Speaker 1: What is up Fellasiko's I Am Damp Valley coming at
you with Mortensen, of Ford's fame, of y'all Who's sports fame,
of the NBA podcast fame, and of only Fans soever
you all missed it, changed his shirt before coming on
right on camera. Don't want to refilmed it. You could
get that on his Only bands with the subscriptions to
go check that out. We're here with another playoff post mortem,
the Orlando Magic. We're kind of just bouncing around doing
these as they happen, but it's fun to get into
the big picture stuff because stuff with each series changes
so much for anyone who cares. Grant and I will
have some previews whichever we can get to like. Once
the series are set, we'll really dig into the second
round and maybe some first round reactions. We're here talk
about the Orlando Magic more.
Speaker 2: How are you feeling doing well? Yes?
Speaker 3: And I can confirm that I was changing my shirt
and you had very very big eyes, so I appreciate
the flirtation that was. That was a major compliment.
Speaker 1: I'm here to serve, I know, but I'm also here
to serve some takes on Orlando, which is entering I
would say it's a fascinating offseason. So let's take a
look here they, I think, well, do you have any
like impressions from their playoff series against the Celtics. Peyton
Pritchard did say that they were the best defense that
Boston has ever faced, which is certainly to have him
say that and then Jalen Suggs wasn't even playing is
pretty incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, look, I don't think anyone really doubted
the defense even without Jalen, so like, good on them
for maintaining that. But it's still, like what I took
away from it is they're so far away offensively still
to the point where that has to be addressed this offseason.
But they have an identity and that's probably the most
important thing you can have as a young team. I
think they competed. I think they gave them everything they could.
And again, that's just such a good trait for young
team because we've seen it a thousand times. Dan young
teams get into the playoffs, they aren't really sure of themselves,
they get a little passive.
Speaker 2: These guys are the exact opposite.
Speaker 3: They fight, they hustle a claw, and they do everything
they possibly can to get there. They never quit. So
the makeup, the mental makeup of this team is great.
They just need more talent.
Speaker 1: And I think before we'll get into trades, free agency
targets what they actually need. But this also kind of
starts with not that people lay this at the feet
of Paalo Bankaro, but there seems to be just some
division on how good of a player is he because, Okay,
he can score, he's pretty switchable defensively, he could rebound.
Look at how balletic yet brutal he is on the ball.
But then he's not super efficient and he did shoot
forty four and a half percent from three against the Celtics.
He seems like he has that Jimmy Butler geing in
him where seems like he's always shooting better from three
in the playoffs. From what we've seen thus far, he's
extension maligeable this summer. So let's go through the different scenarios.
Before we even go through, do we both just agree
that he is getting the max?
Speaker 3: Of course, of course, even if he's not a great
shooter a great efficiency player, yet he's three years in
look at who he's playing with from a spacing perspective, Yeah, absolutely,
you gamble on that upside and you give him a max, and.
Speaker 1: So I would agree with you. I'm a huge Palabank
Caro fan. I think that he's going to be an
MVP candidate, like a top five MVP candidate one day,
because I want to see him within a better spacing environment.
If you go through like catch and shoot three point metrics,
off ball gravity metrics, just general floor spacing metrics, you
will see that Palo bank Caro's teammates reliably across the
board ranked in like the fifth, the fourth, the zero
fixth percentile. And so I think a lot of his
shot difficulty and his efficiency struggles just come down to
the spacing environment which which he works. And so the
five year max at twenty five percent would be two
hundred and forty six point seven million dollars. Would you
agree that they're probably going to include the thirty percent
language that could bring it up to two hundred and
ninety six million.
Speaker 3: I'm absolutely Why wouldn't they?
Speaker 1: They did it for Franz, so I don't know. If
they don't do it for Palo, that would be that
would be fascinating. I don't know what that would say,
but that would be super fascinating, and I just so
now you do have like that impacts there. So it's
not going to impact what they're making or excuse me,
their cap sheet headed into this summer, but it does
kind of impact their thinking this summer because now in
twenty twenty six, you're gonna have Franz in this second
year of his max, Jalen Suggs in the second year
of his extension, and then Palo's Palo's MAX extension would
kick in as well, And so you get into just
like the cap stuff with them this summer. As of
right now, if they kind of keep everybody, they're eleven
million dollars over the tax, they can duck it. They
could wave and maybe resign Mo Wagner who's non guaranteed
at eleven Gary Harris at seven point five million, you
wave them, you could try to resign them the cheaper deals.
I will say, even if you expect them to duck
the tax, accessing all or part of that non tax
player mid level exception at fourteen point one million, that
seems like a stretch right for this team, I would assume.
Speaker 3: So like you have two you said it, you have
two guys entering major extensions, like Franz is gonna add
thirty one million to his total, Sucks is gonna have
at like twenty six, twenty five, twenty six million to
his total. Yeah, absolutely still have CV's coal Pulp on
the roster earning over twenty million. Like even if even
with with Jonathan Isaac declining in value for don declining
in value but declining and compensation level for ten million,
it just doesn't add up. Like you are looking at
a very expensive team, which is why they need to
do something this year, right.
Speaker 1: And I mean you could, I guess, offload other salary
to try and access the non tax payermentles, so you
duck the tax and you get to use this to
one a free agent. But you need to be sure
that that free agent is gonna make a difference at
this point, if you were trying to move in Davies
called the Pope, and maybe if you're even trying to
move Jonathan Isaac, I know that deal declines, but he
just doesn't play like he's like a twelve minute per
game player, And so you might have attach something to
that money. And if you're gonna do that, I think
you might as well take a swing on the trade
market and I and you're you alluded to this. That's
where any change, any significant change in so far as
they make any is gonna come on the trade market.
They have all their own first round picks moving forward.
They have Denverse first round pick this year. They have
like guys will still teams excuse me, will still want
to take a look at Jet Howard. They have Tristan
da Silva. Anthony Black is super interesting as a trade asset.
So they have a ton of assets. But what is
tough for this roster is Franz, Polo and Suggs will
be about one hundred and sixteen million plus in twenty
twenty six. That's if Palo doesn't get the thirty percent max.
If he doesn't make all MBA or something, that's like
seventy percent of a cap gone right there, and there's
still other money on the books. If you want them
to take a major swing, it's tough because if you
start to throw in names that are on the books
for three years whatever and they're a LaMelo ball as
an interest your favorite player in the league, you can't like,
we're just past the point as we're in this CBA
where okay, well like Sugs, Franz and Pallo are not
all going to be on the roster. If you decide
you want to trade for LaMelo Ball or if Jamal
Murray becomes available, you might even in given Orlando's cap
sheet history, I think you could argue that they might
even be hard pressed to have two of such players
on the roster. And I think that's the challenge for
them is they need to get an offensive difference maker
that doesn't necessarily force them to force them to reorient
like their entire future basically right.
Speaker 3: And that's where things get problematic because there is a
guy we both have, you know, not necessarily earmark for Orlando,
but a guy who we think makes sense there in
Kobe White. He right now is on a compensation level
that makes a lot of sense. He'll be earning twelve
point eight million, I believe next season that's very manageable
to trade for. But then he's going to be an
unrestricted free agent in twenty twenty six, meaning you'll need
a new deal. What's he going to end up in
like thirty five million himself? Thirty million? Like what are
we I don't even know what the number is, but
it's going to be substantially higher than twelve point eight.
So even if you bring on a dude who is
cheap right now, that doesn't mean he's going to be
cheap in a year from now or two years from now.
So like they have so many moving parts, which is
also partly why I was very low on the KCP
contract last summer. I was very outspoken about that. I
thought that was just a tremendous waste of money. I
understood that it was one of those situations where well,
you know, spend it or lose it, but then frankly
you should have gotten more for that, but a.
Speaker 1: Bit more aggressive to use it on the trade market,
like that stuff is super valuable in those.
Speaker 3: It was that was just such a bone. I know,
it was celebrated every like all around NBA, you know,
online atmosphere. Everyone was like, oh, yeah, that's so great
right up their alley, Like seriously, what did what did
he offer them this year that they didn't have already?
Speaker 2: Like seriously, I.
Speaker 1: Viewed it as more of a signal that they were
going to take swings, and it ended up just being
the only move that they made, which never should have been.
It was he wasn't necessarily duplicative defensively sure, and I
mean the Sug's injury, it ends up kcpends up being
super valuable for them. But even if he was making
shots at the level he was in Denver, he was
never bringing the volume of floor spacing or even the
like the type of shot making and table setting that
they needed, which before even getting into additional names, I
think it's up. It's a multitude of things where it's like,
you just want better floor spacers who could make shots
off the dribble from beyond the arc, even if they're
like stand still guys at this point. But you also
kind of do do you? I guess I'm asking you
how much value do you assigned to the next player
or the biggest addition they're making having to be if
not a floor general, someone who can do a ton
of initiation for others beyond Franz, beyond Palo. We saw
Jael and Suggs used in that roles beyond Corey Joseph
at this point, right, no.
Speaker 3: Mature it has to be I just wrote about this
over at Forbes, like it's now the experiment of having
to you know, run everything through Polo and Franz that
has been explored clearly there is a need for something else,
and and look, it isn't helping that that Franz factor
currently is reworking his entire jump shot. I don't even
know what the hell he's trying to do, right, and
he's pushing instead of shooting right now, which is very concerning,
especially because Paolo as well is, you know, not a
great three point shooter. He's like fine, Like there's potential
there in terms of.
Speaker 1: His all time in the playoffs he shoot like for
in a playoffs or his career out to check that.
Speaker 3: Look, that's great, and that's a good sign. I'm gonna
need to see something a little bit more sustainable. But yeah,
my point is now is the time to go in
for like a a playmaker. I just want to call him,
and yeah, it should be a guard. I think it
should be a guard because if you run everything through
your forwards and you have guards who can't space the
floor off the catch or create something on their own accord,
you are going to get absolutely brutally slaughtered in the playoffs,
regardless of how good defense you have. Like, look, Nico
Harrison spend how many months saying defense wins championships? We
have the Orlando Magic here, No, they don't you need
more than that? Like, yeah, it's a good defense necessary
to win a championship. Absolutely, I'm not arguing otherwise. But
if you think you can win a championship in today's
NBA primarily off the basis of having an elite defense,
you're out of your goddamn mind.
Speaker 1: What level before and just right before we get into
the specific names, what level of player does that need
to be? Though? Because you already mentioned Kobe White, but
like dealing in just archetypes rather than specific names for
a moment, does this player need to be like a
fringe All Star or could you get away with let's
call them the equivalent of a mid level guy who
come in, hit open shots, make some passes. Is this
team good enough to say we don't need to go
to the blockbuster route, like we just sort of need
to futz and fiddle, not necessarily on the margins, but
in the middle of our pecking order.
Speaker 3: What you're essentially asking me is, would is it necessary
for Orlando to go after a Kobe White type instead
of just going for a Ciantual Russell type. And you
know where I'm gonna land on that one.
Speaker 1: I think when the other name is Deangel Russell, it's
not hard to land where you're gonna land.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, you know guys who sign for exceptions,
they're gonna have significant warts. Like, let's just be real,
that is a case, and you have to then have
your warts be so insignificant specifically to the structure of
the magic that they can hide all those weaknesses. But like,
who's that guy? Who is that guy who it might
be able to you can cover up defensively, and then
it's just perfect. Then he just fits in, like oh,
handing glove. I don't know who that player is.
Speaker 1: I guess I was gonna ask so if they could
do something like this and I don't do this is
a perfect solution, but it's sort of a stop gap
when you're looking at their payroll. Let's say you can
get off the KCP deal, take some compensation, but New
Orleans is rebuilding, and you can get the next year
of CJ. McCollum, who does a lot of the stuff
they need. And I don't think he's received enough credit
for the way that he's upped his three point volume
in New Orleans. Does a move like that nudge the
needle in the right direction or they need to be
thinking even bigger.
Speaker 3: No, see, that's a move that does nudge in the
right direction. Because I also think he's more than an
exception guy, right. I know he's older, but his game
isn't exception worthy. It's more than that. It's higher than
exception worthy. So that would be a guy who absolutely
pushes them in the right direction.
Speaker 2: I don't love the.
Speaker 3: Age timeline personally, but you know, in terms of the
archetype of player, hell yes, I mean look, in many ways,
you can argue that Kobe whis like it's just basically
the next generation of CG.
Speaker 2: McCullum.
Speaker 3: They'd be pretty similar in the sense that both were
kind of shooting guards then became kind of ones. They're
still really compos can shoot a bit, but can also.
Speaker 2: Be a bit inconsistent. Like it.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of similarities there, and that's why
White it is always on my list.
Speaker 2: But McCollum is a good shout it.
Speaker 3: Like, yes, you would absolutely fix an absolute shit ton
of what they're going through right now.
Speaker 1: And he is because he's older than Kobe White. Where's
Kobe White so cheap? Now, in terms of just the
raw dollars, but you know he's gonna cost more to
his next deal. CJ. McCollum's kind of the opposite. You
need to come up with the money matching. Now that's
not a problem for Orlando, but he's not gonna be
making thirty plus million dollars in his next deal.
Speaker 3: Right, So that's one more year and then he's an
unrestricted free agent twenty twenty six, unless, of course, designs
an extension which which you can, which doesn't have to
be higher than his current salary. So like, what could
be an interesting contract for CJ McCollum.
Speaker 1: Forty Does that too much?
Speaker 2: I like that?
Speaker 3: No, that's that I feel like that's fair, right, because
at that point he'll be thirty four, you know, he'll
still be effective like on the downslope of his career.
To forty that's you know, Vouch I think got like
three sixty. So that kind of aligns with the twenty
million a year kind of route. I think that's fair.
That would be a good deal for Orlanto too, because
it's very manageable. Twenty million is in a couple of years.
That's the non taxse emily anyway.
Speaker 1: And I guess the other thing is you you sort
of mentioned that you would want to see them trade
for or acquire a different type of center. Yeah, how
high or how big of a swing are you making
on that type of a resource.
Speaker 3: See, that's the thing, because that center has to fit PLO.
And I'm mentioning Polo specifically, not Franz, because that's still
their number one guy. Polo is the guy they had
to build around as like the first thought every whenever
they do.
Speaker 1: We thank you for saying that. I think, by the way,
I think Franz is about as good as you can
be offensively with the type of jumper that he has
right now. But I thought people were really getting over
their skis by having the aha. Is he more important
to the magic than Palo?
Speaker 3: No no? And I'm saying that as a euro guy.
Like by the way, I mean, look, I like Franz,
I actually do. I like him a great deal. But
if like we were talking about warts, he has a
lot of them, and like Powlo to me, projects also
not only with the higher ceiling, he also projects us
the safer.
Speaker 2: Bet moving forward.
Speaker 3: To just be honest about it, he has to be
top of mind when you do make roster alterations. So
for a center to fit alongside Paolo, what type of
center do you need? Well, given these shortcomings from a
spacing perspective, between Paolo and Franz, for both of whom
are going to play, what forty four minutes per game?
Speaker 2: That like, let me just double Checke.
Speaker 3: Yeah, forty four minutes per game both of them. They're
gonna be on the court a lot. You're gonna need
someone who can stretch. I don't think he's available, but
I would love a kilo Ware as well alongside one
of those two guys. What is this going to take
to get him? Presumably a whole lot. That's the type
of player I would go for.
Speaker 1: I you know, and I wouldn't go I agree with
the archetype. I wouldn't go for khalil Ware because I
do think this team needs just stopped trafficking in the
development of the solutions, and khalil Ware spacing is not bankable.
I'd rather see them. I mean, those players are expensive.
We mentioned Nazerie. Probably the price point is too high.
And even if you could make them out, like let's
say they could do a sign and trade right for
what you have to give up? Does it make sense,
like he's not solving your playmaking issue as a like
your gap, so to give up like pick resources to
get him as tough If it only costs contracts, then yeah, sure,
Christops Porzingez could be interesting. If Boston is looking to
cut costs and you're roping in different teams, that might be.
He's a pretty good fit next to Paalo.
Speaker 2: Oh, he would be the best fit.
Speaker 3: I just kind of labeled him as ungettable in this
specific scenario. But if he's not, yeah, I'm all ears,
that would be an amazing fit.
Speaker 1: What do you think about He's a free agent and
he was played off the court against the basers brook Lopez.
Speaker 2: Can he still walk after the summer?
Speaker 1: I don't know. If he goes to Disney World a lot,
so you might get too many steps in and as
his legs could be sore.
Speaker 2: Right right, I mean, look another year with that.
Speaker 1: Would would that be like the most ground bound front
court in the end, like Pallo and brook Lopez.
Speaker 2: It might be, And look there's some there's some worth
in that. I'm not counting that down.
Speaker 3: And look, look he'll have games like if brook Lopez
ends up in Orlando, he will have games where We're like, oh,
we see that, we see the vision here.
Speaker 2: But he's so old.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm literally only two years older than per
to the date, even April first, like thirty seven and
going out there and then he'll be thirty eight come
playoff time next year. That's a tall order, tall tall order.
Speaker 1: What about his teammate Bobby portis this team has probably
the ability to insulate him defensively. You know what this
team really needs, like peak Maxi Kliba. That's like a
half decade ago at that'd be fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's a good one.
Speaker 3: Like Bobby, I'm not in on for this roster specifically
because he's almost exclusively a four now. Like I know
he plays the center spot here and there, but he's
so much better.
Speaker 1: Just puts a lot on Pallo. Yeah, if if the
front court is him in pallow And by the way,
I still love Wendell Carter Junior. It's just they need someone.
You want to open up as much room as possible
for Franz and Powell, and they need someone who's a
better spot up shooter than Wendell Carter Junior.
Speaker 2: Right now, I have a tricky one.
Speaker 1: Karl Anthony Towns I'm.
Speaker 2: Sold no bringing back vouch Man.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, when you think about it, playmaking,
solid ass, rebounding, and look, that's probably the one knock
I have on Paolo is that he doesn't rebound enough.
He like vouch will come in and rebound the heck
out of the ball. We saw this year that he's
so much better as like a trailing three point shooter
than as someone who playsloading the half court with sucks back.
If you also get a new lead guard in there,
maybe you can dial up the offense. We saw that
in the first few games of this season before the injuries,
that they were really dialing up the three point shots
and the pace. Like I don't know, maybe there's something there.
He's familiar with Orlando. He still loves the organization. The
organization still loves him. They didn't leave each other out
in a bad way. Like I wouldn't hate that as
a stopgap option until you find something more sustainable. And look,
if there's a team that can hide his defensive deficiencies,
it's them.
Speaker 1: Jo would be fun and he would have to be
a cost cutting casualty. Otherwise, I don't know why he
would leave his team. Al Horford works here.
Speaker 2: Oh well, I Al Horford works practically everywhere.
Speaker 1: Hey, he didn't he go to Florida's just's be like
a reunion. Maybe he wants to come.
Speaker 3: Back, So sign up Joe Keim Noah as well and
Corey Brewer get the band bets kids.
Speaker 1: So we have a list, and I didn't put every
name that we might talk about, but a list of
perspective trade targets that the Magic could go after. Let's
just tackle them one by one and then you can
add all right on there, LaMelo Ball is for me,
before you take the talking stick. I would love LaMelo
Ball on this team. I think he would be sensational.
But we did just talk about all right, I guess
you are giving up Jail and Suggs and any permutation
of that deal. But now you've decided, oh it's LaMelo,
it's Ben Caro, it's it's Frondz, and like that's sort
of it in terms of the big money. Now they're
all would be on their fun maxes. So it's more
workable than whatever Phoenix was trying to do. But it
really does thin out your margin for error. And if
you're gonna do that, even I'll say this is a
Lamello apologist. You want someone who's more bankable, And I
would say, like, if they were gonna go all out,
I would And this isn't a hot take, but it's like,
then go for Devin Booker, don't go and like figure
out the math with that, rather than trying to figure
out the math for LaMelo, especially given his injury history.
Speaker 3: And the injury history is why I'm just like, no,
they've already had too much of an injury history with
Jalen sucks. I think so like to downgrade from that
situation from a pure availability perspective, it's just to me,
it's nonsense.
Speaker 2: I'm not a complete nonstarter.
Speaker 1: So it's not a non starter for me. I'm I'm
gonna be like i'd be. I want to know what
the pick equity is going, because he's not like he
makes more than Jayalen sucks, but it's not astronomically more,
I think what would give me pauses? Okay, how much?
How many draft picks to Charlotte want? But also you
mentioned the availability with LaMelo, he has not defended well,
even though he has the tools to do so. This
team can insulate him and maybe makes his job easy
enough to where he like, if he's got men him
get for turnovers on this team. So I would be
so intrigued, but I would have a hard line on
the opportunity cost to get him because of the injuries
and just again, because you have to position yourself to
be able to make other moves after this, and so
you can't just empty your draft clip. In addition to
taking on another fun max salary, the.
Speaker 3: Fact that you want to add draft picks to an
outgoing package that includes Stealen Sugs for Lamental.
Speaker 1: Ball, that's just jim.
Speaker 2: I just love tasted my lunch again. Dan.
Speaker 1: Look, maybe history will be written and you'll come out
right on that, but I think LaMelo Ball checks a
lot more anomalous boxes than Jalen Suggs does as a
basketball player. When you're looking at the off the dribble,
shot making, the vision is transcendent. I think in a
better situation. I would even say a better situation because
I think Charlotte does have good people in place up
top right now. But like there's a lot this would
be you plug him on this year's Orlando Magic team.
They are by far and away the best group of
players he's ever taken the floor with and it's not
even closed.
Speaker 3: That is true for about seventeen games. That'd be amazing,
and then he won't be able to play for the
rest of the year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, would.
Speaker 1: You Let's just say he becomes available, and we did
talk about all the challenges involved of adding an expensive player. Sure, Lando,
investigate the Devin Booker stuff or is that just if
you want Franz? Would you can be would Franz be
a non starter in a Devin Booker trade for you
as opposed to Suggs.
Speaker 2: See, I'm actually open to moving funds. I am.
Speaker 3: I know that sounds sacrilicious for Magic fans, but I'm
open to it. The three even before he started reworking,
it was never that good. And you need that shot
if you're him, like you really do, especially playing alongside Paulo,
Like even Jalen is not the best natural shooter. So yeah,
I would. It's Devin Booker man, like, yeah, obviously, an
he's the issue I would have.
Speaker 2: There is who starts at the one? Who's the who's
the league guard? There is?
Speaker 1: Do you think if you have him and Pollo you
need you could find a one? But do you think
if you have Devin Booker and Powloll that you need, Like,
doesn't that kind of change the scope of who you're
one can be?
Speaker 3: Or no, no, no no. So here's the thing. Yeah,
that's fair. Here's my take on it. We've seen Devin
Booker try to be pitche and told into Okay, you're
gonna be the default playmaker. We've also seen Orlando try
to run their offense through alternate means that you know,
traditional point point guard is a little bit of an
a tiring way to describe it, but I think it
fits here. I'm just out on that, like, it's time
for Book to be freed up as a score far
more it's time for Powlo also to be freed up
more as a scorer, Like, yes, it should there be
inter plight between them, absolutely, of course. And can Book
run several pick and rolls every single game? Yes, I
still think they need a real ass floor leader who
and set all those guys up.
Speaker 1: Right, But if you're getting a den and I think
I agree to some extent with that, because if you
have like Devin Booker, this year didn't have Paalo Bin Carrol,
Palo Bank Carroll didn't have Devin Booker, right, so, but
even if you're saying they need a one right now,
Like that's the difference between saying they need a Kobe Whider,
they need a Tias Jones, or like someone who could
just come in cheaper and organize things.
Speaker 3: See it's funny because obviously the sun sucked and they
did have both Devin Booker and Highest Jones. But I'm
not necessarily out on that pairing whatsoever. Under different circumstances,
like if book ended up in Orlando somehow and Tyas
followed suit, I'd be into it.
Speaker 1: Booker has three years, one hundred and seventy one point
two million dollars left time, So you're not giving if
you're not giving up for no, I mean, if he
wanted out, I think we all agree it'd be you
contact Houston first. We all know that, but that'd be
a fun name. Another name that'd be interesting if the
heat were blowing things up. He's kind of cheap relative
to own of the league is going Tyler hero two
years and sixty four million dollars? Would you feel about that.
Speaker 3: Much better playmaker this year? I think he took a
real step up in that department. Is it enough to
like become the primary perimeter initiator.
Speaker 2: Not sure.
Speaker 3: Again, I feel like going for shooting guards might not
be the best ankle to this. I do feel as
though you need to go traditional ones, but I wouldn't
hate it because, again, as you pointed out, the compensation
level is fairly modest. He's obviously improving. He's always taken
some sort of improvement leap. By the way, why is
it that everyone still packs him as like a future
six man? It's just just because he shoots a lot.
I've seen so much of this over the past forty eight.
Speaker 1: Hours because he said he needed Jimmy Butler to win
or something, which I take is more of a shot
at bam Adebaio than than Tyler Hero.
Speaker 2: But no, but I'm like, what are we doing here?
He's obviously a starter.
Speaker 3: I mean I'm interested, But again, does archetype you know,
fix a lot of these things in Orland. Maybe I'm
not rolling it out, but when push comes to shove
in the playoffs and you're gonna need someone to handle
the ball, protect the ball, create high percentage looks and
in very tight half court offense executions, is a Tyler
Hero and Paula Bankaro you trust to facilitate those to
create those. I don't know the answer to that, but
I'm kind of leaning now.
Speaker 1: Well, then I guess that gets interesting because then names
like zach Lavine, Malik Monk, Anthony Simon's one year, twenty
seven point. Everyone's been trying to send Anthorty Simons to
the Magic for like three years now, yep. And I
mean even for what you're describing, Kobe White is not that.
Speaker 3: Right, but he's cheaper for and for now, and you
can get him for cheaper as well, because the Bulls,
well they're probably gonna lose him, right, they can't extend him,
so that this price tag is why I'm interested in
Kobe here, because you have to give up a ton
for books, you have to give up a ton for
hero you have to give up a ton also for
like the good traditional ones out there. Kobe White is
in a situation where the bulls can extend him. We
also know they're horrible negotiators, and that's not even a
joke that we've seen it. I mean, that's that's the thing.
So like there's a world out there where Orlando can
go in sort of fleece them a little bit in
the trademarket to get them. I think that carries some weight,
and also because it's so easy to match salary. I
agree with you that Kobe doesn't fit, you know, the
narrative of like a Tias Jones archetype for example. Absolutely.
I will say he's gotten better as a playmaker. I
will say he's gotten better as a defender too, for
that matter, and then we're kind of seeing when he's
like the primary guard, he levels up, and that's like
a consistent pattern. I don't know I'd be willing to
roll the dice on it, because I don't think you
relinquish all that much to go get him.
Speaker 1: Do you think there are a lot of there or
any or how many of their offensive issues do you
think could be resolved if let's say that the trade
for the type of floor general or reguard that you're
talking about isn't out there, should they be investigating Like
the Norm Powells, he's on an expiring contract at twenty
million cam Johnson deals declining two years, forty three million.
Even if Michael Porter Junior becomes available in Denver for
some reason, He's got two years and two years and
seventy nine millions. A lot. Cam Johnson is the name
that I kind of stick on where it's if you
told me that wasn't the only move. I don't know
that I would love it, but like that just just
to get someone in there who can open up the
floor for what ball handlers they have in place right
now and doesn't Maybe it branks some of the bank
of your asset stash, but it's not going to break
the bank financially for you. That'd be a name if
i'm them, that I'd at least be interested in.
Speaker 3: I love Cam Johnson, and I understand that we are
in an age where positional list basketball is a thing,
But where the hell will he play alongside Franz and Paolo?
Speaker 1: Like you could just play the three of them together,
like sometimes maybe polows the big But I think if
you have Wendell Carter Junior as the center, if you
bring in another center, I think that could Like we've
just seen it, like we've seen the Magic play ultra
huge enough for me to believe that that something like
that could work.
Speaker 3: I guess, but maybe we're also maybe we should ask
the question, like is that necessarily the way forward?
Speaker 1: No, I said, as the move, I don't think that
that's the way exactly.
Speaker 3: And Norman Powell, first and foremost, fuck you forgetting me
to criticize Norman Powell right now, because I'm gonna I
have to.
Speaker 2: He's not a ball handler.
Speaker 3: Like I love him as a player, I absolutely love him.
Speaker 2: But he's in the right role as he is with
the Clippers right now.
Speaker 1: Right But what did I say about him handling the ball?
I said, if they weren't going to get.
Speaker 3: That, they weren't going to get that. But like, where again,
then why bother?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 3: Like he's just gonna play off of everyone else? Like
what again, Well.
Speaker 1: He's got something like he's got straight line juice to him.
We saw he's got creation juice this year. So you're saying,
you're blaming me for criticizing normal, yes, Norman Powell. But
you're actually levying unjust criticism at Norman Powell.
Speaker 2: So that's I am.
Speaker 3: Look, that's why. Yeah, Look, he doesn't solve their issues.
That's the thing. They need someone to be able to
handle the ball, get into the defense, break guys down again, Norman.
Norman Powell is great as like the third guy on
a team, like the third score where everything kind of
lines but it has to be the right setting. If
Powlo and Franz are the main you know, playmakers, I
hate Norman Powell right there. I don't think that's the
right approach because I don't think they are good enough pastors.
I do like we complement Powlo and France for their playmaking,
and yes, but it's in the context of the positions
that they play, Like, let's be real, they're not elite playmakers.
And I think to Norman Powell's, well, how do you
put this? I think he's benefited greatly from playing next
to James.
Speaker 1: What do you how do you feel about I do
think you're kind of like glomming onto the idea of
like this guy needs to be just like a traditional
point guard, and I feel like hollow and if you're
gonna keep fronds, give you more optionality like Anthony Simon's
to me, I don't know if he'd be my favorite target,
but that's someone who could come in and because you
already have some of the secondary playmaking, Kay, you can
get into teeth of defenses and then just hit threes.
I don't like that's he's the furthest thing from a
traditional point guard. But I think that that would be
in terms of a single acquisition, realistic single acquisition that
comes like pretty close to papering over a bunch of
their their issues right.
Speaker 3: Well, so it might not have to be a traditional
point guard. It can't be a combo. I think with
Powell though, he's not even a combo, Like he is
a straight onto. He is he knows who he is, right,
He's more of an off ball guy cutting like, yeah,
you're absolutely right, the straight line drives.
Speaker 2: He's got those. He's never been herkie jerky.
Speaker 3: And I think Kobe White, Anthony Simon's, Colin Sexton who's.
Speaker 2: On the list as well.
Speaker 3: Those guys can at least get defenses off like off rhythm,
so there's there as there they can get to even hell, like,
I don't support this, but like sec lavenis also that dude.
He can also bend defenses in many ways.
Speaker 1: But he was cheaper. If he wasn't making so much,
I think he'd be really Yeah.
Speaker 2: He'd be a great fit.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, you need someone
at the point or at the lead guard. I just
I don't think it sucks. I don't think it's Powell.
I don't think it's wrong if if Orlando goes into
next season with those three guys and no one else
and says, all right, those three guys are primary playmakers.
Speaker 2: Look, they're gonna be in for a world of hurt offensively.
Speaker 1: Any other names that you want to discuss or add
to the list. There were some Jamal Murray like speculation.
That's again you run into he just sign the max extension.
I really can't see the playoffs. I don't know what
would have to happen for me. Just had a forty
burger after we're recording this. I just don't know what
would have to happen for the Nuggets to want to
break up the Jamal Murray Nicola Jokic.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you didn't add Trey Young to that list
because again, the salary concerns there. But you know, he's
been brought up a ton, and I get why.
Speaker 1: Hi. This year's version of him would probably be a
better because he wasn't so ball dominant. But I don't
want someone if I'm the magic in here, who is
going to be You want them to be able to
play off the ball more than we've seen Drey Young
ever play off the ball.
Speaker 3: Yeah, You're absolutely right. He's not the greatest bought up shooter.
And I think that's the challenge because the archet type
that we're kind of trying to bring into Orlando, either
he's not available or he doesn't exist. That's that's the thing, Like,
who is that guy who can take over like the
Tier one playmaking but also shoot off the ball? Look,
the only guy that comes to mind is Steph And
that's like unrealist for Dame two. Yeah, sorry, that's true,
Dame two.
Speaker 1: What also worries me? I don't think they would do this,
but it'd be funny if they actually make like an
ultra big swing. But with the way that this front
office like looks at things and it ends up being
John Morant, where's like, oh, we're gonna go with the
athleticism rather than prioritizing the shooting here, I would hate
it too. I want I'm not advocating for it'll be
funny if everyone's been pushing the magic to We're not
even saying they need to make a blockbuster, but I
think a lot of people just want to see them
make this huge splash. It would be hilarious if if
they do, and then it's just like so counterintuitive to
what they need. Now, we did go over their cap situation,
which is a little bit sticky. So if you're looking
at free agents, you're probably looking at sign and trades
or can you access the non tax payer mid level.
You'd have to clear some money to do that. Any
names on the market that like the list we have here,
and I think we go There's Malik Beasley, Malcolm Brogden,
ty Jerome Tyas Jones, Chris Paul Duncan, Robinson has an Eto,
D'Angelo Russell Moore already mentioned him, Dennis Shruder, and then
Fred van Fleet has a team option. I like Fred
van Fleet a lot for what he could do off
the ball, but I think they probably need if you're
gonna go that route, probably want someone who's a better
just like use that with Norman Powell's not creating advantages
for others. Fred van Fleet is not as limited in
that respect, but he's pretty limited for a point guard.
Speaker 3: So your second name on that list is interesting, pending health.
Malcolm Broughton again, and that's the big thing with him
with health, right, but in an optimal world where he's
healthy just for sixty games, he would be such a
perfect fit there because he actually does many of the
things that we're talking about off ball, on ball defense,
can rework, can work himself into virtually every lineup. I
genuinely believe that if Malcolm Broughton had stayed more healthy
over the course of his career, he'd been the shooting
guard version of Al Horford, just in terms of how
he can bend himself into so many different positions. That
sounded dirty, not in my attention, but you know what
I mean. And for him to come into a young
Magic team on a much lesser yeah, unlesser compensation level,
that was the word I was looking for, that'd be
such a great get. I don't know what he's gonna
get in the open market, especially because of his injury history.
If they can get him for virtually nothing, sign him
the f up because at least you have a stop
gap for a while and or at least until he
goes down with an injury. I don't hate that acquisition
at all. If the if they go get him.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be curious see what he gets to and
whether what the Wizards might decide to, like use his
bird rights to keep him. But I don't like we're
talking about this right now. The Captain Landscapes is such
that who's coming in with a non taxpayermid level for
Malcolm Brockton, Is he gonna end up being like a
mini mL E type guy? For all we know at
this point, it's probably possible.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't rule that out.
Speaker 1: Uh, if you're gonna go after shooting again, I'm aware
for anyone. Like I know that Elie Beasley and Duncan
Robinson aren't point guards, but if you want, dudes can
come in and just kind of flamethrow from beyond the arc.
I wouldn't hate Chris Paul here though. Let's just like
the Aaron Fox and Steph Castle are in San Antonio.
Chris Paul wants to be on a contender. He shot
the three ball like the volume on his threes was
great this year, and he can still set up plays
getting into the teeth of defenses. He's not gonna cut
guys off mismatches, that's tough, but he would certainly come
in and be able to organize things, I think without
infringing upon like the functional existences of pala war frons.
Speaker 3: If there's a guard out there that doesn't need to
get into the teeth of the defense to break guys
down and still be able to deliver pass.
Speaker 2: It's just still Chris freaking' Paul.
Speaker 1: So you know that it is not mil Bridges despite
how he played. Just in case anyone's under.
Speaker 3: So, like, yeah, he would be interesting. Is he interested
leaving San Antonio? It's like the Again, I'm not trying
to say I have sources on this because I have
no idea, but it felt like to me that he
was when I spoke with him, that he was just
so in tune with the Spurs.
Speaker 2: He loved it. There.
Speaker 3: Again, that could be pr fodder, That could be him
just saying the right thing. I have no idea, but
it did seem like he genuinely enjoys the Spurs experience.
Does he want to hang on to like after what
they've done, like or aligned them to this season or
this summer?
Speaker 2: Rather, we don't know.
Speaker 3: He'd be a great gut You have Duncan Robinson on
the list, which I think is interesting, like just basically
as a straight on off ball guy.
Speaker 1: Is that you're thinking, Yeah, I mean he does some
stuff inside the arc. Now the magic just don't have
the space thing to actualize it. But they need, and
I guess Jet Howard support, but like they don't have
that guy that can just come in and get shots
up like flying around screens or get him up in volume.
And if Duncan Robinson's the like exercising his ETO, I'm
assuming he's taking a pay cut just over like a
longer period of time now, And I think the magic's
like half court offense. Some of the stuff we saw,
like away from the ball for them when they were
closer to full strength, makes me believe that they would figure
out how to utilize him. But he's still even more
so than Malik Beasy, Like you need someone to set
him up. And while you do have Pollow and Franz,
the entire point of this exercise was kind of to
figure out, well, how do we upgrade like that spot
and Duncan Robinson or Malik Beasley or Norman Powell to
circle back to that, that feels like the move after
you make the caps lock move.
Speaker 3: See now at being on Norman Powell after you make
the caps luck move.
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
Speaker 3: I think that's a good way to phrase it, Like
you have your priorities in place, right if you do
get that guy who can go in and handle the
offense a great deal.
Speaker 2: Then that's when you go out.
Speaker 3: And find like the guys who benefit from that, And
in that case, Norman Powell would be extremely high on
my list.
Speaker 1: What do you think of Like if you were then
would you consider taking a flyer on someone who's more
unproven or like, let's let's just say there's a mega
trade happening read Shepherd's being traded, but the Magic have
the ability to go in and like acquire him as
part of that, or are you looking for a more
I think I love Reach Shepherd, but just I think
I need a more bankable option here for that. I
think he's gonna be really good, and they could certainly
insulate like all of his defensive struggles, and I think
he still might be fine on that before long term anyway,
I guess maybe I also don't trust like the code,
Like are they gonna give him enough minutes like they
seem to They gave Tristan to Silva a ton of
minutes out of the gate because they had to, and
also because he's someone who can theoretically defend. They've seem
to like hold back on other dudes that can't theoretically
defend or might struggle on that end, But I like
my point might right about way of asking, does it
have to be more of just like a veteran or
would you consider rolling the dice on like maybe a
not a reclamation project or necessarily a second dream But
even someone not young but like Todd Jerome is super
unproven when we're looking at this, but he would be
a somewhat intriguing fit here too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what you're asking me is what I roll the
dice on someone who isn't as established to a lot
of guys. Yeah, look, I mean again, it depends on
the player and depends on how I feel about that guy.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I meant as the move though, not as
like this is the only move we're ever gonna make.
But it's because you could look at Ti Jerome and say, well,
or let's say you just look at plugging a youngster
in there and say, well, if we got a veteran
in who could play in front of him or something.
But as just like the solution, like they're coming in
and saying Ti Jerome is our starting one or Reed
is our starting one.
Speaker 3: That's tough, right, I mean again, you'd have to be
you would have to go back to the draft boards
and figure out, like how high were we on this
guy during the draft time, Like how did we feel
about him? What were are internal projection projections for him?
You know, do we think under this, in this system
he can thrive? Like you have to ask yourself a
million questions. But if everything is coming up Millhouse, why
not why not try to go about it? I mean,
look read Shepherd, I think that might not be a
bad move. That could be one of those things where
it could look like a freaking steal a couple of
years from now.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: He's small, though very small. It's not just the height,
it's like the stature. He's not a big guy, and
it seems like Orlando has prioritized like size, positional size,
so for him, that would almost go against the grain
of what they're used to. But that also is kind
of interesting, Like if they're open minded enough to saying,
all right, you know what, we need to get a
guy and who doesn't necessarily fit our understanding of the
archetype that we always want.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't hate it.
Speaker 3: I'd probably if I'm a Magic fan, I'd probably look
at it and go, is that all we did?
Speaker 1: I have questions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what exactly happened? Like is everything we got was?
Speaker 3: Is that like a guy with a stash who averaged
like what four points per game this year?
Speaker 2: I don't even know what he averaged. I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I will say if they did do that, though, I
would instantly with him and Paolo on the same team
in Jo and Some's, I'd instantly just become an Orlando Magic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I had a feeling you would. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what name I didn't bring up. I
don't know how valiable he is because he actually seem
more important when you know the.
Speaker 2: LA in Europe. Stop pitching, Frank.
Speaker 1: All right, well, my next name on the list is
and his team makeup I think right now has set
up that they need him more than they did at
the start of this season. Weirdly a Manuel Quickly kind
of another big money name, but he's in the realm
of Joe and Suggs. He's not costing you a Max.
You know, that's not a Max guy.
Speaker 3: I'm still blown away by all the pushback he got
this year, or just the criticisms like he wasn't healthy.
Speaker 1: I don't He's never had like real practice time with
this team anymore like he came like they talked there's
a lot of people talking about defensive regression, and there was,
but you mentioned the injury. I also think like familiarity
is a part of that, and the Raptors play such
an aggressive style that you have a manual quickly a
healthy training camp. I think he would fit. I'm not
saying he deserved to be Defensive Player of the Year
All Defense at any point, but right now it feels
like we've veered towards too far of the negative. We
can never just exist in the happy medium space. Everything
has to be absolute. Apparently.
Speaker 3: Yea, look a guy who's in and out of the
lineup all year, and he wasn't like, oh he missed
a chunk here and that was it. Then he came
back and played every game like consecutively. No, it was
in and out of the lineup constantly. That is so
much harder than if it's just one long injury and
it's still I'm I'm just gonna say, I know raw
stats is not the way to go, but I'm look,
seventeen points per game in twenty seven minutes, almost six assists,
three and a half boards. He's always been a tremendous rebounder.
He got up almost seven triples per game in those
twenty seven well almost twenty eight minutes and for three FROs.
Speaker 2: Like, the guy's just productive.
Speaker 3: And I understand that in today's NBA sphere of analysis
and opinions, everyone wants the oh, look at that wing
who averages four points per game, but the wing span,
Oh my god, he can defend four levels. Yeah, that's cool,
but you also need guys who can just flat out produce.
Speaker 1: Come on, like, at some point, Paul George, you think
this is a Paul George team, Oh my god, you.
Speaker 2: Had to go there, You had to go there.
Speaker 3: Uh No, But like Emmanuel Quickly can fricking produce, like
he's shown that sometimes. I think even sach Lowe said
this a couple of weeks ago. At some point, you
just gotta put up stats. I think he was talking
about Dalan Terry or something like basically like, yeah, they
look fine, but like they had like one rebound or
two assists or something, and that was it. And at
some point you just got to do something. Emmanuel quickly
does something. He does something all the time, and yeah,
will there be areas where he's not perfect, absolutely, but
for Orlando specifically, Fuck, yes, I'm in. I just don't
consider him available. That's why I didn't even think about him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I don't even like if Toronto even won
the lottery, I think you could even then argue that
a macieal quickly becomes more important to that roster because
of everything he goes off the ball.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good shout on him. By the way,
that's a good name because he's actually like for what
we're talking about in terms of the archetype, he's pretty
close to it.
Speaker 1: Actually, he's actually I think of all the names that
we mentioned, and if you're looking for someone who has
a track record, yeah, does he come the closest to
just kind of checking all of the boxes in the
most significant fashion. Probably?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like not too too expensive, but not so cheap
that you're not gonna play him. And then okay he's
not your a plus playmaker, but he can do some
live drible things. Yeah, I would like that, And but
I don't know the magic due without putting fronds or
sugs on the table, like they still they don't quite
have Choose your own adventure trade assets, But like all
things are possible if you're gonna put enough on the table,
like they have the ability to like throw some flyers
and draft picks on the table, and maybe something happens
with Toronto over the offseason that sort of changes the
calculus of where they're headed. But I would agree with
you that I don't think Emmanuel Quickly's unavailable, But he's
also he's not one of those guys that are untouchable either, right,
I mean.
Speaker 3: Look, Orlando or sorry, Toronto absolutely has needs. They need
more small forwards obviously, because that's just the way they're
they're building their teams. Apparently now they need to start
five small forwards. I think they have three out of
four or three out of five at this point. So yeah,
what can Orlando give them their KCP? He's a three now, right,
he's not quick enough to be a two. There we go,
KCP for Emanuel Quickly. Get everything you need, Toronto, just wings,
just wings, wings for days.
Speaker 1: You just angered in an entire nation. Congratulations, you got
anything else on the magic or are you ready to
tell our listeners where they can find you and all
the work that you do. Well?
Speaker 3: I think we're good. I mean it's the Magic. How
much can you really talk about them?
Speaker 2: At this day?
Speaker 1: We call them for forty five plus minutes, and they
are I really do believe that the Magic are like
a giant hiding in plane sight. But the problem is
is that like even their own front office apparently can't
see it. And that's the real thing, that's the real
issue here.
Speaker 3: My one of my Danish podcast partners's he's basically saying
he's said for a while, I don't think Orlando as
an organization should exist. And it's like every time I
talk about Orlando, I get him in the back of
my mind and he's and he's kind of as time
goes on, like first it was the organization, now it's this,
it's the city of Orlando should not exist.
Speaker 2: I'm just waiting for him to branch into Florida.
Speaker 3: Like I actually do think there's a lot of excitement
going on around this team. I signed them pretty exciting myself,
as long as they don't go into these droughts of
these slock fests where it's like, oh, we're going to
average eighty one over the next three games, Like no, yeah.
Speaker 1: They're out of it. We didn't talk about this nearly enough,
Like they're out of excuses. There's no more waiting on
like maybe this guy pops, And like the offense, no,
there's just I know you had injuries, but like we
now have. You've lost in the playoffs two years in
a row, exactly how everyone expected you to agree it
was the Celtics. You put them through hell defensively, but
like your offense is just so constantly operating in the muck,
and there's no more excuses. And I don't think it's
I don't necessarily think it's the problem of any one
player on the roster. It's just that this collection of
talent very clearly needs one or two very specific types
of other talents to be optimized.
Speaker 2: Right. You know what's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be in three years, because that is the
length that they gave Vooch, Aaron Gordon and Evan forty.
They gave them six seasons together to see if something
magical would happen.
Speaker 2: It didn't, obviously, it just ended on a dud.
Speaker 3: But I think that like I will give them this,
to give a core that many years together to see
if they can figure it out, shows patience. That is
something that a lot of teams could learn from because
they are like two quick on the trigger to get
out of a situation. So it's gonna be interesting to
see how Orlando bo stays the cores with the current
nucleus and how they add to it.
Speaker 1: More. Tell everyone where they can find you and all
your work, please.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find me over at blue Sky at
MSJ NBA, where I share links from Yahoo, from Forbes,
and from the Danish podcast and of course the one
in English that you're listening to right now as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, but you do not share links to the NBA
pot Yes, what is that about?
Speaker 3: You know what that is? Because you are quicker than me.
It's the same file, So I just repost.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you publish before I do, though, so that's also.
Speaker 3: I know I'm look if you really actually, I'm actually
lying to everyone because I always forget to go in
and and attach my links to Forbes, for example, and
I even think I'm like behind on three articles or
at Yahoo. So I have to do a lot better
of just pimping my work. I'm just too busy doing
a lot of stuff. I'm too busy working and podcasting
with you, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: What though, you're not watching basketball clearly with some of
these takes.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, okay, mister cant.
Speaker 2: That oh man, all right, all right.
Speaker 1: Until next time and as always with you with the
shout out to the one, the only, the one player
who actually can fix Orlando Magics problems across the board,
mister Frank siver Kei Rack