1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays on the Paranormal UK 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: Radio Network. It hasn't changed in millions of years. But here, 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: here we have a clue to an answer. Let me 6 00:00:23,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Speaker 1: know when you've got your instruments ready. 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: I need all the figures I can get. But what 8 00:00:28,039 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: was it? 9 00:00:28,719 --> 00:00:32,039 Speaker 1: Science didn't know, but dedicated scientists were willing to risk 10 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:33,359 Speaker 1: their lives to find out. 11 00:01:10,519 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: Hello, this is Michael Peeley and you're listening to the 12 00:01:12,879 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: Paranormal UK Radio Network, the UK's biggest paranormal network, and 13 00:01:17,599 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: this is Paranormal Dimensions with David Young. 14 00:01:28,599 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to the show. I'm David Young. This is 15 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: another special extra show for you, as I announced last week, 16 00:01:35,599 --> 00:01:38,599 Speaker 1: and my guest is Mark League, making another welcome return 17 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: to the show. And this, as it turns out, is 18 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,879 Speaker 1: going to be a part one. Mark will be returning 19 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: later on in the year to do Part two. But 20 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,079 Speaker 1: before we get into that, I did actually put out 21 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: a little lead last week for a SkyWatch on the 22 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,959 Speaker 1: Essex Suffolk border. If anyone's interested, I believe there are 23 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: still tickets left. I think there's a limit of fifty. 24 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: If you're interested. There all listen to this. 25 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,959 Speaker 3: You've all heard of close Encounters of the third kind, 26 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,039 Speaker 3: but are you aware there is a fifth? Close and 27 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 3: Counters of the Fifth Kind or CE five is centered 28 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:17,439 Speaker 3: around human initiated cosmic contact with our et frames designed 29 00:02:17,479 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 3: and promoted by doctor Stephen Greed since the nineties. Come 30 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 3: and try it for yourself and an event being held 31 00:02:23,039 --> 00:02:25,719 Speaker 3: on Saturday the third of August on the Boarder for 32 00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 3: Essex and Suffolk. To book your place, visit www sepe 33 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,599 Speaker 3: Hyphenagency dot com, s E p I Hyphenagency dot com. 34 00:02:36,599 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: Today spaces are limited, so. 35 00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: There it is. That's this coming Saturday, the third of August. 36 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: Let's ho the weather stays nice. Right on with the show. 37 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: My guest today is once again mister Mark Ollie, Hi Mark, 38 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. 39 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: Hi should be back again? 40 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: Well yeah, you're say, welcome back to the show. And 41 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,199 Speaker 1: also this is a part one part we're doing. We're 42 00:03:01,199 --> 00:03:03,319 Speaker 1: doing a Kevin Costa. I'll just I just mentioned they've 43 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,319 Speaker 1: been seeing Kevin Costa Western this afternoon and that's in 44 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,319 Speaker 1: two parts. But this is so this is a two 45 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: part epic. 46 00:03:09,439 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think we're going to do three 47 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:16,159 Speaker 2: hours apart the usual time. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to 48 00:03:16,319 --> 00:03:20,039 Speaker 2: look at the UK archaeological discoveries and mysteries and what 49 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: have you that I've run across, and then yeah, it's 50 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,039 Speaker 2: time beyond me. Time we got international it. 51 00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:25,759 Speaker 1: Yes, we're going to do the two parts of which 52 00:03:25,759 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: will go out of the UK and we'll go all 53 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: around the world, and I think we need to be 54 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: three hours for that one apparently, Yeah, we get into 55 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,199 Speaker 1: part three, you know, But anyway, I think we're going 56 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,919 Speaker 1: to concentrate on the UK today we've put it, and 57 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,199 Speaker 1: bring a few other bits that might connect it into 58 00:03:43,919 --> 00:03:46,199 Speaker 1: if they are a broader because something you get connections, 59 00:03:46,199 --> 00:03:49,439 Speaker 1: don't you, is the people if another country has built 60 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,439 Speaker 1: something over here or something. Yeah, I think we'll go 61 00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: into the eerie because I've titled the Eerie Archaeological Archaeological 62 00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:02,319 Speaker 1: the UK, So because I mean this is a paranormal show, 63 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,639 Speaker 1: people will be expected to hear about a few the 64 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: eerie aspects of you know, ghosts and haltings, and. 65 00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: I'll lean that way. Then I'll kind of go that 66 00:04:10,759 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: way with some of the stories. 67 00:04:12,199 --> 00:04:15,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, So I mean I'm not an 68 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:18,439 Speaker 1: expert on archaeology, so you're going to be doing most 69 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,319 Speaker 1: of the talking. So and I'm going to be learning 70 00:04:20,319 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: from you as I usually as I usually do. 71 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,639 Speaker 2: You're going to leave with some really good questions. But 72 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: yeah I can Yeah, yeah. 73 00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:28,959 Speaker 1: I might come up with a while or two. You 74 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: never know when when they put me to the head, 75 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: this little head I've got anyway, Mark starts off, well, 76 00:04:34,759 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: what would you say is probably the let's say the 77 00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:42,959 Speaker 1: eeriest or the town city maybe in the UK for 78 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:44,959 Speaker 1: for archaeology archaeological reasons. 79 00:04:45,399 --> 00:04:48,399 Speaker 2: Wow, gosh, Well, I've got to say there's there's a 80 00:04:48,399 --> 00:04:50,519 Speaker 2: tremendous number of cities that are built on top of 81 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: old cemeteries, absolutely without a doubt, and obviously obviously cemeteries 82 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,319 Speaker 2: above ground, like the famous ones in London and Edinburgh, 83 00:04:58,879 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: you know those kind of thing as places, they're super creepy, 84 00:05:02,319 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: but they're also super well known. So I tend to 85 00:05:06,319 --> 00:05:09,639 Speaker 2: lean more towards personal experience. As soon as you said, 86 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: you know, most creepy. I was on an ex when 87 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 2: I started off. It was an interesting story because I 88 00:05:19,959 --> 00:05:22,439 Speaker 2: started extremely young. I started digging with my dad when 89 00:05:22,439 --> 00:05:24,319 Speaker 2: I was only till of eight years old. He was 90 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,519 Speaker 2: a volunteer digger in the sixties and seventies, so he 91 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,319 Speaker 2: was on all kinds of different sites. He was doing 92 00:05:29,399 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: rome and he was doing medievally. You know, this area 93 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,319 Speaker 2: of the north is particularly well known for having there's 94 00:05:36,399 --> 00:05:39,199 Speaker 2: layers and layers and layers of it. But literally just 95 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 2: a few miles down the road from where we live here. 96 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: We didn't know at the time when I was fourteen, 97 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:50,319 Speaker 2: but they stumbled on an old priory. We didn't realize 98 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: this priory was there because they we decided they were 99 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,639 Speaker 2: going to build run called new Town and run on 100 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: new towns on this headland that juts out. And when 101 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: they started looking at the buildings and doing the survey 102 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: ready for building new houses, they walked into this stable 103 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 2: because that's it's quote stable, which was a bit of 104 00:06:08,399 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: a cowshed. It had loads of you know, animal muck 105 00:06:11,439 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 2: up to sort of oh terrible, I mean down cesspits 106 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:20,519 Speaker 2: and digging in all anyway. 107 00:06:20,639 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: I used to when I was about fifteen sixteen, I 108 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,319 Speaker 1: used to take your breath away. It's terrible. 109 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,079 Speaker 2: There was about twelve foot of this stuff that had 110 00:06:29,079 --> 00:06:31,759 Speaker 2: built up in this building. So but they could see 111 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: there was an undercroft, you know, the top of it 112 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,399 Speaker 2: looked like the form of an undercroft. Anyway, has this expanded. 113 00:06:37,439 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: What we didn't know at the time was it was 114 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: becoming the biggest medieval monastic dig in Europe. So it 115 00:06:45,319 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 2: was huge. I think it still is. I think it 116 00:06:47,079 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 2: still holds the record as the biggest one. And as 117 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 2: they gradually started to expand, this word creeped out through 118 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: the archaeology community that this was happening. Just down the road. 119 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: Now behind my house here, just just sort of up 120 00:07:00,519 --> 00:07:03,079 Speaker 2: the road is a canal. It's the Bridgewater Canal. It's 121 00:07:03,079 --> 00:07:05,959 Speaker 2: one of the oldest canals in the UK. Well, the 122 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 2: canal cuts straight through the top end of the priory grounds. 123 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: So me and a friend of mine one day we thought, right, 124 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,279 Speaker 2: we'll go off and we'll walk to it, you know, 125 00:07:14,319 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: we'll we'll walk down the canal and we'll just drop 126 00:07:16,399 --> 00:07:18,439 Speaker 2: in and see what they're doing. So we walked all 127 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,439 Speaker 2: the way down to this priory, which is known as 128 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,759 Speaker 2: Norton Priory, and we came in on the canal. So 129 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: then we start wandering round the dig site and at 130 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: this point it's already exciting. There's tons of buildings coming up. 131 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,639 Speaker 2: There's a massive monastic cemetery. They've got the cloisters, they've 132 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: got the main church, they've got coffins. You know, with 133 00:07:38,519 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: night ign you're on the top. Absolutely amazing. So we're 134 00:07:41,639 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: wandering around and then we bump into this guy with 135 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,439 Speaker 2: like a black uniform and two Doberman and he's like, 136 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,519 Speaker 2: what you're doing on here labs? And we're like, well 137 00:07:53,879 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: told in the story. So we've walked in. You know, 138 00:07:55,759 --> 00:07:58,079 Speaker 2: we heard about it, and you know, I do archaeology 139 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,879 Speaker 2: as a volunteer, and this, that and the other. He said, 140 00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: oh right, okay, I've got some meal needed to speak to. 141 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: So he took us to the site director. And it 142 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: turns out they were looking for volunteers, volunteer diggers, and 143 00:08:11,279 --> 00:08:14,879 Speaker 2: a lot of the volunteers were teenagers, you know, mid 144 00:08:14,959 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: teens and upper teens. So we joined the team. So 145 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: I ended up digging on Norton Priory for about four 146 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: or four or five years. But the punchline is about 147 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: around about the second or third year that I was 148 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,079 Speaker 2: digging on there, that particular season, they thought they would 149 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:32,519 Speaker 2: open all the graves up and you know, map all 150 00:08:32,519 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: the graves and have a look at the burials. And 151 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:39,759 Speaker 2: there's one point where I'm I'm actually digging on somebody's 152 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 2: rib cage, so I'm brushing this just the way and 153 00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: you could see this really dark skeleton coming up from 154 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: the earth below me. And then I remember, this is 155 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: this is going to gross you out. It's more gross 156 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,279 Speaker 2: than it is. I remember them blowing the lunchtime whistle. 157 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: Now back then, I mean this is nineteen seventeen, nineteen eighties. 158 00:09:00,159 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: Back then they didn't have all the health and safety 159 00:09:02,159 --> 00:09:03,919 Speaker 2: have got now. So I just kind of dusted hands, 160 00:09:04,519 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: you open me butty box and started into me butties. 161 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: You know, you can we exposed all sorts of stuff, 162 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: can't you. 163 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you just start eating me butties. But 164 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: when I looked up and I looked out, apparently apparently 165 00:09:15,759 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: I realized afterwards they had one hundred and sixty four 166 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: skeletons all under excavation, all at the same time. Christ 167 00:09:24,879 --> 00:09:26,799 Speaker 2: So like you're seeing these horror films, you know, as 168 00:09:26,799 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: far as they can see, it's just medieval burials everywhere. 169 00:09:31,159 --> 00:09:34,759 Speaker 1: I just said, that is a question with me. When 170 00:09:34,879 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: when does archaeology stop being graver robbied because well, because 171 00:09:40,279 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: there's a line, there's a very thin line. There isn't 172 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,159 Speaker 1: there where you've got to when you started digging graves up. 173 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: Well we didn't. 174 00:09:46,759 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: We didn't actually in order. 175 00:09:51,399 --> 00:09:54,799 Speaker 2: To answer it. I mean, everything that was on earth 176 00:09:55,039 --> 00:09:57,519 Speaker 2: was on earthed with the reason because what they wanted 177 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: to do was get a location and a size and 178 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 2: a shape for everything that was under the main church building. 179 00:10:03,799 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 2: So they needed to do all that because obviously there's 180 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: building work coming in and eventually they ended up preserving 181 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,399 Speaker 2: the site and opening it to members of the public. 182 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,639 Speaker 2: So you have to consider that. So the first thing 183 00:10:14,639 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 2: you do is you record it all. It's not like 184 00:10:16,919 --> 00:10:19,279 Speaker 2: tom robbing. It's not like you go in and smash everything. 185 00:10:19,279 --> 00:10:22,639 Speaker 2: The bit most of these graves have nothing in them, 186 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 2: I have to say that, just bodies. But the bodies 187 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: also have a story to tell. So Forensically, even as 188 00:10:29,639 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: long ago as the nineteen eighties, they were still aware 189 00:10:32,639 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: of the fact that these things held DNA, they held 190 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:40,279 Speaker 2: information about diseases, about family relationships, and a lot of them, 191 00:10:40,279 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: as it turned out, were night It's templar, so it 192 00:10:42,919 --> 00:10:48,879 Speaker 2: was really significant. It's the only Augustinian abbe to remain 193 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 2: that way throughout the whole of the medieval period. It 194 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: was the biggest one in Britain and it's the only 195 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:57,519 Speaker 2: one that's known that overlaps with the Welsh, so what 196 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,879 Speaker 2: you're looking at is Welsh templars. Unique. You know. It 197 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: was also very early Romanesque, so the very beginnings of 198 00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: Gothic architecture, the early stuff that begins with things like Naughton. 199 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,799 Speaker 2: It was only founded in ten eleven twenty seven, so 200 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,799 Speaker 2: in eleven twenty seven the whole thing was in its infancy. 201 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:18,799 Speaker 2: But the key with Norton is it was founded by 202 00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:23,759 Speaker 2: hud Peons, the grand master of the original Jerusalem Templars, 203 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: because he came over here and talked to all the 204 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:28,919 Speaker 2: nobles and barons and the nobles of Chester and the 205 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,519 Speaker 2: nobles of Holton and decided that was where they were 206 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: going to put the original starting foundation, if you like. 207 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: Most of the others changed to Cistercian, but this one 208 00:11:38,159 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: stayed as Augustinian. So the amount of respect and the 209 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,799 Speaker 2: level of care that's going on there was phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal, 210 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 2: and again different again from Grave Robin. What they did 211 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: was they took all the bodies as individual units and 212 00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 2: then lifted them to get them out of the way 213 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: so they no longer capable of being damaged or disturbed. 214 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 2: They were then stored properly correctly in a facility underneath 215 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,279 Speaker 2: I believe it's Liverpool Museum. It's in their storage facility. 216 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: All the bones were studded and as far as I know, 217 00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:13,919 Speaker 2: they were then all reburied, so they've all gone back 218 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 2: to another monastic foundation. Yeah. Yeah, now that that process, 219 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: I mean nowadays, if you did it now, it would 220 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: just be ridiculously expensive. You know, they did it for 221 00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:27,039 Speaker 2: the railways in London. They had to lift a lot 222 00:12:27,039 --> 00:12:30,279 Speaker 2: of cemeteries down there, and that procedure, which we were 223 00:12:30,279 --> 00:12:34,159 Speaker 2: developing in the late seventies early eighties, that proceeding now 224 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: has developed even further so it's it's a million miles away, 225 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: a million miles away from from grave robbing. 226 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is for the listeners. 227 00:12:44,879 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: It's more for the listeners. 228 00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: No, it's something that's always I've always had a question 229 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,799 Speaker 1: there because when when do you actually draw that line? 230 00:12:51,879 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: But when when it's acceptable to dig a grave up 231 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: for the sake of archaeology. 232 00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:01,159 Speaker 2: Basically nowadays you have to have a damn good reason. 233 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,519 Speaker 2: I'm in a sort of offshoot of em Resto Law's 234 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 2: Druid Order, which is honoring the ancient dead, and we 235 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 2: deal with that side of things. If there's something going 236 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,759 Speaker 2: on that we feel is inappropriate, we will step in. 237 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,879 Speaker 2: If it's done scientifically, and it's done, you know, with 238 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 2: reverence and attention to their original belief system and where 239 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: the things are found, then that in a sense is acceptable, 240 00:13:24,519 --> 00:13:28,519 Speaker 2: especially so if you're saving those remains, if it's a 241 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 2: choice between they either get destroyed or they get preserved 242 00:13:32,159 --> 00:13:35,879 Speaker 2: for future generations, I think that's also a consideration. I 243 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:37,759 Speaker 2: mean in terms of grave Robin. I mean, you could 244 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,639 Speaker 2: nick the jewelry, or you can nick whatever. 245 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: Which has happened in places we're probably talking about this 246 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:48,039 Speaker 1: when we do the show, but the Egypt and. 247 00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:51,879 Speaker 2: Nowadays. Nowadays you get more information out of the teeth. 248 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: The teeth is a valuable because they contain DNA, They 249 00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:57,519 Speaker 2: contain you know, the whole life history of the person. 250 00:13:57,519 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: It can tell you where they were born, you know. 251 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: The the human remains, which in the past were just 252 00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:06,279 Speaker 2: cast aside, now actually takes center stage. I mean, to 253 00:14:06,279 --> 00:14:08,159 Speaker 2: be honest with the museums are full of you know, 254 00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: coins and brooches and gold things. You know, there's no 255 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,879 Speaker 2: need to do that anymore. So so it's driven by needs. 256 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,639 Speaker 2: And also the end results are different, I think from 257 00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:19,919 Speaker 2: the way the public perceive it. You know, it's a 258 00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: different approach. But it was funny the way we did 259 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: it because they just did them all at once. Nowadays 260 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:25,879 Speaker 2: that have moved down that the site you know in 261 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,879 Speaker 2: perhaps in rows, they really had the time to do 262 00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: it back then, so they just did the whole lot 263 00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: and go. There's been so many skeletons, you know, it's 264 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 2: quite spooky as well. If we didn't finish till late 265 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,759 Speaker 2: at nights. He sort of sat, Yeah, you know these 266 00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:42,159 Speaker 2: skulls staring up at. 267 00:14:42,039 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: You know, an early interaction to all that sort of 268 00:14:47,159 --> 00:14:50,399 Speaker 1: stuffy I mean, yeah, what almost fascinates from England with 269 00:14:50,519 --> 00:14:54,679 Speaker 1: these archaelloginal sites. How deep and you know the layers 270 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: of soil that goes over the top of them, and 271 00:14:57,639 --> 00:14:59,919 Speaker 1: how they managed to you know, do they sink or 272 00:15:00,519 --> 00:15:04,679 Speaker 1: I get I always wonder how where I get so 273 00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:06,679 Speaker 1: much stuff over the top of it. 274 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,799 Speaker 2: You know, it's a mixture of things. I mean, I 275 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,879 Speaker 2: before I got into archaeology yesterday geology, because I felt 276 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:14,279 Speaker 2: that the two were sort of hand in hand. If 277 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: that did at the same time, as I was qualifying 278 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: at one, I was looking at the other as well, 279 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,279 Speaker 2: I was doing both at once. What happens is you 280 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: get you get deposits coming down in the rain, you 281 00:15:23,919 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: get wind blown deposits, you get deposits coming through nature, 282 00:15:27,519 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: so you get leaves, you get all this stuff. Bran, 283 00:15:29,799 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 2: she's coming down and all that. Occasionally there's rubbish involved. 284 00:15:34,039 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 2: So then you do actually get a layer building up, 285 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:43,039 Speaker 2: things like grass, natural groundcover that will start to yeah, 286 00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: puts another layer on top. Occasionally you do get things sinking, 287 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,039 Speaker 2: things do settle, and that'll push them deeper down. But 288 00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:53,279 Speaker 2: Norton was a good example. One of the reasons it 289 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,159 Speaker 2: was under threat is it was literally that the depth 290 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,559 Speaker 2: of the church floor it was only about toward ten 291 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,919 Speaker 2: inches off the grass, so it's extremely close to the 292 00:16:03,919 --> 00:16:07,039 Speaker 2: top and that was something they had to consider. And 293 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: then obviously they lifted the floors and the burials were 294 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: below that, but you're only talking sort of in the 295 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,679 Speaker 2: top two or three feet of ground. It was incredibly 296 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,879 Speaker 2: close to the surface, and that's what made it dangerous, 297 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,279 Speaker 2: you know, there's still there's still a field with burials 298 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: in close to the site, and the farmer is not 299 00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: allowed to put live stock on there because of that danger. 300 00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: If you had cows, you know, cattle and horses churning 301 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: the ground up, you need twelve to eighteen inches of 302 00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:36,639 Speaker 2: clearance before it starts damaging what's below. So that was 303 00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: another thing that came out. 304 00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: So that's his own lanes that he can't. 305 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, he can't. It's still his land and he won't 306 00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: let anybody excavate it. I don't know why. He's just 307 00:16:45,159 --> 00:16:47,399 Speaker 2: a bit, you know, sort of stuck in his mind 308 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,399 Speaker 2: that that's how it's going to be. But it's it's 309 00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: a closed site. You can't build on it and you 310 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,799 Speaker 2: can't put live stock on it or anything else that 311 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,879 Speaker 2: involves churning up the ground because it's a Grade one 312 00:16:56,919 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: listed site. But that's kind of the other alternative. You 313 00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: had both of them side by side. You had one 314 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: full excavation and rescue, and then you had the other 315 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 2: side of it, which was you can't touch it because 316 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 2: we're leaving it where it is. So that kind of 317 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 2: gives you both sides of the coin. You know, there's 318 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: there's both were in evidence at norm fantastic dig I 319 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: think they're still chipping away at it now. There's the 320 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: little bits of it keep popping up from time to time. 321 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,279 Speaker 2: Great and so to the public people can go visit it. 322 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: Really, if I was that farm, it as much funny 323 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,799 Speaker 1: as I could off that end, you know, excavated and everything, and. 324 00:17:35,279 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 2: It usually costs more than you ever hope to make. 325 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you never know what's going to be dug out, 326 00:17:40,039 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: do you know, you have no idea what's treasure? All 327 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:43,559 Speaker 1: sorts of treasures. 328 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 2: Could be internationally important artifacts down there, but they're probably 329 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,039 Speaker 2: going to be slightly deeper than you'd get with the 330 00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:54,519 Speaker 2: metal detector. The field can't be detected anyway. It's it's 331 00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: a listed international protected site, so you would get to 332 00:17:57,839 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: find thousands if you went on there. 333 00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:03,319 Speaker 1: So is there no deep seeking equipment that can be 334 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,039 Speaker 1: sort of scanned over the stop of it just to 335 00:18:06,079 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: sort of get a look at it all? 336 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can. You can float into ground penetrating radar 337 00:18:10,599 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 2: which will give you a sort of half decent image, 338 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: but that that varies according to the ground conditions. Metal 339 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: detectors are kind of a yes or a no. You know, 340 00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:22,599 Speaker 2: is it metal or isn't it? Does any metal? Little 341 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,319 Speaker 2: hit it ground radar, It's subject to all the features, 342 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,799 Speaker 2: all the disturbances, ground water, you know, whether it's wet 343 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 2: or dry, what's going on, what what the cover is, 344 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,279 Speaker 2: you know, so it's it's not as it's not as 345 00:18:35,279 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 2: easy or cheap. I think they've got a pretty good 346 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 2: idea what's under this field though. I think they think 347 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 2: that's where all the sort of big wigs in the 348 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: church was buried, you know, the abbots and all that 349 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,279 Speaker 2: sort of thing. I think they're all buried in this field. 350 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: So there'll be something some impressive stone coffins, but. 351 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: It would be quite impressive. Thought. Yeah, so you never 352 00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: know why maybe oh yeah, to get the call so 353 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: if anyone wants to, if anyone's listening, So where do 354 00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:10,559 Speaker 1: we go from HEREDI mark? Is so next one of 355 00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: your personal experiences of your early personal experience. 356 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's a few. There's a few like that. 357 00:19:17,799 --> 00:19:20,599 Speaker 2: I also ended up digging Warrington Friary, which is right 358 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 2: in the center of Warrington town. And again that was 359 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 2: another one that involved excavating bodies and I think a 360 00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 2: lot of those they left in situ. But there's a 361 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:35,279 Speaker 2: lot of spooky ghost stories associated with town Center. One 362 00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:37,279 Speaker 2: of the famous ones you're going to love this the 363 00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 2: lower part of the buildings stretched down towards the River Mersey, 364 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 2: and a very very famous but very old story was 365 00:19:46,039 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 2: they came to build the new telephone exchange on the 366 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: site of this old building. Now this thing is a 367 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 2: big concrete monstrosity, you know, with lifts in it and 368 00:19:55,759 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 2: electrical supply and it's all made of nineteen seventies concrete. 369 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:03,559 Speaker 2: Almost from day one they had weird stuff going on 370 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,599 Speaker 2: in different rooms at different levels. And the very famous 371 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 2: one was very often you saw it literally a monk 372 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,759 Speaker 2: dressed as a monk. You couldn't see his face because 373 00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 2: his odd was up, but you know, with the belt 374 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 2: tied around his waist in like a black, brown or 375 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,319 Speaker 2: gray sort of overthing, and he'd float through the room. 376 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 2: And this is like an office building, you know, so 377 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 2: people would see him. Caretakers security in that and what 378 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 2: he seemed to like to do was float through the 379 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,599 Speaker 2: room into the lift and then go up and. 380 00:20:31,559 --> 00:20:34,079 Speaker 1: Down in the lift in the building. 381 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,759 Speaker 2: That is quite a famous one from the Friary from 382 00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 2: Warrington Friary, the ghost in the left the monk in 383 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:41,319 Speaker 2: the lift. 384 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:42,279 Speaker 1: That's quite fun. 385 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: Here. 386 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: Quite a few like monks and things like that, and 387 00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:52,519 Speaker 1: NaNs haunted, you know, or bickers or whatever. That's Would 388 00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: you think that a lot of the churches all over 389 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,079 Speaker 1: the country have probably got haunted. I think most of 390 00:20:57,079 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: them have got hauntings, haven't they? Sort a couple here 391 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: around the here even there there's a scull that manka 392 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: that they talk about. 393 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we've got a very famous burial ground here. 394 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,039 Speaker 2: It's on the hill behind me. It's it's called Highcliffe 395 00:21:12,079 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 2: Hill or Hillcliff, and it's interesting because the main gate, 396 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,279 Speaker 2: the main structure that you enter is at the top 397 00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:20,559 Speaker 2: of the hill and the church is at the bottom. 398 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 2: So it's known as an inverted cemetery. And there aren't 399 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,759 Speaker 2: many of them. I think they're in single figures. And 400 00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 2: this is quite famous because there was a shootout between 401 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,319 Speaker 2: the Royalists and the cavaliers round edge of the Cavaliers 402 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 2: back in the Civil War, and that took place over 403 00:21:35,519 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 2: this cemetery. Oliver Cromwell apparently was preaching down at the 404 00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 2: church at the bottom of the hill and these these 405 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 2: these guys, the Royalists, came over the top attacked him 406 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,839 Speaker 2: and attacked his camp, and they gave Chase and gave 407 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 2: Chase back over the top of the hill. So again 408 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: that gave rise to another famous ghost story. If you 409 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 2: go down the road at the back, the last skirmish 410 00:21:57,079 --> 00:21:59,559 Speaker 2: happened at the bottom of the road, and it's said 411 00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 2: that at the end the thing that stopped it was 412 00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 2: that Oliver Cromwell's white horse was shot away from under him. 413 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 2: And the story goes that if you go down there, 414 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 2: of course on a moonlit night, and you go to 415 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 2: the right spot on the road, you'll see the ghost 416 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 2: of Oliver Cromwell's white horse. So that's quite a famous one. 417 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 2: But the thing with cemeteries is you don't tend to 418 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 2: get roving, ghostly scary things in burial grounds. It's actually 419 00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:30,039 Speaker 2: quite rare to have a proper full on haunted cemetery. 420 00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: I used to go wandering through cemeteries on Halloween at midnight, 421 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,279 Speaker 2: you know, just to can't approve. Yeah. Yeah, of all 422 00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 2: the places you're going to find a dead person, the 423 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,799 Speaker 2: cemetery is probably the last place, you know. But if 424 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 2: you build stuff on it, or you disturb it in 425 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 2: some way, that can that really to trigger things off 426 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: you know I've already said, you know, excavation, military conflict, 427 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,519 Speaker 2: you know, building a building on top not a good idea. 428 00:22:53,759 --> 00:22:56,319 Speaker 2: You know. They seem to like the burial grounds to 429 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 2: be left well alone. 430 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose when you think about it, it's like 431 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: a place to eternal rists of it. So there would 432 00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: there would be a place where you'd want to risk 433 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: and not sort of be disturbing anything until some disturbed 434 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: cube were building something on it. 435 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 2: Well exactly, and in the past there were a lot 436 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: more hardcore with that. You know, they tended to leave 437 00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:16,799 Speaker 2: all these sites alone. So a lot of them have 438 00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 2: only been destroyed in let's say the last undred, one 439 00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:24,079 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years. I mean it's Industrial revolution times 440 00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: have caused the damage, you know, So you cain of 441 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 2: burial grounds that are two three four thousand years old. 442 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 2: A good example of this house that I live in, 443 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,799 Speaker 2: because it's actually built on a Romano Celtic burial ground. 444 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,839 Speaker 2: So we've got Anglo Saxon and Roman and Celtic burials 445 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,279 Speaker 2: right underneath the building. Front and back garden goes out 446 00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 2: for a couple of square miles in each direction because 447 00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 2: the main Roman road comes past the front of here. Well, 448 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: this was built in nineteen twenty five, so it's in 449 00:23:50,039 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 2: that period when they didn't really seem to give a 450 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,319 Speaker 2: toss about where they built. Disturb you know, has so 451 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: many stories of builders building things and finding skeletons and 452 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,279 Speaker 2: burials and just fill in them in, just putting them 453 00:24:01,319 --> 00:24:03,039 Speaker 2: in with the building rubble and leaving them, you know, 454 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 2: because it would stop the building process, you know. 455 00:24:06,519 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet there's quite a few murders were committed 456 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,079 Speaker 1: as well, you know, before he had the days of 457 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: DNA testing and all that and people. You know, we've 458 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,799 Speaker 1: already heard about the famous burderers and where they buried 459 00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:21,599 Speaker 1: things in the wall or under the floor boards or 460 00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:22,599 Speaker 1: in the garden or something. 461 00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:25,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to think about illogically, you would expect 462 00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 2: a burial ground is the best place to hide a body, 463 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,799 Speaker 2: you know, but what seems to have happened is almost 464 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: the reverse. There's a lot of burial grounds where you 465 00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: had body snatchers. So I did archaeology on another church 466 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 2: or something in the north of England, one down at Warburton. 467 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 2: And at Warburton there's a whole drilled in the church 468 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,759 Speaker 2: door and what they would do is they'd sit inside 469 00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: with one of these blunderbust guns and every time anyone 470 00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:51,319 Speaker 2: was buried, they would look through the hole waiting for 471 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 2: the body snatchers to come and dig them up. And 472 00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 2: that's archaeology again, you know. And a lot of the 473 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,519 Speaker 2: graves were robbed, bodies were taken, you know, injury and 474 00:25:00,759 --> 00:25:04,039 Speaker 2: all this kind of thing. Yeah, no, the attitude really 475 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 2: changed dramatically in the eighteen and nineteen hundreds. 476 00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: What about High Gates Cemetery? Did you ever have you 477 00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: know in London? Did you ever come to that one 478 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: Highgate Cemetry? I've heard there's a couple of ghosts that 479 00:25:16,559 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: do haunt that. I don't know what ones they are, actually, 480 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,079 Speaker 1: but I know it's been mentioned. 481 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: It's on my to do list. It's very famous. I 482 00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: think there was a Highgate vampire. 483 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: Well, if you don't do it, give us a shout. 484 00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: I'll go with you. Oh yeah, because I always. 485 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 2: Don't brave you less. Yes, we don't have a look 486 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 2: at on bike or something, you know, to get going there. 487 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: We'll get the platform if we talk about congestion and 488 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 2: all that. 489 00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, i'd love to. 490 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 2: I'd love to go and have a look. 491 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,559 Speaker 1: But I've always wanted to go. 492 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 2: Actually, so I'm pretty sure there's vampires in case of 493 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:52,279 Speaker 2: the High Game. 494 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that there are a couple of 495 00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:58,519 Speaker 1: creepy stories, no doubt. There's a few books out there 496 00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:01,799 Speaker 1: on it. Let's have a little Google to see. 497 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 2: I mean, if you ever, if you ever go off 498 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 2: into if you have a holiday in Wales and you 499 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 2: go look at any of the little cemeteries in Wales, 500 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 2: there's some brilliantly creepy ones out there that really that 501 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 2: have not been accessed for for a long long time, 502 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 2: and they're equally as good as igates. 503 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, weight of Cornwall, actually we visit the capital 504 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,279 Speaker 1: of the old churches. You know, there was a there 505 00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:24,839 Speaker 1: was a lovely little church actually was a little graveyard around. 506 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,319 Speaker 1: It was really picturesque was but inside the church itself 507 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,759 Speaker 1: was very very tiny. I can't remember what was pretty 508 00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: good here somewhere, but yeah, it was lovely. It was 509 00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: you could just sort of wandering and you know, it's. 510 00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:39,759 Speaker 2: The Celtic chapel thing, because they always have a tiny chapel. 511 00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: It's small. So if you go sort of Whales Islands, Scotland, 512 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,079 Speaker 2: you know, and Cornwall, because obviously that's the Celtic side 513 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 2: of things. You know, they always have these tiny chapels 514 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: dotted around all over the place, you know, some fantastic ones. 515 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: We dug on. We dug on one. Back to the 516 00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:59,599 Speaker 2: topic in hand, we did a Saint Bueno's chapel, which 517 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 2: is just outside Core and nobody actually knew where that was, 518 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,559 Speaker 2: and we spent a whole week searching one particular site 519 00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 2: where it was thought to be. And it's typical, typical 520 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,519 Speaker 2: of archaeological digs. You get to the last day and 521 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: you know you've only got you know, so many hours 522 00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:18,279 Speaker 2: before sunset, and that's it. And then somebody came running 523 00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:22,319 Speaker 2: in and said, we found some foundations. They're boulders. So 524 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 2: we think we've got the outline of the chapel. We 525 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,799 Speaker 2: think we know where it is, and we've been digging 526 00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 2: in completely the wrong place. But anyway, when we survey ed, 527 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: it turned out that was more than likely what we 528 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: were looking for, and it was just off the site, 529 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,319 Speaker 2: which was quite nice because it meant it was protected. 530 00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 2: The bit we were on was going to be opened 531 00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:42,319 Speaker 2: up to development. But St. Bonos Chapel, I've got a 532 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 2: very good idea where that is. 533 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: Was that disappointing to point you were digging in the 534 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: wrong place or was it something that you accept. 535 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,759 Speaker 2: It kind of goes with the territory. The bit where 536 00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 2: you were on what we Bueno's Chapel is proper Celtic, 537 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,599 Speaker 2: so you look in you know, six seven, eight hundred AD, 538 00:27:58,799 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 2: that sort of you know, three figure period. What we 539 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 2: were on was monastic, so it looked to be more 540 00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 2: like eleven, twelve, thirteen hundreds, so in the four figures there. 541 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,079 Speaker 2: But nevertheless, I mean to find something that's medieval and 542 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,519 Speaker 2: then to unearth that and to plan that. That did 543 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,559 Speaker 2: change the way they developed the site at that point. 544 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,279 Speaker 2: It was back in nineteen ninety nine. We did it. 545 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,799 Speaker 2: They redeveloped the house, rebuilt it, rebuilt the whole enclosure. 546 00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 2: But hopefully, with a bit of luck, they left the 547 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 2: bit that was outside that they left that bit alone. 548 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 2: So that was a success story. And if you like, 549 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 2: we also found a couple of burial mounds that they 550 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,559 Speaker 2: didn't know were there, and Corhen and d Valley Cadvasti 551 00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:43,319 Speaker 2: Archaeology group down there have excavated one recently that we found. 552 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,119 Speaker 2: It was half of one in a field boundary and 553 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,559 Speaker 2: that's turned out to be quite significant. That's Bronze age. 554 00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:53,279 Speaker 2: It's a Bronze Age burial, so archaeology sort of breeds archaeology, 555 00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 2: if you know what I mean. Going you know, it 556 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 2: just it just balloons. 557 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fever. 558 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And what's your pinpoint? Where the 559 00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 2: sites are? Only got so much time to do each site? 560 00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 2: They can take years. You know, it's what nineteen ninety 561 00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:11,039 Speaker 2: nine we were on there, and it was twenty thirteen 562 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 2: they were digging on there. So you know it's you know, 563 00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:17,359 Speaker 2: took fourteen fifteen. It's for more than that, twenty four 564 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 2: to twenty five years to do the whole of that 565 00:29:20,119 --> 00:29:22,839 Speaker 2: area and really sort of do it justice. 566 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,599 Speaker 1: I guess the weather could have fit that as well. 567 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,079 Speaker 1: Carn it. Yeah, no, in this country, you know, you 568 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,359 Speaker 1: never know where you get a downpour of rain or whatever. 569 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: And I suppose if you get a big downpour of rain, 570 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: it actually stops everything for a few days then thought. 571 00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:39,599 Speaker 2: It can do exit. It floods the trenches and some 572 00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: sites are how can I call it dirt sensitive, So 573 00:29:43,559 --> 00:29:45,519 Speaker 2: you can't just go in there and just go you 574 00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:47,839 Speaker 2: know what I mean, You can't splurge across the site 575 00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:50,359 Speaker 2: because you're looking for different colors. You know, the brown 576 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,599 Speaker 2: birt's the foundation, the gray dirty floor surface, the orange 577 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 2: sandy dirt is the bit underneath, you know, and so 578 00:29:56,839 --> 00:29:58,559 Speaker 2: on and so on, and you've got to be able 579 00:29:58,599 --> 00:30:01,039 Speaker 2: to tell the differences and see the hatterens. So it 580 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,799 Speaker 2: doesn't hate rain because it just mud. It's terrible, terrible. 581 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: Age is for it to dry out and ages to 582 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 2: clean it off afterwards. Yeah, these are things people don't 583 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,839 Speaker 2: think about, you know, of archaeology. 584 00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, or club that Wellington's, I can imagine, Oh you 585 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:22,079 Speaker 1: don't want to kneel in it. You mentioned that the 586 00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:25,799 Speaker 1: Knights Templar, which is quite a fascinating subject in this country. 587 00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: Is there a lot of information about not Simpler that 588 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,319 Speaker 1: is actually hidden still here? Or is it still or 589 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:36,359 Speaker 1: is it readily available? 590 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,319 Speaker 2: Okay, the answer is both yes and no, because in 591 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,319 Speaker 2: the yes sense, there are certain sites that have had 592 00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of work done on them. People focus 593 00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: on them. So any site that begins temple so you know, Temple, Kun, Temple, whatever, 594 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:56,079 Speaker 2: they've focused on those sites and they've generally tended to 595 00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 2: get lots of information. That having been said that no 596 00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 2: side of it. There's a huge number of sites that 597 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 2: are either missing, or they're not recording properly, or they 598 00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: only appear on a state map, so nobody's actually gone 599 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 2: out and looked at them. We did a sign Derbyshire. 600 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,559 Speaker 2: There was one particular house just outside Buxton and it 601 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: looked very suspiciously like there were medieval buildings of some 602 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: kind there and possibly a prehistoric landscape. There was a 603 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: few chambered things and what have you, and we ended 604 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,319 Speaker 2: up finding the oldest lime kiln in Buxton. It was 605 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 2: an early medieval, so you're talking late ten hundreds, early 606 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 2: eleven hundreds, this big kiln structure. It's an amazing thing 607 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,279 Speaker 2: because when we actually opened the door, you go inside 608 00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 2: proper raids as the lost arc, you know. But then 609 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 2: we got into Chatsworth House and we had a look 610 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: at chats with library. We had a look at their 611 00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: records for land ownership, and it turns out the little 612 00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:54,759 Speaker 2: enclosure that we didn't think was particularly significant socking great 613 00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: big templar crosses all over it, you know. So it 614 00:31:57,319 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: was part of the Derbyshire Templar Conclave. And that's that's 615 00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 2: what those areas where people just didn't even know the 616 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:07,599 Speaker 2: templars were there. You actually go all the way back 617 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,279 Speaker 2: to the earlier state maps. It's a little bit similar 618 00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:14,599 Speaker 2: with the hospital is not quite as obscure, but templars. Yeah, 619 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,319 Speaker 2: So this half of it I wouldn't probably bother spending 620 00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 2: any more time on because it's been well and truly done. 621 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,039 Speaker 2: But the adventure isn't over. There's still another half that's 622 00:32:24,119 --> 00:32:27,519 Speaker 2: out there, and there's a lot of it still needs finding. 623 00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: Wales in particular, we know there were templars in Wales, 624 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:31,759 Speaker 2: but nobody knows where the hell they were. 625 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've heard that they actually worked eventually 626 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,599 Speaker 1: worked into the freemason area. Is it actually true? Do 627 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,799 Speaker 1: you know that evidence of it? 628 00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:46,519 Speaker 2: Well, i'll give you I'll give you a brief history 629 00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 2: of that. When the Pope sided with the French king 630 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,079 Speaker 2: and said right, I'm doing away with the templars in 631 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 2: thirteen fourteen in this country, the Edwards rather liked the kings, 632 00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,599 Speaker 2: the Edward Kings rather like the Templars, and they gave 633 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,079 Speaker 2: them thirty four years to get out of the way. 634 00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 2: So they gradually the templars vanished into Wales, Island and 635 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 2: Scotland because then they're out of the reach of the pope, 636 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,359 Speaker 2: so you can be excommunicated and hunted down in England 637 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: but not in Wales, Island or Scotland. Scotland is particularly 638 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,279 Speaker 2: interesting when it comes to the Masonic side of it 639 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,599 Speaker 2: because the third if you look at the clan burial grounds, 640 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 2: there's a distinctive type of knights burial. It's like a 641 00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 2: too stone with the knight on top, you know, with 642 00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:34,279 Speaker 2: the shield, sword, the armor. Well, you've got them. Basically, 643 00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 2: you've got these burials. They start in the late ten 644 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 2: hundreds because they're Viking in origin, and then they go 645 00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 2: full on templar. You got full on templar burials for 646 00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:46,599 Speaker 2: the eleven hundreds, the twelve hundreds and the thirteen hundreds. 647 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 2: And this is where it gets interesting because then they 648 00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 2: carry on into the fourteen hundreds, the fifteen hundreds, and 649 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:57,519 Speaker 2: to some extent the sixteen hundreds. It's an unbroken line. 650 00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 2: You can see the way they're doing them. Well. The 651 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,519 Speaker 2: implication is that the Masons adopted the templars in Scotland 652 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: in either the fourteen hundreds or the fifteen hundreds, so 653 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 2: you can actually pinpoint and overlap. Most people don't realize 654 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,159 Speaker 2: that the clan burial grounds are the key to it, 655 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 2: but you can see stylistically building wise. Rossi Chapel is 656 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,559 Speaker 2: a good example because Rosslyn is fifteenth century most is 657 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:27,039 Speaker 2: fourteen hundreds. That's one hundred years after the templars should 658 00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 2: have gone. The iconography in there gives it away as 659 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 2: having massive templar influence because it never went away. So 660 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 2: there is some There is definitely some evidence that practicing 661 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 2: templars drifted into. 662 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,119 Speaker 1: The came a secret society type of that, which eventually 663 00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:47,199 Speaker 1: turned into a lot of Freemasons where the Masons came from, 664 00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:51,519 Speaker 1: say entirely that way, but I think the Masons came 665 00:34:51,559 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: from the Masons. 666 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 2: If that so, what were originally Masons worked in Freestone. 667 00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 2: I think that we've got evidence that that gradually developed 668 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 2: into from I mean, it's a. 669 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,199 Speaker 1: Bit like I'm not saying I'm not saying the mafia, 670 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: but you know, in a mafia turned into like legal 671 00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:13,119 Speaker 1: businesses and stuff and worked into the normal way of 672 00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: life thing. So it's kind of like that wor. 673 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 2: The temples didn't really have anywhere to go so ended 674 00:35:20,039 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 2: up going off to the hospitalers. But both templars and 675 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 2: the hospitals fords really strong connections with freemasonry, and you 676 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,280 Speaker 2: can see it. You know, you can see it. It's there. 677 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,679 Speaker 2: It's there in some of the Masons documents as well. 678 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 2: You can actually see there as an overlap. 679 00:35:34,199 --> 00:35:36,599 Speaker 1: Must apologize turning members of the mafia that are listening, 680 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:39,639 Speaker 1: and any. 681 00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:42,119 Speaker 2: Masons that don't want to see. I don't think we're 682 00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 2: giving any secret. 683 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,559 Speaker 1: We're gonna get chopped off. So, I mean these old buildings, 684 00:35:49,639 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: you think that they can actually take on the persona 685 00:35:54,159 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: of the people that lived there, so they become a hauntytail, 686 00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: so that you get a recording within them, with the 687 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,159 Speaker 1: within the buildings type of thing. 688 00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:06,599 Speaker 2: Well, the short answer is more likely. Yes, there's a 689 00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 2: lot of scientific evidence to show quartz in particular, if 690 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,079 Speaker 2: you get quartz buildings in the structure. Quartz is known 691 00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:17,679 Speaker 2: to be some kind of a recorder. It has memory 692 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 2: qualities in it. You know, it's in this computer, it's 693 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:24,119 Speaker 2: in glass, it's in everything. It's in you know, silicon's 694 00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 2: in microchips. So it clearly there is more to it. 695 00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 2: The thing we don't get, the thing we don't understand 696 00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 2: is what sets it off, what triggers it off and 697 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 2: puts it into replay. But there's an awful lot of 698 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,519 Speaker 2: people in paranormal generally that would agree with the statement 699 00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:41,079 Speaker 2: that there is something in the building or about the 700 00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 2: location of the building that is attracting those energies and 701 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,559 Speaker 2: attracting those spirits there this one. I live in the 702 00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:49,679 Speaker 2: haunted house. I live in. It functions a bit like 703 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,639 Speaker 2: a portal, because sometimes you've got stuff here and sometimes 704 00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:55,599 Speaker 2: you haven't. Sometimes it depends on the person, you know, 705 00:36:55,679 --> 00:36:58,119 Speaker 2: that can stir it all up. When we had the 706 00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:01,639 Speaker 2: builders in, it was just crazy. You know. We had apparitions, 707 00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:04,599 Speaker 2: we had things flying around. We had really well in 708 00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:07,679 Speaker 2: tools down that disappeared and reappeared three days later, you know. 709 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 2: And these are guys, rough, tough construction workers. You know. 710 00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:14,679 Speaker 2: One guy waved to a fellow in the window here 711 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 2: that he thought was my dad, and it wasn't. My 712 00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: dad was at the back synk here doing the up, 713 00:37:19,519 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 2: you know, and it was he described the ghost that 714 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 2: we have here. We have a guy in a sort 715 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,559 Speaker 2: of a tweed suit jacket with a pocket watch and 716 00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:30,159 Speaker 2: a flat hat. Sometimes he's seen with the flat hat, 717 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 2: sometimes he's not. But it was this guy, this guy 718 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 2: that we're quite familiar with, and we just said to him. 719 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 2: We just said, yeah, he's been here for the last 720 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,199 Speaker 2: you know, as long as we've been here forty to 721 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,199 Speaker 2: fifty years. He's a ghost. 722 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:40,519 Speaker 1: You know. 723 00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 2: It's that where we are, it's the location, it's the 724 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 2: orientation of the building, and like you say, it's the 725 00:37:47,559 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 2: fabric itself. You know. 726 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,199 Speaker 1: So what you got is that actually an actual ghost 727 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: or is it a recording other building in the buildings 728 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,639 Speaker 1: you think, Well, in. 729 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 2: Our case here we think the function as ghosts. I 730 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 2: don't think the recordings because they do different things each 731 00:38:03,079 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 2: time they're seen, and they interact with objects and with 732 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 2: people and animal So something's going on here more like 733 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,280 Speaker 2: a portal. Things come and go, you know, they're not 734 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,679 Speaker 2: here all the time we've I don't think we've ever 735 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 2: had anything repeat, nothing's ever happened the same twice. But 736 00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,199 Speaker 2: there's been loads seen. You know, we have all sorts 737 00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 2: of stuff happening. 738 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for people out there at An example 739 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,679 Speaker 1: of that is if people see Roman soldiers but marching 740 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,159 Speaker 1: along with a we're in a building it and they 741 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,039 Speaker 1: don't sit, they don't seem to notice anyone around them 742 00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:38,079 Speaker 1: or whatever, and they seem to be on a different 743 00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:40,079 Speaker 1: level like the original level of the building. 744 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 2: When I mentioned the cemetery on the hill. Here we 745 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 2: have a stone cutting at the back and there's Roman 746 00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:47,559 Speaker 2: soldiers said to march across that, and they could. They 747 00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:50,280 Speaker 2: come across kind of knee height in the road, and 748 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,519 Speaker 2: they come diagonally across from one gap in the sandstone 749 00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 2: to another. They're always seen going in the same direction, 750 00:38:57,079 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 2: the same height, same thing. And it seems to be 751 00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 2: on reap play. And that's been seen quite a lot, 752 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:03,599 Speaker 2: you know, over the years. 753 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,159 Speaker 1: Ghost to be like a recording plane. 754 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a good argument that's a replay rather than 755 00:39:11,159 --> 00:39:15,519 Speaker 2: a conscious conscious entity. There was a great one and 756 00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 2: I did. I did the Disappearing Ninth Legion, which is York, 757 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 2: and there's I interviewed the farmer on this farm site 758 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 2: and he's quite famous for a different story. I mean, 759 00:39:27,519 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 2: we yes, we've got the Romans walking through the basement 760 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 2: in the Treasurer's house. Everybody knows about that one. But 761 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,199 Speaker 2: this farmer told me this great story that's in my 762 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,039 Speaker 2: Ninth Legion book. And he said he was looking out 763 00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 2: of his kitchen window one night and he looks onto 764 00:39:40,519 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 2: the square and he's got sort of a barn off 765 00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 2: to the right from his house, and he said he 766 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,559 Speaker 2: could see a light on in the barn, so he thought, 767 00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:50,519 Speaker 2: I bet the wife's left the lights on or something 768 00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:52,679 Speaker 2: like that. So he went out, walked into the barn. 769 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 2: As he goes through the barn door, he said he 770 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: felt really strange, and he walked into a Roman dining 771 00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:03,159 Speaker 2: room with all people sat around at a banquet eating food, 772 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 2: and he said he kind of froze and he stood there, 773 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 2: and he doesn't how long he was stood there, but 774 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 2: he said he started to get freaked out when people 775 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:14,039 Speaker 2: started to notice that he was there. So at first 776 00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:16,519 Speaker 2: they didn't see him, and then somebody noticed he was there, 777 00:40:16,559 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 2: they started looking at him. So he kind of backed 778 00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:22,079 Speaker 2: out of the barn and just made a run for 779 00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:25,119 Speaker 2: the house, and as he glanced. As he glanced back, 780 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,639 Speaker 2: all the lights had gone out in the barn. Now, 781 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,199 Speaker 2: this is where this gets really interesting, many many years 782 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,119 Speaker 2: after this, because that had too when he was a 783 00:40:33,159 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 2: young man, and when I interviewed him, was very old. 784 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,559 Speaker 2: But when he was sort of in between, he said, 785 00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 2: the archaeologist came doing a survey and they surveyed everything 786 00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:45,599 Speaker 2: and they managed to work out that his farm sits 787 00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 2: on top of a Roman villa, and that the barn 788 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 2: sits on top of the banqueting house Roman. So was 789 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 2: it a ghost or was it a time slit? Ye? 790 00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: I mean I've heard those stories before when somebody walking 791 00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:01,679 Speaker 1: into a shop and all of a sudden they walked 792 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,559 Speaker 1: into an old an old old top hold your boldie 793 00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: shop where it shouldn't be. 794 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, time slips. 795 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like really strange. I mean I wonder if 796 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,320 Speaker 1: you walked into that, you know, if you actually walked 797 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: in there, could you get stuck in there? 798 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 2: Well, I've got a great one for you. I've just 799 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,079 Speaker 2: done the forward for a book called Weird Time. So 800 00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 2: there's a plug. I've not done the book, but you 801 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,039 Speaker 2: can go and look it up. It's an American release. 802 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 2: And they asked me to do like, you know, five 803 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 2: hundred words for the forward. I ended up doing about 804 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 2: two and a half thousand and three thousand. 805 00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: As you as you would, I know, you, yeah, exactly exactly. 806 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,280 Speaker 2: It can up when the going that whld story. When 807 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 2: I was when I was a youngster, my dad had 808 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,559 Speaker 2: this thing where when we were coming back from Wales 809 00:41:40,599 --> 00:41:43,679 Speaker 2: from holiday, he'd always come back a different way, you know, 810 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 2: to see what we could find sort of thing. And 811 00:41:46,039 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 2: this particular time he came through Leaking, Staffordshire and he 812 00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 2: went round this side of Rudyard Lake. I think it 813 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 2: was only about eight years old, nine years old at 814 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,119 Speaker 2: the time. And as we went around the side of 815 00:41:57,159 --> 00:41:59,119 Speaker 2: this lake, there was a cafe on the side of 816 00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 2: the road. It's set back on a terrace and you 817 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,280 Speaker 2: go up steps and you go into this cafe. So 818 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,039 Speaker 2: he pulls in and we go in for a milkshake. Well, 819 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 2: as it turns out, they didn't do milkshakes. What we 820 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,119 Speaker 2: did was we sat at this table with four seats 821 00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 2: and the whole of the inside of it. Do you 822 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,159 Speaker 2: remember that sort of weird sort of yellow color that 823 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 2: they had in the nineteen thirties, Everything was like pale 824 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 2: green or pale yellow. The inside of this was all 825 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,119 Speaker 2: pale yellow. So it had yellow and white tile floor, 826 00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 2: big tiles. 827 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,079 Speaker 1: All cars were That was it. 828 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,320 Speaker 2: You can have any color ex Yeah, as as it 829 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 2: was at the tabletops like fine small yellow check And 830 00:42:37,039 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 2: there's a big chrome bar, a bit like an American 831 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,079 Speaker 2: diner type bar, and this chubby woman in yellow and 832 00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 2: white behind it. She comes out asks what we wanted. 833 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 2: I can still remember to this day having halicks. Harlics 834 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,599 Speaker 2: used to come in these strange shaped mugs with the 835 00:42:52,679 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 2: word haulicks stant in which you didn't realize. They're actually 836 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 2: a lot older than I thought. Anyway, we had a 837 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 2: halicks packed up disappeared off many many years later. So 838 00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:06,079 Speaker 2: fast forward now I'm in me what would it be forties, 839 00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 2: maybe early fifties, and I met the local historian. I'm 840 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,199 Speaker 2: sat in the local historians place and chatting away to 841 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,039 Speaker 2: him and I tell him this story and he says, 842 00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:17,679 Speaker 2: i'ing on a minute, let me just stop your moment. 843 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,559 Speaker 2: He goes to the bookshelf and he pulls this book 844 00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:22,119 Speaker 2: off the shelf and he says, is this the cafe? 845 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 2: And he shows me a page with three photographs on 846 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,199 Speaker 2: of the inside of this cafe. And I'm like, yeah, 847 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 2: that's it. But these photos are in black and white. 848 00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:33,199 Speaker 2: And I said to him, yeah, I said, it's all 849 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,639 Speaker 2: yellow and white in there and chrome. You know, there's 850 00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:37,280 Speaker 2: like a window over here and this that and the other. 851 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 2: And he went, oh, he said, right, well there's a 852 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,159 Speaker 2: problem here. I said that. He said, well, those photographs 853 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,039 Speaker 2: I think he said they were taken in the year 854 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two to nineteen thirty three, and the cafe 855 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:54,039 Speaker 2: shut in the nineteen thirties. What every single thing I 856 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 2: described from my visit, which would have been in the 857 00:43:56,519 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, nineteen seventy, sixty eight, sixty nine, seventy in 858 00:44:01,039 --> 00:44:06,079 Speaker 2: that period, everything I described was exactly correct for that cafe. 859 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 2: And he finished it by saying to me, he said, 860 00:44:08,679 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 2: and there are no known surviving color photos. 861 00:44:11,639 --> 00:44:14,559 Speaker 1: What that's amazing. Right now, I've got an important question 862 00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:17,519 Speaker 1: for this. How much did they charge you for the holdings? 863 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 2: I've got no idea because he. 864 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: Down it must have been about hate or. 865 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,119 Speaker 2: When did we go out of imperial into decimal? When 866 00:44:28,159 --> 00:44:30,639 Speaker 2: did we change over? That was nineteen sixties, wasn't. 867 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: It seventy two? I think right? 868 00:44:34,039 --> 00:44:36,320 Speaker 2: Well, we were still on the old money, so he'd 869 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,679 Speaker 2: have paid whatever she asked in old money. So if 870 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,639 Speaker 2: she'd have gone, like you know, two and six or 871 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 2: eight me or whatever, everyone she asked them, and that 872 00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:45,920 Speaker 2: was it and we were all. 873 00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: That's really strange. 874 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:47,639 Speaker 2: I mean. 875 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: The thing is if it was I mean, if she 876 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,760 Speaker 1: was doing old money obvious is quite an important question, 877 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,159 Speaker 1: isn't it. If you if you were in a time skit? 878 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,079 Speaker 1: But you've gone back in time. Would she be asking 879 00:44:58,199 --> 00:45:02,079 Speaker 1: for today's money price or that day's Monday price. 880 00:45:03,639 --> 00:45:05,360 Speaker 2: And the worst thing that could happen, the course, is 881 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,039 Speaker 2: for my dad to just assume how. 882 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: Much it was, or they should have thought, yeah. 883 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 2: Should have gone up, that's all right in it, you know. 884 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,079 Speaker 2: But I was gone, I was out of the door 885 00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 2: before he paid. I finished me all. 886 00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:20,639 Speaker 1: He probably gave her off a crown or something. 887 00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:23,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, whatever. 888 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 1: Half a crowd, which is anyway, we won't go in 889 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,320 Speaker 1: to that. That's really freaky. 890 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a proper time slip because because again 891 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,239 Speaker 2: I've driven past there many times and it's now a 892 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,199 Speaker 2: private house with the garage in front, so it's not 893 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,639 Speaker 2: what it was. It's the same shape, but yeah, I 894 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,559 Speaker 2: don't even know if the building is the same building. 895 00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: I mean, how did you take that in yourself? Did you? 896 00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 2: Did you? 897 00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:49,079 Speaker 1: Was you freak out that well by the did you 898 00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: sit there trying to pass it out? No? 899 00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:55,079 Speaker 2: I'm me personally, I'm at the point where I just 900 00:45:55,159 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 2: accept things. You know. It was such a vivid memory, 901 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 2: and I remembered it so well, and I don't have 902 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,840 Speaker 2: a huge number of memories from childhood I'm just not 903 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 2: good at remembering stuff, so I just thought, you know what, 904 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to keep that memory because it was a 905 00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 2: great memory. Even the Halics mug. I knew exactly what 906 00:46:10,519 --> 00:46:14,760 Speaker 2: it was. It was this cream colored, slightly tapering mug 907 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 2: with harlics in it, with a certain shaped handle on it. 908 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,719 Speaker 2: They are nineteen thirties mugs, you know. I only found 909 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:26,599 Speaker 2: that out sort of more recently, so I think there isn't. 910 00:46:26,599 --> 00:46:29,639 Speaker 2: It didn't freak me out. It's not the strangest time 911 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 2: slip I've ever had, because I was a stranger. Well 912 00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:37,559 Speaker 2: nineteen what would it be, late nineteen eighties. So I'm 913 00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 2: in the music business. I'm doing session, I'm working with 914 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,119 Speaker 2: a band in Huddersfield, and I live over here in Warrington. 915 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,760 Speaker 2: And I remember going into a panic this particular morning 916 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,519 Speaker 2: because I was late. I looked at all clocks. I 917 00:46:49,559 --> 00:46:51,599 Speaker 2: looked at me watching it's a kitchen clock and everything, 918 00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:54,800 Speaker 2: and the time I left the front door was ten o'clock. 919 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,679 Speaker 2: Now I was supposed to be at the rehearsal in 920 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,760 Speaker 2: Huddersfield at ten o'clock. So I hit the road like 921 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,320 Speaker 2: grease lightning, you know, all the way up and whatever 922 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 2: what would be sixty two and sixty Ring Road all 923 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 2: the way up anyway, finished Roper Huddersfield came screaming into 924 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 2: the car park at the rehearsal room. Jumped out said 925 00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:17,159 Speaker 2: to all the band members, so I'm sorry, I'm late. 926 00:47:17,199 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. I'm late. I just got held up, 927 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,199 Speaker 2: you know, terribly sorry. And they all just looked at 928 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 2: me like I was from planet Zog, Like, what do 929 00:47:24,119 --> 00:47:28,159 Speaker 2: you mean you're late? You're absolutely banged on time. I said, well, 930 00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 2: that's impossible anyway, they said, no, I have a look. 931 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,400 Speaker 2: So I looked at the watches, looked at the truth. 932 00:47:32,679 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 2: It was ten o'clock. It was exactly the time that 933 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 2: I left. I drove the journey and I know for 934 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,559 Speaker 2: a fact what time I left it was. 935 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,039 Speaker 1: It wasn't the clocks room back or so it was. 936 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,400 Speaker 2: I back in the middle of the night. Then back 937 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,079 Speaker 2: then in the eighties, everything had to be changed manually. Anyway, 938 00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:53,199 Speaker 2: so I know that I left definitely I left late. 939 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,719 Speaker 2: I left at least an hour late, at ten o'clock. 940 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,559 Speaker 2: But I arrived at the same time I left. 941 00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:04,199 Speaker 1: Well, how do you explain that you must have you 942 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,400 Speaker 1: must have traveled at the speed of light, like you see. 943 00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:08,760 Speaker 2: Why I did the journey. That's the funny part of it. 944 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,599 Speaker 2: I actually experienced the journey. I did it, but then 945 00:48:11,639 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 2: I arrived and no time had elapsed. 946 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:15,159 Speaker 1: That's really crazy. 947 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,360 Speaker 2: But that's not the only I mean, if you get 948 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,280 Speaker 2: this bit, if you get this book Weird Time, it's 949 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,840 Speaker 2: full of other people's very similar stories to that time. Yeah, weird. 950 00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:25,639 Speaker 2: It's worth looking into. 951 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've heard I've heard of a few 952 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,159 Speaker 1: stories where from renders from forest as you know where 953 00:48:35,159 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 1: I used to. There's been a few strange experiences there 954 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,559 Speaker 1: according with time. I know Brenda about love you heard 955 00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:46,119 Speaker 1: of her. They had a two hour missing time once 956 00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 1: and she actually and she was actually walking in the walls, 957 00:48:49,039 --> 00:48:51,440 Speaker 1: which she knew very well. She didn't recognize any of it, 958 00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:55,840 Speaker 1: and they were wandering around for about two hours. Other 959 00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,440 Speaker 1: people were looking for them. And yes, so we are stories. 960 00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:02,559 Speaker 1: And she knows that woods like the back of her hand, 961 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,599 Speaker 1: you know, and apparently some strange trees that she didn't 962 00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:06,400 Speaker 1: recoglarize as well. 963 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 2: I'm not a verse to time behaving in strange ways, 964 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,639 Speaker 2: you know. I mean the whole of nature, the entire 965 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 2: of nature, the exception defines the rule. So although most 966 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 2: of it's the same all the time, there's always something 967 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,400 Speaker 2: that comes along that doesn't fit. So, you know, into 968 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,880 Speaker 2: the realms of paranormal. You know, how much of paranormal 969 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,719 Speaker 2: is actually nature, but it's SuperNature. You know. That's kind 970 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 2: of where things seem to be going now in the 971 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,360 Speaker 2: twenty first century. It's almost like, you know, we're beginning 972 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,320 Speaker 2: to accept more and more. I think I said this 973 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,199 Speaker 2: to somebody not long back in another interview. I said, 974 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,599 Speaker 2: because of the Internet, we're now discovering that there's a 975 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:51,119 Speaker 2: huge and absolutely vast number of people that have had 976 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,360 Speaker 2: so many experiences. Absolutely the paranormal now is you can't 977 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:57,679 Speaker 2: really call it parat. 978 00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:00,360 Speaker 1: I've spoken to enough of one this show. If listened 979 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 1: to these shows, I've had quite a few different experiences, 980 00:50:02,639 --> 00:50:04,719 Speaker 1: and quite a lot that metch up as well, where 981 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,119 Speaker 1: people people that don't even know each other and they've 982 00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:08,559 Speaker 1: had similar types of experiences. 983 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like we're defining the new normal. You know, 984 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,360 Speaker 2: somehow out there there's this dimension that you know, if 985 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,320 Speaker 2: only one in ten person happened to say, oh I 986 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,159 Speaker 2: saw a ghost, did get laughed. Now, but now it's 987 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,840 Speaker 2: like you know one in two or one in three 988 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 2: have seen something crypto or something alien, or you know, 989 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,039 Speaker 2: something ghostly or you know, and all these categories add up. 990 00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:33,880 Speaker 2: They add up to a huge number of people on 991 00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:34,480 Speaker 2: that point. 992 00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:38,159 Speaker 1: I'll just mention this. On Saturday night, my wife got 993 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,599 Speaker 1: up to use the bathrop as you do, and she said, 994 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,119 Speaker 1: I was asleep. She didn't wake me up, but she 995 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,679 Speaker 1: said it was about three thirty five in the morning. 996 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,239 Speaker 1: And I said when she said about this, because she 997 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,719 Speaker 1: looked out she saw an orange light with two with 998 00:50:54,880 --> 00:51:00,199 Speaker 1: three a triangle around it right, lasted like three seconds top. 999 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:01,840 Speaker 2: It was three thirty three, was it? 1000 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,039 Speaker 1: Because that's what I said to her. I said, I said, 1001 00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:06,039 Speaker 1: what time was it? It was about three thirty five? 1002 00:51:06,119 --> 00:51:08,280 Speaker 1: But she said, well, because I looked at the alarm 1003 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 1: clock and I said three thirty. You said it was 1004 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,400 Speaker 1: three thirty five. She said yeah, And she said that 1005 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,599 Speaker 1: I'll go and check the time down And when she 1006 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,800 Speaker 1: checked the other time on the other clock, it was 1007 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:22,079 Speaker 1: actually two minutes fast. Wow, So it was three thirty three. 1008 00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:25,079 Speaker 1: So I've actually made a report out for that. So 1009 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,159 Speaker 1: because she she said, only only showingly saw it for 1010 00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:30,960 Speaker 1: a few seconds, I said, well, say thirty three. It's 1011 00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:34,119 Speaker 1: usually quite an important time, and it's quite a usual 1012 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,000 Speaker 1: time to see something like that that you're meant to see. 1013 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's almost like it flutters at that time, 1014 00:51:40,599 --> 00:51:43,239 Speaker 2: nature flutters. I mean, I used to do a lot 1015 00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 2: of work, you know, dejaying in bands and things like that, 1016 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,639 Speaker 2: coming back in the early hours, around about half past three, 1017 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,679 Speaker 2: that's when things started to get it, you know, scary flexible. 1018 00:51:53,079 --> 00:51:55,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's why I said to I said, so, yeah, 1019 00:51:55,199 --> 00:51:57,400 Speaker 1: I said, saying thirty five was it? And she says, yes, 1020 00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure it was three thirty four because I looked 1021 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: at the clock and then she said, I'll go check 1022 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,480 Speaker 1: it with the other clock. And then she when she 1023 00:52:03,599 --> 00:52:06,119 Speaker 1: checked it, it was actually three two fast o clock. 1024 00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:10,679 Speaker 2: So that's close enough. 1025 00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:11,159 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1026 00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:14,679 Speaker 1: So it was very strange, but I didn't want I said, 1027 00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:16,599 Speaker 1: you should have worked me up. She said, what was gone? 1028 00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:19,599 Speaker 1: It was only lasting about three seconds and it just 1029 00:52:19,639 --> 00:52:21,159 Speaker 1: sort of it went out of the sky. 1030 00:52:21,639 --> 00:52:24,119 Speaker 2: And if she did have had a camera available, she 1031 00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:25,960 Speaker 2: either wouldn't have seen it or it wouldn't have been 1032 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:26,559 Speaker 2: out of focus. 1033 00:52:28,599 --> 00:52:31,079 Speaker 1: I said to her, you could have she said, they did. 1034 00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:33,800 Speaker 1: The last song en time I got was gone, you 1035 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,559 Speaker 1: know so, but she said, But I said to him 1036 00:52:36,639 --> 00:52:38,239 Speaker 1: in the morning, I said, well, I want you to 1037 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,559 Speaker 1: write it all down what you actually saw, so while 1038 00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:42,679 Speaker 1: it's still freshening your mind, and I've got it. I 1039 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,320 Speaker 1: actually put it on Facebook and I put it in 1040 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,360 Speaker 1: our sort of agency investigation. 1041 00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:52,320 Speaker 2: Everybody did that we have a decent idea of what 1042 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:53,559 Speaker 2: just in. 1043 00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:55,719 Speaker 1: Case something comes up. Something you never know somebody else. 1044 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,920 Speaker 1: But I've seen a three past three in the morning. 1045 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,159 Speaker 2: But you know I was. I mean in the Europe's 1046 00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:05,519 Speaker 2: Froswell book that I wrote, I put in my UFO 1047 00:53:05,679 --> 00:53:08,079 Speaker 2: encounter where I saw this thing flying up the Mersey Valley. 1048 00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:12,559 Speaker 2: Eleven years after that, in Jenny Randall's book Mysteries of 1049 00:53:12,639 --> 00:53:16,559 Speaker 2: the Mersey Valley, somebody had seen the same thing over 1050 00:53:16,679 --> 00:53:18,679 Speaker 2: on the world and then the same thing over in 1051 00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,119 Speaker 2: Liverpool that it was coming this way. So you had 1052 00:53:21,199 --> 00:53:25,480 Speaker 2: two independent witnesses to the start of this thing, me 1053 00:53:25,639 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 2: seeing it coming through and finishing here. And yet it 1054 00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:31,920 Speaker 2: took eleven years to find those two accounts and marry 1055 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,639 Speaker 2: them up. That was at about two o'clock in the morning, 1056 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,480 Speaker 2: quarter past two in the morning. It's not entirely out 1057 00:53:38,519 --> 00:53:41,679 Speaker 2: of the question, these things do match up? 1058 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,039 Speaker 1: You know, we've gone out of the realms of archaelogy 1059 00:53:45,679 --> 00:53:46,199 Speaker 1: miles out. 1060 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,360 Speaker 2: I did you this would happen? 1061 00:53:49,199 --> 00:53:51,119 Speaker 1: It was over the top of that house over there, so. 1062 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but. 1063 00:53:56,119 --> 00:54:02,400 Speaker 1: Oh, what's you've got you there's some sort of a 1064 00:54:02,679 --> 00:54:05,119 Speaker 1: ghost and fandoms that leaked to a lot of these 1065 00:54:05,199 --> 00:54:06,480 Speaker 1: archaoog you've called sights. 1066 00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,840 Speaker 2: So well, when I mentioned that one in Derbyshire, that 1067 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,239 Speaker 2: was interesting because when when we were doing the dig there, 1068 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,519 Speaker 2: that's the only tongue that any of my archaeology team 1069 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,119 Speaker 2: were actually buzzed by a UFO. So can you imagine 1070 00:54:19,159 --> 00:54:26,199 Speaker 2: we're all getting well, you're supernatural, it's paranormal. I actually 1071 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,880 Speaker 2: missed it, but only just because I was sat in 1072 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,199 Speaker 2: the site of this and one of the ladies came 1073 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,320 Speaker 2: running in. So I'm writing up a report and it's 1074 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,039 Speaker 2: all gone dark and they're all supposed to be a 1075 00:54:35,079 --> 00:54:38,159 Speaker 2: sleeping in sleeping bags and that. This lady came running 1076 00:54:38,199 --> 00:54:40,000 Speaker 2: in and went, oh, you're not gonna believe this. We're 1077 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,000 Speaker 2: all sat around the fireplace binding our own business. She 1078 00:54:43,079 --> 00:54:46,679 Speaker 2: said this, this great, big silver thing came right over 1079 00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,519 Speaker 2: the top of us and flew off. She said it 1080 00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:50,679 Speaker 2: was like a big flying sort of thing, and there 1081 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,519 Speaker 2: was there was about half a dozen of them that 1082 00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:55,119 Speaker 2: saw this thing come over the top and it did 1083 00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:58,519 Speaker 2: it buzz the site. So that makes you wonder if 1084 00:54:58,679 --> 00:55:01,440 Speaker 2: there's some connection, like you with power paranoria. 1085 00:55:01,519 --> 00:55:05,079 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's dimensional stuff. 1086 00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:08,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, history, you know, the stuff that's gone on there, 1087 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 2: and then this thing comes over the top. It's essentially 1088 00:55:11,079 --> 00:55:12,599 Speaker 2: I think, to have a look at what we were doing, 1089 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,000 Speaker 2: because we have all holes open and stuff like that, 1090 00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:17,800 Speaker 2: and where the fire going and lights and you know, 1091 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,760 Speaker 2: clearly it was interested in what we were up to 1092 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,679 Speaker 2: know it was still there. So yeah, I mean, it's 1093 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,760 Speaker 2: it's incredible because you've got your archaeology and ghosts, you've 1094 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,079 Speaker 2: got your archaeology and UFOs, You've got your archaeology and 1095 00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,840 Speaker 2: all kinds of crypto stuff going on out there, you know, 1096 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,119 Speaker 2: and then if you wanted to go Hollywood, you've got 1097 00:55:35,159 --> 00:55:39,199 Speaker 2: loads of archaeology and horror films as well, mummies and 1098 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,000 Speaker 2: Zoom Raider and you know, you name it, all kinds 1099 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:42,400 Speaker 2: of stuff. 1100 00:55:42,599 --> 00:55:44,440 Speaker 1: Well, when we do the next show, we'll be talking 1101 00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:49,559 Speaker 1: about there's no doubt the sphinx and the mummies and 1102 00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:53,920 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff like that. Those craft that you 1103 00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,159 Speaker 1: could be seeing. I mean I always think they did. 1104 00:55:56,199 --> 00:55:58,639 Speaker 1: They might. They don't have to be extraterrestrial, do they. 1105 00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:01,159 Speaker 1: They could be in the dimensional crash of but some 1106 00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,960 Speaker 1: civilization is using from another dimension. 1107 00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,199 Speaker 2: I think it's looking like that. Or possibly, to touch 1108 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,440 Speaker 2: on a subject we've just talked about, maybe time travel. 1109 00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,000 Speaker 2: You know, maybe they're coming, maybe they're alls, but they're 1110 00:56:14,039 --> 00:56:17,679 Speaker 2: coming from either the past or the future. Me being me, 1111 00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,280 Speaker 2: I tend to think that they're coming from the distant past, 1112 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,320 Speaker 2: because then they can't affect their own future. Does that 1113 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:30,760 Speaker 2: make sense? Yeah, I think there is, but from you know, 1114 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,719 Speaker 2: pre flood, pre comet impact, pre whatever. So we have 1115 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,039 Speaker 2: really way way back, way way back, yeah, way. 1116 00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,119 Speaker 1: Back before biblical terms basically. 1117 00:56:40,159 --> 00:56:43,199 Speaker 2: Basically yeah, yeah, you're talking well, I mean people that 1118 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:44,119 Speaker 2: talk about the animals. 1119 00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,519 Speaker 1: That's quite Yeah, that's a concept I've never actually thought of. Actually, 1120 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:50,599 Speaker 1: it's well, they. 1121 00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:52,320 Speaker 2: Can't come from the future because if they come back 1122 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,760 Speaker 2: in time, they're ruining their own future, They're changing their 1123 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,599 Speaker 2: own timeline. They could effectively do it to such an 1124 00:56:57,639 --> 00:56:59,400 Speaker 2: extent that they destroy themselves. 1125 00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,079 Speaker 1: And you know, so the amazing thing is they've gone 1126 00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:06,559 Speaker 1: way back in the past. But they're all right, but 1127 00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:10,159 Speaker 1: they're already at their future. If you see what I'm saying, 1128 00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,320 Speaker 1: they're futuristic within their own royal. 1129 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think they're trying to change us. I 1130 00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,039 Speaker 2: don't think they're trying to modify something that they see coming. 1131 00:57:20,599 --> 00:57:22,960 Speaker 2: I think they're actually coming to see where the world 1132 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,760 Speaker 2: has ended up. You know, they're at the start of 1133 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,239 Speaker 2: the world and they're coming to see what's happening now, 1134 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,599 Speaker 2: which would then explain why you know they're pinching badges 1135 00:57:31,639 --> 00:57:33,800 Speaker 2: and squirlls and sheep and people. 1136 00:57:33,559 --> 00:57:35,639 Speaker 1: And quite fascinating. 1137 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,559 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think they're coming to have a look and 1138 00:57:39,679 --> 00:57:43,679 Speaker 2: seeing where we've ended up and how the world's functioning now, 1139 00:57:44,639 --> 00:57:46,519 Speaker 2: and then whether they'll do anything about that or not. 1140 00:57:46,639 --> 00:57:48,639 Speaker 2: I don't know. That's maybe that's the next step. 1141 00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,840 Speaker 1: You know, Well, that's something else that's going to I'll 1142 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,679 Speaker 1: be crazy and there, Mark, thank you for that, because 1143 00:57:52,679 --> 00:57:55,480 Speaker 1: I'll be thinking about that now. Is it from a 1144 00:57:55,960 --> 00:58:00,199 Speaker 1: very very very very distant past, before even outside, before 1145 00:58:00,239 --> 00:58:01,559 Speaker 1: where our planet even got going. 1146 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,480 Speaker 2: Well, it's super technology, you know, all sorts of stuff 1147 00:58:05,519 --> 00:58:10,840 Speaker 2: back then, all the technology we keep rediscovering because of 1148 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,599 Speaker 2: theologist again staying on topic, the number of times we 1149 00:58:14,719 --> 00:58:17,360 Speaker 2: find something, you know, like the bang Dad battery or 1150 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:17,960 Speaker 2: the Sakara. 1151 00:58:19,559 --> 00:58:23,519 Speaker 1: There's that clockwork thing Anti Cathera with the. 1152 00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:27,639 Speaker 2: That one. Then there's the mathematics. You know, how did 1153 00:58:27,679 --> 00:58:30,719 Speaker 2: you know where to position things? And that's even in 1154 00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,039 Speaker 2: this country with Stonehenge and things alignments, you know, and 1155 00:58:34,119 --> 00:58:37,400 Speaker 2: all that. All the time you keep falling over what 1156 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:41,519 Speaker 2: we call super technology without having the foggiest idea where 1157 00:58:41,559 --> 00:58:43,880 Speaker 2: it's come from and how these people got hold of it. Well, 1158 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,760 Speaker 2: I think we tend to rediscover, you know, we find 1159 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,880 Speaker 2: things again. You know, the Romans in particular, they sponged 1160 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,320 Speaker 2: up everything from the ancient world, you know, to become 1161 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 2: the Roman Empire, and they've got some pretty impressive technology, 1162 00:58:57,199 --> 00:59:01,519 Speaker 2: you know, flush toilets and trains. You know, you look 1163 00:59:01,559 --> 00:59:04,719 Speaker 2: at Pompeii Herculaneum and all that which was frozen in time. 1164 00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:07,039 Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff going on then that is 1165 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,719 Speaker 2: very very similar to what's going on now, you know, 1166 00:59:10,199 --> 00:59:13,320 Speaker 2: very very little difference. So I wonder if that rediscovery, 1167 00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:17,159 Speaker 2: maybe that is us finding diluted versions of what was 1168 00:59:17,239 --> 00:59:20,400 Speaker 2: standard practiced in the distant past, you know. And again 1169 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,000 Speaker 2: the people that look at huge archaeological sites like Barbeck, 1170 00:59:24,039 --> 00:59:27,079 Speaker 2: where you've got forty fifty sixty ton blocks halfway up 1171 00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:29,000 Speaker 2: a wall. You know, they get them up there, you know, 1172 00:59:30,679 --> 00:59:33,840 Speaker 2: but clearly they knew things we didn't know. Stonehenge is 1173 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,960 Speaker 2: a case in point. You know, how how on Earth 1174 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,760 Speaker 2: did they shift all those stones? You know, that's been 1175 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,239 Speaker 2: a debate that's been going on for hundreds of years. 1176 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't care. I mean, I know there's 1177 00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:45,920 Speaker 1: archaeologists out there who saying that they moved on by ropes, 1178 00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,920 Speaker 1: and I still can't believe it. I mean, I'm not 1179 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,760 Speaker 1: an expert, of course, but I find it very very 1180 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:56,679 Speaker 1: hard to accept that they're moving these great, big things 1181 00:59:56,719 --> 01:00:00,559 Speaker 1: that weigh hundreds of tons. I'm not sor stone ins. 1182 01:00:00,559 --> 01:00:02,960 Speaker 1: I'm talking about things in Egypt and that we're probably 1183 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,599 Speaker 1: going to deeper next time. I just don't see it. 1184 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,679 Speaker 1: They could have done it withes and pulleys and things. 1185 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,119 Speaker 2: There's some mathematics that says that it's possible, and there 1186 01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:17,400 Speaker 2: are guys that have experimented with enormous concrete blocks and 1187 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,000 Speaker 2: they've they've had a go, and you can do it. 1188 01:00:20,239 --> 01:00:23,559 Speaker 2: But the thing that's really fooling. Everybody is having the 1189 01:00:23,679 --> 01:00:27,599 Speaker 2: knowledge of how to do it, as the mathematics and 1190 01:00:27,679 --> 01:00:29,559 Speaker 2: the balancing technology in the art. 1191 01:00:29,519 --> 01:00:33,639 Speaker 1: And the cut of these they slightly sold a piece 1192 01:00:33,639 --> 01:00:34,480 Speaker 1: of paper between them. 1193 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:39,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. That kind of thing is that's almost 1194 01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:43,519 Speaker 2: harder to accept than actually moving the blocks. But I've 1195 01:00:43,519 --> 01:00:45,800 Speaker 2: got a great story about the bluestones because back in 1196 01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,800 Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties from the Procelly Mountains, some archaeologists got 1197 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,679 Speaker 2: one of the bluestones that got one, fished it out 1198 01:00:52,719 --> 01:00:54,800 Speaker 2: of the Procelly Mountains, took it down to where they 1199 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,039 Speaker 2: thought it would have been loaded onto a raft, and 1200 01:00:58,159 --> 01:01:00,480 Speaker 2: then they sailed it round what is effective the pig's 1201 01:01:00,559 --> 01:01:03,039 Speaker 2: nose on whales. They sailed it round into the Bristol 1202 01:01:03,159 --> 01:01:06,079 Speaker 2: Channel with a view to sailing this stone to see 1203 01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:07,920 Speaker 2: how far they could get it. And when they got 1204 01:01:08,039 --> 01:01:10,199 Speaker 2: round that into the mouth of the Bristol Channel, the 1205 01:01:10,239 --> 01:01:14,440 Speaker 2: whole thing sank. So back then in those days, what 1206 01:01:14,519 --> 01:01:16,320 Speaker 2: you had to do was you had to tidy up 1207 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,480 Speaker 2: your mess. So they got divers in to go and 1208 01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:21,760 Speaker 2: get the remains of the raft and anything else they 1209 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,639 Speaker 2: could rescue. They sent the divers down and they found 1210 01:01:24,679 --> 01:01:30,280 Speaker 2: the bluestone that had sunk surrounded by other bluestones Sunky prehistory, 1211 01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,239 Speaker 2: so exactly the same thing had happened in prehistory when 1212 01:01:35,239 --> 01:01:37,840 Speaker 2: they were trying to get the bluestones round there up 1213 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,440 Speaker 2: the Bristol Channel and you know, up to Stonehenge they 1214 01:01:41,559 --> 01:01:43,400 Speaker 2: just found the rest of the ones that had sunk. 1215 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,559 Speaker 2: You know, they had the same problems. So they've got 1216 01:01:45,559 --> 01:01:47,840 Speaker 2: a pretty good idea how the bluestones got round there. 1217 01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,239 Speaker 2: They've known that since the nineteen nineties. The real problems 1218 01:01:51,719 --> 01:01:56,159 Speaker 2: are the giant big you know, that's a different matter. 1219 01:01:56,519 --> 01:01:59,840 Speaker 2: You know, how do you carve a curved trilithon lint, 1220 01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,599 Speaker 2: put the two notches in it for the nobles on 1221 01:02:03,719 --> 01:02:06,599 Speaker 2: top of the big and then poke it up, you know, 1222 01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,559 Speaker 2: stick it in place. And then once you've got that 1223 01:02:08,679 --> 01:02:12,559 Speaker 2: ring in place, what the hell is it for go 1224 01:02:12,719 --> 01:02:13,559 Speaker 2: to all that trouble? 1225 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,400 Speaker 1: You know, and there's so many and is it going 1226 01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,159 Speaker 1: to break off when you're trying to live for fee? 1227 01:02:19,079 --> 01:02:20,320 Speaker 2: And what happens if it goes wrong? 1228 01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:23,599 Speaker 1: And also, I mean when they're cutting out these big 1229 01:02:23,679 --> 01:02:28,119 Speaker 1: slabs into you can cut downwards? How do you cut under. 1230 01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:33,679 Speaker 2: A lot of people don't realize there's quite a lot 1231 01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,000 Speaker 2: of that stone below ground to keep it up right, 1232 01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:39,559 Speaker 2: you build a stone circle now, so I said, the 1233 01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,239 Speaker 2: local council decided they're going to build one as a folly. 1234 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,239 Speaker 2: It's two thirds below ground to one third above. So 1235 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,639 Speaker 2: those stones are a hell of a lot bigger than 1236 01:02:48,679 --> 01:02:51,199 Speaker 2: they appear to be. There's a lot of stone going 1237 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 2: below the ground to keep them where they are. 1238 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,159 Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff. I mean, like you say that Stonehenge has 1239 01:02:58,159 --> 01:03:00,559 Speaker 1: also got a big link with UFOs as well. There's 1240 01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:01,000 Speaker 1: quite a lot. 1241 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, it has. Yeah, I mean, I think as far 1242 01:03:04,239 --> 01:03:07,000 Speaker 2: as as far as archaeology and paranormals concern, you can't 1243 01:03:07,039 --> 01:03:09,559 Speaker 2: really separate them, you know, because when you start getting 1244 01:03:09,559 --> 01:03:12,719 Speaker 2: into lay lines and you've got your astrological positions and 1245 01:03:13,159 --> 01:03:16,559 Speaker 2: the earth energies and the things that those sites attracked, 1246 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,159 Speaker 2: because obviously they do UFOs, They attract spirits, they attract 1247 01:03:20,559 --> 01:03:25,360 Speaker 2: everything which is mediums, time slips. You know, all the 1248 01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:29,039 Speaker 2: years I've done archaeology, I can understand why some archaeologists 1249 01:03:29,519 --> 01:03:32,639 Speaker 2: don't want to go there, because not only is it 1250 01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,239 Speaker 2: going to be a threat to their career and popularity, 1251 01:03:36,159 --> 01:03:38,039 Speaker 2: and also the fact that they might get chucked out 1252 01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:40,639 Speaker 2: of whatever university is paying them. I mean, aside from 1253 01:03:40,679 --> 01:03:45,239 Speaker 2: all of that, there are so many related avenues of investigation. 1254 01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,159 Speaker 2: There's so much more to it if you start going 1255 01:03:48,199 --> 01:03:50,280 Speaker 2: down that as well. Most people don't have the capacity 1256 01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,119 Speaker 2: to deal with all of that information. You know, there's 1257 01:03:54,199 --> 01:03:56,239 Speaker 2: so much of it. You know, there's just so much 1258 01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:56,480 Speaker 2: of it. 1259 01:03:57,599 --> 01:03:59,679 Speaker 1: Something that's just coss me more though, or just in testing. 1260 01:04:00,519 --> 01:04:04,360 Speaker 1: So when you do these digs with the university as well, 1261 01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:05,480 Speaker 1: do you actually get paid for. 1262 01:04:05,559 --> 01:04:09,519 Speaker 2: It or gosh, well, that's how long is a piece 1263 01:04:09,559 --> 01:04:12,599 Speaker 2: of string. I've done a lot of paid work and 1264 01:04:12,719 --> 01:04:14,840 Speaker 2: what I can say is it pays extremely badly. 1265 01:04:15,239 --> 01:04:16,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't mess it because you're doing it as 1266 01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:17,760 Speaker 1: a hobby anyway, aren't you. 1267 01:04:18,199 --> 01:04:20,840 Speaker 2: Well yes, and no I did. I used to do 1268 01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,400 Speaker 2: it professionally. I had my own unit for twelve years, 1269 01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,800 Speaker 2: but we took a decision. From the commercial point of view, 1270 01:04:27,199 --> 01:04:30,920 Speaker 2: if you do commercial archaeology, whoever's paying the bill owns 1271 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,760 Speaker 2: the lot, they own the site, they own the fines, 1272 01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,760 Speaker 2: they own the report, they own the rest. You know, 1273 01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,000 Speaker 2: they own everything. So you can't make all of that 1274 01:04:39,079 --> 01:04:42,000 Speaker 2: information public, and very often it'll sit either in a 1275 01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:44,039 Speaker 2: shelf or a box or whatever, and it can sit 1276 01:04:44,119 --> 01:04:47,679 Speaker 2: there for years, forty fifty, sixty, seventy eighty years. You know, 1277 01:04:48,079 --> 01:04:51,079 Speaker 2: they're still pulling stuff up now to do with something 1278 01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:53,000 Speaker 2: who and all this kind of thing. You know, there's 1279 01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,400 Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff coming up that's been boxed. So 1280 01:04:55,559 --> 01:04:58,719 Speaker 2: what we did we actually consciously took the decision to 1281 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:03,599 Speaker 2: act as a public archaeological unit. We took volunteers. We 1282 01:05:03,719 --> 01:05:06,519 Speaker 2: did sites that weren't perhaps ever going to get done, 1283 01:05:06,719 --> 01:05:08,920 Speaker 2: you know, so we were actually in the employee of 1284 01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,440 Speaker 2: the landowners. So whoever owned the site brought us in. 1285 01:05:13,519 --> 01:05:15,239 Speaker 2: Usually there was a good reason for doing it. I 1286 01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,639 Speaker 2: mean we twelve years, we hit at least twelve major sites, 1287 01:05:18,639 --> 01:05:21,519 Speaker 2: because we did a major site every year, never missed 1288 01:05:21,559 --> 01:05:23,960 Speaker 2: the target, always found what we were asked to find, 1289 01:05:24,039 --> 01:05:27,079 Speaker 2: you know, never used geophysics, which is the thing always 1290 01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:29,920 Speaker 2: goes wrong on time team. You know, a series of 1291 01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,639 Speaker 2: small walls and a few pits. You know, we always 1292 01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:35,840 Speaker 2: did better than that. You know, we found an Anglo 1293 01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,320 Speaker 2: Saxon castle, we found a medieval moated manor house, we 1294 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,400 Speaker 2: found the templar stuff in the prehistoric landscape. You know, 1295 01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:46,280 Speaker 2: we've had Roman, we've had Anglo Saxon. We had so much, 1296 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,880 Speaker 2: so much stuff. We did a sacred well and a 1297 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,039 Speaker 2: lot of it paid homage in many ways to the paranormal, 1298 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,679 Speaker 2: you know, is it's a sacred site or a holy 1299 01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,800 Speaker 2: site or a site that they weren't doing privately and 1300 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:03,159 Speaker 2: us doing a certain way. You know, with investigated haunted houses. 1301 01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,599 Speaker 2: We've gone into tunnels, secret tunnels, you know, and all 1302 01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:09,440 Speaker 2: sorts of things. So it kind of it closed the 1303 01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:13,320 Speaker 2: financial door, but it, boy, did it open the spiritual one, 1304 01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:16,719 Speaker 2: you know, because we weren't being told what we could 1305 01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,960 Speaker 2: and couldn't do. So you know, whatever came we went 1306 01:06:20,039 --> 01:06:20,559 Speaker 2: off and did. 1307 01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:23,559 Speaker 1: Did you ever get to keep any little knick knicks. 1308 01:06:25,039 --> 01:06:26,960 Speaker 2: I've got to keep a few things. Yeah, I've got 1309 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,280 Speaker 2: the oldest man made object in Cheshire in a box 1310 01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,079 Speaker 2: in the other room there. That's a hosting and chipping 1311 01:06:32,159 --> 01:06:36,719 Speaker 2: flint four under an eighty thousand BC. It's interglacial. It's 1312 01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,800 Speaker 2: it's Home directors that made that. But I'm quite famous 1313 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:44,199 Speaker 2: for not finding anything valuable. I've been there when valuable 1314 01:06:44,239 --> 01:06:46,320 Speaker 2: things have been found, Don't get me wrong, you know. 1315 01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:50,480 Speaker 2: I mean one guy had a templar knights templar ring, 1316 01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:52,760 Speaker 2: a gold ring off one of our sides, and that 1317 01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,039 Speaker 2: went well, that went to the coroner and I think 1318 01:06:55,079 --> 01:06:58,360 Speaker 2: it's sold for eighty four thousand. It went for. It's 1319 01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,400 Speaker 2: only a tiny ring, but and a lot of stuff 1320 01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,960 Speaker 2: comes to me. The metal detectorists trust me for identification 1321 01:07:05,079 --> 01:07:06,760 Speaker 2: and things like that. So a lot of the big 1322 01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:08,519 Speaker 2: hordes that you see, and quite a lot of gold 1323 01:07:08,559 --> 01:07:11,079 Speaker 2: stuff that's come up here. I've been like holding it 1324 01:07:11,199 --> 01:07:13,199 Speaker 2: the next day after it's come out of the ground. 1325 01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:16,960 Speaker 2: So I'm involved sort of behind the scenes a lot. 1326 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,039 Speaker 2: I've got a reputation for nine times out of ten, 1327 01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:21,800 Speaker 2: I'll get it right whatever it is I'm looking at. 1328 01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,039 Speaker 2: I'm quite good at identification. But me personally, no, I've 1329 01:07:25,079 --> 01:07:30,519 Speaker 2: not actually dug anything, you know, like say skeletons, nights, templarss, 1330 01:07:30,679 --> 01:07:32,679 Speaker 2: you know all that sort of stuff. Found loads of 1331 01:07:32,679 --> 01:07:34,960 Speaker 2: stuff like that, but never found any gold or silver. 1332 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, well the treasure is you got it in your memory, 1333 01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:39,159 Speaker 1: aren't you. Yeah. 1334 01:07:39,199 --> 01:07:40,840 Speaker 2: And I've got to say the chase is better than 1335 01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:42,760 Speaker 2: the catch. You know, once you find something and you 1336 01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:44,760 Speaker 2: know what it is and you know what the story is, 1337 01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,199 Speaker 2: you move on to the next thing, you know, start again, 1338 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:49,760 Speaker 2: do another one, Do another one doing another it's very addictive. 1339 01:07:52,519 --> 01:07:54,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're always fascinating Mark. It was always great to 1340 01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,320 Speaker 1: talk to you. So we'll do another one and it'll 1341 01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:01,360 Speaker 1: be around about I think we'll recording about September time 1342 01:08:02,199 --> 01:08:06,719 Speaker 1: for the all Worldwide Netwill will you throw out on 1343 01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,119 Speaker 1: some of the archaeological sites. 1344 01:08:09,639 --> 01:08:11,679 Speaker 2: Well, this is the first time I've done any archaeology. 1345 01:08:14,039 --> 01:08:15,440 Speaker 2: This is good. I'm enjoying this. 1346 01:08:15,559 --> 01:08:17,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've learned some things today. Actually, it's 1347 01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,880 Speaker 1: been very interesting talking to you again. Once again, thank 1348 01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,079 Speaker 1: you for the come and talk to me. Mark. It's 1349 01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:23,800 Speaker 1: always a pleasure. 1350 01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:27,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, if anyone wants to any more go to Amazon 1351 01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:28,000 Speaker 2: buying books. 1352 01:08:28,119 --> 01:08:31,560 Speaker 1: Yes, I say you've got several books. How many books 1353 01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:32,720 Speaker 1: you've got Amazon altogether? 1354 01:08:33,039 --> 01:08:36,479 Speaker 2: Well, in total is nine. And they're all connected in 1355 01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:40,039 Speaker 2: one way or another to some form of archaeology. Even 1356 01:08:40,119 --> 01:08:43,119 Speaker 2: Europe's oswell, the UFO crash that started out as an 1357 01:08:43,159 --> 01:08:47,640 Speaker 2: archaeological investigation. So there are all sort of histories, mysteries 1358 01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:49,039 Speaker 2: and discoveries. 1359 01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:53,119 Speaker 1: That say you're you're King Arthur. One is fantastic, very much. 1360 01:08:53,359 --> 01:08:55,479 Speaker 1: It goes all over Britain, basically, don't. 1361 01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:57,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of makes sense out of it, you know. 1362 01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:01,840 Speaker 1: It is absolutely But yeah, if anyone out there, you 1363 01:09:02,079 --> 01:09:04,119 Speaker 1: go and have a look on Amazon, you'll find Mark Body. 1364 01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:07,680 Speaker 1: That's the old w l WI and there's you'll probably 1365 01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:11,119 Speaker 1: find several books on there that we will worth getting on. 1366 01:09:11,279 --> 01:09:13,720 Speaker 2: They can do the same on YouTube. There's a big 1367 01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:18,600 Speaker 2: back cattle on there. And yeah, Facebook, I. 1368 01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,600 Speaker 1: Said, I'll put some stuff on the Paranormal Dimensions page again, 1369 01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,720 Speaker 1: and so we wait till the next time in Mark 1370 01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,840 Speaker 1: and we'll do it all again. All right, you'll find 1371 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,000 Speaker 1: more regulous. 1372 01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:31,319 Speaker 2: Very much for having me. It's a pleasure. 1373 01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,920 Speaker 1: That's got Mark. Take care of yourself and next time. 1374 01:09:35,079 --> 01:09:41,800 Speaker 1: All right, there we are. That was Monkeley. What's again? 1375 01:09:42,039 --> 01:09:44,000 Speaker 1: And Mike will be back later on in the year 1376 01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:47,600 Speaker 1: to do part two. As we mentioned now before we 1377 01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,439 Speaker 1: close the show will play the Effort again, which is 1378 01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:54,079 Speaker 1: advertising a SkyWatch which is on the Essex Suffolk border 1379 01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:58,520 Speaker 1: which is near Cultures to actually for next Saturday. There 1380 01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:00,880 Speaker 1: are some tickets left, but you've got to get in 1381 01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,399 Speaker 1: quick if you want, if you're interested in them. So 1382 01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:04,359 Speaker 1: here it is again. 1383 01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,359 Speaker 3: We've all heard of close encounters of the third kind, 1384 01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:11,840 Speaker 3: but are you aware there is a fifth close encounters 1385 01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,920 Speaker 3: of The Fifth Kind or CU five, is centered around 1386 01:10:15,079 --> 01:10:19,920 Speaker 3: human initiated cosmic contact with our et frames, designed and 1387 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,279 Speaker 3: promoted by doctor Stephen Greed since the nineties. Come and 1388 01:10:23,319 --> 01:10:25,479 Speaker 3: try it for yourself and an event being held on 1389 01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,560 Speaker 3: Saturday the third of August on the board for Essex 1390 01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:34,520 Speaker 3: and Suffolk. To book your place, visit www sep Hyphenagency 1391 01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:39,319 Speaker 3: dot com s e p I Hyphenagency dot com. Today 1392 01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:40,880 Speaker 3: spaces are limited. 1393 01:10:42,239 --> 01:10:43,840 Speaker 1: There you go. There's the last time you'll hear that. 1394 01:10:44,359 --> 01:10:48,600 Speaker 1: And by the way, I shall be there okay. As always, 1395 01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:49,960 Speaker 1: if you'd like to get in touch with me, my 1396 01:10:50,079 --> 01:10:52,880 Speaker 1: email address is David Young two QN at your hoo 1397 01:10:53,039 --> 01:10:56,720 Speaker 1: dot co dot UK. That's David Young two q in 1398 01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:58,399 Speaker 1: at your hoo dot co dot UK. 1399 01:10:59,279 --> 01:10:59,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1400 01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:01,359 Speaker 1: The next show, which goes out on Monday, the fifth 1401 01:11:01,399 --> 01:11:04,199 Speaker 1: of August, that will be with Sarah to Sario. 1402 01:11:05,359 --> 01:11:05,399 Speaker 2: No. 1403 01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:09,279 Speaker 1: You may remember if you're a regular listener that named Dissario. Well, 1404 01:11:09,319 --> 01:11:13,199 Speaker 1: I head to Sarah's husband a couple of months ago, Nando, 1405 01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:15,199 Speaker 1: so I thought we were only fair to get Sarah. 1406 01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:18,199 Speaker 1: So that would be Monday, fifth of August. That's Sarah 1407 01:11:18,359 --> 01:11:20,600 Speaker 1: de Sarrio. So I hope you enjoyed me for that one, 1408 01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:22,399 Speaker 1: and after that show you'll have to wait two weeks 1409 01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:24,479 Speaker 1: for the next one. So we'll leave you there, and 1410 01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:26,720 Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great summer. There's a bit 1411 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:28,840 Speaker 1: touch a go in the UK, but we we get 1412 01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,640 Speaker 1: some good days and we get some bad days. Anyway, 1413 01:11:32,199 --> 01:11:34,880 Speaker 1: She'll speak to you on Monday, the fifth of August, 1414 01:11:35,039 --> 01:11:37,479 Speaker 1: so take care everyone, and I'll report back on the 1415 01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:39,680 Speaker 1: sky watch. Bye bye everyone, Bye bye. 1416 01:11:40,079 --> 01:11:42,880 Speaker 2: I took it for granted, you tuggled for granted. 1417 01:11:43,319 --> 01:11:45,159 Speaker 1: In science, nothing is taken for granted. 1418 01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:47,640 Speaker 2: But what are we going to do, my dear fellow. 1419 01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:48,640 Speaker 2: Is your problem? 1420 01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:51,960 Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, I can not too strongly stressed the 1421 01:11:52,039 --> 01:11:53,159 Speaker 1: necessity for condos. 1422 01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,800 Speaker 2: Do not allow yourselves to be emotionally disturbed by those messages. 1423 01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:02,439 Speaker 2: We have lead much, but we have sacrificed a lot 1424 01:12:03,359 --> 01:12:03,920 Speaker 2: too much. 1425 01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,920 Speaker 1: Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays on the Paranormal UK 1426 01:13:05,199 --> 01:13:05,960 Speaker 1: Radio Network.