Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best
Speaker 1: in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.
Speaker 1: Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays on the Paranormal UK
Speaker 1: Radio Network. It hasn't changed in millions of years. But here,
Speaker 1: here we have a clue to an answer. Let me
Speaker 1: know when you've got your instruments ready.
Speaker 2: I need all the figures I can get. But what
Speaker 2: was it?
Speaker 1: Science didn't know, but dedicated scientists were willing to risk
Speaker 1: their lives to find out.
Speaker 2: Hello, this is Michael Peeley and you're listening to the
Speaker 2: Paranormal UK Radio Network, the UK's biggest paranormal network, and
Speaker 2: this is Paranormal Dimensions with David Young.
Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to the show. I'm David Young. This is
Speaker 1: another special extra show for you, as I announced last week,
Speaker 1: and my guest is Mark League, making another welcome return
Speaker 1: to the show. And this, as it turns out, is
Speaker 1: going to be a part one. Mark will be returning
Speaker 1: later on in the year to do Part two. But
Speaker 1: before we get into that, I did actually put out
Speaker 1: a little lead last week for a SkyWatch on the
Speaker 1: Essex Suffolk border. If anyone's interested, I believe there are
Speaker 1: still tickets left. I think there's a limit of fifty.
Speaker 1: If you're interested. There all listen to this.
Speaker 3: You've all heard of close Encounters of the third kind,
Speaker 3: but are you aware there is a fifth? Close and
Speaker 3: Counters of the Fifth Kind or CE five is centered
Speaker 3: around human initiated cosmic contact with our et frames designed
Speaker 3: and promoted by doctor Stephen Greed since the nineties. Come
Speaker 3: and try it for yourself and an event being held
Speaker 3: on Saturday the third of August on the Boarder for
Speaker 3: Essex and Suffolk. To book your place, visit www sepe
Speaker 3: Hyphenagency dot com, s E p I Hyphenagency dot com.
Speaker 3: Today spaces are limited, so.
Speaker 1: There it is. That's this coming Saturday, the third of August.
Speaker 1: Let's ho the weather stays nice. Right on with the show.
Speaker 1: My guest today is once again mister Mark Ollie, Hi Mark,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Hi should be back again?
Speaker 1: Well yeah, you're say, welcome back to the show. And
Speaker 1: also this is a part one part we're doing. We're
Speaker 1: doing a Kevin Costa. I'll just I just mentioned they've
Speaker 1: been seeing Kevin Costa Western this afternoon and that's in
Speaker 1: two parts. But this is so this is a two
Speaker 1: part epic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think we're going to do three
Speaker 2: hours apart the usual time. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to
Speaker 2: look at the UK archaeological discoveries and mysteries and what
Speaker 2: have you that I've run across, and then yeah, it's
Speaker 2: time beyond me. Time we got international it.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're going to do the two parts of which
Speaker 1: will go out of the UK and we'll go all
Speaker 1: around the world, and I think we need to be
Speaker 1: three hours for that one apparently, Yeah, we get into
Speaker 1: part three, you know, But anyway, I think we're going
Speaker 1: to concentrate on the UK today we've put it, and
Speaker 1: bring a few other bits that might connect it into
Speaker 1: if they are a broader because something you get connections,
Speaker 1: don't you, is the people if another country has built
Speaker 1: something over here or something. Yeah, I think we'll go
Speaker 1: into the eerie because I've titled the Eerie Archaeological Archaeological
Speaker 1: the UK, So because I mean this is a paranormal show,
Speaker 1: people will be expected to hear about a few the
Speaker 1: eerie aspects of you know, ghosts and haltings, and.
Speaker 2: I'll lean that way. Then I'll kind of go that
Speaker 2: way with some of the stories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, So I mean I'm not an
Speaker 1: expert on archaeology, so you're going to be doing most
Speaker 1: of the talking. So and I'm going to be learning
Speaker 1: from you as I usually as I usually do.
Speaker 2: You're going to leave with some really good questions. But
Speaker 2: yeah I can Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I might come up with a while or two. You
Speaker 1: never know when when they put me to the head,
Speaker 1: this little head I've got anyway, Mark starts off, well,
Speaker 1: what would you say is probably the let's say the
Speaker 1: eeriest or the town city maybe in the UK for
Speaker 1: for archaeology archaeological reasons.
Speaker 2: Wow, gosh, Well, I've got to say there's there's a
Speaker 2: tremendous number of cities that are built on top of
Speaker 2: old cemeteries, absolutely without a doubt, and obviously obviously cemeteries
Speaker 2: above ground, like the famous ones in London and Edinburgh,
Speaker 2: you know those kind of thing as places, they're super creepy,
Speaker 2: but they're also super well known. So I tend to
Speaker 2: lean more towards personal experience. As soon as you said,
Speaker 2: you know, most creepy. I was on an ex when
Speaker 2: I started off. It was an interesting story because I
Speaker 2: started extremely young. I started digging with my dad when
Speaker 2: I was only till of eight years old. He was
Speaker 2: a volunteer digger in the sixties and seventies, so he
Speaker 2: was on all kinds of different sites. He was doing
Speaker 2: rome and he was doing medievally. You know, this area
Speaker 2: of the north is particularly well known for having there's
Speaker 2: layers and layers and layers of it. But literally just
Speaker 2: a few miles down the road from where we live here.
Speaker 2: We didn't know at the time when I was fourteen,
Speaker 2: but they stumbled on an old priory. We didn't realize
Speaker 2: this priory was there because they we decided they were
Speaker 2: going to build run called new Town and run on
Speaker 2: new towns on this headland that juts out. And when
Speaker 2: they started looking at the buildings and doing the survey
Speaker 2: ready for building new houses, they walked into this stable
Speaker 2: because that's it's quote stable, which was a bit of
Speaker 2: a cowshed. It had loads of you know, animal muck
Speaker 2: up to sort of oh terrible, I mean down cesspits
Speaker 2: and digging in all anyway.
Speaker 1: I used to when I was about fifteen sixteen, I
Speaker 1: used to take your breath away. It's terrible.
Speaker 2: There was about twelve foot of this stuff that had
Speaker 2: built up in this building. So but they could see
Speaker 2: there was an undercroft, you know, the top of it
Speaker 2: looked like the form of an undercroft. Anyway, has this expanded.
Speaker 2: What we didn't know at the time was it was
Speaker 2: becoming the biggest medieval monastic dig in Europe. So it
Speaker 2: was huge. I think it still is. I think it
Speaker 2: still holds the record as the biggest one. And as
Speaker 2: they gradually started to expand, this word creeped out through
Speaker 2: the archaeology community that this was happening. Just down the road.
Speaker 2: Now behind my house here, just just sort of up
Speaker 2: the road is a canal. It's the Bridgewater Canal. It's
Speaker 2: one of the oldest canals in the UK. Well, the
Speaker 2: canal cuts straight through the top end of the priory grounds.
Speaker 2: So me and a friend of mine one day we thought, right,
Speaker 2: we'll go off and we'll walk to it, you know,
Speaker 2: we'll we'll walk down the canal and we'll just drop
Speaker 2: in and see what they're doing. So we walked all
Speaker 2: the way down to this priory, which is known as
Speaker 2: Norton Priory, and we came in on the canal. So
Speaker 2: then we start wandering round the dig site and at
Speaker 2: this point it's already exciting. There's tons of buildings coming up.
Speaker 2: There's a massive monastic cemetery. They've got the cloisters, they've
Speaker 2: got the main church, they've got coffins. You know, with
Speaker 2: night ign you're on the top. Absolutely amazing. So we're
Speaker 2: wandering around and then we bump into this guy with
Speaker 2: like a black uniform and two Doberman and he's like,
Speaker 2: what you're doing on here labs? And we're like, well
Speaker 2: told in the story. So we've walked in. You know,
Speaker 2: we heard about it, and you know, I do archaeology
Speaker 2: as a volunteer, and this, that and the other. He said,
Speaker 2: oh right, okay, I've got some meal needed to speak to.
Speaker 2: So he took us to the site director. And it
Speaker 2: turns out they were looking for volunteers, volunteer diggers, and
Speaker 2: a lot of the volunteers were teenagers, you know, mid
Speaker 2: teens and upper teens. So we joined the team. So
Speaker 2: I ended up digging on Norton Priory for about four
Speaker 2: or four or five years. But the punchline is about
Speaker 2: around about the second or third year that I was
Speaker 2: digging on there, that particular season, they thought they would
Speaker 2: open all the graves up and you know, map all
Speaker 2: the graves and have a look at the burials. And
Speaker 2: there's one point where I'm I'm actually digging on somebody's
Speaker 2: rib cage, so I'm brushing this just the way and
Speaker 2: you could see this really dark skeleton coming up from
Speaker 2: the earth below me. And then I remember, this is
Speaker 2: this is going to gross you out. It's more gross
Speaker 2: than it is. I remember them blowing the lunchtime whistle.
Speaker 2: Now back then, I mean this is nineteen seventeen, nineteen eighties.
Speaker 2: Back then they didn't have all the health and safety
Speaker 2: have got now. So I just kind of dusted hands,
Speaker 2: you open me butty box and started into me butties.
Speaker 1: You know, you can we exposed all sorts of stuff,
Speaker 1: can't you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you just start eating me butties. But
Speaker 2: when I looked up and I looked out, apparently apparently
Speaker 2: I realized afterwards they had one hundred and sixty four
Speaker 2: skeletons all under excavation, all at the same time. Christ
Speaker 2: So like you're seeing these horror films, you know, as
Speaker 2: far as they can see, it's just medieval burials everywhere.
Speaker 1: I just said, that is a question with me. When
Speaker 1: when does archaeology stop being graver robbied because well, because
Speaker 1: there's a line, there's a very thin line. There isn't
Speaker 1: there where you've got to when you started digging graves up.
Speaker 2: Well we didn't.
Speaker 1: We didn't actually in order.
Speaker 2: To answer it. I mean, everything that was on earth
Speaker 2: was on earthed with the reason because what they wanted
Speaker 2: to do was get a location and a size and
Speaker 2: a shape for everything that was under the main church building.
Speaker 2: So they needed to do all that because obviously there's
Speaker 2: building work coming in and eventually they ended up preserving
Speaker 2: the site and opening it to members of the public.
Speaker 2: So you have to consider that. So the first thing
Speaker 2: you do is you record it all. It's not like
Speaker 2: tom robbing. It's not like you go in and smash everything.
Speaker 2: The bit most of these graves have nothing in them,
Speaker 2: I have to say that, just bodies. But the bodies
Speaker 2: also have a story to tell. So Forensically, even as
Speaker 2: long ago as the nineteen eighties, they were still aware
Speaker 2: of the fact that these things held DNA, they held
Speaker 2: information about diseases, about family relationships, and a lot of them,
Speaker 2: as it turned out, were night It's templar, so it
Speaker 2: was really significant. It's the only Augustinian abbe to remain
Speaker 2: that way throughout the whole of the medieval period. It
Speaker 2: was the biggest one in Britain and it's the only
Speaker 2: one that's known that overlaps with the Welsh, so what
Speaker 2: you're looking at is Welsh templars. Unique. You know. It
Speaker 2: was also very early Romanesque, so the very beginnings of
Speaker 2: Gothic architecture, the early stuff that begins with things like Naughton.
Speaker 2: It was only founded in ten eleven twenty seven, so
Speaker 2: in eleven twenty seven the whole thing was in its infancy.
Speaker 2: But the key with Norton is it was founded by
Speaker 2: hud Peons, the grand master of the original Jerusalem Templars,
Speaker 2: because he came over here and talked to all the
Speaker 2: nobles and barons and the nobles of Chester and the
Speaker 2: nobles of Holton and decided that was where they were
Speaker 2: going to put the original starting foundation, if you like.
Speaker 2: Most of the others changed to Cistercian, but this one
Speaker 2: stayed as Augustinian. So the amount of respect and the
Speaker 2: level of care that's going on there was phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal,
Speaker 2: and again different again from Grave Robin. What they did
Speaker 2: was they took all the bodies as individual units and
Speaker 2: then lifted them to get them out of the way
Speaker 2: so they no longer capable of being damaged or disturbed.
Speaker 2: They were then stored properly correctly in a facility underneath
Speaker 2: I believe it's Liverpool Museum. It's in their storage facility.
Speaker 2: All the bones were studded and as far as I know,
Speaker 2: they were then all reburied, so they've all gone back
Speaker 2: to another monastic foundation. Yeah. Yeah, now that that process,
Speaker 2: I mean nowadays, if you did it now, it would
Speaker 2: just be ridiculously expensive. You know, they did it for
Speaker 2: the railways in London. They had to lift a lot
Speaker 2: of cemeteries down there, and that procedure, which we were
Speaker 2: developing in the late seventies early eighties, that proceeding now
Speaker 2: has developed even further so it's it's a million miles away,
Speaker 2: a million miles away from from grave robbing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is for the listeners.
Speaker 2: It's more for the listeners.
Speaker 1: No, it's something that's always I've always had a question
Speaker 1: there because when when do you actually draw that line?
Speaker 1: But when when it's acceptable to dig a grave up
Speaker 1: for the sake of archaeology.
Speaker 2: Basically nowadays you have to have a damn good reason.
Speaker 2: I'm in a sort of offshoot of em Resto Law's
Speaker 2: Druid Order, which is honoring the ancient dead, and we
Speaker 2: deal with that side of things. If there's something going
Speaker 2: on that we feel is inappropriate, we will step in.
Speaker 2: If it's done scientifically, and it's done, you know, with
Speaker 2: reverence and attention to their original belief system and where
Speaker 2: the things are found, then that in a sense is acceptable,
Speaker 2: especially so if you're saving those remains, if it's a
Speaker 2: choice between they either get destroyed or they get preserved
Speaker 2: for future generations, I think that's also a consideration. I
Speaker 2: mean in terms of grave Robin. I mean, you could
Speaker 2: nick the jewelry, or you can nick whatever.
Speaker 1: Which has happened in places we're probably talking about this
Speaker 1: when we do the show, but the Egypt and.
Speaker 2: Nowadays. Nowadays you get more information out of the teeth.
Speaker 2: The teeth is a valuable because they contain DNA, They
Speaker 2: contain you know, the whole life history of the person.
Speaker 2: It can tell you where they were born, you know.
Speaker 2: The the human remains, which in the past were just
Speaker 2: cast aside, now actually takes center stage. I mean, to
Speaker 2: be honest with the museums are full of you know,
Speaker 2: coins and brooches and gold things. You know, there's no
Speaker 2: need to do that anymore. So so it's driven by needs.
Speaker 2: And also the end results are different, I think from
Speaker 2: the way the public perceive it. You know, it's a
Speaker 2: different approach. But it was funny the way we did
Speaker 2: it because they just did them all at once. Nowadays
Speaker 2: that have moved down that the site you know in
Speaker 2: perhaps in rows, they really had the time to do
Speaker 2: it back then, so they just did the whole lot
Speaker 2: and go. There's been so many skeletons, you know, it's
Speaker 2: quite spooky as well. If we didn't finish till late
Speaker 2: at nights. He sort of sat, Yeah, you know these
Speaker 2: skulls staring up at.
Speaker 1: You know, an early interaction to all that sort of
Speaker 1: stuffy I mean, yeah, what almost fascinates from England with
Speaker 1: these archaelloginal sites. How deep and you know the layers
Speaker 1: of soil that goes over the top of them, and
Speaker 1: how they managed to you know, do they sink or
Speaker 1: I get I always wonder how where I get so
Speaker 1: much stuff over the top of it.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a mixture of things. I mean, I
Speaker 2: before I got into archaeology yesterday geology, because I felt
Speaker 2: that the two were sort of hand in hand. If
Speaker 2: that did at the same time, as I was qualifying
Speaker 2: at one, I was looking at the other as well,
Speaker 2: I was doing both at once. What happens is you
Speaker 2: get you get deposits coming down in the rain, you
Speaker 2: get wind blown deposits, you get deposits coming through nature,
Speaker 2: so you get leaves, you get all this stuff. Bran,
Speaker 2: she's coming down and all that. Occasionally there's rubbish involved.
Speaker 2: So then you do actually get a layer building up,
Speaker 2: things like grass, natural groundcover that will start to yeah,
Speaker 2: puts another layer on top. Occasionally you do get things sinking,
Speaker 2: things do settle, and that'll push them deeper down. But
Speaker 2: Norton was a good example. One of the reasons it
Speaker 2: was under threat is it was literally that the depth
Speaker 2: of the church floor it was only about toward ten
Speaker 2: inches off the grass, so it's extremely close to the
Speaker 2: top and that was something they had to consider. And
Speaker 2: then obviously they lifted the floors and the burials were
Speaker 2: below that, but you're only talking sort of in the
Speaker 2: top two or three feet of ground. It was incredibly
Speaker 2: close to the surface, and that's what made it dangerous,
Speaker 2: you know, there's still there's still a field with burials
Speaker 2: in close to the site, and the farmer is not
Speaker 2: allowed to put live stock on there because of that danger.
Speaker 2: If you had cows, you know, cattle and horses churning
Speaker 2: the ground up, you need twelve to eighteen inches of
Speaker 2: clearance before it starts damaging what's below. So that was
Speaker 2: another thing that came out.
Speaker 1: So that's his own lanes that he can't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he can't. It's still his land and he won't
Speaker 2: let anybody excavate it. I don't know why. He's just
Speaker 2: a bit, you know, sort of stuck in his mind
Speaker 2: that that's how it's going to be. But it's it's
Speaker 2: a closed site. You can't build on it and you
Speaker 2: can't put live stock on it or anything else that
Speaker 2: involves churning up the ground because it's a Grade one
Speaker 2: listed site. But that's kind of the other alternative. You
Speaker 2: had both of them side by side. You had one
Speaker 2: full excavation and rescue, and then you had the other
Speaker 2: side of it, which was you can't touch it because
Speaker 2: we're leaving it where it is. So that kind of
Speaker 2: gives you both sides of the coin. You know, there's
Speaker 2: there's both were in evidence at norm fantastic dig I
Speaker 2: think they're still chipping away at it now. There's the
Speaker 2: little bits of it keep popping up from time to time.
Speaker 2: Great and so to the public people can go visit it.
Speaker 1: Really, if I was that farm, it as much funny
Speaker 1: as I could off that end, you know, excavated and everything, and.
Speaker 2: It usually costs more than you ever hope to make.
Speaker 1: I mean, you never know what's going to be dug out,
Speaker 1: do you know, you have no idea what's treasure? All
Speaker 1: sorts of treasures.
Speaker 2: Could be internationally important artifacts down there, but they're probably
Speaker 2: going to be slightly deeper than you'd get with the
Speaker 2: metal detector. The field can't be detected anyway. It's it's
Speaker 2: a listed international protected site, so you would get to
Speaker 2: find thousands if you went on there.
Speaker 1: So is there no deep seeking equipment that can be
Speaker 1: sort of scanned over the stop of it just to
Speaker 1: sort of get a look at it all?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can. You can float into ground penetrating radar
Speaker 2: which will give you a sort of half decent image,
Speaker 2: but that that varies according to the ground conditions. Metal
Speaker 2: detectors are kind of a yes or a no. You know,
Speaker 2: is it metal or isn't it? Does any metal? Little
Speaker 2: hit it ground radar, It's subject to all the features,
Speaker 2: all the disturbances, ground water, you know, whether it's wet
Speaker 2: or dry, what's going on, what what the cover is,
Speaker 2: you know, so it's it's not as it's not as
Speaker 2: easy or cheap. I think they've got a pretty good
Speaker 2: idea what's under this field though. I think they think
Speaker 2: that's where all the sort of big wigs in the
Speaker 2: church was buried, you know, the abbots and all that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. I think they're all buried in this field.
Speaker 2: So there'll be something some impressive stone coffins, but.
Speaker 1: It would be quite impressive. Thought. Yeah, so you never
Speaker 1: know why maybe oh yeah, to get the call so
Speaker 1: if anyone wants to, if anyone's listening, So where do
Speaker 1: we go from HEREDI mark? Is so next one of
Speaker 1: your personal experiences of your early personal experience.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's a few. There's a few like that.
Speaker 2: I also ended up digging Warrington Friary, which is right
Speaker 2: in the center of Warrington town. And again that was
Speaker 2: another one that involved excavating bodies and I think a
Speaker 2: lot of those they left in situ. But there's a
Speaker 2: lot of spooky ghost stories associated with town Center. One
Speaker 2: of the famous ones you're going to love this the
Speaker 2: lower part of the buildings stretched down towards the River Mersey,
Speaker 2: and a very very famous but very old story was
Speaker 2: they came to build the new telephone exchange on the
Speaker 2: site of this old building. Now this thing is a
Speaker 2: big concrete monstrosity, you know, with lifts in it and
Speaker 2: electrical supply and it's all made of nineteen seventies concrete.
Speaker 2: Almost from day one they had weird stuff going on
Speaker 2: in different rooms at different levels. And the very famous
Speaker 2: one was very often you saw it literally a monk
Speaker 2: dressed as a monk. You couldn't see his face because
Speaker 2: his odd was up, but you know, with the belt
Speaker 2: tied around his waist in like a black, brown or
Speaker 2: gray sort of overthing, and he'd float through the room.
Speaker 2: And this is like an office building, you know, so
Speaker 2: people would see him. Caretakers security in that and what
Speaker 2: he seemed to like to do was float through the
Speaker 2: room into the lift and then go up and.
Speaker 1: Down in the lift in the building.
Speaker 2: That is quite a famous one from the Friary from
Speaker 2: Warrington Friary, the ghost in the left the monk in
Speaker 2: the lift.
Speaker 1: That's quite fun.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: Quite a few like monks and things like that, and
Speaker 1: NaNs haunted, you know, or bickers or whatever. That's Would
Speaker 1: you think that a lot of the churches all over
Speaker 1: the country have probably got haunted. I think most of
Speaker 1: them have got hauntings, haven't they? Sort a couple here
Speaker 1: around the here even there there's a scull that manka
Speaker 1: that they talk about.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we've got a very famous burial ground here.
Speaker 2: It's on the hill behind me. It's it's called Highcliffe
Speaker 2: Hill or Hillcliff, and it's interesting because the main gate,
Speaker 2: the main structure that you enter is at the top
Speaker 2: of the hill and the church is at the bottom.
Speaker 2: So it's known as an inverted cemetery. And there aren't
Speaker 2: many of them. I think they're in single figures. And
Speaker 2: this is quite famous because there was a shootout between
Speaker 2: the Royalists and the cavaliers round edge of the Cavaliers
Speaker 2: back in the Civil War, and that took place over
Speaker 2: this cemetery. Oliver Cromwell apparently was preaching down at the
Speaker 2: church at the bottom of the hill and these these
Speaker 2: these guys, the Royalists, came over the top attacked him
Speaker 2: and attacked his camp, and they gave Chase and gave
Speaker 2: Chase back over the top of the hill. So again
Speaker 2: that gave rise to another famous ghost story. If you
Speaker 2: go down the road at the back, the last skirmish
Speaker 2: happened at the bottom of the road, and it's said
Speaker 2: that at the end the thing that stopped it was
Speaker 2: that Oliver Cromwell's white horse was shot away from under him.
Speaker 2: And the story goes that if you go down there,
Speaker 2: of course on a moonlit night, and you go to
Speaker 2: the right spot on the road, you'll see the ghost
Speaker 2: of Oliver Cromwell's white horse. So that's quite a famous one.
Speaker 2: But the thing with cemeteries is you don't tend to
Speaker 2: get roving, ghostly scary things in burial grounds. It's actually
Speaker 2: quite rare to have a proper full on haunted cemetery.
Speaker 2: I used to go wandering through cemeteries on Halloween at midnight,
Speaker 2: you know, just to can't approve. Yeah. Yeah, of all
Speaker 2: the places you're going to find a dead person, the
Speaker 2: cemetery is probably the last place, you know. But if
Speaker 2: you build stuff on it, or you disturb it in
Speaker 2: some way, that can that really to trigger things off
Speaker 2: you know I've already said, you know, excavation, military conflict,
Speaker 2: you know, building a building on top not a good idea.
Speaker 2: You know. They seem to like the burial grounds to
Speaker 2: be left well alone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose when you think about it, it's like
Speaker 1: a place to eternal rists of it. So there would
Speaker 1: there would be a place where you'd want to risk
Speaker 1: and not sort of be disturbing anything until some disturbed
Speaker 1: cube were building something on it.
Speaker 2: Well exactly, and in the past there were a lot
Speaker 2: more hardcore with that. You know, they tended to leave
Speaker 2: all these sites alone. So a lot of them have
Speaker 2: only been destroyed in let's say the last undred, one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years. I mean it's Industrial revolution times
Speaker 2: have caused the damage, you know, So you cain of
Speaker 2: burial grounds that are two three four thousand years old.
Speaker 2: A good example of this house that I live in,
Speaker 2: because it's actually built on a Romano Celtic burial ground.
Speaker 2: So we've got Anglo Saxon and Roman and Celtic burials
Speaker 2: right underneath the building. Front and back garden goes out
Speaker 2: for a couple of square miles in each direction because
Speaker 2: the main Roman road comes past the front of here. Well,
Speaker 2: this was built in nineteen twenty five, so it's in
Speaker 2: that period when they didn't really seem to give a
Speaker 2: toss about where they built. Disturb you know, has so
Speaker 2: many stories of builders building things and finding skeletons and
Speaker 2: burials and just fill in them in, just putting them
Speaker 2: in with the building rubble and leaving them, you know,
Speaker 2: because it would stop the building process, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet there's quite a few murders were committed
Speaker 1: as well, you know, before he had the days of
Speaker 1: DNA testing and all that and people. You know, we've
Speaker 1: already heard about the famous burderers and where they buried
Speaker 1: things in the wall or under the floor boards or
Speaker 1: in the garden or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to think about illogically, you would expect
Speaker 2: a burial ground is the best place to hide a body,
Speaker 2: you know, but what seems to have happened is almost
Speaker 2: the reverse. There's a lot of burial grounds where you
Speaker 2: had body snatchers. So I did archaeology on another church
Speaker 2: or something in the north of England, one down at Warburton.
Speaker 2: And at Warburton there's a whole drilled in the church
Speaker 2: door and what they would do is they'd sit inside
Speaker 2: with one of these blunderbust guns and every time anyone
Speaker 2: was buried, they would look through the hole waiting for
Speaker 2: the body snatchers to come and dig them up. And
Speaker 2: that's archaeology again, you know. And a lot of the
Speaker 2: graves were robbed, bodies were taken, you know, injury and
Speaker 2: all this kind of thing. Yeah, no, the attitude really
Speaker 2: changed dramatically in the eighteen and nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 1: What about High Gates Cemetery? Did you ever have you
Speaker 1: know in London? Did you ever come to that one
Speaker 1: Highgate Cemetry? I've heard there's a couple of ghosts that
Speaker 1: do haunt that. I don't know what ones they are, actually,
Speaker 1: but I know it's been mentioned.
Speaker 2: It's on my to do list. It's very famous. I
Speaker 2: think there was a Highgate vampire.
Speaker 1: Well, if you don't do it, give us a shout.
Speaker 1: I'll go with you. Oh yeah, because I always.
Speaker 2: Don't brave you less. Yes, we don't have a look
Speaker 2: at on bike or something, you know, to get going there.
Speaker 2: We'll get the platform if we talk about congestion and
Speaker 2: all that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, i'd love to.
Speaker 2: I'd love to go and have a look.
Speaker 1: But I've always wanted to go.
Speaker 2: Actually, so I'm pretty sure there's vampires in case of
Speaker 2: the High Game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that there are a couple of
Speaker 1: creepy stories, no doubt. There's a few books out there
Speaker 1: on it. Let's have a little Google to see.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you ever, if you ever go off
Speaker 2: into if you have a holiday in Wales and you
Speaker 2: go look at any of the little cemeteries in Wales,
Speaker 2: there's some brilliantly creepy ones out there that really that
Speaker 2: have not been accessed for for a long long time,
Speaker 2: and they're equally as good as igates.
Speaker 1: So yeah, weight of Cornwall, actually we visit the capital
Speaker 1: of the old churches. You know, there was a there
Speaker 1: was a lovely little church actually was a little graveyard around.
Speaker 1: It was really picturesque was but inside the church itself
Speaker 1: was very very tiny. I can't remember what was pretty
Speaker 1: good here somewhere, but yeah, it was lovely. It was
Speaker 1: you could just sort of wandering and you know, it's.
Speaker 2: The Celtic chapel thing, because they always have a tiny chapel.
Speaker 2: It's small. So if you go sort of Whales Islands, Scotland,
Speaker 2: you know, and Cornwall, because obviously that's the Celtic side
Speaker 2: of things. You know, they always have these tiny chapels
Speaker 2: dotted around all over the place, you know, some fantastic ones.
Speaker 2: We dug on. We dug on one. Back to the
Speaker 2: topic in hand, we did a Saint Bueno's chapel, which
Speaker 2: is just outside Core and nobody actually knew where that was,
Speaker 2: and we spent a whole week searching one particular site
Speaker 2: where it was thought to be. And it's typical, typical
Speaker 2: of archaeological digs. You get to the last day and
Speaker 2: you know you've only got you know, so many hours
Speaker 2: before sunset, and that's it. And then somebody came running
Speaker 2: in and said, we found some foundations. They're boulders. So
Speaker 2: we think we've got the outline of the chapel. We
Speaker 2: think we know where it is, and we've been digging
Speaker 2: in completely the wrong place. But anyway, when we survey ed,
Speaker 2: it turned out that was more than likely what we
Speaker 2: were looking for, and it was just off the site,
Speaker 2: which was quite nice because it meant it was protected.
Speaker 2: The bit we were on was going to be opened
Speaker 2: up to development. But St. Bonos Chapel, I've got a
Speaker 2: very good idea where that is.
Speaker 1: Was that disappointing to point you were digging in the
Speaker 1: wrong place or was it something that you accept.
Speaker 2: It kind of goes with the territory. The bit where
Speaker 2: you were on what we Bueno's Chapel is proper Celtic,
Speaker 2: so you look in you know, six seven, eight hundred AD,
Speaker 2: that sort of you know, three figure period. What we
Speaker 2: were on was monastic, so it looked to be more
Speaker 2: like eleven, twelve, thirteen hundreds, so in the four figures there.
Speaker 2: But nevertheless, I mean to find something that's medieval and
Speaker 2: then to unearth that and to plan that. That did
Speaker 2: change the way they developed the site at that point.
Speaker 2: It was back in nineteen ninety nine. We did it.
Speaker 2: They redeveloped the house, rebuilt it, rebuilt the whole enclosure.
Speaker 2: But hopefully, with a bit of luck, they left the
Speaker 2: bit that was outside that they left that bit alone.
Speaker 2: So that was a success story. And if you like,
Speaker 2: we also found a couple of burial mounds that they
Speaker 2: didn't know were there, and Corhen and d Valley Cadvasti
Speaker 2: Archaeology group down there have excavated one recently that we found.
Speaker 2: It was half of one in a field boundary and
Speaker 2: that's turned out to be quite significant. That's Bronze age.
Speaker 2: It's a Bronze Age burial, so archaeology sort of breeds archaeology,
Speaker 2: if you know what I mean. Going you know, it
Speaker 2: just it just balloons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fever.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And what's your pinpoint? Where the
Speaker 2: sites are? Only got so much time to do each site?
Speaker 2: They can take years. You know, it's what nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: nine we were on there, and it was twenty thirteen
Speaker 2: they were digging on there. So you know it's you know,
Speaker 2: took fourteen fifteen. It's for more than that, twenty four
Speaker 2: to twenty five years to do the whole of that
Speaker 2: area and really sort of do it justice.
Speaker 1: I guess the weather could have fit that as well.
Speaker 1: Carn it. Yeah, no, in this country, you know, you
Speaker 1: never know where you get a downpour of rain or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I suppose if you get a big downpour of rain,
Speaker 1: it actually stops everything for a few days then thought.
Speaker 2: It can do exit. It floods the trenches and some
Speaker 2: sites are how can I call it dirt sensitive, So
Speaker 2: you can't just go in there and just go you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, You can't splurge across the site
Speaker 2: because you're looking for different colors. You know, the brown
Speaker 2: birt's the foundation, the gray dirty floor surface, the orange
Speaker 2: sandy dirt is the bit underneath, you know, and so
Speaker 2: on and so on, and you've got to be able
Speaker 2: to tell the differences and see the hatterens. So it
Speaker 2: doesn't hate rain because it just mud. It's terrible, terrible.
Speaker 2: Age is for it to dry out and ages to
Speaker 2: clean it off afterwards. Yeah, these are things people don't
Speaker 2: think about, you know, of archaeology.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or club that Wellington's, I can imagine, Oh you
Speaker 1: don't want to kneel in it. You mentioned that the
Speaker 1: Knights Templar, which is quite a fascinating subject in this country.
Speaker 1: Is there a lot of information about not Simpler that
Speaker 1: is actually hidden still here? Or is it still or
Speaker 1: is it readily available?
Speaker 2: Okay, the answer is both yes and no, because in
Speaker 2: the yes sense, there are certain sites that have had
Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of work done on them. People focus
Speaker 2: on them. So any site that begins temple so you know, Temple, Kun, Temple, whatever,
Speaker 2: they've focused on those sites and they've generally tended to
Speaker 2: get lots of information. That having been said that no
Speaker 2: side of it. There's a huge number of sites that
Speaker 2: are either missing, or they're not recording properly, or they
Speaker 2: only appear on a state map, so nobody's actually gone
Speaker 2: out and looked at them. We did a sign Derbyshire.
Speaker 2: There was one particular house just outside Buxton and it
Speaker 2: looked very suspiciously like there were medieval buildings of some
Speaker 2: kind there and possibly a prehistoric landscape. There was a
Speaker 2: few chambered things and what have you, and we ended
Speaker 2: up finding the oldest lime kiln in Buxton. It was
Speaker 2: an early medieval, so you're talking late ten hundreds, early
Speaker 2: eleven hundreds, this big kiln structure. It's an amazing thing
Speaker 2: because when we actually opened the door, you go inside
Speaker 2: proper raids as the lost arc, you know. But then
Speaker 2: we got into Chatsworth House and we had a look
Speaker 2: at chats with library. We had a look at their
Speaker 2: records for land ownership, and it turns out the little
Speaker 2: enclosure that we didn't think was particularly significant socking great
Speaker 2: big templar crosses all over it, you know. So it
Speaker 2: was part of the Derbyshire Templar Conclave. And that's that's
Speaker 2: what those areas where people just didn't even know the
Speaker 2: templars were there. You actually go all the way back
Speaker 2: to the earlier state maps. It's a little bit similar
Speaker 2: with the hospital is not quite as obscure, but templars. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So this half of it I wouldn't probably bother spending
Speaker 2: any more time on because it's been well and truly done.
Speaker 2: But the adventure isn't over. There's still another half that's
Speaker 2: out there, and there's a lot of it still needs finding.
Speaker 2: Wales in particular, we know there were templars in Wales,
Speaker 2: but nobody knows where the hell they were.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've heard that they actually worked eventually
Speaker 1: worked into the freemason area. Is it actually true? Do
Speaker 1: you know that evidence of it?
Speaker 2: Well, i'll give you I'll give you a brief history
Speaker 2: of that. When the Pope sided with the French king
Speaker 2: and said right, I'm doing away with the templars in
Speaker 2: thirteen fourteen in this country, the Edwards rather liked the kings,
Speaker 2: the Edward Kings rather like the Templars, and they gave
Speaker 2: them thirty four years to get out of the way.
Speaker 2: So they gradually the templars vanished into Wales, Island and
Speaker 2: Scotland because then they're out of the reach of the pope,
Speaker 2: so you can be excommunicated and hunted down in England
Speaker 2: but not in Wales, Island or Scotland. Scotland is particularly
Speaker 2: interesting when it comes to the Masonic side of it
Speaker 2: because the third if you look at the clan burial grounds,
Speaker 2: there's a distinctive type of knights burial. It's like a
Speaker 2: too stone with the knight on top, you know, with
Speaker 2: the shield, sword, the armor. Well, you've got them. Basically,
Speaker 2: you've got these burials. They start in the late ten
Speaker 2: hundreds because they're Viking in origin, and then they go
Speaker 2: full on templar. You got full on templar burials for
Speaker 2: the eleven hundreds, the twelve hundreds and the thirteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: And this is where it gets interesting because then they
Speaker 2: carry on into the fourteen hundreds, the fifteen hundreds, and
Speaker 2: to some extent the sixteen hundreds. It's an unbroken line.
Speaker 2: You can see the way they're doing them. Well. The
Speaker 2: implication is that the Masons adopted the templars in Scotland
Speaker 2: in either the fourteen hundreds or the fifteen hundreds, so
Speaker 2: you can actually pinpoint and overlap. Most people don't realize
Speaker 2: that the clan burial grounds are the key to it,
Speaker 2: but you can see stylistically building wise. Rossi Chapel is
Speaker 2: a good example because Rosslyn is fifteenth century most is
Speaker 2: fourteen hundreds. That's one hundred years after the templars should
Speaker 2: have gone. The iconography in there gives it away as
Speaker 2: having massive templar influence because it never went away. So
Speaker 2: there is some There is definitely some evidence that practicing
Speaker 2: templars drifted into.
Speaker 1: The came a secret society type of that, which eventually
Speaker 1: turned into a lot of Freemasons where the Masons came from,
Speaker 1: say entirely that way, but I think the Masons came
Speaker 1: from the Masons.
Speaker 2: If that so, what were originally Masons worked in Freestone.
Speaker 2: I think that we've got evidence that that gradually developed
Speaker 2: into from I mean, it's a.
Speaker 1: Bit like I'm not saying I'm not saying the mafia,
Speaker 1: but you know, in a mafia turned into like legal
Speaker 1: businesses and stuff and worked into the normal way of
Speaker 1: life thing. So it's kind of like that wor.
Speaker 2: The temples didn't really have anywhere to go so ended
Speaker 2: up going off to the hospitalers. But both templars and
Speaker 2: the hospitals fords really strong connections with freemasonry, and you
Speaker 2: can see it. You know, you can see it. It's there.
Speaker 2: It's there in some of the Masons documents as well.
Speaker 2: You can actually see there as an overlap.
Speaker 1: Must apologize turning members of the mafia that are listening,
Speaker 1: and any.
Speaker 2: Masons that don't want to see. I don't think we're
Speaker 2: giving any secret.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get chopped off. So, I mean these old buildings,
Speaker 1: you think that they can actually take on the persona
Speaker 1: of the people that lived there, so they become a hauntytail,
Speaker 1: so that you get a recording within them, with the
Speaker 1: within the buildings type of thing.
Speaker 2: Well, the short answer is more likely. Yes, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of scientific evidence to show quartz in particular, if
Speaker 2: you get quartz buildings in the structure. Quartz is known
Speaker 2: to be some kind of a recorder. It has memory
Speaker 2: qualities in it. You know, it's in this computer, it's
Speaker 2: in glass, it's in everything. It's in you know, silicon's
Speaker 2: in microchips. So it clearly there is more to it.
Speaker 2: The thing we don't get, the thing we don't understand
Speaker 2: is what sets it off, what triggers it off and
Speaker 2: puts it into replay. But there's an awful lot of
Speaker 2: people in paranormal generally that would agree with the statement
Speaker 2: that there is something in the building or about the
Speaker 2: location of the building that is attracting those energies and
Speaker 2: attracting those spirits there this one. I live in the
Speaker 2: haunted house. I live in. It functions a bit like
Speaker 2: a portal, because sometimes you've got stuff here and sometimes
Speaker 2: you haven't. Sometimes it depends on the person, you know,
Speaker 2: that can stir it all up. When we had the
Speaker 2: builders in, it was just crazy. You know. We had apparitions,
Speaker 2: we had things flying around. We had really well in
Speaker 2: tools down that disappeared and reappeared three days later, you know.
Speaker 2: And these are guys, rough, tough construction workers. You know.
Speaker 2: One guy waved to a fellow in the window here
Speaker 2: that he thought was my dad, and it wasn't. My
Speaker 2: dad was at the back synk here doing the up,
Speaker 2: you know, and it was he described the ghost that
Speaker 2: we have here. We have a guy in a sort
Speaker 2: of a tweed suit jacket with a pocket watch and
Speaker 2: a flat hat. Sometimes he's seen with the flat hat,
Speaker 2: sometimes he's not. But it was this guy, this guy
Speaker 2: that we're quite familiar with, and we just said to him.
Speaker 2: We just said, yeah, he's been here for the last
Speaker 2: you know, as long as we've been here forty to
Speaker 2: fifty years. He's a ghost.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's that where we are, it's the location, it's the
Speaker 2: orientation of the building, and like you say, it's the
Speaker 2: fabric itself. You know.
Speaker 1: So what you got is that actually an actual ghost
Speaker 1: or is it a recording other building in the buildings
Speaker 1: you think, Well, in.
Speaker 2: Our case here we think the function as ghosts. I
Speaker 2: don't think the recordings because they do different things each
Speaker 2: time they're seen, and they interact with objects and with
Speaker 2: people and animal So something's going on here more like
Speaker 2: a portal. Things come and go, you know, they're not
Speaker 2: here all the time we've I don't think we've ever
Speaker 2: had anything repeat, nothing's ever happened the same twice. But
Speaker 2: there's been loads seen. You know, we have all sorts
Speaker 2: of stuff happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for people out there at An example
Speaker 1: of that is if people see Roman soldiers but marching
Speaker 1: along with a we're in a building it and they
Speaker 1: don't sit, they don't seem to notice anyone around them
Speaker 1: or whatever, and they seem to be on a different
Speaker 1: level like the original level of the building.
Speaker 2: When I mentioned the cemetery on the hill. Here we
Speaker 2: have a stone cutting at the back and there's Roman
Speaker 2: soldiers said to march across that, and they could. They
Speaker 2: come across kind of knee height in the road, and
Speaker 2: they come diagonally across from one gap in the sandstone
Speaker 2: to another. They're always seen going in the same direction,
Speaker 2: the same height, same thing. And it seems to be
Speaker 2: on reap play. And that's been seen quite a lot,
Speaker 2: you know, over the years.
Speaker 1: Ghost to be like a recording plane.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a good argument that's a replay rather than
Speaker 2: a conscious conscious entity. There was a great one and
Speaker 2: I did. I did the Disappearing Ninth Legion, which is York,
Speaker 2: and there's I interviewed the farmer on this farm site
Speaker 2: and he's quite famous for a different story. I mean,
Speaker 2: we yes, we've got the Romans walking through the basement
Speaker 2: in the Treasurer's house. Everybody knows about that one. But
Speaker 2: this farmer told me this great story that's in my
Speaker 2: Ninth Legion book. And he said he was looking out
Speaker 2: of his kitchen window one night and he looks onto
Speaker 2: the square and he's got sort of a barn off
Speaker 2: to the right from his house, and he said he
Speaker 2: could see a light on in the barn, so he thought,
Speaker 2: I bet the wife's left the lights on or something
Speaker 2: like that. So he went out, walked into the barn.
Speaker 2: As he goes through the barn door, he said he
Speaker 2: felt really strange, and he walked into a Roman dining
Speaker 2: room with all people sat around at a banquet eating food,
Speaker 2: and he said he kind of froze and he stood there,
Speaker 2: and he doesn't how long he was stood there, but
Speaker 2: he said he started to get freaked out when people
Speaker 2: started to notice that he was there. So at first
Speaker 2: they didn't see him, and then somebody noticed he was there,
Speaker 2: they started looking at him. So he kind of backed
Speaker 2: out of the barn and just made a run for
Speaker 2: the house, and as he glanced. As he glanced back,
Speaker 2: all the lights had gone out in the barn. Now,
Speaker 2: this is where this gets really interesting, many many years
Speaker 2: after this, because that had too when he was a
Speaker 2: young man, and when I interviewed him, was very old.
Speaker 2: But when he was sort of in between, he said,
Speaker 2: the archaeologist came doing a survey and they surveyed everything
Speaker 2: and they managed to work out that his farm sits
Speaker 2: on top of a Roman villa, and that the barn
Speaker 2: sits on top of the banqueting house Roman. So was
Speaker 2: it a ghost or was it a time slit? Ye?
Speaker 1: I mean I've heard those stories before when somebody walking
Speaker 1: into a shop and all of a sudden they walked
Speaker 1: into an old an old old top hold your boldie
Speaker 1: shop where it shouldn't be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, time slips.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like really strange. I mean I wonder if
Speaker 1: you walked into that, you know, if you actually walked
Speaker 1: in there, could you get stuck in there?
Speaker 2: Well, I've got a great one for you. I've just
Speaker 2: done the forward for a book called Weird Time. So
Speaker 2: there's a plug. I've not done the book, but you
Speaker 2: can go and look it up. It's an American release.
Speaker 2: And they asked me to do like, you know, five
Speaker 2: hundred words for the forward. I ended up doing about
Speaker 2: two and a half thousand and three thousand.
Speaker 1: As you as you would, I know, you, yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: It can up when the going that whld story. When
Speaker 2: I was when I was a youngster, my dad had
Speaker 2: this thing where when we were coming back from Wales
Speaker 2: from holiday, he'd always come back a different way, you know,
Speaker 2: to see what we could find sort of thing. And
Speaker 2: this particular time he came through Leaking, Staffordshire and he
Speaker 2: went round this side of Rudyard Lake. I think it
Speaker 2: was only about eight years old, nine years old at
Speaker 2: the time. And as we went around the side of
Speaker 2: this lake, there was a cafe on the side of
Speaker 2: the road. It's set back on a terrace and you
Speaker 2: go up steps and you go into this cafe. So
Speaker 2: he pulls in and we go in for a milkshake. Well,
Speaker 2: as it turns out, they didn't do milkshakes. What we
Speaker 2: did was we sat at this table with four seats
Speaker 2: and the whole of the inside of it. Do you
Speaker 2: remember that sort of weird sort of yellow color that
Speaker 2: they had in the nineteen thirties, Everything was like pale
Speaker 2: green or pale yellow. The inside of this was all
Speaker 2: pale yellow. So it had yellow and white tile floor,
Speaker 2: big tiles.
Speaker 1: All cars were That was it.
Speaker 2: You can have any color ex Yeah, as as it
Speaker 2: was at the tabletops like fine small yellow check And
Speaker 2: there's a big chrome bar, a bit like an American
Speaker 2: diner type bar, and this chubby woman in yellow and
Speaker 2: white behind it. She comes out asks what we wanted.
Speaker 2: I can still remember to this day having halicks. Harlics
Speaker 2: used to come in these strange shaped mugs with the
Speaker 2: word haulicks stant in which you didn't realize. They're actually
Speaker 2: a lot older than I thought. Anyway, we had a
Speaker 2: halicks packed up disappeared off many many years later. So
Speaker 2: fast forward now I'm in me what would it be forties,
Speaker 2: maybe early fifties, and I met the local historian. I'm
Speaker 2: sat in the local historians place and chatting away to
Speaker 2: him and I tell him this story and he says,
Speaker 2: i'ing on a minute, let me just stop your moment.
Speaker 2: He goes to the bookshelf and he pulls this book
Speaker 2: off the shelf and he says, is this the cafe?
Speaker 2: And he shows me a page with three photographs on
Speaker 2: of the inside of this cafe. And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's it. But these photos are in black and white.
Speaker 2: And I said to him, yeah, I said, it's all
Speaker 2: yellow and white in there and chrome. You know, there's
Speaker 2: like a window over here and this that and the other.
Speaker 2: And he went, oh, he said, right, well there's a
Speaker 2: problem here. I said that. He said, well, those photographs
Speaker 2: I think he said they were taken in the year
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two to nineteen thirty three, and the cafe
Speaker 2: shut in the nineteen thirties. What every single thing I
Speaker 2: described from my visit, which would have been in the
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, nineteen seventy, sixty eight, sixty nine, seventy in
Speaker 2: that period, everything I described was exactly correct for that cafe.
Speaker 2: And he finished it by saying to me, he said,
Speaker 2: and there are no known surviving color photos.
Speaker 1: What that's amazing. Right now, I've got an important question
Speaker 1: for this. How much did they charge you for the holdings?
Speaker 2: I've got no idea because he.
Speaker 1: Down it must have been about hate or.
Speaker 2: When did we go out of imperial into decimal? When
Speaker 2: did we change over? That was nineteen sixties, wasn't.
Speaker 1: It seventy two? I think right?
Speaker 2: Well, we were still on the old money, so he'd
Speaker 2: have paid whatever she asked in old money. So if
Speaker 2: she'd have gone, like you know, two and six or
Speaker 2: eight me or whatever, everyone she asked them, and that
Speaker 2: was it and we were all.
Speaker 1: That's really strange.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: The thing is if it was I mean, if she
Speaker 1: was doing old money obvious is quite an important question,
Speaker 1: isn't it. If you if you were in a time skit?
Speaker 1: But you've gone back in time. Would she be asking
Speaker 1: for today's money price or that day's Monday price.
Speaker 2: And the worst thing that could happen, the course, is
Speaker 2: for my dad to just assume how.
Speaker 1: Much it was, or they should have thought, yeah.
Speaker 2: Should have gone up, that's all right in it, you know.
Speaker 2: But I was gone, I was out of the door
Speaker 2: before he paid. I finished me all.
Speaker 1: He probably gave her off a crown or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 1: Half a crowd, which is anyway, we won't go in
Speaker 1: to that. That's really freaky.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a proper time slip because because again
Speaker 2: I've driven past there many times and it's now a
Speaker 2: private house with the garage in front, so it's not
Speaker 2: what it was. It's the same shape, but yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't even know if the building is the same building.
Speaker 1: I mean, how did you take that in yourself? Did you?
Speaker 2: Did you?
Speaker 1: Was you freak out that well by the did you
Speaker 1: sit there trying to pass it out? No?
Speaker 2: I'm me personally, I'm at the point where I just
Speaker 2: accept things. You know. It was such a vivid memory,
Speaker 2: and I remembered it so well, and I don't have
Speaker 2: a huge number of memories from childhood I'm just not
Speaker 2: good at remembering stuff, so I just thought, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep that memory because it was a
Speaker 2: great memory. Even the Halics mug. I knew exactly what
Speaker 2: it was. It was this cream colored, slightly tapering mug
Speaker 2: with harlics in it, with a certain shaped handle on it.
Speaker 2: They are nineteen thirties mugs, you know. I only found
Speaker 2: that out sort of more recently, so I think there isn't.
Speaker 2: It didn't freak me out. It's not the strangest time
Speaker 2: slip I've ever had, because I was a stranger. Well
Speaker 2: nineteen what would it be, late nineteen eighties. So I'm
Speaker 2: in the music business. I'm doing session, I'm working with
Speaker 2: a band in Huddersfield, and I live over here in Warrington.
Speaker 2: And I remember going into a panic this particular morning
Speaker 2: because I was late. I looked at all clocks. I
Speaker 2: looked at me watching it's a kitchen clock and everything,
Speaker 2: and the time I left the front door was ten o'clock.
Speaker 2: Now I was supposed to be at the rehearsal in
Speaker 2: Huddersfield at ten o'clock. So I hit the road like
Speaker 2: grease lightning, you know, all the way up and whatever
Speaker 2: what would be sixty two and sixty Ring Road all
Speaker 2: the way up anyway, finished Roper Huddersfield came screaming into
Speaker 2: the car park at the rehearsal room. Jumped out said
Speaker 2: to all the band members, so I'm sorry, I'm late.
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. I'm late. I just got held up,
Speaker 2: you know, terribly sorry. And they all just looked at
Speaker 2: me like I was from planet Zog, Like, what do
Speaker 2: you mean you're late? You're absolutely banged on time. I said, well,
Speaker 2: that's impossible anyway, they said, no, I have a look.
Speaker 2: So I looked at the watches, looked at the truth.
Speaker 2: It was ten o'clock. It was exactly the time that
Speaker 2: I left. I drove the journey and I know for
Speaker 2: a fact what time I left it was.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the clocks room back or so it was.
Speaker 2: I back in the middle of the night. Then back
Speaker 2: then in the eighties, everything had to be changed manually. Anyway,
Speaker 2: so I know that I left definitely I left late.
Speaker 2: I left at least an hour late, at ten o'clock.
Speaker 2: But I arrived at the same time I left.
Speaker 1: Well, how do you explain that you must have you
Speaker 1: must have traveled at the speed of light, like you see.
Speaker 2: Why I did the journey. That's the funny part of it.
Speaker 2: I actually experienced the journey. I did it, but then
Speaker 2: I arrived and no time had elapsed.
Speaker 1: That's really crazy.
Speaker 2: But that's not the only I mean, if you get
Speaker 2: this bit, if you get this book Weird Time, it's
Speaker 2: full of other people's very similar stories to that time. Yeah, weird.
Speaker 2: It's worth looking into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've heard I've heard of a few
Speaker 1: stories where from renders from forest as you know where
Speaker 1: I used to. There's been a few strange experiences there
Speaker 1: according with time. I know Brenda about love you heard
Speaker 1: of her. They had a two hour missing time once
Speaker 1: and she actually and she was actually walking in the walls,
Speaker 1: which she knew very well. She didn't recognize any of it,
Speaker 1: and they were wandering around for about two hours. Other
Speaker 1: people were looking for them. And yes, so we are stories.
Speaker 1: And she knows that woods like the back of her hand,
Speaker 1: you know, and apparently some strange trees that she didn't
Speaker 1: recoglarize as well.
Speaker 2: I'm not a verse to time behaving in strange ways,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean the whole of nature, the entire
Speaker 2: of nature, the exception defines the rule. So although most
Speaker 2: of it's the same all the time, there's always something
Speaker 2: that comes along that doesn't fit. So, you know, into
Speaker 2: the realms of paranormal. You know, how much of paranormal
Speaker 2: is actually nature, but it's SuperNature. You know. That's kind
Speaker 2: of where things seem to be going now in the
Speaker 2: twenty first century. It's almost like, you know, we're beginning
Speaker 2: to accept more and more. I think I said this
Speaker 2: to somebody not long back in another interview. I said,
Speaker 2: because of the Internet, we're now discovering that there's a
Speaker 2: huge and absolutely vast number of people that have had
Speaker 2: so many experiences. Absolutely the paranormal now is you can't
Speaker 2: really call it parat.
Speaker 1: I've spoken to enough of one this show. If listened
Speaker 1: to these shows, I've had quite a few different experiences,
Speaker 1: and quite a lot that metch up as well, where
Speaker 1: people people that don't even know each other and they've
Speaker 1: had similar types of experiences.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like we're defining the new normal. You know,
Speaker 2: somehow out there there's this dimension that you know, if
Speaker 2: only one in ten person happened to say, oh I
Speaker 2: saw a ghost, did get laughed. Now, but now it's
Speaker 2: like you know one in two or one in three
Speaker 2: have seen something crypto or something alien, or you know,
Speaker 2: something ghostly or you know, and all these categories add up.
Speaker 2: They add up to a huge number of people on
Speaker 2: that point.
Speaker 1: I'll just mention this. On Saturday night, my wife got
Speaker 1: up to use the bathrop as you do, and she said,
Speaker 1: I was asleep. She didn't wake me up, but she
Speaker 1: said it was about three thirty five in the morning.
Speaker 1: And I said when she said about this, because she
Speaker 1: looked out she saw an orange light with two with
Speaker 1: three a triangle around it right, lasted like three seconds top.
Speaker 2: It was three thirty three, was it?
Speaker 1: Because that's what I said to her. I said, I said,
Speaker 1: what time was it? It was about three thirty five?
Speaker 1: But she said, well, because I looked at the alarm
Speaker 1: clock and I said three thirty. You said it was
Speaker 1: three thirty five. She said yeah, And she said that
Speaker 1: I'll go and check the time down And when she
Speaker 1: checked the other time on the other clock, it was
Speaker 1: actually two minutes fast. Wow, So it was three thirty three.
Speaker 1: So I've actually made a report out for that. So
Speaker 1: because she she said, only only showingly saw it for
Speaker 1: a few seconds, I said, well, say thirty three. It's
Speaker 1: usually quite an important time, and it's quite a usual
Speaker 1: time to see something like that that you're meant to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's almost like it flutters at that time,
Speaker 2: nature flutters. I mean, I used to do a lot
Speaker 2: of work, you know, dejaying in bands and things like that,
Speaker 2: coming back in the early hours, around about half past three,
Speaker 2: that's when things started to get it, you know, scary flexible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's why I said to I said, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I said, saying thirty five was it? And she says, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was three thirty four because I looked
Speaker 1: at the clock and then she said, I'll go check
Speaker 1: it with the other clock. And then she when she
Speaker 1: checked it, it was actually three two fast o clock.
Speaker 2: So that's close enough.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it was very strange, but I didn't want I said,
Speaker 1: you should have worked me up. She said, what was gone?
Speaker 1: It was only lasting about three seconds and it just
Speaker 1: sort of it went out of the sky.
Speaker 2: And if she did have had a camera available, she
Speaker 2: either wouldn't have seen it or it wouldn't have been
Speaker 2: out of focus.
Speaker 1: I said to her, you could have she said, they did.
Speaker 1: The last song en time I got was gone, you
Speaker 1: know so, but she said, But I said to him
Speaker 1: in the morning, I said, well, I want you to
Speaker 1: write it all down what you actually saw, so while
Speaker 1: it's still freshening your mind, and I've got it. I
Speaker 1: actually put it on Facebook and I put it in
Speaker 1: our sort of agency investigation.
Speaker 2: Everybody did that we have a decent idea of what
Speaker 2: just in.
Speaker 1: Case something comes up. Something you never know somebody else.
Speaker 1: But I've seen a three past three in the morning.
Speaker 2: But you know I was. I mean in the Europe's
Speaker 2: Froswell book that I wrote, I put in my UFO
Speaker 2: encounter where I saw this thing flying up the Mersey Valley.
Speaker 2: Eleven years after that, in Jenny Randall's book Mysteries of
Speaker 2: the Mersey Valley, somebody had seen the same thing over
Speaker 2: on the world and then the same thing over in
Speaker 2: Liverpool that it was coming this way. So you had
Speaker 2: two independent witnesses to the start of this thing, me
Speaker 2: seeing it coming through and finishing here. And yet it
Speaker 2: took eleven years to find those two accounts and marry
Speaker 2: them up. That was at about two o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 2: quarter past two in the morning. It's not entirely out
Speaker 2: of the question, these things do match up?
Speaker 1: You know, we've gone out of the realms of archaelogy
Speaker 1: miles out.
Speaker 2: I did you this would happen?
Speaker 1: It was over the top of that house over there, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: Oh, what's you've got you there's some sort of a
Speaker 1: ghost and fandoms that leaked to a lot of these
Speaker 1: archaoog you've called sights.
Speaker 2: So well, when I mentioned that one in Derbyshire, that
Speaker 2: was interesting because when when we were doing the dig there,
Speaker 2: that's the only tongue that any of my archaeology team
Speaker 2: were actually buzzed by a UFO. So can you imagine
Speaker 2: we're all getting well, you're supernatural, it's paranormal. I actually
Speaker 2: missed it, but only just because I was sat in
Speaker 2: the site of this and one of the ladies came
Speaker 2: running in. So I'm writing up a report and it's
Speaker 2: all gone dark and they're all supposed to be a
Speaker 2: sleeping in sleeping bags and that. This lady came running
Speaker 2: in and went, oh, you're not gonna believe this. We're
Speaker 2: all sat around the fireplace binding our own business. She
Speaker 2: said this, this great, big silver thing came right over
Speaker 2: the top of us and flew off. She said it
Speaker 2: was like a big flying sort of thing, and there
Speaker 2: was there was about half a dozen of them that
Speaker 2: saw this thing come over the top and it did
Speaker 2: it buzz the site. So that makes you wonder if
Speaker 2: there's some connection, like you with power paranoria.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's dimensional stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, history, you know, the stuff that's gone on there,
Speaker 2: and then this thing comes over the top. It's essentially
Speaker 2: I think, to have a look at what we were doing,
Speaker 2: because we have all holes open and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: and where the fire going and lights and you know,
Speaker 2: clearly it was interested in what we were up to
Speaker 2: know it was still there. So yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: it's incredible because you've got your archaeology and ghosts, you've
Speaker 2: got your archaeology and UFOs, You've got your archaeology and
Speaker 2: all kinds of crypto stuff going on out there, you know,
Speaker 2: and then if you wanted to go Hollywood, you've got
Speaker 2: loads of archaeology and horror films as well, mummies and
Speaker 2: Zoom Raider and you know, you name it, all kinds
Speaker 2: of stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, when we do the next show, we'll be talking
Speaker 1: about there's no doubt the sphinx and the mummies and
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff like that. Those craft that you
Speaker 1: could be seeing. I mean I always think they did.
Speaker 1: They might. They don't have to be extraterrestrial, do they.
Speaker 1: They could be in the dimensional crash of but some
Speaker 1: civilization is using from another dimension.
Speaker 2: I think it's looking like that. Or possibly, to touch
Speaker 2: on a subject we've just talked about, maybe time travel.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe they're coming, maybe they're alls, but they're
Speaker 2: coming from either the past or the future. Me being me,
Speaker 2: I tend to think that they're coming from the distant past,
Speaker 2: because then they can't affect their own future. Does that
Speaker 2: make sense? Yeah, I think there is, but from you know,
Speaker 2: pre flood, pre comet impact, pre whatever. So we have
Speaker 2: really way way back, way way back, yeah, way.
Speaker 1: Back before biblical terms basically.
Speaker 2: Basically yeah, yeah, you're talking well, I mean people that
Speaker 2: talk about the animals.
Speaker 1: That's quite Yeah, that's a concept I've never actually thought of. Actually,
Speaker 1: it's well, they.
Speaker 2: Can't come from the future because if they come back
Speaker 2: in time, they're ruining their own future, They're changing their
Speaker 2: own timeline. They could effectively do it to such an
Speaker 2: extent that they destroy themselves.
Speaker 1: And you know, so the amazing thing is they've gone
Speaker 1: way back in the past. But they're all right, but
Speaker 1: they're already at their future. If you see what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: they're futuristic within their own royal.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think they're trying to change us. I
Speaker 2: don't think they're trying to modify something that they see coming.
Speaker 2: I think they're actually coming to see where the world
Speaker 2: has ended up. You know, they're at the start of
Speaker 2: the world and they're coming to see what's happening now,
Speaker 2: which would then explain why you know they're pinching badges
Speaker 2: and squirlls and sheep and people.
Speaker 1: And quite fascinating.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think they're coming to have a look and
Speaker 2: seeing where we've ended up and how the world's functioning now,
Speaker 2: and then whether they'll do anything about that or not.
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's maybe that's the next step.
Speaker 1: You know, Well, that's something else that's going to I'll
Speaker 1: be crazy and there, Mark, thank you for that, because
Speaker 1: I'll be thinking about that now. Is it from a
Speaker 1: very very very very distant past, before even outside, before
Speaker 1: where our planet even got going.
Speaker 2: Well, it's super technology, you know, all sorts of stuff
Speaker 2: back then, all the technology we keep rediscovering because of
Speaker 2: theologist again staying on topic, the number of times we
Speaker 2: find something, you know, like the bang Dad battery or
Speaker 2: the Sakara.
Speaker 1: There's that clockwork thing Anti Cathera with the.
Speaker 2: That one. Then there's the mathematics. You know, how did
Speaker 2: you know where to position things? And that's even in
Speaker 2: this country with Stonehenge and things alignments, you know, and
Speaker 2: all that. All the time you keep falling over what
Speaker 2: we call super technology without having the foggiest idea where
Speaker 2: it's come from and how these people got hold of it. Well,
Speaker 2: I think we tend to rediscover, you know, we find
Speaker 2: things again. You know, the Romans in particular, they sponged
Speaker 2: up everything from the ancient world, you know, to become
Speaker 2: the Roman Empire, and they've got some pretty impressive technology,
Speaker 2: you know, flush toilets and trains. You know, you look
Speaker 2: at Pompeii Herculaneum and all that which was frozen in time.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff going on then that is
Speaker 2: very very similar to what's going on now, you know,
Speaker 2: very very little difference. So I wonder if that rediscovery,
Speaker 2: maybe that is us finding diluted versions of what was
Speaker 2: standard practiced in the distant past, you know. And again
Speaker 2: the people that look at huge archaeological sites like Barbeck,
Speaker 2: where you've got forty fifty sixty ton blocks halfway up
Speaker 2: a wall. You know, they get them up there, you know,
Speaker 2: but clearly they knew things we didn't know. Stonehenge is
Speaker 2: a case in point. You know, how how on Earth
Speaker 2: did they shift all those stones? You know, that's been
Speaker 2: a debate that's been going on for hundreds of years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't care. I mean, I know there's
Speaker 1: archaeologists out there who saying that they moved on by ropes,
Speaker 1: and I still can't believe it. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: an expert, of course, but I find it very very
Speaker 1: hard to accept that they're moving these great, big things
Speaker 1: that weigh hundreds of tons. I'm not sor stone ins.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about things in Egypt and that we're probably
Speaker 1: going to deeper next time. I just don't see it.
Speaker 1: They could have done it withes and pulleys and things.
Speaker 2: There's some mathematics that says that it's possible, and there
Speaker 2: are guys that have experimented with enormous concrete blocks and
Speaker 2: they've they've had a go, and you can do it.
Speaker 2: But the thing that's really fooling. Everybody is having the
Speaker 2: knowledge of how to do it, as the mathematics and
Speaker 2: the balancing technology in the art.
Speaker 1: And the cut of these they slightly sold a piece
Speaker 1: of paper between them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. That kind of thing is that's almost
Speaker 2: harder to accept than actually moving the blocks. But I've
Speaker 2: got a great story about the bluestones because back in
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties from the Procelly Mountains, some archaeologists got
Speaker 2: one of the bluestones that got one, fished it out
Speaker 2: of the Procelly Mountains, took it down to where they
Speaker 2: thought it would have been loaded onto a raft, and
Speaker 2: then they sailed it round what is effective the pig's
Speaker 2: nose on whales. They sailed it round into the Bristol
Speaker 2: Channel with a view to sailing this stone to see
Speaker 2: how far they could get it. And when they got
Speaker 2: round that into the mouth of the Bristol Channel, the
Speaker 2: whole thing sank. So back then in those days, what
Speaker 2: you had to do was you had to tidy up
Speaker 2: your mess. So they got divers in to go and
Speaker 2: get the remains of the raft and anything else they
Speaker 2: could rescue. They sent the divers down and they found
Speaker 2: the bluestone that had sunk surrounded by other bluestones Sunky prehistory,
Speaker 2: so exactly the same thing had happened in prehistory when
Speaker 2: they were trying to get the bluestones round there up
Speaker 2: the Bristol Channel and you know, up to Stonehenge they
Speaker 2: just found the rest of the ones that had sunk.
Speaker 2: You know, they had the same problems. So they've got
Speaker 2: a pretty good idea how the bluestones got round there.
Speaker 2: They've known that since the nineteen nineties. The real problems
Speaker 2: are the giant big you know, that's a different matter.
Speaker 2: You know, how do you carve a curved trilithon lint,
Speaker 2: put the two notches in it for the nobles on
Speaker 2: top of the big and then poke it up, you know,
Speaker 2: stick it in place. And then once you've got that
Speaker 2: ring in place, what the hell is it for go
Speaker 2: to all that trouble?
Speaker 1: You know, and there's so many and is it going
Speaker 1: to break off when you're trying to live for fee?
Speaker 2: And what happens if it goes wrong?
Speaker 1: And also, I mean when they're cutting out these big
Speaker 1: slabs into you can cut downwards? How do you cut under.
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't realize there's quite a lot
Speaker 2: of that stone below ground to keep it up right,
Speaker 2: you build a stone circle now, so I said, the
Speaker 2: local council decided they're going to build one as a folly.
Speaker 2: It's two thirds below ground to one third above. So
Speaker 2: those stones are a hell of a lot bigger than
Speaker 2: they appear to be. There's a lot of stone going
Speaker 2: below the ground to keep them where they are.
Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff. I mean, like you say that Stonehenge has
Speaker 1: also got a big link with UFOs as well. There's
Speaker 1: quite a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has. Yeah, I mean, I think as far
Speaker 2: as as far as archaeology and paranormals concern, you can't
Speaker 2: really separate them, you know, because when you start getting
Speaker 2: into lay lines and you've got your astrological positions and
Speaker 2: the earth energies and the things that those sites attracked,
Speaker 2: because obviously they do UFOs, They attract spirits, they attract
Speaker 2: everything which is mediums, time slips. You know, all the
Speaker 2: years I've done archaeology, I can understand why some archaeologists
Speaker 2: don't want to go there, because not only is it
Speaker 2: going to be a threat to their career and popularity,
Speaker 2: and also the fact that they might get chucked out
Speaker 2: of whatever university is paying them. I mean, aside from
Speaker 2: all of that, there are so many related avenues of investigation.
Speaker 2: There's so much more to it if you start going
Speaker 2: down that as well. Most people don't have the capacity
Speaker 2: to deal with all of that information. You know, there's
Speaker 2: so much of it. You know, there's just so much
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: Something that's just coss me more though, or just in testing.
Speaker 1: So when you do these digs with the university as well,
Speaker 1: do you actually get paid for.
Speaker 2: It or gosh, well, that's how long is a piece
Speaker 2: of string. I've done a lot of paid work and
Speaker 2: what I can say is it pays extremely badly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't mess it because you're doing it as
Speaker 1: a hobby anyway, aren't you.
Speaker 2: Well yes, and no I did. I used to do
Speaker 2: it professionally. I had my own unit for twelve years,
Speaker 2: but we took a decision. From the commercial point of view,
Speaker 2: if you do commercial archaeology, whoever's paying the bill owns
Speaker 2: the lot, they own the site, they own the fines,
Speaker 2: they own the report, they own the rest. You know,
Speaker 2: they own everything. So you can't make all of that
Speaker 2: information public, and very often it'll sit either in a
Speaker 2: shelf or a box or whatever, and it can sit
Speaker 2: there for years, forty fifty, sixty, seventy eighty years. You know,
Speaker 2: they're still pulling stuff up now to do with something
Speaker 2: who and all this kind of thing. You know, there's
Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff coming up that's been boxed. So
Speaker 2: what we did we actually consciously took the decision to
Speaker 2: act as a public archaeological unit. We took volunteers. We
Speaker 2: did sites that weren't perhaps ever going to get done,
Speaker 2: you know, so we were actually in the employee of
Speaker 2: the landowners. So whoever owned the site brought us in.
Speaker 2: Usually there was a good reason for doing it. I
Speaker 2: mean we twelve years, we hit at least twelve major sites,
Speaker 2: because we did a major site every year, never missed
Speaker 2: the target, always found what we were asked to find,
Speaker 2: you know, never used geophysics, which is the thing always
Speaker 2: goes wrong on time team. You know, a series of
Speaker 2: small walls and a few pits. You know, we always
Speaker 2: did better than that. You know, we found an Anglo
Speaker 2: Saxon castle, we found a medieval moated manor house, we
Speaker 2: found the templar stuff in the prehistoric landscape. You know,
Speaker 2: we've had Roman, we've had Anglo Saxon. We had so much,
Speaker 2: so much stuff. We did a sacred well and a
Speaker 2: lot of it paid homage in many ways to the paranormal,
Speaker 2: you know, is it's a sacred site or a holy
Speaker 2: site or a site that they weren't doing privately and
Speaker 2: us doing a certain way. You know, with investigated haunted houses.
Speaker 2: We've gone into tunnels, secret tunnels, you know, and all
Speaker 2: sorts of things. So it kind of it closed the
Speaker 2: financial door, but it, boy, did it open the spiritual one,
Speaker 2: you know, because we weren't being told what we could
Speaker 2: and couldn't do. So you know, whatever came we went
Speaker 2: off and did.
Speaker 1: Did you ever get to keep any little knick knicks.
Speaker 2: I've got to keep a few things. Yeah, I've got
Speaker 2: the oldest man made object in Cheshire in a box
Speaker 2: in the other room there. That's a hosting and chipping
Speaker 2: flint four under an eighty thousand BC. It's interglacial. It's
Speaker 2: it's Home directors that made that. But I'm quite famous
Speaker 2: for not finding anything valuable. I've been there when valuable
Speaker 2: things have been found, Don't get me wrong, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean one guy had a templar knights templar ring,
Speaker 2: a gold ring off one of our sides, and that
Speaker 2: went well, that went to the coroner and I think
Speaker 2: it's sold for eighty four thousand. It went for. It's
Speaker 2: only a tiny ring, but and a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: comes to me. The metal detectorists trust me for identification
Speaker 2: and things like that. So a lot of the big
Speaker 2: hordes that you see, and quite a lot of gold
Speaker 2: stuff that's come up here. I've been like holding it
Speaker 2: the next day after it's come out of the ground.
Speaker 2: So I'm involved sort of behind the scenes a lot.
Speaker 2: I've got a reputation for nine times out of ten,
Speaker 2: I'll get it right whatever it is I'm looking at.
Speaker 2: I'm quite good at identification. But me personally, no, I've
Speaker 2: not actually dug anything, you know, like say skeletons, nights, templarss,
Speaker 2: you know all that sort of stuff. Found loads of
Speaker 2: stuff like that, but never found any gold or silver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well the treasure is you got it in your memory,
Speaker 1: aren't you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I've got to say the chase is better than
Speaker 2: the catch. You know, once you find something and you
Speaker 2: know what it is and you know what the story is,
Speaker 2: you move on to the next thing, you know, start again,
Speaker 2: do another one, Do another one doing another it's very addictive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're always fascinating Mark. It was always great to
Speaker 1: talk to you. So we'll do another one and it'll
Speaker 1: be around about I think we'll recording about September time
Speaker 1: for the all Worldwide Netwill will you throw out on
Speaker 1: some of the archaeological sites.
Speaker 2: Well, this is the first time I've done any archaeology.
Speaker 2: This is good. I'm enjoying this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've learned some things today. Actually, it's
Speaker 1: been very interesting talking to you again. Once again, thank
Speaker 1: you for the come and talk to me. Mark. It's
Speaker 1: always a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if anyone wants to any more go to Amazon
Speaker 2: buying books.
Speaker 1: Yes, I say you've got several books. How many books
Speaker 1: you've got Amazon altogether?
Speaker 2: Well, in total is nine. And they're all connected in
Speaker 2: one way or another to some form of archaeology. Even
Speaker 2: Europe's oswell, the UFO crash that started out as an
Speaker 2: archaeological investigation. So there are all sort of histories, mysteries
Speaker 2: and discoveries.
Speaker 1: That say you're you're King Arthur. One is fantastic, very much.
Speaker 1: It goes all over Britain, basically, don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of makes sense out of it, you know.
Speaker 1: It is absolutely But yeah, if anyone out there, you
Speaker 1: go and have a look on Amazon, you'll find Mark Body.
Speaker 1: That's the old w l WI and there's you'll probably
Speaker 1: find several books on there that we will worth getting on.
Speaker 2: They can do the same on YouTube. There's a big
Speaker 2: back cattle on there. And yeah, Facebook, I.
Speaker 1: Said, I'll put some stuff on the Paranormal Dimensions page again,
Speaker 1: and so we wait till the next time in Mark
Speaker 1: and we'll do it all again. All right, you'll find
Speaker 1: more regulous.
Speaker 2: Very much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Speaker 1: That's got Mark. Take care of yourself and next time.
Speaker 1: All right, there we are. That was Monkeley. What's again?
Speaker 1: And Mike will be back later on in the year
Speaker 1: to do part two. As we mentioned now before we
Speaker 1: close the show will play the Effort again, which is
Speaker 1: advertising a SkyWatch which is on the Essex Suffolk border
Speaker 1: which is near Cultures to actually for next Saturday. There
Speaker 1: are some tickets left, but you've got to get in
Speaker 1: quick if you want, if you're interested in them. So
Speaker 1: here it is again.
Speaker 3: We've all heard of close encounters of the third kind,
Speaker 3: but are you aware there is a fifth close encounters
Speaker 3: of The Fifth Kind or CU five, is centered around
Speaker 3: human initiated cosmic contact with our et frames, designed and
Speaker 3: promoted by doctor Stephen Greed since the nineties. Come and
Speaker 3: try it for yourself and an event being held on
Speaker 3: Saturday the third of August on the board for Essex
Speaker 3: and Suffolk. To book your place, visit www sep Hyphenagency
Speaker 3: dot com s e p I Hyphenagency dot com. Today
Speaker 3: spaces are limited.
Speaker 1: There you go. There's the last time you'll hear that.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I shall be there okay. As always,
Speaker 1: if you'd like to get in touch with me, my
Speaker 1: email address is David Young two QN at your hoo
Speaker 1: dot co dot UK. That's David Young two q in
Speaker 1: at your hoo dot co dot UK.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The next show, which goes out on Monday, the fifth
Speaker 1: of August, that will be with Sarah to Sario.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: You may remember if you're a regular listener that named Dissario. Well,
Speaker 1: I head to Sarah's husband a couple of months ago, Nando,
Speaker 1: so I thought we were only fair to get Sarah.
Speaker 1: So that would be Monday, fifth of August. That's Sarah
Speaker 1: de Sarrio. So I hope you enjoyed me for that one,
Speaker 1: and after that show you'll have to wait two weeks
Speaker 1: for the next one. So we'll leave you there, and
Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great summer. There's a bit
Speaker 1: touch a go in the UK, but we we get
Speaker 1: some good days and we get some bad days. Anyway,
Speaker 1: She'll speak to you on Monday, the fifth of August,
Speaker 1: so take care everyone, and I'll report back on the
Speaker 1: sky watch. Bye bye everyone, Bye bye.
Speaker 2: I took it for granted, you tuggled for granted.
Speaker 1: In science, nothing is taken for granted.
Speaker 2: But what are we going to do, my dear fellow.
Speaker 2: Is your problem?
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, I can not too strongly stressed the
Speaker 1: necessity for condos.
Speaker 2: Do not allow yourselves to be emotionally disturbed by those messages.
Speaker 2: We have lead much, but we have sacrificed a lot
Speaker 2: too much.
Speaker 1: Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays on the Paranormal UK
Speaker 1: Radio Network.