Speaker 1: On December fifteenth, twenty seventeen, the shocking discovery of Berry
Speaker 1: and Honey Sherman's bodies in their Toronto mansion sent shockwaves
Speaker 1: across Canada and the world. The billionaire couple, celebrated for
Speaker 1: their philanthropy and influence and powerful pharmaceutical company, were found
Speaker 1: dead under mysterious circumstances. Their death sparked countless theories, from
Speaker 1: a botched robbery to a personal vendetta or even a
Speaker 1: calculated contract killing. Either way, the Shermans had made enough
Speaker 1: people bitter and angry along their path to becoming wealthy.
Speaker 1: The list of potential suspects seemed endless. This is the
Speaker 1: story of Barry and Honey Sherman, the billionaire murders.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingram,
Speaker 2: a true crime podcasting.
Speaker 1: The following material intend more mature audience listener discretion.
Speaker 2: Happpy New Year, Happy New Year's Eve. There's a question, mind,
Speaker 2: it is Happy New Year's Eve, but I feel like
Speaker 2: majority of people will most likely be listening to this
Speaker 2: in the new year, so I'm just saying Happy New.
Speaker 1: Year, Happy twenty twenty five. If you are If not
Speaker 1: you still have a little bit left of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: There we go, covering all bases, right.
Speaker 2: It is like wild that it's already going to be
Speaker 2: twenty two twenty five.
Speaker 1: Man, I still feel like COVID just started, Like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I still feel like I just graduated from like high school,
Speaker 2: or we just got married. We've been We've been this year. Okay,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five married fifteen fricking years. Yeah, that's long,
Speaker 2: Like holy shit, Yeah, that just seems impossible.
Speaker 1: Which means we've been together for what almost twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Wow, here it will be together.
Speaker 1: Twenty Holy guacamole. Yeah, we're old, we're aging ourselves. Take
Speaker 1: a deep breath, no kidding, I'm gonna take a deep
Speaker 1: sip of coffee. Hopefully you guys have some good plans
Speaker 1: for your new year and good New Year's resolution. I'm
Speaker 1: not one to always make New Year's resolution or believe
Speaker 1: in them, but it is good motivation for many people.
Speaker 1: So if you need that motivation, hopefully it is there
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: Hey, well, we're going to be talking about our New
Speaker 2: Year's resolutions at dinner, not necessarily just like thoughts of
Speaker 2: what we want for twenty twenty five. I've decided this, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're gonna have a conversation at our dinner. We're going
Speaker 2: out for dinner and then we're just going to go
Speaker 2: to a friend's house that has like fireworks and stuff
Speaker 2: and then home. Like, I'm actually fine if i'm home
Speaker 2: before midnight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we probably will be and every look.
Speaker 2: Like complete losers. Though if we leave before midnight.
Speaker 1: Nah, I think it'll be good. But I do have
Speaker 1: a question if we're going to be talking about like
Speaker 1: our resolutions, ish, I guess I'm assuming it's going to
Speaker 1: somewhat most likely involve our businesses. Could we maybe write
Speaker 1: off dinner tonight if we just have you know, a
Speaker 1: business dinner?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we never had ours. We didn't do a
Speaker 2: Christmas party this year for ourselves.
Speaker 1: We didn't, so maybe.
Speaker 2: This is it.
Speaker 1: Okay. I think we just decided let's go home and
Speaker 1: we have some patrons to think before we get too
Speaker 1: deep into what we're going to be doing for our
Speaker 1: New years. We have perpetually exhausted Love the name relating
Speaker 1: to that and Jenny who signed up this week, so
Speaker 1: they're getting that behind the scenes all the exclusive content,
Speaker 1: and we are having another episode come out today for
Speaker 1: the final exclusive episode of the year, which comes out
Speaker 1: the end of every month.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I mean in a year span, that's
Speaker 2: twelve extra episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you go back in the library, we've
Speaker 1: been going for like what probably two and a half
Speaker 1: years of Patreon, so there's there's at least like fifty
Speaker 1: ep moll, not fifty I guess thirty ish episodes.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You've come up with other content too, but the library there,
Speaker 1: it's growing.
Speaker 2: Oh I bet. Yeah, there's got to be at least
Speaker 2: like thirty forty on there.
Speaker 1: I think so. But we do have quite the case
Speaker 1: today that we're talking here, not on Patreon, just for
Speaker 1: the general like podcast for everyone.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a bit shocked. You're shocked because I didn't
Speaker 2: recognize those names. The only other thing you told me
Speaker 2: is that this is Canadian. Well you said it in
Speaker 2: the thing it was Toronto, Yeah, and it wasn't really
Speaker 2: that long ago. No, So I'm like surprised that this
Speaker 2: isn't ringing a bell for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know why I haven't heard of this
Speaker 1: one until recently either, because it seems like it should
Speaker 1: be a very high profile case, which it is.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, interesting, maybe bits will come back to me.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I don't think i've heard of this.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably because it's Canadian. Like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: Canada doesn't seem to do great with its news at times.
Speaker 2: Okay, is that just a Canada. I think it's just
Speaker 2: a Canada thing. Have we talked about this. We're not
Speaker 2: even allowed our news on our social media. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like if you share a link, a news source link
Speaker 2: or anything like, it won't let you. Like there's just
Speaker 2: no news allowed on social media.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's a Canadian.
Speaker 1: That is a Canadian thing. That was something that Justin
Speaker 1: Trudeau implemented I believe it was last year, which.
Speaker 2: I just feel like is really kind of shady.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is only allowed allowing news sources such as Foxy,
Speaker 1: TV News all that sort of thing to actually distribute news.
Speaker 2: No, but I don't even think they are allowed really,
Speaker 2: are they?
Speaker 1: No, you have to like they can't share on social media. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that allows them to have the monopoly on sharing news,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because yeah, I even one about trying to share
Speaker 2: like a good news story. We were remember we were
Speaker 2: in the news or I was in the news or something,
Speaker 2: and it was like not a negative thing whatsoever, Like
Speaker 2: it was positive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was something about your business.
Speaker 2: I remember that, and it just like wouldn't let me.
Speaker 2: And I was like the fuck. Okay yea, anyway.
Speaker 1: Anyways, Canada is weird like that. So I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: surprised if there's many reasons similar ish as to why
Speaker 1: this hasn't been like really put out there. But it
Speaker 1: is a whole high profile case and it is exactly
Speaker 1: that very wealthy people billionaires with a fucking B. You're
Speaker 1: not hearing me say millionaires, Bill billionaires. Wow, some williamaires
Speaker 1: in there, you get it because Bill William And it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, you're just brushing past that. That
Speaker 1: was good, some williamaires because Bill and Will you know,
Speaker 1: you know people call people like Bills for short of
Speaker 1: Will what's his name? Well, we're not talking about his.
Speaker 2: Name, shit, Okay. I was like, that would make sense
Speaker 2: if his name was Bill.
Speaker 1: No, his name is not Bill. His name is Barry.
Speaker 1: But you know what I'm saying though, right, because Bill Naire.
Speaker 1: But then for for short, it's Bill youonaire, but the
Speaker 1: full would be Williamayre. Okay, I think it was funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great story.
Speaker 1: I thought it was hilarious. It's great, and you're disappointing
Speaker 1: me that you didn't enjoy that. Okay, enough of this,
Speaker 1: this has been long, enough of us.
Speaker 2: Rant I was just going to say, like that, you
Speaker 2: said pharmaceuticals right therein Yes, Okay, so it makes sense.
Speaker 2: I guess that they're billionaires.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So starting off, we're going to talk about Barry,
Speaker 1: not Bill Barry, Barry Sherman.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Barry's life kicked off on February twenty fifth, nineteen forty two,
Speaker 1: in Toronto. This is where he was born into a
Speaker 1: Jewish family. Things weren't always easy for Barry, though. His dad, Herbert,
Speaker 1: ended up passing away from a heart attack when Barry
Speaker 1: was just ten years old. It was a tough blow,
Speaker 1: but even as a kid, Barry had a knack for
Speaker 1: bouncing back. He was super sharp, and especially when it
Speaker 1: came to science, it was clear early on that he
Speaker 1: was destined for something big. Barry went on to study
Speaker 1: engineering at the University of Toronto, but he wasn't stopping
Speaker 1: there either. He had site set on the chemical industry,
Speaker 1: which led him to earn a doctorate at MIT. With
Speaker 1: his degree in hand, Barry came back to Canada because
Speaker 1: where he actually went was like Massachusetts Technology. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: he came back to Canada ready to dive into this
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical world. Now, at the time, his uncle Louis Winter
Speaker 1: owned a small pharmaceutical business called Empire Laboratories. So Barry
Speaker 1: saw an opportunity and he jumped onto it, buying the
Speaker 1: company in nineteen sixty seven. Oh wow, Okay, so this
Speaker 1: was the first big step that would become his legendary career.
Speaker 2: If you will, Well, he seems like he's a smart dude.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely. Not long after that, Barry launched Apotex, Inc.
Speaker 1: A company that would eventually become Canada's go to producer
Speaker 1: of generic drugs. So we are talking pharmaceutical drugs. So
Speaker 1: when we have like tailanol or like those are name brands, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: so you can get like the no name brand sort
Speaker 1: of ones, that's what he's producing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, so Apitex wasn't just a big deal in Canada.
Speaker 2: I think you meant like thailan on advil or advil. Sorry, yeah,
Speaker 2: because like as is like a medication. Yeah yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: Tailanol and Advil are the brands.
Speaker 1: My apologies. Yeah. So Apa Tex wasn't just a big
Speaker 1: deal in Canada. It was a global player in this market,
Speaker 1: making affordable medications for millions of people around the world.
Speaker 1: And not only that, there was many donations to relief
Speaker 1: funds as well from these medications, so sending like crates
Speaker 1: and millions of dollars worth of medications when there is
Speaker 1: actually people in need. So this wasn't just like, oh,
Speaker 1: you find this company in Canada, No, this was across
Speaker 1: the globe. So Barry himself became a well known figure,
Speaker 1: famous for his smarts and his nonsense approach to business.
Speaker 1: He wasn't afraid to get, you know, his hands a
Speaker 1: little dirty and go toe to toe with other big
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies, especially when it came to a league battles
Speaker 1: over patents. Now, that boldness made him a bit of
Speaker 1: a controversial character, but there's no denying the massive impact
Speaker 1: that he made on the industry. This brings us to
Speaker 1: Honey Sherman. Honey was born Hannah Swidler in nineteen forty
Speaker 1: seven in Wellyn, Ontario, and came from a humble beginning,
Speaker 1: but had big dreams from a young age. She aimed
Speaker 1: for a life beyond her modest upbringing and Honey met
Speaker 1: Barry during their university years, and together they formed a
Speaker 1: rock solid partnership, both personally and as well professionally. After
Speaker 1: they got married, Honey didn't just stand by Barry's side,
Speaker 1: She actively contributed to their shared success and became a
Speaker 1: force in philanthropy. Honey threw herself into charity work, focusing
Speaker 1: on supporting the Jewish community, funding hospitals and helping those
Speaker 1: in need. She was known for her warm personality and
Speaker 1: hands on approach as well, often personally involving herself in
Speaker 1: projects that she financed. Together Barry and Hunty, he became
Speaker 1: one of Canada's most prominent power couples, living in a luxury,
Speaker 1: luxurious home in one of Toronto's high and elite neighborhoods.
Speaker 1: But behind the wealth and polished public image, there was tension.
Speaker 1: Barry's aggressive business style, particularly at Apotex, had earned him
Speaker 1: plenty of enemies along the way. Honey and Berry may
Speaker 1: have presented a picture perfect life, but their fortune and
Speaker 1: the way it was built came with complications. Lawsuits from
Speaker 1: disguntled family members and business associates were quite common as
Speaker 1: people weighed for a piece of Barry's immerse immense wealth.
Speaker 1: Being a billionaire, after all, often means making tough choices,
Speaker 1: and sometimes that means you're ruffling a lot of feathers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't feel like you can get
Speaker 2: a billionaire and not have any enemies.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And there's many people who say, like,
Speaker 1: you know what, maybe there was a lot of philanthropy
Speaker 1: involved in their life. Maybe they were making donations, they
Speaker 1: were donating medications and all these sort of things. But
Speaker 1: there is the argument if you know, tax rite offs
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, and maybe it you know,
Speaker 1: they actually get more money back and what they don't
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not going to pretend to understand that.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of arguments out there on whether
Speaker 1: they were good intention to people or if there were
Speaker 1: more selfish intentions behind these sort of things. And there
Speaker 1: were a lot of, like I said, lawsuits, patent arguments
Speaker 1: and court battles and things to go along with it.
Speaker 1: So there's two sides of the coin. There's the hey,
Speaker 1: these are good people, and hey these are bad people,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to pretend to understand which side
Speaker 1: they could have been, because there's a lot to this
Speaker 1: and understanding who people are, and especially when you get
Speaker 1: to this level of business, there's so many things behind
Speaker 1: the scene that no one is going to ever hear
Speaker 1: about or understand.
Speaker 2: So honestly, I feel just listening to this, I feel
Speaker 2: like their life just sounds so stressful, Like it doesn't
Speaker 2: sound enjoyable whatsoever, just like constantly being like suit or
Speaker 2: like having these enemies, and I don't know, it just
Speaker 2: doesn't sound enjoyed. But I'm like a people blaser, so
Speaker 2: that's just wouldn't work with me.
Speaker 1: I don't think for them it was as stressful as
Speaker 1: we would think, because I mean they, for example, you're
Speaker 1: a billionaire, right you can hire a legal team.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they would have like just people working for them.
Speaker 2: But I still like, depends how involved they are in
Speaker 2: the business and stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, They are very involved, And I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I don't think it was like
Speaker 1: as stressful as we may think, is because it's like
Speaker 1: they loved what they did, you know. Okay, so yeah,
Speaker 1: now despite all these conflicts and everything going on, though
Speaker 1: the Shermans. They appeared to live a charming life. They
Speaker 1: seamlessly blended their wealth, influenced generosity, all the controversy as well.
Speaker 1: They maintained an impeccable public image. Kind of Really, what
Speaker 1: made what happened next so shocking is because they did
Speaker 1: appear to be comfortable. They did appear to be happy
Speaker 1: and generous and all this sort of things. So it
Speaker 1: was on December fifteenth, twenty seventeen, when Toronto police received
Speaker 1: a call that would send shockwaves through the city and
Speaker 1: the country and the world if you heard about the case. Anyways,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned at the beginning, we never heard of it.
Speaker 1: But regardless, Berry and Honey had been found dead in
Speaker 1: their mansion.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, yeah, I there's none of this has sounded
Speaker 2: familiar to me whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, not one piece of it sounds familiar to
Speaker 1: me when researching either.
Speaker 2: I also have to say, there, I feel like there's
Speaker 2: a many wealthy people that don't donate anything or like
Speaker 2: give back to anything, So that has to be you know,
Speaker 2: a plus in their direction.
Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, they did do good. You can argue
Speaker 1: their intentions behind it. You can argue it was overshadowed
Speaker 1: by you know, maybe negative things they did, but you
Speaker 1: can't argue that they did do good things.
Speaker 2: Dang. But also to be that wealth wealthy and to
Speaker 2: be able to get murdered like it's like they did
Speaker 2: they have security, Like I'm intrigued to hear more.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the discovery came when real estate agents showing
Speaker 1: the house to potential buyers, went over to the pool area.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Now, the house was immaculate. It was approximately
Speaker 1: twelve thousand square foot. Holy shit, pools, hot tubs, tennis court,
Speaker 1: pretty much anything you could ask for inside a home
Speaker 1: like this, and it had recently just gone on the
Speaker 1: market and was listed at just under seven million dollars.
Speaker 1: So while touring this illustrious home, what they found inside,
Speaker 1: you know, apart from the stunning architecture and design, yeah,
Speaker 1: was this horrifying scene. At first, by the pool, they
Speaker 1: thought they were two mannequins propped up, but once it
Speaker 1: got closer, they found the bodies of Berry and Honey
Speaker 1: as they were seated on the ground next to the pool,
Speaker 1: their next tied with leather belts to a low metal railing.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, Berry's legs were crossed in a disturbingly calm
Speaker 1: kind of position will Honey lay more on her side
Speaker 1: with bruises visible on her face. Both of them were
Speaker 1: fully clothed, their coats pulled down over their shoulders restraining
Speaker 1: their arms. They weren't facing the water. Instead, they were
Speaker 1: positioned as if staged facing away.
Speaker 2: Huh wow. Okay, First of all, that would not show
Speaker 2: well that home if there's like a murder scene in there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like kidding, that's another terror thing to add to the
Speaker 2: list of being a realtor, I feel like, yeah, but
Speaker 2: holy shit, Okay, wow, to be to have them people
Speaker 2: like that be touchable, you know, to be able to
Speaker 2: get murdered is scary.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, their home was on Old Colony Road, and
Speaker 1: as I mentioned it is, it's a fucking mansion, and
Speaker 1: it's one in one of Toronto's wealthiest neighborhoods. And it's
Speaker 1: this neighborhood is known for its high security and surveillance. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's caught, tall fences, all this sort of thing. However,
Speaker 1: as far as I could find, the sherman's home did
Speaker 1: not have security cameras. Inside security systems, sure, but cameras no.
Speaker 1: The home showed no signs of forced entry, no broken windows,
Speaker 1: no smashed locks, no alarms triggered. In fact, the security
Speaker 1: system had actually even been disarmed. It was turned off
Speaker 1: at the time. Now, this detail immediately raised suspicions. Whoever
Speaker 1: was responsible seemed to maybe you know, not force their entry,
Speaker 1: So it was likely that they knew the Shermans well
Speaker 1: enough to enter their home undetected or at least without
Speaker 1: setting off alarms or raising their.
Speaker 2: Alarm, which makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so lack of force entry basically pointed to a
Speaker 1: perpetrator or perpetrators who had access to the house or
Speaker 1: knew them, and making this investigation just a little bit
Speaker 1: more chilling considering that potential connection. Yeah, this gruesome scene
Speaker 1: left investigators in the public grappling with a single burning question, who,
Speaker 1: of course would do this and why? News, of course,
Speaker 1: quick spread like wildfire and family, neighbors, reporters, colleagues. They
Speaker 1: all were just making their way to the Toronto home.
Speaker 1: Burry and Honey had always seemed untouchable, you know, so
Speaker 1: their wealth connections and fortress, all this it just nothing
Speaker 1: seemed to make sense. Why, Like I can't paint that
Speaker 1: why picture enough?
Speaker 2: M hm, Well, I mean people were angry with them,
Speaker 2: but then usually it seemed like they would go about
Speaker 2: suing them, you know, not necessary for sure, breaking in
Speaker 2: their home and murdering.
Speaker 1: Them exactly now. It was almost immediately though, whispers of
Speaker 1: a potential double suicide began to circulate. Oh shit, Yes,
Speaker 1: the peculiar positioning of the body seemed to lend itself
Speaker 1: to this speculation. However, this theory was quickly shot down
Speaker 1: by the family and close friends, and his theory was
Speaker 1: actually what the authorities investigators were initially running with two.
Speaker 1: Those who knew Berry and Honey insisted though, that there
Speaker 1: was no reason for them to end their lives. They
Speaker 1: were described as a couple deeply invested in their business,
Speaker 1: in their you know, donations, their charity, their family, and
Speaker 1: their future as well. The initial police statement was frustratingly vague,
Speaker 1: offering only a confirmation that two bodies had been discovered,
Speaker 1: But behind the scenes, the investigators were already exploring yeah,
Speaker 1: multiple theories, with this suicide one being the prominent. The
Speaker 1: public weighed in. They also wanted to have a bit
Speaker 1: of a voice, you know, whether it was actually protesting
Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm unsure, but the public had their strong
Speaker 1: opinion and there was no short of theories regarding these
Speaker 1: opinions either, Okay, I.
Speaker 2: Have a question though, sorry, Were they like hanging? Were
Speaker 2: they were the bodies like hanging?
Speaker 1: They weren't hanging per se. They were sitted seated on
Speaker 1: the ground is what Barry was in his position of
Speaker 1: so think sitting cross legged and Honey was laying on
Speaker 1: her side. I'm not sure if she was supported somewhat
Speaker 1: by the belt and Sam was Barry. But their bodies
Speaker 1: were on the ground in some sort of fashion with
Speaker 1: some sort of weight being held up by the belt
Speaker 1: tied to the railing.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it just it's I guess that's hard for
Speaker 2: me to believe that it was suicide. I just I mean,
Speaker 2: who knows how a person would go about doing that,
Speaker 2: I guess, But it doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like it seems like they would either I don't know,
Speaker 2: shoot themselves or take drugs or something. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that seems peculiar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people were quite frustrated with this
Speaker 1: suicide thought of potential love it. They didn't think it
Speaker 1: made sense either. And as I mentioned, like the relatives
Speaker 1: were just like no, like they had no reason to
Speaker 1: commit this suicide or anything. Right, Like Barry didn't show
Speaker 1: any signs of like instability. He was like working with
Speaker 1: his business NonStop, and Honey was going forward with these
Speaker 1: donations and projects, all these sort of thing. It was
Speaker 1: just yeah, she was known to be warm, friendly. None
Speaker 1: of it made any sort of sense, even talking to
Speaker 1: some of the neighbors. She was often seen walking and
Speaker 1: chatting with neighbors in the neighborhood. It just, yeah, it
Speaker 1: didn't make any sense consider a suicide.
Speaker 2: You don't fully know ever, what's going behind on behind closed.
Speaker 1: Doors, right, that's true. That's true. Now. One intriguing detail
Speaker 1: did come to light though, that kind of helped maybe
Speaker 1: potentially point the investigation in another direction other than potential suicide,
Speaker 1: was that the couple had put their home on the
Speaker 1: market for sale just weeks before their death. This sparked
Speaker 1: a flurry of new theories. I mean, because there's countless
Speaker 1: theories out there on this case, but some speculated that
Speaker 1: the sale process had inadvertently opened the door to danger,
Speaker 1: like the homeless for sale, bringing in strangers, potential buyers,
Speaker 1: possible criminals who were like scouting the place sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Oh right, dang, I never went there, but yeah, it's
Speaker 2: very big possibility.
Speaker 1: Others theorized that the Shermans might have been hiding something
Speaker 1: selling the property and an attempt to distance themselves from
Speaker 1: whatever troubles they're trying to hide. They're trying to move on.
Speaker 1: Maybe right if someone figured out where they lived and
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, we can't be here, or who knows what,
Speaker 1: maybe they buried a body in planters in the yard
Speaker 1: or something. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Well, when you said that it was
Speaker 2: for sale, it did seem a little bit odd to me,
Speaker 2: But who knows. People buy and sell different stuff all
Speaker 2: the time, right.
Speaker 1: Well exactly, and like the realtor handling their estate and everything,
Speaker 1: or their a state, their home, whatever you want to say.
Speaker 1: They quickly helped dismiss the speculation on like the sale
Speaker 1: being for a reason of like getting out of there.
Speaker 1: Apparently the Shermans were just looking to downsize move to
Speaker 1: a more modern home, so the realtor was kind of
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, that's that's that's malarchy. Soon came the
Speaker 1: critical developments of the autopsy results. Forensic experts confirmed that
Speaker 1: both Berry and Honey had died from quote ligature neck compression,
Speaker 1: which is basically Yeah, they were exphyxiated, right, they were choked.
Speaker 1: This finding confirmed that the grim nature of the death
Speaker 1: also deepened, like all the mysteries around this, And strangely,
Speaker 1: there were no significant signs of a struggle on their
Speaker 1: bodies though, either, which is something very unusual in the
Speaker 1: case of homicides. So if you're considering there is no
Speaker 1: signs of a struggle, there's no signs of forced entry.
Speaker 1: That does lend a little bit more to the theory
Speaker 1: of suicide. However, how the bodies were found it kind
Speaker 1: of contradicts that suicide because I mean, it's not impossible.
Speaker 1: It does happen, But hanging oneself from a low thing
Speaker 1: like that, when you have your your sitting on the ground,
Speaker 1: it's not probable.
Speaker 2: Well, it gives you opportunity to act. Say, I feel
Speaker 2: like a lot of people they I don't know, they'll
Speaker 2: do like jump off a bridge and as they're like
Speaker 2: going down, they regret it, yeah, immediately, So it gives
Speaker 2: them the opportunity to change their mind.
Speaker 1: Right Exactly, people do commit suicide as they do self
Speaker 1: delete in that in that manner. So I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's not possible, it's just a very unlikely way people
Speaker 1: do it well.
Speaker 2: And didn't honey have bruising on her face?
Speaker 1: She did have bruising on their face. And you remember
Speaker 1: that their sweaters were pulled or their jackets were pulled
Speaker 1: in the way that it was, you know, restricting them.
Speaker 1: It was like binding them right right. Yeah. There were however,
Speaker 1: some minor scratches on their hands and faces, which experts
Speaker 1: suggests may have been the result of brief resistance. But
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell for sure. Okay, the autopsy findings,
Speaker 1: you know, added a lot of weight to different theories
Speaker 1: and everything, but yeah, also just raised a lot more
Speaker 1: questions and who knows, right, But it was determined that
Speaker 1: the Shermans had likely died on December thirteenth, a day
Speaker 1: or two before the bodies were discovered. This timeline gave
Speaker 1: investigators a clear starting point and actually began piecing together
Speaker 1: some events leading up to the crime. Now, naturally, the
Speaker 1: police turned their attention to people surrounding the Sherman's life,
Speaker 1: focusing on Barry's extensive business dealings. But over the years,
Speaker 1: his aggressive tactics tactics or I can't talk today in
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry had earned him quite the reputation as
Speaker 1: a ruthless competitor kind of As we already discussed, his company, Apotex,
Speaker 1: was often embroiled in high stakes legal battles, particularly with
Speaker 1: larger pharmaceutical firms. So we're not talking just individual against individual.
Speaker 1: We're talking large company versus large company CEO, pissing off ceo.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, like people who have money and exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I feel like the majority of times was like
Speaker 2: murder cases, the list isn't huge, right of suspects, but
Speaker 2: in this case it seems like it really is.
Speaker 1: It almost seems endless. And the question right now for investigators,
Speaker 1: could corporate rivalries actually escalate to this violence? I mean,
Speaker 1: we see this sort of shit in movies all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm not high up in the corporate ladder in the
Speaker 1: real world, so I don't know, but it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: far fetched to me from what Hollywood tells me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very true.
Speaker 1: Now, Barry's corporate life wasn't the only source of tension,
Speaker 1: though his family relationship was long fraught with drama. Several
Speaker 1: cousins have been locked in bitter lawsuits against Barry for years,
Speaker 1: accusing him of cutting them out of their rightful share
Speaker 1: of a family fortune. If you remember, he purchased out
Speaker 1: his uncle's business. Right, so those kids from that uncle, right,
Speaker 1: his cousins like, hey, that's our family business that you
Speaker 1: came in and like swooped.
Speaker 2: Now, I don't well he purchased it.
Speaker 1: I don't know how the whole like acquisition to that
Speaker 1: company came in. I don't know if he purchased stit.
Speaker 1: Maybe had a deal because hey, family uphule. Maybe the
Speaker 1: uncle passed on more than he should. Who knows, right,
Speaker 1: But either way, these cousins felt that they were owed
Speaker 1: at least part of that company or part of his
Speaker 1: dang fortune.
Speaker 2: Man money just it just it brings the worstone people sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this this legal battle spanned decades, and as
Speaker 1: investigators dug deeper, they couldn't ignore the possibility of the
Speaker 1: roots of this crime that might actually stand within these
Speaker 1: grudges as well. Now, what made this case even more
Speaker 1: baffling was the lack of clear evidence pointing in any
Speaker 1: sort of direction. Now, despite Toronto's police launching a massive investigation,
Speaker 1: they're handling of the case faced harsh criticism right from
Speaker 1: the start see earlier on. Authorities leaned into the theory
Speaker 1: of the murder, suicide or suicide. Right, So we're thinking
Speaker 1: either one of them killed one and then suicide themselves
Speaker 1: or double suicide, right, So who knows. But that was
Speaker 1: one of the theories that they were working with from
Speaker 1: the very beginning, but under mounting public pressure, the police
Speaker 1: were forced to rethink their theory. A month into the investigation,
Speaker 1: they revived their stance, officially declaring the deaths as targeted
Speaker 1: double homicide. This changed the entire direction of the case,
Speaker 1: so many believe, though unfortunately this change came way too late.
Speaker 1: See on the day Berry and Honey's bodies were discovered,
Speaker 1: numerous people had entered their homes, their home, not homes,
Speaker 1: home relatives, police officers, real estate agents, journalists all were
Speaker 1: in the home contaminating the crime scene. Because the police
Speaker 1: are looking at this as hey, suicide, right, but still.
Speaker 2: Why the hell are their people in there?
Speaker 1: Well it's not a crime scene.
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess.
Speaker 1: So now a month later it's officially a crime.
Speaker 2: Signe o shitka, that's not good.
Speaker 1: No, it's not. So anything that might have been actually
Speaker 1: vital clues was now potentially compromised, right yep. So adding
Speaker 1: to the complexity was the sheer size of the Sherman
Speaker 1: residents as well. And don't get me wrong, I do
Speaker 1: want to clarify. I'm sure that they were investigating the
Speaker 1: house as somewhat of a crime scene, but I don't
Speaker 1: think they were fully, like very serious about it because
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, it's probably suicide, you know what I mean. Now,
Speaker 1: the house itself was, as I mentioned earlier, twelve thousand
Speaker 1: square feet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or earlier when you said Holmes, I was like, well,
Speaker 2: it could be a few homes.
Speaker 1: Sure, it could be maybe there's a pool house in
Speaker 1: the back or something. And I don't know, but twelve
Speaker 1: thousand square feet has dozens of rooms, and it makes
Speaker 1: it incredibly challenging to comb through this entire place for evidence.
Speaker 1: Every corner, every surface, every item had to be carefully
Speaker 1: examined for traces of the perpetrator. But the odds of
Speaker 1: covering anything and finding this just diminished with each passing day.
Speaker 1: The Sherman's home also had multiple entrances for someone to
Speaker 1: enter and at the home. To top it all off,
Speaker 1: Friends and family also noted that Barry and Honey were
Speaker 1: the kind of people who wouldn't hesitate to open the
Speaker 1: door if someone came knocking and asking for help. Okay,
Speaker 1: oh man, yeah, so that only wid widens the possibility
Speaker 1: for more suspects. Now, Barry in particular had a history
Speaker 1: of dealing with some lesson savory business associates. We talked
Speaker 1: kind of a bit more about how he pissed some
Speaker 1: people off, for sure, but yeah, there was also some
Speaker 1: people who were a little bit less and savory potential
Speaker 1: potentially individuals with criminal history but dealing in the business
Speaker 1: side of things, still questionable backgrounds will say that. So
Speaker 1: his aggressive business practices often left others feeling this angry
Speaker 1: feeling towards him, as we know, right. Barry himself even
Speaker 1: speculated at one point about the risks that he had faced.
Speaker 1: In an interview with Jeffrey Robinson for the book in
Speaker 1: the late nineteen nineties, Sorry for a Book in the
Speaker 1: late teen nineteen nineties, he chillingly stated, quote, for a
Speaker 1: thousand bucks paid to the right person, you can probably
Speaker 1: get someone killed. Oh my gosh, perhaps I'm surprised that
Speaker 1: hasn't happened. Okay, so he's surprised he hasn't been fucking
Speaker 1: killed in a hit yet.
Speaker 2: Well, thousand bucks, say, for a freaking life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean that was in nineteen ninety to
Speaker 1: start with, still inflation, maybe that's five thousand today. Who
Speaker 1: knows five thousand to the right person, might you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, at the time of the murders, Barry had recently
Speaker 1: also emerged victorious in illegal battle against his cousins one
Speaker 1: we've talked about earlier. The court ruled that they owed
Speaker 1: him thirty thousand dollars dollars in legal fees, which was
Speaker 1: far less than he had actually sought initially.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like the cousins owed him money. Correct, Oh, okay,
Speaker 2: that is not gonna go well because they took him
Speaker 2: to court. Yeah, this battle lasted years. He won the battle,
Speaker 2: and now it's like, okay, you owe me some restitutions
Speaker 2: here because you know, I've been sitting in court for
Speaker 2: years fighting this when I was in the right this
Speaker 2: whole time. You cause this headache for me. You got
Speaker 2: to pay for my shit? Well, so, and like the
Speaker 2: cousins had their own legal fees that they had to pay,
Speaker 2: and now they have to pay this guy's either clearly
Speaker 2: not enjoying.
Speaker 1: So that's yes, And who's going to be able to
Speaker 1: afford it? More likely the billionaire.
Speaker 2: Probably well yeah, and there, Yeah, I could imagine they
Speaker 2: would just be like pissed.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, honestly, I do want to clarify. I don't
Speaker 1: think he has like a billion dollars in his bank
Speaker 1: or had. It's more more likely that he had like
Speaker 1: you know, stocks.
Speaker 2: Investment tied up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't think he has all that cash
Speaker 1: on hand, willy nilly, but I'm sure he.
Speaker 2: Has a chunk of it though.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, one of his cousins, Carrie Winter, from this lawsuit,
Speaker 1: actually openly admitted that he himself had the motive and
Speaker 1: the opportunity to kill Barry. He openly admits he had
Speaker 1: the motive and opportunity unity to do it.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it wouldn't take like, I mean, anyone
Speaker 2: could see that though.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Now, Carrie set his own hours working
Speaker 1: as a construction supervisor, which investigators noted gave him quite
Speaker 1: the flexibility. However, even though he made a bold statement
Speaker 1: like that, he was eventually clear suspicion through some solid alibis. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: apparently he was watching Netflix Peaky Blinders and then also
Speaker 1: went to a cocaine recovery addicts, meaning.
Speaker 2: Oh, Wow. Okay, So okay.
Speaker 1: I think it's very funny that, yeah, he was specifically
Speaker 1: watching Peaky Blinders.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean I guess, yeah, Like, okay, last
Speaker 2: night we watched a shit ton of Netflix. We stayed
Speaker 2: up way too late, watching the shit.
Speaker 1: Squid Game season two, the entire thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it's interesting, like we would have a
Speaker 2: perfect alibi, like clearly we were doing that, but also
Speaker 2: you could have shit playing in your home and not
Speaker 2: be there.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's true, right, that's true. But either way,
Speaker 1: he was most likely at the the cocaine thingy, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Now, Barry's financial situation was also
Speaker 1: raising some red flags. Yes, he was a billionaire, and
Speaker 1: we just kind of covered this a little bit. You know,
Speaker 1: probably a lot of money tied up in different things. Right, So,
Speaker 1: just two weeks before the killings, Barry had asked his
Speaker 1: son Jonathan, to repay him a few million dollars tens
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars in fact, that he had borrowed
Speaker 1: for his storage business. So Jonathan explained that this was
Speaker 1: to help his dad through a tight financial spot. Whatever
Speaker 1: that exactly means hasn't exactly been released. But despite this
Speaker 1: Barry had reassured his son that he would continue supporting
Speaker 1: him once his financial situation improved.
Speaker 2: Okay, so maybe there even was bigger reason to them
Speaker 2: selling their home, which I had thought about, like maybe
Speaker 2: they needed some some money.
Speaker 1: Like freed up potentially that's very very likely, honestly. I mean,
Speaker 1: who's to say you need a seventy thousand dollars home
Speaker 1: or sorry, seven million? Why did I say seventy thousand?
Speaker 1: That's way off a seven million dollar home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if they sell that and then maybe they
Speaker 2: buy a home that's two million, like that, he frees
Speaker 2: up so much.
Speaker 1: Money, exactly, money that you know what, you could probably
Speaker 1: make more millions on if you invest it and know
Speaker 1: what you're doing, which he clearly does. So Jonathan and
Speaker 1: Barry were reportedly close, both personally and professionally, and you know,
Speaker 1: came this kind of money transfer situation, and that's what
Speaker 1: Jonathan's saying is, Yeah, tight financial spot, which opens up
Speaker 1: a whole nother avenue of potential. You know what happens.
Speaker 1: Then came another shocking revelation. Court documents released in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two revealed that Barry owed one billion another b
Speaker 1: in there billion to various companies at the time of
Speaker 1: his death, debts that he reportedly decided he was not
Speaker 1: going to repay.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah, so is he actually a billionaire if
Speaker 2: he owes that much frickin' money?
Speaker 1: Well, no shit. You know, his refusal to honor such
Speaker 1: substantial debts very well could have angered some powerful people,
Speaker 1: which again just opens the door for more suspects. In
Speaker 1: November of twenty twenty, three, years after the murders took place,
Speaker 1: the Toronto Police announced that they had identified a quote
Speaker 1: person of interest. However, just two days later they clarified
Speaker 1: that this could refer to one individual or multiple, which
Speaker 1: just put a big old question mark right back on it.
Speaker 2: Okay, because the.
Speaker 1: Police are like, we've identified someone of interest. Actually it
Speaker 1: could be one person or many, or we don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, what all right? So you don't know?
Speaker 2: It didn't It doesn't seem like they really did narrow
Speaker 2: down on someone.
Speaker 1: Not really. So A year later, in December twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: the investigation saw a potential breakthrough when police did release
Speaker 1: a short video clip found from a security camera. Now
Speaker 1: the twenty second clip showed an una identified person dressed
Speaker 1: in all dark clothing walking down a snowy sidewalk in
Speaker 1: the Sherman's upscale neighborhood. Detective Brandon Price stated that the
Speaker 1: individual's appearance kind of coincided with the estimated time of
Speaker 1: the murders. So like, this dude or lady or whatever,
Speaker 1: this person is walking through this neighborhood kind of looking
Speaker 1: a little suspicious right around the time we believe that
Speaker 1: they were killed. Now, despite the release of this footage
Speaker 1: to the public, this person was never identified. Okay, while
Speaker 1: it seemed like police were struggling to find a direction
Speaker 1: to go at this point, Honey Sherman's sister, Mary Mary Shetman,
Speaker 1: believe murders might have been a quote statement. She believed
Speaker 1: it was tied to the couple's faith and their political beliefs.
Speaker 1: See Mary pointed to the Sherman's loyal support for Israel
Speaker 1: and Honey's outspoken Jewish identity. Honey had apparently made previous
Speaker 1: comments that some might consider politically incorrect, allegedly particularly regarding
Speaker 1: religious extreme extremists extremism extremism. Mary even told police six
Speaker 1: months before her murder, Honey had attended a lecture about
Speaker 1: cutting off funding for Muslim fundamentalist groups.
Speaker 2: Hmm okay.
Speaker 1: Now, Honey also reportedly believed that severing these financial channels
Speaker 1: could weaken terrorist organizations, but also, according to Mary, Honey
Speaker 1: also believed that Barry might have been financially supporting the
Speaker 1: efforts aligned with her opposing cause, so they might have
Speaker 1: opposing views, supporting opposing groups. This is all allegedly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, this is just a mess.
Speaker 1: It is a mess.
Speaker 2: It's just like too many options here.
Speaker 1: Well that's the problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like this would be I feel like this would
Speaker 2: just this is the worst puzzle to have to to
Speaker 2: work on if you're like an investigator. Yep, it's not
Speaker 2: fun at all. Like this just seems so not fun.
Speaker 1: Nope. Now, another theory mentions Barry's lobbying efforts, which were
Speaker 1: apparently nothing short of relentless, often pushing him at odds
Speaker 1: with political leaders and institutions. If it isn't enough for
Speaker 1: him to be tying up with other companies, institutions and
Speaker 1: CEOs all this sort of thing, he's also getting his
Speaker 1: hand not only in these other fundamentalist groups and stuff,
Speaker 1: but also in literal federal political parties. He wasn't afraid
Speaker 1: to take a stand and his influence stretched far beyond
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry. One big example was his opposition to
Speaker 1: a law passed by Prime Minister Brian mulroney's government which
Speaker 1: extended patent protections for brand name drug makers. Barry believed
Speaker 1: this was bad news for smaller generic drug companies like Apotex,
Speaker 1: and pushed hard to fight against it. When his effort
Speaker 1: didn't succeed, he switched gears and backed Jean Cretchien and
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party, who promised to revise the law if
Speaker 1: they won in the nineteen ninety three election. So he
Speaker 1: basically pulls out of this party and begins supporting this party.
Speaker 1: He's going to then revise the law when they're in power.
Speaker 1: And now he's putting money flow and of course, you know,
Speaker 1: influence into pushing the Liberal Party that jankre Chen was representing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, politics is a bit of a scary game too, Hey, Yes.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what's going on. He's getting very heavy
Speaker 1: in this very scary game. His lobbying didn't just stop
Speaker 1: at these politics. He donated millions to the University of
Speaker 1: Toronto for a research center, but when the university's efforts
Speaker 1: to challenge the patent law fell flat Berry pulled his funding.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, yeah, okay, that's not good. No, so he Okay,
Speaker 2: I just have to say he is like like very
Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to say emotional, but
Speaker 2: like he like isn't afraid to go out there and
Speaker 2: like speak his mind and piss anyone off.
Speaker 1: Really all definitely not not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, he's like he doesn't back down.
Speaker 1: No, he's he's going to go for what he wants
Speaker 1: and he doesn't care. Yes, he's going to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now.
Speaker 1: At the time of his death, Barry was caught up
Speaker 1: in yet another political scandal. As a registered lobbyist, he
Speaker 1: was under investigation for organizing a twenty fifteen fundraiser for
Speaker 1: Justin Trudeau, an event that allegedly broke Canada's lobbying rules.
Speaker 1: The investigation suggested Barry might have violated the Lobbyist Code
Speaker 1: of Conduct, which could have led to a five year
Speaker 1: lobbying ban. Instead of waiting for the verdict, Barry made
Speaker 1: headlines by filing a lawsuit in twenty sixteen to shut
Speaker 1: down the investigation. Needless to say, he had strong political
Speaker 1: presence and made a lot of enemies, many of which
Speaker 1: would have had a motive to want him dead.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, I couldn't imagine having this many people that
Speaker 2: could like potentially choose to end your life.
Speaker 1: Right, that's terrible. Like the list literally seems endless. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like where do you even start? Yeah, that's like being
Speaker 1: like in a dollar store with a million dollars you
Speaker 1: can buy one thing or like what.
Speaker 2: Are you could just buy the whole good?
Speaker 1: Like what are you gonna do? Like do you do this?
Speaker 1: Do you want this? Like?
Speaker 2: Well, because these are also like powerful people too that
Speaker 2: they're dealing with that, I feel like, if you know,
Speaker 2: did have a hand in this, could very easily not
Speaker 2: have it.
Speaker 1: Show for sure, right for sure? And even if they
Speaker 1: were to find any sort of evidence, you think it's
Speaker 1: going to be that powerful person that's going to link
Speaker 1: to or do you think it's just gonna be the
Speaker 1: hit man they hired?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 1: So Now, unfortunately, the mystery surrounding the death of Barry
Speaker 1: and Honey Sherman remains unsolved to this day.
Speaker 2: Shit, I was just waiting. I was like, no, no,
Speaker 2: this is gonna be solved. This has to be solved.
Speaker 1: But god damn, despite years of destigation, countless theories, and
Speaker 1: I mean, countless theories and a long list of possible motives,
Speaker 1: from corporate rivals to family disputes and political tensions. No
Speaker 1: suspects have been named, not even a suspect.
Speaker 2: Well, and I mean, I guess there's even still the
Speaker 2: potential that it, like it was a suicide too, Like
Speaker 2: that's not fully I mean, it's kind of ruled out,
Speaker 2: but I guess it's like still a possibility, right.
Speaker 1: It is a possibility. It's I think just low chance of. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't add up to be a suicide.
Speaker 2: Dang. I cannot believe that someone got away with this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone kidding me. Someone wanted them dead and someone
Speaker 1: got exactly what they wanted.
Speaker 2: Wow, and there's still this out there living their life.
Speaker 2: I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like it would probably have well,
Speaker 2: oh man, I was just gonna say, I feel like
Speaker 2: it was would probably be a hit man of sorts.
Speaker 2: But then like they they I also think that they
Speaker 2: may have known the person too, so frick I don't know, damn.
Speaker 2: I In situations like this, I feel like when cases
Speaker 2: like this aren't solved, that they were just like all
Speaker 2: doomed because if anything should be solved, like if you
Speaker 2: think a billionaire's murder could would be solved, right, right.
Speaker 1: Because I mean the family is gonna probably have the
Speaker 1: money to throw at you know, private investigators and all
Speaker 1: this stuff to help solve it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they would themselves you think, have like protection,
Speaker 2: more protection than you know, the average joe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but here we are.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: Clearly it shows that despite money, despite power, despite whatever
Speaker 1: situation you're in, we're no different than than each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, huh that one. That one is. I mean
Speaker 2: I can kind of understand why I didn't hear about it, because,
Speaker 2: like it's kind of a bummer that it's not solved either, right,
Speaker 2: Like I think if there was, if it got solved
Speaker 2: and there was someone that went to jail and like
Speaker 2: through court and stuff, we would have ended up hearing about.
Speaker 1: This more so probably. So I do have to say
Speaker 1: this is probably one of my least favorite cases I've covered.
Speaker 2: Well, I also have to say this would be a
Speaker 2: shit show to research, like that is the whole time
Speaker 2: you're presenting him, Like, thank God, I do not pick this.
Speaker 1: There's books, there's documentaries, there's TV series, there's article after
Speaker 1: article after there is so much on this and all
Speaker 1: of it is theories because there is not an ounce
Speaker 1: of fucking evidence out of this.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Hey yeah. The only evidence that I was actually able
Speaker 1: to come across, the only actual evidence was what came
Speaker 1: out of the autopsy and the video footage. That's it.
Speaker 1: That's all I found for physical, actual tangible evidence.
Speaker 2: You have to wonder if they had, you know, on
Speaker 2: day one, had this labeled as a home aside that
Speaker 2: or like a murder or whatever, if if those results
Speaker 2: would it change, you know, if they were if they
Speaker 2: would have been able to find the evidence, or if
Speaker 2: even regardless of that, if it still would be an
Speaker 2: unsolved thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's hard to say because honestly, like
Speaker 1: in a in a mansion like that, in like billionaires,
Speaker 1: they have.
Speaker 2: Staff, right, m right, Yeah, I never thought of that.
Speaker 1: So you have to think of the fact. Okay, what
Speaker 1: if the hit man, you know, got to the staff
Speaker 1: and figured out how to get in, or became a
Speaker 1: staff member briefly, or was was a staff member before,
Speaker 1: or who knows right and just knew how to get
Speaker 1: in the home, huh, Or what if it was you know,
Speaker 1: someone who the hit man was posing as, like oh,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a representative of this individual for this lawsuit.
Speaker 1: This fucking can we talk to you for a minute? Sure,
Speaker 1: come on in, and then killed. Like, there's so many
Speaker 1: possibilities on how you can access their home because by
Speaker 1: the sounds of it, Barry and Honey were not about
Speaker 1: to be the kind of people who like are on
Speaker 1: the other side of an intercolm and be like go away.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But it also like they were deceased for like
Speaker 2: a couple of days, two days approximately, without getting noticed.
Speaker 2: So that doesn't make any sense either.
Speaker 1: Well, I that's one part I didn't actually research, but
Speaker 1: I do know that there was like a timeline with
Speaker 1: the realtor thinking that they were supposed to be going
Speaker 1: out of town or something like that, because when they
Speaker 1: showed the home, they weren't supposed to be there because
Speaker 1: they were off doing something. Okay, so they weren't. It
Speaker 1: was a shock that they were at the home because
Speaker 1: they weren't supposed to be there, right, Okay, So when
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, you know, the house is quiet for
Speaker 1: two days or whatever like that because they're not supposed
Speaker 1: to be there.
Speaker 2: Perfect time to show it and like, yeah, not have
Speaker 2: people around, I imagine this is still kind of being like,
Speaker 2: it's you know, maybe there's still probably people to this.
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, No, this is an ongoing investigation for sure.
Speaker 1: It's not a closed case.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, sorry, I'm just like processing this. It's just
Speaker 2: this one is kind of just mind blowing. This one
Speaker 2: makes me think a lot.
Speaker 1: This is why this is probably my least favorite case,
Speaker 1: or at least one of because I love a mystery case.
Speaker 1: I love the thought of, you know, what could have happened.
Speaker 1: But the problem with this is there is too many possibilities,
Speaker 1: like we couldn't even fathom coming up with every angle.
Speaker 1: It's just a jumbled mess of Hey, someone didn't like them,
Speaker 1: someone killed them, yeah, and then it's just random theory
Speaker 1: after random.
Speaker 2: Fury, endless possibilities. Really it is.
Speaker 1: It's an un I'm not saying it's an unsolvable case,
Speaker 1: but with the information that is given to us at
Speaker 1: the public right now, it's an unsolvable, un fathomable situation.
Speaker 2: Like a needle in a haystack stock stack.
Speaker 1: What is the saying needle in a haystack?
Speaker 2: Okay, I did get it right.
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like it's not even a needle in
Speaker 1: a haystack. I feel it is because I feel like
Speaker 1: we're I feel like the police are doing a needle
Speaker 1: in a haystack. That's what I feel like they're doing
Speaker 1: because they have, you know, evidence that they're not released
Speaker 1: in the public or whatever right for what we're given.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're given a picture of a haystack
Speaker 1: and expected to find the needle. That's what I feel like,
Speaker 1: And that's why I don't like this case. It's because
Speaker 1: it's like, what do you expect to come of this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard, Like your mind wants to go about, like, oh,
Speaker 2: through all the possibilities, but it's just it's like impossible. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so huh, well, good job researching that one. I'm glad
Speaker 2: that that it was you and not me.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. It's an interesting case. Like I say,
Speaker 1: it's not one of my favorites, but it's definitely an
Speaker 1: interesting case that piqued my interest and it was still
Speaker 1: worth sharing.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, totally worth sharing. Its just I feel like
Speaker 2: I would to take me forever. I would have been
Speaker 2: all over the place.
Speaker 1: So oh so was I? So was I?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: You actually, if going through this episode, you might have
Speaker 1: heard me being all over the place because my research,
Speaker 1: my brain, everything was all over the place and it
Speaker 1: was really hard to put together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it would be so well. Anyway, you did
Speaker 2: a good job.
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate that. If you guys want to check
Speaker 1: out our links, we have a big description of this podcast.
Speaker 1: You can go ahead and click on that and take
Speaker 1: a look at what we have. You check out our Facebook,
Speaker 1: you could check out our YouTube, Instagram, yeah we got that.
Speaker 1: We even have a website. Whatever you want, check it out.
Speaker 1: You can sign up for Patreon and you can get
Speaker 1: exclusive behind the scene content. You can support us. We're
Speaker 1: an indie show. We don't have a big corporation. Who's
Speaker 1: you know, pulling the strings and telling us what to do.
Speaker 1: It's us. We live in our tiny home. We research,
Speaker 1: we produce, we do it all. So any of the
Speaker 1: support you do by going to those links, following us,
Speaker 1: listening again, you know, giving us a review, that all
Speaker 1: helps us immensely. And if you have done some of
Speaker 1: those things, thank you so much. If you're listening still
Speaker 1: while I'm still rambling right now, thank you so so.
Speaker 2: There are some people that listen to the bitter end
Speaker 2: just to hear every last second, and I know which
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you guys know, we still get messages of
Speaker 1: people saying barbecue sauce occasionally, like to this day.
Speaker 2: We do. It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I can't even remember how that exactly came to be.
Speaker 2: I think it was at the very end of an episode.
Speaker 1: I think it was the end, but it was like,
Speaker 1: if you're still listening, just message us and say barbecue sauce.
Speaker 1: And we still get people doing that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, anyway, Happy New Year. We hope it's a
Speaker 2: good one. We hope you stay safe and until next episode,
Speaker 2: stay with it.