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<v Speaker 1>Hello.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Josh Crockett from Oregon City, Oregon, and I play

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<v Speaker 2>at Stone Creek Golf Course.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Golf Smarter. Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Bob Lawiki from Westernville, Ohio, and I play

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<v Speaker 2>at Darby Creek Golf Course. This is Golf Smarter number

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<v Speaker 2>one thousand and twenty seven.

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<v Speaker 1>The essential difference between a mindful state of mind and

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<v Speaker 1>a chaotic state of mind is called meta awareness. Meta

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<v Speaker 1>awareness would be imagine that your normal consciousness is the

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<v Speaker 1>flashlight beam. Imagine there's a smaller flashlight bolted to the

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<v Speaker 1>big flashlight, and the purpose of the beam of light

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<v Speaker 1>coming from the small flashlight is to always focus on

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<v Speaker 1>where the big flashlight beam of light is focusing. So

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<v Speaker 1>you always know where am I paying attention right now

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<v Speaker 1>in this moment, And if it turns out you're paying

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<v Speaker 1>attentions in a bad place, a place that could trigger

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<v Speaker 1>a yet for example, or a flinch or just a

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<v Speaker 1>poorly time release. If you recognize my mind goes to

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<v Speaker 1>a place that then triggers a breakdown in the mind body,

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<v Speaker 1>or just a bad swing is a result when my

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<v Speaker 1>mind wanders off, knowing that that mind wandering off is

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<v Speaker 1>the main cause or even the only cause of a

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<v Speaker 1>bad swing can be of great help because now you

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<v Speaker 1>have the opportunity to learn from your mistakes.

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<v Speaker 2>Rules of the road to understanding how consciousness works in

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<v Speaker 2>creating a better mental game.

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<v Speaker 1>With Jim Waldron. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips

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<v Speaker 1>and insights from great golf minds to help you lower

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<v Speaker 1>your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Fred Green.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Jim, thanks man, really appreciate being here for my one

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<v Speaker 1>million appearance.

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<v Speaker 2>That's always the beginning of these episodes, like figuring out

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<v Speaker 2>how many times Jim Waldron has been. It's probably in

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<v Speaker 2>the thirty something range. I think we discussed the last time.

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<v Speaker 1>Somebody's going to remember.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the number of the tounds familiar to me. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's interesting. We didn't do thirty six holes. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>but but since the beginning of our podcast time, you've

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<v Speaker 2>become quite prolific, and you've done more than thirty seven

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<v Speaker 2>podcast episodes with a lot of people, haven't you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm getting invited pretty much. I get at least

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<v Speaker 1>about one invitation a week the last year, from some

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting ones, including kind of what we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about today. There's a whole other sub genre in

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast world that you may not be familiar with,

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<v Speaker 1>but has to do with people who are interested in

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<v Speaker 1>the nature of human consciousness. So there's a consciousness community

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<v Speaker 1>on the Internet.

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<v Speaker 2>And then there's golf consciousness community.

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<v Speaker 1>No, there's not really a golf conscious there's more what

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<v Speaker 1>you've been doing. There's a golf mental game community. But

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<v Speaker 1>what I wanted to talk about this is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>this is kind of a main thing that I've been

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<v Speaker 1>interested in, not just as a golf coach for the

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<v Speaker 1>last forty years I've been doing it, but even since

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<v Speaker 1>I was a very young child, I was always fascinated

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<v Speaker 1>by the nature of consciousness, and I want to go

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<v Speaker 1>in I think that would be a good topic today

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<v Speaker 1>because I think the big critique I have of traditional

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<v Speaker 1>mental game instruction in sports psychologies particular even just general

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Western psychotherapy, is it's too much based on

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<v Speaker 1>what I call Shuldhism, which is the story we tell

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<v Speaker 1>ourselves to get ourselves sort of what to get our

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<v Speaker 1>mind wrapped around, you know, the nature of improved psychological performance.

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<v Speaker 1>But the big missing link historically has been lack of

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<v Speaker 1>actual pragmatic execution. Yeah. Do that makes sense? Yeah? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>And you know the word should have could it right? Yeah? Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean everybody kind of knows. If anybody who's been

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<v Speaker 1>a golf mental game podcast junkie like you and me,

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<v Speaker 1>we're all kind of saying the same thing. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>The experts are pretty much in agreement on the major

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<v Speaker 1>points about what the ideal psychological state is. Right. The

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<v Speaker 1>question is how do you go from a very anxious, nervous,

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<v Speaker 1>stressed out, neurotic psychological state to a calm, emotionally stable,

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<v Speaker 1>confident state of mind. And that's the part where I

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<v Speaker 1>think traditional approaches are sorely lacking because they don't understand

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<v Speaker 1>that the essential nature of consciousness and good for us,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a body of knowledge that's been around for

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five hundred years, which is the Buddhist tradition. The

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<v Speaker 1>Buddhists were the original, were the world's original psychotherapists, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's the entire Buddhist tradition when it comes to trying

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<v Speaker 1>to understand or explain the nature of the human mind,

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<v Speaker 1>is based on empirical observation. It's not based on theory,

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<v Speaker 1>meaning Buddhist monks spend sixteen hours a day in the

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<v Speaker 1>meditative state of mind, and when they're dreaming, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of them practice something in the West is called lucid dreaming.

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<v Speaker 1>They're meditating when they're dreaming. So these are people who

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<v Speaker 1>spend the bulk of their day observing how the mind works. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So we can learn a lot from that tradition, especially

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<v Speaker 1>the mindfulness aspect of it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm distracted in the sense that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the Buddhist monks don't play golf. That it's easier, I

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<v Speaker 2>have found for me. And this has been a tough

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<v Speaker 2>year for me for golf because I've not played as

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<v Speaker 2>much as I like to play, because we've just been

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<v Speaker 2>busy with family and travel and blah blah blah. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I have found for me that when things aren't

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<v Speaker 2>going well on the golf course. But let's put it

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<v Speaker 2>this way, when things are going well on the golf course,

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<v Speaker 2>it's very easy to get into a positive, flowing state.

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<v Speaker 2>But when you know, as the round progresses and you

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<v Speaker 2>have an issue that becomes reoccurring, whether it be missing

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<v Speaker 2>three foot putts multiple times, whether it be chunking off

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<v Speaker 2>around the fringes of the green, which is my issue.

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<v Speaker 1>And I work on it.

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<v Speaker 2>I work on it, and I work on it, and

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<v Speaker 2>I feel really good and confident and positive, and I

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<v Speaker 2>go to the golf course and I hit it eight inches.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's like I just chunk behind it. So

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<v Speaker 2>when that happens multiple times, it's very difficult to calm

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<v Speaker 2>yourself down, to get into a like, oh, just like,

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<v Speaker 2>look at the trees, appreciate where you are, feel grateful,

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<v Speaker 2>just breathe, I mean, all those things I do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, In fact, it actually makes it worse because

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<v Speaker 1>now you have a set of behaviors you're supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>be expressing right, and you're utterly failing to do all

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<v Speaker 1>that sports psychology recommended stuff. So that makes you feel

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<v Speaker 1>even worse. Yes, that's the essential dilemma from a Buddhists

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<v Speaker 1>point of view. To keep it real simple, a there's

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<v Speaker 1>a type of suffering that human beings experience, which is

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes called in the Buddhist tradition secondary suffering or reactive suffering,

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<v Speaker 1>which basically means when life presents a problem to you

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<v Speaker 1>in the external world, how do you react to that

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<v Speaker 1>external world situation can create unnecessary suffering sow is, there's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of required or necessary suffering because of the nature

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<v Speaker 1>of human existence, right that we don't get our way

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<v Speaker 1>all the time, and we don't we don't have one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent freedom, and we don't have you know, we're

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<v Speaker 1>not God's We have limitations that the physical world presents

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<v Speaker 1>to us. But then there's how we react to that

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<v Speaker 1>type of suffering. The original suffering become turns into reactive suffering,

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<v Speaker 1>and then that begs a question, well, is there anything

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<v Speaker 1>you can do to lower that reactive suffering? And the

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<v Speaker 1>answer is absolutely, from a Buddhist point of view, absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>yes there is, which but it means you have to

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<v Speaker 1>do the work. You have to do some type of

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<v Speaker 1>psychological hygiene practice the way you do physical hygiene terms

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<v Speaker 1>of working out or dental hygiene, brushing your teeth. I

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<v Speaker 1>believe everybody should be doing at least one form of

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<v Speaker 1>daily mindfulness practice just to maintain basic psychological health. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>pretty important.

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<v Speaker 2>I would think that reactive suffering is just a euphemism

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<v Speaker 2>for golf. Yeah, what are you gonna do today? Hey babe,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll be back in a couple hours. I'm gonna go

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<v Speaker 2>do reactive suffering.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what tells that a lot of money to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you choose to do this, yes, yes, as

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<v Speaker 2>often as I possibly can.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've developed a system that's kind of a step

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<v Speaker 1>by step series of principles about the nature of consciousness.

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<v Speaker 1>And when people understand that and start to do the work,

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<v Speaker 1>that's when I start to see a pretty rapid and

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<v Speaker 1>big increase in their psychological performance, whether it's on or

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<v Speaker 1>off the golf course. Yeah. And the first one is

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<v Speaker 1>the first step, or the first stage, is to understand

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<v Speaker 1>the nature of normal consciousness, meaning normal consciousness would be

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<v Speaker 1>someone who's never done any type of mindfulness practice, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And there's various aspects of normal consciousness, but I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>going to go over a couple of the really big ones.

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<v Speaker 1>One is random chaos. In Buddhism, that's called monkey mind,

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<v Speaker 1>meaning your mind is constantly churning. It doesn't like to

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<v Speaker 1>be at rest, it doesn't like to be stable. It

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<v Speaker 1>always wants to be moving at pretty high rates of

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<v Speaker 1>speak thoughts, entering, leaving judgments, conclusions. There's this constant churning mass.

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<v Speaker 1>It's sometimes described as a in Buddhist philosophy, right, like

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<v Speaker 1>a like a like a class three rapid river with

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<v Speaker 1>different abjects floating in the surface, and you're in the

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<v Speaker 1>river and you don't know how to swim. This is

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<v Speaker 1>the basic depiction of sort of you know, baseline human suffering,

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<v Speaker 1>and you're trying to keep your head above water, and

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<v Speaker 1>what do you do to to not drown in the

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<v Speaker 1>in the river of suffering and mental chaos? Right, And

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<v Speaker 1>so the idea is, uh, there's a way to basically

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<v Speaker 1>find a way to basically keep your head above water

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<v Speaker 1>so you don't drown, and then eventually learn how to

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<v Speaker 1>swim a little bit and then eventually swim over to

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<v Speaker 1>the bank of the river, climb climb up on the

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<v Speaker 1>bank and sit and watch the river go by. That's

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<v Speaker 1>that would be more of a more of an advanced

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<v Speaker 1>state of mindfulness practice. You got to start somewhere, and

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<v Speaker 1>so that that type of practice in the Buddhist tradition

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<v Speaker 1>is called samata or translating from power or censort to English,

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<v Speaker 1>that means concentration or narrow focus. Yeah. Okay, So if

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<v Speaker 1>you think of if you think of awareness or consciousness,

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<v Speaker 1>which is often described not just Buddhist tradition, but most

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<v Speaker 1>major religions and systems of psychotherapy will will describe consciousness

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<v Speaker 1>as a beam of light. Yeah. And the beam of

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<v Speaker 1>light has three sizes or modes, which are a search

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<v Speaker 1>light super wide, yeah, and then a medium wide, and

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<v Speaker 1>then very narrow. So narrow would be like a like

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<v Speaker 1>a quarter inch diameter laser beam. Think of it like

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<v Speaker 1>that versus the big mind that super wide would be

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<v Speaker 1>like a search light. And so what you're doing in

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<v Speaker 1>early stages and mindfulness practices, you switch on narrow mode

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<v Speaker 1>by focusing intensely on just one small thing, which we

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<v Speaker 1>call the focal point. And there could be any number

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<v Speaker 1>of things and golf, it could be the target picture,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, or it could be the feeling of grip pressure. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>In sittying meditation, it's usually feeling your belly move in

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<v Speaker 1>and out with your breath. Yeah. The exercise I start

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<v Speaker 1>all my students with is a real simple one called

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<v Speaker 1>candle flame concentration. So you when you're not stressed and

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<v Speaker 1>when you're not tired, you sit in a dimly lit room.

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<v Speaker 1>You light a candle, put it on your coffee table,

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<v Speaker 1>sit on the couch or the chair, set your phone

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<v Speaker 1>alarm for two minutes, and the goal is to simply

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<v Speaker 1>pay attention to the flickering candle. Flame without having any

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<v Speaker 1>internal psychological reaction to it, and without your mind wandering

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<v Speaker 1>off going somewhere else, which you know sounds easy fread,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's really really difficult.

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<v Speaker 2>God, God, it would be painful for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because again, the essential nature of the monkey mind

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<v Speaker 1>is it doesn't like to stay on one thing. It

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<v Speaker 1>likes to flip back and forth from one one focus

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<v Speaker 1>of attention to another.

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<v Speaker 2>I am very familiar with monkey mind. I live it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm very familiar with the term because it's very

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<v Speaker 2>hard for me to stay focused on anyone, especially you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in a short period of time, an intense period of time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Another aspect of it is when you start to meditate,

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<v Speaker 1>not only do you realize you actually have a much

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody experiences this, It's universal. Everybody who meditates for the

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<v Speaker 1>first week of doing it properly, by the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the week they're like stunned at how out of control

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<v Speaker 1>their mind is. So I call that your mind has

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<v Speaker 1>a mind of its own. It doesn't want to stay focused. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's another aspect of normal human consciousness, which is

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<v Speaker 1>that we have way less free will or choice than

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<v Speaker 1>we think we do. In other words, again, there's an

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<v Speaker 1>involunte even though we call it conscious mind, because what

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about is amenable, it's accessible to consciousness, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So you can be aware of your thought patterns, for example.

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<v Speaker 1>But the fact that you can be aware of what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on in your conscious mind sort of mental space,

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean that you have a high degree of control

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<v Speaker 1>over it so very much. So we're human beings. Are

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<v Speaker 1>not too dissimilar to the famous Pavlovs dogs experiment where

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<v Speaker 1>the dogs were trained, through what's called operate conditioning, to

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<v Speaker 1>salivate when they hear a bell ring. Have we heard

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<v Speaker 1>of that? So there was real reactive creatures. We're not

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<v Speaker 1>primarily rational creatures, which is the big mistake of the

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<v Speaker 1>European Enlightenment philosophers who thought we were primarily rational. We're

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<v Speaker 1>primarily emotional creatures, and we're primarily storytelling or myth creating creatures.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not primarily logical, irrational creatures. So that's the second

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<v Speaker 1>thing you realize when you do early stages of mindfulness

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<v Speaker 1>practice that you're kind of like the dog. When the

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<v Speaker 1>bell rings, you react. So when you triple bogie your

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<v Speaker 1>first hole and around the golf and you got about

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<v Speaker 1>a one or two minute walk to the next tee.

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<v Speaker 1>That's your opportunity to start to start salivating, so to speak,

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<v Speaker 1>because you just messed up the first hole, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>now you start going to the reactive suffering where you

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<v Speaker 1>beat yourself up. You have this intense conversation with yourself

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<v Speaker 1>while you're walking to the second tee, right, and that

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<v Speaker 1>all that does is make the likelihood of your second

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<v Speaker 1>of your key shot on the second hole being as

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<v Speaker 1>bad as the first hole that you messed up. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, for me, it's like when I when I

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<v Speaker 2>have that triple bogie on the front where you watching

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<v Speaker 2>me play yesterday, It's like, Okay, that's out of my system.

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<v Speaker 1>Now let's move on. Well, that's the right way to

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<v Speaker 1>frame it, correct, That's that's how a Buddhist monkly frame it.

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<v Speaker 1>But most people don't do that. They go into what

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<v Speaker 1>we call the ego drama and they feed it.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, it's like, oh, this is gonna be a really

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<v Speaker 2>long day.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I can't believe you know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like they think that that's going to dictate the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of the round.

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<v Speaker 1>You could burn you the next five hole. Nobody knows

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<v Speaker 1>what's going to happen. Everything. The nature of physical reality,

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, it's called the fourth dimension is time. We

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<v Speaker 1>live in a three dimensional universe spatially, and then time

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<v Speaker 1>is the fourth and the essential nature of time is

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<v Speaker 1>this moment has never happened before, it will never happen

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<v Speaker 1>in the future. The present moment is completely unique and

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<v Speaker 1>at the level of human psychology, the past has no

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<v Speaker 1>influence over your ability to perform this shot.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I was telling somebody that this week I

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<v Speaker 2>was playing and he hit a ball left and he goes,

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<v Speaker 2>I do that every time on this whole I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh boy, do we have to talk like it has

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<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with this shot? Your history has nothing

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<v Speaker 2>to do with your next shot.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we call that the myth of psychological momentum. The

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<v Speaker 1>physical momentum is real the level of the body, clearly,

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<v Speaker 1>the past influence is the present. Be injured yourself, like

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<v Speaker 1>I always use. Tony Finow a few years ago to Augusta,

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<v Speaker 1>he sprained his ankle in the Wednesday Part three contests.

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<v Speaker 1>Somehow he was still able to play and he actually

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<v Speaker 1>made the cut, but obviously he didn't play as well

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<v Speaker 1>as he could have. So past loses the body, but

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't influence the mind ironically, Fred, unless you believe

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<v Speaker 1>it does due to the power of what we call

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<v Speaker 1>in psychotherapy the as if principle, or the power of belief.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you believe the past has some external, actual,

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<v Speaker 1>objective force that's affecting you your ability to perform mentally now,

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<v Speaker 1>then ironically it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 1>objectively it doesn't have an influence at all. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so those first two steps to read. By the way,

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<v Speaker 1>did you know that close to ninety five percent of

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<v Speaker 1>people who learn at least classical beginner level Buddhist meditation

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<v Speaker 1>quit by the end of thirty days. They don't stay

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<v Speaker 1>with it. It has a worse track record than weight

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<v Speaker 1>loss programs.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, from what meditation does.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, most people will not get to most average people

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<v Speaker 1>will not even make it to thirty days. But the

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<v Speaker 1>problem is you don't get the benefit. Generally speaking, you

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<v Speaker 1>get almost no benefit until you reach the thirty day mark.

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<v Speaker 2>Well then then doesn't that make sense and why people

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<v Speaker 2>believe it's like working for me?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Well no, only that. Again, it's painful to realize

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<v Speaker 1>I'm more like a dog reacting to a bell that

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<v Speaker 1>tinkling more reactive than I thought I was. I have

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<v Speaker 1>less free will, less personal autonomy than I used to think,

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<v Speaker 1>and my mind is like, it's like, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>like the monkey mind thing. I got this out of

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<v Speaker 1>control mind. And so it's painful to have those two

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<v Speaker 1>insights about the nature of normal consciousness. But it's also

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<v Speaker 1>a mistake, obviously in my view, to quit. I think

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<v Speaker 1>if you could stick it out and get through the

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<v Speaker 1>beginning of the second month, particularly if you're doing sitting meditation,

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<v Speaker 1>which is designed to be insanely boring on purpose, if

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<v Speaker 1>you can get over that first thirty days, that's when

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<v Speaker 1>the magic starts to happen. You get the benefits. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and again the main benefit is you start to create

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<v Speaker 1>much more mental clarity and much more emotional stability, so

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<v Speaker 1>less negativity, less negative emotions, more positive emotions, less stress.

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<v Speaker 1>You become less reactive to stressful situations, and you become

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<v Speaker 1>much better at the ability to focus your attention. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's when the goods things start to happen. In terms

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<v Speaker 1>of golf performance.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and I see that personally. I consider golf and

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<v Speaker 2>my swimming, which is my exercise besides walking. Golf courses

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<v Speaker 2>is a moving, moving, meditation.

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<v Speaker 1>M yeah, that's right, me too, That's what I do.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, and to me, that's the preference I can.

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<v Speaker 2>I can move and focus and do that versus just

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<v Speaker 2>sitting and staring at a candle right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Well candle flame is actually easier than sitting

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<v Speaker 1>because the reason why the candle flame is easier for

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<v Speaker 1>people is because it's always it's it never flickers the

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<v Speaker 1>same way. There's a newness, there's a novelty to the

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<v Speaker 1>movement of the candle flame, right yeah, yeah, meditation, And

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<v Speaker 1>once you start to focus the sensations coming from your

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<v Speaker 1>belly as it moves in and out with your breath,

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<v Speaker 1>after you kind of lock in on it, maybe five

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<v Speaker 1>or six seconds later, you suddenly realize, well, this is

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<v Speaker 1>the same sensation pretty much every time. It's not fundamentally different,

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<v Speaker 1>and your mind goes, this is insanely boring. I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to go I'm going to leave my belly and go

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<v Speaker 1>up into my head space where the thoughts stream is

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<v Speaker 1>and entertain myself by thinking about something pleasant that happened

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<v Speaker 1>yesterday or that might happen a week from now. And

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<v Speaker 1>the problem with that is then you then you start daydreaming,

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<v Speaker 1>you get lost in the thoughsterream, You get lost in

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<v Speaker 1>your thoughts, and now you're doing the opposite of what

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<v Speaker 1>you should be doing when you're meditating, right, You're you're

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<v Speaker 1>feeding the thoughtstream. You're feeding the monkey might when you

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<v Speaker 1>do that. So the whole point of it is to

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<v Speaker 1>get out of your head, get out of your headspace,

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<v Speaker 1>and into your physical body by focusing on the sensations

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<v Speaker 1>coming from your body when you're inhaling and exhaling. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>But how to learning how to accept boredom and overcoming it,

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<v Speaker 1>seeing boredom as it interesting challenge that should be overcome

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<v Speaker 1>and not run away from. You know, this constant need

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<v Speaker 1>to entertain ourselves is in itself a form of neurosis. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>There's never been a more entertainment entertainment industrial complex society

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<v Speaker 1>than modern America in the twenty first century. We've we've

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<v Speaker 1>got it. We've got a movie theater in our back pocket,

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<v Speaker 1>your phone. We can constantly, we can constantly distract ourselves

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<v Speaker 1>using the internet, right, yeah, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And And the other thing that I find absolutely fascinating,

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<v Speaker 2>since we're very good at bouncing all over the place

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<v Speaker 2>on these conversations, the thing that I find really fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>is that because of that library movie theater in your

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<v Speaker 2>back pocket. Younger generation, I've noticed people I interact with

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<v Speaker 2>don't value the elder's experience and wisdom that we've gathered

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<v Speaker 2>over decades of life. Yeah, because they're like, well, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't need to ask you. I'll just ask Google, or

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<v Speaker 2>I'll go on Chad GPT and have a conversation and

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<v Speaker 2>get all the wisdom of the world ever recorded in

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<v Speaker 2>my answer.

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<v Speaker 1>I won't.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't need your your thoughts anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, that's a bit. It's a problem socially, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a big cultural and social problem. I think we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to start to see I think it's already starting to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>We're starting to see a little bit of a movement

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<v Speaker 1>away from the more toxic aspects of the Internet. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's going to keep growing with with AI

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<v Speaker 1>coming on strong. But we're gonna see more and more

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<v Speaker 1>of a reaction to I hope, maybe not full on

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<v Speaker 1>ludite like I've been most you know, but maybe semi ludite.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll see, we'll see how it goes.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Jim, you allow me always to get to tracted

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<v Speaker 2>in topics, which kind of shows you how good I

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<v Speaker 2>meditation stuff. So I can't even keep a conversation going

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<v Speaker 2>without changing the topic more than once.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, but we need to make this relate.

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<v Speaker 2>To golfers who are frustrated and struggling.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is golfers. Yeah, no doubt, yeah and yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So my point of all this is that there's in

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<v Speaker 1>a really baseline simple way, when I work with a

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<v Speaker 1>new student on some of this mental game and mindful

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff, it comes down to do they understand the

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<v Speaker 1>difference between the internal world versus the external world? So

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<v Speaker 1>this is called I've came up with this theory forty

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<v Speaker 1>years ago I called the two worlds theory, which is that, again,

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<v Speaker 1>a big part of Buddhism is that we coexist, not

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<v Speaker 1>literally simultaneously, but pretty much potentially simultaneously. We live in

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<v Speaker 1>two different worlds at the same time. There's the physical

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<v Speaker 1>world that science studies, also known as the external world

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<v Speaker 1>or also known as reality. Right. Your body is part

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<v Speaker 1>of that world, although most people don't think of their

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<v Speaker 1>body as part of it. It is that your body

421
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:19.200
<v Speaker 1>exists in the physical world. Right. Then you have a

422
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:23.880
<v Speaker 1>private psychological space, sometimes referred to in philosophy as subjective

423
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 1>world or internal world, right, And one of the principles

424
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:32.240
<v Speaker 1>of the two world theory is that there's a massive

425
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:36.480
<v Speaker 1>wall of separation between those two worlds. They're literally like

426
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.559
<v Speaker 1>oil and water. They do not mix in reality. Now

427
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.559
<v Speaker 1>there's a subjective belief that they kind of intermingle, but

428
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:48.680
<v Speaker 1>that's because people who have that belief just aren't paying

429
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.880
<v Speaker 1>attention because they don't meditate. Right. But when you start

430
00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:54.359
<v Speaker 1>to meditate, you realize I can't be in my internal,

431
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:59.559
<v Speaker 1>private psychological headspace and paying attention to the external world

432
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:02.319
<v Speaker 1>which flutes my body at the same time. I can

433
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:04.319
<v Speaker 1>only be one of those two worlds in terms of

434
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:07.039
<v Speaker 1>my flashlight being, so to speak. Again, if you think

435
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:09.640
<v Speaker 1>of consciousness as a beam of light coming from a flashlight,

436
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.079
<v Speaker 1>the flashlight beam is either pointed externally on the physical world,

437
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:19.319
<v Speaker 1>including your body at the level of kinesthetic or feel awareness,

438
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:23.640
<v Speaker 1>or it's inward and you're paying attention, you're paying to

439
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:28.559
<v Speaker 1>your private subjective psychological space. Another principle of this, which

440
00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:30.759
<v Speaker 1>is really a big one from the Buddhist perspective is

441
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.480
<v Speaker 1>this might be the biggest one, I think in the

442
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:39.839
<v Speaker 1>history of Buddhists thought what Buddhism, what the the experience

443
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.039
<v Speaker 1>of Buddhist monks who spend a lot of time what's

444
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:45.880
<v Speaker 1>studying their mind is is that when you're in your

445
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:51.640
<v Speaker 1>psychological headspace, paying attentions to thoughts, memories, hopes, fears, fantasies

446
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:56.279
<v Speaker 1>of the future, forming beliefs, conclusions, mental pictures, all of

447
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:01.440
<v Speaker 1>that stuff fundamentally that state that psychologie logical stake. Functionally,

448
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:04.960
<v Speaker 1>this is equivalent to dreaming at night, meaning there's a

449
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.839
<v Speaker 1>made up aspect to it. It's kind of like we

450
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:12.240
<v Speaker 1>don't need to put a headset on, like the oculus

451
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:15.200
<v Speaker 1>set set that Microsoft has to go into a digital

452
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.319
<v Speaker 1>simulation world. We have a biological capability to create a

453
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:22.519
<v Speaker 1>digital so to speak, simulation world, and it's the private

454
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:26.440
<v Speaker 1>psychological space we're talking about. We already have that. But

455
00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:30.480
<v Speaker 1>from a psychological suffering standpoint, one of the primary reasons

456
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:35.160
<v Speaker 1>why we suffer psychologically, the secondary, the reactive suffering, is

457
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:40.279
<v Speaker 1>we take everything that takes place in our private psychological space,

458
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.759
<v Speaker 1>we give it as much credibility as we do the

459
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:47.000
<v Speaker 1>physical world, and in most people today, they give it

460
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:50.839
<v Speaker 1>more credibility than the physical world, which is stunning when

461
00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:53.759
<v Speaker 1>you think about it because again, everything that takes place

462
00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:57.559
<v Speaker 1>in that private psychological space has an aspect of what

463
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:02.799
<v Speaker 1>is called symbolic consciousness. If you think of do you

464
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:04.839
<v Speaker 1>know anything about art history? Have you ever studied any

465
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:08.640
<v Speaker 1>art history? No? Okay, So there was a movement in

466
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:12.160
<v Speaker 1>the early twentieth century. There was a Dadaist movement and

467
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:18.759
<v Speaker 1>a Surrealist movement in art, and like the famous Salvator Dahali,

468
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:24.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, the Spanish painter, it looked like dreamscapes. Right.

469
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:30.960
<v Speaker 1>So the purpose of sort of the social purpose, the

470
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:34.640
<v Speaker 1>underlying meaning to both the dataists and the surrealistic movement

471
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.839
<v Speaker 1>in art history was to help people wake up, to

472
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:42.279
<v Speaker 1>differentiate the clear distinction between a symbol compared to the

473
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.279
<v Speaker 1>reality that the symbol points to. And when you're in

474
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:50.480
<v Speaker 1>symbolic consciousness, there's a conflation between the symbol and the reality.

475
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:52.920
<v Speaker 1>So you know the old phrase, this was a big

476
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:58.240
<v Speaker 1>slogan back in the sixties, the map is not the territory. Yeah,

477
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:00.200
<v Speaker 1>a map is a map. A map is not the

478
00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:03.920
<v Speaker 1>same thing as the actual physical landscape that the map represents,

479
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:07.599
<v Speaker 1>right right, And a word is not the same thing

480
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:10.119
<v Speaker 1>as the object in the physical universe. So if I

481
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:15.039
<v Speaker 1>say the word flower, right, And after I say the

482
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.559
<v Speaker 1>word in my private headspace, I then go into internal

483
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:21.680
<v Speaker 1>visual mode and I picture a flower. So the word

484
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:24.400
<v Speaker 1>flower is not the same thing as an actual flower,

485
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.240
<v Speaker 1>and a visual image of a flower in my head

486
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:30.920
<v Speaker 1>space is not the same thing as an actual flower.

487
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:35.680
<v Speaker 1>There's there's a fundamental difference between the word flower or

488
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:40.559
<v Speaker 1>picturing flower and an actual flower. Right. So, anytime you're

489
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:43.640
<v Speaker 1>talking to yourself, if you're doing what's called verbal thinking,

490
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.920
<v Speaker 1>where you hear your own voice in your head using language,

491
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:51.599
<v Speaker 1>or anytime you're picturing something in your mind's eye visually functionally,

492
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:55.000
<v Speaker 1>that's the same thing that happens when you're asleep at night,

493
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.319
<v Speaker 1>when you're dreaming, you're engaging in symbolic consciousness. And in

494
00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:01.400
<v Speaker 1>both cases, when you're dreaming until you finally wake up

495
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:03.160
<v Speaker 1>and go, oh, I must be having a nightmare, and

496
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:05.359
<v Speaker 1>then you wake up. But until the moment you sort

497
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:08.440
<v Speaker 1>of realize I must be dreaming, people don't think of

498
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:10.240
<v Speaker 1>it as a dream. They think of it as being real,

499
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:14.559
<v Speaker 1>right when you're in normal dreaming, right and in normal consciousness.

500
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.799
<v Speaker 1>People take everything that takes place in their private psychological

501
00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:23.240
<v Speaker 1>space way too seriously, way too credibly. So Therefore, if

502
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.839
<v Speaker 1>an average person suddenly had a series of very negative

503
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.920
<v Speaker 1>thoughts come into consciousness, like disturbing, highly negative thoughts, they

504
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:37.160
<v Speaker 1>will react to those thoughts as if the situation the

505
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.400
<v Speaker 1>thoughts are depicting was actually happening right now, when in

506
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.359
<v Speaker 1>the point of fact, they might have happened twenty years ago,

507
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.319
<v Speaker 1>but you'll experience it as being almost as real as

508
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.279
<v Speaker 1>the original of that twenty years ago. But if a

509
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.839
<v Speaker 1>Buddhist monk had a thought of something that happened twenty

510
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.960
<v Speaker 1>years enter his mind, he would think, oh, that's interesting,

511
00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:58.519
<v Speaker 1>I wonder why I'm thinking about that, and then he

512
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:00.799
<v Speaker 1>would let it go. He wouldn't have any emotional or

513
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:06.079
<v Speaker 1>psychological reaction to that shain of thought. Zero. Yeah, So

514
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:08.319
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of where we're going, where we should be going.

515
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:11.359
<v Speaker 1>I think as metal game coach is more about get

516
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.400
<v Speaker 1>down to the nitty gritty the application, less about the ideal,

517
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.000
<v Speaker 1>more about how do I actually do something pragmatic to

518
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:21.559
<v Speaker 1>get to the ideal state? Right right?

519
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:24.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, the whole point here, and the

520
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:30.680
<v Speaker 2>theme of your conversation is understanding how consciousness works to

521
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.160
<v Speaker 2>improve the golf mental game.

522
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:34.759
<v Speaker 1>So how do we.

523
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Reel it back in to our golf game.

524
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, Well again, it comes down to when you

525
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.400
<v Speaker 1>start to start, when you get your sort of foothold

526
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:52.039
<v Speaker 1>through some type of daily meditation practice. There's many different

527
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:54.599
<v Speaker 1>forms of meditation, but as long as you're doing something daily,

528
00:30:55.759 --> 00:31:00.440
<v Speaker 1>you'll start to notice what's called detachment or non attachment

529
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.880
<v Speaker 1>and Buddhist philosophy, which means in the past, when a

530
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:06.759
<v Speaker 1>negative thought chain would enter your head or a negative

531
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:10.160
<v Speaker 1>emotion would enter your body, you would start reacting to

532
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:12.319
<v Speaker 1>it like, oh, I don't like this feeling. I wish

533
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:14.640
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't feeling scared now on the first ted because

534
00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:18.960
<v Speaker 1>people are watching me, right. But when you meditate on

535
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:23.160
<v Speaker 1>a regular basis, you may notice those feelings of nervousness

536
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:28.359
<v Speaker 1>or performance anxiety. But because there's less attachment to the

537
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.079
<v Speaker 1>negative thoughts and the negative emotion, the emotion of fear,

538
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:37.119
<v Speaker 1>Because you're less absorbed into the negativity, there's a sense

539
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.480
<v Speaker 1>of what is called psychological space between the negative thought

540
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.720
<v Speaker 1>or the negative emotion and your sense of personal identity.

541
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Once you have that sense of space, the intensity level

542
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:51.519
<v Speaker 1>of the negative thoughts and the negative emotion goes way

543
00:31:51.559 --> 00:32:01.680
<v Speaker 1>down to a more manageable level. Jim, you lost me.

544
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:05.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry. I don't know where you're going.

545
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.119
<v Speaker 2>And I and I'm struggling to figure out how to

546
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:12.079
<v Speaker 2>make this relevant to what I'm struggling with when I'm

547
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:12.799
<v Speaker 2>playing golf.

548
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I got you. Well, Because again, this is something

549
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.000
<v Speaker 1>you have to experience because otherwise it's just more symbols

550
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.680
<v Speaker 1>that are going in people's ears. Okay, yeah, yeah, okay.

551
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:26.279
<v Speaker 1>It has to be a lived experience. So when you meditate, right.

552
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:33.240
<v Speaker 2>So you're so you're advocating medicaid, medication, meditation and medication maybe,

553
00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:36.519
<v Speaker 2>but you're advocating.

554
00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:43.880
<v Speaker 1>Meditation. Just take the drugs, need to mas. There we go,

555
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:45.240
<v Speaker 1>Let's get back to the sixties.

556
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:47.119
<v Speaker 2>We had it right the first time.

557
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:51.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it so lives experience. So what I can

558
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:54.000
<v Speaker 1>just tell you what I can talk about my personal experience,

559
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.200
<v Speaker 1>but I can also many thousands of people I've taught

560
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.279
<v Speaker 1>how to meditate over the last four years. This is

561
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:02.839
<v Speaker 1>a known thing in the meditation sort of the mindfulness

562
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:05.880
<v Speaker 1>community that after about a month of doing some form

563
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:10.599
<v Speaker 1>of daily mindfulness practice, everybody reports this. This is a

564
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:14.880
<v Speaker 1>universal experience. I feel less wrapped up in my neurosis.

565
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:18.400
<v Speaker 1>I feel less captured by You know, when people have

566
00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:22.519
<v Speaker 1>a really neurotic mindset, they often describe it as I'm

567
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:24.839
<v Speaker 1>walking down the street and it's a beautiful sunny day

568
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.039
<v Speaker 1>and next thing I know, a dark cloud passes over,

569
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:30.200
<v Speaker 1>and the next thing I know, I'm inside a tornado

570
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.759
<v Speaker 1>and there's powerful winds sucking me up into the sky.

571
00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:38.079
<v Speaker 1>With someone's having a very powerful negative psychological experience, both

572
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:41.160
<v Speaker 1>mentally and emotionally. That's people often describe it as like

573
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:45.880
<v Speaker 1>being stuck inside a tornado, where the fear, the stress,

574
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:48.960
<v Speaker 1>the anxiety, the depression, the anger, and all the mental

575
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:52.519
<v Speaker 1>chaos that surrounds it is so overwhelming that you feel

576
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:56.599
<v Speaker 1>that you're it's like consuming you, that you're inside of it. Right,

577
00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 1>But when you meditate, it's like the tornadoes a mile

578
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.200
<v Speaker 1>away and you're here safe on the side of the road,

579
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:04.839
<v Speaker 1>and you're noticing the dark clouds and the tornado, but

580
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.480
<v Speaker 1>it's so far away you don't feel threatened by it

581
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.159
<v Speaker 1>because you're not actually threatened by it. That's what happens.

582
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:12.280
<v Speaker 1>That's called detachment or non attachment.

583
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'm assuming you meditate regularly.

584
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I've been doing it since I was ten

585
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:21.559
<v Speaker 1>years old. I'm seventy four and now I've been doing

586
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:26.280
<v Speaker 1>it for sixty four years. Daily different daily, Yeah, yeah,

587
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:30.480
<v Speaker 1>not just daily. I do it all the time. For it. Yeah,

588
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:33.679
<v Speaker 1>I'll just tell you a story about it. But here's

589
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:34.360
<v Speaker 1>my question.

590
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.599
<v Speaker 2>And you're gonna plow, You're gonna floor on this one.

591
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

592
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:45.519
<v Speaker 2>So you're talking about how come all these you're talking about,

593
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:48.360
<v Speaker 2>how meditation can really help you get through all these

594
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:53.320
<v Speaker 2>challenging elements of your life and carry you through it.

595
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.000
<v Speaker 2>How come you're you do the exact thing you're saying

596
00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.440
<v Speaker 2>not to do whenever you get near your computer.

597
00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:05.599
<v Speaker 1>Gotcha, Jimmy, that's the game polling effect, right.

598
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.679
<v Speaker 2>It's like we every time we want to record, it's

599
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:12.039
<v Speaker 2>like forty five minutes of trying to get you online,

600
00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:13.440
<v Speaker 2>and we just like, forget it. We'll just do this

601
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.719
<v Speaker 2>on the phone like we're doing today. We're just we'll

602
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:20.239
<v Speaker 2>just make it easy. But you know, you're you're talking

603
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:21.599
<v Speaker 2>a good game, and then you do this.

604
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, No, that's a whole other, that's a whole

605
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.920
<v Speaker 1>that's an apple. That's what's the great the monual compon

606
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:33.559
<v Speaker 1>call it categorical error. Those are apples and oranges. Okay, totally.

607
00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:37.239
<v Speaker 2>So I've now, you know, like I've been doing morning

608
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.000
<v Speaker 2>stretch morning yoga for for decades myself, and now just

609
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:45.800
<v Speaker 2>recently I've started doing this at night before I go

610
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:49.199
<v Speaker 2>to sleep. I'll do twenty ten to twenty minutes of

611
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:52.199
<v Speaker 2>yoga just to see if I can fall asleep faster

612
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:53.320
<v Speaker 2>and stay asleep.

613
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:56.000
<v Speaker 1>And it's been helping me a lot. Cool.

614
00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:59.039
<v Speaker 2>But this is we're not that's not meditation. This is

615
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.800
<v Speaker 2>completely different then it can be.

616
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Basically, meditation has two main aspects. These are most Buddhist

617
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:10.880
<v Speaker 1>scholars would agree with you, and we want to say

618
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:14.079
<v Speaker 1>that and there and they're developmental and their sequential. There's

619
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:17.000
<v Speaker 1>a sequence to it, which is a get back to

620
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:19.719
<v Speaker 1>the analogy of the raging river that you're trying not

621
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.280
<v Speaker 1>to drown in. Right, that's the normal state of conscious

622
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:27.440
<v Speaker 1>So samata practice means narrow focus on one thing or concentration.

623
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:32.559
<v Speaker 1>The positive practice means your mind's in big mode, super

624
00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:36.079
<v Speaker 1>wide modes. It means it basically means the positive means

625
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:40.400
<v Speaker 1>big empty mind, but it also means the insights that

626
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:44.360
<v Speaker 1>you can gain about the nature of consciousness and the

627
00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:47.000
<v Speaker 1>nature of the physical world when you're in that big

628
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.559
<v Speaker 1>empty mind. But my view, and again most scholars would

629
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:53.679
<v Speaker 1>agree with this, is that you can't learn and you're

630
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:56.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of wasting your time doing the possitive practice until

631
00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:01.119
<v Speaker 1>you do samata practice first, which narrow focus will eventually

632
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:04.880
<v Speaker 1>lead to the ability to have a bigger focus, you know,

633
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:10.119
<v Speaker 1>a wider awareness, but without having chaos, whereas again a

634
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:13.079
<v Speaker 1>normal consciousness where you haven't done any practice. Most people

635
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:15.800
<v Speaker 1>most of the time are in medium wide or even

636
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:18.199
<v Speaker 1>super wide mode, and their mind is full of all

637
00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:22.119
<v Speaker 1>kinds of thoughts and emotions. It's just a casual chaos.

638
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:25.519
<v Speaker 1>So the analogy in Buddhism again is to the beam

639
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:27.599
<v Speaker 1>of light. Right, So if you think of a flashlight being,

640
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:32.280
<v Speaker 1>so consciousness is the being. But imagine that the lens

641
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:37.119
<v Speaker 1>cover covering you know, where the bulb, where the actual

642
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:40.880
<v Speaker 1>flashlight bulb is, has got a lot of dirt on it, right,

643
00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:43.760
<v Speaker 1>And so part of Buddhists practice is you're trying you're

644
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:46.440
<v Speaker 1>trying to make the beam of light brighter and clearer

645
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:50.199
<v Speaker 1>and stronger by removing the impediments that you know, the

646
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:54.400
<v Speaker 1>dirt that's covering the lens. Yeah, that's one aspect, and

647
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.679
<v Speaker 1>I'll give you an actual story. My son and I

648
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.920
<v Speaker 1>traveled to northern Burma in twenty twelve. We were doing

649
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:03.840
<v Speaker 1>a three month trip all throughout Southeast Asia, mainly hanging

650
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:08.360
<v Speaker 1>out with monasteries with monks, and there were three hermits

651
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:10.679
<v Speaker 1>living in a cave in the foothills of the Himalaya

652
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Mountains in northern Berner were borders Tibet and one. It

653
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:18.719
<v Speaker 1>was about an eight mile hike to get up there,

654
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:20.880
<v Speaker 1>up the mountain trail, but my son tie and we

655
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:22.239
<v Speaker 1>went up and we hiked up there. I wanted to

656
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:23.880
<v Speaker 1>talk to him, and I talked to the head guy,

657
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:27.000
<v Speaker 1>who spoke fluent English, and I said, well, tell me

658
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:28.800
<v Speaker 1>what the life of a cave monk is like. What

659
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.079
<v Speaker 1>do you guys do all day? And of course I

660
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:32.880
<v Speaker 1>knew what they do. They read Buddhist scriptures and they

661
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:36.400
<v Speaker 1>meditate all the time. And I said, well, what do

662
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:38.519
<v Speaker 1>you like about it? He goes, Jim, Here's the thing,

663
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:41.239
<v Speaker 1>he goes, I've been a Buddhist monk for fifteen years.

664
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.519
<v Speaker 1>I've been a cave monk for five and the main

665
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.400
<v Speaker 1>benefit of what I do here is I have a

666
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:53.119
<v Speaker 1>very clean mind. He used the word clean to describe

667
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:55.480
<v Speaker 1>his awareness, his beam of luck. I mean he's been

668
00:38:55.519 --> 00:39:00.239
<v Speaker 1>working on removing the dirt that's blocking the light right.

669
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:04.599
<v Speaker 1>Another aspect of it is the ability to have a

670
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:06.760
<v Speaker 1>measure of control, and this is the most important one

671
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.800
<v Speaker 1>for golfers. You have to be if you want to

672
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:11.519
<v Speaker 1>play your best, if you want to be good at

673
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:14.480
<v Speaker 1>the mental game, you have to have the ability to

674
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.159
<v Speaker 1>direct the beam of light where you choose to direct

675
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:19.960
<v Speaker 1>it and hold it there at least for a few seconds.

676
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:23.280
<v Speaker 1>That's the skill of focused attention. You have talked to

677
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:25.280
<v Speaker 1>me and my buddy Carl Morris, we've talked about this

678
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:28.800
<v Speaker 1>on his podcast. He's been on your podcast talking about this.

679
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, the skill of focused attention. You have to

680
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:34.840
<v Speaker 1>be able to hold that flash flight in your hand,

681
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:37.639
<v Speaker 1>so to speak, and hold it on any object. You

682
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:39.000
<v Speaker 1>put it on a you know, you put it on

683
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:41.159
<v Speaker 1>target picture, for example, and you hold it there for

684
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:44.960
<v Speaker 1>a few seconds. And again, with normal consciousness, that's not

685
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:46.280
<v Speaker 1>a thing you're going to be able to do. With

686
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:49.400
<v Speaker 1>normal consciousness, You'll start out holding it there and half

687
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:52.480
<v Speaker 1>a second later, it'll instinctively the flashlight will move in

688
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.960
<v Speaker 1>your hand and go somewhere else, and you'll lose focus.

689
00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:57.920
<v Speaker 1>And that's why the skill of focused attention is so

690
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:01.960
<v Speaker 1>important in the met game, you know, m So, what

691
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:07.880
<v Speaker 1>are the rules of the road we've been discussing. These

692
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:09.679
<v Speaker 1>are some of them. There's there's there's a whole bunch.

693
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:14.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, can we build Is it possible to bullet

694
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:16.360
<v Speaker 2>point this or is it just the long conversation?

695
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:19.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we started with the two worlds theory. I

696
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:21.840
<v Speaker 1>think that's probably the You need to be able to

697
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:26.000
<v Speaker 1>understand that you can't be in the external world. You

698
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:28.280
<v Speaker 1>can't be paying attention to the external world and your

699
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:30.440
<v Speaker 1>internal world at the same time. It's either it's one

700
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:33.480
<v Speaker 1>or the other. That you can't be both right on

701
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:37.599
<v Speaker 1>the holding the attention one is another big one. The

702
00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:40.280
<v Speaker 1>three sizes, the super wide, the medium wide, the narrow

703
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:44.199
<v Speaker 1>is another another one which we should talk about. Is

704
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:49.159
<v Speaker 1>this might be the most important one. Uh. The essential difference,

705
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:53.360
<v Speaker 1>even more essential than what I already mentioned between a

706
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:56.119
<v Speaker 1>mindful state of mind and a chaotic state of mind,

707
00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:58.880
<v Speaker 1>is that the modern term we've used that you and

708
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:02.440
<v Speaker 1>I have talked about this the podcasts called meta awareness.

709
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Meta awareness would be imagine that your normal consciousness is

710
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:11.480
<v Speaker 1>the flashlight beam. Imagine there's a smaller flashlight bolted to

711
00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the big flashlight, and the purpose of the beam of

712
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:17.199
<v Speaker 1>light coming from a small flashlight is to always focus

713
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:19.920
<v Speaker 1>on where the big flashlight beam of light is focusing,

714
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:23.440
<v Speaker 1>so you always know where am I paying where am

715
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:26.639
<v Speaker 1>I actually paying attention right now in this moment. And

716
00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:29.280
<v Speaker 1>if it turns out you're paying attentions in a bad place,

717
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:32.559
<v Speaker 1>a place that could trigger a yip for example, or

718
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:35.840
<v Speaker 1>a flinch, or just a you know, like a poorly

719
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:41.079
<v Speaker 1>timed tempo or a poorly time release. If you recognize

720
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.960
<v Speaker 1>my mind goes to a place that then triggers some

721
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:47.159
<v Speaker 1>type of a breakdown in the mind body connection, or

722
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:49.920
<v Speaker 1>just a bad swing is the result when my mind

723
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:56.039
<v Speaker 1>wanders off. Right, knowing that that mind wandering off is

724
00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:58.119
<v Speaker 1>the main cause or even the only cause of the

725
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:02.320
<v Speaker 1>bad swing can be a great help because now you

726
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.280
<v Speaker 1>have the opportunity to learn from your mistakes. But when

727
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:09.159
<v Speaker 1>someone lacks meta like let's say, let's keep it real simple,

728
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Speaker 1>let's someone's the typical golfer mid the high handicapper comes

729
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:14.840
<v Speaker 1>over the top generally speaking, right, most people do so

730
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:17.119
<v Speaker 1>that things their path is out to end, and if

731
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:19.719
<v Speaker 1>they don't compensate by changing the face angle, they hit

732
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:23.599
<v Speaker 1>the ball left right like a dead pull. If that's

733
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.679
<v Speaker 1>their flaw and they're trying to figure out how to

734
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:31.840
<v Speaker 1>fix it, but they're not actually aware in the moment

735
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:35.280
<v Speaker 1>of how it is that their body creates the over

736
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:38.639
<v Speaker 1>the top move. If they're not aware of it, even

737
00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:40.559
<v Speaker 1>if I show them on video, if I say, Joe,

738
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:42.920
<v Speaker 1>here's you come on over the top, blah blah blah,

739
00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:45.000
<v Speaker 1>it's just it's just a waste of time. They're not

740
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:46.840
<v Speaker 1>going to they're not going to learn anything. They're not

741
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:48.440
<v Speaker 1>going to be able to stop coming over the top.

742
00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:51.400
<v Speaker 1>They have to be aware of how it is in

743
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.440
<v Speaker 1>the moment that the flaw is happening. How is this

744
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:57.079
<v Speaker 1>flaw manifesting in my body? When you can feel it,

745
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.719
<v Speaker 1>when you can experience the flaw happened with a with

746
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:04.519
<v Speaker 1>a measure of mental clarity, you know again the beam

747
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:07.960
<v Speaker 1>of light idea, and you know that you know that

748
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:09.760
<v Speaker 1>this is how you come over the top, then there's

749
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:11.639
<v Speaker 1>a chance you can start to break through and stop

750
00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:19.880
<v Speaker 1>doing the flow. Can we talk about some other forms

751
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:24.760
<v Speaker 1>of practice besides the candlelight? Sure, Okay, you'll like this one.

752
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:26.639
<v Speaker 1>I think as you mentioned swimming, because I do the

753
00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:28.599
<v Speaker 1>same thing when I every day and twice a day.

754
00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:30.480
<v Speaker 1>When I'm in Hawaii in the winter, I swim in

755
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:34.400
<v Speaker 1>the Pacific Ocean, and you talk about so I focus

756
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.280
<v Speaker 1>on the feeling in my body of me doing the

757
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:41.760
<v Speaker 1>breaststroke as my preferred stroke. So I'm I'm literally my

758
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:46.079
<v Speaker 1>consciousness is feeling my muscles contract and move my arms

759
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:49.239
<v Speaker 1>and my legs as I'm swimming. I'm not thinking about anything.

760
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm feeling the sensations coming from my body doing doing

761
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:56.320
<v Speaker 1>the swimming stroke. Right. There's some there's a similar one

762
00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:59.880
<v Speaker 1>that's a little bit probably easier to understand, but it's

763
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:05.039
<v Speaker 1>phoned walking meditation, right, and walking meditation. I always console

764
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:07.400
<v Speaker 1>my students do like a fifteen minute walk or longer,

765
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:11.159
<v Speaker 1>but at least fifteen minutes daily around your neighborhood by yourself.

766
00:44:11.239 --> 00:44:13.239
<v Speaker 1>You won't work if you're talking of somebody else, won't

767
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:14.840
<v Speaker 1>work if you if you have a dog on the leak.

768
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:17.039
<v Speaker 1>So it's got to be by yourself. But what you

769
00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:20.559
<v Speaker 1>do is every you look at you look at an

770
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:22.440
<v Speaker 1>object in the fist. So you look at a tree

771
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:24.400
<v Speaker 1>and you look at it for about two to three

772
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:28.840
<v Speaker 1>seconds max. And you simply notice the size, tolerant shape

773
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:31.599
<v Speaker 1>of the object you're looking at. And when I say notice,

774
00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:33.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't mean going internal and hearing a voice in

775
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.599
<v Speaker 1>your head say, oh, that's that's a point. That's a

776
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:41.519
<v Speaker 1>black trunked pine tree with green needles. That would be

777
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.079
<v Speaker 1>that would be going internal and having an internal reaction.

778
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.639
<v Speaker 1>I mean simply pay attention with your eyeballs, with external

779
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:52.840
<v Speaker 1>visual and notice into in two to three second time interval,

780
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:55.880
<v Speaker 1>notice something about the tree, then switch and look at

781
00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:57.880
<v Speaker 1>the next object and look at a car parked down

782
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:01.760
<v Speaker 1>the street and notice that it's a red camry, and

783
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:05.079
<v Speaker 1>then look at someone walking towards you. So every two

784
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:08.119
<v Speaker 1>to three seconds, you're shifting your gaze with your eyeballs

785
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:11.119
<v Speaker 1>to a different physical object in the world. And the

786
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:14.000
<v Speaker 1>goal is to stay external the whole time. And this

787
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:16.000
<v Speaker 1>is why you don't want to look fred for more

788
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:18.159
<v Speaker 1>than about three seconds, because if you look at any

789
00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:22.320
<v Speaker 1>object for more than three seconds, most people will automatically

790
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.800
<v Speaker 1>go internal and start thinking about the object. Wow, right,

791
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:27.480
<v Speaker 1>they get triggered by it.

792
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

793
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. If you don't look for more than two to

794
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:34.440
<v Speaker 1>three seconds, you're less likely to go internal and start

795
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:36.639
<v Speaker 1>having a thought reaction to the thing you were looking at.

796
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:39.880
<v Speaker 1>So that's a powerful way to get to get to

797
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:41.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of get your foot in the door in terms

798
00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:48.400
<v Speaker 1>of mindfulness practice. Yeah. Interesting. Another one is and you

799
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.360
<v Speaker 1>can well you can you can plan going to down

800
00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:53.440
<v Speaker 1>to Baja this year. Are you going down there a

801
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:56.679
<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks? Oh? Perfect. So if you sit on

802
00:45:56.679 --> 00:46:00.480
<v Speaker 1>this east you sit on the beach, and this is

803
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:03.079
<v Speaker 1>I call this wave meditation. So you listen to the

804
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:07.400
<v Speaker 1>sound of the wave breaking on the shoreline, and you're

805
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:11.199
<v Speaker 1>in this case, you're in one hundred percent external auditory channel,

806
00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:13.960
<v Speaker 1>so you're you're only paying attention to the sound of

807
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.920
<v Speaker 1>the waves crashing with your ears. And of course there'll

808
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:20.000
<v Speaker 1>be a moment where there's no sound at all, There'll

809
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:23.440
<v Speaker 1>be an empty space in between the waves, right, so

810
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:24.000
<v Speaker 1>you'll hear like.

811
00:46:25.719 --> 00:46:29.960
<v Speaker 2>And then and then one of my all time favorite sounds.

812
00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:32.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, me too. I go to sleep at

813
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:34.400
<v Speaker 1>it night because I'm where I live in Hawaii's right

814
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:39.320
<v Speaker 1>on the beach. Perfect. So that's that's that's using sound

815
00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:41.599
<v Speaker 1>as a as an anchor for your mind. So you're

816
00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:44.440
<v Speaker 1>in narrow focused mode, just paying attention to the sound

817
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:46.639
<v Speaker 1>of the wave and in the shore. That's another great one,

818
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:52.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of beginning level of meditation practice mhm uh as always.

819
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:57.000
<v Speaker 2>It's balance Point golf dot Com with Jim Waldron and

820
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:01.079
<v Speaker 2>your website is you've definitely done some work on it.

821
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.400
<v Speaker 2>This is great. I can see that and it lists

822
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:08.639
<v Speaker 2>all the different podcasts you've been on and will we

823
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:13.320
<v Speaker 2>golf Sport gets mentioned in there too, you're yeah, but

824
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:16.760
<v Speaker 2>you also have in your little pro shop area. You've

825
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:19.400
<v Speaker 2>got a lot of new videos. This is all new

826
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:20.760
<v Speaker 2>for you.

827
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.039
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not that new. Haven't talked about it before.

828
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Those have been around. Well, yeah, because you have a

829
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:27.840
<v Speaker 1>lot of work. The newest one is going to hopefully

830
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.639
<v Speaker 1>be out probably junior July.

831
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:35.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's twenty six, Yeah, next year.

832
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:38.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm working on short game stuff. But it's I've been

833
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:40.440
<v Speaker 1>so busy teaching because I have to do some of

834
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:44.159
<v Speaker 1>the basic editing myself, and then I a student of

835
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.320
<v Speaker 1>mine from New Zealand does he does. He does the

836
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:47.679
<v Speaker 1>ball of the editing, but I have to kind of

837
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:50.079
<v Speaker 1>get it lined out for him. I've been so busy teaching,

838
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.199
<v Speaker 1>I had to put it on hold. But I think

839
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:55.360
<v Speaker 1>I'll have some time starting the spinner to work on it.

840
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:58.920
<v Speaker 1>So when are you going to retire? You know, I

841
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:01.199
<v Speaker 1>love what I do so much, Fred, I just the

842
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:03.320
<v Speaker 1>whole idea of retirement doesn't make sense to me. I

843
00:48:03.639 --> 00:48:06.599
<v Speaker 1>love what I do, and I'm helping people anyway. For the YIPS, Yeah,

844
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:09.079
<v Speaker 1>I mean I'm getting more and more people with YIPS.

845
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:12.199
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I've had I've had three people so far

846
00:48:12.280 --> 00:48:16.559
<v Speaker 1>this week contact me with YIPS. It's getting me be

847
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:20.000
<v Speaker 1>the global pandemics. So between the YIPS stuff and just

848
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:21.800
<v Speaker 1>general metal game, but I also do a lot of

849
00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:24.679
<v Speaker 1>swing instruction. I do a ton of short game instruction,

850
00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:28.400
<v Speaker 1>short game mechanics, so I've been it's been very, very

851
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:29.199
<v Speaker 1>busy for sure.

852
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:32.599
<v Speaker 2>That's great, buddy, that's great. I'm so happy to hear it. Well,

853
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:34.840
<v Speaker 2>it's as always, it's great to talk to you. It's

854
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:40.360
<v Speaker 2>always an education that takes us to places we don't

855
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:43.079
<v Speaker 2>usually think about when we're playing golf, and I think

856
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:45.079
<v Speaker 2>this is really important information.

857
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:48.480
<v Speaker 1>So thanks man. Yeah, great, Well, thanks for having me on, Fred, really,

858
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:51.280
<v Speaker 1>and thanks again for having me on for all these years.

859
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:53.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it was two thousand and five, so this

860
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:57.800
<v Speaker 1>is a twenty years we've been doing it. Yeah. Pretty cool,

861
00:48:57.840 --> 00:48:58.880
<v Speaker 1>pretty cool journey with you.

862
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and of you as well, my friend yeah, thanks

863
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:02.239
<v Speaker 2>your friend.

864
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm
