Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZY, Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 2: Thank you Madison. As we move into a Friday evening,
Speaker 2: it is Friday, February twenty first, and this is our
Speaker 2: I guess it's the third Friday of the month. I'm
Speaker 2: just looking at the calendar here. No, it's the Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's the third Friday of the month. We only have
Speaker 2: one more. So a week from tonight we will be
Speaker 2: beginning the celebration at Ramadan at sundown. By the way,
Speaker 2: on this a week from tonight, and then the next
Speaker 2: day we'll be March. Good evening everybody. My name is
Speaker 2: Dan Ray, and I am ready to take you all
Speaker 2: the way almost a Saturday morning. Rob Brooks back in
Speaker 2: the control room. He is responsible for getting all of
Speaker 2: you on the line when you want to talk to
Speaker 2: me or a guest, and we will start off with
Speaker 2: an interesting guest at nine o'clock, doctor John Friedman, a
Speaker 2: healthcare expert. We're going to discuss the layoffs at Mass
Speaker 2: General Brigham. That was a huge story. That is a
Speaker 2: huge story. We'll also talk at ten o'clock about the
Speaker 2: Trump administration one month in office. They basically have one
Speaker 2: month in the book and it has been a wild month,
Speaker 2: and so the question is how are the Democrats going
Speaker 2: to get their footing? They get their political footing against
Speaker 2: everything that Donald Trump is trying to do, and he
Speaker 2: does not let up. The pace has been immense. And
Speaker 2: then we'll have a twenty eighth hour tonight. Haven't figured
Speaker 2: out the topic yet, but I'm sure it'll be fun,
Speaker 2: that's for sure. We have four really interesting guests on
Speaker 2: four fairly interesting topics coming up during this hour, and
Speaker 2: we will start off by talking about this soon to
Speaker 2: be open, well not soon in the sense of next week,
Speaker 2: but we will have Boston's first Holocaust museum here and
Speaker 2: it will open across from the Freedom Trail in the
Speaker 2: fall of twenty twenty six, so it's a year and
Speaker 2: a half away. With us is Jody Kipnis. She is
Speaker 2: the co founder CEO of the Holocaust Museum. Jody, welcome
Speaker 2: to Night's How are you this evening great?
Speaker 3: How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing fine. I hope that you can give us
Speaker 2: a little bit of background in terms of how did
Speaker 2: the Boston's first Holocaust museum. We've never had a Holocaust museum,
Speaker 2: and the best of my knowledge, how is this coming
Speaker 2: to pass. What give us a little bit of the
Speaker 2: background on this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no problem, I'd be happy to. So it was
Speaker 3: back in really started back in twenty eighteen. I traveled
Speaker 3: to Poland with my partner Todd Ruderman, and a Holocaust
Speaker 3: survivor and it was my first journey and it was
Speaker 3: Todd's second journey to Poland. And it was really on
Speaker 3: the grounds of Auschwitz when we stood in front of
Speaker 3: his bunker, and when you travel with a Holocaust survivor
Speaker 3: to Aushwitz and somebody who has survived Aswitz, it really
Speaker 3: was very act full for us. And you know, he
Speaker 3: gave us a little bit of a challenge by saying,
Speaker 3: you know, now that you've heard my story, what are
Speaker 3: you going to do? We never thought Holocaust museum at
Speaker 3: all much. We never would have thought something on that scale.
Speaker 3: But you know, when we came back, we started the
Speaker 3: Holocaust Legacy Foundation, and one year later we were taking
Speaker 3: sixteen teams away to Poland on a very similar trip
Speaker 3: and experience that we were on. And then it was
Speaker 3: really you know, COVID the next year we couldn't travel
Speaker 3: with this fellowship that we had started. It shut it down,
Speaker 3: and we thought to ourselves. How can we make a
Speaker 3: much bigger impact and reach a much broader audience. And
Speaker 3: we really thought about, you know, a Holocaust museum or
Speaker 3: a center. And you know then we well, Boston must
Speaker 3: have one, and you know they have what we had
Speaker 3: a World War Two museum in Natick. I know there's
Speaker 3: one in Hudson. But you know what we started to
Speaker 3: think about was why not Holocaust a museum that's dedicated
Speaker 3: just to the Holocaust and Holocaust education. So we came
Speaker 3: up with this crazy, crazy, big idea. And here we are,
Speaker 3: you know, building a museum on the right across the
Speaker 3: street from the Freedom Trail.
Speaker 2: So where exactly when we think of the Freedom Trail
Speaker 2: is it's so long, where will the museum be located?
Speaker 2: Exactly precisely?
Speaker 3: So I'll tell you a museum is located diagonally across
Speaker 3: or will be located diagonally across from the Park Street church,
Speaker 3: and our neighbors are Usuffolk Law. And from the museum,
Speaker 3: if you're inside the museum in the first exhibit, you'll
Speaker 3: have a straight shoot right to the State House.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, sure, No, I picture it very well. I was
Speaker 2: in Auschwitz. I visited Auschwitz in the summer of nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty seven, and it left an incredible lasting memory of
Speaker 2: me and I have still specific remembrances of locations. And
Speaker 2: what do you think when we think of museums, oftentimes
Speaker 2: we think that there will be some artifacts, you know,
Speaker 2: besides pictures, I guess, and maybe videos and interviews with
Speaker 2: some of the survivors. And I know that some of
Speaker 2: that has been done. I think sixty minutes to a
Speaker 2: piece with some of the survivors where they have answered
Speaker 2: questions and been interviewed and they have it so it's
Speaker 2: an interactive opportunity where even though the survivors have now
Speaker 2: maybe or in many cases have passed, people can actually
Speaker 2: stand and ask questions of the survivors, you know, and
Speaker 2: through the miracle of videotape, actually feel as if they're
Speaker 2: having a conversation. Are you familiar with that sixty minutes
Speaker 2: report of a few years ago that was done so well?
Speaker 3: I am, and I'm really glad that you brought that up,
Speaker 3: because we are actually bringing that experience to Boston. It's
Speaker 3: dimensions and testimony. We're partnered with the usc show A Foundation,
Speaker 3: and we actually spent a week filming the survivor that
Speaker 3: inspired us to do something around Holocaust education. And because
Speaker 3: of our partnership, we will also have the opportunity to
Speaker 3: have other survivors within this hologram type experience. And also
Speaker 3: there's a liberator as well, so they'll be hearing from
Speaker 3: both sides. So yeah, we'll have a be about a
Speaker 3: fifty sixty person theater and we'll show a three to
Speaker 3: four minute film telling about the stories, showing where they
Speaker 3: grew up, talking about how they survived, and then the
Speaker 3: visitor will have the opportunity to directly ask a question
Speaker 3: to a Holocaust survivor. So if you think about when
Speaker 3: they brought Michael Jackson back to life with those holograms,
Speaker 3: that's exactly what you will see. It won't be a
Speaker 3: TV screen, there will be It will almost feel so real,
Speaker 3: especially when you're at that distance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see. I think most people realize what holograms are.
Speaker 2: There's a there's one hologram that I saw in which
Speaker 2: Elvis Presley sings and he sings a duet with Celine Dion,
Speaker 2: and of course they never stood on stage together. If
Speaker 2: you've seen that, or anyone who's seen that, you realize
Speaker 2: what can be done with videotaping with holograms, and to
Speaker 2: think that it will be able to sort of bring
Speaker 2: the Holocaust, the story of the Holocaust to such vibrancies,
Speaker 2: to such life. It's going to be for generations to come.
Speaker 2: That's that is for sure. How can folks get in
Speaker 2: touch with your organization? I'm sure there are people out
Speaker 2: there who would like to get involved, maybe like to
Speaker 2: support what's the Everyone has a website, so so how.
Speaker 3: You Yeah, folks would like to learn more about how
Speaker 3: they can contribute, get along or even receive our newsletter
Speaker 3: updates that will be coming available soon. They just have
Speaker 3: to go to our website and that's www. Holocaust Legacyfoundation
Speaker 3: dot org. Or if they can't remember that, it's www.
Speaker 3: Holocaust Museum Boston dot org and it will bring them
Speaker 3: to the same place. They can also follow the Holocaust
Speaker 3: Museum Boston on Facebook and on Instagram.
Speaker 2: That's great, well, Judy, thanks so much for sharing with
Speaker 2: us tonight. This is such an important development that it's
Speaker 2: something the city of Boston will treasure, I'm sure for
Speaker 2: generations to come. And thanks for your work on this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, and thank you for having all.
Speaker 2: Right, we get back. We're going to talk about sort
Speaker 2: of an interesting question, and that is there's a study
Speaker 2: out that shows some people when they get into relationships,
Speaker 2: they're hiding death from the hiding debt, debt, how much
Speaker 2: they're in debt from their partners. And we're going to
Speaker 2: talk with an expert about why that is something that
Speaker 2: is occurring and why it probably is not a necessarily
Speaker 2: good thing. My name's Dan Ray. This is Nightside. It's
Speaker 2: a Friday night talking about some more serious subjects tonight.
Speaker 2: We'll lighten up a little bit later on, that's for sure,
Speaker 2: but right now we'll take a quick break of me
Speaker 2: back on Nightside in just a couple of minutes.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the window World
Speaker 1: Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: Want to welcome Adriana okanyas Adrian and welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 4: How are you hi, Dan, I'm doing well.
Speaker 5: How are you go?
Speaker 2: Assume? A credit card analyst at US News and World
Speaker 2: Report and PARL, you did a survey or you did
Speaker 2: a survey in conjunction with US News and World Report,
Speaker 2: which found that there is what's called financial infidelity common
Speaker 2: among younger generations that almost thirty seven percent report that
Speaker 2: their partner hid debt debt from them. What's going on?
Speaker 2: I mean, that boggles my mind. I don't know how
Speaker 2: surprised you are at it, but it's astonishing to me
Speaker 2: that you ended that you end up in a relationship,
Speaker 2: a serious relationship, and you not have and you have
Speaker 2: not done sort of a done in Bradstreet on one
Speaker 2: another if you get my drinks right right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, that was very surprising what we found out
Speaker 5: that when we conducted the survey, we found out that
Speaker 5: financial infidelity was really common in younger couples. You know,
Speaker 5: thirty nine percent of respondents were between the ages of
Speaker 5: eighteen and twenty five when the financial infidelity occurred, and
Speaker 5: almost half were actually married.
Speaker 6: At the time.
Speaker 2: So obviously we're talking about hiding debt. Is it mostly
Speaker 2: college debt or is it? I mean, how do you
Speaker 2: have so much debt that your partner probably has never
Speaker 2: even acquired and said, oh, by the way, how much
Speaker 2: of that four year college degree and the graduate program
Speaker 2: you're in now studying you know, sociology amongst the early
Speaker 2: inc is costing you.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean it's an expensive class. Dwn.
Speaker 2: Yes, I guess it is. I yes, the trips to
Speaker 2: Mexico US run up along. So what sort of debt
Speaker 2: it's being hidden here? I hope it's not like debt
Speaker 2: from either a gambling problem or a drug problem. I
Speaker 2: assume this is legitimate debt that individuals have occurred.
Speaker 5: Yes, this is legitimate debt. And we did find out that,
Speaker 5: you know, one of the most common signs of the
Speaker 5: financial fadelity is when the partner was hiding, hiding those
Speaker 5: statements or those collections, you know, from those hidden accounts,
Speaker 5: you know, and many victims of the financial and fabelity
Speaker 5: didn't even know it was happening until it was too late,
Speaker 5: you know, And in hindsight, you know, the red flags
Speaker 5: are there a lot of the time, you know, unusual spending,
Speaker 5: you know, avoiding those money talks that you need to
Speaker 5: have with your partner. And we actually asked respondents as well,
Speaker 5: like what were some signs that you noticed specifically in
Speaker 5: your relationships, And several respondents said that they noticed that
Speaker 5: their partner was acting strange, distant. Another one said that,
Speaker 5: you know, it was a complete shock to them. That
Speaker 5: was actually a very common response that we found that
Speaker 5: so many respondents didn't know what was happening until it
Speaker 5: was too late.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, did you quantify? Again? I must tell you I
Speaker 2: did not read the report, and so I apologize for that.
Speaker 2: But actually it's sometimes it's an advantage for me to
Speaker 2: not read the report because then I asked the questions
Speaker 2: that I think most of my audience might be asking
Speaker 2: if they haven't had a chance to read the report.
Speaker 2: Did you quantify at all? How much debt? I mean,
Speaker 2: and we're talking about one thousand dollars? Are we talking
Speaker 2: of much much more? Tens of thousands of dollars which
Speaker 2: can easily you know, accumulate.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: We were not able to be able to pinpoint the
Speaker 5: exact amounts of the debt, but we did find that
Speaker 5: it was very common for the couple to be in
Speaker 5: debt and credit card debt in like the low thousands
Speaker 5: when the financial infidelity occurred. So it's not huge amounts
Speaker 5: of like ten twenty thousand, but it is it is
Speaker 5: a large amount, you know. And when respondents were asked like, okay,
Speaker 5: well when it comes to debt like this, like what
Speaker 5: did you do with your partner? Like how did you
Speaker 5: even confront the issue? You know, and so many of
Speaker 5: them said that, you know, what it led to either
Speaker 5: an argument. We actually even found out that almost forty
Speaker 5: percent of victims of the financial intidelity ended up separating
Speaker 5: from their partner once they found out.
Speaker 2: So this, this is a commitment breaker. This, this is
Speaker 2: something that fractious a relationship. Yike's okay.
Speaker 5: We found out that almost half of respondence said that,
Speaker 5: actually more than half, I'm sorry, it was about a
Speaker 5: combined sixty four percent said that the financial instidelity was
Speaker 5: just as upsetting or even more upsetting than romantic fidelity.
Speaker 2: Wow, what percent? And again I don't know the answer.
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer this question when you referred
Speaker 2: to partner's partners in this nage has a much broader
Speaker 2: definition than it once did. So what percentage of these
Speaker 2: folks were actually you know, married or you know or
Speaker 2: you could you could be just dating someone in half
Speaker 2: a partner And obviously there is if you break up
Speaker 2: with someone who you're dating, the implications of that, you know,
Speaker 2: are well effectually mostly but there's probably not a lot
Speaker 2: of financial implications. But if you're married to someone and
Speaker 2: if you've actually maybe invested in something like a home
Speaker 2: or for that matter, or an automobile, and it's and
Speaker 2: you're going to have to. It's going to cost the relationship. Boy,
Speaker 2: then again get expensive with the lawyers.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 5: We found out that as far as like the relationship status,
Speaker 5: Like when I talk about partners, forty eight percent of
Speaker 5: couples were married, thirty two percent we're living together and
Speaker 5: not married, and then about twenty percent we're in a
Speaker 5: relationship but not living together or married.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the inner relationships ones you can walk away
Speaker 2: from those a little more easily than you can from
Speaker 2: obviously a marriage or for that matter, if both of
Speaker 2: you are signatories on a rental lease or or if
Speaker 2: you have you know, the the more important, more formal
Speaker 2: the relationship, the greater the potential consequences. Is there any
Speaker 2: sort of a uh within those groups? So subsets? Were
Speaker 2: the married couples that they had the same percentage of
Speaker 2: financial infidelity as as folks who were just simply dating
Speaker 2: or are they all sort of similar in terms of
Speaker 2: this uh this problem? How put it like that?
Speaker 5: We found that it was a little similar across the board.
Speaker 5: You know, we wanted to make sure that we surveyed
Speaker 5: only victims of financial to deli and wanted to see
Speaker 5: what their relationships were like at the time that the
Speaker 5: infidelity occurred, you know, but we we did find that
Speaker 5: the most common in lengths of relationships that was going
Speaker 5: on with the couple was about one to two years.
Speaker 5: That's how long they were together when the financial fidelity occurred.
Speaker 5: So I don't know if.
Speaker 2: You talk to psychologists or whatever, but at what point
Speaker 2: would would would the experts advise that if you're in
Speaker 2: some beginning to get into a serious relationship with someone,
Speaker 2: that if they haven't sort of told you what their
Speaker 2: financial circumstances are, and if you tend not to, you know,
Speaker 2: unless you really believe what their financial circumstances are, how
Speaker 2: do you at what point do you approach the subject?
Speaker 2: And how are you sure that you're getting the full
Speaker 2: the full explanation, you know, all the good, the bad,
Speaker 2: and the ugly.
Speaker 6: I mean, this is one yeah, right, no, I asked,
Speaker 6: I totally get it. One piece of advice I like
Speaker 6: to give is that I encouraged couples to have those
Speaker 6: candid money talks.
Speaker 5: You know, have like a money date where you.
Speaker 6: Sit down and you kind of lay it all out
Speaker 6: and explain what's going on with your finances, because you know,
Speaker 6: relationships can get messy. You know, you're co mingling, you're
Speaker 6: bringing your lives together. You know, it's only fair that
Speaker 6: you're open and honest with one another. You know. We
Speaker 6: found that one of the most common reasons for the
Speaker 6: financial and fidelity was that the perpetrator felt like they
Speaker 6: had no control over their finances. They just kind of
Speaker 6: felt that they needed to feel more in control financially,
Speaker 6: and the way that they did that was by lying
Speaker 6: to their partner.
Speaker 2: Well, that's tough. Not a great way to start a relationship,
Speaker 2: that's for sure. How can folks find the article most easily? So,
Speaker 2: I'm sure people are going to be interested in reading it.
Speaker 2: What's the best way to get to find the piece?
Speaker 5: Sure, so if they just head on over to money do.
Speaker 7: Us news dot com, they'll be fine able to find
Speaker 7: the say, along with a lot of other amazing advice
Speaker 7: articles that we have, you know, specifically around uh finance,
Speaker 7: credit cards, and and everything else that anyone can be
Speaker 7: curious about.
Speaker 2: So Money dot US News and World Report dot com.
Speaker 6: Well, Money dot US news dot com.
Speaker 2: Oh great, making it simple money dot us Yes dot com. Okay,
Speaker 2: I like that, Adriana, Thank you very much. You've You've
Speaker 2: answered a lot of questions. I. We don't prescript these interviews,
Speaker 2: as people realize and as they say, I sometimes I
Speaker 2: just don't chance to read every one of these as
Speaker 2: as well as I should. But it allows me to
Speaker 2: ask questions because I might not have asked questions and
Speaker 2: gotten the information as much information out if I if
Speaker 2: I had read this article. This is fascinating. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for joining us, LUI.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Dan.
Speaker 2: All right, let's keep in touch.
Speaker 1: Thanks Adriana, Thanks Bie, You're welcome.
Speaker 2: We get back. This is also somewhat concerned, if it
Speaker 2: concerning if you work, bosses are keeping closer tabs on
Speaker 2: their employees than ever. We're going to talk with Betsy
Speaker 2: Alan Manning. She's a leadership expert and a keynote speaker
Speaker 2: and owner and CEO of Destination Workplace. If you are
Speaker 2: an employee, you need to stick with us right after
Speaker 2: the news and we will explain it all. This is an
Speaker 2: interesting article out of business inside or coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure a lot of you on this Friday
Speaker 2: night are at the end of a work week and
Speaker 2: you say I got the weekend. Well, let me give
Speaker 2: you something else to worry about. My guest is Betsy
Speaker 2: Alan Manning. She's a leadership expert, an author, and a
Speaker 2: keynote speaker, as well as being the owner and CEO
Speaker 2: of Destination Workplace. Betsy Alan Manning, Welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 4: Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: I understand that bosses are keeping tabs on people like me,
Speaker 2: employees now more than ever. What's going on this is
Speaker 2: this is an article that appeared in Business Insider that
Speaker 2: we're referring to. What's going on, Betsy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, employee surveillance is at an all times.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a horrible word. Employee surveillance.
Speaker 4: What it's called, Yeah, it's yeah. And the thing question
Speaker 4: we kind of need to be asking is our companies
Speaker 4: keeping people accountable or just keeping them paranoid at this point?
Speaker 2: Just remember this, Betsy, Betsy, you're not paranoid if they're
Speaker 2: really after you, You know that, right.
Speaker 4: Right, that's true. That's true now that we've had Since
Speaker 4: since twenty twenty, the demand for employee surveillance software grew
Speaker 4: fifty four percent and it's getting bigger from there. Whopping
Speaker 4: Seventy three percent of employers use recorded calls, emails, messages,
Speaker 4: and performance reviews, and thirty seven percent have actually used
Speaker 4: recordings to fire someone.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so you're saying that if you are on
Speaker 2: a company phone and you're having a conversation, now you
Speaker 2: realize that you're told that. Okay, you know your privacy
Speaker 2: is not what it is when you're at home. Everybody
Speaker 2: understands that. But if you're in a company phone, they
Speaker 2: can listen to your conversation.
Speaker 4: They can listen in, they can track your calls, they
Speaker 4: can track your especially when you are working on your computer.
Speaker 4: If you're a remote or hybrid role, they can track
Speaker 4: your keystrokes on your computer. They can track your mouth,
Speaker 4: whether it's moving or not. This is when we say this,
Speaker 4: this software is rising. It is a new micromanagement tool.
Speaker 2: Talk about big brother, this is big uncle or something
Speaker 2: like that. I mean, well, I can I get it. Look,
Speaker 2: anybody who would use uh employee equipment for stupid reasons
Speaker 2: for doing stupid stuff, well that's they're being stupid. But
Speaker 2: but I mean, if you're talking to a family member
Speaker 2: about some you know, personal issue, a family member who's
Speaker 2: sick or something like that, how do they how do
Speaker 2: they do all this I mean, let's say that there's
Speaker 2: a company of I don't know, take take a company
Speaker 2: of one hundred people, a thousand people, or ten thousand people.
Speaker 2: How many people do you have to have to follow
Speaker 2: what one hundred people are doing a thousand people or
Speaker 2: ten thousand people. I've hit people in companies now who
Speaker 2: are actually hired and are working as spies on their
Speaker 2: fellow employees. That is that as bad as is that
Speaker 2: as far as we've gone, we're going.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what did Hunger Games call them tracker jackers? I
Speaker 4: think that's the name that we should give them.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a traditional movie Go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, No, they're actually a lot of It is
Speaker 4: a software tool that will track Most companies are using
Speaker 4: it to track productivity with remote workers, so they want
Speaker 4: to know how productive they're being. They So what I said,
Speaker 4: the keystroke strikes that that they're inputting the time that
Speaker 4: they're on maybe a zoom call or zoom meeting with
Speaker 4: potential clients, that they want to make sure that they're
Speaker 4: actually on those calls. That they're software that can track
Speaker 4: that their software that can track their mouse movement. And
Speaker 4: what's funny about this is employees are getting around it
Speaker 4: by using fake work software. So we've got we've got
Speaker 4: both software coming up. Bosses use the technology to track productivity.
Speaker 4: Employees are using technology to fake productivity. This is the
Speaker 4: digital cat and mouse game of the workplace right now.
Speaker 2: Wow, talk about a brave new world. You know, it's funny.
Speaker 2: I speak for myself. I have a setup work remotely.
Speaker 2: I've worked remotely since twenty twenty once COVID hit as
Speaker 2: a talk show host, and I have tried to keep
Speaker 2: and have kept a really distinct separation between anything that's
Speaker 2: personal or anything that is dealing with the company, and
Speaker 2: I keep them separate. I have my personal desktop computer,
Speaker 2: so if I have to deal with anything that's personal
Speaker 2: or that that's on that, anything else is on the
Speaker 2: company at the same time. On my desktop I have,
Speaker 2: you know, in my job, one of the things I
Speaker 2: have to do is scan newspapers and scan news stories
Speaker 2: and all of that. I do a lot of that
Speaker 2: stuff on my personal computer, simply because it's easier. I
Speaker 2: have a you know, a subscription to the Boston Globe,
Speaker 2: but a subscription to the Boston Herald. So when I
Speaker 2: do that, when I'm actually working on my personal desktop, computer.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get credit for that on my
Speaker 2: lapaptop because I'm not doing it on the company laptop.
Speaker 2: That's kind of interesting.
Speaker 4: Not a Big Brothers watching you, you won't get credit
Speaker 4: for it at all.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want They'd brother watching me on my
Speaker 2: personal I mean, you know, I don't want I don't
Speaker 2: want big brother or big uncle watching me anywhere. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, I think you have to be
Speaker 2: smart enough to know that. And you know, I am
Speaker 2: not a gambler, but if you're gambling folks, you know,
Speaker 2: on football games, and you're using your company's computer to
Speaker 2: do that, you are leaving yourself open to being I
Speaker 2: think called on the carpet, yes or no.
Speaker 4: Betsy, Oh absolutely well. And now if they're using software
Speaker 4: now legally they need to less you know that they
Speaker 4: are installing the software. That's why employees have come up
Speaker 4: with these that fake work software that they can use
Speaker 4: in return. So, uh, you know, I think this is
Speaker 4: first of all, I think it's a little unethical as
Speaker 4: second of all, it doesn't work.
Speaker 2: A little, yes, a little. That's like being a little
Speaker 2: pregnant ethical. You're not.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: I can see when we were when we went fully remote.
Speaker 4: You know, at first, employers were saying, well are people
Speaker 4: really working? And well are they getting results? You have
Speaker 4: to ask yourself that are we paying them, you know,
Speaker 4: the full pay that they were getting before, but they're
Speaker 4: taking more time off. Who cares? If they're getting the
Speaker 4: results that need they need to get For you, that's
Speaker 4: me all that matters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I agree with you. And uh, look, most employees,
Speaker 2: most employees, you you can track work product. I don't
Speaker 2: see a problem with tracking work product, whether or if
Speaker 2: you're a salesperson, what your sales revenue looks like if
Speaker 2: if you look I'm a talk show host, you know,
Speaker 2: go go look at my ratings or whatever. What. But yeah,
Speaker 2: this is pretty scary stuff. Have there been any major
Speaker 2: lawsuits because I'm I'm not familiar with any, particularly by
Speaker 2: unions who represent workers. Uh, and that that that the
Speaker 2: unions have our hip to this and are and are
Speaker 2: snapping back at the corporations assuming that somebody who's employed
Speaker 2: as a union worker as opposed to you know, an
Speaker 2: independent contractor or not not affiliated with the union. Are
Speaker 2: the unions jumping back at this.
Speaker 4: Or No, I'm unaware of that at this time. But
Speaker 4: what I do know is that they're losing people because
Speaker 4: of the surveillance. So I'm not I'm not sure if
Speaker 4: they're if they're ssuing people, if the unions are fighting
Speaker 4: against this, it's more about the people that they're losing
Speaker 4: because of putting the surveillance into play. And research is
Speaker 4: showing that high trust workplaces outperform low trust workplaces. They
Speaker 4: up to fifty percent in productivity. So this is working
Speaker 4: against them anyway, if they if they knew what the
Speaker 4: what the stats were, you know, and low trust workplaces
Speaker 4: says have higher turn rates as well, So this makes
Speaker 4: perfect sense. If you treat people like they can't be trusted,
Speaker 4: you shouldn't be surprised when they leave or when they
Speaker 4: show you that they're not trustworthy, because you're micromanaging them
Speaker 4: the entire time. No one likes to be micromanaged.
Speaker 2: You could say that again, sister, I totally hear you
Speaker 2: that one, Betsy. I really enjoyed this conversation. You have fun.
Speaker 2: It's also something that I knew very little about, and
Speaker 2: I think it's great that you guys are out there
Speaker 2: looking at this. And if folks want to read the article,
Speaker 2: just go. I assume to Business Insider and it's available.
Speaker 4: Yes, go read it on Business Insider. And if you
Speaker 4: want to know what workplace trends are actually working right now,
Speaker 4: go to destinationworkplace dot com and download the national workplace
Speaker 4: trend study we just put out.
Speaker 2: Wow, this is a fascinating area of conversation. We'll have
Speaker 2: you back in maybe we'll talk about some of that
Speaker 2: as well. Your website is destinationworkplace dot com. Right, that
Speaker 2: is correct, Betsy Allen Manning, thank you very much. I
Speaker 2: enjoyed this conversation. You're a good sport, and I'd like
Speaker 2: to try to keep it light even when it is
Speaker 2: a serious topic. And I do consider this to be
Speaker 2: a serious topic. Thank you so much. Thanks for having
Speaker 2: me all right, You're very welcome when we get back
Speaker 2: on and talk about another serious topic, particularly for people
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts. There is a flu surge here in Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: and we're going to talk with doctor Sheila Derome. She's
Speaker 2: the chief infection Control officer of Tought's Medical Medicine and
Speaker 2: hospital epidemiologists at the Tough Medical Center. That's a mouthful.
Speaker 2: We've had doctor Doron on before. We'll have her back
Speaker 2: in about two minutes right after this break.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Way live from the Window World
Speaker 1: Nice Side Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm delighted to welcome back to the night side audience,
Speaker 2: doctor Shirah Doerome. She's the chief infection Control Officer for
Speaker 2: Tuft's Medicine and also the ho hospital epidemiologists at Tuft's
Speaker 2: Medical Center, Doctor Drone. You've been with us before.
Speaker 4: Welcome back, How are you great?
Speaker 3: Great to be back with you.
Speaker 2: So, unfortunately, we're talking about a flu surge here in Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: and we're talking about as I understand that the good
Speaker 2: old traditional winter flu that maybe some of us had
Speaker 2: forgotten about what's going on.
Speaker 8: That's right, we are having a doozy of a flu season.
Speaker 8: What we're seeing is that our hospital admissions for influenza
Speaker 8: virus are in the very high range, although this week
Speaker 8: they are starting to decline very nicely, almost down to
Speaker 8: the high range, which is better than very high. Whereas
Speaker 8: our emergency department visits have gone from the very high
Speaker 8: range last week, which was the first week they were
Speaker 8: in very high range, down to the high range this week.
Speaker 8: So we seem to be coming out of it, but
Speaker 8: we're still in the midst of it.
Speaker 2: Okay, now, I know that there's lots of stuff that's
Speaker 2: going around, But when we talk about the flu, I
Speaker 2: had a thing in Christmas time where I felt it
Speaker 2: was well, I think it was basically my doctor said
Speaker 2: eventually was bronchitis. I really, you know, had not trouble breathing,
Speaker 2: but I could feel stuff in my lungs. They actually
Speaker 2: sent me for a long X ray to make sure
Speaker 2: I didn't have pneumonia, and I had a cough that
Speaker 2: I couldn't get rid of for about three weeks. Is
Speaker 2: that the type of flu we're talking about or is
Speaker 2: it a different strain that we're talking about.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a great question. When we talk about the flu,
Speaker 8: we are talking about a specific virus called influenza. But
Speaker 8: the MASSIS is from a public colust and of course
Speaker 8: the CDC and nationally they also track all acute respiratory disease.
Speaker 8: So if we look at acute respiratory disease, which it
Speaker 8: consists of things like flu, covid, rs V, and all
Speaker 8: the other viruses out there that cause the symptoms that
Speaker 8: you're describing, and we really can't distinguish based on symptoms
Speaker 8: which virus it is. If you look at that we're
Speaker 8: actually in a pretty normal season, but flu is a
Speaker 8: bad one. Flu is a bad one and attends lots
Speaker 8: of people to the hospital. This year is you know,
Speaker 8: we are seeing some really serious complications, especially in infants,
Speaker 8: where we're seeing some neurologic complications, and so that's why
Speaker 8: our hospitals are really feeling it right now.
Speaker 2: So when you talk about flu, are you talking about
Speaker 2: you know, upper respiratory and cough or is that different.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to put it in a context here,
Speaker 2: or does the flu involve more like aches and b
Speaker 2: pains and temperature I did. I checked myself for COVID
Speaker 2: a couple of times that week. I felt what kind
Speaker 2: of allows you? But I didn't feel horrible. I was
Speaker 2: negative on COVID and negative on the the chest X ray.
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm finding that regard and I've recovered
Speaker 2: from it. But the thing that really got me was
Speaker 2: this horrific cough that you just couldn't bring anything up,
Speaker 2: those symptoms of the flow. I'm just trying to understand
Speaker 2: here how we distinguish between one and the other, that's all.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it is hard to distinguish, and generally only a
Speaker 8: test can distinguish, and you don't necessarily need a test
Speaker 8: because it's not always important to make that distinction. A
Speaker 8: typical true influenza infection has a sudden onset where you
Speaker 8: feel like suddenly you're hit by a truck. You have aches,
Speaker 8: you feel weak and fatigued, you have fever, and the
Speaker 8: cough is pretty significant usually, and that cough can last
Speaker 8: for six weeks. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean you're still contagious.
Speaker 8: That means that there's been damaged to your airway, and
Speaker 8: it's not all that uncommon then to get additional complications
Speaker 8: as you're recovering, like something like a pneumonia, which is
Speaker 8: the most common complication of fluid.
Speaker 2: Okay, so what caused this big spike this year? Was
Speaker 2: it the fact that we were all protected from I
Speaker 2: did my flu shot, I did my COVID shot, I
Speaker 2: do all my shots. What caused it? Did we just
Speaker 2: get a little overconfident and failed to get ourselves immunized
Speaker 2: or was it just something that came through and we
Speaker 2: now know we were going to get it no matter
Speaker 2: what we did.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's probably a combination of things, and maybe none
Speaker 8: of those things. You know, we have good beers and
Speaker 8: bad years or less less bad years and bad years.
Speaker 8: We are a bit less well immunized than we have
Speaker 8: been in prior years. We're seeing that across all age groups.
Speaker 8: There's lower uptake this year than in prior years. I'll
Speaker 8: emphasize that it is not too late, because there's still
Speaker 8: a lot of flu out there and there's going to
Speaker 8: be for many more weeks, so people can still get
Speaker 8: their shot. It may be that our vaccine this year,
Speaker 8: among the people who did get it, it may not
Speaker 8: be working that well. The Cleveland Clinic just put out
Speaker 8: a paper looking at all their employees this season so far,
Speaker 8: and they compared those that did and those that did
Speaker 8: not get the shot. There was no difference in testing
Speaker 8: positive for flu. So maybe we don't have a great
Speaker 8: match this year. We usually don't know that until we
Speaker 8: look back at the end of the season.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My understanding is that last summer, when there was
Speaker 2: a flu in the southern hemisphere, that was what we
Speaker 2: assumed was coming this way, and that the influence of
Speaker 2: vaccine then is based upon that information, and sometimes it's
Speaker 2: analyzed properly and sometimes it's not. Is that a fear common.
Speaker 8: That's right and there right now, there are kind of
Speaker 8: two predominant circulating strains, and if you look at the
Speaker 8: vaccine that we chose to make, the vaccine is pretty
Speaker 8: good against one of the predominant strains and pretty not
Speaker 8: so good against the other. So it makes sense that
Speaker 8: we wouldn't be amazing efficacy against this here strength.
Speaker 2: Okay, my last question is if people either have been
Speaker 2: vaccinated or they're going to go ahead and get vaccinated,
Speaker 2: what else can we do to avoid it? Obviously, cough
Speaker 2: into your elbows, I get all of that, stay away
Speaker 2: from other people who are coughing. What else could people
Speaker 2: do to minimize the chances that March and April will
Speaker 2: bring us you know, nice spring flowers at some point,
Speaker 2: but also will bring us more flu cases. What can
Speaker 2: they do in addition, if they've had their shots already
Speaker 2: to keep it safe.
Speaker 8: It's so hard, right, I mean, most people will get
Speaker 8: at least one respiratory viral infection during the winter, and
Speaker 8: you can't beat yourself up about it. You can you
Speaker 8: can wash your hands a lot and stay away from
Speaker 8: sick people. I think you know, in addition to getting
Speaker 8: all the vaccines that are recommended to you for the season,
Speaker 8: you want to maintain your underlying health so that when
Speaker 8: you do get a virus, you weather the storm success.
Speaker 8: So making sure that you're always focusing on optimizing your
Speaker 8: chronic medical conditions like heart disease and lung disease, which
Speaker 8: are such huge risk factors for severe influenza complications. Making
Speaker 8: sure you're eating healthy and getting exercise and getting outside
Speaker 8: and managing your stress and sleeping and all those things.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: First of all, doctor Darn, thank you very much for
Speaker 2: joining us. I know that normally you're providing us information
Speaker 2: which is cautionary, and I hope people have listened because
Speaker 2: there was a really a plethora of great advice that
Speaker 2: you provided us tonight, and we thank you very much
Speaker 2: as always, and somenight the not to do this in future,
Speaker 2: maybe we'll have you on for a longer session and
Speaker 2: we'll get you to take some phone calls, because I
Speaker 2: know that whenever whenever I have had you on, you've
Speaker 2: been always a great guest, whether in short version like
Speaker 2: tonight or the more long form hour version later on
Speaker 2: in the broadcast. Thanks again so much for your time, really.
Speaker 8: Always a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Talk to doctor Shira Dern, Chief Infection Control Officer, Tufts
Speaker 2: Medicine and also hospital epidemiologist at the Tofts Medical Center.
Speaker 2: When we get back, we are going to talk with
Speaker 2: another doctor, doctor John Freeman, about the bad news that
Speaker 2: came out of mass General Brigham earlier this month, about
Speaker 2: layoffs and cutbacks and what the implications are going forward.
Speaker 2: My name is Dan Ray. This is a Friday night
Speaker 2: edition of Nightside. Lots of great information for you tonight.
Speaker 2: We'll have some fun later on tonight in the twentieth hour.
Speaker 2: Stay with us. We're here for you all the way
Speaker 2: to midnight.