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<v Speaker 1>On December fifteenth, twenty seventeen, the shocking discovery of Berry

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<v Speaker 1>and Honey Sherman's bodies in their Toronto mansion sent shockwaves

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<v Speaker 1>across Canada and the world. The billionaire couple, celebrated for

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<v Speaker 1>their philanthropy and influence and powerful pharmaceutical company, were found

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<v Speaker 1>dead under mysterious circumstances. Their death sparked countless theories, from

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<v Speaker 1>a botched robbery to a personal vendetta or even a

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<v Speaker 1>calculated contract killing. Either way, the Shermans had made enough

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<v Speaker 1>people bitter and angry along their path to becoming wealthy.

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<v Speaker 1>The list of potential suspects seemed endless. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>story of Barry and Honey Sherman, the billionaire murders.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingram,

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<v Speaker 2>a true crime podcasting.

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<v Speaker 1>The following material intend more mature audience listener discretion.

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<v Speaker 2>Happpy New Year, Happy New Year's Eve. There's a question, mind,

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<v Speaker 2>it is Happy New Year's Eve, but I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>majority of people will most likely be listening to this

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<v Speaker 2>in the new year, so I'm just saying Happy New.

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<v Speaker 1>Year, Happy twenty twenty five. If you are If not

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<v Speaker 1>you still have a little bit left of twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>There we go, covering all bases, right.

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<v Speaker 2>It is like wild that it's already going to be

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Man, I still feel like COVID just started, Like you

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<v Speaker 1>know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>I still feel like I just graduated from like high school,

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<v Speaker 2>or we just got married. We've been We've been this year. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five married fifteen fricking years. Yeah, that's long,

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<v Speaker 2>Like holy shit, Yeah, that just seems impossible.

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<v Speaker 1>Which means we've been together for what almost twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, here it will be together.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty Holy guacamole. Yeah, we're old, we're aging ourselves. Take

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<v Speaker 1>a deep breath, no kidding, I'm gonna take a deep

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<v Speaker 1>sip of coffee. Hopefully you guys have some good plans

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<v Speaker 1>for your new year and good New Year's resolution. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not one to always make New Year's resolution or believe

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<v Speaker 1>in them, but it is good motivation for many people.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you need that motivation, hopefully it is there

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<v Speaker 1>for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, well, we're going to be talking about our New

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<v Speaker 2>Year's resolutions at dinner, not necessarily just like thoughts of

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<v Speaker 2>what we want for twenty twenty five. I've decided this, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna have a conversation at our dinner. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>out for dinner and then we're just going to go

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<v Speaker 2>to a friend's house that has like fireworks and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>and then home. Like, I'm actually fine if i'm home

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<v Speaker 2>before midnight.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think we probably will be and every look.

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<v Speaker 2>Like complete losers. Though if we leave before midnight.

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<v Speaker 1>Nah, I think it'll be good. But I do have

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<v Speaker 1>a question if we're going to be talking about like

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<v Speaker 1>our resolutions, ish, I guess I'm assuming it's going to

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat most likely involve our businesses. Could we maybe write

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<v Speaker 1>off dinner tonight if we just have you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>business dinner?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well we never had ours. We didn't do a

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas party this year for ourselves.

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<v Speaker 1>We didn't, so maybe.

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<v Speaker 2>This is it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. I think we just decided let's go home and

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<v Speaker 1>we have some patrons to think before we get too

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<v Speaker 1>deep into what we're going to be doing for our

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<v Speaker 1>New years. We have perpetually exhausted Love the name relating

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<v Speaker 1>to that and Jenny who signed up this week, so

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<v Speaker 1>they're getting that behind the scenes all the exclusive content,

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<v Speaker 1>and we are having another episode come out today for

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<v Speaker 1>the final exclusive episode of the year, which comes out

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<v Speaker 1>the end of every month.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, well, I mean in a year span, that's

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<v Speaker 2>twelve extra episodes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and if you go back in the library, we've

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<v Speaker 1>been going for like what probably two and a half

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<v Speaker 1>years of Patreon, so there's there's at least like fifty

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<v Speaker 1>ep moll, not fifty I guess thirty ish episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>You've come up with other content too, but the library there,

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<v Speaker 1>it's growing.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I bet. Yeah, there's got to be at least

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<v Speaker 2>like thirty forty on there.

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<v Speaker 1>I think so. But we do have quite the case

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<v Speaker 1>today that we're talking here, not on Patreon, just for

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<v Speaker 1>the general like podcast for everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm a bit shocked. You're shocked because I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>recognize those names. The only other thing you told me

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<v Speaker 2>is that this is Canadian. Well you said it in

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<v Speaker 2>the thing it was Toronto, Yeah, and it wasn't really

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<v Speaker 2>that long ago. No, So I'm like surprised that this

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<v Speaker 2>isn't ringing a bell for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I don't know why I haven't heard of this

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<v Speaker 1>one until recently either, because it seems like it should

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<v Speaker 1>be a very high profile case, which it is.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, yeah, interesting, maybe bits will come back to me.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but I don't think i've heard of this.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's probably because it's Canadian. Like, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>Canada doesn't seem to do great with its news at times.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, is that just a Canada. I think it's just

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<v Speaker 2>a Canada thing. Have we talked about this. We're not

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<v Speaker 2>even allowed our news on our social media. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 2>like if you share a link, a news source link

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<v Speaker 2>or anything like, it won't let you. Like there's just

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<v Speaker 2>no news allowed on social media.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's a Canadian.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a Canadian thing. That was something that Justin

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<v Speaker 1>Trudeau implemented I believe it was last year, which.

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<v Speaker 2>I just feel like is really kind of shady.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is only allowed allowing news sources such as Foxy,

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<v Speaker 1>TV News all that sort of thing to actually distribute news.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but I don't even think they are allowed really,

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<v Speaker 2>are they?

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<v Speaker 1>No, you have to like they can't share on social media. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but that allows them to have the monopoly on sharing news,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because yeah, I even one about trying to share

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<v Speaker 2>like a good news story. We were remember we were

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<v Speaker 2>in the news or I was in the news or something,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was like not a negative thing whatsoever, Like

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<v Speaker 2>it was positive.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was something about your business.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember that, and it just like wouldn't let me.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like the fuck. Okay yea, anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyways, Canada is weird like that. So I wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>surprised if there's many reasons similar ish as to why

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<v Speaker 1>this hasn't been like really put out there. But it

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<v Speaker 1>is a whole high profile case and it is exactly

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<v Speaker 1>that very wealthy people billionaires with a fucking B. You're

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<v Speaker 1>not hearing me say millionaires, Bill billionaires. Wow, some williamaires

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<v Speaker 1>in there, you get it because Bill William And it

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<v Speaker 1>was like, you know, you're just brushing past that. That

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<v Speaker 1>was good, some williamaires because Bill and Will you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know people call people like Bills for short of

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<v Speaker 1>Will what's his name? Well, we're not talking about his.

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<v Speaker 2>Name, shit, Okay. I was like, that would make sense

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<v Speaker 2>if his name was Bill.

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<v Speaker 1>No, his name is not Bill. His name is Barry.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know what I'm saying though, right, because Bill Naire.

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<v Speaker 1>But then for for short, it's Bill youonaire, but the

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<v Speaker 1>full would be Williamayre. Okay, I think it was funny.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a great story.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it was hilarious. It's great, and you're disappointing

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<v Speaker 1>me that you didn't enjoy that. Okay, enough of this,

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<v Speaker 1>this has been long, enough of us.

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<v Speaker 2>Rant I was just going to say, like that, you

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<v Speaker 2>said pharmaceuticals right therein Yes, Okay, so it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess that they're billionaires.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So starting off, we're going to talk about Barry,

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<v Speaker 1>not Bill Barry, Barry Sherman.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>Barry's life kicked off on February twenty fifth, nineteen forty two,

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<v Speaker 1>in Toronto. This is where he was born into a

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish family. Things weren't always easy for Barry, though. His dad, Herbert,

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<v Speaker 1>ended up passing away from a heart attack when Barry

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<v Speaker 1>was just ten years old. It was a tough blow,

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<v Speaker 1>but even as a kid, Barry had a knack for

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<v Speaker 1>bouncing back. He was super sharp, and especially when it

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<v Speaker 1>came to science, it was clear early on that he

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<v Speaker 1>was destined for something big. Barry went on to study

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<v Speaker 1>engineering at the University of Toronto, but he wasn't stopping

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<v Speaker 1>there either. He had site set on the chemical industry,

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<v Speaker 1>which led him to earn a doctorate at MIT. With

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<v Speaker 1>his degree in hand, Barry came back to Canada because

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<v Speaker 1>where he actually went was like Massachusetts Technology. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>he came back to Canada ready to dive into this

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<v Speaker 1>pharmaceutical world. Now, at the time, his uncle Louis Winter

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<v Speaker 1>owned a small pharmaceutical business called Empire Laboratories. So Barry

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<v Speaker 1>saw an opportunity and he jumped onto it, buying the

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<v Speaker 1>company in nineteen sixty seven. Oh wow, Okay, so this

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<v Speaker 1>was the first big step that would become his legendary career.

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<v Speaker 2>If you will, Well, he seems like he's a smart dude.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh definitely. Not long after that, Barry launched Apotex, Inc.

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<v Speaker 1>A company that would eventually become Canada's go to producer

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<v Speaker 1>of generic drugs. So we are talking pharmaceutical drugs. So

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<v Speaker 1>when we have like tailanol or like those are name brands, right, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so you can get like the no name brand sort

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<v Speaker 1>of ones, that's what he's producing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so Apitex wasn't just a big deal in Canada.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you meant like thailan on advil or advil. Sorry, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because like as is like a medication. Yeah yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>Tailanol and Advil are the brands.

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<v Speaker 1>My apologies. Yeah. So Apa Tex wasn't just a big

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<v Speaker 1>deal in Canada. It was a global player in this market,

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<v Speaker 1>making affordable medications for millions of people around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>And not only that, there was many donations to relief

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<v Speaker 1>funds as well from these medications, so sending like crates

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<v Speaker 1>and millions of dollars worth of medications when there is

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<v Speaker 1>actually people in need. So this wasn't just like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>you find this company in Canada, No, this was across

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<v Speaker 1>the globe. So Barry himself became a well known figure,

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<v Speaker 1>famous for his smarts and his nonsense approach to business.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't afraid to get, you know, his hands a

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<v Speaker 1>little dirty and go toe to toe with other big

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<v Speaker 1>pharmaceutical companies, especially when it came to a league battles

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<v Speaker 1>over patents. Now, that boldness made him a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a controversial character, but there's no denying the massive impact

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<v Speaker 1>that he made on the industry. This brings us to

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<v Speaker 1>Honey Sherman. Honey was born Hannah Swidler in nineteen forty

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<v Speaker 1>seven in Wellyn, Ontario, and came from a humble beginning,

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<v Speaker 1>but had big dreams from a young age. She aimed

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<v Speaker 1>for a life beyond her modest upbringing and Honey met

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<v Speaker 1>Barry during their university years, and together they formed a

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<v Speaker 1>rock solid partnership, both personally and as well professionally. After

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<v Speaker 1>they got married, Honey didn't just stand by Barry's side,

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<v Speaker 1>She actively contributed to their shared success and became a

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<v Speaker 1>force in philanthropy. Honey threw herself into charity work, focusing

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<v Speaker 1>on supporting the Jewish community, funding hospitals and helping those

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<v Speaker 1>in need. She was known for her warm personality and

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<v Speaker 1>hands on approach as well, often personally involving herself in

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<v Speaker 1>projects that she financed. Together Barry and Hunty, he became

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<v Speaker 1>one of Canada's most prominent power couples, living in a luxury,

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<v Speaker 1>luxurious home in one of Toronto's high and elite neighborhoods.

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<v Speaker 1>But behind the wealth and polished public image, there was tension.

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<v Speaker 1>Barry's aggressive business style, particularly at Apotex, had earned him

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<v Speaker 1>plenty of enemies along the way. Honey and Berry may

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<v Speaker 1>have presented a picture perfect life, but their fortune and

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<v Speaker 1>the way it was built came with complications. Lawsuits from

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<v Speaker 1>disguntled family members and business associates were quite common as

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<v Speaker 1>people weighed for a piece of Barry's immerse immense wealth.

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<v Speaker 1>Being a billionaire, after all, often means making tough choices,

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<v Speaker 1>and sometimes that means you're ruffling a lot of feathers.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I don't feel like you can get

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<v Speaker 2>a billionaire and not have any enemies.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. And there's many people who say, like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, maybe there was a lot of philanthropy

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<v Speaker 1>involved in their life. Maybe they were making donations, they

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<v Speaker 1>were donating medications and all these sort of things. But

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<v Speaker 1>there is the argument if you know, tax rite offs

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<v Speaker 1>and that sort of thing, and maybe it you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they actually get more money back and what they don't

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. I'm not going to pretend to understand that.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's a lot of arguments out there on whether

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<v Speaker 1>they were good intention to people or if there were

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<v Speaker 1>more selfish intentions behind these sort of things. And there

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<v Speaker 1>were a lot of, like I said, lawsuits, patent arguments

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<v Speaker 1>and court battles and things to go along with it.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's two sides of the coin. There's the hey,

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<v Speaker 1>these are good people, and hey these are bad people,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm not going to pretend to understand which side

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<v Speaker 1>they could have been, because there's a lot to this

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<v Speaker 1>and understanding who people are, and especially when you get

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<v Speaker 1>to this level of business, there's so many things behind

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<v Speaker 1>the scene that no one is going to ever hear

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<v Speaker 1>about or understand.

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<v Speaker 2>So honestly, I feel just listening to this, I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like their life just sounds so stressful, Like it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>sound enjoyable whatsoever, just like constantly being like suit or

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<v Speaker 2>like having these enemies, and I don't know, it just

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't sound enjoyed. But I'm like a people blaser, so

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<v Speaker 2>that's just wouldn't work with me.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think for them it was as stressful as

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<v Speaker 1>we would think, because I mean they, for example, you're

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<v Speaker 1>a billionaire, right you can hire a legal team.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, they would have like just people working for them.

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<v Speaker 2>But I still like, depends how involved they are in

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<v Speaker 2>the business and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, They are very involved, And I think that's one

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<v Speaker 1>of the reasons why I don't think it was like

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<v Speaker 1>as stressful as we may think, is because it's like

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<v Speaker 1>they loved what they did, you know. Okay, so yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>now despite all these conflicts and everything going on, though

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<v Speaker 1>the Shermans. They appeared to live a charming life. They

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<v Speaker 1>seamlessly blended their wealth, influenced generosity, all the controversy as well.

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<v Speaker 1>They maintained an impeccable public image. Kind of Really, what

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<v Speaker 1>made what happened next so shocking is because they did

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<v Speaker 1>appear to be comfortable. They did appear to be happy

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<v Speaker 1>and generous and all this sort of things. So it

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<v Speaker 1>was on December fifteenth, twenty seventeen, when Toronto police received

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<v Speaker 1>a call that would send shockwaves through the city and

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<v Speaker 1>the country and the world if you heard about the case. Anyways,

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<v Speaker 1>as you mentioned at the beginning, we never heard of it.

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<v Speaker 1>But regardless, Berry and Honey had been found dead in

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<v Speaker 1>their mansion.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah, yeah, I there's none of this has sounded

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<v Speaker 2>familiar to me whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, not one piece of it sounds familiar to

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<v Speaker 1>me when researching either.

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<v Speaker 2>I also have to say, there, I feel like there's

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<v Speaker 2>a many wealthy people that don't donate anything or like

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<v Speaker 2>give back to anything, So that has to be you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a plus in their direction.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, for sure, they did do good. You can argue

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<v Speaker 1>their intentions behind it. You can argue it was overshadowed

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<v Speaker 1>by you know, maybe negative things they did, but you

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<v Speaker 1>can't argue that they did do good things.

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<v Speaker 2>Dang. But also to be that wealth wealthy and to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to get murdered like it's like they did

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<v Speaker 2>they have security, Like I'm intrigued to hear more.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, the discovery came when real estate agents showing

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<v Speaker 1>the house to potential buyers, went over to the pool area.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, Now, the house was immaculate. It was approximately

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<v Speaker 1>twelve thousand square foot. Holy shit, pools, hot tubs, tennis court,

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much anything you could ask for inside a home

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<v Speaker 1>like this, and it had recently just gone on the

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<v Speaker 1>market and was listed at just under seven million dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>So while touring this illustrious home, what they found inside,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, apart from the stunning architecture and design, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>was this horrifying scene. At first, by the pool, they

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<v Speaker 1>thought they were two mannequins propped up, but once it

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<v Speaker 1>got closer, they found the bodies of Berry and Honey

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<v Speaker 1>as they were seated on the ground next to the pool,

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<v Speaker 1>their next tied with leather belts to a low metal railing.

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<v Speaker 1>Holy shit, Berry's legs were crossed in a disturbingly calm

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<v Speaker 1>kind of position will Honey lay more on her side

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00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:12.360
<v Speaker 1>with bruises visible on her face. Both of them were

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00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:16.279
<v Speaker 1>fully clothed, their coats pulled down over their shoulders restraining

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00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:20.000
<v Speaker 1>their arms. They weren't facing the water. Instead, they were

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00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:24.799
<v Speaker 1>positioned as if staged facing away.

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<v Speaker 2>Huh wow. Okay, First of all, that would not show

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00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:32.000
<v Speaker 2>well that home if there's like a murder scene in there. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>like kidding, that's another terror thing to add to the

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<v Speaker 2>list of being a realtor, I feel like, yeah, but

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<v Speaker 2>holy shit, Okay, wow, to be to have them people

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<v Speaker 2>like that be touchable, you know, to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>get murdered is scary.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, their home was on Old Colony Road, and

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<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned it is, it's a fucking mansion, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's one in one of Toronto's wealthiest neighborhoods. And it's

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00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:04.200
<v Speaker 1>this neighborhood is known for its high security and surveillance. Okay,

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00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:07.200
<v Speaker 1>it's caught, tall fences, all this sort of thing. However,

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<v Speaker 1>as far as I could find, the sherman's home did

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<v Speaker 1>not have security cameras. Inside security systems, sure, but cameras no.

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00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:19.279
<v Speaker 1>The home showed no signs of forced entry, no broken windows,

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<v Speaker 1>no smashed locks, no alarms triggered. In fact, the security

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00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:26.440
<v Speaker 1>system had actually even been disarmed. It was turned off

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00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.720
<v Speaker 1>at the time. Now, this detail immediately raised suspicions. Whoever

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00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:34.559
<v Speaker 1>was responsible seemed to maybe you know, not force their entry,

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<v Speaker 1>So it was likely that they knew the Shermans well

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<v Speaker 1>enough to enter their home undetected or at least without

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<v Speaker 1>setting off alarms or raising their.

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<v Speaker 2>Alarm, which makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so lack of force entry basically pointed to a

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<v Speaker 1>perpetrator or perpetrators who had access to the house or

333
00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:53.279
<v Speaker 1>knew them, and making this investigation just a little bit

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00:17:53.319 --> 00:18:01.599
<v Speaker 1>more chilling considering that potential connection. Yeah, this gruesome scene

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00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:06.240
<v Speaker 1>left investigators in the public grappling with a single burning question, who,

336
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.079
<v Speaker 1>of course would do this and why? News, of course,

337
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:17.039
<v Speaker 1>quick spread like wildfire and family, neighbors, reporters, colleagues. They

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00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:20.519
<v Speaker 1>all were just making their way to the Toronto home.

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00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Burry and Honey had always seemed untouchable, you know, so

340
00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:28.880
<v Speaker 1>their wealth connections and fortress, all this it just nothing

341
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.519
<v Speaker 1>seemed to make sense. Why, Like I can't paint that

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00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:33.640
<v Speaker 1>why picture enough?

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<v Speaker 2>M hm, Well, I mean people were angry with them,

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00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:38.920
<v Speaker 2>but then usually it seemed like they would go about

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00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:41.960
<v Speaker 2>suing them, you know, not necessary for sure, breaking in

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<v Speaker 2>their home and murdering.

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<v Speaker 1>Them exactly now. It was almost immediately though, whispers of

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<v Speaker 1>a potential double suicide began to circulate. Oh shit, Yes,

349
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:55.240
<v Speaker 1>the peculiar positioning of the body seemed to lend itself

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00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.480
<v Speaker 1>to this speculation. However, this theory was quickly shot down

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<v Speaker 1>by the family and close friends, and his theory was

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<v Speaker 1>actually what the authorities investigators were initially running with two.

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<v Speaker 1>Those who knew Berry and Honey insisted though, that there

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<v Speaker 1>was no reason for them to end their lives. They

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00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.119
<v Speaker 1>were described as a couple deeply invested in their business,

356
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.400
<v Speaker 1>in their you know, donations, their charity, their family, and

357
00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:23.480
<v Speaker 1>their future as well. The initial police statement was frustratingly vague,

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<v Speaker 1>offering only a confirmation that two bodies had been discovered,

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00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.920
<v Speaker 1>But behind the scenes, the investigators were already exploring yeah,

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00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:38.599
<v Speaker 1>multiple theories, with this suicide one being the prominent. The

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<v Speaker 1>public weighed in. They also wanted to have a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a voice, you know, whether it was actually protesting

363
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.640
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. I'm unsure, but the public had their strong

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00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.519
<v Speaker 1>opinion and there was no short of theories regarding these

365
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:53.079
<v Speaker 1>opinions either, Okay, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Have a question though, sorry, Were they like hanging? Were

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<v Speaker 2>they were the bodies like hanging?

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<v Speaker 1>They weren't hanging per se. They were sitted seated on

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<v Speaker 1>the ground is what Barry was in his position of

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<v Speaker 1>so think sitting cross legged and Honey was laying on

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<v Speaker 1>her side. I'm not sure if she was supported somewhat

372
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<v Speaker 1>by the belt and Sam was Barry. But their bodies

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<v Speaker 1>were on the ground in some sort of fashion with

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<v Speaker 1>some sort of weight being held up by the belt

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<v Speaker 1>tied to the railing.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, it just it's I guess that's hard for

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<v Speaker 2>me to believe that it was suicide. I just I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>who knows how a person would go about doing that,

379
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I guess, But it doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem

380
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<v Speaker 2>like it seems like they would either I don't know,

381
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:43.079
<v Speaker 2>shoot themselves or take drugs or something. You know. Yeah,

382
00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:44.160
<v Speaker 2>that seems peculiar.

383
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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a lot of people were quite frustrated with this

384
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.920
<v Speaker 1>suicide thought of potential love it. They didn't think it

385
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.119
<v Speaker 1>made sense either. And as I mentioned, like the relatives

386
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.319
<v Speaker 1>were just like no, like they had no reason to

387
00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.720
<v Speaker 1>commit this suicide or anything. Right, Like Barry didn't show

388
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.799
<v Speaker 1>any signs of like instability. He was like working with

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00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:07.759
<v Speaker 1>his business NonStop, and Honey was going forward with these

390
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.079
<v Speaker 1>donations and projects, all these sort of thing. It was

391
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:15.319
<v Speaker 1>just yeah, she was known to be warm, friendly. None

392
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.480
<v Speaker 1>of it made any sort of sense, even talking to

393
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:19.839
<v Speaker 1>some of the neighbors. She was often seen walking and

394
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:23.039
<v Speaker 1>chatting with neighbors in the neighborhood. It just, yeah, it

395
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.920
<v Speaker 1>didn't make any sense consider a suicide.

396
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:30.039
<v Speaker 2>You don't fully know ever, what's going behind on behind closed.

397
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.519
<v Speaker 1>Doors, right, that's true. That's true. Now. One intriguing detail

398
00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:36.799
<v Speaker 1>did come to light though, that kind of helped maybe

399
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:42.240
<v Speaker 1>potentially point the investigation in another direction other than potential suicide,

400
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:44.799
<v Speaker 1>was that the couple had put their home on the

401
00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:49.039
<v Speaker 1>market for sale just weeks before their death. This sparked

402
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:51.880
<v Speaker 1>a flurry of new theories. I mean, because there's countless

403
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.680
<v Speaker 1>theories out there on this case, but some speculated that

404
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:58.279
<v Speaker 1>the sale process had inadvertently opened the door to danger,

405
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.519
<v Speaker 1>like the homeless for sale, bringing in strangers, potential buyers,

406
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.079
<v Speaker 1>possible criminals who were like scouting the place sort of thing.

407
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<v Speaker 2>Oh right, dang, I never went there, but yeah, it's

408
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:10.960
<v Speaker 2>very big possibility.

409
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<v Speaker 1>Others theorized that the Shermans might have been hiding something

410
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:17.440
<v Speaker 1>selling the property and an attempt to distance themselves from

411
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.440
<v Speaker 1>whatever troubles they're trying to hide. They're trying to move on.

412
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Maybe right if someone figured out where they lived and

413
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.559
<v Speaker 1>they're like, okay, we can't be here, or who knows what,

414
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:27.880
<v Speaker 1>maybe they buried a body in planters in the yard

415
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:28.960
<v Speaker 1>or something. I don't know.

416
00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, Well, when you said that it was

417
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:34.640
<v Speaker 2>for sale, it did seem a little bit odd to me,

418
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.319
<v Speaker 2>But who knows. People buy and sell different stuff all

419
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:38.240
<v Speaker 2>the time, right.

420
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.440
<v Speaker 1>Well exactly, and like the realtor handling their estate and everything,

421
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:43.920
<v Speaker 1>or their a state, their home, whatever you want to say.

422
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:48.079
<v Speaker 1>They quickly helped dismiss the speculation on like the sale

423
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.519
<v Speaker 1>being for a reason of like getting out of there.

424
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:55.599
<v Speaker 1>Apparently the Shermans were just looking to downsize move to

425
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.640
<v Speaker 1>a more modern home, so the realtor was kind of

426
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:05.559
<v Speaker 1>just like, yeah, that's that's that's malarchy. Soon came the

427
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:10.319
<v Speaker 1>critical developments of the autopsy results. Forensic experts confirmed that

428
00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:14.200
<v Speaker 1>both Berry and Honey had died from quote ligature neck compression,

429
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:17.400
<v Speaker 1>which is basically Yeah, they were exphyxiated, right, they were choked.

430
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:20.240
<v Speaker 1>This finding confirmed that the grim nature of the death

431
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:24.119
<v Speaker 1>also deepened, like all the mysteries around this, And strangely,

432
00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:26.640
<v Speaker 1>there were no significant signs of a struggle on their

433
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.119
<v Speaker 1>bodies though, either, which is something very unusual in the

434
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:34.799
<v Speaker 1>case of homicides. So if you're considering there is no

435
00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:38.319
<v Speaker 1>signs of a struggle, there's no signs of forced entry.

436
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.039
<v Speaker 1>That does lend a little bit more to the theory

437
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.240
<v Speaker 1>of suicide. However, how the bodies were found it kind

438
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.839
<v Speaker 1>of contradicts that suicide because I mean, it's not impossible.

439
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:53.119
<v Speaker 1>It does happen, But hanging oneself from a low thing

440
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.440
<v Speaker 1>like that, when you have your your sitting on the ground,

441
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:57.079
<v Speaker 1>it's not probable.

442
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, it gives you opportunity to act. Say, I feel

443
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:02.880
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of people they I don't know, they'll

444
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.039
<v Speaker 2>do like jump off a bridge and as they're like

445
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:08.559
<v Speaker 2>going down, they regret it, yeah, immediately, So it gives

446
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.079
<v Speaker 2>them the opportunity to change their mind.

447
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Right Exactly, people do commit suicide as they do self

448
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:18.759
<v Speaker 1>delete in that in that manner. So I'm not saying

449
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:24.440
<v Speaker 1>it's not possible, it's just a very unlikely way people

450
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:25.160
<v Speaker 1>do it well.

451
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:27.319
<v Speaker 2>And didn't honey have bruising on her face?

452
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:29.480
<v Speaker 1>She did have bruising on their face. And you remember

453
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 1>that their sweaters were pulled or their jackets were pulled

454
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:34.279
<v Speaker 1>in the way that it was, you know, restricting them.

455
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:38.480
<v Speaker 1>It was like binding them right right. Yeah. There were however,

456
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:41.799
<v Speaker 1>some minor scratches on their hands and faces, which experts

457
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.480
<v Speaker 1>suggests may have been the result of brief resistance. But

458
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:52.519
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to tell for sure. Okay, the autopsy findings,

459
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:54.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, added a lot of weight to different theories

460
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:58.640
<v Speaker 1>and everything, but yeah, also just raised a lot more

461
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:03.279
<v Speaker 1>questions and who knows, right, But it was determined that

462
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.759
<v Speaker 1>the Shermans had likely died on December thirteenth, a day

463
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:10.480
<v Speaker 1>or two before the bodies were discovered. This timeline gave

464
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:14.279
<v Speaker 1>investigators a clear starting point and actually began piecing together

465
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:17.359
<v Speaker 1>some events leading up to the crime. Now, naturally, the

466
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:20.119
<v Speaker 1>police turned their attention to people surrounding the Sherman's life,

467
00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:24.440
<v Speaker 1>focusing on Barry's extensive business dealings. But over the years,

468
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.960
<v Speaker 1>his aggressive tactics tactics or I can't talk today in

469
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.480
<v Speaker 1>the pharmaceutical industry had earned him quite the reputation as

470
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:36.599
<v Speaker 1>a ruthless competitor kind of As we already discussed, his company, Apotex,

471
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.359
<v Speaker 1>was often embroiled in high stakes legal battles, particularly with

472
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:45.319
<v Speaker 1>larger pharmaceutical firms. So we're not talking just individual against individual.

473
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:49.680
<v Speaker 1>We're talking large company versus large company CEO, pissing off ceo.

474
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, like people who have money and exactly. Yeah,

475
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:57.119
<v Speaker 2>because I feel like the majority of times was like

476
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:03.039
<v Speaker 2>murder cases, the list isn't huge, right of suspects, but

477
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:05.319
<v Speaker 2>in this case it seems like it really is.

478
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:09.119
<v Speaker 1>It almost seems endless. And the question right now for investigators,

479
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:13.839
<v Speaker 1>could corporate rivalries actually escalate to this violence? I mean,

480
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.000
<v Speaker 1>we see this sort of shit in movies all the time.

481
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:16.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

482
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:18.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm not high up in the corporate ladder in the

483
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:20.359
<v Speaker 1>real world, so I don't know, but it doesn't seem

484
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.359
<v Speaker 1>far fetched to me from what Hollywood tells me.

485
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very true.

486
00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:27.559
<v Speaker 1>Now, Barry's corporate life wasn't the only source of tension,

487
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:31.720
<v Speaker 1>though his family relationship was long fraught with drama. Several

488
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.920
<v Speaker 1>cousins have been locked in bitter lawsuits against Barry for years,

489
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.519
<v Speaker 1>accusing him of cutting them out of their rightful share

490
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.319
<v Speaker 1>of a family fortune. If you remember, he purchased out

491
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:47.359
<v Speaker 1>his uncle's business. Right, so those kids from that uncle, right,

492
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:50.319
<v Speaker 1>his cousins like, hey, that's our family business that you

493
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:51.400
<v Speaker 1>came in and like swooped.

494
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.119
<v Speaker 2>Now, I don't well he purchased it.

495
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how the whole like acquisition to that

496
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.319
<v Speaker 1>company came in. I don't know if he purchased stit.

497
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe had a deal because hey, family uphule. Maybe the

498
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:07.160
<v Speaker 1>uncle passed on more than he should. Who knows, right,

499
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:10.400
<v Speaker 1>But either way, these cousins felt that they were owed

500
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:13.559
<v Speaker 1>at least part of that company or part of his

501
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:16.160
<v Speaker 1>dang fortune.

502
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Man money just it just it brings the worstone people sometimes.

503
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:26.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And this this legal battle spanned decades, and as

504
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.119
<v Speaker 1>investigators dug deeper, they couldn't ignore the possibility of the

505
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:32.400
<v Speaker 1>roots of this crime that might actually stand within these

506
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.000
<v Speaker 1>grudges as well. Now, what made this case even more

507
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:39.359
<v Speaker 1>baffling was the lack of clear evidence pointing in any

508
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:44.160
<v Speaker 1>sort of direction. Now, despite Toronto's police launching a massive investigation,

509
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.200
<v Speaker 1>they're handling of the case faced harsh criticism right from

510
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:51.240
<v Speaker 1>the start see earlier on. Authorities leaned into the theory

511
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:54.119
<v Speaker 1>of the murder, suicide or suicide. Right, So we're thinking

512
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:56.799
<v Speaker 1>either one of them killed one and then suicide themselves

513
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.279
<v Speaker 1>or double suicide, right, So who knows. But that was

514
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:02.440
<v Speaker 1>one of the theories that they were working with from

515
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:06.079
<v Speaker 1>the very beginning, but under mounting public pressure, the police

516
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:09.920
<v Speaker 1>were forced to rethink their theory. A month into the investigation,

517
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:14.720
<v Speaker 1>they revived their stance, officially declaring the deaths as targeted

518
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:19.759
<v Speaker 1>double homicide. This changed the entire direction of the case,

519
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:27.160
<v Speaker 1>so many believe, though unfortunately this change came way too late.

520
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:30.799
<v Speaker 1>See on the day Berry and Honey's bodies were discovered,

521
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:35.440
<v Speaker 1>numerous people had entered their homes, their home, not homes,

522
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:41.440
<v Speaker 1>home relatives, police officers, real estate agents, journalists all were

523
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.359
<v Speaker 1>in the home contaminating the crime scene. Because the police

524
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:49.839
<v Speaker 1>are looking at this as hey, suicide, right, but still.

525
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Why the hell are their people in there?

526
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Well it's not a crime scene.

527
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess, I guess.

528
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:58.400
<v Speaker 1>So now a month later it's officially a crime.

529
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Signe o shitka, that's not good.

530
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.079
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not. So anything that might have been actually

531
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.640
<v Speaker 1>vital clues was now potentially compromised, right yep. So adding

532
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:10.400
<v Speaker 1>to the complexity was the sheer size of the Sherman

533
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.200
<v Speaker 1>residents as well. And don't get me wrong, I do

534
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:14.799
<v Speaker 1>want to clarify. I'm sure that they were investigating the

535
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:17.920
<v Speaker 1>house as somewhat of a crime scene, but I don't

536
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:19.880
<v Speaker 1>think they were fully, like very serious about it because

537
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.400
<v Speaker 1>they're like, yeah, it's probably suicide, you know what I mean. Now,

538
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.799
<v Speaker 1>the house itself was, as I mentioned earlier, twelve thousand

539
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:27.680
<v Speaker 1>square feet.

540
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or earlier when you said Holmes, I was like, well,

541
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:31.480
<v Speaker 2>it could be a few homes.

542
00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Sure, it could be maybe there's a pool house in

543
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:37.880
<v Speaker 1>the back or something. And I don't know, but twelve

544
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.440
<v Speaker 1>thousand square feet has dozens of rooms, and it makes

545
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.960
<v Speaker 1>it incredibly challenging to comb through this entire place for evidence.

546
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Every corner, every surface, every item had to be carefully

547
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:50.880
<v Speaker 1>examined for traces of the perpetrator. But the odds of

548
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:55.799
<v Speaker 1>covering anything and finding this just diminished with each passing day.

549
00:29:56.599 --> 00:29:59.319
<v Speaker 1>The Sherman's home also had multiple entrances for someone to

550
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:02.599
<v Speaker 1>enter and at the home. To top it all off,

551
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Friends and family also noted that Barry and Honey were

552
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:07.480
<v Speaker 1>the kind of people who wouldn't hesitate to open the

553
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.079
<v Speaker 1>door if someone came knocking and asking for help. Okay,

554
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:16.480
<v Speaker 1>oh man, yeah, so that only wid widens the possibility

555
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:20.119
<v Speaker 1>for more suspects. Now, Barry in particular had a history

556
00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:24.720
<v Speaker 1>of dealing with some lesson savory business associates. We talked

557
00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:26.920
<v Speaker 1>kind of a bit more about how he pissed some

558
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:29.720
<v Speaker 1>people off, for sure, but yeah, there was also some

559
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.160
<v Speaker 1>people who were a little bit less and savory potential

560
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:37.279
<v Speaker 1>potentially individuals with criminal history but dealing in the business

561
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:41.440
<v Speaker 1>side of things, still questionable backgrounds will say that. So

562
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:45.079
<v Speaker 1>his aggressive business practices often left others feeling this angry

563
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:50.200
<v Speaker 1>feeling towards him, as we know, right. Barry himself even

564
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:53.119
<v Speaker 1>speculated at one point about the risks that he had faced.

565
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.079
<v Speaker 1>In an interview with Jeffrey Robinson for the book in

566
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.640
<v Speaker 1>the late nineteen nineties, Sorry for a Book in the

567
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:02.440
<v Speaker 1>late teen nineteen nineties, he chillingly stated, quote, for a

568
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.920
<v Speaker 1>thousand bucks paid to the right person, you can probably

569
00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:10.480
<v Speaker 1>get someone killed. Oh my gosh, perhaps I'm surprised that

570
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:15.160
<v Speaker 1>hasn't happened. Okay, so he's surprised he hasn't been fucking

571
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:17.200
<v Speaker 1>killed in a hit yet.

572
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, thousand bucks, say, for a freaking life.

573
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I mean that was in nineteen ninety to

574
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.759
<v Speaker 1>start with, still inflation, maybe that's five thousand today. Who

575
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:29.720
<v Speaker 1>knows five thousand to the right person, might you know?

576
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

577
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:33.680
<v Speaker 1>So, at the time of the murders, Barry had recently

578
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:37.039
<v Speaker 1>also emerged victorious in illegal battle against his cousins one

579
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:40.200
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about earlier. The court ruled that they owed

580
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:43.680
<v Speaker 1>him thirty thousand dollars dollars in legal fees, which was

581
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:45.759
<v Speaker 1>far less than he had actually sought initially.

582
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:52.039
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, like the cousins owed him money. Correct, Oh, okay,

583
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:54.759
<v Speaker 2>that is not gonna go well because they took him

584
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:59.720
<v Speaker 2>to court. Yeah, this battle lasted years. He won the battle,

585
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:03.599
<v Speaker 2>and now it's like, okay, you owe me some restitutions

586
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Speaker 2>here because you know, I've been sitting in court for

587
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:07.400
<v Speaker 2>years fighting this when I was in the right this

588
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.759
<v Speaker 2>whole time. You cause this headache for me. You got

589
00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:11.799
<v Speaker 2>to pay for my shit? Well, so, and like the

590
00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:14.880
<v Speaker 2>cousins had their own legal fees that they had to pay,

591
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.559
<v Speaker 2>and now they have to pay this guy's either clearly

592
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:18.359
<v Speaker 2>not enjoying.

593
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:21.200
<v Speaker 1>So that's yes, And who's going to be able to

594
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:23.640
<v Speaker 1>afford it? More likely the billionaire.

595
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Probably well yeah, and there, Yeah, I could imagine they

596
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:26.680
<v Speaker 2>would just be like pissed.

597
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, honestly, I do want to clarify. I don't

598
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:31.359
<v Speaker 1>think he has like a billion dollars in his bank

599
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:34.240
<v Speaker 1>or had. It's more more likely that he had like

600
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:35.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, stocks.

601
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Investment tied up. Yeah.

602
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:38.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I don't think he has all that cash

603
00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:41.000
<v Speaker 1>on hand, willy nilly, but I'm sure he.

604
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:42.559
<v Speaker 2>Has a chunk of it though.

605
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, one of his cousins, Carrie Winter, from this lawsuit,

606
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:51.680
<v Speaker 1>actually openly admitted that he himself had the motive and

607
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:58.160
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to kill Barry. He openly admits he had

608
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.799
<v Speaker 1>the motive and opportunity unity to do it.

609
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean it wouldn't take like, I mean, anyone

610
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:05.480
<v Speaker 2>could see that though.

611
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:08.160
<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent. Now, Carrie set his own hours working

612
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.880
<v Speaker 1>as a construction supervisor, which investigators noted gave him quite

613
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:16.039
<v Speaker 1>the flexibility. However, even though he made a bold statement

614
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.759
<v Speaker 1>like that, he was eventually clear suspicion through some solid alibis. Okay, yeah,

615
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:27.160
<v Speaker 1>apparently he was watching Netflix Peaky Blinders and then also

616
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:31.599
<v Speaker 1>went to a cocaine recovery addicts, meaning.

617
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh, Wow. Okay, So okay.

618
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:35.880
<v Speaker 1>I think it's very funny that, yeah, he was specifically

619
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:37.000
<v Speaker 1>watching Peaky Blinders.

620
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, I mean I guess, yeah, Like, okay, last

621
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:43.119
<v Speaker 2>night we watched a shit ton of Netflix. We stayed

622
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:44.960
<v Speaker 2>up way too late, watching the shit.

623
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.039
<v Speaker 1>Squid Game season two, the entire thing.

624
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And so it's interesting, like we would have a

625
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.799
<v Speaker 2>perfect alibi, like clearly we were doing that, but also

626
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:55.640
<v Speaker 2>you could have shit playing in your home and not

627
00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:56.079
<v Speaker 2>be there.

628
00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:59.519
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's true, right, that's true. But either way,

629
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:04.119
<v Speaker 1>he was most likely at the the cocaine thingy, you

630
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:08.079
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean. Now, Barry's financial situation was also

631
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:10.599
<v Speaker 1>raising some red flags. Yes, he was a billionaire, and

632
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:14.239
<v Speaker 1>we just kind of covered this a little bit. You know,

633
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.599
<v Speaker 1>probably a lot of money tied up in different things. Right, So,

634
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:20.280
<v Speaker 1>just two weeks before the killings, Barry had asked his

635
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Speaker 1>son Jonathan, to repay him a few million dollars tens

636
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:26.920
<v Speaker 1>of millions of dollars in fact, that he had borrowed

637
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:31.039
<v Speaker 1>for his storage business. So Jonathan explained that this was

638
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:34.920
<v Speaker 1>to help his dad through a tight financial spot. Whatever

639
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.280
<v Speaker 1>that exactly means hasn't exactly been released. But despite this

640
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.199
<v Speaker 1>Barry had reassured his son that he would continue supporting

641
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:43.320
<v Speaker 1>him once his financial situation improved.

642
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so maybe there even was bigger reason to them

643
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:49.320
<v Speaker 2>selling their home, which I had thought about, like maybe

644
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.400
<v Speaker 2>they needed some some money.

645
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:55.360
<v Speaker 1>Like freed up potentially that's very very likely, honestly. I mean,

646
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:57.519
<v Speaker 1>who's to say you need a seventy thousand dollars home

647
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:00.519
<v Speaker 1>or sorry, seven million? Why did I say seventy thousand?

648
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:03.400
<v Speaker 1>That's way off a seven million dollar home.

649
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:05.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like if they sell that and then maybe they

650
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:08.039
<v Speaker 2>buy a home that's two million, like that, he frees

651
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:08.679
<v Speaker 2>up so much.

652
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:11.599
<v Speaker 1>Money, exactly, money that you know what, you could probably

653
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:14.360
<v Speaker 1>make more millions on if you invest it and know

654
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:17.760
<v Speaker 1>what you're doing, which he clearly does. So Jonathan and

655
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Barry were reportedly close, both personally and professionally, and you know,

656
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:25.039
<v Speaker 1>came this kind of money transfer situation, and that's what

657
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:28.639
<v Speaker 1>Jonathan's saying is, Yeah, tight financial spot, which opens up

658
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:32.719
<v Speaker 1>a whole nother avenue of potential. You know what happens.

659
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Then came another shocking revelation. Court documents released in twenty

660
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:43.159
<v Speaker 1>twenty two revealed that Barry owed one billion another b

661
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:47.119
<v Speaker 1>in there billion to various companies at the time of

662
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:50.920
<v Speaker 1>his death, debts that he reportedly decided he was not

663
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:52.119
<v Speaker 1>going to repay.

664
00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, Yeah, so is he actually a billionaire if

665
00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:58.119
<v Speaker 2>he owes that much frickin' money?

666
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, no shit. You know, his refusal to honor such

667
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:06.719
<v Speaker 1>substantial debts very well could have angered some powerful people,

668
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:14.480
<v Speaker 1>which again just opens the door for more suspects. In

669
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:17.400
<v Speaker 1>November of twenty twenty, three, years after the murders took place,

670
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:20.480
<v Speaker 1>the Toronto Police announced that they had identified a quote

671
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:25.320
<v Speaker 1>person of interest. However, just two days later they clarified

672
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:29.039
<v Speaker 1>that this could refer to one individual or multiple, which

673
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:32.519
<v Speaker 1>just put a big old question mark right back on it.

674
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:33.639
<v Speaker 2>Okay, because the.

675
00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Police are like, we've identified someone of interest. Actually it

676
00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.000
<v Speaker 1>could be one person or many, or we don't know.

677
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:43.039
<v Speaker 1>It's like, yeah, what all right? So you don't know?

678
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:45.519
<v Speaker 2>It didn't It doesn't seem like they really did narrow

679
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:46.360
<v Speaker 2>down on someone.

680
00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:50.519
<v Speaker 1>Not really. So A year later, in December twenty twenty one,

681
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:54.159
<v Speaker 1>the investigation saw a potential breakthrough when police did release

682
00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:58.039
<v Speaker 1>a short video clip found from a security camera. Now

683
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.440
<v Speaker 1>the twenty second clip showed an una identified person dressed

684
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:05.039
<v Speaker 1>in all dark clothing walking down a snowy sidewalk in

685
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:09.320
<v Speaker 1>the Sherman's upscale neighborhood. Detective Brandon Price stated that the

686
00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:13.719
<v Speaker 1>individual's appearance kind of coincided with the estimated time of

687
00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:17.800
<v Speaker 1>the murders. So like, this dude or lady or whatever,

688
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:21.199
<v Speaker 1>this person is walking through this neighborhood kind of looking

689
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:23.480
<v Speaker 1>a little suspicious right around the time we believe that

690
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:27.000
<v Speaker 1>they were killed. Now, despite the release of this footage

691
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:33.800
<v Speaker 1>to the public, this person was never identified. Okay, while

692
00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:36.119
<v Speaker 1>it seemed like police were struggling to find a direction

693
00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:40.159
<v Speaker 1>to go at this point, Honey Sherman's sister, Mary Mary Shetman,

694
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:44.639
<v Speaker 1>believe murders might have been a quote statement. She believed

695
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.199
<v Speaker 1>it was tied to the couple's faith and their political beliefs.

696
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:50.719
<v Speaker 1>See Mary pointed to the Sherman's loyal support for Israel

697
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:55.760
<v Speaker 1>and Honey's outspoken Jewish identity. Honey had apparently made previous

698
00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:01.320
<v Speaker 1>comments that some might consider politically incorrect, allegedly particularly regarding

699
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:08.719
<v Speaker 1>religious extreme extremists extremism extremism. Mary even told police six

700
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.880
<v Speaker 1>months before her murder, Honey had attended a lecture about

701
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:16.599
<v Speaker 1>cutting off funding for Muslim fundamentalist groups.

702
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:19.519
<v Speaker 2>Hmm okay.

703
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Now, Honey also reportedly believed that severing these financial channels

704
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:27.239
<v Speaker 1>could weaken terrorist organizations, but also, according to Mary, Honey

705
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.599
<v Speaker 1>also believed that Barry might have been financially supporting the

706
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:35.639
<v Speaker 1>efforts aligned with her opposing cause, so they might have

707
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:40.639
<v Speaker 1>opposing views, supporting opposing groups. This is all allegedly.

708
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, honestly, this is just a mess.

709
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:44.119
<v Speaker 1>It is a mess.

710
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:46.119
<v Speaker 2>It's just like too many options here.

711
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:47.239
<v Speaker 1>Well that's the problem.

712
00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like this would be I feel like this would

713
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:52.559
<v Speaker 2>just this is the worst puzzle to have to to

714
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:56.239
<v Speaker 2>work on if you're like an investigator. Yep, it's not

715
00:38:56.360 --> 00:38:58.920
<v Speaker 2>fun at all. Like this just seems so not fun.

716
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Nope. Now, another theory mentions Barry's lobbying efforts, which were

717
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:08.519
<v Speaker 1>apparently nothing short of relentless, often pushing him at odds

718
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:11.320
<v Speaker 1>with political leaders and institutions. If it isn't enough for

719
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.679
<v Speaker 1>him to be tying up with other companies, institutions and

720
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.519
<v Speaker 1>CEOs all this sort of thing, he's also getting his

721
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:21.920
<v Speaker 1>hand not only in these other fundamentalist groups and stuff,

722
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:27.480
<v Speaker 1>but also in literal federal political parties. He wasn't afraid

723
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.119
<v Speaker 1>to take a stand and his influence stretched far beyond

724
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:34.320
<v Speaker 1>the pharmaceutical industry. One big example was his opposition to

725
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.079
<v Speaker 1>a law passed by Prime Minister Brian mulroney's government which

726
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:44.760
<v Speaker 1>extended patent protections for brand name drug makers. Barry believed

727
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:49.039
<v Speaker 1>this was bad news for smaller generic drug companies like Apotex,

728
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.840
<v Speaker 1>and pushed hard to fight against it. When his effort

729
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:57.239
<v Speaker 1>didn't succeed, he switched gears and backed Jean Cretchien and

730
00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party, who promised to revise the law if

731
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.239
<v Speaker 1>they won in the nineteen ninety three election. So he

732
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:06.320
<v Speaker 1>basically pulls out of this party and begins supporting this party.

733
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:10.679
<v Speaker 1>He's going to then revise the law when they're in power.

734
00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:14.079
<v Speaker 1>And now he's putting money flow and of course, you know,

735
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:18.440
<v Speaker 1>influence into pushing the Liberal Party that jankre Chen was representing.

736
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, politics is a bit of a scary game too, Hey, Yes.

737
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.559
<v Speaker 1>And that's exactly what's going on. He's getting very heavy

738
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:29.199
<v Speaker 1>in this very scary game. His lobbying didn't just stop

739
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.119
<v Speaker 1>at these politics. He donated millions to the University of

740
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.599
<v Speaker 1>Toronto for a research center, but when the university's efforts

741
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:39.000
<v Speaker 1>to challenge the patent law fell flat Berry pulled his funding.

742
00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, yeah, okay, that's not good. No, so he Okay,

743
00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:50.199
<v Speaker 2>I just have to say he is like like very

744
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:53.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I want to say emotional, but

745
00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>like he like isn't afraid to go out there and

746
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.360
<v Speaker 2>like speak his mind and piss anyone off.

747
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Really all definitely not not.

748
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:04.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, he's like he doesn't back down.

749
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:06.719
<v Speaker 1>No, he's he's going to go for what he wants

750
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:08.639
<v Speaker 1>and he doesn't care. Yes, he's going to do that.

751
00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now.

752
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:12.039
<v Speaker 1>At the time of his death, Barry was caught up

753
00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:16.119
<v Speaker 1>in yet another political scandal. As a registered lobbyist, he

754
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:21.280
<v Speaker 1>was under investigation for organizing a twenty fifteen fundraiser for

755
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:25.679
<v Speaker 1>Justin Trudeau, an event that allegedly broke Canada's lobbying rules.

756
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:29.559
<v Speaker 1>The investigation suggested Barry might have violated the Lobbyist Code

757
00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:32.119
<v Speaker 1>of Conduct, which could have led to a five year

758
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:35.639
<v Speaker 1>lobbying ban. Instead of waiting for the verdict, Barry made

759
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:39.079
<v Speaker 1>headlines by filing a lawsuit in twenty sixteen to shut

760
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:45.519
<v Speaker 1>down the investigation. Needless to say, he had strong political

761
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:48.679
<v Speaker 1>presence and made a lot of enemies, many of which

762
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:51.360
<v Speaker 1>would have had a motive to want him dead.

763
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:56.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, I couldn't imagine having this many people that

764
00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:59.440
<v Speaker 2>could like potentially choose to end your life.

765
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Right, that's terrible. Like the list literally seems endless. Yeah,

766
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:09.599
<v Speaker 1>like where do you even start? Yeah, that's like being

767
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:13.360
<v Speaker 1>like in a dollar store with a million dollars you

768
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:14.960
<v Speaker 1>can buy one thing or like what.

769
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Are you could just buy the whole good?

770
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Like what are you gonna do? Like do you do this?

771
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Do you want this? Like?

772
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, because these are also like powerful people too that

773
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:26.920
<v Speaker 2>they're dealing with that, I feel like, if you know,

774
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:32.280
<v Speaker 2>did have a hand in this, could very easily not

775
00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:32.800
<v Speaker 2>have it.

776
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:36.280
<v Speaker 1>Show for sure, right for sure? And even if they

777
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.840
<v Speaker 1>were to find any sort of evidence, you think it's

778
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:40.519
<v Speaker 1>going to be that powerful person that's going to link

779
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:42.000
<v Speaker 1>to or do you think it's just gonna be the

780
00:42:42.039 --> 00:42:42.920
<v Speaker 1>hit man they hired?

781
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Exactly?

782
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:47.719
<v Speaker 1>So Now, unfortunately, the mystery surrounding the death of Barry

783
00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:51.840
<v Speaker 1>and Honey Sherman remains unsolved to this day.

784
00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:55.239
<v Speaker 2>Shit, I was just waiting. I was like, no, no,

785
00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:57.320
<v Speaker 2>this is gonna be solved. This has to be solved.

786
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:02.079
<v Speaker 1>But god damn, despite years of destigation, countless theories, and

787
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, countless theories and a long list of possible motives,

788
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:10.760
<v Speaker 1>from corporate rivals to family disputes and political tensions. No

789
00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:16.000
<v Speaker 1>suspects have been named, not even a suspect.

790
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, and I mean, I guess there's even still the

791
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:21.039
<v Speaker 2>potential that it, like it was a suicide too, Like

792
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.719
<v Speaker 2>that's not fully I mean, it's kind of ruled out,

793
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:25.920
<v Speaker 2>but I guess it's like still a possibility, right.

794
00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:32.920
<v Speaker 1>It is a possibility. It's I think just low chance of. Yeah,

795
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:35.639
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't it doesn't add up to be a suicide.

796
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:39.559
<v Speaker 2>Dang. I cannot believe that someone got away with this.

797
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, someone kidding me. Someone wanted them dead and someone

798
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:46.599
<v Speaker 1>got exactly what they wanted.

799
00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Wow, and there's still this out there living their life.

800
00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:50.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure.

801
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

802
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean I feel like it would probably have well,

803
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:56.960
<v Speaker 2>oh man, I was just gonna say, I feel like

804
00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:59.039
<v Speaker 2>it was would probably be a hit man of sorts.

805
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:03.360
<v Speaker 2>But then like they they I also think that they

806
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:07.920
<v Speaker 2>may have known the person too, so frick I don't know, damn.

807
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:11.199
<v Speaker 2>I In situations like this, I feel like when cases

808
00:44:11.239 --> 00:44:13.480
<v Speaker 2>like this aren't solved, that they were just like all

809
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:16.719
<v Speaker 2>doomed because if anything should be solved, like if you

810
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:21.719
<v Speaker 2>think a billionaire's murder could would be solved, right, right.

811
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:23.559
<v Speaker 1>Because I mean the family is gonna probably have the

812
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:26.320
<v Speaker 1>money to throw at you know, private investigators and all

813
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:27.920
<v Speaker 1>this stuff to help solve it.

814
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they would themselves you think, have like protection,

815
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:35.000
<v Speaker 2>more protection than you know, the average joe.

816
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but here we are.

817
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:38.079
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

818
00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:43.519
<v Speaker 1>Clearly it shows that despite money, despite power, despite whatever

819
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:48.280
<v Speaker 1>situation you're in, we're no different than than each other.

820
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Wow, huh that one. That one is. I mean

821
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.800
<v Speaker 2>I can kind of understand why I didn't hear about it, because,

822
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:01.400
<v Speaker 2>like it's kind of a bummer that it's not solved either, right,

823
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Like I think if there was, if it got solved

824
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:06.199
<v Speaker 2>and there was someone that went to jail and like

825
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:09.800
<v Speaker 2>through court and stuff, we would have ended up hearing about.

826
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:13.159
<v Speaker 1>This more so probably. So I do have to say

827
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:16.679
<v Speaker 1>this is probably one of my least favorite cases I've covered.

828
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, I also have to say this would be a

829
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:22.159
<v Speaker 2>shit show to research, like that is the whole time

830
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:24.760
<v Speaker 2>you're presenting him, Like, thank God, I do not pick this.

831
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.880
<v Speaker 1>There's books, there's documentaries, there's TV series, there's article after

832
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:32.960
<v Speaker 1>article after there is so much on this and all

833
00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:36.679
<v Speaker 1>of it is theories because there is not an ounce

834
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:38.159
<v Speaker 1>of fucking evidence out of this.

835
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:39.679
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

836
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Hey yeah. The only evidence that I was actually able

837
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:45.480
<v Speaker 1>to come across, the only actual evidence was what came

838
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:48.920
<v Speaker 1>out of the autopsy and the video footage. That's it.

839
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:52.320
<v Speaker 1>That's all I found for physical, actual tangible evidence.

840
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:56.920
<v Speaker 2>You have to wonder if they had, you know, on

841
00:45:57.079 --> 00:46:01.360
<v Speaker 2>day one, had this labeled as a home aside that

842
00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:07.000
<v Speaker 2>or like a murder or whatever, if if those results

843
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.199
<v Speaker 2>would it change, you know, if they were if they

844
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:12.639
<v Speaker 2>would have been able to find the evidence, or if

845
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.280
<v Speaker 2>even regardless of that, if it still would be an

846
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:16.000
<v Speaker 2>unsolved thing.

847
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:19.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. That's hard to say because honestly, like

848
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:24.519
<v Speaker 1>in a in a mansion like that, in like billionaires,

849
00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:25.599
<v Speaker 1>they have.

850
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Staff, right, m right, Yeah, I never thought of that.

851
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:32.639
<v Speaker 1>So you have to think of the fact. Okay, what

852
00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:37.079
<v Speaker 1>if the hit man, you know, got to the staff

853
00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:39.119
<v Speaker 1>and figured out how to get in, or became a

854
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:42.400
<v Speaker 1>staff member briefly, or was was a staff member before,

855
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:44.639
<v Speaker 1>or who knows right and just knew how to get

856
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:49.039
<v Speaker 1>in the home, huh, Or what if it was you know,

857
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.880
<v Speaker 1>someone who the hit man was posing as, like oh,

858
00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:54.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm a representative of this individual for this lawsuit.

859
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:56.519
<v Speaker 1>This fucking can we talk to you for a minute? Sure,

860
00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:59.079
<v Speaker 1>come on in, and then killed. Like, there's so many

861
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:02.880
<v Speaker 1>possibilities on how you can access their home because by

862
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:05.760
<v Speaker 1>the sounds of it, Barry and Honey were not about

863
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:07.599
<v Speaker 1>to be the kind of people who like are on

864
00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:09.960
<v Speaker 1>the other side of an intercolm and be like go away.

865
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But it also like they were deceased for like

866
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:16.880
<v Speaker 2>a couple of days, two days approximately, without getting noticed.

867
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:18.440
<v Speaker 2>So that doesn't make any sense either.

868
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, I that's one part I didn't actually research, but

869
00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:26.159
<v Speaker 1>I do know that there was like a timeline with

870
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:30.079
<v Speaker 1>the realtor thinking that they were supposed to be going

871
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.000
<v Speaker 1>out of town or something like that, because when they

872
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:34.760
<v Speaker 1>showed the home, they weren't supposed to be there because

873
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:39.719
<v Speaker 1>they were off doing something. Okay, so they weren't. It

874
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:41.559
<v Speaker 1>was a shock that they were at the home because

875
00:47:41.559 --> 00:47:45.000
<v Speaker 1>they weren't supposed to be there, right, Okay, So when

876
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:47.440
<v Speaker 1>they're like, oh, you know, the house is quiet for

877
00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:50.719
<v Speaker 1>two days or whatever like that because they're not supposed

878
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:51.199
<v Speaker 1>to be there.

879
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:53.199
<v Speaker 2>Perfect time to show it and like, yeah, not have

880
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.800
<v Speaker 2>people around, I imagine this is still kind of being like,

881
00:47:56.920 --> 00:48:00.599
<v Speaker 2>it's you know, maybe there's still probably people to this.

882
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh, definitely, No, this is an ongoing investigation for sure.

883
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:05.480
<v Speaker 1>It's not a closed case.

884
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:11.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Wow, sorry, I'm just like processing this. It's just

885
00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:14.760
<v Speaker 2>this one is kind of just mind blowing. This one

886
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:15.920
<v Speaker 2>makes me think a lot.

887
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:18.519
<v Speaker 1>This is why this is probably my least favorite case,

888
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.639
<v Speaker 1>or at least one of because I love a mystery case.

889
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:24.800
<v Speaker 1>I love the thought of, you know, what could have happened.

890
00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:29.800
<v Speaker 1>But the problem with this is there is too many possibilities,

891
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:34.840
<v Speaker 1>like we couldn't even fathom coming up with every angle.

892
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:40.119
<v Speaker 1>It's just a jumbled mess of Hey, someone didn't like them,

893
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:44.639
<v Speaker 1>someone killed them, yeah, and then it's just random theory

894
00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:45.880
<v Speaker 1>after random.

895
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:48.039
<v Speaker 2>Fury, endless possibilities. Really it is.

896
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:52.079
<v Speaker 1>It's an un I'm not saying it's an unsolvable case,

897
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:54.519
<v Speaker 1>but with the information that is given to us at

898
00:48:54.559 --> 00:49:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the public right now, it's an unsolvable, un fathomable situation.

899
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Like a needle in a haystack stock stack.

900
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:06.920
<v Speaker 1>What is the saying needle in a haystack?

901
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I did get it right.

902
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:09.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, I feel like it's not even a needle in

903
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:12.760
<v Speaker 1>a haystack. I feel it is because I feel like

904
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:15.840
<v Speaker 1>we're I feel like the police are doing a needle

905
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:17.840
<v Speaker 1>in a haystack. That's what I feel like they're doing

906
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:20.039
<v Speaker 1>because they have, you know, evidence that they're not released

907
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:23.320
<v Speaker 1>in the public or whatever right for what we're given.

908
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:27.039
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we're given a picture of a haystack

909
00:49:27.079 --> 00:49:30.079
<v Speaker 1>and expected to find the needle. That's what I feel like,

910
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:31.960
<v Speaker 1>And that's why I don't like this case. It's because

911
00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:34.119
<v Speaker 1>it's like, what do you expect to come of this?

912
00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:37.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's hard, Like your mind wants to go about, like, oh,

913
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:41.519
<v Speaker 2>through all the possibilities, but it's just it's like impossible. Yeah,

914
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:45.599
<v Speaker 2>so huh, well, good job researching that one. I'm glad

915
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:47.119
<v Speaker 2>that that it was you and not me.

916
00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:51.239
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, thank you. It's an interesting case. Like I say,

917
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:53.159
<v Speaker 1>it's not one of my favorites, but it's definitely an

918
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:55.719
<v Speaker 1>interesting case that piqued my interest and it was still

919
00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:56.599
<v Speaker 1>worth sharing.

920
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, totally worth sharing. Its just I feel like

921
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:01.159
<v Speaker 2>I would to take me forever. I would have been

922
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:01.920
<v Speaker 2>all over the place.

923
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:03.719
<v Speaker 1>So oh so was I? So was I?

924
00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:04.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

925
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:06.400
<v Speaker 1>You actually, if going through this episode, you might have

926
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.440
<v Speaker 1>heard me being all over the place because my research,

927
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:12.119
<v Speaker 1>my brain, everything was all over the place and it

928
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:13.320
<v Speaker 1>was really hard to put together.

929
00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it would be so well. Anyway, you did

930
00:50:16.599 --> 00:50:17.159
<v Speaker 2>a good job.

931
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Thank you appreciate that. If you guys want to check

932
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:22.239
<v Speaker 1>out our links, we have a big description of this podcast.

933
00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:23.559
<v Speaker 1>You can go ahead and click on that and take

934
00:50:23.559 --> 00:50:26.000
<v Speaker 1>a look at what we have. You check out our Facebook,

935
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:28.880
<v Speaker 1>you could check out our YouTube, Instagram, yeah we got that.

936
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.119
<v Speaker 1>We even have a website. Whatever you want, check it out.

937
00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:33.360
<v Speaker 1>You can sign up for Patreon and you can get

938
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:36.159
<v Speaker 1>exclusive behind the scene content. You can support us. We're

939
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:38.360
<v Speaker 1>an indie show. We don't have a big corporation. Who's

940
00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:40.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, pulling the strings and telling us what to do.

941
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:43.239
<v Speaker 1>It's us. We live in our tiny home. We research,

942
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:46.199
<v Speaker 1>we produce, we do it all. So any of the

943
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:48.719
<v Speaker 1>support you do by going to those links, following us,

944
00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:52.280
<v Speaker 1>listening again, you know, giving us a review, that all

945
00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:55.199
<v Speaker 1>helps us immensely. And if you have done some of

946
00:50:55.239 --> 00:50:57.079
<v Speaker 1>those things, thank you so much. If you're listening still

947
00:50:57.079 --> 00:51:00.400
<v Speaker 1>while I'm still rambling right now, thank you so so.

948
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:02.719
<v Speaker 2>There are some people that listen to the bitter end

949
00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:05.400
<v Speaker 2>just to hear every last second, and I know which

950
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:05.800
<v Speaker 2>I love.

951
00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:09.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you guys know, we still get messages of

952
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:13.320
<v Speaker 1>people saying barbecue sauce occasionally, like to this day.

953
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:14.519
<v Speaker 2>We do. It's pretty awesome.

954
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:15.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

955
00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:18.320
<v Speaker 2>I can't even remember how that exactly came to be.

956
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:20.239
<v Speaker 2>I think it was at the very end of an episode.

957
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:21.320
<v Speaker 1>I think it was the end, but it was like,

958
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.880
<v Speaker 1>if you're still listening, just message us and say barbecue sauce.

959
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:25.360
<v Speaker 1>And we still get people doing that.

960
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:29.159
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, anyway, Happy New Year. We hope it's a

961
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:32.880
<v Speaker 2>good one. We hope you stay safe and until next episode,

962
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:35.079
<v Speaker 2>stay with it.