WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:08.480 Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Ruby Rogues podcast. 2 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:10.960 This week, on our panel we have Valentino Stole. 3 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:11.839 Hey. 4 00:00:11.880 --> 00:00:16.160 Now, I'm Charles Maxwood from Top End Devs, And this 5 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.160 week we have a special guest and that is Gustavo Vealnezuela. 6 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:22.800 I hope I got close the gifts. 7 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:24.559 So. 8 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:27.440 Yeah, So Gustavo and I had a conversation a little 9 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:29.640 bit ago. I think we met over LinkedIn, I want 10 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:34.640 to say, and yeah, I ran across startup Startups on 11 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.280 Rails and I was like, hey, this looks cool and 12 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:38.880 I wanted to know what he was doing with it. 13 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.439 So we had a chat about it. And I think 14 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:45.039 you're probably better to tell people what it is than me, 15 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:47.039 so I'll let you take it from here. You want 16 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.359 to just tell people kind of a little bit about 17 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:52.000 your background and then what Startups on Rails is and 18 00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:53.119 what you're hoping to do with it. 19 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.520 Of course, thank you, Charles, I appreciate you. First, Like 20 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.200 I said, thank you for allowing me to be year 21 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:02.399 in your podcast. This is my first one, so I'm 22 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:06.120 excited hopefully the first of many. Yeah, this is like 23 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:09.159 the only type of interaction that we get amongstvelopers right 24 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.959 low for seems to be a very lonely, lonely professional 25 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:16.159 So podcast is a good way. 26 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:18.760 Unless your boss is overly involved in what you're doing, 27 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:20.920 probably won't never mind. 28 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:26.239 Yeah, yeah, so yeah, Like you said, I I've been 29 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:28.120 working on the start of some rails for a while. 30 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:32.840 I am a movie on rails developer, so I am. 31 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:34.760 I guess you can consider. 32 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:36.359 Me a new. 33 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:40.719 A movie or a how do they call it that, 34 00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:45.159 the new career or forget the term that they use. 35 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:49.200 But pretty much I've been uh, I haven't. I'm in 36 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:50.120 the proces of trying. 37 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.760 To get into into into a full time employment. I've 38 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.719 had a few a few contracts here and there, but 39 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:00.319 you know, getting full time. But I've been doing un 40 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.560 rails actually since twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. That was the 41 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.719 first time I learned about rails through a boot camp. 42 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:10.400 The first time around, I kind of just wanted to 43 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:12.919 learn so that I can build my own products. That 44 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:17.680 was my original goal, and so I you know, I 45 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.039 did the boot com and then tried a few different 46 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:22.599 things didn't really work out. I got distracted in other 47 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:28.400 areas so kind of abandoned development up until. 48 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:31.199 I think it was the beginning of the pandemic. I 49 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:32.599 don't know if it was before or after. 50 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.919 Picked it up again, tried to you know, get good 51 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:41.919 at it, trying to kind of learn that the holes 52 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:45.240 that I had from the first time, and that went well, 53 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:48.919 and then the pandemic hit us and there was all 54 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.199 these layoffs. So I was, oh, my goodness, I came 55 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:58.120 back to development for nothing. But I started, yeah, that's crazy. 56 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:02.960 So I kept with the it and then I, you know, 57 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:06.280 because there weren't a lot of listings or jobs, I 58 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:11.280 wanted to kind of find out what what the rublen 59 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:13.840 rails companies in the area. Even if they I figure, 60 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.800 if they don't have a posting a job posting, I 61 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:19.439 could always reach out to them and try to you know, 62 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:22.599 get a connection going. And uh, I found out that 63 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:26.360 there wasn't any place that I could uh see what 64 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:30.000 companies were built on rebolion rails, so I can reach 65 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:32.400 out to them, and pretty much only the ones that 66 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:38.639 post job opening. So I decided to kind of start 67 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:43.439 building my own database on my own uh huh. And 68 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:46.479 so I figured, you know, I could use that, but 69 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.759 this could also be something that other people in the 70 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:54.960 community could use. So I found the uh the the 71 00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:59.439 domain start off some rails dot com and I started 72 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:03.759 to build that as a database, just a docommentation of companies. 73 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:04.879 Built on rubies and rails. 74 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:07.719 And so, you know, I started sharing with the community, 75 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.319 decided to get some engagement with the community. I got 76 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:15.199 some feedback and people liked the product, so I, you know, 77 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:22.240 kept building it, and actually I stopped for bid and yeah. 78 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:23.879 I stopped for a while. I stopped building it. So 79 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:24.800 now I'm back. 80 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:28.040 I've been building it like for the last couple of 81 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.319 months to make it into a full on project that 82 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:36.360 people could use. That's kind of my story more or less. 83 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:42.800 My father, two girls, a husband, and Ruben Rael's developer. 84 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:49.639 Awesome. Yeah, being a girl dad's fun. I think Valentino 85 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:51.519 has kids too, but I don't know if he has 86 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:52.160 girls or not. 87 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:54.000 I've got one. 88 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:59.920 Yeah, I have three and two boys. So but yeah, 89 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:03.360 so the way we could talk about girl daddy, but 90 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:08.560 that's that's a whole different thing. So yeah, So first 91 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.920 of all, I'm just kind of curious because I love 92 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.600 the idea. Right, It's like, who's who's out there using rails? 93 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.240 How do you start figuring out what companies actually use rails. 94 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.600 I mean some of them are kind of I guess 95 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:31.519 well known, right there's you know, base camp or Heroku 96 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:35.800 or get hub. I think Airbnb was started on rails. 97 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:39.240 And then I also am aware that like companies like Twitter, 98 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:41.639 you know, they started out using rails but then kind 99 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:45.439 of migrated to I think it's a mixed stack. They 100 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.600 probably have rails in there somewhere still because it's hard 101 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.480 to get rid of a technology once you adopted. But 102 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:52.920 I know that a lot of their stuff went to 103 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:55.600 Skala and stuff like that, and so yeah, how do 104 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:58.199 you decide who's on the list and how do you 105 00:05:58.240 --> 00:05:59.560 figure out who's using rails? 106 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:03.920 Yeah, so that was a challenge, challenging situation in the beginning. 107 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:06.519 So my first approach was. 108 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:10.560 To kind of manually get as many as I could 109 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.600 on my own and then reach out to the community 110 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:16.040 and do some type of outsourcing or crowdsourcing and get 111 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:20.160 people to kind of sub meet there either companies that 112 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:24.560 they work for or their own projects or companies they know. 113 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:31.560 And that worked to a certain degree, but you know, 114 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:35.360 I got a couple of hundred companies that way. So 115 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:37.800 what I'm doing now is I'm trying to do some 116 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:43.560 scraping and looking through different websites and listings and things 117 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:49.720 that ultimately I think there's about seven hundred thousand website 118 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:51.600 built on rooven rails. 119 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:52.079 I believe. 120 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:55.680 So that's gonna be a challenging task. So I'll take 121 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:59.800 any any ideas or imput from the community. 122 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:03.160 Is there a way for people to submit Hey, we 123 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:05.279 use rails right, yes. 124 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:05.759 Yes, yes, yes. 125 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.680 Usually what I do right now is I periodically, I 126 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:12.879 you know, post a tweet or x and ask people 127 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:18.720 to to give me some ideas. I should have built, 128 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:24.000 um hm, something where people can submit on my on 129 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:25.519 the website, but I haven't. 130 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:26.040 Built that yet. 131 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:28.879 Yeah, but so. 132 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:31.439 Far it's just really through Twitter. 133 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:35.319 They use rails at doc Simity, don't they, Valentino. 134 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:38.480 Yeah, we do pretty heavily. 135 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:42.040 Medicine. 136 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.120 Okay, Yeah, I noticed that there's a number of medical 137 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:53.680 companies or startups that I use rails, at least a handful. 138 00:07:53.720 --> 00:08:00.839 I've seen a pretty big startups. Yes, this reminds me of. 139 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:02.959 So. 140 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:05.199 I don't know if you know, but Andy Kroll has 141 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:11.560 recently like published using rails dot com. Yes, I do 142 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.959 like kind of how you how the layout of your 143 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:15.680 site works? 144 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:19.040 Though? Uh, where are you like. 145 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:24.079 Pulling information from that data sources as well, or uh. 146 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:33.320 I'm pulling in information from a lot of different sources. Yeah, 147 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:33.919 and I do know. 148 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.759 I mean he's one of the tan that just recently 149 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:40.240 popped up. 150 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:47.200 Right, I know there's so many now Yeah, yeah, I 151 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:58.120 guess where like where does this like? Uh, I guess 152 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:02.240 I'm trying. Like the design this is awesome. I wish 153 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:04.320 I had seen this, to be honest, like so many 154 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:08.399 times in my career, right, being able to filter it 155 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:12.639 by different things and tooling and things like that. Ah, Like, 156 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:17.200 how do you, like, how do you think about like 157 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.320 the consolidation of these different companies and. 158 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:31.159 You know, maybe what are your plans for it? I guess, yeah, 159 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.000 that's a good question. 160 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:35.240 So I just recently noticed that there's a number of companies, 161 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.120 So I kind of like, I don't want to build 162 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.480 something that's already you know, doesn't have a utility or 163 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.120 you know a lot of people are doing the same thing. 164 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:49.240 So I think there is opportunity to build on top 165 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:53.519 of these database right, to build features that could be 166 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:57.799 useful for a community, like I mean, the lowest hanging 167 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:04.759 tree is just categories, right, But also I want to 168 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:12.279 know I don't know, even categories that are more outside 169 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:15.559 of the typical categories, like I'm thinking companies that are 170 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.960 more active hiring unior developers, you know, or companies that 171 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:26.159 are more active supporting open source. That type of categorizing 172 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:31.759 I think, uh, just given the the users kind of 173 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:34.279 options as to who they would want to support, right 174 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:38.879 if in or or another category could be uh, you know, 175 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:42.600 the substitutes for the rail substitutes or rule substitute for 176 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:49.000 such and such a products. But uh, there's I think 177 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:54.159 opportunity to create content on top of that content targeted 178 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:59.679 towards not necessarily developers, but product product people or or 179 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:04.919 busines people. Ah, just marketing the tools and the framework 180 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:05.480 in general. 181 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:06.799 That's just one. 182 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:10.720 But I you know, I have a list of ideas 183 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:14.639 that I could build that I could build on top 184 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.360 of the the the database. 185 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:22.399 Yeah. 186 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.720 Another thing that I one of the things that I 187 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:30.480 want that I like to do is kind of get 188 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:34.320 involved with the developers in a company. So one of 189 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:37.279 the features that I'm working on right now is h 190 00:11:38.519 --> 00:11:43.240 adding the ability to for companies to list open source 191 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:49.159 that they're working on, so if and if they need 192 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:53.519 help with whatever open source. So but through that if 193 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:56.039 I'm a developer looking to connect with other companies, I 194 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:58.159 can go to the company see there if they have 195 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.200 some open source open source each I can you know, 196 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.879 start participating through that and maybe through that hopefully make 197 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:05.960 a connection with that. 198 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:12.360 With the company. If that makes any sense. I don't know. 199 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.639 There's a lot of things that I feel like could 200 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:18.000 be built on top of just the pure debase. 201 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:21.960 Yeah, you know, I love seeing that on the company view. 202 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:25.440 It would be really cool if you could like submit 203 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:28.879 like you know, a pull request right from the page 204 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:32.120 and say, hey, I'm I'm up. 205 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:33.480 I'd like to update. 206 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.759 The information here, like have a signing with GitHub kind 207 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:39.080 of thing so you can verify that they're like part 208 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:44.120 of that organization even, right. Yeah, Like it definitely like 209 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:51.120 feels like that's like what you could do. Like, ah, yeah, 210 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:54.559 I don't know, Like how do you That's the hard 211 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.799 part with like all of this stuff is like, you know, 212 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.559 it's just you, right, community, Like, you know, how how 213 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:06.480 do you get like the community involved in all of 214 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:09.919 these different sites that exist and guarded support? 215 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:10.559 Right? Like? 216 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:14.320 Uh, where where do you find like the most like 217 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:20.519 people want to like help contribute to so far? Uh? 218 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:23.080 You mean in my personal project or just in Enner 219 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:25.399 first start up on reels. 220 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:31.279 Yeah, you know where. 221 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:36.039 So I haven't really, to be honest, the last couple 222 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.960 of few couple of months, I haven't been interacting. But 223 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.039 that's a good question. I can ask the community as 224 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:46.879 to where a direction they would like for this to go. 225 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:51.279 But and then you're asking in terms of like having 226 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:58.159 people ah contribute to this project or is that the question, 227 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:02.240 or or just what people would like in terms of features. 228 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.840 I guess I mentioned in both, but I was more 229 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:10.559 like where people are are currently like interested in contributing 230 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:15.159 to add stuff like do you see uh, do you 231 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:17.679 see people are like you know, they reach out to 232 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:21.840 you about wanting to update specific things or it's a 233 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:23.200 pretty low volume at this point. 234 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:26.639 Yeah, to be honest, I haven't yet. I haven't really 235 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:31.559 lounged officially, so I haven't put it out out there. 236 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:36.159 But that is a good question. I haven't asked, I 237 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:41.399 haven't seen any I haven't had any requests. And also 238 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:45.799 the idea of maybe open sourcing this project sounds interesting, right, 239 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:51.600 so people can mhm, you know, contribute directly. That would 240 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:54.440 be a good idea. I would have to clean my 241 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:57.919 database it's a little embarrassing right now. 242 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.720 That's that's a story of like more than half my code. 243 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:05.120 It's like, oh, there's a ton of junk in here. 244 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:06.360 Yeah. 245 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:12.879 Yeah, so that's but that's an interesting idea, and it's 246 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:19.559 another another way to gain experience, right managing this open 247 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:21.120 source for it would be interesting. 248 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:27.000 Yeah, I'm also curious. So you mentioned that you wanted 249 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:29.399 to know what companies were kind of local to you 250 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:33.679 that were using rails you know, maybe for a job 251 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:39.840 search or something. But you know, and that kind of 252 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:45.960 appeals to me. I'm curious also just from kind of 253 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:48.000 the broader view, because a lot of people that I 254 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:53.799 talked to are how do I put it there, they're 255 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:56.440 kind of looking for their next position or their next 256 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:03.919 you know whatever, their next job. And yeah, it's just 257 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.440 you know, I think something like that would really help. 258 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.360 But also with all the layoffs and everything else, do 259 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.759 you see the rails market shrinking or growing or do 260 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:16.559 you have a feeling about that? 261 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.200 Yeah, I mean I just know that, but you're about 262 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:25.399 eighteen months ago. I have recruiters hitting me up. You know, 263 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:28.399 I wouldn't normally make it through the whole interview, but 264 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:31.399 right now, you know, I'm trying to buy and things 265 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.480 of that. It's hard. I mean, in terms of the feeling, 266 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:42.559 it doesn't feel like there's openings, you know. Yeah, yeah, 267 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:46.879 so I don't know if it's a good time if 268 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:49.279 the openings are there, and you just have to directly 269 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:52.600 kind of get in tight to the company and see 270 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.240 if you can get in that way, or they just 271 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:59.480 flat out no openings or no opportunities. But in any case, 272 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:04.079 it's always better to to try out different fighters, right 273 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:04.920 and your. 274 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:09.480 Yeah, well, and it's it's also interesting because I think 275 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:12.759 there are companies that use rails that could use the help, 276 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:16.279 but because of the way the economy is sitting right now, 277 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:20.599 it's you know, it's it's just hard for them to 278 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:24.599 be able to afford or justify the additional headcount. 279 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:24.839 Right. 280 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:28.599 It's not, hey, there's not work to be done. It's just, 281 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.240 you know, given the current state of things, we're not comfortable, 282 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:39.480 you know, making the commitment to pay another salary given 283 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.440 our you know, where we see finances going and where 284 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:48.319 we see the the economy going long term. Because yeah, 285 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:49.920 if you want to stay open, you kind of have 286 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:53.599 to plan ahead with your cash flow, and it's hard. 287 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:57.599 Yeah, yeah, it's it's just a matter of numbers, right, 288 00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:58.799 it's math. 289 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:00.519 Yeah. 290 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.240 Yeah, I think to me that you know that the 291 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:08.480 economy together with AI, which I've been using, you know, 292 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:11.759 the last few months, more and more, I do think 293 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:13.519 it makes developers way more. 294 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:14.799 Effective, right way more. 295 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.359 I know for me, it's says a feature that I 296 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:20.359 could sometimes taken two days to do, I can do 297 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.079 it in half a day, you know. And that's me 298 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.640 being like super careful, you know, looking at everything and 299 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.359 trying to analyze everything and not really knowing my way around. 300 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:36.079 But I think that it's a fact to me that 301 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:42.759 some that you know, needed two or three developers, maybe 302 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.559 not one developer can do it, and that's just a reality. 303 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:53.640 But yeah, I think a good way for developers like 304 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:58.000 that our unemployee, I think a good alternative is building 305 00:18:58.039 --> 00:18:59.880 your own products, right building. 306 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.400 I'm being this right you comment entrepreneurial? 307 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:06.279 Yeah, I agree. 308 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:13.839 Yeah, So how did you build this thing? What? Like, 309 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:15.880 what's uh what's the stack? What did you go with? 310 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:19.200 So Ruby and rails? That's what I've been doing for 311 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:22.200 a for a while. Fastest thing, you. 312 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.720 Know, are you using all the shiny new tools like 313 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:27.480 the all the solid stuff. 314 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:30.839 No, I haven't. I haven't even gotten into into that. 315 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:31.759 Wow. 316 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:37.119 Yeah, yeah, I feel like there's so much, so much everything. 317 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.640 I feel like that's one thing that's missing that maybe 318 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:47.079 some magic contributor out there will contribute. But like, just 319 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:51.480 like a all the features of reels, like pick them apart, 320 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:55.680 look at all the lists, like you know, editors, like 321 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.400 you know, drop down selects, forms, like all the different 322 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:01.759 things that you can do with it. Just like that 323 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:04.319 you can just see better because I feel like the 324 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:08.480 guides are a great start, but like it's more granular 325 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:12.400 that I want, right, Like I want okay, Like I'm 326 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.119 working on email stuff, like what features do I have 327 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:17.160 available in rails? 328 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:17.559 Right? 329 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.359 And I feel like there's so many just for email, right, 330 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.039 Like it would be interesting to see a visualization of that. 331 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.119 Uh so you're talking about like features in action mailer 332 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:35.240 and then there's also the other one that reads the emails. 333 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:38.519 Yeah, and even on a you know, a more scoped 334 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.960 level of like okay, like I have like a you know, 335 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.480 an active record model, Like what are all the features 336 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:47.319 that I can inject into this model? 337 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:47.920 Right? 338 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.000 Because I'm using active record as like a base class, right, 339 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.480 and like there's so many like DSL methods you could 340 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.480 use that are specific to that that would be nice 341 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.839 to just like kind of like the guides like have 342 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:06.359 a good like general overview of like associations and like 343 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:11.079 smaller pieces, right, but like, uh, I don't know, like 344 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.039 what about the more specific Uh you know, I don't know. 345 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.759 Yeah, yeah, in different use cases. 346 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:23.279 You know, it's I think it's like, yeah, is it doubles, 347 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:29.119 so you know, it's it's that is sort with frameworks 348 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.640 like grails, right, that it's so good for you because 349 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:33.799 it gives you everything. But on the other hand, it's 350 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.960 to you know, gives you everything. So there's tones and 351 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:42.279 tones and tones of features and uh, aspectude that are 352 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:43.519 you know, it's hard to know everything. 353 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:48.839 But I think that almost gets sold gets sold by AI. Right. 354 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:54.920 AI is good at scrolling through everything, and then we 355 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.680 just verify that it's indeed what we need. You know, 356 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:02.480 I think that's AI and real it's it's a good parent. 357 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:10.440 Would I would say that that is kind of true. 358 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.000 It depends on what they're training it on. Right, So 359 00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.480 like Action Mailbox was the other library I was trying 360 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:19.920 to think of, right where it effectively it goes and 361 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.960 it grabs the emails and then it essentially routes it 362 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:29.319 through something that's sort of like a controller, right, and 363 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.720 so then it does things with the emails, which I 364 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.079 think is really slick, right, And that's that's something that 365 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:37.920 I can think of a couple of use cases for. 366 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:43.799 But you know, I don't know if a lot of 367 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:46.079 people are using it, and so I don't know if 368 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:52.119 the code that they have fed into the AI large 369 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.279 language models to say, hey, this is a good you know, 370 00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:59.759 a good example of how to do this, right, because 371 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.000 it has to train it a bunch of times, and 372 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:05.319 so if you ask it for action mailbox code, it 373 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.279 may not be great, right, But if you're looking at 374 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.400 some of the more common stuff like active record and 375 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:14.200 a lot of the more common use cases that people 376 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:17.799 put active record to, I would imagine that that's probably 377 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:22.640 a lot more commonly gonna come up and be handled 378 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:23.359 well by. 379 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.279 You know, by. 380 00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.519 The large language models, right, because you're gonna you're gonna 381 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:36.519 have a zillion examples because everybody's using models. But even then, 382 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:40.640 like if there's some obscure feature that not a lot 383 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.480 of people use, even if it's a powerful one and 384 00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:46.640 could do good things for your app, it may not 385 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:49.640 opt for it because it's been trained over and over 386 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.759 and over again on how people actually solve the problem, 387 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:58.400 and so yeah, I can see where it comes in 388 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:01.160 and is helpful, but I think I think, yeah, the 389 00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:05.720 the less well used features your AI may not be 390 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:07.839 trained well enough to pick it up and give you 391 00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:08.279 the option. 392 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:11.240 Yeah. No, I agree. 393 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:14.799 I think you still need to be you know, knowledgeable, 394 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:20.359 but I think it's hard to keep all that overhead 395 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:21.400 in mind when your coding. 396 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:22.039 Wright's. 397 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:25.119 Yeah, so that's a good way to kind of like 398 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:29.039 I mean, AI that's well thinking of everything and drinking 399 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:34.400 it down and then verifying, right, we've verify it well. 400 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.799 Yeah, And I'm not saying that you're wrong to do it. However, 401 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:40.960