WEBVTT 1 00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:21.239 Hey, this is Cliff your host. This is a special 2 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:25.960 edition of Earth Ancients, and we have doctor Auvi Low 3 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:31.519 joining us to Harvard astrophysicist because he has been in 4 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:33.280 the news and we have a direct line to his 5 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:37.920 lab and whenever he shows up in the news. He 6 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:40.399 was in USA today on CNN and he's been on 7 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:42.640 a lot of TV. We had to get a hold 8 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:45.920 of him immediately. And what's going on is there's an 9 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:50.600 alien probe known as it's been identified and classified as 10 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:57.200 three I Atlas, the letter I three I Atlas and 11 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:02.799 this is another a mile mala kind of asteroid that 12 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:08.319 appears to be self directed, appears to be coming from 13 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:14.239 an ancient civilization outside of our cosmos, is entering our cosmos. 14 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:20.400 And what's a little unnerving is that the hypothesis from 15 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:24.680 this laboratory, from the scientific team is that it is 16 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:29.319 heading our way. And I don't want to frighten anybody, 17 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:33.799 but it's one of those situations where we just don't know, 18 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:39.599 and there's so much to talk about. We're gonna unload 19 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:43.840 quite a bit of data today. But the most important thing, 20 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:49.560 and why I have doctor loebe on the program fairly regularly, 21 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:53.200 is the fact that he is, without a doubt, the 22 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:57.200 most transparent scientist out there right now, and he's not 23 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.000 behooving to the government. I don't know if you guys 24 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.359 remember about five years ago when he came on, he 25 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:09.159 refused to sign a non disclosure agreement with the Department 26 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:13.039 of Defense, and he wanted to the public to know 27 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:17.000 what was going on in our base, in our cosmos. 28 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:21.840 And I'm not saying or suggesting that what we're going 29 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:25.719 to talk about today is a UAP, an unidentified aerial phenomenon. 30 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:32.439 It's that he is blowing the whistle on this because 31 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:38.439 within his hypothesis for what this is, there are consequences 32 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:44.520 and defense measures that need to be appropriated if this 33 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:53.080 so called asteroid UAP comes our way. So this is 34 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.719 going to be to the point. It's gonna be shorter 35 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:59.400 than normal, a little less an hour, and there are 36 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:03.599 very few interruptions, a few ads just to cover our bases. 37 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.280 But this is going to be short and sweet and 38 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.919 to the point, and that's what we need. And this 39 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.800 is why I really appreciate AVI coming on at such 40 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:16.800 short notice and to give us the details. So today's 41 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:21.039 program is Alien Probe three I at lasts and my 42 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:59.039 guest is doctor Avi Lobe. Well, I got a white 43 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:03.960 paper from my producer, Gail Tour. Asteroids are coming at us, 44 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.319 Asteroids are everywhere. That means that we have to think 45 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:11.560 of doctor Avi Lobe, and he has written an amazing paper. 46 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:13.479 We're always looking to see what he's up to. We 47 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.000 have him on I think at least once a year 48 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.399 to get an update on anything like the olma O 49 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:23.720 Maala asteroid that came by a few years ago. But 50 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:26.959 this is a really I don't know if it's an 51 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.800 alarmist paper or not. I was just talking to doctor 52 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:34.079 Lobe about this. But what makes this new object, we'll 53 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:37.040 call it unique, is the fact that it is an 54 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:40.759 interstellar I guess we're not gonna call it a probe 55 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:44.480 until doctor Lobe identifies it as a probe. But it's 56 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:49.399 very unique. It's got some kind of scary ramifications if 57 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:52.800 it's more than just a hypothesis. And for all the details, 58 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:55.959 guess what doctor Avi Lobe is with us. So hiy Avi, 59 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:57.199 welcome to Earth. 60 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:57.480 Agent. 61 00:04:57.480 --> 00:04:58.800 It's great to see you. How you doing. 62 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:01.279 Thanks thank for having me. It's a great pleasure. 63 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:03.839 All right, we got to get to the basics on 64 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:08.399 this are you set up at your observatory in Harvard 65 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:12.439 to observe this or this actually came from another observatory, 66 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:13.079 Is that correct? 67 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:16.480 Yeah, well, it was actually a half a meter telescope 68 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:21.160 called Atlas in Chile that discovered it on the first 69 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:25.519 of July twenty twenty five. And then, as it turns out, 70 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:29.920 the neighbor of that telescope is the Rubin Observatory that 71 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:33.519 was just inaugurated a few weeks earlier. And when they 72 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:36.519 looked back the data from the Ruby Observatory, which is 73 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.399 an eight point four meter telescope, they realized that it 74 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.759 was there. Now it's coming. The reason it was difficult 75 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.079 to spot it is because it's coming from the direction 76 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.439 of the center of the Milky Way, which is very 77 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.480 crowded with lots of stars. And you know, just this morning, 78 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:58.079 I wrote a new paper about the so called the 79 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.079 Lobe scale that's after my life name. I proposed an 80 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:07.399 idea a week ago after a Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna 81 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:09.399 called me on the phone and asked me for an 82 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:12.959 update about this new object, new interstellar object called three 83 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:18.160 I Atlas three because it's the third object spotted by 84 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:21.839 telescopes on Earth, is coming from outside the Solar System. 85 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.800 The first was of Muamua that you mentioned. Second was Boriso, 86 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:29.040 which was a comet. Ommu was very anomalous. We can 87 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:32.079 get into more details. But this one, which is called 88 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.879 three I I for interstellar and Atlas for the name 89 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:38.439 of the telescope. She wanted to know more about it, 90 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:41.839 and I told her. In fact, I said that there is. 91 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.680 It will come very close to Jupiter in mid March 92 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:50.240 twenty twenty six, and I wrote another paper suggesting that 93 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:55.279 we use Juno, a spacecraft that is currently orbiting Jupiter. 94 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:58.720 We give it a push away from Jupiter in mid 95 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:04.240 September twenty five. It was supposed to plunge into Jupiter's 96 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.279 atmosphere in mid September, the end of the mission. They 97 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:10.120 wanted to kill it, basically turn it to ashes, and 98 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:12.600 I said, don't do that, just push it the other way. 99 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:16.560 And with a sufficient push it could in principle intercept 100 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.639 three I at lasts, if it doesn't have enough fuel, 101 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:23.600 it will just get closer to it. And even with 102 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:26.160 very little fuel, like less than ten percent of the 103 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.920 original fuel that it had, it can come within ten 104 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:34.240 to twenty five million kilometers from three I atlas and 105 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:38.560 give us more information. Now, why is this information warranted? 106 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.160 Why is am I speaking about it so much? I 107 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:45.160 wrote maybe by now twenty six essays on medium dot 108 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:47.279 com over the past month that you can read all 109 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.959 the details about two of them. This morning, just this morning, 110 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:53.360 there was a paper from the Hubard Space Telescope that 111 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:57.360 image did and by the way, that's the latest news. 112 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:02.480 There seemed to be a glow of material preceding it. 113 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:06.439 Not there is no trailing tail. There is no tail 114 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:11.720 of this supposingly comet, So astronomers associated it with just 115 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.720 a comet from interstellar space moving too fast, moving at 116 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.399 sixty kilometers per second. Therefore it's not bound to the Sun. 117 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:23.199 It's approaching us. But what I've noticed is the brightness 118 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.519 of this object, and I noticed it on the first 119 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:29.959 day when it was discovered. The brightness implies a diameter 120 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:33.679 of twenty kilometers. And you know, amu Wa was just 121 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:36.519 about one hundred meters, you know, and this one is 122 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:40.399 twenty kilometers. There should be hundreds of thousands of objects 123 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:44.320 like Omuama for every object that is twenty kilometers. We 124 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:47.440 haven't seen hundreds of thousands. We've seen om and moa 125 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:49.879 and now this one after Boriso, which was also a 126 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:56.080 few hundred meters, so that's surprising. And moreover, you know, 127 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:00.200 there is not enough rocky material in interstellar space where 128 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:04.159 it came from to give us an object that is 129 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:09.919 made of rock which is twenty kilometers in diameter every decade. 130 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.639 In fact, if you just take a census of the 131 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:17.159 rocky material industrial space, you would expect such a giant 132 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:20.080 rock which is twice as large as the asteroid that 133 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.039 killed the dinosaurs. You expect that to be delivered to 134 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:27.279 the Inner Solar System once per ten thousand years. We've 135 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:29.879 detected it over a decade. It's supposed to have once 136 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:32.279 per ten thousand years. What's going on here? Of course, 137 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.759 one possibility, which I pointed out in my paper which 138 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:38.960 is now published, is that it wasn't a directed trajectory 139 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:43.759 targeting the Inner Solar System, meaning maybe it's technological. Maybe 140 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:47.519 the trajectory was designed. And then with two other collaborators, 141 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:51.120 Adam Hibbert and Adam Krawl, I wrote a paper that 142 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:56.120 is pointing out that the trajectory is indeed really unusual 143 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:59.879 in the sense that it's aligned with the orbital plane 144 00:09:59.879 --> 00:10:03.679 of the planets around the Sun. Okay, to within five degrees, 145 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.960 and the chances of that happening at random is one 146 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:12.600 in five hundred. That's extremely unusual, and we haven't had 147 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.120 five hundred objects from interstellar space. 148 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:21.559 And ask you real quickly, just for the Lettuce imaging 149 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.960 of this object, are you suggesting that we're looking at 150 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.240 a propulsion system of some kind. 151 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:32.480 Not necessarily right now. It may have been propelled in that, 152 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:35.080 you know, before it arrived to our vicinity, before we 153 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.799 could see it. But the point is that the trajectory 154 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:41.440 is very fine tuned, first of all, to be in 155 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.320 the orbital plane of the planets. You know that, as 156 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:47.360 I said, that's one in five hundred chants of it 157 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.840 being so close to the orbital plane. It comes on 158 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:53.200 a retrograde orbit, which is opposite to the motion of 159 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:55.960 the planets around the Sun, meaning that if it wants 160 00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:00.159 to deploy mini probes that will visit the planets there 161 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:02.840 is because the plants are moving towards it, so to speak. 162 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.440 And then it will arrive very close to Jupiter, Mars, 163 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.039 and Venus. And the chance of that happening at random, 164 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:13.679 you know, if you just take that trajectory, you say, okay, 165 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.360 I accept it's in the plane of the planet. I 166 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:19.759 just change the arrival time. Still, the chance is one 167 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:24.240 in twenty thousand that it will arrive so close to Mars, 168 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.960 Venus and Jupiter, and you know that makes it unusual. 169 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.799 And also it arrives closest to the Sun when the 170 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:34.159 Earth is on the opposite side, we won't be able 171 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:36.799 to observe it from Earth. If they know about us, 172 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:39.919 that's the best strategy if they wanted to do a 173 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:44.279 maneuver near the Sun, because that's when the gravitational assist 174 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.519 of the Sun can help do a very significant maneuver. 175 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:51.080 That's what we do, is spacecraft. We make a maneuver 176 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:54.200 close to the Sun because you are taking advantage of 177 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:58.200 the Sun's gravity to prepare yourself at a different speed. 178 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.200 So if they wanted, for example, to slow down, you know, 179 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:03.840 if they don't show up on the other side of 180 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:05.960 the Sun after we can't see them during the month 181 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.879 of October twenty twenty five, you know they will pass 182 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:11.679 closest to the Sun on October twenty ninth. If they 183 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:14.080 don't show up on the other side as expected, I 184 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:17.519 think the stock market may crash. 185 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:19.840 Oh my god, amazing. 186 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:22.720 Now I should also say that this morning I wrote 187 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:27.559 a paper. It's also available on medium dot com, where 188 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:32.240 I suggested it already a week ago, but I now 189 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:36.120 elaborated on that of what I is being called the 190 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:41.480 Lobe scale, which is a risk scale for interstellar objects, 191 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.480 objects coming from outside the Solar System. Zero implies that 192 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:48.840 it's a natural object, a rock like, for example, an 193 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:53.240 asteroid or an icy rock like a comet, the type 194 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.639 of rocks that we are familiar with in the Solar System. 195 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:00.279 And you know that would be a zero because the 196 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.120 chance of that hitting the Earth is very small. You know, 197 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:06.960 it really needs to be on a straight trajectory towards 198 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:11.879 Earth and that's a very small probability. But ten on 199 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:17.960 that scale is definitely artificial in origin, definitely technological, meaning 200 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.000 that we can see maneuvering in a way, you know, 201 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:27.559 non gravitational acceleration that represents perhaps propulsion or some engine. 202 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:33.279 We see evidence for artificial lights or excess heat from 203 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:36.679 an engine, or we see an unusual shape of the object. 204 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:41.639 All of these are indicative of a technological signature. And 205 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:45.360 you know, I think it's important for us to scale 206 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:52.919 any incoming interstellar object on this scale. And now the 207 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:57.559 Rubin Observatory in Chile will start discovering every few months 208 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.320 a new interstellar object. Until now, we had only three 209 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:06.200 spotted by telescopes over the past eight years. But from 210 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.600 now on, you know, there is an increase by almost 211 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.600 two orders of magnitude in the detection rate, and therefore 212 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:16.600 we should be alert because the implications would be huge 213 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.879 to humanity, not only in terms of US understanding that 214 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.720 there might be a smarter kid on the blog, us 215 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:27.039 being able to learn from their technologies, but also there 216 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:29.799 is a threat. You know, there is an existential threat 217 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:35.039 to humanity. And in the past we worried about the 218 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:41.000 existential threat from artificial intelligence or from climate change. Lots 219 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:45.120 of people are talking about this all the time, and 220 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:47.639 every now and then we also talk about a threat 221 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:53.879 from a killer asteroid of the type that killed the dinosaurs. 222 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.080 And of course NASA was tasked by Congress, the US 223 00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.720 Congress to look for all objects above the size of 224 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:03.159 a fotball field that may risk that may come close 225 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:06.720 to Earth. And that's the reason the Rubin Observatory was constructed. 226 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.879 But I'm saying there is another type of objects that 227 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:13.440 we should be worried about, and we don't discuss those, 228 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:20.519 and that is alien technology objects. And we should just 229 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.440 check each and every object entering the Solar system if 230 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:26.639 it has anomalies that put it high above I would 231 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:30.240 say above level four on the Lob scale. That I 232 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:35.320 propose we should definitely have policy makers discuss them, getting 233 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.240 more data from scientists and deciding how to respond to them, 234 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:43.759 and then of course psychologists to decide how to communicate 235 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:47.679 the message to the public without creating panic, without the 236 00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:48.919 economic meltdown. 237 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.200 Have you been able to determine the shape? Is it 238 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:58.480 like the Omauma asteroid which just looks aerodynamic to me? 239 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:00.879 But do we have an idea idea. 240 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:04.840 Or Muama changed its brightness every eight hours. It was 241 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.720 stumbling by a factor of ten, and the best fit 242 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:12.559 for the variation of reflected sunlight from it implied that 243 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:18.840 it has a disk like shape, very unusual. And moreover, 244 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.320 it was pushed away from the Sun by some mysterious force, 245 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:28.679 and there wasn't any evaporation that is visible, no cometary 246 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:33.039 tail whatsoever, no molecules of dust or carbon based molecules 247 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:36.200 that are usually accompanying any comet, so there was no 248 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.080 rocket effect acting on it. The question was what is 249 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:44.240 pushing it, what's creating this non gravitational acceleration, And unfortunately 250 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:47.000 we were left in the dark about it because we 251 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:51.240 didn't get enough data to figure out its nature. And 252 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:54.679 I said, look, these anomalies should alert us because it 253 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:58.879 may be just like our own space debris, you know, 254 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:03.720 the space trash without For example, three years later, the 255 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.680 same telescope in Hawaii pan stars that discovered them as 256 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:12.079 a near Earth object found another near Earth object that 257 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.519 was pushed by reflecting sunlight, and that one ended up 258 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:18.799 being a rocket booster from a nineteen sixty six launch 259 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.839 by NASA. And just on January second this year, twenty 260 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:29.119 twenty five, the Minor Planet Center reported about a new 261 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:34.480 asteroid near Earth and then they realized, oh wait a minute, 262 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.799 this one moves along the path of the Tesla Roads, 263 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.279 the car that was launched by SpaceX, and then they 264 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.160 removed it from their list. So this one was not 265 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.680 a rock, It was a car, okay. And all I'm 266 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.680 saying is that maybe Elon Musk is not the most 267 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:56.279 accomplished space entrepreneur since the Big Bank. You know, thirteen 268 00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:59.960 point eight billionaires passed since the Big Bank the Sun formed. 269 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.359 Just in the last one third of cosmic history, most 270 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.640 of the stars from billions of years before the Sun, 271 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:09.559 and you can ask where will Voyager be in a billionaeres, 272 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:11.799 it will be on the other side of the Milky 273 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.759 Way galaxy. And therefore there was plenty of time for 274 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:22.359 their space artifacts to arrive to our backyard. So we 275 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.519 should simply be agnostic and check each and every interest 276 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.319 our object, whether it has some technological features. 277 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:34.000 We're going to take a short commercial break to allow 278 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:38.200 our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly 279 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.640 with my guest today, doctor Avi Lobe coming to us 280 00:18:42.680 --> 00:19:29.279 from Harvard University, will be right back. We're discussing the 281 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:33.680 alien probe three I atlas and what the ramifications are 282 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:38.799 for an impact scenario here on planet Earth. With our 283 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:47.640 guest today, doctor Avi Loebe. Can you tell with your 284 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:52.799 equipment if an object is changing its trajectory as it's 285 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.240 coming from an interstellar location. 286 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:59.640 Definitely you can. In fact, with the help of the Web, 287 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.680 which is positioned one and a half million kilometers away 288 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.920 from Earth, we can look at the object from two directions, 289 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:12.240 from telescopes on Earth and from the Web. It's just 290 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.519 like having two eyes that allow us to gauge distances 291 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.880 of objects, and in fact, I believe the Web observatory 292 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:23.480 is actually looking at it today. Okay, so we should see. 293 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.000 But the point of that is not only the Web 294 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.480 telescope is able to help us pinpoint the trajector of 295 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.200 the object and figure out if it has nongravitational acceleration 296 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:35.799 to a very high precision. We didn't have that with 297 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.880 more we had just the hubrid Space telescope, which is 298 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.160 much closer to Earth. The Web is further. We can 299 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:46.599 get the position of three ieutlats much better. But moreover, 300 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:51.119 the Web telescope can detect the heat emitted by three iyatlasers. 301 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.799 In other words, not just the reflection of sunlight from it, 302 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.359 but the infrared radiation that it emits, and that can 303 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:02.240 help us figure out its face temperature, to figure out 304 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:07.400 its surface area, and then a see spins every sixteen hours, 305 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.960 we could actually sort of get a three dimensional mapping 306 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.920 on of how it looks like, you know, and then 307 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.799 I'm waiting to see what the results will show. It's 308 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:20.640 you know, science is exciting because you don't need to 309 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.599 know the answer in advance. Despite what my colleagues are 310 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.359 or you know, they always know the answer in advance, 311 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.160 like it must be a comet, you know, and then 312 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.559 they get surprised. So in this case, just to give 313 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:35.960 you the surprise of the morning, there was the first 314 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:41.640 paper analyzing images from the Hubble Space telescope taken on 315 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:46.400 the fourth of July twenty twenty five, and they show 316 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:52.160 a glow of something in front of the object, in front, 317 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.079 not behind. Usually with comets you have a tail. That's 318 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:58.960 why we say comet retail. It's behind. This time you 319 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:02.319 see some glow in front of it, in the direction 320 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:06.359 that it moves towards the sun. And the question is why. 321 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.480 Of course, one possibility is that it's only you know 322 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.680 it has it doesn't spin very rapidly, so it has 323 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.119 a hot day side and a cold night side, and 324 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.319 the day side is warmed up by the sunlight, and 325 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:26.240 therefore you know, it ejects thus particles that you see 326 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.279 in front of it and not behind it. But another 327 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.400 thing that is peculiar is there is no evidence. And 328 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:36.000 by now there are maybe five studies, five independent papers 329 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:39.759 from different observatories using some of the best observatories in 330 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.440 the world, that it took a spectrum of the object 331 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:50.240 looking for the characteristic you know molecules that accompany cometary activity. 332 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.559 These are carbon based molecules that you find in every 333 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:58.119 comet in the Solar system. And they haven't found any spectrum. 334 00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:04.000 They only saw the only saw reddening of the reflected sunlight. 335 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:08.000 In other words, the object is red but doesn't show 336 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:12.319 evidence for gas, molecules or atoms around it. 337 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:18.279 And that's puzzling, that's fascinating. In your paper, you have 338 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:23.960 considerations to support your hypothesis that this is artificial. And 339 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.640 one of the things I wanted to ask you about. 340 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.240 You say, it's too large to be an asteroid, right, 341 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.440 and that makes what does that mean if Oma Mau 342 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.880 was Oma Mau too large to be an asteroid too? 343 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:40.759 No, No, Omua Mua was roughly one hundred meters inside. 344 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.400 I mean that was the length the thing. It could 345 00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:48.920 have been very thin, actually, but this one is two 346 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:52.480 hundred times bigger. It's it's twenty kilometers in diameter. If 347 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:55.680 what we are seeing is its brightness is simply reflection 348 00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.920 from a solid object, Okay, Now, of course it's possible 349 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:04.240 that you know, some some cloud of dust around it 350 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:06.720 is doing the reflection. It's not the object. But if 351 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.240 it is the object, then it's twenty kilometers in diameter, 352 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:15.240 And why is that puzzling? Because there is not enough 353 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:20.799 mass in rocks in interstellar space to deliver a twenty 354 00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:25.559 kilometer rock to our vicinity every decade. You know, our 355 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:28.240 survey went on for a decade. You can do that 356 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.799 once per ten thousand years, that would be reasonable, but 357 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.759 not every decade. So either it is a comet, but 358 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.200 the nucleus of the comet is very small, you know, 359 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:43.359 less than about a kilometer in diameter. Then you don't 360 00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:46.480 need a lot of mass. And then the reflection that 361 00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:49.759 we see, the brightness of the object results from dust 362 00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:54.160 that was evaporating from the small object that creates this 363 00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:57.079 glow around. It has nothing to do with the size 364 00:24:57.079 --> 00:24:59.680 of the object. Size of the object is very small. 365 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:04.319 That's one possibility. And of course, if it happens to 366 00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:08.480 be a large object, you know, I think it's extremely puzzling. 367 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:11.480 Why are we seeing it in over a survey of 368 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:15.079 one decade. And the one possibility that can explain it 369 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:18.160 is because it's not only a random trajectory. It's not like, 370 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.160 you know, you have a lot of these rocks moving around. 371 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:24.759 It's actually an object that targeted the inner Solar System. 372 00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:28.200 By design, the trajectory wanted to get to the inner 373 00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.000 part of the Solar System to visit the planets in 374 00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:34.960 the habitable zone, and that of course would suggest some 375 00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:40.640 designed the trajectory, some intelligence behind the trajectory, which is 376 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.880 also indicated by the fact that it's in the ecliptic 377 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.720 plane where the planets move around the Sun. With a 378 00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.519 probability of one in five hundred, is it. 379 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:54.640 Possible that this came from the same civilization that sent 380 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.920 out a more and more it's possible object in. 381 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.000 The general it comes from a different direction. But you know, 382 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.640 we don't know the nature of a mua mua. It 383 00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:09.960 could be just a surface layer or some debris lefto 384 00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:13.000 I mean, I should say that this object three I 385 00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:17.160 atlas enter the outskirts of the Solar system, you know, 386 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.920 the edge of the Oar cloud at ae hundred thousand 387 00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:25.480 times the Earth Sun separation about eight thousand years ago. 388 00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:28.319 If it started from far out, so eight thousand years 389 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:33.799 ago when humans started recording history, that's when this object 390 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:37.799 was at one hundred thousand times the Earth Sun separation. 391 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:42.160 On the other hand, you can imagine some kind of 392 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:48.880 a base of you know, alien technologies within the Solar 393 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.200 system like they already are not so far like if 394 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.599 there are at a thousand Earth sun separation a thousand 395 00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:00.480 times that it would take them only about eight years 396 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.200 to reach us, you know, And so they if they 397 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:08.759 see that we are developing as a young technological cimilation, 398 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:12.079 we are developing and opposing a potential threat to them, 399 00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:14.759 they might visit us. And you know, that is the 400 00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:19.640 dark forest hypothesis, which was a solution to Fermi's paradox. 401 00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:23.480