Speaker 1: This is the Full Funnel bt B Marketing podcast, brought
Speaker 1: to you by Full Funnel Doto.
Speaker 2: Let's start. Hey everyone, and sorry for the delay. I
Speaker 2: just have heard from the undre that she has some
Speaker 2: technical issues when trying to join the live podcast, so
Speaker 2: I just decided to not to leave you alone and
Speaker 2: not understanding what's happening. So while we're waiting for help,
Speaker 2: I just wanted to share with you guys that in
Speaker 2: two weeks we're going to host our sevens annual Full
Speaker 2: Funnel Summit.
Speaker 3: And I dropped the link in the chat.
Speaker 2: Were already have more than one thousand sign ups.
Speaker 3: All across the globe.
Speaker 2: There were a lot of questions about the agenda and yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry if the sign up process wasn't the
Speaker 2: most convenient one and we needed to maybe add the
Speaker 2: agenda to themand website. So anyhow, I wanted to describe
Speaker 2: you how we typically host the signed so you can plant.
Speaker 2: We have three days and we have three signed tracks
Speaker 2: and every day we'll have five live keynotes, so you
Speaker 2: guys welcome to join. All sessions will be live. There
Speaker 2: are no pre recorded sessions, no product pitches, etc. So
Speaker 2: you can join us anytime and everybody who has signed up,
Speaker 2: you'll get access to all the recordings so you can
Speaker 2: talk to speakers, you can ask all the questions live,
Speaker 2: and our entire goal is to drive the knowledge from
Speaker 2: people who are in the trenches to our community. Just
Speaker 2: avoid any AI slob and any conversations about the nonsense
Speaker 2: that is happening right now everywhere.
Speaker 3: So that's the goal.
Speaker 2: And I see the Andre gent as the Andra click
Speaker 2: go and stage and you can join the life should
Speaker 2: be a green bottom.
Speaker 3: Hello all, good to see you.
Speaker 1: Good, I see you. I'm sorry I got stuck on
Speaker 1: an elevator. Quite an experience that happens.
Speaker 2: But the good thing is that you have joined us,
Speaker 2: and that's the.
Speaker 3: Most important one. So cool.
Speaker 2: Today we have, as we have already announced, today we
Speaker 2: have the Undra Escabar, founder and CEO at Content Agency DISTINCTIL,
Speaker 2: and as promised, we're going to dive into the bit
Speaker 2: to B content fly wheels as the new approach to
Speaker 2: the content stread right the way how we need to
Speaker 2: think about the content today, considering all the changes in
Speaker 2: social algorithm, considering the changes in the organic search right,
Speaker 2: and the way how the search platforms are behaving.
Speaker 3: So that's the goal.
Speaker 2: As always, you guys are very welcome to ask any
Speaker 2: questions and we are going to cover them live and
Speaker 2: let us know. Please where you all join us from.
Speaker 2: Let us know in the chat and where you are
Speaker 2: right now there.
Speaker 1: I am in Mexico City, actually so super super nice here,
Speaker 1: nice weather as you can see.
Speaker 2: Nice press from northwest India and I got to see you.
Speaker 2: And there's such a pity designate coincidence with European AB
Speaker 2: and Forum PI.
Speaker 3: It is what it is.
Speaker 2: We can't do anything about this. Fronts are from friends.
Speaker 2: My neighbor got to see you, Kelly from Florida. I
Speaker 2: got to see you nice again. We have our international audience.
Speaker 2: So cool to see you guys again. Anytime you want
Speaker 2: to ask the question, just feel free to drop it
Speaker 2: in the chat and we'll make the sure. We'll make
Speaker 2: sure we'll cover it well. I would love to kick
Speaker 2: it off. I just read some stats from your partner
Speaker 2: in crime, Sarah, when she was promoting the sim Rush
Speaker 2: report about the organic search and basically, according to sim Rush,
Speaker 2: fifty seven percent of marketers report decline in organic search
Speaker 2: traffic right and only twenty six percent see any revenue
Speaker 2: impact at the same time. I was a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks ago, I was writing a newsletter about the format
Speaker 2: the content formats that are working right now in B
Speaker 2: to B and I just was going through the analysis
Speaker 2: of what's happening with LinkedIn. Right, everybody is complaining about
Speaker 2: the reach going down, which is absolutely true and by fact,
Speaker 2: I I have seen one research whether researchers claimed that
Speaker 2: in Q three, twenty twenty five, organic creach hit its
Speaker 2: lowest level, just going sixty five percent. I compare it
Speaker 2: like a few days ago. I just compared my stats.
Speaker 2: It's fifty two percent down compared to the same period.
Speaker 2: The yeah go and yeah. Also another stats about the
Speaker 2: company's pages. Right, the company's pages also lost visibility in
Speaker 2: the news feed, kind of making maybe two percent of
Speaker 2: the news feed. But what that's really interesting, Uh, when
Speaker 2: we were chatting with you, and obviously looking at some
Speaker 2: of your LinkedIn posts, you have clients that, despite of
Speaker 2: all of this, they are crushing with linked In. They
Speaker 2: have good reach, they have good engagement, they have good
Speaker 2: open rates with the newsletters. Right, And obviously that requires
Speaker 2: that you need to change your approach. I know that
Speaker 2: you speak a lot about the content. Let grows right,
Speaker 2: But this means that you need to go from static
Speaker 2: content calendars to the content fly wheels right where every
Speaker 2: piece of content is built on the previous one. So
Speaker 2: you have the compound interest and now go into the
Speaker 2: practical part.
Speaker 3: That's a long intro.
Speaker 2: Can you explain how that framework works and why it
Speaker 2: works and maybe if you want, you can walk us
Speaker 2: through Distinctive or any of the clients.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, first of all, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me, and hello to everyone in the chat. Great
Speaker 1: to see people from all over the place. I lived
Speaker 1: in France for a year, I've been to Croagia to
Speaker 1: speak at conferences, lived in Spain for like three months,
Speaker 1: so really cool to see some some places that I've
Speaker 1: been either living or been there before. Second of all, yes,
Speaker 1: so I think for a little bit of context for everyone,
Speaker 1: we kind of need to before we find strategies and
Speaker 1: solutions to how to solve the reach throttling, how to
Speaker 1: solve my LinkedIn isn't working as it was before. To
Speaker 1: solve how do I actually make money out of content?
Speaker 1: We need to understand why did it change? Like why
Speaker 1: is it that we're living through what we're living through
Speaker 1: as marketers as founders, as head of growths, where we
Speaker 1: know content is important and we need to use it
Speaker 1: to either grow our personal brands or grow our companies.
Speaker 1: But why was it that there's such a huge shift
Speaker 1: a year or two years from now? And it's because
Speaker 1: the game changed? What does that mean? Most content strategies
Speaker 1: we built a few years ago ago were built for
Speaker 1: a world that no longer exists. Why because a little
Speaker 1: friend called katchob T came along. So what happened with
Speaker 1: chatchubu te They not only is it now not only
Speaker 1: just chatchbut but now we have Mistroll, Now we have Claude,
Speaker 1: Now we have Lama Meta, Gemini, Deep Seek. Like there
Speaker 1: are so many tools out there now that allow two things.
Speaker 1: One for people to access information a lot easier. So
Speaker 1: why am I going to scroll on LinkedIn read a
Speaker 1: long post just to get a how to information guide?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Like? When I could just ask my little assistant chatchoob
Speaker 1: T and it'll give me an answer right away and
Speaker 1: it'll be a pretty decent answer. Second is because now
Speaker 1: the people that were creating content before that, they had
Speaker 1: to actually write and take a long time. Now anyone
Speaker 1: can write content, So there is so much spam out there,
Speaker 1: so for you to be able to come in front
Speaker 1: of everybody, you have to try to get out of
Speaker 1: all of that noise. So because the game changed, not
Speaker 1: only do we have organic reach is throttled. AI rewrote
Speaker 1: the rules, but now we also have search everywhere. So
Speaker 1: before it was pretty easy, you know, Okay, I go
Speaker 1: to Google and I search for something. I scroll on
Speaker 1: LinkedIn to get some sort of like inspiration from the
Speaker 1: people I like. Now it's like I can go on
Speaker 1: to any of these tools. I can go onto YouTube,
Speaker 1: I can go into Reddit, I can go So discovery
Speaker 1: is just fragmented across ten different services. So for this reason,
Speaker 1: I've been working with clients because I have a content
Speaker 1: marketing agency myself. If anyone here is panicking over organic
Speaker 1: reach or anything like that, imagine how I was panicking
Speaker 1: a few months ago. I literally have an agency that
Speaker 1: does this, and I was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: was getting like what Andrey said, I was getting one
Speaker 1: hundred k impressions on post fifty k twenty k, and
Speaker 1: now a post hits twenty k max, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I went viral, Like it's crazy the amount of numbers
Speaker 1: that changed, and One, it's hard for our ego because
Speaker 1: it's not easy to see big numbers and then have
Speaker 1: to accept the smaller ones. And two it's also scary
Speaker 1: because at least myself, I have a content marketing agency
Speaker 1: that does this for clients. I was like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: out of business. This is it. I'm going to go
Speaker 1: sell and panas in Colombia. By the way, I'm Colombian,
Speaker 1: so it's like, this is it? Like what am I
Speaker 1: going to do? And the solution we found and what
Speaker 1: Andrea was saying is we've getting We've been getting insane
Speaker 1: numbers with the new strategy we've built, and it's because
Speaker 1: we've built it around different strategies so to be more tactical.
Speaker 1: The first one is what I call content flywheels. So
Speaker 1: instead of just let's say, putting all our eggs on LinkedIn,
Speaker 1: we make sure to actually build something that works for
Speaker 1: us and doesn't have us trying to post on one
Speaker 1: platform and another platform and nothing is really connected. So
Speaker 1: we make sure that every single of our clients has
Speaker 1: the rented media, so something where we can get big
Speaker 1: eyeballs let's say a YouTube, let's say a LinkedIn, and
Speaker 1: then an owned media anything that has to do with
Speaker 1: a newsletter, something that you can actually have the emails.
Speaker 1: So that would be my main, main, main, main, and
Speaker 1: most important strategy you have for yourself or for a company.
Speaker 1: You need to own your audience somewhere, because maybe reach
Speaker 1: dies even more, maybe reach goes up, maybe you get
Speaker 1: banned from a platform, maybe your company, you leave your company,
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you really need to be
Speaker 1: owner of something, and the best thing you can own
Speaker 1: is emails. So that's the first strategy we came in,
Speaker 1: and the amount of revenue we've been able to bring
Speaker 1: our clients has been insane through email. So we use
Speaker 1: LinkedIn as being able to get eyeballs and we push
Speaker 1: them to the newsletter. Then the second strategy, and that's
Speaker 1: why I also think like we've been able to get
Speaker 1: such insane numbers on LinkedIn for our clients is we
Speaker 1: stopped playing the old playbook. And the problem with us
Speaker 1: old influencers of LinkedIn the ogs is that it's really
Speaker 1: hard for us to adapt because we're used to what
Speaker 1: we were doing before and we just keep we just
Speaker 1: keep forcing the fact that we want what worked before
Speaker 1: to keep working and what we do with newer clients
Speaker 1: is we don't play with the old playbook. We've been
Speaker 1: doing newsjacking, brand jacking, so many different name jacking, different
Speaker 1: strategies around it, and they've been absolutely blowing up. So
Speaker 1: my two to answer the next question you have is like,
Speaker 1: how are we managing to get these numbers is we're
Speaker 1: just not playing the old playbook. We're playing a content
Speaker 1: flywheel playbook which feeds in different media and allows them
Speaker 1: to actually build revenue through different channels because again searches everywhere,
Speaker 1: people are all over the place. And then two, we
Speaker 1: stopped playing the old playbook and we've been playing new
Speaker 1: strategies that are working. And that's why even some smaller
Speaker 1: accounts are beating us the ogs because they don't have
Speaker 1: that old LinkedIn mindset and they're playing around with different
Speaker 1: type of strategy. Is So that would be my two
Speaker 1: answers for that.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: So if maybe you can just walk us through any example,
Speaker 2: just Ininctiva or any client, you don't need to name it,
Speaker 2: but just to give an idea how that looks like. Right,
Speaker 2: So let's say we have two parts here, right, we
Speaker 2: have own media, we have rented media. Makes perfect sense
Speaker 2: and honestly, the narrative, the right narrative about having own
Speaker 2: media has been here for years, but companies that was always,
Speaker 2: from my humble opinion, absolutely relevant argument newsletters, so that
Speaker 2: who is going to read the newsletters?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: But the truth is completely opposite. But that's another story.
Speaker 2: So we have this and then we have like you said,
Speaker 2: we still have the thought leadership done in a different format.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So what I'm wondering if you can just maybe walk
Speaker 2: us through an action of example, these are the posts
Speaker 2: that we're published, and then for example we combine this
Speaker 2: and kate a new sletter and well do YouTube? How
Speaker 2: that looks like and how the distribution looks like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I work with companies like SEM, Rush, Hay,
Speaker 1: reach Backlinko, some pretty big, let's say, like SaaS companies.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because you would think that the companies
Speaker 1: with the most budget would be the ones doing the
Speaker 1: most and usually it's never like that. You see, like
Speaker 1: the scrappy startups that they have a newsletter, they have
Speaker 1: a YouTube, they have a LinkedIn profile, they actually are
Speaker 1: building this flywheel. But then bigger companies they weren't really
Speaker 1: doing that. And what we found out, for example with
Speaker 1: with SEM Rush and Backlinko. They were great at blogs
Speaker 1: like they've always been, you know, like the SEO place
Speaker 1: to go. But with the the new LLM coming in,
Speaker 1: the new llm's coming in and deciding what the sites
Speaker 1: and making things a lot more complicated. They also saw,
Speaker 1: oh my god, we need to be on different channels.
Speaker 1: YouTube is a really good place. Newsletters LinkedIn, So we've
Speaker 1: been building all of their executives LinkedIn and to walk
Speaker 1: you guys through what a flywheel would look like. So
Speaker 1: for example, for our client backlink Code, what we do
Speaker 1: is they create a blog. So there has to be
Speaker 1: a source of subject matter expertise, because the problem with
Speaker 1: a lot of content flywheels or people trying to build
Speaker 1: you know, on different channels be everywhere is they're not
Speaker 1: even sourcing from a place that actually has genuine value
Speaker 1: and then they're just putting anything everywhere. So there has
Speaker 1: to be a source of subject matter expertise. Let's say
Speaker 1: you have someone you work at a company where you
Speaker 1: are not the subject matter expert, where you're the head
Speaker 1: of marketing of that company, and let's say you guys
Speaker 1: are selling something about like cybersecurity or something you don't
Speaker 1: really know. You need to find a way to put
Speaker 1: that subject matter expertise in one platform and in a
Speaker 1: long form one because if you managed to put that
Speaker 1: in one place, it's going to be a lot easier
Speaker 1: to do the repurposing on other different channels. And the
Speaker 1: problem is we try to create a content flywheel from
Speaker 1: one source that doesn't have enough subject matter expertise. In
Speaker 1: this case, for backline Co, their blog has a ton
Speaker 1: of subject matter expertise because they go and hire SEO
Speaker 1: experts to write their blog to they find someone that
Speaker 1: had a good strategy and they get them to write
Speaker 1: the blog. So the blogs are full of a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of interesting, valuable insights and their long
Speaker 1: form so they allow us to be able to extract
Speaker 1: and create from the other side. The problem when you
Speaker 1: try to create a content flywheel that sources from LinkedIn,
Speaker 1: it's too short form, it's too instant, it's too trend based.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna have a hard time because you're like,
Speaker 1: how am I gonna make this tiny little post into
Speaker 1: five different channels? Like Deandro said, it was so easy,
Speaker 1: and I can do one site multiple channels, each of
Speaker 1: them have a different job. But it's just it's just
Speaker 1: not possible. That's because you're starting from a place that
Speaker 1: isn't giving you enough information. So what we do with
Speaker 1: BACKLINKO is we know that and this source of information
Speaker 1: can be different. Maybe you guys aren't doing se blog
Speaker 1: and maybe it's like a webinar like this one. You
Speaker 1: guys can literally grab my transcript and create a blog
Speaker 1: out of it, a step by step process, then a
Speaker 1: LinkedIn post and a carousel, and there's so many things
Speaker 1: that can come out of there. But find that source
Speaker 1: where you're going to be able to extract the most
Speaker 1: knowledge that is long form. So what we do, for example,
Speaker 1: is we get the blog from the blog, we create
Speaker 1: a YouTube video. So the YouTube video is script everything animated,
Speaker 1: it goes there. The YouTube video is then posted on
Speaker 1: the head of Growth's LinkedIn page, which we've grown from
Speaker 1: zero to thirty five k now and we promote the
Speaker 1: YouTube channel so his people are coming back to the
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. And YouTube is an amazing format to actually
Speaker 1: build trust because people are spending so much time with you,
Speaker 1: they're seeing you. And in today's world, I am seeing
Speaker 1: a huge bet on B to B companies and bigger
Speaker 1: companies moving to YouTube because it's the only one that
Speaker 1: still hasn't been able to be attacked by AI. Avatars
Speaker 1: are coming, for sure, but it's like a place where
Speaker 1: you can actually you know, showcase, go longer form and
Speaker 1: if someone has spent twelve minutes, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes
Speaker 1: with you. I just started my YouTube channel. We've worked
Speaker 1: with a lot of clients on YouTube, but I just
Speaker 1: started my YouTube channel like three weeks ago and I've
Speaker 1: already signed like three clients out of it. You know
Speaker 1: how long it took me on LinkedIn to sign my
Speaker 1: first client. I had to post for like two years
Speaker 1: before I actually started something. So the amount of trust,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of work. It's one of the heaviest
Speaker 1: platforms to actually build on because it's like long form
Speaker 1: editing animation, but it's really good. Then from the YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: we then push to their newsletter, so their newsletter promotes,
Speaker 1: their LinkedIn post promotes their blog, promotes their YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: and then we create a carousel out of all of that.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, do you think can I share
Speaker 1: my screen here any change? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Of course?
Speaker 1: How does that work?
Speaker 2: On the left side, you should have this screen share
Speaker 2: the tiny icon with the display.
Speaker 1: Screen Okay, so how does that look in practice? This
Speaker 1: is basically what it looks like. Right, So blog goes
Speaker 1: into this was about if you guys see here, This
Speaker 1: was about generative generative engine optimization, how to win an
Speaker 1: AI search. Full on blog, very good subject matter expert
Speaker 1: here wrote it. Then we come in and we create
Speaker 1: a YouTube video out of it. It was the first YouTube,
Speaker 1: one of the first YouTube videos we posted on that
Speaker 1: channel three kviews, which is really good for a channel
Speaker 1: that literally has zero followers. Then that same blog turned
Speaker 1: into the newsletter. The newsletter is promoting people to go
Speaker 1: to the YouTube video. The newsletter is also promoting people
Speaker 1: to go to the LinkedIn post. The LinkedIn post is
Speaker 1: promoting people to go to the YouTube, and then the
Speaker 1: blog is created into a carousel that also performed extremely well.
Speaker 1: So as you can see, it just saves so much
Speaker 1: time for marketers, for founders who people wanted to build
Speaker 1: a brand, for people overwhelmed with the whole AI is everywhere,
Speaker 1: I need to be everywhere.
Speaker 3: Love it.
Speaker 2: That's actually an awesome example. While you was sharing, there
Speaker 2: were a couple of questions, So maybe I try to
Speaker 2: answer them, but maybe I can just give you a perspective. So,
Speaker 2: first of all, the question about the old playbook, what
Speaker 2: do you mean by this? I just said that, and
Speaker 2: I'm curious. OBJECTS said, yeah, yes, I said that the
Speaker 2: old playbook. When it comes to content, right, how I
Speaker 2: was thinking about it. Typically there is a content plan, right.
Speaker 2: The content plan is based on the keywords, right. Everybody
Speaker 2: wants to write for the keyword with the highest possible traffic,
Speaker 2: lower competition.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Then the content is created, the content is published maybe
Speaker 2: on a few companies pages on Facebook, linked and Twitter, etc.
Speaker 3: There is no distribution. We have cale in place, right,
Speaker 3: and that's it.
Speaker 2: And then in the best case scenario, the company works
Speaker 2: with agency, right, and then kind of pushes that agency
Speaker 2: to get the backlinks for that content. So likely the
Speaker 2: content will the rent and you'll get the organic traffic.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: But let me know if if you would at any
Speaker 2: and or maybe you define it differently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there is exactly what you said. I This
Speaker 1: is actually a presentation I did at a conference in Belgrade, Serbia.
Speaker 1: So it's pretty cool because we're talking about the same
Speaker 1: topic and a lot of things are easier maybe to
Speaker 1: see visually, But it's exactly what you said before. It
Speaker 1: was a calendar. It was you plan something, you publish it,
Speaker 1: It's done, it's over. Each piece is like standalone. It
Speaker 1: has no compounding effect and you're starting from zero every
Speaker 1: single time. With the new strategy in terms of actually
Speaker 1: like content flywheels, is that each piece is feeding the next.
Speaker 1: The content compounds over time and you only have to
Speaker 1: invest once in that insight to be able to get
Speaker 1: a system that runs for you. And the example I
Speaker 1: was giving you guys for example of why it's also
Speaker 1: important for AI. If you guys, you guys are founders,
Speaker 1: head of marketings, vps of girls, whatever your role is,
Speaker 1: or if you have a business yourself, you know that
Speaker 1: A big topic now is like how do I rank
Speaker 1: on AI? How do I get chatpt to recommend my
Speaker 1: tool for to be the best my profile, to be
Speaker 1: the one to follow my agency, to be the one
Speaker 1: to look well. The best way to do that is
Speaker 1: something that I call LLLM seating. So what you do
Speaker 1: is you're planting seats every everywhere to be able to
Speaker 1: get cited by AI. Because what does AI do? AI
Speaker 1: goes and finds from different to seo right like you
Speaker 1: would put a keyword, would go and you find it
Speaker 1: and that's it. So Google would just make sure that
Speaker 1: you had it was really easy to game it with
Speaker 1: stuffing a bunch of keywords so that you can get
Speaker 1: in the first place and that's it. So you would
Speaker 1: go to Google, you'd click on the first blue link,
Speaker 1: you would get your information. You would leave. Now because
Speaker 1: it's different and AI search works in a different way,
Speaker 1: like you can show here. Before the classical search was
Speaker 1: just check Google, visit, website, money, that's it. Now it's
Speaker 1: like AI search tool. Then they see all these other tools,
Speaker 1: then they recognize the brand, and then they finally decide
Speaker 1: to search for the brand directly. So it was predictable.
Speaker 1: It was one path and it was one winner. Now
Speaker 1: it's pulling from everywhere. So now you have to think
Speaker 1: in pro of what the future is going to look like,
Speaker 1: and the best way to do that is to do
Speaker 1: LLLM seating. So if you start seating in LinkedIn, in YouTube,
Speaker 1: in reddits, in medium, substack, newsletters, guest post pr this
Speaker 1: that we're doing right here. If this goes, for example,
Speaker 1: on a YouTube channel, everything I'm saying, the LMS can
Speaker 1: go and grab the transcript and now they have more
Speaker 1: information about Deander Escobar. So if I go into chattypt, Claude,
Speaker 1: whatever tool you use right now, and I say, who
Speaker 1: is Deander Escobar, how are they getting that information? They
Speaker 1: aren't just facing themselves on what I say I am
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. They're also going to look on every single
Speaker 1: other place and every single other platform to see if
Speaker 1: that narrative is coherent and cohesive to actually give the
Speaker 1: user a right answer. So what do you need to do?
Speaker 1: You need to start planting seeds everywhere so that when
Speaker 1: the AI goes and searches in one place, searches in
Speaker 1: the other, searches the other place, like oh okay, the coherent
Speaker 1: narrative between all of these places is this, and then
Speaker 1: it harvests the actual answer. So that's why it's so important.
Speaker 1: And it's also so important for you to go and
Speaker 1: check where maybe your narrative isn't correct. If maybe you
Speaker 1: got featured in a blog where now it's different to
Speaker 1: what you are currently doing at your company, go get
Speaker 1: that changed. When you are on a podcast or when
Speaker 1: you're on something, make sure to be very clear who
Speaker 1: you are and what you do. Like, Hi, I'm DeAndre Ascobar.
Speaker 1: I'm the founder of the Sindia, co founder of the Workflow,
Speaker 1: and we build content engines on LinkedIn, newsletter and YouTube.
Speaker 1: That that I just said, if it's grabbed by an
Speaker 1: LLM and the transcript, they have the same information, because
Speaker 1: I've said in every other podcast I've ever been. So
Speaker 1: that's why it's so important and that's how the old
Speaker 1: playbook completely just died because of it.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: So a couple of follow up questions questions from Nadezhda.
Speaker 2: She asked, is the content actual they've written by subject
Speaker 2: sme guys so it was easier to type in the chat.
Speaker 2: Sme means subject matter expert. So is the long form
Speaker 2: piece actually written by subject matter expert? So, I said,
Speaker 2: So it's ideal scenario, but typically it's not the case.
Speaker 2: So usually the content team interviews, records the interior, transcribes
Speaker 2: that intereo and creates the piece of con right, because
Speaker 2: like Nadesda said, it's it's a challenge to make sure
Speaker 2: that subject matter experts contribute and to make them right.
Speaker 2: It's literally impossible, right, So any tips on how to
Speaker 2: get subject matter experts on this introo is literally what
Speaker 2: means how to make sure that they care about that process.
Speaker 1: So that is the hardest thing in content when the
Speaker 1: person that is creating the content isn't the subject matter expert.
Speaker 1: And it's kind of it's kind of sad, let's say,
Speaker 1: quote unquote, if that's the right word, because honestly, and
Speaker 1: I'm a person that posts on LinkedIn myself, but I
Speaker 1: started growing on LinkedIn when I was twenty two years old.
Speaker 1: I lived in Colombia, had no experience. And it's not
Speaker 1: to put myself down, but I'm one hundred percent sure
Speaker 1: that at that time that I started blowing up on
Speaker 1: there was someone a lot more experienced than me, a
Speaker 1: lot more expert in their subjects. But why did I
Speaker 1: actually start growing Because I had something of the Dunan
Speaker 1: Kruger effect, which is like the amount of peak stupid,
Speaker 1: which is like you just have confidence because you don't
Speaker 1: know anything and you still post. The problem with subject
Speaker 1: matter experts is because they know so much and they
Speaker 1: kind of most of don't even care about like social
Speaker 1: media and a lot of stuff, is that they're the
Speaker 1: ones that post the least. Like, honestly, the people that
Speaker 1: know the most are probably the person that post the least.
Speaker 1: So you can expect, let's say, to get someone within
Speaker 1: a subject matter expert to create a piece of content
Speaker 1: or to want to if they say they they don't
Speaker 1: like that. But what you can do, as let's say
Speaker 1: a marketer or someone within your team, so you can
Speaker 1: hop on a call with them, ask them questions, get
Speaker 1: them excited to talk about certain topics in a way
Speaker 1: that you know they will be willing to give you
Speaker 1: that information. Maybe like forcing them every single day, like
Speaker 1: please write a LinkedIn post. Write LinkedIn post is good
Speaker 1: for our company, or this or that won't work because
Speaker 1: maybe they're just not interested. And something that happens a
Speaker 1: lot with people that know the most is that they're
Speaker 1: the ones that least want to post because the more
Speaker 1: you know, the more ignorant you know you are, and
Speaker 1: you know that there's more people that know more than you,
Speaker 1: and then it just becomes this whole ball effect where
Speaker 1: like the people that know the most and the most
Speaker 1: the most experts in their topic are the ones least posting.
Speaker 1: So find a way to be able to extract their content.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like how I do with my content
Speaker 1: marketing agency, what do we do with founders, executives and
Speaker 1: people that we are managing their posts because we ghost, right,
Speaker 1: we design, we write, we engage, We literally do everything
Speaker 1: for them from zero is we just hop on a
Speaker 1: call like we're having right now, and we're getting a
Speaker 1: conversation and we're able to extract that knowledge from them
Speaker 1: in a much more easier way than expecting them to
Speaker 1: write a post love it.
Speaker 2: I'll just add maybe five cents as kind of another
Speaker 2: way how to tackle this. What we do for ourselves
Speaker 2: and for the SAWA clients as a part of a
Speaker 2: of Aquata ABM programs, we do count based content strategy
Speaker 2: planning and it's like two to three hours workshop with
Speaker 2: sales leaders with subject matter experts and basically we pick
Speaker 2: up this the part of the cluster target and we
Speaker 2: pick up one specific use case, primary buyer persona, relevant verticals,
Speaker 2: and then do the entire use case decomposition, asking about
Speaker 2: the challenges, the status quo. We are dealing with, the
Speaker 2: misconceptions and misbeliefs right from the target accounts. Then developing
Speaker 2: this big narrative, like you said, so the core like
Speaker 2: let's say cornerstone piece of content, right, what like let's
Speaker 2: say what type of framework we want to deliver an
Speaker 2: our case, We're almost traded just maybe behind the scenes
Speaker 2: announcement We're almost READI was our first book, and this
Speaker 2: book was purely based on our ABM campaign. It was
Speaker 2: all about full final B to B marketing. But the
Speaker 2: narrative be twigt it how to survive as B to
Speaker 2: B CMO in the era of long sales cycles and AI. Right,
Speaker 2: So that this assuming the webinar that we hosted last
Speaker 2: year was maybe fifteen hundred sign ups, we didn't even expect.
Speaker 2: That's kind of that demand and that interest in that topic.
Speaker 2: So all of this happens during the one workshop. Then
Speaker 2: you go down you ask all the follow up questions
Speaker 2: and literally you spend maybe two to three hours a month,
Speaker 2: but you get tons of inputs. You get tons of
Speaker 2: questions from sales because they're in the trenches. They provide
Speaker 2: kind of additional insights, right, So lots of this becomes
Speaker 2: your cornerstone, cornerstone transcript that you can use for the
Speaker 2: social pieces of content, for the newsletters, et cetera. So
Speaker 2: this is kind of another way of thinking about it.
Speaker 2: And we have a couple of questions which I feel
Speaker 2: are really relevant. So one is from Tresa and one
Speaker 2: from myself. So let me let me formulate it that way.
Speaker 2: So let's say if I am a B to B
Speaker 2: CMO right, and I want to implement this framework, where
Speaker 2: should we start and how to implement that step by step?
Speaker 2: Because what Tresas said, I will just bring it right.
Speaker 2: Let's say, imagine we have just small team, only two
Speaker 2: full time marketers, which is the case for most mid
Speaker 2: size was even not midsize are small size companies?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: It feels overwhelming to try to manage so many channels.
Speaker 2: But I think, how we need to rephrase this question,
Speaker 2: not do you think it's still realistic? But what is
Speaker 2: realistic to do with this resources? How would you adjust it?
Speaker 1: So, surprisingly enough, it's not only small companies that have
Speaker 1: such small marketing teams. There was a study I saw
Speaker 1: a few months ago that they interviewed a bunch of
Speaker 1: marketers at small teams, media teams, and big teams, and
Speaker 1: like the max amount of people was insane. It was
Speaker 1: like max ten for like a huge company. Within the
Speaker 1: marketing team also, and for example, Anthropics marketing team was
Speaker 1: like a one person marketing team for like the longest
Speaker 1: and it's like a huge company. So first we need
Speaker 1: to understand as marketers that Honestly, it happens a lot
Speaker 1: for us to be very overwhelmed, for it to be
Speaker 1: only one, two, three, five max ten marketing people within
Speaker 1: like a huge company. So we need to be very
Speaker 1: smart with our time and our strategy because we have
Speaker 1: the CEO on top of us selling. I was like,
Speaker 1: what's the KPI? What are the results? How? And You're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just started the strategy. Can you give me? Can
Speaker 1: you give me a few a few months? And honestly,
Speaker 1: that happens a lot. So the only thing I know
Speaker 1: is scrappy. I've always worked at startups. I've never worked
Speaker 1: at a bigger company than ten people before and when
Speaker 1: I and I've started a new agency as well as
Speaker 1: myself and we're not that many and we manage a
Speaker 1: bunch of clients. So what you need to do is
Speaker 1: you need to be very very smart with the tools
Speaker 1: you use and with the channels you choose to be on.
Speaker 1: So anything I would do at the beginning is to
Speaker 1: do research, because the only issue, let's say, with podcasts
Speaker 1: and conferences is like I can't literally sit down with
Speaker 1: each one of you and see what industry you're in,
Speaker 1: what resources do you have, who's your ICP, because again,
Speaker 1: in marketing, it all depends on that. But the universal
Speaker 1: principle that can work for anyone here no matter what
Speaker 1: industry they have or what ICP is to do the research. See, Okay,
Speaker 1: what are the channels that our ICP is finding information on.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we'll have people where I'm like, honestly, maybe YouTube
Speaker 1: isn't the place you should be trying, or LinkedIn isn't
Speaker 1: the place you should be trying. Maybe you should be
Speaker 1: trying Seo, even though people say SEO is dead, Like
Speaker 1: there's always a different channel. But the first mindset change
Speaker 1: is I'm going to do research and I'm going to
Speaker 1: find where my ICP is. First. Once I found that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I've noticed that a lot of our
Speaker 1: ideal customers are scrolling on LinkedIn. They're finding information, but
Speaker 1: they're also trying to get the step by step process
Speaker 1: on YouTube. So once I've defined the channels I'm going
Speaker 1: to tackle, I'll tackle those, and once I start tackling them,
Speaker 1: I get that long form piece whereas I'm actually going
Speaker 1: to extract the subject matter expertise. So let's say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I found out that I want to be on LinkedIn
Speaker 1: and on a newsletter, for example, So why don't I
Speaker 1: just start the long form piece of content with the
Speaker 1: subject matter experts as the newsletter, and then I extract
Speaker 1: that into LinkedIn. So it really has to be a
Speaker 1: mindset of thinking, where is my source of content going
Speaker 1: to be from that I can easily extract from. Then
Speaker 1: comes Okay, I did the research, I know where to go.
Speaker 1: I've chosen my channels, and I've chosen my main source
Speaker 1: of information. And let's say where I'm actually going to
Speaker 1: be able to repurpose this content. Now I need to
Speaker 1: use the AI tools that are out there in my disposal.
Speaker 1: So honestly, it's getting even more insane than ever. Claude
Speaker 1: with Claud skills with Claud Cowork is absolutely a monster,
Speaker 1: and it's one of those things that maybe as a
Speaker 1: marketer myself also scares me. But if you build a
Speaker 1: good Claud skill that understands how to repurpose from your
Speaker 1: long form content into the other pieces, it could get
Speaker 1: you eighty percent there. And I have an agency. Maybe
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be saying this, and I should tell you guys,
Speaker 1: oh no, you need an agency to do this outsource everything.
Speaker 1: But honestly, there's a lot of potential you can do
Speaker 1: and a lot of things you can do just with
Speaker 1: like a claud skills that is very well organized. That's
Speaker 1: what we do at the workflow for example, it's just
Speaker 1: my newsletter. We break down different how to use AI
Speaker 1: and automations for content and marketing. But once you've found again,
Speaker 1: research what channels I'm looking for, what's my main source
Speaker 1: of let's say truth, and then how am I going
Speaker 1: to utilize the tools that are out there in my disposal?
Speaker 1: I started playing with openclaw for example, and let me
Speaker 1: tell you guys that it's insane, Like we do a
Speaker 1: lot of news jacking for our clients because something that
Speaker 1: happens is we're a small marketing team. We are a
Speaker 1: logo that no one recognizes, and I'm trying to break
Speaker 1: through the noise of a bunch of huge LinkedIn influencers
Speaker 1: that are just engaging on each other's posts. How do
Speaker 1: I do that? One of the best ways to do
Speaker 1: that is what I call newsjacking, brand jacking and name jacking.
Speaker 1: Using a news within your industry. Because if no one
Speaker 1: knows who you are, no one knows your company, no
Speaker 1: one knows your name, they will be interested in the
Speaker 1: news within their industry because it is relevant for everyone.
Speaker 1: So you can be a literally a no one and
Speaker 1: you can go viral on LinkedIn. With these type of things.
Speaker 1: You can't just become a journal reporter, right, but if
Speaker 1: you use a correct news that is relevant with your industry,
Speaker 1: you're one of the first ones to report it, and
Speaker 1: then you say why people should care, You explain it
Speaker 1: in a really good way, and then you tie it
Speaker 1: to your company. It's one of the best ways to
Speaker 1: go viral, for example, on LinkedIn and to be able
Speaker 1: to bring in new eyeballs. Then you have to combine
Speaker 1: it with what I call authority content, which exactly showing
Speaker 1: that you know what you're doing. So there's so many
Speaker 1: ways that small teams can get huge rests with again
Speaker 1: the whole process I just had of a content flywheel
Speaker 1: and then playing little tactics. So this open Claw AI
Speaker 1: agent that I've just built, which actually I think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna in the in the workflow, I think it's one
Speaker 1: of the probably the fourth issue coming next that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna explain how to actually plug in open claw and
Speaker 1: create that. We've created an AI agent that goes and
Speaker 1: finds news relevant news within the industry of our person.
Speaker 1: Every single day it comes and it sends it to
Speaker 1: our Slack channel and it tells us, hey, because again
Speaker 1: we have an agency. So this person client in the
Speaker 1: SEO agency, these are the latest news. This person in
Speaker 1: the LinkedIn let's say industry, these are the latest news
Speaker 1: the AI. We have someone that works with AI and
Speaker 1: all of that. These are the latest news. We go
Speaker 1: into our AI agent, we extract that and we create
Speaker 1: a piece of content. And the amount of numbers and
Speaker 1: like let's say, views we've been able to get for
Speaker 1: our clients is insane. So probably that would be kind
Speaker 1: of like the step by the process for a smaller
Speaker 1: team is finding your source of truth finding, using the
Speaker 1: right tools, be able to maximize your output, choosing the
Speaker 1: right channels, and then just being scrappy at the end
Speaker 1: of the day.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: We have a couple of questions that I pushed the
Speaker 2: Q and A, but before we'll cover them, I think, well,
Speaker 2: we're talking about the strategy itself. I would love to
Speaker 2: ask I know, not provocative question, but I think very relevant.
Speaker 2: Let's say some people are listening to us right now
Speaker 2: and they might think, okay, that's everything that de Andra says,
Speaker 2: makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3: But we are already run in this flywheel.
Speaker 2: So we're posting something and linked in, we have the
Speaker 2: news letter, we're doing the webinars, but we're not getting
Speaker 2: a lot of results, and oppositely, our reach is going down, right,
Speaker 2: executives a question and as all metrics honestly are going down.
Speaker 2: So if you have heard this argument right for the
Speaker 2: first time, ovis so we can immediate Let's say the
Speaker 2: quality is the most important thing and how you're doing this.
Speaker 3: But anyhow, let's say, if you are hearing.
Speaker 2: This argument right, how would you audit what the company
Speaker 2: is doing and how would you present the gaps or
Speaker 2: the problems? And the framework can explain what should be
Speaker 2: done differently, right, because the fact that you are doing
Speaker 2: things but not doing them the right way right, this
Speaker 2: is kind of quite often the challenge.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that definitely is the biggest challenge. It's like
Speaker 1: finding what is it that I'm doing wrong and how
Speaker 1: can I do it better? So my main let's say,
Speaker 1: starting point always comes with research, because if you don't
Speaker 1: really know the landscape, what working and what's not working,
Speaker 1: you're just guessing and throwing spaghetti to the wall. And
Speaker 1: throwing darts to see wherever it lands. Right, So the
Speaker 1: first thing I would do is do research. Are there
Speaker 1: competitors within your space that are doing well? Go and
Speaker 1: steal like an artist. I always say this metaphor because
Speaker 1: I feel that the best strategy in marketing today is
Speaker 1: to steal like an artist. What do artists do? A
Speaker 1: monette of the world? Right, would get inspiration from the
Speaker 1: other the first impressionisms that were before him and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and then he created the first paintings you'll
Speaker 1: see that were very kind of like a copy of
Speaker 1: the previous artists that existed and then started creating their
Speaker 1: own strategy. So stealing like an artist is going and
Speaker 1: finding people, that's say, within your industry competitors, I don't know,
Speaker 1: other industry leaders, other influencers. What are they doing differently
Speaker 1: to me that is working? So you do that research
Speaker 1: and then you're probably just through that research. If it's
Speaker 1: like one day research, two day research, a three day research,
Speaker 1: you're gonna find so many gaps within your content that
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, oh wow, I didn't think about it.
Speaker 1: But if you just go blindly, you just are so
Speaker 1: like squared inside your mind of like, this is how
Speaker 1: I want to do it, but it's not working, and
Speaker 1: then you just try other ways. So my first first
Speaker 1: step would always be to go in and find what
Speaker 1: other people are doing right. Not the mega influencers, not
Speaker 1: the huge maybe brands, but maybe like what are the outliers?
Speaker 1: And that's for example, how I started my YouTube. How
Speaker 1: if we've started all of our clients YouTube and we
Speaker 1: had zero followers, nothing, and they started blowing up? Why
Speaker 1: Because I didn't just start creating content. Because I went
Speaker 1: and I looked at all the people that were doing
Speaker 1: things correctly, and I would find their outliers. What are
Speaker 1: the outlier posts, what are the outlier videos, what are
Speaker 1: the outlier newsletters? And what is it inside? And it's
Speaker 1: kind of like a thing of taste. You start understanding
Speaker 1: the taste, you start understanding the art of it, and
Speaker 1: you can easily come in. So my main thing would
Speaker 1: be do some research, find what's working, to be able
Speaker 1: to find the gaps within yours, and then also find
Speaker 1: your own outliers. Maybe you've had a few posts that
Speaker 1: have post on LinkedIn, post on YouTube, newsletters, wherever it
Speaker 1: is that you're trying to create this content flywell and
Speaker 1: find your own own outliers and be like, Okay, why
Speaker 1: does this work and why does this don't? So one
Speaker 1: hundred percent would be finding the gaps within your own
Speaker 1: content and then finding the outliers and other people's content
Speaker 1: to be able to do that research and that audit.
Speaker 2: Okay, and let's say if I'm going to pick this up, right,
Speaker 2: and I have an idea of how let's say our
Speaker 2: content flywheel looks like I'm coming to my CEO, right,
Speaker 2: and I'm saying, Okay, this is the framework that I
Speaker 2: want to implement. I want you and our leadership to
Speaker 2: let's say, publish some content to do to raise brand awareness, right,
Speaker 2: to do the norchurin of our target account because we
Speaker 2: can stay top of the mind, etc. Right, And I
Speaker 2: need to involve you or another subject matter expert dependent
Speaker 2: on who we are selling to, right, and for this
Speaker 2: and your here back.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's time consuming. Why you can't do this with AI? Right?
Speaker 2: How would you argue in that case and defend this framework?
Speaker 2: Maybe you can just give a specific example where AI
Speaker 2: generated content fails and also where do you see the
Speaker 2: role of AI.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Andre, you've been on LinkedIn for a while,
Speaker 1: just like I am, and you probably remember that. I
Speaker 1: don't remember if you did these type of post because
Speaker 1: I felt that you've always been kind of like ahead
Speaker 1: of the game, because you've been always like value driven
Speaker 1: how I content. But I, for example, I did do
Speaker 1: this at the beginning. I'm one hundred percent guilty, those
Speaker 1: like basic carousels where I was like how to do
Speaker 1: something one, two, three, four, and they would blow up
Speaker 1: like they would go insanely viral. The difference today with
Speaker 1: AI generated content is that AI can spin that app
Speaker 1: super easily. How to do something is going to be
Speaker 1: so much more faster to find THROUGHWBT, through an LLM,
Speaker 1: through whatever LM of your choice. But what will never
Speaker 1: be able to be replaced by AI is how I
Speaker 1: or how we, for example within the company. So the
Speaker 1: case of AI generated slop being not useful and you
Speaker 1: having to move your strategy is just the fact that
Speaker 1: it's so easy to create. And with anything, the more
Speaker 1: some of resource is easy to find, the less of
Speaker 1: its value. Right, So plastic is really easy to create,
Speaker 1: so it's very cheap to do plastic. Gold isn't easy
Speaker 1: to find, so gold is much more expensive, so you
Speaker 1: need to create expensive valuable rare content to be able
Speaker 1: to get out of the AI slop world that exists.
Speaker 1: So the easiest let's say, argument against AI generated content
Speaker 1: and actually building a strategy that is based on how
Speaker 1: I is just the fact that it's much more rare
Speaker 1: content to find the other side, so it just becomes
Speaker 1: much more valuable. Same thing as like plastic and gold
Speaker 1: would be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a perfect one. Also, I think what is
Speaker 2: really important to do is if let's say that is
Speaker 2: a pressure right to bolt AI on everesth And I mean,
Speaker 2: you can't do a lot here, even if you'll start
Speaker 2: with the change management.
Speaker 3: Still you need to do this.
Speaker 2: I think the best way is just to prepare the
Speaker 2: comparison right before and after. So here's what we were
Speaker 2: doing with let's say manual effort, right, And I again
Speaker 2: I would be conservative a bit to b better around,
Speaker 2: but I would say you need to connect the dots
Speaker 2: to the revenue.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: You can always say you can always talk to sales, right,
Speaker 2: speak to them which content actually helped to drive the pipeline?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Are there any content assets that they're using in the
Speaker 2: conversation they are distributing it?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: So you can always pick up that narrative, right, because
Speaker 2: leadership always listens to sales. Right, So, and then you
Speaker 2: can compare it to the AI production. Okay, this is
Speaker 2: what we are producing with AI sales. They don't want
Speaker 2: to use this content, right, the engagement will published. The
Speaker 2: engagement is going down all the time. The further we had,
Speaker 2: let's say, engagement from the strategic accounts. Now we don't
Speaker 2: have the strategic accounts engagement. And it's not because of
Speaker 2: the linked and rich. It's because even like having this
Speaker 2: conversation with your subject matter expert, Okay, this is what
Speaker 2: I have created with AI. Is it good if like,
Speaker 2: let's say, if I would give it to you, would
Speaker 2: you publish it on your profile? If your subject matter
Speaker 2: expert the neediately says no, it's a crap, right, it's
Speaker 2: a perfect answer that you have a real content problem.
Speaker 2: So a couple of these things, and well, I would
Speaker 2: love to ask you before we have all the questions,
Speaker 2: and guys, don't worry. I just pushed your questions to
Speaker 2: the Q and A will cover them. But I just
Speaker 2: really want to answer, Sorry, to ask a couple of
Speaker 2: questions that are super relevant to everybody today. So let's say,
Speaker 2: I mean typically an enterprise B to B right, the
Speaker 2: decision is made by the buying committee, and the high
Speaker 2: you are climbing, right, the more market you are going,
Speaker 2: the more people will be involved eight twelve, sixteen buyers
Speaker 2: per committee, et cetera. Right, most of these people if
Speaker 2: you're not selling to market ors, if you're not selling
Speaker 2: to salespeople, right, if you are selling to IT procurements, right,
Speaker 2: and other departments, they're not active and I mean in
Speaker 2: that sense they're not actively engaging on LinkedIn. How does
Speaker 2: a content flywheel reach let's say the VP of it
Speaker 2: who doesn't engage with any cel how to show actually
Speaker 2: how to share that the distribution and your content reaches
Speaker 2: the target buyer persona that's hard to reach.
Speaker 1: There is something I like saying, which is every piece
Speaker 1: of content needs a job. And it kind of relates
Speaker 1: to what you were saying in terms of like talk
Speaker 1: to your sales team, see which pieces of content are
Speaker 1: helping them more sell. But as a marketer, it's the
Speaker 1: reality we can't just think about selling. We have to
Speaker 1: think about reach as well, because we need to get
Speaker 1: more eyeballs to bring in more potential customers. So, when
Speaker 1: you are a marketer, you're in this, You're like between
Speaker 1: a sword and a wall of like, oh god, I
Speaker 1: need to get more reach, but I also need to
Speaker 1: bring us more money. So my sales team is asking me, okay,
Speaker 1: we need to bring in more money, but then my
Speaker 1: marketing manager I don't know, is telling me like, we
Speaker 1: need to get more reach. So for those things to happen,
Speaker 1: you need to have a content mix, which is between
Speaker 1: conversion content, which is probably twenty percent, because the more
Speaker 1: you're trying to sell something to people more they're going
Speaker 1: to just tune off and be like, Okay, this person
Speaker 1: just trying to sell me with their content. There's no
Speaker 1: value here, authority content, which actually brings in let's say
Speaker 1: the trust, and then the growth content. So I always
Speaker 1: classified in those three buckets growth content, authority content, and
Speaker 1: conversion content. The growth content is let's say your reach plays.
Speaker 1: That's where you can get a little bit more creative
Speaker 1: as a marketer to bring in more reach, to bring
Speaker 1: in more impressions, to bring in more of like the
Speaker 1: ego boosting numbers with the strategy I was giving you guys,
Speaker 1: with newsjacking, with brand jacking, with name jacking, with things
Speaker 1: that you know are going to get mass appeal, but
Speaker 1: still targeted to an ICP. It's not that I'm saying
Speaker 1: post the most fluffiest piece of content that that's growth, Like,
Speaker 1: that's not what I mean. What I mean with growth
Speaker 1: is that something can be For example, let's say you
Speaker 1: are in healthcare, so someone there was trying to target
Speaker 1: healthcare cmos and head of growth. Healthcare is a hard industry.
Speaker 1: I used to work at a medtech company as well,
Speaker 1: because people they are scrolling on LinkedIn, but they aren't
Speaker 1: really like interacting, they aren't engaging. They're like lurkers. They're ghosts.
Speaker 1: You have no idea what they like because you can't.
Speaker 1: You don't even get signals from them of like what
Speaker 1: they're commenting and what they're liking. They don't even post,
Speaker 1: and you're like, how do I do the research? Deandra
Speaker 1: told me it's like, literally, no one is posting within
Speaker 1: my industry. So there is where you play these growth
Speaker 1: let's say tactics and play, which is you think about
Speaker 1: what are certain news that even though they are such
Speaker 1: lurkers and they would never comment on a post where
Speaker 1: we're saying like, oh look at our company, we're so good,
Speaker 1: we do this, which is like the conversion content to
Speaker 1: be able to bring in people. So what would get
Speaker 1: them engaging and what would get their eyeballs interested? The
Speaker 1: latest Let's say I'm super a longevity freak. I love
Speaker 1: everything that has to do with health and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So let's say there's a new research in terms of
Speaker 1: bananas being good for your health. I don't know, something
Speaker 1: crazy like that that just brings in more mass appeal,
Speaker 1: that brings in more growth, and that brings in those
Speaker 1: eyeballs from the right people. Are you going to base
Speaker 1: all your content on just the latest research, the latest
Speaker 1: name a news jacking name Jackie Brown jack and grabbing
Speaker 1: someone's face, someone big within. Let's say I don't know
Speaker 1: Brian Johnson, if you guys know anything about longevity, like
Speaker 1: just using his face on a post would probably bring
Speaker 1: in more people. Or like Andrew Huberman or someone big
Speaker 1: within your space using their face, using a logo, using
Speaker 1: a news that just came out to be able to
Speaker 1: bring more eyeballs. Then you create the second content, which
Speaker 1: this content's job is to bring in eyeballs from the
Speaker 1: right people and mass appeal, but it has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with it. Let's say your company if you're giving
Speaker 1: the latest news of someone big within your industry. It
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with your company, So you might
Speaker 1: say like, oh, why am I creating this content? This
Speaker 1: is to bring the people in. Then the authority content
Speaker 1: is the one that's not going to show that you
Speaker 1: guys know what you do. So we do this. This
Speaker 1: is our latest research. This is our step by step process,
Speaker 1: this is our framework, This is how we do things.
Speaker 1: And then the actual conversion content is the one where
Speaker 1: you actually ask for like, hey, I just stepped every
Speaker 1: I just did a step by step process on how
Speaker 1: to do this in our newsletter. Go sign up to
Speaker 1: get the full thing. So every piece of content needs
Speaker 1: a job, and that's why you need to have a
Speaker 1: good content mix. The job of the growth content is
Speaker 1: to bring in the eyeballs and bring in bigger audiences.
Speaker 1: The job of the authority content is to build trust
Speaker 1: and get people to trust you. The conversion content is
Speaker 1: to actually bring in the money, the sales and the revenue.
Speaker 2: Makes perfect sense, thank you. One last question one. I
Speaker 2: will skip about collaboration with sales because we don't have
Speaker 2: time for this, But last question from myself, and then
Speaker 2: we'll cover the questions in the Q and A. Remember
Speaker 2: when we spoke about adapting the framework to the smaller teams, right,
Speaker 2: you mentioned COO is the CEO is pushing you way.
Speaker 3: The results, et cetera. Right, So I'm just wondering.
Speaker 2: Let's say if I'm a B to B CMO with
Speaker 2: the long sale cycles, and obviously I won't see mediating
Speaker 2: boundaryquests of pipeline, right, this is just the nature of
Speaker 2: the business. But let's say if I implement your framework
Speaker 2: now in March, right, and my CEO asks me in
Speaker 2: June like, what did we get from this content investment?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: What should I show him? How would you report any
Speaker 2: metrics whatever?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Basically the key question is how can we defend the
Speaker 2: framework gif CLSSK but with different close.
Speaker 1: Innocent the best way is to actually understand and explain
Speaker 1: in the best way what each piece of content strategy is.
Speaker 1: So if you talk to your CEO and you tell him, look, yeah,
Speaker 1: this post blew up, but it didn't bring us any clients,
Speaker 1: but it's bringing in the eyeballs for us to create
Speaker 1: the authority content and the conversion content, I think no
Speaker 1: CEO would be upset with that. I think the biggest
Speaker 1: problem with marketing teams and community. Communicating to CEO or
Speaker 1: telling them kind of like defending their content strategy and
Speaker 1: their content system and their content framework why they did
Speaker 1: certain posts is just a communication problem because if you
Speaker 1: explain to your CEO why you're doing every single thing
Speaker 1: and how it's a funnel that yes, this post didn't
Speaker 1: bring in clients, but this post is the one that's
Speaker 1: going to bring us the eyeball to the authority content,
Speaker 1: and the authority content is the one that's going to
Speaker 1: allow us to actually bring in a conversion because how
Speaker 1: are you going to close if all you're posting is
Speaker 1: conversion type posts and you're not bringing eyeballs to actually
Speaker 1: funnel them in. It's almost impossible. And that's why it
Speaker 1: happens a lot that we're posting. We're posting and we're
Speaker 1: trying to sell. We're trying to sell. First we're not
Speaker 1: getting impressions, and then we're not getting sales, and then
Speaker 1: we're not getting anything. That's why there has to be
Speaker 1: a content mix. So it's always, always, always a communication problem.
Speaker 1: If you understand well your strategy, what you're thinking, why
Speaker 1: each piece of content is there for, and what's its job,
Speaker 1: Your CEO should understand it just by communicating, and if
Speaker 1: they don't, maybe it's not the right company to be in, right,
Speaker 1: because it's always I've found out that it's always a
Speaker 1: communication problem. If you or if you're able to explain
Speaker 1: and defend your strategy why it's happening, they should be
Speaker 1: able to to understand.
Speaker 3: Okay, perfect claled.
Speaker 2: So there are a couple of questions about the slides
Speaker 2: and I mentioned this in the comments, but would have
Speaker 2: to say one more time, guys, Deandra to Gazavez help
Speaker 2: partner for the workflow project. Sarah will be presented at
Speaker 2: alla full Funnel Summat. The sign up link in the
Speaker 2: pint message full Final dota O slash Summat where you
Speaker 2: can sign up and you'll listen to the entire framework
Speaker 2: breakdown and you can get the slides as well. So
Speaker 2: don't hesitate to sign up, share with your colleagues and
Speaker 2: we'll see you then. And now it's a time for
Speaker 2: the Q and A. Let me pick up the questions
Speaker 2: that we have a question from Lena at one point
Speaker 2: do you introduce the ceosot leadership content. The thing I
Speaker 2: want to dive into is what are the main barriers
Speaker 2: your face when working with the executives.
Speaker 1: Yes, the main strugg We work with a lot of
Speaker 1: CEOs and a lot of founders, and the main barrier
Speaker 1: we face is just time. Usually right like they're like,
Speaker 1: I don't have time. They don't do it themselves, so
Speaker 1: I don't know, Lenna. If you are the one managing
Speaker 1: the content, just the strategy, you're gonna be posting for
Speaker 1: them what you're planning to do with the CEO's thought leadership.
Speaker 1: If it's either like motivate him to do it or
Speaker 1: you're willing to let' say come in and gost writ
Speaker 1: posts and do it for him, but or her, the
Speaker 1: strategy there is hop on a call, it's I've done
Speaker 1: everything right, Like we have an agency that literally builds
Speaker 1: thought leadership on LinkedIn for a bunch of executive CEOs,
Speaker 1: business founders, et cetera, et cetera. And the best way
Speaker 1: is to block their calendar and be like you need
Speaker 1: to spend one hour with me a week or every
Speaker 1: two weeks. They're blocked, they have no way to run.
Speaker 1: You don't have to chase them through Slack. You don't
Speaker 1: have to chase them through like pinging them. Make sure
Speaker 1: they're getting it you're burning out. If you have that
Speaker 1: hour with them to one ask them the right questions
Speaker 1: to be able to You can use a transcript as well. Again,
Speaker 1: use the tools you have. Go on a riverside, go
Speaker 1: on to Google meet, get your Fathom recorder, get whatever
Speaker 1: meeting recorder you use. On the call with you ask
Speaker 1: them the questions. You get that full transcript. Not only
Speaker 1: is it amazing content for them to start posting, but
Speaker 1: also it's content that's going to be in their voice
Speaker 1: because it's the literal words and phrases that he or
Speaker 1: her choose to say to be able to write in
Speaker 1: the piece of content. So main barrier is always time.
Speaker 1: How do you solve that barrier? Booking their calendar with
Speaker 1: a certain time where you get tasks done either let's
Speaker 1: say the thirty minutes is to ask the right questions
Speaker 1: and extract them in a transcript, and the other thirty
Speaker 1: minutes is to write, let's say, for them to review
Speaker 1: the post with you live. So if you're having trouble
Speaker 1: for them to actually review the posts that you've created
Speaker 1: or the drafts or the ideas, then also make sure
Speaker 1: that everything happens in that call thirty minutes you're gonna
Speaker 1: do content extraction with the right answers. The other thirty
Speaker 1: minutes you're gonna spend Okay, we're gonna go through our
Speaker 1: Trello board or notion page whatever with the posts we have.
Speaker 1: Are they approved? What will you change? We're gonna schedule
Speaker 1: them now, literally on the call. We're gonna go and
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to your profile. We're gonna schedule it
Speaker 1: for eight am, e s T. It's approved, it's out,
Speaker 1: it's already being posted. That's usually the best way with people,
Speaker 1: just like CEOs, is literally just getting them on the
Speaker 1: spot to do the thing.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: That's a very solid advice. So let's continue our blitz.
Speaker 2: Just to quickly finish the Q and a question from
Speaker 2: Lalita Rave what content goes on B to B brand
Speaker 2: pages and what goes from personal accounts of key executives
Speaker 2: they call.
Speaker 1: The what we've done, for example with the workflow backlinko, Samage,
Speaker 1: Hey reach, all the companies we've worked with is everything
Speaker 1: that has to do with how I very authoritative personal
Speaker 1: in your space usually goes on the personal accounts of
Speaker 1: the CEOs and the team members. The things that can
Speaker 1: be either more fun, more broad because the problem with
Speaker 1: brand pages is that they're really hard to grow because
Speaker 1: nobody really cares about a logo. They care more about
Speaker 1: a face. So what our mindset has to do is
Speaker 1: think what can I post on the brand page that
Speaker 1: is going to make people care about the content by
Speaker 1: itself and not by the b to like, but by
Speaker 1: the brand. If it's a bunch of content about your
Speaker 1: brand and how your new feature. Unless you're a huge
Speaker 1: company that people really care about, you can't just be
Speaker 1: saying like, Okay, this is the new feature we launched,
Speaker 1: this is what we do, this is the case study
Speaker 1: of our clients. This is a picture of our team.
Speaker 1: Like you always have to think that anyone that is
Speaker 1: scrolling on LinkedIn is thinking what is in it for me?
Speaker 1: They don't care about you. That's the main mindset you
Speaker 1: have to do, both for brand pages and for yourself
Speaker 1: and your CEO's brand, like what is in it for me?
Speaker 1: Because I do not care about what you guys do
Speaker 1: what you do, So everything has to be tied in
Speaker 1: into what is in it for them and for the
Speaker 1: brand pages even more because maybe they'll care a little
Speaker 1: bit about the CEO, the team member because it's something interesting,
Speaker 1: but they're not going to care at all if a
Speaker 1: logo is telling them something, So build a strategy around that.
Speaker 1: Maybe you can do a play on giving the latest
Speaker 1: updates in your industry through the brand page so people
Speaker 1: are gonna care more. Maybe you can do like a
Speaker 1: funny strategy where it's like funny memes and stuff like
Speaker 1: that that go more viral. Maybe you do a strategy
Speaker 1: around name jacking, like if a CEO and a team
Speaker 1: member's profile is hard to grow because people are always
Speaker 1: thinking about what is in it for me. The brand
Speaker 1: page has to have triple that mindset, like we have
Speaker 1: to give absolute value or entertain them or give them
Speaker 1: a sil value, something that they will care about because
Speaker 1: it's just a little logo that no one's really gonna
Speaker 1: like just because you posted it on the brand page.
Speaker 2: I love it. Question from Kerry, how do your research
Speaker 2: where your ISP is just go to the channels and
Speaker 2: watch what's yup?
Speaker 3: Approach?
Speaker 1: That is probably one of the hardest things to do today.
Speaker 1: By the way, if anyone knows a tool that does this,
Speaker 1: that would be great, because we we've struggled with that
Speaker 1: as well. The best places we've found is perplexity is
Speaker 1: really good for research. So Perplexity AI tool LLM, it's
Speaker 1: the best LM I've found for like actually doing research.
Speaker 1: Then open claw we're really playing around with open open
Speaker 1: claw and research. If someone doesn't know what open claw is,
Speaker 1: open clause basically this thing a developer randomly created. I
Speaker 1: have nowhere that is like an AI agent that can
Speaker 1: live on Telegram or that can live on What's Up.
Speaker 1: It's kind of creepy. You can literally like message it
Speaker 1: and like a human and it will. It's like an
Speaker 1: employee and it will do things. So the difference with
Speaker 1: like AI tools like perplexity that's really good for research
Speaker 1: and open claw is that Perplexity is on the spot.
Speaker 1: So you ask it, hey, I'm doing research for my ICP.
Speaker 1: These are my channels. What are usually the places they
Speaker 1: look for? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You do
Speaker 1: like a really good prompt to get maybe as much
Speaker 1: research as you can on perplexity. The difference with open
Speaker 1: claw is that you write the prompt, you get the
Speaker 1: message right away. Open class stays on the back end,
Speaker 1: like an employee working doing everything you asked it to do.
Speaker 1: Twenty four to seven. So for example, you can go
Speaker 1: on open claw. I'm actually going to create a YouTube
Speaker 1: video about how to because I've been talking about open club.
Speaker 1: You guys are like, how the hell do I actually
Speaker 1: use it? So I'm gonna do a YouTube video actually
Speaker 1: explaining how to set it up for research and for
Speaker 1: all of these things. And basically you chat with it
Speaker 1: on a telegrammy. You tell them every day at eight am,
Speaker 1: give me the latest research that you find searching on
Speaker 1: all these Twitter accounts, on these LinkedIn accounts, going through
Speaker 1: all the web and during the whole day. It's doing
Speaker 1: that work like an employee. Exactly like an employee. You
Speaker 1: give an employee directions, they do it and then they
Speaker 1: come with the result. This is how it does. So
Speaker 1: probably my answer here is perplexity. There's things like like
Speaker 1: fabricon and other tools, just a simple Google search, LinkedIn search,
Speaker 1: YouTube search, like just really going in and doing different
Speaker 1: channels and watching and looking at who are the people
Speaker 1: commenting and just doing let's say, more manual work. So
Speaker 1: the manual work is one way, perplexity is another way.
Speaker 1: And then something much more advanced is like an open flow.
Speaker 2: Perfect and the last one from Bazil we are trying
Speaker 2: to attract healthcare CMOS head of Growth Marketing Managers, which
Speaker 2: type of content should We can see that YouTube Vida
Speaker 2: was gross frameworks podcast and right and CMOS to discuss
Speaker 2: the industry and then dispense them as shots on linked in, Instagram,
Speaker 2: YouTube TikTok and then infographics and catasels on LinkedIn.
Speaker 3: Perhaps of any other advice.
Speaker 1: I really really like how you're thinking here about inviting
Speaker 1: them on a podcast to talk about the industry, because
Speaker 1: there's we don't really do podcasts at this THINGDL because
Speaker 1: that's just not the channel we manage. But I do
Speaker 1: think that podcasts are such a smart strategy to get
Speaker 1: access to your ICP because, like Basila was saying, it's
Speaker 1: they they're lurkers. They're not commenting, they're not posting, so
Speaker 1: you're like getting no information. It's so hard to get
Speaker 1: information from them because they're just they're just ghosts online.
Speaker 1: But they'll stop being ghosts once you get them on
Speaker 1: a podcast and you get to ask them questions, So
Speaker 1: you could even go and get on a podcast. Some
Speaker 1: people do podcasts not only to like get reach or
Speaker 1: get followers or as like a content marketing play. They
Speaker 1: do it as like a networking ICP research play, so
Speaker 1: you get people on your your podcast could get two views,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter because your strategy isn't doing the podcast to
Speaker 1: get views. Maybe it does blow up and it does
Speaker 1: very well within the industry, which is like a plus.
Speaker 1: But your real, let's say advantage here is that you
Speaker 1: get to hop on a call with your ICP, mask
Speaker 1: it as a podcast and ask them all the questions.
Speaker 1: You can ask them the questions that you had before,
Speaker 1: what channels and what platforms you usually consume content on,
Speaker 1: and you can start asking them to get more subject
Speaker 1: matter expertise. And the more you ask these ICP profiles
Speaker 1: what they care about, the more you can create content
Speaker 1: around that. So I love the podcast idea because you're
Speaker 1: going to get like insider information from them. You're going
Speaker 1: to be able to create what they actually care about
Speaker 1: because you're asking them the questions and getting that information,
Speaker 1: and then you can easily, as you said, use them
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, on Instagram and YouTube, and that could be
Speaker 1: what we were mentioning before, your source of truth. So
Speaker 1: you're finding a place to find the source of truth
Speaker 1: of the subject matter expertise to easily repurpose into other
Speaker 1: channels and build a content flywheel.
Speaker 2: Wow it thank you so much so and I say
Speaker 2: it kind that is an eight. That was how Basil
Speaker 2: thinks about it. And Lalita thank you after attending a
Speaker 2: webinar that delivers real well. And the truth is that
Speaker 2: it's not the webinar, it's Ava Live podcast, so we
Speaker 2: don't have a strict structure here and narrative. Seriously, it's
Speaker 2: just a nice conversation between me and Deandra and you guys,
Speaker 2: our community. So happy to hear that you love it,
Speaker 2: and you can subscribe to our podcast.
Speaker 3: I will drop the link.
Speaker 2: In the chat so you can listen to all the
Speaker 2: previous episodes. And meanwhile, like I said, Deandra and Sarah
Speaker 2: will join us on the summit. It will happen just
Speaker 2: in a few weeks from today, so make sure that
Speaker 2: you'll be there and you'll see the content Flywheel framework connection.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much DeAndre for common or much as
Speaker 2: grass Us or whatever you prefer.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, and thank.
Speaker 2: You so much guys for the amazing questions, for the
Speaker 2: fantastic engagement, and hope to see you all during the
Speaker 2: summit next week. We'll have one last episode before the
Speaker 2: summat and then the big mass of three days even
Speaker 2: Thank you so much again, DeAndre, have a good rest
Speaker 2: of the day and thanks a lot for coming Chill
Speaker 1: Thank Andre and everyone CHIW