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<v Speaker 1>My friends.

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<v Speaker 2>The next story of the day is the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>we went into Venezuela and arrested wanted criminal, allegedly Nicholas Maduro,

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<v Speaker 2>president of and I'm not gonna call him psident anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna call him dictator of Venezuela because there was

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<v Speaker 2>recently an election and after promising, Oh, you guys may

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<v Speaker 2>have forgotten this. But Biden, when he was in office,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the Biden foreign policy versus the Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>forne policy. When Biden was in office, he actually offered

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<v Speaker 2>to reduce the sanctions, eliminate the sanctions on Venezuela if

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<v Speaker 2>they would commit to free and fair elections, and then

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't and he released the sanctions anyway. But talking

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<v Speaker 2>about international law with us today, as my friend from

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<v Speaker 2>hot air dot com, David Strom, who wrote a scorcher

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<v Speaker 2>of a column today, the headline I think says it

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<v Speaker 2>all international law. Really you're going with that now, David,

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<v Speaker 2>I've never asked you this before. Do you get to

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<v Speaker 2>write your own headlines?

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<v Speaker 1>I do, and I'm generally quite bad at it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I love that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I actually have a colleague be's well born who

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<v Speaker 3>it makes me look like I have no stark at all,

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<v Speaker 3>and she comes up with the best headlines. In fact,

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<v Speaker 3>I've offered her several times money to write my headlines

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<v Speaker 3>and she says, no, this is my superpala.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know if you know this, but I

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<v Speaker 2>am an extremely good headline writer. So I have a

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<v Speaker 2>great deal of appreciation. One of my goals in life

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time was to be a headline writer

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<v Speaker 2>for the New York Post. And obviously I'm not doing

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<v Speaker 2>that because I don't work in that field at all,

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<v Speaker 2>but I feel it's a gift of mine if you

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<v Speaker 2>ever need any help. Let's get to the column before

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<v Speaker 2>we run out of time. Kibbittzing, you are writing about

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<v Speaker 2>one of the objections that I'm hearing from some on

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<v Speaker 2>the left, and that is this the violation of international law.

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<v Speaker 2>How absurd is that?

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<v Speaker 1>And why.

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<v Speaker 3>Well to say that it's absurd, it's just way too

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<v Speaker 3>kind to the whole idea of international lawn. All you

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<v Speaker 3>need to know about international law can be boiled down

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<v Speaker 3>to can you hear me?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I know, I'm sorry. I'm having a very bad

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<v Speaker 2>headphone problem right now. It sounds like the predator is

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<v Speaker 2>in my headphones. So David I'm going to do this

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<v Speaker 2>very quickly. It's live radio, so hang in there. Don't

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<v Speaker 2>try this at home. I'm gonna go plug my headphones

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<v Speaker 2>into another headphone jack and see if that works. So

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<v Speaker 2>just bear with me, David Vamp for a moment. Give

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<v Speaker 2>me a little bit more for like thirty more seconds

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<v Speaker 2>on how the notion that international law could even exist

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<v Speaker 2>in a country that has gotten rid of the rule

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<v Speaker 2>of law. Let's do that one.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, all you need to know about international law

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<v Speaker 3>can be boiled down to the fact that right now,

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<v Speaker 3>the president of the United Nations Security Council, which is

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<v Speaker 3>theoretically in charge of making sure that the world is

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<v Speaker 3>safe for democracy, is Somalia, and that the Somalian ambassador

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<v Speaker 3>to the United Nations actually owns a healthcare company in Ohio.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, So, I mean, you know, when somebody comes

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<v Speaker 3>out and says, well, you violated international law and the

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<v Speaker 3>United Nations is very worried about this, it's like the

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<v Speaker 3>President of the UN Security Council is a Tamali scammer. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>it's tripping off the American taxpayers. I mean, it's the

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<v Speaker 3>most ridiculous idea. I mean, laws require a sovereign if

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<v Speaker 3>you do not have a sovereign then it's pointless to

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<v Speaker 3>talk about the law.

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<v Speaker 1>And as a practical matter.

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<v Speaker 3>The law is the law of the jungle. It's the

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<v Speaker 3>state of nature among I mean to give you put

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<v Speaker 3>this in another perspective. You can read The Atlantic, the

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<v Speaker 3>oldest magazine in the United States of America, one of

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<v Speaker 3>the most prestigious magazines in the world, and they actually

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<v Speaker 3>had an article that argued that, well, now that Trump

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<v Speaker 3>has done this, Jijingping and Vladimir Putin will no longer

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<v Speaker 3>obey international law. It's like, oh, yeah, they've been they've

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<v Speaker 3>been great up to now.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, nately, David, it comes down to nations like Russia,

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<v Speaker 2>nations like you know, China, and frankly, nations like the

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<v Speaker 2>United States are going to do exactly what they know

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<v Speaker 2>they can get away with.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's the ultimate sort of revelation that we all

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<v Speaker 2>need to have a bigger conversation. The notion that there

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<v Speaker 2>is anybody that is going to, i mean, outside of

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<v Speaker 2>the Hague when you have a trial for war crimes

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<v Speaker 2>and things of that nature. That's one thing, But the

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<v Speaker 2>reality is is that the Hague is not going to

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<v Speaker 2>indict the entire country of the United States of America.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not going to happen. They're not going to indict China, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So it gets really hard to argue.

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<v Speaker 1>That there's signatories.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I didn't know that. Oh yeah, no.

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<v Speaker 3>And in fact, there is a law on the books

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<v Speaker 3>in the United States of America, passed it by bipartisan fashion,

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<v Speaker 3>that says that if any American ever gets arrested by

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<v Speaker 3>the International Criminal Court, we will invade and take them.

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<v Speaker 3>We do not recognize the International Criminal Court.

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<v Speaker 1>It would be a violation of our sovereignty.

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<v Speaker 3>And I forget what it's called it maybe something, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>it's loqually known as invade the Hague law.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you know, I don't mind the notion, like

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<v Speaker 2>I would love it if the United Nations functioned in

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<v Speaker 2>that actual fashion. But to your point, when you have

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<v Speaker 2>a Somalian scammer from one of the most corrupt countries

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<v Speaker 2>in the world sitting at the head of the Security Council,

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<v Speaker 2>it really undermines your ability to have faith in that institution.

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<v Speaker 2>And the reality is is that the United Nations would

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<v Speaker 2>only work in my mind, if it was based on

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<v Speaker 2>Western values, right.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, exactly, And you know, there is something that's kind

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<v Speaker 4>of a parallel to international law, which is agreements among

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<v Speaker 4>free nations, or even just agreements among nations, where you know,

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<v Speaker 4>we like to have rules of the road so that

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<v Speaker 4>we know what can be done in order to avoid

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<v Speaker 4>unnecessary conflicts.

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<v Speaker 1>Not necessary, they're.

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<v Speaker 3>Just times when our interests are fundamentally at odds with

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<v Speaker 3>the interests of another country, and when that happens, we

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<v Speaker 3>decide to go it alone.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's the way that it works.

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<v Speaker 3>And so you'll get these sort of illusions like when

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the Korean War or the First Iraq War,

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<v Speaker 3>where the United Nations will back something, but that's entirely

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<v Speaker 3>based upon interests and what's happening. There is a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of stuff happens behind the scenes where people come to

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<v Speaker 3>various agreements. So we have laws of the sea what

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<v Speaker 3>can be done. But that's really no different than a

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<v Speaker 3>business arrangement that people have. You and I make a contract.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, you provide this to me, I'll provide that

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<v Speaker 3>to you. That's what international law in a practice senses,

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<v Speaker 3>And when you're dealing with the fuivelent of an international scammer,

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<v Speaker 3>you deal with them on that basis. I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>do you think that Vladimir Putin was worried about international

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<v Speaker 3>law when he invaded the Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's absurd.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean there's you can we can sit here

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<v Speaker 2>all day. We could talk about smally pirates, we could

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<v Speaker 2>talk about Yemen firing on ships in the in the Mediterranean.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's there's all of these various violations of

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<v Speaker 2>international law going on on a daily basis. But as

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<v Speaker 2>long as they are perceived to be oppressed nations, even

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<v Speaker 2>if they're oppressing themselves, only we are to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to account well exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, we have.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we like to talk about law, and we

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<v Speaker 3>should like to talk about law, because that's how you

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<v Speaker 3>have the development of civilized societies, economies that work. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>you look at lawless places, they don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Work, right.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, in the real world, you know, MAO

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<v Speaker 3>said it power comes out of the barrel of a gun,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's even true in societies like ours. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>if you look, I mean, we had laws on the

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<v Speaker 3>book saying that you could not cross the American border

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<v Speaker 3>and stay here. But when uh, the federal government decided

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<v Speaker 3>to open the borders, they were violating. You know, all

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<v Speaker 3>these people were violating the law, but since no one

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<v Speaker 3>enforced it, it really meant nothing. And now that Trump

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<v Speaker 3>is enforcing the law, it means something.

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<v Speaker 1>It really is underneath it all force. And you know

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't mean that you shouldn't.

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<v Speaker 3>Strive to have something like law to constrain force. But

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<v Speaker 3>you know, anyone who doesn't pay their taxes knows that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if you push it far enough, you can

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<v Speaker 1>wind up in jail.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, one of the most heavily armed groups in

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<v Speaker 3>the entire world is the American IRS.

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<v Speaker 1>And there's a reason for that.

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<v Speaker 2>David Strom's column you can read it at hot air

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<v Speaker 2>dot com Today, I linked to it on the blog

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<v Speaker 2>I joy to see you in. Happy New Year to you, David.

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<v Speaker 1>Happy New Year to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Whoa wow, Oh geez, I don't know what just happened.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I ended a meeting accidentally.

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<v Speaker 1>No, wait, what what's up?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, we'll be right back.