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Speaker 2: I'm John Favrerum, I'm Dan Pfeifer, I'm John love.
Speaker 1: It, Tommy Petre. We are coming to you from the
Speaker 1: Obama Presidential Center in Chicago. I think this is the
Speaker 1: first ever podcast recorded from the Obama Presidential Center. I
Speaker 1: just made that up. Yeah, but writing Library, I mean
Speaker 1: it opened today, So that's what I'm saying. It open today,
Speaker 1: So I think that we Yeah, how are you? It's
Speaker 1: my nice and it's reallyank you. This is the president
Speaker 1: beautiful Presidential Reading Room in the branch of the Chicago
Speaker 1: Public Library. Don't see our book? Yeah, I should probably
Speaker 1: donate one. You see Dan's book, any book.
Speaker 2: I've heard rumors that our books are in here, but
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 3: Oh, I see a Life of Pie.
Speaker 1: Anyway, we'll come back to this. I see what it takes.
Speaker 2: Oh, I see my book right there.
Speaker 3: Oh it's over from what it takes now.
Speaker 1: If you're just listening on the audio, I know this
Speaker 1: is riveting us looking around at the books.
Speaker 4: Hey, let's let's hey, let's stop navel gazing about the books,
Speaker 4: start navel gazing about the event.
Speaker 1: So we just came from the event and we just
Speaker 1: toured the museum for the first time. We're calling a
Speaker 1: museum the center, the Center, the Center Library. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I think it's it's the Obama Presidential Center is
Speaker 1: the official name. And we just we just took a
Speaker 1: little tour. Would you guys think not of the event,
Speaker 1: of the of what we just saw on all the
Speaker 1: all the floors, Stan.
Speaker 2: It's I mean, I would very emotional for us to
Speaker 2: walk through it and see from the beginning of the
Speaker 2: campaign through the White House, the good moments, the bad moments.
Speaker 2: But it's I mean, it's really it's very very powerful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. What how did you feel about
Speaker 1: what you tried so hard to stop from happening?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so poorly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think that the beginning of the museum about the
Speaker 4: ways in which I couldn't prevent this from happening. And
Speaker 4: as you move up through the floors, I've become more
Speaker 4: and more excited to be a part of it.
Speaker 1: Every time we went by an exhibit, and wanted to
Speaker 1: like take a picture there love it would say like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is stolen valor.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's before Yeah, the as you get into the administration,
Speaker 4: then I feel like I can celebrate. But when it's
Speaker 4: you know, the sign sealed, delivered speech in New Hampshire,
Speaker 4: if you're like, well, it's kind of on another side
Speaker 4: of that.
Speaker 3: But it was weird.
Speaker 2: Me just started yelling about caucus rules. That was strange.
Speaker 4: Yeah, super delegates, they're legitimate, the super delegates. It's part
Speaker 4: of the process. Respect the process, but it's strange to
Speaker 4: see something set up. It's great to experience it for us,
Speaker 4: but it isn't really set up for us. It's set
Speaker 4: up to kind of take people through something they might
Speaker 4: not know about, and it is set up for a
Speaker 4: longer timeline. It's set up for people to experience over
Speaker 4: a very long time. And it is interesting to see
Speaker 4: things you experienced written in just such a declarative, past tense,
Speaker 4: like this is what happened, this was the history of.
Speaker 1: This night is history, and it's history.
Speaker 3: We're so old.
Speaker 2: Our jobs in a museum.
Speaker 1: Yeah that is true, Tommy, what you think I mean?
Speaker 1: The museum's amazing. Everyone's just come check it out. I mean,
Speaker 1: Michelle Obama talked about how they wanted it to be interactive.
Speaker 1: So there's lots of exhibits and speeches and stories of
Speaker 1: individual people, but you can shoot hoops and there's a
Speaker 1: We're literally in a library where you can take out
Speaker 1: a book or you can hang out to a picnic.
Speaker 1: I think the thing that's been amazing for me and
Speaker 1: emotional is just all the people we've gotten to just
Speaker 1: run into. It's like, when I go back to DC,
Speaker 1: you run into a lot of people, and a lot
Speaker 1: of the time you don't want to run into them. Here,
Speaker 1: I've run into a lot of people and every time
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm so excited to see this person. It's
Speaker 1: a blast from the past. Like Hannah and I we're
Speaker 1: dealing with a snaffoo on our bracelets to get in
Speaker 1: and we ended up in a ten minute line behind
Speaker 1: adamal McRaven and I was like, Oh, Hannah, this is
Speaker 1: the guy who did the bin laden operation. Like that's
Speaker 1: a conversation they don't have every day.
Speaker 3: His bracelet was also incorrect.
Speaker 1: That was he was not allowed into the event. Our
Speaker 1: friend Joshua Dubois who's like, we've known forever who used
Speaker 1: to play pranks in the office, and one time changed
Speaker 1: it so my outlook every time I wrote the word
Speaker 1: the it auto corrected to bag of assholes. He gave
Speaker 1: the prayer and invocation. I just wanted to say that
Speaker 1: when Tommy realized this, he didn't think it was a prank.
Speaker 1: And Tommy's just typing emails and he's like, we're in
Speaker 1: the Senate office at the time. It's two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: He's like, every time I write an email, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden just says bag of assholes. It's like, I
Speaker 1: don't I'm sure. I was like, almost positive I didn't
Speaker 1: write bag of assholes in this.
Speaker 4: How are you?
Speaker 3: We're not more sure.
Speaker 4: It's like when mad Befoters thought that she was hacked
Speaker 4: because she had spilled water on her space bar.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was the first story I thought of. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, and now he's the pastor at this event.
Speaker 1: Josh walked up to me last night. I said, what's up,
Speaker 1: you bag of assholes? Anyway, Eddie Vedder was here. He
Speaker 1: did a musical number with some thirteen to fourteen year
Speaker 1: old kids. They composed it, they put it together they
Speaker 1: played it in front of four presidents of the United States.
Speaker 1: Like the whole has just been it's very cool and
Speaker 1: inspiring and a home game for us.
Speaker 2: The other thing about the museum just that I think
Speaker 2: is really noteworthy, is it is about like how people
Speaker 2: can learn from what Obama did, what people are on
Speaker 2: Obama did, and do similar things going forward. Like the
Speaker 2: whole idea is to inspire people to take their community,
Speaker 2: their country, their lives in their own hands and try
Speaker 2: to bring change like that. The entire thing, from top
Speaker 2: to bottom and every place of this is about like
Speaker 2: the core.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a very young ex president, as he mentioned today,
Speaker 1: not that young, but young enough, and also started as
Speaker 1: a community organizer here in Chicago. And so I do
Speaker 1: think that they were very you know, the the intention
Speaker 1: of the Whole Museum or in the Whole Center from
Speaker 1: the beginning was that it wasn't just like somewhere we
Speaker 1: could walk around and see exhibits or just like a
Speaker 1: traditional presidential library, but that it would be a place,
Speaker 1: be a community center where like people can go be
Speaker 1: inspired to you know, run for off or help their
Speaker 1: community or And so I really think they achieved that.
Speaker 1: I love the museum. I mean I went I first
Speaker 1: game Tuesday with Emily and the kids, brought Charlie and
Speaker 1: Teddy and they lasted a couple hours before before, Teddy
Speaker 1: had had a meltdown when he tried to eat the
Speaker 1: fake apple and the fake oval office didn't go, didn't
Speaker 1: couldn't eat it, wanted a real apple. Yeah, cried a lot.
Speaker 1: We left in there. But before that, I do think
Speaker 1: that the campaign, there's a whole level dedicated to the campaign,
Speaker 1: and it tells the whole story of the campaign from
Speaker 1: beginning to end. And the last panel after you watch
Speaker 1: the video is Grant Park. And the way they tell
Speaker 1: the Grant Park story is through newscasts from all over
Speaker 1: the world announcing that he won, and it just like
Speaker 1: interviews people in like Africa and people in Europe and
Speaker 1: people in like Selma here and just talking about what
Speaker 1: it meant to them. And I was just watching that
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, yeah, see, this is a great
Speaker 1: country and we can like this is we complain about
Speaker 1: it a lot, and there's a lot of bad things
Speaker 1: going on right now, but I'm like, this is a
Speaker 1: a great country.
Speaker 4: The uh, you know, we'll talk about the speech is more,
Speaker 4: but I was just thinking about nostalgia walking through the museum,
Speaker 4: and this a poll that came out the other day
Speaker 4: that said, which of the previous presidents do you think
Speaker 4: was did the best job? And Obama is the leading
Speaker 4: president of people who have a positive view of him
Speaker 4: in hindsight. And you walk around this museum and it
Speaker 4: has this hopeful view of the country about you know,
Speaker 4: the relationship between organizing a community and democracy, civic responsibility, empathy,
Speaker 4: and you know, the old fashioned civic virtues. And I
Speaker 4: did by myself thinking walking around, Okay, this was and
Speaker 4: is persuasive to people. And I'm leaving thinking, okay, but
Speaker 4: let's be honest. This where ope, This museum is opening
Speaker 4: at a time in which, like Trump, it's part of
Speaker 4: the speeches, it is part of this event that people
Speaker 4: are aware of what's happening in the country.
Speaker 3: And like, what are the ways in which this was
Speaker 3: not made durable after right?
Speaker 4: What are the ways in which either this vision of
Speaker 4: the country wasn't as persuasive as we hoped it would be,
Speaker 4: or we did not uphold it and use it to
Speaker 4: make the best case possible to prevent Trump from winning
Speaker 4: not once but twice. And that was also on my
Speaker 4: mind because I'm not a nostalgic person by nature, and
Speaker 4: so I was sort of stuck on that and think
Speaker 4: I was trying to like challenge myself to think, Okay,
Speaker 4: this obviously is a vision that I respect and appreciate.
Speaker 4: What are the ways in which it wasn't able to
Speaker 4: fully bring more people along after Obama was gone.
Speaker 1: It's funny that what was stuck in my head before
Speaker 1: coming here, I was thinking about it a lot, and
Speaker 1: then having I spent today listening to President Obama and
Speaker 1: Michelle and going through the center, I think that the
Speaker 1: answer is, at least their answer is that it's not
Speaker 1: ever going to be durable, like that is the whole
Speaker 1: point of not just America, but like human nature, that like,
Speaker 1: we're always going to have these moments where, you know,
Speaker 1: people's I talk about better angels, people's worst angels take
Speaker 1: over and that's in progress doesn't happen in a straight line.
Speaker 1: And so I think their answer is everyone has to
Speaker 1: just get to work right it ever has to just
Speaker 1: keep going and keep and like and don't give into
Speaker 1: like cynicism and don't you know and don't give up.
Speaker 2: And the first part Museum doesn't actually start with the
Speaker 2: Obama stories. It actually starts with the key moments in history.
Speaker 2: They're like the one we're in right now where bad
Speaker 2: things are happening, you know, whether it or where there
Speaker 2: are real problems in the country. They're be changed with
Speaker 2: the civil rights movement, the suffrage movement, all of that stuff,
Speaker 2: the labor movement, and the I think the answer to
Speaker 2: that is it's like, at every point it's not always
Speaker 2: going to be good. But every time it's been bad
Speaker 2: and we have dealt with it, it is because regular
Speaker 2: people came together, they started organizing, they started working, they
Speaker 2: started voting, and they brought change. And that we can
Speaker 2: the I think the true message of that, so we
Speaker 2: can do that again. And they didn't write like, obviously
Speaker 2: this museum was not made for the Trump era. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's going to be around for one hundred years
Speaker 2: after that. But I like, and this is like always
Speaker 2: core in what a weh I'm talking about in the
Speaker 2: Selma speech that adorns the the building itself, is that
Speaker 2: we are always going to have moments like these and
Speaker 2: we're going to have to come together to get out
Speaker 2: of them. And so you know, maybe a few years
Speaker 2: from now things will look much more like they did
Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight, and.
Speaker 1: That looked like twenty sixteen. Again, who knows.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, yeah, I think it's the idea that, yes,
Speaker 4: that is that you step back too, all right, this
Speaker 4: is this is the path of progress. Two steps forward,
Speaker 4: one step back. There are times where you where people
Speaker 4: give into their fears, in their whatever, their smallness. But
Speaker 4: part of the work of getting out of it is
Speaker 4: not just stepping back and saying we will come together
Speaker 4: and figure it out.
Speaker 3: It's like what happened?
Speaker 4: Right, Like, what are the ways in which this vision
Speaker 4: of America seemed to some people to be either like
Speaker 4: false or hollow in some way, or you know, not
Speaker 4: able to be replicated by the candidates that follow.
Speaker 1: Two things. One back to Teddy. It's really cool and
Speaker 1: a thing people probably didn't know that you could walk
Speaker 1: into the Oval office and there was a bowl of
Speaker 1: apples on the coffee table between the two couches, and
Speaker 1: people would just take them and eat them. And actually,
Speaker 1: the actual bull that was on Barack Obama's coffee table
Speaker 1: for eight years is now in this museum because our
Speaker 1: friend fary Il just had it at her house. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and now it's here. That's I think, a fun little
Speaker 1: anecdote people don't know. And two on the speeches. I mean,
Speaker 1: I literally was just talking to Josh Shapiro, Governor of Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: No big deal watch and as I'm talking to and
Speaker 1: it comes up, She's like, can we go to have
Speaker 1: some food? Like this?
Speaker 5: Come on?
Speaker 1: Come anyway? He and I were talking about like whether
Speaker 1: it's a Jewish energy. He and I were talking about
Speaker 1: whether you know we watched the speech and felt like
Speaker 1: the reaction to the speaks part of the conversation, like
Speaker 1: do we think what he was saying is still real?
Speaker 1: Like that there are that people really do want decency
Speaker 1: and to bring people together and a politics that just
Speaker 1: delivers for them. Because it's so easy to see the
Speaker 1: social media part of politics and owning each other and
Speaker 1: the viciousness from Trump and the moments I feel myself
Speaker 1: falling into being a shittier person online, just like dunking
Speaker 1: on people on Twitter. And honestly, my reaction to Barack
Speaker 1: Obama's speech was it made me want to be a
Speaker 1: better person, and it made me want to be more
Speaker 1: like him and more like civically engaged and to pay
Speaker 1: more attention to the messages we're hearing out of people
Speaker 1: like Shapiro and James tallerco. That are asking us to
Speaker 1: kind of get back to that brand of politics.
Speaker 2: I one thousand percent believe that the winning twenty twenty
Speaker 2: eight candidate will be someone who offers a version of
Speaker 2: that message.
Speaker 1: Ye, So to turn the.
Speaker 2: Page on this era division of terribleness for something better.
Speaker 3: It's not.
Speaker 2: It's more exactly the same as mom. As much as
Speaker 2: the world has changed people, you know, everyone's you know,
Speaker 2: we have a lot of callousies and scar tissue over
Speaker 2: the last decade, but something that is more like that
Speaker 2: than the liberal inverse of Trump.
Speaker 1: It's funny. I think just the nature of the trip
Speaker 1: and we've been doing a whole bunch of things last
Speaker 1: couple of days that I haven't really been on my
Speaker 1: phone as much. And then where we were sitting, Dan
Speaker 1: and I were like really trying to get service and
Speaker 1: then trying to like figure out how to get on
Speaker 1: the Wi Fi, and it just wasn't happening. And so
Speaker 1: like I have seen no takes of any of the speeches,
Speaker 1: didn't know nothing was happening, and it really like I
Speaker 1: sat there like good, I don't want to know what
Speaker 1: all that takes are out there of what this event
Speaker 1: is and like letting all the cynicism creep back in
Speaker 1: because I felt like you and Mike, it did make
Speaker 1: me want to be a better person. And Michelle and
Speaker 1: we'll talk about her speech in a second, but she
Speaker 1: had this riff in the speech where she talks about
Speaker 1: how hope is a choice and you know, it can
Speaker 1: just sound hokey when you just hear it like that,
Speaker 1: but I think what she meant is like, yes, you
Speaker 1: can decide that things are going to be bad or
Speaker 1: that you know it's not worth trying all that, or
Speaker 1: you can decide like, yeah, things could still be bad.
Speaker 1: But I'm actually just gonna stop complaining and try and
Speaker 1: like put my shoulder to the wheel and see if
Speaker 1: I can make a difference.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I do think that part of like, you know,
Speaker 4: what is Trump's skill as a politician, and he can
Speaker 4: really make people's worst qualities just truer about them. He
Speaker 4: just has the ability to make something bad. And we
Speaker 4: have good parts and bad parts in US. I mean
Speaker 4: the other day I was I was like, you can
Speaker 4: we go do a tour show in Detroit and we
Speaker 4: say is anyone here from Michigan, and someone raises their
Speaker 4: hand and says they're safe, They're from Ohio. The whole
Speaker 4: crowd like boos them, like fucking crazy the nice agent.
Speaker 1: In every heart.
Speaker 4: But but there is but so like there's this. What
Speaker 4: I liked about that part of the Michelle's speech specifically
Speaker 4: is choosing Trump is takes your agency, and it is it.
Speaker 3: We do not have to.
Speaker 4: Ignore people's culpability, the harm of that choice.
Speaker 3: The fact that they could have made a different one, right.
Speaker 4: Like we should remind you we should take people, hold
Speaker 4: people responsible, and treat them like adults.
Speaker 3: And I think.
Speaker 4: One thing that Barack Obama does as a politician is
Speaker 4: he tries to treat people like adults, and politics that
Speaker 4: treats people like adults.
Speaker 1: The other thing he does that I think we as
Speaker 1: a party or sometimes missing, is he is unabashedly patriotic. Yes,
Speaker 1: and talks about his love for the country. And that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean he hides the imperfections of the country. He
Speaker 1: is a living embodiment of the worst stains in our history.
Speaker 1: But he is patriotic and he talks about the love
Speaker 1: of the country. And I think people want that, and
Speaker 1: they want to be a part of a movement that
Speaker 1: is patriotic. And I was reminded of this when we
Speaker 1: went to the I to the USA Paraguay soccer game
Speaker 1: the other day, and like just being with thousands of
Speaker 1: people chanting USA, USA and like loving their country and
Speaker 1: cheering for the players, and like the fact that a
Speaker 1: bunch of them are immigrants, right, And one was like
Speaker 1: literally like his mother, like the Ben Shapiro's out there
Speaker 1: calling him an anchor baby, right, and this guy scored
Speaker 1: two goals.
Speaker 6: Like it.
Speaker 1: Just getting back to that brand of politics is so important.
Speaker 1: I talked to Jerusalem Dempsis about this for offline this week,
Speaker 1: and she was saying, there's this I haven't seen it,
Speaker 1: but there's this whole discourse online around the World Cup
Speaker 1: where all these people are coming to America and then
Speaker 1: they're like posting America is really great and people are
Speaker 1: so nice. Because of everything that they hear about Trump,
Speaker 1: they thought coming here would be this like dark dystopian
Speaker 1: and they're like, this is a wonderful country. And I
Speaker 1: thought about that walking through the center too, and I
Speaker 1: was like, this is and this has been my feeling
Speaker 1: the last two days here. I'm like this is a
Speaker 1: fucking great country. Like it is a great country. And
Speaker 1: just because Trump is president and we don't like what's
Speaker 1: happening doesn't mean that we should say all this country
Speaker 1: sucks now it doesn't. Don't let them take this from you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the Yeah, I think like holding just the like,
Speaker 4: this is not who we are, well, you know, Trump
Speaker 4: is who we are. But also what the bomber said,
Speaker 4: who we are to the part where in the speech
Speaker 4: where he sorty he talked about the two undred and
Speaker 4: fifteth anniversary, and it just was a small moment for
Speaker 4: me of just like, there's so much noise around Trump
Speaker 4: politicizing the two hundred and fiftieth birthday and the UFC
Speaker 4: fight on the lawn and the Trump rally on the
Speaker 4: National Mall and the reflecting pool and all the rest,
Speaker 4: and that's a terrible price just that this is what
Speaker 4: he's doing with his with this moment, but also the
Speaker 4: opportunity costs of just like what it would have been
Speaker 4: like to have literally any other person in that job
Speaker 4: who just had some modicum of patriotism or respect for
Speaker 4: the country to understand how to make it a genuinely
Speaker 4: uniting moment and the fact that he doesn't even have
Speaker 4: a rhemot.
Speaker 1: It's like it could have been a Republican president, Like
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been happy about that, but like could
Speaker 1: have been a Republican president that brought the country together
Speaker 1: on the America's too fiftieth easily.
Speaker 4: I have no doubt that George W. Bush's tw hundred
Speaker 4: fifteth America, I think would have annoyed me in certain respects.
Speaker 3: Sure, but like you look like, but.
Speaker 1: There would have been really nice moments and we've been like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I feel good.
Speaker 3: It was nice. Also, this s it's a mission.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. When Obama gave a shout out till he
Speaker 1: was like John McCain loved this country like I did,
Speaker 1: like Mitt Romney. You know, there was a nice bipartisan
Speaker 1: spirit to it that wasn't I thought corny and cliche.
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Speaker 1: Slash Crooked speaking of that, I think we do have
Speaker 1: a clip from Obama's speech that we can play and
Speaker 1: then react to. How are you that's it? Tommy does it?
Speaker 1: Tommy has the clip.
Speaker 7: The exhibits in the center are not meant to evoke
Speaker 7: nostalgia for some gauzy bygone era, some unattainable past there
Speaker 7: we can dream about and say, oh, we miss you, Barack.
Speaker 3: They're meant. They're meant to remind us.
Speaker 8: Of who we can be, to remind us of what's possible,
Speaker 8: so we can forge ahead, clear eyed and confident, and
Speaker 8: do the work that still.
Speaker 3: Needs to be done.
Speaker 1: I wanted to play that clip because I think he
Speaker 1: had done a few interviews before today where I think
Speaker 1: he got questions from reporters that were in the vein
Speaker 1: of like isn't this nostalgia or isn't this like a
Speaker 1: long lost era and doesn't it feel like a different
Speaker 1: reality because of what we're dealing with right now? And
Speaker 1: he actually wanted to respond to that in the speech.
Speaker 1: And I think in a way, it's the mission of
Speaker 1: the whole center, which we were just talking about, and
Speaker 1: I think they're very sensitive to the idea that this
Speaker 1: is either a monument to them or about the accomplishments
Speaker 1: of the administration, or about some Gazi past, and what
Speaker 1: it is supposed to be is basically like a pep
Speaker 1: talk for America. Yeah, I wish Wish today was I
Speaker 1: think a badly needed one. But yeah, I look, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are frustrated that he's not
Speaker 1: more engaged with kind of like the politics of the
Speaker 1: day to day. And I think we've even at times
Speaker 1: express like wishing he was just talking about things. But
Speaker 1: he talked about the Twin Cities and the way they
Speaker 1: stood up to ice and came together as a community.
Speaker 1: I thought that was clearly about this moment. He talked
Speaker 1: about government is more than one that divvys up the spoils,
Speaker 1: that punishes enemies, that keeps those that are different from
Speaker 1: them in their place at George W.
Speaker 3: Bush, He's like, I do not leave.
Speaker 1: How that's how the story of America ends. Like we
Speaker 1: will talk about Michelle's speech and and then it which
Speaker 1: is a little more directed at the Trump administration. But
Speaker 1: I thought Obama was very much commenting on the politics
Speaker 1: of Trumpet today.
Speaker 2: I would just say, criticizing museum for being too nostalgic
Speaker 2: is just.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's their point.
Speaker 4: How this museum looks backwards. Which way does your museum play?
Speaker 1: I think I think it was that a New York
Speaker 1: Times we said it was Leeter Bakers, the Peter Baker Yes,
Speaker 1: and it was like and I think, I mean, I
Speaker 1: get why reporters would write that, right, because we are
Speaker 1: living in this reality and then you step in here
Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, is this just a pining for
Speaker 1: the past kind of thing? And you know what they're
Speaker 1: what they're really trying to say, And this goes to
Speaker 1: your point about how people can play like Obama's not
Speaker 1: more involved in politics. And what Obama always says is like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be out there forever because I
Speaker 1: want the next generation of progressive leaders to be out
Speaker 1: there and to like have their moment, and.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the election cycle that happens.
Speaker 1: Right the point of the center and the point of
Speaker 1: the foundation. The point of the center of the point
Speaker 1: of the foundation especially is to is to train and
Speaker 1: inspire young leaders here and all over the world. And
Speaker 1: I think that is it finally makes sense to me now,
Speaker 1: because like it is nice when Obama goes out there
Speaker 1: and he's great on the campaign trail and he gives
Speaker 1: great speeches and he motivates people, and that's important to
Speaker 1: having democratic politics, but we do need lead who are
Speaker 1: not Obama and who take the spotlight in the next
Speaker 1: ten years, twenty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Also, I don't I agree with all that. But also
Speaker 4: it's okay to be nostalgic. I'm not a sto like
Speaker 4: nostalgia that doesn't do it for me in the same
Speaker 4: way I'm not really like a hope person and more
Speaker 4: of an anger and rage person, but I understand its
Speaker 4: value in the same way that Trump appeals to you
Speaker 4: more of an experienced person. Yeah yeah, yeah, small.
Speaker 1: And especially when experience plus strength yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: Right. And obviously, as I've said, change equals one divided
Speaker 4: by no. It was strang the three equals changed, So
Speaker 4: change divided by strength plus experience equals one. But but
Speaker 4: back to the museum, Like, it's okay to be nostalgic, right, Like, yes,
Speaker 4: this was a moment where people were really hopeful and
Speaker 4: a lot of really good was a lot of good
Speaker 4: was done, a lot of things weren't finished, but people
Speaker 4: believed in the mission. They cared about it, they fought
Speaker 4: to make it happen, and they elected him twice and
Speaker 4: it led to really good things. That nostalgia is a
Speaker 4: good thing to feel, and there's a way in which.
Speaker 1: To like, especially especially if it inspires you to act. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's good to feel, but it's also good to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: well then I'm going to go do something.
Speaker 4: And that and that there's a whole and there's a
Speaker 4: lot of people who are very very hyper engage in politics.
Speaker 4: It applies to a lot of people that are partisan.
Speaker 4: It applies to a lot of people that are non
Speaker 4: partisan journalists that uh that they see that is inherently naive,
Speaker 4: that there's something inherently naive about having that warm and
Speaker 4: good feeling about politics in any way that it's cringe right.
Speaker 1: Like sometimes I've gotten I've been in those moments all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 4: But but like, but I had this one was watching
Speaker 4: I think it was there was a moment where Bono
Speaker 4: was singing Michelle my Bell and boy, I have a
Speaker 4: photo I have I'm cringing.
Speaker 3: I got a photo of Tommy just print.
Speaker 4: Just a full body cringe and and I get and like,
Speaker 4: but why do.
Speaker 3: We cringe in it?
Speaker 4: I think it's sometimes because we're uncomfortable with a display
Speaker 4: of care or like a direction that we might agree with,
Speaker 4: but take something too far and away that feels syrupy
Speaker 4: or saccharine in some way.
Speaker 1: Anywhere wondering is he hitting on her? Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a that was did say, But it was a lot
Speaker 1: of deep to your point. In the twenty twenty election,
Speaker 1: like you know, it was a thing you'd hear online
Speaker 1: that people are like, oh, oh, we're just going to
Speaker 1: vote our way out of this problem. It's like, well, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: actually that's the whole thing. That's democracy. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not the only thing you're gonna do, but at some
Speaker 1: point you do have to vote. Otherwise, if you don't
Speaker 1: do it, a lot of the other stuff you're going
Speaker 1: to try. It's going to do much right, well, otherwise
Speaker 1: it's not a democracy, and then we're the other system
Speaker 1: that we say that we're against. Right, So you do
Speaker 1: have to vote at some point. So let's talk about
Speaker 1: Michelle's speech. Let's just listen to a clip because then
Speaker 1: we can then we can comment on it.
Speaker 9: The Native kids showing us that resilience and pride can
Speaker 9: never be stolen. The four aguers and FFA members with
Speaker 9: callouses on their hands from feeding livestock, the immigrants proving
Speaker 9: what it truly means to be a dreamer. These folks,
Speaker 9: these folks aren't Americans too. They are America. They are
Speaker 9: the beating heart of this country. They are us, and
Speaker 9: we are them deep down in our hearts and souls.
Speaker 1: We all know right from wrong.
Speaker 9: We know selflessness from greed, righteousness from injustice.
Speaker 3: All of us, all of us.
Speaker 9: Are created equal, that each of us is a child
Speaker 9: of God with an errant value. And no one, and
Speaker 9: I mean no one has the right to sit in
Speaker 9: judgment of who's American enough.
Speaker 1: So I will say I get like a little misty
Speaker 1: when I saw the Grand Park panel at the Center.
Speaker 1: But the first time this whole week that I actually
Speaker 1: just like cried was during her speed. Oh yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: I saw the sign, languished interpreter wiping tears. It was
Speaker 1: a fantastic speech. I mean it's like it's almost cliche
Speaker 1: to say it that Michelle Obama always knocks out of
Speaker 1: the park, but.
Speaker 3: It really was this.
Speaker 1: I thought Obama's speech was really good. She like, I
Speaker 1: can't remember the last time I didn't see her just
Speaker 1: kind of knock the cover off the ball. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think of a bad Michelle.
Speaker 2: There's no there's there's no.
Speaker 1: The The part that also was really moving was she
Speaker 1: she says at the beginning, I'm going to do what
Speaker 1: you know, what Brock won't want me to do, and
Speaker 1: just like brag about him, and and she talks about
Speaker 1: like how he carried himself in the eight years as president,
Speaker 1: and that's what like really did it for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I lost it at that point. It is him crying.
Speaker 1: It is like like what she said about him is
Speaker 1: like what we know.
Speaker 2: But just like he is such like a decent human,
Speaker 2: like just truly to his core decent, Like he's flawed,
Speaker 2: like he's a human, but he's a decent human. I
Speaker 2: think all the time about like the one thing and
Speaker 2: this is like at the core of what Michelle was saying,
Speaker 2: but he's the thing all the time about how every
Speaker 2: like I'd be in meetings with Obama where it would
Speaker 2: just be like people who you saw a lot. He'd
Speaker 2: be pretty grumpy, right, like shit is bad going on,
Speaker 2: But then someone would come in the room who'd be
Speaker 2: like a younger staff briefing on something or someone coming
Speaker 2: in for a visit, and he like instantly knew that
Speaker 2: that interaction with him and that's the only time they'll
Speaker 2: ever be to president in their life was going to
Speaker 2: be matter life changing, life changing for them, and he
Speaker 2: would matter how shitty the day was, he would pull
Speaker 2: it together and just like treat that person with the
Speaker 2: utmost respect. They make that like a special moment, and
Speaker 2: that is like like that that to me is always
Speaker 2: like summed up who he is. And it was really
Speaker 2: just powerful to hear Michelle talk about it that way.
Speaker 4: I always thought that it was there was an irony
Speaker 4: in the Obama campaign being about change, and that that
Speaker 4: carrying him all the way to the nomination. But ultimately
Speaker 4: he is able to defeat John McCain because in the
Speaker 4: weeks of the financial crisis, what actually carried him all
Speaker 4: the way to the presidency, which was not a quality
Speaker 4: that I think was now necessary for his rise. Until
Speaker 4: then was a kind of preternatural evenness, reliability, consistency, trustworthiness,
Speaker 4: a calm that was sort of in his bones, that
Speaker 4: infused everything that he did, and it gave people the
Speaker 4: assurance unspoken that they could take a chance on him
Speaker 4: when John McCain was supposed to be the more senior
Speaker 4: and seasoned person but had seemed to ratic in the
Speaker 4: lead up to the election, and when people would say
Speaker 4: things like with mich Michelle referenced that oh, he wasn't qualified.
Speaker 1: It wasn't this, it was that's like, why is he qualified?
Speaker 3: Well, look at what he is, look at how.
Speaker 4: He is modeling what it means to be a senator
Speaker 4: and a candidate in a way that say Sarah Palin right,
Speaker 4: who could claim a similar or whatever experience in the
Speaker 4: public in elected office, that didn't have the same effect.
Speaker 4: And now we were all these years later, and it
Speaker 4: just stands in contrast to what Trump is and the
Speaker 4: fact that there were so many Republicans who spent eight
Speaker 4: years denigrating as a person, pretending he was some threat
Speaker 4: or some alien or some e and socialist sort of
Speaker 4: extreme force, when of course the whole time he was
Speaker 4: this even gield center left, consensus building, reliable figure which
Speaker 4: now in hindsight, the country like terribly misses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what I just like think about why
Speaker 1: I was lucky to work for him, Like, yeah, he
Speaker 1: was cool, Yes, he was a great communicator and speaker.
Speaker 1: But the thing, upon like a long time of reflection,
Speaker 1: that I've come to realize was the best part about
Speaker 1: working for him is that on literally anything, you could
Speaker 1: go to him and he had a core belief about
Speaker 1: whatever it was, and that was from a good place,
Speaker 1: That was from a sense of decency and like, yes,
Speaker 1: politics are part of everything, but it's about doing the
Speaker 1: right thing, and like you just never doubted that, or
Speaker 1: like their motivation of their family, and it's just like
Speaker 1: I could contrast that to like you walk in the
Speaker 1: old office now and they're fucking day trading on the
Speaker 1: war with Iran. You know, it's just insane. Where we've gotten.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite lines about Obama ever, is that
Speaker 1: ton of Hussey codes line at the beginning of that
Speaker 1: long piece about him. At the end of the administration,
Speaker 1: which was for eight years, he walked on Ia never
Speaker 1: fell and it was about race and how he handled
Speaker 1: race and being the first black president. But I also
Speaker 1: think it's about it was but so much more than that,
Speaker 1: is that like the job of president and the job
Speaker 1: of him being president and being the first black president,
Speaker 1: as Michelle also mentioned today, it requires so much care
Speaker 1: and thoughtfulness and like balance of so many different competing
Speaker 1: interests and competing desires within yourself and trying to channel
Speaker 1: your emotions and trying to suppress some emotions. And I
Speaker 1: feel like Michelle's speech was that line that ton of
Speaker 1: Hussey codes line. Yeah, And I think that's why it
Speaker 1: was so affecting, because I was like, you know, I
Speaker 1: think we all get that having been in politics, Like
Speaker 1: we all do that, we all done that throughout our
Speaker 1: time in politics, as you realize that so much of
Speaker 1: the job is constant thinking about like what is the
Speaker 1: right balance of this and that, and how do I
Speaker 1: not piss this person off? And how do I persuade
Speaker 1: this person? And like so much care goes into it,
Speaker 1: and the fact that he was able to do that
Speaker 1: and get through eight years it's still intact is just like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's inspiring.
Speaker 2: I think the being the first black president like what
Speaker 2: Michelle said that like that, we like anyone who worked
Speaker 2: with him or worked from the very beginning, knew the
Speaker 2: historic nature of his candidacy and the different set of
Speaker 2: rules are applied to him that any cann And it's
Speaker 2: the same way, different set of rules replied to women.
Speaker 1: Candidates, and he refused to complain about it.
Speaker 2: He refused to complain about it, and he can and
Speaker 2: Michelle's like that was subtext of everything that we always
Speaker 2: talked about. But Michelle made a text, right and said
Speaker 2: very clear that he for eight years, could not make
Speaker 2: a mistake. He could not slip up, He cannot lose
Speaker 2: his temper, he cannot lash out, he cannot set an
Speaker 2: angry tweek. He had to bear the expectations and the
Speaker 2: pressure of being the first black president, because how he
Speaker 2: did it was going to dictate if and when we
Speaker 2: had a second black president.
Speaker 1: Right for example, literally just pointing out that Trayvon Martin
Speaker 1: looked like what his son would look like. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: she said that today, and I was like, yeah, she
Speaker 1: leaned in, Yeah, and I think that I think she
Speaker 1: got some stuff off her chest today, which.
Speaker 3: I like, yeah, she always does. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was great. It was funny we should about like
Speaker 1: the sort of the backdrop of all of this invisible
Speaker 1: in the backdrop and sometimes not very visible is Trump. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and how they all kind of how they both handled
Speaker 1: that today.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well yeah, the it's funny. I felt the same
Speaker 4: way they convention too, that when Michelle's speeches there's like
Speaker 4: an edge and a kind of darkness to them that
Speaker 4: I'm like, Oh, I'm like, I'm always caught off guard
Speaker 4: by it. And I'm like, oh, like she's pissed a
Speaker 4: little bit, like she's going to say some things that
Speaker 4: she's feeling about what's going on right now. And it
Speaker 4: always works because I do think, like she taps, it's
Speaker 4: a very it's you know, it's a it's it matches
Speaker 4: what he does. These are compliments with what he does.
Speaker 4: Because she has this, she understands how to use that
Speaker 4: that feeling people have. That's all we're living through the
Speaker 4: Trump era. We're always a little bit mad, We're always
Speaker 4: a little bit upset. It's always there. It is a
Speaker 4: it is a cloud over our society. And she just
Speaker 4: without saying the name, she just said, you know what,
Speaker 4: that's a part of today, and I'm gonna and it
Speaker 4: makes me upset too, because not just because of what's
Speaker 4: happening right now because of but because of what the
Speaker 4: other standard that was applied to Barack Obama when I
Speaker 4: saw what kind of a man he was.
Speaker 1: And the thing that I think we'll probably get clicky
Speaker 1: is like, you know, he actually won a Peace Prize, right,
Speaker 1: that was like a fun shot at Trump. The thing
Speaker 1: that I thought, to your point, loved about the darkness
Speaker 1: was failing to see the humanity and others puts us
Speaker 1: on a slippery slope when he's talking about immigration. Y. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: she's like talking about this slide to fascism in her remarks.
Speaker 2: I can't remember who said this, but someone said about
Speaker 2: Michelle after her convention speech in twenty twenty four that
Speaker 2: she is your friend who just tells you like it is,
Speaker 2: does not beat around the bush, just tells you exactly
Speaker 2: what you need to hear. And her speech is always
Speaker 2: just reflected like there's no like there's a way to
Speaker 2: make those points that there's so sat all that like
Speaker 2: maybe even or you get it, but you've you've basically
Speaker 2: wasted a bunch of words that she just says it always,
Speaker 2: and it's what makes it so powerful.
Speaker 1: I always roll my eyes when people are like shell
Speaker 1: Obama should run for present because we obviously you know
Speaker 1: she's never gonna run for anything because she despises politics.
Speaker 1: But again today, like halfway through the speech, as I
Speaker 1: was crying and then Emily was also crying next to me,
Speaker 1: she was like, I mean, maybe she should run for something,
Speaker 1: Like are we crazy or was this the thought that
Speaker 1: I slapped my I'm well, we can want it all
Speaker 1: we want, She's not going to do it, but but
Speaker 1: I she just really she can command a stage. By
Speaker 1: the way, we're in a working building, there's you might
Speaker 1: hear some background noise. Positive America is brought to you
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Speaker 1: thing before we move on, Dan, you had a message
Speaker 1: box today In honor of today, I did about what
Speaker 1: democrats can learn from Barack Obama, which I thought would
Speaker 1: be a nice, nice way to end the section.
Speaker 2: Well, I look, I think you know, Obama says every
Speaker 2: every election cycle he goes out, he goes on the trail,
Speaker 2: and everyone says, like, why can't more Democrats look at this?
Speaker 2: And Obama's obviously, as we all know what, everyone is
Speaker 2: a generationally talented communicator, and so just telling people to
Speaker 2: be more like Obama's like not helpful advice. It's like,
Speaker 2: be more like Michael Georgan, like Dunk Moore. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I think there are like a few things that any
Speaker 2: communicator can take from him, And I'll just give you
Speaker 2: a couple. One is like in tell me you mentioned this,
Speaker 2: is that there is this inherent patriotism in everything he
Speaker 2: says like he owns it. He will not let Republicans
Speaker 2: take patriotism he is not. He well you know, and
Speaker 2: often does talk about all the flaws of this country,
Speaker 2: but makes the point about what a special place is
Speaker 2: that you heard that today. The other one is that
Speaker 2: he you know, and I remember this early on the administration,
Speaker 2: we were going to do a YouTube town hall, which
Speaker 2: is like very innovative at the time, which was just
Speaker 2: a town hall that streamed on the internet, and but
Speaker 2: YouTube was hosting and we.
Speaker 1: Were taking we're doing a YouTube podcasts, and.
Speaker 2: They were taking questions over the over I guess in
Speaker 2: YouTube comments I can remember, but the number one topic
Speaker 2: by far was the legalization of marijuana. And so we
Speaker 2: went in to say, like, this is the number one question,
Speaker 2: but you don't like, we don't have to take it,
Speaker 2: and he's like, you always have to talk about the Like, well,
Speaker 2: if it's the number one question, we're going to talk
Speaker 2: about it, because he like he will always say it's
Speaker 2: like that, you always have to talk about the thing, right,
Speaker 2: the elephant in the room. You cannot avoid it. Just
Speaker 2: take it a head on, you know. And then the
Speaker 2: last thing I think is really powerful is we talk
Speaker 2: all the time about like how democratsy in a better
Speaker 2: affordability message, economic message. All this and what Obama always
Speaker 2: understood is that the discussion of the economy is not
Speaker 2: really about policy. It's not about how many time you
Speaker 2: say affordability. It's not whether you say bottom up or
Speaker 2: middle out. It is a it's a story about values,
Speaker 2: about who you're fighting for and who you're fighting against,
Speaker 2: and like that is the frame to bring to all
Speaker 2: of this, and this is like, ultimately, I think the
Speaker 2: biggest thing to take from Obama over the whole time
Speaker 2: is that politics and messaging is a storytelling exercise. It's
Speaker 2: not a slogan, it's not a SoundBite, it's not a tweet.
Speaker 1: It is an.
Speaker 2: Overall narrative about the country, about why you are the
Speaker 2: person who should be elected while the other side should
Speaker 2: not be elected, and fitting things into those stories.
Speaker 1: It's what do you have to say about this moment
Speaker 1: that we're in right now in the country and where
Speaker 1: you want to take us. What do you have to
Speaker 1: say about it? Yeah, Like, and everything has to flow
Speaker 1: from their message, flows from their policy, flows in there.
Speaker 1: Like that's where you have to start. And and like,
Speaker 1: you know, Michelle and Barack Obama has something to say today, right,
Speaker 1: and people can have something completely different to say, But
Speaker 1: you still need to run for president having something to
Speaker 1: say about it this moment that is beyond just Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and what policies you want to enact when you're president. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's get to some news before we leave, because I
Speaker 1: guess news has been happening.
Speaker 2: We had access to it, but we hear its happening.
Speaker 1: Uh, we got the We got the text of the
Speaker 1: Iran deal apparently the m OU and uh boy, is
Speaker 1: it a stinker.
Speaker 2: Tommy, was the Treaty of Versailles at m ou.
Speaker 1: It's a good question. Yeah, so we have a Treaty
Speaker 1: of Versailles. He signed it in Versailles with macron, which
Speaker 1: is an insane choice.
Speaker 4: Wait a second, I'm sorry, I'm learning this in real time.
Speaker 4: You're telling me they signed this piece of paper in
Speaker 4: literal Versailles. Yes, dude, he stayed an extra day just
Speaker 4: to go out dinner. It's like, it's real gold and
Speaker 4: I want to signing ceremony. It was just like he
Speaker 4: decided to just sign it in Versailles.
Speaker 3: That's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like the wow, it's like the twentieth
Speaker 1: crazy thing about the about the the text which the
Speaker 1: administration administration official read all the text of the mo OU.
Speaker 1: We couldn't just copy paste like CNN Bloomberg got it
Speaker 1: and then CNN got it, I think, But then the
Speaker 1: administration Stephen Choung, was like, they're just wrong, that's not
Speaker 1: the text, and I got it from the President of
Speaker 1: Iran's Twitter and the real ended up being like a
Speaker 1: couple words were different, but not not by any not
Speaker 1: anything significant. So the Memorandum of Understanding the MoU, the Treaty.
Speaker 2: Of THEU ever signed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right yeah. The memo calls for the suspension
Speaker 1: of the naval blockade of Iran's ports and for Iran
Speaker 1: to use its best efforts to allow traffic through the
Speaker 1: Strait of Horror moves without tolls best for sixty days.
Speaker 1: It calls for a permanent into war in Israel and Lebanon.
Speaker 1: Aroan is allowed to resume exporting oil, will get access
Speaker 1: to a three hundred billion dollar redevelopment and reconstruction fund.
Speaker 1: The MoU creates a sixty day window for negotiations over
Speaker 1: Iron's nuclear program, and in the meantime, Iran reaffirms its
Speaker 1: long standing commitment not to procure and develop nukes. So
Speaker 1: it's not playing super well. No, you got your Bill Cassidy's,
Speaker 1: John Coryn's. All the people who feel liberated now that
Speaker 1: Trump has defeated them. They they have been voicing some
Speaker 1: some criticism. Other Republicans are just sort of hiding.
Speaker 3: So funny these guys.
Speaker 4: He threw off a mountain and then while you're rolling
Speaker 4: down towards your demise, over clip.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like.
Speaker 1: The hawk the around hawks are very mad. You've probably
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you probably consumed a lot more of Mark
Speaker 1: Levin content, those Ben sh Apier's tears on there clips.
Speaker 1: I might have downloaded a commentary podcast from John pod
Speaker 1: Horse Time.
Speaker 4: He's got the Daily Wire opening incognito window.
Speaker 1: Here's we think we have a clip of Trump talking
Speaker 1: about the the MU of Versailles in France.
Speaker 6: Then it's a memorandum of understanding. If it doesn't get
Speaker 6: done in sixty days, it's sir, right, we go back
Speaker 6: to bombing. Kind of like Barack Hussein Obama who sent
Speaker 6: a ramp allice of cash and any relief they receive
Speaker 6: under this deal, well they'll have to get based on
Speaker 6: merit and it won't be from us. We don't have
Speaker 6: to give them anything, but some people may want to invest.
Speaker 6: I said, well, what am I gonna do. We're gonna
Speaker 6: let Soudi Arabia have missiles, but they can't have them. Yes, sir,
Speaker 6: missiles aren't the problem. Missiles or they hurt a little location,
Speaker 6: but they don't blow up the planet. And in all
Speaker 6: fairness to bebing you know who happens to be a
Speaker 6: good man gets a little excited. Sometimes we have a
Speaker 6: little dispute over Lebanon, and I say, you can do
Speaker 6: a little softer touch. Maybe you don't have to knock
Speaker 6: down a building every time somebody walks into it. That's
Speaker 6: from his Bulah.
Speaker 3: That guy. I'm sorry that guy. Another one too.
Speaker 4: I was like, every time of the best case, the
Speaker 4: other line was you shoot a couple of missiles down,
Speaker 4: they don't hurt about desert.
Speaker 3: You're knocking down a building in be rude.
Speaker 4: It was like, imagine that the democratic a democrat ship
Speaker 4: that we brought down on these people. And I'm sorry, no,
Speaker 4: just the idea of the number of times these fucking
Speaker 4: anti JCPOA people were like, this doesn't even address ballistic missiles,
Speaker 4: ballistic missiles, ballistic.
Speaker 1: For proxies a million times at the beginning of the.
Speaker 3: This is this is why the deal is so shameful.
Speaker 4: You're gonna give them money, but they're not addressing the
Speaker 4: core problem of the ballistic missiles and the CO and
Speaker 4: HESBELA and their proxies. And then Trump gives up completely
Speaker 4: and three hundred billion dollars is what twice three times
Speaker 4: four times as much as what was ever contemplated, but
Speaker 4: also Iran deal.
Speaker 1: They got an immediate license to sell oil and gas,
Speaker 1: so they're gonna be making money off of that. Then
Speaker 1: they're clearly planning to you know, they call it fees,
Speaker 1: but it's they're gonna be toll ships in the straight
Speaker 1: up for moves. Aron's gonna make so much money off
Speaker 1: of this. I mean, look, big picture, the best outcome
Speaker 1: is the war being over. So like, I'm happy that
Speaker 1: the original sin here is this war starting. And the
Speaker 1: best thing to come out of this is that the
Speaker 1: fucking Lindsey Graham Foundation for the Defense of Democracies neo
Speaker 1: Khan hawk worldview is smothered to death right and that
Speaker 1: Trump hates these people and then he runs them out
Speaker 1: of DC. But they cleaned his clock in this deal,
Speaker 1: and then just hearing him just on this on this
Speaker 1: ballistic missile thing. Clearly the reason you would go to
Speaker 1: the core national security priority with Iran is preventing them
Speaker 1: from getting a nuclear weapon, right, Like non proliferation is
Speaker 1: a good thing generally. I think the way you do
Speaker 1: that is through negotiations, not bombing them. We did, you know,
Speaker 1: fuck up a lot of their infrastructure, but whatever, they
Speaker 1: can rebuild that. But to hear Trump from going from
Speaker 1: these maximus positions to being like, Eh, who cares about
Speaker 1: the nuclear dust. We got eyes on it. Maybe we'll
Speaker 1: get it out, maybe we won't. It's like head spinning.
Speaker 1: And then on the ballistic missiles, Like remember when Rubio
Speaker 1: went up to Capitol Hill and he did that press
Speaker 1: conference where he blamed Israel and then ran away and
Speaker 1: didn't talk to the press for two months. The core
Speaker 1: argument they were making there is that Iran was on
Speaker 1: the cusp of having a ballistic missile arsenal that would
Speaker 1: make their nuclear weapons program like impregnable, and we couldn't
Speaker 1: go after forgot right, And now Trump is like, Eh,
Speaker 1: who gives a fuck. They can have some ballistic missiles,
Speaker 1: It's no big deal.
Speaker 4: Ruby also is this our goal is to stop them
Speaker 4: from their ability to project power in the Regionistic is
Speaker 4: how you project power.
Speaker 3: It is the definition of their power in the region.
Speaker 1: Read the MoU this morning. The text I was like,
Speaker 1: did we get anything from this? No?
Speaker 2: The straight the theoretical opening of the straight for sixty.
Speaker 1: The theoretical opening of the strait that Iran and Oman
Speaker 1: are going to jointly control and can charge fees whenever
Speaker 1: they want, and before the war, the strait used to
Speaker 1: be open and controlled by no one because it was
Speaker 1: international waters right, and there were no tolls. So like,
Speaker 1: I don't think we got anything in the theory of
Speaker 1: the case on the nuclear negotiations that your leverage is
Speaker 1: military action and sanctions, and he just gave up both
Speaker 1: of those in advance of the sixty days of talks
Speaker 1: over the nuclear park. And he says like, oh, we
Speaker 1: can just go back to bombing them. But you know what,
Speaker 1: Iran knows that as we get closer to the midterms,
Speaker 1: he's not going to go back to bombing them. They
Speaker 1: you shouldn't go back to bombing them. They're not to
Speaker 1: get bombed out of you know, their nuclear Now, we.
Speaker 4: Just unleashed a bombing campaign for weeks. It costs US
Speaker 4: tens of billions of dollars, and the end result is
Speaker 4: an unconditional surrender in Versailles. So I don't know what
Speaker 4: additional bombs are going to do for anybody. The other
Speaker 4: thing is, I don't know if you're going to go
Speaker 4: to it. But uh you advanced sort of brushing back
Speaker 4: the uh uh, the Iran hawks and specifically referring to
Speaker 4: uh uh pro Israel Iran hawks saying, uh, Trump is
Speaker 4: the only leader on earth that is sympathetic to Israel's
Speaker 4: point of view, and we're the leader of the world superpower,
Speaker 4: which the for for van I'm glad man said that, right,
Speaker 4: It's like, look at what for all these people that
Speaker 4: claim to be so pro Israel, right, that have been
Speaker 4: that have that have turned Apack into this partisan weapon,
Speaker 4: that have alienated Democrats, that have that have have turned
Speaker 4: Israel into pariah state?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 4: Do you feel good about where where Israel's at now?
Speaker 3: Alone in the world?
Speaker 4: Beholden on Donald Trump, a guy that does not give
Speaker 4: a fuck what happens, who could turn on a dime
Speaker 4: that do you think this was a long term great play?
Speaker 3: Now? The Democratic Party? Uh is uh uh opposed to
Speaker 3: the to.
Speaker 4: The Yahoo government. Israel has never been more unpopular in
Speaker 4: its entire history. It's never been more isolated. You guys
Speaker 4: feel good about where you landed after all this while
Speaker 4: calling everybody out there anti Semite, said anti Israel. You
Speaker 4: think the people that might have been saying that Benjamin
Speaker 4: and Yahoo was terrible for Israel might have had a
Speaker 4: fucking point rather than calling us all what self hating Jews, Like, anyway,
Speaker 4: that's what That's just a little point I wanted to
Speaker 4: make about that.
Speaker 1: Well, it just won't very quickly. Like I want Democrats
Speaker 1: to just stand up and support the JCPOA and say
Speaker 1: that it was better. Stop all the fucking throat clearing
Speaker 1: about its flaws and what was omitted. The JCPOA is
Speaker 1: better than what Trump may eventually get. Here beu is
Speaker 1: with the JCPOA around shipped out, ninety seven percent of
Speaker 1: its stockpile was out of the country and went to Russia.
Speaker 1: In this case, we're talking about down blending it to
Speaker 1: making it less usable for nuclear weapons. In the JCPOA
Speaker 1: that went through the UN Security Council, right, So this
Speaker 1: was the had sanctions into the backing of all their
Speaker 1: closest allies like the P five plus one, et cetera.
Speaker 1: This will have none of that. And now this three
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars slush fund, Like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: All these Gulf countries are now getting told they're on
Speaker 1: the hook to rebuild Iran when Iran was firing ballistic
Speaker 1: missiles at them. Can we talk about it before we
Speaker 1: move on to this you mentioned Jadvance. I want to
Speaker 1: sort of ask a hacky political question, which is I
Speaker 1: read in playbook this morning. I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of Jadvance's like you know, opponents or detractors are trying
Speaker 1: to hang this deal around his neck and say it's
Speaker 1: Jadvance's deal. And there's people from Jadvance's office that basically
Speaker 1: pushed back and said, those people obviously can't read a
Speaker 1: poll because this war is very unpopular, and the idea
Speaker 1: that this is going to be bad for jd Vance
Speaker 1: to be associated with this deal, this treaty is crazy
Speaker 1: because people don't want war anyway, and so it's not
Speaker 1: going to be a real political risk for him at all.
Speaker 1: What do you guys make of that? Because I think
Speaker 1: it brings up the question of how this war and
Speaker 1: how it ended sort of plays out politically, or whether
Speaker 1: it even does, whether it has a lasting political impact
Speaker 1: as we head towards the midterms and beyond that.
Speaker 3: I think the.
Speaker 2: On like a substance of political level, no one is
Speaker 2: going to remember the war by the time that voting
Speaker 2: happens in and will not not in this November. I
Speaker 2: think the questions about Jade Vance's president so by the
Speaker 2: time we yeah, I think the war will matter to
Speaker 2: remember in a couple of ways we can talk about
Speaker 2: when it comes to the Republican primary or the general
Speaker 2: election of twenty twenty advances that I may I think
Speaker 2: anyone's gonna remember it. I think the damage of the
Speaker 2: war to JD. Vance is I think it has ensured
Speaker 2: that Donald Trump will be a very unpopular president. When
Speaker 2: JD Vance is possibly trying to be the third term
Speaker 2: of that very unpopular person, I think that is bad
Speaker 2: for him.
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Speaker 1: Speaking Evans, he's been on a book tour about his
Speaker 1: conversion to Tough Timing Man. Tough Timing. Yeah, it's really
Speaker 1: this ruined the tour. He went to The View, went
Speaker 1: into the Lions den Uh huh. That they do a
Speaker 1: great job. I haven't watched any questions. Are really good.
Speaker 2: You're learning for the first time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this clib will be my first, my first experience
Speaker 1: with JD on the View. So let's let's take a look.
Speaker 4: Everybody knows that Americans are struggling.
Speaker 10: What is he spending all this money for?
Speaker 5: Well, I got to defend the president on the hoax point.
Speaker 5: What the President said is the idea that Republicans, cause
Speaker 5: the affordability problem.
Speaker 1: Is a hoax.
Speaker 4: He just said he loves the inflation.
Speaker 5: What he said, Anna, What he said is that he
Speaker 5: loves the fact that the inflation is going to come
Speaker 5: down when this war is over.
Speaker 3: That's that's what he said.
Speaker 4: Are you this interpreter or are you his vice president?
Speaker 10: I believe as a Christian I can tell my kids
Speaker 10: why it's important to have borders. I get that there
Speaker 10: are laws, there are resources, I get all that things.
Speaker 10: It's much harder to explain when I see someone dragged
Speaker 10: out of a house or wrongly take into a thing.
Speaker 4: That isn't a violent pink that is that is.
Speaker 10: It's a little more nuanced as a parent to try
Speaker 10: to say when someone's referred to as vermin or scum.
Speaker 10: When I teach them in school about people that have
Speaker 10: done that before, but this is different. It's very hard
Speaker 10: as a parent and a Christian to say both things.
Speaker 10: I would urge you, as a Christian and as a father,
Speaker 10: to visit those detention centers where the children are being held.
Speaker 5: So you guys have thrown a lot at me, and
Speaker 5: I say, we got thirty seconds left here.
Speaker 1: But let me say no, the one sounds.
Speaker 3: Like that one.
Speaker 1: Well, what'd you guys think anyone watched more of it?
Speaker 3: I watched a bunch of it.
Speaker 1: They did a great job. And what they did that
Speaker 1: I think we heard there was the questions weren't like
Speaker 1: from a like a shitty liberal perspective. It was like,
Speaker 1: as a Christian, as a human being, how can you
Speaker 1: as a parent like see what's happening at the Delly
Speaker 1: Detention Center and be okay with that? And I think
Speaker 1: jd vance credit to him. I guess we're going there, right.
Speaker 1: That's he's clearly trying to make an argument that he's
Speaker 1: the kind of candidate that can build bridges and reach
Speaker 1: new voters by going on the view right, Like that's
Speaker 1: like a thing you tell people you did. He answered
Speaker 1: the questions, but I don't think he did a good job.
Speaker 1: And he also just cannot help but sound like a
Speaker 1: whiny little bitch. He is the victim of everything.
Speaker 4: He also says Democrats are terrible at one point, I
Speaker 4: do like it, just it's just not possible to be
Speaker 4: It's not possible to fairly answer questions, defend Donald Trump
Speaker 4: and Bill d a and and sort of be tilting
Speaker 4: at any kind of broader sort of a nonpartisan collage.
Speaker 3: Like that that those things.
Speaker 4: There's no talent on earth that could both defend Donald
Speaker 4: Trump and pretend to be some kind of broader, more
Speaker 4: appealing figure. It's just not can't be done. And so
Speaker 4: I don't think he could do it. But I don't think.
Speaker 4: I think there are people that are far more talented
Speaker 4: the JD events that would make it look a little
Speaker 4: bit easier.
Speaker 1: He's just so bad.
Speaker 2: He's terrible, Like in those answers, like he thinks he's
Speaker 2: being smart by basically just gaslighting about what it is
Speaker 2: Trump actually said, and he just saysn't Like there's a way,
Speaker 2: like defending on Trump's an a possible task. It just
Speaker 2: you cannot do that and remain any sort of dignity
Speaker 2: or serious as a human being. You just can't. But
Speaker 2: there's ways to do it with more charm humor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just has.
Speaker 2: He just says no, he says no charisma, And I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I think I think he goes on.
Speaker 2: The view and I think he was not. I think
Speaker 2: in his mind maybe he wants to show that he
Speaker 2: can go to place. I don't think he wants to
Speaker 2: show that he can go own the Libs. Remember he
Speaker 2: went on Blue Sky for like a hot minute to
Speaker 2: tay people.
Speaker 1: Well, you just reference at it that he calls Democrats
Speaker 1: terrible people. So he did that. Kelly later it was
Speaker 1: Gutfeld it right, because I saw that clip and I
Speaker 1: realized that, Yeah. His whole play was I'll go on
Speaker 1: the View and then they'll beat me up, and then
Speaker 1: I'll go to the right wing outlets and I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I survived the View and they were such assholes and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. But he he doesn't. They
Speaker 1: didn't even beat him up, though they were like very substantive.
Speaker 1: And the way he said that too, it was such
Speaker 1: a He's like, and the thing about Democrats that I
Speaker 1: don't like it's it's it's not the policies necessarily, is
Speaker 1: that they're terrible people, right, and they're not grateful to
Speaker 1: the country. He did the grateful Well, the thing it's
Speaker 1: even worse than this, it's a in this.
Speaker 2: He couldn't stop himself. He started by saying, like, the
Speaker 2: thing that virus me about Democrats is it's not what,
Speaker 2: it's not their policies, it's not this, it's that they're not.
Speaker 2: I think the grateful thing. I think in this context,
Speaker 2: what he was trying to awkwardly do was that like
Speaker 2: to try to suggest we run down America. But he
Speaker 2: knew he was on Fox. We couldn't just say that,
Speaker 2: so he had to say it. Also bothers me that
Speaker 2: some of them are terrible people, Like that's he looks
Speaker 2: like at a side it wasn't even some it.
Speaker 1: Was just terrible people, the terrible people. And I was
Speaker 1: like that that is a wild thing, Like does he
Speaker 1: think that he can just I mean, I know he's
Speaker 1: gonna run in a primary here, but does he realize
Speaker 1: that kind of undermines the whole softening your image effort
Speaker 1: and something. He's just crazy.
Speaker 2: He has no deafinis, he has no definite.
Speaker 1: I really he was on the book tour. It is
Speaker 1: crazy that Marco Rubio has just gone into witness protection.
Speaker 1: He's the National Security Visor in the Secretary of State.
Speaker 1: He has he done a single interview about the surrenders.
Speaker 1: That there's a picture of him over Trump when Trump's
Speaker 1: assigning the treaty in Versailles, and he looks like, did
Speaker 1: you guys watch him behind Trump and the press Commerce
Speaker 1: shifting back and forth like dead eyed. He looked like
Speaker 1: he'd taken like six thousand provy and hadn't slept in
Speaker 1: a month, like just looked miserable. Well, before we go,
Speaker 1: I do think we should talk about briefly the reflecting pool.
Speaker 1: M M, I guess that's a that's the thing in
Speaker 1: the news now because the reflecting pool. So let me
Speaker 1: get this straight. Please correct me if I've.
Speaker 2: Got This is important to me because identification for two
Speaker 2: weeks so in my lat trying to avoid learning something.
Speaker 2: This is the thing that I know very little about.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to learn. I very love a fashion.
Speaker 3: Explain it to Dan.
Speaker 1: Here's what I think. Obviously, Trump decided to paint the
Speaker 1: reflecting pool. He did the American flag blue, then they
Speaker 1: refilled it.
Speaker 2: How do you describe the paint.
Speaker 3: It was like thick rubber, rubberrobbing.
Speaker 1: And then and then he uh so they painted it.
Speaker 1: They filled it up again, and then it quickly turned
Speaker 1: green because of algae, and so then there's a green
Speaker 1: reflecting pool after spending however much he spent to make
Speaker 1: it blue. And then they just quickly had parks people
Speaker 1: or interior people or whatever run over there and start
Speaker 1: dumping hydrogen peroxide or whatever into the just dumping it
Speaker 1: into the reflecting pool as if like like this reflecting
Speaker 1: pool is quite large, as Donald Trump showed us on
Speaker 1: his chart, and just like doing a couple buckets was
Speaker 1: not really going to do anything. And then they had
Speaker 1: like algae scoopers in there.
Speaker 3: And then getting the algae off the bottom.
Speaker 1: And then the Department of Interior this morning decided to
Speaker 1: post a series of tweets that was like it's back
Speaker 1: and they have a picture of the water is blue again,
Speaker 1: which I think is just a fake picture, and they said,
Speaker 1: and the algae is gone from the the algae is
Speaker 1: now just at the bottom of the reflecting pool, just
Speaker 1: like the Iranian Navy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the.
Speaker 4: Department of Interior, which in a previous era might have
Speaker 4: posted a picture of say, Zion National Park.
Speaker 3: Boy, check out Zion National Park.
Speaker 4: We think everybody's gonna love it. They're like, you fucking
Speaker 4: cup pitches.
Speaker 3: And this thing is blue now, it's crazy.
Speaker 4: So here's they drained the pool.
Speaker 3: They painted it a darker color, but a bluer color whatever.
Speaker 4: Okay, they claimed, because oh, you know, the Obama and
Speaker 4: Biden they didn't have the stuff to fix their refle
Speaker 4: They couldn't get that, couldn't get it done. But as
Speaker 4: we all complained about for years, there's a big thing
Speaker 4: we really cared about.
Speaker 3: So they're gonna do it. They're gonna fix it.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And then the algae comes back. Why, well, maybe because
Speaker 3: Donald Trump isn't magic.
Speaker 4: It isn't eight acre short fucking swamp painted black in
Speaker 4: the middle of one of the like in the middle
Speaker 4: of a swamp.
Speaker 1: Uh, and there's algae, and maybe maybe the paint color
Speaker 1: American flag blue doesn't have magical properties. That I regret
Speaker 1: to say that I read along Washington Post article about this,
Speaker 1: because there's all this like drainage and filtration infrastructure that
Speaker 1: they didn't actually choose to fix, and that's the core problem.
Speaker 3: We just painted it.
Speaker 1: So the other part of this, too, is the perfect
Speaker 1: metaphor for the entire.
Speaker 3: The swamp, if you will.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but so of course the algiae coz Now the
Speaker 4: Interior Department then puts out a statement saying, actually, this
Speaker 4: is residual algae, and it's like, hey, it's not spunk.
Speaker 4: We don't believe in spontaneous creation of life anymore. We're
Speaker 4: not Lamarckians or whatever it was. Who are the fucking people?
Speaker 3: Oh, that's evolving quickly.
Speaker 4: Who's the ones that thought the maggots became the that
Speaker 4: maggots spontaneously arise?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, thank you? Read?
Speaker 7: I do you know this?
Speaker 1: Read?
Speaker 4: Because because we didn't have sports, nobody invited us to
Speaker 4: flip cups, so we learned about these things.
Speaker 1: But so.
Speaker 4: So uh yeah, it's always residual algae. That's where the
Speaker 4: algae fucking comes from. Now, they did, no HydroD peroxide
Speaker 4: can shock a pool. However, the percent pools a pool
Speaker 4: the kind they were using, the twelve percent that's for
Speaker 4: a hot tap. This is a seven million gallon tank.
Speaker 4: You would need at need in the math five thousand
Speaker 4: to seven thousand gallons of this stuff. And that's just
Speaker 4: to get it clean for a week. And then they're like, well,
Speaker 4: the new nano rubber tubes are gonna work. It's like
Speaker 4: there is runoff because this is a park in the
Speaker 4: middle of a city that is like from the Potomac
Speaker 4: and all the rest. So the algae is just going
Speaker 4: to keep coming back. And it is a great metaphor
Speaker 4: for Donald Trump thinking for people thinking that the only
Speaker 4: problem has been that our leaders were stupid or didn't
Speaker 4: care or didn't breaking up rules.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump does something cheap and easy that he thinks
Speaker 1: is a magic, magic solution. It's not, and then he
Speaker 1: pretends it is anyway.
Speaker 2: And news newsflash, Donald Trump Junior. Now, I would say,
Speaker 2: Hydro and Proxide company.
Speaker 1: Did you guys see like the Newsmax guy who is
Speaker 1: down at the reflecting pool doing interviews suggesting that the
Speaker 1: Democrats had like sabotage.
Speaker 4: Yes, sabotages everywhere. Everyone thinks we've been poor and phosphates,
Speaker 4: we've been moertilizing the fuck. Yes, And then Jesse Waters
Speaker 4: sent his like baby dork goon down there to be like, well,
Speaker 4: at least our president cared enough to fix it and
Speaker 4: try like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: Yes, the Washington posted report by the way that the
Speaker 1: ballroom that there's they found an invoice to a contractor
Speaker 1: that for like six hundred million dollars and that half
Speaker 1: of it was going to be tax para moneyers, and
Speaker 1: so that they've been lying the whole time. And then
Speaker 1: notice reported I believe that they found out that omb
Speaker 1: has been moving money from the Secret Service budget into
Speaker 1: doings because they couldn't get it pased through Congress to
Speaker 1: so so it is. Look we are paying for the
Speaker 1: ball room after all. Well, famously Secret Service has had
Speaker 1: a great run recently, resources had some loose change. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's happened anyway.
Speaker 4: We started to make that money by a couple of
Speaker 4: pairs of barnocular boys.
Speaker 1: Well we started very inspiring. We ended up with algae
Speaker 1: in the pool. So it's a tale for our times.
Speaker 1: This has been fun. Guys. Everyone have a great weekend.
Speaker 1: That's our show for today. Alex Wagner will be backing
Speaker 1: the Feed on Sunday with a conversation with historian and
Speaker 1: substack titan Heather Cox Richardson and thanks to Obama Library
Speaker 1: for letting us in here. Yeah I'm seriously Erica.
Speaker 3: Now let's go find our books.
Speaker 1: Somemer Pod Dave America is a Crooked Media production. Our
Speaker 1: show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Ruben, McKenna Roberts
Speaker 1: and Faris Safari with Ree Jerlin, Elijah Cone and Adrian Hill.
Speaker 1: Our team includes Matt de Grote, Ben Hefcote, Jordan Cantor,
Speaker 1: Charlotte Landis, Carol keel Avive, David Toles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young,
Speaker 1: and Naomi Single. Our staff is probably unionized with the
Speaker 1: Writers Guild of America East