaker 3: do you remember that Christmas ships. They'd sail around with
Speaker 3: a million lights on, blasting their horns. They weren't stealth,
Speaker 3: you know, they weren't trying to sneak into submarine pens
Speaker 3: and blow them up. They were out there advertising their thing.
Speaker 3: They were the Christmas Ships, and they would sail up
Speaker 3: and down the Atlanta River, the Columbia River wherever, and
Speaker 3: everybody would go out and enjoy the lights. Well, it
Speaker 3: was a seasonal thing, and I think there are perhaps
Speaker 3: paranormal entities who wish to sort of like join in
Speaker 3: on that. They must know it's Christmas and so they're advertising.
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, look look at the situation. They're
Speaker 3: not being stealth. There's a million YouTube videos and these
Speaker 3: things are advertising their presence, and in most cases they're
Speaker 3: flashing red and green lights, which is like an FAA requirement.
Speaker 3: But they don't behave like aircraft. But they're certainly not
Speaker 3: being stealth. Now, and think about this for a minute.
Speaker 3: You know, you have to apply some rules of logic.
Speaker 3: If they're not being stealth, then they can't be for
Speaker 3: an adversary. Adversaries. Foreign adversaries would not come in with
Speaker 3: lights on, nor would advanced military come in with lights on,
Speaker 3: Nor would they test their stuff in public. They would
Speaker 3: test it all over secret bases at night. And they
Speaker 3: admit this thing. So g could it be all these
Speaker 3: private hobbyists who bought drones at Best Buy? No, because
Speaker 3: the things are way too large in many cases, and
Speaker 3: they have very long flight times and their flight characteristics.
Speaker 3: They're not hobbyists. If it's a government thing, then it
Speaker 3: would have to be a psyop in other words, a
Speaker 3: psychological operation. But it doesn't really square with that either.
Speaker 3: And so once you eliminate these other possibilities, the only
Speaker 3: other one is what could be called paranormal. You could
Speaker 3: call it otherworldly. Most people go, oh, well, it's aliens then,
Speaker 3: and it's like, well, it is, but it isn't. It's
Speaker 3: what might be most accurately described as introp worldly. In
Speaker 3: other words, they aren't necessarily coming across space to put
Speaker 3: up these aerial displays just after sunset. They could be
Speaker 3: entities that already live here or are already here and
Speaker 3: stead form but are staying out of sight.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 2: Bogo will be right back after these messages. Now, are
Speaker 2: you talking like quote unquote interdimensional whatever that means, or well.
Speaker 3: Can guess whatever that means. But you know the problem is,
Speaker 3: we don't really have the right word, and alien is
Speaker 3: definitely not it. But on the other hand, that's definitely
Speaker 3: what it is. It is not advanced military, it's not
Speaker 3: foreign adversary, it's it's not private hobbyists. It's it's probably
Speaker 3: not SYOP because it has too many layers. Syops come
Speaker 3: and they go as soon as they're over with. And
Speaker 3: if there was a SYOP, it would be for a
Speaker 3: reason like they want to change the laws and restrict
Speaker 3: drone use and things like that. But here's the problem.
Speaker 3: The things that are being observed are ultra sophisticated. They're silent,
Speaker 3: they of a detection and encounter, They do not emit radioaids.
Speaker 3: Their ultra long flight times and their flight characteristics defy
Speaker 3: you know, conventional physics, so that leaves us with alien,
Speaker 3: even though that's the wrong word. If they come from
Speaker 3: within the Earth or are somehow manifested by the Earth itself,
Speaker 3: which is this guy a hypothesis, then that's where I
Speaker 3: think you have to find a new word, which could
Speaker 3: be something like human antecedents, intra earthly entities, not inter
Speaker 3: as in from another Earth, but from somewhere within this Earth,
Speaker 3: or intra dimensional intra terrestrial. In other words, it's my
Speaker 3: view that they're emanating from the Earth. And one of
Speaker 3: the reasons for this is because the objects when they
Speaker 3: are photographs, do not look like outer space craft, you know,
Speaker 3: the classic flying saucers for the most part. But but
Speaker 3: Moneymaker is right that you have these plasmoids as he's
Speaker 3: calling them, and and that is a physics thing. But
Speaker 3: the problem is when you approach these plasmoids, then they evade,
Speaker 3: they shut off, they and in some cases even disable
Speaker 3: the you know, sort of attacking drone that the cops
Speaker 3: or military is putting up there to challenge them.
Speaker 2: So as far as like where they're seen, I mean,
Speaker 2: they're they're all over the place. Now, My wife has
Speaker 2: been interested, Melissa has been interested in this for a while.
Speaker 2: She's been following it. They're not only in New Jersey.
Speaker 2: There's been stuff seen in Oregon, in various places all
Speaker 2: throughout the country.
Speaker 3: Ohio, and it's not new. There is really not much
Speaker 3: difference between what's going on now and what they were
Speaker 3: calling the Phoenix lights almost a decade ago. And they've
Speaker 3: been manifesting in Seattle in similar ways over the summer.
Speaker 3: But you know, of course, my joke is that they're
Speaker 3: doing this in a more conspicuous way over in New
Speaker 3: York and New Jersey in places like that because it's Christmas,
Speaker 3: and then we respond by scrambling fighters. Well, that's not
Speaker 3: exactly the Christmas spirit, folks.
Speaker 2: So the red and green lights have nothing to do
Speaker 2: with the fa regulations. They have more to do with
Speaker 2: the Christmas season.
Speaker 3: Another various two possibility, cliff. But the point is, but
Speaker 3: whatever they're doing, they're advertising their presence. It is almost
Speaker 3: a bit of humor that they're using FAA regulated lighting
Speaker 3: where the red is on the right and the green
Speaker 3: is on the left wing. But that's not happening all
Speaker 3: the time. Like I say, when other drones approach them,
Speaker 3: they go blank. They're they're not emitting any noise. They're
Speaker 3: not admitting they're not emitting radio waves, and operational drones
Speaker 3: generally admit radia radio waves that are used to identify
Speaker 3: them as drones and so on and so forth, so
Speaker 3: you know, they're they're definitely outside of conventional human constructs.
Speaker 3: So that brings us to Planet Strange. And you know,
Speaker 3: in the book, I did not in any way predict
Speaker 3: this phenomenon, but I did sort of explain it, and
Speaker 3: that is that it emanates from the Earth. They don't
Speaker 3: have to be coming from you know, far off regions
Speaker 3: of the galaxy or beyond. They did arrive in some
Speaker 3: form thousands of years ago and establish themselves here on
Speaker 3: planet Earth, but more recently, as within their recorded history,
Speaker 3: they decided to not manifest and let humanity have the
Speaker 3: Earth's surface, but they probably still inhabit the planet in
Speaker 3: some form. In other words, there appears to be this
Speaker 3: you know, other realm subterranean, which in a way makes
Speaker 3: them interdimensional because you know, subterranean is another dimension. We
Speaker 3: sort of inhabit the surface dimension. You know, we're more
Speaker 3: or less two dimensional. We go up and down a
Speaker 3: little bit, but not a lot. But if you go
Speaker 3: down deep in the Earth. Then you could be arguably
Speaker 3: in another dimension, but still come from the Earth. And
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, so, how would I even know
Speaker 3: or suggest such a thing? And unfortunately the answer ends
Speaker 3: up being a very book length question. And that's the
Speaker 3: gist of Shady Neighbors. I mean, not Shay Neighbors, sorry,
Speaker 3: but Planets Strange. You got to read the book. And
Speaker 3: there are several lines of evidence that I present in
Speaker 3: Planet Strange that suggest the existence of a subterranean realm.
Speaker 3: And the question then becomes, well, why are they manifesting now?
Speaker 3: And I think my answer is, well, it's time. We
Speaker 3: are finally progressing, and there's enough people like out there
Speaker 3: who are really just doing everything they can to bring
Speaker 3: the world into acceptance of this other set of beings,
Speaker 3: these intra earthly beings or however you want to call them.
Speaker 3: It's time.
Speaker 2: Even though this is a very widespread phenomenon, these things
Speaker 2: have been seen in very unusual places like what is
Speaker 2: it the Picatinny Arsenal, I think in the New Jersey
Speaker 2: area Trump's golf course, for example. Is it just is
Speaker 2: are they choosing? In your opinion? Of course? Do you
Speaker 2: do you think they're choosing these locations for certain reasons,
Speaker 2: or is it just so widespread that, of course they
Speaker 2: would eventually be over there too, because they're everywhere.
Speaker 3: And the answer is yes, both of them. And but
Speaker 3: you know, what a lot of peoples have observed is
Speaker 3: that they come in off the ocean in the evening
Speaker 3: as the sun is setting. And there was even one
Speaker 3: YouTuber who went out in a boat, spent a lot
Speaker 3: of money and wanted to see them maybe emanating from
Speaker 3: the water, which would not surprise me at all. But
Speaker 3: the curious thing is that as this one YouTuber was
Speaker 3: going out off the coast of Cape May, New Jersey,
Speaker 3: here comes the groans or you know, we call them own.
Speaker 3: But again they're the same as the phoenix lights. We
Speaker 3: just use this word drone now. And they came in
Speaker 3: from the ocean and over the land. But he stayed
Speaker 3: out there for a number of hours. They never went back.
Speaker 3: So where they're going is of course not completely explained
Speaker 3: or understood, but there are examples that are right there
Speaker 3: on YouTube. Are the things coming out of the water
Speaker 3: and going into the water, and so it does seem
Speaker 3: like they are whatever they call the kind of uap,
Speaker 3: you know, unexplained aerial phenomenon that is also a trans
Speaker 3: medium or others can go from water to land. But
Speaker 3: there are examples of this, which again to me, he
Speaker 3: suggests that they're emanating from within the planet, but they
Speaker 3: probably have several ways of coming and going. Now, remember
Speaker 3: long our last podcast, you you were a little bit
Speaker 3: disappointed that this new book Planet Strange didn't have more
Speaker 3: to do with Bigfoot, and I said, look.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, I was. I was thankful it didn't
Speaker 2: have a lot more than a lot to do a
Speaker 2: Bigfoot tom My quip.
Speaker 3: My reply was, well, I did three books. If that's
Speaker 3: not enough to cover Bigfoot, and then maybe I just
Speaker 3: need to switch gears. Well. Interesting. My good friend Tish
Speaker 3: Piquette even a few years ago, I said, I don't know, Tish,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of done with this book thing. And she said, oh, no,
Speaker 3: you're going to do a fourth book. And you know
Speaker 3: she's a sensitive of course, and oddly enough she was correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very insensitive, I've been told. So it works out. Well,
Speaker 2: I didn't know it was coming.
Speaker 3: I'm both well. Anyway, So the funny thing is that
Speaker 3: it really does cycle back to Bigfoot, because if the
Speaker 3: the beings that a generating this phenomenon reside within the Earth,
Speaker 3: then they must be aware of the Sasquatch. Because I
Speaker 3: also advance the idea that the Sasquatch phenomenon also must
Speaker 3: emanate from planet Earth, because there would be a need
Speaker 3: for privacy and identity that that just doesn't seem to
Speaker 3: be available to them on the surface of the Earth.
Speaker 3: So I think in the in the in order to
Speaker 3: answer the Sasquatch phenomenon mysteries, we have to include other
Speaker 3: sources and other subjects of information, widen our search. And
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden it appears that well, just
Speaker 3: like these drones or whatever they are, they're staying hidden there.
Speaker 3: They don't necessarily want to historically meet us, but suddenly
Speaker 3: things have changed. And if that's true, then it's because
Speaker 3: perhaps hopefully humanity is becoming more sophisticated, mature, and you know, aware.
Speaker 2: Kind of like the hundredth monkey sort of thing, like
Speaker 2: you think we're we're we're coming to the tipping point.
Speaker 3: And if that's true, then that's great news for those
Speaker 3: of us who follow the Sasquatch phenomenon, because that provides
Speaker 3: hope that they too might also choose to manifest sometime
Speaker 3: in the fairly near future. Maybe not this week or next,
Speaker 3: but you know, everything seems to go at its own rate.
Speaker 3: But by next summer, I think you're going to be
Speaker 3: seeing en uptick in the sasquatch business as well. And
Speaker 3: that would, you know, sort of follow with this idea
Speaker 3: that we're becoming more aware and worthy of entering this
Speaker 3: I don't know, call it a galactic community if you want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I might want to call it that.
Speaker 3: When I finished Planet Schange, there were several phenomenon that
Speaker 3: all have to be considered in order to understand this,
Speaker 3: And that's why I say it's book length material. There
Speaker 3: is the course of the UFO phenomenon, but then there's
Speaker 3: this mound phenomenon that manifests worldwide. The pyramids are an
Speaker 3: extremely peculiar thing. Egyptians did not build those. They were
Speaker 3: never tombs. They were built for something else by entities
Speaker 3: that could move enormous amounts of material. Cattle mutilations totally
Speaker 3: defied logic, but also factor in in terms of but
Speaker 3: for reasons that are really difficult to explain in one
Speaker 3: or two sentences. Then there's Bierma triangles, not burm. You
Speaker 3: to triangle. But Burm you to triangles that manifest worldwide
Speaker 3: and what those suggest about things that come and go
Speaker 3: from either other dimensions or maybe just subterranean And even
Speaker 3: scripture when you look at the historical record, not just
Speaker 3: the Hebrew Bible, but other similar documents, Sumerian and so forth,
Speaker 3: they talk about these exact kinds of things, and then
Speaker 3: there's some of them more out there, things like the
Speaker 3: moon itself has got some peculiarities. But then you can't
Speaker 3: leave Sasquatch out of it. They emanate from the Earth,
Speaker 3: and so the Sasquatch is another manifestation of this emergence
Speaker 3: of entities from within the earth. But it's just one
Speaker 3: that I've talked about so much that I kind of
Speaker 3: felt like I should maybe give it a back burner
Speaker 3: on this book.
Speaker 2: Well, you have always been kind of one of the
Speaker 2: people leading the charge for like the grand unification theory
Speaker 2: of paranormal you know, like like the gut is a
Speaker 2: physics thing where they're trying to unite Einsteiny and relativity
Speaker 2: with quantum physics, and then you know that they have
Speaker 2: one equation, so to speak. Maybe maybe that's just a
Speaker 2: metaphor though, but one one equation to explain more or
Speaker 2: less everything.
Speaker 3: Yes, wouldn't it wouldn't it be nice if we could
Speaker 3: stitch some of these seemingly separate things together. But I
Speaker 3: do feel like when you're not getting the answers you want,
Speaker 3: you have to widen the search. You have to consider
Speaker 3: other things that you may be excluding for reasons that
Speaker 3: are more have to do with bias and prejudice. Then,
Speaker 3: and and you know, it's kind of like one of
Speaker 3: those Sherlock Holmes quotes, if if you eliminate the possibilities,
Speaker 3: then whatever remains, no matter how impossible, has to be
Speaker 3: the truth.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, Tom, I've known you for a
Speaker 2: long time, and you've always always give me amazing things
Speaker 2: to think about. Sometimes you give me things to lay
Speaker 2: awake at night and worry about, But but you always
Speaker 2: give me a candy for my brain. Things that. And
Speaker 2: if anybody else out there, of course listening right now,
Speaker 2: is intrigued by any of this, I would say Tom's
Speaker 2: book Planet Strange is the best jumping off point you
Speaker 2: can get. It's it's it's like watching all of the
Speaker 2: I've said it on our main podcast when when you
Speaker 2: were on it's like watching all. It's like it's like
Speaker 2: binge watching all of the in search of all at once.
Speaker 2: And it is so much fun to read. And I'm
Speaker 2: so glad that you're involved in this, and and and
Speaker 2: also thank you very much for coming on and being
Speaker 2: our senior weird beyond correspondence, you are more than welcome
Speaker 2: to come back whenever you have something to say about
Speaker 2: anything that catches your eye or ear.
Speaker 3: All right, well, I'll look forward to uh talking with
Speaker 3: you in the future. But everyone has their homework. You
Speaker 3: have to read a book. It would be nice if
Speaker 3: you could watch YouTube videos and get it, but sometimes
Speaker 3: you just have to read the book.
Speaker 2: And you might as well read Tom's. It's well written,
Speaker 2: it's a lot of fun. I read it. Everybody knows
Speaker 2: that I'm like a stick in the mud, you know,
Speaker 2: aper kind of guy. But I read it and I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed it, and I think that's saying something. You
Speaker 2: buy it, you buy it on Amazon, I of course
Speaker 2: prefer you buy it from the North American Bigfoot Center
Speaker 2: on our online store. Matt Prue will put the links
Speaker 2: in the notes down there.
Speaker 3: I'll get some copies out to you.
Speaker 2: Fantastic, all right, So there you have it from our
Speaker 2: senior Beyond correspondent Tom Powell. Thank you Tom very much
Speaker 2: for coming on and uh I've never said this before.
Speaker 2: Back to you, Cliff and Bobo. Okay, thanks for that.
Speaker 2: Cliff really appreciate you and Powell. I appreciate Palell too.
Speaker 2: But Christmas Strones, there's your answer for you, Christmas Strones.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's why it's died down by now, because we
Speaker 2: are well into the first week of January at this point,
Speaker 2: right at the end of the So maybe that's why
Speaker 2: it's died down because the calladays are over pretty much.
Speaker 1: Here for you. Okay, Well, that's as out a Bigfoot
Speaker 1: and Beyond with Cliff and Buba. Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. And for our member section, we're
Speaker 1: going to go over another article that the most received
Speaker 1: article we've got was about the two gentlemen that unfortunately
Speaker 1: passed away up in Excimnia County out there Mount Hoit area,
Speaker 1: going out and getting trapped in the elements and passing away.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about cold weather preparation and just
Speaker 1: preparation in general for going out in the woods with squatching.
Speaker 1: So we'll be joining our patreon family over there, So
Speaker 1: thank you for listening and until next week, keep it Squatchy.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
Speaker 2: us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
Speaker 2: at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Speaker 2: Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,
Speaker 2: and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Speaker 2: Bigfoot and Beyond.