WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. In

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<v Speaker 1>this episode, we're heading back to the prelim hearing from

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<v Speaker 1>Tyler Robinson and picking up where he left off with

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<v Speaker 1>the transcripts from day number one. Grunander, Okay, going back

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<v Speaker 1>to when you heard the gunshot, could you tell where

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<v Speaker 1>it came from as far as the direction. Answer? I

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<v Speaker 1>knew it came from the east to me. Question from

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<v Speaker 1>the east of you you see this realization come to

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<v Speaker 1>your mind? What did you do next? Answer? At that moment,

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<v Speaker 1>when I saw the holster, the empty holster, I turned

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<v Speaker 1>to my chief and said that was a empty holster.

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<v Speaker 1>I turned to my chief and said that was a

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<v Speaker 1>rifle shot, and he said, I agree. And I looked

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<v Speaker 1>up at that moment, right in the line of sight,

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<v Speaker 1>I could see the Losie Building had a direct line

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<v Speaker 1>of sight. So I proceeded to go look at that

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<v Speaker 1>and see what was going on up there. Question, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so can you just briefly describe your route to the

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<v Speaker 1>Losi Center. Answer? So, from the courtyard, you can go

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<v Speaker 1>into the Sorenson Center. And like I said earlier, there

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<v Speaker 1>was on level one, there's some elevators or there's stairs.

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<v Speaker 1>I ran up four flights of stairs. I got to

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<v Speaker 1>the fourth level of the Loci building and proceeded to

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<v Speaker 1>the south of the Loci building. There are some stairs,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that breezeway between the Computer Science building and

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<v Speaker 1>the Loci building. There are some stairs that go up

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<v Speaker 1>to the top of that, and then so I went

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<v Speaker 1>to the top of that. Question is that the stairway

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<v Speaker 1>that you previously described gets cut off by the officer? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>on the outside of the Loci building. Question by Grunnander. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>And is it a public stairway? Answer yeah. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>did you make it to the rooftop? Answer? I did?

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<v Speaker 1>Question do you know about what time you got there? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I got up there around twelve forty four. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>what did you do when you got on top? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>When I got on top, I hopped over the guard rail.

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<v Speaker 1>I noticed that there was an object which was sitting

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<v Speaker 1>right about ten or fifteen feet in front of the

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<v Speaker 1>other side of the guardrail in the gravel that looked

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<v Speaker 1>out a place to me. Question and in the relationship

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<v Speaker 1>to where you hopped over the guardrail, what direction was

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<v Speaker 1>that object? Answer to the west of the guardrail? Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>did you recognize the object. Answer I did. Question and

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<v Speaker 1>what was it? Answer? It was a red and black screwdriver.

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<v Speaker 1>Question Okay, did you touch that object? Answer? I did not.

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<v Speaker 1>Question Okay, I'm going to refer the witness on your screen,

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<v Speaker 1>Officer Bagley to State Exhibit three dot one. Let me

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<v Speaker 1>know when you see that. Answer, yeah, I see it.

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<v Speaker 1>Question do you recognize what this is? Answer? I do?

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<v Speaker 1>Question and what is that? Answer? That's a picture of

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<v Speaker 1>the screwdriver that I saw that day on top of

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<v Speaker 1>the rooftop of the Low C building. Question okay, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's how it appeared on the roof that day. Answer yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Question is that a fair and accurate portrayal of the

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<v Speaker 1>screwdriver you observed and found that day? Answer yes, Grunander,

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<v Speaker 1>your honor. The State offers State's Exhibit three dot one.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Graph ms Nestor, your honor, we renew, excuse me,

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<v Speaker 1>we renew our standing objection, and we object on the

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<v Speaker 1>grounds that there's no foundation laid as to when the

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<v Speaker 1>photo was taken or by whom. Thank you, Grunander, Sam response,

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<v Speaker 1>Judge my previous arguments, Judge graph, and did you state

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<v Speaker 1>that this was a fair and accurate representation of September tenth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four. Grunander, I had said that day. I'll

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<v Speaker 1>ask it again to the officer. Officer Bagley, you saw

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<v Speaker 1>this screwdriver you were describing on September tenth, twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that correct? Answer? Yes, Grunander. Is State Exhibit three

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<v Speaker 1>dot one a fair and accurate depiction of that screwdriver

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<v Speaker 1>that day September tenth, twenty twenty five. Answer yes, Judge Graph,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll go ahead and admit State's exhibit three dot one,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's admitted based off the first hand inaudible knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>of what this image purports to be and is a

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<v Speaker 1>fair and accurate representation as this item on the date

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<v Speaker 1>of September tenth, twenty twenty five, and this exhibit may

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<v Speaker 1>be published. Question your honor before we continue to publish

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<v Speaker 1>and ask a few more questions. Right now, might be

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<v Speaker 1>a good time to take a break. Judge Graph, All right, Grunander,

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<v Speaker 1>Is that okay with the court? Judge Graph, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>let's come back at so ten forty three. Let's go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and come back around ten forty four. Let's come

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<v Speaker 1>back at eleven o'clock, and then we'll resume direct examination.

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<v Speaker 1>Court is in brief recess, so they come back and

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<v Speaker 1>Grunander and Judge Graf are having a conversation. Judge Graph,

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<v Speaker 1>you want to test it from here? Grunander, yes, sir,

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<v Speaker 1>it should be up now, Judge Graph, Well, this is

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<v Speaker 1>turned off right now, Grunander, the clerk controls it. I

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<v Speaker 1>just have to publish and they'll decide what monitor it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to go on. Grunnander, Yeah, I still want to

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<v Speaker 1>set it up now, Judge Graph. I'm actually just going

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<v Speaker 1>to be here for the rest of the day, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>So we're going to skip through the rest of this

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<v Speaker 1>and get back to the questioning. Judge Graph, please be seated.

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<v Speaker 1>Court is back in session. Before we get started, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to clarify on the record that pursu into the

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<v Speaker 1>Utah Constitution Section one, I'm sorry, Article one, Section twenty eight,

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<v Speaker 1>where victims and victim representatives are entitled to be treated

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<v Speaker 1>with dignity and respect that if they choose to leave

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<v Speaker 1>the courtroom, they can come back whenever they wish. They're

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<v Speaker 1>not prohibited to coming back solely at the break. So

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<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to clarify that in case there was

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<v Speaker 1>any question about that. In addition, I want to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the exhibits as it relates to their admission and

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<v Speaker 1>publication of the exhibit. So whenever there is an objection

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<v Speaker 1>to an exhibit, I would ask that the attorneys are

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<v Speaker 1>clear specifically what they're objecting to. There's basically three levels

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<v Speaker 1>of objections that can be objected to the admittance of

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<v Speaker 1>the exhibit itself, Second is the publication of the exhibit

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<v Speaker 1>to the gallery, and third is the publication which is

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<v Speaker 1>electronically captured by the media. So, Council, I'll leave it

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<v Speaker 1>to you in regards to what you object to or

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<v Speaker 1>what you wish to respond to. If no objection to

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<v Speaker 1>the publication media capture of the exhibit is specifically raised,

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<v Speaker 1>the Court will presume there's no objection. So, being that

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<v Speaker 1>the monitor was introduced today by the Court, I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to offer that guidance to the parties in regards to

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<v Speaker 1>your objections. With that, let's go ahead and return to

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<v Speaker 1>the witnesses. I do note for the record that Council

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<v Speaker 1>is present and all parties are present, and let's go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and proceed. Mister Grunander. Grunander, thank you, your honor.

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<v Speaker 1>We left off Officer Bagley with just having admitted stays

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<v Speaker 1>Exhibit three point one. I believe the court also granted

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<v Speaker 1>our motion to publish three dot one, so we would

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<v Speaker 1>ask the court to publish that to the gallery. Judge Graff,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss nest or any thoughts, Kathy Nester, know, your honor,

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Graf, all right, we'll go ahead and publish Exhibit

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<v Speaker 1>three dot one. Let's go ahead and unplug and replug

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<v Speaker 1>the monitor to see if that brings it back to

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<v Speaker 1>life to display. All right, it looks like it's noticing

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<v Speaker 1>a flicker on my screen here. Grunander, minds up, Judge

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<v Speaker 1>Graph all right, all right, mister Grunander, thank you. Judge

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<v Speaker 1>Officer Bagley. So you testified that this is the screwdriver

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<v Speaker 1>as you saw on September tenth, twenty twenty five. Answer, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>question I'm going to and this was on top of

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<v Speaker 1>which roof. Answer the loc building question and in relationship

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<v Speaker 1>to the entrance to the stairway, and when you hopped

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<v Speaker 1>over the urel to get there, where was that located?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer about ten or fifteen feet in question? Okay, if

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<v Speaker 1>you could, your honor bring up states exhibit number two

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<v Speaker 1>that was previously admitted. Judge Graph, all right, Grunander, I

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<v Speaker 1>would like to have Officer Bagley come down from the

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<v Speaker 1>witness stand and point on that exhibit approximately where the

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<v Speaker 1>screwdriver was located and describe it for the record. Judge Graff,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, you may step down, and if you have

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<v Speaker 1>a microphone for him as well. I think there was

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<v Speaker 1>one up there, says Grunander. Oh, here we go. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you can describe where you saw the screwdriver point

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<v Speaker 1>to that. Answer yeah, so this is the low C

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<v Speaker 1>building right here, the like gray here is the guardrail

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<v Speaker 1>in the center of the picture with the red brick

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<v Speaker 1>just over that, about ten fifteen feet in about right there.

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<v Speaker 1>Question about right there? Okay. Now on this exhibit three

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<v Speaker 1>dot one there's an evidence tag yellow number five. Was

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<v Speaker 1>that present when you found the screwdriver? Answer? No question, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so that was left there by an evidence tech. Answer yes, question, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you. You can take your seat again. Officer. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to direct your attention to your monitor again and

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<v Speaker 1>have you look at State's exhibit three dot two and

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<v Speaker 1>if you'll let me know when you see that. Answer okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I see it. Question okay, and can you tell us

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<v Speaker 1>what it is? Answer? Yeah, that's a picture of the

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<v Speaker 1>top of the Losi Building looking west. Question okay, and

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<v Speaker 1>how do you know that that is, in fact the

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<v Speaker 1>top of the Loci Center looking west. Answer? I can

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<v Speaker 1>see the landmarks of several buildings that the Fugal building

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<v Speaker 1>is on the top. Left of it, you've got on

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<v Speaker 1>the right is a white roof, which is a Sorenson building.

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<v Speaker 1>On the right side of the picture. There's also a

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<v Speaker 1>gravel area on top of the Loci building. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>can you see the courtyard from this exhibit? Answer yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. Question what about the tent that was

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<v Speaker 1>set up that mister Kirk was underneath? Answer yes. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>what about the hall of Flags? Answer yes. Question did

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<v Speaker 1>you mention that this was facing west? What direction are

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<v Speaker 1>we looking? Answer we're looking west towards Utah Lake. Question Okay, officer,

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<v Speaker 1>is this a fair and accurate depiction of what you

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<v Speaker 1>observed on September tenth, twenty twenty five, on top the

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<v Speaker 1>Losi Building. Answer yes. Questions State offers State's exhibit three

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<v Speaker 1>point two. Judge Judge graph Miss Nestor, Kathy Nestor, your honor,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that we renew our standing objection. There is

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<v Speaker 1>an evidence tag here which begs the question that it's

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<v Speaker 1>not fair and accurate representation of how we saw it.

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<v Speaker 1>And we also don't have any indication about when this

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<v Speaker 1>picture was taken or by whom, so we object to

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<v Speaker 1>its admission. Judge graph I see Thank you, mister Grunander.

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<v Speaker 1>Question Officer one more question, Judge Officer Bagley, apart from

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<v Speaker 1>the evidence tag, do you see an evidence tag on

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<v Speaker 1>the photograph? Answer? Yes, I do. Question was at present

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<v Speaker 1>when you were on top of the Losi Center and

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<v Speaker 1>observe this answer that was not question okay? Otherwise is

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<v Speaker 1>it fairer and accurate? Answer yes, Chad Grunander. State moves

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<v Speaker 1>to admit Judge graph anything further Kathy Nestor know your honor.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge all right, thank you, given that follow up question,

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<v Speaker 1>noting that the evidence tag it appears to be number

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<v Speaker 1>two on State's exhibit three dot two, was not present,

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<v Speaker 1>but otherwise it's a fairer and accurate representation as stated

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<v Speaker 1>by the witness to State's exhibit three dot two. The

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<v Speaker 1>Court will admit it into evidence and it may be

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<v Speaker 1>published at the discretion of or at the request of Council,

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<v Speaker 1>your honor. The State would move to publish it judge graph.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, okay, folks, we're going to wrap up right here,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to pick up where we left off, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>at two hours, seventeen minutes and fifteen seconds. All the

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<v Speaker 1>information that goes with this episode can be found in

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<v Speaker 1>the description box.