WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. During

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<v Speaker 1>the lead up to the Brian Coberger trial that never came,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of talk about the different conditions

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<v Speaker 1>that he was suffering from, and according to his psych evaluation,

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<v Speaker 1>he was diagnosed with autism, OCD and anorexia. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you remember, there was a battle going on inside the

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<v Speaker 1>courtroom between his legal team and the state about these

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<v Speaker 1>conditions and if they would be mitigating factors when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to the death penalty, and the judge, Judge Hitler,

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<v Speaker 1>ruled against the defense in every single one of them,

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<v Speaker 1>saying that none of these conditions raised to a level

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<v Speaker 1>that would prevent a capital punishment sentence from being handed down.

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<v Speaker 1>But now those evaluations have been unsealed, and for the

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<v Speaker 1>first time, the public's getting a look at what the

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<v Speaker 1>defense expert had to say. So in this episode, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to dive into an article from People and the

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<v Speaker 1>headline psych evaluation diagnosing Brian Coberger with autism, OCD and

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<v Speaker 1>orexia unsealed. This article was authored by Chris Spargo. Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Colberger revealed that he had been diagnosed with four mental

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<v Speaker 1>health disorders in a twenty twenty five cord filing autism

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<v Speaker 1>Level one, OCD, ADHD, and ar FID. There was no

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<v Speaker 1>additional information on those disorders including in that filing, but

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<v Speaker 1>Coberger did note that he had been diagnosed with all

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<v Speaker 1>four in February of twenty twenty five. Now the detailed

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<v Speaker 1>neuropsychological evaluation that resulted in those diagnoses have been unsealed

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<v Speaker 1>by the court, providing details about the four disorders while

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<v Speaker 1>also revealing for additional diagnosis that were previously unknown. So

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<v Speaker 1>here's the question. Was Brian Colberger going through a psychiatric break?

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<v Speaker 1>Was he having some kind of issue, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>they're saying with Lindsay Clancy. So I guess what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>getting at is where do we draw the line? Because

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't you use that same defense for Brian Colberger? Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>he was suffering from AB and C. I mean, look,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just playing Devil's advocate here. As you all know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think this dude is as guilty as it comes.

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<v Speaker 1>And when it comes to these conditions, I don't really

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<v Speaker 1>have any sympathy for him or empathy. He was able

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<v Speaker 1>to function in society for all these years, right, was

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<v Speaker 1>able to go to college, was able to get you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a ba was working on his PhD. But all of

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<v Speaker 1>a sudden, now we want to rely on these conditions

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to him being in trouble. Now you

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<v Speaker 1>can miss me with that. Now. I know that there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people that are down with that shit

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<v Speaker 1>these days, but not me. Guess what if you kill somebody,

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<v Speaker 1>you need to pay the price. Now we can talk

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<v Speaker 1>about mitigation when it comes to the penalty phase one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent. And if somebody is going through a mental episode,

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<v Speaker 1>then yeah, there should be some concessions. But the million

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<v Speaker 1>dollar question at this point is where's that line drawn.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it drawn at some woman who says that she's

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<v Speaker 1>suffering from postpartum depression who has been obviously over medicated,

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<v Speaker 1>or do we draw the line at Brian Colberger saying

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<v Speaker 1>that he has these disorders? And if one's acceptable, why

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<v Speaker 1>isn't the other? You know they're going to make that

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<v Speaker 1>argument in court right. The evaluation was done by Rachel Lawson,

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<v Speaker 1>an expert hired by Colberger's defense team. She was brought

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<v Speaker 1>in by Colberger's attorney Ann Taylor as she and prosecutors

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<v Speaker 1>butted heads over Coburger's mental health, which he argued should

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<v Speaker 1>be a mitigating factor, but prosecutors wish to classify as

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<v Speaker 1>an aggravator according to emotion in lemonae filed by the

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<v Speaker 1>defense at the time. And remember this is about mitigation, right,

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<v Speaker 1>not about if he's guilty, you're innocent, And that's when

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<v Speaker 1>this comes into play. So do you give somebody the

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<v Speaker 1>death penalty who has all these conditions? Or as a

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<v Speaker 1>jur do you say, you know what, I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that I can go through with that. I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that he meets the standard in my opinion, considering the

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<v Speaker 1>issues that he has and considering how he was able

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<v Speaker 1>to function, it would be a non starter. If I

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<v Speaker 1>was a jur that narrative would be away with me.

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<v Speaker 1>And I try to put myself in the jury box

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<v Speaker 1>when we're talking about this, because that's what really matters, right,

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<v Speaker 1>What would the jurors think? And in my opinion, the

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<v Speaker 1>jerry is not going to be buying any of this nonsense.

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<v Speaker 1>She also provided the court with Or's evaluation of Coburger,

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<v Speaker 1>which had remained under steal until now. The defense made

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<v Speaker 1>it clear that the evaluation was not done to pursue

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<v Speaker 1>a mental capacity defense at trial, but rather to put

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<v Speaker 1>Or on the stand if needed, so she could respond

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<v Speaker 1>to claims made by prosecutors. It's all about mitigation again. Remember,

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<v Speaker 1>it's all about Brian Colberger not getting the death penalty.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what they were trying to do. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that when we look back at this in retrospect, it's

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<v Speaker 1>obvious that Ann Taylor knew that Brian Colberger was cooked.

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<v Speaker 1>She saw all the evidence, she saw the discovery, she

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<v Speaker 1>saw all of the information that was going to be used,

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<v Speaker 1>and she knew that her client was in big trouble.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why she told him to take the plea. Not

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<v Speaker 1>because he got bad counsel, not because Ann Taylor's a

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<v Speaker 1>bad lawyer, it's anything. But he took that plea deal

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<v Speaker 1>because he knew that the gag was up and that

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<v Speaker 1>if you went to trial, a jury in Idaho was

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<v Speaker 1>going to find his ask guilty and give him the

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<v Speaker 1>death penalty. Colberger ultimately met with ORR on six separate

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<v Speaker 1>occasions over three months for testing, evaluations, and conversation. According

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<v Speaker 1>to the evaluation, a copy of which people obtained, one

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<v Speaker 1>of the first things that Or noted to a report

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<v Speaker 1>was Coberger's restricted range of facial expression with stoic effect

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<v Speaker 1>at baseline and look, there's a lot of people out

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<v Speaker 1>there that are really suffering from these conditions. So I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not trying to make light of that. But what I

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<v Speaker 1>am saying is I'm not buying it. It's not enough. Okay, cool,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry you have these conditions. Why did you kill

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<v Speaker 1>those four kids? It's really what it comes down to

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<v Speaker 1>for me, and frankly, I'm not interested in excuses or

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<v Speaker 1>reasons why. She wrote that smiles were often slight, his

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<v Speaker 1>social smiling was either inconsistent or absent, and the manner

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<v Speaker 1>in which he often furrowed his eyebrows during more like

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<v Speaker 1>conversation contributed the awkward engagement. So what, he's a weird dude.

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<v Speaker 1>That means he should kill people? We should just you know, Ah,

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<v Speaker 1>I get it. He was a social misfit, So the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that he killed those four kids, we should just

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<v Speaker 1>you know, be more understanding of that. No, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>more understanding of it, and I don't care. Coburger also

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<v Speaker 1>exhibited a number of atypical social behaviors, she said, which

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<v Speaker 1>included lack of descriptive or emphatic gestures, a typical speech

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<v Speaker 1>tone and cadence, awkward interaction, lack of fluidity, awkward delivery

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<v Speaker 1>of humor at times, awkward comments eg. I had a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of fun doing the XX cognitive text, inconsistent understanding,

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<v Speaker 1>acknowledgment of humor, poor reciprocity of interaction, including very frequently

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<v Speaker 1>refocusing of conversation back on his own experiences, or unusual

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<v Speaker 1>responses to my sharing. Okay, so the weird kid, that's

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<v Speaker 1>basically what he was. How many people like that? Do

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<v Speaker 1>you know how many people did you go to school

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<v Speaker 1>with like that? And how many of them ended up killing?

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<v Speaker 1>Four kids who are sleeping? Reduced social qualities at times

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<v Speaker 1>without awareness, primarily through matter of fact comments or directives

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<v Speaker 1>e g. Replying firmly I'll tell you when I'm done,

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<v Speaker 1>one prompted for anything else during cognitive measures, or an

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<v Speaker 1>abrupt response, unusual observations he made during testing, occasional intense gaze.

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<v Speaker 1>So what about any of that tells us that he

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be held to the fullest extent of the law

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<v Speaker 1>for what he did. Well, according to Judge Hipler, none

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<v Speaker 1>of it. Or also wrote in our evaluation that Colburger

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<v Speaker 1>has impulse tendencies throughout evaluation, pointing out that he violated

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<v Speaker 1>rules and rushed through tests. Additionally, he had an overall

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<v Speaker 1>poor insight, according to Or, except for a few moments

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<v Speaker 1>of fleeting acknowledgment one explicitly challenged to consider his role

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<v Speaker 1>in certain situations. Oh give me a break. He was

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<v Speaker 1>socially aware enough to make it through college, socially aware

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<v Speaker 1>enough to get there, and socially aware enough to become

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<v Speaker 1>a TA. But all of a sudden, Brian Colberger is

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<v Speaker 1>a vegetable sitting around drooling on himself with a helmet.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not buying any of it. Save the emotional terrorism

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<v Speaker 1>for somebody else. I've had my fill. Much of the

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<v Speaker 1>behavior that Or witnessed were also reported by Colburger's parents

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<v Speaker 1>and two sisters, who were interviewed on multiple occasions as

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<v Speaker 1>part of the evaluation. Or wrote that Coburger's family noted

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<v Speaker 1>that his struggles with everything from deficits in nonverbal communication

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<v Speaker 1>and a limited range of facial expressions to rigid thinking

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<v Speaker 1>and behavior, along with trouble coping with changes in routine

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to the real world. Who the fuck wants

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<v Speaker 1>their routine changed? Not me? So does that mean he

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<v Speaker 1>should get off on murder? His family members also described

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<v Speaker 1>engaging in extensive social coaching add provision of social feedback

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<v Speaker 1>to Noah Vail. According to the evaluation, this led to

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<v Speaker 1>a diagnose of Coburger with four mental health disorders. The

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<v Speaker 1>first was autism spectrum disorder level one without any accompanying

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<v Speaker 1>intellectual or language impairment. Individuals that are diagnosed tend to

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<v Speaker 1>be high functioning and display only a few symptoms of

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<v Speaker 1>the disorder and often require no assistance to perform everyday

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<v Speaker 1>tasks like I said nothing, Burger. She also diagnosed Coburger

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<v Speaker 1>with obsessive compulsive disorder, which is typically characterized by an

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<v Speaker 1>individual engaging in repetitive behavior in an attempt to shut

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<v Speaker 1>out on wanted intrusive thoughts. Coburger also received an attention

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<v Speaker 1>deficit hyperactivity disorder diagnosis, which is one of the more

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<v Speaker 1>common developmental disorders and can manifest in a number of ways,

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<v Speaker 1>varying from person to person. A majority of those diagnosed

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<v Speaker 1>struggle to pay attention, while others struggle to stay organized,

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<v Speaker 1>keep a schedule, or stay focused on a specific task. Lastly,

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<v Speaker 1>she diagnosed Coburger with an eating disord arfied or avoidant

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<v Speaker 1>restrictive food intake disorder, most common in children. This disorder manifests,

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<v Speaker 1>and highly selective eating habits that greatly limit in individual's

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<v Speaker 1>diet and can result in malnutrition and limit a person's

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<v Speaker 1>physical growth. Or also said that Colberger had met the

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<v Speaker 1>criteria before additional diagnosis in the past developmental coordination disorder,

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<v Speaker 1>an unspecified depressive disorder, anorexia nervosa, an opioid use disorder.

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<v Speaker 1>That last disorder or result of the heroin addiction Colburger

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<v Speaker 1>developed in his teenage years is in sustained remission or

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<v Speaker 1>noted in the evaluation. Okay, none of that meets the

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<v Speaker 1>bar for him not to get the death penalty. And

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<v Speaker 1>now that we actually have the report and I've looked

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<v Speaker 1>at it, I feel the same way. This man should

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<v Speaker 1>have stood trial and in my opinion, should have been

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<v Speaker 1>found guilty and he should have faced the firing squad.

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<v Speaker 1>Colberger did not attempt to claim he was not the

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<v Speaker 1>mind due to any of these diagnoses when entering his

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<v Speaker 1>guilty plea to the four charges of murder. He wrote

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<v Speaker 1>in his own filing that he was aware of the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that if the judge accepted his plea, he would

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<v Speaker 1>likely be sentenced to serve four lifetimes in prison along

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<v Speaker 1>with an additional ten years on a burglary charge. Four

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<v Speaker 1>life sentences still not enough, because those four lives that

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<v Speaker 1>he took, they're never coming back, no matter how many

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<v Speaker 1>years this idiot does. Colberger then appeared in court on

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<v Speaker 1>July second, twenty twenty five, and confessed to killing the

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<v Speaker 1>four University of Idaho students Madison Mogan, Kayley Gunsalvis, Xana Kernodle,

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<v Speaker 1>and Ethan Chapin. Three weeks later, he was back in court,

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<v Speaker 1>at which time he was sentenced to serve four lifetimes

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<v Speaker 1>in prison for those murders. Then, in July of twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty six, Coburger filed the motion with the court asking

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<v Speaker 1>that his guilty plea be tossed out and that he

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<v Speaker 1>be allowed a trial on account of ineffective council. Prosecutors

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<v Speaker 1>have yet to respond to the filing. Ineffective council. That's

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<v Speaker 1>some of the biggest horseshit I've ever heard. This dude

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<v Speaker 1>has not had ineffective council. Okay, and Taylor killed it

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<v Speaker 1>for him. She was great. And you know how you

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<v Speaker 1>know she was great because everybody was criticizing her at

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<v Speaker 1>the time. She's going too far. There's too many filings, etc. Etc.

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<v Speaker 1>So that whole entire argument just doesn't hit. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think that the court is going to recognize that, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that this appeal is going to be smacked down.

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<v Speaker 1>But like usual, we'll keep following along and we'll see

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<v Speaker 1>what the prosecution has to say. In response to Brian Coberger.

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<v Speaker 1>All the information that goes with this episode can be

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<v Speaker 1>found in the description box.