WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:02.759 Oh hey, it's still that throwback picture from when you 2 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:05.639 wore baggy jeans and shell necklaces. Ali ward back with 3 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:10.039 part two of a pop cultural and psychological episode. Y'all 4 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:12.039 love the start of last week, so we're going to 5 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:14.759 finish it off with more of your great questions, shall we? 6 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:16.719 We shall? Okay, So if you have not listened to 7 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:19.359 last week, you want to hop over to part one. First, 8 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:23.480 you'll hear the definition of anthropology from an actual living 9 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:30.359 breeding researcher whose Twitter bio reads anthropologist, entertainment futurist, YouTube enthusiast, 10 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:33.439 and defender of teen girl taste. So in part one, 11 00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:38.000 we covered sports and religion and k pop goblins for 12 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:41.560 good and the practice of Disney bounding, which I completely 13 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:46.320 failed to ever define. It's subtly dressing like Disney characters 14 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:48.159 in the theme parks in a way that only other 15 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.840 Disney fanatics might catch. That's Disney bounding. We talked about 16 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:55.439 fan fiction and Frasier and how complex and kind of 17 00:00:55.479 --> 00:00:58.359 evil algorithms tell us what to like. We talk about 18 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:01.439 free range children, what to do if your favorite author 19 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:04.560 turns out to be problematic, and more so. That is 20 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:07.640 part one in this episode. We can hear about shipping, 21 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:11.920 which is short for relationshipping, I suppose, or dreaming up 22 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:16.319 unions that exist only in your horny day dreams, and 23 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:20.719 fans versus stands stands being kind of the creepy variety, 24 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:25.319 and the line between cults and fandoms, and the all 25 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:28.319 important question of if you want to build an empire 26 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:31.840 and fandom over which you preside, how do you become 27 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:34.719 Internet famous? Do you want to be Internet famous? All 28 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:37.000 that and more. A quick thanks first to all the 29 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:39.680 listeners of Ologies. I could not do these interviews or 30 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:43.200 make the show without the wonderfully weird and insightful questions 31 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:45.680 from patrons. You can give a dollar or more a 32 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:48.480 month to support the show at patroon dot com slash Ologies, 33 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:50.920 as well as all the folks who just spread the 34 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:54.719 word and the links and leave reviews. I creep on 35 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:56.879 you and I read every single one, and this week 36 00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:59.719 thank you to Tricia S and also Bronze Kraken, a 37 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:03.560 PD who wrote, dearest father, I hope this letter finds 38 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:06.319 you well. I have verily enjoyed your audio recordings. I 39 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:08.879 listened to each new one with gusto and look forward 40 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:12.599 to the next. Your Internet child PD see proof, So 41 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.800 leave one. Okay, everyone else who left one? I read 42 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:17.759 it for sure, and your weird internet uncle dad hurts 43 00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:20.360 you very much and is earnestly so happy you're here. Okay, 44 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:24.599 let's shove off into part two of panthropology with behavioral 45 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:30.520 researcher and legit professional on her business card. Unironically, panthropologist 46 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:52.560 Meredith Levine. I'm going to make us go through Patreon 47 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:54.199 questions because there are questions I want to ask you 48 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:56.319 that patrons asked, and so I'm going to ask it. 49 00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:58.879 There are questions through my mouth. Is that cool? 50 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:00.879 Great? Let's do it. 51 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.599 Okay. This one was at the top of my tongue 52 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:08.879 and it was asked by patrons. Anna Thompson, El McCall, 53 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:13.879 Matt Sicado Island, Helly, Bonnie Tamara Man, Carrie Caitlin Powell, 54 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:18.840 Anya Levi, Burke, Hope, Lexi Reads, Rachel Weiss, Lee, Catherine Earhart, 55 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.759 and John McClain all kind of wanted to know about 56 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:27.280 obsessive fandom. Bonnie asked what's the line between being a 57 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:31.280 healthy fan of something and obsession? And Tamara wants to 58 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:33.520 know when does fandom cross the line to inappropriate and 59 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.159 healthy and then also a stan. When does a fan 60 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:37.680 become a stan? Good question? 61 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:45.120 So let's start with obsessive Okay, Fandom has historically been pathologized, Okay, 62 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:52.240 in a negative way. Yeah, and fans generally aren't bat all. 63 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:58.639 They are generally not malicious. And when does it become unhealthy? 64 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:01.120 It becomes on health health when you neglect all of 65 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:03.159 the things in your life that actually lead to a 66 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:06.319 healthy life, like eating and sleeping and like going to 67 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.400 work and or school. But like, who's to say what 68 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:11.840 a good use of time is, especially in an age 69 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.479 where one can be a professional fan, if like that's 70 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:16.279 the thing you want to do. When does it become 71 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:21.279 unhealthy when your life and relationships suffer as a result. Right, 72 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:24.759 plenty of people have found their life partners and like 73 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:28.639 gotten married and stuff through fandom, And that's a thing 74 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:31.160 that happens now. And by fandom, I mean like pop 75 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:34.839 culture fandom, fandom with like a capital F. So that's 76 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:38.439 not necessarily unhealthy. What is unhealthy is when you have 77 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:41.319 the rogue person. And this happens a lot in like 78 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:45.439 influencer culture and those kinds of fandoms, because this particular 79 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:48.279 type of object of fandom is themselves for a living 80 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:52.680 where I'm friends with a bunch of creators as a 81 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:56.160 offshoot of my life, and oftentimes they get the question 82 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:58.319 of like, what's the weirdest thing a fan has ever done? Yeah, 83 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:01.959 or what's like the scariest or creepiest or whatever. And 84 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:05.199 that is when it gets to be scary and creepy 85 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:07.800 and bad. Is in those in person interactions for the 86 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:13.959 most part of like screaming at someone in target, or 87 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:17.079 like going and waiting outside of their house. Anything that 88 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:20.360 is a breach of personal privacy for the object of 89 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:26.560 fandom is when it gets to be bad, because then 90 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.079 it's like actively dehumanizing to those people who are objects 91 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:30.519 of fandom. 92 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.680 But wouldn't some people argue that they have taken themselves 93 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:40.800 out of being a human and been striving for something 94 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:44.839 like superhuman where they are getting more than a normal 95 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:49.920 human's share of attention or wealth or privilege. So I mean, 96 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:52.680 and I'm saying this as someone who also knows a 97 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:57.319 lot of creators is a creator. Is there anything where 98 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:01.360 there's been a consensus that you have surrendered your privacy 99 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:03.040 by selling it? 100 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:08.399 No, In my opinion, everyone is entitled to their privacy 101 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:10.920 and as much of it as they want cool. That 102 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:15.720 being said, it's also important for objects of fandom to 103 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:18.879 understand that and be a little bit more careful with 104 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:21.000 their personal information. In the event that you are an 105 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:23.160 object of fandom or want to be an object of fandom, 106 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:26.199 Step one is cultivate an audience. But in that process, 107 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:31.120 people with kids have to make the decision how much 108 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:33.279 of their kids' lives are part of their brands. And 109 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:35.680 that's a personal decision, especially if their kids are too 110 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:40.120 young to consent to that. And there are choices that 111 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:41.959 everyone has to make about, like how much of their 112 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:45.600 personal lives they want to show, and celebrities deal with 113 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.959 this also, it's a little bit less of an issue 114 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:52.240 when you're a non human entity with fans. 115 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:56.879 I'm hoping she means non human entity like Gritty, the flupy, grumpy, 116 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:00.439 flaming orange figurehead of the Philadelphia Flyers, who has been 117 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:03.759 described by newspapers as quote an acid trip of a 118 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:09.120 mascot and a ghastly empty eyed muppet, so neither human 119 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.279 nor beast. Gritty was born in twenty eighteen out of 120 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.920 the design prompt something you'd high five but not hug 121 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:18.720 and sure I did go down a rabbit hole looking 122 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:21.759 at pictures of gritty tattoos, such as one bearing the 123 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:23.319 words chaos reigns. 124 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.720 But even still, like showing up to a place of 125 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.480 home or work is when it gets to be obsessive 126 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:37.519 and bad, which is not the same thing as toxic fandom. 127 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:42.680 Yeah, can we talk about toxic fandoms? Because patrons Mike Manakowski, 128 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:48.360 Samantha Ryan Jesse, Dragon, Anna Thompson, Justin McCormick, and COLLEENI Bee. 129 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:51.519 Also Will Johnston wanted to know. Will Johnson asked, what, 130 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:55.040 in your opinion, is the most toxic fandom, and also 131 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.279 what's the best fandom? And why is it Terry Pratchett's 132 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:01.560 Disco World or disc World. I thought it's a Disco World, 133 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:03.319 and I was like, that sounds tight. But I guess 134 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.120 Discworld maybe that's Frisbee. I don't know. I earnestly thought 135 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:10.800 that Discworld was similar to Terry Bradshaw's NFL video game, 136 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:13.959 but with Ultimate Frisbee, and then I realized that it's 137 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:18.360 actually John Madden's NFL game anyway. Discworld is a series 138 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:21.519 of novels set in a flat world perched on the 139 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:24.519 back of four giant elephants. Perched on Giant Turtle. It 140 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.120 was written not by NFL coach Terry Bradshaw, but by 141 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:32.080 literary figure Sir Terry Pratchett. My point is that discworld 142 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:35.200 fandom has nothing to do with sports or disco pantsuits. 143 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.320 I would totally go to disco World too, dude, I 144 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:47.159 would love it there. So what is the most toxic fandom? 145 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:50.320 Yeah, Like what is toxic fandom? Like when does it 146 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:53.559 become shitty? Because I'm trying to think of Like all 147 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:55.279 I can think about are like people who are out 148 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:58.039 in thirty degree whether with no shirt on, in their 149 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:00.879 body painted sports colors. And I'm sure that that is 150 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:03.080 like not even toxic compared to what is out there. 151 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:05.279 That's just uncomfortable fandoms. 152 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:09.440 So like, generally, when people refer to toxic fandoms, they 153 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:16.080 refer to like intra fandom fighting with ad hominem attacks 154 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.240 and actively like shutting other people down and yucking their 155 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:23.320 yums and generally being like know it all is what 156 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:28.840 blankets gatekeepers, and like shunning and shaming people who like 157 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:34.919 the same things. So when when those kinds of tools 158 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:38.440 get used within a fandom, or like when actions are 159 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:42.799 taken against marginalized identities or those are not respected. Oftentimes, 160 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.919 that is another thing that's referenced as a toxic fandom. 161 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:48.279 I'm all for sports fans who go shirtless in the 162 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.960 middle of winter to paint their bodies like you do 163 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:53.240 you your body whatever. I'm not going to tell you 164 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:56.120 to put on a sweater, but pink. Shame someone for 165 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:58.200 their fan fiction, which also came up a lot, and 166 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.159 that's kind of bad, or like telling someone that they 167 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:04.639 don't belong or that they're not fan enough. Everyone starts 168 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:08.159 as a beginner, and just because someone doesn't have the 169 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:11.960 same fandom origin story as someone else doesn't necessarily make 170 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.240 them less of a fan or less of a worthy fan. 171 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:20.000 So do other fans call newbies posers? That's a little toxic. Now. Confession, 172 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:23.120 I have actually never seen Rocky Horror Picture Show Live 173 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:26.720 because I heard that they write a V for virgin 174 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:30.159 on your forehead if you've never been like with lipstick, 175 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.440 And I think that's good natured and not toxic. But 176 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:36.840 I was so afraid of getting a constellation of pimples 177 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:40.480 in a V on my forehead on my bad teen skin, 178 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:43.639 so I chickened out at every opportunity to attend a 179 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:48.720 Midnight fish Netted screening. But yes, fandoms in which people genuinely, 180 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.000 not good naturedly harass each other, those are the bad ones. 181 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:55.360 Sometimes it happens also when there are ship wars that happen, 182 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:59.039 and like there are two dominant ships that come to 183 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:01.720 the forefront of the fandom and they actively like don't 184 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:04.039 believe and are against each other, which is its whole 185 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:07.120 shipping culture as its whole other it's part of fandom 186 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.480 with Capital F. But it's this whole other thing. And 187 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:11.799 if you want to know a lot more about fan 188 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.360 fiction and shipping culture and that kind of fandom, fandom 189 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.159 with Capital F, I highly recommend the fans Planning podcast 190 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.240 with Flourish Clink and Elizabeth Minkle. Great podcast if you're 191 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:23.159 interested in Capital F fandom. 192 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.559 Well you know, dove tailing off of that. Listeners Diane 193 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:32.399 bout Taren Fernatz, Kelly Seaman, and Jamie Kishimoto. Jamide a 194 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:35.279 great question and asked, have you done any studies on 195 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:38.519 the phenomenon of queer baiting and how it creates die 196 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:42.679 hard fandoms of shippers but never delivers a happy queer ending. 197 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:46.679 I would say never, say never. The media landscape is shifting, 198 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:51.440 and we have an example of that recently. But my 199 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:54.720 guess is there's a specific ip behind this, and my 200 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:56.639 hunch is that it might be teen Wolf. 201 00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:59.919 Okay, so I look this up, and the MTV series 202 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.559 Teen Wolf debuted in twenty eleven, and I'm going to 203 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:05.360 quote an article from The Advocate to sum up the 204 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:09.399 beef with the beefy but ultimately empty romance arcs. So 205 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.440 the Advocate said, the continued teases that a character might 206 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:15.480 be bisexual with no payoff, the same sex romances that 207 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.639 end as quickly as they begin, the disappearance of gay 208 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.639 characters without explanation, and the absence of any well developed 209 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.360 LGBT character four seasons into a show that appeared to 210 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.799 bank heavily on its queer appeal early on have left 211 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.720 vocal fans howling. End quote. And though its final season 212 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.759 was in twenty seventeen, many moons ago history remembers Teen 213 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:39.840 Wolf is kind of a hairy situation. 214 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:45.879 Ooh, And I personally think that queer baiting is exploitative, 215 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.360 as are a lot of the tropes that get used, 216 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.759 like barrier gaze and fridging and that sort of thing 217 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.240 that shows historically have used and I think that as 218 00:12:54.399 --> 00:13:00.360 queer voices become more prominent in writer's rooms and in 219 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:02.600 in the production process, I think that will happen less 220 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:06.200 and less, especially since fans also can take collective action 221 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:11.759 and do grassroots like awareness of what these issues are 222 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:16.559 and why it's harmful. Having very coded behavior is also 223 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.559 very typically Hollywood and stems from like a very long 224 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:25.320 history of what was acceptable on in film and television 225 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:27.759 by those standards, and like Hayes code stuff, what it 226 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.720 means to get like a rating for PG thirteen versus. 227 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.440 Are Hayes codes side note I looked it up. Were 228 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:37.360 essentially written in the late nineteen twenties via Jesuit priest 229 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.159 and a church elder as a sort of code of 230 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:44.159 standards for the motion picture industry, and it set precedents 231 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:49.480 forbidding all kinds of fun stuff such as nudity, suggestive dancing, 232 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:57.080 discussions of sexual perversity, any ridicule of religion, any interracial relationships, 233 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:01.919 lustful kissing, and any scenes of passion. Obviously, this was 234 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:05.919 not friendly to any queer depictions or were wolf makeouts, 235 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:06.639 to say the least. 236 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:13.080 There's a lot of institutionalized things to unpack around clearbaiting 237 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:17.879 because to attribute it to a writer's room isn't entirely 238 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:21.279 the whole story, and to attribute to a marketing team 239 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.279 isn't entirely the whole story. In my opinion, it's unfortunate, 240 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:27.440 but also tends to draw out people who are like 241 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:30.960 minded and want to go into that level of imagining. 242 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:36.120 I don't love it, but also the effects of it 243 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:40.759 have done community building things. So a lot of the 244 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:47.440 times why queer ships exist is because there aren't as 245 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:52.519 many well rounded characters to imagine and re imagine and 246 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:57.480 reshape that are women and non binary and on the 247 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:02.480 other gender spectrum, m Hollywood still incredibly male dominated. Yeah, 248 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:06.039 when it comes to playing around with characters, often the 249 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:06.919 best ones are guys. 250 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.399 Hmmm, that's interesting. That's such a good point. So because 251 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:14.799 movies and TV and comic books seem to be well 252 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:18.519 stocked on manned people in general, those lead characters are 253 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.120 fleshed out with more complexity, and so they get shipped 254 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:25.879 more often in fan fantasies, because who wants to ship 255 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:28.360 a boring character. It's like trying to make a sexy 256 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:31.840 sandwich with one soggy bread slice. No, thank you, give 257 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.440 me two nutty rich tangy slices, I don't care what 258 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.639 gender they are. Now on the topic of that, and 259 00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:42.039 kind of off of that, listener Sylvia Shriff had a question. 260 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:45.720 They wrote, people talk about fangirling or fan boying over 261 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.639 a person, what is the gender neutral term for this behavior? 262 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.000 It isn't fanning signed a gender person who definitely does 263 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:53.799 this thing, but it's neither a girl nor a boy. 264 00:15:54.639 --> 00:16:01.279 So I if I have to remove gender from it, 265 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:04.240 I would say fanning out as a phrase, Okay, I'm 266 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:05.240 fanning out. 267 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:10.840 But fangirling and fanboying often like have implied different sets 268 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:14.960 of behaviors mm okay, regardless of gender, but having to 269 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:19.720 do with typically masculine and typically feminine traits based on 270 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.960 their portrayals in the media. So like, when I hear 271 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:27.159 fan girling, I hear a sound. Yes, oh, of course, 272 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.679 of course, And I'm sure everyone hears this sound of 273 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:35.080 like it's a squee s q u e e, and 274 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:40.440 it's a sound. And I hear like beatlemania and crying 275 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:42.919 and fainting, and a lot of it is associated with 276 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:48.840 proximity to object of fandom, yes, yes, versus like being 277 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:54.919 a fanboy. I ascribe to regardless of gender, slightly more 278 00:16:54.919 --> 00:17:00.679 pedantic behavior and the behavior of like nerd jocking, yeah, fanning, 279 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:04.839 which is quizzing people and having all the information. And 280 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:09.000 there's a very outdated model about uh affirmational and transformational 281 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:11.119 fandom that was like an academic paper from like I 282 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.680 think maybe the late nineties, possibly the early two thousands 283 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:18.920 mm hm, about ways that fandom capital ath express themselves 284 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:24.359 and some is in transformation and some is in completionism 285 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.400 of like, are you reimagining and playing with the work 286 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.279 the work is a springboard for one's own imagination or 287 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:34.599 is it more encyclopedic and religious, where like it's about 288 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.319 knowing everything and like being an expert in the thing. 289 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.359 So transformational fandom is like, hey, thanks for making this 290 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.839 world these characters. As fans, it's now ours to run 291 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.000 with and make more elaborate and weirder if we want to. 292 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.599 But affirmational fandom is like, this is what the creator intended, 293 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:57.480 and we may only observe and fawn over and memorize 294 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.839 this particular world and character. Also, if you like video games, 295 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.640 name all the video games. 296 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.920 And so these conflicting models of like what people think 297 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:13.039 of as fans can often inhibit the experience of being one. 298 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:16.119 Because one of the other questions that gets asked a 299 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.240 lot is like, do you have to be part of 300 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:20.559 a community to be a fan, And the answer is no. 301 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.559 You can be a fan all on your own and 302 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.480 like do whatever it is that you do and not 303 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:28.440 interact with a soul around it and still be a 304 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:33.599 good fan, because being a fan is something that one 305 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.680 imagines themselves to be, not like a set of behaviors. 306 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.920 And but we would call that in general fanning out, 307 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:43.759 fanning out, like fanning out if there's. 308 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:48.160 A gender neutral term for having an overwhelming moment of 309 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:51.640 excitement as a result of something having to do with 310 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:58.240 the object of fandom that makes oneself sensorially overloaded or 311 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:02.839 sensorally like frozen. Uh huh, I would call it fanning out. 312 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:05.160 I love it. I love it. And on the topic 313 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.720 of forging ahead with neologisms, which is a word that 314 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:12.839 I can never say, neologism, neologism, new works only read 315 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:18.880 it neologism. Anna Thompson and Forrest Dot's had questions, do 316 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:23.079 people typically connect more with podcasts than other types of 317 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.759 media because listening is more intimate. 318 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.119 Oh, thank you for your podcast voice. I love this 319 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:34.160 ASMR moment. There are a lot of things that have 320 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.920 to do with connecting with podcast hosts. Part of it 321 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.240 has to do with being in someone's ears and how 322 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.039 intimate actually talking is, especially in the age of like 323 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:48.000 visuals and texting. Part of it has to do with 324 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:51.720 how much time podcasters spend in the ears of their fans. 325 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:54.400 It's somewhere between twenty minutes and an hour or two 326 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:57.079 a week, depending on what kind of podcast you're listening to, 327 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:00.480 and it's like every week. So this is a friend, 328 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.160 this is a familiar voice. It's the kind of experience 329 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:09.319 you put on to be a little less alone whilst 330 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:12.839 usually whilst doing something else like driving or dishes or 331 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:17.400 laundry or going on a walk. That dedicated podcast listening, 332 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:19.839 high fidelity style of this is all I'm doing. I'm 333 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.799 sitting and I'm listening to my voice or whatever. A 334 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:29.000 little less prevalent behaviorally, but there is a lot of familiarity. 335 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:34.720 Assuming that the library can sustain that. Most podcasts don't 336 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:39.519 make it over over ten episodes do really, Yeah, a 337 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:42.160 lot a lot fail in the first ninety days and 338 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.599 we'll have a season. But to be able to sustain 339 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:53.079 and develop an audience in podcast form often requires a 340 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.359 lot of dedication to the format and ability to do so, 341 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.119 and there are a lot of people who dabble. As 342 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:02.559 the podcast scene gets more robust, there are more podcasts 343 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:08.039 that can't go on indefinitely. But yes, like there is 344 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:11.319 a certain level of intimacy that is similar to vloggers 345 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:16.519 because of the amount of time that this person as 346 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:22.640 themselves spends with the audience. It's a very audience inclusive format, 347 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.559 and so yes, there is a great reason as to 348 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:31.559 why podcast hosts have fandom in a way that feels 349 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:36.359 a little bit more friendly than Jared Paddillac, which is 350 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:41.759 beautiful and a lot easier under the independent creator model 351 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:45.599 than it is to do when you are a major 352 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:47.680 studio with like a massive legal team and like all 353 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:51.880 sorts of issues like with including any idea that didn't 354 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.039 come out of the writer's Like there are a lot 355 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:59.279 of infrastructural reasons why big studios can't do what podcasters do. 356 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.319 I know, I never thought that I would that I 357 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.599 would love this medium as much as I do. It's 358 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.160 just been so rewarding, I think because of that connection 359 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:09.720 to listeners. And I have said before and even more 360 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:13.759 so now that we're in an era of not in 361 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:17.920 person weddings. But if two ologites met through the show 362 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.440 and get married, I am a universal life church minister. 363 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.880 I will be happy to zoom marry you. What wims 364 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:27.519 us to. 365 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:29.519 Day? 366 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:32.319 I feel like it is my duty. 367 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.640 You heard it here, Ologize, you heard it here? Do 368 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.640 you want dad word to marry you two? All you 369 00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.000 have to do is meet somebody and then fall in 370 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:44.839 love and then decide to get married. 371 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.119 There is an ologies Facebook singles group. I think it's 372 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:52.240 called flirty Ologites or Flirtology, one of those, but I'll 373 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:55.160 put it in a side. Please see the Facebook group 374 00:22:55.400 --> 00:23:00.880 Flirtology Singles quote a place for olagites and other nerds dueebs, 375 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:05.039 wonks and boffins to meet, mingle, flirt, chat and canoodle. 376 00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:08.440 There's nine hundred and eight hot dorks waiting for you. 377 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:13.880 So maybe maybe this is the universe aka me telling 378 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:17.000 you to maybe join text a crush about the banks 379 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.200 you just cut. We're all gonna die anyway. Just take 380 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:22.480 a chance. Also quick ad break right now. A double 381 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:25.640 donation was made to the Project for Awesome thanks to 382 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.880 sponsors of the show and links to sponsors and to 383 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:32.279 that charity are in the show notes. Okay, I think 384 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:36.759 we were talking about yes, flirtology singles. So if you're 385 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:40.319 single and you like learning things about slug dicks, let 386 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.960 me hook you up with someone. A lot of people 387 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.839 asked about the positives and benefits of certain fandoms. Bailey 388 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.079 Spurling letters from eleanor Rigby, which is a great name. 389 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.599 Cary Simo, Kathleen Sachs, Natalie Rhodes, and Kim Bonneker all 390 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.119 kind of asked, like, what's the most moving thing you've 391 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:58.079 ever seen a group of fans do for someone else? 392 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:01.000 Or what's been the most wholesome view of the world, 393 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:04.039 what kinds of experiences have really touched you. 394 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:07.880 What's having a moment this year which is a really 395 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:16.400 beautiful thing to watch is fans rallying together to be 396 00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:22.720 pro social with causes and to actively help shape the world. 397 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:27.359 Like there is this budding form of activism called fan activism. 398 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:33.160 And one of my favorite instances is the Project for Awesome, 399 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.240 which has been going on for like over ten years now, 400 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:38.799 which is a nerd Fighter, John and Hank thing, but 401 00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:42.920