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Speaker 1: Good afternoon, doctor. How are you doing today.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm mister Collins. I'm good. How are you? Absolutely

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it's fine by the way.

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Speaker 1: I go okay. You know only because one of my

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mentors in life, he was a doctor at wake Force

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University and he would say, my name is doctor Ronald,

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and so that's always want to make sure that I

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address people the right way. I'm excited to share a

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conversation with you because my first my first question or

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observation is really connected to several years of what parents

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are doing, like to their young kids, because we are

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in this age of a lot of scary movies and

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when they're taking their their preteens and even younger to

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the conjuring what is that really doing to us psychologically?

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Speaker 2: Boy, that's a big question. Well, I can tell you

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I was watching very scary movies when I was very young,

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So I might not be the best person to ask,

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but it really depends, like anything, the age appropriateness and

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to know your kid. Just as having a heavy conversation

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with your kid about something like death, you really want

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to know what your kid is capable of understanding and

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capable of tolerating, and that you could hit them sort

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of at the right appropriate level. So I think horror

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would be the same thing. You wouldn't want to needlessly

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scare scare a poor kid and traumatize them, but if

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they have an interest in sort of the darker aspects

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of the human experience, and you know, it might be

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a good foray into other deeper conversations that could actually

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get you and your kid to get closer together.

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Speaker 1: Who knows absolutely, And there's so many different styles of

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monsters these days. I swear there's more today than I've

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ever had in my entire life, because today, I mean

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it's you know, a movie that features the Joker. I

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sit there and go, okay, well, this is going to

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be a head movie. Then it's going to get inside

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my head and I'm going to believe it's real.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing. You've got the more body horror, which

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is really grizzly and gorey, and then you've got the

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suspenseful stuff that I think Alfred Hitchclock would be very

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familiar with.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that you kind of deal with.

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I chuckled like a child, is that your next in

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exploding head syndrome.

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Speaker 2: Well, there aren't too many of us that study it,

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but I'll take the compliment. Yeah, so this is a

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fascinating condition. It's not as dramatic as it sounds, or

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else my office would look really ghastly. But this is

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the experience of either going to sleep or waking up

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and you hear a massively loud noise or feel a

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sense of explosion in your head. It's been described as

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a gunshot, like a bomb going off. One person described

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it as like a wiley coyote trying to hit the road,

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run there with the piano, and not surprisingly, you wake

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up in the start. You're sweating. Some people, a small

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percentage of people actually are so scared they report forgetting

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how to breathe. Oh God, and they're left to wonder

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what just happened in my environment? How did what is

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going on? The good news is it's a relatively harmless condition,

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but it can cause people some problems. I've worked with

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folks that have it five to seven times every night,

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so they're getting startled awake multiple times every single evening.

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Not fun.

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Speaker 1: So now let me ask you a question. What is

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it about a horror film that we're so attracted to?

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Is it the element of escape or is it that

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We just love being on that adrenaline of the rush.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because the same chemicals are released when

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you're watching a horror film as if you were out

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in the woods and ran into a mare. But when

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you're in the safe confines of a theater, the experience

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shifts and it actually becomes pleasurable. One author I described

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as hijacking the fear response, and so you end up

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feeling enjoyment, and if you're with somebody, you will actually

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get additional feelings of closeness. So if any of your

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audience is up for a first daid idea, take them

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to a horror movie. You might increase your chances of

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getting a second date.

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Speaker 1: So funny you say that, because it's amazing that when

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you come out of the theater how many people gather

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and have conversations afterwards. It's almost like we're reassuring each

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other that we're going to be okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, Hollywood is great. It doesn't always

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get the specifics of the real disorders, right, that's going

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to shock your audience, I know, But it's really good

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at creating relatable characters. I mean, you can find yourself

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relating to a vampire who literally goes around killing people.

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It's just shocking if you think about it, or if

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they tap into universal domains like our fear of death.

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Are fantasies of what it would be like to be immortal.

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Speaker 1: Or to be a zombie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's less fun. I find myself it's harder

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to relate to zombies than wear wolves for me.

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Speaker 1: But aren't you in essence inside your book Monsters on

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the Couch, it gives us that opportunity to take a

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closer look as to what really could be wrong with

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this person, as to what is making almost like an

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armchair psychologist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I was just shocked. I mean I had

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some semblance of the idea, because that's why I wrote

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the book, but really going into the weeds of some

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really rare disorders, I was shocked how common some of

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them are. So I'm sure all of your audience has

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seen or heard of invasion of the body snatch. Here's

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the Stepford Wives films like that. There is a real

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world condition called Capgra syndrome from the French neurologist Joseph Capgra,

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and it consists of the delusional belief that one or

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more people in your life has been replaced with an

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identical looking duplicate, so it doesn't go the whole city

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of San Francisco as it would like invasion of the

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Buddy Centers. But you might believe that your husband and

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your wife looks exactly like your husband and wife, but

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it's not them. And even worse, you have the belief

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that the duplicate might actually have kidnapped your real loved one.

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And this is going to this was shocking, but seven

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to ten percent of patients with Alzheimer's will have this delusion,

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And if you have Lewis body dementia, you've got a

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one in five chance of having this. So it's really

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found on the silver screen, but you see when you're

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seeing it in your personal life. It's tragic because these

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people are relying on people to take care of them

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who they don't believe are the real people.

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Speaker 1: I wish and would have known that when my mother

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had dementia, because I mean, it would help me understand

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you know why it is that she was making the

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accusations that she was. But you know, because you're sitting

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there going, oh, please, let's change the subjects here.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, so she actually had that with you?

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because even with my grandmother, I mean she

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she's sitting there thinking I was totally somebody else, and

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it was like, yeah, yeah, and what you're trying to

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do is it? Then you're biting your tongue and you

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don't want to say anything because you don't you know.

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And I didn't understand at the age of seventeen what

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Alzheimer's even was for my grandmother. I just knew that

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it was like, you have no idea who I am?

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What's going on here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And it's it's just as devastating for the sufferers,

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for the family as you know, like, well, how do

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you process this person who you love and who knows

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you is acting like they don't. Sincerely, I'm sorry I

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had to go through that.

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Speaker 1: Do authors and directors do they step into a world

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of darkness to better understand horror in real time?

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Speaker 2: Some do, some don't. I really doubt that the director

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of Invasion of Body Snatches was reading about captor syndrome.

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But if we look at movies about sleep paralysis, for instance,

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so the director Rod Rodney Asher, who's done A Room

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two thirty seven and The Nightmare, which was all about

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sleep paralysis, he actually suffered from sleep paralysis himself Reasi,

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and so in his documentary he not only interviewed a

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number of people with chronic and severe sleep proalysis, but

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he had a real, firsthand, visceral understanding of how scary

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that experience it is. And for your audience, this is

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where you're going to bed or waking up, you find

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yourself completely unable to move. You're not just heavy in

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your limbs, you are completely paralyzed except for your eyes,

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and you're aware. You're not asleep. You can look around

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your room in most cases, but you're having dreams while

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you're awake a lot of the time, and eighty percent

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of the time they're very, very scary.

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Speaker 1: Is that like opening up your eyes while you're sleeping

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and you take note of the world.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're not technically sleeping, you have conscious awareness, you

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can think just like you can think right now, but

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you're paralyzed and you're seeing, you're having hallucinations, but you're

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having really dreams while you're awake. And this is probably

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the best naturalistic explanation for why otherwise healthy saying people

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believe they were legitimately abducted by aliens visited by ghosts.

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If you look at the narratives of alien abductees, it

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maps almost perfectly on to sleep paralysis.

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Speaker 1: What is the psychology behind People don't like change, So

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Hollywood continues to change the monsters. Does that? How do

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people deal with that when the monster keeps changing?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think some of them do and some of

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them don't. I mean, the one of the earliest Werewolf

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film I think goes back to nineteen thirteen. Wow, And

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then you know Robert Eggers is producing one right now

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that's going to come out this Christmas. So some of them,

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I think, some of those core experiences that really tap

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into human psychology, like the idea you can turn into

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an animal, I think they've They've been going on for

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thousands of years. You can even see cave paintings that

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depict people that are half animal half human. But then

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some of the more modern ones, certainly, some of the

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more psychologically driven ones, I think, I think, do shift

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over time. You know, there was a spate of multiple

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personality disorder what we now called dissociative identity disorder harror

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movies that came out, and you know, and you could

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see that in Psycho as well. But I think some

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of those things shift over time, and in sleep paralysis,

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the hallucinations seemed to shift over time. So I did

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a study of young undergraduates, and I was expecting to

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see demons and aliens and things like that that they

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were hallucinating. But the number one figure was a shadow

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person what which I wasn't even that familiar with. But

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they're believed to be either these interdimensional beings or time

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travelers who can't quite manifest on our plane fully, so

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you see them just as these shadowy, quasi transparent figures

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like the hat Man slender Man would sort.

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Speaker 1: Of be in there.

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Speaker 2: But that's a real clear instance of how this experience

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is being interpreted differently in twenty twenty five versus you know,

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the nineteen eighties when some of these some of the

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first research on this was going on.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Brian A Sharpless

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coming up next, the name of the book Monsters on

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the Couch, The real psychological disorders behind your favorite horror films.

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We're back with Brian A Sharpless. Does it bother you

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when millions of people consistently flock to a Freddy Krueger

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store just to buy a T shirt? I mean I

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always said back and go, My god, people please understand

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that's a serial killer that you're supporting.

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Speaker 2: It's even worse Freddy Krueger. And the original original script

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was a pedophile murder.

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Speaker 1: Oh my good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah in the remake they played that up. The

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remake shoot. I can't remember the actor's name, but he

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played Rorshack and the Watchman. I thought it was a

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pretty good remake, to be honest. It got a lot

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of flak, but yeah, yeah, we're attracted to the dark recesses,

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the transgressive, and I think, you know, we all have

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a dark side. We just don't like to admit it.

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And the sad thing is if we don't admit it

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to ourselves, we would be more likely to act upon it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you were talking about that Werewolf movie coming out

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on Christmas. That doesn't shock me. That seems to be

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the new theme right now. Every Christmas there's got to

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be a scary movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty popular. And then they are the

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Christmas horror movies. Oh yeah, we have like Sana carrying

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an axe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we accept that. It's like, yeah, that's a cool, dude,

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I want him come on down my chimney buddy.

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Speaker 2: I would not want him to give me a gift.

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Speaker 1: What is it about psychology that invites pop culture to

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the dance? Because I mean, I know that you're studying

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everything that we're doing. You're a people watcher or what

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I call a silent watcher, but there's something about our

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culture that really captivates your attention and then we learn

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from that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, for years, whenever I'd lecture, i'd i'd

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incorporate horror movies. It's a really great way to teach

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people about psychopathology, which is the scientific study of mental disorders.

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But more generally, clinical psychology has a lot to teach

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us about monsters, both on the silver screen and you

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know in real life. You know, you hear a lot

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of very interesting things when you're a clinical psychologists, either

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in therapy or in research, and people will open up

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to really the very uncomfortable urges they have, the things

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they've done that they're not proud of, and you know,

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you really get a window into what people really think

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that they might not want to share at a dinner party,

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for instance. And that's what really attracted me to the field,

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is really getting a deep insight into somebody it's nice

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to help people, but if I'm being completely honest, I'm

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just fascinated by people. I really like to understand what

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makes them tick and why they do the strange things

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that they do.

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Speaker 1: A modern day monster that I don't think I'm ever

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going to get over. Squid Games the girl, you know

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that where they were, they they're trying, they can't move

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and so therefore, I mean, she then shoots them down

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on the spot. It's that gigantic thing with a gun

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in the center of it.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I saw that episode.

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Speaker 1: Actually, Oh my god. Well it's like this just jig

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a machine and inside of it are the guns and

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so the So what happens is is they have to

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play basically a game of frozen tag. Basically they can

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only go so far and when everything stops and if

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you're moving, please you're gone. That's a monster.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, terrifying stuff. Wow. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So then how do you deal? How does when it

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comes to somebody coming to you that says, hey, look,

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I'm I'm in a real situation. These horror films are

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scaring me. It's really starting to affect my life. How

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do you get people to calm down and find a

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peaceful path.

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Speaker 2: That's actually never happened, relieve it or not. I've never

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had somebody come in that that was really the problem.

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I mean a lot of people will kind of have

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interesting associations with the horror movies. You can actually use

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horror films to help treat certain phobias. If you have

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someone with the blood phobia, for instance, you could more

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safely expose them to a fear of blood by showing

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them pictures and images of blood rather than you know,

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take them to a hospital or we're going to get

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their blood drawn. But yeah, I actually never happen anybody

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that's come to me with that problem. But certainly some

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of my patients, especially after the book came out, We're

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bringing horror movies in because they knew I was kind

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of interested in them.

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Speaker 1: See see, So now is there has there been anything

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that has caught you off guard? Where you go? WHOA

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didn't see that one coming?

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Speaker 2: In terms of patients or movies.

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Speaker 1: How about let's both of them because I'm well, I mean,

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because I mean, if Hollywood is really mimicking real life,

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I guess it's connected to real people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean doing research on the book, I found

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a case of a person who had the delusion that

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they turned into a gerbil, not a wolf, but a gurbil. Yeah, no,

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I'm serious, as a peer review Dusty Old Psychiatry journal.

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And the guy he started sleeping under his bed and

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his nose actually started wiggling like in a cute way

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that the rodents do. There was a case in Belgium

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just a couple of years ago of a woman who

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believes she turned into a chick. So we were only

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able to a colleague in the Netherlands and I were

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only able to find seventy seven cases of people that

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legitimately believe they turned into animals and acquired their characteristics.

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The posh term for that's clinical theory entropy. But in

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his case, in his practice, he works at a psychiatric

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hospital in the Hague and he sees a case of

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this about once every one to two years, so it's

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not like a major public health threat, but it's more

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common than you would think just looking at the literature.

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We only found seventy seven cases, and I'm very proud

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of the fact I might have been the first person

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to do inferential statistics on wear wolves.

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Speaker 1: See and of course right away I'm thinking through Native

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American spirituality and shamanism. That's a shape shifter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's all over the place. You see. You

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see beliefs of human animal transformation in places that don't

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even have wolves. You have wear tigers, wear crocodiles, wear lions,

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wear bears, and like I said, you can see in

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cave paintings. But we don't know what they mean. We

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don't know. Do people think they actually turned in animals

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or were they kind of making a psychological comment I'm

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as brave as the lion. Or were they kind of

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wearing animal prints like we might wear a sports jersey today.

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We have no idea because all we has the paintings.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you talk about the were wolves, the wear lions,

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where tigers? Where is Bigfoot? He's got to be a

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part of this.

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Speaker 2: Oh Bigfoot, He's totally real. I spent some time. I

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spent some time in the Pacific Northwest. I went squatching once.

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Fourteen percent of the population believes in Bigfoot. Yeah, I'm

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open to the possibility, but I'm more skeptical on that.

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Speaker 1: Wow, where can people go to find out more about

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you and jump on everything that you're doing? Because I

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love where you are with this.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thanks, Yeah, I have a lot of fun. I

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am rarely bored at my job. You can find out

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where I give talks and my publications on my website

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Briansharplist dot com. I give a lot of public lectures.

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I'm giving a chat on the psychology of conspiracy theories

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next Sunday in Richmond, virgin Yeah. So list my speaking

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engagements and my books, and you can find my books

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on all my books on Amazon. I have three outs

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from Oxford University Press that are more nerdy psychology books,

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and then the one you've been asking me about is

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put out by Chicago Review Press. Wow, And it's all

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available wherever weird books are sold.

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Speaker 1: Are you getting any clients or anything like that coming

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in there about Alien Earth? Because that's I mean, now

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that the aliens have come to Earth, that right there

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is freaking me out. I would have to see somebody

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a professional too, you know, because it's freaking me out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I haven't had those cases come by me yet,

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but those cases of people who believe that their loved

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ones have been replaced, I've seen three cases of that. Yep.

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And just wait till the reptilians get popular.

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Speaker 1: I came out of the premiere that night, and everybody's going,

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you know, how close we are to this really happening.

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Don't see that to me, don't see that kind of stuff.

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We can't be that close. Oh we're that close, and

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so it really scarce me.

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Speaker 2: I hear a lot of scary stuff in my job.

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Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Well, please come back to this show anytime in the future.

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The door is always going to be open for you. Brian.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. I had a great time.

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Will you can I say You've got a fantastic voice

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for radio. I'm very jealous.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's not mine. It's actually it's like I always

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tell people, it belongs to radio station consultants and program

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directors that spent many hours with me sitting down saying

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say it this way, say it this way.

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Speaker 2: Make sure the ws.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, when I was at when I was at

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light one o two point nine, it was light one

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oh two point nine, not light one or two point

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And of course when I was at cook it was serious.

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Oh yeah, it was k oh okay, not k okay.

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So oh yeah, they work with you big time. Oh yeah,

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they are the monsters of radio. Do your research. They exist.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think your book can be the sequel.

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Speaker 1: You'd be brilliant today. Okay, hey, thanks so much.

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Speaker 2: Cheers,